Time for a different distro

[Rhapsody]

I've been using Kubuntu for over a year now, and while it is certainly a great distro (I plan to install regular Ubuntu on another system) it's not the one for me.

The release cycles may be quicker than with Debian, but the whole release cycle thing is beginning to grate on me. I want to go faster. Hence, I've come to conclusion that I want a distro with a rolling release (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rolling_release) system. Here are the main three I'm looking at:

Arch Linux (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arch_Linux)

Simple, fast, inspired by CRUX. I've heard of some people not liking this, but it seems pretty good to me.

CRUX (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CRUX)

How could I look at Arch without looking at this too? Similar to the above, but it's been around a bit longer.

Gentoo Linux (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentoo_Linux)

Most well-known but, somewhat strangely, also the most recent of the three. A large userbase is a good advantage, I can afford the time to compile stuff, and it'd certainly be an adventure.

So, any thoughts? This one's going to be a big commitment, and I'm hoping to get at least one heart-in-mouth moment from it.

[jrusso2]

See you when you return.

[insane_alien]

i would try arch first. then gentoo then CRUX.

its not as if they cost hundreds of <insert symbol of local currency here *3>.

i've never managed to install any of them.

arch appears to install but doesn't boot
gentoo failed somwhere during compilation
and CRUX, i'm not even sure what happened with CRUX it was in a sort of semi installed semi bootable stage. the install failed but it booted to a command line but no commands were available. went into kernel panic after 127 seconds exactly, every time.

[wolfen69]

ive heard good things about arch, even though it wouldnt boot for me either. didnt care for gentoo's package management. never used crux. good luck!

[Seti]

take a break from linux altogether and try out OpenBSD.

[rsambuca]

I've just installed gentoo on another partition and it went without any problems. The Gentoo Guide is very well written, and you just follow the procedure from step to step.

I followed the guide and installed gentoo from within my running ubuntu set-up, so you don't have to worry about any computer downtime. During the long compilations at the beginning, you just do it from a chroot environment from your existing setup, and you still can use your machine. Perfect!

It was much, much easier than I was expecting, and I am by no means a linux guru. I started last September with ubuntu. I now have ubuntu 64-bit, debian - sid, gentoo, sabayon, ubuntu 32-bit (although I haven't even touched this one), XP, and Vista.

I have been using ubuntu as my main OS, but since it is new, I have been using gentoo quite a bit.

[DreamcastJack]

I'm thinking about switching from Kubuntu from PCLOS, although I do love PCLOS, I dont really like rpm that much, but PCLOS is very nice. and I figure it'll be easier to keep Ubuntu on my lappy and Kubuntu on my PC up to date. that way I can update at the same time pretty much. its a harder decision than one would figure. and I dont duel-boot cause I see no point in it, unless its Windows/Linux..

[ynnhoj]

arch is incredibly simple to install, and not at all difficult to configure either. of the three choices you've given, i'd take arch easily (then again, i'm an arch user already -- there's a bias). i've had mostly bad experiences with gentoo, though it was probably my fault/stupidity in each case :)

if you have a go at an arch system, just remember: the wiki is really helpful. as is the installation guide. and if you can't find the documentation you need in either of those places, the forums are good too.

[wolfen69]

yeah, i was thinking about printing out the installation guide and giving it(arch) a go. i probably will soon. i have an extra 160gb drive that i use for testing. wish me luck.

[kadath]

See you when you return.

It bugs the hell out of me when people respond with crap like this. Is it so totally unbelievable that someone might actually like a distro other than Ubuntu? And even like it more? Ubuntu isn't the be-all and end-all of Linux distros.

To the OP, I say try out Arch. A lot of people are very happy with it. It's good if you like learning about Linux and computers in general.

Stay away from Gentoo :-#

[Bachstelze]

Stay away from Gentoo :-#

It bugs the hell out of me when people respond with crap like this. Is it so totally unbelievable that someone might actually like Gentoo ? And even like it more than any other distro ?

[kadath]

It bugs the hell out of me when people respond with crap like this. Is it so totally unbelievable that someone might actually like Gentoo ? And even like it more than any other distro ?

I totally saw that coming... Anyway, the OP asked for opinions, and that's just my opinion on Gentoo.

The problem with the 2nd post is that it has a tone of "All distros that aren't Ubuntu are made of large amounts of FAIL. We'll be here when you come crawling back."

[Tux Aubrey]

It bugs the hell out of me when black holes enter peaceful galaxies and destroy whole planets. Oh, and zombies. They really get my back up too. And people who take babies on airplanes. I hate that.

But on the topic of Linux distros....

I know that Arch and Gentoo have derivatives that come pre-packaged - ie March and Sabayon (the same goes for Slackware and Zenwalk) - are these newbie-friendly derivatives a valid way of trying out the different flavors of Linux without jumping in the deep end? I know I've had no trouble instally March, Sabayon or Zenwalk.

