The "Bye, Ubuntu" thread

[NoSmokingBandit]

In my experience, hardware works better ootb with windows. It took me about a week to get my wireless dongle working correctly, but now its faster than it was in windows with official drivers. Alot faster. I got about 4000kbps higher d/l rate at speedtest.net in linux than with winxp. Irony, its like a kick in the nads to linksys and their 'official' drivers...

[GepettoBR]

The gimp is useless to me. Theres no CMYK support, how am i supposed to print something? That and its just not as powerful as CS2. Argue what you will, the Gimp is not near as powerful as cs2. I really hope adobe grows some balls and makes cs4 for linux. That would impact the pc scene like nothing else.

No arguing from me... even though for non-power users, the GIMP is a perfect substitute for Photoshop, some specific operations are lacking in it... we'll get there, though. Just you wait ;)

[daulex]

No arguing from me... even though for non-power users, the GIMP is a perfect substitute for Photoshop, some specific operations are lacking in it... we'll get there, though. Just you wait ;)

love gimp and pray that it will be better than photoshop in a few years, but as mentioned, when it comes to doing "work", ps, even cs2 is just miles ahead of gimp.

having sad that... I don't use cs2 on ubuntu, I'm a slave to cs3 under xp.

does anyone have any "easy to follow" step by step tutorials on how to get PS and dreamweaver running under ubuntu?

[NoSmokingBandit]

I couldnt justify upgrading to cs3. Theres only a few really good new features and its really expensive, so ill stick with cs2.
supposedly cs2 is supposed to work in the new version of wine. I've been meaning to test it myself but i went to the olive garden for dinner and have yet to be motivated to do any real work :)
idk about dreamweaver though, i dont use it so i cant help.

[jbaerbock]

I know I should give trying to explain to windoze people the difference between manufaturer pre-configured and a fresh install of Linux but I keep on trying. I figure somewhere maybe someone will get the point. Ah well.

[GepettoBR]

I know I should give trying to explain to windoze people the difference between manufaturer pre-configured and a fresh install of Linux but I keep on trying. I figure somewhere maybe someone will get the point. Ah well.

Even if they do, it only makes a difference in theory. In practice, they buy a computer with Windows and it works. They install Linux and it doesn't. Most of them couldn't care less if the manufacturer had to change something; they paid for the handiwork along with the box.

[NoSmokingBandit]

Whenever I or someone in my family buys a new pc i always format and re-intsall the os so i can get rid of all the crap-ware the manufacturers install. The only pc i havent had to do that with was an acer laptop my mom recently got, it had nothing but the os on it which was impressive. Anywho, the point is even on a fresh install in xp near all of my hardware works or has easily accessible drivers. This hasnt always been the case for linux, but gusty has made it a whole lot easier. Fiesty pissed me off to the point i quit linux for a while but gusty has alot better hardware support even though i had to fight to get my wireless working.

[ddrichardson]

Whenever I or someone in my family buys a new pc i always format and re-intsall the os so i can get rid of all the crap-ware the manufacturers install.
And how do you do that? Either by using a slipstreamed COA disk from the manufacturer or by using a full install disk which combined with the OEM key on the laptop contravenes the EULA.
The only pc i havent had to do that with was an acer laptop my mom recently got, it had nothing but the os on it which was impressive. Anywho, the point is even on a fresh install in xp near all of my hardware works or has easily accessible drivers.Which is what we are all saying about it being a mute anti windows argument - comparing a slipstreamed COA Windows against a standard Ubuntu disc is not the same.
This hasnt always been the case for linux, but gusty has made it a whole lot easier. Fiesty pissed me off to the point i quit linux for a while but gusty has alot better hardware support even though i had to fight to get my wireless working.You do realise that Ubuntu!=Linux and that there are other distributions out there don't you? I only ask because as much as you chastise Ubuntu I am beginning to suspect you like it. In any case if Windows saves you so much time with installation - prey tell why do you invest time in Ubuntu at all - after your stated experience you must concede you are either looking for something that Windows cannot do or a masochist.

[ghostwalk.with.me]

"Why do people feel the need to post this?"

Well, understand that he's actually doing everyone a favor by listing the reasons the product didn't work for him. Most people use Windows, so for Linux in any variety to have a shot at growth it has to appeal to a Windows-user's expectations. This guy took issue with the lack (or apparent lack) of support for wireless equipment and the installation procedure for additional software. If many other users are also turned off by these issues, it's something for the programming community to try to work on.

S.W.

I'm in full agreement with you, S.W. I have a Toshiba Satellite on which everything works flawlessly, but while trying to kill Vista on a client's machine, I couldn't get her wi-fi or broadband operational under Feisty. It broke my heart, but I was pressed for time, and had to install XP. The fact that I threw in a copy of the Open CD, provided a little consolation, but I felt as if I was doing her a disservice some how.

[NoSmokingBandit]

And how do you do that? Either by using a slipstreamed COA disk from the manufacturer or by using a full install disk which combined with the OEM key on the laptop contravenes the EULA.

I take down the product key and re-install it from an official microsoft disc i downloaded. Technically its not illegal if you dont use a product code that doesnt belong to you. :)


Which is what we are all saying about it being a mute anti windows argument - comparing a slipstreamed COA Windows against a standard Ubuntu disc is not the same.

Its just a plain install without anything added in, so yeah.

You do realise that Ubuntu!=Linux and that there are other distributions out there don't you? I only ask because as much as you chastise Ubuntu I am beginning to suspect you like it. In any case if Windows saves you so much time with installation - prey tell why do you invest time in Ubuntu at all - after your stated experience you must concede you are either looking for something that Windows cannot do or a masochist.
I chastise ubuntu? lol, i like to think i b!tch about each os equally. Yeah i am aware that ubuntu != linux, and every distro i've used has been sub-par compared to ubuntu. I've used PCLOS (which was slow and just plain terrible, but had a nice installer), DSL, and fedora. Granted its not a huge list, but its enough to make me know that Ubuntu is the way to g for compatibility.

[jbaerbock]

Well PCs and Laptops are available pre-installed with Ubuntu. System76.com has some as well as http://store.madtux.org/ and dell sells some as well now. So if they really don't want to configure linux themseleves they can always but one of them which are cheaper and in some cases nicer than their windows counterparts.

[ddrichardson]

I take down the product key and re-install it from an official microsoft disc i downloaded. Technically its not illegal if you dont use a product code that doesnt belong to you. :)Sadly that is incorrect. There are a number of extra clauses in the Windows OEM EULA (http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/Public/sblicense/English_SB_License.pdf) which disallow the use of the OEM key for retail versions. The only way it would be allowed is to have an OEM disc and they are only obtainable under the OEM partnership agreements, or as a COA version from a manufacturer.

The only reason you can (generally) do it physically is because of the OEM activation workaround.

[NoSmokingBandit]

system76 always seemed expensive to me. Idk if dell is still selling pcs with ubuntu or not. I assume they do.

[johnny9794]

I am almost to the point of dropping the whole ubuntu thing unless I find a way to share from my ubuntu box to xp machines and xbox. "yes i tried tuts on here", other than the networking I would be fantastically fricken happy with ubuntu.

[wirah]

I am almost to the point of dropping the whole ubuntu thing unless I find a way to share from my ubuntu box to xp machines and xbox. "yes i tried tuts on here", other than the networking I would be fantastically fricken happy with ubuntu.

Why don't you configure samba on your Ubuntu box? just edit /etc/samba/smb.conf, add a couple of shares for your files, and then /etc/init.d/samba restart

[wolfen69]

is this thread going to last forever?

[NoSmokingBandit]

Sadly that is incorrect. There are a number of extra clauses in the Windows OEM EULA (http://oem.microsoft.com/downloads/Public/sblicense/English_SB_License.pdf) which disallow the use of the OEM key for retail versions. The only way it would be allowed is to have an OEM disc and they are only obtainable under the OEM partnership agreements, or as a COA version from a manufacturer.

The only reason you can (generally) do it physically is because of the OEM activation workaround.

either way, i do it. :)

[Fitzy_oz]

I am almost to the point of dropping the whole ubuntu thing unless I find a way to share from my ubuntu box to xp machines and xbox. "yes i tried tuts on here", other than the networking I would be fantastically fricken happy with ubuntu.

I assume you have the file sharing for windwos option checked under Settings -> Administration -> Shared Folders. This will automatically install the necessary components for SAMBA and windows file sharing, however you will need to add a windows/samba account for the xp box if you wish to access it, this is something that is often overlooked, and im not sure whether it's covered by the doco (it could be, i've just never read it). At any rate, open a terminal and type the following:

sudo smbpasswd -a <your ubuntu user name or the windows account you wish to use for the shares>

it should prompt you for a password - make it the same as your accounts password be it your ubuntu one or the windows one you wish to use.

After which try to logon to your ubuntu boxes shares with your windows machine, use the credentials you've just created and you should be fine. :)

[sstusick]

is this thread going to last forever?
It appears that way.

[Gruelius]

Ive gone back and forward between linux and windows a few times. The fact that RTFM is a common phrase (havent heard it here much :D) and also the fact gnome is used by default (not a fan ;P ) pushed me back a few times.

The self satisfaction of tweaking it to work is what drives me, if i could buy a car, or get the same car in kit form, requiring much more effort but yielding much more performance with a few inconveniences, i would go the latter :P

[HokeyFry]

I think you're being a little disingenuous. Microsoft Office is, like it or not, the predominant office suite in use today and frequently stated as a reason to stick with Windows (I don't know what Wine support is like).

Besides, you were discussing the effect:
I'm pretty sure Microsoft releasing their products for Linux would be right up there amongst the most monumental moments in open source history (not that it's going to happen).

What companies look for in application software is not necessarily cost, but customer support as well. I mean, for example, I find no issues in Thunderbird, for instance, but if there was some unknown ussue, they wouldnt go to a forum for the issue, they would want the on-site mozilla representative to fix it for them. But wait, i dont think mozilla has on-site support. But guess who does....... Microsoft does

So a large part in deciding the software used in a company is the customer service portion. I know a third party company does offer professional support for mozilla products, but even so microsoft to many companies is still a safety net, and they just go woth them because everyone else does. It will be hard to overthrow microsoft in the workplace.

[magwhyte]

MS Publisher?

What are doing with that tool, that can't be done in either GIMP, Scribus or OOo?

All I associate it with, is stuff akin to that created by a two year old given a Crayola box of 128 colours and finger paint.

xan

jonathon
I only use it because I am painted into a corner. The MS Publisher file format is not readable by Scribus or Gimp (obviously, not their fault), but it would mean having to remake a whole bunch of brochures and other promotional literature so it could be read by Scribus, etc.

From what I understand the file format for MS Publisher is extremely complex, so I am not going to wait for some dev to waste his/her time on this one. I will just have to have a PC sitting in the corner gathering dust for those files (what a waste).

Oh well... At least I have found Ubuntu 7.10 and my main desktop computer is happy.

[ddrichardson]

The fact that RTFM is a common phrase (havent heard it here much :DIts not an attitude I care for either, however it's also extremely common for people to appear on forums and ask a question without bothering to check stickies, the suggested threads when they enter a title or even google. Sometimes it gets under my skin too - when you see the same question dozens of times in a week and you know its answered in the system help.

[ddrichardson]

What companies look for in application software is not necessarily cost, but customer support as well. I mean, for example, I find no issues in Thunderbird, for instance, but if there was some unknown ussue, they wouldnt go to a forum for the issue, they would want the on-site mozilla representative to fix it for them. But wait, i dont think mozilla has on-site support. But guess who does....... Microsoft doesAbsolutely correct but I also think Canonical is making great strides here with both support and soon to be available training.

So a large part in deciding the software used in a company is the customer service portion. I know a third party company does offer professional support for mozilla products, but even so microsoft to many companies is still a safety net, and they just go woth them because everyone else does. It will be hard to overthrow microsoft in the workplace.Let's not forget the apparent cost difference in UNIX sysadmins either. Retraining staff, new support costs all adds up and it can become unclear as to how uch of a saving one can make in switching to an OSS solution.

[GepettoBR]

The self satisfaction of tweaking it to work is what drives me, if i could buy a car, or get the same car in kit form, requiring much more effort but yielding much more performance with a few inconveniences, i would go the latter :P

Hotrods :guitar:

[jonathonblake]

i dont think mozilla has on-site support. But guess who does....... Microsoft does

Mozilla doesn't, but there are a couple of organizations that do offer on-site support for Thunderbird. (I have no idea how good they are, but at their prices, I would assume so.)

With Microsoft products, the "security" is because Microsoft theoretically has the source code, and as such can fix glitches.

With FLOSS, since everybody can obtain the source code, any organization that provides support can fix the glitches in the source code.

One factor that PHBs think they get is that if there is a software failure, Microsoft is legally liable. (Microsoft isn't, due to the EULAs that they use. However, most people --- including lawyers, don't grok those EULAs.) With FLOSS, it is very obvious that there is no such "escape clause".

xan

jonathon

[akiratheoni]

The gimp is useless to me. Theres no CMYK support, how am i supposed to print something? That and its just not as powerful as CS2. Argue what you will, the Gimp is not near as powerful as cs2. I really hope adobe grows some balls and makes cs4 for linux. That would impact the pc scene like nothing else.

I don't want to sound mean, but what did you expect? GIMP developers are playing catch-up to people that earn thousands upon thousands of dollars and have years of experience in making Photoshop; I'd cut the GIMP developers some slack.

[NoSmokingBandit]

I don't want to sound mean, but what did you expect? GIMP developers are playing catch-up to people that earn thousands upon thousands of dollars and have years of experience in making Photoshop; I'd cut the GIMP developers some slack.

Im not dissing the devs, i just expected Gimp to be as good as some people say it is. I have had a few people tell me that the gimp is just a powerful and has the same features as photoshop. Thats just not true. Where do i find the distort filter? Perspective? Warp? Layer Styles? Maybe they are in there, but they are buried too deep for me to find. Im kinda frustrated at the people who are stupid enough to say the Gimp = photoshop in terms of functionality.
Thats all moot now since cs2 works (kinda) in wine. Its not perfect, but they made a whole lot of progress.

[conehead77]

Im not dissing the devs, i just expected Gimp to be as good as some people say it is. I have had a few people tell me that the gimp is just a powerful and has the same features as photoshop. Thats just not true. Where do i find the distort filter? Perspective? Warp? Layer Styles? Maybe they are in there, but they are buried too deep for me to find. Im kinda frustrated at the people who are stupid enough to say the Gimp = photoshop in terms of functionality.
Thats all moot now since cs2 works (kinda) in wine. Its not perfect, but they made a whole lot of progress.
I dont think people say this because they are stupid. If Gimp works for them instead of PS they recommend it. If you need special features, ask for the features and you will know if somebody knows what he is talking about.
A simple Google search brings some Gimp forums aswell: http://www.gimptalk.com/forum/board.php

After all, this is a Ubuntu forum, not a Gimp forum. This leads me to the conclusion that people who use Gimp a lot and really could compare PS and Gimp hang around there.

[karellen]

I don't want to sound mean, but what did you expect? GIMP developers are playing catch-up to people that earn thousands upon thousands of dollars and have years of experience in making Photoshop; I'd cut the GIMP developers some slack.

I subscribe to this. you can't really have the same expectations from a free product as from something costing hundrends of $. it's just unrealistic and unjust

[julian67]

I subscribe to this. you can't really have the same expectations from a free product as from something costing hundrends of $. it's just unrealistic and unjust

yeah sure, openSSH, wget, Firefox, F-Spot, mplayer, Ubuntu, VLC, Deluge, K3B, the Linux kernel....they're all 2nd class by this reasoning :confused:

[karellen]

yeah sure, openSSH, wget, Firefox, F-Spot, mplayer, Ubuntu, VLC, Deluge, K3B, the Linux kernel....they're all 2nd class by this reasoning :confused:

some are, some are not. it depends. but mea culpa, I generalized a little too much. but I was talking about the comparison between gimp and photoshop which is expensive. the counterparts to firefox, vlc, f-spot, k3b are not that expensive - in fact many of them are free (gratis) - opera, picasa/fast stone image viewer, media player classic, utorrent. the biggest discrepancy is between gimp and photoshop

[mivo]

The price difference between GIMP and Photoshop is not relevant to most people who use PS: they are likely to have pirated it. I do not know even one person who has purchased PS, but several who pirated it. I believe that most GIMP criticism comes from exactly these people, because to them Photoshop is essentially "free".

