We Need to Kill GNOME [Archive] - Page 2

Xyhthyx

September 17th, 2007, 04:47 PM

Tomosaur

September 17th, 2007, 05:55 PM

Having more than one computer language is too distracting and keeps proprietary software developers from writing any good code. We should all standardize on VisualBasic. Also it's a horrible waste of time and resources having developers working on both vim and emacs. vim and emacs should be merged. And what the heck is up with tcsh when we have bash available? I'm confused. I'm going to put on my tinfoil hat and go buy an Etch-a-Sketch and say to heck with all this computer junk once and for all.

I can understand what you're saying with this - but these kind of things have little to no effect on commercial developers. The differences between Gnome and KDE are such that if you design your software for one, you can risk eclusing / isolating the users of the other (yes, you can just install the correct libraries, but this is hardly ideal). There is no difference to developers if you use emacs or vim (or both).

ryno519

September 17th, 2007, 06:01 PM

I can understand what you're saying with this - but these kind of things have little to no effect on commercial developers. The differences between Gnome and KDE are such that if you design your software for one, you can risk eclusing / isolating the users of the other (yes, you can just install the correct libraries, but this is hardly ideal). There is no difference to developers if you use emacs or vim (or both).

Well, I guess commercial developers will have to either flip a coin or decide based on the licenses of either toolkit. It's not a tough decision, seeing as they will work on either platform.

Deprecating an entire development platform is hardly a good idea. Especially one that is used so commonly. Also keep in mind it's GTK+ that is being used on embedded platform. If we HAD to kill off a toolkit... why not Qt? ;)

Darkhack

September 17th, 2007, 06:08 PM

GTK+ is probably going to be most preferred by software companies (Nokia for example) because it is under the Lesser GPL (LGPL) which means that you can write proprietary software with it unlike Qt which requires you to either release it under the GPL or pay huge licensing fees. Qt is probably easier to develop for since it is basically an all-in-one library which is very well integrated where as GTK+ is just a GUI toolkit and nothing more. Nevertheless, the licensing issues will be a big enough reason to convince proprietary developers to use the less restrictive GTK+.

Tomosaur

September 17th, 2007, 06:19 PM

Well, I guess commercial developers will have to either flip a coin or decide based on the licenses of either toolkit. It's not a tough decision, seeing as they will work on either platform.

Deprecating an entire development platform is hardly a good idea. Especially one that is used so commonly. Also keep in mind it's GTK+ that is being used on embedded platform. If we HAD to kill off a toolkit... why not Qt? ;)

Tell that to commercial developers :P They'll laugh you out the door.

At the end of the day - commercial developers either simply make excuses for not wanting to develop for Linux - or they're concerned about the lack of standardisation. If Gnome was a lot more popular than KDE (or vice-versa), we wouldn't be having this discussion, the least popular would simply be killed off naturally as more software was developed for Gnome. At the moment we have two DEs which are roughly equal in terms of popularity, which have different development approaches and internal standards, and which require their own dependencies.

fjf

September 18th, 2007, 07:54 AM

Maybe I miss something here, but I use KDE apps (amarok and k3b) in gnome and they work very well. The two desktops thing seems to cause no problems from the users' point of view.

Nano Geek

September 18th, 2007, 09:48 AM

Maybe I miss something here, but I use KDE apps (amarok and k3b) in gnome and they work very well. The two desktops thing seems to cause no problems from the users' point of view.They work fine together, except that they will look different next to each other. But that's the only difference.

djseeker2007

September 18th, 2007, 06:34 PM

When I first read the blog, I thought it was written by Bill Gates. The idea is so similar to the famous letter about propriety software. Anyway, I don't want to discus about it here. And for the record, I support GNU.
I believe in diversity. It is good for development and evolution. No matter it is GNOME or KDE, a bad desktop environment won't survive long. As long as they still exit, no one has the right to kill either of them. We users are not fools. We can tell good from bad. And I have to say none of both desktop environment is perfect. And that is why both of them should exit and compete with each other.
In that blog, I can only see a propriety software developer crying out aloud for a standardized Linux desktop environment like Windows to write his propriety codes. I don't think he really cares about the development of Linux. And in this case, I have tell him shut up and f**k off.

