Gubuntu - An Ubuntu for Gamers

[inigmatus]

I was curious if anyone has considered engaging in a serious attempt at making a Ubuntu distro tailored specifically for gamers? What do you think should be included in such a distro?

[compiledkernel]

The UGA and UGL members had considered at one point building what we were calling GWubuntu at the time.

A gamers ready distro of ubuntu.

Do you feel there is renewed interest in this?

[inigmatus]

I would wonder what should be included in such a distro. I think a serious discussion on the topic could be held to determine what software would be pre-installed and configured.

Wine or VMWare? or Both?

A Gubuntu Help documenation covering current and future install guides?

Preloaded game packages and symlinks?

Preloaded opensource 3d drivers?

Install scripts for the most popular games?

A smart configuration script for graphics and sound?

[compiledkernel]

1. Wine vs Vmware. Vmware is commercial. It would be hard to include it in a distro. Wine most certainly. A wine gui like wine-doors or winexs are also aggreeable.

2. Such guides could be derived from here, and from the UGA project.

3. Preloaded games....Not so much. 2 standard games from each game type maybe.

4. Install scripts.....not sure.

5. Graphics and sound card scripts....eh.....also really. Apt-get moo. Unless it happens at installation.

[inigmatus]

A homepage and pre-loaded bookmarks to popular linux game review sites.

[compiledkernel]

http://gaming.gwos.org

relatively exists already.

[onegreenparker]

After spending much of my work day scouring the net for Linux games, I'd have to say that there is a demand for 'Gubuntu'.

[compiledkernel]

I will entertain development of such a project again, for as long as I can get support for doing it.

Those interested?

Those against?

[MilosDusan]

I'm all for.. I think it would be a fantastic idea, and eventually a helpful 'port' for those gamers fed up with Windows...

[Pop_A_Squat]

This would be a GREAT idea. The only problem i have is with wine, for FPS games wine is not the greatest way to play. Is there any other alternative to wine that doesn't require paying a subscription that will work for FPS games.

[Kalifornia909]

i just started gaming in linux and i love it. a distro would be great

[skirkpatrick]

Since I just read somewhere else that VMWare Server is in the Feisty repos, the only REAL issue with using VMWare is that it is only good for games that don't need 3D acceleration.

As far as WINE goes, I get better FPS rates in CoD and WoW than I do under Windows on my machine.

[hikaricore]

I still support the idea of a gaming distro however I don't believe that a focal point for it should be wine or any of the vm software titles.

It should definately be more based on native / open source games.

I can just see the BS pouring in now:

"*buntu is a horrible gaming platform! [insert heavy d3d windows game here] won't even run! %$&@ this I'm going back."

This is the way it's been in the forums for wine/VMs.
I'd expect a large misinformed userbase to react the same way.

[inigmatus]

The Gubuntu team could focus on providing pre-compiled or packaged games for Ubuntu users, and then provide up-to-date "support" for popular non native games.

[BLTicklemonster]

http://ubuntusoftware.info/ubuntu_ultimate_gamers/

Ultimate Ubuntu Gamers edition

[j.miller565]

i'm all for it

[inigmatus]

http://ubuntusoftware.info/ubuntu_ultimate_gamers/

Ultimate Ubuntu Gamers edition

Seems a little bloated. Would the developer be interested in making it a general Ubuntu gaming community project?

[compiledkernel]

After having done quite a bit of research what do you guys think about an openbox default UI?

[hikaricore]

I'm still at a tossup between openbox and fluxbox myself.
But either are light enough for the job.

[j.miller565]

I think Openbox would be great!!

[compiledkernel]

A tweaked openbox install would be very newbie friendly in my opinion. It could appear almost Gnome-ish to someone whos never touched it.

[Sycrat]

Sounds absolutely AWESOME guys, I think it would pick up so many windows users that really can't be bothered with all the Microsoft **** anymore... Thanks guys, this is going to be absolutely sick, I'll stay informed and help out in any way possible (not very good code-wise but will be able to help with choices/spreading the idea) :)

[tretle]

To begin with id like to state that my former handle was cryptonic. Iv brought up ideas of the games browser before unable to contribute anything because of time issues with exams etc. I have a minimal knowledge of c programming and will be starting software development in collage next year. I hope to eventually code this browser. I do honestly believe there is a great need for it and i also believe the linux gaming community seems to be in a mess at the moment with wine and cedega. The game browser if i get my way will be for native games only. I plan to do start work on it this summer but no promises.



So there are two things you could do, concentrate your efforts on creating a game browser. The game browser would have elements of features like the ones seen in GFSGL and JGameLaunch. The feature in GFSGL which comes to mind is the automatic detection and installation of commercially bought games like quake by simply inserting the disc etc. I think that it would be wise to concentrate such an applictation on native games and not on wine or emulated games.

JgameLaunch features:

* Allows for games to be run through a simple interface.
* Add / Edit feature with genre list.
* Records number of plays and last play date.
* Random Game feature where the launcher will launch a random game.
* Can be setup to run a game server in the background.

Right so Ubuntu gamers arena currently has a live servers list. this is a great approach in which the site has taken ans i believe it can be taken further in the future. The site can act as a tracker if you will. You host a particular game and the browser will tell the site your hosting a game. when someone joins a game though the browser the site will be notified.skip to the result : when you log into the browser and you add your friends to a friend list you will be able to see what game they are playing and join them at the click of a button. Consoles have it pinned, its an evolution of ideas you could say your robing the gamertag concept but in reality that was robed from gamespy and so on and so on. Its a great idea one user name across a multitude of games for a sense of community and connectivity. So i discussed a browser like this before having cover art instead of the icon in the browser that is. I was then faced with this question, what if the game is not a commercial one and does not have cover art. Ubuntu gamers arena seems to include lovely artwork on each game that appears in the news section which could be used, its wide size would make it ideal for listing the games in a tree form. If user submitted ratings are added to the Ubuntu gamers arena site then you could rate a game after you have played it at least once out of 5 stars and your rating is cross referenced off of other users rating of that game and an average is then shown as the rating for the game on the site.

Thats enough taking about that method for the moment onto method 2.
Method one is great because its a browser, it can be added to ubuntu with ease and its sole purpose is to refine the gaming ui experience for the desktop user. who knows this method if ever created could make it into ubuntu as standard. if your talking about making an os based on ubuntu which is dedicated to gaming therefore naming it gubuntu why not try something drastic. You could take UI down the same direction as consoles such as the ps3, wii and xbox360. For example taking elisa and modifying the ui to include features from the game browser. Mold the gubuntu ui around multimedia and gaming.

[fakie_flip]

The UGA and UGL members had considered at one point building what we were calling GWubuntu at the time.

A gamers ready distro of ubuntu.

Do you feel there is renewed interest in this?

There should be a way to convert a normal Ubuntu box into a gaming one.

sudo apt-get install gwubuntu-desktop

[misconfiguration]

There should be a way to convert a normal Ubuntu box into a gaming one.

sudo apt-get install gwubuntu-desktop

I concur!

[hikaricore]

There should be a way to convert a normal Ubuntu box into a gaming one.

sudo apt-get install gwubuntu-desktop

I don't wanna bring you down but I can almost guarantee it will NEVER be this easy from the main repos (nor universe/multiverse). Anything we manage to cook up MAY possibly be offered in an unsupported apt repository, but our best bet is probably to make it a dvd install end of story.

[j.miller565]

is it possible to have games like savage, tremulous, et, etc in it. that would be so wicked

[Artificial Intelligence]

Depends on license etc. if such games can be on it. If we are talking such games it require DVD instead of CD.

[Nehvrook]

I've only just started using Ubuntu (And Linux at all), I've spent the last few days getting the desktop and media stuff working how I want it, and now I'm gonna start trying to get some games working through wine. I think this is a really good idea, and proving that there are people interested in gaming on Linux will maybe one day prove to developers that there is a market for them on Linux too!
I'm in full support of this idea

[stevejbayer]

AFAIK its not illegal to include demos of games. Say throw in demos of Quake 4 and the like. It may be legal to put in Enemy Territory. Would be great if an install system that used torrents of OSS or Free Software could be included that way there may not be a need for repositories. Most gamers wouldn't mine paying for proprietory games as long as they run on linux but I don't think it would be GNU friendly.

[j.miller565]

so when do you think this thing could start?

[psyopper]

Hi all,

I'm new to Linux, Feisty is my first install. I set it up to dual boot with XP and I haven't booted back to XP in over a week (since I moved my Thunderbird profile to a FAT32 partition and mounted it in Ubuntu). I'm an "old hat" Windows user, I used to be a tech support rep for Microsoft back in the Win95/IE3 days...

I'll be happy if I never go back.

There is still some maturity to be had in Ubuntu/Linux to convert Windows users, and gaming is definitely high on the list. A "Gubuntu" release would be a spectacular start in this direction. However...

With M Dell's Ubuntu proclamation last week there comes some danger. Users, especially *new* users are going to expect fit and finish. Gubuntu better be up to the task because if it isn't it will only hurt the process. A live DVD will be necessary because it will need to include demos of some of the games. New users will NOT just pop in a live CD and be willing to do the aggravating web search for games and spend hours downloading, installing and tweaking.

This brings us to the next point - ATI and NVidia cards MUST be supported out of the box. This includes detection and warnings for things like that guy who has the best 4800 (and probably the ONLY 4800 still in existence) on the planet but it still doesn't do per pixel shading. When a card like this is detected a "warning" should pop up letting them know to expect decreased performance of their games.

The release should definitely include Compiz and/or Beryl and be activated automagically on the live DVD. Gamers are going to expect high end graphics (Aero +++) in their UI on their $300 video card. NV SLI definitely needs to be supported and fully functional in the release as well, for the same reasons.

Other things that gamers may be expecting:

DVR Functionality
HD DVD/ BlueRay /HDTV support
All of the Ubuntu restricted codecs
Super sleek interface (again, Aero +++) - even sexier than Mubuntu

An idea that crossed my mind, specifically about open source gaming: Since Q3A engine is now open source I envision a gaming manager with the Q3A engine preloaded. Think WINE for Q3A based games where the manager is where the user fine tunes his system for graphics and sound. Then whenever an original game CD for a Q3A engined game (Q3A, RtCW, etc) is inserted the manager installs the game and it is run through it.

I, of course, have absolutely no programming skills, but I'm a heck of a program manager and idea guy. I know a bit about Photoshop and I'm now dabbling/learning Gimp and Inkscape and could help with the gui...

[hikaricore]

--blank post for the greater good--

[handy]

@ psyopper Not quite all that should be good to go in a few years time...

[gillespie]

Im with tretle on the console style gui, that would be a cool way to go imho, and would attract gamers that cant be bothered with a traditional ui. Lots of programming though..... i could help out if you want, ive toyed around with c(++). I think it should slot in where the DM goes, ie in place of gdm, and be the first thing the user sees. Services should be stripped down to give super fast boot-up times, just load the essentials. All installed games should be accessible through a fullscreen menu, and other things (i.e. setup, multimedia) should be accessible perhaps in an x360 style. Loading games direct from a disc like consoles would be cool too, but preinstalled games are a must, and easy installs of native and non-native games via wine (or cedega cvs?). And binary drivers for definate!

I'd love to help with this project, is there a project manager i can pm?

[tretle]

as of this moment it is merely a in the conceptual stage. Theres no project manager :( The idea of the game browser is something iv been toying around with for a few years. My situation was the only thing prohibiting me but mid to late summer I will begin. My coding skills in c are limited and i have no previous knowledge in programming for linux. Don't be expecting fast results but i am very excited to start work on this :D

I dont think that you necisarilly need to create a distribution dedicated to gamimng. some people might like it but what are the gains in reality. I was also toying around with the idea of launching games directly from the disk by means of a live cd but what are the gains in doing this, torrents and ftp downloads would be halted. I am not saying there would be no gains im just saying that by means of a game browser you have the best of both worlds, people who want to just install it on there systems and get all the features will be able to do so, while having stuff like there downloads running in the background. running from the disc is a nice idea, maybe I have the wrong perspective here maybe you could create the iso's so that you can play from the pc booting up through a customized live cd dedicated to running that game and that game only while saving stats and save games to the partition of the detected hardrive which contains ubuntu or gubuntu, having the same disc have the functionality of running from the disc instead of having to install the game from within ubuntu might be nice too. Its something i didn't think about in great detail until i saw your post, i was thinking of the browsers features and integration with uga more. I think rethinking the way games work in ubuntu by means of the live game disc is a great advantage over windows and would be very persuasive for game developers to support ubuntu more :) what i think would be super sweet is if canonical bought out three game developers :P I can still dream :D lol

[gillespie]

I think we need to aim at the hardcore performance freaks. If we totally strip down ubuntu, and just boot up to a game browser gui, no DE as such, and no login screen, we will get v good performance. People have reported higher framerates for games under linux than windows, even under wine, so with all the bulk stripped off we should get performance through the roof. This is why i favour the full distro idea, if we show non linux users that they can get a performance boost, people will start to take notice. They can just reboot from windows to play their games, and ones that arent compatible they can still play in windows. we cant get an instant conversion to linux for these people.

I dont know how successfull the run from disk idea would be, it would save HD space. but also maybe ps1 discs through an emulator? And why would torrent/ftp downloads be halted? i dont mean boot from the disc i just mean run it when it is inserted, downloads could continue in the background, as they are not cpu intensive.

As for saving games/stats, usb flash drives are popular, or maybe an internet server for stat tracking?

[tretle]

I don't know if i agree with your idea that removing everything from ubuntu bar the essentials for gaming would make much of a performance difference. I dontn have much information on how linux systems work but I do know that when a game is launched unnecessary tasks are put into suspend. Its the linux alternative to Microsoft's DirectX . DirectX basically kills all unnecessary tasks hence the original name of direct3d emphasis on "Direct". Linux has a different way of handling things. I like the linux suspension method as you say yourself in some cases it outperforms DirectX. Im in now way saying that gubuntu is a bad idea. Im just saying that instead of concentrating efforts on a single iteration it might be wise to think of it in a broader sense. You can focus on all gamers with relative ease through writing the game browser to be just that a browser which can be easilly installed on ubuntu.This would integrate with uga. its an advanced server browser , central location for your games. I like the idea of having one handle accross all of your games so that you can be tracked from uga, highscores and tracable server breadcrums. I think it would be great for the developers as you could have a donate icon on the game info so that its easy for people to donate to the developers if they like the games.
If this is created than making gubuntu itself would be half the work. I agree that it should be a 360 scratch that xbmc like interface so that people could use it as their media center along with games center. Now rather than reinventing the wheel we could integrate the features in the game browser with the elisa. Elisa should be gui for the gubuntu system. I know that the gui of elisa right now isn't very refined as in it takes two many clicks to get your way around but their working on it. What I was saying about the iso idea was that all the ubuntu user has to do is insert the disk and start playing directly from the disc. if they insert while in gubuntu then it should work just as it should from the hardrive allowing torrents to keep running in the background and suspending unneeded processes. This should be the same for gubuntu. Now the iso should also have a striped down live distribution of ubuntu, by striped down i mean just what is needed to launch the game on reboot as you would a linux distribution live cd. This would be incremental in showing windows and macosx users that there are good games for linux. I think you should make it so that the game can detect linux filesystems on hardrives in the pc and save the game to the save directory on said partition but not allow other filesystem detection so if people like the games their playing and want to be able to save games they better run linux :D lol Some people might think thats a bit too evil or drastic but i don't think we should be the ones that have to do lots of work to get games running fully. It could be considered a taster, incentive or to use linux.

