Dell preinstalled Linux (Idea Storm, etc.) Megathread

[Adamant1988]

http://www.dellideastorm.com/article/show/61771

Here is your chance to tell Dell that you want Linux from them. You want it available, you want it supported, but here's your change to show them.

Dell's ideastorm provides a digg like interface for sorting out which ideas are important to their buyers.

[maniacmusician]

thanks for that link, I threw in my vote. I hope this actually gets somewhere. Fully supported linux desktops? If Dell did that, it will become the kingpin of linux desktops (similar to how Nvidia is the kingpin of linux video cards).

However, I worry that Dell will throw in all their annoying advertising crap into it like they do with their windows machines. Corporations usually don't do Linux right.

[Sunflower1970]

Interesting.

I've not seen this site before. I lurk over on the dell forums, and noticed that their Linux sub-forum was back. It was gone for a while, then after some complaints (I guess) the site came back.

I know some people who have had nothing but trouble with Dell and their customer service, but so far, we have bought two Dell computers in the past, and have had very, very good luck with them, and excellent service. I know they're a bit more expensive, but the quality seems to be good....although I wonder if that may have changed with the recent troubles they've been having.

I know if they did give a choice of different distros, I'd be even more likely to buy from them again when we finally do decide to upgrade our Dell instead of me attempting to build a new computer.

[sloggerkhan]

I voted just cause I think it'd be nice to see someone big selling linux boxes.
Not that I own a dell. (IMO dell laptops are kinda crap.)

[PrinceArithon]

I voted, I sure hope that if this happens they pick Ubuntu.

[Adamant1988]

I voted, I sure hope that if this happens they pick Ubuntu.

Why? I don't want to start a distro war or anything, just curious. What makes Ubuntu more OEM friendly?

[bastiegast]

13239 Votes?? Wow that's quite a lot, isn't it? :guitar:

[Adamant1988]

13239 Votes?? Wow that's quite a lot, isn't it? :guitar:

And it still needs more. Companies like DELL need to be told to take Linux seriously.

[frup]

As much as i hate to admit it, Linspire would be better for the general population... they can move to Ubuntu after a few months. Kevin Carmony and Mike Robinson or whatever there names are should begin really contacting Dell... Mark Shuttleworth too.

[Adamant1988]

As much as i hate to admit it, Linspire would be better for the general population... they can move to Ubuntu after a few months. Kevin Carmony and Mike Robinson or whatever there names are should begin really contacting Dell... Mark Shuttleworth too.

Micheal Robertson*

Anywho, I would not (at this point) suggest Linspire for DELL, HP, etc. It's too out of date as it stands, it's not attractive enough, and CNR suffers many of the same problems (too out of date).

openSUSE 10.2 is a far more attractive solution in my opinion, and I'm sure that a good alternative to openSUSE's broken package management could be brought up for application installations.

[ubuntuman001]

what about dell's n-series desktops? those come preinstalled with no OS...

[tubasoldier]

I ran across a news article today that directed me to a site run by DELL.
http://www.dellideastorm.com/
You can vote for ideas to help Dell improve their service. So far Pre-Installed Linux is at the top!

I encourage you to go to the site and vote for what you want.

[Adamant1988]

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=365006


Maybe actually look all the way past the top 2 threads before you post?

[finer recliner]

voted for linux preinstall and no extra software option (top 2)

[FyreBrand]

what about dell's n-series desktops? those come preinstalled with no OS...Here is a link for n-series. I had to use Google to find it though. Dell doesn't like to direct you to their linux line. I can never get there via link or search once I'm in the main site.

Dell - Linux Engineering (http://linux.dell.com/desktops.shtml)

What's really interesting is they have a link to Ubuntu wiki there for hardware help.

[Skia_42]

23698, I like the idea but would personally rather support a company like system76 now that they're laptops are affordable. (starting at $699)

[FyreBrand]

23698, I like the idea but would personally rather support a company like system76 now that they're laptops are affordable. (starting at $699)
I agree. After that last post I went through the configurator for the n-series notebook and a standard Inspiron 1505. I could get an equal or slightly better system in the Windows section for almost $125 cheaper. That just doesn't make sense. System76 sounds like a good company.

I voted anyways.

[sloggerkhan]

the link for this must have been posted around. Linux preinstall is increasing by about 4/sec or so, sometime more....

[yopnono]

They have open a web page where you can submit your ideas of what like to see improved on DELL machines. Like Linux, better Linux driver support etc,etc

http://www.dellideastorm.com/

[Adamant1988]

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=365006

Please read past the first 2 posts to prevent unnecessary duplication of threads.

[yopnono]

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=365006

Please read past the first 2 posts to prevent unnecessary duplication of threads.

*sorry*

[aysiu]

They have open a web page where you can submit your ideas of what like to see improved on DELL machines. Like Linux, better Linux driver support etc,etc

http://www.dellideastorm.com/
Merged.

[gtratter]

Thanks for the link - I posted my 2 cents. I am on a Dell lapotp XPS|M140 and just discovered Ubuntu about 2 weeks ago.
If Dell would offer a laptop with Ubuntu pre-installed and I'd need a new machine - I would buy it in a heart beat.

BTW, except bluetooth syncing to my Palm Treo 650p - everything works on the laptop. :popcorn:

[aysiu]

I posted.

[m.musashi]

Why? I don't want to start a distro war or anything, just curious. What makes Ubuntu more OEM friendly?

I don't know about OEM friendly but my Dell laptop runs ubuntu like a charm. And I'm sure a big company like Dell can do an even better job than I at getting everything to work. Not that ubuntu is the only good distro out there. Let the customer choose between several options.

[Tuna-Fish]

seems to be down, or does it just lack capacity?

[3rdalbum]

It's just slow.

I think Linux Mint would be a good system for OEMs outside the US. It's attractive, comes with batteries included, and the developers make lots of nice GUI configuration tools of the type that Ubuntu is desperately lacking.

[Adamant1988]

It's just slow.

I think Linux Mint would be a good system for OEMs outside the US. It's attractive, comes with batteries included, and the developers make lots of nice GUI configuration tools of the type that Ubuntu is desperately lacking.
Doesn't it have a hefty amount of bugs?

[steven8]

Doesn't it have a hefty amount of bugs?

Not when I used it. It operated just fine.

[Adamant1988]

Not when I used it. It operated just fine.

Thanks for clarifying, I started downloading it when I was told it was pretty bug-ridden and wouldn't be good to use.

Also, remember about DELL. They're a US based company, being legal is of course a big deal to them.

[the_darkside_986]

I voted. I don't particularly care for Dell hardware but it would be good for a company to distribute preinstalled desktop Linux systems--not just empty, no-OS systems.

Dell should advertise two systems of exact same hardware on one page--one with Linux and one with Windows, and boldly display a $50-$100 price difference.

Ubuntu is as stable (or more) as Windows, and more secure, but when you start trying to do fancy things on either one (Beryl, VNC server, fancy directx gaming) , problems can occur. But Ubuntu is suitable for normal users.

[Anthem]

I actually don't care about Dell offering Linux laptops so much as making sure all of their laptops are fully Linux-compliant. If they'd simply buy only parts that have open-source drivers, that would go a long way.

And if they'd use LinuxBIOS, that would be even better.

[Adamant1988]

I voted. I don't particularly care for Dell hardware but it would be good for a company to distribute preinstalled desktop Linux systems--not just empty, no-OS systems.
Agreed.

Dell should advertise two systems of exact same hardware on one page--one with Linux and one with Windows, and boldly display a $50-$100 price difference.
There wouldn't be much of a price difference unless Microsoft decided to cut their pricing deals with DELL over this. After getting the company certified to handle the new line, making sure everything works, and so forth, I figure the costs will be similiar for a linux PC and a windows PC.

Ubuntu is as stable (or more) as Windows, and more secure, but when you start trying to do fancy things on either one (Beryl, VNC server, fancy directx gaming) , problems can occur. But Ubuntu is suitable for normal users.

But here's where you ask yourself, do you want your operating system acting as a moral compass? Because that's what Ubuntu tries to do. I may not speak for most users, but I certainly don't want my computer telling me what's right or wrong.

[m.musashi]

But here's where you ask yourself, do you want your operating system acting as a moral compass? Because that's what Ubuntu tries to do. I may not speak for most users, but I certainly don't want my computer telling me what's right or wrong.

I think that's a bit of an over-simplification. Ubuntu doesn't tell you what you can and can't do. Ubuntu only decides what it's going to be. You have the freedom (whether it's legal or not) to do as you wish once you install it. I don't think there is anything wrong with Ubutu wanting to keep its hands out of proprietary software, codecs and such (although I think they are rethinking this to some extent). However, if Dell or any other company is going to sell Linux PCs then they are going to have to customize the OS to some degree. Even windows won't play a DVD until you install the codecs.

[Adamant1988]

I think that's a bit of an over-simplification. Ubuntu doesn't tell you what you can and can't do. Ubuntu only decides what it's going to be. You have the freedom (whether it's legal or not) to do as you wish once you install it. I don't think there is anything wrong with Ubutu wanting to keep its hands out of proprietary software, codecs and such (although I think they are rethinking this to some extent). However, if Dell or any other company is going to sell Linux PCs then they are going to have to customize the OS to some degree. Even windows won't play a DVD until you install the codecs.

It's not an over-simplification. When I install mp3 codecs I don't want my Operating system telling me that it is or isn't a good idea to do so. You can't tell me that Ubuntu doesn't try to do that.

[ubu-for]

This could be a real breakthrough, if Dell would give Open Source a chance. So please support Open Source and vote here (http://www.dellideastorm.com/popular) for Linux and OpenOffice.org.

P.S. Sorry for the double post.

[FyreBrand]

I voted. I don't particularly care for Dell hardware but it would be good for a company to distribute preinstalled desktop Linux systems--not just empty, no-OS systems.

Dell should advertise two systems of exact same hardware on one page--one with Linux and one with Windows, and boldly display a $50-$100 price difference.

Ubuntu is as stable (or more) as Windows, and more secure, but when you start trying to do fancy things on either one (Beryl, VNC server, fancy directx gaming) , problems can occur. But Ubuntu is suitable for normal users.I configured an n-series laptop and an Inspiron 1505 and the Windows laptop came out almost $125 cheaper for nearly the same hardware. The twos system configurators didn't offer exactly the same hardware item for item. In fact the n-series had a few more options towards the lower end and the Inspiron Windows machine had higher end options. I found it odd that you could configure exactly the same systems and just choose the free dos install over the windows install.

I have an unverifiable hunch that the Windows system is cheaper because Dell loads so much more crap software on it that helps subsidize the cost. Basically I think it would be a better deal to just order the 1505 with Windows installed and nuke it rather than get weaker hardware for a little more money.

[m.musashi]

It's not an over-simplification. When I install mp3 codecs I don't want my Operating system telling me that it is or isn't a good idea to do so. You can't tell me that Ubuntu doesn't try to do that.

I have mp3 and dvd codecs on my Ubuntu install and I don't recall every having Ubuntu tell me it's not a good idea. I think it's fair to say it is a philosophical belief among the core developers, but once you download and install it the OS doesn't say you can do this but you shouldn't do that. I know automatix asks to you agree to not install anything anything illegal in your area but that isn't the same as saying you shouldn't and it isn't even coming from the OS.

[Quillz]

Personally, I'd prefer a "No OS" option over pre-installed Linux. Because a "No OS" option would also guarantee you get a completely clean installation. You add only what you want, and get nothing you don't need.

[aysiu]

Personally, I'd prefer a "No OS" option over pre-installed Linux. Because a "No OS" option would also guarantee you get a completely clean installation. You add only what you want, and get nothing you don't need.
If you're going to boot up the disk and do a clean install anyway, why does it matter to you whether it's preinstalled Linux or no-OS?

Here's the difference:

Preinstalled Linux
Me - Use what's already there [no work]
You - Install your distro of choice from scratch [same work]

no-OS
Me - Install distro of choice from scratch [more work]
You - Install your distro of choice from scratch [same work]

What's the advantage then of no-OS apart from forcing people to install Linux themselves? If you want to install it, it shouldn't matter to you either way.

[Quillz]

Because I don't want to go through the extra step of booting up, and then reinstalling. I'd like to do it all at once. But also, I have enough experience to install a distro like Gentoo with little issue. So for me, having "No OS" is ideal. For others, they may prefer Linux pre-installed.

[Tomosaur]

I would like a variety of options - including no OS. Lots of people aren't confident installing their own operating system. For those, I think there should be a variety of Linux distributions (and Mac, and Windows) available pre-installed. Let people pick whatever they wish to use. If they can't find a PC with their choice of distro - then they can ask for it to be pre-installed at a small cost, or just handed the installation CD if they can't get it for themselves.

[aysiu]

Because I don't want to go through the extra step of booting up, and then reinstalling. I'd like to do it all at once. What's to stop you from installing straight away on a Linux preinstalled? But also, I have enough experience to install a distro like Gentoo with little issue. So for me, having "No OS" is ideal. For others, they may prefer Linux pre-installed. As I said before, if Linux is preinstalled, you can still install Gentoo yourself.

[Oki]

I have also posted.

This would be good for everybody; you can decide if you want the OS that are pre installed, or install a new distro. No need to google after hardware that will work 100% with Linux. Dell is big, so this would make a pressure on the hardware manufactures in to ways. First; Dells selling more, other need to follow. Second; Dell choosing hardware that works with Linux. The “goodie part”; We know what ms would think of it:-D


48 350 has voted now – and the site are down again!

[dca]

It's a crap shoot. How would they decide which OS to apply? This is a game. It will work two-fold, it will put Dell back on top (as far as regaining what was lost from HP) from a computer manf standpoint because everyone will sing praises about an OEM installing Linux etc etc and it will help them force M$ to lower the cost of OEM OS installs... It will only help Dell in the end, so it doesn't bother me if they pre-install Linux or not.

