What are the ultimate features of Vista that Ubuntu needs?

[motin]

Here is the Vista feature list (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/features/details/accessibility.mspx) - What are the 4-5 features where MS is miles most ahead of Ubuntu in terms of creating and maintaining their strong userbase according to you?

Summary of first 11 pages (up to post #103):
Feature (Votes)
- Drivers / Hardware vendors partnerships incl. solid printer, mobile phones, dvd, wireless support etc (8)
- Gaming / Direct X Support (7)
- Great Tablet PC integration/support (4)
- Speech Recognition (3)
- Internet Explorer 7 or 6sp2 for home-banking etc (2)
- Full ACPI implementation (spin-down, hibernate, suspend, etc) (2)
- Unified implementation of features (1)
- Enterprise features (1)
- Easy configuration of displays (1)
- ReadyBoost (1)
- Ability to use all Windows-compatible applications (1)
- Out-of-the-box faxing capabilities (1)
- Media Center that unifies media/tv watching, CD burning etc (1)
- Keyring manager that doesn't prompt for user password upon every boot (1)
- Video Chat support (1)
- Windows Desktop Search (1)

The Vista feature list:
Accessibility
Basic File Backup and Restore
BitLocker Drive Encryption
Built-in Diagnostics
DirectX 10
Encrypting File System
Explorers
Fast Sleep and Resume
Flip and Flip 3D
Games Explorer
Instant Search
Internet Explorer 7 in Windows Vista
Internet Explorer 7 Printing
Internet Explorer 7 Tabbed Browsing
Internet Explorer Dynamic Security Protection
Internet Explorer Parental Controls
Internet Explorer Protected Mode
Live Icons
Microsoft Phishing Filter in Internet Explorer
Network and Sharing Center
Network Diagnostics and Troubleshooting
Networking
Parental Controls
Performance
Photo Gallery
Remote Access
Remote Desktop Connection
Search & Organization
Search Folders
Self-Healing System
Shadow Copy
Speech Recognition
SuperFetch
Sync Center
Tablet PC Support
User Account Control
Welcome Center
Windows Aero
Windows Calendar
Windows Complete PC Backup and Restore
Windows Defender
Windows DVD Maker
Windows Easy Transfer
Windows Fax and Scan
Windows Firewall
Windows Mail
Windows Media Center
Windows Media Player 11
Windows Meeting Space
Windows Mobility Center
Windows Movie Maker
Windows ReadyBoost
Windows Security Center
Windows Sidebar and Gadgets
Windows SideShow
Windows Update
Wireless Networking

If you are up to it - you may want to give your opinion on these threads as well:
- What are the ultimate features of OS X that Ubuntu needs? (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=409722)
- What are the ultimate features of Ubuntu that neither Vista nor OS X has? (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=409720)

DISCLAIMER: Note that I do NOT believe copycating Apple or MS is a good or even possible way to go. IMO Linux should never aim at going the same path as other OS vendors have and instead keep focused on making Linux better in whatever ways Linux users want. At the same time, a broader feature list that attracts userbase and thus in the end more power/possibilites for the Linux development is needed as well. Since Apple and MS are the current masters of collecting and maintaining a strong userbase - we need to define in what ways we can focus our efforts to efficiently increase ours.

[BoneKracker]

There are open source alternatives to all of these features that are superior. What is lacking is a unified implementation. That comes with tradeoffs (loss of "freedom" -- dictating what users must use, etc.).

What's not listed there are enterprise features like policy management, systems management, etc. That's a big area for GNU/Linux to improve. So far, those solutions are proprietary.

You talk about Ubuntu, but I think Ubuntu would like to remain aligned with the FreeDesktop and GNU and Debian, and Xorg and all the other many many organizations and engines of creativity that produce 99% of the value that comes in an instance of Ubuntu.

So unless you advocate taking Ubuntu completely off on a tangent (like building another MacOS X), your analysis might be better served to focus on the larger picture.

[3rdalbum]

Support for Internet Explorer 7.

[insane_alien]

Direct X support is lacking in linux but thats because it a MS propriety thing and there is nothing it can do that opengl can't we just need the developers to switch over.

[alexvd]

I would like to see better tablet pc support. I know that you can get use wacom tools, tabatha, xandros and gok. However the vista tablet pc is really a better implementation. For instance the Vista on screen keyboard is very clean and sized properly for the screen. It also has handwriting recognition. Everything works out of the box.

[M$LOL]

DX is the only thing we don't have an equivalent for that works just as well (few devs use OGL because of M$' monopoly, so OGL isn't as widely used as DX, we need a good DX implementation), everything else has a Linux opensource alternative. IE7 sucks, I have it installed on an XP machine and it's so damn slow. FF is a million times better.

[Sunnz]

Wireless support.

Ok, I know, at the driver level it is not Linux's fault, and Ubuntu's driver are getting better.

But there are issues beyond drivers.

I have built a Xubuntu box for a relative sometime ago, I have set up the wireless to automatically connect to the router and everything works 'out of the box' for her. Since I built the box, I had total control of what goes into the box, so I can choose FLOSS friendly stuff in there, no problem with drivers here.

Today, "the internet is gone away", reported by my relative. I logged in to the wireless router, nothings wrong on my side, so I called the ISP.

As an usual diagnostic, I was told to turn off the router and turn it back on again, then well, I was not able to connect to the router anymore.

I tried to do the simplest thing, reboot. Nope, still doesn't connect, fine, I log in to the terminal and do wpa_supplicant and successfully connected back to the router. And this is where the problem lies, on Vista, you don't even have to reboot the computer, you just use the wireless applet and reconnect it. But the Linux, even though I have set up wpa_supplicant to connect automatically on boot, a reboot doesn't do it, doesn't matter for me since I can just do it through the terminal, but I can't imagine having my relative to do it!!!

[BoneKracker]

Yeah, I guess I would add: "drivers" in general.

I know this should get better as the desktop linux user base grows, but we do need hardware vendors to produce quality drivers for their hardware in a timely manner.

[motin]

Current standings:

Feature (Votes)
- Direct X Support (2)
- Unified implementation of features (1)
- Enterprise features (1)
- Internet Explorer 7 (1)
- Great Tablet PC integration (1)
- Wireless support (1)
- Drivers / Hardware vendor partnerships (1)

Surely we have more opinions?

[LaRoza]

As a user of Ubuntu and Vista, I can say that Ubuntu, Dapper specifically, could do without all the "new" Windows features.

IE 7 is not as good as Firefox, or Opera.

[deathbyswiftwind]

I say the only the we really need is better driver support and more of the "it just works" thing going on. With that we will gain more users and with more users well have better support from the tech industry.

But I also believe we need to keep our distance from the whole windows thing. We arent windows shouldnt try to be windows.

[NaSeTe]

Nice wireless solution is basic in os... and better dualhead with menu etc i hate edit xorg.conf.

[raptor2552]

I would like to see an intelligent update manager. With every new feisty kernel release update manager fails to update, in my case, the nvidia drivers.I shouldn't have to open synaptic, search for and then install the drivers. A blank screen is just an annoyance to me but may send an inexperienced user into a frenzy supported by the many panic posts found in these forums.

[motin]

I would like to see an intelligent update manager. With every new feisty kernel release update manager fails to update, in my case, the nvidia drivers.I shouldn't have to open synaptic, search for and then install the drivers. A blank screen is just an annoyance to me but may send an inexperienced user into a frenzy supported by the many panic posts found in these forums.

I am holding your vote on an intelligent update manager until you have tried Feisty which should solve these problems making the vote obsolete - ok?

[Lucifiel]

Solid Printer support (which both WinXP and Vista have).