[calgarystevens]

Also instead of an entirely new distro per se maybe smaller projects to enhance existing Ubuntu would be a way to go. Finding Linux games....absolutely is a hit and miss thing...and some are confusing or even hard to install. Maybe a game browser/installer would be helpful, where you can browse for games by type/name/system reqs etc. And then a one click install would be great as well, especially something that would install wine repo, then wine, then set winecfg and pop up a short tutorial to install your first game maybe with some links to more help. Or even maybe something that would retrieve, compile and install cedega cvs version. Hmmm. As for interface, what about some wicked themes (which could be added to the browser I suppose too), maybe a Ubuntu FPS theme, or MMORPG theme etc etc. Maybe combine all features into a gubuntu-desktop which would install a browser, several themes, and maybe other features that are conceived. Just some ideas after reading this thread.

[gillespie]

Hmmmm i see where your coming from, i just think that a specially designed distro that boots straight into this dashboard, no DM, no DE, none of the crap that gamers dont want, such as oo.org, gimp etc..., (maybe an inbuilt web broswer just for viewing uga website,) will attract gamers with the wow factor. If we build the manager a a desktop environment, that has an uber lightweight display manager that goes straight into it without login, it can easily be installed by users of normal ubuntu, kubuntu or watever.

I dont know about linux stopping all other tasks while in opengl mode (i can still switch vt's and run tasks) but even if not, boot up times will be quicker, and thats a big difference between gaming on a console and gaming on a pc, the boots times.

I had a look at elisa, it looks pretty sleek, could easily be tweaked for games, but i would rather go for keyboard/joypad control than mouse, seems more ergonomic to zip around a menu with a joypad than with a mouse. Im not saying mouse support should be removed, im just saying other methods should be favoured.

Tretle, yes thats my vision for the disc loading lol, i dont know how cooperative game project managers would be though....

As for game installation, yes there should be a one click install method for as many open source games as we can, and commercial demos or freeware. However, i think a large emphasis should be put on easy installation of commercial games, with disc detection, automatic per game wine configuration, and an error message if the game is not supported. Open source games are good, but people want to play what they see on the TV. Cedega cvs sounds like a good idea, i dont know the legalities though....

And yes themes definately!!

[Enverex]

Sorry but I just have to say it, WHY do you need ANOTHER "variation" of Ubuntu to do this? It's getting completely out of control. I swear there are more "versions" of Ubuntu now than there are actual distributions of Linux and 90% of them are unnecessary.

Wine most certainly. A wine gui like wine-doors or winexs are also aggreeable.

Please make a big note for people when they use it NOT to file bugs for Wine or submit testing data to the AppDB when using a GUI or other form of modification.

This would be a GREAT idea. The only problem i have is with wine, for FPS games wine is not the greatest way to play. Is there any other alternative to wine that doesn't require paying a subscription that will work for FPS games.

Erm, what is wrong with FPS' in Wine? If the AppDB rates it as Gold or Platinum then it should be virtually perfect.

After having done quite a bit of research what do you guys think about an openbox default UI?

If these people need a version of Ubuntu specifically for games because they can't install the one or two things that would make it different from Ubuntu normally then you'd need to use Gnome or KDE as they'd struggle to use anything else because it would be too different from Windows.

[gillespie]

Its aiming at a different target audience. Most gamers dont want the bulk of another os, but do like performance benifits. If we create an installable live cd, they can boot straight into a flashy custom game-console style gui, play some cool games at better fps than windows, and see the benifits. They might then consider an install. Sure it should be installable in normal ubuntu, but gamers should be able to have it without the rest of the stuff that they are not interested in. Im sure this is more relative to more people than some other versions ive seen...

Its all about getting ut2k4 loaded as fast as they can after a hard day at school/work lol, and playing it without lag.

[tretle]

wine and Cedega should not even be considered for inclusion. I thought the point of the project was to show gamers and developers that Linux is a good platform for gaming. Should be centered towards native Linux games if you ask me. Even commercial ones like ut2004. The idea someone had of putting game demos that can be run through wine is a bad idea. Thats pirate software you cannot redistribute copyrighted software by means of discs even if it is just demo's your distributing. Native games however are better for Gubuntu and the games browser in the long run. Open Source games can be modified and distributed freely as you want. If the project takes off you might see something happening like valve's steam where you would be able to buy commercial games off the net and as for Open Source and freely distributed games, well then it should be simple for the gamer to donate money to the lead developers at the touch of a button. The main thing here is deciding whether wine, cedega and other such tools should be included. If it were up to me id say no as im stongly against such apps and because it would prohibit the freedom of design of the project. I think it should be focussed at native gaming before native gaming fades away for good :(

What enverex said above not all gamers will be swayed by a Gubuntu OS, Some will love it some will hate it. I havn't seen any Linux distribution quite like it and thats what makes it so exciting. People like everex shouldn't be excluded. This is why i proposed designing the browser before the os. Then you have the groundwork done for the OS. This way people like enverex can get all those features while using there ubuntu distribution without having to install a dedicated distribution. This way everyone is happy :D

[Aleck79]

not sure if anyone else suggested this but I think it would be a good idea to package the ATI & NVIDIA drivers into the distro. Durring the setup process, it would either install the appropriate drivers on its own, or ask the user if they would like to install the driver and which to install. This way the user boots un into linux for the first time and doesn't have to figure out what driver to install or try to work out issues with the driver not installing properly.

Since the majority of users who want "gaming" will almost certainly have ATI or NVIDIA graphics cards, this would most certainly be benificial. Liscensing issues however might be another story.

[gillespie]

Im sorry tretle but i disagree. There are some very good native games, but people want to play the games their friends are playing, and they wont want to bother with gubuntu if they can only play a handful of games. I dont know about the legality, but people will be able to get into this via wine, and then discover open source games via the download menu, and then maybe convert a friend to play online with, then more people will get into it. Only supporting native games will narrow the target audience hugely. In an ideal world i would like to stick to natives, but we need a halfway.

It would probably be better to design the gui first yes, much easier to test as well.

And yes binary drivers definately, im not sure about the liscensing, but ubuntu seems to include them easy enough.

[tretle]

Im afraid I'll have to stick with my view. What you want sounds like Ubuntu with Cedega slapped on. Free or not its degrading to Ubuntu. I just really don't like wine and what it stands for, scratch that I respect the developers and its a good quick fix for things but you have to admit if you are a developer and there is an up and coming OS like Linux (what i mean by that is that there has been a surge in the user base over the last few years) and they are running your applications through wine and such developments you are less likely to feel the need to code a native version for said OS.
I don't think this should be a quick fix scenario, I think that you should be looking at the long term implications of your actions here. Take Ubuntu studio, some of the applications weren't up to scratch for the release but the reviews on the net are positive. Everybody knows that the future of ubuntu studio will only bring great things. I think you should show people how great open source games are. How the native games run smoothly on the system. Help these developers open source or closed native have some form of standardization on which to develop upon. A way in which there games can be distributed and supported, Innovative ways to handle an online community among the way we play or games. The groundwork is there we just need to get together and share ideas and get past some flaws in those ideas. For instance being able to play the game off the disc instead of installing is great but how do you stop piracy for commercial games. Some developers may think that because Linux is open source that means their intellectual property is at risk. But back to my main point, why release another cedega. I hope you can see where I am coming from, I do certainly see where you are coming from. People do want to play the games there friends are playing. Why is it that they dont want to play open source games, maybe because there are too many developments concentrating on clones instead of something different. I understand that but how can we really thrive as an OS community if we have nothing to call our own? Iv stressed it beyond breaking pont at this stage. Design, Integration, Features, Community = Better quality of gaming and happy community. How hard would it be for someone to burn off two live cd's so he and his friend could play.

[compiledkernel]

Cedega is proprietary regardless Tretle, Id never consider its inclusion because of its "costly" nature. The use of Wine might be nice (perhaps with a working GUI ala Wine-doors or WineXS), certain that option should exist, but to have preinstalled windows driven games is unsightly.

Honestly gillespie, the view that linux has only a handful of available games is also somewhat stunted. ID publishes installers for most of if not all of its games, as does Epic iwth its Unreal series games (or has in the past). The belief that Wine is a nessecity (or that even more so Cedega is) is to me a joke. I am not going to build a distro just to market Win32 crap. Not going to happen, not on my ship, and not while im captain.

[tretle]

Yipie :D Linux gaming is saved :D :P thanks captain :D Seriously though its sad he had to put it so bluntly but entirely true, stay as far away from windows as possible. If you disagree state why, if its that theres not enough open source and/or native commercial games on Linux then do some researching. If its the quality or lack of innovation or difference between games as in theres not much tekken, soul caliber style games out there for Linux then you would be proving the point that some sort of union should arise to bring Linux gaming together. It would make it easier for people to find games they like and give feedback on them. If your a development team making free games for Linux you are obviously going to respond to what people like, it means you would get more donations to help you keep doing what you love. Actually that reminds me of an idea i had for the ubuntu-gamers-arena site the other day but I should post that idea someplace more suitable.

[gwoodard]

Just wondering, if they do get this out (I hope they do because I hate viruses and all that adware, spyware, etc...) then I could play Halo or CNC The First Decade on Linux and I could just get rid of Windows:)

[tretle]

***Tretle repetitively smacks his head off the wall***

[gillespie]

I see where you are coming from, but i still think we need to include wine. I'm not saying that linux has low quality games, i love ubuntu games, and only play one non-native game (HL2) but take a user like gwoodard here. Wine (according to the appdb) can run halo (http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iVersionId=2720&iTestingId=8605) and CNC FD (http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iAppId=3328) comfortably. He hates viruses. He moves to gubuntu for his gaming, so he doesnt have to run his av scanner etc.. in the background, and get a better game playing experience. When hes playing his games, he browses through the downloadable games list. Sees some cool open source games. Downloads them. Plays and has fun, so he tells his friends, who tell their friends, etc... If we dont support existing windows games that people still want to play, people wont bother installing, and wont discover the array of games that linux has to offer.

We cant throw users in at the deep end, we need a safety net (i.e. wine)

p.s. awesome timing gwoodard!

[gwoodard]

what did my explanation annoy You or something?:lolflag:

[gillespie]

it gave me an ideal case study anyway :D

[compiledkernel]

The intent is to garner interest in the gaming sector from within the actualy community. As long as users believe they can play something other than just good ole GnomeTris, I think we are on the right track.

Users are going to talk about the "I want to play the games I play now" speech. Thats fine. I have no issue providing known working solutions to this problem. I will not provide such ones that are somewhat prop in nature, Cedega being one of them.

My natively running games list accounts for Doom3, Quake4/3 (et all mods), UnrealTourney 2004 (et al mods), TrueCombat Elite, Enemy Territory, Wesnoth, OpenArena, Nexuiz...just to rattle off a few. What about this list is undesirable to gamers Gillespie?

[MetalMusicAddict]

Im sure some of the guys here know my stance. While I think the intrest is there, I really dont think its needed to go so far as to use a srtipped down UI.

I did alot of testing on this and lighter UI's only equal lower memory usage. Typically I found only a savings of 50-60MB using Flux offer full Ubuntu-Gnome. Now, one will will argue that on lower-end systems this is significant I think your hard pressed to find a gamer with less than 256MB of RAM. Also if your running a system that old you most likely have other HW issues that would be bigger bottlenecks. CPU, GFX...

That being said, it can be easy to create art and a striped-down Gnome package as a base.

There should also be a concerted effort to get any new games packaged into Universe. Its a much easier process than most realize. You might have stricter packaging rules though.

[gillespie]

like i said. linux games are not bad, they are in my opinion on a par with windows games, but like i said, we need a way to get people into it. Ok maybe not cedega, but i dont see the problem with wine. It may be a quick fix, but the long fix wont come until we get a majority market share and all of the game companies start to pay attention.

Also, old games, such as gwoodards CNC, for which there is not a mature linux equivalent, and halo, which has about as much chance of getting ported to linux as internet explorer, are still enjoyed by many gamers.

There shouldnt be disadvantages of switching to gubuntu, they shouldnt lose the games that they can play now.

p.s. Metal music addict, the reason i wanted a custom gui was for the bling factor, like the ps3/x360 console style interface, specific for gamers

[tretle]

I think it would be best to agree to disagree. For instance I don't want the ability to play playstation games on an xbox or nintendo games on a playstation. I sure as hell don't want to play windows games on linux and i don't want anything to do with wine on my Ubuntu distribution. Like marks recent statement where he says he wants people to use linux for linux he doesnt want it to be a cheap alternative to windows. I made a comment in the "Is cedega worth it?" thread before this statement referring to cedega to a form of prostitution. This is what i meant by this. If you want to play halo invest in an xbox, hell you have been able to play hal0 2 on the original xbox for quite some time and its only coming out for windows now. and soon halo 3 is out. Like I said before and this is the last time I will say it, What are the priorities for this project. Its that simple. Is it as simple a ui for gamers. If so sure include wine. Do you want to entice developers to code for Linux natively, if so dont include wine or its derivatives. I don't think waiting for a miracle wonder to happen to entice developers will work. Iv heard all that crap before. You need to lay some pillars. The inclusion of wine in a project like this will just slow down our chances of ever seeing gaming on Linux reach a greater level, Developers will be less likely to code something for Linux if most people go around emulating their software. Even in the case of market lead. I'd advise against it, unfortunately I may have misinterpreted the priorities of this project.

[gillespie]

Ok we'll agree to disagree, i dont think you can write wine off, it can be used by game devs to port their software to linux easily, and get people into linux, and that cant be a bad thing.

Anyway, how about we start the manager, and add wine support in later? i think that would be the best course of action. Agreed? Did you get my msn invite?

[tretle]

no didn't get it, using wengophone so that might have something to do with it :D whats your msn id?

[gillespie]

look in your pm's

[tretle]

hmmmmmm..... u on msn now?

