What is preventing Ubuntu Linux from being the best looking distro out there?

[shuttleworthwannabe]

Hi, I have just been to an iStore here in Durban (Gateway), and I should concede the machines with OS X just look stunning. Under the hood, it all seems Unix like, and why should it not--OS X is *nix-based. The look and feel of the control panels are so much like that in GNOME/XFCE, but just more polished and intuitive. Icons have a nice shiny and glossy feel, with 3D images.

Now I am wondering why is it that, by default, Ubuntu can't get this implemented into its look and feel--I am not an eye-candy promoter, but, I feel that it surely improves the user-machine interaction.

Can some explain to me what is preventing Ubuntu artwork from implementing a stunning user-interface that is unmatched in the business? We have, in my opinion, the best distro, and user-freindly linux on the planet, with an extensive user-base; something cool for the users will surely be good to have. Kepp the brown colors, I lke that; but give us some stunning art-work by default.--something unique and enjoyable.

Common, let's do it.

Thanks

--S

[rsambuca]

Keep in mind that all of the new apple machines that you can buy running OSX are pretty decent machines. Ubuntu can run very well on older machines, and many of the 3D effects and compositing simply can not be accomplished on some older hardware. Apple has the advantage that everything is set up to their (expensive) specs. The linux world is trying to accomodate old and new, thus the default will not be completely latest and greatest.

As far as artwork goes, that is just personal preference.

[shuttleworthwannabe]

Granted, but here is a linux comparison then: I just checked out Sabayon, or even Open Suse, the artwork is stunning, right from the boot-up--for the average user (like me) this may be very important---

I also agree that linux is trying to cater for the lowest common denominator, but I feel Ubuntu, per se' with the support from canonical, could make a huge impact on making Ubuntu "more" likable over and above its already good reputation.

[rsambuca]

Like I said, artwork is entirely a subjective thing. You may like the mac style glossy bling, others may not! You are free to change the bootsplash, arwork, logos, themes...

[por100pre1]

I agree with both, In Gutsy you can change the appearance with just a click, some more polished themes can do the trick. The colors are actually good, but let's face it, the theme looks outdated. Look for example the Ubuntu Studio theme, better looking icons and gradient in the panels:


http://img154.imageshack.us/img154/411/lircgpiowq1.th.png (http://img154.imageshack.us/my.php?image=lircgpiowq1.png)

I think that with the Ubuntu human theme colors would make a better Human Theme.

[shuttleworthwannabe]

I guess what I am asking is what is preventing Ubuntu from going "glossy, and full of stunning looks" by default. If one does not wish to see the eye-candy one can always change this to minimalist theme. As a corollary, Ubuntu could give the option to change to the desired theme with just a few clicks.

[rsambuca]

I guess the only thing stopping them from using a different default theme is the Canonical developers themselves! Obviously they could if they wanted to. I also don't think it would hurt.

[EXCiD3]

Compiz Fusion will be enabled by default in Gutsy if your hardware will support it but it might be a brown theme too ;)

[rsambuca]

Maybe Mark just likes brown!

[FuturePilot]

I like the Human theme. It's all personal preferences. And that's the nice thing about Linux. You can make it look however you want it to look.

[shuttleworthwannabe]

Give the hUman theme, some gloss, some "bling-bling" as they say. Glassy icons, smoother curves.

I just saw that gutsy will have compiz-fusion installed by default---this is a step in the right direction imo.

Boot screen, login screen and a stunning wallpaper (first images that catch the eye)---I think this is one way of making the user feel confident that he is on a polished system, that will just work...and ubuntu functionally just works--on most machines.

[por100pre1]

Give the hUman theme, some gloss, some "bling-bling" as they say. Glassy icons, smoother curves.

I just saw that gutsy will have compiz-fusion installed by default---this is a step in the right direction imo.

Boot screen, login screen and a stunning wallpaper (first images that catch the eye)---I think this is one way of making the user feel confident that he is on a polished system, that will just work...and ubuntu functionally just works--on most machines.

I couldn't say better. :)

[FuturePilot]

I just saw that gutsy will have compiz-fusion installed by default---this is a step in the right direction imo.

If you have a graphics card that can handle it.

[rsambuca]

Although it certainly is contrary to ubuntu's stated philosophy of open-source software!

[vexorian]

Matter of opinion. Most distros got "wannabe look" that imitates other things, I like the initial theme, it could be improved and all but it is not bad.

