The "Bye, Ubuntu" thread

[DrMega]

I agree that Ubuntu, and indeed other distros, have a bit to go before they can really compete with Windows. Don't get me wrong, I prefer Ubuntu to Windows, but I do find myself having to revert to the command line a fair bit, and hack config files and what not.

When you can do nearly everything from a GUI like in Windows (and that is not so far off), then maybe it will be taken much more seriously as a desk top OS (let us not forget it has been THE server OS for quite some time).

[mech7]

yeah i have to agree i like linux though but because the lack of professional software i am unable to work on it. It's fun to play with but i wouldn't trade my windows for it.

[socomoddjob]

LOL, sorry about the brief message before.

Ok, heres the deal.....i do not hate Ubuntu nor am i talking down on the Ubuntu project at all. I think the OS functions well, isnt all that difficult to learn and works for most computing applications for the normal PC user.

I will list my gripes with Ubuntu below.....

- No Photoshop or alot of other much needed windows programs
- WINE is terrible
- No Gaming
- The terminal is an archeaic process to do things
- Crappy 2nd rate linux programs that try to copy Windows programs
- Webcam issues
- DVD burning issues
- Microphone issues

I can sit here all day and list things that i dont like but i have a fresh copy of XP here waiting to be bombarded with all the stuff ive been missing while i was giving myself headaches in linux.

I will always monitor Ubuntu to see how it develops, maybe one day ill try it again.

[Kobalt]

- The terminal is an archeaic process to do things
This one really cracks me up :)

[floke]

When MS do it, it's a powerful advancement in computing technology.

We'll miss you.
We really will.

[james_2002uk]

So you miss stuff like photoshop and games, thats fair enough, I think most polls say thats what most Linux users wish they could get.

I think when using Linux you do resort to the command line more often but not because you're forced to - but because there is so much more you can do with linux - i'd feel i wasn't taking full advantage of it if I didn't try to totally customise every thing and stuff. Also the command line is so much more powerful than in windows it actually makes you enjoy using it (Ok maybe i'm a bit odd but using the command line gives me a sense of satisfaction i don't get from clicking stuff and it usually works out faster). To do every day stuff you need never touch it though.

[moore.bryan]

- No Photoshop or alot of other much needed windows programs
i don't use a lot of graphics, but isn't gimp/inkscape as powerful as, if not more so than, photoshop?
- WINE is terrible
i completely agree here
- The terminal is an archeaic process to do things
but sometimes the most straight-forward... :-)
- Crappy 2nd rate linux programs that try to copy Windows programs
such as?
I can sit here all day and list things that i dont like but i have a fresh copy of XP here waiting to be bombarded with all the stuff ive been missing while i was giving myself headaches in linux.
that's very linux of you: finding a program/environment/os which suits what you need and using it!
I will always monitor Ubuntu to see how it develops, maybe one day ill try it again.
good to hear; i hope to see you back soon!

[Anonii]

"- WINE is terrible"

WINE, sir, is an application masterpiece. There are not many apps, commercial or not, that can achieve what WINE does. For me, WINE runs Fallout, Starcraft, Photoshop and WoW greatly.

"- The terminal is an archeaic process to do things"

It's not an archeaic way to do things, it's the classic and best performance-wise way of doing things. You may not like it, and I understand that, but believe me, terminal apps give you the speed, the stability and the safety that no GUI apps give. One million sysadmins can't be wrong :P

"- Microphone issues"
"- Webcam issues"

I don't deny this. But I still see no threads of you describing your problems.

"- DVD burning issues"

DVD burning has no problems in Linux. I still don't see your threads or bug reports, tho.

"- Crappy 2nd rate linux programs that try to copy Windows programs"

I have a feeling that you mean GIMP and I completely disagree.

"- No Gaming"

I agree.

"- No Photoshop or alot of other much needed windows programs"

This problem has to do with Linux not beeing Windows. But well, there are countless "crappy 2nd rate linux programs that try to copy Windows programs", and you can use one of them.


Finally, it's funny seeing your first thread beeing "Bye Bye Windows" and your last one beeing "Bye Ubuntu"

Goodbye.

[bigdidz]

He,
Maybe Linux it's not good for gaming but for the rest I totally disagree with you. I'm new too on Ubuntu and unfortunately had a lot of problems too but I always be able to solve my problem with this forum. And, when I think of my first time with Windows I think it was really more painful.

I never had difficulties to find out my programs. I install mathematica without any problems :KS . In my mind, open office it's much more efficient than Ms Word, and even in windows I use exclusively OOO. I worked a lot with photoshop and Gimp can do easily what photoshop did for me in my MS time.

Strangely, the only software I have a problem with is called BlueJ ( It's a software to code in java). But I'm shure that whene I'll past one hour on it I'll have it on install properly.

Anyway, good lock in your MS future;)

[socomoddjob]

Ill end my thread with this last statement....

"Windows is like an old girlfriend....not someone you really want to be with but definitely gives a good bj."

[wolfen69]

say hello to bill for me.

[eentonig]

- No Photoshop or alot of other much needed windows programs
I can understand your issue. PS is the only reason I keep vmware on my machine. So I'll be able to use PS. I don't look down on the Gimp (Actually, I knew the Gimp before I knew PS), but PS just works better for me.

- WINE is terrible
I agree. It's an incredible masterpiece wine. But nine out of ten apps I try to install with it, I spend days troubeshooting or failing miserably. It's definitively not end-users ready.

- No Gaming
I agree if that's important to one.
- The terminal is an archeaic process to do things
I totally disagree. I hate DOS, but I could never live without the terminal. The things it allows me to do.... And everybody else in the familie (end users who just want to use the apps) never need to touch it. So I really don't see the problem.

- Crappy 2nd rate linux programs that try to copy Windows programs
True sometimes. Quite the opposite otherwise. Depends on which apps and which functionalities you value.

- Webcam issues
I don't use one, so no comment.
- DVD burning issues
I have no problem whatsoever. Use K3B, even in Gnome

- Microphone issues
No issue


But, it's a tool. If i doesn't do the job, you need to get another one. If windows works better for you, so be it.

[nymphaeles]

I have been using/testing Linux since 1999 with Red Hat 5.x. Although it has been a rough ride with some frustration at times, but I can only say that it's getting better and better every day. Check back some time and you'll see what I mean. Windows is the dominant player right now, but Linux gives you your freedom to explore the computer world. It also provides some solid protection for your safe use of a computer.
It's good to see that you have the will to try it out.

[UI-Freak]

i don't use a lot of graphics, but isn't gimp/inkscape as powerful as, if not more so than, photoshop?

MORE powerful? You gotta be kidding! ;)

Not by a long shot. If you do basic stuff, GIMP is adequate, but otherwise... I am personally importing RAW images from my expensive camera, and the entire process is a nightmare in GIMP (clumsy). The quality of the output is much better in Photoshop, especially if you have to print your stuff professionally.

InkScape is far away from Adobe Illustrator, but is a very good program for what it does. Very good for editing notes fx.

Don't underestimate the quality of the professional software for Windows and Mac. I like playing around with Linux a lot, but the software is disappointing and simply cannot assist me in my work.

I think free Linux software can be good for schools, for teaching of basic and also some advanced techniques, but for real professionals these programs can only replace Windows shareware software.

The thing I do not understand about Linux is why these programs don't evolve into very professional but free programs? I see TONS of software for Linux, but it is mostly small programs made by (a few) individuals. I see tons of programs that do the same, tons of instant messenger but no real voice and video support. No match for MSN or Yahoo Messenger.

If more people started working on plug-ins for GIMP that worked as good as the features in Photoshop, things would look better. More and many volunteers for features for Scribus, GIMP, Inkscape and NVU; as it is these programs evolve slooooowly.

My personal goal was to check out whether Linux could replace Windows. No way. It could if more resources were put into fewer programs and distributions. I have choice, but there is not much I can really use.

In short: Linux world! Make some priorities, concentrate on them and gain market shares.

[meman63]

All I can say is "It was nice having ya, and we'll still be here if you need us".

Hope to have ya back soon.The door is always open.For free,too.

Cheers,
Meman63

[floke]

Can we let this thread die now please?
There are too many of them around here.

[Wherdgo]

as to the comment about letting the developers know what needs to be worked on, via this thread - everyone knows wireless needs work and everyone knows a retarded drunk could use synaptic.

Wrong. Users new to Ubuntu don't know that the wireless isn't up to snuff, the install screens were designed larger than the baseline 640x480 resolution, or even what synaptic *IS*.

As a longtime veteran, but new to Ubuntu, I'm struggling with exactly all of these issues.

[lsutiger]

Wrong. Users new to Ubuntu don't know that the wireless isn't up to snuff, the install screens were designed larger than the baseline 640x480 resolution, or even what synaptic *IS*.

As a longtime veteran, but new to Ubuntu, I'm struggling with exactly all of these issues.

What exactly are you needing help with? I am a long time MS vet with about 5~6 months of Linux experience. I am learning something new just about every day. At first the switch was very hard..I had some 'go back to windoze' moments.
I am now running Ubuntu only on my laptop, with 3D acceleration, wireless networking with the broadcom chipset, and it does everything I need. Did it take work? YES! A lot of reading...and I mean a lot! And I posted every question here that I could ( and still do til this day), probably jacked up Google's servers (well, yeah thats a stretch), and read a few books.
I am no way a Linux pro, but I am getting there. It's just learning a new habit.

If you need help, it is here. Send me a message and I will help you out any way I can.

[karellen]

Too funny. That's the kind of unthinking comments I see all too often. The developers of your wireless card undoubtedly created it 'for windows', not 'for linux'. Of course it found it ootb, LinuxKiller! (oi). Linux devs have to try and figure it out without anything to go by accept what the thing needs to do.

Once again, this has nothing to do with windows being better than a linux distro. Just amazing. . .

well, I think he was not trying to say windows is better than linux, just that it works&suits his needs better. most of the people don't care "why"...and honestly I can't blame them. they are users...not strong believers in something, like (some) linux users

[Kilz]

- No Photoshop or alot of other much needed windows programs

Much needed and Windose applications should not share the same sentence. One has to wonder how much of a chance you gave linux if you think it needs windows applications.

- WINE is terrible

Wine is BETA software. The wine team is trying to reverse engineer one of the most buggy, insecure, backstabbing operating systems ever. That some things work, and it keeps getting better is a miracle.
Its whole reason for being is it gives some people who cant let go of the garbage they used on Windows a security blanket until they find a replacement in the 20000 free applications.

- No Gaming

No wonder you thought Wine was bad, you probably wanted to play games with it. No games? Lets see, Doom 3, Quake 4, and to play things you already own Cedega!!!

- The terminal is an archeaic process to do things

The terminal is the most powerful part of linux. Once you use it enough, you wonder how you ever got along without it. I love shell scripting. :D

- Crappy 2nd rate linux programs that try to copy Windows programs

You got that backwards. Windows is a crappy second rate copy.

- Webcam issues

No one wants to look at you anyway.

- DVD burning issues

With 20 or so free burning applications, there has to be one that works.

- Microphone issues

You have to plug it in.

I can sit here all day and list things that i dont like but i have a fresh copy of XP here waiting to be bombarded with all the stuff ive been missing while i was giving myself headaches in linux.

Yes you and viruses, and worms, and bugs , and rootkits, and hackers, and zombies, etc.... will all be bombarding it. So within hours it will start to run slower and slower. Within months you will be reformatting it. All the while Dapper hums along without antivirus, antispyware, firewall..... after a year.
I will always monitor Ubuntu to see how it develops, maybe one day ill try it again.[/QUOTE]
http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm Read this before you try again.

[steven8]

well, I think he was not trying to say windows is better than linux, just that it works&suits his needs better. most of the people don't care "why"...and honestly I can't blame them. they are users...not strong believers in something, like (some) linux users

Uh-huh.

[vexorian]

No Photoshop or alot of other much needed windows programs

Hey, just a question do you really need photoshop, Gimp is good, give it a chance, you can use WINE to run photoshop anyways, I'd like that one day we actually complaint to adobe instead of to linux for this.


- WINE is terrible

What's terrible are all the mainstream apps that don't use winapi consistently and waste development time adding features that are non-standard and hard to comply through WINE.


- No Gaming

No gaming, is it a reason for not being ready or a reason for not being a game entertainment console? I do enjoy some linux games and ports, there are thousands of games you can play on Linux and I am not kidding, however you might be worried about playing the latest games that's a totally different argument than "no gaming" , however there are a couple or 10 really good new games that work correctly on WINE.


- The terminal is an archeaic process to do things


Is it? Also, did you really need to use it? My Ubuntu experience is that in moments I I had to use the terminal were for very specific and unnecessary needs.

But later I began to like the terminal, guess it is a matter of taste.


- Crappy 2nd rate linux programs that try to copy Windows programs


Like which one? Actual complaints about which of them is crappy and about why is it crappy would be good, the developers need to know your opinion so they can improve them.


- DVD burning issues


I found windows to be extremely worse at CD/DVD burning than my ubuntu install, as in I am totally unable to do that in windows and I can in Ubuntu, that however is my own experience so it probably does not matter.




- Webcam issues
- Microphone issues


Possibly good points, I haven't tried neither of those hardware pieces so I can't opine on that.

[wyth]

The only reason I'm posting here is because I've had a great experience with Feisty, and save for using Dreamweaver and to download some firmware for an mp3 player, I've not needed to boot Windows at all for months. (Determined to get Dreamweaver running via Crossover Office). And the more I've used it, the more useful I've found it for work. Sure, I could do about the same things in Windows, but basically, I can do them more efficiently and in fewer steps in Linux,

And I was able to everything just perfectly as soon as I installed it because everything was just that simple. Just like how I got everything on Windows the first time I fired up windows, just like how I knew how to drive a stick shift the first time I sat in a Toyota, and just like how I knew how to set up my satellite TV out of the depths of primitive technical brain (sitting next to the reptilian part).

Is Linux easy to pick up? With a little guidance, I'd say yes. I just got my brother on Ubuntu via email. If there was something he didn't know about and needed info, he emailed (sometimes from Windows), I gave him the info and the pages, and he got up and running and is now probably lurking these pages. But he needed to ask for help, and didn't complain that Windows did everything better when he didn't understand something in Linux, so it was easy to help him.

[whiteguysamurai]

No need to be angry about his reaction, i'm sure most of us who came from windows and tried ubuntu reacted in the same way.
Ubuntu is just not for everyone, and nothing in guaranteed to work with it.
However for some people it works great because everyone uses their machine for something different, and this time linux wasn't able to fill your needs.
Keep your eyes peeled though, i think ubuntu is maybe two releases away from making a splash with "normal" people.

[Anonii]

This thread, is a tired thread. Let it sleep, gentlemen.

[socomoddjob]

I should have just started this thread like this.....

"I like Ubuntu but the lack of professional software like what Windows runs has driven me away....."

[francisco_athens]

I should have just started this thread like this.....

"I like Ubuntu but the lack of professional software like what Windows runs has driven me away....."

I think this would be more the responsibility of Adobe, and other commercial software developers. GNU/Linux wasn't given much consideration by Adobe until folks started putting pressure on them to make an updated version of Flash for GNU/Linux. It would be in their forums that requests for their professional software be made and addressed. Ubuntu cannot make "Photoshop" for you. You can't even make "Photoshop" for you (or anyone else), even if you knew how, you would face lawyers and litigation. Unless Adobe hired you, I suppose. If you want Photoshop on the OS of YOUR choice, be it Windows, OS X, GNU Linux, Plan 9, etc, you'll have to speak to the developers of that software. I wish you luck.

See there was a time when Windows users were upset because Adobe would not make them a current version of Photoshop. Adobe finally concede and gave Windows folks the privilege to buy their software. Then the Mac users felt left out, some traded their much loved Macs for a PC and an operating system that they were not familiar with, then Adobe concedes again as OS X emerges... feel free to return to this cycle. The nice thing about free software is that when the code is out there, it can be (and generally is) ported to many OS types (including Windows, OS X etc). So I figure it is better to learn software that does not force me to use one OS or another.

As far as hardware issues go, I find Ubuntu has great support for all of the hardware I use. By the way when I say "Ubuntu" I mean the community, the folks that have petitioned, reverse-engineered, documented and made drivers and applications for it.

You'll see that much of the time, the hardware is not even documented (such as video cards, network cards, etc) by the people who made it, which would otherwise allow those who bought it to use it any way they like. It's been up to the very talented and committed in the community to figure out how these things work so that everyone can benefit.

One might claim that Windows has the best hardware support. How would you define that? Before I switched to Ubuntu, I had lots of driver issues with Windows, TV cards and sound cards that worked well under 98 stopped working for 2000, XP obsoleted more of my CPU and RAM hardware. It actually made my hardware investments worthless.

Eventually I upgraded my hardware, but should I discard it? GNU/Linux has driver support for all of these things, so I can make a little computer for my kids to use that is the same modern OS that I use everyday. That makes supporting their computers very easy.

