Microsoft's next OS will...

[hussam]

1. Suck less than XP.
2. Suck as equally as XP.
3. Not suck but not good enough considering it is a 5 year work ( 2001 > 2006 ).
4. Be a pitiful attempt by MS to keep there cunstomers interested.

[primeirocrime]

will make a Pentium VI 7,4 Ghz with 6Gb Ram look like a 486DX with 16mb ram running Windows 98Se. and cof a lot in the process.

[Kvark]

Huh, no "wOOt it will pwnz0r!" option :mad:

I think "XP -> longhorn" will turn out like like "2k -> xp" did.

At first you look around at the new toys like a link to buy diapers on post order from the start menu and online tarot on right click. So you go "wow this really looks better". Most users will forgive it for everything else and think it rocks after this cause the online tarot told them to.

Then after a while you notice that doing normal admin tasks is like playing monkey island cause they hid the whole control panel and to find it you need to combine a balloon with a stick and put a herring on the stick so the control panel cat comes jumping after the balloon.

Also you notice games that ran fine on XP lags on longhorn.

Finally when you have reformatted due to viruses you have to go back to XP cause longhorn will refuse to install again, oh, wait you have to go back to 2k cause by now XP refuses to reinstall too.

[NeoSNightmarE]

I was kinda disappointed that there was no option for another crapware OS that will be a resource hog and continually crash no matter what they do. But since XP is pretty much like that I put equal to XP. No love for longhorn. It just isn't doing it for me and until I get proven otherwise that's my statement that I'm sticking with. And comeon, 5 years is a long time to work on something that you know is going to have huge security holes and all that other fun stuff.

/rant on Longhorn

[kvidell]

Aww... but aren't you all looking forward to the Red Screen 'O Death? I am!
And the useless GUI Effects that are trying to knock on QuartzExtreme from Panther and Tiger?
I know _I_ want an OS that requires more hardware overhead than some games I play.
Then again when it comes to workstations and laptops, I prefer Apple stuff... so I guess I wont have to find out right away ;)
- Kev

[WirelessMike]

primeirocrime:
will make a Pentium VI 7,4 Ghz with 6Gb Ram look like a 486DX with 16mb ram running Windows 98Se. and cof a lot in the process.
NeoSNightmarE:
I was kinda disappointed that there was no option for another crapware OS that will be a resource hog and continually crash no matter what they do. But since XP is pretty much like that I put equal to XP. No love for longhorn. It just isn't doing it for me and until I get proven otherwise that's my statement that I'm sticking with. And comeon, 5 years is a long time to work on something that you know is going to have huge security holes and all that other fun stuff.
kvidell
Aww... but aren't you all looking forward to the Red Screen 'O Death? I am!
And the useless GUI Effects that are trying to knock on QuartzExtreme from Panther and Tiger?
I know _I_ want an OS that requires more hardware overhead than some games I play.
Then again when it comes to workstations and laptops, I prefer Apple stuff... so I guess I wont have to find out right away
- Kev

Ditto.

[sonny]

They've created an OS monster, wich will sallow more resources that the previous ones, will be harder to mantain, no pc would run it properly, and above all, won't let you install anything they don't approve; would that include OSS?.

It won't suck, but they won't make big changes for a 5 year proyect, Linux community does it much better and a LOT faster.

[primeirocrime]

They've created an OS monster, wich will sallow more resources that the previous ones,

and will eat people in the process, even the bones.

[brim4brim]

and will eat people in the process, even the bones.
I think Longhorn will be great because Ms may have dropped all their other features but the DRM in the OS is still there screwing with all your files which is exactly what users want.

Warning: There maybe a wee bit of sarcasm in the above statement.

[dcraven]

Regardless of poll results, I suspect a good portion of the users here will hop on the bittorrent bandwagon and upgrade ASAP. They don't make shiny new UI's for nothing y'know.

[NeoSNightmarE]

I think Longhorn will be great because Ms may have dropped all their other features but the DRM in the OS is still there screwing with all your files which is exactly what users want.

Warning: There maybe a wee bit of sarcasm in the above statement.