Regarding apple's theme I just hope ubuntu never becomes into an imitation of it, it is not that awesome anyways...

And please, let's not ruin the human icon theme, it is already the best artwork released by canonical,seeing it going ruin to imitate other sets would make me sad.

[vexorian]

I guess what I am asking is what is preventing Ubuntu from going "glossy, and full of stunning looks" by default. If one does not wish to see the eye-candy one can always change this to minimalist theme. As a corollary, Ubuntu could give the option to change to the desired theme with just a few clicks.
It works the opposite way as well, if you want what you think a "glossy and stunning" is it is already just a few clicks away.

[rand0m]

Yes, it should be the opposite. Not everyone's hardware can handle eye candy. It's not very hard to make ubuntu look better but I guess it could always be easier for new users. What about for example, something incorporated in the installer to choose the default theme (polished vs. plain)? Anyways, I actually prefer the default ubuntu theme to sabayon's. Besides, I personally don't think a "good" looking distro equates to a functional/stable/polished os. This is coming from someone who's ubuntu looks exactly like osx leopard w/ nearly all the compiz fusion effects turned on...

[shuttleworthwannabe]

The point being, that user has a choice, or an intuitive OS that can understand the system specs and suggest a an OS "theme": shinny and glossy all turned on, or default to minimalistic. Let the user also decide what he want, but let it be there for her to choose from, rather than sittign and hacking away so that it imitates another OS that is shinny and glossy; Let us have our own shinny, unique and glossy artwork than stands miles apart from other OS--the Ubuntu way.

that's all I am asking...

[mrazster]

Since Ubuntu (and every other linux-dist. for that matter) is about freedom and chooises... why not give us the chooise during installation, put a little dialog box somewhere and ask if one wants the default themeing or a more polished themeing...and/or have the ability to easily change the look/feel of ubutnu from deafult(low performance) to glossy/shiny (hig performance) from the menu.

Now having that said, I'm not afraid of customizing and doing everything by my self. I mostly compile my apps from source...I even customize my installation procedure with kernel compiling e.t.c.
But I know there are a lot of users out there that would love simpler ways of being able change themes and such.

[hessiess]

Yes, it should be the opposite. Not everyone's hardware can handle eye candy. It's not very hard to make ubuntu look better but I guess it could always be easier for new users. What about for example, something incorporated in the installer to choose the default theme (polished vs. plain)? Anyways, I actually prefer the default ubuntu theme to sabayon's. Besides, I personally don't think a "good" looking distro equates to a functional/stable/polished os. This is coming from someone who's ubuntu looks exactly like osx leopard w/ nearly all the compiz fusion effects turned on...

and not everyone likes eye candy ether

[shuttleworthwannabe]

and not everyone likes eye candy ether

just bec not everyone likes eye-candy, does not mean the option/choice should not be available.--this argument is weak.

[rsambuca]

In the end, SOMETHING has to be installed, and you are not going to please everyone. We get it that you like the glossy look. The developers don't.

[rand0m]

A choice in the installer seems the way to go?

[rsambuca]

A choice would be great, I agree. The installation cd is pretty full as it is, though.

[Paul820]

Yes, and no doubt it will be getting much bigger in future release with all the new features they are putting in. *drools* :)

These ideas about having better themes on install will never end because it isn't up to us, it's up to the developers. If they don't include nicer themes then there is nothing we can do about it. We have to use what we are given and change it ourselves. Me, i don't really care, as like many others, the first thing i do is change the theme. It's the same when i used windows, the first thing i did was get rid of that ugly blue theme. :)

[rsambuca]

I know, complaining about the appearance is pointless, because everyone has a different preference. I prefer brunettes myself, but some of my friends prefer blondes.

[Enriquecaribe]

I think Ubuntu does a great job of "keeping it real". yea, so mac has glossy icons... oh well, if you want mac, get mac. The theme for any *nix can be customized. Linux is the most customizable os out there, so you can always change what you dont like.

[Yizi]

The looks ok but i think they should make things (in general) smaller.
Personally i like it smaller because i have a better control over the screen. :)

[shuttleworthwannabe]

I think we are missing the point here;

1. About developers: I guess they do not read these forum threads, but is they do, then it is a direct plea to them. Is there a place to make this more official--communicate directly with the artwork dev people?
2. About themes preinstalled: non-of them have a quick and easy way to changing to the glossy, shiny skin, theme
3. As for getting a Mac, that is like admitting defeat. I like Mac OS X for its roots in *nix, and nothing else; the eye candy, IMO an example of what can be achieved in a *nix environment---hence, my question.
4. If dev are the ones to decide what the OS should look like, then users like you and me are basically not necessary. Giving users the default choices of themes or asking them to hack the system to make it look good (and then have stability problems thereafter) is a pretty lame.
5. As user, I can only contribute by making my opinion heard; if I could code and write programs, I would contribute in that way.