I'm not trying to convince you to stay with something that is not currently working out so well for you (well, maybe I am a little..). GNU/Linux works in very different ways than Windows. Getting over some of the differences is hard. I felt like I n00b, lost in the /etc/ jungle, but after a little while I realized that everything is very well documented and straight forward, rather than closed and clandestine. Did you ever find yourself messing with the Windows Registry!? Good luck figuring that out! The nice thing I discovered about /etc/ is that its just a bunch of plain text files and most everything in them has commentary as to what those settings do!

Anyhow, best of luck and come back soon,

Francisco

[AlanR8]

Hmm

I'm also 6 months down the road but with Kubuntu and guess what......I'm not going back!

I like the fact that I don't have to run anti virus or spy ware software. Makes my system faster.

I like the fact it will "talk" to Doze.

I like the fact that it picked up all the hardware on this Sony Vaio laptop and the wireless network "just works".

More than anything, I like the fact my 16 year old son asked me to exterminate Doze on his system and install Kubuntu! (He's a gamer but appreciates the Xbox and PS2).

It's not for everyone but it is for me. If you're a PC gamer, good luck with Uncle Bill.

Otherwise, it does all I want it to do.......and more

[linuxlizard]

Re: No Gaming:
Try these:

alien arena, army ops, enemy territory, legends, nexuiz, open arena, urban terror, warsow, world of padman

These are just the first person shooters I've got in ubuntu, I've also got arcade, racing, strategy, fantasy and educational games on my ubuntu box. A few years ago I would have agreed with you about no gaming. Today though, there are many really great free games available for a few clicks.

Check out this site: http://gaming.gwos.org

[crane]

Please let this post die.
He didn't like linux, OK Go Back to Windows. Sorry i didn't work out for him. I hate to sound like that but I'm sure he checked out some software, we don't need to keep telling him to use gimp.
Comments about Linux not being ready are just Flames. Linux IS ready but the software venders are not.
Linux does not have professional software.. another flame.
How many of these threads are there now. If someone says I don't like linux/Ubuntu, I'm leaving then obviosly they are not because they stick around to keep poking the fire.
I agree with a couple of earlier posts.

Let it die.

[Depressed Man]

Haha with that story I figure I'd add something interesting. After using Ubuntu thru Wubi on my laptop (minor issues still that prevent me from using it as the main OS such as hibernate/suspend) I tried installing Ubuntu on my desktop (was going redo the partitions anyway). So I did. Ubuntu setup perfectly, detected all my network hardware and everything..

Windows...

Did not. I can't find the CD that came with my motherboard, so I had to track down the Marvel lan port drivers, my wireless card's CD, and I still haven't found a way to get my Nvidia lan port working again. -_-

[init1]

Sorry guys and gals, I'm gave it a shot and I;m going to have to say good bye to Linux and Ubuntu. Without wireless support and an easy way to install programs, this is something that I'm not going to get. I'm a windows user and that's all there is to it.

I tried, but it just isn't going to work.
There are hundreds of other distros to try, but maybe thats not what you are looking for.
352 Linux Distributions (http://www.gridter.com/linx/linux.html)

[I. T. Sme]

I'm still using Ubuntu along with Windows, but even with Feisty Fawn there's still a lot of issues I have with it. I'll just list the more major ones:

1. Drivers. For example, I have a Dacal CD-300 Cd library. Libcdorganizer will interface with it, but it's only an operating program. Where's the database I need to catalog everything? I also have a Canon scanner I can't get to work. Thank God Nvidia has decent drivers, don't get me started on ATI......

2. Too many kludges and workarounds. I had to disable my onboard ethernet card to use my PCI Wif-fi card, otherwise Ubuntu would get confused about which ethernet card was which. I have to run True Combat in Sudo mode to get the sound working, and it took me a few hours to figure out how to get Quake II's files installed in the right directory and also get the sound working. Cinelerra required some or another shell script so it wouldn't pop up an error message, and so on.

3. A lot of the free software IS low quality. It's a balkanized mess out there--just look at all the movie editors based on ffmpeg, or the games based on the Quake I/II engines. Gimp is doable as Photoshop replacement, but it's a far cry from the original. What Linux needs badly is refinement and unity, not someone continually starting a new port or branch on something with their idea, and it either fizzles or else starts competing with all the other ports.

4. Games? Well, there are a lot out there, just see #3 and #2 above.

5. Removable drives. This is something less important as time goes on and fewer people use things like jazz or zip drives. Ubuntu seems flawless on USB and CD's/DVD's. However, I have two magneto optical drives that took enormous amounts of fiddling to get right under Edgy, I never even tried under Feisty. The problems were getting them recognized correctly and auto-mounted.

6. Installing things without Synaptic is awkward. If it's in a repository and Synaptic installs it, the thing works as smooth as butter. But that cool game or oddball driver can require anything from building form sources to fixing a broken installer (True Combat) and so on. I have the determination and willingness to do this, your average Windows user won't.

That said, Ubuntu has come miles away from the days when I tried Redhat 5 and couldn't evern get SVGA to work. However, there's a reason why I'm running Windows on three computers and Ubuntu so far on just one.

[steveneddy]

How many of these are there in one day?

http://img520.imageshack.us/img520/1544/postiig9bm6.gif (http://imageshack.us)

[vexorian]

Hey let me continue with the very long posts.

Should Ubuntu be a windows replacement? I seriously think it shouldn't point towards that direction, it should point towards being a great operating system. This said there is no necessity in my opinion to imitate everything windows makes. Usual is not necesarily a good thing.

Hardware support is an issue and we all know it, I would be a hypocrite, my scanner doesn't work.

Regarding installation of software I think Ubuntu has dealt with this correctly, the packages from the repository are very easy to install, for the medium user there are alternate repositories that also work.

Then there are all those games and things with ./configure combo, the real deal here is should the "average user" really install those? sure installataion should be easy and all but for non-main stream are non correctly released/tested software, I would really want the user to be better at what he is doing, so he should be able to survive the ./configure combo and all those tricky installers out there... It sounds bad and all but that kind of program should be hard to install.


Regarding quality, again thegimp should be compared with programs like paint and paintshoppro and the such, it is afterall a free product, although I've seen that it is dismissed just because it doesn't have an interface like photoshop's and not actually because of power. For the needs of an average joe thegimp should really be enough, again this is just an opinion.

About unity and consistency and going only towards one direction, I got to say that it is one of the good things about Linux. You may consider it a bad thing again if you are too used to windows, but Linux is all about choice, of course making a decition will always be a hard thing to do, I like the fact there's gnome and kde and xcfe and probably every month a new desktop manager is born, just like species that helps evolution, if many ideas come to live there's always a good chance a good idea will pop out.

Does it make things confusing? sure it does. But I think it has its own set of pros to counter the cons.

---
But I am overall satisfied with Ubuntu Feisty , I wouldn't yet recommend it to anyone though, but I have seen old redhat 4.0 , Ubuntu breezy and Ubuntu dapper, the speed in which things improve makes me hopeful.

[jusmurph]

Dual booting is for the win. I could never practically (gamer) leave Windows, though i enjoy the wonders that is Ubuntu. Nothing is 'hard' in Linux given a little patience.

[karellen]

Dual booting is for the win. I could never practically (gamer) leave Windows, though i enjoy the wonders that is Ubuntu. Nothing is 'hard' in Linux given a little patience.

"patience" is a mysterious(unknown) word for many people
;)

[benjoseph]

Dear Friends,

The main reason I have migrated to LINUX is purely for the sake of FREEDOM. The idea to be in an environment where people work for the sake to improve other people lives makes me feel fantastic. True living Windows is a journey with many obstacles. But we need to remember that people who made LINUX a success they did so out of shear enthusiasm scarifying time and energy freely. I did not left Window for saving money, but to migrate to a better world. This to me is a freedom. Freedom to choose what is right event to the point of to give up our comfort zone for a worthing principle. I had to give up Corel Draw that I have been using for more than fifteen years, so what?

Thank you folks for having choose FREEDOM.

Ben Joseph

[steven8]

Dual booting is for the win. I could never practically (gamer) leave Windows, though i enjoy the wonders that is Ubuntu. Nothing is 'hard' in Linux given a little patience.

Now you see, that's a good common sense decision and statement. Much better than just, "I can't play games so I'm leaving."

[OzzyFrank]

I love Ubuntu. I have quite a setup in Windows, with many sophisticated and expensive programs, but I'm doing pretty much everything I need in Ubuntu now... with free apps. And some things I can only do in Ubuntu, and some of the apps in Ubuntu I much prefer to the Windows equivalents. I find the terminal is awesome in the power it can give you with some commands, so while it might be archaic, I prefer to type one line and hit Enter than clicking through icons and buttons for 2-3 minutes (I'm not lazy, but I'm not a moron either). And if someone in a forum answers a question with a line of command, all you have to do is copy and paste it into a terminal, rather than wade through instructions like in Windows. How much easier can it get than THAT??

As for Wine, yeah, sure, it doesn't successfully run every app, but boy it has impressed me so far. A couple of apps i thought would run quite easy haven't, but then I've gotten Mailwasher Pro and DVDShrink to work so far, so I'm more happy with it than not. Getting Mailwasher Pro to run has meant much less trips into Windows (it bounces spam back, which I personally see as very important, so that program is vital to me).

As for burning DVDs, it can do anything no need. But, just like in Windows, you actually need to get programs to do that for you. There are apps for all DVD tasks, even a DVDshrink to shrink to single layer, and countless burners, from simple to sophisticated. It really perplexes me when I read posts about people complaining that they've been in Ubuntu for 6 months or whatever and they haven't even burned a DVD yet. I'm like "Well, burn one then"... Ubuntu comes with a couple apps, and a hell of a lot are available via Synaptic.

It amazes me that people with much more modest computing needs than me can find Ubuntu doesn't have what it takes, while I'm using Windows less and less and do so many different tasks in Ubuntu. But then I have to realise that some people aren't all that savvy with computers, and since it takes those people much longer to learn Windows, going through another learning curve is a nightmare, not a joy. I am a computer tutor, and pretty much break down people into 2 types (based on how they respond to their first goes on a PC): those that start moving the mouse and straight away go "Oh, it's sort of like your index finger on the screen"... and the others who guide the mouse around with a total look of bewilderment on their faces, and even though you repeatedly tell them, "See, it's like your index finger, but on the screen", they just don't see the connection, and almost can't fathom why the cursor is wildly flying around the screen just coz their hand is moving... but after the 4th lesson or so, can finally yelp with joy coz they managed to click that X button and make the window disappear...

... Well, the latter should stay away from Ubuntu... unless they haven't already traumatised themselves with Windows...

But seriously, I've read posts about 7 yo kids using Ubuntu... to burn CDs no less. Ubuntu is so easy to use, I've started converting others. And I'm definitely telling all my clients to stay the frig away from Vista!!

[crxvfr]

I'm a noob that shares in the frustrations that ubuntu fans are defending.

#1 the terminal is not as archaic as it is cryptic

I can come here for help and get a simple command line to plug into terminal. Its output and functionality is completely detached from any sense of common sense or continuity, at least for me. Most of the time when I enter a line in terminal, other than the jibberish (to me) that scrolls by, I can see no visible signs that anythings been done. I usually can't find new menu items or directories, ...leaving me completely clueless as to what I just did. I've reloaded dozens of times fearing that I've installed components that will cause conflicts with other stuff. Synaptic does not classify similar components. Doing a search for wine, for example, yields a long file list that I know wasn't all part of the package. Uninstalling has been a major pain for me.

I just installed wine. It creates directories you can't see and runs from a gui that you can't get to without typing. A task that would be a simple few clicks in windows turns into a major task when you have to change directories, accounts, permissions, etc, all by hand, character by character.

I'm not giving up. I know I have alot to learn but I think if ubuntu ever wants a major marketshare, they might have to build better bridges to microsoft minded people that WANT to change.

[socomoddjob]

Please let this post die.
He didn't like linux, OK Go Back to Windows. Sorry i didn't work out for him. I hate to sound like that but I'm sure he checked out some software, we don't need to keep telling him to use gimp.
Comments about Linux not being ready are just Flames. Linux IS ready but the software venders are not.
Linux does not have professional software.. another flame.
How many of these threads are there now. If someone says I don't like linux/Ubuntu, I'm leaving then obviosly they are not because they stick around to keep poking the fire.
I agree with a couple of earlier posts.

Let it die.

Ummmmmm, quite a few people are having discussions in this thread about what i wrote....why should this thread die? Because you think Ubuntu is the uber god OS?

Where is the flame regarding Linux not having good, professional software like Windows does? Its the truth. Software like The GIMP couldnt hold Photoshops jock strap. Im on Windows using CS3....sure beats having to use Photoshop 7 that works well when it wants to.

Im actually very happy since going back to XP......ive realized how much faster it is than Ubuntu. Mark Shuttleworth has alot more work to do before i ever come back to linux.

[P_Badger]

Ummmmmm, quite a few people are having discussions in this thread about what i wrote....why should this thread die? Because you think Ubuntu is the uber god OS?

Where is the flame regarding Linux not having good, professional software like Windows does? Its the truth. Software like The GIMP couldnt hold Photoshops jock strap. Im on Windows using CS3....sure beats having to use Photoshop 7 that works well when it wants to.

Im actually very happy since going back to XP......ive realized how much faster it is than Ubuntu. Mark Shuttleworth has alot more work to do before i ever come back to linux.

That was one of the best flaming/trolling posts I've seen in this forum yet! GOOD SHOW!! That should definitely keep people coming in here to defend Ubuntu from your merciless words!

Door, @ss, etc. Enjoy your sh*tty os.

[wolfen69]

hey socom, why don't you go to the windows message boards where people actually care about what you think. fondle bill gates nutsack somewhere else.

[steveneddy]

Funny - one of his first threads was a Bye Bye windows thread.

I did notice that he didn't have many posts, but maybe he was lurking in the forums. That's how I learned. I read a LOT at first. I failed, and I tried again.

I ditched Windows and didn't look back,and it took about 6 months.

BUT - I didn't give myself any reason to go back to Windows.

BTW - I still keep an old XP box around for when friends need help I can easily Remote Desktop to their machines. Other than that, the XP never gets fired up. I don't game, much, and I love to read.

I came to Linux for the stability and reliability. I learned to use The Gimp well and Avidemux as needed.

Sorry you are going. Maybe one day you will come back, but you need to choose the OS that you like. It is about choice and you made your choice. Freedom. That's the bottom line here. He is free to choose his own OS just like we did.

:popcorn:

[saxuntu]

As the newest of newbs i can understand the wireless thing, it drove me nuts.

The program installation i think is fan-freakin-tastic, repositories are one of the greatest inventions known to man. Package manager is one big freakn reason why i'm loving linux and sidelining windows.

[VorDesigns]

Sorry but why do people feel the need to announce this?
Because if a Windows user announced they were going somewhere else, people would just laugh at them.

[ticopelp]

Well, goodbye for the second or third time or whatever we're up to now.

[socomoddjob]

I did notice that he didn't have many posts, but maybe he was lurking in the forums. That's how I learned. I read a LOT at first. I failed, and I tried again.


Thank you.

During my stint with Ubu i was on these here forums many times a day...reading and learning. I just got to the point where i got sick of spending so much time doing that, i have better things to do with my life.

Windows + Bittorrent = Easy computing

As i have previously stated in posts in this thread i will always lurk here and monitor Ubu. Im sure a few more versions down the road ill dual boot it and give it another shot.

[meho_r]

Hi,

I'm still ''green'' when Ubuntu is at stake (have been using it for 3 month now), but I must admit that it has taken countless ''wow''s from me. I've been using Windows for over a decade, Adobe Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign... too and tried linux (SUSE) before cca 3 years. Since that time, everything I do - I do on Linux (Ubuntu and openSUSE).

- Photoshop: GIMP definitely CAN be replacement for those used to work with Photoshop. For professional works it is ''a must'' that YOU are a professional, not software. Professionals don't depend on Photoshop's ''one-click-and-everything-is-done'' features anyway. Take some time and learn - you'll see that GIMP IS enough for all you can imagine. And, there are many professionals that ARE using GIMP.

- Illustrator: great peace of software. In the beginning I missed it a lot. But, then I have found Inkscape and XaraLX. Like for Photoshop: everything I could do in Illustrator I can do in these two too.

- InDesign: Hm, Scribus is fair replacement. With few tricks, you can make ''miracles'' with it. And if you are in DTP branch (like me), Scribus and (La)TeX is more than enough.

- Office: OpenOffice is, if you ask me, much useful than MS Office.

- DVD burning: There's many of DVDs that I have burned on Win (Nero, Alcohol, CloneCD, Ashampoo...), and not few of them stop functioning after some time. That NEVER happend with DVDs burned with K3B or Gnome Baker. Burning on Linux IS better.

- Hardware: No problems at all. Everything is functioning perfectly. True, it takes same time and effort for installing graphics drivers, but not a problem. Few posts on forum and problem is solved.