You have no idea how much the DRM on Windows got to me. I got some legit files that were regged to a certain username and it wouldn't let me share them with my laptop. Now if that's not annoying I don't know what is. And we're talking about a good 300 files too. I think I still have them on my external HDD for a future prodject. It was so stupid.

](*,)=me after about 3 hours of tinkering.

[brim4brim]

Regardless of poll results, I suspect a good portion of the users here will hop on the bittorrent bandwagon and upgrade ASAP. They don't make shiny new UI's for nothing y'know.

I don't agree with this, I see no reason especially if a user has XP to get Longhorn, even Ms have said they aren't expecting that level of sales plus bittorrent downloads don't count towards Ms $$$ and are illegal and should not be encouraged on a Linux forum.

The new UI will require a huge amount of processor power and the latest graphics cards from around now on your machine. Otherwise you'll just be running the XP UI with a new black look which can be downloaded as a theme for XP anyway. Not to mention the latest OS from Ms always gets the most attacks so XP will probably be safer once Ms move on.

[Kyral]

What? No "Will make Linux look even better than it does now" option?

[brim4brim]

You have no idea how much the DRM on Windows got to me. I got some legit files that were regged to a certain username and it wouldn't let me share them with my laptop. Now if that's not annoying I don't know what is. And we're talking about a good 300 files too. I think I still have them on my external HDD for a future prodject. It was so stupid.

](*,)=me after about 3 hours of tinkering.

Then you won't like longhorn. I heard a rumour going round in Ms forums that it scans your hard drive and attaches DRM to the files that don't have it.

Talk about working for the companies instead of the people. Something similar to what happened to you happened to my friend. He has all the CD's but he doesn't want to have to re-encode everything. In his case he reformatted the computer but the DRM wouldn't let him play it in the new copy of windows. If this is the case Longhorn is a great way to screw you into messing up your music collection again and again and again! That's what every user wants right? \\:D/

[dcraven]

plus bittorrent downloads don't count towards Ms $$$ and are illegal and should not be encouraged on a Linux forum.


Oh I'm not encouraging it. In fact I wish it couldn't happen. I'm just assuming that it'll be aquired the same way as that XP CD was that is sitting on your desk :) (I don't mean to point directly at you brim4brim, I'm generalizing, but you know what I'm saying).

The "something different" is a strong lure for tweak users. Especially the ones with that new Pokemon camera that doesn't quite work right in Linux. Once the boot into Longhorn and it automatically detects and erases their images on the camera, they'll be hooked.

As for the DRM, I can't imagine it'll be as bad as I've read or heard. I can't even fathom the people dealing with that stuff. There will be a disable checkbutton or something no doubt, or a published registry hack maybe. I know we (North Americans are relatively ignorant (generalizing again), but I can't help but find it hard to believe that even we wouldn't stomp our feet over that. If DRM the way it's predicted is the case, then there somehow will be no way around it for us I suspect.

[Kvark]

Regardless of poll results, I suspect a good portion of the users here will hop on the bittorrent bandwagon and upgrade ASAP. They don't make shiny new UI's for nothing y'know.

I think that even if copying non-free software without licence is something the wast majority of the windows users do. Linux users are generally more willing to accept restricitve licences because they know there is a free alternative they can turn to if it's not worth the price. ...but thats just a general guess.

[poofyhairguy]

Regardless of poll results, I suspect a good portion of the users here will hop on the bittorrent bandwagon and upgrade ASAP. They don't make shiny new UI's for nothing y'know.

Nope...I plan to watch video demos and copy whats happening in xcompmgr.

