Dell Cancels Complete Care for Ubuntu

[CaptainTux]

On Friday, my laptop died. It was an Acer. The screen was damaged. Replacement cost of cracked screen is more than halfway to the cost of a new laptop. So I decide I will support the new Ubuntu Dell Laptops.

I go online to Dell's Website and go to the Ubuntu page. I choose the E1505n. I upgrade to a GB of Ram, I get the Nvidia 256 MB graphics card, I get the DVD burner optical drive. So far so good. I am happy with the default processor and the screen. Now, another driving factor is that Dell has the nifty cool complete care (tm) plan. With this bad boy, a random brick can fly through the air, hit my laptop, shatter it to threads, and Dell will cover it. Think of it more as an insurance plan than a service plan. I have a friend with 3 kids who has had to take advantage of it not once, but twice. Both times Dell took care of them no questions asked. Now, the first time the Dell laptop had XP on it...the second time..gentoo. Still, no problems here.

So, I decide to get it....just in case I get burned twice.

On June 2, I get an email telling me my order has been acknowledged and I will get another email shortly giving me a order number (I also paid for next day shipping). Well, the rest of June 2 and all of June 3 goes by. No new email. I check my spam folder...nada...just the usual assortment of male enhancement and refi deals. So on June 4 I call Dell. They can see no order...they can see they debited my account...but no order. Hmmm...confusing. Very sorry, sir. Let me talk to my supervisor, please hold. She has no explanation for the lost order, but she will reprocess the order and I will get my next day shipping for free since I lost time. YAY!

But wait! When we "build" my Dell, there is no longer a Complete Care (tm) plan for Ubuntu. She puts me on hold. She find out that my order was bumped out since they changed the policy on offering Complete Care (tm) on Ubuntu Dells. Why? She puts me on hold. Now comes the fun.

"Sir, Ubuntu is a third party software and applications come from sources not from Dell."

"Vista is a product of Dell?"

"No sir, but we have a relationship with MS."

"So you do not have a relationship with Canonical, the commercial company that sponsors Ubuntu?"

"Hold.........Yes we do, but the software for other things comes from third parties."

"So what if I buy a game for a Vista laptop from Best Buy? As that is a third party software..does that invalidate a Complete Care (tm) policy?"

"No, sir."

"What if I download an update from Microsoft to keep my Vista Current, how does that differ from an update from Ubuntu other than the fact the Ubuntu update actually helps my system?"

"I do not know sir. See, sir, Linux comes from all over the place and as such cannot be supported."

"I believe Redhat and even Microsoft differ with that opinion. I am not looking for support, that is another option I can click on another screen in your website. I am looking for protection from bricks. The laws of physics do not differ from one OS to the other...do they?"

"No Sir."

"Talking to your superior will not help my cause, do you have the phone number and email address of an executive do you?"

She gave it to me. I wrote an email. I expressed my concerns politely and professionally 5 hours ago and am awaiting a response.

Just be warned, they tend to change the deal, kill your order, and keep your money with no order on file making it difficult for the CSR to track the debit on your credit card account.

Cheers
Patrick L Green

[loserboy]

well thats crappy, let us know how it turns out... I decided not to get the complete care, because I didnt want to spend a bunch for the long term one.... and I figured I could keep it safe enough for 1 year so there wasnt any point in that.

[jrusso2]

It seems Dell is anxious to kill off this whole Linux thing quickly. There is no reason to remove a hardware warranty due to software.

All of captain tux's arguments are valid.

This in addition to Dell,
Not promoting this properly.
Providing windows setup posters
Windows based handbooks
Lack of DVD decryption and codecs
Lack of proper driver for nvidia cards
This means Dell is not doing this right and will soon pull out and say Linux is a failure?

[CaptainTux]

well thats crappy, let us know how it turns out...

I will. I left the executive's name and email addy out of this awaiting a response from him (we will see if that happens, not holding my breath). I am giving him 24 hours before I escalate it to a phone call and then take other measures.

I have used laptops since 1998 and never broke one. This time...I did it good and it had to be the screen. The complete care includes screen which is a level of coverage you do not get every day since the screen is the most costly replacement part. This is not about the OS..this is about hardware protection. I not only want an official explanation in writing, but I want this policy reconsidered. There will never be quality migration if it does not get equal treatment.

As far as this CSR. She was nice and polite, but she was not trained for this roll out. I once put together a Linux retail channel training guide to be used for a national retailer when they rolled Linux systems on their sales floor. Not all of the employees were given the comprehensive training, but there was always one guy or gal on the floor. Though the retailer does not offer pre installed Linux systems anymore, it was a darn fine training guide. ;)

[godd4242]

I really don't understand this one myself.

Definitely keep everyone updated on this whole business.

[godd4242]

It seems Dell is anxious to kill off this whole Linux thing quickly. There is no reason to remove a hardware warranty due to software.

All of captain tux's arguments are valid.

This in addition to Dell,
Not promoting this properly.
Providing windows setup posters
Windows based handbooks
Lack of DVD decryption and codecs
Lack of proper driver for nvidia cards
This means Dell is not doing this right and will soon pull out and say Linux is a failure?

That looks like what will happen.

They're really doing a piss poor amateur job of this whole deal you know.