- Microphone: No issues at all. Works great.

- Command line/Konsole: Couple of hours spent learning and you are a king;) It's amazing what you can do with it. Btw, installing software with apt-get is much better for me than Windows Setup procedures. A friend of mine ''converted'' to Ubuntu just because of this:)

- There are countless features that make Linux ''OS of choice'', and I am happy to become one of those lucky guys who realize that;) If only for great community - it alone is enough reason. It's good to be part of it:) Linux is great and it's ready to be ''OS of choice''.

Linux requires from you to learn, but, let be realistic: when you turn on your PC first time and see ''Windows XX'' - how long have you been learning Windows since then? If you expect to be guru for Linux after few days/months - you'll be dissappointed. You must read and learn. A lot. And if you are patient, reward will come:) I uninstalled Linux couple of time frustrated because ''it wouldn't work!''. Then I realized that ''It worked, but not in a way that I've been expecting.'' (Win) Now I'm happy and grateful that I didn't give up at start...

[Enverex]

... so you posted this why? I mean are you expecting people to beg for you to come back? Maybe a leaving hamper? An obituary maybe?

[gizmoarena]

....
Linux requires from you to learn, but, let be realistic: when you turn on your PC first time and see ''Windows XX'' - how long have you been learning Windows since then? If you expect to be guru for Linux after few days/months - you'll be dissappointed. You must read and learn. A lot. And if you are patient, reward will come:) I uninstalled Linux couple of time frustrated because ''it wouldn't work!''. Then I realized that ''It worked, but not in a way that I've been expecting.'' (Win) Now I'm happy and grateful that I didn't give up at start...

You don't know what are you talking about.
I don't understand why people compare linux distros with windows :|

[Enverex]

You don't know what are you talking about.
I don't understand why people compare linux distros with windows :|

I think he explained it perfectly while you just claimed he "doesn't know what he's talking about" without even saying why.

Linux distros are compared to Windows because they are the direct competition to fill the same roll as the home desktop PC OS (at least in this context anyway).

[wolfen69]

for the love of god, let this thread die.

[OzzyFrank]

for the love of god, let this thread die.

... then why'd you post?

hehehe

[BoomShaka]

Hi

I've never posted here before, only read a few posts about switching to/from Ubuntu/Windows so here begins my foray into the linux world.

I can't understand why some people have a problem with this thread not dying, no one is forcing you to read it. I understand that there are 30 other threads just like it, but they are all helpfull, and this is the "Ubuntu Testimonials and Experiences" section after all and most of the replies to this thread have been quite constructive (aside from the constant suggestions to use TheGimp as an alternative to Photoshop, tee hee :p).
I am intending to switch to Ubuntu in the coming weeks (once I decide what laptop to get, I'll probably end up with the Dell pre-installed one) and posts like these are actually quite informative for someone like me.

It's very helpful to hear what other long time windows users think of Ubuntu and their reasons for returning to Windows or their reasons for sticking with Ubuntu. Obviously Ubuntu is not Windows, as is very nicely laid out in this article: http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm

However it is of course natural to compare the two, since it is a direct trade of Windows for Ubuntu that a lot of us are talking about. That said, complaining that feature x of Ubuntu works differently to its counterpart on Windows is very naive. One can't undertake to learn a new OS unless they really are willing to put in the work and time to get used to it. As far as I am concerned 6 months is a fair enough amount of time to pass judgement from a personal perspective on whether it is the OS for you. In this case it isn't the OS for socomoddjob.

Sorry for not letting this thread die, don't burst a blood vessel ;)

Looking forward to joining the Ubuntu revolution :)
Boom

[Al Fairclough]

Welcome to the 'revolution', BoomShaka. For me, it is not so much the content of the thread that is a problem, it is the title. I find it a bit annoying to see it continuously come up in a 'Testimonial' forum about Ubuntu. I too wish the thread a rapid death. :)

[OzzyFrank]

OK... some of you might have reasons for wishing this thread to die, but I agree with others who think this is a good informative one for newbs. I also am somewhat disturbed people actually go cruising through threads to tell people to stop posting... that really is beyond me. To keep posting into threads you don't want expanding... I dunno, maybe you're really that bored that you can't find anything positive to post in the whole of the forums. I'd say if you've gotten yourself to that stage, you may as well consider spending some quality time downloading porn. Seriously, I actually feel embarrassed for you guys who keep posting your nazi-like demands for us to stop conversing with each other.

In case you didn't get: If you can't stand this thread, you'd have to be a moron to stay around... or just a killjoy... either way, just move on man, just move on...

As for BoomShaka, welcome to the crowd. As you can see from POSTS LIKE THIS that there are many opinions, but I am glad to see you have a realistic approach. It isn't Windows, but then again Ubuntu isn't that different. Some things might be, but are easily enough learned.

I'm hoping you'll be like me, more than pleasantly surprised with Ubuntu. A few hours of happy geeking, a couple here and there of frustration, moments of glorious triumph... really, it's the same learning Windows, though I can pretty much promise you that you're not that much of a beginner in Ubuntu if you're familiar with Windows. Some will obviously disagree, but in general use they are quite similar. As for the obvious differences, they're all covered in heaps of pages and forums over the web. I've yet to find a question I can't answer. Yet, in the Windows world there are questions I would have thought easy to find answers for but I'm still looking (like why the hell Word loads itself on startup complaining about not being able to save Normal.dot!).

Anyway, welcome, hope you like Ubuntu, and my most humblest apologies to those sensitive people I may have offended by posting into this thread.

[socomoddjob]

Ive actually been missing the feeling of Ubuntu in the past day........

[socomoddjob]

I couldnt take it anymore, the withdrawl was too much.

I re-installed ubuntu.

[Drate]

I have the solution to all your problems man.... Dual boot... it's a wonderful thing. ;-)

Best if Windows is first install and Ubuntu second, but it is possible to install GRUB boot loader after Windows... look into it.

[dustigroove]

Now you just need to buy a Mac to complete your OS schizophrenia...

Good bye, and welcome back.

[dptxp]

I couldnt take it anymore, the withdrawl was too much.

I re-installed ubuntu.

You said that XP was far better.
You kept on coming back.
You reinstalled.
You are not the only one.

[steveneddy]

... so you posted this why? I mean are you expecting people to beg for you to come back? Maybe a leaving hamper? An obituary maybe?

I'm a little curious about this myself.

[steveneddy]

I couldnt take it anymore, the withdrawl was too much.

I re-installed ubuntu.

ROTF LMAO

Welcome back!

For an experience that will be more reliable, just try to stay stock and put a few wallpapers up that you like, don't try to rebuild the whole house, even though you can.

That was my downfall when I first started using Linux, I thought because I could, I should. I broke stuff. BUT - I learned along the way.

ATM - my server runs 6.10 (Dapper) and my lappie has 7.04 (Feisty) with Compiz-Fission and a little tweaking for things that matter only to me.

Mostly stock but I can impress those who care about sparkly, shiny desktops and beat Vista out of the water every time.

But - it is relaible because I use the stock nVidia video driver (nvidia-glx-new) - (with cool bits installed) - and I try not to install programs that aren't in the repo's. There is stuff there that I can use and I do install new apps often. I try not to play around with the settings too much anymore. I need it to work, everyday.

I enjoy the reliability and stability more than tweaking for tweaking sake.

Cheers-

-SE

[socomoddjob]

I missed beryl........sniff sniff.

[ukripper]

I missed beryl........sniff sniff.
So you came back just for beryl, you sure?

[burt_57]

Well, i have been using ubuntu exclusively for the last 6 months, i unfortunately have decided that XP works alot better for me. I gave linux a fair shot and ive learned quite a good deal in the process but i dont think Ubuntu is quite ready for prime time.

That is why I kept Windows Xp
I dual boot.
One drive has Windows, the other Ubuntu

[a1unix529]

For just over one year I have been using Ubuntu exclusively. However, just under a month ago I had installed AT&T U-verse. Now, I have a 2Wire Wireless USB Adapter that was a pain just to install. And now, I can't get Ubuntu to connect to any WPA network. I can connect to a non-encrypted network just fine, leading me to believe that there is some kind of bug in wpa_supplicant. However, all of this is just too much.

I may return to a proprietary world filled with supported hardware and software but I will be back. Mark my words: I WILL BE BACK... as soon as Gutsy Goblin...err...Gibbon is released.

PS, if I can get this thing working soon then I will not leave at all. I just had to tell this short story to someone who understands. It's my way of venting.

[Andrewie]

dual-boot....

you can have your cake and eat it too

[scrooge_74]

Probably the drivers dont have WAP support.

You should check for a card with better support

[a1unix529]

I am dual-booting right now. I'm on XP.

I don't like using XP for too long because I miss Ubuntu when I'm not using it; though, Ubuntu doesn't connect to my network.

[a1unix529]

Probably the drivers dont have WAP support.

You should check for a card with better support
It works every now and then. What gives?

[shawnpdillon]

I personally love ubuntu. I work with XP every day at work, and just got done with a desktop rollout of about 150 machines over the last month or so. That's 150 recent installs of XP, completely ready for the users. I can say with absolute certainty that I know how quickly or not XP takes to get right. Well, Ubuntu took about 1/3 the time it usually does for XP, and I couldn't be happier with my wireless networking and printing. Ndiswrapper was a minor pain, but I went ahead and ran a mess of updates and then installed the graphical frontend for Ndiswrapper found in Add/Remove (synaptic). Twenty minutes later everything was great. I would definitely try to play around with it more and go ahead and dual-boot in case it gets to be too much. Don't let yourself get discouraged.

[Cresho]

yeah don't give up, post your hardware specs and features.

[H.E. Pennypacker]

First, give support a shot, and let's see if a solution can be found.

Second, if no solution can be found, what stops you from dual-booting? It's freedom you won't find anywhere else. Stop using Ubuntu for a while, but leave it where it is, and when Gutsy comes around, check again. If it is not Gutsy, try a higher version. There's nothing to lose.

Third, don't leave, even if everythig is a nightmare. You can be helpful by reporting bugs, mentioning that your hardware is not working, and reporting it on launchpad.net. Create bug reports, tell others what is wrong, and keep the focus on what you are displeased with.

[The Noble]

If you are using network manager, try using other wifi managers. I used wicd, which allowed me to use wpa networking (I could only connect to unprotected sites before). kwifi may also work. Just try a few before you give up.

[a1unix529]

My point is this: I'm not totally giving up on Ubuntu. I love Ubuntu. And I bet that in the next year or so Ubuntu will be better than ever. But right now I have more pressing matters to attend to than trying to get my computer connected to the Internet. I am left with an ultimatum that has no favorable side: stick with Ubuntu and spend too much time trying to fix things, among them my Internet connection; or temporarily return to the dark side so I can actually get some work done around here, and believe me it's dark over here.

I will keep trying my best to fix my main issue w/Ubuntu--my Internet connection--but I have to throw in the towel at some point.

PS, I have tried for 3+ weeks to enable my wireless connection to the Internet. Thus far, I have yet to see consistent results. It works sometimes but is highly unreliable at best.

[a1unix529]

If you are using network manager, try using other wifi managers. I used wicd, which allowed me to use wpa networking (I could only connect to unprotected sites before). kwifi may also work. Just try a few before you give up.
I'm not using network-manager or any other management software. I edit my configuration files directly.

[ticopelp]

I understand frustration, certainly, but I'm really puzzled why you (or anyone) wouldn't just post a thread asking for help, rather than declaring "I'm leaving! You better stop me!"

I ran into issues all the time when I was first installing Linux, but I didn't go crowing my intentions to abandon the OS every time I ran into difficulty.

Again, I totally know what you're going through to some degree, but you might have better luck next time with a more accurate (instead of misleading) thread title, maybe even put in the correct forum. Unless you're just venting and don't want help, of course -- in which case, nevermind, I suppose :D

[vexorian]

(s)he is not leaving, he is just forced to use windows XP because of hardware that doesn't support linux correctly.

[RAV TUX]

I left once, reinstalled XP...fixed it all up...that lasted a about a day.

I look forward to your return. ;)

[ticopelp]

(s)he is not leaving, he is just forced to use windows XP because of hardware that doesn't support linux correctly.

Uh thanks, I'm fully aware of that.

[mdsmedia]

I left once, reinstalled XP...fixed it all up...that lasted a about a day.

I look forward to your return. ;)I'm still very much a Linux n00b, but when I have to go into Windows I do what I have to do and get back to Linux.

Not a day goes by, when I'm using Windows at work, that I don't complain under my breath or even out loud, that Linux is so much nicer at "doing this or that", or just say "bl**dy Windows", or if it's in Office..."bl**dy MSFT".

I'd rather live with the any problems I have with Linux, get around them, or fix them (with my lack of knowhow), and know that everything I want or need is right there where I want it, than deal with the limitations and annoyances of XP.

[a1unix529]

I understand frustration, certainly, but I'm really puzzled why you (or anyone) wouldn't just post a thread asking for help, rather than declaring "I'm leaving! You better stop me!"

I ran into issues all the time when I was first installing Linux, but I didn't go crowing my intentions to abandon the OS every time I ran into difficulty.

Again, I totally know what you're going through to some degree, but you might have better luck next time with a more accurate (instead of misleading) thread title, maybe even put in the correct forum. Unless you're just venting and don't want help, of course -- in which case, nevermind, I suppose :D
I've been posting in threads (and forums) where appropriate. Check my history.

I never once "declared," "I'm leaving! You better stop me!"

I am not you, am I?

The title of this thread is not misleading; I will need to stop using Ubuntu soon if I can't get it to work properly. And, I figured that this is the best forum for my "story" about why I am saying goodbye to Ubuntu. And yes, I guess, I am venting (as I stated in my original post).

:D

[a1unix529]

I left once, reinstalled XP...fixed it all up...that lasted a about a day.

I look forward to your return. ;)
Believe me, so do I. :(

[karellen]

well from my point of view having issues with hardware would be enough for me to abandon an os. if a tool doesn't do its job and all I need, then I'll change it. just an opinion...

[ticopelp]

The title of this thread is not misleading; I will need to stop using Ubuntu soon if I can't get it to work properly. And, I figured that this is the best forum for my "story" about why I am saying goodbye to Ubuntu. And yes, I guess, I am venting a bit.

:D

You made a thread entitled "I'm saying goodbye" in which you explained that you weren't saying goodbye. That's misleading. Not that it's a big deal. ;)

[a1unix529]

You made a thread entitled "I'm saying goodbye" in which you explained that you weren't saying goodbye. That's misleading. Not that it's a big deal. ;)
In that case, think of my original post as a README or EULA: read it carefully. I said that I would not leave if I can get Ubuntu to operate as it should. I have yet to do so.

[ticopelp]

In that case, think of my original post as a README or EULA: read it carefully. I said that I would not leave if I can get Ubuntu to operate as it should. I have yet to do so.

Then you're not really saying goodbye yet, are you?

Anyway, don't take me too seriously. I'm not going to belabor this tiny nitpick anymore. :)

[macogw]

Different drivers implement things differently. Some don't support WPA or do support it but not with NetworkManager. For a USB wireless adapter with WPA with NetworkManager, get one with a Zydas chipset. They're pretty well supported. Check out http://linux-wless.passys.nl/query_chipset.php?chipset=Zydas

[macogw]

I left once, reinstalled XP...fixed it all up...that lasted a about a day.

I look forward to your return. ;)
Yeah, couldn't get internet on XP, so ya figured you'd just play your video game since it was an offline game. Turned out it had unresolved dependencies (see guys, this happens on Windows too), but you couldn't get online to get the dependency. The only way to get online would have required getting online to get the Windows internet driver. I remember that one, and the marathon fight with about 10 distros refusing to install.

[Feba]

Have you considered just trying another distro? Take a few hours to try out something like Mint, or Debian, or DSL, or Puppy, or PClinuxOS or, or, or *trails off, mentions distrowatch.com, starts talking about food.*

[wordgf]

what brand of wirelles do you have in your computer?:(

[mips]

For just over one year I have been using Ubuntu exclusively. However, just under a month ago I had installed AT&T U-verse. Now, I have a 2Wire Wireless USB Adapter that was a pain just to install. And now, I can't get Ubuntu to connect to any WPA network. I can connect to a non-encrypted network just fine, leading me to believe that there is some kind of bug in wpa_supplicant. However, all of this is just too much.

What do you need the 2wire USB adapter for ???

Tell us a bit more about your network setup at home and wherever else.

[the.dark.lord]

for the love of god, let this thread die.

I hate posts like this!

For the love of god, no one is forcing to read this.

And socomoddjob, welcome back!

[the.dark.lord]

OK... some of you might have reasons for wishing this thread to die, but I agree with others who think this is a good informative one for newbs. I also am somewhat disturbed people actually go cruising through threads to tell people to stop posting... that really is beyond me. To keep posting into threads you don't want expanding... I dunno, maybe you're really that bored that you can't find anything positive to post in the whole of the forums. I'd say if you've gotten yourself to that stage, you may as well consider spending some quality time downloading porn. Seriously, I actually feel embarrassed for you guys who keep posting your nazi-like demands for us to stop conversing with each other.