[igknighted]

It bugs the hell out of me when black holes enter peaceful galaxies and destroy whole planets. Oh, and zombies. They really get my back up too. And people who take babies on airplanes. I hate that.

But on the topic of Linux distros....

I know that Arch and Gentoo have derivatives that come pre-packaged - ie March and Sabayon (the same goes for Slackware and Zenwalk) - are these newbie-friendly derivatives a valid way of trying out the different flavors of Linux without jumping in the deep end? I know I've had no trouble instally March, Sabayon or Zenwalk.

The problem with Sabayon is that the OP wants a rolling release upgrade. Sabayon, while using the Gentoo repo's, pretty much requires you to download the DVD every time. Theres no good way to upgrade a Sabayon system with its complicated overlays. Individual apps you can do, but if you want Gentoo then you are better off going with the real deal.

[rsambuca]

I totally saw that coming... Anyway, the OP asked for opinions, and that's just my opinion on Gentoo.

Opinions are fine, but with such a strong statement like that you should follow it up with at least a few REASONS.

[DreamcastJack]

well, I switched to Kubuntu overnight and I just didnt like it. so today I reinstalled PCLOS. its a much better Distro imho. figured I'd like Kubuntu considering I Love Ubuntu..but nope. but, hey it never hurts to try something new.

[pain of salvation]

Try Arch!

I was an Ubuntu user, but switched to Arch... now its my ultimate distro.

Arch is not difficult to use. You can easily install it, just read the arch wiki's installation guide and begginers guide.

After installation and configuration, Arch is MUCH easier than Ubuntu to maintain. Also, its very fast and stable.

Arch is as fast as gentoo, but you won't need to spend your time with compiling everythig.
CRUX is more difficult...

[Rhapsody]

Arch seems to be leading at the moment, Gentoo is taking second place, and CRUX has fallen way behind.

I'm tempted by Arch, but what are the advantages of Gentoo? There must be something, or otherwise it wouldn't still be around after five years.

[mthei]

Yeah, I've been looking into Arch for the last few months, and of the three options, it seems like the best (I gave up on Gentoo before I had the chance to really do any damage to my install, but at the time i needed a working desktop as well, so went with Ubuntu, and Gentoo took to long with update). What's nice about Arch is that it really does look like it's easy to maitain (a simple command that will upgrade everything, not unlike Debian) and from what I've heard, the only pain is the initial installation (it may be big, but print out the install guide before hand).
Re: the March liveCD, to the best of my knowledge, there is no option to install it onto your hard-drive, and same goes for Larch. The only Arch liveCD that I know of that has an installation option is Archie (http://archie.dotsrc.org/).

[pain of salvation]

I think the biggest advantage of gentoo is that it compiles everything, and everythig fits to your system.

But, for me, that is not a advantage. I tried Gentoo and Arch, and Gentoo is not faster than Arch in any way. Also you will spend a lot of time maintaining and installing things.

With Arch, if you want everything compiled, just use ABS. But I prefer using Pacman, and my sistem is as fast as it was with gentoo.

Arch installation guide for begginers: http://www.raiden.net/?cat=&aid=276

[rexy]

i've run gentoo for years and even ran linuxfromscratch for awhile

But now i only run ubuntu and follow the 6 month cycle. The only real reason for that is Time.

Gentoo offers the bleeding edge and generally is fairly stable, but getting stuff to work requires effort, and time, and some knowledge when stuff fails. While this used to be fine for me, i just dont have the time to track down the problems when stuff fails.

Also i dont have to leave my computer on overnight to crap out that new kde version. But if you want the latest and greatest and you are not to worried about stuff breaking every now and then you should definitly try gentoo, dunno about the other two.

edit: I'll admit i'm contemplating installing a base system with just X, opengl and nvidia drivers to see if i can get some more perfomance out of cedega/wine, but i'd never go back to using it as a permanent workstation system.

[igknighted]

I run Gentoo on an old pc (p3) at work because I could just let it compile and go home for the weekend. When I came back on monday it was done. The system is light years faster than Ubuntu/Mint/Fedora were on the same box.

The thing with Gentoo is compiling is made dead simple. I simply set my use flags/march settings and then typed "emerge kde-meta". It did the rest. The repositories are enormous in Gentoo, right there with Debian's. If I want something, I am almost guaranteed it is there.

All in all, you can't go wrong with either. I like Gentoo's toolkit (Genkernel, portage, etc.) better than arch's (ABS, pacman), but it is personal preference. I don't mind compiling, if waiting for compiles bothers you then certainly thats a factor, but if you have the time then I'd recommend Gentoo.

[pain of salvation]

The problem is not the compiling, the problem is that if you compile everything on gentoo, you will get the same speed of Arch without compiling things, just using pacman. If there is any difference in speed, its not perceivable at all.

