MacBook Pro shopping for Ubuntu :) [Archive]

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patchkov

February 22nd, 2007, 05:28 AM

tylerdurden

February 22nd, 2007, 09:22 AM

i just bought a macbook... its great... i have ubuntu running as a VM and it runs great... what program are you looking to run under linux? cad? anything that is really resource intensive? ONCE YOU GO MAC... YOU NEVER GO BACK

mustang

February 22nd, 2007, 09:50 AM

Hi everyone,

I am planning on buying MacBook Pro. Recently, I am using MacOSX at work and from quite a long time I am fed up with Windows (brrr), so I am planning on buying new MacBook Pro. Unfortunatelly, Linux is still not enough mature to be running all my needed software which I use at work :(

Any way, I plan to use Linux as extensivelly as possible, let the idea of free, good working OS be spread around.

However my point is... I plan to buy that Mac to mainly use Ubuntu. Any advice, any quirks? What you think about that idea? Any of you with the same thing? Some would say, Apple is too expensive, but if I want to buy a good laptop, IBM or Sony, I would pay even more(!). And I simply believe Apple makes one of the best computers and picks the right hardware.

Just mainly I write that post, so I can convince myself more on buying Apple machine :)

Regards,
Kris

Well there are a lot of quirks that still need to be smoothened out. I bought a macbook (non pro, first generation) to run linux, not osx on it. Unfortunately, critical features such as suspend to ram and power management are still not there yet. If you are dedicated enough, you could try a gentoo installation. People have successfully been able to tweak it for their macbooks so that everything works fine. I unfortunately don't have that kind of time on me. On the other end, I've heard fedora works well with the macbooks (ie everything "just works") so you might want to research into that.

Otherwise, I can't say it would be worth it. However, don't forgot you're getting osx with your macbook and I would urge you try it just for the experience. OSX is a very capable operating system and with fink, you can run *nix applications. I would say it's the easiest operating system to use but I still don't find it as customizable/powerful as linux.

Also, keep hanging around the feisty forum and launchpad as well to see if any progress is being made for macbook users. There are a slew of bugs posted on launchpad for the macbook but very few of them seem to be resolved.

rigdzinthar

February 22nd, 2007, 11:39 AM

have you tried with the live CD?
it worked really great on my macbook (non pro). I just bough it, it is cool!
but remember, you can even install KDE almost natively on mac!
http://ranger.users.finkproject.org/kde/index.php/Home

I had some success with it, but did not have a lot of time to fool around with it.

Personally I am going to keep OS X because the macs are designed around it.

did you think that the remote control might not work? *the macs come with remote controls for movies and stuff*

Ubuntos

February 22nd, 2007, 10:55 PM

patchkov

February 23rd, 2007, 04:57 AM

Hi guys,

Thanks a lot for replies. I know this question was less problematic, but rather like "black or white pair of socks" :)

Let me first answer question for what I will be using Linux. I am already using linux. CAD unfortunatelly is not the strongest site of Linux, unless specified company really want to use it. These days what I find Linux very useful is all sort of Xfig graphics + itegration with LaTeX. The other stuff is Mathematica software + some of profesional CAD but more specified on FEM (Finite Element Method) Analysis, such as Abaqus (www.abaqus.com). Plus what I really love is PostScript file + PDF which could be generated out from particulary any program running under linux. I play with linux from quite a long time, with some longer brakes (all in all, around 10 years(?)). Finally, it happened, I beloved Mac at work and generally all that stuff which I can do, what I described above. It just appears these days Ubuntu is so great, with some time spent on it, it make life easy as Mac. I really put a lot of hopes into Mac. Just let Linux world unite, work, collaborate more together and I believe we can achieve something better than Mac OS X. BTW. Guys, try Songbird, I am amused completely! It work flowless under my Ubuntu, I tried it on Mac and it is slooow. Under linux, perfect! And for me it is better than iTunes(!).

