Why the hate on Vista?

[Zellio]

The drm scare is overblown, since all it has drm on is hd stuff, which would be drm'd on any os that uses hd-dvd or blu-ray...

It's now faster then xp for gaming, with the newest patches...

Yes, it does take 2 gigs of ram, but that's really all vista expects to run well, and with todays ram prices...

I understand this is the Ubuntu forums, and if I was to go to the microsoft forums they'd probably hate Ubuntu, but really, can't we view the pros and cons of something without completely bashing it?

They are really made for different things, so I dunno how you can compare them. I use Ubuntu for web surfing, I use Vista for gaming, and any sort of design, it works well that way... I love both and couldn't do without either...

[blah blah blah]

It's not free of course.

[jiminycricket]

They are really made for different things, so I dunno how you can compare them. I use Ubuntu for web surfing, I use Vista for gaming, and any sort of design, it works well that way... I love both and couldn't do without either...

It's definitely not just hddvd, it's in everything, hardware (raising price, lowering ability for open source 3d drivers because they won't release specs or drivers due to Protected Video/Audio, lower quality sound drivers as we saw in Microsoft dropping hardware DirectSound), software, multimedia apps. It's also a huge bother because if you use Media Center, cable companies these days insist on DRM'ing *every* show, even when they're not supposed to. There are news articles you can search for this on at Google News.

"what can be used for bad, will be used for bad".

[vexorian]

The drm scare is overblown, since all it has drm on is hd stuff, which would be drm'd on any os that uses hd-dvd or blu-ray...

It's now faster then xp for gaming, with the newest patches...

Yes, it does take 2 gigs of ram, but that's really all vista expects to run well, and with todays ram prices...

I understand this is the Ubuntu forums, and if I was to go to the microsoft forums they'd probably hate Ubuntu, but really, can't we view the pros and cons of something without completely bashing it?

They are really made for different things, so I dunno how you can compare them. I use Ubuntu for web surfing, I use Vista for gaming, and any sort of design, it works well that way... I love both and couldn't do without either...
I noticed a tendency on microsoft towards removing the control I had over my own computer, It is not that much that I hate vista it is more like I prefer keeping control of my stuff. The new DRM "idea" is really pretty lame, I don't intend to waste system resources and performance to keep some companies happy, you see I would like to use those resources for my own advantage.

[Adamant1988]

The drm scare is overblown, since all it has drm on is hd stuff, which would be drm'd on any os that uses hd-dvd or blu-ray...

It's now faster then xp for gaming, with the newest patches...

Yes, it does take 2 gigs of ram, but that's really all vista expects to run well, and with todays ram prices...

I understand this is the Ubuntu forums, and if I was to go to the microsoft forums they'd probably hate Ubuntu, but really, can't we view the pros and cons of something without completely bashing it?

They are really made for different things, so I dunno how you can compare them. I use Ubuntu for web surfing, I use Vista for gaming, and any sort of design, it works well that way... I love both and couldn't do without either...

Well, on some levels you are absolutely right, and on others, you're absolutely wrong. Vista and Ubuntu serve no particular purposes in and of themselves, rather than to be an operating system. You will extend the abilities of your computer using applications, on both systems. They are absolutely comparable, to an extent.

I haven't used Vista myself, but I'm planning on it and I'll probably get to that later in this post.

Firstly, whenever you step into a free software forum of any kind and draw a comparison with closed software you WILL get a flame war eventually, it's just going to happen. Both sides will start bashing both products and nothing productive is said at all.

Now, a lot of people on this forum can be fairly level headed when called upon to do so, a lot of them couldn't be level headed if they were to be struck forcefully with a shovel. You get all types, the same as on Windows forums. I have explained Ubuntu on a Windows forum and I was thanked for enlightening them to information they didn't have. It's an issue of the people again.

Again, the issue lay with the people when I say that some people just FLAT OUT HATE Microsoft and anything they touch. These people are some of the ones most responsible for the recent 'patent paranoia' floating about the web. These people will do whatever it takes to sell to you that Microsoft/proprietary/patent /whatever is evil even if it includes lying to you or giving you heavily opinionated information as fact.

There is also a stark contrast in philosophy between the two major camps. I had a good friend of mine who is pretty high up the Ubuntu community say to me once "There are sometimes I wish I didn't care about software, and I could just use it". Which is what happens for a lot of us, I think. Our software becomes a part of who we are, if you will. Our decision to choose one distribution, etc. over another personalizes it to us, and we grow connections with the software, and the community that produces it. The community and the software become attached. This means that (even though they may not admit it) when you come in here and say "Windows is better" or something along those lines, you have just borderline insulted some of the forum members. Hence the flame war.

People using Windows, however, do not typically feel any great sense of attachment to their operating system rather than a strictly practical one, "My programs run on it" etc. But, when you go into a Windows forum, you're already entering a more highly specialized environment, the more technologically inclined will be there and some of them develop an attachment in different ways to the OS, but it's always a product and never very personal. These people will usually 'hate' ubuntu out of unfamiliarity.