So I prefer using pacman -S nameoftheprogram and have the program installed in a few minutes than go to sleep and have the program installed an hour later.

I think that's why a LOT of arch users are ex-gentoo users.

[Bachstelze]

The problem is not the compiling, the problem is that if you compile everything on gentoo, you will get the same speed of Arch without compiling things, just using pacman. If there is any difference in speed, its not perceivable at all.

Speed it not everything. Precompled packages are not as scalable as custom-compiled stuff. By that, I mean that when you compile a piece of software from source, you can keep the parts of it you don't need out, which results in lighter programs and thus lower RAM and disk usage, not to mention a much cleaner system.

[pelle.k]

Be careful with the flames people.
If you like to tweak and compile stuff to the max, then gentoo is for you.
If you like to get rid of the downsides of poor GUI interfaces and automation, then arch is for you. (there are of course automation in arch, but selective and rather elegant).
If you just want to point and click, have everythihng installed by default, stay with ubuntu or try another kitchen-sink++ distro.

My vote goes for arch, IF you are prepared to learn how GNU/linux really works. After a while you may come to appreciate how simple everything _can_ be.
The downside (IMHO of course) is that a "rolling release" distro is a moving target and thus it _can_ break, but in it's defence - did you remeber when that update broke Xorg on dapper (or was it edgy?), and that is supposed to be "stable". :)

[pain of salvation]

Speed it not everything. Precompled packages are not as scalable as custom-compiled stuff. By that, I mean that when you compile a piece of software from source, you can keep the parts of it you don't need out, which results in lighter programs and thus lower RAM and disk usage, not to mention a much cleaner system.

For these cases you can use ABS...

[miggols99]

I've never tried Gentoo because it takes so long to compile stuff (I've heard it takes a weekend or something!)...never tried Crux either. I recommend Arch. If you like KDE, you'll love KDEmod, which is a split packaged KDE with lots of fixes and patches added to make it look better. The configuration files are really easy to understand, probably much easier than Ubuntu/Debian, and you also have control over what starts up (modules and daemons) and what you want to install. You can also compile everything with Arch, but if you want to do that, I would try Gentoo.

[wolfger]

So, any thoughts? This one's going to be a big commitment, and I'm hoping to get at least one heart-in-mouth moment from it.
I've never tried Arch or Crux, but I loved Gentoo for years, and though it went downhill, there's a new surge from the awesome Gentoo community to set things right.
I recommend you try Gentoo, but NOT the GUI installer. (I had one extremely bad experience with that), and keep your system updating only to "stable". The install will be time consuming, but you will never need to install a new version again, and updating the entire system is a piece of cake. Gentoo forums is awesome, and so is the community that makes it all work.
:guitar:

[Laplace's Daemon]

I followed the guide and installed gentoo from within my running ubuntu set-up, so you don't have to worry about any computer downtime. During the long compilations at the beginning, you just do it from a chroot environment from your existing setup, and you still can use your machine. Perfect!
If you don't mind, could you explain how to do this? I'm interested in installing Gentoo to try it out and learn a bit more about Linux in general, but I would like to avoid having lots of computer downtime if possible.

[rsambuca]

If you don't mind, could you explain how to do this? I'm interested in installing Gentoo to try it out and learn a bit more about Linux in general, but I would like to avoid having lots of computer downtime if possible.

It was actually quite a bit easier than I was expecting. The basic steps are as follows:

1. Partition your Hard Drive(s). I have set mine up with five logical partitions for different distros, along with a swap partition. This way I can play around with different distros whenever I want without touching my main distro. I happened to use gParted for the partitioning and have never had any problems - of course, BACKUP your data prior to partitioning just in case.

2. download the gentoo stage 3 tarball for your cpu architecture.

3. Use a terminal from ubuntu to chroot into your new partition. "chroot" is a method of changing the root directory of your running processes. All you have to do is type in a few lines and you are set!

4. Then just keep following the guide for installation instructions. The guide is very well written and easy to follow along. You can either just blindlessly cut and paste the commands into the terminal, or you can look things up as you go to try and understand it as you move along. Your choice. The only really confusing part for me was the USE flags, which actually set how programs are compiled on your system. As I found out later, you can easily change them and recompile stuff later, so don't worry about getting them perfect the first time around. I would recommend starting with the default Desktop setup, and then do any obvious additions/deletions to your USE flags from there, and then if you find out you missed something, you can change it later and simply recompile.

The guide is found here (http://www.gentoo.org/doc/en/altinstall.xml#doc_chap5)

[Antman]

Re: the March liveCD, to the best of my knowledge, there is no option to install it onto your hard-drive, and same goes for Larch. The only Arch liveCD that I know of that has an installation option is Archie (http://archie.dotsrc.org/).

I just used archie to painlessly (lazyily) install Arch on my laptop.:guitar:
now I: pacman -Syu to update the whole system... nice....