The funny thing is the Linux boxes will probably ending up costing more (compared to Windows) because of some hardware compatability issue anyways...

[m.musashi]

The funny thing is the Linux boxes will probably ending up costing more (compared to Windows) because of some hardware compatability issue anyways...

I don't think it will cost more because of hardware compatability. My dell laptop works perfectly with Ubuntu - wireless, graphics, even suspend although I have to tell it to - it doesn't time out. However, that should be an easy fix for them.

No, I think it will cost more because Dell won't get a kickback from aol, mcafee and all the other companies that pay to have their crapware preinstalled. Either that, or Dell will find a way to install the crapware.

[aysiu]

I don't think it will cost more because of hardware compatability. My dell laptop works perfectly with Ubuntu - wireless, graphics, even suspend although I have to tell it to - it doesn't time out. However, that should be an easy fix for them.

No, I think it will cost more because Dell won't get a kickback from aol, mcafee and all the other companies that pay to have their crapware preinstalled. Either that, or Dell will find a way to install the crapware.
Mepis has Earthlink crapware right now. I'm sure Dell can throw in some stuff...

[m.musashi]

Mepis has Earthlink crapware right now. I'm sure Dell can throw in some stuff...

If they ever offer a pre-installed Linux I'm sure they will. I bet it will also be some hack job running in WINE meaning that a Dell based Linux box will still not be totally MS free. I wouldn't be surprised if somehow MS code (VB or something - I don't know much about programming) gets used to run the crapware. How does Mepis do it? Is it a native app?

[aysiu]

How does Mepis do it? Is it a native app? I don't know. I don't even know what it's for. I just know that in Mepis 6, there's an Earthlink icon on the default desktop. I'm assuming it takes you to a webpage to sign up for some Earthlink service (DSL or whatever).

[m.musashi]

Yeah, I suppose a lot of that stuff is just web links that take you to a site to enter credit card info. However, I seem to recall that the aol stuff as well as the virus apps were large installs (based on the fact that the add-remove page listed some 10s of MBs for the file size and an actual uninstall program had to run). You can't just delete the icon and get rid of it. Likewise, you can't get rid of outlook express no matter what. I have removed it and disabled it but anytime I click on a mailto link it pops up (I don't have anything else configured because I only use web mail).

Even Dell's business computers come with a bunch of crapware - though no where near as much as consumer models. It takes me a good 30-45 minutes to clean one up.

[aysiu]

According to this DesktopLinux.com article (http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS8382062536.html), Dell is giving the Linux items on IdeaStorm their "full attention," whatever that means: As for this wave of support for the Linux desktop, Pearson said that "We are immediately sharing these ideas throughout our company, so that our managers can determine what we should do and/or some of the ideas will trigger others. Later this week, we will start posting those ideas where we have or will soon take action."

While "I can't speak specifically to Linux," Pearson said, "I can assure you it is getting full attention."

[mehaga]

Have a look at this http://www.dellideastorm.com/

[aysiu]

I've merged a couple similar threads in here.

[wersdaluv]

People contribute and promote good ideas on Dell's Idea Strorm (http://www.microsoft.com/products/works/default.mspx).

Please go to the link above and promote ideas you like there.

Currently, the most popular idea is "Pre-Installed Linux | Ubuntu | Fedora | OpenSUSE | Multi-Boot."

[nick.inspiron6400]

I voted.

I want to see choice, and Microsoft's monopoly ended.

Ubuntu = Freedom,Choice,Pure.
Windows = Con,Huge costs,Prisoned.

[newbie2]

Dell Gives Desktop Linux Its 'Full Attention'
That's good news, but what's better news is that Dell is taking it seriously. In a brief email exchange with Bob Pearson, Dell's vice president of corporate group communications, said, "You're right that Linux is one of the hottest topics on Idea Storm."
http://www.desktoplinux.com/news/NS8382062536.html
:)

[imhdd]

This is from ZDnet article today 2/21/07.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Burnette/?p=264&tag=nl.e539

"This weekend Dell launched a new customer feedback site with digg-like voting called "Dell IdeaStorm". After only two days, it already has >25,000 votes for pre-installing Linux on Dell PCs. So much for Dell's argument that there is no customer demand for Linux!"

[kalikiana]

So what? Basically this is what customers have said years ago already. However it is pleasant to imagine Dell make it actually happen. :)

[dtruesdale]

I wonder if Microsoft will pay them kickbacks like Intel to make this go away? If you can't beat them buy them.

[viciouslime]

This is great, come on everyone, get your votes in and let's see if we can convince dell to start shipping linux :)

[kondormid]

63047 today, hey hey this could be one of the first real examples of just how big the linux community is.

[Adamant1988]

So, what candidates should they be looking at for this pre-installation?

My vote(s) go to:
openSUSE
Fedora/RedHat (If a special distribution would be made for the desktop)


I find that these two distributions are good for pre-installation. They aren't the software embodiment of a moral idea (like Ubuntu and most debian distributions), they're not far behind but they're stable, they're polished, and the companies responsible for them are publicly held.

Potential pit-falls that DELL will have to overcome:

Hardware support
Software installation
I would be willing to be that a DELL version of CNR would not be unexpected here.
Selecting and supporting a distribution


That's all my opinion though, but it's stuff that needs to be thought about.

[Mr Wrath]

I talked to a Dell tech yesterday about a malfunctioning HD that I had in my Dell server running Debian. I asked him if he knew of many Dell servers having linux installed on them instead of using the default windows server OS that usually comes pre-installed...He told me that there are a lot more Dell servers running linux than people think. I thought that was funny to know.

[shareMenaPeace]

Can anyone provide a direct link to the VOTE?

I registered but im to ignorant to find the vote :)

[Mr Wrath]

63399 thus far...

[dtruesdale]

Can anyone provide a direct link to the VOTE?

I registered but im to ignorant to find the vote :)

Click the icon on the left next to the topic and that it to vote.

[sloggerkhan]

here's your link:
http://www.dellideastorm.com/

[Engnome]

here's your link:
http://www.dellideastorm.com/

It's down. Guess they got too much traffic, every tech news site has linked to them. (digg, slashdot, osnews, the fridge...)

Edit: Back up again...

[equal]

I posted a comment. I've never purchased a Dell PC, but if they offered a Linux option, I'd strongly consider it for my next PC purchase.

[rsambuca]

Another article here (http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,2097094,00.asp?kc=EWRSS03129TX1K0000616)

[BigBabyDaddy1968]

Thanks for the links. I bought a Dell PC last Dec. along with a voucher for Vista Home Premium, thinking that would be a good idea...then I started reading about Vista...then got a little sick at the idea of putting that on my machine, so looked for an alternative...so here I am! For better or worse, depending on one's POV....

:)

[aysiu]

Merged a bunch into this thread.

[m.musashi]

So, what candidates should they be looking at for this pre-installation?

My vote(s) go to:
openSUSE
Fedora/RedHat (If a special distribution would be made for the desktop)

Fedora would be a good option (although I don't care much for RPM) but after reading this article (http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/1000121) I would not opt for suse. Of course, the key idea is choice. I hope if Dell does do this they offer a choice of several distros and as well as the choice for no distro.

[Adamant1988]

Fedora would be a good option (although I don't care much for RPM) but after reading this article (http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/1000121) I would not opt for suse. Of course, the key idea is choice. I hope if Dell does do this they offer a choice of several distros and as well as the choice for no distro.

They have to support every distribution they select. I can't see them picking up multiples, that's asking far too much.


openSUSE is a prime candidate for this. Fedora could be made into one, but right now it just moves too fast for the average home user (500 MB of updates in a week? seriously.)

If a new version of Red Hat Linux were to be produced from Fedora that was aimed at the home user I could certainly see DELL selecting that. As it stands though openSUSE is the best option for OEMs they've got the polish and the talent there.

[Guitar John]

I thought this might be of interest to some folks. Since both of my computers are Dells, it got my attention.

Apologies if someone else has already posted this.

http://www.techspot.com/news/24406-dell-customers-demand-linux.html

[cantormath]

I thought this might be of interest to some folks. Since both of my computers are Dells, it got my attention.

Apologies if someone else has already posted this.

http://www.techspot.com/news/24406-dell-customers-demand-linux.html

this is the real story
http://www.dellideastorm.com/

[bapoumba]

Thread merged.

[aysiu]

I'd just like to say for the record that I will be extremely disappointed if the Linux community actually convinces Dell to preinstall Linux and then...

... very few people from the Linux community actually buy from Dell because they'd rather build their own computers from scratch.

Companies like Dell care mainly about their shareholders--that means money.

If Dell actually goes through with preinstalling a major line of computers (prominently displayed on their website) with a Linux distro (or a handful of distros), people had better put their money where their mouths were and actually buy those!

[aktiwers]

I was there 8 months ago looking for a Linux Laptop.. I didnt find any so I got a MAC. Else I would have done it!

[maniacmusician]

I was there 8 months ago looking for a Linux Laptop.. I didnt find any so I got a MAC. Else I would have done it!
Yes, laptops are the critical sellers...if Dell wants to make money from Linux, Linux on laptops is the way to go.

As aysiu pointed out, many Linux users, including myself, like to build their desktop computers instead of buying one. It (1) saves us the hassle of an Windows license and (2) gives us much more control over what we put into our computers.

But building laptops is neither fun nor beneficial for most people, so almost everyone buys them from a company like Dell. Now, if they were selling laptops with say, Ubuntu, pre-installed, that would make my choice of who to buy from, a lot simpler.

On top of that, it is a more beneficial situation for Dell financially. A lot more revenue than if they just stick it on Desktops.

[sloggerkhan]

I agree laptops are key... though I recall last time I looked HP had some better (IMO) deals. Even puting linux on one won't matter too much if you can get a better deal by $1-200.

[maniacmusician]

I agree laptops are key... though I recall last time I looked HP had some better (IMO) deals. Even puting linux on one won't matter too much if you can get a better deal by $1-200.
it will if that guarantees complete compatibility with all features....hibernation, suspending, webcam, microphone, etc. Some laptops have things like fingerprint readers. I mean, a lot of people would spend a little extra to make sure they won't have to spend hours or days or weeks trying to make something work.

[m.musashi]

I'd just like to say for the record that I will be extremely disappointed if the Linux community actually convinces Dell to preinstall Linux and then...

... very few people from the Linux community actually buy from Dell because they'd rather build their own computers from scratch.

Companies like Dell care mainly about their shareholders--that means money.

If Dell actually goes through with preinstalling a major line of computers (prominently displayed on their website) with a Linux distro (or a handful of distros), people had better put their money where their mouths were and actually buy those!

That's a good point. While I'd love to see some big company sell Linux boxes/laptop, I'm not sure I'd buy a Dell. I have several now and they all are fine but I think my next laptop (I'll probably never buy a prebuilt desktop again) will be a Lenovo. Of course, if Dell is the only one selling Linux laptops then I might just have to get a Dell. But there are several smaller companies that already sell Linux computers so I might end up supporting them anyway.

However, while Linux geeks may not jump on the Dell-Linux bandwagon, I wonder how many average folk will opt for a Linux computer. They may know little about it but if it's a clear option with the same level of support (and of course pre-installed) I'm sure some percentage of people will buy them.

[Adamant1988]

That's a good point. While I'd love to see some big company sell Linux boxes/laptop, I'm not sure I'd buy a Dell. I have several now and they all are fine but I think my next laptop (I'll probably never buy a prebuilt desktop again) will be a Lenovo. Of course, if Dell is the only one selling Linux laptops then I might just have to get a Dell. But there are several smaller companies that already sell Linux computers so I might end up supporting them anyway.

However, while Linux geeks may not jump on the Dell-Linux bandwagon, I wonder how many average folk will opt for a Linux computer. They may know little about it but if it's a clear option with the same level of support (and of course pre-installed) I'm sure some percentage of people will buy them.

DELL is going through some changes right now. Before they were all about efficiency, and now, with the return of Micheal Dell, they are about the customer (supposedly). This kind of change is great for the customer, and is a trend we should encourage. Active participation in DELL's programs like Ideastorm let's them know what we, as consumers, want.

Now, many Linux geeks will build their own personal system. However, it's worth noting that as a "Linux geek" I don't build my own laptops (even though I use one more than my desktop) and I don't build computers for my family. It's much easier for me to point my family in the direction of an OEM and help them pick out the parts than it is to custom build something for them.

I would like to say that the option for Dell to push this "new" Linux operating system on consumers are very abundant. The first thing that DELL needs to do is raise understanding about Linux. Dell ideastorm has merely shown Dell that the informed consumers want Linux, however the "Mindless masses" probably still have no clue about it. Generally speaking they can play to the largest consumer base, and start pushing Linux awareness, or they can play to the informed niche and quietly release linux support for select models.

Either way word of mouth advertising about this will be huge, as the informed consumers are often making buying choices for the "mindless" consumers. I know that my family comes to me whenever they're picking out a new PC, and that I'm not alone in that. If DELL does follow through and offer Linux as a pre-installation option, you can bet your bottom dollar they probably won't even have to advertise it themselves. DELL is becoming a much more friendly company, it appears, and since they're buckling to the consumer it would seem that they could very well catapult themselves to the number 1 OEM in the nation. Other large OEMs would of course follow suit, in offering Linux, trying to keep up with their biggest competitor.

I predict that Microsoft is going to be very angry about this. I have to wonder if the price on Windows machines is going to become a lot more substantial when all those bulk discounts get taken away from DELL

[aidanr]

I'd just like to say for the record that I will be extremely disappointed if the Linux community actually convinces Dell to preinstall Linux and then...

... very few people from the Linux community actually buy from Dell because they'd rather build their own computers from scratch.

Companies like Dell care mainly about their shareholders--that means money.