I don't see this ever really changing, to be honest, until a distribution comes up out of nowhere that isn't a community oriented thing like Ubuntu, and is a product, rather than a personal piece of software. Personally, as of late, I've been considering going to give Vista a shot myself, because the politics of the community and the irrationality of the people involved in it have started to sour my experience using the software. The point I'm trying to make with this post is that you're asking groups with completely different perspectives on software to agree on the merits of something that, in their perspective, is wrong/bad/evil? You may find a small amount of people willing to do that, but most will do as they always do.

[juxtaposed]

Yes, it does take 2 gigs of ram, but that's really all vista expects to run well, and with todays ram prices...

Sure, you can get 2GB RAM for under 100$, but why would you ever want to need that just for an operating system?

It has no advantages that I would consider significant, except looking good.

Again, the issue lay with the people when I say that some people just FLAT OUT HATE Microsoft and anything they touch. These people are some of the ones most responsible for the recent 'patent paranoia' floating about the web.

People that hate anything microsoft arn't the least bit scared of the patent thing.

That's just people who don't understand it that are scared.

[Adamant1988]

Sure, you can get 2GB RAM for under 100$, but why would you ever want to need that just for an operating system?

It has no advantages that I would consider significant, except looking good.



People that hate anything microsoft arn't the least bit scared of the patent thing.

That's just people who don't understand it that are scared.

It's been my experience that those two are one and the same.

[juxtaposed]

It's been my experience that those two are one and the same.

I see the "hate anything microsoft" as being the open source purists, the ones who say GNU/Linux, debate the wording of free software, open source, etc, and like the FSF and RMS alot.

The people who don't understand the patent thing are the "liek omg, that means linux is dead forever, lets be all dramatic" type people.

[LightB]

Vista is good for some people. Windows ME was also good to some people. :D

In general though, Vista is plain crud.

It's now faster then xp for gaming, with the newest patches...

The new video card might be the cause of the speed difference. :D

[dasunst3r]

I have personally seen mixed reactions with respect to Windows Vista. While some like it, others are clearly annoyed by UAC. I have also seen more Macs on campus, some of which made the switch because of Vista. In any case, I have yet to make the switch because I don't see any benefit -- I spend only 1% of my time on Windows.

[Adamant1988]

I see the "hate anything microsoft" as being the open source purists, the ones who say GNU/Linux, debate the wording of free software, open source, etc, and like the FSF and RMS alot.

The people who don't understand the patent thing are the "liek omg, that means linux is dead forever, lets be all dramatic" type people.

At the same time, the anti-microsoft/proprietary group does a lot of the things you say, in addition to dramatizing it. These people make me pine to be enslaved...

[johnny4north]

hate is a dark word for a dark OS like windows. i dislike the company's conduct. i simply prefer to purchase a nice 17" or cheap 19" LCD like here - http://compuvest.com/Items.jsp?cid=30&sid=311&p3=LCD&st=&dt=ASC&pg=9 :)

[francisco_athens]

I see the "hate anything microsoft" as being the open source purists, the ones who say GNU/Linux, debate the wording of free software, open source, etc, and like the FSF and RMS alot.

The people who don't understand the patent thing are the "liek omg, that means linux is dead forever, lets be all dramatic" type people.

The "hate anything microsoft" group are likely those who are still using (or forced to use at work) MS products and are frustrated from the experience. Most of the folks I know who use GNU/Linux don't seem to waste much energy hating. Doesn't hate generally stem from ignorance? If one does not understand something and does not agree then it's seems easy to hate, rather than take the effort to gain understanding. I believe those that are proponents of the FSF, GNU, Linux etc, understand very well what they are disagreeing with, and not simply hating.

One might think its trivial to "debate the wording", but such debate is the basis of understanding, (the debates of Socrates are an example of this). You can be sure there are a well funded army of lawyers debating and defining the latest MS EULA very carefully. Why shouldn't we?

[kevinlyfellow]

While you say that drm layer is overblown, I think its more about setting a precedent. It has no (benevolent) purpose in the operating system, it should not be there. It'd be nice if they let users turn it off, but I doubt that that is the case. It's my computer, I should be able to do what I want with it, thank you.

Edit: I just wanted to say (although very unimportant), I have used vista briefly here or there and there is one great new feature... you can save your minesweeper games!

[jaybuntu]

I think most of the items mentioned here are just symptoms. I'm a certified Windows user going way back (release of 3.0) and I've always accepted the tradeoffs MS has made. Even 5 or 6 years ago when the linux community was talking about all the bloat in Windows and how Linux would run faster that wasn't true once you actually installed Linux to do what Windows did. But that's not true anymore. The current distros are rock solid and outperform Windows while providing equivalent functionality. Then along comes Vista, the OS that had such great promise for really improving things when it was first announced. Unfortunately, a lot of the interesting stuff was stripped out, Aero looks kinda cool but is a processing hog and doesn't really add any functionality, there are a bevy of compatibilty issues and it needs a significantly powerful computer to run on. Of the half dozen people (that only use Windows) I know that have tried Vista only one has found it acceptable. The other 5 have wiped their new machines and gone back to XP. I don't think it's hate, as much as it is dissapointment with the direction MS is heading with the WIndows.