In case you didn't get: If you can't stand this thread, you'd have to be a moron to stay around... or just a killjoy... either way, just move on man, just move on...

As for BoomShaka, welcome to the crowd. As you can see from POSTS LIKE THIS that there are many opinions, but I am glad to see you have a realistic approach. It isn't Windows, but then again Ubuntu isn't that different. Some things might be, but are easily enough learned.

I'm hoping you'll be like me, more than pleasantly surprised with Ubuntu. A few hours of happy geeking, a couple here and there of frustration, moments of glorious triumph... really, it's the same learning Windows, though I can pretty much promise you that you're not that much of a beginner in Ubuntu if you're familiar with Windows. Some will obviously disagree, but in general use they are quite similar. As for the obvious differences, they're all covered in heaps of pages and forums over the web. I've yet to find a question I can't answer. Yet, in the Windows world there are questions I would have thought easy to find answers for but I'm still looking (like why the hell Word loads itself on startup complaining about not being able to save Normal.dot!).

Anyway, welcome, hope you like Ubuntu, and my most humblest apologies to those sensitive people I may have offended by posting into this thread.

Hear, hear. Very well said.

[loell]

isn't it rather late for a reply? to an old post, stirring the lake, eh? ;)

[Corbelius]

For just over one year I have been using Ubuntu exclusively. However, just under a month ago I had installed AT&T U-verse. Now, I have a 2Wire Wireless USB Adapter that was a pain just to install. And now, I can't get Ubuntu to connect to any WPA network. I can connect to a non-encrypted network just fine, leading me to believe that there is some kind of bug in wpa_supplicant. However, all of this is just too much.

I may return to a proprietary world filled with supported hardware and software but I will be back. Mark my words: I WILL BE BACK... as soon as Gutsy Goblin...err...Gibbon is released.

PS, if I can get this thing working soon then I will not leave at all. I just had to tell this short story to someone who understands. It's my way of venting.

):P

[a1unix529]

):P
Ah ha ha ha haa! See, this is more of what I was expecting. This is why I posted this thread in this forum. To all of you who are trying to help: thank you, really, thank you. However, like I said, I've chugged along this rail for as long as I can. For now, I have to say "Goodbye, Ubuntu!"

BTW, this doesn't mean that you won't see me on here anymore. Hey, I just signed up!

@ticopelp: thanks.

[a1unix529]

Have you considered just trying another distro? Take a few hours to try out something like Mint, or Debian, or DSL, or Puppy, or PClinuxOS or, or, or *trails off, mentions distrowatch.com, starts talking about food.*
I've been trying distros since 2004; I've selected Ubuntu in perpetuum.

[ThinkBuntu]

Excuse me, kind sir, but I believe you were looking for The "Bye, Ubuntu" thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=275013&highlight=bye+ubuntu+thread).

[a1unix529]

what brand of wirelles do you have in your computer?:(
It's a 2Wire 802.11g USB Adapter.

VendorID: 1630
DeviceID: 0005
{1630:0005}

[a1unix529]

Excuse me, kind sir, but I believe you were looking for The "Bye, Ubuntu" thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=275013&highlight=bye+ubuntu+thread).
Yes, yes, I was. Instead, I searched for "leaving ubuntu." Should have known... thanks!

[mips]

It's a 2Wire 802.11g USB Adapter.

VendorID: 1630
DeviceID: 0005
{1630:0005}

As per my prevoius question, why do you have to use this ??? Explain a bit more.

[a1unix529]

As per my prevoius question, why do you have to use this ??? Explain a bit more.
At the risk of sounding stubborn, I'll say this: because it is my decision. I'm feeling a little bit of pressure coming from you. What is your intent?

[socomoddjob]

This thread has the 6th most views ever in the testimonials forum....glad to know theres so many people out there concerned about my OS experiences.

[Enverex]

This thread has the 6th most views ever in the testimonials forum....glad to know theres so many people out there concerned about my OS experiences.

Drama = Views.
Views || Drama != Quality.

[dustigroove]

Post removed (as it was a bit abrupt).

[josys36]

Ya know what I did for the lack of some software is to use Windows inside Virtual Box. This way I don't have to dual boot and can still do what I need to do.

Might be something you want to take a look at.

Jason

[mym-linux]

how can i get to ubuntu root directory? i've been trying to add splash image to grub bootloader but ubuntu is not having some of the command like default = ?

[starcannon]

So basically you are saying that for Linux to grow it should be a bad Windows imitation? Did it ever occur to you that Linux is growing BECAUSE it's not like Windows? Linux would lose most of it's userbase if it went in that direction and with that userbase goes the developers.


Think you misread, and honestly I agree with him, he wasn't saying it should be "like windows" in the sense that they are not distinguishable from one another, what I read is that hardware support should be as effortless generally speaking as it is in windows... that is, in order for Linux to grow.

I put Ubuntu on my mothers machine, turned off the update manager (she lives too far away to make house calls on kernel patch day) She loves it, and the reason is, she doesn't have to know how it works, it just does.

Most people want the install to be point and click, those of us who like to optimize will always optimize, making the OS point and click installable and maintainable won't ruin the system for optimizers, it will make it accessible to the general populace.

Anyway thats my 2cents on the subject. /shrug, hope the guy comes back sometime.

P.S. I found this thread looking for a how to on WAP :lol:

[meho_r]

You don't know what are you talking about.
I don't understand why people compare linux distros with windows :|

Man, you must understand that many of us started computing with a PC which had preinstalled Windows 95 or 98 on it and it is completely natural that we adopted some ''Windows ways of thinking'' because it was the only OS we knew. In '90s, I didn't even hear of Linux (no, I'm not some IT-guru, programmer or something like that). And beside that, people every day ''convert'' from WINDOWS to LINUX, so what do you expect? They do compare Win and Linux and they always will. You should stop closing your eyes. I've been using Win for 10 years, have spent many of hours, days reading and learning. And now, I put all that behind my back because of Linux and started from beginning. If you think it's easy, you're wrong. So believe me, I do know very well what I'm talking about...

[DrEmpire]

given up to soon i bet youll be back, i been useing linux for a about 7 years but i couldent leave windows untill i found ubuntu with its gui made everything so easy for the person who dont write much code which is me im way to busy with work (computer enginear) :O)the only code i write is basics to be able to get pcs running, (dos),now i am learning a whole new os and loveing it cant get enuff of ubuntu and the help in the forums here are amazing even starting to learn some basics codes in ubuntu

[ukripper]

This thread has the 6th most views ever in the testimonials forum....glad to know theres so many people out there concerned about my OS experiences.

Well as the first reaction seeing your title Bye Ubuntu made me feel good as here is no place for drama queens. Good God you leaving!:popcorn:

[airtonix]

um has the OP even bothers to return? dont think so....give it a rest already


the less Laodecians that we have in this world the better...

let those with lack-lustre determination slide back down into the sludge pit of stupidity

[ComplexNumber]

um has the OP even bothers to return? dont think so....give it a rest already

he last posted on may 31st 2007. the OP made the "im leaving" post in january 2006. so it does appear that he has come back.

[steven8]

he last posted on may 31st 2007. the OP made the "im leaving" post in january 2006. so it does appear that he has come back.

which op? Isn't this a mish-mash of about a dozen different thread?

[cprofitt]

Sorry but why do people feel the need to announce this?

Dunno.

Why do people need to announce that they us Ubunut, OSX or any other OS?

[steven8]

I doubt that anyone who has left windows to come to Ubuntu has gone on a windows forum and announced that they were leaving. They come here and announced that they have arrived.

Why?

Because, with windows, you know you are a consumer, and only a consumer. With Ubuntu, it is a family, and the welcome mat has been put out.

[kamaboko]

I doubt that anyone who has left windows to come to Ubuntu has gone on a windows forum and announced that they were leaving. They come here and announced that they have arrived.

Why?

Because, with windows, you know you are a consumer, and only a consumer. With Ubuntu, it is a family, and the welcome mat has been put out.

I see no difference between the Linux user groups in my area and the Microsoft user groups. Both are family atmospheres.

[the bored majority]

i think it depends more what side of the community you participate in. i have xp on my main box still simply because no flavor of linux will boot on it. those communities (software support and such) are sometimes harsh and unrelenting. now if you like tweaking and modding stuff on your system (like me particularly litestep which i've used for a good 7+ years now) then those communities are awesome and easier to ask for and get help with.

linux/ubuntu is all community based. simply a better atmosphere where more people are willing to help. of course you do get those annoying trolls once in a while that think everyone's an idiot.

some people might not see it, but i do see a clear distinction in both communities.

[Fitzy_oz]

i think it depends more what side of the community you participate in. i have xp on my main box still simply because no flavor of linux will boot on it. those communities (software support and such) are sometimes harsh and unrelenting. now if you like tweaking and modding stuff on your system (like me particularly litestep which i've used for a good 7+ years now) then those communities are awesome and easier to ask for and get help with.

linux/ubuntu is all community based. simply a better atmosphere where more people are willing to help. of course you do get those annoying trolls once in a while that think everyone's an idiot.

some people might not see it, but i do see a clear distinction in both communities.

I thinks thats a staple in most forums, thankfully it's not to prevelant here. I know sometimes when I'm running throught he Absolute beginner section (Something i think everyone should do at least every now and again to lend a hand) and some of the forum replies I see are quite ridiculous, obiviously from people who seem to forget that the forums are here to help people and answer their questions, not scald them for asking in the first place. I can't speak for the MS/Windows related forums but I imagine it's a similar situation over there.

[speeddemon8803]

aysiu some laptops now come with ubuntu pre-installed on them ;)

[ubanchaos]

well dont give up on linux period try another distro or sumthin at least try freespire i heard its good (but im not using it tho im all ubuntu baby!!!)

[ev5unleash1]

I found that Ubuntu Studio 7.04 has more bugs in it then the regular Ubuntu. There is alot of wireless problems I have a restricted driver for my intel wireless right now. Try to mess around with the settings like manually putting in the information and making sure it's swtiched on though the settings. It always works for me.

[sauronsmatrix]

Without wireless support and an easy way to install programs, this is something that I'm not going to get.

Both of those statements are false.

[sgt_urankar]

Only people who like challanges live with linux. Sad to say that linux is not for everyone, thanks again msft!!!! Actually I would like to call out the hardware guys for negleting the future of OS's. If all you want out of your os is wireless than get a card that works. I hope vista continues to go down in flames. That what happens you threaten to sue everyone who uses GPLed software.

[Unhindered]

In response to may other posts in the forum I agree that Ubuntu, or more likely, Linux in general is half-baked.

I write this to other newbies, who may have been working with computers and programming for years on Windows, who want to make the switch. I'm not writing this to the support community that writes support comments like "If you can not click inside a box perhaps ubuntu isnt for you?" In fact, you're part of the reason for the post.

I've spent hours and hours and hours of my time trying to get Ubuntu set up to work. The OS works fine, but trying to do anything that isn't set up by default is confusing, time consuming and frustrating unless you're a mega-linux-geek.

The computer-users of the world have moved away from terminal. It was a good move. Using Ubuntu feels like a step back 15 years in computer usage because of how insanely dependant on command-lines it is. It's a joke to say that newbies can do this - we can't. And cutting and pasting to the command line would only be helpful if it accomplished the task.

Instructions for installations outside of Automatix or Synaptic have never worked for me, and there are rarely any alternative instructions. You can follow the instructions step-by-step, cut-and-paste into terminal to ensure everything is exact - it doesn't work.

This is likely my last or second-to-last boot into Ubuntu. It won't run my programs correctly (samba, eclipse w/ remote system plugin, Internet Explorer - ie4linux, Flash, and more), it won't even install half the time, it's not supported well, even in the forums.

I simply cannot afford Ubuntu Linux. It is so expensive in the cost of my time, I've spent double or triple the cost of Windows Vista in time lost to trying to get Ubuntu Linux working.

Alternative instructions? Working software? Help? What do you think this is, commercial software? Go back to that lousy land we make fun of where you're stuck paying microsoft, don't get to use command-lines all day long, and, to make you the laughing stock of this forum... use functional software.

I expect to get flamed by the ubergeeks on the forum blasting me for not inherently knowing x, y and z, but I figured it might be useful to the newbies. When you find that things aren't working, it's not yet worth your time.

[p_quarles]

I expect to get flamed by the ubergeeks on the forum blasting me for not inherently knowing x, y and z, but I figured it might be useful to the newbies. When you find that things aren't working, it's not yet worth your time.

Well, your post was clearly flamebait, so I'm guessing you "expect" it less than you actually "hope" for it. Anything for attention, right?

[dca]

I'm not gonna' flame anybody. To me the OS is transparent, it is what it is. If you're used to working w/ Windows, stay with Windows. All there is to it. You can't be an expert in MS, Mac, *nix, all at once. Pick one and find out all you can about it.

[swisscow]

Damn, I forgot to say goodbye to Windows when I left.

[Rocket2DMn]

If anybody told you making the switch to linux was going to be a breeze, they were lying to you. It is impossible to deny that there is a steep learning curve, esp. if you don't understand computers well. Many newbies are able to make the switch because they only use their computers for simple tasks like checking email, surfing the web, and playing media. Some stuff just isn't easy in get setup in linux - it's a tradeoff. It is free, ever-evolving, and developers have open ears for the users and can develop to meet their needs. However, this freedom comes at a cost - not everything will always work correctly out of the box, support is offered on a free basis, by other users who dedicated their time to helping others.
We're sorry it didn't work out for you. Maybe in a few years linux will be ready to meet your needs.

[jingo811]

Goodbye :-\" and come again.
When my tutorial is finished you'll get back here I'm sure it's just gonna take some years. Still have to code the homepage on top of all the writing.

[SPQQKY]

I had the same feelings, and I also posted this, which is something my father told me.....

"If it's easy, it's not worth doing."

So yeah, it may not be easy, but if you're of the type that doesn't care to learn, then I guess Linux is not for you. I also had the same feeling, but I also hate giving up and I like to expand my knowledge.
So if you're lazy, have plenty of money to spend on Windows and all the rediculously expensive software, then I guess you should stay away from Linux.

[PhatStreet]

I'm not gonna' flame anybody. To me the OS is transparent, it is what it is. If you're used to working w/ Windows, stay with Windows. All there is to it. You can't be an expert in MS, Mac, *nix, all at once. Pick one and find out all you can about it.
Yep, to me the terminal is an amazing tool, I use Yakuake in Arch Linux, which is a rather terminal-dependent distro, and I can get work done so much faster...
Perhaps you should give OS X a try?

[Dr Small]

I've spent hours and hours and hours of my time trying to get Ubuntu set up to work. The OS works fine, but trying to do anything that isn't set up by default is confusing, time consuming and frustrating unless you're a mega-linux-geek.
I switched to Ubuntu in one day, never had a single problem, and never used a Linux Distribution in my life. I loved it, loved the terminal, and like taking that "15 year step backwards", as I am a geek.

Ubuntu is easy, lightweight, and Linux, so what do you expect. :P

[playme123]

Im new to ubuntu, and if you feel its not for you then so be it.
However my argument even though I get buggered of with somethings that dont just work.
Microsoft are a massive corporation what have the time and the money to ie test hardware and get drivers and other stuff. Yeh I still have win xp on my box and still use it.
Linux is community based they dont have the massive resourses and money microsft have so alot of stuff will not just work.
I found ubuntu a refreshing change from windows, not having to worry about viruses and so forth, yeh cant still get my wireless card to work, yeh still cant get my webcam to work(if want to use webcam I use it in windows). I know they will work in time.
Remember linux/ubuntu are a free operating system so there will be flaws and I hope these are addressed in the october update.
I you dont like it then stick with windows apart from your time you aint lost anything

[TechieZero]

I just started a few days ago and you aren't telling me what I didn't already know going in to it all. I am however surprised at how well it has been working for me as I expected far, far, worse.

I think if you make the leap to Ubuntu, you have to expect to discard much (for ex. Internet Explorer) and just plunge headfirst in to it all. The machine I did install Unbuntu was a going to the trash heap and this OS actually saved it as I am finding that I can make it usefull again (Teamspeak Server etc). However as a power gamer etc, I still have my Vista 32 box to satisfy those needs.

I agree you do need to learn BASH etc which is a big leap if you have no background in command line based OS'. However to get the fullest use out of a Win based OS', knowing the command line ins & outs can really help as well --- even for Vista.

[Andavane]

Rome wasn't built in a day.
A little patience works wonders.
Regards
John

[w4ett]

Yep, to me the terminal is an amazing tool, I use Yakuake in Arch Linux, which is a rather terminal-dependent distro, and I can get work done so much faster...
Perhaps you should give OS X a try?

Yes...OS X...it has a terminal available too......

