Ubuntu in the office

[poofyhairguy]

So I have thought about it a lot, and I figured something out. For the last two days I have been wondering "what desktop does Ubuntu target actually?" Everywhere you look it is called a "desktop distro" but after some experience on this forum I can tell you that 90%+ of home desktops won't jive with the official Ubuntu release as it is. Home users want Flash and Java and media files to play, which are all things that make the Ubuntu install you are adding that to "unofficial." Home users are better served by a Linspire or a SUSE.

After much thought, I decided that the only "desktop" the default Ubuntu serves well is the office desktop. A secretary or worker that just needs to hammer out office docs or check there email can stay within the "official" Ubuntu without needing backports/multiverse/universe. In the office the lack of Flash/java/games/codecs could be seen as a good thing.

Since that is the target (which seems obvious to me now that I look at the pay for support options provided), I must wonder out loud:

What can be done to make Ubuntu a better office OS? What does it lack in the normal install that a regular office user would need?

[sapo]

So I have thought about it a lot, and I figured something out. For the last two days I have been wondering "what desktop does Ubuntu target actually?" Everywhere you look it is called a "desktop distro" but after some experience on this forum I can tell you that 90%+ of home desktops won't jive with the official Ubuntu release as it is. Home users want Flash and Java and media files to play, which are all things that make the Ubuntu install you are adding that to "unofficial." Home users are better served by a Linspire or a SUSE.

After much thought, I decided that the only "desktop" the default Ubuntu serves well is the office desktop. A secretary or worker that just needs to hammer out office docs or check there email can stay within the "official" Ubuntu without needing backports/multiverse/universe. In the office the lack of Flash/java/games/codecs could be seen as a good thing.

Since that is the target (which seems obvious to me now that I look at the pay for support options provided), I must wonder out loud:

What can be done to make Ubuntu a better office OS? What does it lack in the normal install that a regular office user would need?


I understand where are you trying to get.. but i think that if you think in more details ubuntu isnt suited for office either..

here almost ALL the banks website uses "java virtual keyboards" in the password input.

Wich office you know that uses just the openoffice suit? i think that every office needs some custom apps to control cash flow, billing, employes.. etc...

if you think in this way.. ubuntu without ANY proprietary software is just a joke.. (dont blame me.. i love ubuntu, but its impossible to live 100% free of proprietary stuff)

[poofyhairguy]

I understand where are you trying to get.. but i think that if you think in more details ubuntu isnt suited for office either..

Depends on what office.

here almost ALL the banks website uses "java virtual keyboards" in the password input.

Then they are out.

Wich office you know that uses just the openoffice suit? i think that every office needs some custom apps to control cash flow, billing, employes.. etc...

I have been in plenty of offices where the person at the front desk is just answering phones and cranking out office docs. Sure...some use custom stuff....but not nearly all do. For many of those that use custom stuff, its a Windows program so any Linux won't work anyway. Even Linspire.


if you think in this way.. ubuntu without ANY proprietary software is just a joke.. (dont blame me.. i love ubuntu, but its impossible to live 100% free of proprietary stuff)

Not really. It not joke. To be able to surf the web...make docs without a single proprietary app. is an amazing thing. Sure some offices need that stuff....but those aren't the one I'm talking about.

I could be wrong...but I can imagine an office setting where that stuff isn't needed (granted in those situations the computers are just glorified word processors that do email).

If you are correct, Canoical will never make money supporting Ubuntu (the paid for support only applies to official install) and this whole thing is destined to be a failure. I hope you are wrong.

[sapo]

Not really. It not joke. To be able to surf the web...make docs without a single proprietary app. is an amazing thing. Sure some offices need that stuff....but those aren't the one I'm talking about.

I could be wrong...but I can imagine an office setting where that stuff isn't needed (granted in those situations the computers are just glorified word processors that do email).

If you are correct, Canoical will never make money supporting Ubuntu (the paid for support only applies to official install) and this whole thing is destined to be a failure. I hope you are wrong.

hum.. let me change my text so you can understand my point of view..

You know that you tv have 50 channels, why are you gonna be stuck with just one just cause its the first or its the better one?

Why an office HAVE to just type text and read email?