[gillespie]

yea

[ShirishAg75]

Hi all,
As this is all at a conceptual stage, lemme add as what nightmares, desires I can come up with in the gaming zone & see what can be done about that.
Any software, whether its gaming or otherwise would need lot of support. Softwares crash for some reason or the other. What do you do in such a case? Then how would you go about importing pre-built packages & their dependencies.
A much better way as outlined by somebody before could be either having a meta-package or a browser which in turn calls games from universe repository and also file bug-reports, crash reports through launchpad. Of course support would be needed to make packages for Ubuntu but will make it overall a better product.
Another thing gamers are a different breed. What we want is not just great 3d graphics but a good story/experience. If a game succeeds in giving me that I remember it. For e.g. I remember a task in the game 'Age of Empires' in which I had to cut lot of trees in order to find a hidden treasure/boat' and it was a sense of achievement when I found out that this is what I need to do. Although there were better games look-wise but it didn't translate into good-gameplay. Also there is a huge difference between a single gamer & multiplayer. Single-player will always outstrip multiplayer volume-wise. There is no dearth of even simple games which could potentially provide good experience. For e.g. http://pyweek.org/ has these small beautiful games. Anybody up for packaging these games & putting them in repostiory either as a stand-alone or as a meta-package which would resolve all dependencies.

Looking forward for comments, suggestions, additions to the above.

[gillespie]

i agree with you shirish. I dont think there is a lack of games, i think the hard part is enticing gamers into the project, weather its with a flashy gui, play from disc, wine support, better fps, it doesnt matter, we just need to create a simple, but nice interface, like they have on consoles, for linux.

Packaging is a hard part of it, with the support issues with it, obviously the ubuntu repos would be the 1st place to look, but downloading direct from the projects website could be possible if it is maintained effectively. I think we need a db of all games available for gubuntu, with screenshots, descriptions, requirements etc... integrated into the manager so that the user can browse by genre/sys reqs/ or whatever, one click and install the game. Then be playing in 10 minutes. This is what people want, quick, easy but good gameplay.

That is why i am still in favour of commercial native/non-native disc detection and installation, or play from disc, i think it would just make the users life easier.

[tretle]

I see your point but as you said yourself gamers are a different breed. The browser and gubuntu are the same thing yet different at the same time. I would assume that Gubuntu will be essentially a striped down ubuntu with a customized Elisa media center as your main ui, customized to take advantage off all the features of the game bowser while keeping the multimedia benefits of Elisa. Much along the lines of the open source project xbmc except a much more evolved gaming environment. This way it will keep both parties happy. I agree with you on the fact that theres more to games than aesthetics but i would not rule out aesthetics. I believe that story and game play does have a more important role than aesthetics but I think that aesthetics should not be ruled out. There is no need to stay in the middle ages when it comes to aesthetics, I love 2d games but i think that there is no need to make games that look 20 years old at the same time. Cel shading was the evolution of 2d games, cell shading looks beautiful in my eyes and much more polished. there are different graphical styles, I think it may be wise for developers to experiment with these styles as it does bring more gamers. Story is crucial if the review system gets set in place on Ubuntu gamers arena I think there should definitely be different areas in which to rate a game on, aesthetics, originality, game play and story. Rating out of five stars for each and then giving an over all rating based on these small ratings. Also toying around with a developer community/ information site if you go to the site suggestions thread, not only should it include help on coding, graphics design, game design, good practice but it should also have small readme's on the importance of originality, game play, story, and aesthetics. This is how a killer Linux game will be created, taking these principals into account.

[gwoodard]

like i said. linux games are not bad, they are in my opinion on a par with windows games, but like i said, we need a way to get people into it. Ok maybe not cedega, but i dont see the problem with wine. It may be a quick fix, but the long fix wont come until we get a majority market share and all of the game companies start to pay attention.

Also, old games, such as gwoodards CNC, for which there is not a mature linux equivalent, and halo, which has about as much chance of getting ported to linux as internet explorer, are still enjoyed by many gamers.

There shouldnt be disadvantages of switching to gubuntu, they shouldnt lose the games that they can play now.

p.s. Metal music addict, the reason i wanted a custom gui was for the bling factor, like the ps3/x360 console style interface, specific for gamers

Hmm.... well ah the first decade goes from original cnc to generals zero hour all one disc so it is not all that old thank you very much!:mad: (made in 2005)

[tretle]

Quote:
Originally Posted by gillespie View Post
like i said. linux games are not bad, they are in my opinion on a par with windows games, but like i said, we need a way to get people into it. Ok maybe not cedega, but i dont see the problem with wine. It may be a quick fix, but the long fix wont come until we get a majority market share and all of the game companies start to pay attention.

Also, old games, such as gwoodards CNC, for which there is not a mature linux equivalent, and halo, which has about as much chance of getting ported to linux as internet explorer, are still enjoyed by many gamers.

There shouldnt be disadvantages of switching to gubuntu, they shouldnt lose the games that they can play now.

p.s. Metal music addict, the reason i wanted a custom gui was for the bling factor, like the ps3/x360 console style interface, specific for gamers
Hmm.... well ah the first decade goes from original cnc to generals zero hour all one disc so it is not all that old thank you very much! (made in 2005)





Lol, does it matter :D chill out :P

[gwoodard]

Sorry about that...

[gillespie]

haha war in the forums! Have you got me on msn yet tretle?

[tretle]

yep

[gwoodard]

What in the world does MSN have to do with this forum

[Enverex]

haha war in the forums! Have you got me on msn yet tretle?

yep

You two need to take this to PMs and stop posting it in a thread as it's just wasting space and confusing people.

Hmm.... well ah the first decade goes from original cnc to generals zero hour all one disc so it is not all that old thank you very much!:mad: (made in 2005)

It's just the old games re-packaged, not remade. Although Generals does run almost perfectly in Wine now.

[tretle]

Sorry to have confused you :D Maybe you should have used the pm service to tell us that as its a bit hypocritical saying that here :D :P

[Enverex]

Sorry to have confused you :D Maybe you should have used the pm service to tell us that as its a bit hypocritical saying that here :D :P

You didn't confuse me and I posted it publicly so that first I wouldn't have to send multiple PMs and second that others would know that someone has said something now so no-one else would have to. Stop trying to be smart.

[tretle]

you take things too seriously, relax :D :P

[hikaricore]

you take things too seriously, relax :D :P

You intentionally push peoples buttons to manipulate the situation causing an outcome that fits your interests.

So you relax. k?

[tretle]

Not necessarily true, when i said : you take life seriously, relax I meant just that "relax", what I said previously should not have been taken seriously and if it was I apologize. I fail to see how I could be manipulating the situation to benefit in some way. What the hell would I get out of that, I was just bored... finito, I recognize what he originally said and I think I will just leave it with this apology so he can in return get what he originally wanted, which was to focus on the topic of the thread.

[Bosambo]

Back to the subject at hand people...

When you guys started discussing this I was intrigued...I envisioned Linux as a platform all it's own (not just playing hacked up Windows titles) that games developers would see as another revenue source.

Picture sitting down at your PC, loading up Ubuntu/Kubuntu etc...as usual login in, doing all the regular grunt work etc...and then logging out and at the login screen selecting Gubuntu as a session and login into the envisioned game dashboard where the installed games will me listed (sort of like a media centre) There would also be an option to download other, smaller, lighter games, but fundamentally I envisioned full featured games written specifically (or eventually properly ported) for Linux installed (or maybe even ran, like Playstation or Xbox) from DVD's effectively turning your PC into a console. Yes the benefits of consoles are the fact the spec is decided by the manufacturers and there are no surprises...Xbox games know they are running on specific hardware and so there’s no problem.

Not being that knowledgeable in this, what would be the potential problems with a system like this...apart from the obvious hardware vendor problems, game developer problems...you know the problems we all have now anyway?

Your ideas are compelling, but rather than this being a new distro in itself, shouldn’t it be a desktop environment able to run on most Linux distros? It would be focused on better handling of gamepads/joysticks and graphics and soundcards (again, issues that are best handled by the manufacturers) but wouldn’t the recent announcements by Dell bode well for future hardware support?

[gillespie]

Yea we agreed that the first thing to do would be to get the gui designed, as a desktop environment, which will be the hardest part. I thought after that a light live distro (gubuntu) with this installed by default will be a great way to show it off without people installing linux full.

What we need first imho is some concept art of what people want in a system like this... feel free to post :D

[gwoodard]

Don't get me wrong on this but the look should be a windows/mac/ubuntu look and instead or wine or cedega Gubuntu could have its own thing for playing games:)

[Zyphrexi]

NOTE: not reading entire thread since i'm impatient

I never quite understand why there are Ubuntu derivatives, since a dedicated Ubuntu machine can be set up any way via repos. However I would like to see 'extra' type repositories dedicated to games. If it is simply a type of project like that, then I am always supporting new additions to the repositories. (whether anyone cares about my opinions)

::THEMES::

so easy to switch themes that if you want to create a 'main' gaming theme, you are free to do so. Including it in the repositories is a completely different matter.

::REPOS::

set up a repository with scripts, launchers, etc. An entire new infrastructure is completely unnecessary.
all this should be is increasing the ability and awareness of gaming on ubuntu.

jjust my opinion

[gillespie]

We cant recreate wine?! thats years of work! and as for the gui, i would rather go for a custom games console style gui than something like windows/mac/ubuntu

and Zyphrexi, the focus i think is to create the gui, the distro will just be a way of showing it off, and is lower priority

[prince_alfie]

Any chance of playing Elder Scrolls Oblivion using WINE?

[gillespie]

off topic maybe, but yes apparently, http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iVersionId=4596

[tretle]

I gotta say i like the feedback this forum is getting, as for creating concept art. Its a nice idea "but" and there is always a "but" focusing on core features and how they work might be more beneficial right now. Concept art is handy and gets people excited and all but you have to take things one step at a time. Trying to take in too much at once will just pressure you into failing or just now having fun doing what your doing.

[bahdom]

yeah, id love gubuntu. Could come with warsow too =]

[hikaricore]

Any chance of playing Elder Scrolls Oblivion using WINE?

There's quite a large thread on this topic in the gaming and leisure thread.

This however is not that thread. ^_^

[gillespie]

as for games included, just a couple from each genre would do, and then easy installation, with things like system requirements, screenshots, maybe videos, and a snippet of info.

Things we need imho:


Game Database with one click install
Multimedia player
Server browser for games
Login to ubuntu gamers website?
Play from disc for some games? Maybe emulator for older console games?
IM system between logged in players?
Automatic wine settings for non-native games


I know theres a lot to go at, but if we get a full list of desired and acheivable features, we can prioritise, and hopefully get to work :P

G

[tretle]

Automatic wine settings for non-native games :( if this is the case i want nothing to do with it, i dont want to get involved with something which is merely recreating the wheel. thats just my opinion and my final stand on the subject. i think automatic wine installations could be an added feature like a plugin for it but if its integrated into the project any more than that count me out.

[Zyphrexi]

wine is good, but an occasional pain. Information then is the most important aspect. such as, is this game compatable? what settings does it need to install? to run? I could see something like that, which already exists, but more integrated and streamlined, like how cedega has 'game profiles'. There is no reason why that should not be there, since it makes gaming on ubuntu easier. The fear I think, of some individuals is that it will cause new users to think of linux as a poor windows substitute, or create a lack of interest for opensource or linux freeware games. This is simply not true, and if an individual prefers a certain game as opposed to it's incomplete opensource clone, then that is that individual's preference and should not be trod upon. After all if linux is about choice and freedom, that choice should be made available in the spirit of gaming.

And now I will recite the gamer's prayer. :lolflag:

[e30ernest]

Hello! I'm a Linux newbie so I hope you guys don't mind me sharing my 2 cents. ;)

I think the best way to gain popularity (and users) is to provide at least support for non-native games. The reason behind this is that although there is no shortage of good native games, we can not deny the fact that non-native games are a lot more popular at the moment. Players of non-native games to me are a large un-tapped market for Linux.

I know we are trying to avoid Ubuntu, or any Linux distro for that matter, from gaining a reputation as a cheap Windows alternative. Right now, I think that is unavoidable to some extent. Even then, that shouldn't be a bad thing. Remember, Microsoft and IBM were once cheap alternatives to Apple computers and their proprietary hardware and OS. By providing support for more hardware, they eventually gained the lead in the market of operating systems. There is a lesson there for us all.


I know a lot of us dislike Windows and the ideals Microsoft stand for, but sadly the only way to beat them at their own game is to support the products that were made to run on their systems and provide our users with a much better system which is not only easy to use, secure and fast but one that is very versatile in that it can run almost any software out there.

If we want to persuade gamers to switch to the penguin world, we have to let them know that they could still play current and coming games. Once they have switched, it will be easier to persuade them to play native games. If you browse various forums you will see that questions such as "can I play (x) game in Ubuntu because I really like that game" are all over the place. Sometimes, the only thing keeping people from switching over from Windows is the fact that they can not play the games they want in Linux.

Microsoft's release of Windows Vista is a blessing for Linux distros like Ubuntu. Vista is probably the first OS from Microsoft to use gaming as a selling point. It is a blessing because Vista is turning into a flop. We need to capitalize on that failure and create a viable, efficient, and secure alternative for all the gamers out there if we want to succeed.

Another idea I have is instead of creating a new version of Ubuntu, why not just integrate a "game mode" function, In this case, a user can login to their normal desktop, then click a "game mode" icon on the desktop or in a menu toolbar. Doing so will "freeze" whatever processes or services that aren't needed. I am saying that these processes are frozen and not terminated so that when they exit the "game mode", they can return to their desktop and resume whatever it is they were doing. Palm OS does something similar whenever you enter and exit applications. It saves the state the application is in when you leave so that you can return to how you left it.

The "game mode" will have a lot of what you guys have said in the previous messages. It can have a browser showing the games currently installed and whatever can be downloaded from repositories. It should have the option to have a Windows compatibility mode enabled or disabled to attract as many gamers as possible.

One thing is for certain, it should run using minimal resources (hence the process freeze above) to give gamers the best possible speed. It should be attractive yes, but I believe that function should come first. Google has a very simple appearance compared to other search engines but in a few short years it has dominated internet search because it is fast and efficient. The same thing might work for our game interface.

A purely gaming OS can be an alternative in the future once there is a substantial user base to tap. Right now, a versatile OS you can use for work, multimedia and games would be a better decision.

Lastly, there is no way for us to succeed if we do not work together on this. It is okay to disagree, however once a consensus is made, we should set our ideals aside, and work together to complete the project.

The computer game industry will grow to be one of the biggest industries. Gaining a foothold there will secure Linux as a dominant force as a desktop OS in the future.

As a PC gamer, I love this idea. I hope you guys push through with it. I would gladly help if I can, however, I my work is information technology marketing related, and I have limited knowledge when it comes to the programming itself.

Sorry for the long post. If you read through it I hope you enjoyed it as much as I had writing it. ;)

[gillespie]

e30ernest put it just right, we need to support non native games in some way or another, its not idea, none of us like it, but if you want it to appeal to a larger audience it is needed, whether its a plugin or whatever, it has to be there

[hikaricore]

How many times do I have to say that WINE should not be a major point of a project like this?