Cupsys breaks a lot on many computers and don't even get me started about how some users have so much trouble trying to get it disabled.

I understand, though, that it also depends on the manufacturer to create Linux drivers but there has to be a way to get Windows drivers working on Linux. :p

[mac.ryan]

I understand why people would like better drivers... I cannot not to agree, even.

However it is unfair to compare ubuntu on vista on this from a technological point of view: hardware vendors develop their drivers for windows, knowing the tech specs and feeling compelled to have a working driver for windows prior to release their products. The majority of the drivers developed for Linux are the fruit of reverse engineering and lots of trial-and-error practice.

IMHO, better drivers should come not from more resources poured in reverse-engineering, but in more resources poured in convincing hardware vendors to develop drivers for GNU/Linux as well... :neutral:

[Geekkit]

Things that I've encountered...

Show Stoppers (i.e., things that bar me from using Linux)
- USB support for Nokia phones so that when you plug a phone into the computer (via USB), the OS (Linux) doesn't crash. XP works and Vista works.
- DVD support so that if a DVD is put into the computer it doesn't freeze the OS or put the OS in an unsafe state so that later the system crashes
- SATA support so that the OS boot sequence doesn't freeze

Annoyances
- One PDF viewer that both prints multiple copies (Evince doesn't) and also displays nicely (KPDF doesn't)
- An easy way to update CODECs for media players
- A media player that plays all media (certain ones play certain types, some don't recognize shoutcast some do, etc.)
- Synaptic and Add/Remove programs should really be one app/interface (and shouldn't crash with complex combinations of selections of add/delete)
- Adding menu items to menus in Gnome should work
- Certain S/W packages (e.g., GnomeSword) should be fixed so that when the user attempts to add them they don't get a cryptic message saying press the advanced button to remove other components when in fact there is no advanced button present)
- Setting the sound in xmms shouldn't cause the system sound volume to distort - it doesn't in Windows
- Clicking on media clips in Nautilus shouldn't cause double events ... sometimes

A reference to my original post to all this is at: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=410395

Hope this helps

[motin]

I understand why people would like better drivers... I cannot not to agree, even.

However it is unfair to compare ubuntu on vista on this from a technological point of view: hardware vendors develop their drivers for windows, knowing the tech specs and feeling compelled to have a working driver for windows prior to release their products. The majority of the drivers developed for Linux are the fruit of reverse engineering and lots of trial-and-error practice.

IMHO, better drivers should come not from more resources poured in reverse-engineering, but in more resources poured in convincing hardware vendors to develop drivers for GNU/Linux as well... :neutral:

Yes but this isn't the point really. If Linux wanted needs more vendor-support then maybe the community should focus on calling vendors and requesting Linux-compatible hardware - thus we need to compare cold facts.

[mac.ryan]

Thus we need to compare cold facts.

Agree, here some of them, for example: Microsoft inherited a monopoly in OS from IBM monopoly in PCs. GNU sprang out of the will of single man angry with his office printer (RMS), while Linux was a school project of a student (LT). The same international organisations preaching for free market (WTO et al.) are the one lobbying for the enforcing of anti-free-market policies (software patents, for example) that threaten and factually limit in some countries GNU/Linux development. Etc...

Lack of good drivers is not a technological "cold fact". It is the sad outcome of a much bigger - much more radical - much more dangerous problem.

It is simply unfair to put on the same level design features (like drag and drop or 3D workspace) and lack of good drivers... the latter is not a choice. :(

[Sunnz]

I would like to see an intelligent update manager. With every new feisty kernel release update manager fails to update, in my case, the nvidia drivers.I shouldn't have to open synaptic, search for and then install the drivers. A blank screen is just an annoyance to me but may send an inexperienced user into a frenzy supported by the many panic posts found in these forums.
Hmmm well...

Does anyone know if Windows ever updates the kernel like Linux do? Don't they just have tiny patches?

[Sunnz]

I understand why people would like better drivers... I cannot not to agree, even.

However it is unfair to compare ubuntu on vista on this from a technological point of view: hardware vendors develop their drivers for windows, knowing the tech specs and feeling compelled to have a working driver for windows prior to release their products. The majority of the drivers developed for Linux are the fruit of reverse engineering and lots of trial-and-error practice.

IMHO, better drivers should come not from more resources poured in reverse-engineering, but in more resources poured in convincing hardware vendors to develop drivers for GNU/Linux as well... :neutral:
Yes I agree and it is very frustrating, Linux has all the developers who are competent enough to write drivers yet the vendors themselves aren't trying to work well with developers at all!!!

They (the vendor) are simply not receiving enough pressures.

The Linux community should help by keep asking vendors for drivers or documentation to drivers, developers alone are not enough.

[proalan]

blue screen

[Sunnz]

blue screen
Huh?

You mean BSOD?

You can find that in xscreensaver. ;)

[allforcarrie]

the ability to use USB devices as RAM.

[Sunnz]

the ability to use USB devices as RAM.
I suppose on Linux you could make a swap file on an USB device as well?

Not sure if that's such a great idea though... flash device are fast but have only a certain number of writes.

[Quikee]

I suppose on Linux you could make a swap file on an USB device as well?

You could put swap file on a USB way before Vista. But ReadyBoost in Vista is not only "swap on a USB stick" but some sort of preload and swap combination. Anyway - the boost is not as high as someone might expect.

Not sure if that's such a great idea though... flash device are fast but have only a certain number of writes.

Flash devices do not have as high transfer rates as do hard drives, but have low latency at reading, but then again, not at writing. Number of writes should not be a problem - ~1M writes is not so little anyway.

[Sunnz]

I see, thanks for telling!! :D

However, this ReadyBoost thing seems like a thing MS invented to help out Vista's resource hog, so that people 'feel' that is doesn't hog as much as it suppose to be...

And it is suppose to help out the resource hogging of Vista itself, then people are going to fire up photoshop and 3d max and stuff, or start WOW on high setting... it would "flashing" out more than your average system wouldn't it?

[noenter1]

One thing linux needs is streaming audio/video suporrt for internet browsers(FF). The only way I have ever been able to view streaming video on sites such as youtube was to install IE5.5/6.

EDIT: Also java seems to be incomplete for FF.

[mac.ryan]

One thing linux needs is streaming audio/video suporrt for internet browsers(FF). The only way I have ever been able to view streaming video on sites such as youtube was to install IE5.5/6.

It must be an issue with your installation... I had 5 machines running under ubuntu (and saw many more) and all of those had not an issue with streaming video within FF.

[motin]

One thing linux needs is streaming audio/video suporrt for internet browsers(FF). The only way I have ever been able to view streaming video on sites such as youtube was to install IE5.5/6.

EDIT: Also java seems to be incomplete for FF.

I develop the site http://www.videoboom.se and http://www.videoboom.com on a Ubuntu machine and Flash 7 & 9 works well in FF for streaming audio and video. Check your installation. Maybe try install the newer Flash 9 for Linux.

[rustybronco]

I hope i'm not to far off base here but I think and easy way to make an image of the installation (backup) of a partial or complete hard drive to any device (external h.d., cd, dvd) for easy re-installation.

[motin]

I hope i'm not to far off base here but I think and easy way to make an image of the installation (backup) of a partial or complete hard drive to any device (external h.d., cd, dvd) for easy re-installation.

I love the fact that the programs like Drive Snapshot works with Windows - it does exactly what you mention but that is off unless Vista has integrated support for this - does Vista have that?