[WildTangent]

ive been trying out build 4074 and 5048 for a couple days now. im impressed with the progress so far, but it still hasnt done anything ground breaking. the new themes look decent, but i doubt theyll make it into the final version. but only time will tell. i like build 4074 much more than 5048, it has more of the features promised for the final version, such as the sidebar, which although seemed clunky at first, i can definately see its merit. build 5048 removed the new welcome screen, as well as the sidebar, but it has some of the features not in 4074, such as the disk drive space indicator, as well as a better looking theme, called Aero

screenshot of build 5048 (http://longlivemarneus.serveftp.net/Justin/longhornscreen.JPG)

i can post a screen of 4074 upon request (havent made one yet :P)

EDIT: i honestly dont know why there seems to be so much M$ hating going on. none of you have even tried it yet, and theres still a long time until its release, so you have no idea what will stay or go, or be added. i myself, will be following its development closely, because i see potential

-Wild

[brim4brim]

Oh I'm not encouraging it. In fact I wish it couldn't happen. I'm just assuming that it'll be aquired the same way as that XP CD was that is sitting on your desk :) (I don't mean to point directly at you brim4brim, I'm generalizing, but you know what I'm saying).

The "something different" is a strong lure for tweak users. Especially the ones with that new Pokemon camera that doesn't quite work right in Linux. Once the boot into Longhorn and it automatically detects and erases their images on the camera, they'll be hooked.

As for the DRM, I can't imagine it'll be as bad as I've read or heard. I can't even fathom the people dealing with that stuff. There will be a disable checkbutton or something no doubt, or a published registry hack maybe. I know we (North Americans are relatively ignorant (generalizing again), but I can't help but find it hard to believe that even we wouldn't stomp our feet over that. If DRM the way it's predicted is the case, then there somehow will be no way around it for us I suspect.

I don't mind if you point at me, I've a perfectly legal copy of XP Pro that came with my Dell. I don't use it for anything other than games anymore but it's there.

I know there'll be a work around but when I have an OS that doesn't require it why should I care? The only users left using windows if the DRM is as bad as they say is people that still believe Linux can't be used by average people and people who can't afford a Mac.

[Leif]

i honestly dont know why there seems to be so much M$ hating going on. none of you have even tried it yet, and theres still a long time until its release, so you have no idea what will stay or go, or be added. i myself, will be following its development closely, because i see potential


I agree. I understand this is a linux forum and ms bashing is to be expected, but could it at least be limited to things people have seen ? I have no intention of switching to longhorn, but I don't think it will suck. I will play around with it to see whether it has any good ideas.

[primeirocrime]

I think that all the illfeelings about Microsoft and the Windows product line comes from ...well from their past. I liked 3.11 but from then on it just started to be two steps forward one step back and another to the side and a whole lot of tentacles grabbing everything. Autocracy sucks. That is why microsoft has no love from the most part [at least in gnu/linux Foss oriented forums].

I just tend to think of them like a big fat juicy stake with some nice chunky roasted potatoes and a coke. It tastes good but will kill you in the end. Since I'm a vegetarian I stay away from the stake and also from to much sugar diets. Linux is more like seitan with beens, lettuce and tomato and red hot chilli peppers [raw] followed by a nice laphroaig (http://www.laphroaig.com) or belgium beer.

Also the aero look and that more toned down grey look is akin to steal the looks of JDE and Gnome.

[NeoSNightmarE]

I would like to state that the thing that I was getting on was the whole DRM issue. I completely disagree with the whole concept of that. And having read that stuff on other forums among other sources outside of forums, I think that it is just going to destroy their image even more in the non-windows communities whether it be Mac or Linux it will be the same aggrivation with them.

My personal issue with Microsoft as a company is that they are not for the user but about how to make the most money by making choices that make the shareholders happy because it rises the stock value. And not to even touch the Claria subject that is really suspicious imo. I look at it as the worst kept secret that there are monitor programs in XP and for the most part, the public doesn't care. And I'm going to leave it at that.

[WildTangent]

And not to even touch the Claria subject that is really suspicious imo.
its gone past suspicious, M$ downgraded their detection rules for their ant-spyware program so that i wont detect claria products

-Wild

[brim4brim]

its gone past suspicious, M$ downgraded their detection rules for their ant-spyware program so that i wont detect claria products

-Wild
Not quite, Claria products are detected, Ms just says you don't need to remove them which is just as bad really that it says they aren't a threat.

[NeoSNightmarE]

Not quite, Claria products are detected, Ms just says you don't need to remove them which is just as bad really that it says they aren't a threat.