If Dell actually goes through with preinstalling a major line of computers (prominently displayed on their website) with a Linux distro (or a handful of distros), people had better put their money where their mouths were and actually buy those!

i would so buy a dell laptop if it came preinstalled with linux for a few reasons, it would save a lot of time, all the hardware would be compatible, i wouldn't be paying the windows tax etc etc

i would go and buy a system76 laptop right now if they were available in europe

speaking of system76, if dell do provide linux as an option, wouldn't that really hurt system76's business? i think both companies would probably benefit by dell buying them

[Adamant1988]

honestly it would probably kill system76. Which is unfortunate, but that's what happens when the big guys step in.

[maniacmusician]

Yes, it would almost definitely crush System76. Perhaps the wise thing for S76 to do would be to contact Dell to do a merger-type of thing. System76 could become a subsection of Dell, and use their expertise to infinitely increase Dell's capability to cater to Linux users. Plus, System76 would have the financial backing they've always needed, and would be able to offer their products at a competitive price.

It sounds a bit dreamy, of course. Probably won't happen.

[Quillz]

Microsoft's monopoly will not end anytime soon. Just because Dell will offer Linux doesn't mean people are suddenly going to stop using Windows.

[Tomosaur]

Microsoft's monopoly will not end anytime soon. Just because Dell will offer Linux doesn't mean people are suddenly going to stop using Windows.

No, but people who no longer wish to use Windows are those pushing Dell to offer Linux.

[maniacmusician]

Of course not, but having a big hardware player offering Linux desktop will be a huge, unprecedented step. I don't think that anyone is assuming this will end Microsoft's monopoly.

[bastiegast]

Hope this has not been posted before.

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/ideastorm/ideasinaction?c=us&l=en&s=gen

Pre-Installed Linux Options
It’s exciting to see the IdeaStorm community’s interest in open source solutions like Linux and OpenOffice. Your feedback has been all about flexibility and we have seen a consistent request to provide platforms that allow people to install their operating system of choice. We are listening, and as a result, we are working with Novell to certify our corporate client products for Linux, including our OptiPlex desktops, Latitude notebooks and Dell Precision workstations. This is another step towards ensuring that our customers have a good experience with Linux on our systems.

As this community knows, there is no single customer preference for a distribution of Linux. In the last week, the IdeaStorm community suggested more than half a dozen distributions. We don't want to pick one distribution and alienate users with a preference for another. We want users to have the opportunity to help define the market for Linux on desktop and notebook systems. In addition to working with Novell, we are also working with other distributors and evaluating the possibility of additional certifications across our product line. We are continuing to investigate your other Linux-related ideas, so please continue to check here for updates.

To read about the recent addition of Latitude notebooks to our n-series family, read Direct2Dell from one of Dell’s Linux solution architects, or visit www.dell.com/linux and www.dell.com/nseries.

This is a respond to the dell idea storm (http://www.dellideastorm.com/popular/)
Looks like dell is taking us (linux users) seriously. Note that the top voted idea suggests offering Ubuntu fedora and openSUSE as a choice. I think that's the best solution to the problem of which distro to use. Read the second paragraph and see their planning to work with other distributors than novell as well, when will they contact Canonical?

[steven8]

That is most excellent! If Dell moves forward with this, no one can ignore this type of major player working with Linux!!

[TheMono]

Good work Dell. They would certainly get my business if they could a) stick on their webpage 'hardware certified for linux' for whichever models, and b) sell without windows. I'd be happy to install my own linux even, just don't charge me for Windows!

[sal]

gee, going with novell's offerings are we dell. good thing your not trying to **** of msft in the process.

[Gargamella]

I am really happy for that, it means they really care about us...and they want to take forward this project...I am really happy, we will may see complete competitive linux products

[Tuna-Fish]

The first thing to point out s that dell, actually, does already sell linux desktops. They got a line for home office or whatnot.

The question is will they sell and market linux as an alternative to an average user, not hidden behind x^n links on their homepage. Also, suse is a good starting choice not just because of the ms deal but also because there is already a wide network for support.

[bastiegast]

The first thing to point out s that dell, actually, does already sell linux desktops. They got a line for home office or whatnot.

The question is will they sell and market linux as an alternative to an average user, not hidden behind x^n links on their homepage. Also, suse is a good starting choice not just because of the ms deal but also because there is already a wide network for support.

Well those are workstations, not desktops. They also of some Desktops without an OS preoloaded, see linux.dell.com and dell.com/linux. I think this is different since they say their now in progress to actively support linux, make their desktops linux compliant and maybe even pre installing linux one day.

[cowlip]

Good work Dell. They would certainly get my business if they could a) stick on their webpage 'hardware certified for linux' for whichever models, and b) sell without windows. I'd be happy to install my own linux even, just don't charge me for Windows!

and yet you still get to pay Microsoft through SUSE royalties, IIRC on every SUSE sold.

[sloggerkhan]

It's impossible to easily find the 'open source' notebook section by going through their regular site. If they don't change it soon, they're not really serious. Their 'open source' NB section is also not the most competitive section feature/price wise.

As a potential customer, I'd go to their site, click on laptops, and not find what I want because all the obvious selections only allow you to choose MS and I'd just assume there's not a way to get no OS.

[Arathorn]

gee, going with novell's offerings are we dell. good thing your not trying to **** of msft in the process.
Have you read the press statement?
We don't want to pick one distribution and alienate users with a preference for another. We want users to have the opportunity to help define the market for Linux on desktop and notebook systems. In addition to working with Novell, we are also working with other distributors and evaluating the possibility of additional certifications across our product line.
So not just Novell. Jeesh, some people will try to whine about anything.

[raublekick]

Hey pretty cool. I'm happy with my Dell in Linux right now, but I had to completely ditch the Windows install (pre-installed, installer on drive, lost both).

Even if they use SLED, at least that's a sign that the hardware works in SOME distro, and probably can be used with others as well. Maybe not as easily, but it could be done.

If they add other distro support, well, that would just be the bee's knees.

[Adamant1988]

gee, going with novell's offerings are we dell. good thing your not trying to **** of msft in the process.

Novell offers one of the strongest linux distributions to date. What's your point?

[sal]

Novell offers one of the strongest linux distributions to date. What's your point?


SLED is ok, IMO ubuntu is better once configured in the proper fashion.

my point is that with novell in the pocket of msft, it's not like msft is loosing anything by this dell situation. if dell really wants to go with a linux distro pre-installed why not ubuntu/kubuntu or even Redhat.

[PrinceArithon]

Why? I don't want to start a distro war or anything, just curious. What makes Ubuntu more OEM friendly?

Really simple. Once it's configured and installed properly, everything is fine with Ubuntu and it's easier to use.

Also it's my favorite Distro lol.

I will admit there are other really good ones out there that could be put on. I don't deny that SuSe still is amazing, and I won't knock Knoppix, Linspire was pretty cool from what I have seen of it. The thing is I just prefer Ubuntu myself. This is why I prefer them to use Ubuntu. See, I like Dell. When I buy a computer from Dell I would love to have Ubuntu already on it, instead of taking the time to get rid of another Distro and dump Ubuntu back on. Sure it's that that hard to do...but it's time consuming, and time is something I don't have a lot of.

So further more, this is the reason why I hope for Ubuntu. So it's nothing along the lines of feeling that Ubuntu is superior and the rest of the distros suck. It's along the lines of I'm a lazy b**stard and I want things simple and easy for myself. LOL

[bastiegast]

Novell offers one of the strongest linux distributions to date. What's your point?

Ubuntu package management vs. Extremely slow SUSE's RPM based Package management intergrated in YaST which has a illogical broken Qt interface even though SUSE now is GNOME based. Alright that last part may be just my opinion but you have to agree aptitude kicks *** compared to SUSE's package management

[sloggerkhan]

plus SUSE comes up with stuff like the idiotic "control center"

[Polygon]

i registered and voted. Its intresting that after i voted, i was taken to the "recent ideas" and almost all of them were "preinstall linux" or "have linux drivers for all of your hardware available". its good to see that everyone is trying to convince dell to do this

even if it does come preinstalled with a different distro of linux, the drivers will be available (and hopefully open source) and they should be there for other distos to use them, so its just a matter or replacing the pre-installed distro with ubuntu and you should be good.

[Adamant1988]

SLED is ok, IMO ubuntu is better once configured in the proper fashion.

my point is that with novell in the pocket of msft, it's not like msft is loosing anything by this dell situation. if dell really wants to go with a linux distro pre-installed why not ubuntu/kubuntu or even Redhat.

So, what you're saying is that offering consumer choice while keeping Microsoft happy is a bad thing?

Red Hat does not have a consumer offering, they have a corporate offering, and if you look at the machines Dell offers you'll see that they already have that. Fedora is not suitable for consumers. Novell however, is a publicly held company, and a rival to Red Hat and has both a corporate and a consumer based version of it's operating system. They consistently release some one of the most polished distributions I can think of.

Honestly, if Canonical were a publicly held company that consistently produced an extremely polished distribution then I would say "Great, use ubuntu". But if I were a large OEM I would shy from Ubuntu for several reasons. It's a young distribution with only a few releases under it's belt, the quality of the distribution is questionable (I've heard it said in #ubuntuforums that "Ubuntu is an amateurish mess"), Canonical is privately held meaning shuttleworth can pull the plug at any time on funding, etc.

[spockrock]

in response to the dell looking into it, I think this may help linux out big time if and only if there is a dual boot option (which is free) and or there is a linux only option that costs less then the same system without windows.

[Oki]

«plus SUSE comes up with stuff like the idiotic "control center"»

Well I find the control center, as in Kubuntu, to be very good. And the next Ubuntu will also have one; http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=207894


«Canonical is privately held meaning Shuttleworth can pull the plug at any time on funding, etc.»
No, thats not correct. Mark has given so much money for the Ubuntu project that it will be founded even if he left the ship, in our lifetime.

[Adamant1988]

«plus SUSE comes up with stuff like the idiotic "control center"»

Well I find the control center, as in Kubuntu, to be very good. And the next Ubuntu will also have one; http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=207894


«Canonical is privately held meaning Shuttleworth can pull the plug at any time on funding, etc.»
No, thats not correct. Mark has given so much money for the Ubuntu project that it will be founded even if he left the ship, in our lifetime.

Do you honestly believe that Mark doesn't have control of that money? I'm sure if he wanted it back he could get it. Even if he's dedicated the money, I'm sure he's still got enough control that if he wanted to pull out of the Ubuntu project, he could do it and take his money with him.

[FyreBrand]

So, what you're saying is that offering consumer choice while keeping Microsoft happy is a bad thing?

Red Hat does not have a consumer offering, they have a corporate offering, and if you look at the machines Dell offers you'll see that they already have that. Fedora is not suitable for consumers. Novell however, is a publicly held company, and a rival to Red Hat and has both a corporate and a consumer based version of it's operating system. They consistently release some one of the most polished distributions I can think of.

Honestly, if Canonical were a publicly held company that consistently produced an extremely polished distribution then I would say "Great, use ubuntu". But if I were a large OEM I would shy from Ubuntu for several reasons. It's a young distribution with only a few releases under it's belt, the quality of the distribution is questionable (I've heard it said in #ubuntuforums that "Ubuntu is an amateurish mess"), Canonical is privately held meaning shuttleworth can pull the plug at any time on funding, etc.Ubuntu is built on Debian which is one of the oldest most stable distributions there is. This isn't GOBO or some new invention. It is a fork of a long standing stable platform intended just for consumer use.

Before you start making ridiculous assumptions about the stability of Ubuntu based on something you invented about Canonical and funding you should back what you're saying up with facts so that it can be disputed or acknowledged. Just making something up doesn't make it true. If Mark can single handedly shut down Ubuntu then prove it. Until then that is just meaningless FUD.

[sloggerkhan]

Adamant, your post have sounded oddly unfriendly towards Ubuntu. What do you dislike about it? Why do you not think Ubuntu is a good OEM distro?

[Adamant1988]

Ubuntu is built on Debian which is one of the oldest most stable distributions there is. This isn't GOBO or some new invention. It is a fork of a long standing stable platform intended just for consumer use.

Before you start making ridiculous assumptions about the stability of Ubuntu based on something you invented about Canonical and funding you should back what you're saying up with facts so that it can be disputed or acknowledged. Just making something up doesn't make it true. If Mark can single handedly shut down Ubuntu then prove it. Until then that is just meaningless FUD.

They've broken X with updates HOW many times now? That speaks volumes right there. This "Fork" is incompatible with debian packages at this point, and is for all intents and purposes it's own distribution. Want to test my theory? Try using debian repos and watch the breakage you get.

If you need me to go and dig up "proof" that Canonical is a privately owned company funded almost entirely (if not entirely) by Mr.Shuttleworth then you obviously do not keep up with the times well. But perhaps I should clarify, Mark cannot kill Ubuntu the distribution completely, it's open source and community developed for the most part. However, what he can do is cut funding to it, which makes it, well, a community project. Now, as a large OEM like DELL would you trust a "project" over a distribution that is maintained by a large corporation with some staying power?

Canonical and Ubuntu do not have much of an established record, spending the time pre-installing and certifying against a distribution that could just up and disappear is a huge risk. Put yourself in the shoes of DELL, would you make that risk? We're not just speaking about stability here.

Before I (as an OEM) would consider using Ubuntu as a preinstalled distribution I would need to know that:

Canonical will continue to fund Ubuntu and keep it alive for years to come.

That there would be no more quality control issues (breaking X with updates is an example). Releases need to go smoothly and be of professional quality, not of "community project" quality.

and that Ubuntu is not under the complete control of Mr. Shuttleworth. Mark has stayed out of the way for the most part, but he's shown his willingness to act as sabdfl when it suits him. I'm not going to trust pre-installing a distribution when a single man can do anything he wants with it's design.