I don't think this sort of a project should be about making things perfect for the idiots who are anti-microsoft just because it's the cool thing to do, or because they like beryl. These are the same people that turn around and complain at us (the community) when every single one of their windows games do not work with wine because they didn't bother to figure out that their intergated intel chip sucks /w the linux drivers by researching a bit, or didn't even care to google for "WINE games" or something of the sort to find the application database and see that their game of choice is listed as garbage. None of us need to waste any more time on people who are too lazy to bother doing anything and just want everything done for them.

Don't get me wrong, in a perfect world it would be great to offer something better for the new linux users when i comes to wine, but we don't live in a perfect world and it's simply not possible. The amount of time it would take to setup perfect out of the box wine for every application in existance could be better spent packaging hard to install native games or even writing new games for potential linux gamers.

I'm not bashing the new users either. Learning anything takes time and is easier for some than others. I'm just not willing to cater to the lazy and windows dependent.

Let me know when all interested parties understand this issue and I'll be happy to help in any way I can.

[e30ernest]

How many times do I have to say that WINE should not be a major point of a project like this?

I see where you are coming from. I am sure there will be idiots out there who would come bashing down on us because they couldn't run a particular app. However, for every idiot that arrives, I am sure there would be smart ones too who could drive the project even further. Those are the people we want to reach, and I think providing a good gaming platform with some compatibility with other OS's is the key.

To prevent your scenario or at least minimize the chances of idiots flocking into the forums, we can provide a disclaimer box that says not all Windows games are guaranteed to work and that they should check this website to see if their game is listed there. It will not eliminate idiots (because they are idiots) from coming in and starting squabbles from our forums, but at least their numbers will be reduced to a certain extent.

Eventually, what I hope would happen is that more gamers will flock to our side, and more game developers will notice and start churning out native games for us. ;)

[Enverex]

I see where you are coming from. I am sure there will be idiots out there who would come bashing down on us because they couldn't run a particular app. However, for every idiot that arrives, I am sure there would be smart ones too who could drive the project even further.

I'm afraid that ratio is much, MUCH lower with Ubuntu than with Linux in general, maybe 10, or even 20 to 1.

we can provide a disclaimer box that says not all Windows games are guaranteed to work and that they should check this website to see if their game is listed there.

See this is the problem. You're promoting Wine here as something integral to a project, but you apparently know nothing about it. The amount of times we have to deal with people that say they were following some guys How-To or something from some other site, when the ONLY supported compatibility site is the Wine Application Database (AppDB - http://appdb.winehq.org). THAT is where people need to check to see if an app works, not somewhere else.

Eventually, what I hope would happen is that more gamers will flock to our side

Not until Wine reaches a more stable state, it's currently very much Beta with lots of Alpha components, it's not ready for Joe Blogs and his "I want all my Windows games and programs to work" attitude (which yes, most of them do have).

[e30ernest]

I'm not going to pretend that I know a lot about Wine because truth be told, I don't. I am a newbie afterall to all this. ;) I am just trying to focus on what I think migrating gamers might be looking for, what they want, and what their expectations maybe. That is why I think a plugin like Wine may be a good idea. If it isn't then I stand corrected. :)

[gillespie]

It may be classed as beta, but many games and apps run fine, and we should not ignore this, we have to use all the weapons in our armoury to convert people

[ataraxis84]

Im all for supporting this...

[tretle]

This project is for native games "." Wine in no way will be considered a main feature of this project. If you want wine download it from the repositories, if you want a gamercentric version download cedega. Screw the people who dont like the native games, they seem to be the most annoying people I have met in my life thus far, they speak of compramizes and hearing their voice but they have no interest in what the project stands for. You dont like linux gaming, you dont like the native games then do something about it instead of taking the easy way out. A compramize was made, wine would be included in the repositories. But no, thats not enough for you. Well p*ss of then instead of cloging this forum with your wine, cedega and microsoft loving. Stop hiding your views behind masks like these "idiots" your so nicely thinking about. Why the hell do you care about the idiots of this world, It makes me laugh because your calling yourselves idiots, this forum has gotten out of control with this wine thing, something must be done,I'll leave it to the moderators to decide. The thing which pushed me over the limit here was that because one person wont listen to what people are saying you have these newbies entering this thread without and posting without reading what has been said a hundred timnes before. if you like wine abd cedega so much start a thread in their feature suggestions forums. this is not the place for you.

[hikaricore]

O.o we've lost em, tretle has gone off the deep end lol

[Zyphrexi]

yeah now I just have to post about how great MS is, and how much superior windows games are to linux.

cedega - commercial - so it can't be included
wine - is for the wine devs to support, not a meta-package maintainer

Honestly, I'm tired of converting people, you can't make everyone happy, and just because linux is a superior OS (kernel really, but i'm not getting into all that) to windows, doesn't make it a better OS for some people. You will never 'bring them into the fold' with linux gaming. It will never live up to the expectations of gaming snobs.

Linux gaming really isn't all that difficult. There are oodles of websites with games for download, and it's not that hard. If you're wanting something 'clean' (meaning it installs via dpkg and can be maintained reasonably well) I agree with that. I would like to see more repos with more games. That I will vote for.

EDIT: btw when I first started with linux (rh7 I think) I worked my *** off to get wine to work. As a hardcore gamer, it was one of the first challenges I faced. My advice to new people is to experiment first, then when you bungle things, ask for help. I unfortunately did not have such a luxury.

[Enverex]

That's something I'll vote for, games in repos, that's one thing Ubuntu lacks (that I thought it would have) and that Gentoo actually did well (not to mention Gentoo made it easy to install any commercial game too using their package manager which was really useful).

[Canuckelhead]

Nice Idea...

[e30ernest]

That's something I'll vote for, games in repos, that's one thing Ubuntu lacks (that I thought it would have) and that Gentoo actually did well (not to mention Gentoo made it easy to install any commercial game too using their package manager which was really useful).

Yes that will be great too! That would make it easier for newbies like me to install games. :)

[gillespie]

ok, dont support wine, just cater for the 3% of people that will happily dump all of their payed for commercial games for the ones you have to offer

native linux games cannot replace commercial ones altogether atm, there are just some types that arent there yet

[compiledkernel]

ok, dont support wine, just cater for the 3% of people that will happily dump all of their payed for commercial games for the ones you have to offer

native linux games cannot replace commercial ones altogether atm, there are just some types that arent there yet

I do believe that the number of Commercial native linux games isnt near as small as you think it is Gill.

Current Retail versions
Quakewars
UT3
X3: Reunion
UT2003/2004
NWN

Prior Retail versions
Tribes 2
Postal
Rune
Cold War
Sin
Jagged Alliance
RtCW

There are a number of Natively supported versions existing for current games. And there are more coming. Honestly its only a matter of time before it makes a difference to the user base. I think gaming on a linux machine is going to become alot more common than you think.

[Zyphrexi]

I think gaming on a linux machine is going to become alot more common than you think.

maybe if you're talking emulation, but you have to take in several factors when considering commercial games for linux.

1. Demand vs. Cost
should we really bother? will we actually make a profit? Or would it be better to start a new project?

2. Time
Anything worth anything takes time... and money. game companies are scared of linux, linux devs cost a lot because of the knowledge they possess. And then of course there is support. which opens up a whole new can of worms which I won't go into here due to redundancy.

Back to the repo thing... Ok well voting and hoping don't accomplish anything, but proper planning does.

Yeah and I agree that gentoo has a superior packaging system and support, which frankly blows me away that ubuntu does not take a page from the distro. I'd probably switch if it wasn't for the simple fact that I have never had a successful install. But until then, an automatix like install script can easily be created. Oh, and any thoughts on what games should be included?

EDIT: Loki has stuff like this for those who do not know. http://www.liflg.org/?catid=6 I'm just saying, expand this a bit. no point in reinventing the wheel.

[gwoodard]

But why don't the guys at Linux just buy certain game programming and or game manufacturing so that way they can make very similar games to the ones we play on Windows

Just a question, don't yell at me:(

[hikaricore]

But why don't the guys at Linux just buy certain game programming and or game manufacturing so that way they can make very similar games to the ones we play on Windows

Just a question, don't yell at me:(


There are no "guys at Linux".

Linux isn't a place, or a company, or a person, or a hotdog stand. It's an operating system created and managed by volunteers and small groups with minimal funding. No one can just buy "game programming/manufacturing" it doesn't work that way. We'd all be more than happy to run DirectX under Linux if it would make the world happy, but it's closed source and Microsoft will never give us access to use it in the way they (and those they license developement to) do. They keep it this way to keep their users from switching to another operating system. This gives them power and control over millions of people who refuse to change (kind of like the Matrix). ^_^

[lopagof]

vmware

wine

emulators (lots)

Ubuntu studio themes

install guides for gamers who dont know a ton about linux.

[hikaricore]

vmware

wine

emulators (lots)

Ubuntu studio themes

install guides for gamers who dont know a ton about linux.

This is just my opinion:

no

no

yes some

no stealing themes from other releases

yes

[Zyphrexi]

Linux isn't a place, or a company, or a person, or a hotdog stand.

rotflmao... I love the hotdog stand part. Seriously should be put in a sig.

[gwoodard]

Ok... just a thought what do you think the system requirements should be for Gubuntu?:lolflag:

[MetalMusicAddict]

Ive been watching this thread because of the way my previous thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=402894) went and it seems like this is no farther than when it started.

In the end it will take someone to "just do it". Its been said that you cant please everyone so someone will just have to step up and get it done regardless.

I do fear however that what will happen is another "Linux Mint" will happen and include bits that Ubuntu doesn't for license/patent issues. This is just me and how I guide Ubuntu Studio. I also don't feel a whole new OS is needed.

I did see another thing I wanted to address. re: "More games in the repos." There was a Ubuntu games team but as far as I can see they started to work more with Debian.

I think a strong thing Ubuntu Gamers Arena can do to help Ubuntu gaming is to packages newer versions of games up to Ubuntu standards. As well as working with the Ubuntu games team and Debian. GetDeb does a good job but its not quite up to standards.

[Zyphrexi]

Metal: do you think that something like the Ubuntu Studio launcher could be used for games?

To no one in particular: I'm not a part of the (any) team, but I can build/package junk, it ain't hard. The problem is hosting. Say I build Vega Strike from cvs and package it all nice and clean like. Who's gonna host it?

making a simple application installer/launcher would be a piece of cake. Loki's game demo installer comes to mind. Granted I'm just thinking wget && dpkg -i *.deb

EDIT: after reading your post Metal, it sounds like you've been there. and actually now that I think on it, I was following that thread for a while. but a metapackage is unnecessary as well... well at least to start. package creation and hosting would have to be the foundation, then all the other optional blocks could fall into place. If nothing else, create a set of docs (in yelp, still learning docbook...) advising the ubuntu gamer on what packages would provide an optimal gaming experience.

[Enverex]

Ok... just a thought what do you think the system requirements should be for Gubuntu?:lolflag:

It's STILL Ubuntu so whatever the requirements for Ubuntu are.

[5ER]

That would be awesome.
Just, if anyone attempts, don't force users to gnome. Users should choose what desktop they want while installation.

This distro should include wine, cedega cvs, wmware (more=better because if it doesn't work, you can try something else)
Emulation for:
-windows (PC games)
-mac (something might work better when emulating a mac rather than windows)
-consoles (play station, xbox...) Not only PC games.

If someone capable decides to make this distro, I can try and make themes for kde for this distro.

[Enverex]

That would be awesome.
Just, if anyone attempts, don't force users to gnome. Users should choose what desktop they want while installation.

This distro should include wine, cedega cvs, wmware (more=better because if it doesn't work, you can try something else)
Emulation for:
-windows (PC games)
-mac (something might work better when emulating a mac rather than windows)
-consoles (play station, xbox...) Not only PC games.

If someone capable decides to make this distro, I can try and make themes for kde for this distro.

You have to force users to a specific desktop environment to begin with else you couldn't fit them all (or even just KDE and Gnome) on one CD.

Cedega CVS is pretty much useless, it's an old castrated version of Cedega that no-one with experience would recommend.

There are no current Mac emulators (only for old PPC stuff and it's REALLY slow).

[5ER]

You have to force users to a specific desktop environment to begin with else you couldn't fit them all (or even just KDE and Gnome) on one CD.
I support that a lot of emulators are installed by default (and even more available in the repos) And that is quite a lot. There are multiple consoles and multiple emulators for each console. More=better as said before.

And... There are two kinds of users: with internet connection and without internet connection.

For those with internet connection:
-cd which downloads selected desktop environment while installation

For those without internet connection:
-cd with GNOME
-cd with KDE
-dvd with everything.

Also, do not forget to install many video and sound codecs and such essential stuff.

[hikaricore]

i'm completely done posting in this thread.

[gillespie]

I do believe that the number of Commercial native linux games isnt near as small as you think it is Gill.

I never said it was small, i said it wasn't complete.

And i say again, I don't go for either kde or gnome, I vote for a custom gamer oriented gui, like something from a games console.

Maybe if we build the core, then have extra functionality (emulatoion, play from disk, wine) as plugins?

[Enverex]

Well to be honest it is small, tiny even. There are what, 8 commercial games (mostly newer versions of the same game) by 2 companies then a few others. The only thing added to that would be the ports that Loki games did, but those aren't really appealing as they cost about 1600% more than the Windows versions do. There's a distinct lack of variety.

[sebas.rhcp]

Like it or not best games are made for Window$, i think Wine is the way to go it's the first step out of a long walk. There are many Linux Games under development that are aiming to becoming AAA games and they need the support of the community to make this come true.

The only native game I play is Battle for Wesnoth. I liked Open Transport Deluxe I was impressed, too. And I'm waiting Alien Invasion to be more polished.

And the more people gaming on Linux more developers, more bug reports and more new ideas...

PD: Old School Gamers need NES,SNES,Genesis,PSX, etc emulation too.

[tretle]

if you want to use windows software so much use windows. that simple people. linux isnt the cheap alternative. enough said.

[5ER]

if you want to use windows software so much use windows. that simple people. linux isnt the cheap alternative. enough said.

We can make a linux distro with software for emulating consoles and if we make that, why not add windows emulators.

So, anyone ready to make a distro?

[Enverex]

We can make a linux distro with software for emulating consoles and if we make that, why not add windows emulators.

So, anyone ready to make a distro?

It wont be a distro unless it uses its own unique packages and/or its own new package manager, it'll just be another modification of Ubuntu.

[5ER]

It wont be a distro unless it uses its own unique packages and/or its own new package manager, it'll just be another modification of Ubuntu.

So mandriva is a modification of suse? they both use rpms.
And ubuntu is a modification of debian? Yes, it is, but it is still a distro, I guess.

[Enverex]

So mandriva is a modification of suse? they both use rpms.
And ubuntu is a modification of debian? Yes, it is, but it is still a distro, I guess.

I like how you conveniently ignored the other half of what I said. Don't bother replying if you're not going to read replies properly.

