Why are people using 32bit Ubuntu?

[Tux0r]

Just a question, why do you guys think people are using 32bit Ubuntu on their 64bit hardware?
I don't get it! :(

[aysiu]

Read this thread:
How many people actually take advantage of their 64bit processor? (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=403064)

[stmiller]

Good question.

[Kilz]

Just a question, why do you guys think people are using 32bit Ubuntu on their 64bit hardware?
I don't get it! :(

1. They believe the FUD that is all over the forums (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2412895&postcount=11).
2. They think that some application isnt available in the 64bit version (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2419817&postcount=26) (but we all know 99.5% are available)
3. They think its to hard to setup (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2426659&postcount=43) (Because of horror stories from someone who ran Breezy)
4. They dont know how to find the sticky post in the 64bit section. (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2431173&postcount=60)
5. There is a search on the forums? Here I thought ***** problem couldnt be fixed, (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2412633&postcount=2) WWho knew there were 19576956723 posts on it.)
6. People are lazy (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2412838&postcount=8).
7. What do you expect from recent Windows converts? (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2423887&postcount=30)
8. They are waiting for "Drivers" (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2423936&postcount=31) (But how do they know they are not available if they dont install the 64bit version?)
9. They dont believe there is any performance improvement (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2424632&postcount=33). (It takes all kinds)
10. They are waiting on something. (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2426438&postcount=40) (but dont know exactly what they are waiting on as they never have tried the 64bit version themselves)

Read this thread:
How many people actually take advantage of their 64bit processor? (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=403064)

Thanks for the link to the poll that shows twice as many people with 64bit hardware dont run a 64bit os. The developers dont think there is something wrong with this picture? O thats right, the developers dont question anything, and seclude themselves as far away from users as they possibly can.
Am I the only one who thinks that is sad beyond belief?

[GFree678]

There's no 64-bit flash for example, and Wine doesn't run in 64-bit (all AFAIK). I hear there's a fiddly way to do it, but I don't see much gain to compensate for the extra work involved.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and last time I tried 64-bit Ubuntu, I couldn't run Quake 4 without copying over the 32-bit SDL libs since it wouldn't recognize the 64-bit ones. It was almost pure luck I found out about this. It's hard enough to move to Linux, such problems are enough to drive someone back.

[Kilz]

There's no 64-bit flash for example, and Wine doesn't run in 64-bit (all AFAIK). I hear there's a fiddly way to do it, but I don't see much gain to compensate for the extra work involved.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and last time I tried 64-bit Ubuntu, I couldn't run Quake 4 without copying over the 32-bit SDL libs since it wouldn't recognize the 64-bit ones. It was almost pure luck I found out about this. It's hard enough to move to Linux, such problems are enough to drive someone back.


Reasons 2, 3, 4, 5, and possible 7.
When was that, Warty? 32bit SDL, What about the ia32-libs-sdl package? Please edit out the obvious lies about Flash (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=476924) and Wine (http://www.winehq.org/site/download-deb), I provide links to wines .deb file and the 30 second flash install..

[wieman01]

2. They think that some application isnt available in the 64bit version (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2419817&postcount=26) (but we all know 99.5% are available)
If that is so, why is there a separate 64-bit sub-forum? It must be there for a reason if 64-bit is such a breeze.

[Kilz]

If that is so, why is there a separate 64-bit sub-forum? It must be there for a reason if 64-bit is such a breeze.

To have some place that 64bit users dont have to read a constant stream of lies and FUD from people running the 32bit version who think they know something they have no knowlage of. You know those people who think they are helping others by repeating the information that was true about Warty.

[wieman01]

To have some place that 64bit users dont have to read a constant stream of lies and FUD from people running the 32bit version who think they know something they have no knowlage of. You know those people who think they are helping others by repeating the information that was true about Warty.
Haha... Fair enough. Confusing nevertheless. I'll make the switch in a couple of months and put your statement to the test. :-)

[GFree678]

You seem to feel pretty strongly about this issue Kilz... enough to call things "lies" when they're probably just related to innocent misinformation rather than malicious intent. Why so passionate?

[Kilz]

You seem to feel pretty strongly about this issue Kilz... enough to call things "lies" when they're probably just misinformation rather than malicious intent. Why so passionate?

Please take note of my post count. 99.9% of them were made in the 64bit section, on 64bit howto's, or shooting down 64bit fud. I know what Im talking about.
It stopped being misinformation long ago. Those that think they know something , but dont, and dont update their knowledge are a problem. They affect a lot of new users who may read it. Misinformation is just a nice way of saying lie.

[GFree678]

That's... a hell of a lot of postings just for 64-bit material.

Guess I have some research to do then. Ta. :)

[misfitpierce]

Actually to tell you the truth a lot of ppl dont have 64 bit processors annd dont really need on unix :) lol. Also 32 bit is convenient for alot of ppl. I myself use both 32 bit and 64 bit and support both versions highly. I believe the move torwards 64 bit should be made by those who have it so we can escalate the advancment torwards 64 bit. :)

[wieman01]

Please take note of my post count. 99.9% of them were made in the 64bit section, on 64bit howto's, or shooting down 64bit fud. I know what Im talking about.
It stopped being misinformation long ago. Those that think they know something , but dont, and dont update their knowledge are a problem. They affect a lot of new users who may read it. Misinformation is just a nice way of saying lie.
That accounts for 99.9% of the on-line content... the 64-bit section isn't an exception if you ask me. So I guess one ought to take it with a pinch of salt if you know what I mean. 99% of my post count comes from the wireless section... same issue there.

[Tux0r]

There's no 64-bit flash for example, and Wine doesn't run in 64-bit (all AFAIK). I hear there's a fiddly way to do it, but I don't see much gain to compensate for the extra work involved.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and last time I tried 64-bit Ubuntu, I couldn't run Quake 4 without copying over the 32-bit SDL libs since it wouldn't recognize the 64-bit ones. It was almost pure luck I found out about this. It's hard enough to move to Linux, such problems are enough to drive someone back.
1. Get Kilz script
2. 64bit debs available of WINE
3. Works (Played 5 minutes ago)

[GFree678]

1. Get Kilz script
2. 64bit debs available of WINE
3. Works (Played 5 minutes ago)
Unfortunately you missed the first step...

0. Give enough of a damn to wipe a perfectly-working system.

Cannot satisfy step 0, hence, fail. :)

[afonic]

Actually everything works great here. I just made a clean installation of Feisty AMD64 (as my old installation was 32bit updated to Feisty all the way from 5.04).

Installing Flash and Java was pretty easy following some tutorials (meaning installing it in 64bit Firefox - you can also have the 32bit one) and almost 99% of the software available in the 386 repo is here. Codecs are installed in same same easy way with that new handy tool.

Drivers where installed in 2 secs using the restricted drivers tool (very nice as well). Wine works fine, as well as Cedega and Guild wars. :)

My point is that all users with an 64bit CPU should use Ubuntu AMD64. The performance gain is pretty huge especially when multitasking or using video / audio encoding apps (I use them a lot). Even boot is much faster.

The vast majority of the new PCs are 64bit if everyone could use the AMD64 version we could get to a point when even the few annoyances will disappear.

[Tux0r]

64bit is much better than 32bit it's good for the future of hardware development to use it!

[Tux0r]

GFree678: 64bit performance is enough to do that.

[Jouke74]

I am running 64bit because I have to, some of my programs eat loads of RAM (Merlin, Qtdt, Genehunter). 32 bit windows could not handle these sometimes (> 2Gb limit). Until now I have really no issues with 64 bit, but I am not surfing the video-web much. I am flashless on Ubuntu. Also, I don't have Wine installed. I run 32 bit Windows and 64 bit Ubuntu dual boot and use IMHO the best program for each task I need to do (if that is under windows, so be it).

I like this forum because the people whom are reading / posting here are usually a bit more tweaking their systems (something I like doing) and generally don't start complaining when they need to bring up a terminal to sudo :)

Drivers can be an issue. It took me some time to find a good working 64 bit driver for my wireless card. I can imagine that in some cases this problem cannot be solved (except with buying new hardware).

[Kilz]

I am running 64bit because I have to, some of my programs eat loads of RAM (Merlin, Qtdt, Genehunter). 32 bit windows could not handle these sometimes (> 2Gb limit). Until now I have really no issues with 64 bit, but I am not surfing the video-web much. I am flashless on Ubuntu. Also, I don't have Wine installed. I run 32 bit Windows and 64 bit Ubuntu dual boot and use IMHO the best program for each task I need to do (if that is under windows, so be it).

I suggest either reading this topic from beginning to end, or reading the sticky posts in the 64bit section. Both of these issues are simple to have running .

[amazingtaters]

So, here's why I installed 32 bit Ubuntu on my laptop with a 64bit processor. My 64bit version download stalled, my 32bit didn't so I forged ahead with what was most expedient. Pure lazyness is really what it boiled down to.

[Steve1961]

Mmm... I tried the 64 bit version of Ubuntu back when Hoary was released and decided to go the 32 bit route ever since. Maybe it's time to change when Gutsy gets released.

So my question to you Kilz is this: Is there any real downside these days to running 64 bit Ubuntu - e.g. lack of applications??

[Kilz]

So, here's why I installed 32 bit Ubuntu on my laptop with a 64bit processor. My 64bit version download stalled, my 32bit didn't so I forged ahead with what was most expedient. Pure lazyness is really what it boiled down to.

Of course you filed a bug report on launchpad, right? So the problem could be fixed, right? You didnt just leave it so others would run intio the same brick wall, right?

[Kilz]

Mmm... I tried the 64 bit version of Ubuntu back when Hoary was released and decided to go the 32 bit route ever since. Maybe it's time to change when Gutsy gets released.

So my question to you Kilz is this: Is there any real downside these days to running 64 bit Ubuntu - e.g. lack of applications??

There are upsides and downsides of every version of Ubuntu. Packages missing isnt one of the 64bit problems. Launchpad lists a less than 1% difference in the total available packages between the 2. This can be accounted for by packages not needed for the hardware and packages that merged.
Can there be some ancient package no one uses missing , sure , but anything the average user of 32bit uses is available in 64bit. Secondly Hoary couldn't run 32bit packages, you needed a chroot to do it. It is possible to run 32bit applications since Dapper. Not that you will need to, but there may be some ancient package you want to run that no one else dose. In that case it is possible to force it in.

[tgm4883]

Of course you filed a bug report on launchpad, right? So the problem could be fixed, right? You didnt just leave it so others would run intio the same brick wall, right?

Actually his problem didn't sound like it needed a bug report. He said his download stalled, so he should probably file a bug report with his ISP.

To some of the other posters, yes, i've seen it and the misinformation has gone way past innocent and is much more on the side of malicious. It's terrible what some people believe that is just plain wrong. It's even worse when you correct these people and explain why they are wrong and they continue to spread the lies. Thats why it is malicious.