You can call it "FUD" if you like, but take a step back and look at it from a large OEM's view. I'm not trying to cut down Ubuntu as a distribution, I'm saying the argument against pre-installation is solid, and that pre-installation of Ubuntu would mark a serious risk on any OEM's part. It doesn't mean that any of my points can or will happen, it means that the possibility is there, that the risk is there. Ubuntu has a very short track record and when developers acting as moderators on this forum (who will remain nameless) openly admit that ubuntu is "an amateurish mess" then I think that represents a risk.

[Adamant1988]

Adamant, your post have sounded oddly unfriendly towards Ubuntu. What do you dislike about it? Why do you not think Ubuntu is a good OEM distro?

I love Ubuntu. It's a great distribution. It's just not a good candidate for OEM installations for various reasons.

[FyreBrand]

They've broken X with updates HOW many times now? That speaks volumes right there. This "Fork" is incompatible with debian packages at this point, and is for all intents and purposes it's own distribution. Want to test my theory? Try using debian repos and watch the breakage you get.

If you need me to go and dig up "proof" that Canonical is a privately owned company funded almost entirely (if not entirely) by Mr.Shuttleworth then you obviously do not keep up with the times well. But perhaps I should clarify, Mark cannot kill Ubuntu the distribution completely, it's open source and community developed for the most part. However, what he can do is cut funding to it, which makes it, well, a community project. Now, as a large OEM like DELL would you trust a "project" over a distribution that is maintained by a large corporation with some staying power?

Canonical and Ubuntu do not have much of an established record, spending the time pre-installing and certifying against a distribution that could just up and disappear is a huge risk. Put yourself in the shoes of DELL, would you make that risk? We're not just speaking about stability here.

Before I (as an OEM) would consider using Ubuntu as a preinstalled distribution I would need to know that:

Canonical will continue to fund Ubuntu and keep it alive for years to come.

That there would be no more quality control issues (breaking X with updates is an example). Releases need to go smoothly and be of professional quality, not of "community project" quality.

and that Ubuntu is not under the complete control of Mr. Shuttleworth. Mark has stayed out of the way for the most part, but he's shown his willingness to act as sabdfl when it suits him. I'm not going to trust pre-installing a distribution when a single man can do anything he wants with it's design.

You can call it "FUD" if you like, but take a step back and look at it from a large OEM's view. I'm not trying to cut down Ubuntu as a distribution, I'm saying the argument against pre-installation is solid, and that pre-installation of Ubuntu would mark a serious risk on any OEM's part. It doesn't mean that any of my points can or will happen, it means that the possibility is there, that the risk is there. Ubuntu has a very short track record and when developers acting as moderators on this forum (who will remain nameless) openly admit that ubuntu is "an amateurish mess" then I think that represents a risk.X Breakage has nothing to do with this. Breakage on testing platforms is normal and expected. The stable releases have nearly no breakage and no more breakage than any other Linux distribution. Updates break on every distribution including SUSE and RedHat. The difference is that people are paying for support to fix it for them, which they can also do with Canonical.

I know that Canonical is investing in Ubuntu and that Mark is rich. The point is it's ridiculous to assume that a company that is financially responsible isn't going to take measure to protect it's investment. There are more people here than Mark that have a financial stake in Ubuntu. So what I'm saying is that before you invent a bunch of "what ifs" (like what if Mark decides to....) have the sense to back up what you're saying with facts, not conjecture.

I know you're not trying to cut down Ubuntu, but you are posturing yourself as a corporate and OEM expert which you're not. You don't have the legal, practical, or financial experience make those statements seriously, especially without solid facts and valid arguments. You have no real place speaking for OEM's or large corporations.

[aysiu]

Mark Shuttleworth cannot just pull funding at any time:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Foundation

[Adamant1988]

X Breakagge has nothing to do with this. Breakage on testing platforms is normal and expected. The stable releases have nearly no breakage and no more breakage than any other Linux distribution. Updates break on every distribution including SUSE and RedHat. The difference is that people are paying for support to fix it for them, which they can also do with Canonical.

I know that Canonical is investing in Ubuntu and that Mark is rich. The point is it's ridiculous to assume that a company that is financially responsible isn't going to take measure to protect it's investment. There are more people here than Mark that have a financial stake in Ubuntu. So what I'm saying is that before you invent a bunch of "what ifs" (like what if Mark decides to....) have the sense to back up what you're saying with facts, not conjecture.

I know you're not trying to cut down Ubuntu, but you are posturing yourself as a corporate and OEM expert which you're not. You don't have the legal, practica, or financiall experience make those statements seriously, especially without solid facts and valid arguments. You have no real place speaking for OEM's or large corporations.

Canonical Ltd. is a private company founded (and funded) by South African entrepreneur Mark Shuttleworth for the promotion of free software projects. Canonical is registered in the tax haven Isle of Man and employs staff around the world, along with their main offices in London and support office in Montreal.

Tell me, what does "private company" mean to you?

I actually speak for several local OEMs that have been looking at pre-installing Linux (not large ones, but it gives me an idea of the kind of risks that they worry about). I've been talking to them attempting to show them that they can reduce prices and increase business by pre-installing and supporting Linux. Their next question to me was "Well, which one(s)?" Which made me think a bit, and my first thought was to suggest Ubuntu. One such OEM came to me with reasons he was worried about supporting Ubuntu, most of which I have relayed, some of which weren't of any consequence (aesthetics).

I'm paraphrasing some things I heard from this OEM, but they were good questions:

"This hasn't been around long, what if it goes under? I don't want to have to pick up another version and then have to support both of them- that would be a headache"

"I saw here where things broke from updates, what if that happens again? I can only imagine all the calls I'll get!"

You see where this is going. The other questions involved software installation, etc.

Now, I just want to ask you since you obviously have more experience in this than I: Who has control of a privately owned company? Who has the last word on everything that company does and is not responsible to shareholders, etc.? We know it's privately owned, so no shareholders to deal with, no one demanding profits, financial statements, or anything.

I am no expert, you're exactly right, but I also have more experience than you would think I would. I understand that the likelihood of Shuttleworth suddenly cutting funding to Canonical when he's just been given a major OEM deal is very very unlikely, but it's something to be considered.

Mark Shuttleworth cannot just pull funding at any time:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubuntu_Foundation

I didn't see anything in that says he couldn't pull that money either.

[Tomosaur]

OEMs can provide recovery options, just like they do now with Windows. Computers break from time to time, I can't imagine it would be too difficult for the OEM to provide a 'recovery kernel', or even a recovery partition, where the original, pre-configured kernel is kept backed up. We all know that restoring linux to a usable state is as simple as selecting an older kernel version in the bootloader. I'm sure most OEMs would be able to provide this.

[Adamant1988]

OEMs can provide recovery options, just like they do now with Windows. Computers break from time to time, I can't imagine it would be too difficult for the OEM to provide a 'recovery kernel', or even a recovery partition, where the original, pre-configured kernel is kept backed up. We all know that restoring linux to a usable state is as simple as selecting an older kernel version in the bootloader. I'm sure most OEMs would be able to provide this.

This is a solid point. Perhaps OEM's could implement something to rollback changes from patches gone bad.

[kuja]

They've broken X with updates HOW many times now? That speaks volumes right there. This "Fork" is incompatible with debian packages at this point, and is for all intents and purposes it's own distribution. Want to test my theory? Try using debian repos and watch the breakage you get.
Yes, there are changes there, but look at it this way also - The first thing done after work begins on the next release cycle is to sync with Debian. Additionally, Ubuntu fixes are sent upstream to Debian. They benefit each other, though they're incompatible at times (and that's usually due to packages depending on different versions of things that may not be available)

[DoctorMO]

The first thing is that The ubuntu foundation is not Mark Shuttleworth, even if he asked for his money back they would tell him to sod off, if he took the money back he'd be indited for fraud. so no I don't see your point at all.

The other point of course is that Ubuntu is a mostly community run distro anyway, the backing we get from conical is good but it isn't even in the same scale as the amount of development that goes on at other technical software houses. we'd loose some support but not the community.

The point to consider about your OEMs is that they are free to run their own repos and simply keeping them 3 or 4 months behind the current ubuntu repos will be enough to rule out problems. it also means that people who enable other repos don't really need support any more.

I would hope that any OEM also support the GNU/Linux systems and tools by funding at least one developer or artist or manager in that way everyone benefits and the community aren't likely to push away helping users from company X because company X is just interested in taking and not giving back.

[Polygon]

ubuntu has released one bad x update which made some (not all!) users not have x start

and a second one had some problems with (what do you know...) closed source nvidia video card drivers. Sure they should of tested em first, but the real problem was that nvidia drivers are closed source and unpredictable

and considering its been about 2-3 years, and only one update that went bad (dont count the linux kernel thing, as that just prevented people from installing it, it didnt actually cause any computer problems) then thats a pretty good track record

and the idea of different oems using their own repos, and keeping them like a month behind the offical ones is a great idea. that way if something does break, (which it should not) then the majority of users do not get effected.

[Adamant1988]

ubuntu has released one bad x update which made some (not all!) users not have x start

and a second one had some problems with (what do you know...) closed source nvidia video card drivers. Sure they should of tested em first, but the real problem was that nvidia drivers are closed source and unpredictable

and considering its been about 2-3 years, and only one update that went bad (dont count the linux kernel thing, as that just prevented people from installing it, it didnt actually cause any computer problems) then thats a pretty good track record

and the idea of different oems using their own repos, and keeping them like a month behind the offical ones is a great idea. that way if something does break, (which it should not) then the majority of users do not get effected.

Loving the delayed repo idea. I'll have to see if the guys locally can do that.

[aysiu]

Just saw Dell's response (http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/ideastorm/ideasinaction?c=us&l=en&s=gen) on Digg (http://digg.com/linux_unix/Dell_s_Response_to_overwhelming_Linux_community_co up). What annoys me is exactly what I predicted/feared--a lot of people are being flip-floppers now. Oh, Dell may preinstall Linux? That'll hurt their bottom line. I won't buy from them, then. I'll buy from HP. If people are going to flood IdeaStorm saying Dell should make preinstalled Linux, they should buy preinstalled Linux from Dell... or shut up.

[Adamant1988]

Just saw Dell's response (http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/ideastorm/ideasinaction?c=us&l=en&s=gen) on Digg (http://digg.com/linux_unix/Dell_s_Response_to_overwhelming_Linux_community_co up). What annoys me is exactly what I predicted/feared--a lot of people are being flip-floppers now. Oh, Dell may preinstall Linux? That'll hurt their bottom line. I won't buy from them, then. I'll buy from HP. If people are going to flood IdeaStorm saying Dell should make preinstalled Linux, they should buy preinstalled Linux from Dell... or shut up.

When they actually come through with a consumer version, I'll be a buyer for sure. I'll be in the market for a new PC in the next couple years.

[Voxxi]

I wouldn't really like anything pre-installed on my system, just a blank hard-drive and hardware that is well-supported by both Windows & Linux (NVidia, Intel, etc). I usually buy from these guys (http://pbtech.co.nz) for the simple fact that everything works, nothing is pre-installed and it's cheap. If Dell offered something like those systems, except with the option to add on Linux compatible Bluetooth, WiFi etc for around the same price, I would buy from them.

I'm not saying that I don't think that pre-installed Linux isn't great, it's a real good thing to see large companies like Dell looking offer Linux as a viable consumer option, but I just prefer a system with nothing on it when I get it. :)

[ANTDx1]

Just saw Dell's response (http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/ideastorm/ideasinaction?c=us&l=en&s=gen) on Digg (http://digg.com/linux_unix/Dell_s_Response_to_overwhelming_Linux_community_co up). What annoys me is exactly what I predicted/feared--a lot of people are being flip-floppers now. Oh, Dell may preinstall Linux? That'll hurt their bottom line. I won't buy from them, then. I'll buy from HP. If people are going to flood IdeaStorm saying Dell should make preinstalled Linux, they should buy preinstalled Linux from Dell... or shut up.

I agree. I'm not going to go buy their new Dimension Desktop, which when I compared with the Windows version of that model, was actually cheaper, simply because they start selling them. However, when I go into the market for a new computer in 1.5-2 years, I will be looking strongly at whoever has proven support for Linux. Right now, Dell would win that.

[aysiu]

Eric Raymond has an interesting take on this. He speculates that Michael Dell suspected the Idea Storm would bring up Linux preloaded and wanted to move in that direction anyway.

He also claims that part of this is for keeping the cheaper products functioning well: Running Linux on Dell laptops could have another lure, Raymond wrote. "I think one significant problem Dell and Microsoft are facing is just that Vista is too resource-hungry and bloated to run well on sub-$500 machines, which are the highest-volume market segment now. Dell may be arranging itself some maneuvering room to preinstall an [operating system] that won't make its low-end hardware look like crap." Actually makes a lot of sense, I think.

In order for Linux to become successful on the desktop, it can't compete directly with Windows. I see it winning in schools and in governments. I also see it being sold on cheaper hardware with lower specs--perfect for desktop Linux's ideal audience: people like me who email, use a web browser, listen to music, and do some light word processing. Nothing complicated. Just a no-frills, cheap, easy-to-use computer.

Here's the article:
Hey dude, you're getting Linux on that Dell (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=windows_and_linux_pcs&articleId=9011728&taxonomyId=64&intsrc=kc_top)

[Adamant1988]

Eric Raymond has an interesting take on this. He speculates that Michael Dell suspected the Idea Storm would bring up Linux preloaded and wanted to move in that direction anyway.

He also claims that part of this is for keeping the cheaper products functioning well: Actually makes a lot of sense, I think.

In order for Linux to become successful on the desktop, it can't compete directly with Windows. I see it winning in schools and in governments. I also see it being sold on cheaper hardware with lower specs--perfect for desktop Linux's ideal audience: people like me who email, use a web browser, listen to music, and do some light word processing. Nothing complicated. Just a no-frills, cheap, easy-to-use computer.

