JoinDiscussion,SocialDiscussion,UF - What is the relationship?

[UbWorld]

Several months ago UF spammed everyone here with PMs advertising SocialDiscussion.com (since renamed JoinDiscussion.com).

Two weeks ago an additional announcement was made here...
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=507721

This announcement was allowed to stand unimpeded. An admin here made this comment there:

The JoinDiscussion forum was originally created by ubuntu-geek, and all staff there is also staff here.

Yesterday I posted some feedback about this site as a reply to the announcement above. My feedback was immediately moved to The Backyard here
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=523068

A bit later...

There is no association between Ubuntu Forums and Join thediscussion Forum.

This needs to be taken else where.

KiwiNZ
Administrator, Forum Council Member,


And he/she closed the thread.

My question is, why does this suddenly need to be taken elsewhere, and what is YOUR association with JoinDiscussion and the admins there, KiwiNZ?

If UF is going to spam everyone with PMs about this site, then it should expect some basic feedback on that site.

If UF is going to let another SPAM announcement about JoinDiscussion stand in the Cafe for the last two weeks, looking like an official announcement, but then immediately whisk away any feedback about that announcement, I think that behavior needs to be explained. It is clear the admins here are being partial to that site, all the while claiming they are not and that there is no association.

If "all staff there is also staff here" then how is that "There is no association between Ubuntu Forums and Join thediscussion Forum"? That sounds like an association to me. The two are associated in certain ways, and that association is clearly influencing the way UF is administered.

If the UF admins can't figure out why feedback about JoinDiscussion is landing on this site, then I think they need to take a clear look at the way they are administrating this site to promote a positive view of JoinDiscussion, removing negative feedback about it, and spamming users about it. Could it be you created this problem?

If you're going to advertise what I consider a biased and partial forum (to put it mildly), expect some feedback. I went there precisely because UF spammed me about it, thinking I would see the social dimension of the linux community. I certainly hope that forum does not represent the linux community. And I certainly hope the biased, juvenile administration of that site, which runs it like a good ol' boys club, eliminating anyone who challenges the prevailing views of the forum, in fact isn't associated with UF. And if it isn't, why is it being given OBVIOUS preferential treatment by the admins here?

I think you need to address this, and also disclose your individual associations with that site and its admins.

Or, you could just whisk this thread away too.

[bonzodog]

What happened was this:

Ubuntugeek (the main admin here) decided it would be fun to set-up a new forum based around the backyard here where anyone could join in. He called it SocialDiscussion.com. He initially decided to hire all the staff from here that wanted to help out.

However, after a few weeks, it became clear to him that he had neither the time nor money to support the project, and sold the forum database to mmccarthy (whoever she is?), who promptly moved it to a new domain called joindiscussion.com , and proceeded to commence a staff move around. this is now why the current staff there are some from here and some hired by her.

[UbWorld]

What happened was this:

Ubuntugeek (the main admin here) decided it would be fun to set-up a new forum based around the backyard here where anyone could join in. He called it SocialDiscussion.com. He initially decided to hire all the staff from here that wanted to help out.

However, after a few weeks, it became clear to him that he had neither the time nor money to support the project, and sold the forum database to mmccarthy (whoever she is?), who promptly moved it to a new domain called joindiscussion.com , and proceeded to commence a staff move around. this is now why the current staff there are some from here and some hired by her.

Thanks for that explanation. It begins to explain a lot. mmccarthy was the admin who banned me for my comments about her administration methods. And that would also explain why other more level-headed admins were unable or unwilling to intercede in the ban.

It still does not explain why JoinDiscussion is still being given preferential treatment here, as I described above (unless it does, but not in any honest or reasonable way).

I think the admins here need to disclose their involvement at JoinDiscussion, including their usernames there. Part of being an admin is being impartial. That impartiality is obviously not present when JoinDiscussion SPAM is allowed to remain here, and negative comments about it are removed.