I think I saw that article on here somewhere or maybe it was on another forum that Microsoft did this with the anti spyware beta after the update was released and i believe I have heard something about other changes that may happen in the future because Claria and Gator and some other adware are all connected so it was like a package deal. That's all speculation but I wouldn't be surprised. I would still like to see a forensic investigation on the Longhorn operating system because I can't see why they wouldn't use Claria to their advantage no matter what they say on paper and in interviews. But then again I'm not a big fan of corporations...

[professor_chaos]

I wanted to answer both B and D.

I think it will be a lot like every other windows OS upgrade (an much of the windows software), better graphics, no real improvement in features execpt distracting odds and ends, that in the end will leave it fat and bloated and running slower (unless you by a newer and better computer. )

I'm a geek (not nearly as much a some of you, yeah, you know who you are). I like new toys. I like playing with new technology. But there is something to be said for a solid/working system. Or whatever......

[WildTangent]

this is the kind of thing ive been talking about, changes that know one knows about.

http://www.tomshardware.com/column/20050711/index.html

i just found out about these 2 features today, and i think theyre very promising. i guarantee ill find use for both of them

-Wild

[darkmatter]

The poll missed the "Updates will ship with Gator, coool!' option ;-)

[aragorn2909]

this is the kind of thing ive been talking about, changes that know one knows about.

http://www.tomshardware.com/column/20050711/index.html

i just found out about these 2 features today, and i think theyre very promising. i guarantee ill find use for both of them

-Wild

From Tom's Hardware Guide
The system also retains individual and incredibly granular scores on each and every subsystem, and will instruct software components to activate, modify their own settings, or turn themselves off in order to optimize the software for the hardware.

If I accept the above comment as completely innocent and harmless (which I won't) although this automates things and might make things more "user-friendly", it will remove users even further from the workings of their computers. A common sentiment around here is that the average MS user is basically computer illiterate, wait until the ones who know something don't have to think about whats going on inside anymore!

However, if I take the above comment like I do, this is SO far out of my comfort zone, for one big reason. It takes control away from the user and puts it in the hands of companies that have done NOTHING to deserve that level of control over MY property.

As for the survey, sorry, not really interested in what Longhorn will be like, I've only got an XP 2000 and 512 ram. Besides, I've got this Ubuntu itch that I just can't seem to scratch, and I've just gotten over the 15+ year Windows rash. ;-)

[poptones]

Wow, that really sounds cool! Now my computer can compare itself against all those other computers out there and deliver ads to me urging me to give it an upgrade so it can better compete!
A common sentiment around here is that the average MS user is basically computer illiterate, wait until the ones who know something don't have to think about whats going on inside anymore!
I can build a 450hp jag or I can buy a 450hp jag. Either way winning races depends on how you drive it, not on who built it. I don;t hold with being snobbish about such things - a computer is just a tool. You should not have to be a 'trained professional" just to earn the "priviledge" of using one.

I also don't see any of it taking control away from the user. I mean, not unless there is no "off" button. If I run Bastille on my desktop it will make all sorts of suggestions to me and even, if I ask it, change security settings and reconfigure software to help make it more secure. That's not taking control from me, it's just me making use of a tool constructed by other experienced specialists.

[aragorn2909]

Wow, that really sounds cool! Now my computer can compare itself against all those other computers out there and deliver ads to me urging me to give it an upgrade so it can better compete!
.

Or it can simply not allow certain pieces of software to run, forcing you to upgrade in order to "better compete"

I can build a 450hp jag or I can buy a 450hp jag. Either way winning races depends on how you drive it, not on who built it. I don;t hold with being snobbish about such things - a computer is just a tool. You should not have to be a 'trained professional" just to earn the "priviledge" of using one.

Agreed, you shouldn't have to be a "trained professional" to "earn the priviledge" of driving that 450hp jag, but you need a driver's license to get behind the wheel. Now I never claimed that what I referred to as "a common sentiment" is a right sentiment, it just appears to be a commonly held belief. Observation only

I also don't see any of it taking control away from the user. I mean, not unless there is no "off" button. If I run Bastille on my desktop it will make all sorts of suggestions to me and even, if I ask it, change security settings and reconfigure software to help make it more secure. That's not taking control from me, it's just me making use of a tool constructed by other experienced specialists.