Here's the article:
Hey dude, you're getting Linux on that Dell (http://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&taxonomyName=windows_and_linux_pcs&articleId=9011728&taxonomyId=64&intsrc=kc_top)


Sometimes Raymond makes a lot of sense, other times I think he's crazy. This is one of those times where he makes sense. Exactly spot on, Linux is going to be the free as in cost option, the kind of thing parents get for their kids first computer etc. The social impact of that will be interesting as those kids would be growing up on Linux. Whatever system I get will have to be competent for programming and whatever college has me doing. Linux will make an attractive option though, as a college student saving a few bucks on my next computer would be a great help to me.

[bastiegast]

ubuntu has released one bad x update which made some (not all!) users not have x start

and a second one had some problems with (what do you know...) closed source nvidia video card drivers. Sure they should of tested em first, but the real problem was that nvidia drivers are closed source and unpredictable

and considering its been about 2-3 years, and only one update that went bad (dont count the linux kernel thing, as that just prevented people from installing it, it didnt actually cause any computer problems) then thats a pretty good track record

and the idea of different oems using their own repos, and keeping them like a month behind the offical ones is a great idea. that way if something does break, (which it should not) then the majority of users do not get effected.

Might be just me but i've had X breakage by update multiple times. Recently the nvidia drivers broke because of some libc6 update, it was on the front page of the forum.

[Chemist]

Dell finally listening to the customer and do something for them. don't think Microsoft will be very happy with this. Another nail in the coffin

[Adamant1988]

Dell finally listening to the customer and do something for them. don't think Microsoft will be very happy with this. Another nail in the coffin

For who? Microsoft? They're not going away anytime soon, better believe that.

[jjbigboy]

http://www.dellideastorm.com/article/show/63705/Dell_should_stop_lying_about_preinstalled_Linux

Lots of users requested (http://www.dellideastorm.com/) pre-installed Ubuntu, Fedora and OpenSuSE on dellideastorm.com recently, and Dell replied by saying they were going to switch their enterprise PCs and laptops from RHEL to SLED.

They are trying to trick customers into submission. Please vote up my thread and let them know that you want Ubuntu and other free distros on the Inspirons and desktops that are windows only.

Thanks!

PS- Dell forced me to buy an XP OEM license, and I will never buy from them again.

[AlexC_]

So, Linux users want Dell to pre-install Linux ... then when they say they will, you get angry because it's not Ubuntu? What's the deal? Just uninstall the distro it comes with and install you're distro of choice afterwards. Simple as that.

PS- Dell forced me to buy an XP OEM license, and I will never buy from them again.
Did Dell hold a gun to you're head and tell you to buy the computer or else? No. You also could have returned the XP License and got a full refund for it.

Also, if you are never going to buy from Dell again then why did you make an Idea Storm post saying to install Ubuntu as default, as it will never effect you because you wont buy from them again ...

[jjbigboy]

That's not the point. They say they will certify SLED on computers that cost WAY too much for the average joe. They had already been preinstalling RHEL on these same machines since 2000 and never stopped doing so, and now all they did was switch it to SLED.

The people that voted up the original topic wanted consumer level Ubuntu, Fedora, or OpenSUSE on affordable laptops like Inspiron.

Dell knows this and released this RHEL to SLED switch announcement to quiet people down, who misunderstood what they meant.

http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f9400/9495.htm (http://www.usdoj.gov/atr/cases/f9400/9495.htm)

Dell can not legally say that they will only load Windows OEM on affordable laptops, because of the MS settlement which forbids it. So there is no written public statements or papers on the matter, but it still exists between Dell & MS, and Gateway & MS, ect... They will never load Ubuntu, Fedora ect on affordable inspirons or gear because of this. That's why you should vote up my post.

[weatherman]

http://www.dellideastorm.com/article/show/63705/Dell_should_stop_lying_about_preinstalled_Linux

Lots of users requested (http://www.dellideastorm.com/) pre-installed Ubuntu, Fedora and OpenSuSE on dellideastorm.com recently, and Dell replied by saying they were going to switch their enterprise PCs and laptops from RHEL to SLED.

They are trying to trick customers into submission. Please vote up my thread and let them know that you want Ubuntu and other free distros on the Inspirons and desktops that are windows only.

Thanks!

PS- Dell forced me to buy an XP OEM license, and I will never buy from them again.
did you actually read the full article?

We don't want to pick one distribution and alienate users with a preference for another. We want users to have the opportunity to help define the market for Linux on desktop and notebook systems. In addition to working with Novell, we are also working with other distributors and evaluating the possibility of additional certifications across our product line. We are continuing to investigate your other Linux-related ideas, so please continue to check here for updates.

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/ideastorm/ideasinaction?c=us&l=en&s=gen

[jjbigboy]

Yes, I read that. The bottom line is that they will not offer Linux on desktops and laptops that most people buy. The only computers they are going to certify with SLED are the ones that were previously certified for RHEL for the past 7 years.

What they wrote amounts to nothing but the press is eating it up.

It would be more than easy for them to provide installs for Ubuntu, Fedora or openSuSE and to test those configs with the hardware. They are trying to blow this off.

They have an unwritten agreement with MS Corp on the affordable gear. They will not offer the no-OS option either on that gear.

[weatherman]

from the statement:

we are working with Novell to certify our corporate client products for Linux, including our OptiPlex desktops, Latitude notebooks and Dell Precision workstations.

out of these only the Dell Precision Desktops come with RH, the other ones with FreeDos. "including" means others may follow, it's a start.
I don't think a company like Dell will ever suddenly start supporting 3 different distributions, it's just not doable (and by the way, I don't even think that they'll offer the support themselves but leave it to novell/red hat/...).

[macogw]

So, Linux users want Dell to pre-install Linux ... then when they say they will, you get angry because it's not Ubuntu? What's the deal? Just uninstall the distro it comes with and install you're distro of choice afterwards. Simple as that.


Did Dell hold a gun to you're head and tell you to buy the computer or else? No. You also could have returned the XP License and got a full refund for it.

Also, if you are never going to buy from Dell again then why did you make an Idea Storm post saying to install Ubuntu as default, as it will never effect you because you wont buy from them again ...

No, it's not a distro thing. The "enterprise" computers they mean are servers. Are you going to by a server and carry it in a bag to a meeting? I don't think so.

[IYY]

Thank you for voting. Here's the result:

http://www.dell.com/content/topics/global.aspx/ideastorm/ideasinaction?c=us&l=en&s=gen

[Bartender]

Dell's patting themselves on the back for being repsonsive to their customers and beginning to offer no-OS laptops but they're STILL more expensive than the Windows versions.
What's the point?

[m.musashi]

They also seem to be suggesting that they will offer Linux only on business oriented hardware which is something they have been doing anyway - although this might be an expansion of their offerings. This will be a really big deal only when average consumers have the choice of MS or Linux or nothing as part of the regular configuration options for any computer they sell. Perhaps that will be the end result but their early responses do not support that conclusion.

Still, at least they are talking about it and that is a step in the right direction.

[aysiu]

Dell's patting themselves on the back for being repsonsive to their customers and beginning to offer no-OS laptops but they're STILL more expensive than the Windows versions.
What's the point?
Well a number of people on Digg have suggested it has to do with all the crapware that gets installed along with Windows (AOL, Norton Anti-Virus or McAfee Anti-Virus, and other promotional software trials)--the kickbacks Dell gets from those promotions helps to keep the laptop cheaper, just as Google ads keep their search engine "free."

If you load a laptop with FreeDOS, you don't get kickbacks from all those companies.

[Adamant1988]

Well a number of people on Digg have suggested it has to do with all the crapware that gets installed along with Windows (AOL, Norton Anti-Virus or McAfee Anti-Virus, and other promotional software trials)--the kickbacks Dell gets from those promotions helps to keep the laptop cheaper, just as Google ads keep their search engine "free."

If you load a laptop with FreeDOS, you don't get kickbacks from all those companies.

I'm betting on Crapware for linux showing up, either way, I'd be willing to pay more for it pre-installed. That gives me peace of mine, and saves me time.

[aysiu]

I'm betting on Crapware for linux showing up, either way, I'd be willing to pay more for it pre-installed. That gives me peace of mine, and saves me time.
I may have mentioned this earlier in the thread, but Mepis has some Earthlink crapware already (an icon on the desktop--not sure if it's just a link to the Earthlink website).

Also, to clarify, the "pay more" is a price difference of less than $100 for a laptop. And if you don't mind the specs below, they have an N-Series laptop for as low as US$669 (http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=blcwdn1&s=bsd): Components
Intel® Core™ 2 Duo T5500 (1.66GHz) 2M L2 Cache, 667Mhz Dual Core
FreeDOS Operating System Kit
14.1 inch XGA LCD Panel
512MB, DDR2-533 SDRAM, 1 DIMM
40GB Hard Drive, 9.5MM, 5400RPM
24X CD-ROM Drive
Dell Wireless™ 1390 802.11g Mini Card
Accessories
4 Cell Primary Battery
65W A/C Adapter
No Floppy Drive
Software
Service
1 Year Mail-In Economy Plan
Purchase is not intended for resale.
Also Includes
Resource CD - Contains Diagnostics and Drivers for N-Series
Latitude D520N
Internal English Keyboard

[Adamant1988]

I may have mentioned this earlier in the thread, but Mepis has some Earthlink crapware already (an icon on the desktop--not sure if it's just a link to the Earthlink website).

Also, to clarify, the "pay more" is a price difference of less than $100 for a laptop. And if you don't mind the specs below, they have an N-Series laptop for as low as US$669 (http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=blcwdn1&s=bsd):

I've taken a step back and revisited the thought. I think the increased price point may end up being just as much of a positive as it is a negative. People associate higher price with higher quality (think Apple here), but the price difference is negligible (sub-$100) and considering most computers (opinionated statement here) are not bought with cash but credit, that's only going to make the difference of a few dollars a month.

The price means people WILL see a difference, between the system's and even the most ignorant among consumers is going to wonder what the difference is. They may VERY well associate it with higher quality offerings. We'll have to see.


EDIT: I would just like to note that when the Novell linux distributions (hopefully openSuSE) are pre-installed on these machines I will buy one regardless of the $100 price difference. If for nothing else than to encourage this behavior from Dell in the future.

[PrinceArithon]

I'm betting on Crapware for linux showing up, either way, I'd be willing to pay more for it pre-installed. That gives me peace of mine, and saves me time.


I myself would rather pay for no OS and then install Ubuntu for a cheaper price...

Not to get off subject but this is like Organic food. You have to pay more for food that has no insecticides on it compared to the food that has it....it makes no sense.

[aysiu]

Not to get off subject but this is like Organic food. You have to pay more for food that has no insecticides on it compared to the food that has it....it makes no sense. Actually, it makes perfect sense.

[m.musashi]

EDIT: I would just like to note that when the Novell linux distributions (hopefully openSuSE) are pre-installed on these machines I will buy one regardless of the $100 price difference. If for nothing else than to encourage this behavior from Dell in the future.

Conversely, I refuse to purchase any computer with suse - although I would consider one with no os if that was the alternative. Which only goes to show that no matter what Dell does it's going to be messy. My guess is they will choose one or two "name-brand" distros but also continue to give the free dos option.

[aysiu]

Well, the model I linked to is actually the same price as the similar Windows model. (http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=blcwd1s&s=bsd)

... but the Windows model gets: Free upgrade to 60GB 5400RPM
FREE! 8X DVD with Cyberlink Power DVD

[m.musashi]

How come the free dos OS option has a windows icon next to it?

[FyreBrand]

Well, the model I linked to is actually the same price as the similar Windows model. (http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=04&kc=6W300&l=en&oc=blcwd1s&s=bsd)

... but the Windows model gets:I noticed that the other day when I was doing different price comparisons. Basically it seeems that the upgrades for the Windows machines are a bit better and the options for Linux machines to add lower end hardware are better. There were a few more options for 5400 rpm drives and lower end RAM for the Linux configs (in general) than the Windows coutnerparts for nearly the same price.

On a few configurations where both machines had mid-level choices (like the Core2 duo with 4MB cache, 1GB RAM, and a 7200 RPM hd) the Windows config actually came out cheaper by $90 - $125 depending on the exact details.

Still I think I would have to choose the Linux option anyways. I'm fairly convinced that now is a time when our purchasing choices can make a difference. I really think our wallets can talk here in a way that hasn't been possible before.

[aysiu]

Still I think I would have to choose the Linux option anyways. I'm fairly convinced that now is a time when our purchasing choices can make a difference. I really think our wallets can talk here in a way that hasn't been possible before. I agree.

A lot of times, I hear Linux users criticizing Adobe, Microsoft, or Dell or some other corporation for being motivated primarily by money. Well, if people say, "Hey, I'll pay $48 less (or whatever relatively small amount) to get Windows and then install Linux myself" they're really sending the message to Dell "Hey, keep selling all your computers with Windows preinstalled because all we care about as consumers is getting the absolute lowest price, even if we don't get a choice of OS or freedom from promotional crapware."

Money talks. If people want companies to sell preinstalled Linux, people need to be willing to buy preinstalled Linux.

[kevinlyfellow]

For the price that Dell wants for their business pcs with free-dos, I don't see why people don't buy from companies like system76. I think what people really want from Dell is to start pushing linux on the desktop, not necessarily just to sell it. The hope for linux users is that if Dell sells linux, then hardware companies need to start creating drivers. This probably won't happen, since Dell is more than likely going to take a passive role. I guarantee that we won't be seeing dell ads for linux anytime soon. A passive role is not what we need and it will not be successful for them. We need a company to invest in marketing and say "Hey everybody, buy a linux computer. Its better!" So far, hp at least has 'offered' linux (a modified ubuntu cd for some of their laptops) but never made it easy to buy one or even let an average person know that they can. I for one want Dell to be bold, and not just offer linux on the desktop, I want them to market linux on the desktop.