[CaptainTux]

It seems Dell is anxious to kill off this whole Linux thing quickly. There is no reason to remove a hardware warranty due to software.

All of captain tux's arguments are valid.

This in addition to Dell,
Not promoting this properly.
Providing windows setup posters
Windows based handbooks
Lack of DVD decryption and codecs
Lack of proper driver for nvidia cards
This means Dell is not doing this right and will soon pull out and say Linux is a failure?

That is unfortunate. They were not going to uproot the MS market share, but they have an opportunity to make this a profitable venture for them granting them yet another revenue stream. Look, when I think of Dell, I do not think camcorder or tv, but they sell them...why? More revenue from other sources. I am sure it took time to get people to buy Dell TV's, but doggone it, I can get hardware support for it in case I see the Beatles on TV and pull an Elvis.

I am willing to pay over $200 extra to protect my laptop screen from something not likely to happen to me again...they are turning down my money? This protection plan (insurance plan in my book) is a huge revenue stream for them. I am at a loss.

[loserboy]

I'm gonna save my comments about Dell till we really know whats going on, I think the stuff you guys are saying is valid, but still it's a little early to judge.

We all know Dell's priority is not necessarily to see linux succeed, but to make money off the "do what customers want" campaign. I'm just not ready to say dell is doing it poorly on purpose, I still think how well they support it is going to be based on popularity, much of it is based on risk management and cost/benefit ratios.

anyway I guess we shall see, I did my part, now it's their turn right?

[loserboy]

hey can anyone log into their order status at dell to see the specs? mine says temporarily down

[CaptainTux]

hey can anyone log into their order status at dell to see the specs? mine says temporarily down

I can see the specs. I agree with you. I am not willing to say they are intentionally killing the Ubuntu plan. But my experience so far is bothersome. I am hoping I get response from the executive soon before I escalate the matter.

Before I decided being a dad was more important to me than the almighty dollar, I used to be a VP of Sales and Marketing for a Telco. I have also owned a computer store, a consultancy company, a comic book shop, and an insurance agency. 2 of these were actually running in the black. ;)

I am ready to dance with Dell until I get an answer and will even go for hoping to get them to reconsider this change in policy.

[SoulinEther]

Grill them in every way possible. Don't let them spend 5 minutes not feeling the heat; they are trying to pull a "do what the customers want so they'll pay us the big bucks" campaign? Well if the customer wants an insurance plan and they aren't offering it simply because it is on a laptop with an operating system that the people wanted... Dell doesn't seem to be sticking to this "Popular demand" crap.

[mojobromley]

I for one am on a old 8200 that runs well but getting old, When it's laptop time again ( Rather build a desktop) system 76 ( think thats the name?) will get my green not dell if this is the way they go. I will not use vista, No DRM for me please! Dell needs to have a turn key system for Ubuntu (or any Linux as the stupid US laws permit hell charge me minor fees for codecs!) Where was I ... Oh we need tun key systems because thats what we pay Dell for!!! I for one am annoyed at dells past windows systems with all the crap AOL etc..... Thats why I baught a MAC last time around and would again....
Come on Dell I am watching with full pockets!!!!

[Skamikaze]

hmmmm...does this smell like MS to anyone? As someone said above, why drop a hardware warranty for software? It seems to me that this plays on the fear of potential buyers, especially people not sure if they wish to shift away from MS, and directs them right back where they are comfortable/safe and that's MS. I don't like it. Perhaps this is more MS strong-arming.

I ordered my 1505n 2 weeks ago and am tracking it now, it should be here on 6/7. My first Linux machine, I am very excited. I did not order the extra warranty, so this does not affect me, but it does concern me regarding business practices and the prevalence of Linux. I was excited to see a large company such as Dell, start shipping with Linux and had hoped this would entice more users to Linux. Unfortunately, now it appears that Dell does not wish to stand behind their product.

The only other thing I can think of, is perhaps sales were not very high and Dell decided that rather than deal with calls regarding software (inevitably, people will call Dell with problems regarding software, which will cost Dell money), it is more cost effective to drop the extended plans and deal with a few grumbling customers.

[sloggerkhan]

I bet after a week or so of wrangling they give you the extra protection and leave it dropped from future orders.

[Sunflower1970]

hmmmm...does this smell like MS to anyone? As someone said above, why drop a hardware warranty for software? It seems to me that this plays on the fear of potential buyers, especially people not sure if they wish to shift away from MS, and directs them right back where they are comfortable/safe and that's MS. I don't like it. Perhaps this is more MS strong-arming.

There's a rumour going around on ideastorm and the Linux forum that MS did have a hand in Dell dropping the extended warranty. Hope that's all it is...a rumour and doesn't hold any water. There has to be a good explanation about it..

[CaptainTux]

From Dells PDF on what is and is not covered under the complete care (tm) program.

Can someone tell me how an OS or third party software can contribute to this????