Will Bastille shut itself down unless you upgrade? Will it shut other pieces of software/hardware down unless you upgrade? No, because you control it. You don't have to accept any of its "suggestions" at all.

...and will instruct software components to activate, modify their own settings, or turn themselves off..
Is this Me controlling my tool, or my tool controlling me?

[poptones]

Or it can simply not allow certain pieces of software to run, forcing you to upgrade in order to "better compete"

Odd how I missed that part. Perhaps you could point it out?

Sorry, much as I hate microsoft I just cannot see how anyone can make this "feature" into anything but what it is - just another way to annoy the user with adverts and feed the MS marketing machine.

Agreed, you shouldn't have to be a "trained professional" to "earn the priviledge" of driving that 450hp jag, but you need a driver's license to get behind the wheel.

A desktop ain't a dashboard. I'm not likely to kill anyone by crashing the PC in my living room.

[aragorn2909]

Odd how I missed that part. Perhaps you could point it out?
sure
...and will instruct software components to activate, modify their own settings, or turn themselves off... Or turn themselves off

Sorry, much as I hate microsoft I just cannot see how anyone can make this "feature" into anything but what it is - just another way to annoy the user with adverts and feed the MS marketing machine.Sure, if you choose to accept the statement from Tom's Hardware at face value and completely innocent, which, as I stated in my first post in this thread, I do not.
A desktop ain't a dashboard. I'm not likely to kill anyone by crashing the PC in my living room.The 450hp jag was your analogy.

[poptones]

Again... I see no place it says this is a feature that cannot be disabled or otherwise controlled with preferences. Do you? It is illogical to jump to such baseless conspiratorial conclusions.

[aragorn2909]

Again... I see no place it says this is a feature that cannot be disabled or otherwise controlled with preferences. Do you? It is illogical to jump to such baseless conspiratorial conclusions.

Nor do I, but I also remember a certain MS app that was (next to) impossible to either delete or disable, and an Anti-Trust suit was brought against them. My assumption is neither baseless nor conspiratorial, in fact, I think it has been validated by MS' actions in the past. That, however, does not even bring into the conversation the effect of the infamous Fritz-chip, and how something like this will tie into it. Baseless? Conspiratorial? No, just realistic.

[poptones]

Sorry, that just makes oyu sound even more conspiratorial. That "fritz chip" is part of DRM which helps sell software - content. It has nothing at all to do with hardware and everything to do with selling even MORE software. Intentionally crippling their own product in order to sell someone else's product is a ridiculously conspiratorial notion. Methinks your tinfoil hat has drawn a bit tight.

[wrtrdood]

You left one choice out:

* Who Cares?


I haven't been impressed by any of the garbage coming out of Redmond. I steered as clear of XP as I could (though I'm forced now to use it at work) and could care less what their next stillborn child will be.

Long Live Linux!



... especially Ubuntu ...

[aragorn2909]

Methinks your tinfoil hat has drawn a bit tight.Nice [-X
That "fritz chip" is part of DRM which helps sell software Wrong, DRM, or Digital Rights Management has nothing to do with "selling software". DRM, from the Wikipedia, is an umbrella term referring to any of several technical methods used to control or restrict the use of digital media content on electronic devices with such technologies installed. The media most often restricted by DRM techniques include music, visual artwork, and movies...Digital Rights Management, as its name implies, applies only to digital media Nothing about "selling software" there, just "control" and "restrict"
It has nothing at all to do with hardware and everything to do with selling even MORE software.Wrong. The Fritz Chip has everything to do with NGSCB, formerly Palladium, which is MS' new "trusted computing architecture". NGSCB from the Wikipedia Opponents characterise it as an attempt to control the market for computer hardware and softwarePlease note hardware and software. I wonder if all of the above mentioned "opponents" are also sporting ill-fitting metal headgear?

