Linux Desktop Readiness Thread

[bwallum]

Could we start a new thread please? Ubuntu has come on leaps and bounds and it would be really useful to take another 'satisfaction' poll and compare it with the previous one.

[frankwakeman]

I won't bother anyone by putting this in the testiminial section, as I know there's nothing really new here, but despite the following words I'm still interested in Ubuntu, and hope in 2012 or so I can come back and be satisfied...

Take it away, me...

"I’ve spent a year trying out Linux, mostly Ubuntu (8.10 first and then all older and newer versions), Mint and Xubuntu. For quite some time it was novel, and I’ve enjoyed the convenience of not being concerned with viruses. I like the apparent philosophy of open source, while seeing it as something complementary to paid for stuff. Some attitudes expressed are a bit naive, about how an economy can work, and how talent might be rewarded and encouraged.

I like an operating system to look as good as it can as well as function well. Like many people, I’m dissatisfied with the presentation of most versions of Linux. Kubuntu looks great but I gave up on it because of its bugs as far as current versions go - a dead icon that should have allowed my Mobile Broadband to start up and poor font rendering compared to Ubuntu or Windows.

I’ve now put Windows 2000 on my 1.3 ghz pc, XP on my netbook, and my laptop which had dual-booted Vista and Ubuntu 8.10-9.10 now just has Windows 7 on. The W2K machine still suits that OS better than, e.g. Xubuntu, performance-wise. I have very little money, but I’d rather put some aside and spend it if it’ll get me away from tinkering. I will look in on how Ubuntu develops, and I think once Windows 7 is long in the tooth both Ubuntu and I might be ready for one another. Then again I might be out of my financial doldrums and just buy a Mac.

I find by the evidence the people working on Ubuntu to be either stubborn or oblivious. I respect very much the talent and thought required to program and sort out bugs, to the xtent of never using words like 'geek' which seem lazy and dehumanising; and if someone can’t get hold of Windows or is otherwise unable or unwilling to use that, Ubuntu may suit them. But there is not a single finished professional-grade theme available for Ubuntu/Gnome, with the possible exception of Redmond if like me you like and can periodically tolerate a ‘design classic’ - all the others are either garish, tasteless colour mismatches like brown with grey (would you dress in those?), or some combination of buttons and colours that clash or are shoddy. The minimum we should expect is that Open Office and Firefox look fine, but there are all these boxes that are the wrong shape for where they’re situated, as with 'Human', or dirty great black sections that offened your eyes, e.g. 'Dust'. The main programs like Totem ought to have a default skin befitting 2009, not just look like a folder window with a couple of sketchy buttons tacked on that are available in any other distro. It’s not just a superficial issue either. A satisfying looking work environment puts you in a good frame of mind. It's an important part of the psychology of technology. Well designed skins - the ones for VLC are a barely functional mess - make you feel like you’re not just dealing with a cold, alien bit of technology, with the skins having the psychological effect of making you feel you’re operating something real. An illusion but a functional one.

The libdvdcss2 decoder is unfinished, showing flaws on four different computers I’ve used it with, including with the Windows version of VLC. I would think the problem was mine if were just one machine. The new boot-up splash screen for Ubuntu is a step back from the professional, finished look of 9.04’s. The new default icons, while an attempt to not rely on stock Gnome icons, are half-realised. I’d be unable to comment on how efficient the kernel and other under-the-bonnet aspects of Ubuntu are, but they don’t belong to Canonical, and I wonder how hard it can be to tack four or five ready-made sections of an operating system together. If Ubuntu is going to distinguish itself, it needs to be what it’s always claimed to be, Linux for human beings. Before 9.04 came out, Mark Shuttleworth mentioned employing a design team from that point on. I see no sign of any offerings with any flair or capacity for finishing a job so far, unless things are being held back for a staggering improvement with the hopefully LTS 10.04. I wouldn’t blame anyone for buying a Mac or a Windows pc even if they get a fresh bit of credit card debt going to do so, rather than end up stuck making enquiries on forums several days a week either because something doesn’t work or to find out how to stop their machine looking like Windows 95, and developing a wish to get their life back. None of us deny that Windows people have troubles. This alone is only one part of my dissatisfaction and it’s on Ubuntu fans’ and developers’ own heads if they seize on it and not the other criticisms. Open source ideology aside from both my experience and observing forums, Windows problems are still far fewer, and more banal, and it doesn’t matter to the average computer user that this is partly because manufacturers tweak their kit after installation - why should a customer give a toss about that, they just want to use the thing for something entertaining, not tinker. All well and good that Dell and Canonical might be courting, but I can’t see Dell putting much into their Ubuntu side of things if the actual product needs so much tweaking to be a serious competitor. Analogously, on the Open Solaris site there is a link to info on a Toshiba netbook that apparently sports Open Solaris. When you go this Toshiba site, there is no evidence of anything but Windows 7. (What is it with the Sun people too - they own Open Office but don’t bother putting this thing of theirs on the OS which would make the thing a few codecs away from instantly useable all round for many people - for God’s sake...)

