What can Windows do that Linux can't? [Archive] - Page 2

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knopper67

June 1st, 2007, 09:05 AM

It can CRASH.

Quillz

June 1st, 2007, 09:06 AM

So I guess Windows isn't "ready for the desktop," at least not for the mythical "Joe Sixpack."
Luckily for the average user, though, Windows comes with a firewall turned on by default, and most pre-fabricated PCs also have at least some anti-virus trial.

Quillz

June 1st, 2007, 09:07 AM

It can CRASH.
All operating systems crash. I've had Linux, Windows and OS X crash on me.

knopper67

June 1st, 2007, 09:09 AM

All operating systems crash. I've had Linux, Windows and OS X crash on me.

Well, i guess i'm just one of the lucky linux users. After fooling around with the X server for a couple hours it still hasn't crashed. Linux is practically invincible.:D

aysiu

June 1st, 2007, 09:09 AM

Luckily for the average user, though, Windows comes with a firewall turned on by default, and most pre-fabricated PCs also have at least some anti-virus trial.
Uh, the average users I know still manage to get malware installed on their Windows computers.

osmoTR

June 1st, 2007, 09:24 AM

blue screen :D

http://img510.imageshack.us/img510/7466/1072043189602dr5.th.jpg (http://img510.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1072043189602dr5.jpg)

brim4brim

June 1st, 2007, 10:15 AM

I guess we have different definitions of updates and upgrades! I know a lot of people that have purchased Photoshop CS1, and then CS2, and are going to be getting CS3. Office 2007 is actually a fantastic program and again, I know many people who will be purchasing it as well, eventhough they already have an older version of Office. That is the stuff to which I was referring to. Not a new emoticon update to your IM client.

Having said that though, I think most people don't ever upgrade anything, unless it is an automatic update. The people (like myself) who have this strange compulsion to upgrade to every new release of a program eventhough they will probably never use the new features are in the minority.

I think its important for Ubuntu to include some critical upgrades in LTS such as Firefox which gets security problems fixed. Since average users don't upgrade and don't know about firefox updatese, its safe to say that they bother grabbing the latest release from Firefox's website, even though they can.

Luckily for the average user, though, Windows comes with a firewall turned on by default, and most pre-fabricated PCs also have at least some anti-virus trial.

A bad firewall (see reviews) and an antivirus trial which will expire and require a subscription to continue using it is not a good solution to a problem with the OS. The firewall should be at least average and the av should be free to use and update since it is not the users fault Ms OS has security problems. Likewise with windows defender and spyware. It is just a bad solution and doesn't catch a lot of the problems third party software catches.

init1

June 1st, 2007, 11:32 AM

Mainly software and peripherals. Almost any software or hard ware I buy, I can be confident that it will work on a windows pc. Everything else, linux can do better

pentax

June 1st, 2007, 04:45 PM

Maybe for novice users, but any person who is even somewhat technologically literate will be smart enough to have at least some anti-virus and anti-spyware services running, preventing most (but not all) spyware and worms. Really, as long as you are smart about what you do and download on the Internet, you needn't worry so much about system-killing viruses.
Really? So then why does MS bother realeasing so many Service Packs & Updates if it's as simple as you say?

kamaboko

June 1st, 2007, 05:26 PM

To answer the OP's question:

AutoCAD;
Create Flash animations;
Voice/web cam chat over Instant Messaging applications & Skype;
Use specialist written commercial software only available in Windows (e.g. engineering software that civil/structural engineering staff use at work - we use it a lot)
Business Accounting software;

And I would bet there are loads of other examples too. These are ones I have come across in my experience.

Exactamundo. Having worked in the accounting industry, I can say there are no enterprise level accounting applications in Linux.

forrestcupp

June 1st, 2007, 06:02 PM

Well, i guess i'm just one of the lucky linux users. After fooling around with the X server for a couple hours it still hasn't crashed. Linux is practically invincible.:D

Well, if your join date truly represents how long you've been using Linux, just give it some time. You just are very lucky; it's definitely not invincible. However, they are working on a "bullet-proof" x-server that will make it harder for x to crash.

When I first started using Linux, I had to reinstall countless times because I kept jacking my system up.

alanandhispc

June 1st, 2007, 06:05 PM

The one thing Windows can do incredibly well and linux will never be able to compete with:

BSOD.

;)

FFighter

June 1st, 2007, 06:27 PM

/agree.

Yep, I agree, too.

kamaboko

June 1st, 2007, 06:59 PM

The one thing Windows can do incredibly well and linux will never be able to compete with:

BSOD.

;)

I'll let the numbers speak with respect to competition. :rolleyes:

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=2

forrestcupp

June 1st, 2007, 07:08 PM

I'll let the numbers speak with respect to competition. :rolleyes:

http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid=2

Yeah, but that's market share. If you don't buy Linux, it doesn't count toward market share. If you buy a Windows system, erase Windows, and install Linux, it still counts toward Windows market share. It's pretty inaccurate in determining the number of actual users.

sophtpaw

June 1st, 2007, 08:12 PM

everytime this question comes up, and it does frequently, games and photoshop are the things that are mentioned. I would like to add that alot of other professional business applications do not run in Linux either.
If one is a broker/trader all the financial tools, for reading the markets etc are all Microsoft only applications (unfortunately)
hence i have ubuntu on teh desktop but xp on the laptop. (i still haven't figured out vmware or else i'd install that on my ubuntu laptop and run xp that way)

--
sophtpaw

kamaboko

June 1st, 2007, 08:31 PM

Yeah, but that's market share. If you don't buy Linux, it doesn't count toward market share. If you buy a Windows system, erase Windows, and install Linux, it still counts toward Windows market share. It's pretty inaccurate in determining the number of actual users.

OK...for the sake of argument, since you think the numbers are skewed, how many percentage points off are the numbers? 2% (which is generous)? You can't possibly believe Linux represents more than Mac which rolls in at nearly 4%.

forrestcupp

June 1st, 2007, 09:05 PM

OK...for the sake of argument, since you think the numbers are skewed, how many percentage points off are the numbers? 2% (which is generous)? You can't possibly believe Linux represents more than Mac which rolls in at nearly 4%.

No, but some numbers I've seen say Linux and Mac are about equal at around 3.8%. Still far under Window's 90 some percent.

azdragon

June 3rd, 2007, 05:38 PM

I have only been using a few days but this is what I found so far.

Can't Video chat with my friends on Yahoo
Can't run Quickbooks
Can't run Voipbuster
Can't change files on an NTFS Drive

There are other things I am trying to get working and they may work so I will save them for later.

afljafa

June 3rd, 2007, 05:46 PM

Delirious

July 1st, 2007, 12:18 AM

init1

July 1st, 2007, 01:46 AM

DishBreak

July 1st, 2007, 01:53 AM

RomeReactor

July 1st, 2007, 02:14 AM

I think that comparing a game console to an operating system is somewhat unfair (to the game console, that is :D)

GeeZor

July 1st, 2007, 02:20 AM

Nag about not being genuine ??? ;)

Up yours BILL!

]Nbx*cmD[

July 6th, 2007, 04:40 PM

What can Windows do? They hell know how to cheat people!

joe.turion64x2

July 6th, 2007, 04:44 PM

In Windows it is much more easy to become a pirate. In Linux there is not practically any need to do so.

Joe.

Hallvor

July 6th, 2007, 04:52 PM

In Windows it is much more easy to become a pirate. In Linux there is not practically any need to do so.

Joe.

:rolleyes:

Naike

August 5th, 2007, 01:00 PM

Well windows can bug and lag, linux not.

julian67

August 5th, 2007, 01:21 PM

Now that vista is out it can do DRM really well compared to linux ;)

Joking aside, what it comes down to for me, like others mentioned, is photoshop, games, a music player like foobar2000, EAC, and flac frontend(time to learn command line flac).

Those are probably the only things i miss, but i plan on getting around some of it by just useing xp in vmware and dual boot till i can find replacements.

EAC was a very important app for me. But if your drive doesn't cache audio then EAC has no advantage (in terms of extracting digital audio) over the rippers like grip or soundjuicer. And EAC runs perfectly under the latest wine (I use this just for those downloaded rips which arrive as cue + image). You don't really need to learn commandline flac, just use one of the mentioned rippers or SoundConverter or the audioconverter nautilus script. If you use KDE try audiokonverter (http://www.kde-apps.org/content/show.php?content=12608)

audiokonverter is a small utility to easily convert from OGG, MP3, AAC, M4A, FLAC, WMA, RealAudio, Musepack, Wavpack, WAV and movies to MP3, OGG, M4A, WAV and FLAC in Konqueror by right-clicking on them. It's an amazing tool.

@trophy

August 5th, 2007, 02:36 PM

If it WAS a pro, I would deal with gimp though, and save my money.

Well speaking as a professional, I've tried... hard... to switch to the GIMP, and I just can't do it. Even with GimpShop. I've just got too many years invested in learning all the keyboard shortcuts and whatnot in Photoshop. As far as differences between the two... there are things you can do in Photoshop that you can't do in the GIMP. Perspective, smart objects, and warp (not sure if you can do warp in the GIMP but I don't think you can) come to mind. How often do I use any of those? Next to never, but sometimes. And that's how they get you...
Anyways, the way I look at it is this: I have a lot of friends who pirate ALL their software. So for them it's as if everything's free (as in beer) even if it isn't. So, if you had the choice... I give you a copy of Photoshop or a copy of the GIMP, which would you choose?
For me, at least for the time being, Photoshop is still better, because I've had so much time invested in it, because there are classes for it at school, and every workplace uses it for all their graphics. Even if GIMP was 10x better, all of that would still be true. So if world domination is what they're after, they're going to have to get colleges to start teaching GIMP courses, and convincing companies to use the GIMP for their graphics work. Because until then Adobe will be getting all the graphics money in this sector of the galaxy.

Dimitriid

August 5th, 2007, 03:42 PM

Well speaking as a professional, I've tried... hard... to switch to the GIMP, and I just can't do it. Even with GimpShop. I've just got too many years invested in learning all the keyboard shortcuts and whatnot in Photoshop. As far as differences between the two... there are things you can do in Photoshop that you can't do in the GIMP. Perspective, smart objects, and warp (not sure if you can do warp in the GIMP but I don't think you can) come to mind. How often do I use any of those? Next to never, but sometimes. And that's how they get you...
Anyways, the way I look at it is this: I have a lot of friends who pirate ALL their software. So for them it's as if everything's free (as in beer) even if it isn't. So, if you had the choice... I give you a copy of Photoshop or a copy of the GIMP, which would you choose?
For me, at least for the time being, Photoshop is still better, because I've had so much time invested in it, because there are classes for it at school, and every workplace uses it for all their graphics. Even if GIMP was 10x better, all of that would still be true. So if world domination is what they're after, they're going to have to get colleges to start teaching GIMP courses, and convincing companies to use the GIMP for their graphics work. Because until then Adobe will be getting all the graphics money in this sector of the galaxy.

None of that will happen as long as "professionals" keep giving up like that with what basically comes to "No YOU go first and I'll follow, im too lazy"

People always bow down to corporations and that problem is bigger than just GNU/LInux and open software in general, an entire change of global paradigms is needed but I generally do not even see the will to change that mind set for the most part in people. Even if they make small concessions like "Ill dual boot Linux and Windows/Mac" they do not really want to be away from their comfortable place they are at.

Maybe we will have to wait until Adobe inevitably starts behaving like Microsoft and alienates their users like start charging you for whatever you create with their tools, scan your designs to make sure you're not incurring in any patent violation by drawing similar to corporation logos, charge you extra for "patented" colors etc. Then people will have more motivation to invest the time and change for good.

I just wish it wouldn't take that much deterioration in order for people to move on, I wish people would see that this will always be the results of monopolies and people locking you into their products, but I guess that is wishful thinking.

popch

August 5th, 2007, 04:41 PM

I just wish it wouldn't take that much deterioration in order for people to move on, I wish people would see that this will always be the results of monopolies and people locking you into their products, but I guess that is wishful thinking.

I think it quite understandable when someone who just uses the computer as a tool of his or her trade is not eager to change that tool without any pressing reasons.

In that situation, the price of the software license (even when paid for) just is not all that important in comparison with the price of lost productivity or even lost business while training to become proficient with a new tool.

The case of a swiss aircraft comes to mind which crashed because the pilots had learned their trade in russian aircraft and were flying one made in the U.S. or the EU. Under stress, they expected an instrument to show increasing values with the hands moving clockwise, but it did not, and so they steered the plane into the ground. Dont' know if it's true but it could have been that way.

Oh, and before anyone asks - that aircraft was not controlled by Windows.

cmat

August 5th, 2007, 04:50 PM

Gaming is not an issue, you easily realize that the games on Linux are quite entertaining. Heck that's what they were playing hours on end in the 80s at arcades (a place you actually leave your house to play video games). I occasionally play they Linux ones for kicks, but over the past few months it's rare. You can either be playing on a console or doing some things more constructive with your time. Pushing for gaming is wasted effort and throwing off the real priorities.

jeremy

August 5th, 2007, 05:06 PM

i am somewhat disappointed with linux, it doesn't crash nearly as well as windows, even when running wine! If only the blue screen of death was in the repos!

joe.turion64x2

August 5th, 2007, 08:20 PM

El Flauta

August 5th, 2007, 10:33 PM

I still with some Windows based software only for some task who gnu programas don't have.

Gimp have a serious lack of CYMK support, who makes it useless to pro print. And very small brushes only; i can't colorize a 3000x4000 pixel drawing well with it, and i feel the lack of +300 px brushes from Photoshop. But i'm waiting for the Gimp 3 version. However, Gimp is very good to small size pics, like web graphics, and have the better sharpen who i have seen :)

Gimp, Scribus, InkScape and other programs have another important lack, too: Text and font attributes, like kerning, traking, space between letters, words or lines. InkScape can't turn text into curves, too.

Print software don't have PANTONE support, too. But we knows that are a licence problem.

Programs like Sibelius, for music edit: Software like Rosengarden or Oxigen are good for pop composition, with loops, etc., but weak on work with "classical-like" scores. Lilypond looks well, but no intuitive: good to print, uncomfortable for compose.

Relly, are specific problems who i want to see solved in future. I trust on free software. Sadly, i'm not a programmer who can help.

Sorry for my english

phrostbyte

August 5th, 2007, 10:57 PM

GIMP is getting better

For me personally I don't know anything really that important that I can only do on Windows

ubuntuforums

August 9th, 2007, 08:08 AM

I'm a hardcore PC gamer (real games, that require a Dx9 GFX card), and at first that is what was preventing me from switching to Linux. But then I read so many articles and guides to getting games to work on Linux. So it gave me hope, now I'm loving my ubuntu experience (tried Suse previous). I just duel booted my system with xp/ubuntu. So until I can get my games full functional in Linux, I can still use ******* to do my gaming.

I've had very few problems using Ubuntu (thanks to these forums and google), the only major issue I had was getting my winmodem to work for when I'm not at home (got it working now). Everything so far seems to be rather easy and straight forward (following advice on this forum).

I still think that lack of real gaming in Linux is a big concern for a huge group of people, causing a lot of people to stick with ******* when they would otherwise likely switch to Linux. Although, I'm sure that there are more important issues that have to be worked on. One thing I'm not happy with is that my webcam isn't working (not yet anyways).

Well, I'm sticking with Ubuntu and XP for the moment. As soon as there is proper functionality implemented for gaming into a Linux OS, I will completely ditch *******.

ltk5

August 9th, 2007, 08:15 AM

Too bad linux doesn't have support for my mp3 (teac mp-450)...

andrew.46

August 9th, 2007, 09:53 AM

Hi:

I just been wondering what other users have found that windows is able to do that linux (more specifically ubuntu) cant do...

BSOD??

Andrew

meho_r

August 9th, 2007, 11:23 AM

Gimp, Scribus, InkScape and other programs have another important lack, too: Text and font attributes, like kerning, traking, space between letters, words or lines. InkScape can't turn text into curves, too.

Try (with Inkscape):
Alt+> and Alt+< for editing spacing between letters (whole word);
Alt+Left and Alt+Right to manually kern some letters;
Alt+Up and Alt+Down you can move letters up and down.

And, finally, Inkscape can convert text to curves with Ctrl+Shift+C (or Path > Object to Path).

I still think that combination: Gimp+Inkscape+Scribus+Xara Extreme is more than enough for any graphic task you may have ;) Add to this proprietary ArtRage (works good with wine) and you're the king :D I work on preparing books for press and designing book covers and use these apps only (with LaTeX for books, of course)...

hessiess

August 9th, 2007, 12:02 PM

What can Windows do that Linux can't?

crash lots and gaming:lolflag:

laxmanb

August 9th, 2007, 12:08 PM

sio2

August 21st, 2007, 07:40 AM

Ubuntu can't do Photoshop - and so what.

Photoshop is not for profs only for wonnabies. If you ask a grafik guy, if he want your new brochure as a photoshop file he will turn his eyes to the sky and politly say - no thanks, can you mail in some other filformat?

The thing is that real Photo pros use MAC and not PC's and windows.

So learn to use gimp, my kid (11 years) have used photoshop for a year and tried gimp yesterday, he said that gimp is a lot easier to use, and that is what he is going to use for the school projekt in the futur.

There is absolutly nothing that windows can do for me, that Ubuntu can't do better for me

karellen

August 21st, 2007, 08:01 AM

run an im program with webcam support/file transfer support/sharing etc

wersdaluv

August 21st, 2007, 10:50 AM

run an im program with webcam support/file transfer support/sharing etc

True

GFree678

August 21st, 2007, 10:55 AM

It can play BIOSHOCK!! AHHH!!

/sedative

jethro10

August 21st, 2007, 10:58 AM

.....Run our Pegasus Opera accounting software.

Linux can't run the clients for almost any accounting software.
That makes it dead in the water here, for 1/2 the pc's and similarly for others I feel.

J

forrestcupp

August 21st, 2007, 01:40 PM

It can play BIOSHOCK!! AHHH!!

/sedative

You're gonna make it, man.

Dark Star

August 21st, 2007, 02:01 PM

See Windows is too good for fools :lol: Like Windows has very good advantage like... Viruses, Trojans , Spys, BSOD .. Crashes , Hangs , Error reporting screen that appears after few minutes.. Sucking Updates Manager... and lots of B%$#$ more can be find there :lolflag:

Stringsy

August 21st, 2007, 02:20 PM

Just games really; if it wasn't for games then I'd likely be fully using Linux. Choice Windows apps could just be WINEd if need be.

Don't knock people making this decision... I love gaming so that's just the way the cookie crumbles.

eukhost.com

August 21st, 2007, 02:34 PM

Gaming is not possible on Linux. A lot of applications can be run on Linux using WINE but practically running all applications over WINE is a major restraint at times.

GFree678

August 21st, 2007, 02:43 PM

Gaming is not possible on Linux. A lot of applications can be run on Linux using WINE but practically running all applications over WINE is a major restraint at times.
Who says you have to play Windows games anyway? And what's with gaming not being possible on Linux? Where's the technical limitation?

You're gonna make it, man.
I'm fine, was just poking fun at myself. Still typing with my Linux rig, haven't touched a thing. In any case, I feel better reading other people's comments and realizing how much this computer doesn't compare to a "modern" gaming rig, and since it's still perfectly good hardware and I'm not even considering upgrading just to play a damn game, I feel good. :)

glupee

August 21st, 2007, 05:04 PM

Gaming and more importantly to me, my tv card :(
I'm going to have to switch to dual boot. I've been trying to avoid it, but i really wanna play some better games. Unfortunately dual boot isn't an option for my tv card because it defeats the purpose in my eyes. I like to browse, chat or whatever else while i'm watching tv... don't want to do those things in windows also can't record shows now :mad: which really sucks.. aw well linux is still better :)

Patrick793

August 21st, 2007, 05:07 PM

Something Windows can do that other operating systems can't.
http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/604/onethingmacscantdohn2.png
Crash badly.

diffuze

August 21st, 2007, 05:15 PM

Gaming. Both "real" games and online flash/shockwave kill-some-time-type-of-games (some sites/games work, some don't).
Other than that, nothing that I can think of right now.

BDNiner

August 21st, 2007, 05:20 PM

Some websites don't load properly. Especially ones with flash. The flash plugin is set to always on top. So some drop down menus will drop down behind the flash plugin. Most important to me is the lack of hardware support. Getting everything to work properly was a pain.

joe.turion64x2

August 21st, 2007, 09:11 PM

BDNiner

August 22nd, 2007, 01:20 AM

I don't have that problem with either of my windows computers. But i have it on my ubuntu and opensuse computers in both firefox and opera. I thought it was just a linux problem.

vambo

August 22nd, 2007, 01:26 AM

Turn a perfectly good computer into a paperweight. :lolflag:

Caffeine_Junky

August 22nd, 2007, 01:37 AM

...put itself into the recycle-bin, then ask you "are you sure you want to delete Windows?"

HA!! ...<reboot>

jdrodrig

August 22nd, 2007, 01:40 AM

Ubuntu can't do Photoshop - and so what.

Sio2: This kind of attitude does no good to the reputation of the community....the thread is about positive statements, ie. what can Windows do that linux cant, is not about *normative* statement ie. should you run such programs or not...

leave those statements for the appropriate thread..(e.g. is GIMP better than Photoshop?)

