I keep coming back to Gnome

[Psquared]

One of my favorite things to do is to experiment with different WMs and DEs. On Fedora I started out with Gnome and KDE. I quickly learned to dislike KDE. I tried Enlightenment, Afterstep and Xfce but disliked them all for varying reasons.

With Ubuntu all I got was Gnome so I have worked with it most of the time. I have now installed several other WMs in Ubuntu and tried them, but I keep coming back to Gnome for various reasons. Mostly it has to do with shortcomings of the others.

Gnome/Metacity seems to have gotten bloated and its not all I'd like it to be, but it is the most complete of the three major DEs. The other WMs require a lot of work and at the end of the day you still don't have everything.

The closest I have come has been with Fluxbox followed by Afterstep. For pure speed Fluxbox is the best. Afterstep is unique with its dockapps, but they take up too much space on the desktop. FVWM has a huge learning curve. I plan to play around with it some more to see if I can get it to where I want it, but for now, Gnome is pretty much what I want.

Of the alternatives (I have not tried iceWM because I don't want something like W$) Fluxbox comes closest. I have worked with the menus and the themes so that I can make it look pretty. However, Rhythmbox won't work and I can't access the network configurations. My wifi keeps quitting on me in Fluxbox - especially when using gDesklets.

So, I keep coming back to Gnome. I hope that the next versions can be made a little faster and the menu more customizable. It may be that what I need is a different WM than Metacity so that is something I will try later. Maybe Fluxbox as WM under Gnome -- or Sawfish.

[shakin]

Interestingly, I have been a Gnome fan for a long time and have used it with every distro except for Suse. I spent six months with Gnome on Ubuntu and about a month ago I switched to KDE just to try it out. While it was rough at first, I tore down the default panels and created my own and now I love it. All my apps are along the bottom as big icons and now the interface doesn't get in my way like the default KDE did. I managed to get a better Gnome interface using gDesklets, but that was to RAM-hungry. My KDE interface is easily on par with, or possibly better than, my Gnome's was without gDesklets.

IMO, KDE fills in a few holes that Gnome has, like with the excellent Control Center. I also really enjoy Konqueror as a file manager and its tabs are excellent... just like when I learned to love web browser tabs. Konq also allows me to do simple things like press the a letter key to highlight the first found folder or file beginning with that letter, then press the letter repeatedly to toggle through all folders and files beginning with that letter. Nautilus doesn't let me repeatedly press the letter, as it stops after the first found folder or file.

While Gnome's Places menu is excellent and I wish KDE had such a menu, KDE's Network Folders is more flexible than adding them to the Places menu. In KDE I don't have to have those folders sitting on my desktop. The ones I use a lot I added to my panel and a couple others sit nicely in the K menu until I need them. KDE also has a lot of nice little utilities such as KFloppy, Kompose and KPDF. There seems to be better cohesiveness between KDE apps than between Gnome apps.

Also, while K3B, Quanta and Kopete are great KDE apps, I found after using Ubuntu with Gnome for so long that many of my favourite apps are GTK-based and are slow to launch in KDE. Firefox is the biggest problem as I can't get used to Konq as a browser (it seems to want to be a file manager so much that basic browser functionality is missing... but the biggest problem is lack of rocker gestures). Gedit is also better than Kate and gFTP is a solid FTP client. Kynaptic also pales in comparison to Synaptic. KMail just can't match Evolution feature for feature.

I think the hardest part about being a Linux desktop user is that many WMs and DEs offer compelling advantages over the others, but none seem to fit perfectly where I (and most other people I know) want them. It's pretty annoying that neither DE can successfully place windows where I last had them open. Now to be fair, neither Windows or OS X do any better useability or feature-wise. Gnome and KDE offer more features for me than either Win or Mac. I sometimes agree with people who say Linux would be better off with a unified DE. While choice is great, if we were to have the best features of Gnome combined with the best features of KDE, it would be an interface that *nobody* could beat.

I'll probably switch back to Gnome sometime this summer just for fun. I wonder if like you, I'm destined to keep coming back to Gnome? I sort of hope not, because there is so much wonderful work going on outside of the Gnome world that I'd hate to miss it.

[poofyhairguy]

Metacity is the big problem. Replace it out and Gnome gets better RAM wise (less applets help as well).

[tread]

Actually, more than metacity its nautilus painting the desktop thats the hog. I stopped that, and now openbox+gnome-panel just a little less memory than metacity+gnome-panel ..

I'd like to seup pypanel properly, but gnome-panel .. esp. the customized ubuntu menu is what really keeps me using gnome as it is.

[Psquared]

Metacity is the big problem. Replace it out and Gnome gets better RAM wise (less applets help as well).

Replace it with what? Sawfish, Fluxbox, Openbox?? If I do so what Gnome functionality will I lose?

Also, a quick tutorial on how to change WMs in Gnome would be helpful.