P.S. English is not my native language, so if I made mistakes in writing, please try to understand.

dwasifar

September 22nd, 2007, 07:55 PM

I have been to the KDE side once or twice and keep coming back to Gnome.

However, I read the blog, and thought, maybe there's something in this. Maybe Linux should make some sacrifices and present a unified front. So as an experiment I loaded up KDE and played with it. Again.

It is true that Konqueror handles large directories better. And Firefox seemed to load up a little faster. But beyond that, I was still not seized by an overwhelming urge to switch to KDE. I like the way my Gnome desktop looks and feels; it's easy to resize individual icons, the fonts look better (once you apply the subpixel font rendering patches, that is), things like that. Those KDE apps that I like - K3B, Amarok, Kaffeine - I'm already using under Gnome.

More than one person has observed that Gnome is more Mac-like and KDE is more XP-like, and while these are oversimplifications, I think they have some truth. And while I know that there is something to be said for ease of migration and making people feel familiar, still if I wanted the XP experience I would have stayed with XP. :) I also know part of this is What I'm Used To, and I admit that. Perhaps someday the Linux desktop will standardize on KDE, and I'll wind up using it. But I hope not. I think we're better off having choice, otherwise it IS too much like XP.

aysiu

September 22nd, 2007, 08:27 PM

More than one person has observed that Gnome is more Mac-like and KDE is more XP-like, and while these are oversimplifications, I think they have some truth. Not really. http://ubuntucat.wordpress.com/2007/05/09/is-kde-more-windows-like-than-gnome/

dwasifar

September 25th, 2007, 12:50 AM

Not really. http://ubuntucat.wordpress.com/2007/05/09/is-kde-more-windows-like-than-gnome/
Okay, fine. You're entitled to his opinion. :)

And I'm not going to try to convince you otherwise. Not everyone agrees. But that's the general feeling I get from comparing the two desktops, and I'm not the first one to say so; and if that is a common feeling about the two, then they WILL be commonly judged on that basis by people who feel that way about them. Your mileage, as always, may vary.

nhydra

September 25th, 2007, 05:14 AM

There is a trojan horse inside of GNOME. That is C# .NET and MONO.

ukripper

September 25th, 2007, 06:12 AM

There is a trojan horse inside of GNOME. That is C# .NET and MONO.

:confused:

keyboardashtray

September 25th, 2007, 06:52 AM

My god, why don't my crazy rants garner this kind of attention?

Start by bashing the principle of free software, act like Linus Torvalds singlehandedly created and owns GNU, and throw in a crazy conspiracy theory about Miguel de Icaza.

mostwanted

September 25th, 2007, 06:52 AM

There is a trojan horse inside of GNOME. That is C# .NET and MONO.

You Novell conspiracy theorists are starting to bore me.

Andrewie

September 25th, 2007, 04:58 PM

There is a trojan horse inside of GNOME. That is C# .NET and MONO.

don't you have some where to be, this is a fud free forum

Mr. Picklesworth

September 25th, 2007, 05:13 PM

There is a trojan horse inside of GNOME. That is C# .NET and MONO.

There is a trojan horse inside of KDE. That is Qt, Trolltech and dual licensing.

They look peaceful now, but who do you think would gain the most from this?

leetrefz

October 23rd, 2007, 02:07 AM

I can see why people would use KDE, everyone's attracted to shiny things, but for the life of me I can't see the advantage of gnome over xfce. I assume no one ever tries xfce because they assume they'd be sacrificing some functionality but actually you only stand to gain in speed & free gigs. I believe Gnome & Xfce are both gtk+, xfce is as I see it simply a superior design. mud skipper vs peregrine falcon.

brokenstrides

October 23rd, 2007, 02:31 AM

I'll stop using Gnome when KDE stops being so ugly!

