about "What freedom that works means to me"

[karellen]

thoughts?
http://beranger.org/index.php?article=2753
for the ones that tested fc7 betas: is there something like the second screen, with the codecs and price tags?

[DoctorMO]

it's a rant

[karellen]

...yes, it's very likely :)

[Zuph]

I'm sure there's something reasonable and intelligible beneath all that, but it comes off as being an "AMERIKKKA SUX WE NEED EUROPELINUX!" type rant.

He also seems to want to wax poetic and talk smarter than he probably is. Yes, "Free as in Beer" vs. "Free as in Speech" is a childish and simple way to describe a complex concept, which is why we use it. It's a quick and easy way to convey a concept to someone that's unfamiliar with it, or communicate a concept with someone else. I can call a Rhino a Horned Quadruped with Armor-like skin native to sub-Saharan Africa, but that doesn't necessarily help communicate the idea.

It's an angry rant from an open-source crusader with little substance and nothing terribly intelligent to debate about.

[smarttaz]

"Free as in Beer" vs. "Free as in Speech" is a childish and simple way to describe a complex concept, which is why we use it. It's a quick and easy way to convey a concept to someone that's unfamiliar with itSorry to say, but this is simply IDIOT. Windows users don't know what Free as in Beer means.

Except for the American geniuses, the teens and the gamers, no normal human being understands what means Free as in Beer, because this is not a universal phrasal construction!

[B]morons. Open Source will not win with cretinoid taglines.

[finferflu]

Actually those words stand here to indicate the use of the verb "free". That's about it, as far as I understand. English is a poor language, and the same words are often used to express different concepts. Free can mean either "no price, gratis" and "libre, not bound", so that's how it should make sense to people, that Linux is not free in the sense that it's given away at no price, rather it's not bound to any license that restrict its usage.

[Zuph]

Sorry to say, but this is simply IDIOT. Windows users don't know what Free as in Beer means.

Except for the American geniuses, the teens and the gamers, no fooqing normal human being understands what the fooqck means Free as in Beer, because this is not a universal phrasal construction!

Fooqikg morons. Open Source will not win with cretinoid taglines.


What are you talking about? Free as in beer vs. Free as in speech is a simple way to convey a concept to anyone that knows what free, speech and beer are. Sure, you can say "Gratis Vs. Libre," but a lot of people would have to look those words up, and the last thing the Open Source movement needs to do, and the last thing Ubuntu aims to do is alienate users because English has two meanings for "Free."

I challenge you to come up with an equally accessible, simple and clean way to demonstrate the concept to people new to it.

[DoctorMO]

Free beer is what you get from friends or bribes, Free speech is what you get when you have a true democracy of knowledge.

Even though I don't drink beer I still understand the concept of getting free beer; perhaps we should say 'Free as in speech not as in lunch' perhaps then it can link back to the 'no such thing as a free lunch' saying?

[Brunellus]

Sorry to say, but this is simply IDIOT. Windows users don't know what Free as in Beer means.

Except for the American geniuses, the teens and the gamers, no normal human being understands what means Free as in Beer, because this is not a universal phrasal construction!

[B]morons. Open Source will not win with cretinoid taglines.

post has been edited to remove attempts to circumvent the language filter. Don't think that becuase you can spell creatively, you'll get off the hook. Eloquence is more persuasive than brutishness.

The "free beer" versus "free speech" dichotomy works in most dialects of English. If it doesn't work in your native language or dialect, please do feel free to phrase it in an appropriate way.

[smarttaz]

I don't have time for real flames, but the "Free as in Beer" and "Free as in Free Speech" concepts really suck. It's the lamest "promotion" that OSS could have!

Yes, and "Libre" isn't even an English word! Can't FSF come up with something more rational?

It's no wonder so many corporations believe Linux is something for kiddos :-(

I can't come up with a better concoct, because FSF won't change their way to "promote" the "libre".

From a business point of view, Linux is underpromoted and misspromoted. (So it is "missunderestimated" :-J)

[Brunellus]

I don't have time for real flames, but the "Free as in Beer" and "Free as in Free Speech" concepts really suck. It's the lamest "promotion" that OSS could have!

Yes, and "Libre" isn't even an English word! Can't FSF come up with something more rational?

It's no wonder so many corporations believe Linux is something for kiddos :-(

I can't come up with a better concoct, because FSF won't change their way to "promote" the "libre".

From a business point of view, Linux is underpromoted and misspromoted. (So it is "missunderestimated" :-J)
we take a dim view of "real" flames on the ubuntuforums. Light 'em up and I'll ban you faster than you can say "DRM."

[Zuph]

I don't have time for real flames, but the "Free as in Beer" and "Free as in Free Speech" concepts really suck. It's the lamest "promotion" that OSS could have!

Yes, and "Libre" isn't even an English word! Can't FSF come up with something more rational?

It's no wonder so many corporations believe Linux is something for kiddos :-(

I can't come up with a better concoct, because FSF won't change their way to "promote" the "libre".

From a business point of view, Linux is underpromoted and misspromoted. (So it is "missunderestimated" :-J)

You still aren't making sense.

Free as in Beer vs. Free as in Speech isn't a way to promote Linux. It isn't a way to pitch Linux-based solutions to a major corporation. It's a way to differentiate that concept that software can be free as in costs no money to use versus free as in you are able to do whatever you want with it.

And most corporations don't think Linux is for kiddies any more. Those that do have extremely incompetent or extremely corrupt IT staff or Management, and in either case, have larger problems than what OS to use.

[finferflu]

I don't have time for real flames, but the "Free as in Beer" and "Free as in Free Speech" concepts really suck. It's the lamest "promotion" that OSS could have!

Yes, and "Libre" isn't even an English word! Can't FSF come up with something more rational?

It's no wonder so many corporations believe Linux is something for kiddos :-(

I can't come up with a better concoct, because FSF won't change their way to "promote" the "libre".

From a business point of view, Linux is underpromoted and misspromoted. (So it is "missunderestimated" :-J)

I don't think it's FSF's fault if English has got one single word to express two different concepts. I think the free beer as free speech is a good and simple way to disambiguate the usage. It just helps people to think in which way they have to understand the word "free", there is not much philosophy behind the words "free speech", the philosophy is behind open source, rather than how the term "free" is disambiguated (is that a word? :D).