[kevinlyfellow]

I think most of the items mentioned here are just symptoms. I'm a certified Windows user going way back (release of 3.0) and I've always accepted the tradeoffs MS has made. Even 5 or 6 years ago when the linux community was talking about all the bloat in Windows and how Linux would run faster that wasn't true once you actually installed Linux to do what Windows did. But that's not true anymore. The current distros are rock solid and outperform Windows while providing equivalent functionality. Then along comes Vista, the OS that had such great promise for really improving things when it was first announced. Unfortunately, a lot of the interesting stuff was stripped out, Aero looks kinda cool but is a processing hog and doesn't really add any functionality, there are a bevy of compatibilty issues and it needs a significantly powerful computer to run on. Of the half dozen people (that only use Windows) I know that have tried Vista only one has found it acceptable. The other 5 have wiped their new machines and gone back to XP. I don't think it's hate, as much as it is dissapointment with the direction MS is heading with the WIndows.

A very insightful answer! I think that you hit the nail on the head.

[leibowitz]

I use Vista for gaming

And I remember those heavy hardcore gamers playing with win2000/98 when XP was there, just to get more performance.

I don't understand why oh why you would drop 2Go ram to your OS when all you want is Games.

Just buy a console, any will be fine for this.


And if you really want to play PC games (definitively better), then don't use Vista.

You can't say you run Vista for games without being silly

[jrusso2]

Something is wrong when the operating system costs more then the computer. Lets face it Vista is just warmed over and bloated XP.

Not worth paying a lot of money for. Its riddled with DRM that takes away your freedom.

Vista also spies on its users, and assumes they are criminals with their Windows Genuine Advantage.

Microsoft as a company has not respect for its users.

[karellen]

While you say that drm layer is overblown, I think its more about setting a precedent. It has no (benevolent) purpose in the operating system, it should not be there. It'd be nice if they let users turn it off, but I doubt that that is the case. It's my computer, I should be able to do what I want with it, thank you.

Edit: I just wanted to say (although very unimportant), I have used vista briefly here or there and there is one great new feature... you can save your minesweeper games!

:lolflag:
yes, this explains all those billions invested in vista's development
:)

[M$LOL]

I've heard this argument "oh, well RAM is so cheap that 2GB costs nothing, what's wrong with Vista needing 2GB?

I'll tell you why. That's like buying another desk because your current one is messy. It's solving the wrong problem. Not to mention that it's an appalling waste of money and bad mentality to actually go out and buy two gigs of ram just because an OS wants it.

[juxtaposed]

The "hate anything microsoft" group are likely those who are still using (or forced to use at work) MS products and are frustrated from the experience.

Yea.

I need windows for two things, and it is really frusterating to do anything. I absolutly despise it. Linux's problems pale in comparison to windows' problems in my opinion.

Doesn't hate generally stem from ignorance?

Sometimes, but ignorance is subjective.

Everyone is ignorant in someone elses opinion.

[EricWiz]

I cut my teeth on MS OS's starting with DOS 5 and on up to XP.

I have not tried Vista yet, other than to poke around a bit on one of the machines at BestBuy. But, to the point of the thread, I don't think it's a hate on Vista as much as it is a dissapointment in it. Vista was very late in coming out first off, then many of the new and great thiongs slated for the OS was removed. Then, to top it off, many of the bells and whistles it does have you can only get in the supermega version.

If we can stop there for a sec, that aggravates me as well as plenty of others out there. Why so many versions?

Now, add to all of this that you need to purchase new hardware to run it and you get why there is so much frustration and dissapointment.

You'll have to purchase new keys to reinstall as well as you do with XP and, let's face it, you really need to reinstall once in a while with windows.

Now add DRM and Hardware driver issues the fact that XP will be phased out earlier than planned etc etc and I think the picture is becoming pretty clear.

To be honest, I am thankful. I had 'played' a bit with a couple of linux distros in the past, most for entertainment value (I am a geek at heart). But, with all that Vista brings, coupled with the issues I have had with XP, I decided I would not only not get Vista, but that I would need to find a daily use alternate OS. So, I thank MS for being the catalyst that drove me to Ubuntu.

[smoker]

They are really made for different things, so I dunno how you can compare them. I use Ubuntu for web surfing, I use Vista for gaming, and any sort of design, it works well that way... I love both and couldn't do without either...

exactly! they are made for different things, different reasons. i don't hate ms or vista, win2000 was, and still is to a certain extent, the best os that microsoft produced. i briefly tried vista to see what all the fuss was about, but it had nothing really to interest me, and loads that turned me right off, so i bid it goodbye. i don't do much gaming, ubuntu does everything i need my pc to do, and i need not worry about eulas, wga/ssp, drm, or if my hardware needs upgraded.

anyway, sounds like you have the best of both worlds, using both,

cheers:D

[insane_alien]

anything that requires 2 GB of RAM without any obvious reason is suspicious in my book. there is no reason for it. ubuntu is capable of doing everything vista can do on 512MB of RAM (probably less)

[leibowitz]

Why so many versions?

Perfect discrimination. That is an economic strategy to get more $$$ from the users. Because some can't afford the common price, we cut down the product to get a little bit of money from them aswell, and also for those who have the money we create an ultimate package of the same product. Just to get more $$$$ from one product.

Perfect discrimination of price.