[Steve1961]

There are upsides and downsides of every version of Ubuntu. Packages missing isnt one of the 64bit problems. Launchpad lists a less than 1% difference in the total available packages between the 2. This can be accounted for by packages not needed for the hardware and packages that merged.
Can there be some ancient package no one uses missing , sure , but anything the average user of 32bit uses is available in 64bit. Secondly Hoary couldn't run 32bit packages, you needed a chroot to do it. It is possible to run 32bit applications since Dapper. Not that you will need to, but there may be some ancient package you want to run that no one else dose. In that case it is possible to force it in.

Thanks Kilz, yep, I remember all that messing about with a chroot. But sounds like things have improved since then, so when Gutsy is released I'll definitely go down the 64 bit route again.

[amazingtaters]

Actually his problem didn't sound like it needed a bug report. He said his download stalled, so he should probably file a bug report with his ISP.


Yup. Good ol AT&T DSL, aka terribleness. I think I'm gonna try 64 when gutsy comes out. Is it easy to upgrade from 32bit to 64bit between versions, or will I hafta do the whole backup everything deal and reinstall totally?

[tgm4883]

Yup. Good ol AT&T DSL, aka terribleness. I think I'm gonna try 64 when gutsy comes out. Is it easy to upgrade from 32bit to 64bit between versions, or will I hafta do the whole backup everything deal and reinstall totally?

Backup and reinstall. AFAIK, There is no known way to upgrade from 32-bit to 64-bit

[Leon945]

Hey Kilz
I posted about a week ago about getting a new computer with a AMD64 processor..
It turns out im getting it this thursday! :)

I'm confident almost anything can be done equally in 64 bit ubuntu...
Although I do use Skype, and i did a quick google search on Skype for Ubuntu 64-bit, and there seems to be alot of "confusion".. not really working, or working only sometimes...

Hopefully i'll be able to get some help from you and this forum...
You'll hear from me again soon! ...tomorrow apparently... HEHE

[Jouke74]

I suggest either reading this topic from beginning to end, or reading the sticky posts in the 64bit section. Both of these issues are simple to have running .

Uhmmm. I know how to install them, and I did read the forum from the beginning. But I don't need and use wine and flash. So why install them? You understood my post wrong. It was not my intention to say that I cannot handle the installs. Don't jump to conclusions to quicky.

[stmiller]

And 64bit Linux can execute any 32bit code. Most distros like Ubuntu provide a 32bit compatibility layer so you can run any Linux program.

This was the same when Windows 95 came out. It had a built in compatibility layer to execute 16bit code.

It's the natural progression that computers are going. Everything will be 64bit, we are just in a transition.

Windows 3.1 [16bit] (1992) > Windows 95-XP/Vista/Linux32 (1997-) [32bit] > Win64/Linux64 available (2003- desktop home 64bit computers becoming widely available) [64bit] > (???) [128bit]

Wikipedia has a good article on 64bit for some pros and cons: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/64-bit

[JAPrufrock]

I think that the main reason is that it use to be significantly easier to install 32 bit Ubuntu than 64 bit Ubuntu. However, since Feisty was released, that is no longer the case. Nowadays it isn't a whole lot harder to install 64 bit Ubuntu than 32 bit, and there are speed advantages that far outweigh any inconveniences.

[steveneddy]

I'm waiting for better support, better application coverage and better stability.

And I may be way off base on all of these, but really all I do is surf, look at spread sheets and laugh at videos. Maybe a little mail every once in a while, but nothing I need 64 bit for yet.

[Kilz]

I'm waiting for better support, better application coverage and better stability.

And I may be way off base on all of these, but really all I do is surf, look at spread sheets and laugh at videos. Maybe a little mail every once in a while, but nothing I need 64 bit for yet.


Exactly what was the last 64bit version of Ubuntu you installed and used?

[starcannon]

I've just now switched back to 32 bit, just to much of a pain in the **** to deal with 32 bit compatibility, and just when you think you have everything ironed out and working, something stupid happens.

I would love to take advantage of my 64 bit hardware, but at the moment its just too much of a hobbiest novelty and not enough of the "it just works" and at the end of the day I'd rather get my stuff done instead of just screwing around trying to make something work.

So, until the software I use most is 64bit and the need to install 32 bit libraries to get it "kinda working" is gone I'll just keep using 32bit Ubuntu on my 64bit cpu :(


Apps I use frequently and how they worked out for me in 64bit *pita==pain in the @55*:

Firefox with all the normal plugins (pita)
Cedega for World of Warcraft (pita and buggy)
Thunderbird (can't remember if any issues)
Open Office (writer and spreadsheet worked fine)
Nvu (never got it going the way I wanted)
The Gimp (basic user so worked for me)
Mplayer with mozilla plugins (pita)
win*codecs (kinda worked)

[John.Michael.Kane]

I've just now switched back to 32 bit, just to much of a pain in the **** to deal with 32 bit compatibility, and just when you think you have everything ironed out and working, something stupid happens.

I would love to take advantage of my 64 bit hardware, but at the moment its just too much of a hobbiest novelty and not enough of the "it just works" and at the end of the day I'd rather get my stuff done instead of just screwing around trying to make something work.

So, until the software I use most is 64bit and the need to install 32 bit libraries to get it "kinda working" is gone I'll just keep using 32bit Ubuntu on my 64bit cpu :(

You mind telling us what software you use the most that is not available for 64bit Or can't be installed under 64bit?

There's a lot of blanket statements made about 64bit not being ready/etc,however. no one ever lists why it's not ready,what programs they are having trouble installing,what exactly the issue is/was under 64bit.

Also the notion that 32bit is the be all end all for installs is not always true neither. Many users have a hard time getting certain things to work under 32bit as well.

The bottom line is that no matter what version of ubuntu is used there will eventually be something that will be a pain to get working, and will require the user to find a fix or file a bug report. This holds true for almost all other distro's as well.

In the end there's no easy version of anything.

[DARKGuy]

Interesting thread indeed.

I have a Pentium 4 3.2Ghz with HT EM64T (with this I suppose it's a 64-bit processor), or so the box says I have it right here. Anyways that's a stupid statement made by someone who actually works as a hardware/software tech support guy.

ANYWAYS taking that out of the topic. I haven't gone to 64-bit for some reasons I really hope Kilz can answer, clarify and proof to me before I go 64-bit. I'd love to, but uncertainty holds me back. Been reading the whole thread and hey, take a break seriously :/ it's like, "hey I can't do X in 64-bit *HEADSHOT* you can! >.<"... geeze o_o; everyone has their reasons, I don't think they deserve to be answered like that... :/

So yeah, my reasons and thoughts are the following ones...

1. Wine? does it work 100% as it does with 32-bit? you know I download almost any app I can find for Windows and try it out (Notepad++, UltraISO, LCISO Creator, WinRAR, anything)... same for games (Silkroad, CS 1.6 / Source, Driver & Driver 2, Diablo II, World of Warcraft... new and old games).
2. Beryl? Compiz?.
3. I've heard lots of flash problems... good to know they're getting solved.
4. What about devices? CD/DVD burners?.
5. Video/audio codecs? (I play from .XMs to .MP3, xVID, DivX 4, Matroska, OGG Theora, DVD movies...).
6. Quake 4? Doom 3? UT2004?
7. Dual monitor support? (Xinerama extension?)
8. Drivers? for example D-Link DWL-G122 Rev. B1, Trident 4Mb PCI card, NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200 128Mb AGP8X, NVIDIA Riva TNT2 64Mb Model 64, Kode 1Gb USB stick, BenQ DC1300 digital camera, X-Box Controller, PSX Controller through parallel port, D-Link DSB-C110 webcam, Biostar P4M800-Pro motherboard, Encore ENM232-4C sound card, Realtek 8139 network card, Samsung CD/DVD RW?...
9. Programs crash? what about usability? any difference with 32-bit and 64-bit program versions? can I have both versions on 64-bit in case the 64-bit version hangs or crashes, I can use the 32-bit version?

This, of course, without having to use complicated stuff such as fakeroot, bootstrap, rebooting into X kernel for doing X thing, compiling from source (oh man I so hate doing that... thanks godness developers are nice and release .debs for us :D)... specially drivers for devices I can't buy by myself.

Another thing, answers like "buy X hardware", "save up money", "throw away that stone-age video card", "go google then come back", etc. Won't work, simply because if I did I wouldn't be asking here, would I? I'm a bit touchy with this topic, and I guess it's also the reason why some people haven't changed yet: It works without whining in 32-bit.

However, if you (or anybody else) answer me and clarify my doubts and give me some proof of it, I'll make the move for sure :D :D

[Kilz]

I've just now switched back to 32 bit, just to much of a pain in the **** to deal with 32 bit compatibility, and just when you think you have everything ironed out and working, something stupid happens.

I would love to take advantage of my 64 bit hardware, but at the moment its just too much of a hobbiest novelty and not enough of the "it just works" and at the end of the day I'd rather get my stuff done instead of just screwing around trying to make something work.

So, until the software I use most is 64bit and the need to install 32 bit libraries to get it "kinda working" is gone I'll just keep using 32bit Ubuntu on my 64bit cpu :(

Please share with us exactly what version of 64bit Ubuntu you removed, and what applications you needed that you had to add libraries for.

[Kilz]

Interesting thread indeed.

I have a Pentium 4 3.2Ghz with HT EM64T (with this I suppose it's a 64-bit processor), or so the box says I have it right here. Anyways that's a stupid statement made by someone who actually works as a hardware/software tech support guy.

ANYWAYS taking that out of the topic. I haven't gone to 64-bit for some reasons I really hope Kilz can answer, clarify and proof to me before I go 64-bit. I'd love to, but uncertainty holds me back. Been reading the whole thread and hey, take a break seriously :/ it's like, "hey I can't do X in 64-bit *HEADSHOT* you can! >.<"... geeze o_o; everyone has their reasons, I don't think they deserve to be answered like that... :/

So yeah, my reasons and thoughts are the following ones...

1. Wine? does it work 100% as it does with 32-bit? you know I download almost any app I can find for Windows and try it out (Notepad++, UltraISO, LCISO Creator, WinRAR, anything)... same for games (Silkroad, CS 1.6 / Source, Driver & Driver 2, Diablo II, World of Warcraft... new and old games).
2. Beryl? Compiz?.
3. I've heard lots of flash problems... good to know they're getting solved.
4. What about devices? CD/DVD burners?.
5. Video/audio codecs? (I play from .XMs to .MP3, xVID, DivX 4, Matroska, OGG Theora, DVD movies...).
6. Quake 4? Doom 3? UT2004?
7. Dual monitor support? (Xinerama extension?)
8. Drivers? for example D-Link DWL-G122 Rev. B1, Trident 4Mb PCI card, NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200 128Mb AGP8X, NVIDIA Riva TNT2 64Mb Model 64, Kode 1Gb USB stick, BenQ DC1300 digital camera, X-Box Controller, PSX Controller through parallel port, D-Link DSB-C110 webcam, Biostar P4M800-Pro motherboard, Encore ENM232-4C sound card, Realtek 8139 network card, Samsung CD/DVD RW?...
9. Programs crash? what about usability? any difference with 32-bit and 64-bit program versions? can I have both versions on 64-bit in case the 64-bit version hangs or crashes, I can use the 32-bit version?