My opinion of UF, which was once quite high, is beginning to be seriously damaged by their association with and treatment of JoinDiscussion. I think it's time to visit some of the other great linux forums - ones that welcome everyone and focus on linux, not on their pet *** projects.

[bapoumba]

Thread moved to "Forum Feedback & Help".

Thanks bonzodog for the explanation. The JoinDiscussion owner is now sdkub. And there is only historical relationship now between the two forums. I used to mod on SD, not anymore, the same applies to other staff members. A new staff team has been put together on JD.

If a forum or another does no fit one's need, no need to hang around. And we won't allow more discussion on the subject. If it is clear to you, UbWorld, that JD does not correspond to what you are looking for, you will not change it by posting complains here. You need to deal directly with them. And no name callings, please. Thank you.

[UbWorld]

I will just note that bapoumba just moved this thread. As he is one of the admins being discussed in this thread, I just felt that should be noted. I can see why it was moved where it was. It was also moved to a less visible location.

For the record, bapoumba, what is your association with JoinDiscussion?

And why you were moving this thread, why did you not jail the SPAM thread mentioned about JoinDiscussion? Your reasoning?

[UbWorld]

If a forum or another does no fit one's need, no need to hang around.

Yes, a JoinDiscussion admin banned me. It is the only time I have ever been banned from a forum. I was banned for issuing a complaint about an admin, in their Forum Feedback section, and I was banned by the very admin I was issuing a complaint about. My refering to the admin as a poor administrator was labeled a "personal attack".

I contested this to give the overall site a chance to decide if this one admin represented their site. As they have not replied to my request, apparently she does. That is up to them - it is their site and up to them to define the administration of that site. If they want to run it as a good ol' boys club, so be it. I won't be begging for admission. Nor does it surprise me in the least, having gotten to know the forum, its admins and moderators, and its participants.

Then there is the obvious association between the admins of that site and the admins here, and the way they are suppressing negative feedback about JoinDiscussion here, all the while promoting it and spamming about it.

And there is only historical relationship now between the two forums. I used to mod on SD, not anymore, the same applies to other staff members. A new staff team has been put together on JD.

So why is the JoinDiscussion SPAM being allowed to remain in the Cafe, and why is negative feedback being suppressed? And why did you not address those questions in my post?

[UbWorld]

And there is only historical relationship now between the two forums. I used to mod on SD, not anymore, the same applies to other staff members. A new staff team has been put together on JD.

Also, are you and others friends with the admins of JD? Do you speak with them? What is your relationship with them? What was your username on JD/SD?

As your impartiality is being questioned, and as you have responsibilities here, I believe this question is warranted.

I note that you moved this thread faster than lightning, all the while ignoring multiple, obvious SPAMs in the same forum.

[UbWorld]

I will also note that the words which bapoumba just removed from my post at the top of this thread were not expletives or derogatory. They were adjectives that simply describe political leanings and values. Apparently he felt this was an insult. So be it.

The main point of my thread is not JoinDiscussion or the people there. It is why SPAM about that site is being allowed to remain and is being protected from negative feedback. This question has still not been answered, the SPAM has still not been addressed. The only result thus far is that my thread raising the question has been moved and censored. Fast action.

This is beginning to remind me of the administration on JD. Gee, I wonder why.

[bapoumba]

We all used the same nick on SD, except ubuntu-geek who is brandx there.
I do not know the new admins, we do not speak, there is no need for it. They run their forums as they want.

As far as being fast, I am sometimes very slow too. FYI, I just came back from a bike ride with my kids, and during their shower, I checked my rss reader. Your post was on top of the Cafe folder.

Please do not inflate this, there is no point to it.

[UbWorld]

We all used the same nick on SD, except ubuntu-geek who is brandx there.
I do not know the new admins, we do not speak, there is no need for it. They run their forums as they want.

As far as being fast, I am sometimes very slow too. FYI, I just came back from a bike ride with my kids, and during their shower, I checked my rss reader. Your post was on top of the Cafe folder.