Briefly I was a 100% Linux user, rarely booting into my Vista partition and then deleting Vista altogether. But apart from the effects of the dreary aesthetics of Ubuntu, I needed to use a free bit of software - not even something elaborate - which there is no competitior for in Linux, despite some half-useable attempts. This is audio software to record guitar and songs. The Linux alternatives aren’t even half as good as this one simple free program I use, let alone any expensive commercial alternatives. And no, ‘Kristal’ doesn’t work properly with Wine, and its own highly Linux-literate community have tried, believe me.

I use the Windows word procssor Jarte, which starts up quick, is Word-compatible and does offer ‘smart quotes’. Abi Word doesn’t, and Open Office can take fifteen or twenty seconds to start up. How long should it take for a simple function like smart quotes to be rectified in Abi Word? We’ve been wating years, when it’s a couple of days’ bug-fix, surely, if its writers care about and are motivated towards what they’re doing at all, otherwise why didn’t we all just keep our Atari ST’s, or DOS?

I’ve been interested and open-minded - a full yesr of trying, and filling 50 with CD-r’s with distros - but I’ve been more productive since going back to having these three versions of Windows going. Criticisms of Linux rile many people here and elsewhere, but a mere operating system is too small a thing to invest passion for most people, and if developers don’t listen, or maintain this stubbornness about where Ubuntu may go, or are in denial about what might constitute progress, the project will stagnate, or some competitor will take the Ubuntu basis and tack on top of it what it needs, and they’ll rightly be the ones to attain wealth and kudos.

Lastly, that dreadful, cheesy and tinny startup jingle has got to go. Even the brief ‘ambient’ chord that began Ubuntu 5.04 was better (and the KDE equivalent is fine). I’m sure there are thousands of musicians who’d offer to do something like Robert Fripp and Brian Eno have for Windows - something acoustic and ‘live’, not built from tinny samples, would suit Ubuntu’s alleged aesthetic."

[nerdy_kid]

it shouldnt need to get 'configured' after its been installed.

[mechanic]

<snip>
Analogously, on the Open Solaris site there is a link to info on a Toshiba netbook that apparently sports Open Solaris.


http://www.shopopensolaris.co.uk/suntoshiba/home.htm

Looks like a customised Tosh, not a standard product from them.

[KayleL]

I am going to say that I am quite impressed with Ubuntu. These were problems that I was expecting because I had trouble in windows.

Wireless adapter
Printer
Raw files from my Nikon D60
Confusing my family

Lately, I been having problems with my crappy wireless adapter on Windows, but not only it's working better in Ubuntu, I need no drivers! The wireless adaptor is still crap, so I would have to replace it soon anyway. Till than, My whole family is using Ubuntu. This was a true test of the system because my family had very little experience with Linux, and only used it at times I was just playing around with it.

Well, my sister had to do homework, so I was preparing for printer driver problems to come up, but she printed her paper with no problems. No drivers needed once again.

My sister needed to upload some photos. I was sure that this is where Ubuntu would break the user friendliness, but the only problem was converting the photos into jpg for facebook. The importing to computer stage didn't need my assistance.

So after a week of Ubuntu, my family came across few to no problems, which is astonishing for me. Hell, my family has a harder time converting to Mac.

The only problem is Adobe's lack of flash support. Yes, with do have the latest version of flash, but it runs noticeably slow, and sometimes crashing Firefox if it's a HD youtube video.

Other than that, I think I could safely install Ubuntu on my grandma's computer with few to no problems.

[bwallum]

Other than that, I think I could safely install Ubuntu on my grandma's computer with few to no problems.

Done just that, 86 years of age, bless her. Skypes, emails and surfs with the best of them. Gimp is a mystery to her, granted, but general online stuff is easy (and safe) with Ubuntu.

I can't agree with frankwakeman but I can see that if you explore every little backwater of linux you will find software that is, errr..., not quite mature yet. Stick to the mainstream however and the software is really good. OpenOffice loads in two and a half seconds for me, for example.