This, of course, without having to use complicated stuff such as fakeroot, bootstrap, rebooting into X kernel for doing X thing, compiling from source (oh man I so hate doing that... thanks godness developers are nice and release .debs for us :D)... specially drivers for devices I can't buy by myself.

Another thing, answers like "buy X hardware", "save up money", "throw away that stone-age video card", "go google then come back", etc. Won't work, simply because if I did I wouldn't be asking here, would I? I'm a bit touchy with this topic, and I guess it's also the reason why some people haven't changed yet: It works without whining in 32-bit.

However, if you (or anybody else) answer me and clarify my doubts and give me some proof of it, I'll make the move for sure :D :D


Do you really expect other users (me, Im just a user) to really look up all that? You want proof? :roll:
Im a bit touchy about people who cant even look at sticky posts, or cant search a forum and expect others to answer questions that have been answered over and over. ](*,)
Your "just works" with 32bit is a lie.:^o Thousands of problems with 32bit posts are made in the 32bit sections of these forums by people without a clue.

1. Wine installs from a deb file in 64bit Feisty.. This has been pointed out over and over. Even in this very thread. (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=3192255&postcount=6) Are you asking me is all those Windows games will install and run without problems? That doesnt even happen on 32bit.
2. Beryl and Compiz can give people fits in 32bit land (http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=223). You can install them in 64bit.
3. Glad to know you read about Flash.
4. Come on, this isnt 64bit windows, drivers for CD burners? Do you really think the 64bit version has problems with dc drives when you have to burn new versions of Ubuntu?
5. What about them? Yes they exist. Do you notice any posts on missing codecs? Or were you just trying to recycle some ancient fud?
6. Installing games that have linux binaries isnt that hard. You might have to install a file or 2. Same as you would on, you guessed it, 32bit.
7. Do you know there is a Ubuntu package site (http://packages.ubuntu.com/)? That you can use to find out if packages are in the repos. Just like this one, that is in the 64bit repos.
8. Look them up yourself. I am not going to waste my time doing a hardware search for you. But get real, nvidia makes 64bit drivers.
9. Crashing? Not me but these 32bit people have that
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=526951&highlight=crash
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=315236&highlight=crash
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=525352&highlight=crash
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=526565&highlight=crash
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=526843&highlight=crash
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=421929&highlight=crash

If you think that the 32bit version is perfect and doesn't suffer from the problems you listed, think again. If you think you can post some long list and someone is going to do waste a few hours researching something you cant be bothered to look up yourself, think again. [-(
Personally at this point everyone who wants to believe that the 32bit version is perfect , can keep running it. I am not going to hold your hand and do the homework for you, do you think I get paid for it ? You can do it yourself. If you choose to stick with 32bit because you are to LAZY or SCARED to look up information or try the 64bit version. Have a grand old time. :lolflag:
After all I have a fast, stable, working 64bit install , no 32bit partitions or Windows. I think I will help the people willing to at least try the 64bit version and leave the self admitted lazy people run the slow version.

[DARKGuy]

Do you really expect other users (me, Im just a user) to really look up all that? You want proof?
Im a bit touchy about people who cant even look at sticky posts, or cant search a forum and expect others to answer questions that have been answered over and over.

You're contradicting yourself then, no offense. Yes I could do that, read stickies and research, but then my post would lose the point. And then again, who reads stickies anyways? Let's be frank, almost nobody. I know that from experience, been modding a forum since 2003 and it's a known fact in almost everywhere in internet. I'm just asking in the method of how a common nowadays user who comes from a Windows world would ask. (yes, it's not my style but I'm trying to give some reasons for staying on-topic). My intentions are not to argue or to have a flame around here.

Your "just works" with 32bit is a lie.Thousands of problems with 32bit posts are made in the 32bit sections of these forums by people without a clue.

That also gives you the point that 64-bit isn't perfect either, considering 32bit has thousands of problems as you say.

1. Wine installs from a deb file in 64bit Feisty.. This has been pointed out over and over. Even in this very thread. (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=3192255&postcount=6) Are you asking me is all those Windows games will install and run without problems? That doesnt even happen on 32bit.
Driver works, Diablo II does (with MapHack and Battle.net), WoW does, Silkroad too... :P. Programs? Notepad++ works without flaws, same for LCISO Creator, WinRAR, Ares, uTorrent...
2. Beryl and Compiz can give people fits in 32bit land (http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=223). You can install them in 64bit.
I haven't had any problems. Good to know it works in 64-bit ^^.
3. Glad to know you read about Flash.
:) so, do I read or not?
4. Come on, this isnt 64bit windows, drivers for CD burners? Do you really think the 64bit version has problems with dc drives when you have to burn new versions of Ubuntu?
Huh, good news then. You see, 64-bit archs are something relatively new from me, and internet and the streets are full of everything, I'm not up to know if devices work as good as they do in 32-bit (most of them). They're different kernels too.
5. What about them? Yes they exist. Do you notice any posts on missing codecs? Or were you just trying to recycle some ancient fud?
Eh, you could say same as above... I still (have to) use Windows at work - it's contagious ;).
6. Installing games that have linux binaries isnt that hard. You might have to install a file or 2. Same as you would on, you guessed it, 32bit.
Wrong. Only games installed with WINE that use Safedisc protection need a No-CD patch. Binary games work without anything else - run the installer and play, Windows-style (how it should be). UT2004 doesn't need anything else, same for Q4, Doom 3 and Q3A (which can be run through Loki's installer or even through WINE)... oh, UT:GOTY works better in WINE rather than with its native version - does the native one work in 64-bit?... (see, more confusion)
7. Do you know there is a Ubuntu package site (http://packages.ubuntu.com/)? That you can use to find out if packages are in the repos. Just like this one, that is in the 64bit repos.
Yes I know about it. Great isn't it? Good to know it works, another reason to think more about making the change ^^;
8. Look them up yourself. I am not going to waste my time doing a hardware search for you. But get real, nvidia makes 64bit drivers.
:lolflag: I figured you wouldn't - but see all the weird hardware one can try out? it's hard to make a change once you have a working 32-bit system and want to improve, and that is due to the insecurity and uncertainty if the hardware that (maybe) took you a lot of time (days? weeks?) to make it work will require the same time (maybe less, maybe double (!)) when going 64-bit. And yes, NVIDIA rocks.
9. Crashing? Not me but these 32bit people have that
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=526951&highlight=crash
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=315236&highlight=crash
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=525352&highlight=crash
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=526565&highlight=crash
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=526843&highlight=crash
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=421929&highlight=crash
Nice selection of links. However...

First: Program bug, not related to the kernel or the OS itself. It could happily crash on your 64-bit machine. I haven't had a thunderbird crash in Ubuntu yet it crashes sometimes in Windows at work. Go figure.
Second: Mostly everyone knows Ubuntu (or Linux itself) doesn't really gets along with Laptops (special hardware). That's why I don't have it in mine yet :P
Third: That's a common photoshop error in WINE. It could do pretty the same thing in your 64-bit machine. It's up to the WINE developers to fix that.
Fourth one: I can't say much about this one, never used Steam but looking forward to.
Fifth: Everyone knows ATI sucks for Linux :P (or, personally, I think that way... they rock in Windows though, if the drivers and the card are both good).
Sixth: This one is mixed, but then again... ATI.

Nice try, but most of them are application errors - something the Ubuntu developers can't fix. There isn't a lot of 64-bit developers for most apps/games, so that makes it hard sometimes - another reason to bring uncertainty to the topic.

If you think that the 32bit version is perfect and doesn't suffer from the problems you listed, think again. If you think you can post some long list and someone is going to do waste a few hours researching something you cant be bothered to look up yourself, think again. [-(
Personally at this point everyone who wants to believe that the 32bit version is perfect , can keep running it. I am not going to hold your hand and do the homework for you, do you think I get paid for it ? You can do it yourself. If you choose to stick with 32bit because you are to LAZY or SCARED to look up information or try the 64bit version. Have a grand old time. :lolflag:

I'm not saying it's perfect, but neither is 64-bit. About the research... it depends on your mood and your personality. I have done that for other people more than twice. I'm not lazy nor scared, just feel unsafe and with a huge confusion cloud above my head because it's something relatively new.

After all I have a fast, stable, working 64bit install , no 32bit partitions or Windows. I think I will help the people willing to at least try the 64bit version and leave the self admitted lazy people run the slow version.

Well, good for you :popcorn: I have to keep Windows for the reason Linux kinda sucks for playing new games with all the features (Most Wanted runs but with untextured blocks, it has errors if you enable sound and weird stuff (GF4 Ti 4200, nVIDIA 9639). Does that happen in 64-bit too?...) and because I program stuff for work and they use Windows there.

Also I think I stated in my previous post that I was willing to make the move to 64-bit - sorry if I wasn't very clear.

By the way and just kidding, ever heard the saying that goes "slowly but surely"? ;)

[Spr0k3t]

I'd like to say that many tried to sway me from installing 64bit and sticking with 32bit architecture. I'm glad I went with my instinct. There are very few problems I've run into which didn't have an existing solution or work around. I mean really... who cares if the Java plugin doesn't work, applets are a bad excuse of Java programming. I've got Eclipse, and I can build Java apps and web apps without any problems. Outside of that, I've not had any problems running 64bit.

[gweaver]

I use 32bit Ubuntu because Ubuntuzilla didn't install Thunderbird 2 properly on 64 bit, and because I couldn't find a 64bit package for DVBCut.

I couldn't be bothered with jumping through hoops just to get these two applications working, and I figured I would probably have problems with other stuff too.

Theres a few other minor things I couldn't find 64bit packages for as well. Mostly obscure stuff relating to MP3 audio. I have Debian i386 packages for these, but I think Ubuntu AMD64 packages are still a way off...

If I only used software from the Ubuntu repo's I'd probably be happy with 64bit.

[afonic]

You can probably compile DVBCut from source and it should work in 64bit Ubuntu.

[Leon945]

I'd like to say that many tried to sway me from installing 64bit and sticking with 32bit architecture. I'm glad I went with my instinct. There are very few problems I've run into which didn't have an existing solution or work around. I mean really... who cares if the Java plugin doesn't work, applets are a bad excuse of Java programming. I've got Eclipse, and I can build Java apps and web apps without any problems. Outside of that, I've not had any problems running 64bit.

Thats just lame...
It's like when the Playstation 3 came out without the "rumble" feature.. The hardcore fans would say:" Rumble is so 90's ANYWAY who the hell wants to feel FEEDBACK on the controller? its just nasty!"