Please do not inflate this, there is no point to it.

Thank you for answering those questions.

You still are not addressing my questions regarding the administration of this forum, or why the JoinDiscussion SPAM is being allowed to remain in the Cafe, while negative comments are being whisked away, as are other SPAMs in the same forum. Can you explain that please?

[UbWorld]

Note, I am not merely asking you to remove the SPAM (although that would be appropriate, obviously). I am asking you and other admins to explain why it has been allowed to remain here for two weeks. Not only has it not been removed, but when I posted negative feedback in the thread, my comments were moved elsewhere.

How do you explain this, personally and as a group?

[bapoumba]

Thank you for answering those questions.

You still are not addressing my questions regarding the administration of this forum, or why the JoinDiscussion SPAM is being allowed to remain in the Cafe, while negative comments are being whisked away, as are other SPAMs in the same forum. Can you explain that please?

Lets put it that way. If any other forums allow negative comments about UF, it's on them. It is an ethical point of view not to welcome it here. JD or any other site.

As far of the Cafe thread, it was created when the change of name and ownership arrived on JD. There still were lots of crossed member and staff at that point of time. Not any longer.

I'm am now kindly asking you to get it over with and move on.

[UbWorld]

As far of the Cafe thread, it was created when the change of name and ownership arrived on JD. There still were lots of crossed member and staff at that point of time. Not any longer.

I'm am now kindly asking you to get it over with and move on.

Lots of people have cross memberships with lots of sites. It's still an obvious unsolicited advertisement, and your refusal to remove it, while racing to remove negative feedback to it, is obviously partial.

It is obvious this is all about some kind of admin politics. My suggestion to you is that you administer this site on principles, rather than on special favors.

Why are you enforcing the SPAM rules in a partial and inconsistent manner? Are you afraid of offending ubuntu-geek and losing your "job"? I find it inexplicable any other way.

Again, I think the admins in general need to explain their behavior on this point, and also need to remove the obvious SPAM. Either that, or they need to acknowledge the sites are associated and advertise each other, in which case feedback is warranted.

Make up your minds. Are you or are you not associated with this site, and do you or do you not accept SPAM in the Cafe?

[bapoumba]

One last answer, and I step out of this thread.


Why are you enforcing the SPAM rules in a partial and inconsistent manner? Are you afraid of offending ubuntu-geek and losing your "job"? I find it inexplicable any other way.
I'm here because *I* want it. I was not offered a job, u-g asked me if i'd like to join, and I said yes. From that point on, it's *my* choice to remain or not. And I feel very free to address anything with him or any other staff member.


Again, I think the admins in general need to explain their behavior on this point, and also need to remove the obvious SPAM. Either that, or they need to acknowledge the sites are associated and advertise each other, in which case feedback is warranted.
Because you have an issue with JD, it does not make a 2 weeks old thread stating infos about its new status a spam. Sorry.


Make up your minds. Are you or are you not associated with this site, and do you or do you not accept SPAM in the Cafe?
We were, we are not any longer. For the spam issue, see previous comment.

[UbWorld]

We were, we are not any longer.... Because you have an issue with JD, it does not make a 2 weeks old thread stating infos about its new status a spam. Sorry.

And were you associated when that thread was started two weeks ago? If not, why was it, and why is it, being allowed to remain? (Except for the fact that at this point you would have to admit to being "wrong", and all that that entails.)

And if you acknowledge the association and the obvious advertising, which you just did, why are you removing negative feedback to that announcement from that thread, and claiming it does not pertain to this forum? You can't have it both ways.

[bodhi.zazen]

Thread closed as it is going nowhere fast.

UbWorld : You have made your point.

It is not our goals to remove every reference/link to other sites on the Ubuntu forums.

What exactly constitutes spam is not always black and white and the staff discuss and review the gray areas in order to come to consensus and not be too heavily handed.