[5ER]

This MIGHT be useful: http://www.gnewsense.org/Builder/HowToCreateYourOwnGNULinuxDistribution

[gillespie]

better not starting with a distro, better starting with a flashy DE under normal ubuntu, then taking it from there

[stealth17]

Count me in on the idea, I would REALLY like to a see a decent linux distro that supported games. Though I agree with gillespie, a separate distro would mean dual boot, which I could do the same with windows now and have full compatibility.

[Enverex]

Count me in on the idea, I would REALLY like to a see a decent linux distro that supported games. Though I agree with gillespie, a separate distro would mean dual boot, which I could do the same with windows now and have full compatibility.

*sighs* You people really need to learn what a distro really is. It wouldn't be a "distro" that supported games, it would be underlying software which in Linux runs on any distro (unless they stick with weird things for some reason). Distros aren't different OSs, they are just different wrappers on your chocolate.

[j.miller565]

So are we going to do something?

[burt_57]

I am new at all this like I said many time before.
I have not been in Windows Xp pro for 2 weeks now.
But I must say I will have to.
GAME i want to play my games ...Wine don,t cut it.
I have 3 games I love to play
1...... The God Father
2...... Mafia
3......Max Payne one and 2
Hey it relax me and right now am so tense trying to make it work on Ubuntu 7 /i386.
I have sound, internet,scanner,printer, music, now DVD , but no game.
long story shot... Windows Xp here I come .....wanna play. ;)

[burt_57]

I've only just started using Ubuntu (And Linux at all), I've spent the last few days getting the desktop and media stuff working how I want it, and now I'm gonna start trying to get some games working through wine. I think this is a really good idea, and proving that there are people interested in gaming on Linux will maybe one day prove to developers that there is a market for them on Linux too!
I'm in full support of this idea
Tired of Windows here ...but need game to work with ubuntu.
I need game " My games...... the one I have on CD .
Would be nice to insert the disk and have it to intall or run without having
to spend many hrs just to see that it dont' work :(

Burt_57

[tretle]

So are we going to do something?

well yes, things will be done... eventually. I myself will work on something when I get the time, im not going to post on any of the progress until it gets to a pont that people can understand what alot of us want to do " I might show an alpha to a select few people whome I believe understand the princepal of the project right now". It will have nothing to do with wine and will concentrate on native, both open source and closed. I do expect someone out their might do something with wine, to be honest I couldnt care less. this thread has become a place for people to come and complain abut wine inclusion and that has forced alot of people away from the thread. This will be my last post on the subject, just letting people know where some people went. I expect to start work in the next few weeks as my exams start the monday week. :(

[j.miller565]

ok that's sweet.

Good luck with your exmans tretle!

[burt_57]

not sure if anyone else suggested this but I think it would be a good idea to package the ATI & NVIDIA drivers into the distro. Durring the setup process, it would either install the appropriate drivers on its own, or ask the user if they would like to install the driver and which to install. This way the user boots un into linux for the first time and doesn't have to figure out what driver to install or try to work out issues with the driver not installing properly.

Since the majority of users who want "gaming" will almost certainly have ATI or NVIDIA graphics cards, this would most certainly be benificial. Liscensing issues however might be another story.

That is what it should do ...drivers for sound card and video be done during install of Ubuntu :)

[tretle]

yes there is, playing native linux games, opensource or comercial. you can play quake 4 and unreal tournament 2004 on linux nativily along aith many others. They are just two comercial big name games in which you can play in linux natively. The upcoming epic game and successor to unreal tournament 2004 "unreal 3" will also be playable under linux natively. If you check out the ubuntu gamers arena you can find all games whic run natively under linux both opensource and comercial closed source. You will also find news regarding gaming under linux/ubuntu. I dont like wine, i dont like cedega thats not implying anything bad about the developers I just dont like what it stands for. I think we should be swaying developers to make native linux versions of their games available, not giving them the impresion we dont need native versions. Right now if you want to play games unsupported by linux just by a gaming consol. its that simple, apreciate linux for what it is and dont try and make it emulate something its not :D The end, that really is my last post. Finito. Im washing my hands of this thread.

[jusmurph]

I honestly don't see a satisfying Gaming Distro of any Linux any time soon. A gaming distro would have to be able to say that the OS, supports atleast 50% of the latest greatest games. It is simply not the way the world works, Windows has the game market, sure you can root around with wine, pay for other 'emulators' etc. There is a small array of decent games on Linux sure, but its all about the market... You need to get developers to support Linux. Real high budget game releases, every camp has to take Linux seriously; the consumer, the developer, the publisher, the Linux developers...

The best thing Linux can offer as far as gaming goes at the moment i can see (short of swaying greater developer support) would be to create a sort of automatix (as an example, as in what it stands for rather than how it does it) a sort of easy way to aquire necessary tweaks to ubuntu to get gaming, with easy ways to get the best few games of each genre of game.

More of a way to streamline and centralise the tweaks needed to get the necessary tools and recommended games. To improve (make easier) the expirence of gamers rather than try and make an Linux/Ubuntu Distro that simply is incapable of offering what it sets out to do. It can't be successful, or taken seriously if it runs 5% of all games made for a computer platform.

Also it needs to really knuckle down on (USB) Gaming Acessories such as:
Logical G15 Keyboards and similar
Game pads
Microphones
Joysticks etc

It needs to happyly work with what we have an improve it, rather than be something it simply is not.

[burt_57]

I honestly don't see a satisfying Gaming Distro of any Linux any time soon. A gaming distro would have to be able to say that the OS, supports atleast 50% of the latest greatest games. It is simply not the way the world works, Windows has the game market, sure you can root around with wine, pay for other 'emulators' etc. There is a small array of decent games on Linux sure, but its all about the market... You need to get developers to support Linux. Real high budget game releases, every camp has to take Linux seriously; the consumer, the developer, the publisher, the Linux developers...

The best thing Linux can offer as far as gaming goes at the moment i can see (short of swaying greater developer support) would be to create a sort of automatix (as an example, as in what it stands for rather than how it does it) a sort of easy way to aquire necessary tweaks to ubuntu to get gaming, with easy ways to get the best few games of each genre of game.

More of a way to streamline and centralise the tweaks needed to get the necessary tools and recommended games. To improve (make easier) the expirence of gamers rather than try and make an Linux/Ubuntu Distro that simply is incapable of offering what it sets out to do. It can't be successful, or taken seriously if it runs 5% of all games made for a computer platform.

Also it needs to really knuckle down on (USB) Gaming Acessories such as:
Logical G15 Keyboards and similar
Game pads
Microphones
Joysticks etc

It needs to happyly work with what we have an improve it, rather than be something it simply is not.

This is what I do :)
I complain a lot to the maker of games and I do mention to them that if is is not
compatible with linux i will not buy it. And if I already have the game I go to their web site
and do the same .... I say make a fix so that I can play the games I bought to play on linux
or I will not support you anymore.
I have done this with some hardware I have bought and I will never buy from them anymore.
I also advise other about my problems.

[5ER]

This is what I do :)
I complain a lot to the maker of games and I do mention to them that if is is not
compatible with linux i will not buy it. And if I already have the game I go to their web site
and do the same .... I say make a fix so that I can play the games I bought to play on linux
or I will not support you anymore.
I have done this with some hardware I have bought and I will never buy from them anymore.
I also advise other about my problems.

So there's two of us. Just, I'm not so active.
Are you successful, did you convince anyone?

[j.miller565]

so how do you exactly tell game makers like EA, etc that you would like them to start making games for Linux?

[burt_57]

so how do you exactly tell game makers like EA, etc that you would like them to start making games for Linux?
Did you ever read when you buy a game and look who the maker is?
Do research and find where they are and write them an Email.....simple as that.
It does not have to be an naty Email, but a a advise.

[compiledkernel]

so how do you exactly tell game makers like EA, etc that you would like them to start making games for Linux?

Prove to the provider of the game that there is a market for doing so. Dell needed to be proven to that selling linux machines had a market to accomodate it. Software dev is no different.

[j.miller565]

ok that's sweet

[tretle]

xbmc is coming to linux, on the wiki it references ubuntu 7.04 as the developement platform. For the people that like the idea of the games consol like gui for gubuntu then this peice of software would perfectly suite the bill.... For anyone who has used xbmc for the start it is easy to see how team xbmc influenced the future designs of consol usability and function. Whats more the game browser would be the perfect thing to integrate into it, and it wouldnt take much effort to do so with xbmc modular shape. For anyone whos interested in learning more on what xbmc is and what it will bring to the linuc desktop go to http://www.xboxmediacenter.com/

[TLM]

If I could, I would like to give some input here. I am new to Ubuntu but have been using computers off and on for over 30 years. I like to game, but there was one real roadblock for me to use Linux for gaming, the documentation is spotty as far as usefulness is concerned. Do not get me wrong, I can use command line but prefer not to. What happens in most of the documentation I have seen so far has been of two mindsets. Use command line for everything or use the GUI. I understand that a lot of the old hand at linux are very comfortable at using command lines however most people who game are not. Some of the things I see assume that for certain things that you already have a certain level of knowledge about using Linux command lines or know specifically what to do for certain things. Several specifics come to mind and that is installing drivers, workarounds for certain types of OS behavior, resolving issues with your game installation. For the gaming communtiy in general (not the average linux user) there needs to be better documentation of what to do or how to do things. One of the stumbling blocks I ran into specifically was that the WOW documentation says "You may have trouble with the gnome-panel/kicker showing up above the WoW "window". Make sure you have used the configuration settings above or set Gnome's fullscreen hotkey." What it does not say anywhere is that this occurs with Beryl and to disable beryl and it will go away OR how specifically do you set up a Gnome fullscreen hotkey??

On another note when I changed from using the on board video to a video card, the instructions on how to get the drivers installed consisted of go to the Nvidea website and download them. After several hours of trying to figure out how to install them after I downloaded them I just reinstalled Ubuntu and let it automatically detect the card and install the correct drivers that way.

What this tells me is that there needs to be a technical writing team to do the Wiki's. Maybe even split it out, one for the experienced user and one for the general public. I do not mean to downplay experience but if you want more users to switch over then you need to make things a bit more user friendly. Ubuntu has taken large steps in this direction with the GUI app installer which is quite nice. How about making a script or installer that works for other games such as WOW that would automatically install all the dependencies, scripts and drivers needed for the game? It would not have to be for WOW specifically but could be designed for any of the MMO's and say another for the FPS type games, etc.

I know that sounds like a lot of work and it may be too much at this time. I would like to see this become very user friendly (ok easy for the computer stupid) in the future.

[rickycodie]

what about using virtual box?
i am also for this, if i could help by testing or something i would, but it would be my first time. and i would need help.

[Enverex]

what about using virtual box?
i am also for this, if i could help by testing or something i would, but it would be my first time. and i would need help.

Doesn't support 3D hardware acceleration so it wouldn't exactly be useful for gaming.

[rocknrolf77]

Virtualbox does support 3d when you install the virtualbox guest additions. You can select how much memory from your gpu you want to "give" to the guest system :)

[Enverex]

Virtualbox does support 3d when you install the virtualbox guest additions. You can select how much memory from your gpu you want to "give" to the guest system :)

That assumes you have a processor with Virtualisation support...

[j.miller565]

I've never tried Virtual Box before. What's it like?

[j.miller565]

Hey guys have you checked this out? http://live.linux-gamers.net/

[Warpnow]

http://ubuntusoftware.info/ubuntu_ultimate_gamers/

^
It exists already

[hikaricore]

Hey guys have you checked this out? http://live.linux-gamers.net/

http://ubuntusoftware.info/ubuntu_ultimate_gamers/

^
It exists already


I believe these have both already been mentioned in this thread.

[Clay_Banger]

i just noticed that hikaricore is on the forum staff now,congrats!

anyway to make sure this post isn't a complete waste..

i think that there is no need to create another gaming distro, just put all your effort into helping out the other ones.

[j.miller565]

i think so too right now

[ZacDavis]

I would have to say it would still be worth it to create a games only distro. By looking at the Ultimate Gamer's Edition's software, there's a huge list of programs that just do not need to be there, for instance Inkscape, Screem, multiple mp3 players, LAMP, Gambas, Gobby Team programing software, Anjuta, Bluefish, Glade, Screem (it was listed twice :) ), a bajillion themes, etc.

I would support and help out distro that just installed the games only, leaving the other programs to be gathered later, if wanted.

[zuzuzzzip]

I'm all for.. I think it would be a fantastic idea, and eventually a helpful 'port' for those gamers fed up with Windows...
²

[Ioky]

For a Serious talk, I really think instead to have a Ubuntu for Games. A 3D graphic support Virtual Machine will be much Better. for 2 Reason. First, when you talk about games. it is Windows' world. When you look at the window they are millions game out there, but when you looking at TUX, he might only have one or two game on it's hands. Think about it. company wouldn't change their direction from window to linux. even now Windows become worest and worest. Vista is a great example for that. company still making game for it, it is simplly many people are use it. end of the story. you just can't change the fact on this. so Doesn't matter how great linux are, wouldn't help a bit on this.
Second, think about it. how much great game we have been miss for years, wouldn't run any more because of the difference version of windows. if we have a Virtual machine that is good enough, we can play game on the OS that is best for the it. No more OS limitation. So that doesn't slow down the development on the Base System. but also doesn't get on our way to playing the game we always love. Right?

One thing I should make myself clear, is that I am support Liunx game develpment. especially on those people who try to make game work right out of the box. you know some time install is a plain in linux. haha. do able but annoy.

[Ioky]

really as the title say. An Ubuntu for Gamers

Gamers!!! they play all the game around. if you told me you are a gamer but you have have a computer but nothing else. you are mostly likely lying haha. so if Ubuntu have a Gamers VERSION. it should be able to play as much as difference thing as possible. game like GBA GB, SFC, FC, windows game, Liunx GAme. just as much difference kind of game as possible.

really at this state all you can do is putting thing that already exist to fit into the goal. Think about it, there are not that many people are good at computer as "Forgetten" who write Virtual GBA. alone. and even that take a lot of time, and some other thing. And now you are talking about to make a OS into the way you want. Close to impossible to almost of the Home user. If that is me, I would just create a installation Note to tell the user which software should be install and what is the use of them in order make your computer into a best Liunx gaming system. In fact, that is more effective. to any one. you should know make something like Ubuntu studio need to be update with ubuntu which it really fast, half year a date. is not as easy as you can see. you really need a team of experianced people who have the same goal as you do.

really for a game, it is no point to use liunx at this point. Liux lover can be a gamer, but gamers mostly not a linux lover. after all Gubuntu is a really great idea. I love it.

[hikaricore]

really as the title say. An Ubuntu for Gamers

Gamers!!! they play all the game around. if you told me you are a gamer but you have have a computer but nothing else. you are mostly likely lying haha. so if Ubuntu have a Gamers VERSION. it should be able to play as much as difference thing as possible. game like GBA GB, SFC, FC, windows game, Liunx GAme. just as much difference kind of game as possible.

really at this state all you can do is putting thing that already exist to fit into the goal. Think about it, there are not that many people are good at computer as "Forgetten" who write Virtual GBA. alone. and even that take a lot of time, and some other thing. And now you are talking about to make a OS into the way you want. Close to impossible to almost of the Home user. If that is me, I would just create a installation Note to tell the user which software should be install and what is the use of them in order make your computer into a best Liunx gaming system. In fact, that is more effective. to any one. you should know make something like Ubuntu studio need to be update with ubuntu which it really fast, half year a date. is not as easy as you can see. you really need a team of experianced people who have the same goal as you do.

really for a game, it is no point to use liunx at this point. Liux lover can be a gamer, but gamers mostly not a linux lover. after all Gubuntu is a really great idea. I love it.

...... (no comment) .... LINUX ..... EXPERIENCED ..... LINUX ... LINUX

[Fosphor]

I would like to support this project, but for me, there is one exxential question:

Do we want to create another derivate of Ubuntu, just for gamers, or do we like to create a script such as Automatix e.g. wich installs the games comfortable?


I think it isn't such a good idea to create ANOTHER derivate of ubuntu. Firstly, there are just the old conflicts, like KDE or Gnome, and your decision doesn't matter because you can't decide on the right way.

If you take Gnome, after a half year, there would be a KDE-derivate aof the gamer-derivate of ubuntu. If you choose KDE, it would be the other way the same.


I would like to prefer a script, wich let's you choose the games you want to install, and the script installs them for you just with one click. I know there is such a script (i don't know the name of it at the moment), but it's still experimental to use it.

[compiledkernel]

To Fosphor:

No the object is to tailor a build that has access to the popular games. Creating a helper script like automatix would defeat the purpose of such an idea. The installers for most of the popular games out there are either debs or loki installers, both of which are fairly simplistic to run and install.

[Nick1890]

If you start off with Ubuntu you can load in afterwards for example other desktops such as KDE, Xfce, etc and switch over to it.
Why don´t you establish a "Gamer´s Desktop" with associated program files?

[tyggna1]

I think the best place to start something like this would be an e-mail--from a number of linux users--directed toward their favorite game developers saying, "I'd love to play your games--but there isn't adequate linux support. I'm sorry, but I just can't play your game on my system."

After a dozen or so of these e-mails, they might take a closer look at compiling their software for linux. Who knows, maybe they'll find that it's cheaper (and easier) to work with open-source drivers and just start making all their games for it.

Open source games are great and all--but getting an Ubuntu that works closely with game developers would probably attract more gamers--despite the awkward relationship between many commercial developers and the Open Source Community.

[Clay_Banger]

After a dozen or so of these e-mails, they might take a closer look at compiling their software for linux.

i dont think you realise how much time and money that a dev is gunna put in2 getting there software out on linux. the dev is not going to spend that time and money unless they get out more then they put in, and currently not enough people use linux for the devs to get more money back then what they put in.

so a few dozen emails is defiantly not going to attract there attention at all. we need alot more, im talking hundreds of thousands before they will stop brushing linux users aside and take us serious.

[hikaricore]

a few dozen physical letters is defiantly not going to attract their attention at all. we need alot more, im talking hundreds of thousands of physical letters and sales before they will stop brushing linux users aside and take us serious.

Fixed that for ya. :guitar:

[Zavior]

I have just finished reading this entire thread and it seams that there were two main Ideas on here. (I say this in past tense as it seems that the Linux only group has been run off)

One idea is to create something that will support Linux games exclusively. The arguments for this have included: it would not be a cheap Windows rip-off, it would be clean of that crap we refer to as windows and anything related to it, and it would provide an opportunity for gamers to come to the Linux world and hopefully promote Linux gaming to commercial developers and large companies.

The other idea is to create something for gamers of all sorts. This could include emulation/compatibility for both Windows and console gaming platforms. The arguments for this have included: getting gamers that are still in love with windows games into the world of Linux gaming, offering a gaming system that runs better than windows (i.e. less processes running, a stripped down OS, etc), and promoting Linux gaming to commercial developers and large companies.

Both these Ideas have been presented as either another version (not distro lol) of Ubuntu or a gaming engine/program (what was the word tretle used?). Also I believe that both agree that it would be good to have media functionality.

It seams that there has been some difficulty on settling with one or another of these ideas. Right now I am not sure which opinion I agree with. These are what I see as the cons to each idea:

Linux only: you might have a bit of trouble getting those gamers that are stuck on there windows games in on this idea (now I know that tretle holds the opinion that these people are not needed but I think this might be to big of a group of gamers to miss)

Other idea (I need a catchy name for this idea lol): If what you really want is a universal system that will play all of your games I just dont think that its going to happen. (now I do realize that many ppl holding with this idea have more things in mind than just this). And I think it will be hard to avoid making it a cheap knockoff of windows. One other thought if you want to play windows games and still use Linux: Dual-Boot!

Now I am sorry about the length of this post but it seamed that the thread wasnt getting very far and I thought it might be good to get the ideas somewhat summarized. If I missed anything really important tell me. To wrap it all up sounds like an awesome Idea and I would hate to see it fail in its conceptual stage and if all else fails maybe the two groups could split and go in different directions to accomplish there own goals.

[dresman]

everything:)Everything that involves opensource gaming!

[legonum]

Hello,
I am VERY new to Ubuntu.
To begin with I had typed out a long reply to this post, but it took me so long to type It I was logged out before I finished. This time I'll keep it brief.

YES! I think it would be great to have a version of linux/Ubuntu that was designed from the ground up to serve the PC gamer. (this would be of great benefit for the graphics designer as well.)
Failing that ,something like the Gamers console would be grudgingly accepted. Do any of you folks remember when you were first trying to set up your Ubuntu to enable your hardware....and find your modem?

[durand]

EDIT: Confused post :S

[ladede]

Gubuntu? Waw.. i should try this one.........

[i-tech]

so i am little bit confused is this a debate if the Gubuntu should be developed or this project is started / or going to start?
an enlightenment should be nice ,
thanks & kind regards

[ghostwalk.with.me]

Personally, I'd go with virtualbox. It's faster than VMware and Innotek has an open source version of it, already in the Gutsy repos.

Another thing which would be a welcome addition would probably be a slew of emulators such as dosbox, psx, and mame.

[legonum]

If you have a project going already, with a view to creating this kind of Ubuntu version, how can developers get involved?

Is there something non-programmers can do to help?

Like a few others, I just don't see it as practical to include windows emulation, dual booting is a simple and effective away to make windows games accessible on an Ubuntu system. ( I say this realizing that setting up a windows partition on the same hard drive as Ubuntu might be tricky) what the heck do I know? I can't even install my software from CD. This is just my humble newbie opinion.

[ohmycar]

I think it would be pretty cool to have a distro revolved around video games. I heard about it in the past, but I never saw something come out of it. I am totally up for it.

[Fonon]

I got an idea for the possible-project-to-be.

Remove lesser known/used programs relative to the gamer. I'm thinking about some accessories, almost all of the graphics programs, OOo, etc. Slap on an awesome theme in Xfce so it's less resource draining, and there you go.

[Rafadagaffer]

I'm not sure if this distro is in development or just being discussed but it sounds like a great idea, I could finally kill my Vista partition, the games I play just don't seem to work using wine :(

[tretle]

Its not as simple as removing some apps like openoffice.... Theres allot of stuff running in the background you dont necisarrily need.. This kind of thing needs to be properly thought about and discussed.. Im pretty busy at college right now but I have found like minded people in the course im doing.. We have been talking about possible solutions and whatnot and hope to get some stuff done over the summer.. Gubuntu in my view should be more than a varient of ubuntu with some games thrown in... Some work needs to be done to standardize some things and make it easier for people to develope games for linux based os's Maybe use telepathy for voice in online games... Create plugins for telepathy frontends so people can invite freinds to games and whatnot... Im not going to bother talking about it until I have something that we have done that we can show.. Right now all I have is a Development document which i am building up every day. When we do get working on it and do release information on it then people will know.

[jekinney]

Read most of the 100plus posts, most with great ideas. Now is the perfect time to work on this, as the new windows os has made alot of people move to linux.

But for my 1cent thoughts. Yes, I agree on a striped down version, but to make it better then any other linux, it will have to be able to run directx games. As I have messed around a very little bit, with DX10, and DX9L, they are not inbeded into the main os dll files. Maybe be able to emulate better??

And with the Ubuntu style add/remove you could have more programs on the install cd and let users choose to install later with the disk.

Resting the succes on a gamers version of linux, inbedded in a third party software(ie wine) could make for some problems. I would put my first efforts in getting DX9L and DX10.1 to work with linux.

Finally, In my opinon, the average users do not have very powerfull pc's (one of the pro's to running linux). Which could, and will, cause conflicts with newer games that can not run on older systems.

Great ideas, get to work!!!

[zuzuzzzip]

But for my 1cent thoughts. Yes, I agree on a striped down version, but to make it better then any other linux, it will have to be able to run directx games.
That would be THE reason to finaly stop dual-booting for many ubuntu/linux users! (Whilst not regarding game manufacturers should step away of their windows-only attitude -> they should take an example from what ID Software & Splash Damage did with Enemy Territory and Enemy Territory: Quake Wars)

[cv_zero]

just another vote of interest, im not much use developer wise but ill do what i can

[tretle]

As I stated before I think if things were to be focussed on direct x emulation you are setting yourself up for second place.. There is nothing wrong with opengl and if developers think there is something missing then they can contribute and be usefull.. We arent talking about a baby project here.. open gl has been around for a very long time.. I understand that alot of you dont think opengl is better for a number of reasons and you dont have a coding background so you cant contribute but I am talking about it at more of a developer level. Copying what others do or emulating what others do isnt going to make people want to move to a substandered way achieving the same goal. Its all about thinking in the long run, thinking in a fresh way and inovated were others have not taking into account or in microsofts case have abandoned in order to make more money selling consoles. As for getting older games to work with linux and whatnot well thats all well and good but you will always be left in a trail trying to catch up.
I have nothing against wine, I understand why it is there and have uptmost respect for everyone that has contributed to it but no matter how maney times they disagree it is just emulation. Just like your snes emulators, playstation emulaters etc.
I think this thread has come along way since it was concieved, first just a spin of ubuntu catered towards gamers, then a debate over whether something like wine should be included as default sprung up a whole new brainstorm on how "Linux Gaming" not windows gaming under linux just linux gaming can evolve to take in aspects of the console and pc gaming and morph some of their best elements into something great.
It kept me interested in linux, not just gaming but everything especially the fun and intriguing projects which have sprung up over the last few years like compiz and beryl, conduit, tracker and telepathy.
Its amazing how this thread has pushed me to chalanging lecturers about their dependance on windows which is truly a joke as they have turned cross platform languages like java into windows only spinoffs with some trully horrible classtypes.
And I really enjoy showing people at college what makes linux so great how amazing it is. Linux to me is truly infinate because of the communities passion towards it... Jeeze anyway back to the point, my answer to wine.. Its great but shouldnt be treated as the best and only option. If you keep depending on it then you will always be dependant on microsofts standards... linux as a community will always trail behind microsoft with gaming if we depend on wine and If people dont want it try and understand why, They are simply looking ahead.

[zuzuzzzip]

I totally agree with you on this but it is, like you say, a long road ...
I think the best thing the community could do, and I'm talking linux- and OpenGL-community, is have some people focusing on this. Trying to make OpenGL stand out more, let the business know we need games in OpenGL and not only DirectX, ...
But this has nothing to do with 'Gubuntu' actually ...

Alot of gamers like linux, because a lot of gamers are into Computer Science too but, obviously, they all miss (most of) their games in linux :/ And they are not so few, their voice should be heard! And as I said best way is some community coordinating this.

[syn`]

I'm syn` and I support this thread.

[nuno0351]

Just providing my vote of support. One of the reasons I haven't given up on Win completely is due to games.. Like it or not it is THE gaming platform!

I agree that Gubuntu should be more then just emulation via wine etc, and it should focus on supporting OpenGL games. After all, the first successful 3D accelerated games ran under Glide from 3DFX whic was a OpenGL based API (if memory serves me correctly, this was back in the 90's). It will also need to have clearly defined standards for sound, gaming devices etc. Installation of titles will have to be as easy or easier then Windows, perhaps leveraging APT to create a Steam like system where games can be downloaded overnight, just add the developers repositories and if you like the game, purchase and register it. This would also provide a standard way of keeping the game patched etc.

The biggest hurdle will be attracting gamers and developers to this new platform. It's the old riddle of what comes first, the chicken or the egg? Gamers don't move to Linux due to lack of good commercial games, and developers don't develop good commercial games for Linux due to the lack of gamers!
Perhaps Gubuntu could leverage the upcoming DirectX support in VMware Player/Server 2.0 to run existing Windows games under the Linux platform.
Yes I know it's emulation, but it's like the first (and current) 64 bit CPUs being able to run 32 bit code. If AMD had not done that, we would not have the amount of 64 bit OS/code that we have today, because no one would have bought those CPUs.
Attract them with good emulation for existing games and keep them with a better performing platform.

So we get Gubuntu to run current Windows titles via DirectX VM in a optimized fashion and once more gamers are on board, developers won't be able to keep ignoring the fact that there is demand for native Linux games.

Games for Linux! :-)
Just my $.02

Good luck.

[Global_Inferno]

Like everyone else, I too, support this idea and would be very keen to try it out should a version ever be created. (Although better software RAID support on the CD would be a plus, as a lot of gamers use it!)

[deputy]

I too support an Ubuntu version for games. I think it should first focus on getting WINE to work with popular games, and then add support for DirectX

[The Spy]

I am see both sides of this forum. There are those who want to still play their Windows games (I being one of them), and those like tretle who want to increase the amount of native Linux games, which I also agree with. But I think that the game developers need to be challenged, meaning we let them know that we want the games that are currently only available on Windows, and sometimes Mac OS. To do this we need to show them that there is a demand for their games for Linux gamers. Using Wine will not do this, but creating Linux games will ,if nothing else, let them know that there is some sort of competitor in the gaming world. A petition might help as well.

[ondo311]

I'm all for, I'm tired of spending hours looking for the right commands and installing multiple programs to run my games. I have been forced into linux recently and want to play these games so... yes Gubuntu is the best idea yet.

I'd have multiple Wine-Like programs, i.e. wine (duh), playonlinux, wine-doors, wineXS
-This way everyone is happy

Preloaded scripts
-This would be cool, not really necessary though, just have a site where you can download scripts, this will keep the distro size smaller

Preloaded 3D Drivers:
-Necessary, any serious gammer will need these.. opensource of course

And like inigmatus said in the third post some sort of smart configuration script for graphics and sound would be cool (kinda hits with the 3D drivers


Thats all i gotta say bout that! peace

[The Spy]

Nothing would please me more than going to buy a game, and seeing Linux alongside Windows and Mac on the System Requirements' operating system.