[poptones]

Wrong, DRM, or Digital Rights Management has nothing to do with "selling software".

Duh! "Selling software" is the entire reason for its existence! DRM is an intiative of corporations as a means of protecting their software from unauthorized duplication. Why do you think they care about that "duplication" in the first place? Because they want to sell more of it.

Please note hardware and software. I wonder if all of the above mentioned "opponents" are also sporting ill-fitting metal headgear?

Most of them, yes. They tend to gather around places like wikipedia. That was the point I made just a page back. Ignorance and FUD. But that really has very little to do with your nonsensical conspiracy theories about Microsoft deliberately crippling its own ability to compete in the operating system arena simply for the benefit of pressuring people into buying hardware which they did not make. DRM is not a crippling of infrastructure; disabling otherwise functional systems solely for the purpose of generating sale of a new video graphics card is, and you'd have to be a truly insane conspiracy theorist to believe Microsoft is that stupid.

[aragorn2909]

Duh! "Selling software" is the entire reason for its existence!Wrong. DRM is a means by which to protect Digital Media. Music, Visual Art, Movies, etc. If you wish to throw in software, so be it, but software is not the "entire reason for its existence". I wonder if all of the above mentioned "opponents" are also sporting ill-fitting metal headgear?

Most of them, yes. They tend to gather around places like wikipedia. That was the point I made just a page back. Ignorance and FUD. But that really has very little to do with your nonsensical conspiracy theoriesNot enough for you to call me names and discount my opinion, we've moved on to discounting the whole of wikipedia? "They tend to gather around places like wikipedia." And I'm the conspiracy theorist? Come on poptones, these forums here are about open discussion, not for name calling or attempting to beat other members into submission. If we can keep the personal attacks down, I'll move on. crippling its own ability...simply for the benefit of pressuring people into buying hardware Are you saying this isn't even possible? Impossible? Just because an ostrich buries it's head in the sand at the approach of danger, doesn't mean the danger has passed. ...and you'd have to be a truly insane conspiracy theorist to believe...Again with the personal attacks.

[poptones]

Wrong. DRM is a means by which to protect Digital Media. Music, Visual Art, Movies, etc. If you wish to throw in software, so be it, but software is not the "entire reason for its existence".

I do not know where you live but here in the US "content" is also commonly known as "software." Games, movies, music, programs - if it's digital media it's commonly called "software."

And yes, DRM is completely about protecting it - from copy. and that is entirely a matter of protecting profit. Or do you have some sort conspiracy theory about corporations planning to segregate the delivery of knowledge along social or racial lines?

crippling its own ability...simply for the benefit of pressuring people into buying hardware...

Are you saying this isn't even possible? Impossible? Just because an ostrich buries it's head in the sand at the approach of danger, doesn't mean the danger has passed.

Just because you believe everyone is out to get you doesn't mean they are.

Impossible? Of course not. Incredibly stupid beyond all precedent - and by the most profitable company on the face of the earth? Not bloody likely.

...and you'd have to be a truly insane conspiracy theorist to believe...

Again with the personal attacks.

Only if you choose to take it that way. So I'm guessing that you really do believe that nonsense?

Come on... such blind hatred just makes one look stupid. Corporations are greedy sociopaths, not demons.

[aragorn2909]

Look, My entire point, in fact, my only point, was that the possibility existed, for MS, by means of the afforementioned "feature" in Longhorn, to exercise an unprecedented amout of control over users and their systems. Whether its improbable or not that they will use it in the terms you seem to think I believe they will, is of no consequence. The possibility exists.
"...when you have excluded the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth."

[poptones]

The same technology - much like TCPA and Palladium as well - also allows the user new controls over the system and information housed there without having to master a technical manual. But your comments did not make that point as well. It was obviously leaning in only a single direction and, because of this one dimensionality, absurd.

This is the entire point I have been trying to make. Demonizing Microsoft doesn't make one look cool, but only deranged (to whatever degree) with paranoia.

[MetalMusicAddict]

Ahh... You kids and your crazy flamebait threads. :)