[J V]

Could we start a new thread please? Ubuntu has come on leaps and bounds and it would be really useful to take another 'satisfaction' poll and compare it with the previous one.
+1, if everyone thought this 5 years ago, perhaps a simple "Which distros are ready for the desktop" poll?

[Frak]

+1, if everyone thought this 5 years ago, perhaps a simple "Which distros are ready for the desktop" poll?
I would vote "none". Many people still think Linux isn't ready for the desktop.

[djchandler]

I would vote "none". Many people still think Linux isn't ready for the desktop.

:P

Not to be a troll, but are you saying you base your opinions on what other people think?

How many is many? Many people won't use Windows. Many people won't use Mac OS X. Many people have never even heard of BSD, yet it exists.

Are your using any Linux distribution? If so, how does it work for you? Isn't that all that really matters?

[Frak]

I would vote "none". Many people still think Linux isn't ready for the desktop.


:P

Not to be a troll, but are you saying you base your opinions on what other people think?

Maybe? Anyways, Linux works fine for me. Though, when I'm on, I use programs that only work on Windows (re: CS4, Maplestory, etc).

[djchandler]

Could we start a new thread please? Ubuntu has come on leaps and bounds and it would be really useful to take another 'satisfaction' poll and compare it with the previous one.

Agreed. This thread needs to be locked and a new discussion started. IMHO it should happen every time there's a new LTS version, minimum. it's gotten to the point where the only reason I respond here is to point out who the trolls are. And there's way too many of them.

Additionally, there should be a demonstration of experience with Ubuntu before one is allowed to post here. Perhaps that could be incorporated with the poll. The poll is closed once you've voted. So why not include a short test of basic user experience? A passing grade on that would permit you to post. That would certainly keep people out that just want to come in and bash FOSS because they feel threatened by it. Change the test every once in a while, say every six months with the release of a new distribution.

There's a lot of griping that fundamentally has no merit whatsoever. It's like some people have never heard of a search engine, they are clueless as to the degree of tech support there is available for Ubuntu or are unwilling to accept the fact that Linux is a different OS than Windows. Perhaps if they paid for tech support (as they do for Windows unless they are pirating it), they'd find themselves a lot happier with Ubuntu.

Windows has a huge amount of problems with drivers too. Try running any hardware over 5 years old or less than two months on the market, and you're likely to run into some kind of problem. Somehow people just accept that when running Windows, or else they are still running the configuration the machine had when they bought it with Windows pre-installed and attribute every problem they encounter to a virus or trojan.

Finally, there's absolutely no comparison between my first Ubuntu experience (Dapper) and what I'm able to do now with Karmic. I realize a lot of that is because of what I've learned, but there are many other factors. But it's gotten to the point where I'm so immersed in the Ubuntu experience, the lines get very blurry for me when it comes to making that judgment.
:popcorn:

[Frak]

it's gotten to the point where the only reason I respond here is to point out who the trolls are. And there's way too many of them.

If there's "way too many of them", maybe you are the one who doesn't want to believe in what they say?

[detroit/zero]

Additionally, there should be a demonstration of experience with Ubuntu before one is allowed to post here. Perhaps that could be incorporated with the poll. The poll is closed once you've voted. So why not include a short test of basic user experience? A passing grade on that would permit you to post. That would certainly keep people out that just want to come in and bash FOSS because they feel threatened by it. Change the test every once in a while, say every six months with the release of a new distribution.
Wonderful idea! Just like the literacy tests of old that freed slaves had to pass in order to vote. As long as the results don't affect my ability to own land, I'm in!

If I don't pass your test, will you at least promise to count me as three fifths of a person?

[djchandler]

Maybe? Anyways, Linux works fine for me. Though, when I'm on, I use programs that only work on Windows (re: CS4, Maplestory, etc).

So you've spent at least three years using Ubuntu (based on your join date) and you are unable to find software that does those tasks?

My need to sell my product no longer are an issue, but back when I collaborated with publishers and printing companies using lithography, getting high-res camera-ready copy was what was important. Being able to do separations, accommodating various printing methods, using high quality paper for laser printing and having at least 600 dpi for a laser printer was what mattered. Those laser printers were big investments back then, as well as the 32(80) pound bright white paper that was insisted upon. I used a lot of paper. We were compositing college textbooks for one of our clients.

I see you mentioned Adobe CS4. Is the problem that people won't accept work from you if it's done with anything but Adobe Creative Suite?

Used to be that if you did graphic design, people wouldn't take you seriously unless you used a Mac. To some extent that snobbery still exists. I suggest that the unwillingness to accept work unless it's done with Adobe Creative Suite is just an extension of that kind of snobbery.