[Achetar]

I'm totally for it! But i cannot help develop much, I could help test though

[The Spy]

Same here Achetar. I can't help much in developing, but I've got some ideas that I want to throw at people, and see if they can get them to work.
I think this thread is dying. It must be revived!

[vijaym]

I like the idea of native games for linux.
This is although I don't really have time to play games that much.
But I don't like using wine or other 'emulator' type programmes.
I also don't like using windows although my system is set up as a dual boot for convenience with clients hardware like data projectors and printers etc.

I can't help with developing but can test though

[Enverex]

I like the idea of native games for linux.
This is although I don't really have time to play games that much.
But I don't like using wine or other 'emulator' type programmes.
I also don't like using windows although my system is set up as a dual boot for convenience with clients hardware like data projectors and printers etc.

I can't help with developing but can test though

You make it sound like you have to use "Gabuntu" for Linux native games and that it would be different than any other distro....

[Mehashi]

I think very much that this is a great idea!

A Gamers ubuntu would help me get many of my friends away from windows, but i predict only if it became easier to play/use the games and software they had become endeared to.

Change is always good but an Ubuntu that allowed you to play some of the more advanced closed-source games too would be great!

I love my ubuntu (Thanks Guys!) but sometimes I still feel a bit left behind in the gaming capabilities.

There is always an appeal to some when something is labelled 'for gamers' as well...
^_^

[SebastianMcK]

I was wondering why cant you enable windows games to be played on Linux? I mean Windows coded there system to reconisge them, why cant linux?

[ad_267]

It's not that windows coded their system to recognise the games, it's that the game programmers coded their games to work on windows. A lot of games use DirectX which is closed source and by microsoft, only games using OpenGL have a chance of being easily ported to Linux or Unix.

Edit: And anyone looking for a great open source game for Linux should check out VegaStrike, the version from the repositories is very old though so I recommend downloading the latest SVN and compiling it. http://vegastrike.sourceforge.net/

[The Spy]

Is there a way to create a program that works like DirectX, but isn't?
I mean if it can be done... Microsoft may make a stick about it, but oh well.

[ad_267]

Is there a way to create a program that works like DirectX, but isn't?
I mean if it can be done... Microsoft may make a stick about it, but oh well.

I think wine already does this. I'm not sure how well it works though, I'm not that much into gaming and am quite happy just playing an open source game every now and then.

[d3adp00l]

whether a gaming version of ubuntu or a package to add the things commonly needed for gaming to any ubuntu either and both would be great. As far as the public creating the interest for the people who can do such things, thats not going to happen, its putting the cart before the horse. Remember in the way back machine, it wasn't people jumping up and down for games that got computer gaming into the world, it was the fact that someone made a game, and people showed others who had never seen it before, and then they wanted it. Games have to be made, and then offered and then people will start to use them, if they know about them. Until that happens everyone will continue to use what is already available, microsoft. The biggest reason I see dual booters is because of games, people want to be able to play every now and again, and its only easiely possible with windows, and if some chimes in with "well its easy in linux too" I'll laugh at them. Easy for some is not so easy for others, and fact is, you pop in a disk, install, reboot, and then play with windows, there is no searching the net for hacks, apps or anything else to MAKE a game work. I for one know that if linux coders started making games for linux, not only would that games take oof, but so would linux. Linux has all the advantages here, many games have been writen, story lines and concepts are already there, market data is present for types of games people like, all someone has to do is make a really good looking fun game for linux, and watch what happens, it would explode, but waiting for the people to "sign a petition" to show interest in games before starting this process, is like waiting for the cart when you won't let the horse past you.

[Mehashi]

I agree with d3adp00l!
The biggest reason I see dual booters is because of games, people want to be able to play every now and again, and its only easiely possible with windows, and if some chimes in with "well its easy in linux too" I'll laugh at them. Easy for some is not so easy for others, and fact is, you pop in a disk, install, reboot, and then play with windows, there is no searching the net for hacks, apps or anything else to MAKE a game work.
I have dual boot ubuntu / xp and I feel like a heretic whenever I boot into xp! But until I can progress further up the learning curve (waaaaay further) I cant begin to tackle games on linux. And I have tried. But Drivers <Ah!> they never seem to work for me. Im happy to learn and feel I have learnt alot in the past month or so running 7.10 but I do feel swamped in code and I still havent got any games to work outside of linux natives.

all someone has to do is make a really good looking fun game for linux, and watch what happens, it would explode, but waiting for the people to "sign a petition" to show interest in games before starting this process, is like waiting for the cart when you won't let the horse past you.
Although I think it misleading to say 'all' you have to do, I still agree with this. If I could get a linux game, that still had graphics to make me proud of my machine, and gameplay to come back to I would gladly leave windows altogether. A MMOFPS to replace Counterstrike source, and A highly tactical RTS to replace total annihilation would do it for me. But the rts's I have played so far on my machine make me feel like i'm using and old pentium II for graphics and simplicity of gameplay. (I know total annihilations graphics are like this but the gameplay makes up for that).

As for the horse and Cart business, I dont doubt for a second that there are many people out there who would support this, but waitng for them to say so first seems daft. Its only because ubuntu had things, then i found out about them, used them, and moved to ubuntu. Had those things been 'awaiting approval' I may have still been using windows now.

I have only been using ubuntu for a short time, but would gladly help in any way I could, as I think would others. I have done graphic design work and photo-editing, I would be willing to learn new skills too, and i'm sure others are the same. I still think a Gubuntu would be great, but so would a great linux native game (Open source).
^_^

[The Spy]

have dual boot ubuntu / xp and I feel like a heretic whenever I boot into xp!

The same goes for me. Like I´ve said before, The only reason I still use XP is because I can´t game on Ubuntu.
I think a bunch of people need to form together, and try to get a game developer to start creating games that run on Linux. New games! Just like any that are on Windows. Something that will catch peoples attention, and (hopefully) make the other game developing companies see that there is a market in creating games for Linux.
The reason I think a game developing company would do better than a bunch of Linux nerds is, that it will have a bigger voice than a small, unorganized group of people.

[d3adp00l]

I vote for a mechwarrior type game:)

[The Spy]

I vote for a mechwarrior type game.
That was one of my favorite games when I first started playing games on a PC.

[Hoods]

this is a good idea.:)

[The Spy]

Yeah, it just doesn't seem to be getting anywhere. Anyone have any more ideas for "Gubuntu".

[tretle]

To all the Direct X and wine fans here :D
Direct X and wine are not essential to linux's success in the gaming market. Open GL does just as good a job. Dont believe me? go and check whether Sony needed to use Direct X in the PS3, Nintendo in the Wii. Try and imagine how successful they would be if they relied on "xwine":D an xbox360 emulator so you can play your xbox games on your ps3 or wii. Get over the initial slump of wine and get over the fact you are no longer using windows.
Rather than constantly playing catchup try and help get linux into the lead:D

PS. IMHO enough words have been said. Anyone that has read the thread from start to finish will understand the concepts raised and also the conflicting opinions. There is no point in starting this until it is feasible to do so, and right now it is not. Telepathy-Tubes has not reached maturity, and neither has elisa media center. It is to my understanding that a repo has been set up for games. Would be nice to use tracker to create a simple game browser for ubuntu and this would be the best starting point. Everything has to start from somewhere. You cant just try and start all of the components to a project like this all at once.

[The Spy]

Alright! Screw DirectX and Wine. But where will we--the native Linux gamers--start? I know there are games for Linux out there, but (for me at least) they are difficult to install, at least the cool ones.

P.S. Has anyone heard of a game called Drakan for Linux? And have you installed it?

[nutpants]

i am all for a gaming Ubuntu..

but thats is not what is needed..

what is needed is people to develop games.
games with new ideas..
that play only in linux.
that are not open source (or it will be ported to windows and defeat the purpose of creating the game)

as they say..
build it and they will come
build a better mouse trap and the world is yours.

there are enough game engines in linux to mod that there should be many more excellent games.
quake2, quake3, unreal 2000-2004, torque engine, and others..

sadly most game built for linux are about as good as what was made for windows 4 years ago.
(other than stuff from id software and epic)
a recent release i played had a GREAT story line GREAT idea good maps, but lacked in gameplay and graphics (but i will not name them, because even as a poorly looking game it plays well)
no i dont expect an opensource group to compete with a major gaming company

but i expect more people to take advantage of the software out there to create single and multi player mods just for linux.
create a great game with the quake 2 engine or the quake 3 engine that only works on linux.

as for wine..
wine works great. seems faster then windows for everything i tried it on. with luck it will be solid in final (and it will work with pulse audio 100%)
but for every game that works with wine that is one less game somebody wants to port to linux.
look at half-life
there was a huge outcry for a linux version when it came out
no one cared about half life 2 for linux because wine ran it quite well.

what any gubuntu group would have to do is work night and day make as many linux games work in it (like shogo-linux or security sad quake 2, or kingpin life of crime or others that worked with linux WAY BACK when but broke dependencies after) many of these games have been abandoned but would find a home in linux if they still ran or were remade with better engines.i cant run quake3 or RTCWolfenstien out of the box anymore with out fiddling with sound or library's..

so that anyone who left windows would not have to dual boot to play games,and would not care if "directX 10" only runs in windows vista

but is all that work worth it?

sure it is..
someone has to do it..
and make the game developers take notice.
wish i knew how
nutz

[rudihawk]

Yeah, that would be great if that would happen. But think times are a changing...

I am all for a "Gubuntu!

[g00dbar]

I vote in full support of this conceptual release or gamer-friendly hardy updates.
Maybe included/preinstalled an emulator for older game types as well as enhanced Wine and gamepad configuration settings.
Enhanced support for nVidia and ATI higher-end graphics card support/drivers that would give more control over graphics memory, multisampling, anti-aliasing, etc is another idea.
I dunno, everyone has had good ideas so far.

[eragon100]

Great Idea, but it already exists.

It's called ubuntu ultimate gamers edition. How to get it?

Simple: go to http://www.ultimateedition.info and download ultimate edition 1.8. (1.3 GB)

Install, and after installing video drivers (codecs shipped out of the box),
click the "ultimate upgrade" icon on your desktop. Choose gamers edition as your upgrade path and you're done! :)

[g00dbar]

Wow cool, thanks! =)

[The Spy]

Maybe Included/preinstalled An Emulator For Older Game Types As Well As Enhanced wine And Gamepad Configuration Settings.
no Wine!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[eragon100]

Yes, WINE should definitely be included out of the box, as well as emulators for consoles such as the nintende 64 and sega saturn, Would be a nice addition for a gamers distro :popcorn:

[The Spy]

No Wine, and I'll tell you why. I believe that the point of making a gaming Ubuntu or Linux distro is to promote Native Linux Gaming. Games that can only be played on Linux. If Wine is included in the distro then what is the point? Yea, I guess if you have to have your Windows games then you can install Wine through the repositories, but it shouldn't be included in the actual release of Ubuntu.

Yea, I love a lot of the games that play on Windows and Mac OS X, but those games need competition from us Linux gamers. Eventually, if there is enough of a demand those Windows games might be ported over to Linux, but only if there is the market for it. That market wont come if we are just emulating Windows on Linux.

[WeeWoh]

Im for it totally. WINE should be included by default and so should propertary drivers (I cant spell but you get the idea) Make the games open source! That is the point of Linux, you will damage the reputation if you get all Microsoft like that.

No demos though, they are just bloatware. Keep it to free Open Source Software and let people install demos by themselves.

[Naiki Muliaina]

I agree with those saying no to Wine. Spy says it best.

For a short list of good games (1 or 2 of each genre of the top of my head):

RTS - Glest & Warzone 2100

FPS - Open Arena, Alien Arena & Nexuiz

RPG - Scourge & Ardentryst (released yet?)

Racing - Extreme Tux Racer, Vdrift, TORCS (torcs crashes me, dunno how good it is for everyone else)

Sport - Eat the Whistle & Stoned

MMO - Second Life (modern cross platform), Dofus (i like it ^^), & 2 other indie MMO's (havent played many other MMO's on linux)

Puzzle Games - Pingus & Frozen Bubble 2

Misc - Breakout & Supertux (the mario like one?)

In addition to this include demos for Quakes and a few other commercial games (if distibuting demos is allowed).

I like the UE link eragon100 :-) Do you run that edition yourself?

[myromance123]

Im definitely all for this~ If there was an ubuntu just for gaming, that would rock !!

What I believe it should have would be:
1.Most working emulators pre-installed
2.Modified engine to support all game cds/dvds/hds/blu-rays
3.Most online-game programs(like gamespy or battlenet) configurations ready
4.The ability to run in-game movie scenes/cut scenes.
5.Drivers and software for most controllers (increase compatibility)
6.Graphics card all around compatibility (a must for successful game distro)
7.Wine configured/programmed just for game support(if possible)

Also, just a thought, but a pre-installed linux game maker would do great as well.

Im just an ubuntu newbie, but i believe these would make such a distro successful (since I was a previous xp gamer~) :)

Sorry if I offended/went over the line/was too newbish, just giving my ideas on the matter.

[HappyHenry]

Oh yes!!! A gamers distro of Ubuntu would be great for, not only gamers but Linux in general. The reason I hear most often, from folks who dual boot Linux with Windows is, some game.
If a Distro was built that allowed multi games to be played, "right out of the box," I think Ubuntu/Linux would get a big influx of interest from outside current users as well as game developers. If Linux/Ubuntu ever could get a good reputation for gameing, well, thats a BIG market share!!! It would be great news that i am sure would be all over the net and news mags the second a stable version was released.
Also, the point, MYROMANCE123 made above, "pre-installed linux game maker," is an awsome idea. Im am convinced every serious gamer would love to make, "a better game." So I really think more folks would start working with linux and discover its benefits and spread the news as well as games.
I dont think a packaged emulator is a must have. They would still depend on windows files and I dont think we serve Linux best interest in pre-packaging dependency on a poor OS like windows. If we could do away with any dependency on windows and just get a distro of Ubuntu out that remains GPL and has multi games in it with a "game maker" program, we would be making a giant step towards getting Linux over a hurdle in the publics idea of what it is. A lot of folks still see Linux as a geek toy and they dont want to learn package management etc. We can serve both sectors of people, the point and click crowd with installed games ready to play in the distro as well as the sector that wants to push the envelope and develop some games. With an emulator that is not GPL, then there is no way to distribute it free and games developed with it may also have dependency issues and stop them from being distributed. Any emulator is trying to make linux act like some other OS, kinda shoots the purpose of Linux in the foot, so to say.

It a win-win, more users, more programmers, more games, more news = more Ubuntu!!!

I am on board with this!!! I am a graphic artist and will do anything helpful toward getting this going. shoot me an email here and let me know if the project can use any art work, illustrations, graphics etc. Thanks.