I also don't know any Photoshop users who do anything with the software that cannot be done in GIMP. Plus, there is the common mindset that "quality costs" (decades of marketing brainwashing pay off), so "gratis" things can't by necessity be as good, or they would cost. That is really deeply etched into many people's minds, even though it can be proven incorrect quite easily. But because of this common mindset people rather pirate commercial software than falling back on free (and gratis) alternatives that are just as good, perhaps better, or at least sufficient for the task.

Interesting article of relevance: http://articles.tlug.jp/Windows_Is_Free

[aysiu]

I think people paying for software or pirating it greatly depends on the social circles in which you run. Most of the people I know who use Photoshop paid for it. I know my wife certainly did (at a student discount, granted).

If you use Photoshop as a professional, you are unlikely to switch to GIMP because you already have (whether obtained through piracy or payment) Photoshop and are used to it.

If, however, you use Photoshop as a home user (to fix red eye or do simple photo manipulation that MS Paint can't handle), GIMP is a great free choice for both Windows and Linux.

I love having GIMP available on my Windows computer at work and my Ubuntu computer at home. I am not a graphics professional, but being able to easily crop photos or draw straight lines using the mouse or open TIFF or Photoshop files is a handy thing to have for free legally.

[julian67]

I think there are very few genuine Windows OS aside from those pre-installed. In the developing world it's rare for PCs and even many laptops to be sold with a genuine copy of Windows pre-installed. Most manufacturers like Lenovo, NEC, Asus etc will supply computers without an OS or with freedos floppy supplied and the vendors are happy to sell you the hardware with a non-genuine Windows OS installed, along with cracked AV, cracked Photoshop, cracked Nero etc etc. Some people will pay a little extra for a machine with genuine Windows pre-installed but nobody buys genuine Windows as a standalone product to install themselves when you can buy a copy on the street for $2 US. Nobody buys Office and nobody buys Photoshop. Even large businesses and government offices will run warez.

[karellen]

The price difference between GIMP and Photoshop is not relevant to most people who use PS: they are likely to have pirated it. I do not know even one person who has purchased PS, but several who pirated it. I believe that most GIMP criticism comes from exactly these people, because to them Photoshop is essentially "free".

I also don't know any Photoshop users who do anything with the software that cannot be done in GIMP. Plus, there is the common mindset that "quality costs" (decades of marketing brainwashing pay off), so "gratis" things can't by necessity be as good, or they would cost. That is really deeply etched into many people's minds, even though it can be proven incorrect quite easily. But because of this common mindset people rather pirate commercial software than falling back on free (and gratis) alternatives that are just as good, perhaps better, or at least sufficient for the task.

Interesting article of relevance: http://articles.tlug.jp/Windows_Is_Free

as I said, it all depends. it's quite a dangerous task to put everyone in the same bowl. the same with software

[perixx]

I would say that if the interface of Gimp was completely re-designed and provided with a consistent GUI by standard (like Gimpshop) the popularity was even greater than it already is; also the comparability to CS would be easier...

By the way, what about Blender? That one sure can compare to professional software....

I personally miss a music production suite like Reason in Linux - or did I miss there something?


perixx

[NoSmokingBandit]

I tried blander but couldnt figure anything out in it. I also could never figure anything out in 3dsmax, so they both must be close to the same :D

Ardour is pretty good for being free. try tht out for your music production needs. I really only use audacity. I like to keep it simple. I dont like the way it handles plugins though, but thats just a preference.

[bwallum]

Blender is the biz! You just need to immerse yourself. Allow 2 hrs to work it out. Consider it a puzzle, load the tuts and run with it.The experience usually goes this way; what a load of crap, maybe I understand it a bit, this is just eccentric, they might have a point, bloody hell! It takes about 2 hrs.

[NoSmokingBandit]

Im really familiar with a photoshop style interface and Blender is like the complete opposite of that. I was hitting buttons that i had no idea what they did. I'll learn it someday, but for now ill just keep being lazy.

[GepettoBR]

You select stuff by right-clicking o.o

how can the Blender people call that intuitive is beyond me.

[bruce89]

Copying another programs interface -- People say "that's just a cheap copy"
Having another interface -- People say "I wish it was like X program"

[NoSmokingBandit]

Copying another programs interface -- People say "that's just a cheap copy"
Having another interface -- People say "I wish it was like X program"

You have misunderstood me. I am used to working on a 2d plane-like view wheras blender is designed for 3d polygonal views. Thats a hard switch for me. Also, like 90% of the blender guides i tried got me nowhere, i couldnt figure out how to import a shape that was too complex to draw by hand and a bunch of stuff. I just suck at 3d.

[maruchan]

Give Art of Illusion a try if you don't feel like using Blender. Art of Illusion is geared more toward beginning 3D software users. Link is in my sig.

[NoSmokingBandit]

I LOVE the bass with the map pickguard you did. Thats sooooo cool. I may do that to my strat now next time i have it apart....
Im having trouble getting the program to run in wine, has it been done before? I get an error "cannot create java virtual machine"
Its cool if it doesnt run in wine, i was just hoping....

[maruchan]

Why would you run it in Wine if it runs in Linux? Just install Sun Java 6 from the repositories (or Sun Java 5, which is a bit slower - just make sure it's Sun's Java), then go to the Art of Illusion website (http://aoi.sf.net) and download the Linux installer. Run that and you should be all set. :D

Hope to see you modeling guitars soon. :)

[NoSmokingBandit]

wow, i completely missed the linux section of the download page... thanks :guitar:

[Ichido]

Look at the list of wireless network adapters supported by Ubuntu and realize that there are many more wireless network adapters out there that aren't supported. Ubuntu is great but it still has a long way to go as far as wireless network adapters are concerned.[/QUOTE]

Where is the List of Wireless Network Adapters for Ubuntu 8.04?

[lsutiger]

Where is the List of Wireless Network Adapters for Ubuntu 8.04?

Here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WirelessCardsSupported

[Panzerino]

It relieves stress, I guess?
No. Just people are no reluctant to give a chance to Ubuntu.
But the things may work-not to tray day by day one simple driver installation on basic computer components.

If you have years in your disposal to learn how to install one simple printer driver in 2008, i do not have such time. I just want the things to work.

[mivo]

If you have years in your disposal to learn how to install one simple printer driver in 2008, i do not have such time. I just want the things to work.

I somewhat agree, but it's important to keep in mind that if a printer does not work in Linux (any Linux) out of the box, it is almost always the fault of the manufacturer who did not provide a Linux driver or at least specifications so that unpaid Linux developers can do the work for the printer manufacturer.

I understand that this isn't the problem of the end-user. But it is the end-user who can execute their power and buy printers from companies that support more operating systems than just Windows. It may cost a few dollars more, but if we want change, real change, we have to support it. Change begins with us. I'm not saying that someone whose printer is not supported should buy a new one right away. But perhaps it could be a concern for the next purchase.

[IamJohnHayes]

Here https://help.ubuntu.com/community/WifiDocs/WirelessCardsSupported

Nothing in that page states anything about 8.04

[aysiu]

Who has spent years installing a printer driver in Ubuntu? I know I haven't. In fact, I spent less time setting up printers in Ubuntu than I did in Windows.

[GepettoBR]

Ahoy necroposters.

[Panzerino]

Who has spent years installing a printer driver in Ubuntu? I know I haven't. In fact, I spent less time setting up printers in Ubuntu than I did in Windows.
Yes, but tell us, which printer you have. This make the big difference.
Install is one thing. To use your hardware with full capacity is other thing. With Linux/Ubuntu it is very dubious if you have your hardware in working condition at 40% at least. And you must search endless hours in all sort of "opinions" in scope to print one page at full resolution.
This is the progress? Today?

[Keyper7]

Yes, but tell us, which printer you have. This make the big difference.
Install is one thing. To use your hardware with full capacity is other thing. With Linux/Ubuntu it is very dubious if you have your hardware in working condition at 40% at least. And you must search endless hours in all sort of "opinions" in scope to print one page at full resolution.
This is the progress? Today?

Yes, this is today's progress of printer manufacturers' support to Linux.

[Panzerino]

I somewhat agree, but it's important to keep in mind that if a printer does not work in Linux (any Linux) out of the box, it is almost always the fault of the manufacturer who did not provide a Linux driver or at least specifications so that unpaid Linux developers can do the work for the printer manufacturer.

I understand that this isn't the problem of the end-user. But it is the end-user who can execute their power and buy printers from companies that support more operating systems than just Windows. It may cost a few dollars more, but if we want change, real change, we have to support it. Change begins with us. I'm not saying that someone whose printer is not supported should buy a new one right away. But perhaps it could be a concern for the next purchase.

I think, that you simple have wrong philosophy on this issue.
I buy my hardware taking in mind my needs. Simply, for those hardware, which cover my need, no Linux drivers exist. And this is not my fault. I will not buy lower quality hardware simply because Linux drivers for this piece exist.

I admire the Adobe programs-InDesign, par example. With which program you will replace the Adobe InDesign in Linux?? With OpenOffice? with nothing... but I work with InDesigh-i had spend many years to learn the program. Why exact this program? Because this program is at the top.
Why to go to Linux then? To play childish games of endless hours trying to install one simple graphic driver? Sorry, my puberty is gone years from now.

Linux is pourfull... yes, may be.
But not for me, at this moment.
Tomorrow? May be... .
You must understand the other side-this is not a Windows issue.
We live in time, when time is money. And with Windows and Apple the productivity at this moment is highest, than with Linux. And the problems less. The nature of the problems with Linux is terrible-Linux is simple at this moment only for computer enthusiasts.

Think at this... .

[Panzerino]

Yes, this is today's progress of printer manufacturers' support to Linux.
Yes, but the Linux peoples cry day and night "Come to us, we have a better solution". Where is this "better solution"?

I'm not disbelieve by nature, and not reluctant to try.
Sure-i make this transition-I use all Ubuntu distro 2 years from now. With endless problems... spend thousand and thousand of hours reading and reading "opinions", instead of reading one stick with WORKING solution, or rapid update. Are you kidding us? peoples from Ubuntu??

My sound card (Terratec Phase 28 ) par example, is wonderful piece of hardware-just install the drivers (Windows,Mac) and work with. With unbelievable sound. With Ubuntu? no chance-clipping sound, no good volume,does not work at 96 kHz, does not work at 32 bit,clicks and pops every minute. Buy another-the boys will tell you. Sorry-I WILL not buy another!

Like human been, i'm simply upset, because simply this piece of software DOES NOT WORK. Like should be! You my find thousand vindications, but this will not change the result. And the result IS BAD.

[Keyper7]

Yes, but the Linux peoples cry day and night "Come to us, we have a better solution". Where is this "better solution"?

I'm not disbelieve by nature, and not reluctant to try.
Sure-i make this transition-I use all Ubuntu distro 2 years from now. With endless problems... spend thousand and thousand of hours reading and reading "opinions", instead of reading one stick with WORKING solution, or rapid update. Are you kidding us? peoples from Ubuntu??

My sound card (Terratec Phase 28 ) par example, is wonderful piece of hardware-just install the drivers (Windows,Mac) and work with. With unbelievable sound. With Ubuntu? no chance-clipping sound, no good volume,does not work at 96 kHz, does not work at 32 bit,clicks and pops every minute. Buy another-the boys will tell you. Sorry-I WILL not buy another!

Like human been, i'm simply upset, because simply this piece of software DOES NOT WORK. Like should be! You my find thousand vindications, but this will not change the result. And the result IS BAD.

Microsoft didn't write the sound card drivers for Windows. Terratec did.

Apple didn't write the sound card drivers for Mac. Terratec did.

So why are you blaming Ubuntu instead of Terratec?

[carleeldean]

It's a no brainer people. Linux vs. Windows FC (frustrating crap). All distros have teething problems, Ubuntu is no exception. I have used it since "Hoary" and each new release presents new problems IN THE BEGINNING. Between Canonical and the STRONG Ubuntu Community, all the bugs are normally ironed out in the end. Most of the problems I have experienced are hardware vendors which are not Linux friendly, again "in the beginning". I remember the crap with my Canon LBP2900 and Lexmark C500n. Then someone posted the LBP2900 solution and in 8.04 the c500n works out-of-the-box WOOW! The other issues are like about wireless firmware, again unfriendly vendors issues. But, I HAVE NOT YET FOUND A SINGLE THING THAT CAN'T BE MADE TO WORK, AGAIN "IN THE END".

For normal everyday users who have problems, let me share my opinion on the matter:


1.WAIT & SEE >> Most problems occur when you upgrade to the next distro. What I do is test the new distro on a separate machine or partition and do not implement it until I feel that instability issues can be resolved. Don't port to the next one till its IN ORDER for you. I kept my production machines with Feisty .. didn't even port to Gutsy except for 1 machine, just to have a look-see.

2.BUY SMART >> Plan for Linux when you buy stuff. We still live in a Microsoft KOW-TOW (chinese for WORSHIP, more like blind worship) universe, meaning that most machine and hardware vendors have windows drivers. However, many vendors are now beginning to be Linux friendly. Example: ASUS, a Taiwan company making motherboards and hardware now make Linux drivers available on their website. The world is CHANGING!!!!

3.CAUTION >> Don't get funky when playing with your distro. Stick to stuff on the stable Repositories and you won't get into trouble. Ubuntu has great repos and plenty of mirrors around the world. Use the ones that are UP-TO-DATE.

4.THE FORUM >> People, this forum is really the heart of Ubuntu. All is solved HERE. There are a great many people in this forum with an intense sense of responsibility and dedication in HELPING fellow users. Truly "HUMANITY TO OTHERS". MY UNDYING EXPRESSION OF GRATITUDE AND THANK TO THESE PEOPLE. The responsibility of the rest of us is follow their lead and contribute in helping as best as we are able.


I also use Vista (PURE HELL!), XP (Its actually OK! if you don't screw around with it and keep it updated), OpenSUSE, PC Linux OS, Fedora and Centos too. But me and my 70 year old Dad both swear by Ubuntu, by far the most out-of-the-box NEWBIE Linux out there and FREE (BELIEVE IT OR NOT!). Never lost nothing, broke nothing, screamed at anything. I have taught no less than 50 newbies over the year to install and operate Ubuntu and they are all BELIEVERS now (there is life beyond Microsoft). None of them have complaints (these fellas were all hardcore windows people).

Finally, maybe Linux is NOT for everyone. I'll admit there a dose of patients and persistence required. But the benefits have spoken for itself. I still hang-out with my newbies who commonly say "Why did I pay for that Windows crap?" as they are surfing on their Ubuntu machines.

STAY THE COURSE

[Panzerino]

Microsoft didn't write the sound card drivers for Windows. Terratec did.
Apple didn't write the sound card drivers for Mac. Terratec did.
So why are you blaming Ubuntu instead of Terratec?

Yes, but these drivers work on Windows platform (or Mac). And most of them are NOT Windows certificated, like you know.
How many years you will blame the others? instead of reverse engineering and making the appropriate Linux drivers? It is impossible? No, it isn't.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi :)

I have a printer (printer/scanner/fax all-in-one) which, under XP, required 3 reboots (no joke!) during the install of the driver and assorted software from the CD. And when i plugged it into another USB socket, i had to uninstall that software and reinstall it again!

Under Vista i had to download a 160 Megabyte package to get the basic functions to work, and still it scanned in poor quality regardless how i set it.

In Ubuntu Hardy Heron 8.04, i connected it to the USB socket and switched it on.

And it worked.

Best regards.....

Thanh

[Panzerino]

It's a no brainer people. Linux vs. Windows FC (frustrating crap). All distros have teething problems, Ubuntu is no exception. I have used it since "Hoary" and each new release presents new problems IN THE BEGINNING. Between Canonical and the STRONG Ubuntu Community, all the bugs are normally ironed out in the end. Most of the problems I have experienced are hardware vendors which are not Linux friendly, again "in the beginning". I remember the crap with my Canon LBP2900 and Lexmark C500n. Then someone posted the LBP2900 solution and in 8.04 the c500n works out-of-the-box WOOW! The other issues are like about wireless firmware, again unfriendly vendors issues. But, I HAVE NOT YET FOUND A SINGLE THING THAT CAN'T BE MADE TO WORK, AGAIN "IN THE END".