But hey, i want the full experience, i want java, i want flash, i want skype....

i'm going to install 64 bit on my new pc today, but i can't use any of the software i used before... than i'm probably gonna switch back to 32.

[gweaver]

You can probably compile DVBCut from source and it should work in 64bit Ubuntu.

Yes I probably could, if I spent some time and got some help from the mailing lists. But to be frank I can't be bothered. I found a .deb for 32bit and it works very nicely.

Thats not to say that I wouldn't rather be using 64bit packages, but I chose 32bit packages over compiling from source because life is too short. Basically, I value my time over CPU time.

The problem as I see it is that developers give higher priority to compiling code for 32bit, because 32bit has a larger installed base. And 32bit has a larger installed base because developers give it higher priority. Its a chicken and egg thing, but I hope that soon there will be a water-shed when the 64bit installed base is high enough that developers will give priority to 64bit.

I admire the determination of everyone who perseveres with compiling the source code for 64bit, you are the ones who are driving up the 64bit installed base so we can reach that watershed.

[nanotube]

I use 32bit Ubuntu because Ubuntuzilla didn't install Thunderbird 2 properly on 64 bit, and because I couldn't find a 64bit package for DVBCut.


out of curiosity, what happened with ubuntuzilla on your 64bit system? what exactly went wrong?

[gweaver]

out of curiosity, what happened with ubuntuzilla on your 64bit system? what exactly went wrong?

I think it appeared to install ok, but didn't launch. Don't quote me on that, but i think thats what happened. Rather than investigate further I tried a few other things like DVBCut, and then gave up and installed 32bit Ubuntu.

Sorry not to be more helpful.

If the latest Mozilla apps and a few other tools were in the repos or available as 64bit .debs I'd be using 64bit Ubuntu. Perhaps we need a thread called "Which apps turned you away from using 64bit Ubuntu?" instead of "Why are people using 32bit Ubuntu?".

If a list of the most common apps that are a problem for people on 64bit was compiled then maybe development could be focused on those so that 64bit becomes a viable option for more people. I'm sure an easily installable Thunderbird 2.0 would be at or near the top of the list, and that alone would swing a few percent more people towards 64bit.

Of course, we'll have Thunderbird 2 in Gutsy 64bit, but will we have Firefox 3???

[Kilz]

Yes I probably could, if I spent some time and got some help from the mailing lists. But to be frank I can't be bothered. I found a .deb for 32bit and it works very nicely.

Thats not to say that I wouldn't rather be using 64bit packages, but I chose 32bit packages over compiling from source because life is too short. Basically, I value my time over CPU time.

The problem as I see it is that developers give higher priority to compiling code for 32bit, because 32bit has a larger installed base. And 32bit has a larger installed base because developers give it higher priority. Its a chicken and egg thing, but I hope that soon there will be a water-shed when the 64bit installed base is high enough that developers will give priority to 64bit.

I admire the determination of everyone who perseveres with compiling the source code for 64bit, you are the ones who are driving up the 64bit installed base so we can reach that watershed.

You have never compiled a 32bit application? Do you think other 32bit users have never had to compile an application? Its just lazy to say you are not going to run the 64bit version because of 1 or 2 program compiles. Its one of the benefits of linux, that you are able to compile applications. IMHO if you just want a click click install. Dont even install the 32bit version, stick with Windows.



If the latest Mozilla apps and a few other tools were in the repos or available as 64bit .debs I'd be using 64bit Ubuntu. Perhaps we need a thread called "Which apps turned you away from using 64bit Ubuntu?" instead of "Why are people using 32bit Ubuntu?".

If a list of the most common apps that are a problem for people on 64bit was compiled then maybe development could be focused on those so that 64bit becomes a viable option for more people. I'm sure an easily installable Thunderbird 2.0 would be at or near the top of the list, and that alone would swing a few percent more people towards 64bit.

Of course, we'll have Thunderbird 2 in Gutsy 64bit, but will we have Firefox 3???

It will be a short post, or if it gets big it will be me or someone else linking to pages where the applications exist. A lot of the time people dont know what application they want. They dont know what application may be missing. They are just repeating the mindless FUD that something is missing. Because almost all the "its missing application" posts never tell you what application , the poster disapears when asked to identify one.

[John.Michael.Kane]

I think it appeared to install ok, but didn't launch. Don't quote me on that, but i think thats what happened. Rather than investigate further I tried a few other things like DVBCut, and then gave up and installed 32bit Ubuntu.

Sorry not to be more helpful.

If the latest Mozilla apps and a few other tools were in the repos or available as 64bit .debs I'd be using 64bit Ubuntu. Perhaps we need a thread called "Which apps turned you away from using 64bit Ubuntu?" instead of "Why are people using 32bit Ubuntu?".

If a list of the most common apps that are a problem for people on 64bit was compiled then maybe development could be focused on those so that 64bit becomes a viable option for more people. I'm sure an easily installable Thunderbird 2.0 would be at or near the top of the list, and that alone would swing a few percent more people towards 64bit.

Of course, we'll have Thunderbird 2 in Gutsy 64bit, but will we have Firefox 3???
Thunderbird2.0 is fully installable under ubuntu 64bit right now.
Thunderbird 2 feisty backport (http://ubuntu.iuculano.it/dists/feisty/thunderbird/)

As for a list of the most common apps that are a problem for people on 64bit. It would be minimal at best, As most of the applications either have source available so the user can compile her own, debs made so the user can gdebi them.

The only issue that would arise in the case of listing programs, Is with the case of proprietary in which case their issue is not with linux/ubuntu/64bit but the proprietary software maker.

[tgm4883]

Yes I probably could, if I spent some time and got some help from the mailing lists. But to be frank I can't be bothered. I found a .deb for 32bit and it works very nicely.

Thats not to say that I wouldn't rather be using 64bit packages, but I chose 32bit packages over compiling from source because life is too short. Basically, I value my time over CPU time.

The problem as I see it is that developers give higher priority to compiling code for 32bit, because 32bit has a larger installed base. And 32bit has a larger installed base because developers give it higher priority. Its a chicken and egg thing, but I hope that soon there will be a water-shed when the 64bit installed base is high enough that developers will give priority to 64bit.

I admire the determination of everyone who perseveres with compiling the source code for 64bit, you are the ones who are driving up the 64bit installed base so we can reach that watershed.

Actually, it has been my experience that the reason that developers don't release 64-bit versions is because they don't have a 64-bit machine to compile it on. This only counts for the software that is not in the official ubuntu repos, things in the repos will get compiled for all arch's (provided they weren't coded only for one). For instance, reacocard was only providing the 32-bit debs in a repo for software he is maintaining. So i'm taking his source package and compiling AWN and Exaile for him. Now he has both packages.

If you're not going to use your 64-bit machine, i'm sure there are some developers somewhere that would love to have it.

[Kilz]

You're contradicting yourself then, no offense. Yes I could do that, read stickies and research, but then my post would lose the point. And then again, who reads stickies anyways? Let's be frank, almost nobody. I know that from experience, been modding a forum since 2003 and it's a known fact in almost everywhere in internet. I'm just asking in the method of how a common nowadays user who comes from a Windows world would ask. (yes, it's not my style but I'm trying to give some reasons for staying on-topic). My intentions are not to argue or to have a flame around here.


No Im not contradicting myself, Im sick of the FUD and people who are to lazy to find the information right in front of their faces.

[aysiu]

You have never compiled a 32bit application? Do you think other 32bit users have never had to compile an application? Its just lazy to say you are not going to run the 64bit version because of 1 or 2 program compiles. Its one of the benefits of linux, that you are able to compile applications. IMHO if you just want a click click install. Dont even install the 32bit version, stick with Windows. I've never had to compile an application, and I don't plan to ever compile an application. Funny how I'm using Ubuntu two years now (not Windows). I've noticed, too, that a lot of potential Ubuntu users go running back to Windows the minute they do
have to compile an application.

Not everyone wants to have the benefit of compiling applications. Many of us Ubuntu (not Windows) users do, in fact, like to click click install.

[John.Michael.Kane]

I've never had to compile an application, and I don't plan to ever compile an application. Funny how I'm using Ubuntu two years now (not Windows). I've noticed, too, that a lot of potential Ubuntu users go running back to Windows the minute they do
have to compile an application.

Not everyone wants to have the benefit of compiling applications. Many of us Ubuntu (not Windows) users do, in fact, like to click click install.

IMHO it's not about having to compile a program. The fact is users want xyz program be it for 64bit or 32bit, and when it's not available as an easy to install deb file or though synaptic you end up with the issue of this that is not ready Or Why should i have to compile a program the devs should just make it etc.

Honestly one should have no issues compiling from source if the program is not "yet" in the repo's or in a deb format.

For one thing it allows the end user to understand their system, and what it can do, As well as allows them to have the software they may need until such time as it is added to repos or a deb is made.

[Kilz]

I've never had to compile an application, and I don't plan to ever compile an application. Funny how I'm using Ubuntu two years now (not Windows). I've noticed, too, that a lot of potential Ubuntu users go running back to Windows the minute they do
have to compile an application.

Not everyone wants to have the benefit of compiling applications. Many of us Ubuntu (not Windows) users do, in fact, like to click click install.

Let them go back, Im starting to come to the conclusion that some people want linux to be windows. They refuse to open a terminal, they wont compile an application. Sure click , click installs are nice. But if you need an application, ./configure, make , and sudo make install is not that difficult.

[Tux0r]

And you get the latest dev version if you want

[Paul820]

There is a lot of FUD about 64bit ubuntu, it put me off installing it on my Acer with AMD turion64 when i first got my laptop. I was reading through the forums and there was so many posts about things not working that i decided to install the 32bit version instead. I was a new ubuntu user so i didn't know any better. :( After about a month with 32bit i thought to myself i have a 64bit processor here so i may aswell use it. I backed up, wiped the drive and stuck the 64bit version on. I used the script supplied by kilz that i found while searching for a solution to flash, 30 seconds and it was in. Everything i used on 32bit i have on 64bit, nothing is different as far as software is concerned, even hardware for that matter.

If you look through the beginner forum from time to time there are still people asking about 64bit over 32bit and everyone keeps telling them to use 32bit instead. It's wrong, and people need to stop spreading these lies about how hard it is to set up. If these lies were not spread i would have been using 64bit from day 1.

[gweaver]

You have never compiled a 32bit application? Do you think other 32bit users have never had to compile an application? Its just lazy to say you are not going to run the 64bit version because of 1 or 2 program compiles. Its one of the benefits of linux, that you are able to compile applications. IMHO if you just want a click click install. Dont even install the 32bit version, stick with Windows.

Actually, I did have a quick go at compiling DVBCut and it didn't work. So I installed the required libraries, and it still didn't work.