Nunu

October 23rd, 2007, 02:41 AM

Sorry i am coming in on the *** end of things. Why would you want to kill any of the two GUI's it just doesn't make sense to me. Stop fighting and work on inter compatibility

cytg

October 23rd, 2007, 02:42 AM

I'll have to try KDE4 (this decemeber?), but other than that i prefer Gnome.
Hate the windowsish' standard layout of KDE .. plus Gnome seems more stable .. actually, when stuff crashes in Gnome, for me, its eihter wine or an kde app.

sayuki288

October 23rd, 2007, 02:46 AM

i like using gnome

b0ng0

October 23rd, 2007, 02:51 AM

Well I first started using KDE when I was using Linux but I have to say I prefer using GNOME these days. The main reason is that I don't want to waste time wandering round loads of menus and config options in KDE to find one simple thing like changing part of a theme. I think the author needs to appreciate that for the average user who doesn't want to do too much with their computer, KDE is still (in my opinion) not user-friendly enough for the average user. I mean, you can learn how to use it relatively quickly, but in comparison GNOME is much more suited to a basic computer user who doesn't want to have to faff about with their computer, they just want to browse the internet, etc.

I understand where the author is coming from and I do think that KDE needs more pushing by distributors (canonical, etc) but at the same time I don't think it's quite ready for that yet. Maybe when KDE 4.0 comes out.

awakatanka

October 23rd, 2007, 03:59 AM

I'll stop using Gnome when KDE stops being so ugly!

Then you have to ask youre distro builder to make it less ugly, they are in charge of the looks. Stupid point like the windows lookalike bashing folks and then they make there gnome look like a mac, thats what you see in 60% of the cases in desktop screenshot topic.. They both can look as good as you want.
Well I first started using KDE when I was using Linux but I have to say I prefer using GNOME these days. The main reason is that I don't want to waste time wandering round loads of menus and config options in KDE to find one simple thing like changing part of a theme. I think the author needs to appreciate that for the average user who doesn't want to do too much with their computer, KDE is still (in my opinion) not user-friendly enough for the average user. I mean, you can learn how to use it relatively quickly, but in comparison GNOME is much more suited to a basic computer user who doesn't want to have to faff about with their computer, they just want to browse the internet, etc.

I understand where the author is coming from and I do think that KDE needs more pushing by distributors (canonical, etc) but at the same time I don't think it's quite ready for that yet. Maybe when KDE 4.0 comes out.

Those same avarage user you talk about doesn't change anything in gnome but as soon as they use KDE they want to change everything, hmm ofcourse. If they want to surf the web and chat they can do both. Those users you talk about maybe only change a background nothing more. And waisting time to edit a config file is more diffecult then waisting time with a gui tool. How diffecult is it to start a prg in gnome our kde, both the same , so what isn't user friendly about that.

b0ng0

October 23rd, 2007, 07:44 AM

awakatanka: I didn't really word my reply too well. I just think that the GNOME layout is easier to use for a non-linux user than KDE's and I just meant to use the theme changing as an example. For instance, the KDE Configuration tool for changing theme, icon, etc. is horribly confusing (even for myself, who still uses KDEMod in Arch) and poorly layed out. The actual interface for KDE is fine to navigate around, but when I have given various linux distros to friend and family (who don't know much at all about linux) who want to try it out, they always find GNOME easier to use.

Personally I prefer KDE as it seems to be more active and trying new things, but for me, too many programs randomly crash in KDE (not that it's many just a few, but that's a few too many). When KDE 4 comes out I think it will make a big difference to the number of people who use KDE.

Anessen

October 23rd, 2007, 08:06 AM

KDE and Gnome have _different purposes_. Getting rid of one in favour of the other, or combining them, is idiocy.

I use Gnome because I don't mind editing configuration files. However, I also know that KDE gives you a ton more options, and when KDE4 comes out (and becomes stable), I will quite probably switch. However, if I made the assumption that everyone thinks and works like me, that would be plain arrogant. Therefore, leave the choice in and, if there are problems, work on compatibility.

TidusBlade

October 23rd, 2007, 08:10 AM

IF you dont like one, then dont use it, I dont see the point in fighting over desktop enviorments :\

popch

October 23rd, 2007, 08:15 AM

Don't forget to burn the egg pouch.

samb0057

October 23rd, 2007, 08:16 AM

I've always liked Gnome much more than KDE. KDE seems so unorganized and thrown together, gnome is organized, clean, and simple.

fuscia

October 23rd, 2007, 08:52 AM

don't like gnome. no editable right-click menu (even jwm has one), can't scroll workspaces. i like gtk, though. i love gtk themes, but changing them to suit a wallpaper requires standing on one's head, compared to kde. this time around (been using ubuntu since breezy), i've installed kubuntu and i'm enjoying it a lot.