This is the first complaint I am aware of regarding your issue, and it appears to be under consideration by at least one admn (KiwiNZ).

Thank you for referring this issue but I think you should patiently await his final determination.

In the future, there is a mechanism to report spam on the forums, ir report a post. This is the best way to alert the staff of what you consider spam, but it is not reasonable to expect that the staff will agree.

[UbWorld]

Thread closed as it is going nowhere fast.

UbWorld : You have made your point.

It is not our goals to remove every reference/link to other sites on the Ubuntu forums.

What exactly constitutes spam is not always black and white and the staff discuss and review the gray areas in order to come to consensus and not be too heavily handed.

This is the first complaint I am aware of regarding your issue, and it appears to be under consideration by at least one admn (KiwiNZ).

Thank you for referring this issue but I think you should patiently await his final determination.

In the future, there is a mechanism to report spam on the forums, ir report a post. This is the best way to alert the staff of what you consider spam, but it is not reasonable to expect that the staff will agree.

Thank you for addressing this matter. I have several questions for you...

1) What is your association with JoinDiscussion and its admins?

2) Why did you close my previous thread on the subject, quickly, when it had not been resolved, and before others could have contributed their comments. This is the forum feedback, section, is it not? What was your purpose and justification for doing so?

3) So be it if certain advertisements are allowed to stand, and it is a "gray" area. Yet if they are allowed to stand, then why are replies to them deemed inappropriate, moved, and closed? Not all replies, merely replies that contain negative feedback about the site in question.

Thank you for your clear and complete answers.

[Bachstelze]

1) None at the moment, as you've been told countless times.

2) Because they have nothing to do here. This is an Ubuntu support forum, not a place to come and cry about you being banned on another forum.

3) I moved those posts because they also contained attacks towards the UF staff I deemed inappropriate. And before you ask, I am not, and never was, a mod, let alone an admin, at SD/JD.

Other questions ?

[UbWorld]

1) None at the moment, as you've been told countless times.

I am asking YOUR association. Do you know the JD admins? Are you a participant or admin there?

2) Because they have nothing to do here. This is an Ubuntu support forum, not a place to come and cry about you being banned on another forum.

What I am addressing here, in the FORUM FEEDBACK SECTION, is the administration of THIS forum.

So again, why did you close my previous thread? What was your justification? Surely you can see that what was being discussed was THIS site's administration.

What is the point of having a forum feedback section if you can't bear to hear any questions and close the thread in a panic?

3) I moved those posts because they also contained attacks towards the UF staff I deemed inappropriate. And before you ask, I am not, and never was, a mod, let alone an admin, at SD/JD.

What do you deem an "attack"? Asking a question about your policies is an "attack"?

Quote my "attack" specifically for I can respond to it. Or stop making unwarranted accusations (which is an "attack").

[UbWorld]

I also now notice that every post I make must be "approved" before it is allowed to appear on the forum.

Exactly what is it I said for this to be necessary. I asked a question about the administration if this site, and still have not received a clear answer as to why several threads have now been closed.

Have a problem with people speaking? That's great on a forum.

Have a problem with people commenting on the forum? That's great in the "forum feedback" section.

[Bachstelze]

What I am addressing here, in the FORUM FEEDBACK SECTION, is the administration of THIS forum.

So again, why did you close my previous thread? What was your justification? Surely you can see that what was being discussed was THIS site's administration.

What is the point of having a forum feedback section if you can't bear to hear any questions and close the thread in a panic?

This is a place where UF users can discuss issues with the staff. You are not an UF user since you just signed in so you could complain about JD. Therefore, you have nothing to do here and I personnally value your opinion about how we operate this forum about as much as my first Bash script.

End of discussion, thread closed.

[PriceChild]

In agreement with HymnToLife, UbuntuForums.org no longer has any affiliation with JoinDiscussion.com

You are grossly offtopic in complaining about them over here.

Please contact their staff if you still have unresolved issues.

We can do no more.

Pricey