Cause of Failure Resolution Description
Liquid spilled on or in unit Repaired or unit replaced
Drops, falls, and other collisions Repaired or unit replaced
Electrical surge Repaired or unit replaced
Damaged or broken LCD due to a drop or fall Repaired
Accidental breakage (multiple pieces) Repaired or unit replaced

Damage caused by intentional acts, fire, theft or loss, is not covered under CompleteCare

Some examples of damage that would NOT be covered are:

Cause of Failure Resolution Description
Damaged in a fire Not covered — insurance coverage
Intentional damage (hammer marks) Not covered — user responsible
Stolen unit Not covered — insurance coverage
Normal wear (does not affect system performance) Not covered
Consumables (batteries, bulbs) Not covered

If an incident occurs, call the Dell technical support line to report the problem. After answering a series of questions, Dell can initiate the appropriate repair or replacement services, which may include shipment of replacement parts, shipment of the damaged product to a Dell repair facility, or a whole unit exchange procedure.

[CaptainTux]

There's a rumour going around on ideastorm and the Linux forum that MS did have a hand in Dell dropping the extended warranty. Hope that's all it is...a rumour and doesn't hold any water. There has to be a good explanation about it..
Got a linky? :D

[CaptainTux]

http://vista.blorge.com/2007/06/04/dell-drops-extended-warranties-on-ubuntu-systems/

[loserboy]

lol at first I wasn't bothered but the more I think about this the more I'd really like to hear their explanation.



was that the entire disclaimer about complete care?...

lets see.... Ubuntu spins up the fans until it flies into the air, hits a glass of water then falls in the puddle causing an electrical surge, breaking the lcd and then explodes into many pieces :)

[CaptainTux]

I bet after a week or so of wrangling they give you the extra protection and leave it dropped from future orders.

That would be peachy keen for me. I am Machiavellian by nature. However, when it comes to Linux and Open Source, I am a big believer in community. I will push for them to re introduce this to Dell customers until they file a restraining order or stop selling Linux. I prefer neither event happen, but I have been to jail for less noble causes in my youth. ;)

[CaptainTux]

lol at first I wasn't bothered but the more I think about this the more I'd really like to hear their explanation.



was that the entire disclaimer about complete care?...

lets see.... Ubuntu spins up the fans until it flies into the air, hits a glass of water then falls in the puddle causing an electrical surge, breaking the lcd and then explodes into many pieces :)
What they told me was that they cannot offer complete care due to the third party software nature of Ubuntu. There is a mythbusters episode in this somewhere.

[loserboy]

ya know whats strange, with my business and other people's that I know, selling an extended warranty is always a big money maker anyway, there's people that the whole point of there business is to sell extened warranties on cars/boats/tractors and they make a killing, then you can also look at insurance companies but I guess thats not really the same.

[mifi]

It seems Dell is anxious to kill off this whole Linux thing quickly. There is no reason to remove a hardware warranty due to software.

There has been a story in the press here, a couple of months ago, of HP doing the exact same thing on their laptops. Outrageous!
If it went to court, it would probably be overturned.

m

[mifi]

From Dells PDF on what is and is not covered under the complete care (tm) program.

Can someone tell me how an OS or third party software can contribute to this????
As far as the liquid goes.... have you had a look at Compiz with the water plugin :D

(sorry, couldn't resist, no sensible contribution to give at this time)

m

[mifi]

I am really interested in the results of this battle.

However, in the meantime, I can buy practically the same insurance from a normal insurance company for something between 1.2 and 1.5 % of purchase price. For a $1000 laptop this would be between $12 and $15 a year. Worst case: you insure it for $15 and 3 years -> $45.

The only difference is that if something happens to it, you will get money instead of a machine.
Check with your insurance agent for how long you will get the purchase price refunded and which events are covered. Overhere purchase price will be refunded until the value drops below 40% of purchase price, which generaly is after 2 or 2.5 years. After that is day value. Your situation might be different. Check conditions before you buy.

All in all a good alternative?

m

[mifi]

On a different note:

Whether the rumours are true or not: I can imagine the relationship between Dell and MS being under threat. I can image that MS (subtly?) convinced Dell to withdraw complete support programs for their Ubuntu offerings. I can imagine Dell cannot afford to loose their deal with MS.

We need big companies like Dell to change the attitude of buyers and MS. This is a battle that has to be fought. It will most likely look like a game of chess for a couple of years.

Let's support Dell in their battle, regardless of what you might think about the quality of their products and service.
You do not have to buy their products, but let's not bash them because the world is not perfect (yet ;)).

If we want the software world to open up, manufacturers (of PC's, components and software) must be comfortable with supporting Linux without feeling threatened (too much) by MS. Somebody has to start confronting the overpowering market force of MS. I am glad Dell took the intiative.

mifi

[TimelessRogue]

Hmmm ... my two-cents worth would be to continue to pursue the Dell situation, if only to get a final answer and to impress the point to them that there are a goodly number of us out here who are waiting for a major manufacturer to take the leap to support us.

On the other hand, this is an opportunity for us, as Ubuntu consumers and growing to be a larger share of the market, to make a statement as to who WE support ... that being those companies who DO fully support options other than Winlose. We can do this by 1) expressing our frustrations and dissatisfaction to companies like Dell who seem to be knuckling under to pressure from MS and 2) simply take our business ... and our pocketbooks ... elsewhere and fully give our support to companies who are willing to take that step into Linuxland. And let them know just why we are doing so. Needless to say, this should apply to all hardware and software companies (graphics, sound, wireless, etc) who refuse to support open-source.