For normal everyday users who have problems, let me share my opinion on the matter:


1.WAIT & SEE >> Most problems occur when you upgrade to the next distro. What I do is test the new distro on a separate machine or partition and do not implement it until I feel that instability issues can be resolved. Don't port to the next one till its IN ORDER for you. I kept my production machines with Feisty .. didn't even port to Gutsy except for 1 machine, just to have a look-see.

2.BUY SMART >> Plan for Linux when you buy stuff. We still live in a Microsoft KOW-TOW (chinese for WORSHIP, more like blind worship) universe, meaning that most machine and hardware vendors have windows drivers. However, many vendors are now beginning to be Linux friendly. Example: ASUS, a Taiwan company making motherboards and hardware now make Linux drivers available on their website. The world is CHANGING!!!!

3.CAUTION >> Don't get funky when playing with your distro. Stick to stuff on the stable Repositories and you won't get into trouble. Ubuntu has great repos and plenty of mirrors around the world. Use the ones that are UP-TO-DATE.

4.THE FORUM >> People, this forum is really the heart of Ubuntu. All is solved HERE. There are a great many people in this forum with an intense sense of responsibility and dedication in HELPING fellow users. Truly "HUMANITY TO OTHERS". MY UNDYING EXPRESSION OF GRATITUDE AND THANK TO THESE PEOPLE. The responsibility of the rest of us is follow their lead and contribute in helping as best as we are able.


I also use Vista (PURE HELL!), XP (Its actually OK! if you don't screw around with it and keep it updated), OpenSUSE, PC Linux OS, Fedora and Centos too. But me and my 70 year old Dad both swear by Ubuntu, by far the most out-of-the-box NEWBIE Linux out there and FREE (BELIEVE IT OR NOT!). Never lost nothing, broke nothing, screamed at anything. I have taught no less than 50 newbies over the year to install and operate Ubuntu and they are all BELIEVERS now (there is life beyond Microsoft). None of them have complaints (these fellas were all hardcore windows people).

Finally, maybe Linux is NOT for everyone. I'll admit there a dose of patients and persistence required. But the benefits have spoken for itself. I still hang-out with my newbies who commonly say "Why did I pay for that Windows crap?" as they are surfing on their Ubuntu machines.

STAY THE COURSE

THIS IS NOT WINDOWS vs UBUNTU issue.
When i install something, i hope that this will work.
For 3-4 days, if not immediately. With the most essential futures, and always in state, in which you will be able to find help (working Internet, screen, etc). Not black screens,blue screens or so on. THE ATI DRIVERS inside Ubuntu cause crash!!
You install the inside drivers, not something exotic. And this almost 1m after the introduction of the new version.


I need working machine, because I WORK on my computer, and not writing love letters to my girlfriend, or play childish games.
When you install update of one program in most of the cases you are able to work with this program today. Not after 1 week.

When you install Ubuntu, and something goes wrong, you don't have COMPUTER AT ALL. You must have second computer in scope to find help. If you choose to install over working Windows, the hell is here-neither Windows, or Ubuntu shall work out of the box in 80% of the cases.

The conclusion-some boys have too much time to spend.
Sorry- I'm working man.
I will be happy to try, and read,and try, if the system need polishing. Otherwise-work well.

This thing are unable to load (or install) the graphic driver, which are in his own repository, 1 months after the introduction!!

I must be happy? :(

[chewearn]

THIS IS NOT WINDOWS vs UBUNTU issue.
When i install something, i hope that this will work.
For 3-4 days, if not immediately. With the most essential futures, and always in state, in which you will be able to find help (working Internet, screen, etc). Not black screens,blue screens or so on. THE ATI DRIVERS inside Ubuntu cause crash!!
You install the inside drivers, not something exotic. And this almost 1m after the introduction of the new version.

* edit the rest of ranting *


Sorry it's not working out for you. You obviously have the wrong set of hardware combination: printer, graphics card, possibly ethernet card (you didn't mention it's wired or wireless) and perhaps even the wrong monitor.

I said wrong, not meaning it's your fault, or anyone else, but just by fate/luck you got the wrong hardware that don't work in ubuntu.

Give it a rest. It doesn't do anyone, especially you, to rant back and forth throughout this forum (yes, I looked at your profile, you are angry right now; take a deep breath and relax).

The next computer you buy, check with a knowledgeable person to ensure linux compatibility.

That is, if you are still interested to have a try in ubuntu. You might well decided Windows or Mac is the way to go. It's your choice.


.

[Panzerino]

Ubuntu is OPERATING system, not simple program.
The boys from Ubuntu goes to the sky, watching how many people have their Linux distro installed. But not understand how big responsibility it is.
Why these upgrades every 6m?? to mess it up better? Why new components so bad, that these not work at all? Why their own ATI driver cause fatal errors? they do not known this before release this crap?

Most people have their crucial data on this Ubuntu OS. Upgrade problems means loss of data. And to recover-you must have Ph.D on Linux. Why this?
"Because Linux is not Windows". Thanks, boys. In Windows i have backups. In Linux? i have 1000 pages help file, which I'm unable to read, because my screen after your own update goes black, blue, green, etc.

The quality of the software is unlinked from the money.
The best software, which i had have through all these years was either low cost, or cost nothing.
The issue is the quality of the software, not the money.

Sorry, but probably i have more years in computer business, than you think i have had.

"You obviously have the wrong set of hardware combination..."
->Sounds to me like "Sorry, you was at wrong place, and was killed. Another time be at a better place." Terratec Phase 28 is card 3 years old. My comp is 4 years old. My comp work without any issues at previous Ubuntu.

[Modplanman]

Ubuntu is OPERATING system, not simple program.
The boys from Ubuntu goes to the sky, watching how many people have their Linux distro installed. But not understand how big responsibility it is.
Why these upgrades every 6m?? to mess it up better? Why new components so bad, that these not work at all? Why their own ATI driver cause fatal errors? they do not known this before release this crap?

Most people have their crucial data on this Ubuntu OS. Upgrade problems means loss of data. And to recover-you must have Ph.D on Linux. Why this?
"Because Linux is not Windows". Thanks, boys. In Windows i have backups. In Linux? i have 1000 pages help file, which I'm unable to read, because my screen after your own update goes black, blue, green, etc.

The quality of the software is unlinked from the money.
The best software, which i had have through all these years was either low cost, or cost nothing.
The issue is the quality of the software, not the money.

Sorry, but probably i have more years in computer business, than you think i have had.

Try actually finding out your problem by using these support forums for their purpose, rather than mindlessly bashing the OS, especially for something that is not in its hands (why do people still not get that ATI/Nvidia drivers are the responsibility of their manufacturers, not Ubuntu?)

[chinaski]

Sorry guys and gals, I'm gave it a shot and I;m going to have to say good bye to Linux and Ubuntu. Without wireless support and an easy way to install programs, this is something that I'm not going to get. I'm a windows user and that's all there is to it.

I tried, but it just isn't going to work.
goodbye

and thanks a lot for leaving untrue infos on GNU/Linux

I have 5 machines, all different, and Ubuntu works on any of them, out of the box, including wireless on laptop

so your post should be:

"goodbye,

GNU/Linux sometimes requires users to *think*, and this is not acceptable

and hardware manufacturers do not release specs, but this is Linux fault.

so I go back to the easiest choice, but it is not my failure, it's Linux's"

[chewearn]

Ubuntu is OPERATING system, not simple program.
The boys from Ubuntu goes to the sky, watching how many people have their Linux distro installed. But not understand how big responsibility it is.
Why these upgrades every 6m?? to mess it up better? Why new components so bad, that these not work at all? Why their own ATI driver cause fatal errors? they do not known this before release this crap?

Most people have their crucial data on this Ubuntu OS. Upgrade problems means loss of data. And to recover-you must have Ph.D on Linux. Why this?
"Because Linux is not Windows". Thanks, boys. In Windows i have backups. In Linux? i have 1000 pages help file, which I'm unable to read, because my screen after your own update goes black, blue, green, etc.

The quality of the software is unlinked from the money.
The best software, which i had have through all these years was either low cost, or cost nothing.
The issue is the quality of the software, not the money.

Sorry, but probably i have more years in computer business, than you think i have had.


Ahh, still angry I see. Now, you add things I didn't say at all.
Again, calm down. Post a help thread; you won't get much assistance otherwise.



->Sounds to me like "Sorry, you was at wrong place, and was killed. Another time be at a better place." Terratec Phase 28 is card 3 years old. My comp is 4 years old. My comp work without any issues at previous Ubuntu.Dead is (arguably) final. Computer not working is not. If you can't see the difference, you need to log off now and take a walk to reflect on life. That's a friendly advice.

I have a computer running 24/7 in Gutsy. I haven't upgrade that computer because it's absolutely essential it continue working.

Why do you feel the urge to upgrade yours? Did you back-up your drive before upgrade? I always make an exact clone of ubuntu partition before every upgrade. Tha't way, I can swap back and be in working order within minutes. Who is to blame?

.

[Panzerino]

"I have a computer running 24/7 in Gutsy. I haven't upgrade that computer because it's absolutely essential it continue working."

->A ha... he he he. The same thing. Why you do not upgrade? You know so much about Ubuntu. The same thing here-fear from the crappy updates. But we present us like "brave boys" and tell to the "newbies" - "Upgrade boys,upgrade. You fail? no problem, you don't know the Ubuntu, you have unapropriate hardware, and so on,and so on. When all will be ok, i will upgrade too."

Human nature...
The others are wrong-they are dumb. NOT, "WE are incapable to produce good software".

[Panzerino]

Try actually finding out your problem by using these support forums for their purpose, rather than mindlessly bashing the OS, especially for something that is not in its hands (why do people still not get that ATI/Nvidia drivers are the responsibility of their manufacturers, not Ubuntu?)

The ati-fglrx driver in the Ubuntu its own repository are "responsibility of their manufacturers, not Ubuntu"? How many peoples report problems with these drivers? One, or two? Problems, which make the OS inoperative... not glitches only.

[Keyper7]

Yes, but these drivers work on Windows platform (or Mac). And most of them are NOT Windows certificated, like you know.
How many years you will blame the others? instead of reverse engineering and making the appropriate Linux drivers? It is impossible? No, it isn't.

I'm sorry, what?

So Microsoft and Apple can lay down and wait for Teratec to write drivers for them, while Canonical has the obligation of reverse engineer them without any help from Teratec?

You are paying zero for Ubuntu and asking the developers to work more than the developers of systems you pay hundreds of dollars for?

Congratulations. You, sir, are the most selfish and ungrateful person I've ever known.

The Ubuntu developers are not your slaves. Stop treating them as such.

[Modplanman]

The ati-fglrx driver in the Ubuntu its own repository are "responsibility of their manufacturers, not Ubuntu"? How many peoples report problems with these drivers? One, or two? Problems, which make the OS inoperative... not glitches only.

It is ATI/Nvidia that provide and make them, therefore their responsibility.

You seriously expect Ubuntu to maintain everything in their repos, because that's what you're saying - thousands and thousands of programs, hundreds of thousands of individual packages. Yes, the repos are for Ubuntu, but their point is for easy software finding, adding and removing, not for Ubuntu to personally maintain everything. Not to mention you're talking about something that is in the universe/multiverse repositories (If I remember rightly), something that explicitly warns you when you enable them of said potential problems. Once again, Ubuntu cannot be held responsible. Said things are provided by 3rd parties, and are their responsibility - they are outside of Ubuntus control, and once gain, while many problems are reported, there's also many people who get them to work fine, not to mention they are needed because the users demand them and for the sake of general compatibility.

Once again, try finding out your problem rather than claiming the end of the world because your system didn't happen to work straight away.

[chewearn]

->A ha... he he he. The same thing. Why you do not upgrade?

It's risk management.


You know so much about Ubuntu.

Did I said that? No I didn't. Read back to the few posts I made here. Nowhere did I say I know a lot about Ubuntu.

What I did say is your ranting is doing no good to improve your situation.



The same thing here-fear from the crappy updates. But we present us like "brave boys" and tell to the "newbies" - "Upgrade boys,upgrade. You fail? no problem, you don't know the Ubuntu, you have unapropriate hardware, and so on,and so on. When all will be ok, i will upgrade too."
Human nature...
The others are wrong-they are dumb. NOT, "WE are incapable to produce good software".

I was giving you the benefit of doubt, that you are voicing frustration but willing to let others help you. But now it looks like I'm wrong.


Goodbye. You can continue to blame everyone but yourself. It's not my problem, and I'm going to stop feeding a troll.


.

[mivo]

How many years you will blame the others? instead of reverse engineering and making the appropriate Linux drivers? It is impossible? No, it isn't.

So get to work. In the time you spent on whining about no one else doing the work for you, you could have already reverse engineered half a driver. :)

If you can't, pay someone to do it, or at least provide someone with the printer that needs a driver. You are not a customer here. You do not and did not pay for Linux. Stop acting as if anyone owes you anything. No one does.

Read this. (http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm)

Apologies for the directness, but I felt a reality check was needed here.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hello again.

And if the ATI card doesn't work because of buggy or missing drivers, go out and buy another one - an Nvidia, for example. There's more fish in the sea, you know?

I have a problem with my second computer (Nvidia!) which won't run Ubuntu no matter what. Do i blame Ubuntu? Nope. It's a ****** combination of hardware (crap mainboard i guess) and i'll get another one.

Windows? No difference. I had a USB-WiFi thingy that worked in XP. When i got Vista - no luck, it didn't work. Comment from the manufacturer (device was about six months old): "Sorry, we don't support such outdated device with new drivers. You must buy a new one". I did - but NOT from that manufacturer. (I am actually sure it would work in Ubuntu - too bad i gave it away).

Backup? Dear, you do need to backup before you get a new OS, period. Windows, Mac or Linux. I have done Vista upgrades myself that went awry and ended up needing to reformat the HDD. And, like Windows, you need to learn how to make such backups. XP doesn't have the features out of the box, and in Vista you'll need Ultimate to get it. Otherwise you need to find, install, and learn to use extra software. No difference in Linux - just in Linux you can actually do it via command line without extra software (sorry i can't remember the command, but i read about it).

Heck i'm only fulltime Ubuntu user since 15 days but i am already quite used to the system, everything works and what doesn't will be made working :)

Oh, and updates - i have actually stopped those, too. Reading about how updates can break a system, i am applying the "never change a winning team" motto - and simply told Ubuntu not to update itself. Because, unlike Windows, updates are NOT forced upon you, it's your decision to get them or not (yeah you can disable it in Windows - but along WILL come software that DEMANDS such-and-such SP to be installed, or such-and-such update to be applied - let alone the massive security holes! And yup - Windows updates break systems, too - google for "XP SP3 startup loop" and see what i'm talking about).

Best regards.....

Thanh

[Modplanman]

The basic productivity is there, just because you had a problem does not mean the entire world is going to cave in or the four horsemen are going to arrive

Stop trolling, realise your problem is your configuration and fix it. If there wasn't a problem you wouldn't be here, and just because it's with Ubuntu doesn't mean Ubuntu is suddenly unusable for everyone.

That'll be the last I'll say on this.

[GepettoBR]

For a discussion that has been going on so long, I'm amazed that there are still so many childish arguments alongside the stronger ones. I'm both a Windows (XP) and Linux (Ubuntu Hardy Heron) user and I'm very happy with both. They serve different purposes. They have different strengths and weaknesses.

Like many, I was originally a Windows user. Windows worked great for me. I used OpenOffice and Firefox instead of MS Office and IE, partly because IE is terrible at security and MS Office has a nack for crashing every two and a half hours, and partly because I felt good using Open Source software. I also do a lot of digital video editing (a note on that: I have tried every existing piece of NLE available on Linux and while some of them are slightly more functional, they crash twice as often as the awful Windows Movie Maker. There is no feasible substitute for Sony Vegas, Adobe Premiere and Adobe AfterEffects in Linux, and none of them currently work under WINE). Encoding video is a resource-intensive job, which happened rather slowly on my modest 768MB DDR RAM and 1.3GHz Single-Core Celeron. Codecs are by excellence cross-platform command-line applications, and I had heard that Linux was much less resource-intensive than XP SP2, which is why I gave it a shot: I'd edit in Windows and encode in Linux.