Now imagine yourself, sitting in you chair, with your cup of warm coffee, waiting for a call.. yes you are a secretary... but nobody calls, you look at the monitor and you see your openoffice,

Then you think: "Maybe i Should type a letter, or maybe i can improve my typing speed practicing"

Or are you gonna think: "Man.. it is so boring.. i think i ll browse some websites.. and you do it"

After 2 months in this work.. you are still browsing the web, the you think.. i could play some flash games.. but then you remember.. you dont have a flash player!

then you think: "Damit, i use ubuntu, i cant play flash games cause it is proprietary, i ll google some random stuff instead"

Or do you think: "Man.. how the hell do i istall the flash player here?"

I think that i didnt need to write all this long text but its the truth...

Wich office do you know that the employees are robots that just WORK and dont dont everything else?

you dont NEED proprietary software but you WANT to do things that you can do just WITH proprietary software.

this is my point of view.. we know that we dont need it.. but we still want it.

Do you need to watch tv for living? do you need to play games? you can live without then.. but you dont live without them...

Or do you like a life like this:

while($alive == true) {
wake_up();
work();
eat();
work();
eat();
sleep();
if($death) {
$alive = false;
}
}


i m not defending proprietary software.. i dont like them.. but i want to do things that i can do just if i use them ](*,)

[poofyhairguy]

Now imagine yourself, sitting in you chair, with your cup of warm coffee, waiting for a call.. yes you are a secretary... but nobody calls, you look at the monitor and you see your openoffice,

Then you think: "Maybe i Should type a letter, or maybe i can improve my typing speed practicing"

Or are you gonna think: "Man.. it is so boring.. i think i ll browse some websites.. and you do it"

After 2 months in this work.. you are still browsing the web, the you think.. i could play some flash games.. but then you remember.. you dont have a flash player!


Sapo....if I was an employer you might have just sold Ubuntu to me...."so my workers can't screw around all day!! Where do I sign up?"

That was my point...

[desdinova]

The only thing I would counter with, is the thing about home users and java/flash.

You could counter with yes, you have to do a little extra work to get them (a few clicks) but unlike other OS's you're getting word processing, graphics, music, programming etc free and set up straight away

[WildTangent]

well...i guess this is one time i dont entirely agree with you. yes, i do think ubuntu is a great desktop distro, including work desktops, but as for enhancing it to specialize it for that task...i dont think thats really neccesary, ubuntu comes with most things needed, and if anything additional is needed, why not just apt-get it? i dont think ubuntu needs more off-shoots, especially if the generic version can do the job just as well on its own.

-Wild

[N'Jal]

but unlike other OS's you're getting word processing, graphics, music, programming etc free and set up straight away

I like your thinking! :D Many a time i have had to spend hours setting up windows with office suites and funnily enough, the java and flash plugins, (how strange windows does not come with that installed either), devolopment environments, and the like, i seems for every app that needs configureing in linux there's one that needs installing in windows.

[desdinova]

Exactly - using synaptic is like a walk in a treasure trove ;-)

[gil-galad]

Windows doesn't come with java and flash either. If you need them you go to *gasp* sun's or macromedia's site and you download them, same for either windows or linux.

[N'Jal]

So that's the flash and java argument totally gone, since NO major OS has it included by default. Well except perhaps Solaris :P

[poofyhairguy]

well...i guess this is one time i dont entirely agree with you. yes, i do think ubuntu is a great desktop distro, including work desktops, but as for enhancing it to specialize it for that task...i dont think thats really neccesary, ubuntu comes with most things needed

I don't want to change Ubuntu. Its just that I was wondering what "desktop user" would actually be happy with the default Ubuntu install.

and if anything additional is needed, why not just apt-get it?

Because most of the things you can apt-get are unofficial. Anthing that is not in the main (aka synaptic before you follow the Ubuntu guide) is unofficial.

That might not matter to you and me, but it might matter for a business that needs support. The paid support plans (aka the way Ubuntu will hopefully make money one day):

http://www.ubuntulinux.org/support/supportoptions/paidsupport

I quote:

The Ubuntu software repository is divided into three components, main, restricted and universe on the basis of our ability to support that software and whether or not it meets the goals laid out in our Free Software Philosophy. Ubuntu support agreements include full support for packages in main, partial support for packages in restricted (our ability to support this software it is restricted by factors beyond our control, imposed on us by the originators of the software), and no support for software in universe.