And yes I know its just lazy wanting a one-click install for everything. If I'd thought I'd be in business with just a few simple compiles I might have persevered, but in my experience it often isn't that easy. And I'm sure there are plenty of others who feel the same way and just can't be bothered to spend hours trawling mailing lists.

Actually I think that you are missing the point of Ubuntu if you think I should stick with Windows.

Bug #1 in Launchpad is something like "Windows has majority market share". Ubuntu is all about tempting people away from Windows, and it isn't going to do that if people have to compile apps regularly.

To me and many others the beauty of Linux is:

Most things are designed and work as they should
You can install a whole operating system and apps with just a few clicks
You don't need to reinstall every year
It sticks to fingers up to Microsoft
It's ethically sound
It doesn't cost anything


And Ubuntu is IMHO the best example of user-friendly Linux. If I wanted to do the bleeding edge thing I'd use Debian.

If you want to compile apps all the time then thats fine by me. Just don't expect me to, and don't think that I'm using Ubuntu for the same reasons you are.

[stmiller]

1. Wine? does it work 100% as it does with 32-bit? you know I download almost any app I can find for Windows and try it out (Notepad++, UltraISO, LCISO Creator, WinRAR, anything)... same for games (Silkroad, CS 1.6 / Source, Driver & Driver 2, Diablo II, World of Warcraft... new and old games).
2. Beryl? Compiz?.
3. I've heard lots of flash problems... good to know they're getting solved.
4. What about devices? CD/DVD burners?.
5. Video/audio codecs? (I play from .XMs to .MP3, xVID, DivX 4, Matroska, OGG Theora, DVD movies...).
6. Quake 4? Doom 3? UT2004?
7. Dual monitor support? (Xinerama extension?)
8. Drivers? for example D-Link DWL-G122 Rev. B1, Trident 4Mb PCI card, NVIDIA GeForce4 Ti 4200 128Mb AGP8X, NVIDIA Riva TNT2 64Mb Model 64, Kode 1Gb USB stick, BenQ DC1300 digital camera, X-Box Controller, PSX Controller through parallel port, D-Link DSB-C110 webcam, Biostar P4M800-Pro motherboard, Encore ENM232-4C sound card, Realtek 8139 network card, Samsung CD/DVD RW?...
9. Programs crash? what about usability? any difference with 32-bit and 64-bit program versions? can I have both versions on 64-bit in case the 64-bit version hangs or crashes, I can use the 32-bit version?

However, if you (or anybody else) answer me and clarify my doubts and give me some proof of it, I'll make the move for sure :D :D

YES.

[Kilz]

Actually I think that you are missing the point of Ubuntu if you think I should stick with Windows.

Bug #1 in Launchpad is something like "Windows has majority market share". Ubuntu is all about tempting people away from Windows, and it isn't going to do that if people have to compile apps regularly.

To me and many others the beauty of Linux is:

Most things are designed and work as they should
You can install a whole operating system and apps with just a few clicks
You don't need to reinstall every year
It sticks to fingers up to Microsoft
It's ethically sound
It doesn't cost anything


And Ubuntu is IMHO the best example of user-friendly Linux. If I wanted to do the bleeding edge thing I'd use Debian.

If you want to compile apps all the time then thats fine by me. Just don't expect me to, and don't think that I'm using Ubuntu for the same reasons you are.

Im starting to believe that is true, that we are not using Ubuntu for the same reasons. I personaly like the community that can give answers to questions. That help is always avilable if I have a problem when working on something new. That there is no need to "spend hours trawling mailing lists" on any subject. But and here is an important concept. You should look for the information before expecting it to just be handed to you. Do you pay to have every application compiled? If you haven't, what have you given back to the community to expect others to compile everything?
Compiling applications is not bleeding edge, neither is anyone suggesting you compile applications all the time. YOU were the one who suggested 1 or 2 applications were missing. So compile 1 or 2.
Whats lazy is not that you are expected to compile tons of applications, But you see 1 or 2 missing and you dont want to compile 1 or 2 applications.
Secondly, while it may be the goal of someone to tempt you away from Windows, market share is dealing with things for sale. The bug #1 post is full of posts about whats for sale pre installed is all windows.

[DARKGuy]

YES.
:lolflag: great, I guess I'll try 64-bit this weekend then ^^.

Im starting to believe that is true, that we are not using Ubuntu for the same reasons. I personaly like the community that can give answers to questions. That help is always avilable if I have a problem when working on something new. That there is no need to "spend hours trawling mailing lists" on any subject. But and here is an important concept. You should look for the information before expecting it to just be handed to you. Do you pay to have every application compiled? If you haven't, what have you given back to the community to expect others to compile everything?
Compiling applications is not bleeding edge, neither is anyone suggesting you compile applications all the time. YOU were the one who suggested 1 or 2 applications were missing. So compile 1 or 2.
Whats lazy is not that you are expected to compile tons of applications, But you see 1 or 2 missing and you dont want to compile 1 or 2 applications.
Secondly, while it may be the goal of someone to tempt you away from Windows, market share is dealing with things for sale. The bug #1 post is full of posts about whats for sale pre installed is all windows.

As it has been said before, Ubuntu tries maybe unintentionally but thanks to its users to move away Windows users to Ubuntu. Do Windows users spend days, weeks, months through mailing lists to get something working? compiling a program in Windows is HELL, I've never been able to unless I have the IDE and I make the program myself.... I groan everytime I see some app or library (like SDL_Gfx) with VC5/6 project files and to know I have to get the IDE, open the project and then deal with the dozen of problems that always happen in Windows.

The case is not on Ubuntu, which thanks to the developers of nowadays code is easier to compile (even WINE) than in Windows, but what if the code wasn't ready for the 64-bit architecture? for example in my iteam game I need to set up some special compiler flags in my makefile for it to compile correctly, not to mention a 64-bit library will work in a 32-bit environment (and maybe visceversa) so it's a lot of compatibility issues that may hold some people back too.

If the app is missing why to compile it? most Ubuntu develop4ers aren't getting paid so they can't get a 64-bit processor, but 64-bit hardcore fans could do something to bring that app to the 64-bit world and stop whining about people who don't want to compile. I'm not saying to do it for them but also for yourself. You might have an easy time compiling some app for 64-bit, maybe even some C++ knowledge to fix the errors that might pop up, but there are others who don't, who, they might look like n00bs but who are you to know? can't guess a book by its cover, it could be a techno-geek with bad grammar...

JUst my 5 cents.

[tgm4883]

:lolflag: great, I guess I'll try 64-bit this weekend then ^^.



As it has been said before, Ubuntu tries maybe unintentionally but thanks to its users to move away Windows users to Ubuntu. Do Windows users spend days, weeks, months through mailing lists to get something working? compiling a program in Windows is HELL, I've never been able to unless I have the IDE and I make the program myself.... I groan everytime I see some app or library (like SDL_Gfx) with VC5/6 project files and to know I have to get the IDE, open the project and then deal with the dozen of problems that always happen in Windows.

The case is not on Ubuntu, which thanks to the developers of nowadays code is easier to compile (even WINE) than in Windows, but what if the code wasn't ready for the 64-bit architecture? for example in my iteam game I need to set up some special compiler flags in my makefile for it to compile correctly, not to mention a 64-bit library will work in a 32-bit environment (and maybe visceversa) so it's a lot of compatibility issues that may hold some people back too.

If the app is missing why to compile it? most Ubuntu develop4ers aren't getting paid so they can't get a 64-bit processor, but 64-bit hardcore fans could do something to bring that app to the 64-bit world and stop whining about people who don't want to compile. I'm not saying to do it for them but also for yourself. You might have an easy time compiling some app for 64-bit, maybe even some C++ knowledge to fix the errors that might pop up, but there are others who don't, who, they might look like n00bs but who are you to know? can't guess a book by its cover, it could be a techno-geek with bad grammar...

JUst my 5 cents.

Some of us do compile stuff for 64-bit. Some of us write great scripts (kilz) because we are unable to compile the program (closed source) Some of us even host our own repos in an attempt to get the debs out there for the masses.

The problem (and I have seen it mentioned in this thread) is that when someone pops up and says that a program doesn't exist in 64-bit, they conveinently leave out which program, then disappear never to tell us which program they need.

[DARKGuy]

The problem (and I have seen it mentioned in this thread) is that when someone pops up and says that a program doesn't exist in 64-bit, they conveinently leave out which program, then disappear never to tell us which program they need.

Then why not to make a thread asking for those programs? a list would be good and it would help you 64-bit people. That idea has already been said and even if the thread will be short, quality comes over quantity ^^.

[Kilz]

If the app is missing why to compile it? most Ubuntu develop4ers aren't getting paid so they can't get a 64-bit processor, but 64-bit hardcore fans could do something to bring that app to the 64-bit world and stop whining about people who don't want to compile. I'm not saying to do it for them but also for yourself. You might have an easy time compiling some app for 64-bit, maybe even some C++ knowledge to fix the errors that might pop up, but there are others who don't, who, they might look like n00bs but who are you to know? can't guess a book by its cover, it could be a techno-geek with bad grammar...

JUst my 5 cents.

Whining? Stay on 32bit, never move to 64bit. If you are not willing to try and help yourself, dont expect me or any other unpaid user to help you.

What have you given back to the community, that gives you any standing to demand users compile things for you?

Then why not to make a thread asking for those programs? a list would be good and it would help you 64-bit people. That idea has already been said and even if the thread will be short, quality comes over quantity ^^.

Please expalin how it helps us "64-bit people" to compile things for people who wont try and help themselves?

[gweaver]

But and here is an important concept. You should look for the information before expecting it to just be handed to you. Do you pay to have every application compiled? If you haven't, what have you given back to the community to expect others to compile everything?

I do tend to have a quick look for solutions to problems, and don't expect to have everything handed to me on a plate. I like to understand how stuff works, but when a compile fails with some weird error messages that I don't understand my eyes glaze over...

My contribution to the community is that I try to file a quality bug report every now and then. I also like to get involved in discussions about software features that might make OSS even better. I even make helpful suggestions to noobs every once in a while.

If it was possible to sponsor builds of specific software on (64bit) Ubuntu I might donate. Maybe developers could do with a shared Ubuntu 64 build resource? Would that help? Maybe it exists already?

[Kilz]

I do tend to have a quick look for solutions to problems, and don't expect to have everything handed to me on a plate. I like to understand how stuff works, but when a compile fails with some weird error messages that I don't understand my eyes glaze over...

My contribution to the community is that I try to file a quality bug report every now and then. I also like to get involved in discussions about software features that might make OSS even better. I even make helpful suggestions to noobs every once in a while.

If it was possible to sponsor builds of specific software on (64bit) Ubuntu I might donate. Maybe developers could do with a shared Ubuntu 64 build resource? Would that help? Maybe it exists already?

Honest people in need of answers receive help. If you do try to compile some application and it errors, post the error. Its the best way to learn what went wrong.