These days I am able to tweak any ubuntu system to something like OS X. What I mean is font rendering and way it works. Fonts are crispy, nice, very well readable. At work I both work on all three systems using one monitor. I just use one button to jump from one screen to another. I need to tell you guys that browser (I use epiphany, but it doesn't really matter) window content under linux looks exactly the same as under OS X, but obviously everything is Ubuntu like :) I am very glad. I just think Linux has got huge capabilities, it just needs well mannared maintance like OS X. OS X is UNIX, it just has got a lot of effort of great a group of programers which work tightly TOGETHER. Good example of software for Linux is Songbird.

I like the black MacBook idea with Ubuntu, sounds cozy :) I like it :) However it is expensive, but really nice looking :) Friend of mine just bought 17'' Dell Laptop, with quite satisfying configuration for just around 800$, I was amazed(!). However still somehow nice Apple design + hardware push me somehow into Apple computer world, even if I cannot really afford 2000-2500$. But just want a descent laptop computer, which at least will server me for 5 years with full success. Friend of mine still uses G4 PowerBook laptop, I think it is great! Just considering computation power makes it look less atractive than new Core 2 :) But despite that, it is great working computer(!).

OK I wrote quite a lot, but just wanted to share with you my opinions.

Cheers guys,
Kris

cendant

February 23rd, 2007, 09:21 AM

Why would one use Ubuntu on Macs?

I am puzzled.

I work in Apple, but use Ubuntu on Acer laptop at home. I wouldn't buy a MacBook to use Ubuntu?

Why pay the premium?

patchkov

February 24th, 2007, 05:44 AM

To have a descent system, descent computer, descent design, lightweight laptop and most of all to follow and spread ideology. Yes... indeed ideology. Just because of our human nature, that we want things to be comfortable and we are lazy, we usually decide to pay for many thinks which does not go back with a benefit to us.
OK... it is benefit, but by paying to others, so we can use their descent system which is OS X. But if you work longer with OS X you will discover that it is nothing more like *nix system... actually, you can run most of default stuff using NeXT platform under any of linux system. It won't look as nice as in OS X, but still you see this is generally the same stuff. You can run mail agent, run TextEdit etc. So if it is UNIX it means all the thing is just almost perfectly managed *nix system. So why not invest some, at least a little, of our effort into linux community and as long as it gives us ability to work, get used to it (because this is I guess one of the most important things and which keeps people away - unfamiliarity) and spread the system around our "homies" and others to make it better. Why better? Because, more people use it and when more people use it, it becomes at some point (if we are lucky) high percentage, which is perfect because developers start seeing our market as benefitial, so they start porting software to our platform, which is LINUX. This is what we want, we want more attention, because the thing which we use is beautiful system, but still in some chaos universe, and we want to make it beautiful. The best example is Mac. This is nothing else like our Ubuntu, just in different flavor and with some spices ;)

Final point. I also want to buy Mac, because in case I will need some Win or Mac programs I can still launch it, because my computer will allow me to do it. That's Mac :)

PS. Actually, maybe I mentioned it already, I made my Ubuntu display the fonts in exact crispy way as Mac do... I love it, it makes your work pleasant. I am quite esthetic person, I worked in my ealier years in graphic/web design so maybe this convince you a little bit. I say this, because often I meet people claming something looks nice, whereas it looks still quite crappy, but still better than raw linux font ;)

Cheers,
Kris

patchkov

February 24th, 2007, 05:46 AM

BTW. You say you bought ACER to use OS X? You say it is overpriced computer just to use Ubuntu? I guess you more developed reply could be interesting :)

cendant

February 24th, 2007, 07:07 AM

Oh maybe, you want to use .Mac and also DRM in iTunes?

cendant

February 24th, 2007, 07:18 AM

BTW. You say you bought ACER to use OS X? You say it is overpriced computer just to use Ubuntu? I guess you more developed reply could be interesting :)

No, no, it is very difficult to make to make OS X to work on common PCs like ACER.

Mine is Pentium 4 3.06GHz, I run Ubuntu Linux Edgy on it and I am very happy with it.

I tried many times to switch to Linux, but it was like child's play: maybe yes, maybe no. But last October I installed Edgy and never looked back to Windows. Ubuntu is such a puppy that delivers everthing to you!