Thanks.

[Psquared]

Actually, more than metacity its nautilus painting the desktop thats the hog. I stopped that, and now openbox+gnome-panel just a little less memory than metacity+gnome-panel ..

I'd like to seup pypanel properly, but gnome-panel .. esp. the customized ubuntu menu is what really keeps me using gnome as it is.

How did you do that?

1) Stop Nautilus (and what do you use for file managment)??

2) Setup Openbox + Gnome Panel?

A screenie please. ;)

[Lovechild]

Metacity is the big problem. Replace it out and Gnome gets better RAM wise (less applets help as well).

Or you could profile metacity and help the developers kill memory bugs.

[bored2k]

How did you do that?

1) Stop Nautilus (and what do you use for file managment)??

2) Setup Openbox + Gnome Panel?

A screenie please. ;)
1. Rox filer is pretty good.
2. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=34239&highlight=openbox

[brickbat]

Hi, Gnome is missing a pdf printer. I know about cups-pdf. I tried for a day and couldn't get it to work. It should just be standard like in KDE.

ciao
bb

[Psquared]

Hi, Gnome is missing a pdf printer. I know about cups-pdf. I tried for a day and couldn't get it to work. It should just be standard like in KDE.

ciao
bb

Not sure what you mean. I can print pdf files just fine in Gnome. I can use Xpdf, Evince or Acroread.

[Psquared]

1. Rox filer is pretty good.
2. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=34239&highlight=openbox


Thanks for the guide. I dropped in Openbox and it works fine. I first tried fluxbox, but it wouldn't work. I wonder if Wmaker or FVWM will work as drop replacements for Metacity?

[bored2k]

Thanks for the guide. I dropped in Openbox and it works fine. I first tried fluxbox, but it wouldn't work. I wonder if Wmaker or FVWM will work as drop replacements for Metacity?
I don't think so. That's what's good about Openbox, you dont have to go and learn new ways to configure everything :).

P.S. - I still love nautilus.

[Psquared]

I don't think so. That's what's good about Openbox, you dont have to go and learn new ways to configure everything :).

P.S. - I still love nautilus.

I actually kind of like nautilus too. I don't like the way it takes over, but I added "--no-desktop" as a precaution. I also have Rox-filer and XFFM, but mostly I use nautilus.

Thanks for the help on Openbox.

[Mez]

I've always been a nbit of a gnome geek ... but well... I got bored and downloaded kubuntu to see what it's like.

Now I don know what I'd do wtihout KDE...

Ok, so some of the apps used to look fugly.... but... I installed the gnome lbs and now they look perfectly fine, and I love the look of KDE..

Ok, so I've done a bit of customizing, but I really like KDE... ok, there are times when I get completely frustrated with ti... becuas eit works in a different way from gnome, or it has something differnt, or it' hasnt got an option that gnome has, or it has got an option gnome has, but in a different location

All those annoying little niggles, and then some big niggles, but - even though I've been tempted to imnstall gnome on kubuntu a couple of times now... I've always fdound a way round, and ended up liking KDE better for it. :D

[bored2k]

I've always been a nbit of a gnome geek ... but well... I got bored and downloaded kubuntu to see what it's like.

Now I don know what I'd do wtihout KDE...

Ok, so some of the apps used to look fugly.... but... I installed the gnome lbs and now they look perfectly fine, and I love the look of KDE..

Ok, so I've done a bit of customizing, but I really like KDE... ok, there are times when I get completely frustrated with ti... becuas eit works in a different way from gnome, or it has something differnt, or it' hasnt got an option that gnome has, or it has got an option gnome has, but in a different location

All those annoying little niggles, and then some big niggles, but - even though I've been tempted to imnstall gnome on kubuntu a couple of times now... I've always fdound a way round, and ended up liking KDE better for it. :D
I always hated KDE until I tried 3.4 a couple of weeks ago. The thing I liked was how every application seems to blend with kde itself (gwenview, noatun, kpdf, konqueror, etc). Problem was, I sort of like speed and my computer is not the best, so I went back. Yesterday I DID try out KDE 3.4.1, but I have customized GNOME so much I found 90% better on Gnome, so went back.

[Mez]

I totally agree .... Gnome is faster, but.... I can afford that loss in performance for purdyness... I like purdyness :d

I was sooo torn when i started to move to KDE, ebcuas eI've always hared it, but like you - I tried it out and lieed it :D

Ah well... I cant complain - it's not often an app i dislike changes my mind about it.... now if only Microsoft could make me change my mind about internet explorer ! :D

[bored2k]

now if only Microsoft could make me change my mind about internet explorer ! :D
Lol. If you haven't tried kompose out, I suggest you install it, it's a killer. It works just like expose (http://www.apple.com/macosx/features/expose/).