[DARKGuy]

Whining? Stay on 32bit, never move to 64bit. If you are not willing to try and help yourself, dont expect me or any other unpaid user to help you.

Excuse me, but you don't even know who I am, how do I deal with problems and what do I do for trying to solve them. I'm not like you're assuming.

What have you given back to the community, that gives you any standing to demand users compile things for you?
Why don't you use the Search (http://ubuntuforums.org/search.php) function and Google (http://www.google.com) me? (darkguy, darkguy2008 and dragondarkguy2008 )

But I'll save the work for ya:

http://gamepower.sourceforge.net/en/index.php (2D/3D engine on the works)
http://starsolarian.sourceforge.net/ (Space shooter game, never finished because I got interested in OpenGL and started working in GP2D/GP3D)
http://www.via2b.com/iteam/index.asp?highlight=home (iteam temporal website, a game I'm making for Linux (yes, 64-bit too, go ask Judo and Compwiz18, they use 64-bit and help my team work the stuff for compiling in 64-bit).
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=3198186 (the thread where I started asking for help for working on iteam - the goal is to extend GP2D into a free, powerful platform-independent library for making 2D games using OpenGL acceleration and C++ without much knowledge on the roots of both).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJsUsvwu43s (iteam video)
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=361528 (VMWare / Qemu howto - oh noez! it's in the 32-bit section!)
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=337909 (Thread where I started working along with Wybiral, l_darkness and BackwardsDown in GP3D before it screwed up and I ended working on GP2D instead, for extending GP3D later with the knowledge gained).
http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2776840&postcount=4 (X-Box controller works in Feisty, I made that post to show others my solution in case they had problems)
http://darkguy2008.blogspot.com/ (Oh! a dual-monitor HowTo)
https://launchpad.net/iteam (the website of the game we're working on (for 64-bit too can I repeat?) on Launchpad)

Shall I go on and on?...

Please expalin how it helps us "64-bit people" to compile things for people who wont try and help themselves?

It could help people like you to take it easy, do something more for the community and helping others migrate so in turn they can help you in the future.

Honest people in need of answers receive help. If you do try to compile some application and it errors, post the error. Its the best way to learn what went wrong.

Oh lookie, I've done that too:

https://bugs.launchpad.net/launchpad/+bug/38349 (launchpad bug)
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/langpack-locales/+bug/119645 (timezone bug - it hasn't been fixed since I made the post and a fix).
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-restricted-modules-2.6.22/+bug/132159 (recent bug with nvidia-glx)
https://answers.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+question/8464 (oh look, I solved my soundcard problem (that Encore ENM232-4C I posted before!))
https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+question/10392 (...)
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/libgphoto2/+bug/110767 (look! the camera I posted earlier! I posted a workaround that might help or give a clue, and if they need more info I can give it...).

Also, I've had a problem with setting up ethernet sharing through wireless for connecting a WinXP laptop through it, so I worked on a HowTo in the community documentation page. I couldn't finish it last night because some weird error popped up and I had a family matter to attend. But here's the link for ya:

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/ShareEthernetConnectionThroughWireless

Oh, I'll also edit the WiFi docs about the D-Link DWL-G122 USB wireless card because it has no instructions for Feisty.

See what happens when you assume? :/

[tgm4883]

Then why not to make a thread asking for those programs? a list would be good and it would help you 64-bit people. That idea has already been said and even if the thread will be short, quality comes over quantity ^^.

Simple reason really. Noone or almost noone will post in it. They won't for the same reason they don't read the stickies, they are LAZY. It's much easier to ask and wait for the answer than to do a little reading. It's is even easier to complain and hide (bomb throwers if you will).

Second, is it really necessary? 3rd party developers that can't handle jumping though a few hoops to get their package into the official repos have to compile it themselves. I can't help them if I don't know about them, and nobody is bringing them to my attention.

From Launchpad.net
64-bit Gutsy Binary packages: 22865

32-Bit GutsyBinary packages: 23219

SPARC GutsyBinary Packages:22623

64-bit Feisty Binary packages: 21386

32-bit Feisty Binary packages: 21683

SPARC Feisty Binary packages 21142


Hmm, that looks horrifiyingly similar.

:EDIT:

I was looking at the wrong figures, but still pretty similar.

[Tux0r]

Postal 2 runs great no performance loss as I feel

[Kilz]

Excuse me, but you don't even know who I am, how do I deal with problems and what do I do for trying to solve them. I'm not like you're assuming.


I asked who you were, and what you have done. I didnt assume anything.

Perhaps someone will compile an application for you, IF you ask nicely.

[DARKGuy]

Simple reason really. Noone or almost noone will post in it. They won't for the same reason they don't read the stickies, they are LAZY. It's much easier to ask and wait for the answer than to do a little reading. It's is even easier to complain and hide (bomb throwers if you will).

Second, is it really necessary? 3rd party developers that can't handle jumping though a few hoops to get their package into the official repos have to compile it themselves. I can't help them if I don't know about them, and nobody is bringing them to my attention.

I would post the same way I've reported bugs and posted fixes to them, and if I do, I know there are other people who will too. You're not up to know if people would post or not, why not to give it a try?

One thing are the developers, and other are the users, who in turn can do something for the community too if they get around to it. Maybe not everyone but I know there is people who would be glad to, if they had the way or needed tools to do so.

I asked who you were, and what you have done. I didnt assume anything.

Perhaps someone will compile an application for you, IF you ask nicely.

You didn't read my threads/posts/bug reports/site redaction, did you? do I reply to people kicking them off with my posts, saying they're lazy to find the answers, not giving them clues and ranting about the people who don't bother to find the information by themselves?. It would be a good idea to check the links I posted so you see I NEVER ask for something without giving anything in return, or at least giving the thanks. I'm really glad that my parents raised me in the good way of being polite and always ask for stuff nicely, greeting and saying goodbye, giving the thanks and so on. Now, then again, every family is different...

[Nexus...]

I have 64bit hardware and have Ubuntu Feisty Fawn 64bit installed also. I have had no problems with ANYTHING regarding compatibility it runs very smoothly.

[nanotube]

I have 64bit hardware and have Ubuntu Feisty Fawn 64bit installed also. I have had no problems with ANYTHING regarding compatibility it runs very smoothly.

say, you guys who are running 64bit ubuntu, what is your output of "uname -m"? it's "x86-64", right?

[tgm4883]

say, you guys who are running 64bit ubuntu, what is your output of "uname -m"? it's "x86-64", right?

thomas@hermes:~$ uname -m
x86_64
thomas@hermes:~$

thomas@hermes:~$ uname -a
Linux hermes 2.6.20-16-generic #2 SMP Thu Jun 7 19:00:28 UTC 2007 x86_64 GNU/Linux
thomas@hermes:~$

[Tux0r]

x86_64 actually :popcorn:

[DARKGuy]

dragon@cave:~$ uname -a
Linux cave 2.6.20-16-generic #2 SMP Thu Jun 7 19:00:28 UTC 2007 x86_64 GNU/Linux

I made the change, whee.

[Tux0r]

He was asking for m so that is not a benefit

[DARKGuy]

He was asking for m so that is not a benefit

My bad, sorry then :P

[Tux0r]

When DOOM 3 engine goes open source there will be 64bit compiled binarys and we will have more users switching I think
Also m$ is releasing their next OS 64bit only so that may give us a lot of 64bit new users

[Cam1223]

I really dont know why u guys are complaining so much. i have a 64bit system and it works fine, sure sometimes the program i want to use is only available in 32bit but thats why they let you force it in. i have tried a couple of times to compile but its never really worked (maybe because of the 64?) it always turns out some error, i think i got one to work the other day though.

you cant blame poeple for being lazy, poeple have lives, they cant sit at a computer for X amount of time to find a solution to a problem, thats why we like click click installs. the system is made to serve you not the other way around. sure if u have time u should find the proper solution to the problem you have. but usually i (like many others) need a program to work NOW not when its done compiling or when i figure out how to run it. Linux is great it lets you do w/e you want and i much rather prefer to compile a program than to have a POS shareware program or have to crack a program like in the world of windows.

And its not true what they say that Ubuntu is trying to tempt you away from windows. Ubuntu is really one of the only Linux distros that made sense to me (a user coming from the windows world) ask a regular person about compiling or dependancies they wont know what your talking about. Ubuntu just took things and made them simplier, things that to me should be obvious in an OS and that many other Linux distros lack.

call it lazy or impatient but i cant stand to even have to dual-boot into windows when i cant find the solution to something in linux or i need something to work right away (windows style as someone else called it) i just fire up virtualbox inside ubuntu and run windows its blazing fast and i owe it all to my 64bit Ubuntu system, so that jus goes to show even if it dosent work or its to complicated 32<64.
(yea u can do that on 32bit too but its jus not as fast)

[nanotube]

thanks to all who posted the uname -m (or -a ;) ) output. i needed it for a script to detect if it's on 64bit system, so now i know exactly what to check for.

[Tux0r]

Yeah I thought so

[Kilz]

you cant blame poeple for being lazy, poeple have lives, they cant sit at a computer for X amount of time to find a solution to a problem, thats why we like click click installs. the system is made to serve you not the other way around. sure if u have time u should find the proper solution to the problem you have. but usually i (like many others) need a program to work NOW not when its done compiling or when i figure out how to run it. Linux is great it lets you do w/e you want and i much rather prefer to compile a program than to have a POS shareware program or have to crack a program like in the world of windows.


I know you run the 64bit version. But did you really think about this when you wrote the highlighted words? You do realize that 90% of the work that goes into packages is because an unpaid user of Ubuntu made a package , right? That 95% of the solutions are from those same unpaid users, right?
This reply is just to point out they have lives also. That as Linux users we should all do our part to make Ubuntu better and not just rely on others to do the work. That may mean doing some research. That may mean putting in an hour or so. Just because its Free and Open Source Software doesnt mean there isnt any cost. The cost may be the time you spend.

Woe unto him that buildeth his house by unrighteousness, and his chambers by wrong; that useth his neighbour's service without wages, and giveth him not for his work;

[Tux0r]

And I shall write OpenGL games for everyone! And we benefit!

[gweaver]

And I shall write OpenGL games for everyone! And we benefit!

Yes please, more 3D games for Linux would be great ;)
Then I wouldn't need to use Windows at all :)

Do you think John Carmack or Tim Sweeney use Ubuntu and if so do you think they use 32 bit or 64 bit?!?

Seriously, I'm sure they would love to do more for Linux, but can't yet justify the business case for it.

[nanotube]

if any of you 64bit users care to test my ubuntuzilla script on a 64bit machine, and see if say, thunderbird, works fine, i'd really appreciate it.

see http://ubuntuzilla.sf.net/ for project homepage. please. :)

[Seq]

I use 32-bit solely for convenience/laziness reasons. I have a 32-bit server (Via C3), 32-bit laptop (core duo), and a 64-bit desktop (core 2 duo). Occasionally I'll come across a package that I want an updated (conduit) or patched (mail-notification) version, or sometimes need to roll my own .deb.