I eventually decided to go with Ubuntu. I installed Gutsy in January this year. Apart from a few problems caused by my old CD drive failing very often (a hardware problem not related to either OS) the installation was a breeze, and took exactly half the time it had taken to install Windows on the same computer a few years earlier (1h15min vs 2h32min - I'm a benchmark freak). All my hardware was detected OOTB and worked perfectly. The two exceptions were getting my PS/2 mouse to work instead of my Synaptcs Touchpad (easily fixed by disabling the latter, Windows did the switch automatically when I plugged in the mouse) and my ATI card, which refused to work with TV-Out (something that worked perfectly in Windows). I got it to work in Gutsy by sacrificing all 3D capabilities and Compiz-Fusion (which I previously had working with a ton of fancy effects using the same amount of resources as my XP install, which was heavily tweaked for speed). In Hardy, neither Compiz nor TV-Out work.

I then decided to go wireless, and bought a Kaiomy USB adaptor that was flaky in Windows and dead in Gutsy. I switched for a D-Link model. The Windows drivers worked (though the connection still fails every few minutes and a reconnect is needed) and fifteen minutes of googling plus five minutes of tweaking got it to work in Gutsy as well. Gutsy worked much faster than XP, so I decided to do the opposite of what I had originally planned. Instead of using Windows for everyday tasks and only booting into Ubuntu for the resource hog that is encoding HD video, I switched to using Ubuntu for everything except the editing process, gaming and my attempts to learn 3D modelling (Blender works under Windows, but not under Ubuntu - I blame it on the godawful Linux ATI drivers). The update to Hardy (apart from the aforementioned death of my TV-Out) only brought advantages: My wireless card works OOTB, so no new fix was required, the system boots and shuts down faster, Firefox 3 is no longer an ugly mutant that refuses to blend in with my Metacity theme and the default wallpaper is great (not that I kept it). I now only use Windows for the sake of watching stuff on my TV and using software that I can't equiparate with Linux or WINE.

So what are my thoughts on the issue?

1- LINUX IS NOT WINDOWS, BUT THAT WON'T MATTER FOR MOST PEOPLE. All the problems I had in Ubuntu came from trying to achieve functionality that the average user doesn't need. For office tasks, email, web browsing, wasting time on YouTube (I gave up on gnash, but flashplugin-nonfree works perfect) and idly playing little games (not WoW, just your average Solitaire or chess) it's simply a matter of finding things in the menu, which is incidentally auto-organized into simple categories. Windows should learn from that. For these kinds of tasks there is no difference whatsoever. In fact, Linux is more productive since it's less likely to crash (that still happens though) and even if you manage to do something really dumb, unless you're root (which you aren't on default, so the average computer user shouldn't be) you won't jeopardize the entire system, unlike what happens with Windows.

2- HARDWARE DRIVERS SUCK. LIVE WITH IT. Windows isn't perfect either. Its easy to install the driver from a CD but if you lose the CD and want to bring your peripherals to another computer, or (more common) have to reinstall Windows because the Registry has become such a huge mess that you take several minutes to log onto a functioning Desktop, you're toast. Windows supports more hardware, and it works better, but you're tied to a little piece of plastic, lest you buy another identical product just for the CD. Windows auto-downloads drivers for lots of things, like USB hard drives, but then so does Ubuntu. ATI sucks in Linux, that's true. And that's a huge flaw, since ATI is a giant, and supplies a huge chunk of the demand for graphics cards. Windows has an immense advantage on this field. But my D-Link DWL-G122 is an example of hardware that works three times better in Linux than Windows.

3- YES, IT IS UBUNTU'S FAULT THAT WE DON'T HAVE DRIVERS. It's a very shallow argument when you blame hardware manufacturers for not spending roughly the same time and money to make a driver for the Linux kernel as they do for the Windows and OSX kernels, considering the astronomical difference in user-base (aka profit potential) of these platforms. Especially since they know we'll write them ourselves anyways. We should applaud companies like Adobe and HP for going out of their way to (try and) help us, and worship Google for their immense investments in projects like WINE, because for them, on short-term, it's money well lost. As the Linux user-base grows, so will hardware support, and as hardware support grows, so will the user-base. These kinds of curves are exponential, we just happen to be closer to the horizontal end of that curve than we'd like. If you absolutely don't want to have a headache with hardware, stick to Windows. If you don't mind having to research most new parts you buy, you're welcome to use Linux. But don't take the rest of us for idiots and say that manufacturers are the bad guys just because they aren't interested in throwing away their money for our sake.

4- GIMP IS NOT PHOTOSHOP. Not even close. GIMP is good, but Photoshop is way better, and if you disagree then you've never really explored all of Photoshop's functions. Evolution is not Outlook, Open Office and KOffice are not MS Office, Totem is not Windows Media Player, Nautilus and Dolphin are not Windows Explorer, Epiphany and Galeon are not Internet Explorer, and Cinelerra is lightyears away from being Premiere. They aren't meant to be alike, so don't expect them to. Some are better, some are worse, and some just might have exactly the same functionalities and lacks thereof. On the other hand, Firefox is Firefox, Thunderbird is Thunderbird, Blender is Blender, mencoder is mencoder and lots of things work (poorly) on WINE. I think Ubuntu would be a lot better if it ran Premiere, but I also think Windows would kick *** with Amarok running. It's a matter of choice, and weighing what you want from your system.

5- YOU'RE PAYING FOR ALL THE ADVANTAGES OF WINDOWS. The overwhelming majority of Linux distros are free, and if your hardware isn't too unusual, chances are the drivers will work. Your pockets thank you.

and finally

6- YOU CAN RUN BOTH, FOR PETE'S SAKE! I can enjoy the wonderful ATI drivers in Windows and a constant, fast connection to the internet without the risks of viruses in Ubuntu. I can create videos so full of bling that the very computer that makes them will refuse to play them realtime, using the best available PC video suite to date, but not take over two hours post-processing and encoding the damn thing just because Windows has to use half my RAM to keep itself from crashing. Granted, I can't do both at the same time, but if I had the hardware to do it, I could just use VMware. Besides, neither takes too long to boot. I rely on both, and appreciate both for their advantages. However, after having used every Desktop-oriented Windows release since Windows 3.1, tried a miscellania of different LiveCDs for months and witnessed the evolution of Ubuntu from the Feisty betas (which I only used as LiveCDs) to Hardy, I am of the opinion that in six or seven years, the average Linux distribution will be far ahead of Windows in most aspects.
If you think Windows is better for you at this point, you're probably right. We'll miss you - but you will come back.

note: the lack of almost any reference to Macs is due to my lack of experience with them, having spent at most a total of thirty minutes at the command of one my whole life.

[mivo]

3- YES, IT IS UBUNTU'S FAULT THAT WE DON'T HAVE DRIVERS. It's a very shallow argument when you blame hardware manufacturers for not spending roughly the same time and money to make a driver for the Linux kernel as they do for the Windows and OSX kernels, considering the astronomical difference in user-base (aka profit potential) of these platforms.

The Linux user base is arguably larger than the Mac user base. The difference is certainly not astronomical. If hardware manufacturers don't want to develop a driver (which is less expensive and time-consuming than you believe), they could sponsor a few hardware devices for Linux developers or, if that is still asking for too much (it isn't: years ago when I worked for a number of magazines, I'd frequently receive free hardware for reviews that was not asked back, even if no review was published, and that's common place even today), they can provide the hardware specifications. If they do neither, then yes, I blame them and don't buy their stuff.

Unpaid developers are willing to do the work for the companies that make money by selling hardware. Should they pay for it on top of volunteering their time and knowledge?

[Panzerino]

GepettoBR <<<-- respect. Agree with you.

One man from Brasil make Creative drivers better than Creative itself, with full functionality in Vista.

Nobody in the Ubuntu are able to make ATI drivers for these cards???

I do not ask for compiz. I'm asking for decent playback, no blue,black screens, decent upgrade. I.e.-simple functionality.

[OmniCloud]

Mods? Why is this thread here?

Seriously, there's some decent post here, but an overwhelmingly batch of bashing/trolling/annoying post going on.

I'm just wondering why mods are just shutting stuff like this down and banning fools?


@Panzerino...I would direct you to actually read what Linux is all about. You know, Wiki it...

I feel you man, somethings just don't work like they should. Somethings work perfectly with tweaking. Some work perfectly right after you boot-up.

I don't think you clearly understand free software and the very nature of running a Linux OS.

Let me put it in perspective. This is about the ONLY linux forum you could get away with posting the way you are. I hope you can take away something from that.

[Panzerino]

"...Why is this thread here? "

->This thread here is the only place for sincere conversations about real problems. I read these forums about 2 years. Some of the people here, which are in some kind more experienced in Linux/Ubuntu, are truly disrespectful toward all of us, with some basic problems. They react toward the rest of the people here like "gods". And do not understand that simply we like this software, we like the idea behind, we like and are not reluctant to abandon good programs and software in scope to support these efforts here.

Sorry if you didn't understand this.
I will find my way... .

[OmniCloud]

"...Why is this thread here? "

->This thread here is the only place for sincere conversations about real problems. I read these forums about 2 years. Some of the people here, which are in some kind more experienced in Linux/Ubuntu, are truly disrespectful toward all of us, with some basic problems. They react toward the rest of the people here like "gods". And do not understand that simply we like this software, we like the idea behind, we like and are not reluctant to abandon good programs and software in scope to support these efforts here.

Sorry if you didn't understand this.
I will find my way... .I don't disagree. And your last sentence is good enough for me. That's the Linux way IMO. You have to find your own way. Check out my start date and look at how many post I've made. I've always kept up with the buntus, doesn't mean I necessarily have to post here.

on a side note, this place is by far the most user-friendly forums I've ever visited. So, there's a nice people where ever you go.

On a personal note, I hang out in Fedora/Debian/ forums and there's some really cool people there. arch is pretty awesome too.

[Panzerino]

I really like Ubuntu. And want to work with.
And sure- there is much obstacles, much work behind and in the future.
In many moments i have the feel, that some peoples here, deeply in the "kernel flags problems" do not understand that for the 98% of the people here the simple things matter-the printing quality, fonts rendering, monitor refresh rates and so on. Not the high sophisticated issues.

What is the significance of moths of hard work, if the monitor give you black screen after simple and clean install??
What is the significance of moths of hard work if the printer print in LOW quality only?

[Modplanman]

I really like Ubuntu. And want to work with.
And sure- there is much obstacles, much work behind and in the future.
In many moments i have the feel, that some peoples here, deeply in the "kernel flags problems" do not understand that for the 98% of the people here the simple things matter-the printing quality, fonts rendering, monitor refresh rates and so on. Not the high sophisticated issues.

What is the significance of moths of hard work, if the monitor give you black screen after simple and clean install??
What is the significance of moths of hard work if the printer print in LOW quality only?

Not all those months of work go into printers, most of that work does not go into an ATI driver when we already have a ATI driver that works reasonably well, save a few problems here and there.

Once again, your problem is not indicative of everyone, yet you continue to appear to make this basic misunderstanding, along with other misunderstandings about who handles what and where the work has gone.

Not everything is going to work OoTB 100%, ever. That would be impossible, and once again, maybe there is just something in particular about your hardware configuration that set you back after you upgraded. Once again, seek actual help for it, instead of making threads like these where the conversation just goes in cycles, no on really gets anywhere and it doesn't help anything.

People have explained this to you dozens of times, but you refuse to listen and talk down to them with phrases like ubuntu boy. Right now I'm surprised if any dev would want to work to make your specific PC work better in Ubuntu,

[chinaski]

Nobody in the Ubuntu are able to make ATI drivers for these cards???

listen, write an email to ATI customers service and tell THEM you are a Linux user and expect the PRODUCER to offer products compatible with MAIN OSs

otherwise just get yourself an nVidia card

you sound like a child, man

[Panzerino]

@Modplanman

I will find solution for myself. Let this is not your concern dear. I do not need your help.
But it is obviously that you must change the tone.
It is my job what i will, or not, write here or anywhere.

"...of making threads like these where the conversation just goes in cycles, no on really gets anywhere and it doesn't help anything."
Your personal opinion. Does not make this sounds like everyone here are on the same wave like you. The thread was already open-i do not open any thread here.
Second-i wrote here ONLY ON the subject of the thread.

That's all folks.
Be at good health...

[Modplanman]

@Modplanman

I will find solution for myself. Let this is not your concern dear. I do not need your help.
But it is obviously that you must change the tone.
It is my job what i will, or not, write here or anywhere.
The thread was already open-i do not open any thread here.
Second-i wrote here ONLY ON the subject of the thread.

That's all folks.
Be at good health...

What was wrong with my tone. I thought it was neutral and calm.

Secondly, that's exactly what I'm talking about. You talk about these problems, then refuse to let anyone help, then act condescendingly by referring to me by "dear", if that was your intention.

[Keyper7]

Hi GepettoBR, another brazilian here. :)

While you do have a lot of valid points, I feel obliged to comment on two of them:

But don't take the rest of us for idiots and say that manufacturers are the bad guys just because they aren't interested in throwing away their money for our sake.

Okay, I agree.

Now replace the hardware manufacturers in your argument by Ubuntu developers: people who have no access to the hardware specifications, that need time and effort to reverse engineer Windows drivers and probably won't profit anything from doing it. I doubt even Canonical employees will see a difference in their salaries if they do so. At most, they'll have something extra in their curriculum.

Does it sound correct to point the finger at them, constantly demand drivers for your hardware and insinuate that this should be easy, thus implying that they are lazy or incompetent (yes, it does imply that, there's no other way to interpret it) while doing nothing to contribute?

Because that's what Panzerino is doing. I think hardware manufacturers should make drivers for Linux, but as you eloquently pointed out, they have few reasons to do so. Well, Ubuntu developers have less reasons to do so, and less conditions (read: specifications), and yet Panzerino feels it's correct to shout at them like they were his slaves and belittle them by comparing Linux drivers to Windows/OSX drivers that were made by the hardware manufacturer. At the end of the day, he's the guy calling people "bad guys" because they don't want to contribute their time for his sake.

That goes beyond simple criticism or frustration. It's nothing less than disrespect, ingratitude and insult. It's selfishness, pure and simple.

4- GIMP IS NOT PHOTOSHOP. Not even close. GIMP is good, but Photoshop is way better, and if you disagree then you've never really explored all of Photoshop's functions.

As a former Photoshop user, I agree.

But one must also think how relevant this point is to the average user. Photoshop is very expensive, and this has a reason: it's a software aimed at professional image editors. The problem is, it unfortunately became some kind of obligatory standard for anyone who wants to do image editing, even when simpler software like Paint Shop Pro would work just as good. The fact that anyone can download a pirated version does not help as well.

You, of course, have a point since you professionally need Adobe's software. But Photoshop is not a obligatory standard for an image editor for a lot of people. In fact, lots of people agree that its interface sucks for simple tasks.

I'd recommend Photoshop over GIMP for professional image editing any day, but I do web design and GIMP never lacked anything for me. My point is: I see so much of this "Photoshop better than GIMP" FUD that I have the impression that 90% of the world population are professional image editors who need all functions Photoshop provides.

[Panzerino]

Hm... again this song... .

Without working drivers you have almost nothing. They make these drivers NOT for me, but for all those people, who had Terratec Phase 28, ATI Radeon 1650Pro AGP and other hardware. All those people, who wants to make "the transition", but are unable to do so. This hardware is not a CRAP hardware-this is very good and capable hardware. Without drivers it is nothing. Why to go to my old Radeon 9550 simply because it is a "must" for Ubuntu, because there is not working drivers available for the new cards? My Terratec Phase 28 is unbelievable piece of hardware. Why to transform her to one cheap crappy card simply because you have "other philosophy", or you are on the wave of some illusions, or have endless amount of money to buy for every new operating system new hardware?
Where is the "selfishness" here?

When you start to make the meal, you start with the ingredients. Not with the species. For me the compiz/Beryl is without sense. I do not use them. For me my full sound card functionality is the base.

Whatsoever in Linux/Ubuntu world is not possible, and good and fairly orientated peoples point at this hot spots, unbelievable waves of personal criticism,characterizations,disparagingly personal comments arises.

Simply do this-like everyone of us make her/his job.
Where is the "selfishness" here?
Or simply tell-"Boys this will not work for you".

[Panzerino]

Sorry for disturbing the "saint" souls here.
Bye...

[karellen]

I'd recommend Photoshop over GIMP for professional image editing any day, but I do web design and GIMP never lacked anything for me. My point is: I see so much of this "Photoshop better than GIMP" FUD that I have the impression that 90% of the world population are professional image editors who need all functions Photoshop provides.

so very true. I wonder how many of those who preach Photoshop almost like a mantra (Photoshop is way better than Gimp, Gimp sucks and so on) had bought it legally (and paid the huge price, at least for my standards)


Sorry for disturbing the "saint" souls here.
Bye...

bye

[bapoumba]

Hmm.. Getting heated around here. 24 hours cool off period.