Coincidently, I have been considering upgrading my old (very old) HP n5000 laptop and was glad to hear of Dell's venture into supporting an open-source OS. Needless to say, I will be seriously re-evaluating my choices when it actually comes time to lay down the money ... if I'm gonna be on my own, I will at least have the satisfaction of knowing from the get-go just what kind of support I can expect.

Good luck ...

[magicfab]

I have forwarded this internally at Canonical, see an identical thread including my comment here:
http://www.salmar.com/pipermail/wftl-lug/2007-June/016442.html

[mifi]

We can do this by 1) expressing our frustrations and dissatisfaction to companies like Dell who seem to be knuckling under to pressure from MS and 2) simply take our business ... and our pocketbooks ... elsewhere and fully give our support to companies who are willing to take that step into Linuxland. And let them know just why we are doing so. Needless to say, this should apply to all hardware and software companies (graphics, sound, wireless, etc) who refuse to support open-source.
Any major manufacturer will have a suffiently large interest in being friends with MS to knuckle under the pressure. Except perhaps IBM. So the companies you do business with have to be small enough to not be a threat to MS. This is a certain way of keeping Linux small and marginal. It can only grow if large companies support it, but we will be seeing some knuckling.

Coincidently, I have been considering upgrading my old (very old) HP n5000 laptop and was glad to hear of Dell's venture into supporting an open-source OS. Needless to say, I will be seriously re-evaluating my choices when it actually comes time to lay down the money ....
Make sure that, whatever you buy, you will not loose guaratee because you run Ubuntu.
cheers.
mifi

[CaptainTux]

I have forwarded this internally at Canonical, see an identical thread including my comment here:
http://www.salmar.com/pipermail/wftl-lug/2007-June/016442.html

Identical because it is me, Fabian. ;)

[CaptainTux]

We need big companies like Dell to change the attitude of buyers and MS. This is a battle that has to be fought. It will most likely look like a game of chess for a couple of years.

Let's support Dell in their battle, regardless of what you might think about the quality of their products and service.
You do not have to buy their products, but let's not bash them because the world is not perfect (yet ;)).
Mifi, before I continue, your thoughts regarding calling my P&C insurer for some extra insurance is brilliant. I need to respectfully disagree with you on a few points here. We do not need Dell, but it helps to have them with us . Linux has grown exponentially since it's creation. Uhbuntu has grown from not existing a mere 3 years ago to being the fastest growing distro and the prom queen at the Linux Ball. At this rate, Ubuntu will likely be a household name. Not everyone owns a Mac, but they all know about it. It will be the same with Ubuntu.

I can support what they do right, but not what they do wrong. This treats the computer as second class. I looked closely at the terms and conditions of Complete Care. There is nothing stopping you from buying a MS 1505 laptop with complete care and installing Ubuntu. There are no exclusions regarding third party software. This line is merely second class. I am not saying they need to offer tv spots, slick magazine ads, etc. But offering hardware protection and an opportunity for a customer to protect his investment? When one forks over their money for this, one is saying,"Mr Dell, what you are doing here is a ok with me." It is not. In some ways (only far less drastic) it is like being asked to sit in the back of the bus and drink from a different water fountain since I am using Ubuntu. I am no man's b****.

The issue needs to be addressed and it needs to be explained. We lose our consumer voice because no one says anything.

[CaptainTux]

I got a reply from Dell.

Mr. Green,



Thank you for your note and a chance to solve this issue. I am about to get on an airplane, but will get your issue to our executive resolution team. They should be able to resolve. If you are not satisfied, please do not hesitate to contact me again.



Thank you for your business.



Todd Bartee

I checked the out of office reply. He is gone till the 15th. Today is Tuesday, I am giving the executive team 1 business day (today) to contac5t me and then I start making phone inquiries to see who he forwarded this to.

[Sunflower1970]

Got a linky? :D

Yup:

http://dellideastorm.com/article/show/67958/Can_we_assume_your_Linux_hardware_is_inferior_beca use_you_dropped_warranty_support

Read the 2nd post down..but looks like ya found it. I see your post over on that link :D

ETA:

Over on the dell linux forum, a liason named Jesse is going to be checking in to the warranty and what happened:

http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=sw_linux&thread.id=9918

[CaptainTux]

I have forwarded this internally at Canonical, see an identical thread including my comment here:
http://www.salmar.com/pipermail/wftl-lug/2007-June/016442.html
Fabian, thank you for doing this, BTW. If you need any further information or someone wishes to contact me, feel free to PM me and I wil give you my contact information.

[mifi]

When one forks over their money for this, one is saying,"Mr Dell, what you are doing here is a ok with me." It is not. In some ways (only far less drastic) it is like being asked to sit in the back of the bus and drink from a different water fountain since I am using Ubuntu. I am no man's b****.

The issue needs to be addressed and it needs to be explained. We lose our consumer voice because no one says anything.
We totally agree and it should be resolved. Dell should not change the rules after the purchase and it is totally unacceptable they take your money but drop the order. In your case, you are absolutely right. I do not regard your messages as Dell bashing at all, but as valid comments on an unacceptable situation.
(As the matter of fact, I have had a similar experience with Dell were they changed the order without my consent; I am glad I noticed in time and cancelled the order)

I also agree they could do some things better. And I agree that we do not buy from them unless we are satisfied with the offering.

