Boycotting Novell and Gnome?

[Eddie Wilson]

Good Day All,
Ran across this article and was just wondering what everybody else thinks of it. http://boycottnovell.com/2007/08/29/gnome-mono-plan/
Thanks, Eddie

[dca]

I'm sure Miguel is just interested in a paycheck from anywhere... I can't fault him, really. Look how many developers/programmers add to the community in their spare time where their full time job is an IT admin somewhere or billing system programmer, etc... At least this way, in this capacity he can get a hefty paycheck from Novell...

[Lord Illidan]

I'm bored of all these conspiracy theories...

[Erunno]

I've skimmed through some articles on the linked side. Without going into details but I think the guy who runs the site is a nut case.

[23meg]

1) The article crosses the line between healthy, reasoned suspicion and pure conspiracy back and forth many times. There's no way to prove that De Icaza is "on Microsoft's payroll", but of course, given his enthusiasm for Microsoft technologies in general, it's the easiest thing to assert once you cross the line.

2) Mono != .NET, as opposed to how the article likes to deliberately mix up the two.

3) Mono is free software, and so is GNOME, and there's nothing wrong with free software utilizing open standards from the proprietary world, and vice versa.

4) The (reported) fact that De Icaza is supporting OOXML, beside his admiration of many other Microsoft technologies, is unfortunate. But it's his position, and GNOME != De Icaza.

5) Was GNOME eying the Microsoft API back in 1997?

I don't really care. I care about what GNOME has evolved into, and will become.

[the_darkside_986]

Many people point out Novell's dealings with MS but conveniently ignore Novell's important role in the defense of Linux against the SCO court case. I'm sure that Novell isn't going to sue Linux users since they rightfully won the Unix copyright, not just because they promise that they won't but because it would be such an idiotic PR mistake.

Just because Novell makes a deal with MS doesn't necessarily mean that they are in the hands of MS or are selling out GNU/Linux, I mean, Novell is a big company and they might have their own hidden scheme in opposition to MS's scheming.

If I boycotted Gnome, then what would I use? KDE always crashes when I use it and has sound server problems, and the other DE's are too lacking for me. I like that one DE that Damn Small Linux uses but I would only use it on my old outdated Compaq. It runs incredibly well on it but I can't figure out how to install it on the same system beside a Windows partition.

[Dragonbite]

Smells like Conspiracy Theory to me.

At one point they say It improved greatly once Icaza followed his attention defecit disorder to his next half-baked project
and in the same breath they are trying to say It was exactly 10 years ago that Miguel traveled to Microsoft and attended a job interview. This statement from Linux.com seems like news, which might confirm what some used to call “conspiracy” or “hidden agenda”.So which is it? Is he ADD (now ADHD), or has he been hatching this conspiracy plan for 10 years?

Miquel is a vocal pro-Microsoft person. . . so what? If he helps me to bridge between Windows and Linux then what's the problem with that? He also has strong political points of view (which I won't go into here). . . what does that mean? Is he also working for one of the political parties or outside influences?

Novell made a business deal with Microsoft. . . so what? Business is business and they have different needs and responsibilities than some guy with a blog. Plus, if Novell provides a means for me to bridge between Windows and Linux all the better!

I use .NET at work, and Mono at home. I suspect there are a number of people like me who either prefer or because it's what they know, Mono offers them a chance to get out of Windows without having to learn something new like Python or Java.

[karellen]

Good Day All,
Ran across this article and was just wondering what everybody else thinks of it. http://boycottnovell.com/2007/08/29/gnome-mono-plan/
Thanks, Eddie

yea, whatever

[starcraft.man]

Ummmm.... I'm not gonna stop using my GNOME desktop now. The article is a joke, between it's unfounded assumptions and it's poor presentation of arguments it barely manages to say anything.

[Eddie Wilson]

Well I wanted to see what everyone else thought. When I read the article I just got kinda confused.:confused: I thought it was just me.
Thanks, Eddie

[Eddie Wilson]

yea, whatever

yea whatever what? Don't know what that means. Do you agree or disagree?
Eddie

[kadath]

The article stinks of conspiracy theory, but that said, I'm wary of Mono and apps written in Mono. I'm especially wary about GNOME including Mono apps by default.

Mono is inextricably linked to Novell, and Novell is the one that signed a deal with the devil (MS) in exchange for IP "protection," meanwhile pushing Mono as the language that will bridge Windows and Linux in the corporate environment. And since Novell has quite a bit of influence on GNOME, this could lead to problems.

Regardless of whether Icaza and his cohorts have ulterior motives, MS most likely does.