[HappyHenry]

Like usual I speak before i listen. Okay I read through every post on this thread, this concept really is fantastic. Ill check out the claim of an "already gamers Ubuntu," later I have a hard time believing its really there like we have talked about here.
It seems the main issues are
Inclued emulators: or not and the problems those two choices bring.
With emulators we are just making a gaming consol. Is that what we want? It will never be GPL cause all those companies you want to inclued in your emulator will want some profit in the form of CASH.
Without emulators: GPL enough said.
Maybe we could break this thread into two different interest. One thread, this one stays on track with a Linux/Ubuntu distro that is, "will always be free..." and the other thread could continue on the path of a windows limp-along distro
Another issue seems to be a chicken or egg thing. Do we need a game browser, flashy gui or develope great games first.
Game browser first: shoot why not. It would get all our vision on what we currently have all in the same place.
Flashy GUI, well thats a little too subjective. I hate x360 interface and my x360 sits in the corner as a paper weight because the user interface sucks so bad, IMO. So the GUI i think would serve or purpose, of ease of use for gamers, should focus on simplicity. They (windonts addicts) put up with windows booting for crying out loud, surely a simple direct GUI is a small step to reach that game. The game is where the flashy comes in.
The last issue i see is the games. It seems we are looking back and should be looking forward. People keep saying things like, "i want to play.." what ever was hot yesterday. What if we look forward and say, "what is possible with linux now that we could compile and develope into something as easier to use and more exciting to experience by sight sound input than anything Linux or any OS has ever done???" Then we stop trying to play catch-up with the history of other OS and develope into something NEW!
I would really like to see this thread split in two. One with the vision of Ubuntu becoming better AS an LINUX gaming operating system. The other thread all those who want to make a generic gaming consol.
Please feel free to attack, support this idea. We cant get this off the ground without a united vision and right now we have strong visions on both side of that fence and everyone is intitled to there view but we cant both be on the same project they are seperate ideas and cant work together.

[HappyHenry]

Great Idea, but it already exists.

It's called ubuntu ultimate gamers edition. How to get it?

Simple: go to http://www.ultimateedition.info and download ultimate edition 1.8. (1.3 GB)

Install, and after installing video drivers (codecs shipped out of the box),
click the "ultimate upgrade" icon on your desktop. Choose gamers edition as your upgrade path and you're done! :)

Wow this looks great!!! Im going to burn a DVD and try it. LOL I wont be posting any more on this thread until i check it out. Seems to fit the bill. Im surprised this original post wasn't talked much about here. This seems like what we are talking about. If you find different please post the differences. Ill be back after i give it a run.

[coolglobal]

My vote is: Ubuntu base, long list of 5 star native linux games only with fluxbox or openbox.

Where can I download this dream distro?

[coolglobal]

if you want to use windows software so much use windows. that simple people. linux isnt the cheap alternative. enough said.\

i agree

[webdr]

http://www.kwadrix.com/

I went the HSLUG Install Fest in May '08 and was introduced to this
ubuntu based gamer distro live dvd.

Myself and the kids love it.
I'd gush on and on, what good would it go? Go check it out.

[Sef]

http://www.kwadrix.com/

The download page says this:

Downloads
Download latest version:
Bittorrent:

Taken offline due to possible license issues.

[Valok]

At the moment the only thing keeping me away from Ubuntu is how much time it takes to get games working on it. I am a gamer first and foremost, and as such windows has simply worked out better thus far. However, if there were a distro just for gamers it would def bring me right back to Ubuntu in a heartbeat.

[HappyHenry]

http://www.kwadrix.com/

I went the HSLUG Install Fest in May '08 and was introduced to this
ubuntu based gamer distro live dvd.

Myself and the kids love it.
I'd gush on and on, what good would it go? Go check it out.

Sorry its been taken off line because of, as they put it, "licensing issues"
I still havent tried running the distro I posted.:oops:

[Raleford]

I think some people might be only reading some of the posts and getting confused about where this could go. "An Ubuntu for Gamers" doesn't mean it'd be a cure-all for gaming issues. It won't magically make linux play Halo or other Windows games natively, and the point isn't for a novelty "gaming version" of linux, which glorifies the history of gaming (glorious though it is) by allowing you, through various means, to play every game ever created. Going off from someone's comparison, it would be like making a version of PS3 which can run xbox or gamecube games. That's really not the direction I'm seeing this project going, at least, depending on whose side you're looking at. As before stated, there's kind of two camps here, and they shouldn't be arguing in this one thread, but just going their own ways.

The novelty package idea is neat, it's like the "know your mushrooms" mario shirts you can get (by the way, I LOVE novelty t-shirts... a lot, haha), and if someone knows how to package it, go for it, I'm sure there'll be lots of people who would use it (my brother for instance, though he had a lot of trouble getting Ubuntu to work on his laptop (as in, it doesn't work at all) loves emulators for all kinds of things. He plays Ocarina of time on his lappy all the time, and has had all kinds of nes, gameboy etc emulators) This is the side that is about Wine and all those other similar apps.

However, the other camp is where it appears the people with programming knowledge (it appears) are at. It's the Tretle side of things, seeing as he's probably the most out-spoken. This idea is not about making a gamer nirvana, so much as making a Linux front-end gamer tool. The project idea has already been compared to a console, and that's not a bad comparison. It's a completely different interface, but with ideas for more integration than that. It'll be an environment which isn't bothered with programs not used for gaming, not about emulating old games either, but which is sleek and powerful in application.
-Low system usage for speed, and a quick boot-up;
-great compatibility with hardware, in an easy-to-get/configure package;
-make it easy to download/install games;
-also, the proposed online community features--it sounds to me like something based on the same principles as xbox-live or psn, or like the managers within certain games which lets you choose which server to go on, only with all supported games at once instead of just the one game you are playing;
-create some kind of uniformity that PC gaming in general lacks, and especially linux lacks (gaming or no) that is found in consoles by their very nature, thus making it easier for developers to make games for linux

Those seem to me the goals that this project is heading for, at least by those who appear to be doing to most towards it. I'm not saying there isn't a place for the other direction, that's the basis of open source, if you want something to go a certain direction, go that direction. free as in speech. granted you have to know how to program... but that's just a little thing right? ;) And yes, this biggest thing is still needing games, but this is like the new console that has a couple games of it's own already, but it can't really take off until some third-party developers jump in, but they won't jump in until they see potential.

As to needing developers to make some awesome games that only run linux, I don't think that would be where we want to go, as that's basically the same kind of tactic Microsoft uses to keep this market, and the reason that so many hardcore linuxers hate microsoft. The GNU License and Open Source are not about winning a market share, or getting the most users, they are about the freedom of choice. If you're going to base your OS on a principle like that, then it would completely undermine the whole thing to make a linux-only game. I think doing like ID and Epic and having a Linux version of a game (just as you might have a xbox AND Playstaion AND Wii version of a game) and the developers seeing that people do buy it would suffice. In fact, if windows users are playing a game that they really like then when they are being persuaded to try linux by their friends and then find, "hey, you can play that game on linux too? It's faster and you can talk to your friends online while you play like on xbox?!" then they're more likely to try than, "hey, dude, you should try linux and this game that you can only play on linux. you can talk to your friends online at the same time too, just like xbox" and the friends replies "ya, but what is that game? I've never heard of it, and I already have an xbox, so why do I need an xbox imitation game?"

alright, I'm going to stop now, as this post is already super long, and I can feel it getting less and less coherent the longer I type, haha.

[Markissocoollike]

its a good idea but I dought id want to reinstall ubuntu again after taking so long to learn everything and I find using wine, winetools and virtualbox with seamless virtualization to conquer my problem with running any of the programs i normally use, if you made it like windows except without any of the installation rubbish and bugs then you'd probably have yourself a decent os but if it requires some kind of software like wine to run window games then there wouldn't be any point it would just be exactly like the other ubuntus out there.

Also what would be great if you could get things like dreamweaver working and perhaps maybe even tutorials on how to change things like how it boots which comes with the installation...
Basically my suggestion is to make linux into windows (without the bugs) but don't start saying linux isn't windows because basically if you are wanting it to run games for windows then you'd have to make it windows compatible but without wine and thats the tricky part!

I'm all for the idea but if it turns out just to be another version of ubuntu that needs wine to work then its not worth the effort to make the kernel anyway, maybe Gubuntu in my opinion it should be called wubuntu- An Ubuntu for window users :lolflag: but i don't know gubuntu has a nice ring to it plus wubuntu sounds a bit silly to me ^^

[The Spy]

Thank you Raleford.
This Linux distro will need something to give windows users a reason to at least try it out and see if they like it. The Xbox live chat sounds like a nice feature, but I do see where you are coming from Raleford with the "Xbox imitation", and a game that no one but current linux gamers has heard of.
Maybe a linux-only game is not the answer to get people to notice Linux as an OS that is capable of games, but there must be some incentive for people to leave XP behind, and embrace Linux as their gaming OS.

As for the name. Not Wubuntu! No offense, but the idea is to get away from Windows. Gubuntu works for me.

Also, many are complaining about having this be another Ubuntu distro, but it can't really be anything but that. If it is an "add-on" as-it-were to Ubuntu that would sort of defeat the purpose of it. If it was its own distro then it could be optimized specifically for gaming. There wouldn't be anything to slow the system down unnecessarily. I do think that there should be some basic things such as, Word processors, and the like, but I guess a small text editor would suffice.

The Ultimate Edition distro is completely bloated. I was appalled at how much crap was install on that system out-of-box. It has to be burned on to a DVD, but there is absolutely no reason for it to be that big. If I remember correctly it was just over one Gig.

I think that we need to start gathering a number of programmers that are willing to give this a try. I would really like to get rid of my Windows partition. And the sooner that this distribution (or whatever it becomes) is out, the sooner I, along with may others I think, can ditch Windows for good.

[R.E.A.D001]

i think a gubuntu would be a great idea because the only reason i still force my computer to boot into windoze is because of the large amount of native games for it :guitar:

[R.E.A.D001]

i no that this is way off topic but for the last 4 days ive been trying to find a download link for the wofenstein GOTY edition but with no success and im desperate for any help thx in advance ](*,)

[sinaen]

Dead thread?
It sounded awesome to have a native distribution of linux/ubuntu to handle games.

four things you have chosen wisely

1. a stripped down gui
2. wine-compatability
3. open-source linux games.
4. Graphics card support.

what no-one have talked about is the media-compatability plus the media-storage compatability. its to be taken into consideration.

I do not really know more to say, but that i hope youll pull it throug.. :)

[Ethyrdude]

After wading through the first 17 or so pages I have read enough and need to put in my two cents (there's at least a dime's worth in here by now). First of all, another version of Ubuntu? I'm already laughing at Mubuntu and Kubuntu and whatever elsebuntu (Please tell me there's a Flubuntu, Fluxbox and Ubuntu) so yes lets make a Gubuntu and really confuse everyone else.

We do need more games to attract gamers to Linux. We don't need another Ubuntu, somebody said to include 3d set up at the install, well it's already available under Hardware Drivers Manager, at least it was for me. People who have already made the switch to Linux are not going to switch to Gubuntu just because it's a gaming version (almost said distro, which it isn't) of Ubuntu (That's the distro).

Games under Wine and VMware, if I want to play Windows games I will put Windows on a computer and run them. I do not use MS products (I'm not afraid to use the term Microsoft because I'm not saying anything untrue) because I don't like their prices, I can find all the non gaming software that I need available for free as long as I use it noncommercially and it happens to be available for Linux which happens to be my OS of choice.

There are already a number of good Linux games available, some are good enough to go commercial and some I would actually buy if only available that way. What we really need to get people to start noticing Linux is a game that's so awesome, everyone will want to play it and if it's only available under Linux. Just look at the previews of Diablo 3, that's the kind of game quality that is going to make people want to switch.

Edit: I want to apologize for my comment about Kubuntu etc., I do see the elegance of it, and it does have a certain logic. No need to go wading through page after page of dependancies when installing a particular Desktop/Window manager. And I was serious about wanting to find a flubuntu, fluxbox is still my fav with enlightment a close second.

[sinaen]

I do not quote you cause it was to long.

You have a nice point,

If we where to fix that games was better supported or more noticed then many would be interested to try linux, but how to go "commercial" with open-source games?

Why not promote linux to game developer studios that they can make a version for their games to linux
get a turn around to make game software companys to promote linux clients. to make linux a trustworthy operating system for game developers and gamers. :)

and how to make that then?
Maybe youll have to have a great convention where mass linux boxes are to try different games: Sauerbraten, Open Arena and others.

Here i found a link to free fps games, and free graphical engines (both windows and linux)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_free_first-person_shooters

What game developers dont like is to have to use opensource and gpl that makes them not to be able to charge too much for their work.

But its a major start! i think its a very good idea i have here.. :):guitar:

[The Spy]

We don't need another Ubuntu

Yes, I see your point Ethyrdude. There are many ...buntu's out there. And making another would just add to the chaos. That was a thought that I had in the back of my mind.

Why do we need another Ubuntu version?

One thing is that this "version" of Ubuntu will be optimized, made, and programmed specifically for games. None of the other stuff that comes out-of-box on the other versions, with the exception of a text editor, and possibly a word processor as I've said before. As of right now I see no other way of having a dedicated Linux distro. Unless there is some way to download somethings onto Ubuntu (Kubuntu, etc.) that optimize the computer for gaming.

By the way, thank you for being a non-Wine person, Ethyrdude.

[Ethyrdude]

The only wine I want is red and comes in a bottle.

[rastari]

+1

[ooobuntooo]

Lightweight desktop. E.g. IceWM.
Wine or Cedgea
Drivers etc.. already installed.
Native Linux games.
Alienware style theme.

[The Spy]

The only wine I want is red and comes in a bottle.

I agree, even though I don't drink the stuff.

Lightweight desktop.

Yes a light weight desktop would be nice, or a least something that is just bloating up the OS. I don't see what's wrong with GNOME though. It's basic, and yet cool and easy to use.

[Ethyrdude]

Light is the way to go, why load up a ton of programs if all you want to do is play games. You probably do want a nice friendly and attractive interface to start your games, be it icons or menus but I can't see the need for a lot of other bells and whistles. I can't even see the need for more than one desktop either. Gnome is almost as heavy as Kde now with compiz installed so perhaps something similar to Xfce if you do want a desktop manager but why bother if you can get away with a simple windows manager?

[The Spy]

Yeah, I see your point. I do agree that there shouldn't be any "extra" things, or a least very few. But it depends on if this is going to be another version of Ubuntu or a configuration or something like that.
As I've mentioned before, I think a good interface would be something like Elisa media center or eAR media center. Very basic and simple to use, and yet cool to look at.

P.S. Xfce would be a good window manager. I haven't used it much, but from what I've seen it looks alot like Gnome.

[Naiki Muliaina]

XFCE has some minor inbuilt compiz effects. None of which effect ATI cards with Open GL. so it can be made to look a bit prettier without sacrificing memory / open GL like ubuntu + compiz would. Menus are a little harder to edit. Xubuntu feels massively bloated to me, so if you use XFCE dont go down the Xubuntu route. Theres a discussion of ubuntu+XFCE vs Xubuntu in the other OS forum if you want the read.