That said, in general, I do have some sympathy for the difficulties they will be facing with MS. That is: SOME sympathy. Not unlimited sympathy.

I am not suggesting we support Dell by buying their products even if we are not satified, but some threads here have shown very general remarks with lots of negativity that is unneccesary. I would like to give Dell a chance.

mifi

[HotShotDJ]

Over on the dell linux forum, a liason named Jesse is going to be checking in to the warranty and what happened:
http://www.dellcommunity.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=sw_linux&thread.id=9918

Don't get your hopes up with Jesse checking into things. He is VERY diligent about sending concerns up the food chain. But we very rarely see him come back with a resolution. I'm sure it is not his fault that his superiors keep him as much in the dark as they keep us.

[CityofAsh]

It seems Dell is anxious to kill off this whole Linux thing quickly. There is no reason to remove a hardware warranty due to software.

Yeah. Its Called Economics and the power of Microsoft. Ya think microsoft is scared? You would think dell would try to market the linux PC's as another alternative to people not wanting vista. Its just like discontinueing XP and only offering Vista. I build my own PC's so i dont really care what dell does. Just sad they are screwing theyr customers.

~City

[CaptainTux]

An update:

I will be vocal when things are bad and I will be vocal when things are good. Todd did in fact forward the information up the food chain. I received a phone call from an executive in the resolution team by the name of Diane. She was very professional. She said she was unaware of the policy change. She discussed the issue with her peers and they do not understand the logic of this policy. She agrees that the OS does not have any bearing on hardware issues covered in the complete care (tm) offering. She is going to move further up the food chain to investigate this (along with the reduced normal warranty) and call me back later today.

I am actually beginning to get hopeful here. I will say that no one at Dell that I have spoken with has been rude. They have all been professional, but I need to keep going up the chain until this can be offered to Ubuntu Dell consumers again. I will keep you all updated.

[Sunflower1970]

I received a phone call from an executive in the resolution team by the name of Diane. She was very professional. She said she was unaware of the policy change. She discussed the issue with her peers and they do not understand the logic of this policy. She agrees that the OS does not have any bearing on hardware issues covered in the complete care (tm) offering. She is going to move further up the food chain to investigate this (along with the reduced normal warranty) and call me back later today.f

This could be a good sign..maybe someone who takes care of the website accidentally changed some coding or accidentally deleted the extended warranty option. I know I've seen things around our company when we've asked for a change to something the change was done, but then another item was inadvertently deleted....

[jrusso2]

Well if that doesn't work I had bought a Dell many years ago and it had hardware issues and Dell support was not getting it fixed.

I fired off and email to m.dell@dell.com and told him about the whole problem. The next day someone from his office was on my phone and all problems were solved in a couple of minutes.

Not sure if they still read his email.

But if this doesn't work might be worth a try.

[CaptainTux]

Well if that doesn't work I had bought a Dell many years ago and it had hardware issues and Dell support was not getting it fixed.

I fired off and email to m.dell@dell.com and told him about the whole problem. The next day someone from his office was on my phone and all problems were solved in a couple of minutes.

Not sure if they still read his email.

But if this doesn't work might be worth a try.
You are my hero jrusso. Great idea. I kinda wish this had not hit slashdot. I do not want a flame war here, I want resolution and improvement of policy. This is not a screw you to Dell, this is about commending what is right, calling what is wrong wrong, and commending them when they correct it.

[CaptainTux]

Additional thanks to columnist and author Marcel Gagne' for allowing me to post my story on his blog which he submitted to Digg. http://digg.com/linux_unix/The_saga_of_buying_an_Ubuntu_Dell_with_Complete_Ca re_tm

[Sunflower1970]

Good news!

http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2007/06/05/17450.aspx :)

Looks like it was a computer error...(or that's their story and they're sticking to it lol)

[CaptainTux]

Awesom, thank you for sharing, I am going to share it in every place I posted this tale.

[loserboy]

good to hear.

see I'm glad we refrained from dell bashing too quickly....

[danielandrews]

Very cool. Regardless of the reason it was dropped, it's nice to see they're going to bring it back.

[stchman]

If anything you should have ordered the 1505 laptop WITH Vista. You would have needed to get the Intel wireless cards. You could have then download the 7.04 iso and install. The laptop with Ubuntu or Vista are the same price!!!!

Whaty aslo kills me is that Ubuntu software is far more centralized than Vista. Apt-get over and get what you want.

[Znupi]

Looks like it was a computer error...(or that's their story and they're sticking to it lol)
I bet MS hacked their servers using a Linux box, lol! :popcorn:

[HotShotDJ]

Looks like it was a computer error...(or that's their story and they're sticking to it lol)
Wow... a computer error that also gives out scripts to the sales staff to explain that Linux comes from third party sources! LOL. No matter -- they're correcting it -- thats what is important.

[adampyre]

I keep waiting to see the other shoe to drop with this deal, but it looks like Dell is actually taking a concern. It is refreshing to not see a company immediately go into a state of "I am sorry, that is our current policy and there is nothing more we can do at this time..etc..etc..etc". Looks like maybe someone got their eyes crossed in a policy exchange and maybe they will actually correct it! Well done, man.

[CaptainTux]

If anything you should have ordered the 1505 laptop WITH Vista. You would have needed to get the Intel wireless cards. You could have then download the 7.04 iso and install. The laptop with Ubuntu or Vista are the same price!!!!

