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View Full Version : Novell linked to 'Windows cheaper than Linux' statement


Josh1
March 14th, 2007, 11:52 PM
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39286295,00.htm?user_rating=1

Novell has issued a joint press release with Microsoft, in which HSBC, a customer of joint technology from the two companies, claims that Windows has a lower total cost of ownership than Linux.

The press release, issued late on Wednesday, announced that UK-based bank HSBC has agreed to adopt technology from Novell and Microsoft's recently announced partnership.

In the release, Matthew O'Neill, group head of distributed systems for HSBC Global IT operations, states that the bank's existing Linux environment is more expensive to maintain than its Windows environment. "Some will be surprised to learn that our Windows environment has a lower total cost of ownership than our current Linux environment."

HSBC claims it will achieve cost savings by reducing the number of Linux distributions it uses and by improving the interoperability of its open-source operating system deployments with Windows. "Our decision to simplify our mixed-source environment with Microsoft and Novell will allow us to reduce the cost and complexity," said O'Neill.

Although it is unclear at this time which Linux distributions the bank is using, the fact Novell is associated with a statement that claims Linux has a higher total cost of ownership than Windows will surprise and anger many in the open-source community.

Previously, Novell has been a vociferous proponent of the cost savings offered by open-source software. Speaking at BrainShare, the company's annual user conference in Barcelona in 2004, Novell chief Jack Messman claimed that Microsoft's exhaustive licence fees for Windows have prevented end-user organisations and independent software developers from directing cash into more "innovative" software.

"I am of the opinion that innovation has been slowed because of Microsoft. It has sucked $60bn out of our industry that could have been used for innovation," Messman said. "My vision is that companies won't have to spend so much on operating systems which have been commoditised and spend more on innovation."

But after a long and bloody tussle with Microsoft over patents that both parties held on each other's software, Novell announced in November last year that it was laying aside its past differences with the Redmond company and launching a partnership.

The companies said that they will collaborate on development of specific technologies, for example to help Windows work with Novell's Suse Linux. The companies will create a joint research facility at which they will build and test new products, and work with customers and the open-source community.

The research will include Novell offering a version of Suse Linux Enterprise Server with optimised virtualisation features for Windows Server Longhorn, expected to launch later this year.

Novell's Microsoft-friendly makeover was marked by the dismissal of its chief executive Jack Messman, who was let go in June last year. However, his replacement, Ron Hovsepian, has not completely resisted the odd dig at Microsoft.

Speaking at a press conference in Sydney recently, Hovsepian said he was pleased by the slow uptake of Microsoft's desktop operating system Vista."We're excited by the muted reaction to Vista," he said. "We're going to attack [Microsoft] vigorously and go after their footprint as much as we can," Hovsepian said.

Vista was five years in the making, so the code behind it is very complex according to Hovsepian, whereas open source is more nimble and flexible. "And we have got to take advantage of that."

The HSBC announcement will see the bank, which has 9,500 offices and 284,000 employees in 76 countries, sign up to a three-year support subscription to Suse Linux Enterprise Server from Novell.

Despite the marked differences in approach between open-source supporters and proprietary companies such as Microsoft, HSBC's blended approach to using the software is not uncommon. Speaking at a conference last year, Phil Dawson, Gartner research vice president, said that the analyst group was increasingly receiving feedback from its clients showing that there is a real growth in companies that want to run open-source software stacks on top of Windows, or proprietary software on top of Linux.

"The traditional approach has been an all-commercial Windows stack or a full open-source, Linux-based stack, but these are two extremes of the pendulum. The real growth is in the middle ground," Dawson said.

igknighted
March 15th, 2007, 12:18 AM
I love how they gave ONE line from that quote... nothing like context eh? I would be more than willing to bet that in THAT ONE PARTICULAR SITUATION windows may have been cheaper. If that's the case, switch to windows and go on with life. I would rather Novell have their foot in this door now than HSBC realizing M$ is cheaper and just going straight to them. Novell is too heavily invested in linux/OSS technology to bail on us, so until there is some concrete proof to the contrary we should support them. I hate this speculation, because if the OSS community bails on them then they have no choice, and our paranoia will lead to the loss of one of our biggest allies.

3rdalbum
March 15th, 2007, 10:13 AM
The bank uses multiple Linux distributions, purchasing support contracts from each distro vendor probably, and having staff members being trained in multiple distributions. What exactly did they expect in terms of TCO?

If they use one distribution, having one support contract and one training programme, they will lower their costs.