[tuxcantfly]

Forget about the N-Series and FreeDOS. All people will do is buy them and pirate windows. If we really want to spread Linux, we need to promote preinstallation, for 1 distro (ubuntu preferably, but maybe opensuse, because Dell says they're having a nice deal with novell) Is Canonical reaching out to Dell yet? This is their once-in-a-lifetime opportunity; they'd better not blow it...

[Adamant1988]

Forget about the N-Series and FreeDOS. All people will do is buy them and pirate windows. If we really want to spread Linux, we need to promote preinstallation, for 1 distro (ubuntu preferably, but maybe opensuse, because Dell says they're having a nice deal with novell) Is Canonical reaching out to Dell yet? This is their once-in-a-lifetime opportunity; they'd better not blow it...

Novell probably has dibs on this deal, since Dell mentioned them by name. I'm sure othe support would be added based on demand for it...

[banditti]

Eventually....


http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/9951/53/

[viper]

Imagine whats gona happen in 12 months from now, sounds kinda promising :)

[dcrowder32]

Yes! Even if it is a different distro for now, it is a good start. Good for Linux in general.

[tigerpants]

Microsoft's bullyboy tactics have been the only thing that have stopped this happening sooner. Well done Dell, at the end of the day its a sound business decision. Why the hell anyone would use Windows on a network is beyond me. Awful, useless tripe.

[an.echte.trilingue]

It only says that if SuSE is successful, they will consider shipping Ubuntu in the future. It does not really matter, though. As long as their popular home computers are "linux certified", then all of the hardware should work out of the box for people who choose to buy with windows and install linux later.

What I do wonder, though, is if Dell will start packaging "value added" ad-ware on Linux boxes like they do with windows right now?

Take care
-mat

[Spr0k3t]

Wohoo! Now if a decent company would only offer Linux distros.

[an.echte.trilingue]

Why the hell anyone would use Windows on a network is beyond me. Awful, useless tripe.

Businesses use it because, to this day, there is no viable open source or even commercial alternative to MSExchange and MSOffice. (OpenOffice doesn't even come close, sorry).

[EdThaSlayer]

The end for M$ is near. When a ~*"superpower"*~ falls another one comes to take its place...Linux.

[prizrak]

It doesn't really matter what Dell preinstalls if they release their drivers we will be able to get fully functional Ubuntu on them as well as just about anything else.

[Adamant1988]

The end for M$ is near. When a ~*"superpower"*~ falls another one comes to take its place...Linux.

Oh please.

Microsoft is not going anywhere any time soon, at the very most this move by dell could mark the BEGINNING of something that will take years to reach any kind of meaningful damage to Microsoft. Also, Microsoft is not one product, even when the operating system gold mine goes dry they will adapt and thrive.


Banditti,

This was done in very bad taste. Nowhere in an official statement is Canonical .Ltd or Ubuntu mentioned by name. This article suggests Ubuntu, and while it seems logical that Dell would select Ubuntu as runner up (although risky in my opinion) saying *for sure* that Ubuntu will be pre-installed sets a lot of people up to potentially be dissapointed.

[mcduck]

Businesses use it because, to this day, there is no viable open source or even commercial alternative to MSExchange and MSOffice. (OpenOffice doesn't even come close, sorry).
Finnish Ministry of Justice did recently a large test of OpenOffice with the result that it completely fills are their needs in every possible use.. ;)

[OffHand]

Banditti,

This was done in very bad taste. Nowhere in an official statement is Canonical .Ltd or Ubuntu mentioned by name. This article suggests Ubuntu, and while it seems logical that Dell would select Ubuntu as runner up (although risky in my opinion) saying *for sure* that Ubuntu will be pre-installed sets a lot of people up to potentially be dissapointed.

Lighten up...

[tigerpants]

Businesses use it because, to this day, there is no viable open source or even commercial alternative to MSExchange and MSOffice. (OpenOffice doesn't even come close, sorry).

Disagree with you completely. People are used to Office, not the alternatives. Familiarity breeds contempt for "an alternative" of any kind. Just how much of MS Office do most people use? Be honest. Where I work, most people don't get past about 3 functions on a day to day basis. Access is next to useless, Frontpage is pure toss, Publisher is not the best DTP in the world, Word is buggy, glitchy and has a mind of its own at times (try editting a large document in it, formatting goes right out the window). Excel - half decent at best. Fact is, I've been on the recieving end of MS Office, and it hurt me commercially - exploits in MS office left me with a 10,000 records on an Access DB wiped, and most of our Exchange server backup hacked to crap. That was the final straw for me.

OOffice doesn't come close? To what exactly? It can do most of what MS Office can (although its DB is crap), and its more than enough for most people. If you are a serious DB user, you'll be using Filemaker or mysql, if you are a serious web designer, you WON'T be using frontpage, if you are a serious network administrator, you'll be running LAMP, if you're a serious DTP, you'll be using quark or adobe.

People use and accept what they percieve as being normal. MS Office is the norm for most people, but its very much something that has been forced on people. There are plenty of viable alternatives - I know, I work with them everyday,and I'm an advanced user, so opensource is more than enough for the average user.

[pylorns]

This is a good thing, but I am willing to bet Dell is going to stick with the Enterprise Distros because of the support. Enterprise Red Hat, Enterprise Suse.

[Adamant1988]

Lighten up...

Tell the hand full of zealots that are going to blow up if Linspire gets the bid and not Ubuntu that.

Let's not forget, Linspire has the Ubuntu base and is easier to use.

[tigerpants]

Tell the hand full of zealots that are going to blow up if Linspire gets the bid and not Ubuntu that.

Let's not forget, Linspire has the Ubuntu base and is easier to use.

No one cares. Its linux. Hurrah for that. Doesnt matter who makes it.

[prizrak]

This is a good thing, but I am willing to bet Dell is going to stick with the Enterprise Distros because of the support. Enterprise Red Hat, Enterprise Suse.

Ubuntu has pay for support as well so that's hardly an issue. I don't see Dell selling Ubuntu to organizational clients though as they will most likely want a distro they are familiar with and that's normally SuSE or RedHat running on their servers.

Ubuntu might be able to get into the home user segment of Dell products especially sincey CnR is going to be (is?) in it.

[prizrak]

Tell the hand full of zealots that are going to blow up if Linspire gets the bid and not Ubuntu that.

Let's not forget, Linspire has the Ubuntu base and is easier to use.

I do believe that Dell is more likely to go with Ubuntu because of popularity. Easier to sell a product that is known and Ubuntu is alot better known than Linspire.

[maxamillion]

Rumors were floating around that Dell was trying to get OS X on their machines as an alternative because Microsoft apparently is charging Dell almost twice for Vista as it did for XP and Micheal Dell is a little agitated about it but I assume he had little success convincing Steve Jobs that allowing OS X to run on non-Apple hardware was a good idea so it seems he will be going the way of the dark side ..... more power to him, I think this will be a good way to bring Linux and Ubuntu more main stream.

[Sefrin]

I think this is a step in the right direction. Dell is a popular hardware vendor that makes getting their systems easy for the average joe. Good for them for giving everyone a choice if this happens.

[christhemonkey]

Good on them :D

[izanbardprince]

The main thing holding Linux back is that the 64-bit support just isn't really there yet from vendors of proprietary software.

I'm using the 32-bit version of Ubuntu because I don't want to mess around with hacks and all kinds of hell just to get my web browser plug-in's to work properly.

I mean I could muck around with it if I wanted, but how are you going to tell an end user "OK, now go to a forum website, and there will be this script that installs a 32-bit Firefox, and now you have even more software we can't support".

What would be nice is if Dell could pressure those (expletive deleted:P) over at Adobe to recompile Flash for 64-bit Linux, it couldn't possibly take that much effort.

Also, Cedega is awful hit-or miss on a 64-bit platform, some games run just fine, while others just don't work at all.

I think if Dell does ship Linux, they're going to keep it 32-bit to keep it simple and get support costs down, like it or not, while nobody sells a 32-bit processor anymore, X86 operating systems will be around for years on the PC, and in the meantime Mac OS X is transitioning (painlessly) all in the course of this year.

Edit: Oh, and while most of Suse itself is pretty friendly, RPM is the work of the devil.

[prizrak]

The main thing holding Linux back is that the 64-bit support just isn't really there yet from vendors of proprietary software.

I'm using the 32-bit version of Ubuntu because I don't want to mess around with hacks and all kinds of hell just to get my web browser plug-in's to work properly.

I mean I could muck around with it if I wanted, but how are you going to tell an end user "OK, now go to a forum website, and there will be this script that installs a 32-bit Firefox, and now you have even more software we can't support".

What would be nice is if Dell could pressure those (expletive deleted:P) over at Adobe to recompile Flash for 64-bit Linux, it couldn't possibly take that much effort.

Also, Cedega is awful hit-or miss on a 64-bit platform, some games run just fine, while others just don't work at all.

I think if Dell does ship Linux, they're going to keep it 32-bit to keep it simple and get support costs down, like it or not, while nobody sells a 32-bit processor anymore, X86 operating systems will be around for years on the PC, and in the meantime Mac OS X is transitioning (painlessly) all in the course of this year.

Edit: Oh, and while most of Suse itself is pretty friendly, RPM is the work of the devil.
Then the same exact thing is holding Windows back. If you head over to www.winsupersite.com and read Thurrot's report on Vista you will see that Vista 64 is pretty much pointless. Linux has a leg up in the 64 bit market as it has been 64 bit for years now and alot of stuff just needs to be recompiled to support 64bit. If Dell's idea takes off and they sell a good amount of Linux desktops/laptops the ISV's will follow.

[izanbardprince]

Agreed, Microsoft has screwed their 64-bit support up the worst, by far, it will be at LEAST Windows Vienna before 64-bit Windows gets off the ground.

My point was that Dell isn't going to want to ship 64-bit Linux until ISV's support it better, either that, or most of the programs it ships with will be 32-bit for compatibility, like with Suse.

Either way, it's not a good thing.

[justin whitaker]

I would definitely pick up an Inspiron with Linux certified hardware. I am not even picky which distro they ship it with. SUSE is fine. I can always wipe it later. If I go through some Novell is the Devil phase. :)

[darkhatter]

I've been on digg way to much.....don't use b.s. titles to try and attract people

[Sunflower1970]

Good news. Hopefully some time in the future this will level the playing field for the OS's. Kill the monopoly MS is trying to force on people. And hopefully, it'll show hardware companies they need to start creating drivers for Linux (which is really what I'm excited for :) )

[Eddie Wilson]

I've been on digg way to much.....don't use b.s. titles to try and attract people

What the hell is wrong with you? You need to lighten up a bit!:confused:

[SEWi]

Evin if dell ship with ubuntu it probobly will share vid mem :( still

[FyreBrand]

Tell the hand full of zealots that are going to blow up if Linspire gets the bid and not Ubuntu that.

Let's not forget, Linspire has the Ubuntu base and is easier to use.Linspire has a horrible reputation. If I would have presented Linspire instead of Kubuntu I would have been laughed out of the server room. Dell is going to do business with people they already a have a relationship with. That is Novell and RedHat.

We buy Dells and also a local OEM's system. Linspire is not even considered for that mix in an office and public use environment. That's relevant since that will be the initial market for these systems. When they decide to move more into the home market I have no doubt they will consider Ubuntu along with Mandriva and SUSE because people know Ubuntu.

Ubuntu has pay for support as well so that's hardly an issue. I don't see Dell selling Ubuntu to organizational clients though as they will most likely want a distro they are familiar with and that's normally SuSE or RedHat running on their servers.

Ubuntu might be able to get into the home user segment of Dell products especially sincey CnR is going to be (is?) in it.Agreed. Our central IT uses RHEL and SUSE (along with Novell Groupwise and Zenworks). SUSE on the desktop is something they are familiar with. We already have support contracts for Groupwise and Zenworks so this wouldn't be a major political hurdle to cross.

I do believe that Dell is more likely to go with Ubuntu because of popularity. Easier to sell a product that is known and Ubuntu is alot better known than Linspire.I think SUSE and RHEL will be their default for business until they feel this is viable. I definitely see them going with Ubuntu for the household version. It would be really great if Canonical could get service contracts from this. This could be an opportunity for Canonical to actually make some money here.

Agreed, Microsoft has screwed their 64-bit support up the worst, by far, it will be at LEAST Windows Vienna before 64-bit Windows gets off the ground.

My point was that Dell isn't going to want to ship 64-bit Linux until ISV's support it better, either that, or most of the programs it ships with will be 32-bit for compatibility, like with Suse.

Either way, it's not a good thing.I've been testing Sabayon 64-bit. It's incredibly fast and I have all the same applications as on 32-bit. The thing is everything is compiled and set to run on it. It doesn't even matter that everything running on it is 64 bit because overall the performance is better. What matters is that 32 bit apps run properly and they can if the system is setup that way. A weakness of .deb and .rpm is that everything is precompiled for the broadest range of systems and environments. While running Sabayon in 64 bit is faster I don't find it strikingly so such that Kubuntu 32 bit isn't worth it. In fact I still prefer Kubuntu for stability and ease of .deb package management. Overall I think stability and ease are more important to a broad market here than shaving a few seconds off of boot and application startup.

[Adamant1988]

Linspire has a horrible reputation. If I would have presented Linspire instead of Kubuntu I would have been laughed out of the server room. Dell is going to do business with people they already a have a relationship with. That is Novell and RedHat.

We buy Dells and also a local OEM's system. Linspire is not even considered for that mix in an office and public use environment. That's relevant since that will be the initial market for these systems. When they decide to move more into the home market I have no doubt they will consider Ubuntu along with Mandriva and SUSE because people know Ubuntu.

It was an example. I know what Linspire's reputation is like, It was just the first distro that came to mind that Dell doesn't already work with.