[JT673]

I'd say Gaming and Wine support are important, but there is one feature of Windows I have never found a good Open Source subsitute for: the Microsoft IME. Being an Asian, I have to type in Chinese and Japanese sometimes. I find the Microsoft IME priceless becase of the Romaji support, taskbar icon, and a drawing pad where It will match the drawing with the closest Kanji or Kana. I salute Microsoft of Japan developers for the awesomeness of it. If only they were in charge of Microsoft...

[Sunnz]

I hope i'm not to far off base here but I think and easy way to make an image of the installation (backup) of a partial or complete hard drive to any device (external h.d., cd, dvd) for easy re-installation.
See dd(1) (http://www.openbsd.org/cgi-bin/man.cgi?query=dd&apropos=0&sektion=0&manpath=OpenBSD+Current&arch=i386&format=html)...

[metadude]

performance.

i just installed vista on my laptop, and i'm afraid i have to say that vista feels way snappier and responsive. firefox takes < 2 seconds to load, emacs and xemacs take < 1 second to load.
with feisty(or any other linux distro) on the same machine, firefox takes ~ 4 seconds, and emacs takes ~ 2 seconds. while that doesnt sound like much of an issue (its just a few seconds after all), these apps take at least 2 times as long to start in linux. and it really isnt just those 2 apps...

do you people get different results? i'm a long time linux user (> 10 years), but it has always been that way for me. windows always started apps faster and did "feel" way more responsive. i use linux because its superior in other areas, but people always seem to say "omg i just installed linux and it is sooo much responsive than windows xp", while for me its always pretty much the other way round.

[braveerudite]

Ntfs

[mac.ryan]

do you people get different results? ... people always seem to say "omg i just installed linux and it is sooo much responsive than windows xp", while for me its always pretty much the other way round.

The only one installation with Vista was on a friend's machine, and Vista was so slow that we immediately formatted the HD and installed ubuntu 6.10 instead (I would say the speed factor was about x3 better with the latter). My friend's machine had a low-end machine (yet it was labelled "Vista Ready"), so my first remark is that if the performance advantage manifests itself only on ultimate hardware, it is useless, as average users (at least in my country) won't invest their money on such expensive HW configs.

However I had plenty of comparison cases between XP and ubuntu and/or debian and/or gentoo (although I am ubuntu user only since a couple of years). I never noted down times, but I would say that if after a fresh install the speed was comparable between OSs, after some months of usage XP degraded badly, while GNU/Linux stayed up to its original standards. Will this performance degradation manifest itself also on Vista?

Also, optimizations and customizations of your GNU/Linux box can have a big impact. Especially when it comes to comparisons done in file operations (like the one you mentioned above), it makes a perceivable difference to have stuff like prelink, preload and readahead enabled, as it does to have the directory tree optimised, etc, etc...

[Side note: however I have the impression that performance decreased on my laptop with the passage from Edgy32 to Feisty64... I honestly expected the other way around, and I wonder if this might be because of the LVM partitioning I did in-between... ?]

[metadude]

The only one installation with Vista was on a friend's machine, and Vista was so slow that we immediately formatted the HD and installed ubuntu 6.10 instead (I would say the speed factor was about x3 better with the latter). My friend's machine had a low-end machine (yet it was labelled "Vista Ready"), so my first remark is that if the performance advantage manifests itself only on ultimate hardware, it is useless, as average users (at least in my country) won't invest their money on such expensive HW configs.


My machine isn't that much high-end either. its labeled "vista capable". its got 2GB RAM though, which maybe whats needed to get good performance in Vista (just guessing here). i'm not advocating for using vista here, but i kind of wonder what linux is doing wrong when i see the performance advantage i get. and also, vista is faster for me even with all the eyecandy enabled (which i don't care about, but it shows that vista *seems* to do more work but still beats linux )

However I had plenty of comparison cases between XP and ubuntu and/or debian and/or gentoo (although I am ubuntu user only since a couple of years). I never noted down times, but I would say that if after a fresh install the speed was comparable between OSs, after some months of usage XP degraded badly, while GNU/Linux stayed up to its original standards. Will this performance degradation manifest itself also on Vista?


for me windows always seemed snappier and more responsive, but your right when saying that on windows the performance degrades and linux doesn't seem to suffer from that. when i click on the emacs launcher in windows vista, emacs pops up instantly (after it being loaded and closed before, of course), and while it only takes 2 seconds in linux, it still *feels* *way* faster on vista.

Also, optimizations and customizations of your GNU/Linux box can have a big impact. Especially when it comes to comparisons done in file operations (like the one you mentioned above), it makes a perceivable difference to have stuff like prelink, preload and readahead enabled, as it does to have the directory tree optimised, etc, etc...


thats certainly true, but i have prelink, and readahead enabled. preload shouldn't have an impact when i launch a application right after i close it, or when i closed it a minute ago. it should already be somewhat cached in memory. i also have noatime in fstab so file accesses are a bit faster. i even tried different filesystems, but thats kind of pointless when a application is loaded into the cache already.

[mac.ryan]

It would be interesting to have a real benchmark test on a system with dual booting (or to be 100% fair) with a system where you installed in the same partition win and linux (one after the other) so that even the data transfer rate from the HD would be identical...

Anyhow... glad to know that beside DRM and Aero they did some real improvement at M$!! :)

[metadude]

Ntfs

works fine for me with ntfs-3g

[motin]

performance.

i just installed vista on my laptop, and i'm afraid i have to say that vista feels way snappier and responsive. firefox takes < 2 seconds to load, emacs and xemacs take < 1 second to load.
with feisty(or any other linux distro) on the same machine, firefox takes ~ 4 seconds, and emacs takes ~ 2 seconds. while that doesnt sound like much of an issue (its just a few seconds after all), these apps take at least 2 times as long to start in linux. and it really isnt just those 2 apps...

do you people get different results? i'm a long time linux user (> 10 years), but it has always been that way for me. windows always started apps faster and did "feel" way more responsive. i use linux because its superior in other areas, but people always seem to say "omg i just installed linux and it is sooo much responsive than windows xp", while for me its always pretty much the other way round.
The only one installation with Vista was on a friend's machine, and Vista was so slow that we immediately formatted the HD and installed ubuntu 6.10 instead (I would say the speed factor was about x3 better with the latter). My friend's machine had a low-end machine (yet it was labelled "Vista Ready"), so my first remark is that if the performance advantage manifests itself only on ultimate hardware, it is useless, as average users (at least in my country) won't invest their money on such expensive HW configs.

However I had plenty of comparison cases between XP and ubuntu and/or debian and/or gentoo (although I am ubuntu user only since a couple of years). I never noted down times, but I would say that if after a fresh install the speed was comparable between OSs, after some months of usage XP degraded badly, while GNU/Linux stayed up to its original standards. Will this performance degradation manifest itself also on Vista?

Also, optimizations and customizations of your GNU/Linux box can have a big impact. Especially when it comes to comparisons done in file operations (like the one you mentioned above), it makes a perceivable difference to have stuff like prelink, preload and readahead enabled, as it does to have the directory tree optimised, etc, etc...

[Side note: however I have the impression that performance decreased on my laptop with the passage from Edgy32 to Feisty64... I honestly expected the other way around, and I wonder if this might be because of the LVM partitioning I did in-between... ?]
My machine isn't that much high-end either. its labeled "vista capable". its got 2GB RAM though, which maybe whats needed to get good performance in Vista (just guessing here). i'm not advocating for using vista here, but i kind of wonder what linux is doing wrong when i see the performance advantage i get. and also, vista is faster for me even with all the eyecandy enabled (which i don't care about, but it shows that vista *seems* to do more work but still beats linux )

for me windows always seemed snappier and more responsive, but your right when saying that on windows the performance degrades and linux doesn't seem to suffer from that. when i click on the emacs launcher in windows vista, emacs pops up instantly (after it being loaded and closed before, of course), and while it only takes 2 seconds in linux, it still *feels* *way* faster on vista.

thats certainly true, but i have prelink, and readahead enabled. preload shouldn't have an impact when i launch a application right after i close it, or when i closed it a minute ago. it should already be somewhat cached in memory. i also have noatime in fstab so file accesses are a bit faster. i even tried different filesystems, but thats kind of pointless when a application is loaded into the cache already.
It would be interesting to have a real benchmark test on a system with dual booting (or to be 100% fair) with a system where you installed in the same partition win and linux (one after the other) so that even the data transfer rate from the HD would be identical...