Whaty aslo kills me is that Ubuntu software is far more centralized than Vista. Apt-get over and get what you want.
I respectfully disagree. To have ordered vista would have suggested that is the product I want.

I received a follow up call from Diane from Dell on my way home from work today. She told me that when I had called, the assumption was that marketing had made a decision. However, since she agreed with me, she was not in her words, "tell a customer who wants a service from us that he cannot have it based on a theory." She pushed my case up to a VP who got back to her ten minutes after they released the link regarding their explanation. I do not know why I was told what I was told in the initial call. Simple fact was, everyone was polite, everyone was professional, and they responded in my (and all Ubuntu buyers) favor. My new Dell is ordered and should be here soon. Today, they earned my money.

[jrusso2]

I hope this was a mistake. Either was it seems to have been completely mishandled by Dell.

[sloggerkhan]

http://direct2dell.com/one2one/archive/2007/06/05/17450.aspx

thought you all might like to know, cause it looks like some don't.

[stchman]

I respectfully disagree. To have ordered vista would have suggested that is the product I want.

I received a follow up call from Diane from Dell on my way home from work today. She told me that when I had called, the assumption was that marketing had made a decision. However, since she agreed with me, she was not in her words, "tell a customer who wants a service from us that he cannot have it based on a theory." She pushed my case up to a VP who got back to her ten minutes after they released the link regarding their explanation. I do not know why I was told what I was told in the initial call. Simple fact was, everyone was polite, everyone was professional, and they responded in my (and all Ubuntu buyers) favor. My new Dell is ordered and should be here soon. Today, they earned my money.

I know that, I am saying you could have dumped Vista and installed Ubuntu. You could have then ebayed the Vista disc and WPA key.

My deal is that if you buy a laptop (same hardware) with Ubuntu it should be CHEAPER than a Vista equipped laptop.

Since Dell did not have to pay for the OS then why is the same laptop, same hardware the EXACT same price? Does Dell get Vista for free? I don't think so.

I have noticed that Linux equipped laptops are way more expensive than Vista laptops.

[bzsparks]

I know that, I am saying you could have dumped Vista and installed Ubuntu. You could have then ebayed the Vista disc and WPA key.

My deal is that if you buy a laptop (same hardware) with Ubuntu it should be CHEAPER than a Vista equipped laptop.

Since Dell did not have to pay for the OS then why is the same laptop, same hardware the EXACT same price? Does Dell get Vista for free? I don't think so.

I have noticed that Linux equipped laptops are way more expensive than Vista laptops.

In that case you would in fact be supporting MS, as they count that as a sale of Vista regardless, even if it is not your OS of choice. If everyone did that Dell would have no incentive to sell Ubuntu systems. You also need to take into consideration that Dell is not getting any kickbacks from installing bloat-ware on these new Ubuntu systems. Its a harsh truth but Dell makes some money off selling Vista with pre-installed software, and none when selling Ubuntu.

[RonKZ]

I just stumbled onto this forum and will share my thoughts.

First, I have 10 computers which I either rebuilt or built new; had to build a little workshop as my RV overflowed. A few months back all were ready to resell, all set up with misc Windoze, fully updated, using all open-source apps, Firefox, tBird, OpenOffice, etc.

Eventually I realized that the misc Windoze licensing could cause problems. I have been p.o.'d with M$ for years now, reaching the last straw with their activation, one-way licensing & snooping in our computers -- ENUF, Bill! I have been swearing to switch to Linux, and "now is the time"! Wish I'd done it years ago. Anyway now, with everything "ready to go" with my stash of "new" computers, it had to go on hold while I set out to make the switch. My, my! such a huge learning curve for an old man!

Now a key problem appeared, linux networking with dialup is a huge pain; both the kde and gnome stuff is buggy. Being in a small town in NM, DSL/Cable is not widely available, so these boxes MUST run dial-up. Tthose Dell/Ubuntu offerings -- NONE include a modem, take note! Anyway, I shopped ebay for weeks and replaced all those dang winmodems with serial / controller-based modems -- to me that is essential. IF one can get any winmodem to work, they'll be wasting so much time that is way cheaper to go serial-modem. Because I will not sell a computer that isn't set up and ready to roll, I have been STUCK. Tried many distros, liked Ubuntu best, adding dual-boot Ubuntu 6.06, then 6.10, then 7.04, NONE of them are stable with dial-up and ethernet LAN. Folks, let's face it, internet access is a major demand today, and we can't expect much market unless a newbie can get his/her network running with minimal hassle. I have now had to drop Ubuntu, it appearing that Madriva 2007.1 and Fedora Core 6 are both handling this issue better.

So, back to the thread subject. I admire Dell for their attempt. Seems to me they're correct avoiding software support, who can blame them??!! Especially supporting software that doesn't quite work! We observe also some movement toward Linux by HP and others. And sure, you just KNOW that M$ is working against it behind-the-scenes. But just because we made them so hugely rich doesn't mean that we should continue to allow them to waste half our lives keeping Windoze running - what if they had to pay us all for that??!!