[stokedfish]

Naw, Dell will not ship Ubuntu. Read the article again. Jeez...

[DoctorMO]

Businesses use it because, to this day, there is no viable open source or even commercial alternative to MSExchange and MSOffice. (OpenOffice doesn't even come close, sorry).

Hahaha, you don't understand freedom, sorry

[stokedfish]

Well, freedom or not, he's right.

OpenOffice can't compare with Office 2007. Try both and you will see...

[Adamant1988]

Hahaha, you don't understand freedom, sorry

I'm sure the thought of Freedom keeps you warm and comfortable at night, but we're talking about business clients here. The kind where they can't really have an "almost" good-enough replacement. If they do that, the switch costs them money and makes them less efficient.

[justin whitaker]

Hahaha, you don't understand freedom, sorry

It's not about "Freedom", or even "freedom."

I think, overall, Linux is superior to Windows in every way. I could say that about many other Open Source projects as well...but while Open Office gets the job done...Office 2003 and Office 2007 are superior, from interface, to tools, to speed of use.

Open Office is superior on price though. :)

Let's not confuse the actual utility of an application with the philosophy behind it. Freedom is not a feature if the presentation I have to give is messed up.

[izanbardprince]

Tell the hand full of zealots that are going to blow up if Linspire gets the bid and not Ubuntu that.

Let's not forget, Linspire has the Ubuntu base and is easier to use.

I think it's unlikely to be Linspire.

The thing that turned me away from Linspire is that it doesn't really "feel" like Linux, they gutted it and push the user to buy not only the OS but a subscription to CNR.

I think Ubuntu has made Linux much easier to use while maintaining the Debian way of doing things.

Edit: Come to think of it, I remember when Linspire was called "Lindows", and they were bragging that they were going to be fully comatible with Windows games and programs, and just as easy to use.

Well, we see where that went.

[stokedfish]

But while Open Office gets the job done...Office 2003 and Office 2007 are superior, from interface, to tools, to speed of use.
Yep, true words.

[hardyn]

Rumors were floating around that Dell was trying to get OS X on their machines as an alternative because Microsoft apparently is charging Dell almost twice for Vista as it did for XP and Micheal Dell is a little agitated about it but I assume he had little success convincing Steve Jobs that allowing OS X to run on non-Apple hardware was a good idea so it seems he will be going the way of the dark side ..... more power to him, I think this will be a good way to bring Linux and Ubuntu more main stream.

I still don't think that is very much, i read a slashdot article a million years ago (no i will not be able to find it) that dell was paying MS 1.50$ for xp home and 2.50$ for xp pro.

i really doubt that apple will licence osX... it would end apple... if you can run osX on a 3000$ apple macbook pro, versus a similarly equipped dell 6400 for 1500$... im pretty sure i know which machine i would buy.

[rsambuca]

i really doubt that apple will licence osX... it would end apple... if you can run osX on a 3000$ apple macbook pro, versus a similarly equipped dell 6400 for 1500$... im pretty sure i know which machine i would buy.I agree that it will never happen. Part of the reason that OSX runs so well is that apple doesn't have any hardware driver issues to worry about.

[aysiu]

I've merged a couple of these Dell Idea Storm threads together.

[darkhatter]

What the hell is wrong with you? You need to lighten up a bit!:confused:

sorry people who mislabel news drive me crazy

[izanbardprince]

Windows is becoming too much of a nuisance to pirate, first it was just little add-ons that I didn't use anyway, like IE and Media Player, then they started slipping in poison pills in the form of critical updates.

So if one was to crack Vista, then the victory would be short lived, because the next time they install anything, it could shut them out of their system.

For me anyway, it just wasn't worth buying Vista when Ubuntu is free and lets me do all the things I would have used Vista for.

What we really need to see happen is for WINE to start supporting most Windows video games and exclusive software without major issues, then I think more people would go ahead and start using Linux, I also think that the 64-bit distros could be a little more 32-bit friendly, and come with things like ia32-libs and all that stuff.

[kevinlyfellow]

Well, freedom or not, he's right.

OpenOffice can't compare with Office 2007. Try both and you will see...

There are places where OOo is better than office (at least from my experience, I haven't tried 07). One place that I know its better is with the equation editor. Using mathml is much easier than the point and click interface office has.

[DoctorMO]

I'm sure the thought of Freedom keeps you warm and comfortable at night, but we're talking about business clients here. The kind where they can't really have an "almost" good-enough replacement. If they do that, the switch costs them money and makes them less efficient.

Well, freedom or not, he's right.

OpenOffice can't compare with Office 2007. Try both and you will see...

You see it's not always about functionality, sometimes it's about principles because you know damn well that going against those principles is bad for you and your business in the long run.

I can't 'try' Office 2007 because it wouldn't be moral to do so. freedom or death as they say. but this product isn't life or death so it's not even that important. so no I don't really want to know how good it is I want you to tell me how to make OO or GnuOffice better because they are the only choices I have and if you don't like them then there must be a reason for it other than a bias.

Besides I've never seen anyone do anything in an office suite more complex than letters, documentation and data sheets and they hardly warrant complex features.

[Oki]

For 90% of the people it is all "about functionality', they don’t care if it is closed or not. Last "Linux Mag" has an OpenOffice vs. MS Office" article, and MS Office is clearly a winner. OpenOffice is good enough for me though, has (almost) all I need, but others have different needs - and then OpenOffice is not an option.


When you say that the Dell machine has a lower cost then the Dell without any OS, are you comparing a machine with the same spec?


What I would like is System76 to start selling dekstop-hardware, not only the whole machine. I will never buy a complete desktop machine... And yeah, also start shipping to more countries(like mine).

[mcduck]

For 90% of the people it is all "about functionality', they don’t care if it is closed or not.It's also tested that 90% of office programs users use less than 10% of the program's features ;)

[DoctorMO]

For 90% of the people it is all "about functionality', they don’t care if it is closed or not. Last "Linux Mag" has an OpenOffice vs. MS Office" article, and MS Office is clearly a winner. OpenOffice is good enough for me though, has (almost) all I need, but others have different needs - and then OpenOffice is not an option.

Doesn't even make sense to me to compare them, OpenOffice is a office suite and MS Office is NULL.

[hardyn]

For 90% of the people it is all "about functionality', they don’t care if it is closed or not. Last "Linux Mag" has an OpenOffice vs. MS Office" article, and MS Office is clearly a winner. OpenOffice is good enough for me though, has (almost) all I need, but others have different needs - and then OpenOffice is not an option.


When you say that the Dell machine has a lower cost then the Dell without any OS, are you comparing a machine with the same spec?


What I would like is System76 to start selling dekstop-hardware, not only the whole machine. I will never buy a complete desktop machine... And yeah, also start shipping to more countries(like mine).




sys76 isn't using anything that isn't available on the retail market... are you terribly adverse to doing a custom build? or having a shop do a custom build? its all that sys76 would do.

so some homework, find out what works, and go with it.

[Oki]

” It's also tested that 90% of office programs users use less than 10% of the program's features”
Yeah, that’s a good point, and I belive it is true.

“Doesn't even make sense to me to compare them, OpenOffice is a office suite and MS Office is NULL.”
In other words, it dos not make sense for you each time a newcomer is asking “will MS Office run on Linux” and they get the answer “use OpenOffice”…. Off course you can compare them.

“sys76 isn't using anything that isn't available on the retail market..”
I know. But if I buy product from a shop like System76 I would support a shop that sells Linux products, something I want. When shops like that get more and more customers the hardware manufactures would like to be on the "Linux" list – witch in the long run would mean better driver support.

[ANTDx1]

My two cents on this whole deal:

First of all, obviously very good for Linux. Also, another +1 for Dell: The other day, I tested their new n-series Dimension desktop against the equivalent Windows model. Same hardware from the same companies: the nSeries was $60 cheaper.

Second, it's put out of proportion. I've read all sorts of news (just do a google news search for "Ubuntu") about this deal, and people are saying "Linux Preinstalled!" and all sorts of other things. In fact, that's the title of this thread. While that would be nice, it's not happening yet. Dell said they would certify computers as being Linux friendly, and ship no Operating System. While there may be deals in the works, Dell has not released any, as of the last time I looked at an official announcement.

Third, while myself and many others think Ubuntu is the best, I find it hard to believe that Dell could choose it at the moment, especially to rival Vista. In my mind, as well as my interpretation of Bug #1, rivaling and surpassing Microsoft, or any other leader's best efforts on an operating system, both technically and visually, is the main goal for Ubuntu. However, the Beryl project, which is very good and promising (I look for feisty+1 or 2 to boast out-of-the-box innovations which are market-leading in terms of visual appeal), is not ready to be preinstalled and advertised for its effects, because it is rather unreliable.

Fourth, this is a good idea for Dell, and it sort of reminds me of what I've heard of Google's emergence as a search engine: they start with the people who know. Many people on this forum, even people relatively new to Linux like myself, are the computer experts of their family/area/whatever, and have influence on others in the way of computers. This move, and the publicity it is getting, could have a very large effect on those people who can change the status of the Operating System marketplace.

Fifth, this comes at a great time for Ubuntu, in my opinion. Dell's Linux program is just getting off its feet as Ubuntu continue to mature, and become a stable, reliable OS on nearly all platforms, including the 64-bit platform, a place in which Windows has failed. Ubuntu has been a quality product since I first tried the 5.04 live CD, and with five releases under its belt, Ubuntu has quickly become a polished, leading system in the market. By the time this deal comes full-circle, Ubuntu will likely be ahead of Vista in every aspect, with the possible exception of support for Windows-only software. In addition, at Ubuntu's current rate of growth, it will have a substantial user-base to support any major move by Dell or any other major computer company.

If you didn't feel like reading all that, here's a summary: cautious optimism.:)

[Adamant1988]

My two cents on this whole deal:

First of all, obviously very good for Linux. Also, another +1 for Dell: The other day, I tested their new n-series Dimension desktop against the equivalent Windows model. Same hardware from the same companies: the nSeries was $60 cheaper.

Second, it's put out of proportion. I've read all sorts of news (just do a google news search for "Ubuntu") about this deal, and people are saying "Linux Preinstalled!" and all sorts of other things. In fact, that's the title of this thread. While that would be nice, it's not happening yet. Dell said they would certify computers as being Linux friendly, and ship no Operating System. While there may be deals in the works, Dell has not released any, as of the last time I looked at an official announcement.

Third, while myself and many others think Ubuntu is the best, I find it hard to believe that Dell could choose it at the moment, especially to rival Vista. In my mind, as well as my interpretation of Bug #1, rivaling and surpassing Microsoft, or any other leader's best efforts on an operating system, both technically and visually, is the main goal for Ubuntu. However, the Beryl project, which is very good and promising (I look for feisty+1 or 2 to boast out-of-the-box innovations which are market-leading in terms of visual appeal), is not ready to be preinstalled and advertised for its effects, because it is rather unreliable.

Fourth, this is a good idea for Dell, and it sort of reminds me of what I've heard of Google's emergence as a search engine: they start with the people who know. Many people on this forum, even people relatively new to Linux like myself, are the computer experts of their family/area/whatever, and have influence on others in the way of computers. This move, and the publicity it is getting, could have a very large effect on those people who can change the status of the Operating System marketplace.

Fifth, this comes at a great time for Ubuntu, in my opinion. Dell's Linux program is just getting off its feet as Ubuntu continue to mature, and become a stable, reliable OS on nearly all platforms, including the 64-bit platform, a place in which Windows has failed. Ubuntu has been a quality product since I first tried the 5.04 live CD, and with five releases under its belt, Ubuntu has quickly become a polished, leading system in the market. By the time this deal comes full-circle, Ubuntu will likely be ahead of Vista in every aspect, with the possible exception of support for Windows-only software. In addition, at Ubuntu's current rate of growth, it will have a substantial user-base to support any major move by Dell or any other major computer company.

If you didn't feel like reading all that, here's a summary: cautious optimism.:)

I read into that when the actual thing was happening (still is, though). Even just a certification against the major Linux distributions would be enough to make most happy. I'm hoping for pre-installed, but I would be willing to accept that they might now pre-install them. However, having a completely functionaly system with wifi and graphics "out of the box" (whether I install it the distro or not) would do WONDERS for my opinion of Dell. Just being friendly would be fine.

[Patrick K]

Looks like Dell is ready to start selling laptops and desktop with Linux pre-installed. They are talking to Novell so it looks like it might be Suse. In the article Ubuntu get a nice mention.
http://www.rawstory.com/showarticle.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.pcworld.com%2 Farticle%2Fid%2C129363-c%2Clinux%2Farticle.html

[MetalMusicAddict]

I want it to be completely clear and see a post that says that home users will get these options. Dell has sold linux boxes for business but its always mentioned that their contracts with MS stop them from selling to home users. If this is still true Id like to know what has changed.

[Patrick K]

Did you read the article?

[MetalMusicAddict]

Yes. I don't think its clear. "Consumers" doesn't expressly mean "Home users". The article gives that leeway.

[AlexC_]

There has already been about 3-4 threads on this subject. They've now been merged into one big one. (can't find the link right now though)

[Patrick K]

Sub $500 laptops are mentioned. I doubt anyone uses those for corporate servers. I think it will be for the general public. The hardware requirements of Vista figure quite prominent in the article. The past Linux server market is mentioned. It may not happen, since they are in the research stage right now. But as public dissatisfaction with Vista grows this could move Dell and maybe others to offer Linux as an alternative.

[Adamant1988]

I want it to be completely clear and see a post that says that home users will get these options. Dell has sold linux boxes for business but its always mentioned that their contracts with MS stop them from selling to home users. If this is still true Id like to know what has changed.

Microsoft charging them twice for Vista what they charged for XP might be a good place to start with the differences.


As for the Article, we've all seen this...

[JAPrufrock]

Will this effect Ubuntu?