As before, the monopolist would like to charge each person a different price. An example is the experimental Coke machine that senses the body temperature of the person in front of it and adjusts the price of the Coke accordingly. Another example is (arguably) university tuition - some people pay full tuition wile others receive “scholarships” of varying amounts so that each person pays a different price. (Arguably) each person pays as much as they are willing to pay.

Source: http://www.carleton.ca/vpac/20000403/tsld020.htm

I studied that on my economic course. That was cool.

[ankursethi]

I sort of grew up in the Linux environment. I was exposed to computers with Win95 and got on well with them. Then came 98 with not a big change. Then Me, then 2000. I got on well with all of these. It wasn't until later (when I got my own computer) that I realized what maintaining these beasts meant.

I got my own computer in 2003. Needless to say, it had XP installed on it. After an year of what can only be called a frustrating experience, I switched to Linux at the end of 2004. I picked up in no time and here I am :-)

What was it that made me switch? On Windows, it was easier for me to get support, there was more hardware support, no messing about with codecs and video drivers. So what went wrong? Simple. Microsoft has produced great software like Visual Studio and Office (upto 2003, I'd say), but in the OS department they truly suck. Their design decisions seem to be completely arbritary and each app seems to follow it's own way of doing thigs. For me, Linux is just more mature and more organized. It works more by evolution, less by design.

I think this is what makes people "hate" Windows. Technical users that care about standards and uniformity like the UNIX philosophy. And then there's the RMS and FSF camp, who hate all propreitary software by nature. Some people hate Wndows because they like to tinker and Windows doesn't allow them to do it, some hate it because they're into servers and automation.

Different people hate Windows for different reasons. All of them stem from the fact the Microsoft's business model and design principles are not upto the mark.

[Dr. C]

exactly! they are made for different things, different reasons. i don't hate ms or vista, win2000 was, and still is to a certain extent, the best os that microsoft produced. i briefly tried vista to see what all the fuss was about, but it had nothing really to interest me, and loads that turned me right off, so i bid it goodbye. i don't do much gaming, ubuntu does everything i need my pc to do, and i need not worry about eulas, wga/ssp, drm, or if my hardware needs upgraded.

anyway, sounds like you have the best of both worlds, using both,

cheers:D

The hate for vista is much more than the "GNU/Linux is good" "Windows is bad" debate since Vista is a serious downgrade form most people from Windows XP. The last time this happened was the downgrade from Windows 98 SE to Windows ME. Why?

1) A fair amount of Windows XP applications will not run on VIsta. In fact I would not be surprised to find Windows XP application that will work with Wine or CrossOver Office in Ubuntu but will not work with Vista. Quickbooks comes to mind here.

2) A fair amount of peripherals that work with Windows XP will not work with Vista. Again as in (1) for the most part these peripherals will work with Ubuntu or will work with Ubuntu by loading the XP driver with Ndiswrapper (the last option is not possible with Vista)

3) Vista will block a lot of "premium content" that will work perfectly fine with Windows XP or Ubuntu. The DRM in Vista affects a lot more than allow playback of HD-DVD and Bluray. It blocks fair use for all sorts of content that works fine on Windows XP or Ubuntu.

This is why you see boxes of Windows XP taking the retail shelf space that used to be taken by Vista, or Dell starting to offer Windows XP again or Vista computers getting returned. I have had more than one person, looking at a new computer, come to me asking for options for an operating system, with one requirement I do not want Vista. . The options for the most part are Ubuntu, and in some cases Windows XP or Mac OS X.

One thing I will say about Vista, It has given me a new appreciation of Windows XP, Windows 2000, Windows 98 SE, Windows NT4, and even MS-DOS 6.22 / Windows 3.1 or Windows for Workgroups 3.11

The future is Ubuntu and GNU/Linux. For compatibility with the past I will go with Windows XP pro, and in some cases one or more of Windows 2000, Windows 98 SE, Windows NT4, or MS-DOS 6.22 with Windows 3.1 or Windows for Workgroups 3.11

[joe.turion64x2]

anything that requires 2 GB of RAM without any obvious reason is suspicious in my book. there is no reason for it. ubuntu is capable of doing everything vista can do on 512MB of RAM (probably less)
256MB actually.

[zero244]

I dont think its really even about money, though Vista is double the price it should be and with all the other issues with Vista I doubt I would buy it if it was half the price.
By supporting Vista you are telling MS we dont care about DRM etc.
I think Activation is a form of harrassment and when they decide to stop supporting a OS that OS will not be able to be activated even if you want to continue to use it. So you are forced to switch or upgrade.
But its a free world you dont have to buy anything......as long as there are alternatives like Linux etc.

[insane_alien]

256MB actually.

i was trying to be kind.

[zipperback]

The DRM scare is NOT overblown and neither is Microsoft deciding they have the right to teminate your access to your computer. Even to the point of denying access to your desktop.

Don't believe me? Watch the Flash based video on their website.
http://www.microsoft.com/partner/media/WGAPartner/WGAPlayPartner.aspx

Click --> http://www.microsoft.com/partner/media/WGAPartner/WGAPlayPartner.aspx

The operating system checks back with Microsoft to verify that it's a valid license and should they decide to terminate your license to run YOUR COMPUTER with that operating system, your access to the system will be limited or denied.