[rsambuca]

Keep posting in the development thread!

EDIT: Here is the link (http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=238), although it is probably too late for Gutsy.

[por100pre1]

Theres already a discussion in this thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=460882).

[wersdaluv]

Hi, I have just been to an iStore here in Durban (Gateway), and I should concede the machines with OS X just look stunning. Under the hood, it all seems Unix like, and why should it not--OS X is *nix-based. The look and feel of the control panels are so much like that in GNOME/XFCE, but just more polished and intuitive. Icons have a nice shiny and glossy feel, with 3D images.

Now I am wondering why is it that, by default, Ubuntu can't get this implemented into its look and feel--I am not an eye-candy promoter, but, I feel that it surely improves the user-machine interaction.

Can some explain to me what is preventing Ubuntu artwork from implementing a stunning user-interface that is unmatched in the business? We have, in my opinion, the best distro, and user-freindly linux on the planet, with an extensive user-base; something cool for the users will surely be good to have. Kepp the brown colors, I lke that; but give us some stunning art-work by default.--something unique and enjoyable.

Common, let's do it.

Thanks

--S

What you stated made sense to me.

I think, the reason behind this is the fact that Apple has been around for a while and its GUI has been developed for quite some time with a group of people with good paychecks and fine tastes.

[por100pre1]

Keep posting in the development thread!

EDIT: Here is the link (http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=238), although it is probably too late for Gutsy.

The final deadline for Gutsy art proposals is Sept. 20, I think. Maybe it is NOT too late... ;)

[bashologist]

nvm, misread thread title... was posting too quickly.

[por100pre1]

Firefox crashing randomly for almost everyone if not everyone.

Not everyone; no problems here with Firefox... :-s

[shuttleworthwannabe]

Theres already a discussion in this thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=460882).

Thanks, for linking it up.

I like the post where the poster talks about "donating blood" for this cause!

Can we start a voting process/poll here to get an idea what the users think...?? Is here a thread on this already?

[rsambuca]

Firefox crashing randomly for almost everyone if not everyone.

Not sure how this is relevant to this thread, especially since it is also not true.

[fatbuttlarry]

Ubuntu did amazing with the 7.04 human theme.

Its a clean, yet elegant compromise between personal and professional interfacing.

Comparing to OSX is difficult, because OSX development seems to focus so much on appearance, that they lose the timelessness of a great built GUI.

When I use windows, I turn off the visual enhancements to get better performance, and I'd like to be able to do the same with Ubuntu.

Installation can be a long process, so its probably better to leave that to post-installation to change.

I think the key elements Ubuntu is missing stems from the gtk kit. I notice with Pidgin, for example, the icons agreed on by the team don't appear in the application because they are default to the window environment, and can't easily be changed. (Look at the "Buddies >> Add Buddy" and "Buddies >> Quit" menu items).

Although Fedora Core 7 is blue, its hardly different from the surface, and the login screen is far from stunning (look at the un-refined white border). Login screens should be simplified for home users, but kept classic enough for company users. Ubuntu gives two great options for this. Fedora's looks like a desktop gadget, which makes it bulky and misleading.

Furthermore, Ubuntu has proven more community oriented, and is growing in businesses like wild fire. If you can't credit the Human theme for at least part of that, I think you're kidding yourself.

So my question for shuttleworth is, what areas do you feel the disto lacks in for "best looking". I feel it lacks most in the older non-tango icons, and some of the new tango icons (such as console icon) need to be illustrated better to keep from looking like a performance graph. : )



-FBL

[por100pre1]

Thanks, for linking it up.

I like the post where the poster talks about "donating blood" for this cause!

:lolflag:
I just saw it (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=3283841&postcount=63) now, very funny.

Can we start a voting process/poll here to get an idea what the users think...?? Is here a thread on this already?

I'm not sure. Why don't you start a poll about this? Be sure to include the opinions posted as voting options. :)

[wireddad]

Definitely agree that if Ubuntu is more flashy from boot; it would be easier to WOW others to at least attempt the OS. Most are afraid of the word free too--as far as getting support goes.

Macs are gorgeous.