[eoshicute]

hmm.. I think ubuntu is easy, better easy than redhat or the other varian. It's all about learning, seems like when you first use windows and DOS. so... no matter what you say, but I'm still love ubuntu :D

[Ripfox]

It's a joke to say that newbies can do this - we can't.

Speak for yourself...

Looks like you got hindered, unhindered :)

[EndPerform]

MMmmmm flamebait. Anyway, figured I'd throw my 0.02 in here, even though you probably aren't coming back to read it.

In response to may other posts in the forum I agree that Ubuntu, or more likely, Linux in general is half-baked.


No more half-baked than Windows, really. In fact, I only needed to install updated video drivers when I installed Linux. Windows? Let's see: motherboard drivers, sound card drivers, network card drivers, video drivers and I won't go into the software I had track down and install in Windows to get it to a base install of Linux.


I've spent hours and hours and hours of my time trying to get Ubuntu set up to work. The OS works fine, but trying to do anything that isn't set up by default is confusing, time consuming and frustrating unless you're a mega-linux-geek.


I'm curious as to what you had issues with, specifically. I've dealt with a few newcomers before, and I hadn't heard from them that they're spending hours and hours of time trying to get something to work.


The computer-users of the world have moved away from terminal. It was a good move. Using Ubuntu feels like a step back 15 years in computer usage because of how insanely dependant on command-lines it is. It's a joke to say that newbies can do this - we can't. And cutting and pasting to the command line would only be helpful if it accomplished the task.


In your opinion, it was a good move, but personally I'd rather not be dependent on a graphical frontend all of the time. In fact, Windows still has a command-line and it has not completely been eliminated. Again, I'm curious as to what has been so horrible that you couldn't get working. All posts I've seen in this community have been quite helpful, and usually if someone mistypes a command in their post, they post the corrected version of it in the thread. I've had to use some examples here myself, and have yet to trip across a command that didn't perform as advertised.



Alternative instructions? Working software? Help? What do you think this is, commercial software? Go back to that lousy land we make fun of where you're stuck paying microsoft, don't get to use command-lines all day long, and, to make you the laughing stock of this forum... use functional software.

I expect to get flamed by the ubergeeks on the forum blasting me for not inherently knowing x, y and z, but I figured it might be useful to the newbies. When you find that things aren't working, it's not yet worth your time.

I hate to tell you this, but my Linux install is a lot more functional than my Windows install. It does all I need it to, and then some. Windows is only on my desktop for those games I can't get to run in Linux. And posting flamebait such as this will normally get you flamed. I personally don't think this is useful at all to newbies, especially if they're curious. Your experiences do not equal everyone's experiences, as again, I've seen plenty of newbies up and running in no time flat.

[Nythain]

all i have to say is on the move from commandline... EVERY pretty gui is nothing more than a fancy front end for a command line system... Every app you run in windows, and even windows it self, is nothing more than a pretty, masked, representation of a command or series of commands.

I personally like linux leaving me the terminal... as now when i run an app and it goes fubar, i have debugging output that i can reserach and learn how to fix... windows leaves you in the dark... its like this:

Windows - Program crashes -----> Would you like to tell microsoft that your program crashed so we MIGHT work on fixing it 6 years later

Linux - Program crashes -----> Look at terminal output, find that there was a syntax error in line 27 of whatever file, or that you dont have the appropriated libraries, etc. -----> Google for a bit -----> fix problem and continue running program

[SPQQKY]

Here's a flash of reality. I've seen so many issues with Windows it's sickening and you have to pay for it. My aunt bought a new computer and paid HIGH dollar for Adobe PhotoShop and she also bought Corel Paint shop only to find out they didn't work with the version of Windows she got. You know, you can't return that software 'cause they think you pirated it. So say goodbye to $600 worth of software. If she didn't live so far away I could have helped her, but she was at a loss.
If you're gonna have issues, it may as well be free.

[playme123]

Here's a flash of reality. I've seen so many issues with Windows it's sickening and you have to pay for it. My aunt bought a new computer and paid HIGH dollar for Adobe PhotoShop and she also bought Corel Paint shop only to find out they didn't work with the version of Windows she got. You know, you can't return that software 'cause they think you pirated it. So say goodbye to $600 worth of software. If she didn't live so far away I could have helped her, but she was at a loss.
If you're gonna have issues, it may as well be free.

DITTO

[aysiu]

I've moved this thread to join its friends.

[ML Northridge]

Sadly he does have a point with the geeks. I have been "geeked" in other forums (just recently joined this one).

To a newbie, getting slapped down or given tech questions in jargon is frustrating.

However, linux does have some great qualities. With no real demos to learn from, newbies are forced into forums to answer questions they can't comunicate well with.

Once I fiqured out all the linux jargon and get comfortable, I will attempt to switch my wife. She has no patience to learn, so I have to make it easy for her.

Let's all take the comments he said and try to learn something from it.

my $.02

[aysiu]

This is a false dichotomy ("newbies" and "geeks"). Every Linux "geek" was a "newbie" at one point or another. And anyone who is willing to install and configure an operating system is at least a little geeky.

[A*p]

Don't buy hardware that is not Linux friendly, I know it is a little late for that suggestion now, but keep it in mind for when you next upgrade or get a new machine. Then the one reason that is keeping you tied to that other OS will disappear.

[SirPecanGum]

Yeah... my problem with Ubuntu and the reason I use it less and less is:

1. Embedded video does not work reliably.
2. Video card problems (I currently use nvidia for what it is worth). What a drama!
3. Although software is very easy to install - much easier than Windows I think - it lacks functionality.
4. Having to reinstall the TV every single time I update the kernel - what! Life is too short!
5. I suspect there is much more. These are what I have just encountered during an update.

There are of course many things I miss when I am in Windows but there are plenty of people preaching those things on this forum, which, is possibly the best Ubuntu has to offer; this forum. The bringing together of people to help each other. Never experienced anything like it in Windows.

Like a lot of people though I have more money than time so I am increasingly defaulting to Windows as much as I would rather use Ubuntu and would gladly pay for it if the above problems were solved without my time.

Enjoy!

[scrooge_74]

Yeah... my problem with Ubuntu and the reason I use it less and less is:

1. Embedded video does not work reliably.
2. Video card problems (I currently use nvidia for what it is worth). What a drama!
3. Although software is very easy to install - much easier than Windows I think - it lacks functionality.
4. Having to reinstall the TV every single time I update the kernel - what! Life is too short!
5. I suspect there is much more. These are what I have just encountered during an update.

There are of course many things I miss when I am in Windows but there are plenty of people preaching those things on this forum, which, is possibly the best Ubuntu has to offer; this forum. The bringing together of people to help each other. Never experienced anything like it in Windows.

Like a lot of people though I have more money than time so I am increasingly defaulting to Windows as much as I would rather use Ubuntu and would gladly pay for it if the above problems were solved without my time.

Enjoy!

Certainly there are somethings you will be able to do better in Windows as long as hardware is not compatible.

I have not had any problem with my Nvidia card in a long while, at some point I just update it from time to time.

But again your hardware issues are just the problem of not having the correct drivers due to lack of support from manufacturers

[ori_ab]

after overcoming many obstacles in ubuntu feisty, mostly using this great forum and spending days on getting it to work as it should i think i will have to say bye to ubuntu because of a very small but very frustrating problem : i cannot get my favourite radio station stream to play correctly without skipping/stopping etc...
i tried installing every codec, every player, even tried reinstalling ubuntu & kubuntu but still no go...when i play this station with winamp on my xp machine it plays flawlessly. i cant spend 16 hours+ using my computer without this music...and running vmware as an audio player sounds very bad...so bye bye for now :(

[kamaboko]

Don't buy hardware that is not Linux friendly, .

Where's the freedom in that? I thought Linux was about freedom?

[p_quarles]

Where's the freedom in that? I thought Linux was about freedom?
Freedom is a guiding principle for most distros, but that doesn't mean it can magically work with proprietary hardware that is designed to run on closed-source Windows drivers.

By analogy: owning an automobile grants certain kinds of freedom. That doesn't mean that it will run on grape juice.

[LuisAugusto]

Where's the freedom in that? I thought Linux was about freedom?

You gave them the hand, and they took your feet.

Of course, Linux is about that, but if the manufacter doesn't help, Linux can't make anything. If you buy compatible hardware then you'll have all freedom you want.

See you

[jdunn]

Utter frustration.



So anyway, I think that Ubuntu, given time, will be right up there with Windows in ease of use.

Maybe he'll be back.

Ubuntu/Kubuntu is great and I would recommend it to anyone not using wireless ethernet. Its great for my two desktop PCs at home that use a wired network. Wireless just doesn't work easily. Its the fault of the hardware manufacturers who are only interested in making drivers for Winblows. Linux users must resort to reverse engineering the hardware to develop any working drivers. This is why wireless support is so bad on Linux and it will probably never improve substantially..

[vwbeamer]

I never seen it happen here, and i've personally ahave asked some dumb questions.



Sadly he does have a point with the geeks. I have been "geeked" in other forums (just recently joined this one).

To a newbie, getting slapped down or given tech questions in jargon is frustrating.

However, linux does have some great qualities. With no real demos to learn from, newbies are forced into forums to answer questions they can't comunicate well with.

Once I fiqured out all the linux jargon and get comfortable, I will attempt to switch my wife. She has no patience to learn, so I have to make it easy for her.

Let's all take the comments he said and try to learn something from it.

my $.02

[manndani]

I'm very new to Linux, only been using XP for a few years but having tried several distros, I found Ubuntu to be the most friendly to new users.
I tried several including Pclinuxos and although I managed to set everything the way I wanted (mounting disks etc), after a reboot it was all gone, wouldn't let me re-mount them, so I tried Ubuntu had no probs at all.
The only thing that's stopped me ditching XP altogether is that I haven't found anything as good as the photo printing wizard that XP as got.
But it doesn't really matter I just dual boot with Ubuntu as 1st O/S.
Learnt a lot using thes forums and others, just searched and found all the info I needed without having to ask.
Thanks to all those that have posted info on the forums.

[Ripfox]

This is a false dichotomy ("newbies" and "geeks"). Every Linux "geek" was a "newbie" at one point or another. And anyone who is willing to install and configure an operating system is at least a little geeky.

Agreed...

[veebee]

I'm new to Linux as well, and have Kubutnu x64 on 1 Laptop and 2 core 2 duos.

Sometimes it is frustrating...Ive tried to install "virtual box" but keep getting the "known" problem of unable to access kernel.. something or other, and then VMware (put one letter wrong in the "code" which stopped the installation, and I have no idea how to get back into that part so I need to download the whole lot again (I thought I was really clever seting it to delete packages after installation !).

But, I will persist. There are plenty of people willing to help, all I need to do is ask usually.

The lack of wireless is a problem for me, 4 machines spread around the house, now have cables going everywhere :(

BTW, if anyone knows how to overcome this permissions issue in vbox (I did try allowing all users (sudo'd), but it wouldn't let me), I would appreciate a PM or email or messenger to chat me through it.

Cheers, and, Kubuntu is Pretty windows like, just need to learn some new things

[bingobingo]

Well spacedogg, I could say the same to ZenWalk, no matter what version I tried, it refuses to recognize my optical drive on my PowerMate Eco, thus I can not even load it on my computer. Ubuntu works well except the current Freezing Problem that is Driving Me up the Wall.
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=412125&highlight=freezing

[nystud162]

i can say that i know why you left. I spent 3 days staying up till 4 am trying to configure my Linksys WGUSB54GC wireless card and still to this day have no idea how i set it up. Im extremely worried if i somehow screw up my installation and dont know how to fix it because im new to Linux. But if i figure out how to do it i'll post a tutorial here because it was so hard to set the thing up. I then had to install ntfs3g to read my media hard drive but i couldn't because it was a "dirty" mount. I forced it to mount several times and it it worked fine for about a month and then it started to bug out and i was unable to read alot of data off of it. I actually had to take my hard drive out and put it into an external hard drive casing and then attach it to a windows pc and run chkdsk /F in the command prompt... SO MANY ERRORS!! Also i had to configure my graphics card and had to specify the PCI slot because for some reason it chose the wrong slot so i couldnt boot up to begin with.

I probably spent a painstakingly 2 days in total configuring my ubuntu PC on my Dell E310 to just be used to surf the web. This was odd cause i installed the whole OS on my laptop in only a few hours and it worked flawlessly.

[PryGuy]

I then had to install ntfs3g to read my media hard drive but i couldn't because it was a "dirty" mount. I forced it to mount several times and it it worked fine for about a month and then it started to bug out and i was unable to read alot of data off of it. I get a feeling that we live on different planets reading such things... My ntfs-3g installation was a breeze and I haven't got a single error having rw access. What is a 'dirty' mount?

[ders]

I just installed Ubuntu on a home theater machine I'm building. I am a Windows user through and through, but this distro is absolutely fantastic. It makes everything that used to be a chore a dream. I would argue that it is easier to install stuff through Ubuntu than it is through windows, all I had to do was figure out how to edit the read only file sources.list. I haven't gotten MythTV or Freevo to work yet (dependency issues) but this experience seriously makes me want to put it on my main machine. A big thanks to the developers!

[nystud162]

I get a feeling that we live on different planets reading such things... My ntfs-3g installation was a breeze and I haven't got a single error having rw access. What is a 'dirty' mount?

I'm not even exactly sure... but my interpretation is that it's a corrupted volume. All i had to do was to run 'chkdsk /F' in MSDOS and then it fixed a bunch of volume errors.

[A*p]

Where's the freedom in that? I thought Linux was about freedom?

I don't think you quite grasp the the meaning of freedom within Linux. Of course you can buy whatever hardware you like, tweak and create your own drivers if none exist, but when company's deliver closed propriety drivers only for windows and have no Linux support then you are bound to run into trouble when new to Ubuntu.

If, as a user, you are at a stage when simple tasks like navigating the Linux file structure are hard, making necessary changes so that hardware will work to config files or compiling source code, even the kernel itself are all more of less out of the question. But it is great to know you have the freedom to do this if you wish.

[firedancer]

before 'switching' check out what to expect, if you want a suv to offroad check if it is 4x4 "ready"


what i'm saying is that , i also was excited (about ubuntu) and suddenly i had sleepless nights (although i enjoyed them) having to figure out this os ,

but the ubuntu developers have to do something really bad for me to switch now

so for newbies (which i'm by the way) check for compatibility before trying , i've learned that now

i just don't throw in a cd and expect magic (although it happens)

i think it should be stated somewhere for newbies to check the compatibility list

but that might be another problem with the variety of hardware that exists



(not bashing)
MS never did it for me :-&

and i won't stop saying that i've learned so much , not only about the *nix system but pc's in general in just a few mnths using ubuntu

this might sound stupid, but i'm actually proud of myself (knowing much more about pc's now)

now when i go into a store , sometimes i have to help the salesperson
there's a store where i buy my stuff, they actually installed ubuntu on some of their machines after having a talk with one of the guys


so in the learning proces , U actually get smarter ...that's what i enjoy , learning !

sorry for the long writing ..,


(not bashing)
[-Xbut i don't go a ms forum (if they exist) and say : "You know bill's stuff doesn't work for me"
I WISH THERE WAS A SITE TO DO THAT :lol:

[PryGuy]

I'm not even exactly sure... but my interpretation is that it's a corrupted volume. All i had to do was to run 'chkdsk /F' in MSDOS and then it fixed a bunch of volume errors.It's a very funny thing, but I had to face this problem the next day after I made the previous post here. Yes, there is dirty mount. It occurs when Windows schedules disk check on next boot or the Windows was put to hibernate or something. Many reasons actually... 'ntfsfix' didn't solve the problem and since I completely removed Windows from that PC the only chance I had was to backup my data, kill NTFS partition and then create ext3 instead of it. I have learnt how to mount the new ext3 parition to /home also. Ubuntu is a nice thing, it replaced all my silly computer games also... :)

[KernelKen]

Well I can say for myself I love Ubuntu. But it is not everything I want it to be yet either.

And speaking as a newbie to Ubuntu. I think that everyone as a society has become accustomed to a big company (insert company name here) to picking what to install on a computer. With Ubuntu you have so many choices, maybe to many. (sorry, did I really just type that)

And more importantly you go to the store buy a program and install it with a Windows computer. But with Ubuntu you have to search a little.

Maybe if the software programs were wrapped in shiny colorful boxes and a price tag applied people would find Ubuntu easier. I am talking crazy now.

Just a thought.

[ashughes]

Sorry but why do people feel the need to announce this?

It is a desperate cry for help. They want to stay but are backed into a corner.

[oo-boon-too]

I can understand why he went back.
You can think of it as putting an English speaking person in the middle of China, he/she will be confused as hell. Maybe, giver time, he will begin to understand a few things, then become very good at speaking Chinese. But for some that is too much. So he/she goes back to America:P

That analogy was by no means stating that Ubuntu is Chinese, or any other race. Nor was it stating that it is not Chinese. Lol,,,

GNU/Linux can be a big jump from Windows, especially for a Gamer (As many apps don't work too well, or there is major tune-ups that need to be done for them to work). But for the average MS Office/Bussiness person GNU/Linux is a dream.