[Sp4cedOut]

I honestly don't care about corporate politics, I just want a good operating system. I don't use SUSE but I certainly wouldn't stop just because Novell made a deal with Microsoft. I really annoys me when random Linux users expect corporations and private users to take an ideological stand with them.

EDIT: I like Linux as an operating system, but some of you people need to pull your head out of the cloud and get back to the real world.

[PryGuy]

Let's use Gnome and see what happens next. :) I do not see what Microsoft can think out against GPL so far.

[btucker]

</tin.foil.on.head>

[tbroderick]

I'm bored of all these conspiracy theories...

Look at the facts:


Fact #1: Mono
Short for mononucleosis? Is Miquel trying to give GNU/Linux a disease?

Fact #2: the letter M
Midnight Commander
GNOME
Gnumeric
Mono
Miguel de Icaza born in Mexico City

What other company shares the letter M?
Microsoft

Coincidence or conspiracy?

[karellen]

yea whatever what? Don't know what that means. Do you agree or disagree?
Eddie

honestly speaking, I really don't care

[EdThaSlayer]

I wonder what will happen, can't wait to see if this is really not a conspiracy theory. I use KDE nowadays btw. :-)

[triptoe]

IMO miguel is just a geek at heart.. and like Linus torvalds he is very pragmatic.. which means he doesn't look at microsoft as an enemy per say but just another entity that brings about some bad... and some good things... and at the root of it he likes any thing that appeals to his geeky sensibilities.

Take mono for instance.. it is the linux equivalent of .NET.. in the end.. i bet without his contributions linux might be severely hindered without a choice like mono. Rather than seeing it as some trojan horse I think it is actually very important for the survival of linux.. considering that the future is alot of .NET developers.. and .NET is simply a better technology than Java... for many people.

I emailed him a year ago attacking him and here was his response:



> Steve ballmer claims that Linux infringes on Microsoft IP. By entering a
> deal with them all you do is help to validate their claims and spread
> the FUD, hurting open source software as a whole. Novell Suse has
> contributed alot to free software but now it has taken a turn for the
> worse. The only thing Microsoft is interested in is latching on to Linux
> so they can reap monetary profits. What more proof do you need than to
> read Balmer's statements?

What follows is my personal opinion, I have been working and creating
GPL software since 1992, so that is 14 years of my life, and I feel
strongly about software patents and their damage on the industry and
free software. That being said, being on the receiving end of the
criticism for the last few weeks, a lot of it missinformed, or inflated,
let me comment *personally* on what I think the situation is.

Steve has been making all kinds of claims about Linux before; He
claimed that Linux was worthless, that it was insecure, and that it
violated patents. Its nothing new.

"Ballmer says something outrageous, News at 11".

How are his new statements any different than before?

He obviously is competing with open source, there is no doubt about that
and he will use whatever he has at his disposal, sure.

Nobody at Novell agrees with his position that Linux infringes (of
course), but within the current business rules (patents do exist, and
Microsoft might own some important ones) and today's market reality
(Linux and Windows do exist) we made a deal that would allow some of our
customers that would not touch Linux with a ten foot pole due to
Microsoft *previous* claims are now able to use it.

On the technical side, we will get some interoperability that is needed
by some customers.

All that this agreement seems to do is avoid a potentially expensive
litigation. Microsoft might or might not have valid patents, and the
only way of finding that out will be with an expensive lawsuit (see SCO,
it has dragged for years). This agreement just basically avoids this
expensive lawsuit for the customers, thats all it does. Lawsuits are
just not fun, and they are expensive.

Novell is not only one of the top contributors to open source on the
server, the desktop, and the kernel, but we were the founders of OIN,
the very same protection that is being pitched as the solution.

All the agreement did was add another layer of protection (just like the
OIN was a protection in case there was a lawsuit one day). But OIN has
one downside: it is basically a nuke, and the only way of testing it is
to use it, and it would be an expensive legal war.

Again, this is my personal opinion. Miguel de Icaza

[Lord Illidan]

Look at the facts:


Fact #1: Mono
Short for mononucleosis? Is Miquel trying to give GNU/Linux a disease?

Fact #2: the letter M
Midnight Commander
GNOME
Gnumeric
Mono
Miguel de Icaza born in Mexico City

What other company shares the letter M?
Microsoft

Coincidence or conspiracy?

Sure. Richard M. Stallman would be proud. I am now going on my merry way to ditch Amarok, Mplayer, GIMP , Mandriva,Mepis...and anything produced by Mozilla..

[Lord Illidan]

I've used C# - as a student, and it strikes me as a good language...

[Anthem]

Wow, that dude's a whack job.

The Conspiracy Theory guy, not Miguel.