[bwallum]

Ah, come'on, if the guy finds something that suits better then thats a plus. It won't change the world. If you want to help others migrate to a more friendly OS then lay off the pressure. I'm a Linux convert, we are early adopters, it takes a certain perseverance but once there you know a lot more. The world will follow, no need to offend.

[scarrabri]

Tut Tut ,its not Goodbye ,because you will be back,theres millions of people using ubuntu,and love it ,and are you sure you can go away knowing that you never managed to get ubuntu up and running,see you soon my friend Brian

[zxscooby]

Anyone else notice this thread is like 2 years old? lol
I think this dude has moved on to the windows help forums.

Windows nube please help!!!!!1111!!

I seem to have gotten this nasty virus while defragging my
hdd and now my norton wont work. How could i have gotten hacked
with norton??!!!!
Pleeeeze help.
Linuxsux08427

[starcannon]

This thread is "so like 2 years ago" zomg wtf why did I post... interwebs has me in its 1337 grips... must... click... submit... button...

[cashman286]

I've left Ubuntu a while ago...it wouldn't detect my wireless card no matter what I did, with tons of attempted online instructions, even from this forum! Everything else worked perfect...just not my wireless card :(.

[Canis familiaris]

I've left Ubuntu a while ago...it wouldn't detect my wireless card no matter what I did, with tons of attempted online instructions, even from this forum! Everything else worked perfect...just not my wireless card :(.

Is the wireless card Boradcom's?

[skybro]

I had everything work except the wireless card, then with some simple Ubuntu Forum help, re-installed madwifi, and now I have a PERFECZT UBUNTU install on a new 17" laptop!!!!!!!!!

[jakspanna27]

I guess some people prefer to stay in the dark, oh well!!
Maybe with one less I can get some of my questions answered in forums. "hoping"

[victor.zamanian]

Keep up the hate!

http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/07/20/1457250&from=rss

[dreaminhere]

Well, I read the first couple pages and the last page. I'm a new linux user and thought I'd share my insights. I'm a power windows user, windows programmer, and windows setup and help desk guy. I like learning new things, was tired of AVG eating up resources, and needed 64bit, didn't want to pay windows licence fees per proc, so I thought I'd try out linux. I built my computer - intel quad core, 4 gig ram, 3 hard drives raid 0 and a nice screen. I need to run a virtualization system to run my windows programming things. I run on a verizon usb internet connection. It would take me about a day to set up my computer under windows. For linux, it took me two weeks. Most of that was unfamiliarity with linux and finding answers to things. Here's the things I found that I see as hinderences for linux adoption

Setting up raid. It wasn't too difficult to set it up, but it was a nightmare to figure out how to do it. I couldn't use the MOBO raid and had to download an alt install to set it up. Who would have known?

terminal window work. I started with dos, windows 3.1 and know how to use the windows terminal window. But the average user needs to just point and click and be done. Just to get my dvd to play movies was a lot of terminal work. The answers were there and it was copy and paste, but you can't expect a new user to do that.

Overall impressions, the setup was extremely frustrating. I'm up and running now and I'm happy with my computer. The add programs feature is really cool. Nothing like it in windows. I'm sure that if a person would buy a computer with linux pre-installed, they would most likely be happy with it, except that they couldn't ask their neighbor for help when they have a problem.

Virtualization and playonlinux are great! I think that if linux really wants to become the main operating system, they need to do a few things.
1. Make installs work without the terminal window.
2. Enable window apps to run on linux.
3. Better hardware support. Windows always has problems with drivers when they roll out a new operating system, but it still works on more machines than linux does. Maybe linux needs an automated driver conversion tool.

One other thing, In windows I can move my "my docs" folder anywhere. It would be great to have something that would allow you to move the linux home folder where you want it without having linux not start up.

Barring a catastrophe or lots of little irritations, I think I'm staying with linux. But at this point, I shudder at the thought of setting up anybody elses computer with linux. I'm sure a simple setup would go better than mine, but it was way to much work.

Linux has come a long way. Keep it up.

[chrisj1226]

Look, I had to do an f-disk, format, then mbr record repair in order to get my machine to be able to run xp again. I lost all of 75% of a 30G HDD, but that's why we have BACKUP. Either I'm stupid, or have a thist to learn (jury's still out), but here I am again, trying to not make the same mistakes I made before, and thought it would be a good idea to re-install Ubuntu. I'm not done yet, will continue to hack away at it.

[kellemes]

1. Make installs work without the terminal window.
2. Enable window apps to run on linux.
3. Better hardware support. Windows always has problems with drivers when they roll out a new operating system, but it still works on more machines than linux does. Maybe linux needs an automated driver conversion tool.

One other thing, In windows I can move my "my docs" folder anywhere. It would be great to have something that would allow you to move the linux home folder where you want it without having linux not start up.


1. This is a complicated issue, in order to have some point-click package manager install a package, the package needs to be made for the specific linux distribution, this because there are a lot of different package managers in use. Developers will not be able to create all these different package-formats for a hole bunch of distributions, and also the package may need to be different with Ubuntu X as with Ubuntu Y.
2. I don't think this should be an issue to be honest, I'm much more in favor of platform independent developing.
If Adobe Dreamweaver is the webdesigner you need, you should boot-up Windows, that's the platform it's made for.
3. The hardware support on Linux is much better as with Windows, it may be that hardware vendors need to spend more resources on developing drivers for Linux, or open source the hardware specs of there devices so the open source community can develop there own drivers.

About moving the /home folder.. Why do you want this?

[kellemes]

(jury's still out)

They're back..
You're learning. That's a compliment, a lot of folks aren't.
Case closed.

[swoll1980]

Sorry guys and gals, I'm gave it a shot and I;m going to have to say good bye to Linux and Ubuntu. Without wireless support and an easy way to install programs, this is something that I'm not going to get. I'm a windows user and that's all there is to it.

I tried, but it just isn't going to work.

just realized how old this was

[jmacg]

The first time I used Synaptic, which was to install XMMS, it offered me a whole stack of filenames and none of them stood out as the one to choose for installation.

'Fuschia', above, said anyone who couldn't use Synaptic must be a retarded drunk. Well I don't consider myself retarded and I certainly wasn't drunk. Was I confused? Most certainly.

Program installation in Linux is far too often a pain in the butt. It's a huge barrier to wider acceptance of Linux. It's an issue that is brought up time and again on forums and blogsites. If arrogant prats like Fuscia joined the real world occasionally, they might appreciate the problem better.

[OzzyFrank]

The first time I used Synaptic, which was to install XMMS, it offered me a whole stack of filenames and none of them stood out as the one to choose for installation.

Hmmm... I'm trying to figure out in what weird way you were trying to use Synaptic... as all I ever had to do was search for xmms (or whatever program) inside Synaptic, mark it for installation, and away you go! Which makes that earlier remark (spacedogg) about how hard it is to install programs into Ubuntu using Synaptic seem rather confused. I've had total newbies spin out how easy and fast it is to search for and install programs via Synaptic. Some made the jump to Ubuntu and away from Windows based solely on this factor. So, guys, I really don't know what the problem is, or what on earth you are doing wrong, hehe...

[CarlosNYB]

Well, I read the first couple pages and the last page. I'm a new linux user and thought I'd share my insights. I'm a power windows user, windows programmer, and windows setup and help desk guy. I like learning new things, was tired of AVG eating up resources, and needed 64bit, didn't want to pay windows licence fees per proc, so I thought I'd try out linux.

Much appreciated.

I built my computer - intel quad core, 4 gig ram, 3 hard drives raid 0 and a nice screen. I need to run a virtualization system to run my windows programming things. I run on a verizon usb internet connection. It would take me about a day to set up my computer under windows. For linux, it took me two weeks. Most of that was unfamiliarity with linux and finding answers to things. Here's the things I found that I see as hinderences for linux adoption

The more complicated the hardware and setup, the more issues which could arise. Sometimes there is a learning curve. Doing something new AND complicated can make things a bit more challenging.

Setting up raid. It wasn't too difficult to set it up, but it was a nightmare to figure out how to do it. I couldn't use the MOBO raid and had to download an alt install to set it up. Who would have known?

Documentation and ease-of-use/install has improved MUCH in recent years, but on some subjects it is harder to find the right documentation to figure out just what app you need, for a particular distro, etc.

terminal window work. I started with dos, windows 3.1 and know how to use the windows terminal window. But the average user needs to just point and click and be done. Just to get my dvd to play movies was a lot of terminal work. The answers were there and it was copy and paste, but you can't expect a new user to do that.

Our mileage may vary. Sometimes just following some simple instructions to allow restricted drivers, etc., for example, can do the trick, on some things. Sometimes terminal commands are given but there is an easy way to do it point and click or through synaptic, but the manual/help that is found on the internet is in terminal form. It can be confusing/intimidating, especially for a new user, yes.

Overall impressions, the setup was extremely frustrating. I'm up and running now and I'm happy with my computer. The add programs feature is really cool. Nothing like it in windows. I'm sure that if a person would buy a computer with linux pre-installed, they would most likely be happy with it, except that they couldn't ask their neighbor for help when they have a problem.

Understandable. Because I'm not messing with virtualization, RAID, etc., my experience was more of what I think an 'average joe' would have in installing basic Ubuntu and getting it working for internet, word processing, printing, wifi, etc. My experience was smooth. I did have to learn about a gnome gui for installing wireless windows drivers, but my dad's Dell laptop had no problem with wifi on the live CD and my mom's computer also worked fine with the live CD in every way. So with this experience I wouldn't be concerned about the 'average joe' user, provided they didn't have one of those quirky hardware issues (that sometimes happens, stuff that uses closed-source drivers that just aren't well supported, due to the manufacturer's closed source). That being said, I was amazed that out of the box my dad's wifi worked, and their printer (HP) worked so easily, etc., everything was a breaze for me. Some people just have a more difficult hardware setup for one reason or another, unfortunately. Sometimes nothing can be done about it because it's in the hardware manufacturer's hands.

Re: window apps running on linux. Think of Mac's. If the manufacturer doesn't want to port to Mac or to Windows, then you have a product that only works on either Mac or Windows, and that's that. Linux can only do so much with VMware, emulators, etc. It's amazing these work-arounds work at all, and work very well with as many apps as they do. But at some point it's a question of what software companies do, how they make their product, and linux can't force them to change.

Something like an automatic driver conversion tool would only be able to work depending on the STANDARDS used by the authors of hardware drivers, which again, linux programmers cannot control. Some machines can't run Mac OSX, etc. Some hardware simlpy won't work on Mac, or Windows, etc.

You can move the home directory to another partition.

I would certainly like to see more manufacturers and software companies use standards which are more conducive to porting to Linux or for Linux developers to work with.

Linux has come a long way. Keep it up.

Agreed!

[georgegerm]

but i must say i am having all kind of problems at times mainly with an old thinkpad and its modem 56k...
i am using it with mint linux distro as xbuntu would not install properly (it has 400 itel pro with 320 ram)
it should work but does not so mint linux was the only one i could get in and now i cannot even get windows 98 back on it ,, with ease anyway
so yes linux and ubu or xubu have issues,,
and they will persist
hardy is new and its in my newby opinion a bit not ripe enough
yet my laptop runs on it but it was preisntalled by dell
my point is i guess ubu is an alternative that i hope will kick windows out the door soon
and it will keep old pc and laptops working, yes thats is important not just the new stuff
but i will stick to ubu till it lets me down
and i also believe the support gets at times confusing or the answers assume you have a lot of knowledge on linux or ubu that must change
all said
viva ubu:guitar:

[dreaminhere]

2. I don't think this should be an issue to be honest, I'm much more in favor of platform independent developing.

I'm in favor of the platform independent developing as well, but one reason that a lot of users don't choose linux is that it doesn't run the programs (or games!) they want. If you make linux able to run programs made for Windows, you will have a big incentive to switch to linux because of cost without giving up things. I see that as a big advantage for linux and the only way to make windows go away (for those in the "M is evil camp".

[dreaminhere]

I tried moving the home folder so I could change the drive around. It ended up costing me a reinstall. Most likely cause I didn't know what I was doing, but it sure was easy to mess up. My main concern is that of backup right now since I'm running on a 3 drive raid 0 (I luv the speed).

What is the best way to backup the /home folder so I get everything?

[cuby]

What is the best way to backup the /home folder so I get everything?

try the "simple backup restore"... it is in the repositories.
if you want to backup things periodicly you will need a separate drive for this. In alternative you can do manual backups to external drives.

[Tech Eddie]

I haven't bothered to read all the posts but...


Well, ubuntu does suck!

why?

1) Look at openSuse for example! There is serious development of both KDE AND Gnome! Kubuntu is quite frankly a joke compared to openSuse with KDE! And why this whole other version of ubuntu instead of just ubuntu with KDE? Why a Xubuntu? Is it really necessary or just waste of resources at canonical?

2) Whats all this human rubbish? It is rather obvious that canonical doesn't use focus groups. openSuse for example comes with a quick start manual ready right after install!

3) Lots of ubuntu users have had problems with the system hanging (complete freeze, hard reset required) and there has been no response from canonical about it. There are no error messages in the error logs either. No one seems to have a clue about whats causing it. There is a very long thread somewhere in these forums about it. (lost the name of the thread, sorry)

4) Why the new ubuntu version every 6 months? All that changes are the version numbers of the apps and a kernel image upgrade. Does this really warrent a new version?

5) The bug number 1 or whatever. Nobody who really is in the know really believes that ubuntu is something microsoft should be worried about. Microsoft would much more likely be worried about the growing Mac sales than Linux still being at lowly 3-4% share of the desktop market. All this 2009 will be the year that Linux finally hits it big is bull. Linux (and therefore ubuntu) will never be mainstream but just sit there at its 3-4 %. Hell, even Steve Jobs won't be losing sleep about linux (even though OS X is linux based!).

6) Whats with the weird names of the apps? Why oh why must apps have names like amarok instead of for example Daves Linux Media Player? Why doesn't any ubuntu apps say what they are for in the name?

7) Ubuntu doesn't access windows NTFS drives well (my experience).

8 Most brands of printers do not have a driver for ubuntu/linux and therfore don't work in linux/ubuntu.

9) X server sucks! Every time there is a new kernel image I had to uninstall and reinstall the nvidia driver. Using envy makes it easier but didn't solve this.

10) Wine and other emulators. You don't install ubuntu/linux just to run stuff in an emulator. No photoshop in ubuntu/linux. GIMP is good but if you are working professionally GIMP doesn't cut it. Besides that the interface is just to plain weird and the colours aren't exact. Why run it in an emulator when you have a windows partition?

11) Windows XP with service pack 3 is a stable operating system and in my experience never crashes or hangs so this argument is no longer relevant.

Goodbye ubuntu!

[russlar]

FYI: most of the gripes here are about Linux OSes in general.

[Sephoroth]

1) Look at openSuse for example! There is serious development of both KDE AND Gnome! Kubuntu is quite frankly a joke compared to openSuse with KDE! And why this whole other version of ubuntu instead of just ubuntu with KDE? Why a Xubuntu? Is it really necessary or just waste of resources at canonical?

I personally do prefer OpenSuSE with KDE4 to the equivalent on Ubuntu (had some problems and was too lazy to fix them XD). Anyways, why not a Xubuntu? Many do have lower end computers and rather not spend so many resources towards their desktop environment.

4) Why the new ubuntu version every 6 months? All that changes are the version numbers of the apps and a kernel image upgrade. Does this really warrent a new version

The Ubuntu release cycle is based on that of GNOME. Having more frequent releases permits for a shorter support cycle and therefore prevents people from seeking large amounts of support from versions that are many years old. For those who want the more stable/supported release, there is a reason LTS releases exist.

5) The bug number 1 or whatever. Nobody who really is in the know really believes that ubuntu is something microsoft should be worried about. Microsoft would much more likely be worried about the growing Mac sales than Linux still being at lowly 3-4% share of the desktop market. All this 2009 will be the year that Linux finally hits it big is bull. Linux (and therefore ubuntu) will never be mainstream but just sit there at its 3-4 %. Hell, even Steve Jobs won't be losing sleep about linux (even though OS X is linux based!).

Well first of all, Mac OS X isn't Linux based (BSD and Mach). The plus side against Apple is Microsoft can always compete with them easily. Linux on the other hand encourages competition intensely (hard to compete with a free/open-source product) therefore forcing MS and Apple to remain competitive. Anyways, I do not see how this is a flaw with Ubuntu but rather at most a misconception with its users.

6) Whats with the weird names of the apps? Why oh why must apps have names like amarok instead of for example Daves Linux Media Player? Why doesn't any ubuntu apps say what they are for in the name?

Why does Windows use weird names like "Aero" and "Luna"? Why does Mac OS X have to place an "i" in front of anything.

7) Ubuntu doesn't access windows NTFS drives well (my experience).

OK? Windows does not read from ext3 partitions by default. What is your point? For me my NTFS drive has been readable/writable fine out of the box since Gutsy Gibbon (I had it working in Feisty Fawn though).

8 Most brands of printers do not have a driver for ubuntu/linux and therfore don't work in linux/ubuntu.

Buy a compatible one then? To me that is like saying "Windows does not support the PS3 and therefore sucks."

9) X server sucks! Every time there is a new kernel image I had to uninstall and reinstall the nvidia driver. Using envy makes it easier but didn't solve this.

I've never had that problem on my Nvidia 6800 so I can't comment here.

10) Wine and other emulators. You don't install ubuntu/linux just to run stuff in an emulator. No photoshop in ubuntu/linux. GIMP is good but if you are working professionally GIMP doesn't cut it. Besides that the interface is just to plain weird and the colours aren't exact. Why run it in an emulator when you have a windows partition?

Wine Is Not an Emulator; it is a compatibility layer. I personally prefer GIMP to photoshop but how does poor Adobe support change how decent of a platform Linux is? To me that is like me saying Amarok does not exist on Windows (yet) and therefore it sucks.

11) Windows XP with service pack 3 is a stable operating system and in my experience never crashes or hangs so this argument is no longer relevant.

How does this relate to Linux o.O?

Goodbye ubuntu!

Goodbye. I hope I didn't sound rude in this and I doubt my post will make much of a difference on your opinion. I just didn't see how most of your points justified how good of an OS something is.

[caravel]

I hate to say it, put this poster is merely trolling and hasn't a clue what he is talking about. He's clutching at straws trying to find anything and everything negative.

Just because Nvidia and ATI don't provide reliable open source drivers for Linux does not mean that this is a problem with the X Server. This also applies to printer manufacturers. It's their responsibility to provide drivers.

[gingin]

I would like to add same remarks to discussion. I have installed Ubuntu in bunch of computers beside windows for mine friends.And they are quite happy with it, but... .
The reasons why people can not use pure Ubuntu and get rid of windows is:
1. Wireless problem. Difficult to get working.
2. Net banking.JAVA script doest really works in the same way as in windows.

Those problems why they must keep windows. Wasted 10 GB. in a hard drive.
Lets think about it.Solving those problems will increase Ubuntu popularity enormous.
Personally I can't write software programs.I wish I can. Lets hope as in new Ubuntu release those problems will not be forgotten.

Guys thanks a lot for giving world Ubuntu

[zolts]

Maybe you can try to get a dual boot first.
Use windows as your main, then learn linux along the way.

Anyway, all the best with windows. :P

Thats what i did and i'm loving it. Windows is getting boring and simple but I'm keeping it in case issues arise with Ubuntu. But i love Ubuntu's simple layout it doesn't feel as bloated as windows and it feels more modern as well as loads of great softwre out the box LONG LIVE Ubuntu Linux :guitar:

All i need to do now is learn how to use Wine and get programs to start automatically when Ubuntu starts

[aysiu]

I would like to add same remarks to discussion. I have installed Ubuntu in bunch of computers beside windows for mine friends.And they are quite happy with it, but... .
The reasons why people can not use pure Ubuntu and get rid of windows is:
1. Wireless problem. Difficult to get working.
2. Net banking.JAVA script doest really works in the same way as in windows. I have no doubt your friends encountered those problems, but when I bought a wireless card for Ubuntu, I researched to find Linux-friendly ones, and I didn't have any difficulty getting it working. Then I bought a computer with Linux preinstalled, so I didn't have to do anything to get it working.

And I've never heard about Javascript working differently in Ubuntu than in Windows. So Firefox in Windows rendered the site differently than Firefox in Ubuntu? You know, you can use Internet Explorer in Ubuntu... or a bank that isn't IE-only (I've never had problems online banking).

[steveneddy]

I have no doubt your friends encountered those problems, but when I bought a wireless card for Ubuntu, I researched to find Linux-friendly ones, and I didn't have any difficulty getting it working. Then I bought a computer with Linux preinstalled, so I didn't have to do anything to get it working.

And I've never heard about Javascript working differently in Ubuntu than in Windows. So Firefox in Windows rendered the site differently than Firefox in Ubuntu? You know, you can use Internet Explorer in Ubuntu... or a bank that isn't IE-only (I've never had problems online banking).

Same thoughts here.

I bought a System76 laptop more than 18 months ago and it runs Ubuntu wonderfully.

Internet banking for me is no issue.

It is always a good idea to make sure that the hardware is compatible with the Operating System you are using at the time.

We also use alternate versions of Linux on various boxes around the house if one doesn't run well on any particular box.

My daughter runs PC Linux OS, installed it herself and has no problems.

I use Ubuntu on my laptop and my server.

Those who have issues either have incompatible hardware, a lack of knowledge or understanding or play too much with a new OS and complain that it is someone's fault but their own when something breaks.

[freeridr]

Been using Ubuntu for about two years after installing Dapper on a Desktop.

Now I have this Acer laptop. Installed Wubi, everything went fine until the b43-fwcutter driver wireless issue came up. After searching the forums about this problem, I realized I'd rather go play outside than waste my day(s) trying to get it to recognize my wifi card, which XP already recognizes.

Sorry Ubuntu. XP sucks but it works.

[georgegerm]

windows xp is not a bad progy in my humble opinion ,, the issue is only windows whatever taste you use do not forget that ubu and other distros are from people to people with a lot of work behind it,, so there will be a lag and sometimes old systems will be forgoten for the new ones ie. hardware...
that said the support ubu has from so many normal joes and janes is by itself a great feeling of community well i feel this way
maybe you will turn and see ubu as an adition to your knowledge data base ie. brain instead of a hard thing to use
the more help you ask the more you will get,, well thats my expirience ...
i keep ubu for all but games and some, otherwise i know if i really try i will get ubu to do almost all mr. gates wants me to pay for,, i and do like bill he has changed the world,, and is giving away money to the poor so he is cool to a point im my book (but no so cool, vista is a money trap and upgrade into amoney blackhole,, you must buy new hard and software to stay in,, and i do not belive any man / woman should have so much money anyway...
all of this will not change how you feel ... but it may make you think a bit

[freeridr]

Well, here I am back with Ubuntu. Once I correctly untwisted my panties, dumped out a little sand and did some more research I got the wireless going.

I must say it is very nice to be running Hardy on my laptop. I am still going to dual boot only because I don't want to dump Photoshop just yet, even though I've been doing just fine with Gimp.

I'm back, baby. You know I can't stay away from your sweet OS love.

[aysiu]

Well, here I am back with Ubuntu. Once I correctly untwisted my panties, dumped out a little sand and did some more research I got the wireless going.

I must say it is very nice to be running Hardy on my laptop. I am still going to dual boot only because I don't want to dump Photoshop just yet, even though I've been doing just fine with Gimp.

I'm back, baby. You know I can't stay away from your sweet OS love.
If it's not CS3 (i.e., CS2 or earlier), I've heard Photoshop can run successfully through Wine.

[Lizard_King]

I, too, would like to make an anouncement, I am no longer going to eat corn flakes, I tried, but they got too soggy while I was reading the morning paper.

[aysiu]

I, too, would like to make an anouncement, I am no longer going to eat corn flakes, I tried, but they got too soggy while I was reading the morning paper.
You're going to have to post that in the "Bye, Corn Flakes" thread on the Corn Flakes Forums, I'm afraid.

[BenAshton24]

He'll be back :D MuaHaHaHaHaa, hes caught the Linux bug, once u've got that you can never truly go back :P

[airjaw]

I really wanted Ubuntu to work out the first time I switched. I used it for almost a year before I just had to switch back to windowsxp. Several reasons:

Ubuntu, and espec. firefox, on my desktop was just slow. Unbearably slow, and noticably slower than Windows on the same machine. Ubuntu and WINXP are on different hard drives, so I won't jump to any conclusions.

Ubuntu on my laptop:
Hey I loved everything except for the fact that the wireless would freeze after several hours or after it had transferred a certain # of bytes. You can find this problem documented on ubuntu forums. There wasn't much of a fix for it, at least nothing concrete from what I could see. I have no desire to try out a bunch of fixes that may or may not work and actualy have the potential to mess up my Settings completely. The worst part was that I couldn't just CTRL ALT Backspace and restart gnome or just restart Ubuntu. I had to physically power off the entire laptop. I did this about 100 times before I said 'screw it'.. i'm messing up my harddrive here this just isn't right.

I've had numerous sound issues with every Ubuntu version. I've had youtube/firefox issues with every Ubuntu version. Ubuntu on my desktop actually stopped working all of a sudden. I had to reinstall it. I won't even get into the numerous Xserver issues and what problems I've had with that.

I may sound like I'm whining or complaining but I really just don't think most of you get it. You like to bash people who try Ubuntu and can't hack it and send us off with a "go back to windows you crybabies". That's the attitude you guys have and then you wonder why more people aren't switching to Ubuntu. You can't have it both ways. If Ubuntu works, people will switch. If it doesn't, it matters not how awesome you think it is. The reality is that people need wireless, xserver, and sound to work out of the box, without troubleshooting involved. These things all work on Windows XP. Most people do not enjoy troubleshooting these kinds of things. Hell, I might enjoy these things once in a while but not when I had a long day at work solving programming bugs and I just want; to go home and listen to some mp3s.

Usually I understand how hard the developers work and how much support the community gives so I don't bitch about problems not working and "ubuntu should do this or that". But I'll give it to you guys straight as I think you must understand why people leave. That's reality and it needs to be faced. I've faced reality and I've used both windows and Ubuntu and these are just facts. simple facts. Things work in Windows for me and they work only half the time , if at all, in Ubuntu.

I've made the switch back to Ubuntu because I need to do some development work and Ubuntu has windows beat hands down. I already experienced an mp3 issue (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=5752022#post5752022).

I did get twinview or one of those multiple display configurations working this time, so hurray for that. I can't say that it was easy though. I have to credit envy and alberto milone , the creator of that program for really making dual display happen. Without that program and extra work I doubt I could have got it working. Contrast that with dual monitor in windowsxp which works right off the bat. I'm just saying. The user experience needs to be simplified and I know that its hard. I don't like ppl that complain all day either but you have to undrestand that if you're gonna sell ubuntu as being better than windowsxp then you need to either put up, or expect a lot of disappointed people.

*posted from my windows XP laptop because i can't connect WEP 128bit with my wireless card on ubuntu

[gingin]

I have no doubt your friends encountered those problems, but when I bought a wireless card for Ubuntu, I researched to find Linux-friendly ones, and I didn't have any difficulty getting it working. Then I bought a computer with Linux preinstalled, so I didn't have to do anything to get it working.

And I've never heard about Javascript working differently in Ubuntu than in Windows. So Firefox in Windows rendered the site differently than Firefox in Ubuntu? You know, you can use Internet Explorer in Ubuntu... or a bank that isn't IE-only (I've never had problems online banking).

I´m surprised as well as net bank doesn't work from ubuntu as does from windows. Personally do mine banking in windows inviroment. May be this happening only in Denmark for same unknown reasons. If you have nothing against I would like to post you details on that matter.
Thanks

[aysiu]

I´m surprised as well as net bank doesn't work from ubuntu as does from windows. Personally do mine banking in windows inviroment. May be this happening only in Denmark for same unknown reasons. If you have nothing against I would like to post you details on that matter.
Thanks
I did a little online poking around, and I think these are the banks that work with Firefox in Linux:
http://linux.dk/support/bank/?cn=dk&nid=1

[lukjad007]

I can't believe this thread is still active. o.0 I'm going to have to start reading it from the beginning to see what makes it so popular.

[doorman]

I can't believe this thread is still active. o.0 I'm going to have to start reading it from the beginning to see what makes it so popular.

139 pages... a little bit too much for me :)

[franklee]

What I dont understand is why a "Bye Ubuntu" thread bothers anyone? If the author feels it neccessary to comment on his experiences (negative or otherwise) with a view to expressing even only a hint of gratitude (as he did to the support in this forum) then so be it! Each user ought to be secure in the knowledge that we are all in this *nix thing together. Apparently thats the spirit of Ubuntu! Ive been with Linux since its inception. An avid Slackware and NetBSD user, I was really impressed with Ubuntu and decided to stay with Debian ever since. What this community and its developers have done for Linux and its reputation with Windows users deserves some props! Let the users and abusers have their fifteen minutes so we can all learn from their trials and tribulations....man....this is my longest post so far....(disclaimer: this post includes no flames, hacks or special inherent purpose. I may well have wasted your time.) Tee hee.

[cardinals_fan]

An avid Slackware and NetBSD user
Interestingly, those are two of my favorite systems. Coincidence?

[cha0sthe0ry]

See, I am the other way around. I am a noob to Linux (I currently am resting my wrists on two piles of CDs of different distros) and I love Ubuntu, and Linux in general. I started using a computer on MS DOS, and grew up through each version of Windows (gladly skipped ME). When I first installed Linux, I had the same attitude, that Linux OWED it to me to be as easy to use. But a lot of the fun in Linux is the learning. It isn't any harder, just different. I personally enjoy the learning process more than using the same old boring thing all the time. And who better to start with than Ubuntu with their awesome support on here? I quickly got over the lazy American idea that Ubuntu has to be as user friendly. Just make the user smarter, and it's friendly ;)

And by the way, I had wireless issues on my laptop, and Ubuntu is the only one that recognized the need for proprietary drivers and warned me right away. OPENSuse, and all the others, never gave me the option, and I had to do it the hard way for each one. But I learned stuff doing it :)

[cha0sthe0ry]

I seriously need to learn to check how many pages have been posted before I post.

[Tiler]

I like this thread. I say, "bye, Ubuntu," every time I leave for work in the morning.

[psychoelf]

2006? Wasn't Ubuntu having all sorts of problems with wireless at that time? I actually switched to straight Debian around that time because no matter what I did Ubuntu would not work right. For some reason Debian worked. Just recently switched back to 8.04 after I got a new laptop and I'm happy with the progress. Tried Mac OSX 10.5.5 also and I'd have to say that is what made me want to try Ubuntu again. I prefer Ubuntu over OSX and Vista. Still need Vista to play my old Windows games though. At least Urban Terror will run in Linux.

[applecookie]

Urban Terror runs perfectly in Hardy! ;-)

[bwallum]

This light a man on fire m'larky. You failed to mention that the rest of his life is rather short and painful...

[MaverickCoast]

"Why do people feel the need to post this?"

Well, understand that he's actually doing everyone a favor by listing the reasons the product didn't work for him. Most people use Windows, so for Linux in any variety to have a shot at growth it has to appeal to a Windows-user's expectations. This guy took issue with the lack (or apparent lack) of support for wireless equipment and the installation procedure for additional software. If many other users are also turned off by these issues, it's something for the programming community to try to work on.

S.W.

EXACTLY. Since most PCs are pre-loaded with Windows, it's only natural that people will compare the two when changing over, and if Linux/Ubuntu is harder than Windows to use, WHY SWITCH to Linux??

I'm a new Ubuntu user and like using Ubuntu, but still find quite a few minuses when trying to do things, namely making things work such as hardware.The most recent, trying to install a scanner (HP Scanjet 5100C) which STILL DOESN'T WORK !... And yes, I have searched every possible posting and tried everything suggested, but still can't get it to work! Another example, installing dual monitors proved to be a challenge. At one point, I couldn't even boot to my desktop!

I consider myself quite capable at using PCs, tweaking them, and troubleshooting PC issues, so just to put things into perspective, if I find it hard and discouraging to navigate Linux/Ubuntu, then a new to semi-new PC user is in no way going to be able to migrate to Linux. I like a challenge, so for me, roadblocks are easier to face!

New Linux users have to have at LEAST, a very good knowledge of how to get around a PC, not to mention ALOT of patience and nerves to take chances on fixes when you have no idea what you may be doing. That can be EXTREMELY SCAREY, not knowing if you have just disabled your PC, causing it NOT to reboot, etc..

To install a new program in Linux, many times you need to enter a command line. One that you don't know and have to search for. If it's a tar.gz file, Lord help you. It depends upon what's in the tar.gz file before you can figure out HOW to install the program! In Windows you just click on the .exe file. EVEN IF IT'S IN A ZIP file, you unzip it, click on the .exe and you're on your way!! MUCH easier in Windows, no question.

I can understand some Linux users who get defensive and get smart with people who express preference to Windows, but there is no denying that Windows is more user friendly OUT-OF-THE-BOX.

People who post "good-byes" to Linux I feel are saying two things. One, that they wish it would have worked out, but two, they found Linux not what some say it is.....easy enough and ready for the "common" PC user. They think that those who poo-poo Windows don't accept the fact that Windows is STILL the friendlier OS..

That being said, I do appreciate the support shown around here AND IF IT WEREN'T FOR THAT, I would have left Ubuntu a long time ago!

Thanks to everyone for all you do. That's the only way to keep people using the Linux OS family.

:D
Mav
:guitar:

[bwallum]

I have an HP Scanjet 5P scanner (excellent but out of the ark by modern standards) that works on SCSI. It cost £10, plus a fiver for a SCSI 160 card to go in the PC. It was new old stock about 6 months ago. Xane finds it ok but the scanner has to be turned on before the PC, or the SCSI connection is not made. This dedicated scanner gives much higher resolution than my modern 600dpi printer can take. Just a thought as an alternative to the all in one.

[nystud162]

Can someone please lock this? I'm getting so many emails on this 2 year old tread.

[OzzyFrank]

Can someone please lock this? I'm getting so many emails on this 2 year old tread.

I would perhaps go for the less selfish option of unsubscribing from this thread. Or you can go with the whole "I'll bend the Universe to my will!" approach. I suppose, as long as you're happy, it doesn't really matter if others want to keep reading this!

[doas777]

I just stopped by to salute the enormity of this thread. well done folks!:)

[wolfen69]

EXACTLY. but there is no denying that Windows is more user friendly OUT-OF-THE-BOX.



i fix windows machines for a living. i don't need to hear about it. you obviously have never used Sabayon 3.5 (DVD version)

talk about "out of the box", sabayon is hands down the best out there. if you have a halway decent machine. 3D, office, games, multimedia, google earth, skype, etc. nothing comes close. please.

[Cpuboye11]

Haven't read threw the many pages or posts.. But after the first page.... Come on....

UBUNTU IS FREE!!!! So you can't install things the way you can in Windows.... SO WHAT?!? Run it on a 2nd machine or a laptop that you rally use.. It's just that simple.. Work on it for a day or two.. Keep trying until you get it to work. Then you can go around to your friends or just use it when ever and show off... Thats what i do.. And i found out that three of my friends use it and now we just can't stop helping each other when there is a problem.. Don't quit just because your bored... Try, try, try, try and try, and try some more... That simple.

I will admit.. I use Vista. I use Xp. I use 2000. I have used all the Windows Operating systems... ( NOT ME.. OMG ) I like how the installing happens in Windows.. Easier then Ubuntu. But it is getting to the point where UBUNTU will be the next windows.. or be right there with it.. :guitar:

Kyle

[benny bronx]

1399.

[mr_byte]

i fix windows machines for a living. i don't need to hear about it. you obviously have never used Sabayon 3.5 (DVD version)

talk about "out of the box", sabayon is hands down the best out there. if you have a halway decent machine. 3D, office, games, multimedia, google earth, skype, etc. nothing comes close. please.

Amen, brother!

I think Ubuntu is great, it's leading the way in conversion for newer users and the people that want "Just Works" with little or no effort.

I like the absolute control a Gentoo distro gives, I'm more comfortable working with one.

I still have my kubuntu (wubi) on my Windoze partition, but I just got my seamless windows working again (weird problem, I'm going to find the active seamless thread, or start a new tut...) so I can have the 1 ot 2 programs I need from Windows. I tried to wine/cxoffice them, but one is photoshop CS3 and the other is Delorme Street Atlas (2005 on) and they just don't seem to run for me in under Wine.

Also, I now have my internal wi-fi working under Sabayon for the first time. I used an Atheros PCMCIA card before, just had to let MadWiFi catch up to my internal Atheros.

So it's not really "Goodbye" for Ubuntu, just "see ya around." I would urge any Windows users out there that are trying Linux for the first time to be patient. It's a **LOT** easier than it was even 3 years ago, and it's only getting better.

[wak_wak]

On wireless right now with an XPS M1530.

GDEBI is the 2nd easiest way in the world of installing an app.. It falls right behind Syanptic in ease. This being opposed to going out, buying an app, putting a CD in, clicking next, next, next, accept, next, entering the product key, next...

I appreciate the input and I know it can sometimes be a little frustrating but in the long run a lot of time and money are saved with Ubuntu (or the flavor of your choice).

But I think it comes down to this, if you're "trying" linux and Windows has "set the bar" then Linux/Ubuntu/Mint/Suse etc. will NEVER live up to it.

As an example, when I switched it was because I had frustrations with Win and wanted to find something better. I wasn't taking Win as the product to live up to. So if someone is dead-set on Windows being the best and is just sort of trying Linux to see if it could be better than it will NEVER be...

Well, that's my opinion at least.

[jerome1232]

I know this thread has gone on awhile and I didn't bother to read all of the comments but I have a pet peave on one thing that the op gave as a reason for leaving.

hardware support.

Honestly I am amazed that an OS that has as little of a userbase as it does, where the dev's have to backwards engineer a good number of drivers because the manufactures won't produce Linux drivers and won't open their specs/drivers for the devs to work off of, has as good of hardware support as it does.

When people say Linux needs better hardware support I always think 'hardware manufacturers need better Linux support' which will only come with popularity of the OS.


So I'd like to praise Ubuntu on it's hardware support. I wet my feet on dapper (6.06? was it?), then used it in earnest after 7.04 and the change from there to here has been incredible. Very fast pace of improvement.

[Grams79]

Sorry guys and gals, I'm gave it a shot and I;m going to have to say good bye to Linux and Ubuntu. Without wireless support and an easy way to install programs, this is something that I'm not going to get. I'm a windows user and that's all there is to it.

I tried, but it just isn't going to work.

Can't handle doing a little work I see.
Well.. bye

[NoSmokingBandit]

I know this thread has gone on awhile and I didn't bother to read all of the comments but I have a pet peave on one thing that the op gave as a reason for leaving.

hardware support.

Honestly I am amazed that an OS that has as little of a userbase as it does, where the dev's have to backwards engineer a good number of drivers because the manufactures won't produce Linux drivers and won't open their specs/drivers for the devs to work off of, has as good of hardware support as it does.

When people say Linux needs better hardware support I always think 'hardware manufacturers need better Linux support' which will only come with popularity of the OS.


So I'd like to praise Ubuntu on it's hardware support. I wet my feet on dapper (6.06? was it?), then used it in earnest after 7.04 and the change from there to has been incredible. Very fast pace of improvement.
Ahhh, i love this point. Without a huge user base Linux gets crappy hardware support, but with no hardware support the user base is not going to grow. And if the user base isnt going to grow hardware manufacturers dont want to spend time writing drivers...

Can't handle doing a little work I see.
Well.. bye
Some people like their OS to work for them, not the other way around.

[jerome1232]

Some people like their OS to work for them, not the other way around.

And what OS do you propose that be?

Under Windows you put all that work, effort, and research into making your box a no virus zone.

[NoSmokingBandit]

Under Windows you put all that work, effort, and research into making your box a no virus zone.
Heres the steps i take to keep windows clean:
1) install NOD32
2) ?
3) Profit!

I've installed vista/xp/ubuntu on many machines and it always takes longer to get ubuntu set up.

[doas777]

Some people like their OS to work for them, not the other way around.

lol. good point. Ubuntu was the first linux system i tried that i actually send more time using than configuring and administering. but if i want to spend a day and a half tackling a technical experiment, there are plenty of those as well. ubuntu is a good medium for where I am at in my computing journey.

cheers,
Fraklin

[Thanh-BKK]

I've installed vista/xp/ubuntu on many machines and it always takes longer to get ubuntu set up.

Hi :)

I've done that, too. Installed Windows (various versions) on MANY computers. Ubuntu so far only on Three.

You know what? Inclusive tweaking and customizing (where Ubuntu has more possibilities to start with) it takes me about the same time for a Windows XP than it takes for a Ubuntu-box. By the time i have installed all the necessary drivers from a number of CD's in XP, i have also hammered and filed the few rough edges on Ubuntu to have all hardware working. On my particular box that i'm using now EVERYTHING worked right after install, no fiddling at all required (ok Nvidia driver from the repo, but TOTALLY painless!).

On the other hand, i've seen plenty of Windows boxes that worked initially (after install the OS) but after installing a graphics driver became buggy or refused to boot..... had to download an updated version first (and that was a newly bought graphics card, also an Nvidia).

Plus, i have seen MANY MANY Windows boxes with any anti-virus on them that suddenly went down "all by themselves" because the latest virus slipped through the protection....... what do you prefer, having your OS set up and tweaked half an hour quicker, or having a year of work destroyed by one wrong click on a "click HERE for free games" sort of thing?

Sorry, only being a user of Ubuntu for a few months, i do VERY MUCH prefer Ubuntu.

Hey but a Windows 95 install in a VM under Ubuntu rocks :)

Kind regards.....

Thanh

[SoulRyuu]

I have to say I have felt the exact same way as the guy who created this, I've been there when I couldn't install something and been online looking for a wireless solution for 7 or 8 hours sometime, Ubuntu is not going to just install and be everything you want, everything takes work. Ubuntu limits the work you need to do for starters, My wireless works like a charm thx to the awesome community here, spending some time googling and searching on here can realize the wonders that ubuntu can give you if you try.

[NoSmokingBandit]

On the other hand, i've seen plenty of Windows boxes that worked initially (after install the OS) but after installing a graphics driver became buggy or refused to boot..... had to download an updated version first (and that was a newly bought graphics card, also an Nvidia).

Plus, i have seen MANY MANY Windows boxes with any anti-virus on them that suddenly went down "all by themselves" because the latest virus slipped through the protection....... what do you prefer, having your OS set up and tweaked half an hour quicker, or having a year of work destroyed by one wrong click on a "click HERE for free games" sort of thing?

Getting a virus on windows isnt as easy as everyone makes it out to be. Unless you are an idiot, then its really easy, lol. Im a savvy enough user to know to avoid "free (insert product here)!" ads or any of the usual attacks.

I installed xubuntu on an old lappy i had laying around and in order to get the video working i had to edit the config file by hand in Nano (which sucks for editing alot of a file, btw) and even then there was a 4px wide black bar on the left of my screen and my desktop extnded past the screen 4px to the right. I installed XP and it worked correctly. If its really popular hardware, linux works great, but if you are running it on obscure low-end hardware its going to be a pain which sucks because xubuntu is fast as greased balls.

[doas777]

Getting a virus on windows isnt as easy as everyone makes it out to be. Unless you are an idiot, then its really easy, lol. Im a savvy enough user to know to avoid "free (insert product here)!" ads or any of the usual attacks.

I installed xubuntu on an old lappy i had laying around and in order to get the video working i had to edit the config file by hand in Nano (which sucks for editing alot of a file, btw) and even then there was a 4px wide black bar on the left of my screen and my desktop extnded past the screen 4px to the right. I installed XP and it worked correctly. If its really popular hardware, linux works great, but if you are running it on obscure low-end hardware its going to be a pain which sucks because xubuntu is fast as greased balls.

unfourtunatly safe browsing behavior is no longer sufficient on windows. you can go to a perfectly legitimate site like CNN, and get hit by a driveby download from one of their ad networks, running a pdf or flash exploit to gain arbitrary execution. yes if you have the right software you can probably prevent this (read Kaspersky NoScript and AdBlock+) but just avoiding shady links and sites is no longer enough.

[meech]

I am in absolute agreement.

[NoSmokingBandit]

unfourtunatly safe browsing behavior is no longer sufficient on windows. you can go to a perfectly legitimate site like CNN, and get hit by a driveby download from one of their ad networks, running a pdf or flash exploit to gain arbitrary execution. yes if you have the right software you can probably prevent this (read Kaspersky NoScript and AdBlock+) but just avoiding shady links and sites is no longer enough.

Adblock+ is a standard on any firefox install, regardless of OS. I've been to many shady sites in my day and NOD32+Adblock have kept me running at 100%.
Imo, linux/mac zealots play the virus card so much that people think you can get a virus by simply opening your browser.

[cardinals_fan]

Adblock+ is a standard on any firefox install, regardless of OS. I've been to many shady sites in my day and NOD32+Adblock have kept me running at 100%.
Imo, linux/mac zealots play the virus card so much that people think you can get a virus by simply opening your browser.
+1

Adblock and a limited account are musts on any OS.

[L815]

I wouldn't care too much about ads if they weren't placed so horrendously. I tried Chrome, and was horrified how some websites look with ads allowed :o

[NoSmokingBandit]

i used my sisters laptop when we were waiting for a plane once and all the ads in IE7 made my eyes bleed (she abhors firefox some some retarded reason). I waited until we got home to check my email, lol.

[Jordy27]

I agree also - Ubuntu is too bloated and slow. It took me days to configure my wireless card properly and even then it was still dodgy. I now use Dreamlinux - wireless worked out of the box first time! If only ubuntu could be the same...

[Thanh-BKK]

Adblock+ is a standard on any firefox install, regardless of OS. I've been to many shady sites in my day and NOD32+Adblock have kept me running at 100%.
Imo, linux/mac zealots play the virus card so much that people think you can get a virus by simply opening your browser.

Hi :)

I'm not a zealot, just a Linux user (and even that only since a few months) but i also just happen to build and fix computers. And unfortunately, about 99.9% of the ones i fix have nothing "broken" except for the Windows install - and usually only because of Viruses.

Asking the owner what they did to get it? "Nothing, just surfing the web".

I remember reading a test where they installed a pirated (!) and hence un-updated Windows XP on a brand new computer, NO ant-virus, and then started surfing the internet with Internet Explorer.

They had the first trojan after 2 1/2 minutes (!) and after 3 1/2 hours the machine became unusable due to the number of viruses and trojans that ran and, in turn, "invited" others (many a virus or trojan opens additional backdoors to let other viruses/trojans in, or even actively downloads them by itself).

Now i'm in Thailand, and (unfortunately?) roughly 95% of all Windows installations i ever came across in this country are pirated. The reason being Microsoft's pricing policy - in a country where people earn less than a quarter of people in the U.S.A., genuine Windows needs to cost at least twice the price it costs in the U.S.A. (Windows XP still costs about 100 U.S. Dollars for an OEM (!) Home version, 200 U.S. Dollars for an OEM "Pro" version, and Vista Ultimate Full still costs about 550 U.S. Dollars here - more than 1 1/2 months income).... hence the pirated versions at 5 U.S. Dollars are what's being bought.

They may come with the latest service packs, but auto-updating is almost always disabled (or has to be disabled because it pulls in the WGA thing, and users don't want that sort of stuff) and hence these machines are an invitation to nasties. I have seen Viruses on machines with (expensive) Anti-Virus software (mighty "Norton" or "McAfee") where the virus' first activity was to disable the updating routine of the AV software! Now THAT's sophisticated, no?

And, running anti-virus software (because we need to!) is a nuisance - Windows XP boots clean in 40 seconds - but takes 2 minutes if ANY anti-virus is installed. Vista even worse. Having anti-virus, anti-spyware, anti-adware and anti-god-knows-what things running all the time gobbles up so much resources that working on even a fast machine becomes a pain.

Only two things that help.... pull out that LANplug and never connect it again, or install Linux. For now, that is..... if it gets more popular, viruses WILL come.

(and i firmly believe in the conspiracy - nobody changes my belief that more than 75% of viruses, particular the rather harmless ones, are created by anti-virus-software companies in order to push sales of their products)

Best regards.....

Thanh

[factotum218]

Sorry but why do people feel the need to announce this?

