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nick.inspiron6400
March 5th, 2007, 03:10 PM
Hi,

Does anyone know a good book that will teach me both Java and NetBeans. I have no programming experience, so this book will have to be for the beginner.

Thanks,

Nick.

pmasiar
March 5th, 2007, 03:27 PM
Does anyone know a good book that will teach me both Java and NetBeans. I have no programming experience, so this book will have to be for the beginner.

As i just explained in this thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=376413), IMHO java is not good language for beginner - especially not good for self-learner. Try Python instead, when you will have better feel about programming, learn java or C++ or C# or whatever you need for job/carieer/task in hand.

To start with Python: http://learnpydia.pbwiki.com/HowToStart

That said, best book to learn Java IMHO is "Headfirst Java".

laxmanb
March 5th, 2007, 05:22 PM
Don't get too intimidated about Java...

http://www.netbeans.org/kb/articles/books.html

Has all the books that teach Java with Netbeans & links to the publisher/Amazon... there'll be reviews at Amazon/other online stores, so do some research before you buy...

Best of Luck!!

laxmanb
March 5th, 2007, 05:25 PM
This one has gr8 reviews:http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1584504269/104-8016468-2951926?v=glance&n=283155

rekahsoft
March 5th, 2007, 09:07 PM
As i just explained in this thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=376413), IMHO java is not good language for beginner - especially not good for self-learner. Try Python instead, when you will have better feel about programming, learn java or C++ or C# or whatever you need for job/carieer/task in hand.

To start with Python: http://learnpydia.pbwiki.com/HowToStart

That said, best book to learn Java IMHO is "Headfirst Java".

Java was my first language and i taught my self...i guess it depends on the person :D

kinson
March 6th, 2007, 02:13 AM
I think Java is fine for a beginner too, to be honest :)

Cheers,
Kinson.

nick.inspiron6400
March 7th, 2007, 10:30 PM
I think i should be fine with Java. I don't think it has anything to do with the type of person...

Nick.

P.S

There is a NetBeans book coming out anyway.

pmasiar
March 8th, 2007, 03:06 PM
To respond to all previuos posters, who like express personal opinion without any support to facts or anything, just gut feeling:

(1) By my gut feeling you guys do not have wide experience of learning/using multiple languages over many years. I do, and I base my advice on that. Most likely you know only Java.

(2) Keep in mind that first language is harder than second. So if you started with C++, Java may seem easier than that, and you may thing it would be better than C++ - and you are even right :-)

That is exactly the reason why I recommended to start with Python: you can write code and test it in the Python shell after 15 minutes of reading "Instant hacking" - linked from http://learnpydia.pbwiki.com/HowToStart . There is no way how you can execute any java code after 15 minutes of learnig java - even copy-paste helloWorld.java might take you more time due to setting java's Classpath.

OMG! I started again proving my opinions by facts.... and I promised to stick to gut feelings only :-)

BTW I do not intent to change anybody's opinion - I just thinked about it -- especially (2) -- and felt like writing it down. Maybe I should get a blog instead :-)

TheTank
March 9th, 2007, 11:38 AM
You should get your gut inspected before attacking people you don't know crap about.

Not to mention you are suggesting people learn a *script* language.

Getting Java to run on using an IDE does not take any more time.
It might take 15 minutes for a python fanboy, but for anyone not trying to make the language look bad, it

Of all the languages I know (Basic, Asm, Pascal, ObjectPascal, Modula2, C/C++/C#, Java (SE,ME,EE)+ Scripting Languages, in about that order, java was not my first language) I would currently recommend Java.

As for books, Bruce Eckel's Thinking In Java (http://www.mindview.net/Books/TIJ) is very good and free (please buy the book!)

Java has pros and cons but it will get the OP the furthest uppon a less frustrating path.

@rekahsoft:
Java was your first language and you teach it? Maybe you should read up what pmasiar posted about people who teach programming languages in the thread he linked.

Short version: people wo teach are the most incompetent programmers

kinson
March 9th, 2007, 11:49 AM
@rekahsoft:
Java was your first language and you teach it? Maybe you should read up what pmasiar posted about people who teach programming languages in the thread he linked.

Short version: people wo teach are the most incompetent programmers

Chill man. I think he meant his Java is "self taught/self learnt".

I don't know about only incompetent people teaching programming. I've had some bad bad programming teachers at college, but I've had one really really smart one too(he wasn't a good teacher, had an eye for the girls, but he was very competent).

Anyways, to each his own, as I always say :)

Cheers,
Kinson

pmasiar
March 9th, 2007, 05:52 PM
You should get your gut inspected before attacking people you don't know crap about.

Ah, there is nothing like fresh flamewars to start fresh day .... NOT!

Tank, I know nothing about you except you seems like new member here. Let me assure you in no ways I wanted to attack you, and I am really sorry you felt like that. Occasionaly I feel like I want to use "humor" and "irony" in my posts, and that was the case. I am sorry you missed it. I am also sure you would not want *me* to feel like you attacked *me*despite your tone. Or does your choice of nickname suggest you want to behave like "the tank"? I do hope not. Relax. We are all friends here with different opinions. You are as entitled to yours as I am entitled to mine.


Not to mention you are suggesting people learn a *script* language.