Anyhow... glad to know that beside DRM and Aero they did some real improvement at M$!! :)

I couldn't find any vote to put in the list from this. Maybe you should start a thread about comparing Vista/Feisty performance instead?

I reckon I shouldn't write "Greater performance maybe and then more likely if the hardware is high-end but noone really knows for sure (1)" ;)

[Sunnz]

Please don't kill me if I am wrong...

Would it be possible that those who reported performance gain on Vista were just testing the loading time of programs but not actually working on anything in particular; whilst those who reported performance loss were actually working on something to see if the system runs well?

Well if you are doing purely testing, or something close to it, on a higher end machine; and if you compare that to someone actually doing some 'work' on a lower end machine, it could be a huge difference.

Note, I meant higher end and lower end in a relative sense, I don't mean to actually using Vista on a PIII vs. Vista on a MacPro, maybe some small difference of 1 GB of RAM vs. 2 GB of RAM.

[lakersforce]

IE 7 is not as good as Firefox, or Opera.

No doubt about that, but unfortunately you need IE for a lot of the most important infrastructural websites. Home-Banking for example. And for a lot of those, you will right now need at least IE 6 sp2, which is not aviable on linux.

[SXR]

I want flash player support forthe PPC processsor

[Sunnz]

I want flash player support forthe PPC processsor
What has Flash on PPC has anything to do with Vista? I don't think Vista are ever ported to PPC.

[motin]

I want flash player support forthe PPC processsor

What has Flash on PPC has anything to do with Vista? I don't think Vista are ever ported to PPC.

Agrees. This thread's focus is Vista features -> Ubuntu

[ageer1]

Faxing capability that doesn't require a MSEE to install, rather "just works".

[SEMW]

Regarding people's drastically differing performance experiences with Vista against Ubuntu; if my experiences are correct, they probably come from the fact that Vista seems VERY RAM-dependent.


With 512MB, it's much slower than Ubuntu.
With 1GB, it's slightly slower than Ubuntu.
With 2GB, it actually feels slightly [i]faster[/] than Ubuntu.

The point of equality seems to be about 1.5GB.

I think this is because, although Vista is a RAM-hog and so is slower if you've not got much of it, if you've got enough of the stuff then Superfetch comes into its own and uses the extra to cache commonly used programs, commonly accessed files etc. into the unused space, making the start-up time of programs you use often feel practically instantaneous. (Of course, Linux has its own memory-caching features, but they're fairly primitive compared to Superfetch).

Someone mentioned Readyboost -- whilst it is quite cool, it's waaaaay down the list of things it would be nice for Ubuntu to have. Besides, since Ubuntu isn't nearly so much of a RAM-hog, it isn't really needed. (It was suggested Ubuntu could emulate this by putting the paging file on a flash drive, and I'll repeat what someone else said -- that is a REALLY bad idea; not only is the sustained transfer speed crap, but the drive won't last long, and there's too much chance of it pulling loose, which would be very bad. That's not what Readyboost is.)

Someone else mentioned seamless IE7 -- can't say I'm bothered; I can't see why anyone would want to use it voluntarily over Firefox/Opera (except web developers wanting to test pages, and they probably use VMs anyway).

Anyway, my vote goes to better Tablet PC support. My mother actually got a Vista Tablet PC (Lenovo X60t) (after her old laptop became unable to run for 30 seconds without freezing -- with any OS) and it's actually pretty neat. After using it for more than 30 seconds, using a pen to point and click at things seems waaaay more natural than a mouse, and Vista's penified features (journal, penflicks, being able to click&drap to move up and down in webpages, onenote etc.) are good. More surprising, the handwriting recognition is damned accurate, and that's bearing in mind that my Mother's a doctor and we regularly have to call in a pharmacist to interpret scribbled notes...:)

It would be SO cool if Ubuntu leapfrogged Vista with cool tablet PC & pen features (come on, I'm sure we can think of some good ones!), and implemented a decent handwriting recognition algorithm (dictionary-based, easy to correct when it gets it wrong, and able to learn from it's mistakes and automatically put them in a custom dictionary) usable seamlessly from anywhere in the interface.

Who's with me? Bring on the Ubuntu Pen-based Computing Revolution!

[motin]

Regarding people's drastically differing performance experiences with Vista against Ubuntu; if my experiences are correct, they probably come from the fact that Vista seems VERY RAM-dependent.


With 512MB, it's much slower than Ubuntu.
With 1GB, it's slightly slower than Ubuntu.
With 2GB, it actually feels slightly [i]faster[/] than Ubuntu.

The point of equality seems to be about 1.5GB.

I think this is because, although Vista is a RAM-hog and so is slower if you've not got much of it, if you've got enough of the stuff then Superfetch comes into its own and uses the extra to cache commonly used programs, commonly accessed files etc. into the unused space, making the start-up time of programs you use often feel practically instantaneous. (Of course, Linux has its own memory-caching features, but they're fairly primitive compared to Superfetch).

Someone mentioned Readyboost -- whilst it is quite cool, it's waaaaay down the list of things it would be nice for Ubuntu to have. Besides, since Ubuntu isn't nearly so much of a RAM-hog, it isn't really needed. (It was suggested Ubuntu could emulate this by putting the paging file on a flash drive, and I'll repeat what someone else said -- that is a REALLY bad idea; not only is the sustained transfer speed crap, but the drive won't last long, and there's too much chance of it pulling loose, which would be very bad. That's not what Readyboost is.)

Someone else mentioned seamless IE7 -- can't say I'm bothered; I can't see why anyone would want to use it voluntarily over Firefox/Opera (except web developers wanting to test pages, and they probably use VMs anyway).

Anyway, my vote goes to better Tablet PC support. My mother actually got a Vista Tablet PC (Lenovo X60t) (after her old laptop became unable to run for 30 seconds without freezing -- with any OS) and it's actually pretty neat. After using it for more than 30 seconds, using a pen to point and click at things seems waaaay more natural than a mouse, and Vista's penified features (journal, penflicks, being able to click&drap to move up and down in webpages, onenote etc.) are good. More surprising, the handwriting recognition is damned accurate, and that's bearing in mind that my Mother's a doctor and we regularly have to call in a pharmacist to interpret scribbled notes...:)

It would be SO cool if Ubuntu leapfrogged Vista with cool tablet PC & pen features (come on, I'm sure we can think of some good ones!), and implemented a decent handwriting recognition algorithm (dictionary-based, easy to correct when it gets it wrong, and able to learn from it's mistakes and automatically put them in a custom dictionary) usable seamlessly from anywhere in the interface.

Who's with me? Bring on the Ubuntu Pen-based Computing Revolution!

I totally agree with you. I think this makes for at least 3-5 damn good and interesting feature specifications. Together they will improve the overall Tablet PC functionality of Linux desktops.

I suggest you gather some folks and start writing these specifications: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FeatureSpecifications

Be sure to check outside Ubuntu first for current projects because this is not Ubuntu specific. The Ubuntu wiki and Launchpad is a great drafting and progress area however independent of that fact - so start scribbling if you have the interest!