No ability to review the source code for security audit purposes as a private party.

No ability to legally give away copies of it if I want to do so without restriction from Microsoft.

No ability to determine on what hardware I want to make the operating system work with.

The list goes on and on and on.

http://badvista.fsf.org/what-s-wrong-with-microsoft-windows-vista

Click - > http://badvista.fsf.org/what-s-wrong-with-microsoft-windows-vista

Please note that I am not intending this to be a bashing post, you asked me a specific question and I am answering you.




- zipperback


The drm scare is overblown, since all it has drm on is hd stuff, which would be drm'd on any os that uses hd-dvd or blu-ray...

It's now faster then xp for gaming, with the newest patches...

Yes, it does take 2 gigs of ram, but that's really all vista expects to run well, and with todays ram prices...

I understand this is the Ubuntu forums, and if I was to go to the microsoft forums they'd probably hate Ubuntu, but really, can't we view the pros and cons of something without completely bashing it?

They are really made for different things, so I dunno how you can compare them. I use Ubuntu for web surfing, I use Vista for gaming, and any sort of design, it works well that way... I love both and couldn't do without either...

[Adamant1988]

The DRM scare is NOT overblown and neither is Microsoft deciding they have the right to teminate your access to your computer. Even to the point of denying access to your desktop.

The operating system checks back with Microsoft to verify that it's a valid license and should they decide to terminate your license to run YOUR COMPUTER with that operating system, your access to the system will be limited or denied.

Yeah, unfortunately Microsoft is a company that makes money off of it's licenses. I can't help but wonder why they wouldn't want you running free/pirated versions of Vista..

BADVISTA is a terrible site written for no other purpose than to spread FUD. I thought that Microsoft ruled FUD until I saw badvista.

[zipperback]

Yeah, unfortunately Microsoft is a company that makes money off of it's licenses. I can't help but wonder why they wouldn't want you running free/pirated versions of Vista..


You CLEARLY did not watch the video that I gave you the link to on their (microsoft.com) website.

"IF" the license is leaked, stolen, or otherwise used by someone else.
then YOUR right to fully access YOUR computer is gone.

That's basically saying "It's your fault, so you don't have access to your computer".

Again, it's a matter of choice and a matter of freedom.

If for example some person downloads a Vista Key Generator from the Internet, and generates for example a list of license keys and YOUR KEY happens to end up on that list, when MS finds that license key, then YOUR ACCESS is revoked and you no longer have access to YOUR COMPUTER. It doesn't matter that you had nothing to do with it, it matters that they are saying "we know your key is being used by someone else, so YOUR access is revoked." Does it matter that you might be be innocent in regard to this? NO, they don't care. Watch the video.

As for making money.... There are thousands and thousands of organizations that make money with open source software and operating system.

Look at the facts. :popcorn:

- zipperback

[Adamant1988]

You CLEARLY did not watch the video that I gave you the link to on their (microsoft.com) website.

"IF" the license is leaked, stolen, or otherwise used by someone else.
then YOUR right to fully access YOUR computer is gone.

That's basically saying "It's your fault, so you don't have access to your computer".

Again, it's a matter of choice and a matter of freedom.

If for example some person downloads a Vista Key Generator from the Internet, and generates for example a list of license keys and YOUR KEY happens to end up on that list, when MS finds that license key, then YOUR ACCESS is revoked and you no longer have access to YOUR COMPUTER. It doesn't matter that you had nothing to do with it, it matters that they are saying "we know your key is being used by someone else, so YOUR access is revoked." Does it matter that you might be be innocent in regard to this? NO, they don't care. Watch the video.

As for making money.... There are thousands and thousands of organizations that make money with open source software and operating system.

Look at the facts. :popcorn:

- zipperback

I know the facts, and I KNOW how WGA works. But please, humor me, find me a quote that says "If someone else uses your key, you get screwed over" because I'm not getting that out of the video, myself. Sounds like you need to spend a little less time pushing BadVista on people, and maybe a little more time thinking for yourself.

Concerning business models, I didn't suggest that open source couldn't be used in a business model. Microsoft does a point-of-sale business model, and SALES of Linux in any form are typically very low. Red Hat and other major Linux vendors are making money on SUPPORT not the software. The software is the means to get you to buy the support.

I also can't think of a single instance of LEGALLY attaining Windows Vista that will keep me from getting another key. If you purchased it in box form from any respectable source, and it turns out you didn't get what you paid for (the license) you should have no issues getting another license for free.

[zipperback]

I know the facts, and I KNOW how WGA works. But please, humor me, find me a quote that says "If someone else uses your key, you get screwed over" because I'm not getting that out of the video, myself. Sounds like you need to spend a little less time pushing BadVista on people, and maybe a little more time thinking for yourself.

Really? The video clearly states that if you have a "Leaked key, Stolen key, False key, or Abused key" that your system will go into reduced functionality mode after 30 days. And then when your system locks you out, you have NO DESKTOP ACCESS.

As for my pushing badvista. Not at all. It is only one website of many, that talk about the problems with the operating system in question.

The facts are the facts.

If you want to use windows on your system that is your choice.

It isn't my choice, nor is it the choice of most people using these forums.

I am an advocate for freedom of choice. I choose open source.

And now I choose to end this pointless discussion with you.

Have a nice day. :popcorn:

- zipperback

[Adamant1988]

Really? The video clearly states that if you have a "Leaked key, Stolen key, False key, or Abused key" that your system will go into reduced functionality mode after 30 days. And then when your system locks you out, you have NO DESKTOP ACCESS.

As for my pushing badvista. Not at all. It is only one website of many, that talk about the problems with the operating system in question.

The facts are the facts.

If you want to use windows on your system that is your choice.

It isn't my choice, nor is it the choice of most people using these forums.

I am an advocate for freedom of choice. I choose open source.

And now I choose to end this pointless discussion with you.

Have a nice day. :popcorn:

- zipperback

Your video is targeted not at users but at distributors. So, the video is a warning that you're going to have some ticked off customers if you distribute versions with bad keys. There is a 30 day period of time that that person has where they get ahold of you and let you know they need a key, boom, problem solved.

Your "Facts" are spun to make the practice look a LOT more evil than it actually is. Like I said, this is aimed at distributors who are responsible for giving out the disks and keys and making sure that they work. It's their *** in the fire if that key fails, not yours. All you need to do is show the proof of purchase and get a new key.

[joe.turion64x2]

Your video is targeted not at users but at distributors. So, the video is a warning that you're going to have some ticked off customers if you distribute versions with bad keys. There is a 30 day period of time that that person has where they get ahold of you and let you know they need a key, boom, problem solved.

Your "Facts" are spun to make the practice look a LOT more evil than it actually is. Like I said, this is aimed at distributors who are responsible for giving out the disks and keys and making sure that they work. It's their *** in the fire if that key fails, not yours. All you need to do is show the proof of purchase and get a new key.
From MS's point of view it will be irrelevant if the 'bad' key was a distributor's or a user's failure, Vista is going to behave as explained. Of course the distributor's would loose but the end users would suffer the consequences of his failure.

Joe.

[Adamant1988]

From MS's point of view it will be irrelevant if the 'bad' key was a distributor's or a user's failure, Vista is going to behave as explained. Of course the distributor's would loose but the end users would suffer the consequences of his failure.

Joe.

Right, but my experience with WGA is that the end user gets rights to a usable key, because they paid for it. (yes, I did have to do this with Dell and it wasn't much of a fight).

[Dr. C]

Your video is targeted not at users but at distributors. So, the video is a warning that you're going to have some ticked off customers if you distribute versions with bad keys. There is a 30 day period of time that that person has where they get ahold of you and let you know they need a key, boom, problem solved.

Agreed. I doubt Microsoft wants end users to see this since it will scare more of them away from Vista, but the reality is that end users need to see this before it is too late.

Your "Facts" are spun to make the practice look a LOT more evil than it actually is. Like I said, this is aimed at distributors who are responsible for giving out the disks and keys and making sure that they work. It's their *** in the fire if that key fails, not yours. All you need to do is show the proof of purchase and get a new key.

A lot of things can go wrong and identify genuine Vista as non genuine. This has already happened with XP WGA. Sure you can sue whoever sold you Vista or Microsoft but that will be small comfort if the OS goes non genuine state just before that critical presentation. Then there is the very real possibility of a virus / worm that sets Vista into non genuine state. This will cause major chaos and overwhelm Microsoft's response when a large proportion of Vista users are contacting Microsoft all at the same time with their “proof of payment”. By the way don’t expect Ubuntu or the FLOSS community to be of much help either in this situation. It is quite possible that the servers for Ubuntu will be overwhelmed if millions of Vista refugees all decide to upgrade to Ubuntu all at the same time. The same can be said for many FLOSS projects and Vendors. So I prefer to get my FLOSS now (Ubuntu Feisty Fawn) and be ready to ride out the storm and be in a position to help others in need should a mass de activation of Windows Vista occur.

[Quillz]

People hate Vista because hating Microsoft is cool, thus we must irrationally hate all products made by them. There's nothing wrong with Vista, it's a very nice OS and certainly better than XP. It's not Microsoft's fault that third parties are lazy and won't update their drivers and products to work with Vista, they've had plenty of time by now. It's also a shame many don't take advantage of the vast technologies in Vista, such as WPF and resolution independence. Supposed Vista-ready applications still use terrible 9x icons, when they could be making high-quality 512•512 icons, for example.

[Extreme Coder]

People hate Vista because hating Microsoft is cool, thus we must irrationally hate all products made by them. There's nothing wrong with Vista, it's a very nice OS and certainly better than XP. It's not Microsoft's fault that third parties are lazy and won't update their drivers and products to work with Vista, they've had plenty of time by now. It's also a shame many don't take advantage of the vast technologies in Vista, such as WPF and resolution independence. Supposed Vista-ready applications still use terrible 9x icons, when they could be making high-quality 512•512 icons, for example.
I hate it because if it can not run well on most computers I see, which usually have 512 MB to 768 MB of RAM, then sorry, I will just use another OS called Linux which is running normally at 256 MB of RAM and doesn't play the ET.PHONE.HOME game.