i don't understand how someone can say they don't like the intergration of kde, but then, use nautilus. i also don't understand how anyone can say "one task per application" and then, use nautilus. (i don't like nautilus either.)

i'm not for reducing the number of choices, nor am i for the intergration of gnome and kde. let them go their seperate ways, making two groups of people very happy, rather than mixing them together and making everyone miserable.

loell

October 23rd, 2007, 09:00 AM

i'm retracting from my previous statement about disliking mono,

now I'm starting to love it :popcorn:

bmartin

October 23rd, 2007, 09:16 AM

The author makes a good point when he states that the quality of code in KDE is far superior to that of GNOME. I find that as my software grows, I need to rewrite my code to make it more modular. High coupling leads to many problems (try a Google search for "windows rpc"). Maybe it's time for GNOME to consider v3.0.

All the people I've showed GNOME and KDE to prefer GNOME (as did I before I got used to Fluxbox). I show them each one, let them play around with the environments a bit, and tell them it's up to them. They always choose GNOME.

In other news, the NT Kernel needs a complete overhaul... and the Windows RPC functionality needs to stop being used by every other Windows service.

Vansinnesvisan

October 23rd, 2007, 09:20 AM

don't like gnome. no editable right-click menu (even jwm has one), can't scroll workspaces.....

That really annoyed me, too. GTK looks great and has nice themes - better than what KDE has to offer IMO. But Gnome lacks KDE's functionality.

I think XFCE4 is a good compromise between Gnome and KDE. Retain GTK themes and look, get right/middle click editable menus, and scroll-wheel changes workspaces. But it loses some of Gnome's intuitiveness; such as drag and dropping theme packages into the theme dialog prompt to easily install them.

Flyingjester

October 23rd, 2007, 09:28 AM

Don't know what i'd do without my gnome.. i love it to death.

Nano Geek

October 23rd, 2007, 10:05 AM

No matter which DE you like better, all this talk about killing GNOME is absurd.
You can't tell the GNOME developers that they need to stop and go work for KDE because we said so.
The majority of users use GNOME instead of KDE already so if one of them really was to go, I'd say it should be KDE.

23meg

October 23rd, 2007, 10:11 AM

We need to kill this thread.

loell

October 23rd, 2007, 10:22 AM

i second :)

Nano Geek

October 23rd, 2007, 10:38 AM

I third

popch

October 23rd, 2007, 02:13 PM

I third

go 4th

iPower

October 23rd, 2007, 03:07 PM

kill gnome and i will boycott linux

Nano Geek

October 23rd, 2007, 04:36 PM

kill gnome and i will boycott linuxThere's really no need to loose a night's sleep over it. It is absolutely impossible to kill an open-source project as long as someone is still coding for it.

Frak

October 23rd, 2007, 04:59 PM

We need to kill this thread.
People are starting to use bologna instead of real facts just for an immature, stupid argument.

5th

ukripper

October 23rd, 2007, 05:56 PM

It is just a time waste even discussing on this topic! I am shocked this thread still alive

aysiu

October 23rd, 2007, 06:15 PM

Offering no practical steps to be taken in order to "kill Gnome," this thread has just become a rehash of KDE v. Gnome arguments but with an extra-inflammatory tone because of the word kill.

There are other KDE v. Gnome threads if you want to argue back and forth. This particular incarnation has served its purpose.

Indefual

February 14th, 2008, 09:44 AM

A while back there was this one article that was making the rounds on this board. It was about how GNOME is some Microsoft conspiracy to keep conflicting standards on the Linux desktop so that it would be heard for developers to assume what will be there in terms of libraries and QT and so on.

I believe it was written by a English-as-a-second language person who was in to software design.

Does anyone know where this article is? I tried searching here, but can't find it again. I also googled the web, but I still can't find it. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you.

derjames

February 14th, 2008, 09:47 AM

Miguel de Icaza started the GNOME project. Now works for Novell

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miguel_de_Icaza

articpenguin

February 14th, 2008, 01:52 PM

Novell,Linspire,Xandros are all destroying linux because of there patent deals with M$.

aysiu

February 14th, 2008, 02:00 PM