PS Hey it would be cool to involve Beryl in some way.

[unnes]

.NET support would be nice, seeing as how now first-time developers tend to use .NET tools to create even the most basic applications.

[dan171717]

what the linuxcommunity needs is a opensourse vertual pc (sorry i cant spell well!) i am sure there is one but i cant find it

[SEMW]

what the linuxcommunity needs is a opensourse vertual pc (sorry i cant spell well!) i am sure there is one but i cant find it

VMware works very well on Ubuntu, by all accounts (Here's a guide to installing it on Feisty (http://www.howtoforge.com/ubuntu_feisty_fawn_vmware_server_howto)). No, it's not open source, but open source alternatives to already existing good-quality, Linux-native freeware come under the category of 'Nice to have, but not a priority' (except if you're RMS or a Debian developer, and most Ubuntu users are neither).

Edit: if you *really* want something open-source, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux-VServer looks interesting. The page doesn't make it clear whether it's actually included in the standard kernel releases or whether you'd have to add it manually and recompile, so I've no idea whether it's practical for use on Ubuntu. VMware would still be the best choice for most people.

[Xaimas]

Hardware support, the only plus for Vista (appart from the gaming)

[Sunnz]

Vista's hardware support isn't that good as far as I have heard of...

[motin]

.NET support would be nice, seeing as how now first-time developers tend to use .NET tools to create even the most basic applications.

what the linuxcommunity needs is a opensourse vertual pc (sorry i cant spell well!) i am sure there is one but i cant find it

VMware works very well on Ubuntu, by all accounts (Here's a guide to installing it on Feisty (http://www.howtoforge.com/ubuntu_feisty_fawn_vmware_server_howto)). No, it's not open source, but open source alternatives to already existing good-quality, Linux-native freeware come under the category of 'Nice to have, but not a priority' (except if you're RMS or a Debian developer, and most Ubuntu users are neither).

Edit: if you *really* want something open-source, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux-VServer looks interesting. The page doesn't make it clear whether it's actually included in the standard kernel releases or whether you'd have to add it manually and recompile, so I've no idea whether it's practical for use on Ubuntu. VMware would still be the best choice for most people.

THE open source virtualization software is called VirtualBox. http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Downloads - stable and dead easy to use.

[dca]

Hardware support is terrible in Vista so long as the peripheral you purchase has a big gold emblazened logo on it saying 'Vista Ready'... Anything else is a crap shoot, ie: older USB scanners & printers, even digi cameras...

The only thing I can see needed in a Linux distro that I get ribbed for a lot is a 'media center' style application. Everyone yammers about easy-to-use distro(s) which really don't bother me but the idea of having a front-end GUI app w/ the ability to play your videos, play your songs, burn your CDs all in one front-end using the engines of g-streamer, soundjuicer, gnomebake, whatever, whatever, etc, amen on the back-end...

[stchman]

Support for Internet Explorer 7.

WHY????!!!!!!

Firefox does everything I need on the web.

[cmat]

WHY????!!!!!!

Firefox does everything I need on the web.

Web developers need it to make sure people that use IE can view the pages they make properly. Windows supports both firefox and IE.

[kodek]

Add another vote to the Tablet PC support. If I could take notes on Ubuntu and organize them as easily as with OneNote '07, I'd switch right now.

[Sunnz]

Web developers need it to make sure people that use IE can view the pages they make properly. Windows supports both firefox and IE.

Realistically, it is IE that is unable to run on Linux.

[insane_alien]

if IE conformed to standards then you would only need to test on a single browser that supports standards.

[motin]

if IE conformed to standards then you would only need to test on a single browser that supports standards.

Please discuss browser standards and IE in another thread, thanks.

[Sunnz]

if IE conformed to standards then you would only need to test on a single browser that supports standards.
When that day comes you'll be able to make a snowman in hell.

[motin]

When that day comes you'll be able to make a snowman in hell.

Please discuss browser standards and IE in another thread, thanks.

[jimbean]

the only features that i would like is cheaper windows

all i know that all the problems that the people have with ubuntu i have had with windows in the last 20 years they promise backwards compatibility it does not happen
For a free operating system this is incredible beyond belief it is
just as good if not better then vista ultimate

also dont do an upgrade with ms products if you do more than just surf

the only problem i see with ubuntu is games if you were brought up on ms
your hooked with game fever
the games that played on windows 95 would not always play on win xp without 5 days of figuring
ive had years of installing and reinstalling windows 3.0 thru windows vista

both ubuntu and windows are exactly the same in every way
they both are dependant on the operator
the only features that i would like is cheaper windows

[wolfen69]

Yeah, I guess I would add: "drivers" in general.

I know this should get better as the desktop linux user base grows, but we do need hardware vendors to produce quality drivers for their hardware in a timely manner.

exactly!

[Sunnz]

Yeah, I guess I would add: "drivers" in general.

I know this should get better as the desktop linux user base grows, but we do need hardware vendors to produce quality drivers for their hardware in a timely manner.
exactly!

Please see my sig.

[maybeway36]

Ubuntu needs a good way to support hard drive spin-downs to save energy.

[kulturloseramerikaner]

Ubuntu needs a good way to support hard drive spin-downs to save energy.
Agreed. Full ACPI implementation, so we can take full advantage of features like spin-down, hibernate, suspend, etc. That's one department where I have to give props to windows. 'Nix bootup and shutdown times are so much faster though, so this has not yet been a show-stopper for me, but I'd love to have the functionality.

[James7]

Please don't kill me if I am wrong...

Would it be possible that those who reported performance gain on Vista were just testing the loading time of programs but not actually working on anything in particular; whilst those who reported performance loss were actually working on something to see if the system runs well?

Well if you are doing purely testing, or something close to it, on a higher end machine; and if you compare that to someone actually doing some 'work' on a lower end machine, it could be a huge difference.

Note, I meant higher end and lower end in a relative sense, I don't mean to actually using Vista on a PIII vs. Vista on a MacPro, maybe some small difference of 1 GB of RAM vs. 2 GB of RAM.

I agree: what you need are rigid testing conditions, but everyday user feel is good to think about too. Windows has lots of tricks to get programs to load faster. Some programs, like Acrobat Reader, effectively 'start' at system boot up, running quietly in memory until you want it. I think they have to do this because, like most Adobe software, it is so bloated that people would be horrified waiting forever to open a PDF file.

All that booting stuff in Windows led my system to be very slow at starting. Ubuntu for me boots about 8-10x faster (I mean when the desktop is up and the hard drive stops thrashing about). Normal program launch on Ubuntu is faster for me too: like 2-3x in most cases. But it is hard to compare. I use Rhythmbox now and it is up in no time. I used to use Windows Media Player and that thing took ages to load. They do the same thing as far as I can see. I like the efficient speed and cleanness of Ubuntu a lot lot better. :)

OT, here are two things I wish Ubuntu did (or I knew how to make Ubuntu do!) that Vista does automatically:

I have a wireless router and it is encrypted so I have a password to log on wirelessly. In Vista, it remembers my password without prompting me. In Ubuntu the Keyring Manager opens every time I boot up asking me again for my logon password to allow the password for the router to be sent in so I can connect. I guess this isn't a problem for people who leave their computer on all the time but I have it in my room and have to shut it down to get to sleep.

Second: I tried amule to use for MSN video chat but it is choppy and slow, not fluid and fast like on Windows. I had to delete amule because it was too annoying. gaim is fine but no video chat.