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2098607,00.asp

[SunnyRabbiera]

mabe, but in a good way.
Dells recent linux moves have been encouraging and even though i think dell really sucks the company has shown the way to linux for all other companies.
I can see HP and IBM doing this too for thier desktops in the very near future.

[H.E. Pennypacker]

This has nothing to do with personal notebooks. It's only talking about business notebooks and desktops.

This has been discussed elsewhere here.

[izanbardprince]

Yeah, but you can still buy a "business" notebook with Linux on it.

[aysiu]

I've merged this with the other, similar thread.

[mtn]

There has been a lot of discussion about Dell's Ideastorm (http://www.dellideastorm.com), here (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=370868&highlight=ideastorm) and on various news/blog sites. I had been following the top thread on ideastorm, promoting Linux as an option, and I had been generally thinking lobbying Dell, and Dell maybe eventually selling pre-installed Linux machines would be a good thing.

Then I read this
http://blog.lobby4linux.com/archives/104-So,-How-Does-It-Feel-To-Have-Been-Had.h,tml and it all seemed to make sense.

MS seem to be in trouble with Vista, huge development costs, an unenthusiastic reception, people put off by DRM and the rise of Linux and open source. There seems to be a convergence of two things happening which I can only imagine have got MS think long and hard. 1) People increasingly don't want Windows, for numerous reasons, cost, security, DRM etc. 2) Linux and open source has reached a crucial point where it is as easy if not easier to use even for new comers. I have personally seen the effects of this with 5 people I know, now using Ubuntu, that a few months ago would not even have considered it. On a national level, in the last month or so, I have read about a number different nations/localities government departments/institutions switching to Linux including Brazil, Venezuela, South Africa, India, Thailand, Vietnam, the French central Government, a number of Dutch and German cities etc etc. The other more obvious point is that if Linux is a comparable product to Windows but Linux is free how do MS compete - in my view they don't and, all things being equal, are finished as an OS vendor in the long run. Of course they have huge resources to stop this happening.

So with this kind of future on the horizon they are tying to co opt Linux, inviting Novell into bed, to acquire MS Linux, making sure the business world knows that unless they use MS sanctioned Linux there could be trouble, and now getting the Linux community to lobby for MS sanctioned Linux on Dell for the wider consumer market - before people find and get used to Ubuntu (and other distros). Anyway, I can't really put it better than the How-Does-It-Feel-To-Have-Been-Had blog (above). Needless to say this looks like an evil evil plan for MS et al to profit from the work of Linux/open source developers.

I'm not taking part in ideastorm anymore, that is for sure.

[PrinceArithon]

It does seem like a possibility. From what I have been reading, it looks like Dell has backed off and that they aren't going to be putting Linux on the computers for a while. I don't know really what is going on, and I don't have an opinion yet...I just hope they really didn't taunt us with candy and then take it away.

[izanbardprince]

It is possible that with all of Microsoft's UNIX work with IBM that they're holding patents that are related to Linux, they're not saying what they have because then there would be enough time for Linux to be changed so as to not infringe.

[ComplexNumber]

they're not saying what they have because then there would be enough time for Linux to be changed so as to not infringe.
yeah, thats true. all MS want is for the threat from MS to appear real. maybe linux impinges on MS patents (very doubtful, but it doesn't matter to MS whether it does or not), maybe it doesn't. there is always going to be that nagging doubt in investors minds, and thats what MS want. as long as they keep everything vague, thats exactly how they want it to be. they' re NOT In the slightest bit interested in suing any linux distros because they know that they will be shooting themselves in the foot (especially with their shareholders). thats never going to happen, but they can help to propel business from red hat (the one that they want to kill most) into novell arms. after they've helped to divert enough business to novell, they may well have something up their sleeves for novell.
then again, it doesn't seem like redhat is going anywhere but up.

[aysiu]

I've merged this into the Linux / Dell Idea Storm thread.

[Daveski]

Idea Storm is offline - I wonder if this is temporary. Also the service is hosted on a Linux server:

Apache/2.2.2 (Fedora) Server at www.dellideastorm.com Port 80

[kevinlyfellow]

Yeah, but you can still buy a "business" notebook with Linux on it.

I've also heard that you can buy 3 different desktop systems with RHEL on it. Can someone provide links to prove this (or buying business notebooks with linux), because I look around on their site I have no clue where I can buy these products. I know that they offer servers with red hat, but I see nothing in the way of desktops or notebooks.

[kevinlyfellow]

I found them thanks to dracomordag
http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/precn_n?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd

Mr. Prosser said, "You were quite entitled to make any suggestions or protests at the appropriate time, you know."
"Appropriate time?" hooted Arthur. "Appropriate time? The first I knew about it was when a workman arrived at my home yesterday. I asked him if he'd come to clean the windows and he said no, he'd come to demolish the house. He didn't tell me straight away of course. Oh no. First he wiped a couple of windows and charged me a fiver. Then he told me."
"But Mr. Dent, the plans have been available in the local planning office for the last nine months."
"Oh yes, well, as soon as I heard I went straight round to see them, yesterday afternoon. You hadn't exactly gone out of your way to call attention to them, had you? I mean, like actually telling anybody or anything."
"But the plans were on display..."
"On display? I eventually had to go down to the cellar to find them."
"That's the display department."
"With a flashlight."
"Ah, well, the lights had probably gone."
"So had the stairs."
"But look, you found the notice, didn't you?"
"Yes," said Arthur, "yes I did. It was on display on the bottom of a locked filing cabinet stuck in a disused lavatory with a sign on the door saying 'Beware of the Leopard.'"

[FyreBrand]

You can actually find the link at Dell's main site now. When you go to dell.com you will see the desktop, laptop, and a couple other icons. When you mouse over laptops or desktops from the available options choose "small business". When you are in the small business section go back to the menu bar and mouseover laptops. There will be an option for "open source" near the bottom.

Whoa describing mousing through a gui is tricky. Too bad there isn't a terminal command to get to the same place. hehe

[billdotson]

I was reading that Dell read their suggestion box from a bunch of people that said they wanted Linux pre-installed on desktops. Dell was like "ok but we are not going to install them we are just going to release a line of desktops that are Linux "supported". Why doesn't Dell just go ahead and pre-install a line of desktops/laptops with Linux and quit beating around the bush with "we will give support for Linux but no install it or anything."

The only reason I can think of is that if they make a line of Dell Linux desktops Microsoft will cut their Windows deals. But hey.. if Windows cuts out their deals.. just use only Linux.. then you have an entire company not having to pay for a Windows OS to put on their system and then they could sell the desktops/laptops and advertise it like "Hey! This computer is $200-300 cheaper than the exact same one that is running Windows! All the software on this computer is free so imagine how much money you can save later. You won't have to buy any software!" If a company like Dell had Linux on their desktops like that developers would be forced to create critical home applications that people use Windows for like Quicken, TurboTax and possibly even commercial games.

That is what my thoughts on it are.. but hey I am not Dell .. :\

[FyreBrand]

There is already a thread discussing this here: Dell Ideastorm (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=370868)

[MKR.]

That would be equivalent to coca-cola only selling water. They know their product isn't too good for their customers, but if they stop selling it, the customers go elsewhere.

If Dell cut MS off, their customers would go elsewhere, and the remaining Linux users wouldn't be enough to prop them up.

[billdotson]

well then they really can't have Linux pre-installed on them then because if they do Microsoft will cut them off and then the only choice they have is to pay more for Windows or go all Linux

[billdotson]

I would like to see Ubuntu pre-installed on Dells as I really like Ubuntu and from what I have heard compared to other distros like OpenSUSE the debian apt is easier to deal with than yum

[izanbardprince]

Michael Dell answered this already.

It's pretty much the sheer number of distributions, and hiring and training people to support them, and certifying hardware to work with each distribution.

So do they say, hey we want Ubuntu, or we want Fedora, Red Hat, Suse.....etc and all their customers are mad cause it's not the distro they wanted.

Personally, I hate pretty much all the RPM-based distros, (possible exception being Mandriva) I think DEB is just so much better it's unreal, so they'd honk me off if they started shipping Suse.

[izanbardprince]

well then they really can't have Linux pre-installed on them then because if they do Microsoft will cut them off and then the only choice they have is to pay more for Windows or go all Linux

Not so, HP sells servers running Linux.

Besides, if Microsoft stopped doing business with Dell, they'd be in court again (anti-trust).

I have a feeling Dell would be more open towards the idea of pre-installing Suse, since Novell and Microsoft are in bed now.

[aysiu]

There is already a thread discussing this here: Dell Ideastorm (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=370868)
Merged.

[billdotson]

generally Ubuntu seems to be the most popular distribution of Linux right now. I have not yet ried RPM-based distro's but from what I have heard I would definitely not want an RPM-based distro like OpenSUSEover Ubuntu.

To get Dell to offer Linux pre-installed the Linux community needs to decide on what they want pre-installed.. whether it be 1 major RPM-based distro and 1 deb based distro or either have just deb or just rpm. This is the only place where commercial OSes have Linux OSes "beat" There is a standard. There is either the latest and the last version of Windows or the newest version of Mac's OS (btw is OS X just Mac's OS now and they upgrade it by going from tiger to panther to leopard and so on.. will we see a Mac OS XI?

so, yeah I didn't think about Microsoft having to go to court again if they cut Dell's deals on Windows. That is a valid point. Although shipping Suse wouldn't please me as I am now accustomed to Ubuntu and how deb works for the most part. what we need to do is get Ubuntu running on top of the Haiku OS kernel and THEN get it on the Dells. From what I hear the Haiku OS kernel is/is going to be incredibly efficient and incredibly fast.. but that is a point for another day.

Also, I do not keep up with the legal battles and deals between major companies and such so could you please key me in as to what has been going on with Novell and Microsoft? Does it relate to Steve Ballmer's FUD campaign about Linux stealing Microsoft's IP and how MS said you wouldn't get in trouble if you used SUSE? or does it have something to do with mono and the C# language?

[kevinlyfellow]

You can actually find the link at Dell's main site now. When you go to dell.com you will see the desktop, laptop, and a couple other icons. When you mouse over laptops or desktops from the available options choose "small business". When you are in the small business section go back to the menu bar and mouseover laptops. There will be an option for "open source" near the bottom.

Whoa describing mousing through a gui is tricky. Too bad there isn't a terminal command to get to the same place. hehe

I still think that its a bit of an easter egg, but easier than I thought. I don't understand why they don't list freedos and red hat under "Operating Systems"

[billdotson]

the Linux community really needs to choose a distro we want to see Dell pre-install and centralize efforts on that one distro to make it the best distro it can be. Granted there are so many different distributions of Linux OSes and that is cool and all but wouldn't Linux generally get better if we focused on a few of the bigger better distros instead of 350+ distros?

maybe we should try to get the Linux development somewhat centralized on a few of the most popular distros in order to try and help Dell in getting Linux pre-installed on some of their PCs.

[FyreBrand]

Not so, HP sells servers running Linux.

Besides, if Microsoft stopped doing business with Dell, they'd be in court again (anti-trust).

I have a feeling Dell would be more open towards the idea of pre-installing Suse, since Novell and Microsoft are in bed now.Dell also has a deal with Red Hat and SUSE. Many companies are familiar with, have support setup and trust both of those businesses for enterprise level solutions. It only makes sense that they would choose one or both of these for their default installs. This is especially true since currently their only Linux offerings are for small to large businesses.

I'm not a big fan of rpm package management either, but I would rather have this installed and just install K/X/Ubuntu over the top of it.

I doubt they would choose to install SUSE just because of some business deal Novell has with Microsoft. That is just pure conjecture and dramatic FUD. Novell's business with Microsoft has pretty much nothing to do with what Dell installs on their systems.

[johnwlittle]

A huge story on CNN (http://money.cnn.com/2007/03/06/technology/dell_linux.reut/index.htm) this morning:

Dell is considering offering the Linux operating system as an alternative to Microsoft's Windows on its personal computers, a Dell spokesman said on Tuesday.

The PC maker said it received more than 100,000 customer requests for Linux in a "suggestion box" posted on Dell's Web site less than three weeks ago.

"We are listening to what customers are saying about Linux and taking it into consideration," said Dell spokesman David Lord. "We are going forward. Let's say, 'Certainly stay tuned.'"

[maniacmusician]

Interesting....maybe they'll suck it up and do something after all.

[Brunellus]

that's the most non-comittal answer they could have given. This is not news.

It is news when they say that they'll offer pre-installed Linux (even if it's SUSE) on their consumer models. Until then, nothing.

[prizrak]

Chances are it will be SuSE and there will be some kind of an agreement to make sure that no other distro is allowed to get the drivers. Sorry I may be jaded but I don't believe in Dell. If HP said that I would be a bit more optimistic.

[jclmusic]

'considering' until microsoft bribe them not to, yet again?

[Brunellus]

'considering' until microsoft bribe them not to, yet again?
is the correct answer.

[jongkind]

Chances are it will be SuSE and there will be some kind of an agreement to make sure that no other distro is allowed to get the drivers. Sorry I may be jaded but I don't believe in Dell. If HP said that I would be a bit more optimistic.

http://www.crn.com/hardware/197800591

[justin whitaker]

I get that john is on the marketing team, but spouting this sort of stuff does more harm than good to Linux.

Dell did not say anything of substance about Linux. I've heard, from various rumor mills and podcasts that:


They are going to offer a Linux desktop or laptop (not likely-doesn't their agreement with Microsoft prevent this?).
They are going to offer a business class SUSE desktop.(likely)
They will certify a desktop or laptop to be Linux compatible with X distro (very likely)
They will offer desktops or laptops without operating systems.(likely)


One thing Dell does not want to do is anger Microsoft, and the other thing is that they do not want to have to support every distribution out there.

It's also unclear if those 100,000 translate into any sales, which is what Dell actually cares about.

Let's not proclaim a victory unless it is assured.