Why does every keep recycling the same crap over and over again for almost a decade and give it titles like "From Windows to Linux" or "Alternatives to Adobe" or "10 reasons to use linux". It's all rehashed, outdated, opinionated FUD anyways.

I've been a *NIX user for the better part of the last decade. Primarily I use Slackware Ubuntu and FreeBSD. As time goes on I become less and less font of being associated with it. I use them successfully and will continue to do so for a long time.

From what I see from the desktop users point of view is really quite simple. A person has nothing to lose by using Windows. It's not 1998 anymore. The only repairs and reinstalls I have had to do in the last 5 or 6 years have had to do with hardware failure. Like I tell everyone:

If you can't even keep a windows box up and running why would you want to use Linux? Just get a Mac if it's too much work for you. You got a virus or malware? Thats your own fault.

Maybe it's the old blackhat in me but lets be honest; no one is forcing anyone to go out and purchase a copy of Vista. Just like anything computer related it's not a comodity. If they are running Vista it's because they choose to and have the money to do so. And is Vista really that terrible a year later? No. The user directory is terrible but that can be changed. It runs just as fast as anything coming out of the Ubuntu camp on my system. If anything Linux users should be targeting Vista's resource hungry way of going about its business. But don't mention anything about it actually being somewhat stable and can be left on for a week without slowing down at all. It's a ram-sucking monster compared to XP, which runs quite snappily in comparison to your typical Linux desktop oriented distribution. Sure, distributions like Gentoo, Slackware, Zenwalk, Arch, LFS, and even Debian still give XP a run for it's money performance wise out of the box but save yourself the effort, Just slipstream yourself an SP3 XP disk and save yourself some time. Your copy is legal right? Yeah, about as legal as your copy of Alchohal 120% and Photoshop right?
Don't like the WGA? Neither do I. I thought it was pointless. But whatever, let the crying pirates deal with it. I could care less about people stealing music/software/whatever, but when you complain to the company who your stealing from that they locked the door it makes you look like an asshat.

Sorry there wasn't much of a point to this, but it sure was fun to write.

[aysiu]

Why does every keep recycling the same crap over and over again for almost a decade and give it titles like "From Windows to Linux" or "Alternatives to Adobe" or "10 reasons to use linux". It's all rehashed, outdated, opinionated FUD anyways. I agree with you here. As long as people keep posting the anti-Windows propaganda, others will post the "bye, Ubuntu" reaction as well.

[NoSmokingBandit]

And, running anti-virus software (because we need to!) is a nuisance - Windows XP boots clean in 40 seconds - but takes 2 minutes if ANY anti-virus is installed. Vista even worse. Having anti-virus, anti-spyware, anti-adware and anti-god-knows-what things running all the time gobbles up so much resources that working on even a fast machine becomes a pain.


I have NOD32 and Comodo installed on vista and it takes literally 20 seconds to boot after i choose it from my bootloader. I have a decent machine (2.6ghz core2duo, 4gb ram, 8600get. nothing special, just a good solid pc) and it really doesnt go any faster without comodo/nod32. If norton were installed it would be a different story :D

The point is, all OS's have their faults. Those who favor linux (most people here, obviously) are going to pick at window's faults and make them seem bigger than they really are, whereas windows fans will do the same to linux.

I try to remain impartial. I run OSX and Vista on my pc because they both do everything i need. I have no need to install any flavor of linux but it is a great OS with bad hardware/(mainstream)software support. Leo is a great OS that requires you to pay for expensive hardware, and windows is a great OS that needs you to run an A/V in the background.
Pick your poison.

[Elim_Garak]

You know what? Inclusive tweaking and customizing (where Ubuntu has more possibilities to start with) it takes me about the same time for a Windows XP than it takes for a Ubuntu-box. By the time i have installed all the necessary drivers from a number of CD's in XP, i have also hammered and filed the few rough edges on Ubuntu to have all hardware working. On my particular box that i'm using now EVERYTHING worked right after install, no fiddling at all required (ok Nvidia driver from the repo, but TOTALLY painless!).

Oh yes, been there, done that. Nothing has irked me more about XP boxes is the relentless swapping of CDs for drivers, or downloading them, assuming you have the driver for your network card. I had the same experience with Ubuntu - install and use.

[Kadak10]

I have had ubuntu for a solid 7-8 months now, and i absolutely love it. The only thing that i do have to say is that there is a bit of a small issue with the wireless. You see, i couldnt figure out how to connect to my wireless router for the life of me, and to figure it out i would need some help off the internet. Now if you do the math here, to get to the internet, it helps to be connected to the internet..... It didnt make much sense to me, so instead i decided to buy 250 feet of ethernet cable and simply hard wire my house. much simpler than trying to find the right settings for wireless. It would have been nice, but in the end it doesnt really matter.

Just my two cents on the subject

cheers - k10

[deverett]

First time Linux user expects everything to work out the box without any effort whatsoever. It really gets on my **** when people throw in the towel like this. Computers where never meant to be this easy.

He should go back to the DOS days now that was easy. I even had a Commodore Commander after the CC DOS was a blessing.

[jerome1232]

I just find it funny that 4 GB of ram is considered nothing special now... a 32 bit machine doesn't even know what to do with that amount of ram! The next Microsoft release will not be able to perform on a 32 bit machine I can almost guarantee it.

Running happily on an AMD64 3700+(2.4GHZ), 1 GB DDR Ram(166MHZ), 250 GB SATA HD, NVIDIA 5700LE, Ubuntu 8.04.1 Kernel 2.6.24-19-generic X86_64.

[warpasylum]

System 76 has laptops that come preloaded with ubuntu and already have the wireless configured.:guitar:

[zero7404]

yeah well, can't really blame the threadstarter for his frustration....

i've always been interested in linux and wanted to run it on my computers all these years but there was always something that didn't want to run right, so i put off all this time.

i decided to try out ubuntu and i'm running it fairly ok. but when i have problems, i come here and post, 8 out of 10 times my posts are ignored. so i'm sitting here trying to fix the open issues i do have with this OS, but no one cares to help.

and then you wonder why Linux isn't as popular as windows. it's because people try it, to varying degrees, and it eventually fails them.

i'm almost there too.

somehow, the logic behind free is synonymous with linux and no help, because all my paid for software works fine and is supported and updated frequently.

[bwallum]

yeah well, can't really blame the threadstarter for his frustration....

i've always been interested in linux and wanted to run it on my computers all these years but there was always something that didn't want to run right, so i put off all this time.

i decided to try out ubuntu and i'm running it fairly ok. but when i have problems, i come here and post, 8 out of 10 times my posts are ignored. so i'm sitting here trying to fix the open issues i do have with this OS, but no one cares to help.

and then you wonder why Linux isn't as popular as windows. it's because people try it, to varying degrees, and it eventually fails them.

i'm almost there too.

somehow, the logic behind free is synonymous with linux and no help, because all my paid for software works fine and is supported and updated frequently.

You may get some comment on this, I'll be gentle. This community do not ignore requests for help, far from it. They will help you as much as you want. You just have to take it one issue at a time and be as specific as you can. General 'I've had enough' comments usually get ignored.

I have switched to Ubuntu for about a year now. I have paid thousands for MS software over the years. That software now sits on my shelf. I prefer an operating system that lets me configure it to suit myself and doesn't link every Tom, **** and Harry to it who are looking for a fast buck.

Intrepid is very good at the moment, release is due at the end of this month. Try again, you won't regret it.

[aysiu]

General 'I've had enough' comments usually get ignored. Oh, I wish that were the case...

[lukjad007]

In other words, it gets ignored by those who have been around for a long while. Basically, it's a troll battleground with a few innocents stepping in to try and "help" one side. They are the only ones that get hurt though, as is the case in war...

[bwallum]

Oh, I wish that were the case...

excellent response, I can hardly see my keyboard for my eyes watering...hiccups now...

[Liquidcool]

Well I for one have followed and tried Linux for years. Each time I worked through one problem to hit another. I consider myself a reasonably seasoned computer user I have Solaris and HPUX experience and build my own video servers. I always liked the concept but found myself abandoning the install when I needed to get down to work. I have tried more distros than I care to remember.

I am now on Hardy and thoroughly impressed. I have a HP6500dt laptop with everything working out of the box including a logitech nano wireless mouse. I have virtualbox running XP for the software I need for school (electrical engineering). I can copy and paste from the virtual machine to Gnome and back! I have more eye candy than the Vista home premium that came with the PC could provide and with less overhead. I did have to toss my minolta printer for a brother unit that provided Linux support. I needed toner anyway so I took the $60 I would have spent on the toner and got a sweet $90 wireless printer. That was the only thing I had to give up on.

I took it to work and showed my boss how 15 minutes of scripting could save her 45 minutes worth of copying and pasting from text files every day in the MS world.

This is long . . . but I have been spreading the word, codecs galore, scripting, free software, security. The people that have made this happen should be praised!

Ok I am off the soapbox.

[zero7404]

say whatever you will. in the end, linux is just a toy to play around with. the statistics speak for themselves as to what OS has been generally accepted as best for home desktop users BY home desktop users.

i have a hard time understanding the true motive behind pushing free to use operating systems to the desktop community. as it stands, mac os and windows have a few multipliers on linux as far as installed user base is concerned. so in this captialist society where ppl flock to stores when sales take place, why is it that linux, which is FREE, cannot get better usage than what we see today ?

linux is derived from unix, which is an operating system mostly used by businesses and universities. if there was really really a desire by the masses to use linux, it would have been much more popular than it is today. instead, my observations (since the early 90's) shows me that linux' installed user base as not grown anywhere near as much as windows or mac os has in the past 2 decades.

for the average desktop guy/gal, linux is just a toy to play around with.

[cjnkns]

People are used to flocking to stores to purchase software - so what?
If you want to pay 500 dollars for MS Office 2007 fine go right ahead.

But, why? Open Office works pretty damn well for me. I mean the difference in the functionality between OOo and MS Office is NOT worth the hundereds of dollars it cost to buy it. If you want to pay 350 to 500 dollars for a ribbon on your office suite or some other functionaltiy that you simply can not live without great spend your money on it that's what works for you.

Sure linux on the front end of office applications is slow on the uptake. MS has spent millons of dollars (and sued companies and vendors) to ensure that moving to another OS was difficult if not impossible. Sometimes they give there software away for next to nothing .. why? If they get people "hooked" on the MS way and used to their software everthing else seems foreign and people spend hundrednds of dollars in order to feel comfortable again.

If you had used linux for as many years as you have windows it would be strange and weird to move to a windows world too.

Myself - I use both. I have to use Windows at work becuase it's on my laptop they assinged me. But, at home I have Vista and a linux laptop, but I have used my ubuntu laptop so often now that I am used to it. Going to vista just seems strange. It's a nice OS though. So far it has worked great for me but I prefer my ubuntu. Just like people whom are used to Vista prefer it their way.

[Thanh-BKK]

Hi :)

There is ONLY ONE reason why there are soooo many Windows-users and so few Linux users.

When people buy a computer, in most cases this comes with an operating system already installed. Why? because people, specially computer-newbies, simply want to "plug and play".

And the OS that ships with the computer, like it or not, is usually Windows. In most cases you do NOT have the option of buying the same computer without any OS (for cheaper), so most computers sold these days already include Windows in their price.

Hence people who never touched a computer before get to know Windows first.

And once they have used Windows for some time, comes time for an upgrade, they go for Windows again. THAT is why so many flock to stores and buy Windows.

If sometimes in the 90's all computer manufacturers would have started shipping new computers with Linux instead of Windows, nowadays Windows would be a niche OS. But Microsoft tied them in back then, and we all know what the result is.

Oh, and the reason why Mac OS, which ships with computers just like Windows does, has a much lower user base is because of the price. An Apple machine (which you need in order to run Mac OS) costs a lot more than a regular PC, and you can't do any more or less with it. If Apple's computers would cost as much (or as little) as regular PC's, their share of the OS market would be far greater. And if they would release their OS to run on regular PC's (like Microsoft does with Windows - imagine you had to buy a specific Microsoft machine to run Windows on!) it would be EVEN greater.

And why do people shun Linux even though it's free? Well, ask any number of "computer people" about "Linux" and you'll get to hear "that is for geeks only, that is very difficult, none of your games will work on that" and similar. And naturally, people are lazy and don't want to fiddle with a computer to make it work, so they go for the "easy solution", be it truly easier or not.

For me, i repeat it again, setting up Ubuntu on my particular (home built) PC went easier than a Windows-install (XP or Vista, which i used both) on the very same machine. But there are MANY others where that is NOT the case.

And, as "wireless" is mentioned again and again - have you ever been in a situation where a laptop (as it usually is about laptops) had it's Windows install destroyed by whatever reason, and you had to re-install it? Driver's galore - specially with laptops, many things will NOT work after a plain Windows install, and that almost always includes the wireless AND the LAN card. If you don't have a second computer (including a CD-burner or a thumb drive) to grab the drivers then you are lost in the middle of nowhere. With Ubuntu, at least the LAN always works :)

Best regards....

Thanh

[incomt65]

I think is a bit unfair to tag non-linux users as "lazy". People want to do stuff with the computer, not TO the computer.

That said I agree Windows is not much easier than some Linux distros this days -- I installed Win in all my friends and family computers :P and format it when they got a virus, and etc. Tt was too difficult to them...

But maybe is not the OS but the software. OpenOffice and Firefox are more popular now, but other software just doesnt stands when going specialist. To name a few, Gimp cant compete with Photoshop. There's no decent audio or music production soft. And I'm not talking about capacities -- I'm talking about interfaces and interaction.

[Elim_Garak]

i decided to try out ubuntu and i'm running it fairly ok. but when i have problems, i come here and post, 8 out of 10 times my posts are ignored. so i'm sitting here trying to fix the open issues i do have with this OS, but no one cares to help.

and then you wonder why Linux isn't as popular as windows. it's because people try it, to varying degrees, and it eventually fails them.


I understand where you're coming from, but I say don't give up. I've found the people helpful here. Every one of the few problems that has cropped up has been solved through advice on this site. I find that people have been very helpful.

My belief is that it's better to search the forums and try to find the answer yourself first before you ask. Many of my questions were answered in multiple threads, with the same basic answer by the same group of people. A new post was not necessary. I can understand that these helpful people find it rather frustrating to have to repost the same answer to the same question multiple times, or post a link, which involves searching, which is what those of us who need the help should be doing. Just about any conceivable problem has been addressed somewhere in these forums. For those that aren't, there is Launchpad, and there have been many successes there, too.

I find a bug, I can report it to Launchpad or look around here. Someone invariably gets back to me in a hurry, or there is a thread or bug report addressing it. With Microsoft, to get that kind of tailored response would cost large dollars. Linux has failed us? How many times has Microsoft failed us?

As for those who would junk Linux, I've junked Microsoft. Never again.

[jimbean]

microsoft mac os linux

all the exact same thing


2001: A Space Odyssey


its the computer dave

[zero7404]

My belief is that it's better to search the forums and try to find the answer yourself first before you ask.

i do this, and the outcome is somewhat discouraging: there's more than one way to solve the same problem in linux, which opens the door to more unique problems which are harder to find when searching for a solution.

[redbook4574]

Sorry guys and gals, I'm gave it a shot and I;m going to have to say good bye to Linux and Ubuntu. Without wireless support and an easy way to install programs, this is something that I'm not going to get. I'm a windows user and that's all there is to it.

I tried, but it just isn't going to work.

Glad I didn't give up that easy, binned windows after 18 months of support from various linux forums (suse desktop, kubuntu laptop and aspire one).
Now solely using linux for 6 months and no regrets.

[aysiu]

I'm going to close this two-and-a-half-year-old thread, as it has run its course.

It was started before the Testimonials subforum had been renamed Testimonials and Experiences, and it was before we had the Recurring Discussions subforum, so megathreads were a good way to lump together such things.

[redbook4574]

What isn't fun is trouble with trying to get something like a currently unsupported wireless card to work when you've got no experience with the command line. This user came up against that wall and it probably frustrated him to no end. I remember that feeling. :(

Yeah I agree but don't forget the satisfaction when you finally get it to work.

[bwallum]

Well the old one was such a great chuckle that I thought we ought to have a fresh one.

I like Ubuntu because it works and the community is great.
I dislike (but don't hate) M$ because it doesn't and urr....erm....

help me out here.

[bwallum]

spoil sports

[Rocket2DMn]

Threads merged (remains closed). New threads -> Recurring Discussions as aysiu said.