Still, I love Ubuntu, it is like a revelation :)

[motin]

the only features that i would like is cheaper windows

all i know that all the problems that the people have with ubuntu i have had with windows in the last 20 years they promise backwards compatibility it does not happen
For a free operating system this is incredible beyond belief it is
just as good if not better then vista ultimate

also dont do an upgrade with ms products if you do more than just surf

the only problem i see with ubuntu is games if you were brought up on ms
your hooked with game fever
the games that played on windows 95 would not always play on win xp without 5 days of figuring
ive had years of installing and reinstalling windows 3.0 thru windows vista

both ubuntu and windows are exactly the same in every way
they both are dependant on the operator
the only features that i would like is cheaper windows

I can't really get any information on the thread's subject from your post. Are you voting for any particular feature(s) here? Gaming support? Is the Windows price tag better than Ubuntus?

Ubuntu needs a good way to support hard drive spin-downs to save energy.

Is this a feature of Vista?

OT, here are two things I wish Ubuntu did (or I knew how to make Ubuntu do!) that Vista does automatically:

I have a wireless router and it is encrypted so I have a password to log on wirelessly. In Vista, it remembers my password without prompting me. In Ubuntu the Keyring Manager opens every time I boot up asking me again for my logon password to allow the password for the router to be sent in so I can connect. I guess this isn't a problem for people who leave their computer on all the time but I have it in my room and have to shut it down to get to sleep.

Second: I tried amule to use for MSN video chat but it is choppy and slow, not fluid and fast like on Windows. I had to delete amule because it was too annoying. gaim is fine but no video chat.

Still, I love Ubuntu, it is like a revelation :)

So votes on "Keyring manager that doesn't prompt for user password upon every boot" and "Video Chat support".

Btw: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_Stop_nm_applet_from_authenticating_with_the _keyring

[Sunnz]

Windows has lots of tricks to get programs to load faster. Some programs, like Acrobat Reader, effectively 'start' at system boot up, running quietly in memory until you want it. I think they have to do this because, like most Adobe software, it is so bloated that people would be horrified waiting forever to open a PDF file.Adobe is loaded at Windows startup? Since when?

At school, all Windows machine do take ages to open a PDF file, people usually go get a coffee and come back later... Linux and Mac machines on the other hand, opens PDF almost in an instant.

I have a wireless router and it is encrypted so I have a password to log on wirelessly. In Vista, it remembers my password without prompting me. In Ubuntu the Keyring Manager opens every time I boot up asking me again for my logon password to allow the password for the router to be sent in so I can connect. I guess this isn't a problem for people who leave their computer on all the time but I have it in my room and have to shut it down to get to sleep.This is the computer in your bedroom, so it would only ever connect to your wireless router, correct? You could have your key set up in config files and have Ubuntu to connect automatically to your wireless router... if you are interested to learn to do so feel free to PM me.
:popcorn:

[Depressed Man]

Adobe installs a preloader in Vista's start menu (well and any other Windows installation). Not exactly Windows' doing (and I hate it myself I have to delete their starter each time I install Adobe on a computer).

[vexorian]

vista "features"! lol.

The answer is no vista feature is needed in ubuntu, compiz-fusion already beats aero miles away.

The other things : directx / drivers from other companies are likely a windows "feature" (or lock-in, if you want to call things by their name) in general not specific to vista.

Wine is going to add directx10 support, and might even be ported to windows to allow XP users to run directX10 games. (yes, this is serious)

[Depressed Man]

vista "features"! lol.

The answer is no vista feature is needed in ubuntu, compiz-fusion already beats aero miles away.

The other things : directx / drivers from other companies are likely a windows "feature" (or lock-in, if you want to call things by their name) in general not specific to vista.

Wine is going to add directx10 support, and might even be ported to windows to allow XP users to run directX10 games. (yes, this is serious)

I'd say it's quite a while before Wine gets DX10 support. Even then I'd imagine Microsoft would pull some random thing to try to stop it.

Anyway, I'd say the Windows Desktop Search is pretty nice. At least it's integration with the OS and the display of results. I know Linux has Beagle, Tracker, and Google Desktop (I use all of them..well not Google Desktop for Linux since I hate seeing my results in an internet browser).

Beagle and Tracker don't have TB support yet (though I believe that will change..there's already a method to get it owrking, it's just not in the main pipeline yet). But I personally don't like Tracker's results interface. And the preview at the bottom is to small! With Windows Desktop Search (and the other one I use.. Copernic Desktop Search) they have a nice interface with a pretty good preview window.

[motin]

vista "features"! lol.

The answer is no vista feature is needed in ubuntu, compiz-fusion already beats aero miles away.


Aero is ONE feature. Vista actually boosts several others. I don't believe users demanding "Encrypting File System" will install Compiz-Fusion and say - hey this is all i need. But thats just my opinion :P

This is the computer in your bedroom, so it would only ever connect to your wireless router, correct? You could have your key set up in config files and have Ubuntu to connect automatically to your wireless router... if you are interested to learn to do so feel free to PM me.
:popcorn:

I think it is easier for him to follow the link to the solution I posted above:

Btw: http://digg.com/linux_unix/Ubuntu_Stop_nm_applet_from_authenticating_with_the _keyring

I'd say it's quite a while before Wine gets DX10 support. Even then I'd imagine Microsoft would pull some random thing to try to stop it.

Anyway, I'd say the Windows Desktop Search is pretty nice. At least it's integration with the OS and the display of results. I know Linux has Beagle, Tracker, and Google Desktop (I use all of them..well not Google Desktop for Linux since I hate seeing my results in an internet browser).

Beagle and Tracker don't have TB support yet (though I believe that will change..there's already a method to get it owrking, it's just not in the main pipeline yet). But I personally don't like Tracker's results interface. And the preview at the bottom is to small! With Windows Desktop Search (and the other one I use.. Copernic Desktop Search) they have a nice interface with a pretty good preview window.

One vote for Windows Desktop Search written up!

Btw, I used to use Copernic Desktop Search over WINE on Dapper. Indexing etc worked great only it would crash when previewing some filetypes like Word docs etc. Then I learned grep -r 'text' . and since I only used Copernic for source code back on Windows I am off using Copernic now.

[Depressed Man]

Well I just found one thing WDS fails at. Indexing .odt files -_- (there's a filter plugin I've yet to try though). To be fair Google Desktop Search also requires a plugin to search them.

grep -r 'text?

Does it work for images (jpgs with tags/comments IPTC standard?), pdfs, and other formats? Like the insides of the files (not the filenames). Since I find it pretty useful to type whatever I'm looking up say "consumer behavior" and pull up all the notes I've taken in my classes, any powerpoints I have, and related PDFs.

Anyway I'm looking into grep -r 'text :)

Edit: GDS does have ODT support now. Official support that is :).

[motin]

grep -r 'text?

Does it work for images (jpgs with tags/comments IPTC standard?), pdfs, and other formats? Like the insides of the files (not the filenames). Since I find it pretty useful to type whatever I'm looking up say "consumer behavior" and pull up all the notes I've taken in my classes, any powerpoints I have, and related PDFs.

Anyway I'm looking into grep -r 'text :)

Yeah, keep grep -r 'regular expression' .for searching plain text files. As I said I use it for searching in code (on top of that it is on a server where I only have ssh access). Although it will work with any file that you can pipe safely through less/cat etc - including uncompressed pdf files and probably some jpeg tags as well.

[aitorcalero]

DirectX support for gaming, for sure!

[obscur156]

None period.

That's just me...
Best regards.

[segalion]

I think that next evolution in OS will be "speech recognition" due to multicore processors. One of them would be dedicated entirely to this work.

I suppose that linux would beat other OS if it was firts to understand people easily in a natural way.