Ephansis is mine. So basically I was trying to think: "what desktop user could resist not jumping into the universe and the backports? How will Canonical ever make any money if every Ubuntu box in the world is disqualified for pay support?"

So I came up with the only idea I could.

[poofyhairguy]

Many a time i have had to spend hours setting up windows with office suites and funnily enough, the java and flash plugins, (how strange windows does not come with that installed either), devolopment environments, and the like, i seems for every app that needs configureing in linux there's one that needs installing in windows.

That is irrelevent almost. The majority (90+%?) of copies of Windows sold are OEM copies sent out on machine. We should not compare Ubuntu to base Windows....we need to compare Ubuntu to Windows after Dell or HP or whatever manufacturer is done with it.

I don't know this stuff. Does Dell come with Java and Flash support out of the box? Does HP?

[N'Jal]

My mates have Dell laptops i can find out for you if you want.

[poofyhairguy]

My mates have Dell laptops i can find out for you if you want.

Please.

[sonny]

we need to compare Ubuntu to Windows after Dell or HP or whatever manufacturer is done with it.
I'll have to disagree with you here... cuz that's exactly why I LOVE Linux, cuz they just give you the basic and you do the rest, I mean... if you don't want an app then you won't install it, if you buy a Sony Vaio it's so full of Sony stuff almost as if it were posses by it, you have to call an exorcit cus it's like a demon... Anyone who has bought a Sony vaio can tell you that, they put SO many thing you don't need or you don't want to use, and uninstalling all that crap takes longer than installing WinXP and then upgrade to SP2 (well I might have exagerate a little ).... I hate Sony computer just because of that, and those programs don't do anything you want, but if you use Ubuntu you just have the very basic install of an OS, and if you're a developer you just install your apps and you're done, if you're a gammer, do the same, Office use??? do the same, install what you need, cuz you don't apt-get anything you don't want... but that's my humble opinion.

[N'Jal]

you have to call an exorcit cus it's like a demon...

Linux has daemons too, remember? Sorry couldn't resist :p

[sapo]

Sapo....if I was an employer you might have just sold Ubuntu to me...."so my workers can't screw around all day!! Where do I sign up?"

That was my point...


Hum.. maybe i should sell ubuntu hehe :grin:

btw every that i know that works in a computer do these things.. i have some friends that have msn and icq bloqued in the network but they use some apps that make the proxy server thinks that msn and icq are browsers request ](*,)

[Ride Jib]

I don't know this stuff. Does Dell come with Java and Flash support out of the box?

My inspiron came with java, but no flash.


Also, I am about to graduate from the University, and will become co-partner in my father's company. After two years, I will be the sole operator. I am planning to convert the entire office to Linux. I haven't decided on which distro I will be using for the server, but each of the desktops will be Ubuntu. Everything they do in the office is based off an ancient ms-dos database system (Q&A). Other than that, just your typical word processing (Word), graphical design (Photoshop), and email (Thunderbird ... I've started my infultration slowly :)). These will be replaced by OpenOffice, Gimp, and well... Thunderbird. The dos based database will be eliminated in favor of custom applications that I write on a mySQL backend. Frontend will most likely be web based since I have never done any graphical interfacing in Linux, and can't seem to find any good howto's.

Overall, I think it will be a pretty simple implementation. Initial install should't be bad. I'm going to set up one machine, and make an iso of it. Then copy it to the rest of the systems.

[KiwiNZ]

I have thought about this idea as well Poofy . And after much consideration I believe that as good as Ubuntu is I professionally could not recommend it in an Enterprise situation. There are a number of mature distros out there which are way more suited to the Enterprise environment.

[WildTangent]

I don't know this stuff. Does Dell come with Java and Flash support out of the box? Does HP?
windows XP (all copies, OEM or boxed) comes with java 1.5 im not sure about flash, but i dont recall ever having to install it...but i usually go straight to www.getfirefox.com and forget about IE entirely

-Wild

[ssck]

i suppose no else ever uses stock OS .... you will definitely want want to install some other software and customize it to your liking ....


for the office, i suppose ubuntu (stock version) could just get by in my office.the users are currently using xp pro with ms office.

[poofyhairguy]

Also, I am about to graduate from the University, and will become co-partner in my father's company. After two years, I will be the sole operator. I am planning to convert the entire office to Linux. I haven't decided on which distro I will be using for the server, but each of the desktops will be Ubuntu. Everything they do in the office is based off an ancient ms-dos database system (Q&A). Other than that, just your typical word processing (Word), graphical design (Photoshop), and email (Thunderbird ... I've started my infultration slowly :)). These will be replaced by OpenOffice, Gimp, and well... Thunderbird. The dos based database will be eliminated in favor of custom applications that I write on a mySQL backend. Frontend will most likely be web based since I have never done any graphical interfacing in Linux, and can't seem to find any good howto's..

There ya go. Only Java in that is the free Java that will come with future openoffices.

[gil-galad]

windows XP (all copies, OEM or boxed) comes with java 1.5 im not sure about flash, but i dont recall ever having to install it...but i usually go straight to www.getfirefox.com and forget about IE entirely

-Wild

Java 1.5 does not come with any windows version anywhere, trust me. Some manufactures add it on the computer, however. :)

[WildTangent]

Java 1.5 does not come with any windows version anywhere, trust me. Some manufactures add it on the computer, however. :)
funny...its on the OEM copies we have at work...

-Wild

[nocturn]

Home users want Flash and Java and media files to play, which are all things that make the Ubuntu install you are adding that to "unofficial." Home users are better served by a Linspire or a SUSE.


I don't think Ubuntu is worse for a home user then SuSE or any other, BTW, SuSE does not install Nvidia drivers or proprietary codecs (except MP3) by default.

Most real end-users will have someone installing an OS for them (even Windows), so that person can very easy apt-get all the required codecs.

In the office the lack of Flash/java/games/codecs could be seen as a good thing.


Probably not when you have access to the Internet. Even a lot of official sites do not work without Java or Flash (for menus etc).

What does it lack in the normal install that a regular office user would need?

Well, the big drawback that I can see is the lack of an integrated server system (also Ubuntu) that handles directory services and authentication (perferably LDAP and Kerberos for single signon). They are a pain to set up and manage at the moment.

What is also badly needed is an Exchange killer (there are some projects, but none close to finished).

[nocturn]

windows XP (all copies, OEM or boxed) comes with java 1.5 im not sure about flash, but i dont recall ever having to install it...but i usually go straight to www.getfirefox.com and forget about IE entirely

-Wild

AFAIK, WinXP comes with the Microsoft Java Virtual Machine, which is not entirely compatible with the Sun one (and I think they had a court order to stop using it).

For Java in FireFox (at work), is had to download the JVM and plugins...

[weekend warrior]

Interesting discussion, I'll put my thoughts in. As far as the office, well... first impressions are very powerful and Ubuntu unfortunately blew it with funky brown and half-naked people and this with no professional history to speak of. Companies are conservative by nature, opt for known quantities and don't have time for second guesses. So hmm... funky brown and half naked models from Ubuntu and no history? or your basic blue and years of professional experience backing Fedora Core or Debian? Ubuntu started out on the wrong foot for business and since Fedora or Debian are also proprietary software challenged the employees monkeying online with flash games rational doesn't work.

As for the multimedia, comparisons with Windows and price/features/defaults are simply nonsensical. Users will look around at different linux distros if they're already thinking free, as in gratis. The free as in liberty doesn't mean a jot to users who will never venture into a forum discussion like this. As much as you or I may like the idea of non-proprietary liberty free, fact is these users can and will compare distros as they would a new stereo or dvd player - feature by feature. Ubuntu for me is now, truth be told, a difficult recommendation to make (in fact I've stopped) to these users because of the problems with the add-on cd/zip. Ubuntu is at a severe multimedia disadvantage. Yes they can use ubuntu guide, but with other distros it simply isn't necessary. Yes I can set it up for them but again with other distros this isn't necessary. Like it or not, agree with them or not, legal or not - reality is other distros are offering full multimedia out of the box and they are incredibly easy to install live cds to boot!

Ubuntu is between a rock and a hard place in my view. Business users will go for a known name/history (Red Hat/Fedora, Novell/Suse, Debian) and are probably irked by a half-naked (remember first impressions are hard to break), funky brown distro anyway. Home users who aren't too tech saavy looking for linux will go by simple feature comparison, let's see... Ubuntu - desktop, office and internet stuff... check, plays music... nope, plays movies... no, any cool games? erm.... Hey where are my Windows files?!?!

Now let's see... Mepis - desktop (KDE oh hey cool - looks like Windows!), office stuff (oh hey Adobe cool!) and internet (oh hey Azureus cool!), plays music, yup! plays movies, yes! Any cool games? Tuxracer/SuperTux! oh hey and look I can play that Alien Hominid flash game online too! Woohoo! Oh look, there are my Windows files! Ok I'm sold! Same story for Kanotix. No apt-get/repos card to play here folks, not even dist-upgrade with Kanotix, not that these arguments would mean much to these users anyway.

Ubuntu has got an immense push for being new (a la Gentoo). But 1st year anniversary is coming up which means the honeymoon is over. There may be tough times ahead with distros like Mepis rising (and getting more publicity) for home users, Sarge released, Fedora Core coming together nicely for business and Ubuntu somewhere in the middle, not 'image' ready for business, not multimedia ready for home.

[panickedthumb]

"How will Canonical ever make any money if every Ubuntu box in the world is disqualified for pay support?"

Poofy: that's not necessarily true. You can install anything you want from the universe and not disqualify yourself for support, you just can't get support for the universe software. Basically, you can still get Firefox and Open Office support, for example, but not for software you apt-got from universe

[poofyhairguy]

Interesting discussion, I'll put my thoughts in. As far as the office, well... first impressions are very powerful and Ubuntu unfortunately blew it with funky brown and half-naked people and this with no professional history to speak of. Companies are conservative by nature, opt for known quantities and don't have time for second guesses. So hmm... funky brown and half naked models from Ubuntu and no history? or your basic blue and years of professional experience backing Fedora Core or Debian? Ubuntu started out on the wrong foot for business and since Fedora or Debian are also proprietary software challenged the employees monkeying online with flash games rational doesn't work.


Of the businesses in the world 99+% have never heard of Ubuntu.

Ubuntu has got an immense push for being new (a la Gentoo). But 1st year anniversary is coming up which means the honeymoon is over. There may be tough times ahead with distros like Mepis rising (and getting more publicity) for home users, Sarge released, Fedora Core coming together nicely for business and Ubuntu somewhere in the middle, not 'image' ready for business, not multimedia ready for home.

Wait till people see Breezy's mono support.

[poofyhairguy]

"How will Canonical ever make any money if every Ubuntu box in the world is disqualified for pay support?"

Poofy: that's not necessarily true. You can install anything you want from the universe and not disqualify yourself for support, you just can't get support for the universe software. Basically, you can still get Firefox and Open Office support, for example, but not for software you apt-got from universe

Good to know.

[weekend warrior]

Originally posted by poofyhairguy:
Of the businesses in the world 99+% have never heard of Ubuntu.
Even if they had or will hear about it, they have sufficient reasons to look elsewhere - iconoclast distro vs distros w/ long business tradition. Which makes the multimedia question for home users even more imperative doesn't it.

[poofyhairguy]

Even if they had or will hear about it, they have sufficient reasons to look elsewhere - iconoclast distro vs distros w/ long business tradition.

If they really care about long business tradition, they will use Sun or something.


Which makes the multimedia question for home users even more imperative doesn't it.

Not really...you keep implying Ubuntu has no niche. Its blown the Linux world away by finally taking the hardest edges of Debian- your not going to sell me on the idea that the lack of codecs makes Ubuntu lack a niche.

And as I said before...wait till you see Breezy's mono. Will at least be as good as SUSEs (for free).

[nocturn]

Well, my wife is in the process of starting up a store with a webshop (the webshop will be hosted externally on Linux).
Initially it will have 3 people working there (not fulltime, including herself). They will all have basic stuff like Web access, E-mail etc.

All systems will be running Linux, possibly even all of them Ubuntu (including the servers, for which Sarge was also a candidate).

In any case, this business will be Microsoft free (as is our home), so we will see how well it goes (I feel very good about it).

I really believe that with a good central user management system, a secure file sharing protocol (not NFSv3) and a mail/calendaring server, Ubuntu is *better* suited for the desktop then at least WinXP is, at a fraction of the price ;-)

[weekend warrior]

Originally posted by poofyhairguy
Not really...you keep implying Ubuntu has no niche. Its blown the Linux world away by finally taking the hardest edges of Debian- your not going to sell me on the idea that the lack of codecs makes Ubuntu lack a niche.
And what would keep another distro from taking the edges off Ubuntu? offering multimedia and other apps and blow the linux world away again, stealing away any niche? After all, wasn't there a top dog before Ubuntu? This is what I'm implying.

[rajaiskandarshah]

Sapo....if I was an employer you might have just sold Ubuntu to me...."so my workers can't screw around all day!! Where do I sign up?"

That was my point...
just a little case in point. i helped my friend who has just started his small accounting firm. he has 1 suse, 1 ubuntu and 1 win xp machine respectively. the accounting is done on the suse and ubuntu machines. the win xp machine is a notebook with win xp pre-installed.

he's happy with the setup. and if he needs another machine it will be a ubuntu - because it looks easier to use. with all the proprietary codecs and plugins and drivers installed, of course.

[poofyhairguy]

And what would keep another distro from taking the edges off Ubuntu? offering multimedia and other apps and blow the linux world away again, stealing away any niche?

The niche wouldn't be stolen....the Ubuntu devs now hope that people use Ubuntu as the base for future OSes. Plus your logic

proprietary stuff= is always better

is not the complete truth. If it was....Linspire would be the top Debian based distro.

After all, wasn't there a top dog before Ubuntu?

Redhat. Still is to most. Doesn't mean that Fedora pushes Ubuntu out of the market.

[weekend warrior]

"people use Ubuntu as the base for future OSes" you lost me there.

As far as proprietary, I only state that for some users it's the only realistic option, for say... music or movies - not better or worse. And please keep in mind, it's not my logic. I'm taking the Devil's Advocate stand on this because the debate is interesting, good for the communtiy and because I've seen the advantages to Kanotix or Mepis type approaches - Linspire by contrast simply doesn't enter the equation for various other faults - you should know that :roll: As for Red Hat, I did say that the user I was thinking of was looking for a 'gratis' free distro.

Also I suppose it's good to point out, home users aren't a monolithic block, there are those willing to get their hands a little dirty and those that aren't. Though the willing ones are probably a smaller niche, Distrowatch "statistics" be damned. It's more the clean hands group I was referring to when I stated "not multimedia ready for home".

[N'Jal]

I think of linux sometimes like the christian church, you have your roman catholics, your presbitarians, your baptists, anglicans, united reformed, NFI, Assembleys of God and all the others.

They all exist because they didn't agree with the ethics and morals of other churchs they went to, and create their own, or they feel called to start their own. They each exist because they feel their way is what works for them. It's not like you can make the word of God proprietory. Some church's work together others don't, very simelar to the linux world.

Ubuntu exists because the developers wanted a distro it to exist this way, totaly free, Redhat exists because the developers want a distro to work thier way, mandrake, novel... Etc

This is the way ubuntu works, if the totally free plan fails i am sure that change will happen, but for now all we can do is ues it, or develop it if you are in such circles.

[poofyhairguy]

"people use Ubuntu as the base for future OSes" you lost me there.

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/LaunchpadIntegration?highlight=%28launchpad%29

I quote from it:

This would make it trivial for distributors of desktop suits (Ubuntu as one) to customize this niche of the desktop, as well as spreading this functionality over all flavours of desktops, if this gets wide adoption by the community.

As far as proprietary, I only state that for some users it's the only realistic option, for say... music or movies - not better or worse. And please keep in mind, it's not my logic. I'm taking the Devil's Advocate stand on this because the debate is interesting, good for the communtiy and because I've seen the advantages to Kanotix or Mepis type approaches

Me too. But I also know how it clashes with the philosophy of the Ubuntu devs. Good call on some debate though.