[Thinker-Philosopher]

My answer to your question: a user-friendly way for one to create and mod their own themes. If this was streamlined to be so easy that a noob like me could do then Ubuntu would become the best looking OS, hands-down. This is because anyone could easily customize it to their taste (keyword: easily).

Ubuntu is mostly easy to customize right now, there are still a few things that make it the ultimate customization OS. However, it could be more comprehensive. Basically, someone needs to make an easy-to-use application for the creation of their own personal theme for any windows decorator (Emerald, GTK, etc.) without having to download an external theme from somewhere. For example, I should be able to move the min/max/close buttons to the left instead of right, or but the titlebar of a window on the bottom, or create a roll-up button, or change the hue of the window borders, or change the rounded corners on the window to square, et cetera, et cetera. I should be able to do any of this in no more than a few clicks. Basically, make it so the end-user can customize any visual part of the OS that they want with minimal effort, yet make it powerful enough so people can be really creative with it.

Side Note: Current examples of decent but not noob/user-friendly themeing applications would be Stylebuilder and SkinStudio from Windows. And yes, I am very much into uber-customizing and tweaking my computer (like they do at customize.org).

Anyways, this is probably irrelevent but I wanted to add some ideas that I have.

[trim17]

My answer to your question: a user-friendly way for one to create and mod their own themes. If this was streamlined to be so easy that a noob like me could do then Ubuntu would become the best looking OS, hands-down. This is because anyone could easily customize it to their taste (keyword: easily).


I totally agree with you here. Yes, Ubuntu is incredibly customizable, but it's not very easy to do. I'd love a graphicaltool to be able to tweak and change my themes easily. That way, you could strike a balance between the super customizers, people with performance needs or more muted tastes, and people who just like to be able to pick a pretty theme from a list.

[shuttleworthwannabe]

Amen!

[rsambuca]

I totally agree with you here. Yes, Ubuntu is incredibly customizable, but it's not very easy to do. I'd love a graphicaltool to be able to tweak and change my themes easily. That way, you could strike a balance between the super customizers, people with performance needs or more muted tastes, and people who just like to be able to pick a pretty theme from a list.
We already have that. It is under System -> Preferences -> Theme.

[gdubbus]

I think a more basic default (human) is a smarter approach for now, Ubuntu is a great way to make older hardware perform better than it could have on Windows, but if this old hardware would be faced with demands it couldn't meet upon its very first boot than Ubuntu loses much of its efficency and might as well be Vista, we dont all have duel-cores or a gig of ram, besides, its certainly not difficult to scale up once you've installed if you do have the hardware.

[Thinker-Philosopher]

We already have that. It is under System -> Preferences -> Theme.

Now if only it was that easy to create your own themes.

[peterson2k4]

everyone is saying how Ubuntu is built to run on old machines but, come on! does everyone have to suffer the 20th century feel of Human simply because some people still have a computer that was origionaly running windows 98?

I understand that Ubuntu wants to cater to this small group but, how about making the new distros have more eye candy while supporting the older versions without that glam.on a similar note I wish that the built in apps all had a more uniform look to them like OS X and (to a lesser extent) Vista.

[por100pre1]

I totally agree with you here. Yes, Ubuntu is incredibly customizable, but it's not very easy to do. I'd love a graphicaltool to be able to tweak and change my themes easily. That way, you could strike a balance between the super customizers, people with performance needs or more muted tastes, and people who just like to be able to pick a pretty theme from a list.

Theres already one in Ubuntu, and Gutsy has an improved version of it.

[CitroenC4]

Now I understand that Linux users like to be able to customise everything. Sure its great that if a user does not like the look of the default Ubuntu they can tweek it in limitless ways. BUT this is not the problem, in order to get the attention of a larger market it needs to look great. Most people could not care less abouts whats under the hood. It a bit like trying to sell a car, sure it could have the best technology but 99% of people are not going to buy it because they will judge it by its looks.

I think giving Ubuntu a high quality look should be a very high priority!!! I have read alot of people around these forums saying 'Oh but design is such a subjective thing and its a very personal thing'. Thats all well and good but if it were to stick to current graphic design trends (and I don't mean it should copy what others have done) but stick to whats 'in' with graphic design at the moment. Fedora did not copy what others have done, but have something that has a look that is very much 'in' !

The next thing is this argument people are using saying it has to run on older hardware. I for one am all for this and as such am not proposing the system have lots of resource hungry stuff to make it look great, but careful choice of colours and simple effects would really add to it. Again I guess a bit like what Fedora did on Core 7.