The idea would be not more than 100 words dictionary in order to make simplest action to control the computer.
"close" i.e. =altF4
"call" i.e. = ekiga
"next", "previous", "pause", "record", "remember", "enter" ...

Next releases would improve and complex actions and words and phrases...

I think that we are in XXI century, and seems that new ideas in computer world are decreassing.


references...
http://sound.condorow.net/speech.html

[karellen]

I think that next evolution in OS will be "speech recognition" due to multicore processors. One of them would be dedicated entirely to this work.

I suppose that linux would beat other OS if it was firts to understand people easily in a natural way.

The idea would be not more than 100 words dictionary in order to make simplest action to control the computer.
"close" i.e. =altF4
"call" i.e. = ekiga
"next", "previous", "pause", "record", "remember", "enter" ...

Next releases would improve and complex actions and words and phrases...

I think that we are in XXI century, and seems that new ideas in computer world are decreassing.


references...
http://sound.condorow.net/speech.html

speaking from my own point of view I dislike the idea of controlling the pc via voice. I don't know exactly why, but the keyboard is all what I need and it gives me a feeling of power, precision and control. no incorrectly pronounced words, no recognition errors and so on. I'm a nostalgic...:D

[aitorcalero]

I do not want to use my pc via voice. There are yet a lot of noise in my workroom, and hearing everyone "talking" command will be very disgusting!!
No please, be quiet ;)

[karellen]

I do not want to use my pc via voice. There are yet a lot of noise in my workroom, and hearing everyone "talking" command will be very disgusting!!
No please, be quiet ;)

that's what I was thinking...:)

[marx2k]

You also have VirtualBox from InnoTek
http://www.virtualbox.org/

VMware works very well on Ubuntu, by all accounts (Here's a guide to installing it on Feisty (http://www.howtoforge.com/ubuntu_feisty_fawn_vmware_server_howto)). No, it's not open source, but open source alternatives to already existing good-quality, Linux-native freeware come under the category of 'Nice to have, but not a priority' (except if you're RMS or a Debian developer, and most Ubuntu users are neither).

Edit: if you *really* want something open-source, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux-VServer looks interesting. The page doesn't make it clear whether it's actually included in the standard kernel releases or whether you'd have to add it manually and recompile, so I've no idea whether it's practical for use on Ubuntu. VMware would still be the best choice for most people.

[marx2k]

the only features that i would like is cheaper windows

What's sort of funny about this is that I could install Vista for free and still choose not to :) A lot of people are int he same situation. A lot of people get Vista preinstalled and wipe it automatically as soon as they get the machine home.

Price is not the issue for a lot of people, though I guess for some people it may be.

[walktod]

Mark one more for Game support.

Not just games, but latest commercial games. Basically, if Linux full integrated support for all Direct X versions, I would dump my Vista partition and would never touch another Windows machine with a ten foot pole.

Oh how I wait for Falling Leaf Systems (http://www.fallingleafsystems.com/)!

[danny joe ritchie]

As a user of Ubuntu and Vista, I can say that Ubuntu, Dapper specifically, could do without all the "new" Windows features.

IE 7 is not as good as Firefox, or Opera.

I agree with you on this one ! Ubuntu is fine just the way it is ,if I wanted features like windows I would have stayed with windows!
I want an OS with not so many features,or a least the ability to remove the ones that are not wanted.

[Caffeine_Junky]

.....A lot of people get Vista preinstalled and wipe it automatically as soon as they get the machine home.

heh, I went into a Large Computer Retail Store the day that Vista hit the shelves, and I heard I salesman talking to a costomer who was going to buy a Lappy with Vista pre-installed, the salesman said to the costomer "I recomend that you remove Vista from the computer as soon as you can and install a different operating system" lol the store could'nt even sell them a copy of XP because it was removed from the shelves before Vista was released !

As for the "voice recognition software", I would'nt mind somthing like that for home use (and maybe a 3D holographic Super Model UI) :)

..but in public that software could be embarrassing. Has anyone seen the movie "Wild Hogs"? ..don't ask your lappy to search for "Alternitave Spec's" :)))

Linux/Debian/Ubuntu are just fine as they are IMO, I want to see linux evolve it's own features, not copy them from someone else

cheers.

[darksong]

Ubuntu linux needs to work on their updating program. I have had over 10 ubuntu installs break because of the way ubuntu updates. And the updates it breaks on is not consistant with the install, one install it could be kernel updates, open office updates, graphic drivers ect.

[nowshining]

linux will be a bit slow i believe because it loads everything in like a sandbox like state while windows doen't really do that, but in the end it's more likely to crash on windows easier and bring the whole os to a stand still or make it weak and so weak as to do a reboot..

[ofir_k]

Definitely, hardware support.

BTW, someone knows a good tutorial, documentation etc, where I can learn how to write drivers for linux?

[Sparckus]

Direct X support, well gaming support in general but thats got more to do with the developers themselves rather than linux.

[No Whammies]

Definitely, hardware support.



Quoted for truth.

Linux simply doesn't work on my new desktop because of hardware compatibility problems. Ubuntu hates my video card and Linux in general doesn't work with Kodak printer docks. If it wasn't for the video card problem, I'd be using Ubuntu right now (like I did for the two years before I got this new box) on my desktop. I've heard some encouraging news about ATI drivers being improved in recent months, but I'm at the point now where a reinstall/test run would be impractical. So I'm stuck with Vista on my main box for now.

[Nubbie]

One thing I think everybody always forgets about is Accessibility.

Windows has this pretty much dead on, from voice recognition, to screen reading, to high/low contrast display modes, windows has it.

I know it isn't a big deal for most users, myself included, but the functionality of voice recognition is universal. People haven't realized it yet, but it is IMO one of the most powerful uses of technology included with windows.

[motin]

I think that next evolution in OS will be "speech recognition" due to multicore processors...

+1 Vote for Vista's Speech Recognition

speaking from my own point of view I dislike the idea of controlling the pc via voice. I don't know exactly why, but the keyboard is all what I need and it gives me a feeling of power, precision and control. no incorrectly pronounced words, no recognition errors and so on. I'm a nostalgic...:D

Is this an anti-vote? You'd consider Speech Recognition harmful for the adoption of Ubuntu?

What's sort of funny about this is that I could install Vista for free and still choose not to :) A lot of people are int he same situation. A lot of people get Vista preinstalled and wipe it automatically as soon as they get the machine home.

Price is not the issue for a lot of people, though I guess for some people it may be.

Is this a vote?

Mark one more for Game support.

Not just games, but latest commercial games. Basically, if Linux full integrated support for all Direct X versions, I would dump my Vista partition and would never touch another Windows machine with a ten foot pole.

Done!

I agree with you on this one ! Ubuntu is fine just the way it is ,if I wanted features like windows I would have stayed with windows!
I want an OS with not so many features,or a least the ability to remove the ones that are not wanted.

I cannot register a vote here. You should consider voting here: What are the ultimate features of Ubuntu that neither Vista nor OS X has? (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=409720)

Ubuntu linux needs to work on their updating program. I have had over 10 ubuntu installs break because of the way ubuntu updates. And the updates it breaks on is not consistant with the install, one install it could be kernel updates, open office updates, graphic drivers ect.

Ok so Ubuntu needs an equivalent to Vista's update program? :P Stay on par with the topic please.

Linux/Debian/Ubuntu are just fine as they are IMO, I want to see linux evolve it's own features, not copy them from someone else
cheers.

I cannot register a vote here. You should consider voting here: What are the ultimate features of Ubuntu that neither Vista nor OS X has? (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=409720)

Definitely, hardware support.

Registered vote.

Direct X support, well gaming support in general but thats got more to do with the developers themselves rather than linux.