[Skraut]

While I'm new to Ubuntu, I've been using Gentoo Linux for the past 4 or so years. The whole WM issue has been the biggest source of frustration for me. Gnome, KDE, WindowMaker, FluxBox, BlackBox, OpenBox, XFCE, FVWM, E16, E17 I've used them all, and liked something about each one.

When I run Gnome, I miss K3B. When I run KDE I miss Evolution. For every WM there is software I like, and software I don't. But for me the biggest problem is as a part time developer is, once I get past the command line, I can't write software without excluding a portion of the Linux community. Not that I think everyone would use the software I write, but it is just frustrating that if I write GTK, and thinking, well everyone who uses KDE is going to ignore my software. If I write with QT, the opposite will happen.

Because I can't decide which to write in, I can't decide which to use on a daily basis. I can only assume I'm not alone with these issues.

[Ironi]

When I run Gnome, I miss K3B. When I run KDE I miss Evolution.

Because I can't decide which to write in, I can't decide which to use on a daily basis. I can only assume I'm not alone with these issues.
Umm, why not run KDE apps under GNOME and vice versa? Really, I don't understand why people have a problem with doing so. Especially when I can run e.g. Firefox under KDE just fine, and thanks to gtk-qt it looks like every other app.

[Psquared]

While I'm new to Ubuntu, I've been using Gentoo Linux for the past 4 or so years. The whole WM issue has been the biggest source of frustration for me. Gnome, KDE, WindowMaker, FluxBox, BlackBox, OpenBox, XFCE, FVWM, E16, E17 I've used them all, and liked something about each one.

When I run Gnome, I miss K3B. When I run KDE I miss Evolution. For every WM there is software I like, and software I don't. But for me the biggest problem is as a part time developer is, once I get past the command line, I can't write software without excluding a portion of the Linux community. Not that I think everyone would use the software I write, but it is just frustrating that if I write GTK, and thinking, well everyone who uses KDE is going to ignore my software. If I write with QT, the opposite will happen.

Because I can't decide which to write in, I can't decide which to use on a daily basis. I can only assume I'm not alone with these issues.

That's kinda my feeling too. I do think Gnomebaker is as good as K3B though.

I'm hoping that I can get Fluxbox configured the way I want it because it seems to me to offer the best compromise outside of Gnome, KDE and Xfce. Some of its shortcomings can be overcome by gDesklets, but they are such memory hogs it drives me crazy if I leave my PC for the day and come back to find it virtually locked up.

All I want is to be able to monitor my battery, my wifi connection, and my inbox.

[rosslaird]

Human nature is a funny thing. Last year, around the time Ubuntu was becoming popular, Gnome started to make substantial headway in terms of user preference. Previous to this, Gnome was typically criticized for being too simplistic and cludgy. But suddenly Gnome surged ahead, and I think this has much to do with Gnome's excellent implementation in Ubuntu. KDE became less popular among a large number of users, who complained that it was too cluttered, bloated, and ugly.

Months pass. The Kubuntu project begins. The project makes an excellent Ubuntu implementation of KDE. Users start to discover this. The ugliness seems to have faded, though some clutter remains in the menus.

Now, KDE is making a comeback, especially as the hype about 3.5 begins to ramp up. Gnome is suffering, especially as several widely-read news reports have talked about its tendency for simplicity and probable conservative future development. KDE, meanwhile remains committed to cutting-edge strategies.

What I'm suggesting is that these debates have almost nothing to do with the relative merits of the desktops. People respond to what others do, even in this open source world which claims all sorts of uniqueness for itself. People are people, and they typically follow the crowd. Those who don't follow the crowd are often isolated, or are in fact following the crowd after all (just a different crowd). Consider the Mac: a completely homogenized environment where everybody uses exactly the same hardware and software, but everyone boasts their ability to "think different."

Questions of quality or aesthetics or functionality in this debate are also mostly irrelevant. Better products are routinely trumped by those with a wider appeal: BetaMax vs. VHS, Linux vs. Microsoft, and countless other examples. People convince themselves that they're choosing on quality or functionality, but most actually choose what is most popular, and make rationalizations for their choice. Those rationalizations make us feel that we're unique, or hip, or in-the-know, but in fact we're just doing what everybody else does. That's human psychology. We're social animals. We go where the people are.

One way to explore this dynamic is to always choose the product that is second from the top in terms of popularity. Often, the contender works harder than the leader, making a better product (Linux is one of the best examples of this). The leader, conversely, becomes complacent, falls to second place, then becomes the contender. On it goes.

KDE on top, then Gnome on top, then KDE again. In a year, Gnome will be the star again, or maybe XFCE, or maybe something new.

In the Chinese philosophy of Taosim, there's a saying: when things are really bad, be happy -- because when things are at their worst, that means the pendulum will soon shift in the other direction.

Everything's on this pendulum, and it's good to see that out little desktop environment skirmishes are reflections of universal principles...

Ross