Of course, the thread has the implicit goal that if somebody knows of a substitute software or patch it can be mentioned but with a positive attitude not implying obvious superiority of one option over the other

jdrodrig

August 22nd, 2007, 01:43 AM

Linux cannot -to the best of my knowledge- run OneNote 2007, that *I* find very useful and with a powerfull integration with Outlook

kirios

August 22nd, 2007, 01:47 AM

The only reason I'm still dual-booting is that I need to run SPSS at work.

ahkond

August 22nd, 2007, 04:24 AM

The "killer app" preventing me from shutting down my Windows box completely is RadioSHARK. This is a USB radio antenna peripheral controlled by (windows-only) software to do scheduled recording of FM radio shows. I know that some people have managed to use the same peripheral on Linux, but I don't have the chops. I have also tried using arecord and a direct "line in" cable connection, and that didn't work either. (see my posts in other forum threads for details)

So my current method is:

1. every day my Windows box records my favorite radio show, to .wma format
2. I import the file into iTunes, thereby converting it to .mp3
3. I copy the mp3 file to my Linux box (for the past few weeks I was using samba, but then samba stopped working for no reason and now I copy the files one at a time with a jump drive, swapping back and forth manually)
4. then I import the mp3 into rhythmbox on Linux
5. then I use rhythmbox to copy the file onto my ipod
6. then I go about my business for the day

All in all, very frustrating.

-a

Mach1US

August 22nd, 2007, 02:44 PM

I keep windows for some free windows only little aps and games , niche networking software i need for school and some video playback like Netflix movies which exclusively needs IE to show in darn DRM .:mad:

Lividity

August 23rd, 2007, 09:18 PM

Run my scanner with a nice little tool from cannon that I could probably get running under wine but I'm too lazy.

Run games that I can probably run under wine but again I've been lazy. Yes Microshaft will do anything to continue to keep it's strangle hold on that market.

Start decaying for no apparent reason no matter how much system maintenance you put into it.

Bill you for buggy software.

To Microsoft's credit there are some services found in windows that I have yet to find in linux.

Windows can provide you with the Blue Screen Of Death service. Ask your fellow windows users about this gem. You're playing a game. The screen is now blue wtf is going on? The BSOD pwns you.

Get infected with viruses and malware not matter how well the computer is maintained. Yes, that's right, your box will be more infected than a Tijuana hooker's. Microshaft brings the Hooker service to the table when you least expect it.

There's the crashes without provocation Abracadabra service. Your hardware is great. You maintain your computer like the cyber kaiser that you are. You're on that last line of your resume, forgot to periodically save, and hadn't discovered openoffice.org yet. !Abracadabra! *POOF* the computer is now off !?! <insert gross wanton swearing here> After using all of your brainpower and computer wizardry you must stand in awe of the hidden Abracadabra service because despite your best efforts your work is truly gone.

The Distrust service. Your first computer was a dell. It came with a copy of windows. Microshaft is paranoid and wants to verify the validity of your windows key. Ok, no biggie, the disk is legit. I don't have a genuine copy of windows? I'm looking at the disk. It's been in my closet for about a year. I got the product key off the side of my dell? Now my operating system doesn't work better call Microsoft.

There's the Willpower Builder/ Personal Wellbeing service. After experiencing one of the services above you may have some adverse effects. There will be time when you feel like the best course of action is to ram your fist through your monitor or attack your computer like it was the fax machine in the movie office space. Breath in breath out we'll get through this, stress builds character.

The Cuss Word Enhancing service. Enrich the lives of those around you while you yell swear words with greater frequency than 10 drunken sailors at an inanimate object. Your verbal assault may make you feel better at the time but you'll feel like an imbecile later.

stinger30au

August 23rd, 2007, 09:59 PM

hahahaha that was a funny read

Shibby73

October 5th, 2007, 10:57 PM

This thread has become too long and filled with funny things that are not productive.
But I'll add my continuing reason for dual booting into WinXP anyway.

Inability to obtain secure remote access to my work network:
Electronic Health Records & Sharepoint Server
Using Citrix & Juniper Networks.

It isn't supported here. But supposedly using a MAC and Vista is supported?
That is frustrating...

-Steve (Shibby73)
smorrea(:mad:@nospam@nospam)@stansgnosticus.net

UI-Freak

October 6th, 2007, 03:31 AM

DoctorMO

October 6th, 2007, 04:35 AM

I actually installed Linux because I was curious about Scribus and Inkscape, but now they are both available for Windows, and guess why... thats where the USERS are! But still, they are inferior to professional software. If you are poor, its great. If you are professional, you will use professional software.

I hate you already, not because you insult me personally as a programmer for inkscape, or as a dedicated free software supporter but as a human being because you sir fail to follow the basic rules of an argument and have just completed a troll rant which would on news sites qualify you as flame of the week.

The fact is that we develop this software because there is demand, if I had my way I would remove all windows versions of FOSS programs because windows users treat us with such disrespect and derision if your attitude is anything to go by.

Ultimately I'm not asking you to move to linux because it's better technically (it is) or because it offers more features (it does) but because it's the only moral choice you have and choosing anything else should leave you with the gut wrenching guilt that in harming the IT industry you deserve.

As for your petty 'pro' apps, I've tried a lot of them in vector art, Corel Draw, Illustrator and even some cad programs, none of them compare to inkscape in ease of use or in the ability to create plugins. Could I Imagen writing a program to selectively colour in a map based on a ods sheet data through Illustrator? god it makes me feel queezy just thinking about it.

You assessment is flawed, biased, rude and not wanted or needed here, please go away.

RomeReactor

October 6th, 2007, 10:20 AM

Software for Linux is just inferior.

Without professional software an OS is useless!
Those are probably the most senseless, uneducated words I've heard all month long. There are plenty of professional people who are productive in Linux. Don't pretend your situation applies to everyone.

Now I just maintain the installation until I dare remove the partition.
Soooo... You just posted here to troll? I'm sorry if that offends you, but that's the way it sounds to me.

And I always boot Windows now because the software for Linux can't do what I need it to do.
It's been said many times:
Linux is not for everybody
and:
Linux is not windows
If you can't be productive using Linux, use whatever works for you. But please don't bash another OS when it doesn't meet your needs. If you had meant it in jest, I wouldn't have given your comments a second thought; but the tone of your post is serious, so there's no excuse.

GSF1200S

October 6th, 2007, 10:56 AM

Granted, this is the community cafe, but whats happening to this community? We all have an interest in Ubuntu and/or Linux, so why do we have to have the 'tone.'

Im not saying to give up your perspective, but at least come to an agreement of the fact you cannot agree... This forum seems to be a little more confrontational as of late....

RomeReactor

October 6th, 2007, 11:24 AM

GSF1200S

October 6th, 2007, 11:31 AM

I don't have a problem amicably disagreeing with someone who makes their point in a cordial manner, or with someone that's joking; the issue I personally have with this is the confrontational and frankly insulting way in which UI-Freak chose to convey that message.

Ok cool- so then what I said applies to him too. Its hard to not be blunt/cold/confrontational when you feel ignorance is taking place, but we just need to realize that once conflict reaches a certain stage, it no longer lives to serve the answer, instead serving to simply win regaurdless of truth or logic.

I see what youre saying, and im pretty sure UI-freek has some points to- just realize its the answer thats most important, and at least for me, that eliminates any need for a tone to be carried...

Take it easy ;)

marco123

October 6th, 2007, 12:34 PM

In my experience the only things that Windows could do that my Ubuntu installation can't/doesn't is: Slow down over time, crash and require vast amounts of maintenance just to run smoothly. Windows can also never be safe no matter how much you spend on security software.

I'm one of the lucky ones though that has compatible hardware, owns a console for gaming (Halo3 ftw) and can do everything and more on Linux.:)

eljoeb

October 6th, 2007, 12:49 PM

pt123

October 6th, 2007, 12:58 PM

I actually like the fact there are Windows versions of Gimp and Inkscape. It makes it a lot easier to try out Linux when you are already familiar with some of the applications.

A lot of people cry about the software is not professional enough, and why they use Adobe. Then you see their pieces of work, and its embarrassing.

I have no problem with actual professional graphic designers using Adobe, because they are making enough money to pay $1000 for their "tools".

What is important is for the Linux user base to grow (which Ubuntu has propelled) as this has made an incentive, for hardware makers to give provide better support and software developers to port their applications.

If Linux can can climb to 10-15% of desktop users, it will change software & hardware landscape like Firefox did with Web design. Before most web developers will design web pages that are IE compliant, now they design one that is Firefox complaint and then add IE hacks. Which has also forced IE to become more standards compliant.

BTW I love Inkscape, keep up the good work.

GSF1200S

October 6th, 2007, 01:04 PM

I need Windows for work and games. Gaming is in no way acceptable in Linux. Casual? Maybe. I wish popcap's games would work better in wine, but anyway. Trying to make my company use Linux was... an unmitigated disaster. Can you say... holy shint I'm glad I had a backup.

With as much time as I spend on my Linux install, I realize all I'm doing is web browsing, trying to make open office's formatting work, listening to music, and changing the theme. Now that I think of it, I have no real use for Linux, and am actually much more productive on Windows. I really like Office 2007... especially OneNote and Groove. Do any programs like those exist on Linux that aren't web based?

In some cases that may be true. Trying to learn programming and web design is alot easier for me on Linux, namely because of Katapult, compiz, and KDEs plethora of options. It allows me to organize things. Its predictable, its fast, its just awesome. That said, there are definitely situations where Windows owns Linux (games, office, photoshop). I will say though, 5 years from now I can almost bet it will be a different story. Linux has closed the gap on missing applications.. and it wont be too long where even the big commercial apps are trumped by OSS competitors. And even if not, they may very well be supporting Linux as well as Windows with these apps.

As an OS, Linux owns Windows on every front. Windows owns Linux in the application department. I dont need photoshop or MS Office- gimp and OOo work for me. For everything I need, Linux's apps are actually better (Outlook? Pfhh.. Kontact is FAR better). Firefox, kontact, kopete, amarok, katapult, quanta plus, and konversation just to name a few.

I have strangely gotten tired of the letter K though ;)

joe.turion64x2

October 6th, 2007, 04:16 PM

In some cases that may be true. Trying to learn programming and web design is alot easier for me on Linux, namely because of Katapult, compiz, and KDEs plethora of options. It allows me to organize things. Its predictable, its fast, its just awesome. That said, there are definitely situations where Windows owns Linux (games, office, photoshop). I will say though, 5 years from now I can almost bet it will be a different story. Linux has closed the gap on missing applications.. and it wont be too long where even the big commercial apps are trumped by OSS competitors. And even if not, they may very well be supporting Linux as well as Windows with these apps.

As an OS, Linux owns Windows on every front. Windows owns Linux in the application department. I dont need photoshop or MS Office- gimp and OOo work for me. For everything I need, Linux's apps are actually better (Outlook? Pfhh.. Kontact is FAR better). Firefox, kontact, kopete, amarok, katapult, quanta plus, and konversation just to name a few.

I have strangely gotten tired of the letter K though ;)
I have found Evolution FAR better than Outlook (not talking only about Express).

Guys, you'd better take easy the comments of UI-freak. When you are ignorant about how to use something, of course you are nonproductive, and rather frustrated. That is his situation here.

Earthwormzim

October 9th, 2007, 05:16 PM

Run Visual Studio. Yes, I know, there are plenty of other IDE's out there, but I'm still a newb programmer. Visual Studio is several orders of magnitude easier than any other IDE. I've tried at least ten of them, ranging from Kdevelop, to Monodevelop, to Eclipse...and the significant difference between all those others and Visual Studio is: You install Visual Studio, and...IT JUST WORKS!!! Which is fantastic.

Now...with the others...you have to download third-party libraries, set up path variables (all just to do as incredibly simple a task as setting up a window!)...and who knows what else. I've had to spend hours upon hours pouring over numerous websites in search of good tutorials for beginners to each IDE.

Yes, I know...more experienced programmers probably don't think that the other IDE's are difficult at all to use...but that is because they are experienced. Someday...maybe I'll get to that level, and those IDE's will be easier for me. But as for now...I'm still a beginner, and as a beginner, Visual Studio is where it's at.

Also...I'm looking at getting a job for a company that only develops in C#. Now, what do you suppose they use to develop their software? Mono or Visual Studio? Take a wild guess.

Darkagentx

October 10th, 2007, 12:29 AM

I can agree here, namely when I need it for VB.NET.
However I've used eclipse for other languages before I picked up ubuntu, and was delighted to see it available. Absolutely love it.

Earthwormzim

October 11th, 2007, 03:45 PM

Also...I'm looking at getting a job for a company that only develops in C#. Now, what do you suppose they use to develop their software? Mono or Visual Studio? Take a wild guess.

Correction: I GOT THE JOB!!! WOOOOOOHOOOOOOO! Just had the interview today, and I start in late November. Not that anyone cares...I'm just a little ecstatic. Haha! Imagine that...me, a real-deal developer! W00t!

I guess now the real learning begins!

popch

October 11th, 2007, 03:48 PM

Correction: I GOT THE JOB!!! WOOOOOOHOOOOOOO! Just had the interview today, and I start in late November. Not that anyone cares...I'm just a little ecstatic. Haha! Imagine that...me, a real-deal developer! W00t!

I guess now the real learning begins!

Congrats!

:guitar:

AU5513-G33K

June 9th, 2008, 01:59 PM

I find that there are alternatives to nearly every program that Windows has in Ubuntu and it is much easier to access and use. I have Photoshop running via Wine atm and a couple of other Windows programs which I preffered the GUI. The only program I have had trouble with running so far is Call of Duty 4 as Punkbuster doesn't support Linux nor will it run in Wine.

mashcaster

June 11th, 2008, 09:46 AM

This will not work on Linux:
http://2dfighter.com/

A thread about it here: http://2dfighter.com/forums/p/134/1870.aspx#1870

randipoling

June 12th, 2008, 07:34 PM

the only upsides to Windows for me is the ability to double click on a .exe and it installs (I'm new to linux, so I'll get used to commands over time). Also, gaming. I;m a big gamer, I tend to play Counterstrike and HALO and NAscar Racing 2003 Season along with others, so I need windows to play those. Also, If it was possible to get a version of Yahoo MEssenger 9 to run on linux...along with the new AIM, and possibly new MSN, thatd pull me further away from windows. I also like using Photoshop and Illustrator (Taking classes for hem in college aswell) so if I could get that software to run on linux aswell (Along with Microsoft office, just nbecause I'm used to using it all the time,a long with Visio for my programming logic class I took). Other then those things, I'd be a die hard linux user 24/7.:(

Lim-Dul

June 13th, 2008, 03:31 PM

Well - I'm a video game journalist and professional translator so I think you see where this post might be going. ^^
The former is clear but the latter also doesn't show Linux' strong sides. OSS apps like OmegaT(+) or Open Language Tools just can't live up to the commercial (and sadly very expensive) CAT programs like STAR Transit or SDL Trados on Windows. Also, since my profession requires a lot of text editing I'm a very advanced office user and although it is true that OpenOffice.org is a fine replacement for MS Office for every-day use you'll find that it is still lacking in features when you go deeper into all the options - I've been trying to adapt to it for a whole year and haven't felt a greater relief for a long time after having gone back to MS Office. ;-)

Other than that I find that Linux, especially the newer distros like Ubuntu, PCLinuxOS, Dreamlinux and Mint (which I'm currently on), is quite good for basic desktop use. Problems appear only when you have to perform advanced tasks, when Linux sadly shows its 40-year old unintuitive, complicated, "written by different people" Unix-like nature. Also, while the kernel and the system itself are both stable and secure, all the things that are shoved on top of them (by that I mean all the other FOSS packages maintained by thousands of coders) are quite buggy and unstable - even in their "stable" versions. I have yet to see a more advanced Linux app (I'm not speaking exclusively about GUI apps) that doesn't have at least some minor quirks that are visible right from the start. Yes, you get to choose what you install in Linux but you WILL have to install a lot of things if you want to have a full-featured desktop OS and then problems are inevitable. Even though this might sound like a blasphemous comment in this regard Linux isn't very different from Windows, in which the healthy kernel, vaguely based on legendary VMS, is brought down by loads of crap running on top.

Simple examples: mounting a Samba share from anther Linux server took me several hours because for some unknown reason the "unix extensions = no" configuration setting didn't work properly (even though Samba was saying otherwise) while the "nounix" mount parameter DID work and I had to try all the possible solutions before zooming in on the problem.

Not to mention the numerous X.org bugs and the problems people are having with it - solutions that work on one computer don't work on another, almost identical machine etc.

On a lighter note: What else can Windows do? Play the shutdown sound because it doesn't turn off the soundcard before playing it (yes, I fixed that in Linux =). NOT turn off the network before unmounting network shares which adds like 30 seconds to the shutdown procedure (fixed that one as well ;-).

In the end I'm still in love with the current Linux distros and for every problem they have I could probably list another one I had with Windows at some point in time. Even though I settled for Mint I tried Ubuntu Hardy Heron (which Mint 5 is based on) and was impressed by the progress it has made since Edgy Eft - the last version of this distro I was running.

For me Linux still isn't and probably never will be a system that can fully replace Windows as a desktop OS - it can do that only if you're either a very basic desktop user or a very advanced user with specific needs (like a programmer). In my opinion it's still very much a system for tinkerers because as long as it works it works fine but when things start to get pear-shaped there's simply NO WAY the average computer user could even begin to guess how to fix any given problem without asking a "guru".

The paradox here is that it COULD become a full Windows replacement if commercial software made its way onto the system but for that to happen it needs more popularity which won't be gained by distro evolution alone, given the still stunningly low (for its quality) desktop market share. It is still very hard to convince any business executives to try out FOSS alternatives because they don't speak the same language - things developed with zeal and passion don't appeal to them. They want a product that somebody is making money off because then they'll know that it will have stricter quality control and a dedicated support staff. It doesn't matter if FOSS alternatives are better or worse until they'll be able to switch from one OS to another smoothly, e.g. by running the same software at first and only later discovering viable OSS options.

Having said all of the above: I spend more time on Linux than on Windows nowadays, the latter I use only for gaming and my work (which is the same thing, sometimes =) because I find the system more elegant, responsive and prettier (in its GUI version, of course) than any given Windows version and I've been using the NT line since NT 3.1. I also didn't have any problems with Vista (except for the NVIDIA drivers that crash when I try to watch certain video formats -.-) so have no reason to hate this system or spread anti-Microsoft venom.
I also use Linux on all my network devices which contributed to a me gaining some knowledge about fixing things the command-line way which helps in GUI-based distros as well.

In my opinion there's no great conflict between Windows and Linux - both systems have its place and can coexist peacefully (if it weren't for some zealots who like to spread hate and venom all the time - I'm speaking of both sides). For specialized applications like servers Linux is, hands down, the better OS but for desktop usage Windows is still the way to go, for software compatibility if not for anything else, even though I regard it as good practice to dual-boot with any given Linux distro (even during the times when I wasn't dual-booting I kept carrying SLAX on a flash drive around with me, which I do till this day :-D). The choice to run a Linux-only computer seems more ideological than practical to me and viable only if you really don't need Windows AT ALL in your line of work. A bit like the anti-globalization movement fighting McDonald's... I for my part am in no way ideologically biased - at least when it comes to the choice of my OS which I regard as a tool, no less so than a hammer. Choose whatever you like, spread love and EDUCATE people about Linux, unite, not divide - isn't this what Ubuintu is all about - especially given its logo?. Just don't turn into a militant zealot writing Microsoft with a "$" sign and jump on the irrational Windows is crap and inferior in every aspect bandwagon because misguided hate and anger only cause unnecessary conflicts and you end up being no better than people burning the American flag (or Americans invading Iraq, for that matter =).

As for toppling the Redmond Giant - I want to see that happening some day because competition is always good for the end user. However, I believe that it will take a revolution and not evolution to do that. Unix-like systems have been developed for around 40 years now and they still show no signs of rapid growth in the desktop market sector - no matter how loudly Linux proponents are shouting and trying to convince everybody of their OS'es superiority or spreading anti-MS venom. I'm dreaming of a new, awesome OS that would be stable, secure, fast, intuitive and compatible with any software or hardware you might throw at it. And then I wake up. ;-)

OK - I'll end my lengthy post on an ideological note as well. Why do people hate Microsoft so much? They only care about money? Well, hello? It's not a charity - it's a company and companies make money. Unfair market practices - sure. No large concern is free from guilt but that's why we have laws and why Microsoft lost many lawsuits. If you want to blame somebody for Windows' prevalence in today's world then blame our money-driven capitalistic society, not Microsoft, which is just an organization that seems to know particularly well how to survive in this environment. (Do I sound too much like a Marxist? Well, I AM more of a lefty myself. ^^)
I haven't seen Microsoft's unfair market practices killing anybody, though...

Also, I don't think Bill Gates is in any way evil either. I mean - not for everybody money is the measure of success in life but surely we can't call him a complete failure. He's the very definition of the self-made man and he spends BILLIONS on charity - publicity stunt, you say? Maybe, but nobody forces him to act like that - how much have YOU spent on charity? At the same time I see Mark Shuttleworth spending $20 million on a space-flight. You see - there is ALWAYS more than one side to the story because nothing in the world is just black and white - if it is to you, then you're probably a member of the KKK ;-). There isn't ONE best OS - it might be only the best one for you.

a1z

June 14th, 2008, 03:47 AM

I still have to stay with XP because I need to edit large documents (doc, txt, rtf) and Ubuntu cannot open them while XP can after a short delay.
Any advice is appreciated.

Related thread:
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=828585

Thanks!

markbuntu

June 15th, 2008, 02:23 AM

The difference between linux and windows is a classic time/money equation. Do you have the time to get linux to do what you want or would you just rather spend money on windows. The parameters have changed a little with vista being such a nightmare but the equation remains basically the same.

Wobblybob

June 15th, 2008, 08:53 PM

Who cares? I certainly will never go back to find out!

quinnten83

June 17th, 2008, 12:30 PM

barbedsaber

June 17th, 2008, 12:35 PM

nufink, except MS publisher, but who uses that anyway?

woodsrider250

June 18th, 2008, 05:16 PM

What can Windows do that Linux can't?

Have an everyday user browse the web, and view everything. If content comes along that the browser doesn't support, any schmoe will be prompted for an install that intuitively works.

This is my biggest gripe about Linux currently. Ubuntu has come a long way, .DEB's help a lot.

I would be pushing this stuff like nobody's business for a general home user...If you could install it and have it work without having to jump through hoops to see everyday web content...That includes after installing the restricted extras. It has potential to be a great solid OS for the home (spyware king/queen) user that really just surfs/IM's/Emails/Card n puzzle games. This is why mac's sell. (hate them)

prince_of_hackers

June 19th, 2008, 09:40 PM

I take a lot of online classes that use websites that require specialized ActiveX controls to work - to date I haven't found any way to get things like this to work under any variant of Linux. I even tried using IETab under Firefox on Windows and it crashes both browsers when the controls load. I think that is still the biggest problem with whole conversion to Linux, and it covers the gaming issue too: Until commercial developers start to develop code that is portable and uses open standards, support for their products under operating systems they weren't designed for will be difficult. Heck, even my Linux+ class came with test prep software that was designed for .NET! I hacked it to work under Linux, but it wasn't very stable, and involved installing it first under Windows to get the .NET executables extracted properly.

However, for something that Linux can do for Windows that Windows can't: If you have ever had an old program designed for Windows 3.x or Windows 9x, (I had a church that used an old accounting program that wouldn't run under XP) try running it under WINE. WINE's legacy support is MUCH better than Windows.

CheShA

June 20th, 2008, 12:44 AM

Blackberry support under Linux sucks.

CheShA

June 20th, 2008, 12:49 AM

I disagree,
Pay me the money, and I will make sure that Ubuntu does what you want it to do...

Exactly - if it comes to it, wouldn't you rather pay a guy who lives round the corner to sort out your Linux than have your money disappear into a giant sack in Redmond?

leemajors

June 20th, 2008, 06:43 AM

I *want* to be able to use Ubuntu and never have to use Windows again.

Currently, I've found a replacement for pretty much every application I use under windows on Ubuntu 8.04, with one notable exception: Adobe Flash.

I'm a web developer, and while I do most of my work at work, on a PC, I still do some stuff at home. And I need to be able to use Flash. I wish I didn't have to, but I do, regardless of how many of you might say "flash sux, don't use it." The simple fact is that clients have sites built in it, and they need me to make changes to them.

Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find anyone who'll tell me if Flash CS3 is working well under WINE yet. When it does, I'll switch completely.

Until then, I'll be dual-booting into Windows for all my Flash editing needs.

Roasted

June 21st, 2008, 05:46 AM

I like being able to full screen youtube videos without it freezing.

XP offers that.
Ubuntu does not.

Yes, it's a flash problem, I understand... but nonetheless, it's a bottleneck to my enjoyment with Linux itself. I love Linux, and I love being able to use samba on it to back up my entire LAN as well as rsync to copy that information to additional drives on my system. But nonetheless, I can't do certain simple things that just make the whole computing experience... better.

And don't even get me started on DVD playback. Wow. What a nightmare.

My core is set on Linux 100%. But there's a reason I still use XP a lot. And until Ubuntu (and Flash) irons out these issues, I shall use XP for what Ubuntu lacks.

ad_267

June 21st, 2008, 05:57 AM

I think the title of the thread is a bit misleading. It should be more like "What is there support for in Windows that isn't in Linux?" Because Linux itself could do all of this stuff if the software publishers/hardware manufacturers would support Linux. And I reckon it could do it better.

oxxxid

June 22nd, 2008, 08:17 PM

Windows can do 2 things that Linux can't. The first is supporting softwares developed by Adobe and the other is giving major headaches with security flaws and general instability :P

LaRoza

June 22nd, 2008, 08:20 PM

Windows can do 2 things that Linux can't. The first is supporting softwares developed by Adobe and the other is giving major headaches with security flaws and general instability :P

Au contrair, Adobe supports Windows only (there is nothing special about Windows there) :-)

7aji88

June 23rd, 2008, 02:28 AM

Another thing.. there might be some scanners that wont work with ubuntu. But I think feistys support is better in this department.

Ironically I have a scanner that works with Ubuntu but doesn't with Vista (that's what hp said on their web page)
The most thing that Linux can't do for me is "gaming". Also I find each platform (Linux, Windows, Mac etc) has its own professional programs and uses; Windows got games, professional video, audio, pictures programs with a lot of manufactures programs that comes with specific hardware witch is the same story with OS X, and it got viruses and spyware. MacOSX like Windows has professional programs for production, "iLife" with a high price tag, and let's not forget, Steve Jobs approval for being "COOL". Finally Linux got a solid foundation for being a secure server platform, free to use in most cases, great for school releated stuff, and a safe place to test suspected .exe files before using them on Windows (the last one is just for me maybe :lolflag: )
sorry it was too long

You can run PS with Wine but it's just not the same as running native on a Mac or Windows. And I miss that.

klange

June 23rd, 2008, 02:38 AM

jdunn

June 23rd, 2008, 03:05 AM

What can Windows do that Linux can't?

a BSOD?
I'm talking about a real one.

Mach1US

June 23rd, 2008, 09:04 PM

Open site that are programmed for IE only, very few of them but still...

Firehalk

June 24th, 2008, 02:35 PM

I tried Linux some months ago, maybe some stuff are different. I know the community of it works hard to fix and set everything, so maybe already changed. But I remember i tried to run Photoshop using Wine and it was really impossible to use. I don't remember exactly all bugs that happened, but of course, many filters and even those windows of photoshop, weren't working good.

So people say "Photoshop why? It has GIMP". Unfortunatly, we don't live on a word with dwarfs and fairies. The real thing (and sad thing) is that because of the way market works around the world, we are forced to use payed programs on most of the places people work in. So even if you like GIMP, and GIMP is much better on something here and there, when you sit on your work computer, you will use Photoshop.

Imagine that you work in a group of people and you need to give them support... 3 people use Photoshop and you use GIMP. Whats easier? 3 changing their way of work or you focus on Photoshop to help them? I see it as the main problem with the open source community. Because there is a massive use of payed tools, many of people simply are obligated to use it. And unless you have 2 computers for you in home, Linux on some cases turns to the second option of people (dual-boot) or on the worst case, people simply ignore the existance of it.

I would really like to fully migrate to Linux, but because of all that situation, I simply can't. I would have to re-learn many things (as people did when started to use Windows), but the problem is, nowadays we lack of time, so it's kind of tough do that. When I say re-learn, I mean replace for opensource solutions the programs people use on Windows.

Sorry the big text. Well, if wasn't that problem, I would think that Linux can do anything.

arandomkiwi

June 29th, 2008, 11:11 PM

very little considering linux has WINE

arandomkiwi

June 29th, 2008, 11:15 PM

Open site that are programmed for IE only, very few of them but still...

IE tab is a addon for firefox that opens a page designed for IE in firefox by right clicking on a link and selecting 'open in IE tab' and it works very well

hetbeest

June 29th, 2008, 11:20 PM

ad_267

June 29th, 2008, 11:25 PM

Windows can print.

Linux can to, but no photo quality from my Canon Pixma iP5000. And don't start talking about Turboprint. Pay for software? And even then, I still have to define paper sizes myself to print borderless?! :confused: That's the main reason I keep my dual boot.

Don't get a Canon then. Canon hardly supports Linux at all. Get an HP and then you can print just fine.

This isn't a limitation of Linux but a limitation of Canon.

upchucky

June 29th, 2008, 11:32 PM

Some things that Windows can do and Ubuntu or Linux cant do is...

Run code on your system without telling you about it.
Run code on your system without you telling it to run.
Totally frag your drives when it hangs.
Report you to whomever when you ask it to do something that someone else thinks you should not be doing.(this may be or was supposed to be fixed subject to a court order against Microsoft and Intel).
Update/add stuff to itself whether you want it or not.
Corrupt itself over time by messing with it's own registry.
Get so fragmented and slow that a complete reinstall is required to make it work.
Force you to spend a fortune to keep the money pit of an operating system functional by purchasing third party software to "fix" broken windows.
Make you spend countless hours just maintaining your system that you do not have time to actually use the system.

Did I miss anything?

RiceMonster

June 30th, 2008, 12:16 AM

very little considering linux has WINE

Yes, but Wine doesn't run all windows programs smoothly.

micahkoga

July 3rd, 2008, 02:06 AM

download music from rhapsody

HappyHenry

July 3rd, 2008, 04:47 AM

I just stoped dual booting one week ago and now only have Ubuntu.
Games: yeah seems an issue but since i kicked windonts habit im having plenty of fun with linux games and discovering how to install my favorite commercial games so I really dont miss windonts like i thought i would. So my experience is whatever windonts can do dosen't matter to me since i commited myself to Linux/Ubuntu
Videos: huh, I have no problems there. All online stuff works for me. I did go through a post for video sound issues that really is great. Ill come back and try to link it.
I find Windonts is like all my other bad habits. The worst part is using it and fearing life with out it. Then, in reality, after kicking the habit, i find that windonts was really keeping me and my computer from doing more than I ever knew we could. Yes we are now good friends again without my addiction coming between us. lol
So i guess to answer your question,
What can windonts do that Linux wont.? Turn me into a monkey punching buttons in a commercial experiment. LOL Just IMO. I know many Windonts admins are just as smart, some are even my friends, as Linux folks. But it seems all levls of Linux users are willing to share there knowledge where as Windonts seem to want you to beleave you must be blessed by the Gates gods and have there mark before they will share with you. But hmm maybe im pre judging here, lol.
well ill put down the coffee and M&Ms so i can stop the rant.

pferpaddy

July 3rd, 2008, 04:54 AM

HappyHenry

July 3rd, 2008, 05:10 AM

The post that will solve almost any video probs you may have is;
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=766683
After following this I have no probs with any video.
I was wondering, why does it seem that just because Linux/Ubuntu is free we sometimes get to thinking, pulling out a couple bucks(50-100) for an emulator is taboo and think Wine is the only option?? Shoot the way i see it I've saved myself well over, what, $20,000.00 if you consider the seven versions of Windonts I had purchased, but never will need to again. Plus the four computers to keep up with windonts hunger. Shoot I think I will feel just find spending $100.00 once a year for a cross over emulator if i need to, compaired to my life before with windonts.
Whats so bad about paying for emulator if it keeps windonts out of our lives?

cometa2k7

July 3rd, 2008, 11:14 PM

Run slowly, crash or hang whenever you come to do any work?

Destroy itself - at least with Linux you actually have to try to break your system, and it doesn't just do it to itself.

davidpeace

July 3rd, 2008, 11:43 PM

Frustrate and annoy me at the same time!

cometa2k7

July 4th, 2008, 10:51 AM

Make a fairly high-spec computer run slower than a really old computer running Linux. :lolflag:

Roasted

July 6th, 2008, 06:38 PM

I like being able to put a DVD in my computer, and it magically work.

Even with DVD support, I have weird issues. Scratchy audio, unsynched audio to video, etc.

Makes me sad.

ad_267

July 7th, 2008, 07:38 AM

I like being able to put a DVD in my computer, and it magically work.

Even with DVD support, I have weird issues. Scratchy audio, unsynched audio to video, etc.

Makes me sad.

DVD playback even in windows is pretty crappy and I know a lot of people use vlc on Windows because of this.

cometa2k7

July 7th, 2008, 08:31 PM

DVD playback even in windows is pretty crappy and I know a lot of people use vlc on Windows because of this.

Yeah, Windows Media Player is rebbish for DVD, or any video really. And mine always skips a bit in a song, no matter what.

Also, you can get VLC for Linux, it's just the same as the Windows version really, and it works really well on Linux, no Windows to mess it up :lolflag:

LaRoza

July 7th, 2008, 08:36 PM

Yeah, Windows Media Player is rebbish for DVD, or any video really. And mine always skips a bit in a song, no matter what.

I have the Vista Home Premium and I was having trouble watch a movie (I didn't install the codecs and players I liked yet) and rebooted to and used Windows. I thought the "media centre" would be good, but it was even worse.

ryaxnb

July 8th, 2008, 01:01 AM

We can install and use of the thousands of professional programs made for Windows (or Mac for that matter).

Software for Linux is just inferior. For basic use, it is fine. For semi-professional use or professional use Linux is no good. Without professional software an OS is useless! It is so damn annoying that Linux supporters again and again claims that "most people don't need all the features" in this or that program. How do you know? How do you know that we will never WANT to install something wonderful from the Windows world? If we HAVE to use something or WANT TO, we can't!

I was curious - that is why I gave Linux a chance a couple of years ago. Now I just maintain the installation until I dare remove the partition. If it works, don't fix it. I would hate to damage my Windows install. Never reinstalled it, it works like a dream. And I always boot Windows now because the software for Linux can't do what I need it to do.

I actually installed Linux because I was curious about Scribus and Inkscape, but now they are both available for Windows, and guess why... thats where the USERS are! But still, they are inferior to professional software. If you are poor, its great. If you are professional, you will use professional software.

Your "you can just use GIMP, Inkscape, Scribus and OOo" posts will only make you look ridiculous.
What's worse is that many of these apps run on Linux
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=2389\ Freehand MX...
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=9060
Indesign CS2...
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=10693 Quark 7...
http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iVersionId=3514&iTestingId=1050 Office XP...
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=12037 WordPerfect X3...
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=2631
Photoshop CS2...
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=1424
Illustrator 10...
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=8904
PS Elements...

And for those with bleeding edge software and who are OK hunting for DLLs:
http://www.wine-reviews.net/applications/photoshop-cs3-on-linux-with-wine.html
http://www.wine-reviews.net/microsoft/new-microsoft-office-2007-install-guide.html
Photoshop CS3 And Office 2007! :popcorn: So stop your WINEing. ;)

Zyphrexi

July 8th, 2008, 02:30 AM

get all big-brother on my *bleep*, bog down my system to run the most basic of apps, continually eat memory, have an unoptimized kernel, while diagnosing my network problem, suggest that I connect to the internet for a solution, waste space on my hard drive, waste resources, constantly scan my hard drive, get all in my face about not using ms products, and treat me like i'm an absolute idiot.

good things:

free voice recognition
can run some games linux can't (sims2)

I prefer linux

karellen

July 9th, 2008, 12:32 PM

What's worse is that many of these apps run on Linux
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=2389\ Freehand MX...
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=9060
Indesign CS2...
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=10693 Quark 7...
http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iVersionId=3514&iTestingId=1050 Office XP...
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=12037 WordPerfect X3...
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=2631
Photoshop CS2...
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=1424
Illustrator 10...
http://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=version&iId=8904
PS Elements...

And for those with bleeding edge software and who are OK hunting for DLLs:
http://www.wine-reviews.net/applications/photoshop-cs3-on-linux-with-wine.html
http://www.wine-reviews.net/microsoft/new-microsoft-office-2007-install-guide.html
Photoshop CS3 And Office 2007! :popcorn: So stop your WINEing. ;)

if you really need/want all those programs (and many, myself included, may) why bother with wine instead of dual-booting? I never liked the idea of "surrogate" software

Jordanwb

July 10th, 2008, 05:44 PM

I haven't found a Linux version of Microsoft Streets & Trips that has maps for Canada.

dracule

July 10th, 2008, 06:01 PM

if you really need/want all those programs (and many, myself included, may) why bother with wine instead of dual-booting? I never liked the idea of "surrogate" software

all my CS3 software works in Linux. Why dont I dual boot? because it is just crazy to boot into an entirely different OS to use a program.

If i can double click an icon on my Linux desktop and it runs just as fast, why would i bother booting into windows?

cometa2k7

July 11th, 2008, 04:23 PM

I am actually being serious in this post.

Windows can cause a brand new, fairly high-spec, laptop to crash SEVERAL times, with varying results, within just a few hours of use.

For that reason, I love Linux.

And I had to install about 200 updates, about 50 of which were security updates. Doesn't that just suggest an awful lot of security holes having to be patched?

borlosky

July 11th, 2008, 04:54 PM

Windows can crash like no ones business, and slow down my computer. ](*,)

juan@forum

July 11th, 2008, 07:21 PM

it can **** up in any minute

20aty48

July 11th, 2008, 08:25 PM

instant video messaging is another issue

JUL2000

July 11th, 2008, 08:35 PM

I think one thing that ubuntu is not able to do, but which is often, in older win versions VERY OFTEN, seen, is a blue screen ... :)

borlosky

July 11th, 2008, 09:10 PM

In all seriousness this time, windows is able to use my creative x-fi sound card with drive bay expansion fine, and ubuntu is unable to register the expansion drive. even had a hard time even getting just the card itself to work.:( but thats not linux's fault, I blame creative for not making a (good) linux driver...but it's in beta, so hopefully soon, then i really will have no reason to go back to xp. but still need that card for the extra ports and music production.

::edit:: as a side note, windows is also very good at wasting my time...takes at least 1-3 hours for fresh format/install/update for windows, whereas linux takes under an hour to format, install AND update...but i guess with 5,000 security updates alone (not counting other software and performance updates)after fresh install, what would you expect.

avam323

July 11th, 2008, 11:21 PM

I'm sorry, but I have to disagree on that one. You have to pay for windowblinds, and the built-in schemes are just pitiful. Every distro of Linux I've used had better gui options (GNOME, KDE, Xfce).
However, in the gaming community, I have to agree as well. I play WoW with absolutely no issues; the FPS runs at least 1 1/2 times faster than it EVER did in Window$; and runs in only about 3/4GB of ram (I have 4, and that total includes the rest of the running processes on the system). Other games I've had trouble with (Civ 3 and 4, Command and Conquer, etc.), but WoW is my main game as of now. I run all the add-ons I want w/ a 256M video card.
I think the more weight Linux carries in the computing world as an alternate desktop solution (hopefully a primary solution soon in the future), the more support our community will be offered in these venues. Write the software companies, tell them. At least they could provide game libs that jive with wine.

ryaxnb

July 12th, 2008, 05:39 AM

if you really need/want all those programs (and many, myself included, may) why bother with wine instead of dual-booting? I never liked the idea of "surrogate" software

Well, for the fact that you can still rely on Linux for its superior tools utilities, net stuff, free versions of Apps you don't use WINE for (e.g. use WINE'd Photoshop and Quark, with Inkscape and OpenOffice running native), and not paying for Windows. I can't really afford the "piddly" $99-199 after coughing up $299 for, say edu. Photoshop.

root-x

July 13th, 2008, 12:11 PM

coding and programming ubuntu linux is the orignal version ...

HappyHenry

July 16th, 2008, 03:46 AM

Guaranty a five second response time from the point of turning the system on to browsing the web.
Check out what Asus has finally decided to do.Not only are they going to get Linux out there but the board can be used on Windows loaded computers with Linux as the five second boot OS that they can do all the daily stuff of web browsing. It wont be long before they find OpenOffice suite and why not play a few free games why your shopping. I think this is going to be a real, "shot-in-the-arm" for Linux at the same time Windows is already falling on its face with Vista. LOL I pitty the marketing director tht gets stuck with Windows 7. Linux will already be in the public hands. Even the folks that aren't aware what an OS is and that there is even a choice.
http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=869&num=1
There is no way windows could ever be shaped to fit this guaranty! Only Linux can pull this off! This may be the perfect answer for people that would and even wouldn't think to ask, the threads question. Once a bunch of systems are in the public hands with a side by side comparison on the exact same system Linux will be seen as the best OS.Then everyone can stop climbing through windows to play a game.

zieglerj

August 8th, 2008, 01:37 AM

I agree with Praill. Winmodems is the biggest issue I've run into with Linux. I mean yeah, better games would be nice but it requires money to make big name games.
How crappy Ubuntu handles winmodems is absurd! It's possable to get conected via the instructions at linmodems but even if you do, you're stuck at 2-4 Kbs with a 56k modem!
I even purchased one of the full speed modem drivers from linuxant and it's still only 2-4 Kbs. That's the same speed I got with the free version and they (linuxant tech support) say that's normal. Now I'm trying to get my money back.
Ubuntu is free for all humanity but the ones that need it most (poor) aren't able to use it because it pretty much requires internet access and if you can't afford broadband your just out of luck. Honestly- no one can come up with a decent modem driver?

darthchaosofrspw

August 8th, 2008, 03:54 AM

ad_267

August 8th, 2008, 07:45 AM

Newuser1111

August 8th, 2008, 10:32 AM

Linux(Ubuntu) cannot show YouTube videos in fullscreen.

CheShA

August 8th, 2008, 10:37 AM

Linux(Ubuntu) cannot show YouTube videos in fullscreen.

Eh?

Newuser1111

August 8th, 2008, 10:51 AM

Eh?http://playstationportablestuff.googlepages.com/YouTube2934890238092384.bmp
It only works for less than a second.

Is this problem only with my computer?

ad_267

August 8th, 2008, 10:59 AM

It only works for less than a second.

Is this problem only with my computer?

Does it for me too. If it's really a problem you can turn compiz off and it will work.

kajillin

August 8th, 2008, 11:09 AM

It only works for less than a second.

Is this problem only with my computer?

yaa compiz and 2d rendering right now doesnt work so good, switch to metacity and low and behold full screen youtube videos

windows can run crysis, bioshock, sose, gears, all cs3 products. linux cannot :( depressing realy only reason i keep windows around.

MaindotC

August 8th, 2008, 12:42 PM

I've never had a problem playing youtube fullscreen. I think anything at all that requires heavy graphics or full-screen capability should be run with Desktop Effects disabled.

billgoldberg

August 8th, 2008, 01:03 PM

Linux and full screen flash player doesn't work?

Strange, I thought I just watched the new Richard Dawkins show "The genius of Charles Darwin" on youtube, full screen for around an hour.

Must have been my imagination.

ps: compiz effects are always enabled on my laptop

billgoldberg

August 8th, 2008, 01:05 PM

Linux and full screen flash player doesn't work?

Strange, I thought I just watched the new Richard Dawkins show "The genius of Charles Darwin (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tqm285F8Fks)" on youtube, full screen for around an hour.

Must have been my imagination.

--

On topic:

What can Windows do that linux cant?

Hmmmm.

Use veoh tv.

kaligus

August 8th, 2008, 01:13 PM

I just been wondering what other users have found that windows is able to do that linux (more specifically ubuntu) cant do...

so far the only thing i have found that i cant do anymore is gaming and a few online videos dont work sometimes

also, add anything to the list that makes one better or worse than the other, such as linux being practically virus free

Some of these are taken care of using virtualbox, others are unique to windows.

1) Talk to my CPAP (medical device == manufacturer issues as previously discussed)

2) Easily create a video file anyone with an out of the box Windows 95 or newer system can view without installing anything (probably my issues, but I got tired of trying to get mencoder to do the job)

3) Have (1) one single application which can get URLs from the in-focus browser, tab, etc. no matter its breed, flavor, version, name, or proclivities. Put those bookmarked URLs into one file which can be moved on jump-drive to another machine, and used there. Sent via email to someone else using the same software, who adds their own, edits, and sends the file back to be incorporated into a master list.

4) Make me curse the first four comdex shows where I hung out with another Bill (I am Will/William/Bill).

5) Make me curse WGA (Windows Genuine Advantage)

6) Use all 3 of my sound cards AT THE SAME TIME without learning 3 new languages, including curse words and spending hours at a command prompt working on the solution. (I do prefer using audacity to slice and dice on Ubuntu however) which I have not yet found.
** edit because I fell stupid here

7) Actually let me change my mouse buttons easily (I dont mind editing files etc. from the command line "left=[double-click] right=[left]" etc. but figuring out what event driver needs to be persuaded to do what, and hoping that some piece of software doesn't override the defaults (firefox in my experience uses the buttons it wants to use no matter what I set up)), then figuring out which number needs to be exchanged with which other number to get started, oh and let me define those mouse clicks as a string of keys, or mouse clicks.
**edit because I fell stupid here

8) Autoscroll ANYWHERE, ANYTIME, with one button press.

**** what linux does better than Windows for me.

1) Run Forte Agent, as long as some visual issues are ok... much faster, much more responsive.

2) Run virtualbox. Windows with Ubuntu vbox was a right pain, the other way is quite nice once I figured out how to do networking.

3) Run the gimp with the plugins I want to run (mostly some python stuff). Same goes for Blender, Wings, and others. I do miss beaing able to exchange (CAD) drawings with my father-in-law but virtualbox again saves the day.

4) manage my mp3 collection my way. I only miss one feature of ID3Tagit over easytag, but easytag has like 5 that I have decided I can't live without.

5) let me define how I want to use my gamepad (joy2key) though not my cyborg command unit (the shift/mode function seems to break Ubuntu).

6) Work. MY web development is much easier and faster on Ubuntu. Not much difference in freepascal. Mysql is much nicer on Ubuntu, etc.

7) Take notes. I used to use keynote because it thinks mostly like I do, I have fallen in-love with treeline.

8) Simple audio editing, mixing, slicing, dicing, and otherwise mauled. I do miss some plugins and effects, but I have a virtualbox when those are needed and audacity runs much nicer on Ubuntu. (**edit: except that I can only use the sound card Ubuntu chooses)

9) Think like I think. Windows always had to be customized using expensive, often caveat ladened things like window-blinds.

... all done for now :) Now I go back to reading this thread and trying to ignore the off topic arguments about gamers versus mums playing mahjong (page 20 and counting)

shadow09

August 12th, 2008, 10:55 AM

I think gaming is the most important for a lot of people. Also a lot of professionals miss Photoshop.
you do know that if you install wine you can use photoshop... :o

RWells

August 12th, 2008, 01:46 PM

And what does your opinion matter in this situation? We're talking about numbers. And I didn't pull those numbers out of nowhere. They're from real studies.

The key phrase here is the people I know that do play games. Most people don't play the kinds of games you're talking about.

I'm sorry but what's the point of that link? You're listing the top selling PC games. So what? How does that compare to the number of console games? How does that compare to the number of people playing Solitaire or Tetris?

I'm comparing PC gaming to console gaming and silly built-in games. You're comparing PC games to other PC games. What does that prove?

I am starting to think mabey there is a flaw/flaws in the studies you are quoting.

Most people I know play some type of online game,every one I have
told about Ubuntu has asked about the ability to play games and mentioned a fps/simulator game in particular.

My Wife is one of the card game/puzzle type people and she uses Ubuntu for all of her email, internet word procesor stuff and then boots into windows or gets on my gameing machine to play solitaire.

All Of the people I know that play online games /fps/simulators
dont participate in polls or studies.

Wait... I dont think I have ever met a person that has participated in a poll or study of any kind.

I have 5 important programs on my computer.

1 Thunderbird
2 Firefox
3 BobCad (windows only)
4 Realflight G3.5 (Windows only)
5 Nascar 2003 (windows only I think)

Ok I just did a quick poll in my household.:)

50% played card games and 50% played online simulators.

sujoy

August 12th, 2008, 03:52 PM

ummm, windows can run microsoft encarta encyclopedia 2008

tsikis

August 12th, 2008, 06:25 PM

Well i am using Linux before Ubuntu came out, i changed to Ubuntu and am proud of my choice every day since , but changing to Linux(currenlty have dual boot with winxp and i vmware my winxp when i need running win) had me everyday thinking of the 2 things i miss mostly of windows which are 1) Gaming, Yes you can play most games,yes not all people play this kind of games that Linux dont-doesnt (not sure which is correct) Support,yes yes yes but there is the other side too guys which is people that like to play this games (most of them are school boys or student at universities) but there are those people too, and 2) and the most important because is the reason that i cant make my friends changing to Ubuntu too is the messenger every friend i have and their friends and so on use msn Messenger (most of them have other email and use msn one only for messaging).
So this are the 2 i have in my mind , of course there are more and of course there are things that windows will never be able to use that Linux do easily.
And for the people always talking about the games not so important or small number of people playing that kind of games, Guys please stop this is not Linux thinking and more not Ubuntu thinking Games is a fun part of Computers and should be available (Linux are not responsible to give credits but the companies making the Game are but still ...)
Now it is going to sound a bit offending but this aint my goal i want to talk to "aysiu" my fellow Linux user i dont think that this way of thinking suits to a guy with 29 thousand posts (meaning the use of numbers and text and this kind of proof ) i believe when Linus Torvalds started he was not thinking of text and number (i can never be sure) people even if we are talking about like 1 million only (which are far more that 1m) have the right to choose Linux and being able to use Linux while playing their 100$ Game which needs a 500$ Graphics card to be played I am not trying to offend you but i just dont thing this is the way of Linux or else if we were talking about numbers Linux shouldnt exist.

Anyway as everything in life is choice here too you choose

Mr. Picklesworth

August 12th, 2008, 06:52 PM

Produce not just catastrophic (package management) failures, but OLYMPIC failures (http://gizmodo.com/5035456/blue-screen-of-death-strikes-birds-nest-during-opening-ceremonies-torch-lighting)!
It's a pretty impressive act. Takes major presence and big market share to achieve such a thing.

hairshirt

August 13th, 2008, 12:38 AM

Bsod

lumix700i

August 13th, 2008, 04:59 AM

e-SPT. This is a software for paying bussines an commercial taxes, created and published by the goverment in my country.. But that is no problem at all, because in here commercial software (windows etc) were rented.. In a VERY CHEAP price..

erl3nd

August 14th, 2008, 12:13 PM

Ya, with the mplayer-mozilla plugin and flash-mozilla plugin you should be able to stream all videos on any page.

Can sombody please tell me how to download a codec wich makes it possible for me to watch these videos? http://www1.nrk.no/nett-tv/ol/spill/verdi/68119

Please answer quickly before the link gets broken.

Methuselah

August 14th, 2008, 04:39 PM

Shut down due to activation failure.

Musipilot

August 14th, 2008, 09:10 PM

Greetings all, first post, although I've been reading you guys for months.

I'm an IT professional, and I love watching the heated debate on this issue. What some of you have to remember is that by the very fact that you are on this forum you are probably a more advanced computer user than the 'average' person. If you don't believe me, ask anyone sitting in an office at a Windows computer if they have ever run Linux, and you'll get a lot of "Huh?" "What?" But that doesn't make them lesser computer users or not knowledgeable. When they sat down in that cubicle, the computer had Windows on it, and that's what they learn and use. The fact that they have the same operating system at home is a HUGE bonus.

Windows may or may not be better than Linux. It doesn't matter because what drives the primary operating system choice in the world is money. 40 somethings with money are not going to use Linux for their home applications, the first time they see a command line prompt they're going to scream. Windows is incredible in that it has immense compatability. It can run accounting software for a car dealer in Boise, and it can record movies in the field for a sherpa in the mountains. That's the huge key. It's also why those of us that know a bit about computers dislike it's quirks so much. The price of such universal usablity is compromise. It doesn't do anything GREAT, but it can do everything. When you learn to program, tweak, dig into the CPU a little bit Window's shortcomings stand out to you -- but keep in mind that in their lifetime MOST computer users will never get that far.

By the way, for the record, I'm 43, and my favorite game is C&C Generals, which my son is trying to get to run under UbuntU, no luck so far. Remember, there are gamers of all types out there as well.

Love all of your posts, keep em coming.

Sleeve98

August 15th, 2008, 01:43 PM

Apparently, Windows can detect my hard drives and Ubuntu cannot.

Sleeve98

August 15th, 2008, 04:43 PM

Apparently, Windows can detect my hard drives and Ubuntu cannot.

Fixed it.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=885186

stwert

August 15th, 2008, 05:14 PM

-freeze repeatedly, crash repeatedly, implode, explode, and generally slow things down to an interminable crawl
-catch viruses like a bacterium in a phage plate
-destroy your wallet
-exist in an easy-to-make-fun-of form

emshains

August 17th, 2008, 11:46 AM

Be compatible with any ATI video card, run DirectX apps flawlessly, run Need For Speed flawlessly, manage iPhones, lock up with no particular reason, suck youre wallet dry clean, monopolize PC-OS marketing.

starcannon

August 17th, 2008, 03:00 PM

Netflix streaming video, stupid DRM!!! ARGHHH!!! Requires Windows Media Player and acceptance of DRM certificate with such. grrrr....

VitaLiNux

August 17th, 2008, 04:58 PM

SarahKH

August 18th, 2008, 03:12 AM

Make you think that your PC is crap and you need another new one because the one you own now have become as slow as hell and you just think that is a normal process with PCs. So you got to change your PC every three to five years or so.

I actually find Linux does something similar. Nothing feels spanky fast as a new user account on a machine. Of course that's a bit different from a binary blob (registry) grinding under its own weight whilst the machine corrupts DLL's for no reason.

But I know something Windows can do that Linux can't.

Make you spend £300 on a flawed product and think you're brilliant for having spent the cash.

mellowd

August 18th, 2008, 03:14 AM

Not sure if this has been mentioned, but EAC doesn't run on Linux without going through wine first.

What I'd really love is a command line EAC for my server. Heaven

cardinals_fan

August 18th, 2008, 03:21 AM

I actually find Linux does something similar. Nothing feels spanky fast as a new user account on a machine.

Depends on the distro/window manager. On Ubuntu (and most other distros I've tried), this felt true. On SliTaz and Slackware, every login is like a new login :)

Yuki_Nagato

August 18th, 2008, 03:28 AM

I searched the thread and could not find it.

Photosynth (http://labs.live.com/photosynth/) unfortunately. This software is SICK.

lavinog

August 18th, 2008, 05:26 AM

Netflix streaming video, stupid DRM!!! ARGHHH!!! Requires Windows Media Player and acceptance of DRM certificate with such. grrrr....

not true. there is a netflix box that uses linux as its os. http://www.linux.com/feature/142729

godless_too

August 18th, 2008, 09:46 AM

Unfortunately, Windows can run the most up-to-date versions of AutoCAD, AutoDesk Inventor, Solid Works, Solid Edge, Catia, etc. Linux can run ??? Sigh. When will engineers be able to remove their shackles?

tom66

August 18th, 2008, 11:22 AM

Windows plays Phun 4.22, but Linux only works up to 3.5.
Windows plays DRM protected content, and lets you play iPlayer stuff you have downloaded.

todak

August 18th, 2008, 12:21 PM

Make me use Linux.

lavinog

August 18th, 2008, 03:28 PM

View DWF files

lavinog

August 20th, 2008, 07:12 PM

Automatic updates the way they should be done.
The automatic updater should either:

Automatically restart your computer when you are away from it with no regard to applications that are running with unsaved documents. It should do this for any update no matter how minor.
If user is available: be sure to nag them with a window that steals focus every 10 mins until they accept their fate and install the update.
Force you to install updates when you want to shutdown your computer. During the update process it should not give any indication of what updates are being installed nor show any progress of the update process. It should install majority of the updates quickly, but spend about 30 mins installing the last update. The user should not have an option to cancel the update process...even if they are running on a battery.

Also update descriptions should be as vague as possible (although ubuntu seems to have adapted this with the occasional "changes not available.") To be safe: All update descriptions should just say: "A security issue has been identified that could allow an unauthenticated remote attacker to compromise your Microsoft Windows-based system and gain control over it." This will allow for obscured implementations of DRM and WPA. WPA should be updated frequently enough to turn legitimate licenses to illegal keys.

I hope to see these "features" implemented in intrepid.

spupy

August 21st, 2008, 01:32 PM

TL;DR

Also, stop with the "WINDOWS CAN MAKE BSOD!!11 LOLZORDS!!!112" or "Make my PC suk! ROFLMAO", we all know these "jokes" and they aren't funny anymore. Oh, wait, is this another Windows bashing thread? :O

On topic:
- Windows can run programs without the need to update libfoo-2.3.15-r2 to libfoo-2.3.15-r3. Of course, the Linux way has its advantages, but I sometimes wish there wasn't this huge amount of libs that so easily break. >_>

CoryMathews

August 21st, 2008, 01:55 PM

Photoshop? Nah theres gimp.

wow.. gimp ain't nothing on photoshop, It has come a long ways and hopefully will eventually be better but it still has a very long ways to go.

Vista's sleep mode is still far better then anthing ubuntu has. (or at least I have found)

Vista can change the sound for individual programs as well as a master level, I haven't found that in ubuntu yet either.

Gaming is a big reason to keep windows, or at least dual boot.

Lastley is the support of external devices however even since the last version of ubuntu this has been less and less of a problem and I see ubuntu's support being just as good as windows.

btw im still pretty new to linux so if these features are available please prove me wrong I will be happy you did...

karellen

August 22nd, 2008, 06:58 AM

professional specialized software
http://www.thestandard.com/news/2008/08/07/ibm-exec-linux-apps-im-tired-waiting

rpineger

August 24th, 2008, 02:01 PM

OK. So on that basis we should formulate a 10 year plan (with Canonical Ltd) to bring the missing 'expert' apps to Linux. Linux already provides the server tools for these guys e.g. Digital Asset Management / Document Management but not the professional desktop tools.

Profession
----------
Doctor
Dentist
Architect
Technical Writer
Electronic Engineer
- circuit design and simulation with all the latest component libraries
- electronic layout with latest component libraries
- 3D CAD
Mechanical Engineer
Structural Engineer
Solicitor
Architect

A list of professions is available from most job search engines. Has anyone tried to make a list like this before?

Richard

borimrr

August 24th, 2008, 11:15 PM

As a web designer, Flash. I believe it hasn't been successfully installed on a linux platform.

TrioTorus

August 24th, 2008, 11:46 PM

Video editing
And drivers for professional video input/output cards that have SDI.
Or even a media framework in general. Gstreamer seems a good start, but it is not more than a start.

fballem

August 25th, 2008, 01:33 AM

Visio - I haven't found a general purpose drawing program that will allow me to UML diagrams and furniture design as well as visio.

The other that I miss is Enterprise Architect (from Sparx Systems). It apparently can run using some form of windows emulator, but I haven't found a reasonably priced linux-native program that does even 1/2 of what this program does. In particular, I like the traceability and the visual orientation of the program.

Other than these, I don't miss Windows at all!

rpineger

August 25th, 2008, 10:02 AM

Have you tried OpenOffice.org Draw? It does many of the things Visio does but perhaps doesn't immediately have the same libraries of ready-made symbols. It does have a gallery though that you could add to. Mine is currently full of the OpenClipart.org libraries - I'm not sure whether I downloaded these in Synaptic or they are there by default. There may be open UML SVG libraries available somewhere - perhaps you could grab them from one of the UML editors available in Ubuntu.

A good resource to help investigate OpenOffice.org Draw is the free book "Draw Guide" produced by the OpenOffice.org Authors here: http://oooauthors.org

Richard

rpineger

August 25th, 2008, 10:23 AM

As a technical writer I can't use Author-it on Linux. It is written in .NET and relies on MS Word and Adobe Acrobat (although there is another alternative PDF processor). It is a superb tool for Tech Writing and the up-and-coming alternative DITA XML will never catch up.

I use Ubuntu on my desktop and run a MS Windows Terminal Server to access Author-it. I could also use Author-it LIVE because it runs in a web interface using AJAX for drag-and-drop support etc.

Richard

tuxulin

August 25th, 2008, 04:15 PM

What can Windows do that Linux can't?

the most incredible piece of code that linux cant touch is
the mighty windows registry. :lolflag:

Tuxulin

cometa2k7

August 29th, 2008, 08:31 PM

I love Linux, but Windows Vista definitely seems to manage my battery power much better than Ubuntu.

It might just be that time flys when I'm using Ubuntu, or it might be Linux reporting my battery life wrongly. Or it could be Windows, but the times check out.

One stupid thing on Windows though is that it is currently telling me that my "current plan may reduce battery life", I don't know why, because if anything, it should reduce performance, as I have lowered the power to my processor.

So for me, it's Vista on my laptop (for school work), and Ubuntu on my desktop (for everything else).

Windows also has the ability to use a very cool program from the Office suite, OneNote. It's great for my schoolwork, and making quick notes about my work, then sorting them out later. There is probably a program on Linux that would be similar, but I like OneNote, it has some good features. I did try using Wine for it, but it failed a lot.

gjoellee

August 29th, 2008, 08:38 PM

I don't actually know nothing about C++ and gtk+, but most programs in windows are made in C++ right? And in Ubuntu (maybe other Linux distro's) you can convert C++ go gtk+ with a simple command, and have the same program in Linux can't you?

Am I on the track of something?

edward4130

August 30th, 2008, 02:54 PM

Not that i particularly care, but very robust professionaly developed software like photoshop will not be developed for Linux quickly. It has to do with simple econimics, many of the best developers, would like to get paid for their efforts and work for Adobe, Microsoft and Apple.The aglile companies will risk for a smaller marketshare because it will be easier to dominate.

It is much the same as Mac vs Windows. Can a mac do it... yes ... but threre are 10 times as many software chilces on windows. you can do about anything on linux, but sometimes the software will not be as slick. I look as it as you dont pay money for the software you pay for it in time to learn and time to help others.

Miscrosoft is contributing on no Open-source projects
Apple is contributing on about 20.

-Edward

suri.mahendra

September 6th, 2008, 07:32 PM

Consistently crash gather viruses and always needs a software patch.

linuxguymarshall

September 6th, 2008, 07:56 PM

Crash and cost an absurd amount.

user11

September 6th, 2008, 11:08 PM

Serial mice recognition, is that too much to ask for? Didn't the original Linux OSs use serial mice in the first place?](*,)

radical3

September 6th, 2008, 11:44 PM

1web development
Web Development (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=898353) isnt possible on ubuntu, well at least not without building sites that work on only 20% of browsers.

2fixing issues
windows can fix a lot of problems without a command line, such as driver issues, corrupted hardisks, virus intrusion(if people bothered to write viruses for linux im pretty sure you would need to fix them with the command line)

3managing a web development environment
Web development on windows with wamp is far easier to manage than on linux with lamp, for one thing theres no need to type:
"sudo /etc/init.d/apache2" restart to have apache restart, just click the restart apache icon, all of the .conf and .ini files can be accessed from the start menu, the default apache.conf always works.

4hardware
when you buy hardware for windows, its works on windows, when you buy hardware thats linux friendly it doesn't always work (check this very forum). especially after an update, look around this forum and look at how many people downgraded back to 7.10 due to hardware issues.

5web interactive software
when a big website offers a download of a program to interface with their site better it will always work on windows / or work on windows better: skype is useless on linux or so ive heard, veoh tv is not for linux, and a whole bunch of firefox addons are not for linux, most mmorpgs, even some sites disallow linux just type "citibank linux" into google and see what i'm talking about etc etc.

6Focus
A lot of linux distributions do not seem to be focused too much on the desktop, only a few of them are, granted every once in a while you get your average windows clone (http://www.reactos.org/en/screenshots.html) but overall linux distro developers dont really seem to be aimed at the desktop, if every or at least most distros were focused on the desktop and theres nearly 350 of them (http://distrowatch.com/search.php?category=All&origin=All&basedon=All&desktop=All&architecture=All&status=Active) linux would be making leaps and bounds towards the desktop.

windows is focused on the desktop as well as server, embedded and mobile computing.

7Messed up system
the only way you can screw up a windows installation is by installing any random dodgy 3rd party .exe file you find in the back alleys of the internet, go rooting around in the windows folder when you know you don't know what you are doing/ or with bad 3rd party advice, installing dodgy second hand 3rd party ebay hardware, other than that, fresh installing windows and installing a bunch of popular well known apps is pretty much perfectly safe.

In ubuntu you can break your system by installing Official updates.

8Gaming
............................

9user interaction
(1)windows is amazing here, everything is pretty well laid out, all the programs are stored in a folder called "programs" your stuff are in documents and settings, and the system stuff are in windows, (2)the add/remove in windows is amazing for noobs. (3)windows movie maker is so easy even the morons that populate youtube can work (4)with it, ctrl-alt-del > end task , is usually the only major command windows users ever need to learn (its true trust me),(5) Blue screens are a {insert bad word} but AT LEAST they tell you what broke, often computer noobs simply recite the error message to a tech guy over the phone, and are guided through the fixing procedure , via gui (safe mode) etc, etc etc,

(1)In ubuntu from fresh install you start off with with about 15 folders in your "my computer/root" relativeley confusing from get go. (2)Add/remove programs in ubuntu is magnificent, however going up stream for a program is not something a computer noob cant do,(3) avidemux/kino is no where near as easy/stripped down as movie maker , (4)ctl-alt-del doesent exist on ubuntu , however in xubuntu/kubuntu ctrl-alt-esc and clicking on an offending program does the job, clicking on the desktop kills the session, not quite noob safe, kill a process in windows and it warns you, but you can easily kill the desktop in k/xubuntu without warning. Either way this functionality is not available in ubuntu.
(5)As for not telling the user what is wrong:

i once needed to change gstreamers properties because no image showed up when i watched a movie in totem on xubuntu, in vlc i could go to preferences and chage the video settings to my needs, vlc worked, totem didnt. i found out that i was supposed to to type: alt-f2 > gstreamer-properties , then i could easily change the video settings, however when i did this it didnt work.

There was no message telling me what was wrong, so i went into the add/remove and installed everything that said grstreamer/ffmpeg/mencoder anything to do with video. I tried it again and it didnt work, i rebooted and it didnt work. I came back to UF (ubuntuforums) and it seemed it was working for ubuntu users, i decided to try it in the actual terminal instead of the GUI alt-f2 "run" type application, low and behold the command line told me that gstreamer properties werent installed and i could install it by typing sud....., this is despite the fact that i had installed everything that said gstreamer from the add/remove program, frankly the synaptic isnt really fun for installing programs for me, and i had been told many times that the add/remove was the king for newbies.

it constantly feels as if anything of any power has no GUI interface on *buntu

10The command line
i constantly read posts where newbie linux users come with problems or queries and are guided towards their solution with a command they need to run from the terminal, despite the fact that in many cases there is a GUI alternative or even an actual GUI program.
desent seem too bad, does it?, problem is most users wont want to learn the command line and memorize commands, so what happens is you get a whole bunch of newbies completely dependent on UF for everything,
*show up*
*demand code*
*copy-paste*
*go away only to return tomorrow with another/the same query*
often i see people demanding code to do things even my mother can do in the windows control panel.

More experienced users often say the command line is great, its faster, its safer than rooting around, its easier to give help, etc etc, bull , in suse linux i could give anyone the the solution to pretty much any of the common problems suse has just by saying one word "YaST/2", now why would suse developers, waste time developing that if the command line was better? serously have you seen what YaST can do , im impressed.
Lets be fair im pretty sure the gimp, blender, OpenOffice and quanta all have superb CLI implementations, but but to new users i'd recommend giving the GUI alterntive before the CLI solution to stop things like this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7594249.stm) happening.

11Automation and scheduling tasks
Scheduled tasks are pretty easy to do, any moron can handle it with ease, however writing bat files is not easy at all, this is why programs written for windows which at some point would require automated or batch functionality have it built in,
case in point macros
On ubuntu you strip a sequence of jpegs from a short clip in avidemux and want to apply the same effects to all of the images through the gimp, you need to learn to program, literally. However on windows strip a sequence of jpegs from a short clip in avidemux/virtualdub and want to apply the same effects to all of the images through the photoshop, just push record. macros is available in all necessary applications that run on windows

cron is a nightmare compared to scheduled tasks for the average user.

batch processing a video collection to shrink the overall sizes whilst still keeping good quality can be done in virtualdub, by just selecting "processing directory > output directory" takes 5 seconds to add 100 videos to the list, it would take you 10/20 seconds X 100 videos to do the same thing in avidemux.

if a user wanted to make firefox open up when they booted into windows, just drag the icon into startup, i never attempted this on xubuntu for fear of the having to edit system files from the terminal.

12NON- free
if you buy a computer with windows pre-loaded or you go out and buy windows, you are allowed to use everything on it.

This is a grey area for linux, linux apparently breaks a whole bunch of patents just by booting up, ive heard there are numerous non-free patented, trade marked things in linux including firefox, which is why debian wants to rename them and change the patented artwork,gnu want to make a REALLY free kernel, etc, and thats just the stuff ive heard about. And of course there are the restricted extras, which apparently you can go to jail for if you install it, whilst residing in the wrong countries. Legally you are not allowed to play most dvd's in linux, i wonder what blu-ray is gonna feel like. If silverlight takes off internet video will be useless in linux, flash(partly supported) is hard enough silverlight's rise (if it happens) will cause linux user to switch back windows faster than you can say " entertainment is more popular than freedom"

13enterprise
so far the only way linux has made it into the enterprise is by providing relief to the already expensive world of hosting websites. Banks, credit card companies and apparently quite a lot of cash machines , bio-chemistry/life sciences , public transit, etc seems to bend towards solaris.

windows is heavily used in those fields as well, as well as being the number 1 office desktop computer operating system, but this is only down to one thing......

14....consistency
I can install programs than work on win95/98/2000/NT/ME/XP and even vista at times. More that a decades woth of operating systems and you can still get programs that run on all of them , opera (http://www.opera.com/support/search/view/386/) is a good example.
however in linux i cant install the same stuff on the same operating system. Case in point the *buntu family of OS's all have different text editors (so even giving *beautiful* commands to a newbie to run can be tricky) they all default to different program sets, they all use different libraries etc etc, lets not even talk about taking a program compiled to run on another distro and telling a noob to run it on {insert distro here}.

imagine adobe got up and said "lets make a linux version of our programs" how many hundreds of times would they need to recompile the program to make it run on every CURRENT linux distibution, only to find that the next week, someone from {insert ditro here} contacts them to say they have change libhere to libthere so could they please recompile their family of apps to run on that distribution and all of its desktop environment implementations.

15 Latest stuff
if something new comes out, whether if its or web-based, desktop-based, or if its some sort of hardware(psp?). It will always work on windows and whenever that new something comes out there will always be thousands of people all over the internet telling you how to make it work for you too.

linux cannot say the same, new hardware is not supported by linux, new web interactive stuff is not supported by linux, even google who are pro linux still haven't managed to port all of their apps to run 100% in linux (see reason 14).

16 Ported applications
mac ports a lot of its stuff to windows, anything a lot of people use that apple has made will have a windows version.windows also ports a lot of things back to mac as well. anything of any use on linux also has a windows version (http://windows.kde.org/)microsoft are yet to port any version of any of their software to linux.
Open office ---yes
avidemux --- yes
quanta---yes
kompozer---yes
abiword---yes
gnucash--yes
thunderbird--yes
amsn--yes
pidgin--yes
apache,mysql,php--yes
aptana--yes
gimp--yes
Archimedes-yes
Blender ---yes
inkscape--yes
audacity--yes
mplayer--yes
the list goes on and on, how will linux ever get ahead if everything you can do on it, you can do on windows with the same software.

there are other stuff but i would like to stop there for now.
DISCLAIMER:
i do not hate linux, im not pro-microsoft and anti linux im JUST a computer user i dont belong to either religion, i felt to properly answer this thread due to the fact that people here are side stepping these issues that need to be spoken about. If i stated any incorrect facts please point them out, but do not ignore me or shoot me down as a Microsoft worshipper:mad:.

Barrucadu

September 7th, 2008, 11:09 AM

1web development
Web Development (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=898353) isnt possible on ubuntu, well at least not without building sites that work on only 20% of browsers.

Errr... what? using Linux doesn't automagically cripple your websites; as long as you use perfectly valid XHTML and CSS, your site will almost always work. It's always worth checking in IE on a Windows machine, but that's not the same as "building sites that work on only 20% of browsers".

radical3

September 7th, 2008, 11:41 AM

Errr... what? (1)using Linux doesn't automagically cripple your websites; as long as you use perfectly valid XHTML and CSS, your site will almost always work.(2) It's always worth checking in IE on a Windows machine, (3)but that's not the same as "building sites that work on only 20% of browsers".

(1)how does windows cripple your websites?? i understand IE crippling websites but how does windows cripple them ??? neither "windows" or "linux" are web browsers, or ultra/text editors.

(2)build a site in windows with quanta/dreamweaver and firefox and you can use the IEtab addon to switch between firefox and IE inside of firefox, thus checking your site in well over 70% of all browsers ON THE FLY, However build a site on linux and you will need to boot out of linux and into windows to check your site in browsers most people use, basically you cant start in linux and finish in linux, but you can start in xp and finish in xp.

(3)More people use IE6/7 than people use any linux browser + firefox/opera/safari + any linux distribution + OSX combined, basically if you cant check in IE6/7 you cant build any sites.Im already searching for a solution as we speak (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=898353) but no-one has pointed me towards any linux based developer tools that can make sites IE safe. :(

p.s why didnt you make mention of any of the other 15 points i made??? :(

@ronnielsen1
thanks for side stepping all my points, the power of freedom eh

ronnielsen1

September 7th, 2008, 11:57 AM

Serial mice recognition, is that too much to ask for? Didn't the original Linux OSs use serial mice in the first place?](*,)
Just, out of curiosity, why even use a serial mouse. An optical mouse is cheap and will last a lot longer than a serial mouse

ronnielsen1

September 7th, 2008, 12:00 PM

Pretty close Edward, Warrensburg, MO here but I've lived and worked in KC before.

Canis familiaris

September 7th, 2008, 12:03 PM

@radical3:
If I counterargue your points, would I be assured not to be called a Linux Fanboy or a retard?
I ask for permission.

ronnielsen1

September 7th, 2008, 12:09 PM

@ronnielsen1
thanks for side stepping all my points, the power of freedom eh

Because I questioned the serial mouse or what?

radical3

September 7th, 2008, 12:19 PM

Because I questioned the serial mouse or what?
theres a post that takes up so much of the page its probably visible from space
(http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=5740590&postcount=445)
please, a response , a debunking, something.

Canis familiaris

September 7th, 2008, 12:23 PM

theres a post that takes up so much of the page its probably visible from space
(http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=5740590&postcount=445)
please, a response , a debunking, something.

Since you want a response. I'll give it you.

Just a few minutes. :)

spupy

September 7th, 2008, 12:34 PM

<SNIP>
i do not hate linux, im not pro-microsoft and anti linux im JUST a computer user i dont belong to either religion, i felt to properly answer this thread due to the fact that people here are side stepping these issues that need to be spoken about. If i stated any incorrect facts please point them out, but do not ignore me or shoot me down as a Microsoft worshipper:mad:.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Oh snap. I was going to go on and counter every point in your textwall. You have no idea how hard it is to resist. But I realized that if I did type my response, I would become just the next linux fanboy who foams at the mouth at every linux-bashing post.

shqip

September 7th, 2008, 12:36 PM

spupy

September 7th, 2008, 12:40 PM

Windows can have users that don't spam the web with "news" about their OS.
Yes, I'm looking at you, Linux and Mac OS X users! :evil:

* New Compiz Plugin - rotating dodecahedron! *
* OMG, OS X update version 10.5.123.23254 is out!!!111 *
* TOP iPHONE APPS THIS WEEK iPHONE STILL RULEZ *
* Intrepid Ibex beta 3.1427 Screenshot tour part XXIV *

Canis familiaris

September 7th, 2008, 12:58 PM

1web development
Web Development (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=898353) isnt possible on ubuntu, well at least not without building sites that work on only 20% of browsers.

You mean developing or testing the websites?
Well Remember Since Microsoft does not create a native version of Internet Explorer for Linux, I guess you cannot test it without using a virtualised environment of XP.

2fixing issues
windows can fix a lot of problems without a command line, such as driver issues, corrupted hardisks, virus intrusion(if people bothered to write viruses for linux im pretty sure you would need to fix them with the command line)
Well I admit lack of GUIs is a problem. Though using command line is not as bad as you make it sound.

3managing a web development environment
Web development on windows with wamp is far easier to manage than on linux with lamp, for one thing theres no need to type:
"sudo /etc/init.d/apache2" restart to have apache restart, just click the restart apache icon, all of the .conf and .ini files can be accessed from the start menu, the default apache.conf always works.
Create a symbolic link to the files and folders as well as creating a script may suffice but apparently you wont prefer it that way.

4hardware
when you buy hardware for windows, its works on windows, when you buy hardware thats linux friendly it doesn't always work (check this very forum). especially after an update, look around this forum and look at how many people downgraded back to 7.10 due to hardware issues.
No. Linux Friendly Hardware work extremely well in Linux. Unless you are screwing up the definition of Linux-Friendly hardware. Use an HP printer for instance and you'll know. Anyway you should realise thr lacklustre attitude of Hardware manufacturers has more to take blame than the *nix platform itself.

5web interactive software
when a big website offers a download of a program to interface with their site better it will always work on windows / or work on windows better: skype is useless on linux or so ive heard, veoh tv is not for linux, and a whole bunch of firefox addons are not for linux, most mmorpgs, even some sites disallow linux just type "citibank linux" into google and see what i'm talking about etc etc.
Again lack of Third-Party Support in Linux is bad. Oh well in a way you are right...

6Focus
A lot of linux distributions do not seem to be focused too much on the desktop, only a few of them are, granted every once in a while you get your average windows clone (http://www.reactos.org/en/screenshots.html) but overall linux distro developers dont really seem to be aimed at the desktop, if every or at least most distros were focused on the desktop and theres nearly 350 of them (http://distrowatch.com/search.php?category=All&origin=All&basedon=All&desktop=All&architecture=All&status=Active) linux would be making leaps and bounds towards the desktop.
Well Ubuntu is quite focused with desktop. Yes there is lot of fragmentation of distros and lack of focus but believe me it is much better than few years ago. Remeber NT? It took even the Giants of Microsoft years to create a good solid reliable platform in form of W2K.

windows is focused on the desktop as well as server, embedded and mobile computing.
So is Linux. ;)

7Messed up system
the only way you can screw up a windows installation is by installing any random dodgy 3rd party .exe file you find in the back alleys of the internet, go rooting around in the windows folder when you know you don't know what you are doing/ or with bad 3rd party advice, installing dodgy second hand 3rd party ebay hardware, other than that, fresh installing windows and installing a bunch of popular well known apps is pretty much perfectly safe.

In ubuntu you can break your system by installing Official updates.
Not true exactly. Updates rarely cause problems. Yes people face problems as highlighted in these forums but remember this is a Support Forum.

8Gaming
............................
Again 3rd Party and Microsoft. Developers create games mainly in D3D rather than OpenGL so very few games are made for Linux.
However there are few good OSS games and well as id software's games and also tons of games which can run in WINE.

9user interaction
(1)windows is amazing here, everything is pretty well laid out, all the programs are stored in a folder called "programs" your stuff are in documents and settings, and the system stuff are in windows, (2)the add/remove in windows is amazing for noobs. (3)windows movie maker is so easy even the morons that populate youtube can work (4)with it, ctrl-alt-del > end task , is usually the only major command windows users ever need to learn (its true trust me),(5) Blue screens are a {insert bad word} but AT LEAST they tell you what broke, often computer noobs simply recite the error message to a tech guy over the phone, and are guided through the fixing procedure , via gui (safe mode) etc, etc etc,

Rmember since you are more used to Windows, that is Why Windows way seems better. And IMHO, cut copy and pasting command is not really difficult.

(1)In ubuntu from fresh install you start off with with about 15 folders in your "my computer/root" relativeley confusing from get go. (2)Add/remove programs in ubuntu is magnificent, however going up stream for a program is not something a computer noob cant do,(3) avidemux/kino is no where near as easy/stripped down as movie maker , (4)ctl-alt-del doesent exist on ubuntu , however in xubuntu/kubuntu ctrl-alt-esc and clicking on an offending program does the job, clicking on the desktop kills the session, not quite noob safe, kill a process in windows and it warns you, but you can easily kill the desktop in k/xubuntu without warning. Either way this functionality is not available in ubuntu.
True.

(5)As for not telling the user what is wrong:

i once needed to change gstreamers properties because no image showed up when i watched a movie in totem on xubuntu, in vlc i could go to preferences and chage the video settings to my needs, vlc worked, totem didnt. i found out that i was supposed to to type: alt-f2 > gstreamer-properties , then i could easily change the video settings, however when i did this it didnt work.

There was no message telling me what was wrong, so i went into the add/remove and installed everything that said grstreamer/ffmpeg/mencoder anything to do with video. I tried it again and it didnt work, i rebooted and it didnt work. I came back to UF (ubuntuforums) and it seemed it was working for ubuntu users, i decided to try it in the actual terminal instead of the GUI alt-f2 "run" type application, low and behold the command line told me that gstreamer properties werent installed and i could install it by typing sud....., this is despite the fact that i had installed everything that said gstreamer from the add/remove program, frankly the synaptic isnt really fun for installing programs for me, and i had been told many times that the add/remove was the king for newbies.

it constantly feels as if anything of any power has no GUI interface on *buntu

Didnt really understand.

10The command line
i constantly read posts where newbie linux users come with problems or queries and are guided towards their solution with a command they need to run from the terminal, despite the fact that in many cases there is a GUI alternative or even an actual GUI program.
desent seem too bad, does it?, problem is most users wont want to learn the command line and memorize commands, so what happens is you get a whole bunch of newbies completely dependent on UF for everything,
*show up*
*demand code*
*copy-paste*
*go away only to return tomorrow with another/the same query*
often i see people demanding code to do things even my mother can do in the windows control panel.

More experienced users often say the command line is great, its faster, its safer than rooting around, its easier to give help, etc etc, bull , in suse linux i could give anyone the the solution to pretty much any of the common problems suse has just by saying one word "YaST/2", now why would suse developers, waste time developing that if the command line was better? serously have you seen what YaST can do , im impressed.
Lets be fair im pretty sure the gimp, blender, OpenOffice and quanta all have superb CLI implementations, but but to new users i'd recommend giving the GUI alterntive before the CLI solution to stop things like this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7594249.stm) happening.
Because it is much easier for a poster to post:

sudo apt-get install vlc
than
First go to Applications, then got to....
Very long IMO.

In support forums, command line would always be preferred
However the GUIs exist so that users figure out easily. If a user in the forum demands for a GUI reply, a GUI reply will be given. But most users are satisfied with the cut copy paste commands.

11Automation and scheduling tasks
Scheduled tasks are pretty easy to do, any moron can handle it with ease, however writing bat files is not easy at all, this is why programs written for windows which at some point would require automated or batch functionality have it built in,
case in point macros
On ubuntu you strip a sequence of jpegs from a short clip in avidemux and want to apply the same effects to all of the images through the gimp, you need to learn to program, literally. However on windows strip a sequence of jpegs from a short clip in avidemux/virtualdub and want to apply the same effects to all of the images through the photoshop, just push record. macros is available in all necessary applications that run on windows

cron is a nightmare compared to scheduled tasks for the average user.

batch processing a video collection to shrink the overall sizes whilst still keeping good quality can be done in virtualdub, by just selecting "processing directory > output directory" takes 5 seconds to add 100 videos to the list, it would take you 10/20 seconds X 100 videos to do the same thing in avidemux.

Dont have much experience in this regard.

if a user wanted to make firefox open up when they booted into windows, just drag the icon into startup, i never attempted this on xubuntu for fear of the having to edit system files from the terminal.

Easy enough in Ubuntu at least. Go to System->Preferences->Sessions. Click on Add...
And add the command and done.

12NON- free
if you buy a computer with windows pre-loaded or you go out and buy windows, you are allowed to use everything on it.

This is a grey area for linux, linux apparently breaks a whole bunch of patents just by booting up, ive heard there are numerous non-free patented, trade marked things in linux including firefox, which is why debian wants to rename them and change the patented artwork,gnu want to make a REALLY free kernel, etc, and thats just the stuff ive heard about. And of course there are the restricted extras, which apparently you can go to jail for if you install it, whilst residing in the wrong countries. Legally you are not allowed to play most dvd's in linux, i wonder what blu-ray is gonna feel like. If silverlight takes off internet video will be useless in linux, flash(partly supported) is hard enough silverlight's rise (if it happens) will cause linux user to switch back windows faster than you can say " entertainment is more popular than freedom"
The Patents thingy is MS FUD and such laws is not applicable for all countries.
As for the silverlight platform, Novell is making Moonlight its implementation for Linux.
And anyway most of these technolgies as MS based and MS will make sure they do not work for Linux as far as they can do.
Seriously can you blame lack of rival support on a rival?

[
SIZE="3"]13[/SIZE]enterprise
so far the only way linux has made it into the enterprise is by providing relief to the already expensive world of hosting websites. Banks, credit card companies and apparently quite a lot of cash machines , bio-chemistry/life sciences , public transit, etc seems to bend towards solaris.

windows is heavily used in those fields as well, as well as being the number 1 office desktop computer operating system, but this is only down to one thing......
Who said? Linux/BSD/Solaris are used far mor extensively in Rendering Workstations, Servers and Supercomputers.

14....consistency
I can install programs than work on win95/98/2000/NT/ME/XP and even vista at times. More that a decades woth of operating systems and you can still get programs that run on all of them , opera (http://www.opera.com/support/search/view/386/) is a good example.
however in linux i cant install the same stuff on the same operating system. Case in point the *buntu family of OS's all have different text editors (so even giving *beautiful* commands to a newbie to run can be tricky) they all default to different program sets, they all use different libraries etc etc, lets not even talk about taking a program compiled to run on another distro and telling a noob to run it on {insert distro here}.

imagine adobe got up and said "lets make a linux version of our programs" how many hundreds of times would they need to recompile the program to make it run on every CURRENT linux distibution, only to find that the next week, someone from {insert ditro here} contacts them to say they have change libhere to libthere so could they please recompile their family of apps to run on that distribution and all of its desktop environment implementations.
True to an extent but it is not as bad as you make it sound.

15 Latest stuff
if something new comes out, whether if its or web-based, desktop-based, or if its some sort of hardware(psp?). It will always work on windows and whenever that new something comes out there will always be thousands of people all over the internet telling you how to make it work for you too.

linux cannot say the same, new hardware is not supported by linux, new web interactive stuff is not supported by linux, even google who are pro linux still haven't managed to port all of their apps to run 100% in linux (see reason 14).

16 Ported applications
mac ports a lot of its stuff to windows, anything a lot of people use that apple has made will have a windows version.windows also ports a lot of things back to mac as well. anything of any use on linux also has a windows version (http://windows.kde.org/)microsoft are yet to port any version of any of their software to linux.
Open office ---yes
avidemux --- yes
quanta---yes
kompozer---yes
abiword---yes
gnucash--yes
thunderbird--yes
amsn--yes
pidgin--yes
apache,mysql,php--yes
aptana--yes
gimp--yes
Archimedes-yes
Blender ---yes
inkscape--yes
audacity--yes
mplayer--yes
the list goes on and on, how will linux ever get ahead if everything you can do on it, you can do on windows with the same software.
[/COLOR][/SIZE][/QUOTE]
3rd Party Support AGAIN. :mad:

Seriously. If Adobe, Autodesk, Microsoft do not port their Applications to Linux, and the Linux Community has ported their applications for Windows, does that make Linux inferior.

Say if Halo 3 is not available for PS3 and Wii, is it Sony's problem?

I hope I wont be called a Linux Fanboy or Zealot or retard for counterarguing; here or outside this forum.

ronnielsen1

September 7th, 2008, 01:45 PM

Sounds like you're wanting to argue. I don't. I don't know how long you've been using linux but you're registered at Ubuntu forums since May 15th of this year. Assuming this is the first distro you've tried (assuming - could be wrong) you have used linux for almost 4 months.
I am so much not a guru. I'm an electrician that got so fed up with security issues that I decided to try out linux in a dual boot environment and eventually went to linux full time. It allows me to do everything I want to do on my computer.
I've seen major advances in linux since 2004. In 2004 I wouldn't recommend linux to anyone other than people that were fairly technical. Now, my mother runs it and has no problems.

I know I've been able to format my hard drive (in seconds - not hours using an outdated dos system) install an operating system, surf the net, play a game and download something to a flash drive all at the same time (in less than 15 minutes) I was also able to use my computer when I had a hard drive crash last year. Try that on windows.

1web development
Web Development (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=898353) isnt possible on ubuntu, well at least not without building sites that work on only 20% of browsers.

I wouldn't know about this. I've never made a web site. I've heard that some people are successful at this. I'm pretty sure Google and Amazon was able to pull it off.

2fixing issues
windows can fix a lot of problems without a command line, such as driver issues, corrupted hardisks, virus intrusion(if people bothered to write viruses for linux im pretty sure you would need to fix them with the command line)

So can Linux. Sometimes it's faster in command line. I also have had to fix certain issues in windows from a command line

It's sometimes necessary, or preferable, to use the command line to access certain utilities in Windows. Once you become profecient in using command line utilities, you may never go back to the Windows Graphical User Interface. Some of the following command line (or DOS prompt) may not work depending on your version of Windows.
http://www.pctechbytes.com/computer/article-48.html

3managing a web development environment
Web development on windows with wamp is far easier to manage than on linux with lamp, for one thing theres no need to type:
"sudo /etc/init.d/apache2" restart to have apache restart, just click the restart apache icon, all of the .conf and .ini files can be accessed from the start menu, the default apache.conf always works.
Again I don't know

4hardware
when you buy hardware for windows, its works on windows, when you buy hardware thats linux friendly it doesn't always work (check this very forum). especially after an update, look around this forum and look at how many people downgraded back to 7.10 due to hardware issues.

Valid point so I stay away from Lexmark. It's got alot better than it used to be. I believe it will continue to improve as Linux becomes more prevalent.

5web interactive software
when a big website offers a download of a program to interface with their site better it will always work on windows / or work on windows better: skype is useless on linux or so ive heard, veoh tv is not for linux, and a whole bunch of firefox addons are not for linux, most mmorpgs, even some sites disallow linux just type "citibank linux" into google and see what i'm talking about etc etc.
Valid point. Getting better

6Focus
A lot of linux distributions do not seem to be focused too much on the desktop, only a few of them are, granted every once in a while you get your average windows clone (http://www.reactos.org/en/screenshots.html) but overall linux distro developers dont really seem to be aimed at the desktop, if every or at least most distros were focused on the desktop and theres nearly 350 of them (http://distrowatch.com/search.php?category=All&origin=All&basedon=All&desktop=All&architecture=All&status=Active) linux would be making leaps and bounds towards the desktop.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Are you looking for a windows clone? I was when I first started with linux. I wouldn't want one now. I can do what I want with my desktop.

7Messed up system
the only way you can screw up a windows installation is by installing any random dodgy 3rd party .exe file you find in the back alleys of the internet, go rooting around in the windows folder when you know you don't know what you are doing/ or with bad 3rd party advice, installing dodgy second hand 3rd party ebay hardware, other than that, fresh installing windows and installing a bunch of popular well known apps is pretty much perfectly safe.

In ubuntu you can break your system by installing Official updates.

You have got to be kidding?!

8Gaming
Valid point. My son agrees but he also agrees it's getting alot better.

9user interaction
(1)windows is amazing here, everything is pretty well laid out, all the programs are stored in a folder called "programs" your stuff are in documents and settings, and the system stuff are in windows, (2)the add/remove in windows is amazing for noobs. (3)windows movie maker is so easy even the morons that populate youtube can work (4)with it, ctrl-alt-del > end task , is usually the only major command windows users ever need to learn (its true trust me),(5) Blue screens are a {insert bad word} but AT LEAST they tell you what broke, often computer noobs simply recite the error message to a tech guy over the phone, and are guided through the fixing procedure , via gui (safe mode) etc, etc etc,

You are free to make a folder callled Program and stick everything in there if you want. My sister criticized Windows years ago for that. I'll stick with the way linux organizes folders. When I install something in linux I know which folders it's going to install it in unless I choose to install it in my home directory. I know I can always find something and I know it's not going to hide stuff from me. If I get an error in linux I can always find out what caused the error and resolve it. If I mess up and break my install I can be up and running with all my files in minutes.
http://www.tuxfiles.org/linuxhelp/linuxdir.html

(1)In ubuntu from fresh install you start off with with about 15 folders in your "my computer/root" relativeley confusing from get go. (2)Add/remove programs in ubuntu is magnificent, however going up stream for a program is not something a computer noob cant do,(3) avidemux/kino is no where near as easy/stripped down as movie maker , (4)ctl-alt-del doesent exist on ubuntu , however in xubuntu/kubuntu ctrl-alt-esc and clicking on an offending program does the job, clicking on the desktop kills the session, not quite noob safe, kill a process in windows and it warns you, but you can easily kill the desktop in k/xubuntu without warning. Either way this functionality is not available in ubuntu.
The file system messed with me when I first started - had a hard time with / and /root. I learned to basically ignore the /root and the file system started making sense to me eventually. I'm not sure what you mean by my computer/root but I'm in kde right now.
(2) There's places you can go to at least help with this. Some games etc are downloaded as an installer which is a little harder than an exe and I'll give you a valid point for this one but it also is getting better.
(3) haven't played with either one
(4)
I setup alt-ctrl-del to open gnome-system-monitor and the terminal to I can open both these with a keypress.
http://www.ubuntu-unleashed.com/2008/04/ubuntu-tweak-030-released-for-ubuntu.html
as well as cntrl-alt-backsp and cntrl-alt-esc.

10The command line
i constantly read posts where newbie linux users come with problems or queries and are guided towards their solution with a command they need to run from the terminal, despite the fact that in many cases there is a GUI alternative or even an actual GUI program.
desent seem too bad, does it?, problem is most users wont want to learn the command line and memorize commands, so what happens is you get a whole bunch of newbies completely dependent on UF for everything,
*show up*
*demand code*
*copy-paste*
*go away only to return tomorrow with another/the same query*
often i see people demanding code to do things even my mother can do in the windows control panel.

More experienced users often say the command line is great, its faster, its safer than rooting around, its easier to give help, etc etc, bull , in suse linux i could give anyone the the solution to pretty much any of the common problems suse has just by saying one word "YaST/2", now why would suse developers, waste time developing that if the command line was better? serously have you seen what YaST can do , im impressed.
Lets be fair im pretty sure the gimp, blender, OpenOffice and quanta all have superb CLI implementations, but but to new users i'd recommend giving the GUI alterntive before the CLI solution to stop things like this (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7594249.stm) happening.
Valid point. I would have to agree
11 & 12 Ok
13 Not sure where you are getting your info
14 I've switched windows in the past because I couldn't run the old apps or I wanted to run the new apps
As far as installing things available yes you have to know how to do it - you have to choose the proper file and I too wish it wasn't as broken as it is.
15 As Linux becomes more prevalent this will change. It's changed an amazing amount since 2004. I know someone going to school right now for computers and the instructors are saying that Windows will be a distant memory in about 8 years.

microsoft are yet to port any version of any of their software to linux
:lolflag: Not going too either

radical3

September 7th, 2008, 02:13 PM

I cannot help but respond to this one. I have used windows before because I did not know better and Linux don't promote their OS but microsoft has had all the major connections with the big software companies but that is changing and Linux will take over soon.

What can Windows do that Linux can't?

(1)Widows run much slower then Linux. It takes so much time for windows to open and run a program. (2)They are not secure. You get all sort of **** (bugs)with windows.(3) They are expensive and (4)I would stress that they are for dumb people in general because they are easy to use (USABILITY). (5)I find Linux easy to use as well but a lot of people are not familiar with Linux and that should change. I think that Linux should take over the industry. Anyway there are so many other things that shows

(6)Linux is far superior to windows or Mac and I would never go back to windows.(7) I don't know why so many businesses don't run Linux on their networks!!! it is cost effective and they will not spend so much money on stupid windows or mac (8 )plus they will get an OS that is much more reliable than other competitors.
I think that more drivers should be available to Linux.

First may i start with a "ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha"
now :

(1)Typing the words "Firefox" "slow" into the search on this site using the "search titles only" function returns 188 results (http://ubuntuforums.org/search.php?searchid=47608431)and thats not counting the people who didnt open up a thread instead replied to an existing one, thats just firefox. who knows what else is slow.

typing "boot" "slow" returns 250 results (http://ubuntuforums.org/search.php?searchid=47608526) on how *buntu is booting slower than xp, using the same "titles only" functionality . or 5th highest concern in the ubuntu brainstorm (http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/42/) will enlighten you that ubuntu is indeed slow. which is why personally run the bare bones xubuntu, because ubuntu is slow at everything ive ever tried it with, and ive got serious ram.

(2)then just pull out the modem.....there 100% safe computing, or stop using IE's activex (which installs stuff without user intervention) dont open up dodgy .exe's you find on the internet, or simply do what i do; install xp on the same computer twice, keep everything of any value on the xp installation you dont use, then your free to reformat and install the one you do use every few weeks, works a charm, still keep all my settings and stuff intact, its only common sense.

(3)so . If you said microsoft go around forcing people to pay for xp even running up debts on peoples card, then you'd have a point, but you can go to numerous online shops(even real shops) that will sell you an OS-less computer. people also download windows, vista was craked within the month it came out, you cant argue with that, yet if you go to the piratebay.org xp is much more seeded and downloaded than vista by miles. Cost means nothing if people wont even steal vista.

(4)Operating systems that make life easier instead of harder are for dumb people???

computers have become like cars, healthcare, housing, as in they are not a want but a need, a "must have", however there are so many "must haves" these days you cant be a master of them all.
Everyone needs healthcare, but not every one is a doctor who knows the symptoms of Pulmonary Fibrosis of by heart and can treat them selves, does that make people who go to a clinic/GP/hospital "dumb"
everyone needs a car these days, unless public transport is fantastic where you live. and im pretty sure you've driven/ridden in, a car before, but not everyone knows how to fix engines and spark plugs, and exhausts 'n stuff. Does that mean people who take their cars to the mechanic are "dumb"
Housing is a must have, and im pretty sure you have a roof over you head to house you and your internet connection, how if i quizzed you in any genre of architecture, landscaping, construction how would you fair? what next people who dont build/design/fix plumbing/re-paint/extend, their homes are "dumb"
Usuability in computing is "dumb" ???? then why does linux have ANY GUI at all???

(5)heres a funny part
they are for dumb people in general because they are easy to use (USABILITY). I find Linux easy to use
Nice , people are "dumb" because windows is easy to use, you then followed that sentence with " I find Linux easy to use"
i can only gather from this that "ease of use" is "dumb" when its anybody else(other than you) using a computer (without linux installed) and not encountering numerous hardware,software, web based problems on a regular basis, vista is wack but their service pack fixed a butt-load of problems and apparently made vista usuable, official *buntu service packs/updates often break peoples systems, may i suggest instead that your statement is "dumb"?
(funny guy :lolflag:)

(6)i gave 16 points as to what windows can do that linux cant, however you've managed to debunk them all with one sentence "Linux is far superior to windows or Mac" no examples, quotes, links to sources....... nothing, i dont get it ??? aren't you going to reply to anything i said in this post (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=5740590&postcount=445)

(7)I've heard that many microsoft patents are broken by runlevel 5 [multi-user, networking, X11] on linux, despite this suse linux enterprise desktop (sled) (http://www.novell.com/products/desktop/) has quite a few customers, but then again if you've ever booted suse you can almost smell the professionalism , i mean come on have you seen what you can do with YaST?? moreover around here i hear suse is the devil, come on now, industries are using suse on the desktop everyday, but novell made a deal with MS so it doesn't count??
dell are avidly selling linux, but they are more expensive or the same price as windows pc's and are only pre-order only, so is dell the devil???

this whole {insert powerful people here} are not doing {insert action here} with linux, is bull , people are making leaps and bonds with linux every damn day, linux is on most hand-held devices, dominates server enterprise, and is often used on embedded devices (tivo),

This point you make has fallen on its face.

(8 ) DEBIAN SSL (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/05/21/massive_debian_openssl_hangover/), perl broken on redhat (http://blog.vipul.net/2008/08/24/redhat-perl-what-a-tragedy/)
*IE is merged into explorer thats unsafe*
*konqueror*
suspend and hibernate (http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/94/)
no Gui for networking (http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/4//)
smaba's a nightmare (http://blogs.sun.com/tdw/entry/a_bit_of_a_samba)
and many many more that i pointed out in the post you made no direct reference to.

shqip your a :KS

ronnielsen1

September 7th, 2008, 03:14 PM

Last post because I'm not going to fuel the flame (not sure why you're here if ubuntu sucks that much - tried lxde?)

(1)Typing the words "Firefox" "slow" into the search on this site using the "search titles only" function returns 188 results (http://ubuntuforums.org/search.php?searchid=47608431)and thats not counting the people who didnt open up a thread instead replied to an existing one, thats just firefox. who knows what else is slow.

so it brings up all instances of the words firefox and slow. If you type in internet explorer slow in the Ubuntu forums - it will bring up 175 responses. I doubt we have anyone running IE here. If you take it further and search using firefox for the following you will get:

Results 1 - 10 of about 477,000 for firefox slow (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&q=http://www.answers.com/slow%26r%3D67&usg=AFQjCNF543Qk5sDDqpNxOuyjifPGTctOAw)
Results 1 - 10 of about 26,700,000 for opera (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&q=http://www.answers.com/opera%26r%3D67&usg=AFQjCNEFrechxPsZB7b_1bqs03uqWX-DUA)
slow (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&q=http://www.answers.com/slow%26r%3D67&usg=AFQjCNF543Qk5sDDqpNxOuyjifPGTctOAw)
.
Results 1 - 10 of about 6,530,000 for internet (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&q=http://www.answers.com/internet%26r%3D67&usg=AFQjCNFdmDcV9XCK9drQtpUFLK7yVG2o9A)
explorer (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&q=http://www.answers.com/explorer%26r%3D67&usg=AFQjCNHkuHLBunIRLVQrhanumkAShBl4aA)
slow (http://www.google.com/url?sa=X&oi=dict&q=http://www.answers.com/slow%26r%3D67&usg=AFQjCNF543Qk5sDDqpNxOuyjifPGTctOAw)

I'm not sure what your point is. I like firefox and Opera.

Swiat

September 7th, 2008, 03:59 PM

Where to start? Maybe with a short introduction. I switched from Microsoft a little over a year ago. My first Ubuntu installation was Gusty Gibbon and I have been running Hardy Heron since it was offered as an update; Spring of this year. I should perhaps mention that I only run Ubuntu on my Asus A7U 17 inch screen laptop (no dual boot here).

Although I have been a frequent reader of the posts in this forum, I did not feel the need to register and post - until now. I have to say that ronnielsen1 is absolutely right - even in the short amount of time that I have been using Ubuntu, the progress being made is nothing short of remarkable and given the pace of improvements, I predict that we are looking at two years before this type of OS becomes fully mainstream.

Having experience as both an individual user and business owner, I had been a "loyal" subscriber to the Microsoft way since Windows 95, and later Windows 98, and still later Windows Millenium (ME) and finally XP. XP was the tipping point for me.

I know of no other successful company, and from a business perspective, Microsoft is a hugely successful company, that year after year has been able to pull off the "ship it and then fix it" approach to doing business. My hat goes off to Bill, as he has managed to do something that is a historical first. I have to wonder however if his business mentor wasn't PT Barnum? Anyway, the business model works for Bill. As an individual and business end-user, it didn't always work for me. Just a few highlights of my more than ten years with Bill:

- thousands of crashes equaling ohh so many gigabytes of lost data
- bugs and security glitches (I lost count of the number of updates downloaded to "fix" the problems - stopped counting back in 1999)
- compatibility issues with other programs
- costs associated with upgrading to the next great version of MS
- loss of usage of programs which would not run on newest version of MS I had upgraded to (my personal loss - not including business related losses, runs into the thousands of dollars) - Why couldn't MS make their new versions "backward" compatible?
- and of course, XP's total control of the OS and the user agreement which stated that Microsoft could shut down my usage of the program, should they so choose,
- Reading Microsoft's EULA (End User License agreement) should be required reading for everyone, unfortunately most people find it too difficult. A real piece of work. For those that somehow feel more secure using a proprietary program, its great to know that Microsoft stands behind its product and will cover damage associated with the use of its program up to $5 (five bucks) or the value of the software purchased. Thats comforting to know. Maybe something has changed since I quit with XP but I doubt it.

As for Ubuntu, I have had no problems whatsoever. None! Yes I did have to do a little work to get certain things up and running, but I've had to work my whole life, so I didn't see that as much of an obstacle. I guess I don't really understand the notion of "instantaneous gratification", and its definitely not something I ever experienced using Microsoft.

radical3

September 7th, 2008, 04:10 PM

You mean developing or testing the websites?
Well Remember Since Microsoft does not create a native version of Internet Explorer for Linux, I guess you cannot test it without using a virtualised environment of XP.

microsoft dosent port internet explorer, that didnt stop ies4linux, it still doesent work properly.not to mention there are no developer tools to get around it with , other that installing xp (virtual or not)
tell me im lying , linux users ALWAYS say, "there's alternative everything windows" "linux is better than windows" "theres nothing you can do with windows i cant do with linux"
they even build build websites saying this. (http://www.whylinuxisbetter.net/)

Well I admit lack of GUIs is a problem. Though using command line is not as bad as you make it sound.

i dont care about the command line FOR MYSELF, what concerns me is that the command line will put off MOST computer users, yet linux user want "most" users to use linux. call them stupid or whatever, they make up the numbers that give easy GUI windows their power. show me a popular command line based website/program/smartphone/pda/games console thats taken the world by storm in this day and age, and i'll show you my vagina ( im male).

Create a symbolic link to the files and folders as well as creating a script may suffice but apparently you wont prefer it that way.

or boot into xp and just click next in the gui installer after clicking on the mysql,apache, php .exe/msi files, no need to create scripts.

No. Linux Friendly Hardware work extremely well in Linux. Unless you are screwing up the definition of Linux-Friendly hardware. Use an HP printer for instance and you'll know. Anyway you should realise thr lacklustre attitude of Hardware manufacturers has more to take blame than the *nix platform itself.
yes hardware manufacturers wont make hardware for an OS that takes up 0.8% of the market where they could make a real financial killing, couldnt they. Or they wont make hardware for an OS that failed at walmart (http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/03/10/google-focused-linux-pcs-fail-at-wal-mart/), Or an Os you need to write 349 drivers for (http://distrowatch.com/search.php?category=All&origin=All&basedon=All&desktop=All&architecture=All&status=Active) or give away your secrets/source thus give away your hardware company. i dont know why we dont blame harware providers more often for not providing hardware for such a stable, successful , cross-compatible (like *bsd's with other *bsd's) operating system , used by people who dont want to pay for computer related stuff(i know i dont :) )

Again lack of Third-Party Support in Linux is bad. Oh well in a way you are right...
lack of ........its easy to blame isnt it? i pointed out that even google who are pro-linux (http://www.google.com/linux) in fact super pro-linux (http://www.google.com/linuxrepositories/) are finding it difficult tying to make all of their stuff, linux compatible. blame blame blame, the 3rd party world, but what the hell's that gonna fix :confused:.

Well Ubuntu is quite focused with desktop. Yes there is lot of fragmentation of distros and lack of focus but believe me it is much better than few years ago. Remeber NT? It took even the Giants of Microsoft years to create a good solid reliable platform in form of W2K.

NT is nearly a decade old, im talking about the fact that today in 2008 people are jumping at the nearest shiny gui application/whatever (http://www.apple.com/) thus resulting in the fact that a largely text/command line based operating system such as linux cannot even be given away for free with ease. and fails when being sold (http://www.linspire.com/)

linux is FREE, Microsoft charge, yet linux has >1% of desktop use, in fact most people have never heard of it, isn't this something worth discussing?
McDonalds charge but if the Hilton hotels restaurants started giving away free food McD's would be out of business faster than you can say "unfit for human consumption" (http://mooon15.jeeran.com/chicken_head_nugget1.jpg)
why? because people are stupid? or one is better than the other?

Not true exactly. Updates rarely cause problems. Yes people face problems as highlighted in these forums but remember this is a Support Forum.
Tell that to the people who's stuff dont work anymore.

Again 3rd Party and Microsoft. Developers create games mainly in D3D rather than OpenGL so very few games are made for Linux.
However there are few good OSS games and well as id software's games and also tons of games which can run in WINE.
if no one is using linux, and you have to recompile you program 300 times to run it on every linux why would anyone bother???
besides as soon as a big name in gaming makes a gmae to run on linux, everyone will shoot it down for for its efforts to help linux (http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/10088638/Stop_Advertising_Windows_Vista_On_Your_Linux_Pages ), spread FUD, then eventually boycott them, for not doing it their way. (http://boycottnovell.com/)
its easy to blame, its harder to make leaps towards an os people can run without ever having to look at a terminal, (this is possible in win95/98/2k/ME/xp/vista)
blame 3rd party but if linux had 10% marketshare (which is more than apple) 3rd party developers would ungzip your pants && suck on your tarballs. whilst writing articles like "windows will never beat linux" (http://aplawrence.com/Linux/beat_windows.html).

Rmember since you are more used to Windows, that is Why Windows way seems better. And IMHO, cut copy and pasting command is not really difficult.
Bull , windows can be taught to kids (http://www.softwareforkids.com/) try telling a kid to recompile his kernel with with his nvidia driver in it, so can watch scooby doo (http://www.parteaz.co.uk/cms/files/Scooby%20Doo%20icon.jpg).

Because it is much easier for a poster to post:
Code:
sudo apt-get install vlc
than
First go to Applications, then got to....
Very long IMO.

In support forums, command line would always be preferred
However the GUIs exist so that users figure out easily. If a user in the forum demands for a GUI reply, a GUI reply will be given. But most users are satisfied with the cut copy paste commands.

easier to post for you, harder to learn for the person requesting help

The Patents thingy is MS FUD and such laws is not applicable for all countries.
As for the silverlight platform, Novell is making Moonlight its implementation for Linux.
And anyway most of these technolgies as MS based and MS will make sure they do not work for Linux as far as they can do.
Seriously can you blame lack of rival support on a rival?
4500 registered patents isnt fud, its law. and our linux buddies want us to boycott moonlight (http://boycottnovell.com/2007/06/24/moonlight-pet-project/)
Ms based software doesent work on linux, MS make sure of that. Linux based software always works windows linux makes sure of that (http://windows.kde.org/).see a problem ???

True to an extent but it is not as bad as you make it sound.
349 incompatible linux operating systems which not surprisingly no one wants to make software for, is not actually bad its just me taking it sound bad???
all the *bsd's are compatible with each other, development is structured, you cant just dump your stuff in the bsd kernel, probably why osx is based off the bsd kernel, and why apple cant STFU (http://www.apple.com/getamac/).

3rd Party Support AGAIN.

Seriously. If Adobe, Autodesk, Microsoft do not port their Applications to Linux, and the Linux Community has ported their applications for Windows, does that make Linux inferior.

Say if Halo 3 is not available for PS3 and Wii, is it Sony's problem?

I hope I wont be called a Linux Fanboy or Zealot or retard for counterarguing; here or outside this forum.
__________________
you cant bunch windows and adobe in the same argument they produce two different things.

your halo analogy makes me want to cry.
halo is made by microsoft who also happen to make the console xbx360
of course they can keep the game for themselves, but so what????
when sega used to make games and a console, they kept all their games and ideas for themselves thats why, everyone copied them
first console to use cd's to store games ---sega mega cd
first console to introduce an analog stick on the gamepad---sega saturn
first console with a wireless pad ---dreamcast
first ever handheld LED BACK-LIT colour gaming device capable of saving --sega game gear(took nintendo 8 years to do the same thing and gameboy color didn't even have a backlight so you couldn't play it in the dark. fail)

people keeping things for themselves or getting there first DOES NOT mean anything. todays sega's consoles are all discontinued.

windows sucks , but linux isnt doing anything about that

i give up when people regurgitate the same "fanboy anti-ms let blame everyone else story", they will get a pat on the back , but when anybody gets up and says "crap, were free, and still no one wants us, people would rather PAY for microsoft" they get a kick in the tarballs for not spelling Microsoft with a dollar sign $ .

Canis familiaris

September 7th, 2008, 04:24 PM

windows sucks ,

May I know why?

Since I think Linux would not cut it for you. I think you need to use Windows. Could you tell us what problems you are facing in Windows and We could try and help you in solving those since in the end of the day you want your work finished, Don't You?

EDIT: As Linux being free and still not being used, I would like to remind you that for most people Windows is free too.
You can read my complete opinion in this regard here, if you wish:
http://dogbuntu.wordpress.com/2007/06/05/how-piracy-hurts-open-source/

your halo analogy makes me want to cry.
halo is made by microsoft who also happen to make the console xbx360
of course they can keep the game for themselves, but so what????

Exactly Microsoft has created Internet Explorer, MS Office, etc., and it has the highest market share so Of course they would want to keep the software to their platform and not port to a real threat.

w3rt

September 7th, 2008, 04:28 PM

I think gaming is the only good point about windows, I have been able to play most of my favorite games through wine, there has only been 1 or 2 that have not worked, although I am not a big gamer, Iam sure there are other people who have had big problems with games, but at the end of the day you can just dual boot a linux distro and windows to suite both your needs, obviously not the ideal solution, but i think if Ubuntu continues to become more popular through each release it will only be a matter of time until new games will be made linux compatible

lowstand

September 7th, 2008, 04:34 PM

yes i am up in age a little not to bad an i normally game daily from time i get up til time i pass out im retired had a bad accident back at age 18 an retired after hip replacement in 1996 i do play heavy games such as eve- online been on it since beta but it works with Ubuntu and so do alot of other linux games i have ofund so far that linux format games run smoother just an idea of your base age group in eve - online lets see in our alliance there is almost 6000 people most of them range in age between 18 to 78 yrs of age

Swiat

September 7th, 2008, 05:21 PM

linux is FREE, Microsoft charge, yet linux has >1% of desktop use, in fact most people have never heard of it, isn't this something worth discussing?

With the money Microsoft spends on marketing (and it is in the billions), I could make you king of the world - however unfit you may be to rule:)

In 2008 Microsoft is spending in excess of $300 million dollars to improve its corporate image with a campaign prepared by Crispin Porter + Bogusky (the same guys who did the Subservient Chicken viral campaign for Burger King - one of my favorite ad agencies). They are also going to increase the 2008 ad campaign for Vista by another $200 million. Over the previous 2 years before the launch of Vista, Microsoft spent over $500 million. This is just part of their ADVERTISING budget. Marketing expenditures include a host of vendor programs (think about those great stickers on new computers (Vista Installed), as well as all the computer ad campaigns featuring Microsoft, school programs and heavy duty public relations spending, just to name a few. If you further add the brutal tactics they use to squeeze out the competition, you have anything but a level playing field.

If Ubuntu had anything even near Microsoft's gargantuan marketing budget, you could say "hasta la VISTA" to Bill and company.

karellen

September 7th, 2008, 06:29 PM

EDIT: As Linux being free and still not being used, I would like to remind you that for most people Windows is free too.
You can read my complete opinion in this regard here, if you wish:
http://dogbuntu.wordpress.com/2007/0...s-open-source/

you speak the truth man. I've just read your blog post and I can assure that here in my country (Romania) the situation is just the same. Windows & virtually any software is free as in beer because it's pirated

Swiat

September 7th, 2008, 07:20 PM

free as in beer

Thought you might like to know. The expression "free as in beer" means that something must be bought - you have to pay for it. Free beer doesn't exist - unfortunately:(

karellen

September 7th, 2008, 07:24 PM

Thought you might like to know. The expression "free as in beer" means that something must be bought - you have to pay for it. Free beer doesn't exist - unfortunately:(

freeware ;)

cometa2k7

September 7th, 2008, 08:04 PM

(1)how does windows cripple your websites?? i understand IE crippling websites but how does windows cripple them ??? neither "windows" or "linux" are web browsers, or ultra/text editors.

(2)build a site in windows with quanta/dreamweaver and firefox and you can use the IEtab addon to switch between firefox and IE inside of firefox, thus checking your site in well over 70% of all browsers ON THE FLY, However build a site on linux and you will need to boot out of linux and into windows to check your site in browsers most people use, basically you cant start in linux and finish in linux, but you can start in xp and finish in xp.

(3)More people use IE6/7 than people use any linux browser + firefox/opera/safari + any linux distribution + OSX combined, basically if you cant check in IE6/7 you cant build any sites.Im already searching for a solution as we speak (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=898353) but no-one has pointed me towards any linux based developer tools that can make sites IE safe. :(

p.s why didnt you make mention of any of the other 15 points i made??? :(

@ronnielsen1
thanks for side stepping all my points, the power of freedom eh

If you take just a little time to check the code, and maybe have it validated by http://validator.w3.org/ it should work in EVERY browser that supports the DOCTYPE.

I trusted Quanta with my schoolwork when I needed a website, and I use Linux for any bits of coding I'm doing.

If it doesn't work in IE, it's either IE that wrong, or the person that wrote the site.

Barrucadu

September 7th, 2008, 09:37 PM

(1)how does windows cripple your websites?? i understand IE crippling websites but how does windows cripple them ??? neither "windows" or "linux" are web browsers, or ultra/text editors.

I never said that, you just stated that websites made in Linux only worked in 20% of the browsers, and for that to be true, Linux would need to have something running to randomly edit XHTML files to make that the case.

stinger30au

September 7th, 2008, 10:55 PM

I just been wondering what other users have found that windows is able to do that linux (more specifically ubuntu) cant do...

windows does a much better job of ubuntu of gettin full of virii, malware, spyware, that bog your pc down.

windows needs a lot of extra over heads to make it more secure therefore chewing thru extra cpu cycles running virus s/w and the likes

windows does a great job of fragmenting the hard drives and making the machine run slower and slower

windows does a great job of opening holes in your lan and letting intruders in to it with out your knowledge or consent

linsux

September 8th, 2008, 03:43 PM

Canis familiaris

September 8th, 2008, 04:59 PM

One thing Linux can do that Windows cannot is use massive amounts of bandwidth for updates. Seriously, what about the people that have dial-up/limited bandwidth? I'd say this is a big issue facing Linux Desktop adoption, simply because in a perfect world, everyone would have unlimited bandwidth and fast internet, but we don't live in that world I guess.
I dunno about Updates since you really don't need to update if you have limited bandwidth but your post is true for installing additional applications since it is not quite straightforward say if you liked a program and want it to install on a friend's computer which has no internet since offline installation of programs in Linux is tricky.

Sephoroth

September 8th, 2008, 05:54 PM

microsoft dosent port internet explorer, that didnt stop ies4linux, it still doesent work properly.not to mention there are no developer tools to get around it with , other that installing xp (virtual or not)
tell me im lying , linux users ALWAYS say, "there's alternative everything windows" "linux is better than windows" "theres nothing you can do with windows i cant do with linux"
they even build build websites saying this. (http://www.whylinuxisbetter.net/)

Just as many Windows users believe nothing can be done and Linux and believe everything must be done in a CLI. I'd say the vast majority of general tasks (with the exception of gaming or use of very specific programs outside of WINE).

i dont care about the command line FOR MYSELF, what concerns me is that the command line will put off MOST computer users, yet linux user want "most" users to use linux. call them stupid or whatever, they make up the numbers that give easy GUI windows their power. show me a popular command line based website/program/smartphone/pda/games console thats taken the world by storm in this day and age, and i'll show you my vagina ( im male).

Most tasks can be performed via a GUI. A CLI however is often the faster and easier way to instruct someone to perform that task when they can simply copy + paste a command (e.g. it is easier if I post sudo apt-get install a, b, c, d, e, f, g, h, i, j, etc. as opposed to telling them to install everything via Synaptic one-by-one. A CLI also allows a large amount of debug information to be provided.

or boot into xp and just click next in the gui installer after clicking on the mysql,apache, php .exe/msi files, no need to create scripts.

No idea what happened here but one can easily install any of those via Synaptic which IMO is easier as you don't have to manually browse to 3 different websites to get the installers in the first place.

yes hardware manufacturers wont make hardware for an OS that takes up 0.8% of the market where they could make a real financial killing, couldnt they. Or they wont make hardware for an OS that failed at walmart (http://www.techcrunch.com/2008/03/10/google-focused-linux-pcs-fail-at-wal-mart/), Or an Os you need to write 349 drivers for (http://distrowatch.com/search.php?category=All&origin=All&basedon=All&desktop=All&architecture=All&status=Active) or give away your secrets/source thus give away your hardware company. i dont know why we dont blame harware providers more often for not providing hardware for such a stable, successful , cross-compatible (like *bsd's with other *bsd's) operating system , used by people who dont want to pay for computer related stuff(i know i dont :) )

Many hardware companies do create Linux compatible hardware. It is up to the end user to determine what will run in their XP, Vista, Mac OS X, Linux, FreeBSD, etc. installation before purchasing the product. If I buy hardware that was designed for Vista and therefore won't run in Windows 2000 or XP how exactly is that the hardware companies fault (assuming they never claimed it would run in 2000/XP)?

lack of ........its easy to blame isnt it? i pointed out that even google who are pro-linux (http://www.google.com/linux) in fact super pro-linux (http://www.google.com/linuxrepositories/) are finding it difficult tying to make all of their stuff, linux compatible. blame blame blame, the 3rd party world, but what the hell's that gonna fix :confused:.

Be more specific as to which instance of Google you are referring to.

NT is nearly a decade old, im talking about the fact that today in 2008 people are jumping at the nearest shiny gui application/whatever (http://www.apple.com/) thus resulting in the fact that a largely text/command line based operating system such as linux cannot even be given away for free with ease. and fails when being sold (http://www.linspire.com/)

linux is FREE, Microsoft charge, yet linux has >1% of desktop use, in fact most people have never heard of it, isn't this something worth discussing?
McDonalds charge but if the Hilton hotels restaurants started giving away free food McD's would be out of business faster than you can say "unfit for human consumption" (http://mooon15.jeeran.com/chicken_head_nugget1.jpg)
why? because people are stupid? or one is better than the other?[/quote]

Remember, the masses typically ARE stupid XD. However, that is unrelated to the low Linux user share IMO. There are a few major differences:
1. Existing software compatibility. People often do not switch because they are often afraid of software compatibility (sometimes correctly whereas other times not). MS started up back in 1975, the Linux kernel was first written in 1991. MS has had more time in the general market and by the 90's they were huge therefore causing by far more incentive for software companies to develop for Windows as opposed to the still young Linux (as Linux has been maturing, we've seen more and more software available for it).

2. Advertising. Linux for the most part is non-profit and hence won't be displaying many advertisements in general.

3. Your comparison with free food does not work well since people will typically eat the same no matter where they are (unless they are thrown out of the restaurant for whatever reason XD). People tend not to like unnecessary change and hence may not see a reason to switch to Linux if they are content with Windows (most receive Windows licenses free anyways with a computer purchase).[/quote]

Tell that to the people who's stuff dont work anymore.
Tell that to those who dislike Vista XD.

if no one is using linux, and you have to recompile you program 300 times to run it on every linux why would anyone bother???
besides as soon as a big name in gaming makes a gmae to run on linux, everyone will shoot it down for for its efforts to help linux (http://www.ideastorm.com/article/show/10088638/Stop_Advertising_Windows_Vista_On_Your_Linux_Pages ), spread FUD, then eventually boycott them, for not doing it their way. (http://boycottnovell.com/)
its easy to blame, its harder to make leaps towards an os people can run without ever having to look at a terminal, (this is possible in win95/98/2k/ME/xp/vista)
blame 3rd party but if linux had 10% marketshare (which is more than apple) 3rd party developers would ungzip your pants && suck on your tarballs. whilst writing articles like "windows will never beat linux" (http://aplawrence.com/Linux/beat_windows.html).

Bull , windows can be taught to kids (http://www.softwareforkids.com/) try telling a kid to recompile his kernel with with his nvidia driver in it, so can watch scooby doo (http://www.parteaz.co.uk/cms/files/Scooby%20Doo%20icon.jpg).

I agree with you to an extent here. However, one can probably find a script here that automates Envy usage for such drivers. Personally though my GPU worked fine out of the box in Ubuntu (Nvidia 6800) excluding when I used the Hardy Heron beta.

easier to post for you, harder to learn for the person requesting help
Harder to learn? To an extent yes but one can easily post a reply asking what the commands did step by step. As I said above, a CLI allows for easier diagnosing of a problem due to debug information and since it lowers the possibility that a user will mess up when performing instructions (it is hard to copy + paste incorrectly). As already said, a GUI method can easily be requested so the person may know for future reference.

4500 registered patents isnt fud, its law. and our linux buddies want us to boycott moonlight (http://boycottnovell.com/2007/06/24/moonlight-pet-project/)
MS based software doesent work on linux, MS make sure of that. Linux based software always works windows linux makes sure of that (http://windows.kde.org/).see a problem ???

There is little that can be done to force MS to produce Linux compatible components. I don't believe software available to Linux users should be kept exclusive to Linux either (though I believe extending a feature list is of higher priority than multi-platform compatibility XD).

349 incompatible linux operating systems which not surprisingly no one wants to make software for, is not actually bad its just me taking it sound bad???
all the *bsd's are compatible with each other, development is structured, you cant just dump your stuff in the bsd kernel, probably why osx is based off the bsd kernel, and why apple cant STFU (http://www.apple.com/getamac/).

you cant bunch windows and adobe in the same argument they produce two different things.

your halo analogy makes me want to cry.
halo is made by microsoft who also happen to make the console xbx360
of course they can keep the game for themselves, but so what????
when sega used to make games and a console, they kept all their games and ideas for themselves thats why, everyone copied them
first console to use cd's to store games ---sega mega cd
first console to introduce an analog stick on the gamepad---sega saturn
first console with a wireless pad ---dreamcast
first ever handheld LED BACK-LIT colour gaming device capable of saving --sega game gear(took nintendo 8 years to do the same thing and gameboy color didn't even have a backlight so you couldn't play it in the dark. fail)

people keeping things for themselves or getting there first DOES NOT mean anything. todays sega's consoles are all discontinued.

I don't believe he was saying it is MS's fault that it such multi-platform software does not exist but rather that it isn't the fault of Linux devs. Unrelated, I enjoyed my Sega Nomad even though it "killed" batteries (6 at a time) XD.

windows sucks , but linux isnt doing anything about that

i give up when people regurgitate the same "fanboy anti-ms let blame everyone else story", they will get a pat on the back , but when anybody gets up and says "crap, were free, and still no one wants us, people would rather PAY for microsoft" they get a kick in the tarballs for not spelling Microsoft with a dollar sign $ .

I personally disagree with you. I prefer Linux but run Windows as well (and prefer it to Mac OS X). Some people obviously do want Linux considering the amount of servers and supercomputers it is run on. MS has seen Linux as a threat indicating Linux is indeed doing something. I personally find the Microsoft and "M$" spelling bothersome and there was actually a thread here requesting people stop using such a term.

LaRoza

September 8th, 2008, 06:08 PM

1web development
Web Development (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=898353) isnt possible on ubuntu, well at least not without building sites that work on only 20% of browsers.

If you are going to test on various platforms, you have to use various platforms somehow.

As for "20%" of browsers, I know of only one engine that is Windows only, IE. Linux is a supported platform for almost all browsers.

2fixing issues
windows can fix a lot of problems without a command line, such as driver issues, corrupted hardisks, virus intrusion(if people bothered to write viruses for linux im pretty sure you would need to fix them with the command line)

Your vast experience is lacking. There are some things in Vista that can only be done in the command line, that used to be done in a GUI in XP. Also, Windows (all versions) has tasks that demand the command line. The average person doesn't need to use the command line for daily tasks in a pre-configured system.

3managing a web development environment
Web development on windows with wamp is far easier to manage than on linux with lamp, for one thing theres no need to type:
"sudo /etc/init.d/apache2" restart to have apache restart, just click the restart apache icon, all of the .conf and .ini files can be accessed from the start menu, the default apache.conf always works.

You know, from what you just posted, I could restart apache in Linux, yet'd I'd be unsure of how to do it in Windows as you described.

4hardware
when you buy hardware for windows, its works on windows, when you buy hardware thats linux friendly it doesn't always work (check this very forum). especially after an update, look around this forum and look at how many people downgraded back to 7.10 due to hardware issues.
Experience and anecdotes. I have a webcam that is "certified for Windows Vista". In Ubuntu, I plug it in, and it worked. Flawlessly. Still does. In Windows, it required running a setup program from a CD. I had to reboot. For a webcam. And it only works if I use the same USB port and not always.

I have also had no problems with any hardware in Linux, but have in Windows.

6Focus
windows is focused on the desktop as well as server, embedded and mobile computing.

Is that why their latest server breakthroughs include a CLI only version? Is that why Linux is the OS found on netbooks?

7Messed up system
the only way you can screw up a windows installation is by installing any random dodgy 3rd party .exe file you find in the back alleys of the internet, go rooting around in the windows folder when you know you don't know what you are doing/ or with bad 3rd party advice, installing dodgy second hand 3rd party ebay hardware, other than that, fresh installing windows and installing a bunch of popular well known apps is pretty much perfectly safe.

Um... That is a lot of expceptions.

In ubuntu you can break your system by installing Official updates.
Windows updates have been known to break things. It happens. Updating is always slightly risky for a working system.

9user interaction
(1)windows is amazing here, everything is pretty well laid out, all the programs are stored in a folder called "programs" your stuff are in documents and settings, and the system stuff are in windows, (2)the add/remove in windows is amazing for noobs. (3)windows movie maker is so easy even the morons that populate youtube can work (4)with it, ctrl-alt-del > end task , is usually the only major command windows users ever need to learn (its true trust me),(5) Blue screens are a {insert bad word} but AT LEAST they tell you what broke, often computer noobs simply recite the error message to a tech guy over the phone, and are guided through the fixing procedure , via gui (safe mode) etc, etc etc,

Again, too many assumptions based on your personal experiences.

The directory structure of Windows is complicated and sloppy.

The add/remove in Windows is useless next to the add/remove in Ubuntu (which allows you to add or remove software)

I use xkill to kill tasks in Linux, ctrl + alt + backspace to restart X. Linux has error messages too, don't forget.

(1)In ubuntu from fresh install you start off with with about 15 folders in your "my computer/root" relativeley confusing from get go. (2)Add/remove programs in ubuntu is magnificent, however going up stream for a program is not something a computer noob cant do,(3) avidemux/kino is no where near as easy/stripped down as movie maker , (4)ctl-alt-del doesent exist on ubuntu , however in xubuntu/kubuntu ctrl-alt-esc and clicking on an offending program does the job, clicking on the desktop kills the session, not quite noob safe, kill a process in windows and it warns you, but you can easily kill the desktop in k/xubuntu without warning. Either way this functionality is not available in ubuntu.

No, that is because of your ignorance. The directory structure conforms to a well known standard. It is very easy for me to find stuff in Linux, not so in Windows because it can be anywhere.

[/INDENT]
it constantly feels as if anything of any power has no GUI interface on *buntu

Everything has a GUI of "power" whatever that means. You seem to be inexperienced with Linux and projecting your Windows comfort on other people.

10The command line
i constantly read posts where newbie linux users come with problems or queries and are guided towards their solution with a command they need to run from the terminal, despite the fact that in many cases there is a GUI alternative or even an actual GUI program.

You want to know why? On Linux, we have choices of GUI's. I use xmonad. Others use GNOME or KDE or Xfce or many others. Also, a command is explicit and universal and easy to put up on a forum. Point and click advice is slower, harder to communicate, and requires either a GUI memorized (harder to memorize than commands) or the same GUI.

Also, in the terminal, one can copy and paste the commands, their output and any errors.

often i see people demanding code to do things even my mother can do in the windows control panel.

Can your mother: install four different applications, update the entire system, and reboot from the command line in one command? Or does she have to sit there the entire time to do the point and click routine. Oh, I forgot. Windows doesn't have anything like repositories...

More experienced users often say the command line is great, its faster, its safer than rooting around, its easier to give help, etc etc, bull , in suse linux i could give anyone the the solution to pretty much any of the common problems suse has just by saying one word "YaST/2", now why would suse developers, waste time developing that if the command line was better? serously have you seen what YaST can do , im impressed.

Do you know what YaST stands for? On this forum, you'll see the most shocking definitions for it. Why? Because it is slower and less efficient than easily learned methods.

cron is a nightmare compared to scheduled tasks for the average user.

You seem to have a lot of assumptions.

if a user wanted to make firefox open up when they booted into windows, just drag the icon into startup, i never attempted this on xubuntu for fear of the having to edit system files from the terminal.

Also, any virus or malware can exploit this with ease. Way to go security! (And there is a way to do it in Linux easily, at least, in GNOME.)

12NON- free
if you buy a computer with windows pre-loaded or you go out and buy windows, you are allowed to use everything on it.

When you buy a computer with Ubuntu pre-loaded, you can use everything on it. Including DVD and multimedia codecs (Dell, for example, provides ones they bought). Windows doesn't come with such things either and doesn't support the most basic free formats.

Ignorance and FUD. Windows breaks many laws by existing, but you don't see Windows users sweating over it.

[quote]
14....consistency
I can install programs than work on win95/98/2000/NT/ME/XP and even vista at times. More that a decades woth of operating systems and you can still get programs that run on all of them , opera (http://www.opera.com/support/search/view/386/) is a good example.
however in linux i cant install the same stuff on the same operating system. Case in point the *buntu family of OS's all have different text editors (so even giving *beautiful* commands to a newbie to run can be tricky) they all default to different program sets, they all use different libraries etc etc, lets not even talk about taking a program compiled to run on another distro and telling a noob to run it on {insert distro here}.

Which is why open source is so good. In Windows, they keep backward compatibility at the expense of the user.

15 Latest stuff
if something new comes out, whether if its or web-based, desktop-based, or if its some sort of hardware(psp?). It will always work on windows and whenever that new something comes out there will always be thousands of people all over the internet telling you how to make it work for you too.

That has nothing to do with Windows and isn't true.

linux cannot say the same, new hardware is not supported by linux, new web interactive stuff is not supported by linux, even google who are pro linux still haven't managed to port all of their apps to run 100% in linux (see reason 14).

Linux has support for things Windows is just starting to support. PNG's for example.

16 Ported applications
mac ports a lot of its stuff to windows, anything a lot of people use that apple has made will have a windows version.windows also ports a lot of things back to mac as well. anything of any use on linux also has a windows version (http://windows.kde.org/)microsoft are yet to port any version of any of their software to linux.

That is because they are open source.

there are other stuff but i would like to stop there for now.
DISCLAIMER:
i do not hate linux, im not pro-microsoft and anti linux im JUST a computer user i dont belong to either religion, i felt to properly answer this thread due to the fact that people here are side stepping these issues that need to be spoken about. If i stated any incorrect facts please point them out, but do not ignore me or shoot me down as a Microsoft worshipper:mad:.

All of your posts are like this. You speak as if you know equally about both systems, but do not. You admitted to fearing Linux. You make assumptions.

Instead of flaunting your ignorance and biases, I suggest either learning Linux (if you want to) or ignoring it instead of posting such things. You don't see me going to Vista forums to post actual reasons it is bad.

god0fgod

September 8th, 2008, 06:43 PM

Gaming is not a problem. Gnometris is all you need! :lol:

But seriously, buy a console.

LaRoza

September 8th, 2008, 06:46 PM

Gaming is not a problem. Gnometris is all you need! :lol:

+1 and World War vi http://wordwarvi.sourceforge.net/

But seriously, buy a console.
That is for what they are made, to play games.

fiddledd

September 8th, 2008, 07:31 PM

Anything I say in this post is about the Desktop, not servers or embedded devices.

I'm going to try to answer the question posed by the OP honestly. Firstly though I'd better say I use Windows every day. I also use Linux, but only most days. There are only a couple of things left that, for me, need to change until I can use Linux all the time.

If you check my post history you'll see I'm a long way from a Linux fanboy. I don't bash either Linux or MS, but I do try to respond to posts that do just that. I think you can use any OS, without the need to put down another.

So what, IMHO, can Windows do that Linux can't? Actually nothing I can think of.

Windows doesn't support more hardware, more hardware manufacturers support Windows.

Windows doesn't support more games, more games companies support Windows.

Windows doesn't have more professional software, more professional software is written for Windows. I'm thinking of Video Editing/Encoding, CAD.

And I could continue, but you can make your own list.:)

When you consider what support Linux actually has, it's amazing what it can do. If Linux continues to evolve I'm certain that the support from hardware manufacturers etc will happen.

Did you notice what I did there, there wasn't one anti Linux or anti Windows comment, it's possible if you try.:)

linsux

September 8th, 2008, 07:45 PM

Achetar

September 8th, 2008, 08:07 PM

Oooh! Oooh! I know! Oh wait, nvm. Oh yeah! No, not that either... Maybe... no. Ah, not that either. Hmmm, BSOD? (in linux it is a BKP, Black Kernel Panic). Oh and, shoot, that isn't one either. To quote Pitr, "Am thinkink"

fiddledd

September 8th, 2008, 08:30 PM

Hm. What you're saying is pretty much correct, but don't you contradict yourself when you say "There isn't more X for windows, more X makes X for Windows"

Wouldn't that mean, technically that there is in-fact more X for Windows than Linux, you know, because since more companies make more X for X for X for Windows.

Well, sort of. What I was trying to say was none of this is actually Windows doing it, its others doing it for Windows. Whereas Linux has to pretty much do it all itself.

Does that make more sense?

linsux

September 8th, 2008, 09:00 PM

Well, sort of. What I was trying to say was none of this is actually Windows doing it, its others doing it for Windows. Whereas Linux has to pretty much do it all itself.

Does that make more sense?

Kind of like how I get free pie at AA for just showing up? :)

georgegerm

September 9th, 2008, 05:20 AM

---I don't think gaming is that important to most people, only the very loud and the early adopters. once we're past this phase you'll find most new users don't play games or find the games available in Linux to be superior in the types of games they play (puzzle games etc)[/QUOTE]---

that is a great understatement,, i do use linux for all my work ,, but games i will always play i am an old man and still rock with call of duty 4 and started back then with the old c&c games, not to mention those oldies ping pong games from atari i believe..
you may not like my statement but indeed games is an issue to keep a windows partition..
wine does help, here by the way but lets face it the games run at best under windows period...
that say i will stay with my linux ubu laptop till i break it... and run my ubu partition at home when i need some work done
but to assume people tire of games ie. the top of the line ones when changing to ubu is an understatement and a linux issue better said a greedy windows, mac issue
all that said do not underestimate gamers,,,,
and praise ubu and pass its ammunition
:guitar:viva linux
ps. to me i do not think i will stop playing top games ... and i think that goes for a lot of people out there

karl1328

October 10th, 2008, 12:02 AM

Windows can cater to the idiot web programmer's who write IE only code for work-related web sites.

Daerik

October 10th, 2008, 05:28 PM

Prefix100

October 14th, 2008, 02:17 PM

Windows can do everything Linux can, just maybe not as efficiently or the same way, but windows can also do Games and video composition.

aysiu

October 14th, 2008, 04:29 PM

Windows can do everything Linux can Can you show me how one command pasted into the MS-DOS prompt can install all my favorite applications?

Prefix100

October 14th, 2008, 04:31 PM

Can you show me how one command pasted into the MS-DOS prompt can install all my favorite applications?

If you read a little after that I said 'maybe not as efficiently or in a different way', so yes, I can install my favourite applications in windows, just not as efficiently.

aysiu

October 14th, 2008, 04:41 PM

If you read a little after that I said 'maybe not as efficiently or in a different way', so yes, I can install my favourite applications in windows, just not as efficiently.
That's like saying a pen and piece of paper can do the same things an Excel spreadsheet can do but not as efficiently or in a different way. Yes, you can eventually do calculations and charts on a piece of paper with a pen, but implying they offer the same functionality and there is no advantage to the electronic spreadsheet is extremely misleading.

I would argue the same point about installing applications. I like having centralized repositories updated every six months that I can browse and easily install programs from. I do not like having to scour the internet for programs, downloading and individually installing and upgrading them.

If in talking about efficiency, it's a matter of a few extra seconds, that's one thing and may not constitute an actual difference in capability, but if you're talking a half hour or hours, then it's a completely different ballgame.

To install all the applications I want in Windows takes hours. I'm not kidding. And I can't even just click something, walk away and come back hours later to see it done. I have to be there the whole time walking Windows through every program step by step.

A huge advantage of computers is their ability to automate and accelerate tasks that would take too long for humans to do. If the computer also takes a long time, then they have lost functionality, because a main function of the computer is efficiency.

If you have a batch-rename program, and I'm renaming files one-by-one, we do not have the same functionality, even though we are able to accomplish the same task.

Frenske

October 14th, 2008, 05:07 PM

No they don't. unless your definition of 'most people' is 'most white, male, under 25 and over 13s' which mine isn't and most PEOPLE I know of all kinds like to play puzzle, platform, logic, and various other games and don't like to play either racing or shoot 'em ups.

Woohoo ... with my 34 years I am still acting as a under 25 white male. If I am really really old (a bit of sarcasm for those we don't get it) I will do maybe some puzzles, but probably a sudoku in the news paper with a nice glass of Ardberg.

The point I am making is there there are a lot more people playing games than you think. I love strategic games such as Company of Heroes and Starcraft (can't wait till the new gets out). Unfortunately I have to play them on my other OS which I will not name.

S0VERE1GN

October 14th, 2008, 05:34 PM

Crash daily. :]

aysiu

October 14th, 2008, 05:39 PM

The point I am making is there there are a lot more people playing games than you think. If we're talking first-person shooters on the PC as opposed to puzzle games on the PC or any games on consoles, I'd really like to see some statistics to back up your assertion.

Also, read this:
http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/gaining-perspective-on-pc-gaming/

emshains

October 14th, 2008, 08:41 PM

Windows pretty much does away with the command line interface (I'll let you decide if that's a pro or a con). For the non-computer savvy folks the command line, and having to manually edit configuration files can be intimidating.

As an occasional hardcore gamer (in-between collage semesters) it is a must for me to have a Windows system for gaming. Well, gaming and visual studio for school. I wish I didn't though because I so much prefer Linux. I run Sidux on my main PC, with a DB Vista drive, and on two laptops I run Ubuntu exclusively.

It would be a serious error to under estimate the size and impact of the gaming community. It would be the same fallacy of M$ assuming that the open source community is too small to be bothered with. Once you begin to get involved in it, you begin to see it's really quite significant.

And as far as demographics go, there was a recent study that showed that the average MMORPG gamer is in fact middle aged women, comprising of something like 40 percent of the player base. Folks are having to recheck their assumptions about their customer base as things are changing.

Well, if you won't take action, there will always be an OS called Windows.
By taking action, I mean asking the devs, each and every one of them, to port their games to linux, spend as little money as you can on windows games, and try to satisfy you're gaming needs with wine, or even Cedega (if you feel the difference).
Because if you won't, there will never be major games running on linux (natively), and is this what you want ? I got my needs sorted out (kind of), I'm still looking for a good driving game, but FPS's and MMO-RPG's are pretty much sorted, just because of Wine.

Oh and a tip about writing emails to the devs (about the gaming), don't beg them to make a version for linux, just say you can't find the version for linux (act surprised), or at least be surprised about that you found out that they aren't making any soft for linux, or be like:" I would love to buy you're product, but there is one thing. It doesn't run on linux".

Windows doesn't do multiple desktops, which is a perfect way to speed up you're job, when you are running multiple windows. Windows doesn't boot up faster than the iPhone, Windows actually has a price (!), Windows runs games (linux does too, well, sort of), Windows is made by a company with the only goal of world domination, Windows catches viruses, Windows has implemented the whole package into two processes (which makes it highly unstable), with windows you must have installed 5 packages on the server release to be able to do everything you could from a normal linux (even basic) linux distribution from a command line, Windows can screw you're day, Windows can ,hmmmmmmmm, support ATi and SiS graphics (as far as I know).

Prefix100

October 14th, 2008, 10:25 PM

That's like saying a pen and piece of paper can do the same things an Excel spreadsheet can do but not as efficiently or in a different way. Yes, you can eventually do calculations and charts on a piece of paper with a pen, but implying they offer the same functionality and there is no advantage to the electronic spreadsheet is extremely misleading.

I would argue the same point about installing applications. I like having centralized repositories updated every six months that I can browse and easily install programs from. I do not like having to scour the internet for programs, downloading and individually installing and upgrading them.

If in talking about efficiency, it's a matter of a few extra seconds, that's one thing and may not constitute an actual difference in capability, but if you're talking a half hour or hours, then it's a completely different ballgame.

To install all the applications I want in Windows takes hours. I'm not kidding. And I can't even just click something, walk away and come back hours later to see it done. I have to be there the whole time walking Windows through every program step by step.

A huge advantage of computers is their ability to automate and accelerate tasks that would take too long for humans to do. If the computer also takes a long time, then they have lost functionality, because a main function of the computer is efficiency.

If you have a batch-rename program, and I'm renaming files one-by-one, we do not have the same functionality, even though we are able to accomplish the same task.

Touche.

aysiu

October 14th, 2008, 11:08 PM

Touche.
It does go both ways, though, of course. All the software I need in Ubuntu is available in the repositories. If, however, you need to compile a lot of stuff from source, you lose a lot of the relative efficiency you could get in Windows through a double-click, next, next, next, finish scenario. Not everything is more efficient in any one OS over another.

master5o1

October 15th, 2008, 12:11 AM

Major bug in Ubuntu:

I seem to be unable to enter my license key to activate and prove the genuinity of my Ubuntu Linux installation to Canonical. It seems that there is no tool availible or that the tool doesn't automatically present itself when I try to install, or after 30 days of use after installation. Can someone please fix this serious bug?

Note: I use magenta to indicate sarcasm.

cardinals_fan

October 15th, 2008, 04:30 AM

If we're talking first-person shooters on the PC as opposed to puzzle games on the PC or any games on consoles, I'd really like to see some statistics to back up your assertion.

Also, read this:
http://www.psychocats.net/ubuntucat/gaining-perspective-on-pc-gaming/
I have a funny story that fits in with this. One of my friends is a pretty hard-core gamer - the sort who buys the new Halo or GTA on the first day it's released and stays up until they finish it. So, when I walk up to his locker and hear him talking to someone else about high-scores, I immediately assumed that it was for some graphics-heavy shooter. Then, to my shock, I discovered that he was actually talking about the Bejeweled 2, the little gem-switching puzzle!

Frenske

October 15th, 2008, 12:24 PM

Windows has a surplus of photo managing software packages. And no, F-Spot is not viliable alternative nor Kdigicam whatever the name. blueMarine is trying but it is a one man job and progress is painstakingly slow.

Nick Lake

October 15th, 2008, 02:02 PM

Can do in Windows but not in Linux: Generally not much difference. There are definitely things I can do BETTER or with more flexibility in Linux (bashing together commands on the CLI to automate things that would take me ages using a GUI driven interface). Both OS have casual and / or niche things that one does better than the other - I'll list 'em:

GIS:
I'm a big GIS (Geographical Information System) user. Most enterprise level GIS these days are Windows based (for the end user). I love the power of GRASS on Linux and ArcInfo workstation on Solaris. It seriously kills anything on Windows for sheer processing power!

For the casual or non-expert user however Windows-based GIS is definitely the go. The software stack for Windows-based GIS is very mature and is stuffed full of functionality that just doesn't exist in Linux equivalents (ArcGIS Desktop vs. Quantum GIS for example).

I think this is a little strange as the GIS we know today traditionally grew from a UNIX-loving community.

Image Manipulation / Processing:
I'm not talking about the type of raster processing that is done in the remote sensing fields - this can be done better on a Linux box (I believe). Nor am I talking about the usual photo adjustments and tweaking that goes on in Photoshop - again I believe that the GIMP is just as good.

My GF uses a pen-based digitiser (digital air-brush) for some graphic work and although I'm sure that this can be done on Linux I've yet to find an easy way to get our CalComp and Waacom digitisers to work properly - Someone prove me wrong!!!!!

Programming & IDEs:
I don't accept the fact that some people claim that they can do with Visual Studio what can't be achieved on Linux. Yes it is definitely a very cool and slick IDE. But really - its just an IDE! Its the use of the programming language and compiler that counts! I use KDevelop for C/C++, Eclipse for Java and mono for C# support - and they work beyond my expectations. On Windows I use Visual Studio exclusively.

HPC:
Perhaps the biggest failing of Windows over Linux is HPC (high performance and parallel computing). I know that that MPI is supported on Windows via MPICH and I know that cluster management is available also (although only really for high availability and fail-over computing) - but seriously if you want to build a super computing cluster - the ONLY real option is *nix.

- Over