When it comes right down to it, it's your creativity as an artist or designer that really makes the difference. But the problem is, a good artist can't compete with a good technical Creative Suite user due to that kind of snobbery. Having good tools is essential, but that doesn't make you creative. That comes from the opposite side of your brain than where the skill to master technology originates.

As for your addiction(?) to a Maplestory, I have no answer to that. But there's plenty of games that run on other platforms, most Wii games for instance, that won't run on Windows either. That's strictly a choice you have made. Have you tried running it in a VM? Being 2D, I would think it should run under Wine. But I'm clueless when it comes to most games, so I have no idea how much dependence there is on DirectX. Of course, the game could have been done using OpenGL, making it compatible with almost all OSes, but that's a choice the developers made.

Please clarify the phrase, "Though, when I'm on." I don't understand. Do you mean anytime you are online, using the internet? If so, it would seem to me you are overlooking the greatest advantage there is to using Linux.

Finally, I have this question for you. Why do you care about Ubuntu/Linux at all? Seems to me your life requires Windows.
:confused:

[Frak]

So you've spent at least three years using Ubuntu (based on your join date) and you are unable to find software that does those tasks?

I like Maplestory, it's a great way to calm my nerves after a rough day of work. Nothing matches CS4, nothing. When I'm on means "When I'm on and not doing work".

Also, watch how you post. You are stepping on the Code of Conduct.

[djchandler]

Wonderful idea! Just like the literacy tests of old that freed slaves had to pass in order to vote. As long as the results don't affect my ability to own land, I'm in!

If I don't pass your test, will you at least promise to count me as three fifths of a person?

Ouch!

I don't think what I'm proposing equates in any way to disenfranchising anyone, especially in the satiracle manner in which you expressed it. The reference to racism in your response was a little "over the top."

But don't you think the poll should only apply to people who actually use or have used Linux? Otherwise you allow hearsay (second or third hand) opinions to warp the outcome of the poll.

Have you ever served on a jury? The lawyers screen all the potential jurors by asking questions about the experiences and bias the prospective jurors may have against their clients. The aim is to get a fair and unbiased opinion. That is the essence of what I'm proposing.

So, do you really think you can have a valid opinion about what is by definition a presentation of empirical evidence without ever actually having had such an experience that allows valid observations to be made? All I want to do is apply some scientific methodology to this poll and this thread. Wouldn't you rather read provable facts and valid hypotheses presented here rather than biased opinion based on nothing but self-interest or hearsay?

Statements such as, "Many people still think Linux isn't ready for the desktop" without backing up the statement with data and some sort of proof of experience with Linux is nothing more than a provocation. It demands a response to challenge the thought process of the individual making that statement and testing it's validity. At that point the thread does become a series of challenges as to whose hypothesis is valid and who's just being provocative for the purpose of invalidating via fallacies or ad hominem attacks, such as what you did when you equated my proposal for a "test" to me being some sort of racist.
:(

[djchandler]

Also, watch how you post. You are stepping on the Code of Conduct.

I am? Please explain.

If you are taking this personally, that's not my intention. But I do intend to show that there is some bias being presented here that has nothing to do with the actual degree of readiness of Linux. What I'm reading in your post is bashing for the sake of elevating the status of another desktop OS without providing evidence of experience with Linux. What I'm doing is challenging your knowledge and what could be an underlying ulterior motive. Where's the violation?

If you felt personally attacked by what I said about Maplestory, then I apologize. What I was pointing out is that the game could possibly be played within Linux via other means.

As for the discourse about my professional experience in publishing and recounting my own experience with the tools and those I had to deal with, that was real. Bias is rampant in the creative arts where technology is being applied because many using the creative tools truly don't understand the underlying technology. For that reason, bias became part of the equation. Clients felt more comfortable with pros using Macs and Adobe or QuarkXPress because they had become de facto accepted standards, recognizable brand names, and those standards became an easy if superficial means of automatically assessing and assuming the degree of creativity and proficiency the potential contractor could provide.

Knowledge of those tools had little if anything to do with actual creativity. Courses at JuCo were being offered. For a few bucks you could get your certificate and a student copy of the software. I actually made more money compositing textbooks with FrameMaker. Nobody had heard of that before Adobe swallowed Frame. You know why? Because it originated on Unix, was developed for high-end workstations, and was aimed at technical document production. FrameMaker provided excellent tools, vector graphics for technical illustrations, an extremely high degree of typographical control, exactly the features I needed for textbooks running up to 500 or more pages.