[Quillz]

I hate it because if it can not run well on most computers I see, which usually have 512 MB to 768 MB of RAM, then sorry, I will just use another OS called Linux which is running normally at 256 MB of RAM and doesn't play the ET.PHONE.HOME game.
I dunno what computers you're looking at, every computer that I've tried Vista has run it fine, from 512 MB - 4 GB of memory.

[jusmurph]

Microsoft hating based on philospophy reminds me of wars fought under the name of religion. No one gains anything out of it.

I use Ubuntu and heart it. Though i can't hate a program for trying to make money and protecting it's income.

[karellen]

I don't know and I can't understand how it is to hate an os/computer program/collection of bits...:confused:

[Circus-Killer]

well, this is a interesting topic, simply because it involves opinions, and even idiots are allowed to have one :D

Anyways, for there are a couple of valid reasons. The first of which, is that of having seven different versions of the same thing. i recently bought a laptop that came with basic home pre-loaded. now i paid roughly ZAR5500 (south african rands) for the laptop. To my horror, the cheapest upgrade of vista, to home premium, would cost me another R1800. and me being me, home premium wouldnt be enough, so god knows how much upgrading by 6 versions would cost, if upgrading by only one is R1800. for me, if you paying two grand for an OS, you should get EVERYTHING! i dont expect to pay 2 grand and get half the usability i should. its ********.

honsetly, i would of stuck with vista, if it wasnt for these ridiculous prices. another thing that gets to me, is that we have microsoft offices in south africa, yet virtually every major MS service is unavailable here. you can buy the xbox360 here, but if you want to play online, you have to sayyou from a different country in order to register (south africa is not supported, they say). how can you have local offices in a country, sell a product in that country, then say you dont support that country.

as i was saying, i would of stuck with vista. but the prices MS charge are not even remotely feasible. now maybe in europe or america your prices arent so bad, but here in SA, most companies wouldnt be able to afford legally using windows. the only people that can afford windows is big corporations. but what about the little guy? thats the problem, cos here in south africa, there are millions of "little guys" just trying to make a living, and MS wont let them.

personally, i dont have to much of a grudge with MS products. I will be the first to admit to that. I love my xbox 360 (even if i have to register as being in another country). And i still use xp for my desktop (need it for support of exotic hardware). and that brings me to another point. although i will admit that vista is no where near as bad as people make out, it was still not worth 6 years of development. after so much time, i would of expected so much more from vista. its just depressing how slowly the biggest software company in the world takes to evolve.

anyways, so to sum it up, i dont have to much problem with MS, theres just a few aspects of the actual business practices of MS that i dont like. but i spose thats one of the reasons people do make the swap, ethics.

[e6626550w]

[quote=zipperback;2863199]The DRM scare is NOT overblown and neither is Microsoft deciding they have the right to teminate your access to your computer. Even to the point of denying access to your desktop.

Don't believe me? Watch the Flash based video on their website.
http://www.microsoft.com/partner/media/WGAPartner/WGAPlayPartner.aspx

Click --> http://www.microsoft.com/partner/media/WGAPartner/WGAPlayPartner.aspx

This is 'rich'. Bill and Melinda can kiss where I can't. I don't need them, they'll never get another penny out of me.

eileen...

[briealeida]

It's not free of course.


I think that's all you need to say. As cheap as people are, you'd think they'd at least give GNU/Linux a try!

[vexorian]

I don't know and I can't understand how it is to hate an os/computer program/collection of bits...:confused:

If you ask, I hate 10001111 there's a clear umbalance in that byte, it actually hurts my eyes.

[karellen]

If you ask, I hate 10001111 there's a clear umbalance in that byte, it actually hurts my eyes.

:lolflag:
yes, 10001111 looks really awful
(nice one, anyway)
:)

[dca]

On Vista Home Basic and Vista Home Premium (w/o Aero3D active) 512MB RAM is more than enough. I will let you know about Business & Ultimate. From what I've seen so far, this is their best OS to date. Whatever people are saying about apps not running may be a little off base. Apps that run as services (Anti-virus, etc) designed for XP/2k won't run on Vista but all the drivers and stand-alone apps (Acrobat 6 & 7) run fine using the 'Run As Administrator' toggle and selecting the Windows2000 compatibility mode.

I guess part of the joke comes to play where Linux has a HCL indicating which hardware components work out of the box and which require modules or things like ndiswrapper, etc. The same kind of thing goes for Vista.

I can't bad mouth either MS or GNU/Linux because I have no choice but to know as much as I can about them. All the hardware I install or repair runs them... I don't like how much MS products cost, that's for da*n sure.

[vexorian]

run fine using the 'Run As Administrator' toggle and selecting the Windows2000 compatibility mode.

Doesn't that mean, they don't run fine?

[digital_exhaust]

Doesn't that mean, they don't run fine?

No, it means that some older applications need to run in compatibility mode... just like there were applications that had to run in compatibility mode when XP first shipped.

[Geohevy]

I believe people dislike Vista because (at the moment) it is filled with holes and bugs, ike ny new software (especially an OS) is. That and the fact that it's so expensive.