I was not aware that learning *script* language was against the law - I might missed the anoncement. :-) What is so inherently wrong in scripting languages that learning them need to be avoided at all cost? Or is it just your gut feeling? Would you mind if I suggest *you* to get *your* gut checked for allergy to scripting languages? :-) In case you missed it, I used irony again. What are your facts?


Getting Java to run on using an IDE does not take any more time.
It might take 15 minutes for a python fanboy, but for anyone not trying to make the language look bad, it [sic]

I am not sure I understand - did you finished your thought?


Of all the languages I know (Basic, Asm, Pascal, ObjectPascal, Modula2, C/C++/C#, Java (SE,ME,EE)+ Scripting Languages, in about that order, java was not my first language) I would currently recommend Java.

If you read my post more carefully, you would notice that my advice was:

learn basics of programming using Python, because in Python beginner can start playing with code without understanding what the "type" is and without having a clue about OOP. When beginner knows about variables, parameters, loops, lists etc, have clue what programming is all about, *then* is much better (IMHO) to dive into deep and confusing waters of OOP. Especially for self-learner OOP upfront might be confusing. IMHO, you are free to disagree, but please relax and argue with facts.

(1) serious question: Which scripting languges you have experience with? Why you feel so bad about scripting languages?

(2) Ironical question: Do you really want forbid beginners learning them, and why? :-)


As for books, Bruce Eckel's Thinking In Java (http://www.mindview.net/Books/TIJ) is very good and free (please buy the book!)

TheTank, you might be experienced programmer yoursef, but it seems to me that you forgot how you felt whan learning programming as a beginner. I love Bruce, I read his blog, value his advice etc (even met him once! :-p ) but he himself positions his "Thinking in Java" as a book for programmers with previous programming experience - and I agree with him 100%. It explains important, but subtle concepts, and it will be just way too confusing for self-taught beginner. And this is exactly *why* I value "thinking in Java" book - Bruce does not waste my time with another beginner book, and cuts to important stuff. Have you ever read "Headfirst java" book? Excellent for beginners, fun to read, rocommended. "Thinking" is great as 2nd or even 3rd book, IMHO. I have both in my library :-)


Java has pros and cons but it will get the OP the furthest uppon a less frustrating path.

I agree with Java being simpler OOP than C++, and good for career. I question your suggestion to start (for a self-learner) with OOP - I am suggestiong to learn basics first before diving into OOP. Maybe you were born with knowledge and understanding of OOP, but most people are not like that :-)

IMHO:
(1) programmer needs to know more languages to understand programming better, so knowing a scripting language helps and does not hurt
(2) learning basic concepts in Python forst, and *then* learning OOP (in Python, or Java, or whatever) is less frustrating path. You are free to disagree if you feel so, no problem.


Maybe you should read up what pmasiar posted about people who teach programming languages in the thread he linked.

Short version: people wo teach are the most incompetent programmers

It was another example of humor and irony which you missed completely. And it inspired me to add one more additions: Some people are so clueless, than even if employed as government regulators, their vast incompetence would be wasted - so they go post clueless advice on programming web forums :-)

Of course I did not meant you, unless you insist you are the doing that. :-) Your call.

rjfioravanti
March 9th, 2007, 05:59 PM
why does someone always have to be right?

just pick one


on a sidenote, what is the difference betwen learning netbeans and learning java?

kinson
March 9th, 2007, 06:15 PM
why does someone always have to be right?

just pick one


on a sidenote, what is the difference betwen learning netbeans and learning java?

Java is a programming language, whilst netbeans(or eclipse) is a IDE(Integrated development environment) (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_development_environment), which is used to help you design/code your Java apps(but is not restricted to Java only).

Its kinda like picking up workmanship skills, and getting the necessary skills. They're related, but separate things :)

Cheers,
Kinson

rjfioravanti
March 9th, 2007, 07:23 PM
what does Netbeans offer other than GUI builder?

kinson
March 10th, 2007, 05:22 AM
what does Netbeans offer other than GUI builder?

You'll have to remember that its realli just a tool. You can get the exact same results with coding Java from a text editor, just that it might be harder without the help.

Some of netbeans other features are probably code completion(I"m just guessing, I didn't check).

This (http://www.netbeans.org/products/ide/)should help you a lot more than I can :P

Cheers,
Kinson

pmasiar
March 10th, 2007, 11:43 PM
why does someone always have to be right?

just pick one


Do you know "Thinking in Java" book which TheTank recommended? Bruce starts (in first 30 pages) explaining how different is early binding of a OO method call used by C++ and late binding used by Java. It is flatly *wrong* advice to use it by a Java beginner. It is not about "just pick one" - picking "TIJ" is wrong. Do you disagree? Would you recommend it as a first Java book, against Bruce's own suggestion?

rest of my answer was just little fun. :-) TheTank tried trollishly to attack me by seriously misinterpreting my joke. So, IMHO more jokes are the best answer -- or would you prefer I responded by feeding the troll and I started serious flamewar? Nah, I prefer jokes.

rjfioravanti
March 11th, 2007, 08:13 PM
You're not just joking, you're aggrivating

on a public forum I believe it is good to offer what you think it is a good idea, not explain who you think is wrong, even if you have 'facts' to back it all up

TheTank offered his advice because it worked for him, not everyone has to learn OO programming the way you did