If the question about why you are interested in Linux at all is your problem, then I suggest you are trying to invalidate my challenge of your opinion via ad hominem methods, implying to others that may not know what the code of conduct is that I'm the one being a troll here. Did I call you any names directly? Please point out my transgressions. I suggest that your threat to me about how and what I post is what could be construed as a violation of the code of conduct. Those smilies are available for a reason, including the one that gives you the raspberries. Here it is again.
:P

[yester64]

In a perfect world, the OS would be easy to install and everything works right out of the box.
this can be said is only closed on the mac platform, at least from my previous experiences.
But i am getting a little tired of reading messages with the contex that Linux is so far of the road that it is a wonder that it has so many followers.
For most people software is available which does what it supposed to. And if not, get involved to change things.
So far, Ubuntu works fine but i have not really exotic hardware either, meaning its not really old hardware.
Besides, you realize how Windows oriented the hardware world is, if hardware runs better on windows then on linux. There are for a reason Winmodems.
So it is not the entire fault of Linux that there are hardware issues, rather it is the hardware manufactures who support mainly windows and nothing else.
The same is in the software market.
Most companies support mainly only Windows. Does it make the software then better? Not sure about that.
A lot of people swear of Outlook or Office as the best piece of Office application around. If thats the standart, then we are lost.

As far as installtion goes, i think Ubuntu is fairly simple. Beside of typing a password what do you need to know?
If you want different software, then you need some more knowledge in how to install it. It requires the user to know something about his OS.
I do not think that Linux lags greatly behind Windows, because you can't compare these two OS really.
Since Windows gets all the support from every software and hardware maker and Linux not that much, it is unbalanced.

In a perfect world, it would be great to find Adobe Photoshop on Linux. Or any other app out there.
But i challenge that not everyone who says he needs the software, really pays for it. Think about it. $700?

Linux as whole will get better any time and i really think it is a great OS replacement for Windows.

[djchandler]

If there's "way too many of them", maybe you are the one who doesn't want to believe in what they say?

Caught you, didn't I? "Methinks thou dost protest too much."

And for the sake of honesty, you should include in your signature that you are a member of the Linsux.org. UF user group. If you are going to troll on the Ubuntu Forums, you should at least say you have never seriously used Linux, and you are just here to provoke, regardless of any protestations to the contrary.

Are you here to be of any help, or just denigrate what you don't understand? You admit you don't have a real reason to be here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=931954).

Man. did I ever hit the nail on the head when I challenged your post. Your bias is soooooo transparent. The truth hurts a little, doesn't it?

I see you have needed to protest an infraction yourself (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=976057) before. I suggest as KiwiNZ (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?find=lastposter&t=976057) did then that using smilies would be to your benefit if you are going to deliberately tweak noses.
:lolflag:

[ViperChief]

Caught you, didn't I? "Methinks thou dost protest too much."

And for the sake of honesty, you should include in your signature that you are a member of the Linsux.org. UF user group. If you are going to troll on the Ubuntu Forums, you should at least say you have never seriously used Linux, and you are just here to provoke, regardless of any protestations to the contrary.

Are you here to be of any help, or just denigrate what you don't understand? You admit you don't have a real reason to be here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=931954).

Man. did I ever hit the nail on the head when I challenged your post. Your bias is soooooo transparent. The truth hurts a little, doesn't it?

I see you have needed to protest an infraction yourself (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=976057) before. I suggest as KiwiNZ (http://ubuntuforums.org/member.php?find=lastposter&t=976057) did then that using smilies would be to your benefit if you are going to deliberately tweak noses.
:lolflag:

You do realize that KiwiNZ has taken to closing threads when people start resorting to inter-site crap here, especially when it comes to Linsux.

Also, just a quick thought: stop assuming you know things about people. 99% of Linsux members have been using Linux, and continue to do so. Several of them have been using Linux since before Ubuntu was even a thought. Come on, you do know what assuming does, right?

Anyway, I welcome the mods to come in here and put a stop to this crap of calling someone a Linsux troll because they disagree. I ask this again: why does every disagreement end up involving the word "Linsux" in the thread?


EDIT: If you have a problem with Linsux, then go over there. Don't start stupid stuff over here, please. This isn't the place for it, and 99% of people who start it end up with egg all over there face due to the fact that they do not know the true credentials of the members they are referring to as "trolls" and who they imply know nothing about Linux. It doesn't belong over here. Go register at Linsux and debate over there if you have a problem or think they're wrong.