BTW, threadstarter, you don't OWN Windows lol...thats what made me throw in the towel. MS is so stuck up sometimes (ok all the time) that I just couldnt handle it.
The following is taken from BadVista.org to support my opinion:

Even when you legally buy Vista, you don't own it.

Windows Vista, like previous versions of Windows, is proprietary software: leased to you under a license that severely restricts how you can use it, and without source code, so nobody but Microsoft can change it or even verify what it really does.

Microsoft says it best:

The software is licensed, not sold. This agreement only gives you some rights to use the software. Microsoft reserves all other rights. Unless applicable law gives you more rights despite this limitation, you may use the software only as expressly permitted in this agreement. In doing so, you must comply with any technical limitations in the software that only allow you to use it in certain ways.

To make it even more confusing, different versions of Vista have different licensing restrictions. You can read all of the licenses at http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/useterms/default.aspx.

It's painful to read the licenses, and this is often why people don't object to them. But if we don't start objecting, we will lose valuable freedoms. Here are some of the ridiculous restrictions you will find in your reading:

* If your copy of Vista came with the purchase of a new computer, that copy of Vista may only be legally used on that machine, forever.
* If you bought Vista in a retail store and installed it on a machine you already owned, you have to completely delete it on that machine before you can install it on another machine.
* You give Microsoft the right, through programs like Windows Defender, to delete programs from your system that it decides are spyware.
* You consent to being spied upon by Microsoft, through the “Windows Genuine Advantage” system. This system tries to identify instances of copying that Microsoft thinks are illegitimate. Unfortunately, a recent study indicated that this system has already screwed up in over 500,000 cases.

Free software like GNU/Linux does not require you to consent to these absurd licensing terms. It is called free software because you are free to make as many copies as you want, and to share it with as many friends as you want. Nobody will be monitoring your actions or falsely calling you a thief.

[erfahren]

* You give Microsoft the right, through programs like Windows Defender, to delete programs from your system that it decides are spyware.


that's what really bothers me about Windows. I use all freeware and open-source software in my Windows install. I've found that it's much less problematic (if at all) that way. Even if I'm only licensed to use the OS, the other software I put on it is my business (maybe I want spyware on my pc, and just maybe I like getting spanked with a riding crop every night! What's it to them?).

It's still necessary for me to have Windows just to be able to provide tech support to others if nothing else. (I also like to watch Netflix movies online which, as far as I've found, only really works with IE and WinMediaPlayer.) I've just recently migrated to Vista (only because I broke the display on my old WinXP notebook) and although I don't seem to be having the problems with it I've seen others have, I still don't like it as much as XP. I had my WinXP install skinned and customized just the way I wanted it, but I can't even get my frickin "All Programs" menu to stay in the order I want it to be (it keeps on alphabetizing it, even though I have that option unchecked). Those of you who haven't seen the Vista Start>All Programs menu on a new install should see all the damn different Windows programs shorcuts that are just put in there without a containing folder (like I'd want that?), immensely presumptuous if you ask me!

I'd recommend any Windows user who wants to try Linux go with a dual-boot setup to start with. I think some don't even research it before jumping into it and then get frustrated when it's not as easy as they thought it would be. I see that all the time on Yahoo! Answers, people asking how to install Ubuntu and dual-boot and the like, when a quick Google search would bring up hermanzone's site with everything they'd need to know. If a person can't even be bothered with with doing a little searching how to they expect to be able to use a new OS?!

Even though I've seen reports and articles that Ubuntu doesn't work "out-of-the-box" and is as good for new users as much as it's purported to, it's so immensely popular that doing a general Google search of a problem will likely come up with a Ubuntu specific solution. Most of the problems I've had were just with configuring things with the proprietory drivers, but the HowTo's here are excellent.

For me the learning, challenge and getting things to work in Ubuntu is enjoyable in itself. And Windows gets frickin annoying to use, it seems like everytime I turn around some program needs to update itself. The Linux way is much better!

In conclusion, I think I'm going to boot into Vista now and say "Bye, Windows Defender". It's pretty lame anyway!

(here's a screenshot of my current desktop (http://www.geocities.com/one_tweak_loop/misc_files/clean_scrnshot_ubuntu.htm), just like showing it off!)

[smoker]

(here's a screenshot of my current desktop (http://www.geocities.com/one_tweak_loop/misc_files/clean_scrnshot_ubuntu.htm), just like showing it off!)

excellent desktop, did you make that yourself? you could maybe post it in the gallery and i'm sure you'll get some positive feedback :-)

[seanX]

Well, I got a top-of-the-line laptop (64-bit Dual Processor) with Windows Vista Installed on it. I was
disgusted at how Vista is not fully backward compatible with *commercial* software which I bought and
ran fine in Windows XP. I actually crashed the entire Windows Vista Operating system
when trying to Install from a factory CD of a commercial sound editor.

I wasn't very happy with Windows Vista, but you can't just get rid of it right?

So, like everyone else is saying, install Ubuntu as a dual boot if you have enough HD space
to accomodate both (e.g., 100 GB total or more, Ubuntu actually doesn't need much more than
10 GB to itself, but I used a 70 GB partition).

In comparing the two operating sytems (Windows Vista and Ubuntu Fiesty Fawn), I would say
both have issues and aren't at perfection for the layman yet. As for technically skilled people,
they can easily use either without any problem.

When comparing Windows XP to Fiesty Fawn, one would have to admit that Windows XP is
much easier to get up and running if you are not a computer whiz.

So, what I'm trying to say is that Windows Vista is actually giving Linux a fighting chance - but
LInux distros still have a ways to go to make sure "stupid" users can get up and running faster
on their variety of hardware.

[erfahren]

excellent desktop, did you make that yourself? you could maybe post it in the gallery and i'm sure you'll get some positive feedback :-)
no, I didn't make the wallpaper myself. it's by cammarro (http://www.gnome-look.org/usermanager/search.php?username=cammarro&action=contents). it's classy though, isn't it?!
the gDesklet I found here: http://www.technetra.com/writings/archive/2007/04/20/updated-weather-gdesklets

thanks! and I did go and post it over there

[bonzodog]

I wasn't very happy with Windows Vista, but you can't just get rid of it right?


I did.
I just bought a brand new Acer Travelmate 4200WLMi laptop that came pre-installed with Windows Vista Home Basic. It took windows 1 and a half hours to complete the initial set-up!.

I rang the shop, and asked how they would honour the warranty, and they told me to use the image back-up tool that came with it, and burn the image to DVD, which I promptly did. I also left a 6GB recovery partition in place on it.

I then formatted the rest of the hard disk, and installed Feisty on it, and everything Just Worked. Wireless, Bluetooth, Card reader, the lot.

So, yes, you can remove vista, but be careful to back the machine install Image up to DVD first.

[lg5productions]

Don't go into the light! :lolflag:

[socomoddjob]

Well as the first reaction seeing your title Bye Ubuntu made me feel good as here is no place for drama queens. Good God you leaving!:popcorn:

Actually ive been going Ubuntu non stop since my last post in this thread. My views on linux has changed since i got compiz fusion going.

Im definitely done with Windows.

[nowshining]

hey if you think the wine is terrible looking, just hitch me up or get go to C:\windows\fonts

and burn a disk or copy them to usb in the font folder and then go to in ubuntu to Computer (click computer at top) fiesystem Hit ctrl+H, go to home then your username and then find a folder called .wine, open it up go to drive_c then windows then fonts and copy all the Fonts in the Fonts folder you have burned to a CD/DVD or USB drive and copy and paste them there, this is what worked for me.. :) and now wine programs look much better..

edit: I have an ol' vli8 xp computer and that I just re-installed XP on, it's a test computer basically and has a rootkit on it (i put it on there with the ecard.virus) and again go the invisible files before they disappeared and copies two onto my usb drive, however even renaming the extension to something else wouldn't work as even in a diff. folder it hid them, then even changing the beginning name didn't work- same thing, so renaming them wholly only worked,... My point - This is going to be a test computer for viruses, trojans.. I plan on putting it on the internet soon and testing to see how a hacked attact will work. with dialup of course.. :P I'll be posting my testimonial soon...and anyway goodbye..hope u come back when your ready.. :P

[akhom]

i've been using ubuntu for about 2 months now and i love it.
but i am too a dual-booter(GAMER) other then that its all ubuntu for me.

i do think tho that the transition to ubuntu was easier for me because im younger and i haven't been using windows "all my life" so i don't feel that i have too have it or i'll die.
it's free so I don't have to make life decisions like buy MS<insert item name here> OR save that money to fix my car engine and gets some window tints.
im 17 and going into my senior year of high school and bill thinks I'm gonna give him my money?
WTF is his problem?

plus you seem smarter when you use linux so thats like +10,000 cool points.

[markcaetano@gmail.com]

dont get me wrong, i like ubuntu. but until it can do basic things out of the box....eg DVD and mp3 playback. its not really appealing!

[smoker]

dont get me wrong, i like ubuntu. but until it can do basic things out of the box....eg DVD and mp3 playback. its not really appealing!

couple of clicks and sorted: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=413624

[stalker145]

dont get me wrong, i like ubuntu. but until it can do basic things out of the box....eg DVD and mp3 playback. its not really appealing!

Only having experience with Windows and Linux I have to ask the question: What OS comes with DVD playback available post-install? I know Windows doesn't - I've reinstalled it enough. Everyone here knows most Linux distros don't. Can anyone say about Mac since I've only cllicked around it a couple of times...

I really wish that if people woulld say that they wish Linux was as good as <insert OS here> that the other OS would, at least, do the things that they're saying Linux can't.

And they say we wear rose-colored glasses.

[xhizors]

If and when Microsoft finally crumbles, he'll being running around like a chicken with it's head cut off.

[microdoted]

Only having experience with Windows and Linux I have to ask the question: What OS comes with DVD playback available post-install? I know Windows doesn't - I've reinstalled it enough. Everyone here knows most Linux distros don't. Can anyone say about Mac since I've only cllicked around it a couple of times...

I really wish that if people woulld say that they wish Linux was as good as <insert OS here> that the other OS would, at least, do the things that they're saying Linux can't.

And they say we wear rose-colored glasses.

yes, os x will play mp3/dvd right out of the box with no additional work. and if i remember correctly (it's been a while) so does xp sp2 and up.

i understand the need to have a small live cd. its a great benefit. however, if its going to appeal to the avg windows user, it is going to have to come with the basics. mp3/dvd/media play back is about as basic as it can get. granted, its EXTREMELY easy for packages to be added... but if we are dealing with a relatively new nix user... they may not have a clue on how to go about that.

[kamaboko]

What OS comes with DVD playback available post-install? I know Windows doesn't - I've reinstalled it enough. we wear rose-colored glasses.

My MS Vista does.

[aysiu]

My MS Vista does.
You installed Vista yourself and didn't also installed a helper application like PowerDVD or InterVideo WinDVD... or VLC?

[brnz]

Vista <version uber> has native DVD playback support now.

And I love Linux - I really really do - but my little frustrations go as such:

Being a gamer - linux is painful to get a lot of games running. Coupled with the wierd issues with Steam (purchased games missing from My Games list) Windows XP is starting to call my name again.

Sound support - this is seemingly archaic - if I want vent, wow, and xmms working at the same time - why oh why for all that is holy can I not do this? I know I'm not a *nix progger but why must this be so difficult. In windows it just works.. *poof* I can run multiple applications and get sound coming from all of them.

Wireless? This happens to be due to lack of manufacturer support more then just linux being at fault. If you get a named brand wireless or newer laptop your good to go.... older wireless cards - 50/50. Linux needs better wireless support.

Overall I love linux - my current experiment is to run it for at least 3 months full time then make a decision - to either stay or go back to Windows. Unfort for a gamer like myself Windows evil call is trying to seduce me back to the dumb side. I want to game.

Oh... and Ubuntu by far has been the most pleasant, easy, intuitive distro I've ever dealt with. And the terminal & vi rocks ;-)

[kamaboko]

You installed Vista yourself and didn't also installed a helper application like PowerDVD or InterVideo WinDVD... or VLC?

That's correct.

[Geeke]

reason I am not using Ubuntu is I have a "level one usb wireless adapter" and I cant get it to work on Ubuntu, so thats one reason I dont use it. If I could get it to work or find a wireless card that supports ubuntu I would use it. :(

[abazimi]

hello every body
I think when we want to migrate to Linux, we can't compare it with the skills that we have in windows now, because we became expert on it, so the best way is that we compare Linux with the first days that we learned computer and we worked with windows. I'm sure at the first days we could not run wireless or LAN configurations. we learned it and now either we should learn on Linux. in the other hand when you learn a second language learning the third one is easy. it's similar in oprating system too.

[liquidstate]

I don't see the problems people are having with wireless in linux, I've just changed my wireless card and both I have used have worked well, though my old USB adapter had an rt73 chipset, which meant compiling driver from source, it was very easy to compile. I installed a pci card yesterday and it worked out of the box (unlike in windows, which first required an installation, then refused to boot until I removed a phoneline modem from the other pci slot, and then there was a seond installation/setup process to go through). I've only been using linux a few weeks, so I'm no expert. But having been forced to install windows from scratch over and over again (full HDD format needed after some crashes) linux installations are not so difficult, and user friendliness seems to be at least on a par with windows. I'm building a new box in the next few weeks, windows wont touch it.

[motoperpetuo]

"Why do people feel the need to post this?"

Well, understand that he's actually doing everyone a favor by listing the reasons the product didn't work for him. Most people use Windows, so for Linux in any variety to have a shot at growth it has to appeal to a Windows-user's expectations. This guy took issue with the lack (or apparent lack) of support for wireless equipment and the installation procedure for additional software. If many other users are also turned off by these issues, it's something for the programming community to try to work on.

S.W.

i agree...people probably post things like this out of sheer frustration. i'm a windows user but i aspire to eventually use linux for most if not everything. i've always managed to get my wireless adapters working in the various flavors of linux i've tried (mainly ubuntu and puppy) but it's generally been quite a struggle, and i'm an IT pro with several years of experience. i can't imagine a total layman successfully figuring out ndiswrapper.

i would say that wireless support or at least some clear instructions on how to use ndiswrapper would be essential for any linux distro hoping to gain wide acceptance among the masses. anyway, i'm enjoying ubuntu quite a bit and often making it through most of my workdays without having to resort to using windows much.

now i'm going to continue trying to figure out how get my network printer to work on ubuntu. fun, fun...

[johntkucz]

Sorry but why do people feel the need to announce this?


I think the better question is why do people cling to people who get off the Ubuntu wagon like it's some kind of cult that frowns upon dissension! Okay, maybe it's not that bad, but it seems like there's always dozens of posters trying to offer that one final knick-knack fixit to try to keep a person on board even though nothing with their system works!

I am much more at home with Ubuntu, but I have same problems -- essentials don't work! How can that be overlooked?

[aysiu]

I think the better question is why do people cling to people who get off the Ubuntu wagon like it's some kind of cult that frowns upon dissension! Okay, maybe it's not that bad, but it seems like there's always dozens of posters trying to offer that one final knick-knack fixit to try to keep a person on board even though nothing with their system works! I agree.

I try to find a good balance between "No, please stay. We'll help you fix it. I swear we will!" and "Don't let the door hit you on the way out!" (both of which seem to be the most popular responses, for some strange reason). I take the approach of "Well, sorry it didn't work out. Maybe you'll come back later, but if Windows works for you now, stick with it. If you come back later and want to ask for help, we'll be more than happy to answer your support questions. Best of luck with whatever you do."

[regomodo]

Just tried to convert the family's PC and i nothing but pure moans and groans from everyone except my youngest sister. Tried it for almost a week and set it up with all their usual apps on the desktop but i was constantly met with questions to blatantly obvious functions (close/change window), printing, MSN messenger (boy did that **** me off). Also, their scanner isn't supported.

Tried explaining the advantages but it didn't matter. The only important thing to them is familiarity. Wish i wasn't asked to put it on the comp in the 1st place.

[usernamed]

If the project leaders don't stop by and read this thread every now and again then they're missing the best customer feedback they'll ever get.

Your customers are having the good grace to tell you why they're leaving. Messages like the original posters should be setting your priorities for the next release. If you announce a new release, promising latest versions of apps and lots of new eye candy, but people try it and can't get their internet working, do you think they'll be impressed?

You can tell them how easy apt-get is, but without an internet connection it's no use to them at all. In the majority of non-geek households I've been in, there's a laptop and wireless internet and the users eyes would glaze over if you asked them if they have an Ethernet cable. Without wireless out of the box, you've just given yourself an almost insurmountable barrier to acceptance.

Sorry if the above sounds a bit ranty, but given that Ubuntu was always supposed to focus on the human-usable aspect of computing, there's a lot still to do. The restricted drivers GUI tool for graphics drivers is a step in the right direction. Now we just need that extended for wireless cards and other hardware devices that have proprietary drivers.