Like alot of people I think the Animal wallpapers should have been used in Gusty Gibon, and changing the colour of the human theme to match the warmer shades of say the Lion wallpaper. People would look at that and say WOW- which is the first step to getting them interested in this system. How many people do you know who bought a Mac on their looks alone!?

[yorkie]

If Desktops and Laptops in stores had Ubuntu installed and on display I think there would be better theme/artwork as default.but until that day comes theres no need to compete with MS OR Apple.
Anyway did`nt anyone tell you "never judge a book by its cover"

[simohell]

Well, basically I would say that Ubuntu is already the best (or at least equal to anything else), although I did change the theme to Industrial Tango... I'm not really missing anything.

To be good looking means to me that you can sit using it from 9am to 5pm and afterwards on your free time as well for 2+ years and not think about needing to find a better looking theme.

And the desktop is not eating up too much resources from the actual software you need for your work. (for image processing there is always need everything you can get)

[Carlitus]

Ubuntu is a great distro, maybe the best for "first time Linux users"; also for "no-problem Linux install" desktop users... as me. It installs with few clicks, and almost no user-intervention, and it installs very well and almost never crashes... it's a dream for desktop users.

The Ubuntu's desktop is simplistic, and it runs very well. Everybody can find fast how to change the graphics.

The problem isn't the graphics itself. The deffault graphics are the same for antique hardware or full nvidied/compized. It only changes the use of compositing effects, and ability to use composite software. We can use the same icons/wallpaper/gdm/login graphics for both hardware.

The problem is the style of Ubuntu. User's like:

- Use of primary colors (vivid colors). This dosn't mean to be all "blue". White or pure black are appreciated.

- Non-squared icons. I mean use of curves, perspectives. Tango/Human icons are beautiful, but they look very classic for 2007.

Imho, there's other design concepts to change:

- GTK human theme looks very classic. It must be more clean, use more contrast of colors.

- Window border human theme. as gtk theme, excessively classic.

- Change the brown, please. I know it's like a "distro identification" as green for Opensuse. But brown isn't the prefered color. This color abstracted, dosn't mean "human" itself. More "human" colors are red, white black, and it's derivatives. A perfect human color can be orange.

- Please, stop using "abstract" designs for wallpaper (alla mac os x, with shiny curves under a clear blue/brown/green). I don't know wich will be the best option for Ubuntu, but there's manny better options: an african landscape, the classical earth viewed from moon, minimallistic with ubuntu logo.

[k99goran]

I may be a minority, but I have never really liked the OS-X look. I know that in certain circles criticizing Apple's taste in design is tantamount to blasphemy, but I think it looks cold.

On the Ubuntu side:

More gloss. More reflective effects.
Make buttons and other things a bit smaller, sometimes it feels as if I'm running in a reduced resolution.
Keep the brown.
Use an overall softer color scheme.
Avoid orange.

[peterson2k4]

On the Ubuntu side:

More gloss. More reflective effects.
Make buttons and other things a bit smaller, sometimes it feels as if I'm running in a reduced resolution.
Keep the brown.
Use an overall softer color scheme.
Avoid orange.


I agree with everything except I would ditch brown an embrace orange...or green but not as a window theme. I think a sharp silver would look nice. but, not a brushed metal look. I never liked that on OS X. (if that is what you are thinking makes it look cold I agree with you 110%)

[CitroenC4]

I like most of the ideas people have put foward. I would like to see the orange go in favor of say a warmer brown (again along the shade of colour as used in the Lion wallpaper submited for Gusty) and get rid of the grey colour for the windows. People often make coments about how they don't like Apples brushed look, I was always a fan. Now their computers have used alot of anodized aluminium for the cases they have changed the look of their GUI to match. The point I am trying to make is, it that what is fashionable in interior design often has a similar trend in graphic design (hence OSX using brushed aluminium). Ubuntu Studios website has the feel I am talking about, we need that feel with the warmer colours that people assosiate with Ubuntu. Even without Ubuntu being on display for people when they look at screenshots they need to be able to see this really high quality modern look which will make the more likely to give it a go. Its human nature to judge a book by its covers and that is why we need to make this cover a visually rich one! Feature wise I love Ubuntu, its getting easier and easier to use and the development team is making steps in the right direction there. Why not have say 10 submisions of different desktop themes for the next release and set up a vote with the most popular winning and being used (of course it would have to fit into certain critera)?