FernandoMilton
March 15th, 2007, 01:35 PM
I love how they gave ONE line from that quote... nothing like context eh? I would be more than willing to bet that in THAT ONE PARTICULAR SITUATION windows may have been cheaper. If that's the case, switch to windows and go on with life. I would rather Novell have their foot in this door now than HSBC realizing M$ is cheaper and just going straight to them. Novell is too heavily invested in linux/OSS technology to bail on us, so until there is some concrete proof to the contrary we should support them. I hate this speculation, because if the OSS community bails on them then they have no choice, and our paranoia will lead to the loss of one of our biggest allies.

From the article:

Novell has issued a joint press release with Microsoft

That is the line that bothers me more. Independent of what the context is, Novell is playing very dirty on this case. Novell's goal there is to discredit other Linux distros (specially Red Hat, of course, the other successful commercial distro out there), and it is using the deal with Microsoft to achieve that.

By conceding this one to Microsoft and (jointly) stating that "Windows TCO is lower than Linux", even on the context of this one company (and I assure you that almost nobody will bother to look past the headline: "Novell and MS agree: Windows cost < Linux cost end of story), Novell not only taints the image of all other commercial distros but also pimp their own solution as the one with Microsoft bless.

The FUD campaign has already began, and it is coming not only straight from Microsoft this time, but also from the 5th column that is going to eat the whole movement from inside, and that will (as wisely mentioned on Slashdot), like Esau, "sell his birthright for a bowl of lentils".

Luckily, the beauty of Free Software is that, if the leadership stray, a fork is not only possible but extremely likely to happen.

tribaal
March 15th, 2007, 01:47 PM
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, and then you win"
~Mahatma Gandhi

Rings a bell? ;) Only one last step to go :)

- trib'

FernandoMilton
March 15th, 2007, 02:09 PM
<rant mode on, and sorry for double posting, but here it goes>

Another thing that I don't get is why this blind faith on Novell, as if they were involved with Free Software since its inception. Novell was (and still is) a proprietary software company, and only because they bought (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Novell#Linux_for_Business) Ximian and Suse in 2003 (inheriting Evolution, Mono and SUSE in the process) it doesn't mean that they are magically more interested on the success of the platform instead of on their bottom line. Be suspicious, very suspicious of Novell. If to succeed in some other area they have to drop the whole Linux movement (and screw it in the process) they will. If it means selling out to Microsoft, they will.

SunnyRabbiera
March 17th, 2007, 04:45 AM
Yup as the title says...
saw this comming sadly, here is the report:
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39286295,00.htm

so there you have it.
For me at this point this is the straw that broke the camels back, soon Novell will be another MS lacky like SCO.
So what to do now, well for starters work on a way to cut evolution and any other Novell based apps in gnome and other DE's before they go on a IP spree.
Then get all those folks who use suse to reconcider true linuxes that have not dealt with the devil yet (ubuntu for starters)
This can really hurt us if Novell does get gobbled up by the gates empire.

aysiu
March 17th, 2007, 04:53 AM
I've merged this with the other Novell Windows cheaper thread.

EdThaSlayer
March 17th, 2007, 05:25 AM
I guess Novell was doomed to die when they first started teaming up with M$.
Another linux company gone down the drain.

raffytaffy
March 17th, 2007, 05:40 AM
im not happy @ the turn novel has taken . the borg is assimilating linux communities now. suse has been assimilated :( poor lizard:confused:

izanbardprince
March 17th, 2007, 07:46 AM
What I'd love to know is, how can Windows possibly be cheaper than Linux when Microsoft charges hundreds of dollars per license and then hits you up for support.

afljafa
March 17th, 2007, 10:24 AM
What I'd love to know is, how can Windows possibly be cheaper than Linux when Microsoft charges hundreds of dollars per license and then hits you up for support.

If I where to add up all my labour costs involved in getting windows and linux up and running for the various customers I have - Linux would blow Windows away in terms of billing hours.

Adamant1988
March 17th, 2007, 11:28 AM
im not happy @ the turn novel has taken . the borg is assimilating linux communities now. suse has been assimilated :( poor lizard:confused:
"The borg" as you call Microsoft is an excellent software company, but they are a company. They have a priority to please stock-holders and pay their employees, they are INVESTING in Linux. Not assimilating it. Expect Microsoft to make investments into distributions that they see going places to compete against them. This isn't just happening with Linux.

Microsoft is making a lot of investments to ensure profits long after the Windows gold mine is gone.

Novell's response to the community flying off the handle for a statement taken out of context: http://www.novell.com/prblogs/?p=303

graabein
March 17th, 2007, 12:06 PM
Novell is a crap company. Forget about them.