Also I suppose it's good to point out, home users aren't a monolithic block, there are those willing to get their hands a little dirty and those that aren't. Though the willing ones are probably a smaller niche, Distrowatch "statistics" be damned. It's more the clean hands group I was referring to when I stated "not multimedia ready for home".

Those that aren't willing to get their hands dirty aren't willing to install a new OS. Those people won't be served till some big computer maker ships Linux. If its Ubuntu, the computer maker can solve the problem of lack of multimedia readiness.

[weekend warrior]

Launchpad (https://launchpad.ubuntu.com/) is certainly ambitious. That would change things considerably if successful.

Big computer maker? They don't come too much bigger than Hewlett-Packard! You've gone right to where I was thinking. :) Ubuntu is on offer with their laptops in Europe. It'll take some time to see how it goes. One of our community members - Thomas Schneller, may have the inside line on it. If we see him around we'll have to ask or maybe resurrect one of these threads to see if he pops in. Then we can also ask him what he thinks of HP dealing with multimedia.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=35244
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=28410

[poofyhairguy]

Big computer maker? They don't come too much bigger than Hewlett-Packard! You've gone right to where I was thinking. :) Ubuntu is on offer with their laptops in Europe. It'll take some time to see how it goes.

Unfortunately they don't ship those laptops with Ubuntu installed. They ship it with free dos and mail you an Ubuntu CD if you want. Thats just about as good as any of us have (except for guarentees the hardware works).

I've thought about it- those MS license agreements are too powerful...I only thought of one way HP (and only HP) could ship Ubuntu:

Step One: Spin off Compaq again- just enough to make it autonomous.

Step Two: Allow Compaq to **** off MS by shipping Ubuntu on a PC (this will make them lose OEM XP licenses). The is gets Linux on machines...but allows big HP to still sell OEM copies of XP.

Step Three : Profit.

[weekend warrior]

I tried to word that carefully saying it was 'on offer' rather than 'installed' as I do remember asking Thomas Schneller about this and he replied: "It's a compromise between cost and giving the customer something MS tax free". Though it was my understanding it came with the laptop automatically, without having to ask for it. That would make sense, considering HP spent time apparently to tailor ubuntu for their needs.

Makes one wonder why IBM didn't try something with their Thinkpads since they were looking to get out of the PC market anyway. Would they have had much to lose? They lose their XP license deal and are "stuck" with making the linux factor work for them. If it doesn't, they sell off to Lenovo - end of story. Might have worked.

[Optimal Aurora]

I see windows still used in the US and other countries... but in developing as well as countries like China, maybe Japan, and Korea, linux will be better to use in the office. I doubt though that it will ever have a major impact on the office environment.

[jts]

I really believe that with a good central user management system, a secure file sharing protocol (not NFSv3) and a mail/calendaring server, Ubuntu is *better* suited for the desktop then at least WinXP is, at a fraction of the price ;-)


Nocturn...I think you're completely right on the money. Maybe corporate types would stick to the more traditional Linux flavors, but I guarantee that with those above mentioned programs, small businesses would stumble all over themselves to get onto the Ubuntu bandwagon.

I currently mangae an all Win AD environment for my company (30+- workstation and servers). I constantly despise having to pay the MS "tax" (ie. Action packs), while my lonely ubuntu server could host a majority of the typical services we use (Exchange, DHCP, etc). Aside from proprietary VB code (* cringes *), the only other thing stopping me from replacing services to an Linux based system, is a central AD-like security management system. Being able to define policies from a single user interface, create/delete users and groups from a central location, and having them automatically applied to all workstations/servers, just makes my life a heck of a lot easier.
Side note: I've researched OpenXchange to try and replace our current exchange/calendering system, but ran into a few snags trying to get it to work on Ubuntu (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=51685)

I could only imagine how quickly I would adopt a complete central managed security system, if it existed in Linux. Access to the printer server? No problem! User needs a mail account on the IMAP server? No problem. Also, it would need to be all GUI. I respect and appreciate Linux's roots in the command-line world, but for 90% of basic tasks, a GUI can do the job. This is where I think Ubuntu really excels and why I, as a MS based programmer/NT admin, really respect what they have accomplished to date (I started my Linux days with Redhat 6.0).