I use 32-bit on my desktop solely due to not needing to install everything needed to build packages on my laptop, and not having the time (yet) to look up how to build 32-bit packages in a 64-bit environment.

EDIT: Also, I have not wiped my hard disk since I upgraded to a 64-bit machine, I just moved it over.

[gweaver]

Having thought about it, once I've tidied up my hard disks a bit I'd like to have triple boot Windows XP, Ubuntu 32 bit and Ubuntu 64 bit. That way I can enjoy all the laziness of Ubuntu 32 bit and have a play with compiling stuff on Ubuntu 64bit.

Does anyone know if this is simply a case of installing 64 bit on top of my existing dual boot set-up, or does it get complicated? Cheers.

[Paul820]

if any of you 64bit users care to test my ubuntuzilla script on a 64bit machine, and see if say, thunderbird, works fine, i'd really appreciate it.

see http://ubuntuzilla.sf.net/ for project homepage. please. :)

I have just downloaded the ubuntuzilla-4.3.0-0ubuntu1-amd64.deb file and double clicked it, i got error: wrong architecture '1386'. I have the 64bit Ubuntu installed with an amd turion64 processor. I don't know what is wrong :( seems to be the correct package i got.

[tgm4883]

I have just downloaded the ubuntuzilla-4.3.0-0ubuntu1-amd64.deb file and double clicked it, i got error: wrong architecture '1386'. I have the 64bit Ubuntu installed with an amd turion64 processor. I don't know what is wrong :( seems to be the correct package i got.

Confirmed. Same error here. Feisty 64-bit on Core 2 Duo

[Paul820]

I'm not an expert, but inside the control file it says: Architecture i386, maybe that's what's doing it.

[marco123]

I think people are just ignorant of the reality of 64bit.

e.g. I've been running 64bit Feisty for a couple of months now and haven't had a single problem.

Flash wouldn't work in Firefox and it took me about 2 minutes to come here, find, download and install Kilz script.:)

The only program I used to use which doesn't work on 64bit is gDesklets, but now I just use conky and simdock instead.

[Cam1223]

Quote:Originally Posted by Cam1223
you cant blame poeple for being lazy, poeple have lives, they cant sit at a computer for X amount of time to find a solution to a problem, thats why we like click click installs. the system is made to serve you not the other way around. sure if u have time u should find the proper solution to the problem you have. but usually i (like many others) need a program to work NOW not when its done compiling or when i figure out how to run it. Linux is great it lets you do w/e you want and i much rather prefer to compile a program than to have a POS shareware program or have to crack a program like in the world of windows.

I know you run the 64bit version. But did you really think about this when you wrote the highlighted words? You do realize that 90% of the work that goes into packages is because an unpaid user of Ubuntu made a package , right? That 95% of the solutions are from those same unpaid users, right?

yes i did think about that when i wrote thoes words, thats why i also wrote

sure if u have time u should find the proper solution to the problem you have. but usually i (like many others) need a program to work NOW not when its done compiling or when i figure out how to run it.
Im sorry to disapoint you but most poeple arent programers and cant contribute programs, i dont have a problem with having to compile something, it just hardly ever works right, its not "./configure, make, make install" most of the time. it usually needs some overly complicated command where u have to download something else to get it to work. im no expert so that means 30 min of looking around to figure that out.
I do take my hat off to thoes who work on Linux and Ubuntu, its amazing poeple whould actually put time into something for free, and actually do a good job at it. look at 64bit windows last i heard it was a nightmare to get the right drivers and most programs didnt work (feel free to correct me on that im probably wrong)

[Kilz]

yes i did think about that when i wrote thoes words, thats why i also wrote
sure if u have time u should find the proper solution to the problem you have. but usually i (like many others) need a program to work NOW not when its done compiling or when i figure out how to run i
Do you expect other users to do something for nothing and solve all the problems you cant be bothered to learn how to fix? Please explain exactly makes you think you have the right to expect that if thats what you think.
Im sorry to disapoint you but most poeple arent programers and cant contribute programs, i dont have a problem with having to compile something, it just hardly ever works right, its not "./configure, make, make install" most of the time. it usually needs some overly complicated command where u have to download something else to get it to work.
Im not a programmer either. But I dont think this is true. Sure there are some applications that are hard to compile. But a lot of them can be compiled simply by following the instructions in the README file that source tarballs contain. Exactly how many programs have you tried to compile?
im no expert so that means 30 min of looking around to figure that out.
Good chance to learn something. 30 minutes of your time to learn something in order to get a high quality program someone is giving you for free is the deal of the century. Do you expect others to do something for you for free that you wont do yourself?
Please explain to me why you think your half hour is worth more than what you received. I do take my hat off to thoes who work on Linux and Ubuntu, its amazing poeple whould actually put time into something for free, and actually do a good job at it. look at 64bit windows last i heard it was a nightmare to get the right drivers and most programs didnt work (feel free to correct me on that im probably wrong)
While you give thanks, do you give anything back to the community? Do you help in some way? There are lots of ways to help the community, you dont have to be a programmer (Im not). Do you think its important to give back for what you received?

[fragility14]

I have some minor problems, but I'm a pretty new user.

The thing is, the hardware on my notebook is messed up in a weird way, and my desktop is working great and I ended up switching both...so I've had some things that I went a long time without succesfully getting to work...but in general once I finally put the effort in it did work.

Forcing the architecture is pretty easy and often just works.

[DARKGuy]

Kilz, man, you need to be in his shoes (and mine) too. It's really frustrating when you need to find an app to do something and find out it won't compile. As Cam1223 said, it's not just ./configure && make && sudo make install. Most of the times it is, but other times it isn't - take for example WINE: You need to do ./configure --verbose (or something) so it tells you optional dependencies it needs. It doesn't do that when ./configure, nor nothing tells you that unless you click the install link on the site by curiosity.

Another example: They bought me a computer at work and it has an integrated S3 Unichrome Pro video card (Biostar motherboard, same as my current one) and the vanilla drivers didn't have 3D acceleration. Will you believe I spent almost two work worth days trying to figure out how to compile the damn VIA driver which kept throwing errors trigger-happy?? I'm no C++ n00b, neither I'm an expert. I went through IRC, Google, Altavista and Yahoo! searches and finally stumbled upon the community guide which helped me to set it up - now I know where to search... but it was damn frustrating.

Why does Windows have a LARGE user base? not only because it came preinstalled but also because it's damn easy to use. You might not be scared by the terminal but I know people get scared by that stuff too. I have a friend who one day got a friend remove a virus from her Win98 computer and she tells me all she remembers was her friend type something in a black window and all her documents were gone (who knows WTF did the guy do, maybe he screwed it worse than it was) and everytime I go there to solve any of her problems and she sees me opening the command line she always points out that she's scared of it. I tried to talk to her once about it and I found out she also finds it complicated, scary and "useless" when she can, for example, happily move her files by dragging them to different windows.

Of course, anyone can learn the command line, but sometimes it's not just because of lazyness, but it could be because of intimidation, uninterest, and a common sense that says "We're in the 21st century man, command lines and black screens are from the 80's", etc.

Make Ubuntu easier and more compatible and you'll bring more people to the Ubuntu world (and 64-bit too). As you can see not everyone here is lazy to learn, but maybe they're intimidaded, unsure, unsafe, unsecure, or happy with their 32-bit machine. Leave the command line and scripts for the geeks like us. The easier you make the migration (either from 32-bit to 64-bit or from Windows/OSX to Ubuntu) the more secure new people will feel and will dare to make the move.

Why am I saying this? that way you'll be doing something for the community, you'll help yourself, help others who in turn will help others and maybe even you in the future. I don't know from where did that ideology of bringing something before asking for help - one must help without always asking for a reward. Hell, it's HELP damn it, not you nor any of us are getting paid, so the least you could do is to give thanks and maybe return the favor when you have enough experience - maybe not to the same person but to others. Doesn't "Ubuntu" means "bringing humanity to others" ? stuff like "what have you done for the community so you can ask for something" isn't too humanitarian, to be honest.

[tgm4883]

Kilz, man, you need to be in his shoes (and mine) too. It's really frustrating when you need to find an app to do something and find out it won't compile. As Cam1223 said, it's not just ./configure && make && sudo make install. Most of the times it is, but other times it isn't - take for example WINE: You need to do ./configure --verbose (or something) so it tells you optional dependencies it needs. It doesn't do that when ./configure, nor nothing tells you that unless you click the install link on the site by curiosity.

Another example: They bought me a computer at work and it has an integrated S3 Unichrome Pro video card (Biostar motherboard, same as my current one) and the vanilla drivers didn't have 3D acceleration. Will you believe I spent almost two work worth days trying to figure out how to compile the damn VIA driver which kept throwing errors trigger-happy?? I'm no C++ n00b, neither I'm an expert. I went through IRC, Google, Altavista and Yahoo! searches and finally stumbled upon the community guide which helped me to set it up - now I know where to search... but it was damn frustrating.

Why does Windows have a LARGE user base? not only because it came preinstalled but also because it's damn easy to use. You might not be scared by the terminal but I know people get scared by that stuff too. I have a friend who one day got a friend remove a virus from her Win98 computer and she tells me all she remembers was her friend type something in a black window and all her documents were gone (who knows WTF did the guy do, maybe he screwed it worse than it was) and everytime I go there to solve any of her problems and she sees me opening the command line she always points out that she's scared of it. I tried to talk to her once about it and I found out she also finds it complicated, scary and "useless" when she can, for example, happily move her files by dragging them to different windows.

Of course, anyone can learn the command line, but sometimes it's not just because of lazyness, but it could be because of intimidation, uninterest, and a common sense that says "We're in the 21st century man, command lines and black screens are from the 80's", etc.

Make Ubuntu easier and more compatible and you'll bring more people to the Ubuntu world (and 64-bit too). As you can see not everyone here is lazy to learn, but maybe they're intimidaded, unsure, unsafe, unsecure, or happy with their 32-bit machine. Leave the command line and scripts for the geeks like us. The easier you make the migration (either from 32-bit to 64-bit or from Windows/OSX to Ubuntu) the more secure new people will feel and will dare to make the move.

Why am I saying this? that way you'll be doing something for the community, you'll help yourself, help others who in turn will help others and maybe even you in the future. I don't know from where did that ideology of bringing something before asking for help - one must help without always asking for a reward. Hell, it's HELP damn it, not you nor any of us are getting paid, so the least you could do is to give thanks and maybe return the favor when you have enough experience - maybe not to the same person but to others. Doesn't "Ubuntu" means "bringing humanity to others" ? stuff like "what have you done for the community so you can ask for something" isn't too humanitarian, to be honest.