Registered vote.

One thing I think everybody always forgets about is Accessibility.

Windows has this pretty much dead on, from voice recognition, to screen reading, to high/low contrast display modes, windows has it.

I know it isn't a big deal for most users, myself included, but the functionality of voice recognition is universal. People haven't realized it yet, but it is IMO one of the most powerful uses of technology included with windows.

One more for Speech Recognition.

Thanks for your votes this far!

[cmat]

DirectX support on linux is like a secure copy of windows, it's not going to happen.

[Depressed Man]

I agree, there's no way Microsoft would ever allow DirectX on Linux. You'd be better off trying to persuade game companies to make games with OpenGL.

And Vista's Speech Recognition is alright. I've used it a little bit, though at the end, my keyboard+mouse is faster then it will likely ever be (voice recognition has ways to go still).I rather see Ubuntu work on something else then that right now. It'd be nice, but priority wise it'd be very low on the list for me.

[cmat]

Maybe they should make an API or something to make OpenGL development more cost effective.

[dryte]

tablet support, handwriting recognition

[desertboy]

tablet support, handwriting recognition

Agreed.


I just thought I'd chip in I have a Vista certified motherboard and my onboard network port doesn't work in Vista but works fine in Ubuntu if anything from my experience Ubuntu has better hardware support than Vista (Although not a patch on XP)

[CalvinK]

Here is the Vista feature list (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/windowsvista/features/details/accessibility.mspx) - What are the 4-5 features where MS is miles most ahead of Ubuntu in terms of creating and maintaining their strong userbase according to you?

Summary of first 10 pages (up to post #96):
Feature (Votes)
- Drivers / Hardware vendors partnerships incl. solid printer, mobile phones, dvd, wireless support etc (8)
- Gaming / Direct X Support (7)
- Internet Explorer 7 or 6sp2 for home-banking etc (2)
- Great Tablet PC integration/support (2)
- Full ACPI implementation (spin-down, hibernate, suspend, etc) (2)
- Speech Recognition (2)
- Unified implementation of features (1)
- Enterprise features (1)
- Easy configuration of displays (1)
- ReadyBoost (1)
- Ability to use all Windows-compatible applications (1)
- Out-of-the-box faxing capabilities (1)
- Media Center that unifies media/tv watching, CD burning etc (1)
- Keyring manager that doesn't prompt for user password upon every boot (1)
- Video Chat support (1)
- Windows Desktop Search (1)

The Vista feature list:
Accessibility
Basic File Backup and Restore
BitLocker Drive Encryption
Built-in Diagnostics
DirectX 10
Encrypting File System
Explorers
Fast Sleep and Resume
Flip and Flip 3D
Games Explorer
Instant Search
Internet Explorer 7 in Windows Vista
Internet Explorer 7 Printing
Internet Explorer 7 Tabbed Browsing
Internet Explorer Dynamic Security Protection
Internet Explorer Parental Controls
Internet Explorer Protected Mode
Live Icons
Microsoft Phishing Filter in Internet Explorer
Network and Sharing Center
Network Diagnostics and Troubleshooting
Networking
Parental Controls
Performance
Photo Gallery
Remote Access
Remote Desktop Connection
Search & Organization
Search Folders
Self-Healing System
Shadow Copy
Speech Recognition
SuperFetch
Sync Center
Tablet PC Support
User Account Control
Welcome Center
Windows Aero
Windows Calendar
Windows Complete PC Backup and Restore
Windows Defender
Windows DVD Maker
Windows Easy Transfer
Windows Fax and Scan
Windows Firewall
Windows Mail
Windows Media Center
Windows Media Player 11
Windows Meeting Space
Windows Mobility Center
Windows Movie Maker
Windows ReadyBoost
Windows Security Center
Windows Sidebar and Gadgets
Windows SideShow
Windows Update
Wireless Networking

If you are up to it - you may want to give your opinion on these threads as well:
- What are the ultimate features of OS X that Ubuntu needs? (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=409722)
- What are the ultimate features of Ubuntu that neither Vista nor OS X has? (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=409720)

DISCLAIMER: Note that I do NOT believe copycating Apple or MS is a good or even possible way to go. IMO Linux should never aim at going the same path as other OS vendors have and instead keep focused on making Linux better in whatever ways Linux users want. At the same time, a broader feature list that attracts userbase and thus in the end more power/possibilites for the Linux development is needed as well. Since Apple and MS are the current masters of collecting and maintaining a strong userbase - we need to define in what ways we can focus our efforts to efficiently increase ours.

I think that Ubuntu lacks nothing of note but Linux lacks a good speech recognition software. That's the only reason I have a double boot with Vista. The best soft is DragonNaturallySpeaking which has been bought by Microsoft. Unfortunately, the previous version for XP is incompatible with Vista ... an horrible mistake ??

[mkaylor]

Skype with Video. That's one that keeps me from switching 100% of the time.

[motin]

tablet support, handwriting recognition

It would be great if Ubuntu could provide handwriting support for anything else than english, where Vista seems to miss out as well.

[jflaker]

What I really miss is the feature that causes the OS to become unstable and freeze. I also like the feature that causes the CPU to spike inexplicably wereby it causes the interface to be unusable.

Another great feature I miss is bloat! Both on disk and in memory!...


I am not going back to windows. Unfortunately, I am forced to use Windows @ work.

[dagoth_pie]

DX is the only thing we don't have an equivalent for that works just as well (few devs use OGL because of M$' monopoly, so OGL isn't as widely used as DX, we need a good DX implementation), everything else has a Linux opensource alternative. IE7 sucks, I have it installed on an XP machine and it's so damn slow. FF is a million times better.

OpenGL is more than an equivelent for Direct3D, back in the day, OpenGL was leaps and bounds ahead of Direct3D, but now, on a well written api, OpenGL is supposed to run slightly faster, but ignoring that, there are two points worth mentioning, first, being open source, OpenGL will run on almost any platform (as far as I am aware, an xbox can't run it). Also, Direct3D relies on built in capabilities of graphics chipsets to do advanced shading, etc, while OpenGL utilizes them if the gpu is capable of it, it also emulates it hitting the cpu and ram a little, but it means that in the case of computers such as dells, containing cheap intel gpu's, they can still run reasonable effects...

The situation here, is more of a, Microsoft has the larges sharemarket, so lets design games that will run best on that operating system (to get decent performance on windows with OpenGL, apparently you have it use an unofficial (open source) version of OpenGL)

This is what happens when you work seasonal labour lol, you get bored and fill your head with pointless nonsence...

[andras artois]

The games, the pretty skin, plug and play and webcam in IM apps (preferably Pidgin).

[madjr]

Originally Posted by M$LOL

DX is the only thing we don't have an equivalent for that works just as well (few devs use OGL because of M$' monopoly, so OGL isn't as widely used as DX, we need a good DX implementation), everything else has a Linux opensource alternative.

OGL not as widely used?

not as powerfull?

OpenGL is used in the sony PS3... enough said.

linux (and Mac, which also uses OGL) just needs more marketshare and then they'll get more ports.

[karellen]

I have a strong feeling this discussion will end in a bash war, like almost all the others...:rolleyes:

[dagoth_pie]

I have a strong feeling this discussion will end in a bash war, like almost all the others...:rolleyes:

Well I won't contribute to it... well, maybe if I'm bored, but to be honest, I can't think of anything I'd like in Ubuntu that there is in vista, when you think about it Linux doesn't lack anything (you can in fact find vista themes for it), Developers lack Linux, as soon as I hear about a games company making a Linux version of a new release came at the same time as the Windows version, I'm preordering, if anyone hears anything, feel free to PM me :lolflag: