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oldsoundguy
May 13th, 2009, 07:34 PM
first a reply to ZNUPI

The reason for closed or proprietary drivers for hardware is simple. IF the source was totally open, it would reveal information about the construction of the item. Some card makers want to keep that close to the vest as that is their ADVANTAGE over other card makers. Hence, the UNSUPPORTED drivers from such as NVidia.

Now, the real issue is those card makers that deny the existence of Linux .. such as Creative. I have become very SICK of their inability to even keep up with WINDOWS changes.

And .. for the children that just can't believe anyone over 40 has anything to offer in computing .. I started on an 8088 before a lot of you were even a gleam in your Daddy's eye!!

At 72, I am VERY computer active (although never got addicted to games, per se)
I REPAIR computers as an avocation .. including Windows computers. And my repairs and inoculates WORK as seldom does one come back except when it winds up in the hands of some "all knowing" kid who knows that all that protection is just "slowing him/her down" and disables same.

RealG187
May 14th, 2009, 03:43 AM
what can windows do that linux can't?
bsod

ebanlague
May 14th, 2009, 06:06 AM
As a more recent Windows convert, I must say I miss only two things, and they've already been stated.

Yes, there is gaming on here. Yes, it is free. However I do miss my favourite PC developers, and the handful of Windows games I was in love with, only to find out they don't quite run up to par on WINE. However, with time I may learn to love these strange 'free' games :p

Then there is the Adobe collection. Yes, I know there are equivalents but the CS4 collection was just plain amazing. The noticeables are Photoshop and Dreamweaver. Yes, there is the GIMP but to a beginning user of it it makes me want to throw up. I am yet to find a suitable replacement of Dreamweaver, however, I am trying out Bluefish.

[No, I am not going to run Dreamweaver on WINE. Please don't suggest it.]

Giant Speck
May 14th, 2009, 06:39 AM
[No, I am not going to run Dreamweaver on WINE. Please don't suggest it.]

VirtualBox?

biwright1
May 14th, 2009, 08:06 AM
Sorry dude, I haven't work at linux till now.

xpdt
May 14th, 2009, 11:32 AM
Honestly from what i see until now linux can do whatever we want do! The advantage is, and always will be, the possibility of change linux without need to wait that others do that for us! In the end every one can make their own operative system.

Tibuda
May 14th, 2009, 11:40 AM
Then there is the Adobe collection. Yes, I know there are equivalents but the CS4 collection was just plain amazing. The noticeables are Photoshop and Dreamweaver. Yes, there is the GIMP but to a beginning user of it it makes me want to throw up. I am yet to find a suitable replacement of Dreamweaver, however, I am trying out Bluefish.I always thought GIMP was better for the beginner user that didn't got used to Photoshop, but for Dreamweaver have you tried HTML and CSS?

Znupi
May 14th, 2009, 12:15 PM
As a more recent Windows convert, I must say I miss only two things, and they've already been stated.

Yes, there is gaming on here. Yes, it is free. However I do miss my favourite PC developers, and the handful of Windows games I was in love with, only to find out they don't quite run up to par on WINE. However, with time I may learn to love these strange 'free' games :p

Then there is the Adobe collection. Yes, I know there are equivalents but the CS4 collection was just plain amazing. The noticeables are Photoshop and Dreamweaver. Yes, there is the GIMP but to a beginning user of it it makes me want to throw up. I am yet to find a suitable replacement of Dreamweaver, however, I am trying out Bluefish.

[No, I am not going to run Dreamweaver on WINE. Please don't suggest it.]
About Dreamweaver: If you want to make web pages, gEdit is enough. Seriously.

Lektorvis
May 14th, 2009, 03:43 PM
The major hurdle for Linux and other OS' is that the vast majority of authorities and business operators uses closed MS file-formats in their communication.
So continue the fight for open document formats.
http://http://www.oasis-open.org/who/

Nathan.Flow
May 14th, 2009, 05:03 PM
Not quite true. Although different distributions have different packaging systems (see apt, yum, emerge, pacman, ...), that doesn't mean that a binary file (an executable, if you will) will not run on all of these distributions. If a software vendor wants to make closed-source software, they can easily do so by only distributing binaries and people will package them for the various distros. If they want to make paid software, they can work a little extra on an installer (on which they would have to work on for Windows, too) and provide that to its users. Actually, that's what a lot of companies do. Look at Skype, Opera, Adobe Flash, and so on.

What bugs me the most, though, are drivers. Why will hardware manufacturers not make their drivers open source, so that people can compile them on all architectures and use them any way they want? It's not like if you have the drivers' sources you can make your own device and sell it, or steal anything. And this would also save the manufacturer's time, as he would only need to make open source drivers for Windows, the Linux community would port them in an instant. I don't understand why hardware manufacturers are so keen on not disclosing their drivers' sources, maybe it would show some company secrets, but I don't know..

When I was speaking of versions between Linux. I should have been more forth coming, I was referring to the difference between say BSD and Linux.. No mater tho.
If a company would just release the raw binary on a .. CD let's say and system developers would create a auto package system kinda like windows installer or apt, synaptic, yum, emerge, pacman.. to gather binary and "install" (for simplicity sake) the program. That would work great... of course for the those who still like to build form scratch there's still that option.
The company can save time and resources increasing their profit margins, because the "system" is the end configuratior. This would also almost do away with the 32 bit vr 64 bit problem (meaning there's not a whole lot of push for 64 bit as long as 32 bit OS's still hang around. Also when programmers program they usually use the bitness of the system their programming on. if hey have a 32bit system they'll have 32 bit programs, they need a 64bit system to do both. ) The problem I'm referring to is that it's still hard to find 64 bit versions of 32 bit programs.. (not a big problem because of backwards compatibility..) I just don't like extra library hanging around wasting space.. Even if it's not a lot of space it's still space I want to use for something else..


As for drivers... My original comment is still valid. Marked demand and all..
"Why will hardware manufacturers not make their drivers open source, so that people can compile them on all architectures and use them any way they want? It's not like if you have the drivers' sources you can make your own device and sell it, or steal anything."

If some one wanted to they could make the device cheaper... Kinda like reverse engineering. The major cost of a product is R&D.. If you don't have that cost, then that part of the price is profit, or just less of a price passed to the consumer.

"I don't understand why hardware manufacturers are so keen on not disclosing their drivers' sources, maybe it would show some company secrets, but I don't know.."

Well in the example of NIVIDA™ they have combined the old physics card in to the new cards va software or hard ware which ever. (I remember which) if the consumer could figure this out. (which some have) then you negate some of the perks of the card that would normally cause some consumers to buy it over their competitors..

I'd also like to add some support...
http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/67064.html?wlc=1242398711

CharmyBee
May 17th, 2009, 01:38 AM
Windows can have the greatest things ever like BonziBUDDY, Corkboard, CometCursor, Zwinky, GATOR, CoolWWWSearch. Oh how I miss those. That and 74 aquarium screensavers I must register for animated 2d fish moving on my screen every time I install. You can't do that on Linux. Windoes what Linuxdon't.

RealG187
May 17th, 2009, 01:51 AM
He was serious. I know a math teacher at a university who plays the PS3 all day. He also has a PSP.
PSPs are cool, my math teacher was interested when I used my PSP as a Graphing calculator cuz I had a homebrew program for that.


I think gaming on the PC is pretty outdated. If you really want to play high-quality games with extreme graphics and physics and all the bells and whistles, get a video console. They're relatively cheap nowadays (especially the Xbox360) and if you buy one, you can then spend less money on your PC because you don't need super powerful hardware and you don't need Windows. The only downside I see to consoles is that you don't have keyboard+mouse, but I'm sure you get used to the gamepad pretty quick.

Ya, I think a console is better cuz you have dedicated hardware. Only disadvantage is you have to mod it to play backups. The PS3 can use a Keyboard and mouse from what I know, it has USB ports, as does the PS2 and Wii, but I don't think the software takes advantage of that.

Znupi
May 17th, 2009, 12:10 PM
Windows can have the greatest things ever like BonziBUDDY, Corkboard, CometCursor, Zwinky, GATOR, CoolWWWSearch. Oh how I miss those. That and 74 aquarium screensavers I must register for animated 2d fish moving on my screen every time I install. You can't do that on Linux. Windoes what Linuxdon't.
I hope with all my heart that you are being sarcastic :o.

The PS3 can use a Keyboard and mouse from what I know, it has USB ports, as does the PS2 and Wii, but I don't think the software takes advantage of that.
Yeah, you can connect a keyboard and mouse to it, but you won't be able to play any games using them, like you would on a computer.

Harpie Queen
May 17th, 2009, 12:15 PM
Maybe you should get back on track?

electrovalent
May 17th, 2009, 02:04 PM
ok i just install kubuntu.I have no sound and no video!I believe after so many years of development these two very important things should work.

mmstahlman
May 18th, 2009, 03:35 AM
Blue screen of death, pre-loaded (useless) software, registry errors, needing reloaded due to speed issues over time... list goes on...

I use Win XP for work and have used it for most of my life. I am getting accustomed to Ubuntu and other versions of Linux as a desktop because it has grown leaps and bounds over the past few years and I think it is almost easy enough to use for the "average computer user".

On a serious note, Windows is "easy" for people because it is what they are used to, and most commercial programs work with windows (when windows works at all) "out of the box" because if they don't they won't sell as well. This is what windows can do that Linux doesn't do at the moment. Windows controls market share...

georgegerm
May 18th, 2009, 06:23 AM
51 years old and playing Call of Duty? I guess I did need that laugh :)

But next time when posting please be SERIOUS! :guitar:


dead serious i am, and guess what,, i started with ubuntu and linux in general about a year and half ago....
and an extra secret for and just for you i am not alone there are many people over 50 who do try new things and do not conform to norm, why because they do not fear change and are willing to say i do not know a thing in life so i am willing to learn and have fun while at it.. and hope to evolve in so many different ways till i choke..
that said i suppose most of those above 50 you know are dying, dead and or bored, another secret just for you i am not any of these, nor are my friends.. with that statement remember me when you get close to that age and i hope you are still willing to learn new things about this wonderful life, and experience the freedom to do as you mostly please... by the way s. spielberg is a gamer and he is over 50
cheers your oldie but good friend
mr old fart (ps want to play??)
and in reference to consoles well i rather do all in one place it is just my taste
and thanks to this great community that allows old farts to learn new tricks!!!!!!
):P

monsterstack
May 18th, 2009, 06:35 AM
dead serious i am, and guess what,, i started with ubuntu and linux in general about a year and half ago....
and an extra secret for and just for you i am not alone there are many people over 50 who do try new things and do not conform to norm, why because they do not fear change and are willing to say i do not know a thing in life so i am willing to learn and have fun while i am at it.. and hope to evolve till i choke..
that said i suppose most of those above 50 you know are dying, dead and or bored, another secret just for you i am not any of these, nor are my friends.. with that statement remember me when you get close to that age and i hope you are still willing to learn new things about this wonderful life, and experience the freedom to do as you mostly please...
cheers your oldie but goodie's friend
mr old fart (ps want to play??)
and in reference to consoles well i rather do all in one place it is just my taste
and thanks to this great community that allows old farts to learn new tricks!!!!!!
):P

My step-father is in his late fifties and he came to use Linux simply because it allowed him to tinker with the computer and learn some new things. Since he first came across it a few years ago, he's suddenly found an interest in web development, programming, and server admin type stuff, and all manner of mad geeky things. And Quake 3, too. Somewhat rather religious about that. Still, I owe my Linux use to him. When my kids get old enough I might just have to teach them a few things about how you can mess with computers, too. :)

jago25_98
May 19th, 2009, 01:57 AM
The question for me is

What can Linux do that Windows can't?

Then the answers are alot more interesting.
I can connect to a remote server running FreenetProject.org 24/7, from any computer, rotate the passwords, remote desktop or commandline (very useful over satelite), tunnel the vnc over ssh, compress that connection.
^ and that's just one thing

Trying to do things like this on Windows are a pain because you can't buy a piece of software for every little thing like this. With Linux you know there's probably software out there. Yes it *might* take longer to figure out, but you get so much more control. If it doesn't work, recode it. I did this a small webserver to disable security down a bit and I don't even program! Doing stuff like that is a struggle on Windows no matter how much money you have

- this is because money artificially puts people against each other and other forms of trade don't. A key thing in life to know

Wiebelhaus
May 19th, 2009, 02:01 AM
Catch a virus and release all of your credit card information and log ins for every service you use and loose your level 80 mage raider that you have put three years worth of meaningless gaming time into.



Oh yea and there's more.

mamamia88
May 20th, 2009, 04:09 AM
let me catch up on lost on abc.com

geekygirl
May 20th, 2009, 06:31 AM
georgegerm - just wanted to say you rock ):P I hope to still be playing games at your age for sure! (I am 35 and still gaming) Do you play with the TOG clan? I play with SEG.....


Exactly why I still use Windows - Punkbuster and CoD4 Multiplayer. That is all - if a PB client was available for *nix (the server version is *nix but not the client :o ) then I would switch to *nix forever...

Until then its an nlited XP install now running Litestep and Free Commander instead of the Windows Shell and Explorer - pretty good actually...lol

georgegerm
May 22nd, 2009, 05:31 AM
georgegerm - just wanted to say you rock ):P I hope to still be playing games at your age for sure! (I am 35 and still gaming) Do you play with the TOG clan? I play with SEG.....


Exactly why I still use Windows - Punkbuster and CoD4 Multiplayer. That is all - if a PB client was available for *nix (the server version is *nix but not the client :o ) then I would switch to *nix forever...

Until then its an nlited XP install now running Litestep and Free Commander instead of the Windows Shell and Explorer - pretty good actually...lol

thank you no we are not a clan we are just 4 people actually but we do meet and play together on occasion....too many occasions lol my nick is elfrio
but we better stick to the subject at hand before we get kicked out lol

StevoDevo
May 22nd, 2009, 03:27 PM
Oh yeah! And don't forget the blue screen of death.

But one thing it can do (XP) is share an internet connection without a router. I don't think this can be done on Linux (can it?).

Tibuda
May 22nd, 2009, 03:45 PM
But one thing it can do (XP) is share an internet connection without a router. I don't think this can be done on Linux (can it?).

Do you know Linux got a greater share on servers than on desktops, right? I never done it myself, but I know of Windows PCs networks connecting to Internet through a Linux server.

lykwydchykyn
May 22nd, 2009, 03:49 PM
Oh yeah! And don't forget the blue screen of death.

But one thing it can do (XP) is share an internet connection without a router. I don't think this can be done on Linux (can it?).

Um, yes. It can.

trivialpackets
May 22nd, 2009, 04:39 PM
Probably said, but play Netflix instant view movies. Stupid new silverlight...Jeez netflix, use FLASH!

Sublime Porte
May 22nd, 2009, 04:48 PM
But one thing it can do (XP) is share an internet connection without a router. I don't think this can be done on Linux (can it?).Are you kidding??? This is what Linux actually excels at. In fact there's hundreds of distros purely dedicated to acting as a router. Also you'll find most of the top name routers actually run Linux anyway, Netgear and DLink to name a few. Many cisco routers now run Lknux also, and they are probably the most widespread routers on the 'net.

What you might be referring to though is the limitation in gnome-network-manager to only use one single connection at a time. This is merely a limitation of that particular gui program, not of Linux itself. Drop to a terminal and if you know the networking commands well enough, you can turn your Linux box into a super powerful router.

This is in fact the feature that I first started using Linux for, back long before Windows XP, when you had to use programs like Wingate to share an internet connection via Windows. Also Windows XP internet sharing is a joke. The fact it forces you to use 192.168.0.1 as the gateway address is just ridiculous.

Exciterusa
May 27th, 2009, 10:58 AM
Cater to the mainstream user.

coleyman
May 27th, 2009, 03:47 PM
After reading quite a few of these posts (103 pages is too much for my RAM to handle...the RAM in my head, not my PC) I've come to the conclusion that both Windows and Linux have too many pros and cons for me to choose one over the other at this time. In my heart, it's Linux all the way, but in my head, there are still too many things that I can do easily in Windows that I can't in Linux. I'm too technologically challenged to fix all the bugs that it takes to run certain programs in Linux. It seems to me that Windows (XP) is more friendly on the plug n play playground. At least in the realm of home recording studio apps which is my main concern. I know Linux people hate the idea of the dreaded "Registry" and I can see why, but from what little I know about it, the registry is responsible for all things working together from the word go. So, what I will do is keep running XP on one computer for my recording applications since I already have a lot of the software that I need (this computer will never be connected to the internet because of the security reasons) and have Linux on my home computer for all the things that run more smoothly (internet, Gimp (I have Adobe Photoshop, but like Gimp better), and lots of other things for my enjoyment). All in all, the only thing I need XP for is the recording thing. I wish Linux would do that for me too, but I keep having issues with Jack, Audacity, Ardour etc. The time it would take me to stay on forums to find the fixes for these isn't worth it to me. I know the fixes are out there as I have used them on some things, but the main problem seems to be that all computers are different and XP is more compatible right out of the box.

lykwydchykyn
May 27th, 2009, 04:00 PM
I know Linux people hate the idea of the dreaded "Registry" and I can see why, but from what little I know about it, the registry is responsible for all things working together from the word go.

Pray tell, how did you come to that conclusion?

coleyman
May 27th, 2009, 04:20 PM
He he he. From your response, evidently I heard it from someone else who doesn't know what he's talking about. My son is really good at this stuff and talks with me all the time about different aspects of it, like I understand it or something. He LOVES his Linux. I thought he said something about the registry being responsible for the software working together. Maybe not. My head hurts.:(:):p

RealG187
May 27th, 2009, 05:01 PM
Windows can do this:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=6891542

pallaziol
June 1st, 2009, 01:00 AM
So seriously, when will Netlix instant viewing be available for Ubuntu.

maximonster
June 1st, 2009, 09:20 AM
Windows can get hacked and can become infected by viruses and if there is only Linux hackers and virus makers are bored

WolfyAU82
June 1st, 2009, 04:01 PM
What can Windows do that Linux can't?

hmmmm...

Firstly cost you $500AUD. :icon_frown:
Secondly hog your memory when you could use it for better things. :(
Thirdly **** you off with Blue-Screen-O-Death and errors of incompetence. :mad:
Finally Acts too smart for it's own good. :evil:

Now you can see why I got rid of Windows... :biggrin:

I'd add video editing in, but a MAC can do just as good or better than Windows.

nolliecrooked
June 1st, 2009, 04:11 PM
What can Windows do that Linux can't?

hmmmm...

Firstly cost you $500AUD. :icon_frown:
Secondly hog your memory when you could use it for better things. :(
Thirdly **** you off with Blue-Screen-O-Death and errors of incompetence. :mad:
Finally Acts too smart for it's own good. :evil:

Now you can see why I got rid of Windows... :biggrin:

I'd add video editing in, but a MAC can do just as good or better than Windows.

Macs are overrated.

oldsoundguy
June 1st, 2009, 06:00 PM
What can Windows do that Linux can't?

I'd add video editing in, but a MAC can do just as good or better than Windows.

Serious video editors use a Video Toaster. It is none of the above. Uses an Amiga for it's computer.

bakedbeans4life
June 1st, 2009, 08:12 PM
Windows is the only OS that can find new and unique ways with which to annoy me. Just when you you think you have one problem solved, another one rears it's ugly head.

Linux can be pants but at least it is predictable. If it is gonna suck, it will suck from the start. Windows has a habit of working perfectly one moment then going all kamikaze the next.

Event Viewer can be none too helpful when trying to perform a diagnostic.

"What can Windows do that Linux can't?"

Leave me exasperated.

Giant Speck
June 2nd, 2009, 07:32 AM
Event Viewer can be none too helpful when trying to perform a diagnostic.

This brings something else to mind:

There hasn't been a single time that when a program "stops responding," where Windows has offered any other solution but to close the program. And then when it does have to close the program, it takes ages for it to actually do so.

They should just give me a message that says "This program has stopped responding. What would you like to do?" and then offer the options to either force quit the program or let me wait to see if the program starts responding again.

To be completely honest, I wish there was an application (third-party or otherwise; open-source or otherwise) that allowed me to hit a hotkey and enter the name of a program I want to force quit. It would be a combination of typing Alt-F2 in Ubuntu to bring up the Run dialog, but instead of entering a command, such as "killall firefox," all I would have to do is enter the name of the program (firefox.exe) and it would force quit it.

monsterstack
June 2nd, 2009, 07:42 AM
This brings something else to mind:

There hasn't been a single time that when a program "stops responding," where Windows has offered any other solution but to close the program. And then when it does have to close the program, it takes ages for it to actually do so.

They should just give me a message that says "This program has stopped responding. What would you like to do?" and then offer the options to either force quit the program or let me wait to see if the program starts responding again.

To be completely honest, I wish there was an application (third-party or otherwise; open-source or otherwise) that allowed me to hit a hotkey and enter the name of a program I want to force quit. It would be a combination of typing Alt-F2 in Ubuntu to bring up the Run dialog, but instead of entering a command, such as "killall firefox," all I would have to do is enter the name of the program (firefox.exe) and it would force quit it.

I miss the days when ctrl-alt-delete actually did something useful. How about Powershell? I haven't tried using it, but maybe there are useful builtins for killing applications in there.

Znupi
June 2nd, 2009, 09:10 AM
This brings something else to mind:

There hasn't been a single time that when a program "stops responding," where Windows has offered any other solution but to close the program. And then when it does have to close the program, it takes ages for it to actually do so.

They should just give me a message that says "This program has stopped responding. What would you like to do?" and then offer the options to either force quit the program or let me wait to see if the program starts responding again.

To be completely honest, I wish there was an application (third-party or otherwise; open-source or otherwise) that allowed me to hit a hotkey and enter the name of a program I want to force quit. It would be a combination of typing Alt-F2 in Ubuntu to bring up the Run dialog, but instead of entering a command, such as "killall firefox," all I would have to do is enter the name of the program (firefox.exe) and it would force quit it.
If you're using Gnome, there's a "Force Quit" applet you can put in one of your panels. It works by clicking the applet and then clicking the non responding window. It automatically kills the process owning that window :)

Giant Speck
June 2nd, 2009, 09:12 AM
If you're using Gnome, there's a "Force Quit" applet you can put in one of your panels. It works by clicking the applet and then clicking the non responding window. It automatically kills the process owning that window :)

That's cool, but it'd be more awesome (for me) if there was a Windows app that did that.

Roasted
June 4th, 2009, 02:04 PM
I always liked Windows "add/remove programs."

It really should just be called "remove programs." When was the last time anybody has added anything from within the manager itself?

Plus I like being able to hit F3 (my hotkey for terminal) and quick type "xkill" to nuke a non-responsive program. Every single time, it just magically goes away. In Windows you gotta sit there and wait for it to make up its mind as to what it's going to do, regardless of the fact it'll crash either way.

I like Windows, I won't lie. I use it a lot at work (school district) and I've had decent success with it. But I wouldn't be caught dead using it as my main OS at home. To me, Vista is simply my gaming OS. Some people cringe at me when I have to reboot to get on Counterstrike Source. Oh my gosh! What do you do when you get on xbox? You change the channel on the tv and power on the xbox! I reboot to play games. Console gamers change channels + turn on xbox to play games.

Win.

ImpressMe
June 6th, 2009, 12:06 AM
Run Windows applications. Using Linux is like using the Amiga tens of years ago. You like the OS, you wish you that the software from Windows. An OS is just an OS, it is like a planet without vegetation.

bakedbeans4life
June 6th, 2009, 12:32 AM
Run Windows applications. Using Linux is like using the Amiga tens of years ago. You like the OS, you wish you that the software from Windows. An OS is just an OS, it is like a planet without vegetation.

So you are saying Windows meeds natural manure to grow? Do I need to elaborate further?

Giant Speck
June 6th, 2009, 12:39 AM
You like the OS, you wish you that the software from Windows.

First of all, you left out a word in this sentence, thus making it nonsensical.

Furthermore, I don't need Windows applications to enjoy using Ubuntu or Linux. Sure, having the ability to run Windows applications would make adopting Ubuntu and other Linux distributions easier for many users, but that doesn't mean that Ubuntu or any other distro needs that ability to be a good operating system.


An OS is just an OS, it is like a planet without vegetation.Um... what? The last time I checked, Ubuntu (and Linux in general) had thousands of useful applications.

Tibuda
June 6th, 2009, 12:47 AM
Run Windows applications. Using Linux is like using the Amiga tens of years ago. You like the OS, you wish you that the software from Windows. An OS is just an OS, it is like a planet without vegetation.

I love this quote:

we need to make a success of our own platform on our own terms
if Linux is just another way to run Windows apps, we can't win
OS/2 tried that
(https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MeetingLogs/openweekJaunty/AskMark)

loveandequality
June 7th, 2009, 04:42 PM
Get virus lol


Now that my ipod touch works USB with Ubuntu 9.4 (jailbroken with VLC:D) im good. I can run Jokosher for making songs,kdenlive for videos wich is better than media editor but not as good as imovie in a year it should be just as good they have a 2 month cycle updates.As for games there is WINE but i rather play the games for Ubuntu as they run better on my computer because i dont have a graphics card my dell xps that came with Ubuntu by factory.:popcorn: Im trully satisfy i got more than i ask for so im going to buy a shirt from conical to support:D

PS: I dont give money to monopolies i never had a M$ only Apple MAC but i love freedom and love and equality for all and i want to protect those things i hold dear to me so i try me best. Ubuntu since NOV. 2008

Veteropinguis
June 7th, 2009, 05:04 PM
Play many popular games, run Quickbooks, run Photoshop (as far as I know), sync with a Zune. That said, I'm perfectly happy with it.

A big problem I see that could delay Ubuntu's status as a real contender with Mac OS and Windows is that Ubuntu is a smart, powerful OS. As far as I can tell, most people don't want a smart OS. (I've clarified what I mean by 'most people' at the bottom of the page.) My boyfriend's mom gets confused by Mac OS. Most people will prefer to stick with what they understand, be it Ubuntu, Mac OS, or Windows.

What will make Ubuntu a big contender is when it has better compatibility with programs like Quickbooks. I used Open Office on my Windows install, and it was almost flawless- except when I'd worked for two days annotating a poem for my English class using the 'comments' feature, saved it in the right .doc format, and then had the comments not show up in Word. Little things like that are going to irritate a lot of people.

It does annoy me when I try to explain Linux to people, and they'll be like, "Can it run [Program X, let's say iTunes for this example]?" And I'll explain, "No, but you can use Amarok, which has an interface like iTunes and will sync to your iPod with no problems." And then I get this quizzical look, because the other person is wondering why Ubuntu can't run Windows apps. Yet they wouldn't expect Mac software to work on Windows. It's like people expect Ubuntu to just be a free way of running all their Windows apps. I'm trying to get my boyfriend's dad to switch over to Mint -this guy's laptop runs so slow you wouldn't believe it- and he's said, "Well, can't I just mirror the drive, install Linux, and then put all my programs back on?" I'm trying to figure out how to explain to him that there is going to be a slight learning curve because it's a new OS, and that he won't be able to use his Windows programs though he will be able to use powerful, easy alternatives.

Honestly, I don't really care what OS I use so long as it does what I want it to do. I was sick of my startup programs taking forever to load, and I was sick of my computer gradually slowing down. So, after an attempt at dual-booting, I realized that in the last 3 months I haven't done anything with Windows I couldn't do with Ubuntu. So, in with Ubuntu. Should Windows become a necessity, I don't have a problem with installing it again. I have nothing against Microsoft; I just think that Ubuntu best fits my needs.

georgegerm
June 8th, 2009, 01:34 AM
it can use a linux rescue disk to save its butt, and my data,,
my old xp just crashed badly due to a virus which kaspersky found and tried to clean...
after it (kaspersky) rebooted, my xp sys. was totally screwed,, well guess who comes to the rescue a linux cd just made to save my stuff..
i got all the info i wanted and burned it to dvd...
so windows can be saved by linux and linux needs no rescue from windows
that said i wish i could run my 2 favs on wine COD4 and acdsee pro miss both on my pcs
cant wait to see how much $micro$oft charges for win 7 ultimate in this hard times...
hey any of you bought vista, or a new pc for it? JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA..
yes and some more JAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJAJA !!!!!):P
cant stop i don't know why...
ps. i got a friend who did buy vista he is a funny dude indeed:D

mhawkins2
June 8th, 2009, 02:55 AM
I miss the BSOD, and the boredom. GIMP is fine for the photo editing I do. If I were a professional I would use Adobe and probably a MAC. But then again if I were a professional I probably wouldn't need to edit the photos so much :). For Quicken there is always the web version or one of the many free book keeping programs like GNU Cash. For games I still have one XP boot option, but only because I have not moved my gaming friends to Linux yet.

With Linux I enjoy computing again. I can always find something new to try (yes I distro hop). And with any problem, I know I can find a solution.

NickWilsdon
June 9th, 2009, 08:50 AM
Things we miss on Windows:

1. The ease in which you installed soundcards or printers. On Ubuntu, old creative cards have been a PITA to configure for Skype, some are still not working with the microphone (sound in). Took an 2 page tutorial to get our Canon printers working, not exactly user-friendly.

2. Games

3. Adobe Products - Photoshop/Illustrator/InDesign


Things we really like about Ubuntu:

1. No viruses

2. The repositories - some amazing tools in there

3. Not worrying about licensing issues

4. The community around Ubuntu, these forums have been very helpful in allowing us to cross-over.

BlazeFire247
June 9th, 2009, 09:44 AM
Make videos, and see super annoying Blue Screens of Death.

Darkaiser
June 9th, 2009, 10:04 AM
The only difference is gaming and the user interface

CylnZ
June 9th, 2009, 08:58 PM
Well, from a netadmin/sysadmin standpoint, with winXX you can be forced to continue running/supporting 15 year old main frame > win32 ported crap terminal services student records suites that have been hacked together for so long for so very much money that administration goes into near apoplexia at the very mention of killing the dinosaur. You can continue to yearly license software for winXX, mac, novell and as400. You can see 2/5 long time geek sysadmins disappear this year due to budget cuts and m$ raising the pub-ed licensing. You get to support crap win95 based educational software, more expensive crap mac educational subscriptionware, and last but dearest to our hearts crap/hideous/overpriced/moronic antivirus/security horse puckey ware that could be done for nearly $0 in linux suse servers and ubuntu/debian workstations running the same cross platform os and sw suites on all different hardware. Locked down so the little twerp students, ignoramous teachers and pontificating administration cant install the latest "i love you" virus, itunes subscription, "gee I wonder what these files do ?" foolishness that endusers can perpetrate during your lunchbreak.

What does windows do for me that linux doesnt? .... Well, even though my fans dont run, the video cards have drivers that are getting better, the sound requires some hoop jumping, and scanning requires specific hardware; Linux so far, since I'm giving it another yearly attempt, has not caused me to throw keyboards/toner cartridges/whatever at people who come into my office to ask for more email storage. Yet. And I'm hopeful that it wont.

If I sound bitter and angry you arent around server rooms enough.

CylnZ,
a+, mcse+i+n, cne, cisco1, nortel, novell+, gateway-tsp, dell var, sysadmin/geek since 1994.

H2SO_four
June 9th, 2009, 09:04 PM
run pirated software on pirated software. Not a concern in the Linux community :) (for the most part)

heroidi
June 10th, 2009, 05:52 AM
I recently found my old windows 2000 cd and tried installing it on virtualbox while installing i got this
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4594/screenshotvxp.png
LOL

Znupi
June 10th, 2009, 02:39 PM
I recently found my old windows 2000 cd and tried installing it on virtualbox while installing i got this
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4594/screenshotvxp.png
LOL

By looking at that screenshot I can see that under "OS Type" you chose Ubuntu (because of the icon of the VirtualBox window). Why don't you choose Windows 2000?

heroidi
June 10th, 2009, 10:27 PM
The icon doesn't matter i used to use dsl, slackware, knoppix and even windows xp under virtualbox it doesn't matter really it's just the icon, i LOLd when i saw this

Znupi
June 11th, 2009, 09:14 PM
The icon doesn't matter i used to use dsl, slackware, knoppix and even windows xp under virtualbox it doesn't matter really it's just the icon, i LOLd when i saw this
When setting up a virtual machine you choose the OS Type which also sets the icon. It is (very) important to choose the appropiate OS Type.

Exciterusa
June 12th, 2009, 09:47 AM
This brings something else to mind:

There hasn't been a single time that when a program "stops responding," where Windows has offered any other solution but to close the program. And then when it does have to close the program, it takes ages for it to actually do so.



Wow! I wish I had your luck with linux. I've successfully had many of the same problems with linux as with windows. Black screen of death. Full system lockups requiring hard shut downs. Instant reboots. Desktop that won't load - just wallpaper. Netscape used to be notorious for increasingly eating up memory while it was doing nothing.
They just haven't been nearly as often as with windows.

Giant Speck
June 12th, 2009, 09:52 AM
Wow! I wish I had your luck with linux. I've successfully had many of the same problems with linux as with windows. Black screen of death. Full system lockups requiring hard shut downs. Instant reboots. Desktop that won't load - just wallpaper. Netscape used to be notorious for increasingly eating up memory while it was doing nothing.
They just haven't been nearly as often as with windows.

I didn't say the problems I experience with Windows happen often. However, when they do occur, they can be annoying. I've had my share of Linux problems, too.

Exciterusa
June 12th, 2009, 10:11 AM
I recently found my old windows 2000 cd and tried installing it on virtualbox while installing i got this
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/4594/screenshotvxp.png
LOL


Did you contact your systems administrator? :)

iiiears
June 14th, 2009, 10:02 PM
Win Richard Stallman's support?
Send their CEO into orbit on the international space station?
Give Apple board members apoplexy?
Make new computers filled with nagware?

Torkiliuz
June 15th, 2009, 12:22 PM
To get GIMP more similar to Adobe Photoshop, one can install GIMPshop, which adds some of the commonly used functions in Photoshop to GIMP.

HappinessNow
June 15th, 2009, 01:12 PM
Microsoft Office, Excel, Photoshop, AutoCAD, iTunes, Quickbooks, Powerpoint, etc., etc.

6432crab
June 15th, 2009, 02:36 PM
yeah, i think the most important thing that Linux (specially Ubuntu) can't do are graphical jobs

Znupi
June 15th, 2009, 04:12 PM
yeah, i think the most important thing that Linux (specially Ubuntu) can't do are graphical jobs
It can do them quite well, it's just that professionals are used to the Windows tools and switching to Linux tools is pretty hard.

user_not_expert
June 16th, 2009, 02:40 PM
It can do them quite well, it's just that professionals are used to the Windows tools and switching to Linux tools is pretty hard.

It's not that it's hard to switch, it's more an issue of investment.

Most pros I know have invested a lot of time to using Photoshop and even if a much better program for Windows were published, the user base of Photoshop would not significantly diminish. 20 yrs ago Kodak produced a 'better' airbrush, and despite my advice as a consultant, marketed it to profesionals. It flopped. The division was sold and the new owners re-marketed it to noobs, its still selling. 30 yrs ago Winsor & Newton produced a paint which was a significant improvement on oil paint and marketed it to pros. It flopped. Thankfully it still survives but as a student range and does not use the more exotic and expensive pigments .-(

Most pros don't or don't want to know anything about computers or operating systems, they just want to do what they do. Many older ones complain vociferously about having been forced by the markets to have to learn Photoshop and wouldn't go through all that again unless Photoshop were to fold.

Personally, as a 'fine artist' I dislike the massively over-rated Photoshop intensely, but as the Gimp is determined to be Photoshop for 'nix/'nux, I don't find equivalents for the wonderfully quick 'n dirty Paint Shop Pro or for Painter on Linux .-(

I hope they both work in wine, but if my Wacom Pad does not work in real-time with them, then, for the time being, I'm stuck with a Windoze partition .-(

tiggsy
June 16th, 2009, 08:27 PM
Unfortunately, I have software that won't run in linux. Market Samurai for one, and CamStudio (I've tried GTK-RecordMyDesktop and it isn't as easy to use and has some odd restrictions - like you can't pick up something from the area outside the frame and drag it in for people to see, it just flies straight back out again.

There's also a really good editor called CSE HTML Validator (loads better than gedit even with lots of addons) that won't run in linux and is unstable under Wine. I just installed VirtualBox and I'm going to try it in there.

pjo123
June 16th, 2009, 10:02 PM
It's gaming for me.

I come from a UNIX background and have spent many years playing around with various Linux/UNIX versions.

Up until about a year ago I was happily playing with Gentoo.

Where it falls down in my opinion is that certain things are simply a pain to do under Linux. Yes I can probably get most of my games running somewhat under wine, yes I could probably persevere and figure it out on my own.

In the last week, I decided to give Ubuntu a go. Very impressed to be honest. Out of the box most things just worked such as the Printer.

Prompted to install nvidia drivers which was simply a couple of clicks.

I want to run LOTRO from wine, followed various threads on how to do it. Still having problems. I'm sure someone will come along with a solution very soon (have posted in the wine forum) but this is one of the things that stops the average non tinkering person coming to Linux.

They want their games to simply work.

They want their sound cards to work. Fair enough my soundcard works, but I had to enable IEC958 playback to get it working in my games. I installed Alsa-mixer to do this, I'm sure there's many other ways, but again it's not a simple matter for the non techie to do.

I have a reasonably high end PC. OK it cost more than 5 times the price of a PS3 but I like gaming (I'm 45 by the way) and I want to get the best graphics I can in my games.

I know it's the hardware manufactures and the software writers fault but that doesn't get round the simple fact that on windows 7, a couple of clicks on my sound card manufactures web site and I had the latest sound card drivers installed with a nice interface that makes perfect sense to the novice.

A couple of clicks on my merc stealth keyboard's website and again it's installed with loads of gaming templates available at a couple of clicks.

I can play LOTRO with dX10 shadows etc without a glitch on windows 7. Whether I choose to run it windowed or full screen.

etc etc etc

The biggest problem for me with Linux is while it can do virtually everything as well as windows, as I like gaming with nice surround sound, high end graphics etc, it's still worth me booting into windows for gaming. I also have purchased the CS4 suite and while Gimp may well be good, I've already spent loads on CS4 and while that in it's self wont stop me from learning Gimp, all the tips/tutorials (well 99% of them) in various photography magazines are written for adobe and as I own it, it makes sense that I use it.

So I end up in a bit of a predicament. On the one hand, if I don't intend using CS4 or gaming then I can live with Linux 100% of the time, but on the other, because I do end up gaming at some point each day, because I can do everything else just as well in windows 7 as I can in Linux, I find it not really worth booting into Linux in the first place.

Windows 7 is a very very good op system. I've had zero problems with it, no BSOD's, no problems running any aps etc.

I don't want to have to fork out money and buy windows 7 when my beta runs out, I would much rather run something like Ubuntu. I also enjoy tinkering about so if things don't work out of the box I'm more than happy to tinker. But at the same time, I want to be able to run my games at the same high graphical detail under Ubuntu as I do under Windows. Once that is sorted, I daresay I can learn to live with some of the alternatives to CS4.

brookie
June 16th, 2009, 10:38 PM
the only sw app that does not do well in intrepid ibex but works great in winxp sp3 is skype. the windows version has much better video reception. i've tried all the skype hacks on this forum and skype for linux still lags behind it's windows version. oh well.

Amilo1718
June 16th, 2009, 10:41 PM
There's also a really good editor called CSE HTML Validator
BlueFish?

starcannon
June 17th, 2009, 07:54 AM
Commercial games, that's the list for me.
Other than that, /shrug, theres nothing in Windows for me.

ferretfrank
June 17th, 2009, 05:43 PM
Annoy the crap outta me??!!! ;) :lolflag:

crtlbreak
June 17th, 2009, 11:30 PM
Dont mean to get all philly-sophi-cal but the answer is in the question
"What can Windows do that Linux can't?" ;)

Mosaab
June 18th, 2009, 03:25 AM
When I first starting using Ubuntu I had a heck of a time getting my ATI graphics card and Broadcom wireless to work on my laptop. Even with the upgrade to Feisty I had problems with the ATI card, but was able to fix it. This can be a huge barrier for those trying to switch.

you know ? I guess that varies !
yesterday I installed ubuntu in my desktop and it installed the drivers of NIC, intel VGA & sound, while windows needed the drivers CDs ... I got happy :)

user_not_expert
June 18th, 2009, 08:16 AM
Originally Posted by mwacky
When I first starting using Ubuntu I had a heck of a time getting my ATI graphics card and Broadcom wireless to work on my laptop. Even with the upgrade to Feisty I had problems with the ATI card, but was able to fix it. This can be a huge barrier for those trying to switch.


you know ? I guess that varies !
yesterday I installed ubuntu in my desktop and it installed the drivers of NIC, intel VGA & sound, while windows needed the drivers CDs ... I got happy :)

I find this more and more.

What used to be a barrier for those trying to switch has become a Linux scare myth. now its more a case of swings & roundabouts.

Hopefully the increase in sales of pre-installed Linux machines will begin to rectify this - though wrestling with cups can still be a problem.

starcannon
June 18th, 2009, 09:32 AM
you know ? I guess that varies !
yesterday I installed ubuntu in my desktop and it installed the drivers of NIC, intel VGA & sound, while windows needed the drivers CDs ... I got happy :)

Too true, I just spent 5.5 hours doing a fresh clean install for a client running an old dimensions 2400 machine. The client requires Win XP, they run some very proprietary software and hardware that only MS Windows has been developed for (ADP Automotive stuff). I was sitting there reloading windows, installing service packs, downloading virus updates, eating peanut butter cups, drinking Mt. Dew, thinking, "you know, I could have done all of this in an hour and 45min under Ubuntu and saved this client a whack of money"; instead, I laughed all the way to the bank.

P.S. I have saved this outfit a lot of money by switching them to Open Office, for which they have already been very thankful. Until ADP developes for the Linux platform there isn't much else I can do to save them from themselves; they refuse to accept moderate attempts at security under the Windows platform, they would likely never consider doing their business without ADP.

user_not_expert
June 18th, 2009, 12:35 PM
Leave my bios settings alone at boot instead of treating them like I didn't mean it!

see thread:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1190653

I like Ubuntu to be easy, but I never expected it to nanny me!

oldsoundguy
June 18th, 2009, 05:13 PM
Leave my bios settings alone at boot instead of treating them like I didn't mean it!

see thread:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1190653

I like Ubuntu to be easy, but I never expected it to nanny me!

If you are going to run Windows in any iteration, be it stand alone to VM, ALWAYS create a bios password! Takes seconds, saves hours. Use your NAME, cuz if you forget that, you are in a world of hurt anyway!
(the hardest Windows problem to correct or repair is a bios hack .. sometimes have to resort to unplugging the battery for a day and then re-installing everything.)
(I even password Linux machines .. just makes sense.)

user_not_expert
June 18th, 2009, 10:29 PM
If you are going to run Windows in any iteration, be it stand alone to VM, ALWAYS create a bios password! Takes seconds, saves hours. Use your NAME, cuz if you forget that, you are in a world of hurt anyway!
(the hardest Windows problem to correct or repair is a bios hack .. sometimes have to resort to unplugging the battery for a day and then re-installing everything.)
(I even password Linux machines .. just makes sense.)

Good tip :p

As I've not taken Windows on-line since 98, I haven't bothered with this since my kids were old enough to understand not to mess with the bios and I've never had a problem (or, since 98, a virus :D)

But here's where it gets interesting.

My eeepc is my first portable (other than palmtops) and I intended to set a system password when I finish setting up and before taking it out of the house, but I thought I'd try your advice to see if it solved my wi-fi problem.

Now I've got one serious security issue

If I password the bios (and therefore access to the machine), jaunty still overwrites my bios settings, and also locks the pad and keyboard so I can't enter my user name to get past the log-in screen for Ubuntu.

If I don't password the bios, I can't enter a user password, thereby leaving the machine open to anyone to access.

Hey, Ubies, what the *f**ks* going on here?

(and where should I post this please to get the right people's atention :shock:)

Exciterusa
June 20th, 2009, 01:52 PM
If you are going to run Windows in any iteration, be it stand alone to VM, ALWAYS create a bios password! Takes seconds, saves hours. Use your NAME, cuz if you forget that, you are in a world of hurt anyway!
(the hardest Windows problem to correct or repair is a bios hack .. sometimes have to resort to unplugging the battery for a day and then re-installing everything.)
(I even password Linux machines .. just makes sense.)

Unplugging the battery for a day? Try unplugging the computer, removing the battery and shorting out the battery connections (again make sure the power is unplugged) or just jumpering the clear cmos jumper(make sure it's unplugged for that too).
You might want to be careful about setting a bios password on a laptop. Some laptops have the cmos battery soldered onto the motherboard. Requiring complete disassembly and soldering. I have run into this with laptops before, toshiba comes to mind. The ones that you can remove the cmos battery, make sure you take out the regular battery as well and it should only take 5-15 mins to clear the cmos. Why would you have to reinstall everything after clearing the cmos?

Password protecting the bios doesn't just make sense. If I have physical access to your machine, a bios password gives me little inconvenience. A bios password only keeps the honest people honest.

user_not_expert
June 20th, 2009, 03:36 PM
Password protecting the bios doesn't just make sense. If I have physical access to your machine, a bios password gives me little inconvenience. A bios password only keeps the honest people honest.

On the eeepc, setting the admin bios password lets you set the user password, then when you power-up you are immediately asked for the user password. Its enough to put most people off from casual messing.

Anyone stealing it could just replace the hd, but replacing the CMOS chip or cracking the bios would seem a bit more techy to most people.

Passwording the os log-in is fine with Unix or Linux, but seems a bit of a joke with Win.

loweehahn
June 21st, 2009, 06:55 PM
Gaming, video editing and photo editing. Although ubuntu comes with GIMP but it's not as powerful as Adobe Photoshop. But I wouldn't mind much because if you are going for games why not go for Xbox or Playstation? You can play tons of games without installation like in Windows. As for photo editing and video editing, I suggest you go for Mac if you are serious in these.

kuppalli
June 21st, 2009, 08:15 PM
only one thing support for notepad++

georgegerm
June 22nd, 2009, 02:33 AM
well one that does bother me a bit or better said quite a bit the lack of canon printer drivers (ip 3500) for ubu as compared to the quality support under window$ and yes i know there is a japanesse site for canon drivers and linux but, simply put it never prints as well as in linux as in windows period, (not even half as good...
so my advice if you buy a printer make sure they have linux driver support of the highest level and not some mickey mouse driver for letters (i get around by doing pdf and mailing them and printing under window$ 7 rc1)

trungd_t
June 22nd, 2009, 05:31 AM
well one that does bother me a bit or better said quite a bit the lack of canon printer drivers (ip 3500) for ubu as compared to the quality support under window$ and yes i know there is a japanesse site for canon drivers and linux but, simply put it never prints as well as in linux as in windows period, (not even half as good...
so my advice if you buy a printer make sure they have linux driver support of the highest level and not some mickey mouse driver for letters (i get around by doing pdf and mailing them and printing under window$ 7 rc1)

How right you are. I also learned the hard way for Canon MF4370dn. It also doesn't work with other business printers that requires domain permission.

-Citrix ICA not working for me like it does on Windows.
-PPTP doesn't always work with wireless interface. Hardwire works fine.
-Photoshop/Lightroom is still my preference over GIMP. Can't afford a Mac.
-Of course, big name games. Not all has $$ for separate game console(s).
-TurboTax :)

canadian
June 27th, 2009, 09:59 PM
Installing programs like flash and printers are far easier in windows. I like linux but the flash issues are to much. It should not be so difficult to get flash to work and flash should not slow down whole computer.

Too bad as I like linux but with flash and my printer not working I need an OS that will do the job, I hate XP but everything works with ease.

Tibuda
June 27th, 2009, 10:32 PM
Installing programs like flash and printers are far easier in windows. I like linux but the flash issues are to much. It should not be so difficult to get flash to work and flash should not slow down whole computer.

Too bad as I like linux but with flash and my printer not working I need an OS that will do the job, I hate XP but everything works with ease.

I can't see how Flash is harder in Linux, and the printer depends on the manufacturer. Lexmark is a pain, but HP is a breeze.

rbtpt512
June 28th, 2009, 12:00 AM
BlueFish?

CSE HTML Validator is really a site validator, not an editor. And it purports to do MUCH more (way more picky about the correctness of the code) than the W3C 'real' validator is. It also costs ~$75.

I like Bluefish on Ubuntu, and I like HTMLPad 2009 Pro (paid for) in XP, too. Tidy is way easier to use, though, with HTMLPad 2009 Pro, IMHO. Took me about an hour, or two, and I ported the site (http://www.constitutionpartyofwa.com) I manage from HTML 4.01 Strict to XHTML 1.0 Strict.

But I've got an Intel 855GM video chipset in my laptop, which won't be supported, accelerated, in any MS OS later than XP. So, I have to switch, eventually, because Ubuntu DOES support the 855GM accelerated.

philcamlin
June 28th, 2009, 12:02 AM
make you so mad you kill your pc because of bsod's

viruses

etc... :) ubuntu ftw :D

GUESS WHO
June 29th, 2009, 02:54 PM
run a LOT more programs than linux:lolflag:

GUESS WHO525
June 29th, 2009, 03:19 PM
Window lets you work with most of the programs that your gonna need in your life. or want. but i personally prefer ubuntu cause its got more stuff but when you run a windows program with wine you get defects!=D>

moodle
June 29th, 2009, 04:51 PM
Run Notezilla, my favourite stickynotes programme on the planet.

Print from my Epson printer without using excessive amounts of ink.

Check ink levels in my Epson.

Go into standby and still let me use wireless.

Let me use visual effects on my less-than-one-year-old PC.

See my other post: 3 Fundamental Problems with Ubuntu (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1198253&highlight=fundamental+problems).

ticket
June 29th, 2009, 08:06 PM
- Full screen flash video in Ubuntu is too darn slow.
- Flash 3d also fares very badly (e.g. www.runescape.com)
- Compiz interferes with DVD and flash playback

I expect these have already been noted.

Pity a lot of this is down to a closed source (Adobe).

Is there page collecting all these shortcomings together?
(maybe put them in the OP's 1st post)

mwillams73
June 30th, 2009, 02:25 AM
No, you're overestimating it: PC games are big. I don't know if you consider 1.1 "multi-billion," but okay... console and portable software sales were 6.2, more than five times as much.

Here's a more recent press release about the NPD groups' 2006 findings (http://www.npd.com/press/releases/press_070119.html): So, no, as of 2006, PC gaming was a multi-million-, not multi-billion-dollar industry.

First off, your study is wrong!! Thoses statistics are not just for games themselves but also the hardware for consoles thats why they are so high!!(as you so kindly showed us by posting the actual numbers and what they were counting) Secondly if you compare the sales of PC hardware for upgrades for pc games I bet that those numbers would be close to even!! Think about it You buy more ram for games, You buy a bigger monitor for games, you buy a bigger hard drive for games, Nvidia graphics cards and ATI cards for games. Why isnt hardware figured in for the PC statistics ? Cause they dont want you to know that top of the line gaming rigs cost more than consoles!!!! It cost close to 500 bucks for me to build my rig and it was all used parts! but i can play alot of games with it if im using windows XP, but now that im on linux all that money goes to waste!! Why would i spend a lot of money to upgrade components so i can play games and then switch to an OS that cant utilise my upgrades ?(well atleast my box looks slick but Nexuiz plays better on windows with the same hardware than it does in linux!)

My point is this: I play games, half of my friends play 3D hardcore shootem up racing simulation type games, the other half just play card games and simple puzzle games, so for me its a half and half situation. You cant put consoles and software up against just PC software its inherently unfair and it doesnt factor into the equation unless you also include the hardware upgrades that you would need to play similar games on the PC.

That so called study was blatantly in favor of console gaming or they would have included hardware sales in their figures on behalf of PC games, But they didnt, they counted console hardware sales and console software sales but then only counted PC software sales! So stfu and gtfo or deal with it!! PC games and PC's would far out sell by the numbers all consoles if you did a real head to head comparison. If you dont believe me think of it this way, Are there any consoles that cost over a thousand dollars?( without game prices included) No of course not, no one would buy a console alone for that amount of cash, but If you want to play hardcore games on a pc youre gonna put down a grand easy just for the comp! Then figure in that all the top game titles for PC cost about the same as they do for consoles ..... well you do the math, im pretty sure that console gaming and PC gaming would be a lot closer in sales figures!

Now to the actual point of the thread, the only thing i miss is WMP 11(only for ripping and adding album art and song/artist/album titles automagically, it always got my entire collection right the first time) but i recently found a program called DB Power amp that runs in wine and in fact on their site stated that it did in fact work in wine, so I tried it and now im not missing anything. Well.. except Doom 3, Tom Clancy's Splinter Cell Pandora Tomorrow, The Elder Scrolls III-Morrowwind, Gunman Chronicles, Star Trek Voyager Elite Force, Final Fantasy VII, Blade Runner The Game, Decsent 3, Mugen Tournament, Need For Speed III Hot Pursuit, Nexuiz cause it plays way better in windows, Alien Arena cause it also plays way better in windows, so on and so forth you get the picture.

But now that ive acquired another PC im gonna make that one my full time gaming rig, Yay!! And since you dont need the internet to play games no more viruses, spyware and malwareYay !! I pee all up in your poool!!!!!!

mwillams73
June 30th, 2009, 03:02 AM
Sorry i forgot to include the actual sales figures and the quotes by aysiu, so here they are


Quote:
Originally Posted by blazercist View Post
you are all underestimating the multi billion dollar windows gaming industry

No, you're overestimating it:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wikipedia
The NPD Group tracks computer and video game sales in the United States. It reported that as of 2004:

* Console and portable software sales: $6.2 billion, up 8% from 2003[2]
* Console and portable hardware and accessory sales: $3.7 billion, down 35% from 2003[2]
* PC game sales: $1.1 billion, down 2% from 2003[3]

PC games are big. I don't know if you consider 1.1 "multi-billion," but okay... console and portable software sales were 6.2, more than five times as much.

Here's a more recent press release about the NPD groups' 2006 findings:
Quote:
PORT WASHINGTON, NY, January 19, 2007 According to leading marketing information provider, The NPD Group, U.S. retail sales of video games, which includes portable and console hardware, software and accessories, generated revenues of close to $12.5 billion, exceeding the previous record of $10.5 billion set in 2005.

Retail sales in the PC game software industry showed signs of growth, with revenues up one percent, exceeding $970 million in 2006, bringing the total console, portable and PC game industry close to $13.5 billion, an 18 percent increase over the previous year, and a 15% increase over the previous record achieved in 2002.
So, no, as of 2006, PC gaming was a multi-million-, not multi-billion-dollar industry.
Unquote-

Its my personal opinion that aysui is underestimating as is the NPD Group, There is not only potential but also proof that If they had included PC hardware sales in regards to gaming as well as PC software sales that PC would have atleast come up even against The consoles.No where in that quote do they( the NPD Group Who ever they are) mention PC hardware but in fact they do mention Console hardware and portable software. This leads me to the conclusion that they are really really stupid or this NPD Group doesnt really know what they are talking about.

If you include console hardware then you have to include the manufacturers of every PC ever made that can play games period, otherwise youre comparing apples to oranges as it where. Am I wrong here? I dont thinks so, how much of that revenue was only from the actual console sales, There was no mention of that! They didnt seperate hardware from software as they should have and did do with regards to PC's and games. How much of that revenue was only from portable software ( which by the way is not only games but also applications) We know how much the pc software revenue was at that time ( of course being 3 years ago im sure those numbers have grown) PC software was 970 million dollars, so i wonder what would happen if we take Consoles out of the equation? and base it on what it shoud have been based on in the first place Games!!!! Not hardware , not consoles, not applications, Games!!!

If your going to post up some information atleast make sure that it doesnt make you look like an ***. I dont blame The NPD Group, their study really has nothing to do with it other than someone who in their desperation to prove others wrong posted it and didnt really take the time to think about what they were posting. Im sure in the context that they ( The NPD Group) were only reporting sales figures as per what ever their instructions were. But those figures do not properly reflect the argument at hand. if anything they cause more suspicion and through no fault of their own missinform others who may not realise that those figures are not in any way facts but used as ammunition to further propagate a flame war between those who hardcore game and those that do not.
This is mwillams signing off for the night, stfu and gtfo or deal with it you pansies. Gaming is here to stay, And though it may not be important to you it is to others so stop fighting about something you dont even care about you TROLL you!!!

Flymo
June 30th, 2009, 08:53 AM
Very few things that we need, it seems - after (is it really?) over two years of running dual-boot on all of our family PCs. :p

It took a while to get there, I started trying Linux around 10 years ago, gave up in frustration at the time - first successful set-up was a (then new) SuSE 10 installation for design CAD, still running today, very good except for the weirdness of YAST, etc - much prefer Ubuntu tools.

There are now 12 machines in the family group, to my surprise. And as the aged Sysop for all of them, I simply could not support that many Windows machines over such a wide geographical area. Too much work keeping them protected from the the internet and running reliably in the hands of the average user.

Windows runs viruses best! Oh yes. World's most popular virus host, favourite of the bot-nets that plague the web. Seen some real nasties on supposedly protected machines.

But what can Windows do (usefully, for us) that Linux can't?

I sometimes miss my old 'Dance of the Planets' astronomy suite - a true classic, but wait! :twisted:
DOP will not run under XP. Shock, horror. So now it runs in DosBox under Linux - does need a US keyboard since our DosBoxen get confused by non-US keyboards. We do have a few of those around the house. Some fine old games to be had, if you like that sort of thing.

Having acquired the skills for QEMU and KVM in February this this year we now have a tiny XP virtual image that seems to run any Win XP stuff we have tested just fine - without exposing MS code to the wild internet - connection is disabled. Perfect compromise.

Looking back, it seems that we have run it zero times between March and June...... So, whilst we recommend it to others, we seem not to have much use for it ourselves.

My wife does prefer the Win version of Spider Solitaire - but it runs under WINE on her Ubuntu 8.04.2 system, no problems.

There would appear to be no serious things that Windows can now do for us, and this is reflected in our last four PC purchases - they just run Linux.

Your Mileage May Vary - that's what makes it fun. :lolflag:

errigalmarten
June 30th, 2009, 01:38 PM
Windows can run a lot of my games and apps that Ubuntu cannot, even under Wine. And those that Ubuntu can run under Wine, Windows runs them more easily. That's about it, really.

bonkadventure2
July 1st, 2009, 02:36 AM
Well, executable files don't work with Ubuntu, which could branch off the a lot of things. Wine doesn't really work, Lol.

Tibuda
July 1st, 2009, 11:26 AM
Well, executable files don't work with Ubuntu, which could branch off the a lot of things. Wine doesn't really work, Lol.

huh??? Open your /usr/bin folder and you'll see tons of executables files. Or are you talking about Windows executables?

Bobsteroni
July 1st, 2009, 01:22 PM
I just been wondering what other users have found that windows is able to do that linux (more specifically ubuntu) cant do...

so far the only thing i have found that i cant do anymore is gaming and a few online videos dont work sometimes

also, add anything to the list that makes one better or worse than the other, such as linux being practically virus free

How bout "installs easilly AND actually works afterwards"?

Before you all go blowing my head off, I am way pro-open-source, but my experience with Ubuntu so far (9.04) has been instabilities, completely frozen machine, unexpected reboots by the dozen, loss of keyboard and all around general frustration. Since Saturday, I've had to reinstall twice. Granted, my detective skills are not as great as some of the veterans but I have to say its been a minor nightmare.

All 'evil empire' talk aside - I've never had this much problem with windows. Ever.
Just sayin'.

Tibuda
July 1st, 2009, 02:19 PM
How bout "installs easilly AND actually works afterwards"?

Before you all go blowing my head off, I am way pro-open-source, but my experience with Ubuntu so far (9.04) has been instabilities, completely frozen machine, unexpected reboots by the dozen, loss of keyboard and all around general frustration. Since Saturday, I've had to reinstall twice. Granted, my detective skills are not as great as some of the veterans but I have to say its been a minor nightmare.

All 'evil empire' talk aside - I've never had this much problem with windows. Ever.
Just sayin'.

That's your experience that is greatly influenced by your hardware.

moodle
July 1st, 2009, 07:38 PM
That's your experience that is greatly influenced by your hardware.

It's true that hardware can hinder Ubuntu, but most people installing Ubuntu already have hardware - they don't build their own PC or buy a new PC especially for the purpose.

See my thread here for more hardware frustrations:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1198253

chngr
July 2nd, 2009, 10:06 PM
If there is one thing Windows can do, that is the *suspend*.
I think I never gonna be able to suspend in any linux distrubiton.

Khrimzunn
July 2nd, 2009, 10:52 PM
Well the only thing I can personally say is Photoshop not running natively. I haven't tried trough WINE yet (I'm running Ubuntu for my fourth day today and I love it). But other than that, it's the obvious gaming. I've tried WINE, but it's not working for me.
EDIT: Windows can also crash and give you cryptic errors that never make sense. Or on Vista it can easily report a problem and give you a manual on how to install drivers, which you seem to be lacking.

chessnerd
July 3rd, 2009, 05:22 AM
Other than games and professional applications, Windows also has System Restore which has saved my system several times after I was messing around in areas that I shouldn't have. The only thing that I can do when I screw up Ubuntu is backup files and do a fresh install, and it's a good thing that I don't keep any important files on Ubuntu because on my recent fresh install I forgot about one of my folders and lost the documents.

So, what can Windows do that Linux can't? Keep my files safe from myself.

SeanOScare
July 3rd, 2009, 10:49 AM
I think gaming is the most important for a lot of people. Also a lot of professionals miss Photoshop.

Once you get the hang of GIMP the world of photo editing is your oyster. I believe user convenience doesn't prepare you very well for using any other programs of a similar nature that you may encounter. I can say getting my head around GIMP has prepared me well for using programs with a variety of features, but require more complexed methods of utilizing them.

georgegerm
July 6th, 2009, 01:34 AM
Once you get the hang of GIMP the world of photo editing is your oyster. I believe user convenience doesn't prepare you very well for using any other programs of a similar nature that you may encounter. I can say getting my head around GIMP has prepared me well for using programs with a variety of features, but require more complexed methods of utilizing them.

i cannot agree more, yet i have a negative tendency towards the gimp it is simply not the friendliest of pic editing software, but due to this it does prepare your for other not so friendly progs out there...
so a consequence of it being difficult is that i have learned to deal with diffulties, (i think lol)...
yet i wish i could use a simpler piece of software thats free and not so difficult and not have to use wine (as for example photo filtre which does run on wine)
that all said whoever works with it (the gimp), and masters it, has my respect
plus theres a zillion pages of help for it online so maybe i am too lazy or too dumb, or both..

gdawe5
July 6th, 2009, 05:00 AM
I'd probably agree, with most - it's great for gaming.

user11
July 7th, 2009, 06:35 AM
Windows can allow you to add a PCI video card and disable the on board one (where the dumb bios doesn't give an option). It's the one problem I have never seen a Linux user solve anywhere.

leonbuntu
July 8th, 2009, 07:59 AM
did you know?

i have a external usb 500gb for data. 300gb used up.

i made a folder in ubuntu on this external hd, i cannto delete it in windows vista :-(

but i can delete it in ubuntu.

guess what, when i use vista, i can see the folder has not been deleted? but when i am in ubuntu, its not there?

:mad:

i had to buy another 500gb external usb, i copy al my 300gb to the new hd, then i format the old 500gb with the stuck folder :lolflag:

any1 know why i cannot delete a folder created in ubuntu using windos?
yes, seems like a security issue, but annoying, as i want to keep my extenal 500gb clean.

Roasted
July 10th, 2009, 02:43 PM
did you know?

i have a external usb 500gb for data. 300gb used up.

i made a folder in ubuntu on this external hd, i cannto delete it in windows vista :-(

but i can delete it in ubuntu.

guess what, when i use vista, i can see the folder has not been deleted? but when i am in ubuntu, its not there?

:mad:

i had to buy another 500gb external usb, i copy al my 300gb to the new hd, then i format the old 500gb with the stuck folder :lolflag:

any1 know why i cannot delete a folder created in ubuntu using windos?
yes, seems like a security issue, but annoying, as i want to keep my extenal 500gb clean.

The only thing I can think of is root owned the external hard drive folder and you were simply right clicking - delete in an attempt to deleting it... when at this point you'd have to change the ownership THEN you can freely delete it. Just a thought. I had this issue when I tried to recover data from a Mac G5 within Ubuntu. Once I changed ownership I could view the data and copy it off. I'm not saying this WAS the problem, but it's a thought.

David Ostrom
July 10th, 2009, 06:34 PM
Run crappy!:lolflag:

Dommel
July 12th, 2009, 05:38 PM
Windows can run my primary monitor in portrait mode (1200x1600) and my second monitor in landscape mode (1280x1024).

After many, many hours of trying and configuring I don't think this will ever work in linux, especially with my Ati HD4870x2 :(

ssri
July 12th, 2009, 06:57 PM
Have working video drivers (proprietary or not) for my chip that automatically detect signals coming from my TV, projector, etc. Further, I can seemlessly switch between them. In order to give presentations or lectures, I always have to reboot to my windows partition. I managed to get some of this functionality to work in kubuntu, but I had to jump through a lot of hoops that, to me, seems to be quite backward in this day and age.

vinutux
July 12th, 2009, 07:33 PM
Gaming And some improtent apps like photoshop............

anyway not a fault of ubuntu..........creaters of those apps and game-makers need focussed here more..........

alliance1975
July 13th, 2009, 05:18 PM
Windows can do quicken, turbotax, sony-ericsson modding software. Windows has up-to-date drivers fro my ATI express 200m video card. Windows has Firefox 3.5 that works with flash.

vinutux
July 13th, 2009, 05:25 PM
Windows can do quicken, turbotax, sony-ericsson modding software. Windows has up-to-date drivers fro my ATI express 200m video card. Windows has Firefox 3.5 that works with flash.

firefox 3.5 worked with flash in linux too...

doas777
July 13th, 2009, 05:27 PM
accurate fan and CPU temp control. lm-sensors is a joke.

Viva
July 13th, 2009, 05:31 PM
Windows can do quicken, turbotax, sony-ericsson modding software. Windows has up-to-date drivers fro my ATI express 200m video card. Windows has Firefox 3.5 that works with flash.

I'm running firefox 3.5 without any flash problems.

Ekeluo
July 14th, 2009, 01:20 AM
**Ventis MediaMonkey** Nuff Said

Tipped OuT
July 15th, 2009, 07:05 PM
Run popular commercial software, and have quality drivers for hardware (in general).

cowboyup6983
July 16th, 2009, 03:52 AM
well i havent used ubuntu in a while but im pretty sure magicjack still doesnt work with ubuntu. and netflicks instant streaming, i think. maybe it does since netflicks works now with firefox.

mynameinc
July 16th, 2009, 05:31 AM
In order:
10.Have a chokehold on the market, despite a better alternative
9.Become overwelmed by the number of building permits for Bill Gate$' house
8.Release a new version that almost every user sees as worse than the previous
7.Crash frequently
6.Get malware (some for Linux, but the threat is very small)
5.Make money for Bill Gate$ (maybe Linux can do that...)
4.Popular software (Wine can help with a lot of that)
3.Registry errors
2.Be the subject of malware television ads claiming to fix registry errors
1.Paint (GIMP will never be the same as Paint... *sniff* *sniff*)

vinutux
July 16th, 2009, 07:02 AM
In order:
10.Have a chokehold on the market, despite a better alternative
9.Become overwelmed by the number of building permits for Bill Gate$' house
8.Release a new version that almost every user sees as worse than the previous
7.Crash frequently
6.Get malware (some for Linux, but the threat is very small)
5.Make money for Bill Gate$ (maybe Linux can do that...)
4.Popular software (Wine can help with a lot of that)
3.Registry errors
2.Be the subject of malware television ads claiming to fix registry errors
1.Paint (GIMP will never be the same as Paint... *sniff* *sniff*)




good............good.............good.:p

mackra
July 17th, 2009, 05:27 PM
My fax...getting my modems to work has been a royal pain. I'm just about to the point of punting the hardware modem and going with a internet based system.

georgegerm
July 20th, 2009, 02:00 AM
is been said often that windows specific software cannot run on linux, yet some of it does run in wine ,, but to expect paidware to do so well i do not know seems counter productive to the linux mentality ,, now i certainly do not mind if it could, i just do not think it will ever will,, in this sense it seems linux can do most of what windblow$ does and for free, one has to search for the alternatives and be prepared to learn and adapt to the linux ways...
and very important one most be willing not to spend MONEY LOL, and to sleep better, knowing he/she has no pirated software on his system (for example).
of course windows has great software YOU pay a lot of money for it indeed!!! and if you do not pay you run the risk of being called a criminal!!
winblow$ 7 is going to be a good win version i know i have tested it and it is very good it puts vista to rest forever, that said i will not install it,, why the price!!! it is not worth that kind of money as long as i have a copy of xp for games etc. and linux to do the rest...(ps you know they are going to charge almost double for the european version of the same product, SHAME,SHAME)
i am not against windows accomplishments (they have done amazing things) but i am fed up with their brutal money greedy ways...
so linux does not run everything ok i agree this thread shows that point, but darn it runs a lot and if not perfect well darn near,,
this community has to stay free and sharing,,
and threads like this i can only make our resolve better (i cannot program but i can contribute in other ways)
the penguin has a place for all of us in his tux heart!!
and canon i am not buying any more printers from ya till you make drivers for linux that are just as good as the ones you make for micro$oft
so be it, win7 you may be good but you are not needed
your nice atheist down the road

cooper77z
July 20th, 2009, 02:13 AM
I don't think there is anything that Linux can't do that Windows can. Especially if one is a programmer, which I am not. I can understand why some programmers hold back some of their work from Linux, because their work is their livelihood. But I haven't found Ubuntu to be limiting in anyway, more like liberating. I just wish I was a programmer.

YMS_1975
July 25th, 2009, 08:12 PM
is been said often that windows specific software cannot run on linux, yet some of it does run in wine ,, but to expect paidware to do so well i do not know seems counter productive to the linux mentality ,, now i certainly do not mind if it could, i just do not think it will ever will,, in this sense it seems linux can do most of what windblow$ does and for free, one has to search for the alternatives and be prepared to learn and adapt to the linux ways...
and very important one most be willing not to spend MONEY LOL, and to sleep better, knowing he/she has no pirated software on his system (for example).
of course windows has great software YOU pay a lot of money for it indeed!!! and if you do not pay you run the risk of being called a criminal!!
winblow$ 7 is going to be a good win version i know i have tested it and it is very good it puts vista to rest forever, that said i will not install it,, why the price!!! it is not worth that kind of money as long as i have a copy of xp for games etc. and linux to do the rest...(ps you know they are going to charge almost double for the european version of the same product, SHAME,SHAME)
may i suggest to you,, copy all the paid software you need that runs on xp as they will probably make for windows 7 upgrades that only will run on it and not on xp windows 7 modus (i will not put it past them to do so) thus making you fork out more dinero!!
i am not against windows accomplishments (they have done amazing things) but i am fed up with their brutal money greedy ways...
so linux does not run everything ok i agree this thread shows that point, but darn it runs a lot and if not perfect well darn near,,
this community has to stay free and sharing,,
and threads like this i can only make our resolve better (i cannot program but i can contribute in other ways)
the penguin has a place for all of us in his tux heart!!
and canon i am not buying any more printers from ya till you make drivers for linux that are just as good as the ones you make for micro$oft
so be it, win7 you may be good but you are not needed
your nice atheist down the road

Microsoft can charge whatever their hearts desire for Windows 7. Not that it matters really. It's already cracked and on the torrents. LOL. And while I believe their official launch date is mid-October of this year, news reports indicate that the code itself has been completed. But either way, if they do make any major changes between now and mid-October (which I doubt because it was reported in the news that Microsoft already distributed licenses and the software to countless hardware vendors), whatever changes are made will also be cracked and shared on the torrents. ROFL. Sorry. I just find Microsoft's attempt at being aggressive towards piracy and vigilance towards it to be rather comical. No matter what type of security measures they put in, it just gets cracked so easily.

Microsoft is really out to lunch when it comes to what consumers want. It's bloatware. They say that Windows 7 is faster. To be honest, I don't know. I didn't test it out. I only have Vista on my laptop because I can't get my TomTom GPS software to run under WINE. :(

See : http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1018673 :)

geobz
July 25th, 2009, 10:57 PM
I don't think there is anything that Linux can't do that Windows can. Especially if one is a programmer, which I am not. I can understand why some programmers hold back some of their work from Linux, because their work is their livelihood. But I haven't found Ubuntu to be limiting in anyway, more like liberating. I just wish I was a programmer.

That makes two of us.

ZOOstation
July 26th, 2009, 02:57 AM
"What can Windows do that Linux can't?"

Run mainstream software. Catch viruses. Take forever to load. Crash completely without warning.

hansdown
July 26th, 2009, 03:44 AM
Windows has the distinct ability to pucker up, and provide a deep, soulful kiss to any cross-eyed, tongue-flicking executable that clambers over the horizon.

Huh? What? I must have .....fallen asleep.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain!

KinKiac
July 26th, 2009, 04:06 AM
those videos you should copy the addresses for them and use mplayer at the command prompt, it's more likely to tell you what the problem is, more than not a missing dll or problematic codec.



I don't think gaming is that important to most people, only the very loud and the early adopters. once we're past this phase you'll find most new users don't play games or find the games available in Linux to be superior in the types of games they play (puzzle games etc)

I dont think you are talking about the same type of people. This may be the case with new "Linux users" but we are not talking about what "linux users" think is better or what have you, but rather what Windows has over Linux in general. There is a large segment of computer users that are so called "hardcore gamers". I used to be on the verge of being one of these. Examples of my favorite games - COD series, Splinter Cell series, C&C series, Assassins Creed, Bioshock, Left 4 Dead, Resident evil series, SoCom, Diablo, etc etc. We're not talking about guys who like to play mahjong or minesweeper here. Those are mini games that can be played your cell phone. While I dont play games on the PC anymore(I find my xbox360 console superior even if it is only that I dont have to dish out cash to upgrade to get the newest game to work) I know a lot of guys who do game on PC. These are guys(and girls sometimes) that will dish out $1000 - $4000 every few years on a gaming PC(or at least and upgrade). One of the guys I work with has a liquid cooled quad core with 4gig of ram and an nvidia 9800GT in a torture rack box with over a terabyte of storage in his PC not to mention a media centre box with another terabyte or so which streams media to his TV. The next PC he builds(the guy refuses to buy pre built) is going to be running dual 9800's on a single display and maybe 8gig of ram or so. These guys dont mess around when it comes to gaming and they will not go anywhere near a Linux box. Its just the way it is and it will not change until the major game developers start making games with "linux" in the system requirements.



It's not that it can't do certain things, it's just that those certain things weren't written to be run under the Linux kernel, they were written specifically for Win32.

I think thats exactly it, especially when it comes to gaming. They were just not designed to run on linux, although if the developers wanted to they could probably port them over. They seem to do it just fine with the consoles anyway.

georgegerm
July 28th, 2009, 11:07 PM
I dont think you are talking about the same type of people. This may be the case with new "Linux users" but we are not talking about what "linux users" think is better or what have you, but rather what Windows has over Linux in general. There is a large segment of computer users that are so called "hardcore gamers". I used to be on the verge of being one of these. Examples of my favorite games - COD series, Splinter Cell series, C&C series, Assassins Creed, Bioshock, Left 4 Dead, Resident evil series, SoCom, Diablo, etc etc. We're not talking about guys who like to play mahjong or minesweeper here. Those are mini games that can be played your cell phone. While I dont play games on the PC anymore(I find my xbox360 console superior even if it is only that I dont have to dish out cash to upgrade to get the newest game to work) I know a lot of guys who do game on PC. These are guys(and girls sometimes) that will dish out $1000 - $4000 every few years on a gaming PC(or at least and upgrade). One of the guys I work with has a liquid cooled quad core with 4gig of ram and an nvidia 9800GT in a torture rack box with over a terabyte of storage in his PC not to mention a media centre box with another terabyte or so which streams media to his TV. The next PC he builds(the guy refuses to buy pre built) is going to be running dual 9800's on a single display and maybe 8gig of ram or so. These guys dont mess around when it comes to gaming and they will not go anywhere near a Linux box. Its just the way it is and it will not change until the major game developers start making games with "linux" in the system requirements.




I think thats exactly it, especially when it comes to gaming. They were just not designed to run on linux, although if the developers wanted to they could probably port them over. They seem to do it just fine with the consoles anyway.

you sound like a hardcore gamer to me lol... xbox type
have no fear i am one also, i love my cod4 waw....
but honest it is not going to happen,, in my experience linux users know the uses of their distro quite well (well in general)and do not expect to run games that are NOT made for linux to run on their computers...
there may be some new linux users that expect winblow$ games to run on it but i think they are few and far between....
i wish i could run my games on ubu or any other distro and the prog. would writte such games for linux also, but thats dream land..
however simple it may sound gaming is an anti linux issue for a lot of pc users,, regardless of xbox, etc, etc alternatives,,,
and to say it does not turn people off linux is nonsense,,, it does,,
i have the friends to prove it !!!
me i go for the dual boot option, and use xp pro for gaming...

plurworldinc
July 30th, 2009, 03:56 AM
Ok i got one, Pro video editing !!!!

I am working on a netbook with Ubuntu 9.04 and a laptop with Mint ( which is based off of Ubuntu). Mint is just an eassier way to help my family to get use to a windows free world in our house.

Sadly I have one computer still set up with Windows XP, because I couldn't find any video editing software that was as good or even close to the pro software I was running under windows ( Sony Vegas and Adobe).

Plus for my mega system I can"t figure our how to make everything work under Linux and I really want to because it is a wonderful multi monitor system with a sweet sound card added for kicks.

In the end I will keep just this one computer Windows, and invet in a new Systems 76 Mad Dog, beefed up to wha I need in life, dual booted with Ubuntu and Mint. maybe a few more OS for kicks.....

mmix
July 30th, 2009, 05:07 AM
many activex enabled web-sites in south korea.
say, board games which uses acitvex-powered client.

http://www.netmarble.net/

tsuchang
July 30th, 2009, 05:05 PM
That's an easy question to answer.
Run programs right out of the box.
When you install windowz it works, you don't have to recongigure a bunch of stuff to get sound working.
It looks your system over and will run with the hardware/drivers you have or goes to get them if it doesn't have them.
Is user friendly.
want more?
I am soooo sick of this system, If I wasn't such a parsimonious okd bugger I'd go buy windoz. But I'm cheep and need the frustration to keep my heart beating so I will stick with this aggravating os for a while longer.

Oh, and I really got pi..angry when I read on the forum last night the reason I couldn't find my posts about getting help to get world of warcraft working because they were being deleted by someone who thought that I knew I should post them on the wine forum. jeepers!!! How the ding dong should I know that? #%^#!% ^@&^$& @^%&#^* it anyway!

TeoBigusGeekus
July 30th, 2009, 05:08 PM
Just read my signature...

georgegerm
July 31st, 2009, 02:54 AM
That's an easy question to answer.
Run programs right out of the box.
When you install windowz it works, you don't have to recongigure a bunch of stuff to get sound working.
It looks your system over and will run with the hardware/drivers you have or goes to get them if it doesn't have them.
Is user friendly.
want more?
I am soooo sick of this system, If I wasn't such a parsimonious okd bugger I'd go buy windoz. But I'm cheep and need the frustration to keep my heart beating so I will stick with this aggravating os for a while longer.

Oh, and I really got pi..angry when I read on the forum last night the reason I couldn't find my posts about getting help to get world of warcraft working because they were being deleted by someone who thought that I knew I should post them on the wine forum. jeepers!!! How the ding dong should I know that? #%^#!% ^@&^$& @^%&#^* it anyway!

yes windblow$ runs software out of the box thats meant to run on it (most of the time anyway, to run out of the box i believe is intented for hardware, but thats another issue) why becuse it was written for it as linux progs that were written for it run in linux.....
the main issue for you to consider here is not to try to get a square peg in a circle hole (it may work with force), but to get the proper piece ie. a linux prog that does basically the same thing the windows prog you are leaving behind (and maybe payed for!!!)
it is that simple, ubu will not become windblow$ free version thats just a no way scenario...
ubu tries and does very well what it sets out to do, among other things give you the freedom to choose free software over payware for basically the same uses, purpouses.....
it is NOT a win clone!!!
and yes at times it may require some work, and learning on our part to get things going the way you feel comfortable ...
but those are the points you get to learn somethings, customize to your hearts content, and PAY NOTHING for this...
wow not bad at all i say...
it is not "out the box" at times, but it is free, and darn good if not better than windblow$...
and NO you do not need to lower your expectations but if anything to raise them as the ubu and linux quality in general is outstanding...
so you posted in a wrong forum .... hey heck no one is perfect, you were led to the right forum.. case closed or??
we are all here to learn other ways that free us from the windblow$ ways, it is possible and it is happening
this is a caring, sharing community

Giant Speck
July 31st, 2009, 06:09 AM
we are all here to learn other ways that free us from the windblow$ ways, it is possible and it is happening
this is a caring, sharing community

Speaking for everyone FTL.

Yiftos
July 31st, 2009, 03:08 PM
I just been wondering what other users have found that windows is able to do that linux (more specifically ubuntu) cant do...

so far the only thing i have found that i cant do anymore is gaming and a few online videos dont work sometimes

also, add anything to the list that makes one better or worse than the other, such as linux being practically virus free

Yes, Games are important! Considering that last Christmas, All electronic games sold at record levels and everything else didn't during a recession.

But I'm in the minority and games are not my top priority. However, I am concerned about the flash plugin Move-networks which used to work fine with firefox/ubuntu until Microsoft got it hands on it. So far I have not found an good alternative option with LINUX. Emulation does not work.

If all entertainment (IPTV, etc.)goes that way and games. Linux desktops for personal use is in Jepordy. I would hate to see such a thing happen because I enjoy the freedom Ubuntu give me.

Linux000
July 31st, 2009, 04:27 PM
Ubuntu NEEDS a faster web browser. I don't know if it is my computer, flash, or firefox, but I have to use window$ for internet.

oldsoundguy
July 31st, 2009, 04:33 PM
Ubuntu NEEDS a faster web browser. I don't know if it is my computer, flash, or firefox, but I have to use window$ for internet.

It is your machine or your connection. I have 7 machines on line .. two Windows and 5 of various Linux builds -- two hard wired and 3 wireless. The Linux machines are blazingly fast. The Windows machines (XP) take forever (to even LOAD the browser, yet alone USE IT)

Tipped OuT
July 31st, 2009, 04:41 PM
It is your machine or your connection. I have 7 machines on line .. two Windows and 5 of various Linux builds -- two hard wired and 3 wireless. The Linux machines are blazingly fast. The Windows machines (XP) take forever (to even LOAD the browser, yet alone USE IT)

Web browsers such as Firefox and Opera are slower in Linux, for whatever reason. Fact. Not opinion.

Viva
July 31st, 2009, 07:09 PM
Web browsers such as Firefox and Opera are slower in Linux, for whatever reason. Fact. Not opinion.

Not on my computer, No. Opera is definitely slower, but Firefox is super fast compared to windows.

PreviousN
July 31st, 2009, 07:12 PM
For one, utilize All features of exchange servers.

RaderCad
July 31st, 2009, 07:58 PM
"What can Windows do that Linux can't?"

Run mainstream software. Catch viruses. Take forever to load. Crash completely without warning.

LOL enough said.

About driver support, even nvidia has driver support now, however I have not been playing games in Ubuntu. I still use WinBlow$ Vista for that, actually only for that.

We pay for a very good all-in-one protection suite that actually works for vista. Funny but we use all the Open Software for WinBlow$ that we need or can use. This way we can sleep at night.:o

I have installed BackTrack4 in my other hard drive and will re-partition and install Ubuntu 9.04 on it again. It crashed trying to upgrade to 9.10. A try-boot system but I really have to have BackTrack4, it is an obsessive need. I am an old guy with a degree in physics and one in computer science (programming / security) and decided to get my feet wet again. Actually I fell in over my head but I am now swimming nicely. Let's see WinBlow$ do what BackTrack4 does. :P

sudo su

Lolo Uila
July 31st, 2009, 11:44 PM
That's an easy question to answer.
Run programs right out of the box.
When you install windowz it works, you don't have to recongigure a bunch of stuff to get sound working.
It looks your system over and will run with the hardware/drivers you have or goes to get them if it doesn't have them.
Is user friendly.
want more?
LOL! Windows works? Considering you don't run Windows, you apparently are out of the loop. Windows does NOT "work" out of the box. There is a multi-billion dollar industry built around Windows support to help people make it work. Most people switch to Linux after getting frustrated by how poorly Windows works.

And even if you can get it working, it will not stay working for long. Windows has a nasty habit of crashing and burning for no apparent reason (and then you have to pay people like me to recover your data and fix it).

And let's not forget the wonderful Windows security that has more holes than Swiss cheese. Tell someone who's computer is full of viruses how well Windows works.

While Linux is not perfect, it is usually easier to make it work than Windows, and once you get it working, odds are it will stay that way.

People who have the most trouble with Linux are people who try to turn it into Windows. You need to get out of that Windows mind set and stop trying to run Windows software on Linux. Find native alternatives for your software and learn to use the terminal and scripts more.

In many ways Linux is actually easier than Windows, but it is different so you have to break that Bill Gates brainwashing and start to think Linux.

So what can Windows do than Linux can't...? I'd say the major areas where Linux lacks now is video editing and games. I dual boot or boot another system for the few times I need to do something like that, and usually am reminded of why I left the Windows world because Linux just works so much better.

Tipped OuT
July 31st, 2009, 11:51 PM
LOL! Windows works? Considering you don't run Windows, you apparently are out of the loop. Windows does NOT "work" out of the box. There is a multi-billion dollar industry built around Windows support to help people make it work. Most people switch to Linux after getting frustrated by how poorly Windows works.

And even if you can get it working, it will not stay working for long. Windows has a nasty habit of crashing and burning for no apparent reason (and then you have to pay people like me to recover your data and fix it).

And let's not forget the wonderful Windows security that has more holes than Swiss cheese. Tell someone who's computer is full of viruses how well Windows works.

While Linux is not perfect, it is usually easier to make it work than Windows, and once you get it working, odds are it will stay that way.

People who have the most trouble with Linux are people who try to turn it into Windows. You need to get out of that Windows mind set and stop trying to run Windows software on Linux. Find native alternatives for your software and learn to use the terminal and scripts more.

In many ways Linux is actually easier than Windows, but it is different so you have to break that Bill Gates brainwashing and start to think Linux.

So what can Windows do than Linux can't...? I'd say the major areas where Linux lacks now is video editing and games. I dual boot or boot another system for the few times I need to do something like that, and usually am reminded of why I left the Windows world because Linux just works so much better.

Just because you had a bad experience, doesn't mean everyone has had one too. Speak for yourself, not for everyone else.

By the way, some computers do work "out of the box" for Windows, like my laptop.

Viva
July 31st, 2009, 11:54 PM
Just because you had a bad experience, doesn't mean everyone has had one too. Speak for yourself, not for everyone else.

By the way, some computers do work "out of the box" for Windows, like my laptop.

No, he is right. Most computers don't work out of the box in windows. The experience will be awful if you don't install drivers of some sort, not that it will be any better after:p

georgegerm
July 31st, 2009, 11:54 PM
Speaking for everyone FTL.

point taken,,, i am here..................
sorry

Tipped OuT
August 1st, 2009, 12:03 AM
No, he is right. Most computers don't work out of the box in windows. The experience will be awful if you don't install drivers of some sort, not that it will be any better after:p

Well I guess my computer, my dads, my friends, and my little brothers are all just one hit wonders and you two are all knowing. Yep. Only explanation.

I agree, most computers don't work "out of the box" with Windows, but to say none work at all just ignorant.

And of course if you mean "the experience will be awful" by having to use outdated drivers, well of course. You think when you install Ubuntu you get the latest and greatest? And don't forget Ubuntu makes a new release every couple of months, so they are able to stay more up to date then Windows.

Everything else you said was just fanbosim.

Lolo Uila
August 1st, 2009, 12:09 AM
Just because you had a bad experience, doesn't mean everyone has had one too. Speak for yourself, not for everyone else.

By the way, some computers do work "out of the box" for Windows, like my laptop.
I speak for all of my customers. I work in tech support and spend most of my day fixing Winblows problems for people.

I'm glad your laptop is working now... it will not stay that way.

Viva
August 1st, 2009, 12:27 AM
Well I guess my computer, my dads, my friends, and my little brothers are all just one hit wonders and you two are all knowing. Yep. Only explanation.

I agree, most computers don't work "out of the box" with Windows, but to say none work at all just ignorant.

And of course if you mean "the experience will be awful" by having to use outdated drivers, well of course. You think when you install Ubuntu you get the latest and greatest? And don't forget Ubuntu makes a new release every couple of months, so they are able to stay more up to date then Windows.

Everything else you said was just fanbosim.

I think you're trying too hard to be non-fanboyish that you're missing the point. As for the "new release every couple of months" argument, one of the major criticism of windows is that Microsoft take too long to release a new version.

Tipped OuT
August 1st, 2009, 12:51 AM
I speak for all of my customers. I work in tech support and spend most of my day fixing Winblows problems for people.

I'm glad your laptop is working now... it will not stay that way.

Says who? I had this laptop since 2003/2004 running Windows XP. Not a thing has changed. Just because you're "tech support" doesn't mean you're right. I've dealt with some dim witted Windows tech support before. I'm not saying you are though, just making a point sir.


I think you're trying too hard to be non-fanboyish that you're missing the point. As for the "new release every couple of months" argument, one of the major criticism of windows is that Microsoft take too long to release a new version.

Okay, what ever floats your boat man.

Unscatheddave
August 1st, 2009, 04:36 AM
Aren't most 'out of the box' windows machines actually setup by third party vendors such as Dell? They tend to have fixed the errors which would occur with a normal windows install, which is why they tend to come with a recovery disc/partition so it can be rolled back to their settings. Windows is full of errors and compatibility issues, hence the quick release of windows 7, but Linux is not flawless.

Tipped OuT
August 1st, 2009, 06:18 AM
Aren't most 'out of the box' windows machines actually setup by third party vendors such as Dell? They tend to have fixed the errors which would occur with a normal windows install, which is why they tend to come with a recovery disc/partition so it can be rolled back to their settings. Windows is full of errors and compatibility issues, hence the quick release of windows 7, but Linux is not flawless.

Well my computer is a HP. I hate Dell. It doesn't have any recovery tools or whatever. It's just a regular old laptop. I still love her though, working perfectly and kicking butt on games.

Doctor Debian
August 1st, 2009, 06:21 AM
Linux badly needs easy to use, yet feature-filled video editors such as Adobe Premiere. I see future in PiTiVi, however.

Giant Speck
August 1st, 2009, 06:22 AM
Well my computer is a HP. I hate Dell. It doesn't have any recovery tools or whatever. It's just a regular old laptop. I still love her though, working perfectly and kicking butt on games.

I'm getting ready to buy an HP. As much as I love my Toshiba, they don't make affordable laptops with nVIDIA graphics cards.

magh-87
August 1st, 2009, 06:25 AM
I just been wondering what other users have found that windows is able to do that linux (more specifically ubuntu) cant do...


Cause fights on a forum about what features are better/worse than others simply based on their own experiences

thearkive
August 1st, 2009, 06:44 AM
Well, I had ubuntu running on this old machine and I couldn't for the life of me get the soundcard to work. I tweaked all kinds of settings but none got it to work. It's an old ISA soundcard btw. It works in XP, after I found the drivers for it ofcourse. And wouldn't you believe it, its a driver for ME. I don't know how that works, but it does.

user11
August 3rd, 2009, 11:36 PM
Send text messages through AIM.

sunbear
August 3rd, 2009, 11:44 PM
Attend an online Webex conference.

gripper
August 4th, 2009, 04:09 AM
Anyone in our family can plug in their camera card and upload not only the jpegs but also the .mov files and "view" them in Picasa, which is organized in folders chronologically by year, date and description. Not by some quirky timeline thing in F-spot. Digikam will show movies with Movie Player but also lacks in organizational simplicity. When you have hundreds of photo's, Picasa is the only program that really makes sense of it all. Too bad Picasa under wine does not accept .mov's. The supposed work around is buggy as hell.
This is the only real reason I still dual boot with XP.

BoyOfDestiny
August 4th, 2009, 04:47 AM
Windows can:

Refuse to install without contacting Microsoft.

Disable an install at a whim.
http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/191275/microsoft_blames_wga_meltdown_human_error

Install updates without your consent.
http://windowssecrets.com/2007/09/27/03-Stealth-Windows-update-prevents-XP-repair

Disable a driver without your consent (for better or worse.)
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/security/0,1000000189,39288393,00.htm

Disable audio output without your consent.

Degrade or block video playback without your consent.
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.txt

Run on just x86 and amd64 architectures.

Let 1000's upon 1000's of viruses and rootkits proliferate, including botnets.

Pass on the idea that software such as itself is acceptable, and that mediocrity is good enough, that stable means "mostly stable".

Make apologists point out Windows is great because it can "run" software and drivers MADE for it...

running_rabbit07
August 4th, 2009, 05:00 AM
Vista can fill a 1gig RAM stick while idling. No wonder new machines have to come with 3 or 4 gigs of RAM. I recently loaded Debian for a short time and it idled at a measly 130meg of RAM, Ubuntu hanges out around 200meg @ idle for me.

XP can help me waste time sitting waiting for it to boot, because it takes about five minutes to finish loading and updating the virus protection then it wants to restart and try again without me clicking OK. Thank goodness that my machine boots Ubuntu by default so when MS does that I don't have to look at it again for a while.

Why do I still have windows installed? All of my college training aids such as CISCO, A+, Network+, and Server+ require me to use their disks that are for Windows only.

larsenguitars
August 4th, 2009, 06:15 AM
Windows can Blue Screen.
And have constant explorer crashes.
I cannot emulate this on Ubuntu.
What a pity.
[Blows up Sarcasm Detector].

Tipped OuT
August 4th, 2009, 07:29 AM
Windows can Blue Screen.
And have constant explorer crashes.
I cannot emulate this on Ubuntu.
What a pity.
[Blows up Sarcasm Detector].

Yeah I know! On Linux you only get crummy kernel panics and wifi failing here and there. ](*,)

georgegerm
August 5th, 2009, 12:39 AM
Yeah I know! On Linux you only get crummy kernel panics and wifi failing here and there. ](*,)

i do not know if you call this a kernel panic but i decided to do a clean install from hardy to jaunty and after all the updates etc. i have a frozen firefox on jaunty way to often ...
now what do you call this i do not know buts it is also a sort of blue screen in my mind and it does require a reboot!!
i did learn something by the way if its not broken do not fix it.... (hardy was doing just fine!!!)
this is on my second pc which is an oldie.. but as mentioned was running just fine with hardy (athlon 2400, 1gb ram, 60 pata disk, nvdia ti 4200)

briguy
August 5th, 2009, 06:39 AM
http://xkcd.com/619/


Just sayin'

running_rabbit07
August 5th, 2009, 03:51 PM
http://xkcd.com/619/


Just sayin'

Funny site.

Chronon
August 6th, 2009, 12:01 PM
It's my favorite webcomic!

Sockerdrickan
August 6th, 2009, 01:46 PM
What can Windows do that Linux can't?
BSoD

edit: nope not even that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tibpZifRHmk

grizzler
August 6th, 2009, 01:55 PM
Drive my scanner and my TV card.

I hate it when Linux doesn't have the right drivers... :(

Dullstar
August 8th, 2009, 04:00 AM
It can suck, crash, and BSOD.

Chame_Wizard
August 8th, 2009, 03:36 PM
Drive my scanner and my TV card.

I hate it when Linux doesn't have the right drivers... :(

Blame the companies.

gjoellee
August 8th, 2009, 03:53 PM
Windows can:

-Use flash smoothly
-Use java smmothly
-Use IE natively
-Run most games natively
-Get viruses more easily :P

Anxious Nut
August 8th, 2009, 03:53 PM
get any unexpected VIRUSES!

running_rabbit07
August 9th, 2009, 03:33 AM
It is your machine or your connection. I have 7 machines on line .. two Windows and 5 of various Linux builds -- two hard wired and 3 wireless. The Linux machines are blazingly fast. The Windows machines (XP) take forever (to even LOAD the browser, yet alone USE IT)

Firefox on my XP is a lot faster than FF3.0 on Ubuntu and faster than FF3.5 on my Fedora though the FF on Fedora is faster than the FF on my Ubuntu. I must say that all three though noticeably different speeds aren't enough to make them a decision maker when choosing between OSes. Fedora has my vote for best looking FF though.

running_rabbit07
August 9th, 2009, 03:35 AM
get any unexpected VIRUSES!

But the viruses are expected by Windows users, that's why they slink to the free virus protection when knowing said freeware is weeks behind on coverage.

Katalog
August 9th, 2009, 03:40 AM
I admit to not having read all the responses, but here's one thing Windows can do that Linux can't: Produce a nice blue screen with code on it that you can't decipher unless you're an MCSE (and sometimes not even then).

running_rabbit07
August 9th, 2009, 03:55 AM
I admit to not having read all the responses, but here's one thing Windows can do that Linux can't: Produce a nice blue screen with code on it that you can't decipher unless you're an MCSE (and sometimes not even then).

Gotta love Hexidecimal.

windows-killer
August 9th, 2009, 04:08 AM
Blame the companies.

blame the users and their licensing preferences!

grizzler
August 9th, 2009, 04:59 PM
Blame the companies.
Doesn't change anything if I do...

Tibuda
August 9th, 2009, 10:31 PM
blame the users and their licensing preferences!

No, no, no. See Nvidia.

gripper
August 10th, 2009, 12:11 AM
I admit to not having read all the responses, but here's one thing Windows can do that Linux can't: Produce a nice blue screen with code on it that you can't decipher unless you're an MCSE (and sometimes not even then).

Does anyone get the BSOD anymore since using XP?
I used to get the Blue Screen in 98, but since I've upgraded to XP years and years ago, I've never had a BSOD rear it's ugly head. Even with loading and unloading umteen programs, screwing with partitions and dual booting with several versions of Linux.

j.bell730
August 10th, 2009, 12:14 AM
Does anyone get the BSOD anymore since using XP?
I used to get the Blue Screen in 98, but since I've upgraded to XP years and years ago, I've never had a BSOD rear it's ugly head. Even with loading and unloading umteen programs, screwing with partitions and dual booting with several versions of Linux.

Yes, in fact. Before I made my box pure Ubuntu, I'd get at least one every week, on Windows XP.

Giant Speck
August 10th, 2009, 12:18 AM
Does anyone get the BSOD anymore since using XP?
I used to get the Blue Screen in 98, but since I've upgraded to XP years and years ago, I've never had a BSOD rear it's ugly head. Even with loading and unloading umteen programs, screwing with partitions and dual booting with several versions of Linux.

I've only had a BSOD once, but that was mainly my fault because I was trying to use a USB TV tuner in Windows Media Center without installing the drivers from the included CD first.

pdwOnline
August 10th, 2009, 11:01 AM
The ultimate reason why I still use Windows (beside ubuntu) is that enables me to run stuff like Adobe CS4 (dreamweaver) and of course Visual Studio. Nothing on Linux comes close to that..(unfortunate)

grundlestain
August 10th, 2009, 01:37 PM
I also cannot share wireless internet connection with the nic card.
example= desktop connected with wireless usb to internet, and want to share internet with xbox wired to the desktop. this works easily in xp, and vista, but nobody can explain how to accomplish this in a way that works. firestarter wont share in the right direction, and any of the other tutorials dont seem to take into consideration that the nic may not be the internet connection.

Johii
August 10th, 2009, 02:26 PM
I also cannot share wireless internet connection with the nic card.
example= desktop connected with wireless usb to internet, and want to share internet with xbox wired to the desktop. this works easily in xp, and vista, but nobody can explain how to accomplish this in a way that works. firestarter wont share in the right direction, and any of the other tutorials dont seem to take into consideration that the nic may not be the internet connection.

This can be done in ubuntu as well, but it is not as easy as point and click in windows, you have to write a line or 2 your self.

pempem
August 10th, 2009, 05:47 PM
games and apps. go more n windows.

jadhav333
August 10th, 2009, 06:47 PM
Windows can run Autodesk 3dsMax.. and many such softwares.. I wish Linux could do that..

argor
August 11th, 2009, 04:29 AM
and of course Visual Studio. Nothing on Linux comes close to that..(unfortunate)
for me personally MonoDevelop comes close http://monodevelop.com/
it best suport for c#
but also supports these MonoDevelop integrates features similar to that of NetBeans and Microsoft's Visual Studio such as Intellisense, source control integration, and an integrated GUI and Web designer. MonoDevelop integrates a Gtk# GUI designer called Stetic.[3] It currently has language support for C#, Java, Boo, Nemerle, Visual Basic.NET, CIL, Python, Vala, C and C++.

roharme
August 11th, 2009, 04:51 AM
Gaming Gaming and Gaming.
I miss it a lot in Ubuntu.
When ever i start the system, there is a big dialemma to choose whether Windows or Ubuntu.
because anytime my mind changes to Gaming for Programming.

e24ohm
August 11th, 2009, 03:57 PM
engineering software, and electrical engineering software that I need. Oh, and the video encoder to encode the format for my Sanza Fuze player. Funny how the player supports .ogg and .flac files, but does not support the open standards on video...odd.

Katalog
August 12th, 2009, 02:58 AM
Gaming Gaming and Gaming.
I miss it a lot in Ubuntu.
When ever i start the system, there is a big dialemma to choose whether Windows or Ubuntu.
because anytime my mind changes to Gaming for Programming.

I know it's been said before, but with the amount of games out there for consoles these days I still don't uderstand why this is still such a big deal. I haven't been a big PC gamer in years and own a PS3 and a 360, so I guess I just don't see what it is that the younguns are missing out on since I don't keep up with it any more.

georgegerm
August 12th, 2009, 05:15 AM
I know it's been said before, but with the amount of games out there for consoles these days I still don't uderstand why this is still such a big deal. I haven't been a big PC gamer in years and own a PS3 and a 360, so I guess I just don't see what it is that the younguns are missing out on since I don't keep up with it any more.

uhhhh...
i wish there was an easy comment here... think NOT,, but i shall give it a try..
not all the young ones (or the old ones like me) have a console or 2 for games !!!
some are comfortable playing on their pc and want to have to have it that way,, an all in one pack...
do not ask me why i cannot tell ya but i am one of them, and i can afford a console but do not want one...
as far as i know the pc games industry is doing quite well so i guess i am not alone...
to offer the console option is nice but not a complete solution since so many gamers use their pcs with windblow$ on it and will keep it that way (human nature maybe, the fear of changing to a console,, money ???...
personally i dual boot to deal with this....
but a console is indeed an option, for some

ngrieb
August 13th, 2009, 09:02 PM
Um sadly... most high-end video games, and there is no way to view Shockwave apps without WINE. :(

deadbeatdrum
August 13th, 2009, 11:03 PM
I didn't mind Windows 2000, I tolerated XP......then along came Vista.

Vista may not be as bad an operating system as portrayed in the popular press, but it is hardly a stellar product.

What can Windows do that Linux can't? An interesting question.

I never charged people to fix their Windows machines (mostly XP), I just tried to sort out their problems the best I could with the tools I had to hand. Most people seemed satisfied, I just never gave it much thought beyond this.

What was a trickle turned into a torrent around the time Vista was released. I was overwhelmed, I simply did not want to know.

These days you have to pay me to interact with Windows. A few beers, a good meal, a night with your rather attractive daughter/niece/second cousin removed etc.

I'm posting from Fedora Core 11, but I have two Ubuntu based machines for the record.

This is what Windows can do and Linux can't.

fjosh
August 14th, 2009, 02:38 AM
What can Windows do that Linux can't?

Run a Broadcom 4306 rev 3

I'm extremely disappointed in the terrible wireless support in Karmic, so far at least.
bcmwl-kernel-source has done nothing for me.

caeroe
August 14th, 2009, 04:33 PM
Run Flash video in fullscreen at optimal performance.

It's why my netbook is WinXP based, I wanted an Ubuntu netbook, but Flash performance is crucial to browsing.

kwacka
August 15th, 2009, 02:22 PM
What can Windows do that Linux can't?

Run a Broadcom 4306 rev 3

I'm extremely disappointed in the terrible wireless support in Karmic, so far at least.
bcmwl-kernel-source has done nothing for me.

Have you complained to Broadcom about this?

Chame_Wizard
August 15th, 2009, 02:37 PM
when 1 program is freezing,others are also freezing.:guitar:

omarly
August 15th, 2009, 04:15 PM
Windows installs quite ok. And eventhough it takes a long time, it's up and running without crusial bugs, for allmost all my experiences.

I have been using MS since 3.1, following Ubuntu - wanted to convert - for the last 2 yrs.
For my concern, i turned to Ubuntu when they got support for my Option usb 3g modem. My only connection to the net. But I had a long time searching forums, trying lots of things to get my intel 3945 wifi, to get started at boot.

his is a shame and i think Ubuntu would gain a lot of new users if these issues were solved. Ubuntu is now my only OS, and i like it a lot, but pc users today uses them FOR THE NET. We are addicted to it.

People like my mom, aunt, and i guess a lot like them, have issues with MS, but are happy to get their mail and browse. Then it should be a #1 concern for Ubuntu to get these connections working.

THEN i am sure Ubuntu would get a lot of converts.

Have i nice day!

Spencer Caplan
August 16th, 2009, 12:45 AM
The only thing that I could do with XP that I can not do with Ubuntu is run iTunes.

fela
August 16th, 2009, 11:03 AM
The only thing that I could do with XP that I can not do with Ubuntu is run iTunes.

Install amarok on Ubuntu. Amarok 1.4 OWNS all media players (in most people's opinions), definitely including iTunes. If you want a less-bloated itunes clone for Linux, just use rhythmbox (comes installed with Ubuntu). I'm not too sure I like amarok 2 though. At first I hated it but trust me if you persevere with it and learn the user interface then amarok 2 isn't that bad. It's just unconventional.

That being said I definitely prefer Amarok 1.4 (there's tutorials for getting it running on Ubuntu 9.04) - it definitely owns all other music players on every platform.

Spencer Caplan
August 21st, 2009, 06:49 PM
Install amarok on Ubuntu. Amarok 1.4 OWNS all media players (in most people's opinions), definitely including iTunes. If you want a less-bloated itunes clone for Linux, just use rhythmbox (comes installed with Ubuntu). I'm not too sure I like amarok 2 though. At first I hated it but trust me if you persevere with it and learn the user interface then amarok 2 isn't that bad. It's just unconventional.

That being said I definitely prefer Amarok 1.4 (there's tutorials for getting it running on Ubuntu 9.04) - it definitely owns all other music players on every platform.
Can I use Amarok on GNOME, because I thought that it was a KDE based product?

RiceMonster
August 21st, 2009, 08:11 PM
Can I use Amarok on GNOME, because I thought that it was a KDE based product?

Yes. You can run KDE applications in GNOME.

amsum
August 21st, 2009, 08:36 PM
Install amarok on Ubuntu. Amarok 1.4 OWNS all media players (in most people's opinions), definitely including iTunes.

Well most use iTunes for iPod/iPhone syncing and Amarok can sync only audio files. Still we need iTunes for Video, Contacts and Pictures syncing. Correct me if I am wrong.

fela
August 21st, 2009, 09:40 PM
Well most use iTunes for iPod/iPhone syncing and Amarok can sync only audio files. Still we need iTunes for Video, Contacts and Pictures syncing. Correct me if I am wrong.

You could probably use a different program, not sure though as I don't have an iPod. I don't like the ipods at all though. I know that recently there was a big scam where they made the ipods only work with itunes. Not sure if it got cracked though. If it didn't it means you can't use the latest ipods at all with linux :(

It's better to get a more 'standards compliant' media player anyway, they're just as good and alot cheaper sometimes.

jimasbille
August 21st, 2009, 10:12 PM
Russian script kiddies can hack into thousands of Windows machines and turn them into Botnets for use in DDOS attacks. Try doing that with Linux!:lolflag:

georgegerm
August 21st, 2009, 10:56 PM
new to me is to run bluetooh on windows is simple, in hardy it is a give and take ok for some, and not working for me...
but i will not give up !!!

Tamalin
August 21st, 2009, 10:57 PM
Russian script kiddies can hack into thousands of Windows machines and turn them into Botnets for use in DDOS attacks. Try doing that with Linux!:lolflag:



nmap [ip-address]
./metasploit/framework-3.2/msfconsole


Hacking isn't unreasonable on Linux.

AllRadioisDead
August 21st, 2009, 10:59 PM
Run Atlantica Online or Maplestory.

blur xc
August 21st, 2009, 11:02 PM
Run Flash video in fullscreen at optimal performance.

It's why my netbook is WinXP based, I wanted an Ubuntu netbook, but Flash performance is crucial to browsing.

I used to have this problem until I read the how to optimize flash thread, and now all my flash websites I'm used to using work 100% great, with nice fast frame rates. I'd even venture to say they work better than they do on my work Win XP machine...

Teagames.com, Fantastic Contraption are two flash based game sites I like to waste time on, and I have full screen You Tube working 100%, very fast, not jitters, skips, tears, anything. the trick for me was to right click the flash window, select settings, and uncheck hardware acceleration...

I'm most satisfied.

BM

datacw
August 21st, 2009, 11:22 PM
hmmmm

windows can make movies but linux (ubuntu :-) ) cant

and windows can b****** up your files ubuntu dosnt (usualy :-/):lolflag:

plus windows can upgrade to get a virus called vista:lolflag:

but realy windows can actually run games with high graphic requerments and 3d graphics and other stuff linux is rubbish at running games

hope i helped (and if ur blue i hope i cheered u up lol)

Tibuda
August 21st, 2009, 11:44 PM
windows can make movies but linux (ubuntu :-) ) cant
http://www.linuxmovies.org/

deadbeatdrum
August 21st, 2009, 11:46 PM
Attract users that respond to these forums with just how great Windows is and how Bill Gates is this misunderstood philanthropist who in years to come will take the place of Jesus in the hearts and minds of all those that consider themselves a true American. Did I miss anything?

rajcan
August 22nd, 2009, 02:43 AM
Linux can't run Halo 2 or some of my other favorite games. :cry:

Baneblade
August 22nd, 2009, 03:03 AM
Run commercial games.
If you say Wine/Cedegea/Crossover you get a slap of shame. We all know that these are brilliant concepts, but they are most definitely not ready yet!
At most they run a tiny fraction of games, and are the vast majority are buggy at best.
Until then there is always a quick dual-boot, and then a hasty retreat back into Ubuntu when the gaming ends.
On the positive side however.. I do find that I get more work done when Im in Ubuntu.. hmm, i wonder why? :p

Giant Speck
August 22nd, 2009, 04:51 AM
Attract users that respond to these forums with just how great Windows is and how Bill Gates is this misunderstood philanthropist who in years to come will take the place of Jesus in the hearts and minds of all those that consider themselves a true American. Did I miss anything?

It's not much different from people who think Richard Stallman is the second coming of Jesus. I mean, come on:

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6726/saintignucius.th.jpg (http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6726/saintignucius.jpg)

Seriously?

JordyD
August 23rd, 2009, 10:23 PM
It's not much different from people who think Richard Stallman is the second coming of Jesus. I mean, come on:

http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6726/saintignucius.th.jpg (http://img23.imageshack.us/img23/6726/saintignucius.jpg)

Seriously?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S76pHIYx3ik

dandis
August 25th, 2009, 04:00 PM
Windows can do lots of things that Linux can't, for example it can flawlessly run Steam and Team Fortress 2, a game I spend at least 3 or 4 hours a day in.

tsali
August 26th, 2009, 12:49 AM
Found a new one today...

This is a double sided story....

First, Vista SP2 doesn't like something in my current hardware. It refuses to install.

That's ok. It's old and it runs Vista SP1 perfectly. I can deal with it.

But here's the REAL kicker:

Vista SP2 self identified its own failure to properly install and then completely restored my system to its pre-installation state.

Given the issues I've had with linux regression, I'd love to be able to simply "revert" to my previous system as simply as this...

fela
August 26th, 2009, 12:56 AM
Given the issues I've had with linux regression, I'd love to be able to simply "revert" to my previous system as simply as this...

It's much much harder on Linux as not everything's designed by one organization. If people cooperated perfectly amongst every society then it would be the same level of skill required to do this on Linux as for MS on windows. It doesn't make windows a better system though.

I've found something that windows can do that Linux can't, solely due to the developers supporting nothing but windows. It's the circuit simulator for PICAXE programmable integrated circuit design and implementation. The simulator is essential if you don't want loads of junk circuit boards.

This is nothing to do with Linux devs and I count it as a 100% fault of the developer. Well, it is ;)

tsali
August 26th, 2009, 02:05 AM
It's much much harder on Linux as not everything's designed by one organization. If people cooperated perfectly amongst every society then it would be the same level of skill required to do this on Linux as for MS on windows. It doesn't make windows a better system though.


So, you're saying that a system that WORKS versus a system that DOES NOT WORK doesn't make the system that WORKS a better system?

You're saying that a system that requires a utopian social model to WORK is better than one that WORKS in the existing real world imperfect social model?

Please explain.

fela
August 26th, 2009, 02:18 AM
So, you're saying that a system that WORKS versus a system that DOES NOT WORK doesn't make the system that WORKS a better system?

You're saying that a system that requires a utopian social model to WORK is better than one that WORKS in the existing real world imperfect social model?

Please explain.

Well actually, Linux does work. It just has a few problems due to society not working with it, rather working against it. It doesn't need a utopian society, it just needs things to cooperate a bit with it.

Windows working with more hardware (edit: and software) doesn't necessarily (and at all) mean it works better as an overall OS. I think you missed my point, young grasshopper!

EDIT2: Also, the society today is perfect for windows. It's utopian for windows actually, as you put it. If society today was built around linux instead of, or as well as, windows, then Linux would have just as good if not better support than windows. Society today is just imperfect for Linux, not for windows. Missed my point again, it looks like. Maybe you should think through your posts, re-read my post before replying, and only then, once you've found a valid point to make, argue with me. It's just tiring and pointless arguing without a good argument, it's called I believe a flame war. So don't argue unless you have a good point to make, please.

tsali
August 26th, 2009, 02:34 AM
Well actually, Linux does work. It just has a few problems due to society not working with it, rather working against it. It doesn't need a utopian society, it just needs things to cooperate a bit with it.

Windows working with more hardware (edit: and software) doesn't necessarily (and at all) mean it works better as an overall OS. I think you missed my point, young grasshopper!

EDIT2: Also, the society today is perfect for windows. It's utopian for windows actually, as you put it. If society today was built around linux instead of, or as well as, windows, then Linux would have just as good if not better support than windows. Society today is just imperfect for Linux, not for windows. Missed my point again, it looks like. Maybe you should think through your posts, re-read my post before replying, and only then, once you've found a valid point to make, argue with me. It's just tiring and pointless arguing without a good argument, it's called I believe a flame war. So don't argue unless you have a good point to make, please.

So, you're blaming society for not putting more work into using a tool? It is not society's job to adjust to a tool that doesn't serve them as well as other available tools.

I made a perfectly valid point in my argument that you choose not to engage with - grasshooper

When I have to boot back into Windows in order to use hardware/software A/B/C on a daily basis, I would argue that Linux does not work for me.

If we restrict our discussion to the appliance level...i.e. a very specific task...then you could argue that linux does work - for that case. But a consumer computer is a multi-faceted machine.

My argument is that I expect a computer to enable me to do all of the things that I WANT to do. The system that lets me do that in the most comprehensive fashion is the system that WORKS.

interestinfellow
August 26th, 2009, 03:04 AM
You can do just about anything you want to do in linux, but not windows... You should choose your words carefully.

Example, go download the source for any of the proprietary programs you like to use in windows, and then try to modify it to suit your needs. How about fixing that security hole (upldrvinfo.htm sound familiar?) that crashes your system. You can't. It's owned by someone and you agreed not to modify it's code when you installed it (EULA!); and if they don't want it to do exactly what you want, then it doesn't; it does what they want, how they want, with flaws that will only be fixed by them, if you're lucky. You are stuck with their shite. Now do that with linux.... No problem, unless you don't program. Then you can wait on the thousands of people helping each other to make a better product, not profit.

And since when has any OS had perfect integration with all hardware? I sure remember 95/98/2k/XP/Vista having lots of problems with any not cutting edge technology and or existing software every time the new OS was released.

Which brings me to my next point... many windows users know where the power button is, and and that's it. This is why windows needs to be soo "easy" to use. This is also what brings on most of it's flaws. It was written for anyone with no skill or knowledge to use. And as such, people have been allowed to be, and grown more accustomed to not needing to know anything. They think it's more important for it to be "easy" for anyone to use.
Just because you know how to turn the key to start the car, doesn't mean it should drive itself? Or how about explosive demolition? You can light a match or a lighter, but that doesn't mean that a bad drop on a demo is the dynamite's fault. You can't write an OS that does everything for everyone right out of the box and have it run perfect. I would rather know a little bit, and tailor my OS to my specific needs. You can't expect to command millions of lines of code running in a labyrinth of circuts without knowing a little about how it works first.

So, the answer remains: you need to know how to use a tool in order for it to work properly. Just because you don't know how it works (or how to work it), doesn't mean it ain't good.

fela
August 26th, 2009, 03:13 AM
So, you're blaming society for not putting more work into using a tool? It is not society's job to adjust to a tool that doesn't serve them as well as other available tools.

I made a perfectly valid point in my argument that you choose not to engage with - grasshooper

When I have to boot back into Windows in order to use hardware/software A/B/C on a daily basis, I would argue that Linux does not work for me.

If we restrict our discussion to the appliance level...i.e. a very specific task...then you could argue that linux does work - for that case. But a consumer computer is a multi-faceted machine.

My argument is that I expect a computer to enable me to do all of the things that I WANT to do. The system that lets me do that in the most comprehensive fashion is the system that WORKS.

I agree with interestinfellow. The fact that Linux is a better underlying system remains aswell, and that's why I use Linux. It's flexibility, security, and everything else that makes it that much better of an OS than windows for me. Just because someone didn't make a particular program for Linux that you like using, doesn't mean Linux fails, it means the developer fails. Just because someone didn't support Linux with their hardware, doesn't mean Linux failed. It means the hardware vendor/developer failed miserably.

And just because useless little twerps go round making pointless arguments on the internet, it doesn't do any detriment to the fact that Linux is a very good operating system, period, no matter whether other people decide whether or not to support it. This wasn't directed at you by the way, I've seen plenty of people doing this and it really ****es me off.

tsali
August 26th, 2009, 03:32 AM
I agree with interestinfellow. The fact that Linux is a better underlying system remains aswell, and that's why I use Linux. It's flexibility, security, and everything else that makes it that much better of an OS than windows for me. Just because someone didn't make a particular program for Linux that you like using, doesn't mean Linux fails, it means the developer fails. Just because someone didn't support Linux with their hardware, doesn't mean Linux failed. It means the hardware vendor/developer failed miserably.

And just because useless little twerps go round making pointless arguments on the internet, it doesn't do any detriment to the fact that Linux is a very good operating system, period, no matter whether other people decide whether or not to support it. This wasn't directed at you by the way, I've seen plenty of people doing this and it really ****es me off.

Yeah, it was directed at me and your disclaimer doesn't absolve you.

Let me ask you this:

If someone built the FINEST AUTOMOBILE ON THE PLANET...but they built it 14 feet wide, making it essentially useless...

Would it still be the finest automobile on the planet?

A tool...like an OS...is defined by its usefulness...not its intrinsic elegance as is often espoused here.

Clean code? Good memory management? SO what...if it doesn't do what I want it to...I don't care.

tsali
August 26th, 2009, 03:43 AM
You can do just about anything you want to do in linux, but not windows... You should choose your words carefully.

Example, go download the source for any of the proprietary programs you like to use in windows, and then try to modify it to suit your needs. How about fixing that security hole (upldrvinfo.htm sound familiar?) that crashes your system. You can't. It's owned by someone and you agreed not to modify it's code when you installed it (EULA!); and if they don't want it to do exactly what you want, then it doesn't; it does what they want, how they want, with flaws that will only be fixed by them, if you're lucky. You are stuck with their shite. Now do that with linux.... No problem, unless you don't program. Then you can wait on the thousands of people helping each other to make a better product, not profit.

And since when has any OS had perfect integration with all hardware? I sure remember 95/98/2k/XP/Vista having lots of problems with any not cutting edge technology and or existing software every time the new OS was released.

Which brings me to my next point... many windows users know where the power button is, and and that's it. This is why windows needs to be soo "easy" to use. This is also what brings on most of it's flaws. It was written for anyone with no skill or knowledge to use. And as such, people have been allowed to be, and grown more accustomed to not needing to know anything. They think it's more important for it to be "easy" for anyone to use.
Just because you know how to turn the key to start the car, doesn't mean it should drive itself? Or how about explosive demolition? You can light a match or a lighter, but that doesn't mean that a bad drop on a demo is the dynamite's fault. You can't write an OS that does everything for everyone right out of the box and have it run perfect. I would rather know a little bit, and tailor my OS to my specific needs. You can't expect to command millions of lines of code running in a labyrinth of circuts without knowing a little about how it works first.

So, the answer remains: you need to know how to use a tool in order for it to work properly. Just because you don't know how it works (or how to work it), doesn't mean it ain't good.

I chose my words quite carefully. I am not a programmer nor do I have any interest in it. But I might still WANT to sync an iPhone to my computer.

The fact that YOU want to know a little more than the rest of us is your choice...and not one that should be forced on us all.

MY point is that if there is a platform that lets me accomplish what I want to do without knowing something I don't care to know to start with...than that's the platform I'd prefer.

IF what I wanted to do can be accomplished by ONE platform and not the other (unless I gain superhuman computing skills I don't care to learn) makes that system less good for me...because it makes me less powerful with the tool.

running_rabbit07
August 26th, 2009, 03:50 AM
Found a new one today...

This is a double sided story....

First, Vista SP2 doesn't like something in my current hardware. It refuses to install.

That's ok. It's old and it runs Vista SP1 perfectly. I can deal with it.

But here's the REAL kicker:

Vista SP2 self identified its own failure to properly install and then completely restored my system to its pre-installation state.

Given the issues I've had with linux regression, I'd love to be able to simply "revert" to my previous system as simply as this...

So... Do you want Ubuntu to become Microsoft?

tsali
August 26th, 2009, 10:17 AM
So... Do you want Ubuntu to become Microsoft?

I want Ubuntu to be able to do the things that Microsoft products do...and more.

fela
August 26th, 2009, 11:10 AM
Yeah, it was directed at me and your disclaimer doesn't absolve you.

Let me ask you this:

If someone built the FINEST AUTOMOBILE ON THE PLANET...but they built it 14 feet wide, making it essentially useless...

Would it still be the finest automobile on the planet?

A tool...like an OS...is defined by its usefulness...not its intrinsic elegance as is often espoused here.

Clean code? Good memory management? SO what...if it doesn't do what I want it to...I don't care.

Your analogy doesn't work though. Let me put it this way:

A company builds a bog standard estate car that'll get them from A to B but isn't very fast, and when the engine breaks down you can't fix it because the company that made the car doesn't tell you anything about how the engine works.

And now the community fights back by building their own car together, and this works very very well, it has lots of engines problems but all the specifications are out in the open so anyone can help fix it and share their success stories (and ask for help about it).

The trouble is, all the best car drivers seem to favor the bog standard but not intrinsically as good car that'll get them from A to B without trouble most of the time, because the company that made it has established itself as the dominant car manufacturer. This leaves some obscure, unknown, sometimes not as good drivers to drive the 'open source' car. Now you, as the passenger, have a dilemma: if you just want to get from A to B without problems most of the time, but in a crappy car, you should choose the 'microsoft' car. But you also know, deep down (or you should) that the 'open source' car works better when it works, is better organized, less cramped, etc etc.

Has that cleared things up for you a bit?

Please don't argue with me, as (I'm not being big headed for the sake of it) it's obvious that I know quite some more about Linux than you. I'm not being obnoxious, I'm just stating the facts. From what you've said you obviously don't know much about Linux and the linux way of life. I know that if you do argue with me it's just gonna turn into a pointless flame war (which is just a waste of bandwidth if you ask me).

Btw, I don't give a monkeys whether you use Linux, windows, mac, OS/2, BSD, etc. Just use what works for you, as you can see in my (better) car analogy.

tsali
August 27th, 2009, 12:52 AM
Your analogy doesn't work though. Let me put it this way:

A company builds a bog standard estate car that'll get them from A to B but isn't very fast, and when the engine breaks down you can't fix it because the company that made the car doesn't tell you anything about how the engine works.

And now the community fights back by building their own car together, and this works very very well, it has lots of engines problems but all the specifications are out in the open so anyone can help fix it and share their success stories (and ask for help about it).

The trouble is, all the best car drivers seem to favor the bog standard but not intrinsically as good car that'll get them from A to B without trouble most of the time, because the company that made it has established itself as the dominant car manufacturer. This leaves some obscure, unknown, sometimes not as good drivers to drive the 'open source' car. Now you, as the passenger, have a dilemma: if you just want to get from A to B without problems most of the time, but in a crappy car, you should choose the 'microsoft' car. But you also know, deep down (or you should) that the 'open source' car works better when it works, is better organized, less cramped, etc etc.

Has that cleared things up for you a bit?

Please don't argue with me, as (I'm not being big headed for the sake of it) it's obvious that I know quite some more about Linux than you. I'm not being obnoxious, I'm just stating the facts. From what you've said you obviously don't know much about Linux and the linux way of life. I know that if you do argue with me it's just gonna turn into a pointless flame war (which is just a waste of bandwidth if you ask me).

Btw, I don't give a monkeys whether you use Linux, windows, mac, OS/2, BSD, etc. Just use what works for you, as you can see in my (better) car analogy.

YOUR analogy only works if you assume Windows is the "crappy car" and doesn't work as well as the open source alternative. This hasn't been my experience.

In six years of near constant use and installation on OEM machines, Windows has NEVER given me the "engine" problems that linux has. Sure, the hood may be welded shut, but the darn thing starts and takes me from point A to B EVERY TIME. It never MAKES me open the hood.

Also, I get tired of the "anyone can fix it" crap. Out of 10000 users, how many of them do you think can REALLY fix a problem when it crops up? How many do you think even know what they are looking at? Why do you think the backlog of unanswered support requests on this forum is expanding exponentially?

The assertion that linux is better because there are millions of eyes looking at the code is absurd. That's like asserting a million monkeys beating on typewriters will produce War and Peace.

I would hazard to guess that there are actually fewer sets of eyes looking at open source code who actually know what they are looking at than there are with counterpart commercial software.

For someone with my skill level, what do you think happens when the system breaks (which is far more often with the Debian/Ubuntu systems I run)?

We REINSTALL - and it's the same no matter what platform we're running.

Lastly, I will argue with you if I please. It's not obvious that you know jack about anything. In fact, I think you sound pretty ignorant about human nature and the use of computers in general. I know a lot more about the linux "way of life" than I ever wanted to. I think its downright silly that people would build a "way of life" around a computer system to begin with. If you can't have a discussion without turning it into a flame war, that speaks more to your maturity than mine.

Chronon
August 27th, 2009, 01:25 AM
I chose my words quite carefully. I am not a programmer nor do I have any interest in it. But I might still WANT to sync an iPhone to my computer.

The fact that YOU want to know a little more than the rest of us is your choice...and not one that should be forced on us all.

MY point is that if there is a platform that lets me accomplish what I want to do without knowing something I don't care to know to start with...than that's the platform I'd prefer.

IF what I wanted to do can be accomplished by ONE platform and not the other (unless I gain superhuman computing skills I don't care to learn) makes that system less good for me...because it makes me less powerful with the tool.
Your post illustrates the insidious hooks presented by such gadgets as the iPhone or Zune or other products that require proprietary software in order to effectively use the device. You have swallowed a hook that allows them to reel you in and force you into using their technologies. I would rather have standardized ports than proprietary docks. I prefer standard/open protocols over proprietary ones.

You chose to buy a product with OS restrictions. This is a specific interface choice by the vendor, not anything fundamentally lacking about the OS itself. You seem to be trying to pass this off as a failing of the locked-out OS, while it really seems more like an example of how certain key players can game the system by employing tactics like proprietary lock-in.

I understand that these hooks present legitimate concerns for people and inhibit them from feeling free to choose any OS they like. I think a fair thing is to just try to explain proprietary lock-in and maybe at the end-of-life of the device they can transition to a device that imposes less control over what should be a completely independent choice; what OS you decide to use.

rocky35
August 27th, 2009, 02:40 AM
I would have to say that RPG and FPS games are monumentally huge in the game world. I love LOTRO online but since moving to Ubuntu I no longer get to play it. I can say it was not easy to leave a system that would allow me to dwell in absolute bliss with no gain of knowledge or care of reality. However I dont mind now I am so busy getting familiar with this system and have recentley taken up programming. (very new and very noobish)

interestinfellow
August 27th, 2009, 03:16 AM
YOUR analogy only works if you assume Windows is the "crappy car" and doesn't work as well as the open source alternative. This hasn't been my experience.

In six years of near constant use and installation on OEM machines, Windows has NEVER given me the "engine" problems that linux has. Sure, the hood may be welded shut, but the darn thing starts and takes me from point A to B EVERY TIME. It never MAKES me open the hood.

Really? Ever gotten a BSOD? Malware? Spyware? Does your system start up really slow (becuase the manufacturer insists on letting a little bit of every program load at startup (msconfig))? How about viruses? Or how about using your favorite piece of software or hardware, that doesn't work or isn't supported anymore?

Microsoft is the crappy car that is dominant because it got a head start, and to argue with this is a load of bullocks - period.


The assertion that linux is better because there are millions of eyes looking at the code is absurd. That's like asserting a million monkeys beating on typewriters will produce War and Peace.

If all those monkeys were named Tolsty and knew a little bit about language and typing, then yeah, your right.


I would hazard to guess that there are actually fewer sets of eyes looking at open source code who actually know what they are looking at than there are with counterpart commercial software.
Uh.... yeah, show me the carfax on that one.

I think its downright silly that people would build a "way of life" around a computer system to begin with.

And I would venture to say that most of the people who have structured their lives around clicking hours a day of their life away on World Of Warcraft, Myspace, and Facebook, are more than likely windows users, and don't know ***** about that screen they're looking at. At least those of us building a "way of life" around open source are doing it for the betterment of mankind, and not seeing how many bumper stickers our 40,000 "friends" have sent us.

BTW You are the one complaining that Linux won't integrate with your life because of incompatibilities.

I, also,love and hate ignorant people. I do additions, remodeling, and repair (of a lot of things including computers) for a living. And stupid people that don't care to know about the world around them are my bread and butter: they can't do squat for themselves because they don't care to know how, so they call me. I don't understand how people can go on living life without the need to know a little bit about life and how things work.

I hate ignorance, but it's my job security. So if you need your computer fixed give me a call, ignorant a$$hole.

And I think it's not the best idea to pick a fight in the bull pit....

gripper
August 27th, 2009, 03:53 AM
An OS should be able to run ALL hardware and software. After all, it's only an OS, it's the software that we "use".
Oops, I guess Windows already does that. Priceless!
Still.............. I prefer using Linux, especially cloud computing on my netbook. Why the hell is that???
Is it the rebel in me? Is it because it's free (if you don't put a value on the hours and hours of searching and tweaking)? Is it because I'm masochistic with sadistic tendencies? Is it because I was a DOS/Windows geek who wants to be a Linux geek because it's cooler? Is it because Bill Gates is rich enough already!?
Until I can answer this question in my inner core, actually define my "real" reasoning through serious introspection and brutal self honesty, I will continue to dual boot. I already speak two languages and can tell you where to go in a third. Duality has it's advantages.

interestinfellow
August 27th, 2009, 04:05 AM
I love a good debate, and I think that dichotomy is intrinsically important for life to succeed.

Tsali, I don't know why, but I don't care for your opinion. I say that, just so I can feel better about myself, and stop trying to flame you.

Gripper, I'm not sure if we disagree or not, and I don't know why, but I like ya.

fela
August 27th, 2009, 08:54 AM
YOUR analogy only works if you assume Windows is the "crappy car" and doesn't work as well as the open source alternative. This hasn't been my experience.

In six years of near constant use and installation on OEM machines, Windows has NEVER given me the "engine" problems that linux has. Sure, the hood may be welded shut, but the darn thing starts and takes me from point A to B EVERY TIME. It never MAKES me open the hood.

Put it this way. Computers, invariably, have, problems, no, matter, what, OS. So it's alot better if you can fix these problems yourself.

Just because you seem to have got lucky with your hardware/software combo it doesn't mean everyone's like that.

Have you even tried to sort lots of stuff out before on windows? Like the endless trial and error of getting network printing working? Things like that, when they don't work (and they invariably don't work some of the time as that's just computers for you) are really hard to fix in windows and alot of the time its pure guesswork. Not so with Linux.

And if you argue with me that the windows kernel is built better than the linux kernel I'm gonna stop arguing with you! Cause you obviously don't know what you're talking about. I'm not talking about the GUI.


Also, I get tired of the "anyone can fix it" crap. Out of 10000 users, how many of them do you think can REALLY fix a problem when it crops up? How many do you think even know what they are looking at? Why do you think the backlog of unanswered support requests on this forum is expanding exponentially?

Is this some kind of joke without a punchline? I've been fixing my problems with Linux, or asking for help with my problems, ever since I started using it! So has everyone else I know that uses Linux! (A fair amount of people). Just because alot of people use linux and don't bother to learn how to fix their computers, it doesn't mean it's any less one of the core 'features' of Linux. Alot of people use linux precisely so they can fix their problems, change things, and just generally operate their computer how THEY want, not some company. As for the ever increasing number of unanswered posts, this is because of people not bothering to fix their computers. Anyone can learn how to fix a computer if they actually want to, like anyone can learn how to fix their bicycles if they want to (also an essential thing).


The assertion that linux is better because there are millions of eyes looking at the code is absurd. That's like asserting a million monkeys beating on typewriters will produce War and Peace.

Now this has to be a joke. It's not 'better, because more eyes look on the code': it's better, because anyone using linux can operate their computer how they wanted to operate it. Also it is better in some areas purely from more eyes looking at the code. This is because security holes get uncovered much faster, subsequently get fixed much faster, and in the end it has a much better security model. Especially when the distro is designed around security in the first place. I'm talking about the 8-years-old Linux bug, it only got uncovered (and fixed) because of prying eyes on the source code. This is good.

Having a million monkeys randomly typing wouldn't make war and peace because a) monkeys aren't writers, and b) they don't even know english. Linux programmers a) are programmers, and b) know programming languages.


I would hazard to guess that there are actually fewer sets of eyes looking at open source code who actually know what they are looking at than there are with counterpart commercial software.

Good luck proving that.


For someone with my skill level, what do you think happens when the system breaks (which is far more often with the Debian/Ubuntu systems I run)?

We REINSTALL - and it's the same no matter what platform we're running.

That's because you should LEARN, that's L E A R N, how to fix problems yourself. Reinstalling is a last ditch attempt, it's like squashing an ant with a bomb.


Lastly, I will argue with you if I please. It's not obvious that you know jack about anything. In fact, I think you sound pretty ignorant about human nature and the use of computers in general. I know a lot more about the linux "way of life" than I ever wanted to. I think its downright silly that people would build a "way of life" around a computer system to begin with. If you can't have a discussion without turning it into a flame war, that speaks more to your maturity than mine.

I'm not the one turning this into a flamewar. You just seem persistent to argue with me, and I don't like having hanging, wrong, arguments with no one else arguing, on here. And your argument that 'I don't know jack about anything', I honestly can't prove this to you of course, you'll just have to make do with TRUST for once, but I know more about Linux than anyone I know (and one of my friends that uses Linux that I know more about Linux than, is doing a computing degree at the age of 13. I'm soon gonna do the same degree aswell btw :)). I have the most computer literate mind that you could probably possibly imagine, I'm a self confessed Linux and computer GEEK, a tech-head (apologies to Jill on the forums ;)). I pretty much know all of bash's functions, apart from the really obscure such as interpreting a bash function as hex code. Arguing that I don't know jack about anything computer wise isn't a good argument. You'd know that if you met me.

You reckon it's silly to build a community and philosophy around how people operate their computers? Why? Would you say that about how people wrote books? Or music? You'd say, blah to classical music, what's with these music-types? Why not just listen to white noise all the time?

That's not that much of an exaggeration. I can't believe you said that, BTW, I still enter a state of shock every time I read some of your (stupid) arguments.

Just because you prefer windows (I don't mind that), you don't have to shout to the world that windows is better, because it ain't, quite frankly. Why should I give a horse dung about whether you prefer windows or not? I'm not one of these Linux evangelists, I run windows vista in a separate partition because of things like Adobe master collection CS4 for design work (very good programs BTW). I'm always reminded of its lack of flexibility whenever I boot it. I mean I can't even edit the bootloader without some stupid proprietary code. Where's my editing-by-hand gone in windows? How do I edit what get's automatically mounted at boot and what doesn't? How do I install software, minus downloading an installation file from the internet? How do I have each package compiled separately, optimized for my hardware? I can't even have a taskbar on the secondary monitor. How can I have two different GUI servers on each monitor? Plus, where do I configure the amount of transparency for aero? Or, whether or not it's blurred? Or the physics parameters for the animations? It's all gone, not like on Linux. And that's why I prefer Linux.

hakermania
August 27th, 2009, 09:53 AM
I think gaming is the most important for a lot of people. Also a lot of professionals miss Photoshop.
you are wrong. i installed photoshop via wine and works nice!!!!!
I agree with the others that gaming is the most important thing....:(

squenson
August 27th, 2009, 05:44 PM
Here is one thing I can do with Windows but not with Linux. Don't get me wrong, I do not say that it is the fault of Linux, I just say that I don't know how to do it with Linux (Ubuntu 9.04) installed on my laptop. On my HP6830s, I cannot manage the brightness of my screen with the keys fn-f7 and fn-f8. I have found a workaround on this forum with the gamma level and it is a good workaround but it is not perfect. Under Windows XP (dual boot), it worked when I opened the box (when I opened the lid of the laptop, to be more precise!).

Another thing that I can only do with Windows, to the best of my knowledge, is to open, modify and save an Excel file with 1,000,000 rows. This is theoretical and I actually do not need this feature. I am perfectly happy with OpenOffice and a heavy contributor to the support forum of this product.

fela
August 27th, 2009, 05:55 PM
Here is one thing I can do with Windows but not with Linux. Don't get me wrong, I do not say that it is the fault of Linux, I just say that I don't know how to do it with Linux (Ubuntu 9.04) installed on my laptop. On my HP6830s, I cannot manage the brightness of my screen with the keys fn-f7 and fn-f8. I have found a workaround on this forum with the gamma level and it is a good workaround but it is not perfect. Under Windows XP (dual boot), it worked when I opened the box (when I opened the lid of the laptop, to be more precise!).

Another thing that I can only do with Windows, to the best of my knowledge, is to open, modify and save an Excel file with 1,000,000 rows. This is theoretical and I actually do not need this feature. I am perfectly happy with OpenOffice and a heavy contributor to the support forum of this product.

Imagine having to fill in a spreadsheet with 1,000,000 rows....absolute hell on earth :'(

About the brightness keys - you might want to have a look in system > preferences > keyboard shortcuts. Just an idea.

overdrank
August 28th, 2009, 12:45 AM
Closed for review.Please remember the the Code of Conduct (http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php?page=policy) when posting.