For better or (more accurately) for worse, you're just not going to get all hardware manufacturers to open up and release an open source driver. Just give them a single, stable, consistent binary driver model, and let them release their own. There really shouldn't be a problem with that.

The same goes for proprietary audio/video formats, give a single consistent framework for development, let proprietary codecs coexist peacefully with the (superior IMO) free formats like FLAC.

Quality will out.

[aysiu]

For better or (more accurately) for worse, you're just not going to get all hardware manufacturers to open up and release an open source driver. Just give them a single, stable, consistent binary driver model, and let them release their own. There really shouldn't be a problem with that. Except them cooperating and actually releasing their own?

Lack of third-party support naturally stems from relative obscurity and a small desktop market share. Ubuntu is definitely on the right track. They will never, as things stand now, be able to make a fresh install work "out of the box" on any conceivable hardware configuration, no matter what they do.

There are complicated market forces at work. It isn't a practical solution to just say "Just make it work. People don't care why it doesn't work. Make it work. It shouldn't be that big a deal."

Ubuntu is trying to make things work on several fronts:
1. Pushing for open source where possible but recognizing a compromise between immediate functionality and awareness
2. Allowing for easy installation of proprietary drivers codecs where necessary
3. Working with vendors to preinstall Ubuntu (Dell, for example)

It's an uphill battle that even Mac OS X with its supposed ease of use and intuitiveness hasn't pulled off, as my wife and I experienced when trying to switch her parents over to Mac (Plug-and-play with the monitor? Nope--only in safe mode, which we had to research online to figure out how to do. Canon printer? A total no-go, as Mac uses CUPS for printing, same as Ubuntu).

Windows works with everything because everything works with Windows and the hardware manufacturers make sure everything works with Windows. If you're a wireless card manufacturer and you don't create a Windows driver, you're a business model moron. If you're a wireless card manufacturer and don't create a Linux driver, who cares except Linux users?

[johntkucz]

I agree.

I try to find a good balance between "No, please stay. We'll help you fix it. I swear we will!" and "Don't let the door hit you on the way out!" (both of which seem to be the most popular responses, for some strange reason). I take the approach of "Well, sorry it didn't work out. Maybe you'll come back later, but if Windows works for you now, stick with it. If you come back later and want to ask for help, we'll be more than happy to answer your support questions. Best of luck with whatever you do."


asyiu!!
hey, a ubuntu friend! Strange 'internet serendepitiy" too. I just was referenced your psychocats boot sequence (trying to install ubuntu and xp dual boot) in a totally different and unrelated thread!. According to your site, I'm already "Beyond the Basics" according to other ubuntu sites, I'm floundering near beginner. I don't know who's too accelerated or too "introductory" but the graphics and easy-to-follow instructiosn on your site (while they didn't solve the problem) ,definitely were reassuring!!! Cool connections, man!

About the "balance" (purpose of this thread). Yeah you TOTALLY hit the nail on the head. Those are completely the two extremes going on here (as you perfectly summed up):

1. "No, please stay. We'll help you fix it. I swear we will!" --indirectly sadistic, cult-like, anti-dissension
This (although arguable) ends up being more painful because most people "bail" (get the hell out of ubuntu and float back to windows) after slamming their head against the wall just trying to get the sound to work on their computer for the past 79 hours! Then someone says, "No way!" You should stay and put yourself through self-torture with grub, boots, alsamixers, and all kinds of fdisks! It's like don't go, you should torture yourself more!
2. "Don't let the door hit you on the way out!" -- guilt-ridden, abandonment
If response #1 to the departure was indirectly sadistically painful, this response is guilt-ridden and shameful. It has the mileiu of "Fine, just give up, cop out, loser!"

Obviously, both resposnes -- despite their popularity -- feel incredibly unhelpful, frustrating, and annoying.

You've got a good encouraging response. It's solid, but I don't even use "good lucks" because that can imply that "oh well you'll need "luck" to get out of this one!:) which, in itself, falls into the #2 maladaptive response.


Just pointing that out. I don't know what a good response would be....maybe, oh say, just agreeing with the person and then explaining why you went back to windows, or why you didn't.

I think i'm more of a emotion-connection person with computers wedged in there with this post.

That said.....I'm SO FRICKIN' PSYCHED I finally got a dual boot to work! and somehow -- not sure how it happened -- got hte grub menu to load.

anyways, Reasons why I endured all the ridiculous anguish wiht ubuntu (and still have it loaded in external hd despite no sound, no wireless, and hundreds of hours of installation time learning):
1. It's FAST. It's very clean. It's a universal OS. Windows, apple -- those OSes operate and were designed in a corporate bubble. My beliefs don't align with that corporate bubble system, for one, but the affects of that are that the OS has it's own localized nuances (this is becoming a postmodern ubuntu analysis!). That's okay, but it should be derived from somethign universal. Unix is about as universal as you can get.
I'd much rather put time into learning about details of this core OS (unix, linux) and the Ubuntu distro. of that than windows or some isolate os. Ubuntu (rhat, debian, etc.) or localized versions of that larger more widely known with MUCH more history (unix) os.
2. Windows is VERY Slow and clunky to operate. Yes, everything works on it, but menus freeze, sometimes files don't transfer; odd (spooky) stuff happens that can occasioually be annoying.
3. linux is very direct and everythign can be modified. If you're into "tinkering" linux the only solution sounds like linux because you can change EVERYTHING -- take boot sequence (you can change the boot menu, the boot order, the splash screen, colors, every feature). but a lot of those tweaks are unnecessary for typical computer tasks

On the other hand,there's this list. How has linux (ubuntu) endured:
I love ubuntu & linux for the above reasons, but that aside, how has it endured??? My posts resemble the group quorum and that mood sounds alike: very few FUNDAMENTAL hardware features (sound, hard drives, cd/dvd-rom drives, boot sequences) work with ubuntu without massive amounts of time, tinkering, learning, trouble shooting (and lots of inhibition to defenestrate your computer). Why do people not just say: "This is absurd. I paid for a laptop with sound and dvd drive. I'll just try to spend 100s of hours trying to load an OS that can't load those essential features without massive amounts of learning instead of using xp, which loads all the hardware instantly". Why don't people say that more? That's the mystery, because from the sound of it; that absurd line could be said a LOT more.

I don't know what the appeal is to everyone and why people sacrifice their time and hours to make something that is SO incredibly problematic work, but my reasons are listed above. You must prioritize it though, I'm going to be spending some time actually using an OS that works (xp), and occasionally float back to ubuntu to delve back into the exciting world of the prompt, fdisk, /etc/stab, mounts, shell, BASH and that nitty-gritty.

[johntkucz]

additionally, I'm constantly ASTONIISHED, like seriously astounded, at how lightning FAST -- incredibly efficient fast functionality (due to efficient non-cumbersome coding, no doubt) the ubuntu os is. Esp. compared to windows, where I'm sitting there 5 seconds for a sub-menu to pop out every time I open a drow-down. actually watching windows rendering in xp..pathetic! So if all hardware worked in Ubuntu (plus there's gnucash, screem, gimp, firefox, ....solid programs) I'd be with ubuntu all the way. But a few posts ago, I was ripping at it fro it's infuriating incompatibiility!!! Ubuntu definitely wins the simultaneously most devout and sincere and infuriated installer award, probably! But I still with ubuntu because I know that getting these things installed will really open up efficiency doors. with windows xp, those efficiency doors (expediency of tasks) are shot, but atleast most things work. off too tinker around in ubuntu! (you explore OS functionality with ubuntu (and to some common tasks); you do common day-to-day computer tasks in xp).

[bharani]

:lolflag: THE BEGINNING MEETS THE END SO SOON HA:popcorn:

[lsutiger]

OK, OK..I understand ppl's frustration at certain things ( like wireless ). At the same time, I hold my head in my hands saying 'WHAAAAA???!?!?'

The Reason:
Just about everything works Out of the Box with Ubuntu-Linux. No need to hunt down the right driver. After over 2 decades ( do not take that as a indicator of age ) of working with windows, I, to this day have to hunt down "good" drivers for hardware on a motherboard (one of my responsibilities at work is a system builder)! Yes, it is true...some of the drivers that come on the 'factory' cd DO NOT WORK!
On the other hand, I load Ubuntu-Linux and there is no need to install drivers for nearly anything, evah!

Remember what happens when you load windows xp/me/98/95/3.1,etc?? Nothing works without drivers ( written and supplied by the manufacturer of the hardware). I must concede that Vista does recognize a lot of hardware OOB, but not like Ubuntu.

I have done 4 test installations on various computers/desktops ( and I never checked the 'approved list'..I'd rather just 'see') and have my Ubuntu install working flawlessly on a Dell Laptop that has some of the 'bad' hardware mentioned in many posts. Working on switching my office desktop at the moment, but have to integrate it into a windows domain.

Did it take a lot of work? I would says a bit, but not a lot. And I must mention my first 'true' encounter was February of this year. Am I slightly more technically advance than then 'normal' computer user? Yes. But I believe that most ppl should and can have a working Ubuntu install with minimal effort.

As far as the MP3 and DVD playback, there are patents and licenses attached to the codecs involved. Thats why, in Win Xp or lower,, you either had to purchase the codec or a program ( such as Power DVD, etc, which installed the codec) to have DVD playback. MS already had rights to the MP3 codec. As far as I know, the Ubuntu team will not deal with those shinanigans. Somebody correct me if I am wrong on that one ( read it, not word for word, in Keir Thomas' "Beginning Ubuntu Linux")

/Rant
Hope everyone has fun Ubuntuing! If not, try different hardware.

[v604mustangjoe]

well i tried redhat linux 5 years ago, tried and tried and could not figure out how to do anything. Now i am back with ubuntu, and i am not giving up. I too have the broadcomm issue, but i am using ubuntu on my 3.0ghz HP laptop and my old 350mhz dell desktop. Right now i am using XP, and will have to keep using xp until i get the hang of linux fully.

I cannot wait till the day i can fully unload windows from my computer and use linux for everything.

I cannot wait to buy cadega and use it to play my computers games in. I hope to learn how to program and make patches for linux so others can enjoy linux.

First thing i want to do when i learn how to program is make a driver install program to help convert windows drivers to work in linux.

[bsalt]

To all those considering leaving because a lack of hardware support:

Before you revert back to Windows (aka - the dark side), go to http://launchpad.net and put in a bug that your hardware is not currently supported. In my case, I found the Linux driver for my network card on my motherboard, so I submitted that in the bug report, and by the next kernel update, the Ubuntu team had already added the driver for it.

The Ubuntu team is great at adding more hardware support - but writing about it hear is not the best way to go about it. Submit all hardware and software bugs pertaining to Ubuntu maintained hardware to http://launchpad.net.

Thanks.

[Offoffoff]

Bye! See You soon!
We will be here to support You!

[jbaerbock]

I have an HP zv6000 and it works well with Ubuntu based distros. I used Mint to get into Linux more since it has GUI tools for most common hardware problems, Envy, mintWIFI, etc... And yes it was frustrating for me too. But I like computer and learned to love Linux. I graduated myself to Kubuntu Feisty and did the upgrades and hardware troubleshooting myself. Linux is easy once you figure it out but it takes time and patience sometimes. Oh and I hated the not being able to download and install anything from anywhere with one click thing too. Then I discovered .deb files :-D.

[erfahren]

... "Oh and I hated the not being able to download and install anything from anywhere with one click thing too. Then I discovered .deb files :-D".

yeah, but being able to fire up Synaptic and install about 10 programs in one shot sure makes up for that! I got bored one night and installed a whole bunch of games. kept me occupied for awhile!

One thing I definitely don't miss with Windows is trying to do something real quick but then every program you launch insists on checking for updates. 20 minutes later and after a couple of restarts you can finally get back to what you originally set out to do (if you still remember what it was by that time, that is)!

[HermanAB]

Hmm, whenever I need to do something quick on my big company supplied locked down laptop, I plug in a USB stick and boot Puppy Linux. Sometimes I just cannot wait for all the updates and restarts required to get Windows going.

[Depressed Man]

The thing with Windows updates is you can let them download and install (well maybe download) without restarting. Whenever I'm in Windows I just let it do that. As for programs some of them can update in the background (though they require the program to restart usually). Though they can also wait for you to finish what you wanted to do.

[venik212]

To add to some of the reasons why Linux is not ready for prime time:
--poor hardware support (just try to install a scanner, a webcam or an old monitor or printer)
--Programs disappear and have to be reinstalled
--No Adobe Acrobat (not just Acrobat Reader)
--OpenOffice not really compatible with MS Office (try the OO-Presentation)
I'll stop here, since this is a short reply.
--

[g33knik]

Sorry guys and gals, I'm gave it a shot and I;m going to have to say good bye to Linux and Ubuntu. Without wireless support and an easy way to install programs, this is something that I'm not going to get. I'm a windows user and that's all there is to it.

I tried, but it just isn't going to work.

I started w/ the last vers of ubuntu, (6.something), on and IBM thnkpad. it took a day or so, but I got the wifi on it working just by coming to the Forums. (Wondeful place to get valuable info, just gotta dig). I now am running an Acer Aspire 5100 w/ a dual boot Ubuntu 7.04 and Vista. Obvious;y Vista was preinstalled. i burned the Feisty 64bit cd, installed using the dual-boot directions I had found, and the wifi connected immediately after entering my wpa key AND created a sec. key. Feisty has MUCH better support for wpa; it was less toilsome to get to work than the prior Ubuntu vers. And my wifi card is an Atheros sumin, a brand Ive never heard of. Realtechs and Intels are far mor common. Anyway, thot Id throw my 2 cents in. I am a Linux novice but like I said, you come to the forums and you'll find what you need.

[kellemes]

Sorry guys and gals, I'm gave it a shot and I;m going to have to say good bye to Linux and Ubuntu. Without wireless support and an easy way to install programs, this is something that I'm not going to get. I'm a windows user and that's all there is to it.

I tried, but it just isn't going to work.

Fair enough..
Windows is much more advanced in a couple of areas, and makes other choices, maybe the better option for you.
Come back someday and some distro will be up to your standard.

[kellemes]

I agree.

I try to find a good balance between "No, please stay. We'll help you fix it. I swear we will!" and "Don't let the door hit you on the way out!" (both of which seem to be the most popular responses, for some strange reason). I take the approach of "Well, sorry it didn't work out. Maybe you'll come back later, but if Windows works for you now, stick with it. If you come back later and want to ask for help, we'll be more than happy to answer your support questions. Best of luck with whatever you do."

Well, that's exactly my view on this..

[punkybouy]

I disagree. Linux runs on more hardware than Windows. If you install Automatix it can install Adobe Acrobat Reader for you AND Open Office can create Acrobat documents. Open Office will save files in MS format but maybe we should turn it around: MS Office does not support an OPEN SOURCE FORMAT. After 16 months of using Ubuntu and 12 years of various other UNIX and Linux variants I have yet to see a program disappear.
What I do see is a lot of people installing Linux on old/marginal hardware, having problems and then blaming the OS.

[ukripper]

To add to some of the reasons why Linux is not ready for prime time:
--poor hardware support (just try to install a scanner, a webcam or an old monitor or printer)
--Programs disappear and have to be reinstalled
--No Adobe Acrobat (not just Acrobat Reader)
--OpenOffice not really compatible with MS Office (try the OO-Presentation)
I'll stop here, since this is a short reply.
--

Really makes me laugh :lolflag:

[mister harbies]

Sorry guys and gals, I'm gave it a shot and I;m going to have to say good bye to Linux and Ubuntu. Without wireless support and an easy way to install programs, this is something that I'm not going to get. I'm a windows user and that's all there is to it.

I tried, but it just isn't going to work.

Sorry guys and gals, I'm gave it a shot and I;m going to have to say good bye to Microsoft and Windows. With rampant virii, spyware, malware and an easy way to corrupt your registry, this is something that I'm not going to put up with. I'm a ubuntu user and that's all there is to it.

I tried, but it just isn't going to work. And besides Microsoft rips you off and they don't care.

[jbaerbock]

Sorry guys and gals, I'm gave it a shot and I;m going to have to say good bye to Microsoft and Windows. With rampant virii, spyware, malware and an easy way to corrupt your registry, this is something that I'm not going to put up with. I'm a ubuntu user and that's all there is to it.

I tried, but it just isn't going to work. And besides Microsoft rips you off and they don't care.

And really who wouldn't want to pay hundreds of dollars for a virus ridden spyware filled OS?

[tashmooclam]

You can't just please some people.
My two cents.
Openoffice is fantastic, and Openoffice can save as pdf. You can use Google docs/firefox/openoffice and create, share and edit documents and spreadsheets. Very cool.
I had no problem using my printer. It is an Epson Stylus photo 960. It was in the Ubuntu printer database, and boom! It works. The difficult thing is finding ink cartridges for my printer.
I never have tried GIMP, but I like Picasa just fine, so I would not be missing photoshop anyway.
Games?! Don't they make boxes just for that? I have never played a game on a computer.
My complaint was that I was surprised that there were a few things I needed to do after Ubuntu was installed. The installation itself was quick and painless.
My other complaint was the way things sometimes appear, but I'll keep at the fix of that. I see some blurry stuff on firefox pages sometimes.
I really found this FAQ informative, I think it should be re-named just "Ubuntu FAQ".
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CriticismFAQ
Overall, I am satisfied. And I could never go back to windows. Why go and make this computer slower, more annoying,less secure, and less intuitive?