[saxuntu]

Almost every post from pages 1-3 and 6 (sorry i got lazy) i agree with. I have an addition to make: I helped my grandparents buy a computer, the only reason i went with windows was because then my whole family could be tech support as opposed to just me with Ubuntu. I've been on Vista setting them up and i can't stand it. The desktop is mess and not just with usual bundled trail trite , why the hell is there a face clock, some slide show, and a (whats on their laptop) busted headline feed. Then there's the obligatory IE 7.annoying. If Vista attempts puts unnecessary crap on the screen IE must have perfected it. I'm not even going into 13-uses-trial Office. All in all its not hate its annoyance and frustration at lazy innovation and a flash-bang-wiz approach to software.

[mr.farenheit]

i always felt like i had a sense of freedom when i used linux even way back when i was using red hat 7. i've worked my way up on windows from nt 4.0 to xp without experiencing vista. i've noticed in alot of places its not necessarily who does what but who can do what better i.e. aero vs beryl. mainly the same 2 things with slight differences. i still don't understand the purpose of having and over exagerated interface. the main things i hate mostly about microsoft is theres always a slight sense of secrecy inside that they don't want you to know but you'll eventually find out over time. i remember way back scanning through win95 and 98 and finding the hidden files whos scripting was somewhat similar to trojan programs. i also hate their over complications in their file execution system and the fact that the biggest problems i've had was random system mishaps such as windows "accidently" deleting some of my .dll files. my only problem with linux is that theres always a long road to get what you want to make it just as comfortable and user friendly as windows. i remeber when it took damn near 20min for me to install automatix and fix the directory issues when now it can be done in 1 to 2 minutes with no problems at all.

[buzzmandt]

I've used the following windows versions: 3.1, 95, 98, 98se, me (for about 2 days), 2000, and xp, all of which had to be reinstalled on a frequent basis to get rid of crap, viruses, trojans, and the usual bsod, even had bsod (blue screen of death) in xp a few times. I don't like windows the way it grows and slows for no reason, then you reinstall and it's fast, only to slow again with time.

I just built a new system which is vista ready, but it will never see vista on it, I will keep dual boot xp until xp will no longer run any game that comes out, I will then evaluate wine, cedega, crossover, etc and if I can no longer play new games because I don't want a dictatorship os then I will study hard to make my own games based on linux. That will give me something to do besides play them, at least then I'll be doing something constructive. :lolflag:

I'm not a hater of ms, just a hater of ms pratices. They are a monopoly no matter what the courts have said. ms gives money to mac for them to stay in business so that ms doesn't get ruled a monopoly. I would have loved to see the courts decide against ms and to say all games must be made in opengl for compatability, but...oh well, here we are.

I have almost completely converted to linux, and have converted my parents completely. I have my folks running linux so I don't have to worry about them accidentally clicking the wrong link in a page and getting viruses installed (the ones that have the X at the top of the window and a "close this window" button inside it, and the close this window button is the installer). They are not gamers in the sense that I am and linux fits their bill completely and totally.
As for me, I have found linux alternatives to the games I played in windows, For BF2 I can run it in cedega or run americas army native, diablo 2 works very good with cedega as does morrowind and oblivion. Cedega and wine (wine especially) are getting better all the time. I hate the compatibility layer compared to running native but if it does the job I'll take it.

I think part of the reason vista is so expensive is that it took ms so much longer to get it developed and out the door, they have to recoup their expenses and that comes from the people that buy it

[joe.turion64x2]

ms gives money to mac for them to stay in business so that ms doesn't get ruled a monopoly
From that point of view MS is in its right to take its part (copying MAC technologies).
Joe.

[corney91]

Yes, it does take 2 gigs of ram, but that's really all vista expects to run well, and with todays ram prices...

Actually when I had Vista installed on my laptop I only need 512MB. This was without Aero but also I've seen Aero work fine with 1GB RAM.

After getting rid of Vista I realised there were three things wrong with it:
Price - far too expensive
Need for upgraded hardware
Too controlling (no freedom) - this is compared to linux;)

Also I've heard complaints of uncompatible software, but I didn't come across any, and I had a wide variety of software.

[vexorian]

I don't think aero performance should be related to RAM (unless it is in fact pretty broken) I thought it depended more on graphics

[kamaboko]

I have Vista in a very capable machine, but I don't use the Aero feature. At the same time though, I don't use Beryl either. It's all just eye candy.

[zekica]

I dislike Windows Vista because it uses too many system resources for no sane reason, I have tried installing it on my laptop (Cel 1.6GHz, 512MB ram, Intel 900GMA). Aero is not even supported, and it used around 300MB of swap right after install, and trying to run more than one application at the same time was extremely slow.

The other thing is that it limits too many things (all that DRM, no hardware acceleration for sound, etc) for me to be comfortable using it.

Ubuntu Feisty on the same machine works flawlessly, it is really fast and uses around 120MB of Ram on startup.

I have Ubuntu installed on several of my older machines (PIII-666MHz with 256MB ram GF4, AMD Duron 700MHz with 256MB GF4, AMD Athlon 1GHz with 384MB ram FX5200), and yes it is slower, but it is faster than XP, and all of those machines are usable even with beryl/compiz running - with some of the fancy effects turned off.

I don't think I will be buying all-new-shiny-pc only because Vista requires it. And I've been using Linux since RH7 came out, and it was always faster than the newest windows available at that time. :)