IMHO, Linux is fairly close now to being real competition for M$ and Vi$ta, but it can't happen until GUI networking gets right. Frankly, this GNU stuff is really a great idea, but obviously an infusion of bigger bucks is sorely needed to make it ready, "free" is holding us all back. I am not a programmer -- thus cannot be any help in this. I haven't moved to Red Hat tho, and notice that several of the other distros seem to be moving toward various ways of making Linux pay off.

OK, I've said my piece. Thanx.

[luvdemheels]

Ron,
have you seen this page? Maybe it will help. Good luck.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/DialupModemHowto

[CaptainTux]

I have noticed that Linux equipped laptops are way more expensive than Vista laptops.

I do not mind that I am paying the same cost. I am also getting alot more value. As far as Linux laptops bieng overpriced...I agree in many cases. But look who is supplying it? Not Dell and HP, but small guys trying to dedicate time and energy for an enterprise with low profit margins. Only way to make money at this is to be a volume dealer. The small guy puts a lot of time and energy to making the computers good. They go for a higher margin per unit to make the business viable. Additionally, they do not get generous discounts on hardware since they are not buying in the same volume larger tier one vendors are.

[RonKZ]

Yes, saw that link, it's helpful. But it really does not cure the buggy Gnome, which has become even worse from 6.06 to 6.10 to 7.04 Feisty. That's why I'm not gonna be preinstalling Ubuntu for most customers; if they have dialup just forget it.

My point here is mainly that Ubuntu can't expect any newbie to deal with all this. It's the surest way of sending them back to M$! And hell, it took the Gates Crew years and years to get it halfway right.

but thanks anyway!

[stchman]

I just stumbled onto this forum and will share my thoughts.

First, I have 10 computers which I either rebuilt or built new; had to build a little workshop as my RV overflowed. A few months back all were ready to resell, all set up with misc Windoze, fully updated, using all open-source apps, Firefox, tBird, OpenOffice, etc.

Eventually I realized that the misc Windoze licensing could cause problems. I have been p.o.'d with M$ for years now, reaching the last straw with their activation, one-way licensing & snooping in our computers -- ENUF, Bill! I have been swearing to switch to Linux, and "now is the time"! Wish I'd done it years ago. Anyway now, with everything "ready to go" with my stash of "new" computers, it had to go on hold while I set out to make the switch. My, my! such a huge learning curve for an old man!

Now a key problem appeared, linux networking with dialup is a huge pain; both the kde and gnome stuff is buggy. Being in a small town in NM, DSL/Cable is not widely available, so these boxes MUST run dial-up. Tthose Dell/Ubuntu offerings -- NONE include a modem, take note! Anyway, I shopped ebay for weeks and replaced all those dang winmodems with serial / controller-based modems -- to me that is essential. IF one can get any winmodem to work, they'll be wasting so much time that is way cheaper to go serial-modem. Because I will not sell a computer that isn't set up and ready to roll, I have been STUCK. Tried many distros, liked Ubuntu best, adding dual-boot Ubuntu 6.06, then 6.10, then 7.04, NONE of them are stable with dial-up and ethernet LAN. Folks, let's face it, internet access is a major demand today, and we can't expect much market unless a newbie can get his/her network running with minimal hassle. I have now had to drop Ubuntu, it appearing that Madriva 2007.1 and Fedora Core 6 are both handling this issue better.

So, back to the thread subject. I admire Dell for their attempt. Seems to me they're correct avoiding software support, who can blame them??!! Especially supporting software that doesn't quite work! We observe also some movement toward Linux by HP and others. And sure, you just KNOW that M$ is working against it behind-the-scenes. But just because we made them so hugely rich doesn't mean that we should continue to allow them to waste half our lives keeping Windoze running - what if they had to pay us all for that??!!

IMHO, Linux is fairly close now to being real competition for M$ and Vi$ta, but it can't happen until GUI networking gets right. Frankly, this GNU stuff is really a great idea, but obviously an infusion of bigger bucks is sorely needed to make it ready, "free" is holding us all back. I am not a programmer -- thus cannot be any help in this. I haven't moved to Red Hat tho, and notice that several of the other distros seem to be moving toward various ways of making Linux pay off.

OK, I've said my piece. Thanx.

I had no problem getting my home network set up using GUI based tools. I don't much experience with dialup as I have been on broadband for almost 7 years. I actually find Ubuntu easier to set up a home network than Windows. You can do static IPs, DNS changes, and more through the GUI.

As far as dialup, from what I have read if you make sure you use hardware modems then you will be just fine. Winmodems are hit or miss with Linux.

[CaptainTux]

And hell, it took the Gates Crew years and years to get it halfway right.

but thanks anyway!
When did they get it right? Are we talking about this? (http://www.telecommander.com/pics/links/application%20software/microsoft/Microsoft_Bob_1_0/Microsoft_Bob_1_0.htm)

[loserboy]

When did they get it right? Are we talking about this? (http://www.telecommander.com/pics/links/application%20software/microsoft/Microsoft_Bob_1_0/Microsoft_Bob_1_0.htm)


hahaha, my 90MHz packerd bell had something like that.... it was so screwy

[CaptainTux]

And that, ladies and gentlemen, was one of 2 innovations by Microsoft. Excel...and Bob. :p

[joe dude]

I'm still somewhat partial to that paperclip help dude in MS office.

Too bad OOO does not have an equivalent!