I was with you all the way to here. You forget tat "bringing humanity to others" doesn't translate to "gimme gimme gimme, demand demand demand".

[Kilz]

I was with you all the way to here. You forget tat "bringing humanity to others" doesn't translate to "gimme gimme gimme, demand demand demand".

Thank you tgm! :D

DARKGuy,
What you dont understand is that I have over the past year or so given, and given, and given. Only to see people disappear. They get what they want , and never give a thing back. They are to used to the world of commercial software where they can demand what they want, take it and run away. Why? Because they pay for the software.
This isnt commercial software. Im surprised with all you have done, you didnt see where I was going with the questions
Right now I could care less if anyone used the 64bit version. Tell me what benefit I get out of more people installing the 64bit version? I can tell you the down side. A ton of ex Windows users who want a windows version of Linux. Who demand things. Who cant be bothered to read anything, don't use the search function, and post the same thing over and over again. Who cant even take 30 minutes to look up some information.
Thats ok in commercial software, its not ok in a community.
Whats going to happen, is that the people who give and give are going to start to get burnt out. They are going to tell some people where they can go (a hot place where they dont serve ice water).
Now , post something about how I have to do something. ](*,)

[Cam1223]

I agree with DARKGuy, but u also have to find a balance its not to leech off of other poeple like tgm4883 said. u have to give back, and Kilz i know i havent given back but im willing to, i use the search feature in the forms and its up to now that i am semi-comftable in the Linux world because of Ubuntu and because poeple posted solutions to problems and because when i asked a question someone out there took the time out to answer me NICELY and not call me some Ex-windoez user noob.

you didnt seem to understand where i was going when i wrote that a user couldent be botherd to spend 30 min lookin stuff up. lets say i had a report due tomorow and my printer dosent work, i need HELP NOW. learning is great when u have time, but in that situation the user really cant go around for hours or even days looking for a solution. thats what i ment thoes emergency situations.

I can see how frustrating it gets to help someone and just have them disappear, but dude relax no one is forcing you to help them thats not your job. if u dont want to just dont.

you expect things to work , when u find out they dont u look for a solution, i like linux thats why i use it and reading through man pages to get something to work is ok when i have time if i need to do something now what is so wrong about asking someone who knows?

example: your going somewhere in your car and get lost, sure u go around and try to find the address your self and search and search for a while, but u needed to be at this place at 7 its 6.50 and you pull over and ask someone that knows for directions.

same deal, they arent getting anything for telling you how to get there. theyr just helping out because they know and you dont
in that situation no one says "u know what wander around for another half hour and read the street signs"

[DARKGuy]

I was with you all the way to here. You forget tat "bringing humanity to others" doesn't translate to "gimme gimme gimme, demand demand demand".

Indeed, but it's something that's learnt with time. Like Kilz said, they're used to what they do in the Windows world and while others might not return the favor, others will. Maybe the oldest ones who have morals and were raised in a good way *shrugs*.

Thank you tgm! :D

DARKGuy,
What you dont understand is that I have over the past year or so given, and given, and given. Only to see people disappear. They get what they want , and never give a thing back. They are to used to the world of commercial software where they can demand what they want, take it and run away. Why? Because they pay for the software.
This isnt commercial software. Im surprised with all you have done, you didnt see where I was going with the questions
Right now I could care less if anyone used the 64bit version. Tell me what benefit I get out of more people installing the 64bit version? I can tell you the down side. A ton of ex Windows users who want a windows version of Linux. Who demand things. Who cant be bothered to read anything, don't use the search function, and post the same thing over and over again. Who cant even take 30 minutes to look up some information.
Thats ok in commercial software, its not ok in a community.
Whats going to happen, is that the people who give and give are going to start to get burnt out. They are going to tell some people where they can go (a hot place where they dont serve ice water).
Now , post something about how I have to do something. ](*,)

That's curious, people is giving thanks and even giving you feedback on your flash script, even learning from your script, so what's the big deal? I've had that happen to me for my entire school and high school years (12 and I'm on my last semester of high school) and I still help people because I don't mind if they return the favor or not because it's not me who it's gonna obligate them. We have something called conscience who will take care of it. I've helped people thorough all my life in school and most of them haven't even gave me a "thank you", some even have swindled me numerous times, but what? I can't obligate them. Sadly they weren't taught to give thanks or to return the favor if they feel like it, It's not my job but God's.

Just like Cam1223 said, you don't have to help people if you don't want to, you kinda make it sound like if you've been always there helping helping helping and not getting anything in return - as I said don't always expect something. Why? well we could back in the past, but it's a new era, sadly. I know how it feels to help help help and help and to not to get anything, but I'm not complaining to everyone about it, after all, you're not getting paid, are you? neither am I.

I can tell you what to do: Keep helping. Maybe not us in the way you'd wish but somebody else will pay you for all this, something will happen, don't know. Helping others doesn't hurt anything and it makes you feel good, or at least it does to me, so I can sit back, relax, and know I've helped others with a great tool/tip/howto/etc. and that I'll have at least a reason to ask for help too, no matter if my help has been large or small.

I agree with DARKGuy, but u also have to find a balance its not to leech off of other poeple like tgm4883 said. u have to give back, and Kilz i know i havent given back but im willing to, i use the search feature in the forms and its up to now that i am semi-comftable in the Linux world because of Ubuntu and because poeple posted solutions to problems and because when i asked a question someone out there took the time out to answer me NICELY and not call me some Ex-windoez user noob.

you didnt seem to understand where i was going when i wrote that a user couldent be botherd to spend 30 min lookin stuff up. lets say i had a report due tomorow and my printer dosent work, i need HELP NOW. learning is great when u have time, but in that situation the user really cant go around for hours or even days looking for a solution. thats what i ment thoes emergency situations.

I can see how frustrating it gets to help someone and just have them disappear, but dude relax no one is forcing you to help them thats not your job. if u dont want to just dont.

you expect things to work , when u find out they dont u look for a solution, i like linux thats why i use it and reading through man pages to get something to work is ok when i have time if i need to do something now what is so wrong about asking someone who knows?

example: your going somewhere in your car and get lost, sure u go around and try to find the address your self and search and search for a while, but u needed to be at this place at 7 its 6.50 and you pull over and ask someone that knows for directions.

same deal, they arent getting anything for telling you how to get there. theyr just helping out because they know and you dont
in that situation no one says "u know what wander around for another half hour and read the street signs"

Indeed I agree with you too Cam1223, it's not good to leech and not to give anything back =/ and yeah, that's exactly my point... I've tried to use Ubuntu at work and I've passed through desperate situations lots of times and I've had to reboot into Windows because I didn't solve it in Ubuntu in time as I would have in Windows. It's sad because I love my wobbly windows and 3D cube :( but Windows works when I need it to (well... mostly) whereas unless you're a whiz, Ubuntu won't 50%.

On another note, I'm in 64-bit and loving it. I only had one crash and it was when trying stuff with Compiz until I realized I was using the 32-bit packages xD. Ares and Notepad++ work beautifully and CompizFusion is da bomb. Guess I'll try gaming next ;)

[rsambuca]

Also m$ is releasing their next OS 64bit only so that may give us a lot of 64bit new usersActually, at the Microsoft Global Exchange (MGX) Conference in Orlanda just this past July, MS told MGX attendees that Windows Seven would probably be released in 2010 and will be in both 32 and 64 bit versions.

[Tux0r]

They have to make up their minds I think

[jpkotta]

I went 64-bit with my new system at home. It was much more painless than I expected. The only thing I miss are the w32codecs (I have a 32-bit chroot for those). However, at work I still run 32-bit even though 64-bit would be even more beneficial there. I haven't updated it because a) it works now and b) it needs to work with minimal effort. I don't need to be f-ing around with that when there's work to be done.

[tgm4883]

I went 64-bit with my new system at home. It was much more painless than I expected. The only thing I miss are the w32codecs (I have a 32-bit chroot for those). However, at work I still run 32-bit even though 64-bit would be even more beneficial there. I haven't updated it because a) it works now and b) it needs to work with minimal effort. I don't need to be f-ing around with that when there's work to be done.

Have you tried installing w64codecs?

[donovan1983]

If 64bit Feisty would have even been able to show me something other than a white screen just after I logged in then I might be running it. The live CD worked fine, only after installing it did I find this issue. And 32bit Ubuntu worked fine once installed, so not a general Feisty issue. I don't have any problem having to configure a little bit more stuff than I might have had to on the 32bit version, after all I've installed Gentoo (successfully) multiple times and compiled more Linux and FreeBSD kernels than I can count, but I just expect a certain level of usability and stability right after installing it.

I am now running a 64bit OS anyway. Both MEPIS and Sabayon's 64bit editions work great on my machine and I ended up picking Sabayon due to being more up-to-date (compared to MEPIS) and having far more functionality out of the box. I have no real need for 64bit, it's more of a "oh hell, why not" kind of things, but I figured I might as well give it a shot. I'm glad I did, if anything for the warm and fuzzy feeling I get from knowing I'm using more of my hardware's capabilities.

64bit Gutsy Tribe 4 did work the same as the 32bit version of it (comparing AMD64 to PPC32 installs), but it is far too buggy to be running on a desktop, otherwise I'd likely be running it right now.

[Kilz]

64bit Gutsy Tribe 4 did work the same as the 32bit version of it (comparing AMD64 to PPC32 installs), but it is far too buggy to be running on a desktop, otherwise I'd likely be running it right now.

Did you expect something different from a Alpha release?

[Tux0r]

Feisty was stable as far as I can remember but that was just good luck. Looking forward to gutsy RC

[Kilz]

I kind of wish that the developers would keep the alpha versions broken and unusable. Because way to many people install these versions and expect them to work like a release. We already get people posting problems with Gutsy to areas other than the development sub forum.

[DARKGuy]

I kind of wish that the developers would keep the alpha versions broken and unusable. Because way to many people install these versions and expect them to work like a release. We already get people posting problems with Gutsy to areas other than the development sub forum.

I agree with you to an extent. People hope that alpha versions work as if they were stable already - but with enough information and at least a warning about it (like I've seen in almost any beta/alpha version of any windows program I download) will suffice. Then again there's the ones who don't even listen to it and you have to point it out for them again.

I went through that not too long ago when some dude tried to test my iteam game (which isn't even alpha yet) and expected it to work as if it was finished already. A bit of talking and everything was solved. You don't have to be THAT extremist.

[Tux0r]

I kind of wish that the developers would keep the alpha versions broken and unusable. Because way to many people install these versions and expect them to work like a release. We already get people posting problems with Gutsy to areas other than the development sub forum.
That's not too good

[nss0000]

BogK:

Whoa there, matey ... be careful what you say is simple. If WINE were "simple" it would be installed and used like , say. GEDIT. But it isn't and it's not.

Fact is, your hard work on this forum has allowed many folks access to proggies that would otherwise be untouchable. So don't call them easy. At heart they are monstrosities l