[bme]

I started linux in knoppix 3 when it was included in a local magazine cd. I wanted to try something new. Was I "hooked" to linux? Not really as linux still has a lot to do in order to sort of catch up in terms of user friendliness....
I still don't understand why so many negative comments about windows or microsoft are being posted...Microsoft is a business while linux is not. If microsoft is that bad then why is windows still the preferred OS of the majority? Look at MacOS. It tried but it never went near windows as far as acceptance is concerned.
Some will say give somebody a PC with linux preinstalled and he/she will not complain. I doubt it that in the course of using linux he/she will not have any issue. I have experienced this that there will come a time that something will no longer work that used to work in windows.
Example for me is my video capture cable(not linux supported) and dual monitoring which takes a lot of coding to configure(automatically configured in windows).
Before I get flamed let me get to what I want to say regards this post about people living linux/ubuntu. Majority get a pc in order to use it for whatever they want. Soem use it for programming linux so in that case no problem. But some also use it to capture video or make presentations and if these functions are not working in linux/ubuntu then what do you expect than people going back to the "hated" OS which works for them.
You should not expect people to go around and look for a cable that is linux compatible or code the OS to make this and that function work.
I even encountered a post here that says that "oh ubuntu/linux did not work for you? I don't don't care it works for me anyway".
In the days of knoppix 3 there was almost no "plug and play" in linux-I mean when you plug a mouse it will not work unless you do some coding with the config file. Now with ubuntu I can plug or unplug a mouse to my hearts content and it will get detected,no coding needed.
Perhaps there will come a time when linux/ubuntu will be fully "plug and play" I'm sure....
But then what will windows be when that time comes?....

[jbaerbock]

I use Kubuntu and everything i have works fine with Linux. Must realize that linux has more support ootb than windoze. Windoze fresh install doesnt work with half my hardware.

[dmn_clown]

If you install Automatix it can install Adobe Acrobat Reader for you AND Open Office can create Acrobat documents.

You left out that if you install and use Automatix you take a very great risk of severely hosing your system (http://mjg59.livejournal.com/77440.html), no matter how careful you are with it.

Acrobat reader is not Acrobat, please don't pretend that it is. If you've ever used the full version of Acrobat, you would know the difference.

As to the person leaving, use whatever OS meets your needs, that is what FOSS is supposed to be about, freedom. That includes the freedom to use proprietary software if FOSS doesn't meet your needs.

[cmat]

Perhaps there will come a time when linux/ubuntu will be fully "plug and play" I'm sure....
But then what will windows be when that time comes?....

That was the biggest hook when it comes to Ubuntu for me. Linux has not perfected that until recently. Taken for granted things in Microsoft Windows were missing in Linux based OSs. Like networking in Windows XP was fantastic, plug and play with devices like external USB drives and such was pretty good. However you were unable to plug in a mouse or keyboard after boot time in the PS/2 port. It's now at the point that Linux has better PnP support than Windows does. Printers are automatically detected without and need for a driver CD even some cheap ones that were bought at a flea market. PS/2 ports can be unplugged and replugged without any trouble (not sure if this was fixed in Vista, going to try it out). My wireless PCIMA card worked out of the box when I plugged it in, connected directly to my network after I was prompted for my password. These things would be laughable just 4 years ago. Linux and Ubuntu is growing exponentially, it's features, supported hardware and portability is also growing at that rate. Not something to be taken lightly. I use to be the guy saying Linux isn't going anywhere now I want to go back in time and punch myself for not adopting it sooner.

[dptxp]

Actually ive been going Ubuntu non stop since my last post in this thread. My views on linux has changed since i got compiz fusion going.

Im definitely done with Windows.


You were leaving because you did not find proper programs equivalent to Windows (Check Original Post).
Now you are sticking to Ubuntu because you can run some eye candy.

Makes a lot of sense.:confused:

[chicoicho]

For my Ubuntu Gnome is the best choice.I love Ubuntu.He is always FREE and i love freedom. http://store4.data.bg/celfone/ubi%20logo%20boy.jpg

[grifter13]

Please allow me to share some experiences I've had with Ubuntu that have reaffirmed my opinion that wondows is a relic and if of no future use.

I work as an ASIC hardware engineer and most of our tools demands large amount of computer resource and near zero downtime. And we access the server farm via our laptop terminals. So let me present my argument in two perspectives:

- Server
. We would never consider running any design tools on a windows box, the cost of IT maintenance is simply too high.
. Reliability(especially with Unbuntu distro), with over 256 users at any given time, the server just keeps ticking.
. Easy deployment, gone is the old days where it take months to bring a linux server into production level. Now its minuets (and dare I say seconds,,, no I'm exaggerating).

- Desktop
. With any new computer deployed to an engineer, Windows XP is standard. However within second, we would either rip it out and put in Ubuntu (some Fedora), or create a partition for Ubuntu.
. Productivity is very high and very cost effective, as PDF can be created printed etc without spending licensing fee to Adobe.
. This one is more a personal taste, I find using the mouse very clumbersome, using a linux distro like Ubuntu, I can do 95% of my work without even touching the mouse.
. Finally, I get to customize my workstation to anyway I want. I know, its not really an argument but working 8-10hr days, you get your thrill where ever you can.

Well theres my 5min of fame, I am sadden to hear that Ubuntu or any linux flavour was not able to help some of us out. As I truly do believe linux (and Ubuntu) is the way to our future computing.

Grifter13

<SIM> When in doubt, cut it out
<SIM> 0x2BAD2BAD, 0XDEADBEEF

[jbaerbock]

You left out that if you install and use Automatix you take a very great risk of severely hosing your system (http://mjg59.livejournal.com/77440.html), no matter how careful you are with it.

Acrobat reader is not Acrobat, please don't pretend that it is. If you've ever used the full version of Acrobat, you would know the difference.

As to the person leaving, use whatever OS meets your needs, that is what FOSS is supposed to be about, freedom. That includes the freedom to use proprietary software if FOSS doesn't meet your needs.

I have yet to hear of Automatix hosing a system how would it do than anyway? It is basically an installer and get the same packages as adept just easier format for finding the codecs and a few other things Mint has natively. I have used automatix many times and never once been hosed! Keep hearing this hosed by automatix line but never hear of it really happening just rumors.

[kellemes]

I have yet to hear of Automatix hosing a system how would it do than anyway? It is basically an installer and get the same packages as adept just easier format for finding the codecs and a few other things Mint has natively. I have used automatix many times and never once been hosed! Keep hearing this hosed by automatix line but never hear of it really happening just rumors.

Maybe you should read some articles and actually use your brain to find out..

[butcher99]

Linux is just not ready for main stream yet. It will never get all those windows users, and I don't care how much better it is than windows, until it becomes as easy to install and maintain as windows is.

sudo? what is the windows equivalent? Your grandma just is not ever going to switch.

I tried Linux (a couple versions) a few years ago and I must say that the steps it has taken astound me, especially in speed and how far it has come in ease of use. But, the few things that are cause you to log in and use a script or figure it out manually just will continue to slow down acceptance.
I think I will continue to use Linux as my main OS but I don't think I can get rid of Windows.

[butcher99]

Maybe you should read some articles and actually use your brain to find out..


And these are the types of posts that make me want to scream.
We are not to post RTFM posts but it is ok to say, it is there in the stickys or you could just do a search and find it yourself.. Why not just post RTFM?

OR, you could just ignore the question if you do not want to answer, or you could just do the search and then point out that by searching for, whatever the search was, you found this link.

Almost every question asked has the reply "use the search function" or its equivalent somewhere in the thread.

Yes, it is frustrating to see the same question over and over. Just ignore them.

jim

[jbaerbock]

Maybe you should read some articles and actually use your brain to find out..

Lol I have and haven't found as many as people seem to think there are. And temper temper buddy lol we're all friends here. Most of the errors I have seen reported are due to user error not program error.

[VAsHachiRoku]

I just switched this week, and I'm suprised I've only ran into a few small bumps in the road. Mainly the ATI driver hell that I see a lot of people go through. Minus that I just kept plugging away at it until I figured it out either the hardway or easy way.

Case and Point, just duel boot your system, that is what I plan to do, but I will continue to spend 95% of me time in Ubuntu until I am a pro!

Right now all my roommates are like WOW that cube is so cool, how did you get that to work, thats linux etc etc!

[jbaerbock]

Yeah know what ya mean. I dual boot but normaly I use Linux, just love the penguin.

[Ryoushi19]

This person is obviously not very experienced.. Number 1, Ubuntu has wireless support. Period. Number 2, Ubuntu has an easy way to install programs. It's called synaptic. It's probably best that "geniuses like you" keep to your dying breed OS, Windows, for all eternity.

[jbaerbock]

Basicaly they are just too lazy to do any remote amount of research.

[ukripper]

Basicaly they are just too lazy to do any remote amount of research.

So true!

[Johnathon]

He left *a long* time ago. Don't keep bashing him for something that happened a long time ago.

Also, being told RTFM, in ANY FORM is about the worst thing you could ever do to a newbie.

[phenest]

I just switched this week, and I'm suprised I've only ran into a few small bumps in the road. Mainly the ATI driver hell that I see a lot of people go through. Minus that I just kept plugging away at it until I figured it out either the hardway or easy way.

Case and Point, just duel boot your system, that is what I plan to do, but I will continue to spend 95% of me time in Ubuntu until I am a pro!

Right now all my roommates are like WOW that cube is so cool, how did you get that to work, thats linux etc etc!

Hats off to you for being determined to learn. I admire that. In contrast, the OP only "gave it a shot". It's a shame that so many people continue with Windoze because it's easy. It's not because they know Windoze, because if they did, they would not use it (lack of security, viruses, etc).
Linux is just not ready for main stream yet
Please refer to it as Ubuntu. And yes, Ubuntu IS ready for the mainstream. It does more than Windoze "out of the box".
sudo? what is the windows equivalent? Your grandma just is not ever going to switch.
What does "sudo" have to do with anything? What would your grandma need to use it for?
I tried Linux (a couple versions) a few years ago and I must say that the steps it has taken astound me, especially in speed and how far it has come in ease of use. But, the few things that are cause you to log in and use a script or figure it out manually just will continue to slow down acceptance.
You can have an auto login if you prefer. Perhaps you didn't research it that far. Scripts? I bet there has been many a time when a Windoze user has been expected to type something at the command prompt or use the Run dialog. It's not about acceptance. I bet there's plenty of Windoze users who dislike Windoze but do not realise there is an alternative that will work fine on their existing computer.
I think I will continue to use Linux as my main OS but I don't think I can get rid of Windows.
Linux is NOT an OS. Ubuntu is an OS.
He left *a long* time ago. Don't keep bashing him for something that happened a long time ago.
I agree. But have they come back?


Yep. I think the OP started this thread to get it off their chest. I feel better too now.:)

[mdsmedia]

MORE powerful? You gotta be kidding! ;)

Not by a long shot. If you do basic stuff, GIMP is adequate, but otherwise... I am personally importing RAW images from my expensive camera, and the entire process is a nightmare in GIMP (clumsy). The quality of the output is much better in Photoshop, especially if you have to print your stuff professionally.

InkScape is far away from Adobe Illustrator, but is a very good program for what it does. Very good for editing notes fx.

Don't underestimate the quality of the professional software for Windows and Mac. I like playing around with Linux a lot, but the software is disappointing and simply cannot assist me in my work.

I think free Linux software can be good for schools, for teaching of basic and also some advanced techniques, but for real professionals these programs can only replace Windows shareware software.

The thing I do not understand about Linux is why these programs don't evolve into very professional but free programs? I see TONS of software for Linux, but it is mostly small programs made by (a few) individuals. I see tons of programs that do the same, tons of instant messenger but no real voice and video support. No match for MSN or Yahoo Messenger.

If more people started working on plug-ins for GIMP that worked as good as the features in Photoshop, things would look better. More and many volunteers for features for Scribus, GIMP, Inkscape and NVU; as it is these programs evolve slooooowly.

My personal goal was to check out whether Linux could replace Windows. No way. It could if more resources were put into fewer programs and distributions. I have choice, but there is not much I can really use.

In short: Linux world! Make some priorities, concentrate on them and gain market shares.I have very...VERY little to do with any graphics software., but I have to ask the question. WHY does Pixar use Linux to create their movies if Linux is so lacking in graphical software?

[parrisjoeyey]

Why do people think Ubuntu doesn't have wireless support, it is one of the first things that is picked up on my computer.

[ukripper]

Why do people think Ubuntu doesn't have wireless support, it is one of the first things that is picked up on my computer.

Because of ignorance I guess!

[aysiu]

Why do people think Ubuntu doesn't have wireless support, it is one of the first things that is picked up on my computer.
Because it doesn't have wireless support... for certain wireless cards. And now the Ubuntu CD doesn't even include ndiswrapper.

[Wynne G Oldman]

I think the reason why Ubuntu has to be the most popular version of Linux yet is mainly because of it's relative ease of installation, and, most importantly, you can do far more WITHOUT using terminal, than you can with any other version. The easier it becomes to use, the more people will use it. Simple as that. I think that some people on this forum should try to understand that the main goals of any operating system is ease of use, functionality, reliabililty and security. We should listen hard to peoples reasons for leaving, if we are to learn how to improve our operating system, and try not to pour scorn on those who "just can't be bothered to learn". Why should they have to. Most things you do in an operating system should be self explanatory.

[jbaerbock]

Because it doesn't have wireless support... for certain wireless cards. And now the Ubuntu CD doesn't even include ndiswrapper.

True but it takes about 5 seconds to download the gui version of ndiswrapper and then do 5 minutes of research, oh no not research lol, to learn how to blacklist something. None of those steps use the terminal, at least not in Kubuntu.

[butcher99]

You all need to do a fresh install. Now, when you do a fresh install and need to do anything, and I mean anything, go to the forums and do a search for what you need. You are not allowed to deviate from what you find, or pick and choose because what you find will not work with what you have (from prior knowledge) but just install stuff blindly using cut and paste.

You will find first off that you will find 5 or 10 solutions to every problem and they don't all work, but one probably will, or as I found, clicking the add install found the problem and fixed it for me after 2 or 3 sudo attempts that did not work.

I can tell you from new Linux user standpoint that windows is easy. Linux is tough. Some people just cannot take the time or do not want to take the time to tough out the learning curve on Ubuntu. It is there, and it is steep.

I know that with windows Vista (64) (just installed that as well) it picked up all my hardware and setup the system for me 100%. Ubuntu got 90%. Since I am very green to Ubuntu that 10% or maybe even 3% actually is tough to get going.

Is it fast slick etc like everyone says? you bet. Even better than I expected. Is it ready to take over from windows? Not quite but much better than the last time I tried it.

[jbaerbock]

Hehe I laugh at people who try Ubuntu on one laptop and claim windows has better hardware support. Try it on multiple computers and see which OS has the better OOTB hardware support. Personaly I have tried fresh installs of Ubuntu and Windows on a few computers and Ubuntu picked up much more of the hardware OOTB than windows did. The only thing that did not work OOTB on Ubuntu was wireless and ATI graphics card. ATI did work just not upto what it should. But guess what neither worked in Windows XP fresh install either. So in Ubuntu I run a GUI called Envy for ATI card and use a gui version of ndiswrapper to get wireless going. With windows I must search the manufacuturs website for software and drivers (and these are never easy to find of course). So you tell me which is more compatible with the broadest range of hardware OOTB? Only dicernable difference I have found between the two OSs is the support for gaming. Windows has a larger market so more games are made exclusively for it, though this is changing. Gaming is the ONLY reason I keep windows on my laptop.

Oh and why the hell would anyone blindly follow intructions? That just isn't smart lol.

[rodpck]

hi,

i think there's a lot of people who feel really frustrated (including myself sometimes) since i like ubuntu so much but can't solve the problems so easily (like pressing ctrl+alt+del)
i'm having serious issues with beryl, it's having my system unstable and freezes a lot, makes me upset but i believe there is a solution to every problem. the great part is that the ubuntu society is very helpful everytime there is a problem. good luck with your return to windows.

[jbaerbock]

One thing to understand about Beryl is that it is still technicaly a Beta program. In other words it is not going to be bug free. Beryl is also an extra feature not something required to make Ubuntu work. I use Kubuntu and while I did get Compiz Fusion working (Alpha even) I found that my computer ran better and I liked just normal KDE better.

[ukripper]

Hehe I laugh at people who try Ubuntu on one laptop and claim windows has better hardware support. .

Agree 100% to you mate!!:)