[mifi]

And that, ladies and gentlemen, was one of 2 innovations by Microsoft. Excel...and Bob. :p
Excel? Lotus 1,2,3?
Are you suggesting that MS invented spreadsheets?
I am willing to believe they invented Bob ;)

mifi

[CaptainTux]

They did not invent it...not sure who did. The earliest one I ever used was Visi Calc on my Commodore vic 20 to run the books for my grandfather's grocery store when I was in Jr High. No, they did not invent in any more than Henry Ford invented the car, but y9ou can take a concept, improve it, run with it, and rock the world. I do not like MS Windows, I do not like MS business practices and I think that Ballmer is the lost twin to Uncle Fester, however, Excel has been the killer app in my lifetime so far. It sucks that they made it, but it is a wonderful program.

[Raval]

I know that, I am saying you could have dumped Vista and installed Ubuntu. You could have then ebayed the Vista disc and WPA key.

My deal is that if you buy a laptop (same hardware) with Ubuntu it should be CHEAPER than a Vista equipped laptop.

Since Dell did not have to pay for the OS then why is the same laptop, same hardware the EXACT same price? Does Dell get Vista for free? I don't think so.

I have noticed that Linux equipped laptops are way more expensive than Vista laptops.

If he bought the Vista loaded laptop M$ would have profited from the sale. If they sold Ubunutu for less they would be competing against themselves. Dell is not interested in spreading Ubuntu they are interested in getting into a niche market for added revenue.

Those who know about Linux are willing to pay the price for it pre-installed. Besides, they are going to sell a lower volume of PCs pre-installed with Ubuntu compared to Vista. The higher profit margin they are making on Ubuntu is going to make compensate for lower sales and make the effort worth it.

[CityofAsh]

If he bought the Vista loaded laptop M$ would have profited from the sale. If they sold Ubunutu for less they would be competing against themselves. Dell is not interested in spreading Ubuntu they are interested in getting into a niche market for added revenue.

Those who know about Linux are willing to pay the price for it pre-installed. Besides, they are going to sell a lower volume of PCs pre-installed with Ubuntu compared to Vista. The higher profit margin they are making on Ubuntu is going to make compensate for lower sales and make the effort worth it.


Ubuntu computers from Dell are about 200 dollars US Cheaper.

[bunted]

http://www.cs.uml.edu/~ntuck/dellbuntu/

It's less than $200.

[CityofAsh]

Well i guess i talked them down then. Plus coupon codes :D

[lsutiger]

I deal with Dell on a regular basis. Their tech support ( especially the overseas outsourced help) has much to be desired. But when I have a real problem that can't be solved through dell chat support, I get in touch with our salesrep. Everytime, they have been more than willing to help me out, go the extra mile, and have been completely professional. In addition, the matter was always resolved. That has happened a couple of handful of times in my 6 year relationship with Dell.

I applaud them in that manner. When the s**t hits the fan on the customer service side and you get in touch with someone 1 or 2 steps above the 1 tier tech support, you will get your issue solved. Thats my experience anyway.

[whistle]

/offtopic.

Eh, how do you get to their sales reps? I call "customer service" and I usually have to ask the guy to repeat what he says cause I can't understand him :-(

[lsutiger]

Well, our company sells Dell computers. We do about $500K worth of business with them a year. So I have a sales rep. And she takes care me. I sent her a whiney email about getting XP back on the systems a couple of months after MS forced Vista only. As soon as Dell started offering XP again, it was back on my order page.
All in all, Dell is a good company I think. They employ a good American workforce. Even though every part is built outside of the USA ( what computer part isn't? ), it is put together her in the good ole US of A ( no offence to other nations or nationalities..but I love my country just as much as you love yours!).

[CaptainTux]

lsutiger and whistle have different experiences because of the different level of clientelle. One pushes large units for Dell, the other is an occasional PC here and there. That said, the level of attention to the needs of a client need to be equal to all clients regardless as to the size of client or the amount of money at stake.

A part of this is incumbent on customers to not only know what is wrong, but what they want in the form of resolution. The CSR needs to be attentive and a pro active listener.

My experience was good, but part of that is due to the fact I am experienced with customer service and know how to massage my way up the ladder.

[Raval]

lsutiger and whistle have different experiences because of the different level of clientelle. One pushes large units for Dell, the other is an occasional PC here and there. That said, the level of attention to the needs of a client need to be equal to all clients regardless as to the size of client or the amount of money at stake.

A part of this is incumbent on customers to not only know what is wrong, but what they want in the form of resolution. The CSR needs to be attentive and a pro active listener.

My experience was good, but part of that is due to the fact I am experienced with customer service and know how to massage my way up the ladder.

Well, I sell Dell computers too and the volume is not as high and one time I did have a problem, my sales rep. straighten out the matter in 15mins. As opposed to the lower departments that couldn't in 45mins. They kept switching me from department to department. When you have a complex situation and have to explain it to everyone you're transfer too trust me when I say I'd rather visit the dentist.

I own a Dell computer and tried tech support once to ask about specs on the memory and every time I asked a question the rep. would have to put me on hold to find out. He then tried to convince me the information wasn't important. Ever since I ask on forums. I no longer use Dell tech support. Oh one more thing about the sales rep. it just takes a mild complaint by email and they sort things out.