Now, at the moment you still pay premium when buying MacBooks. and yes, that premium is because you pay for the OS X and all apps on it (like for Windows machines)

Pros:
- extremely quite
-very thin
- not bad quality (but not the best as some Mac fans may insist)

Cons:
- high price (even with my employee discount 17" model is 2000 euro which is a lot)
- too powerful processor (you pay the premium to Intel) and too weak videocard (X2600 are already on the market)
- poor quality of iSight
- one-mouse button (come on, I do not want to carry external mouse all the time with me)
- Enter key and arrow keys are SO tiny and awkward

Question: why pay 2700 euro for MacBook Pro 17" when you can buy Acer 17" for around 2000 euro with better graphics, larger hard drive, better webcam, proper touchpad, same weight and battery life.

OK, you won't get keyboard backlight (I never used it anyway and some new PC laptops will have it) and that stupid glowing Apple on the lid.

But, you can run Linuxes and Windows on it without paying for Mac OS. And you are right, Mac OS X is not the superior OS: some bugs in it are 6 years old! It can be slow sometimes (even with Core 2 Duo and 3 Gigs of memory) and I cannot change the UI like I can in Ubuntu (gosh, those icons in the system are 6 years old!)

So, why pay extra for getting MacBook?! Oh, maybe you want to pay for .Mac and DRM in iTunes?

patchkov

February 25th, 2007, 05:19 AM

Oh, crap :) Yesterday I was really tired, I meant to say, you bought ACER to use Ubuntu.
And definitelly, I am against DRM and all that thing, however Macs are still well design computers.

And what I meant in my question is, whether you bought ACER just to use Ubuntu?
Generally, I want to buy Mac because of its nice shape, thickness, weight, screen. I do not find any other laptop as atractive as MacBooks Pro are.

cendant

February 25th, 2007, 04:38 PM

No, I bought this Acer laptop 4 years ago when Ubuntu did not exist.

In fact, Ubuntu is the first Linux that was love at first sight. I tried many distributions, but only Ubuntu made me delete Windows forever. I never looked back, I even keep my data on 500 GiB drive in Ext3 format which means I am not going back to NTFS.

As for Macs, I went to PC World today to compare them to MacBooks.

PC laptops look shiny (aren't we like magpies attracted to shiny things?), they look nice. But if you look more attentively you will see that they are badly build (HP, Advent, Sony, Compaq, etc) and technically they are not perfect.

MacBooks are nice (although I dislike the grey color), very thin compared to PC laptops. You are right in saying that they are nice machines.

BUT: I will wait personally.

1) my Acer's screen is much brighter, and contrasty as compared to MacBook screens, and the colors are better. and remember, this Acer is 4 years old!
2) I do not like the small Return key and tiny arrow keys
3) There are new Intel processors due in April
4) Videocard is obsolete

Are you in Ireland? I can get three systems a year for friends with 17% discount.

patchkov

February 25th, 2007, 06:50 PM

Hi there,

Thanks for reply. Something weird happened with ubuntuforums. Yesteday, I couldn't see your full reply, just question whether I want to use .Mac and DRM. Today your full answer appeared before my msg :|

As I said, obviously, I hate whole idea of .Mac, DRM, etc.
In my case I played with linux similarly, however always after some time I was coming back to Windows (now, I own Toshiba, P4 Celeron, 512 RAM; it is around 5 years old). Always something made me switch back. From two years I work with Mac and I enjoy it a lot, but what I discover it is just pure *nix box, just programmed so its own programs (and others, selected) will load fast. If you want to install some not standard big, chunki software sometimes it slows down like hell, so as you say.

Great thanks for offer with laptop, however, right now I live in US. Here I can get Apple 17'' for 2500$ + university discount would be probably around 2300$.

I know there are going to be new procs in Macs somewhere around second quarter of that years. Second thing, Apple plan to introduce additional fast memory. I do not remember how this solution is called, but this is suppose to make Macs start almost instantly. I guess at begining it will not work with linux systems, but any way it is good to have it and probably soon PCs will have the same.

Generally, I am looking for blazing fast (proc is important), generally great computer and all the other points which I said before. These days, Macs look like a best choice. If I want to buy really good PC laptop like Lenovo or IBM, I would pay much more with same specification. Even if I really want to find something with similar specs, I cannot find anything. OK, friend of mine bought nice Dell for around 1000$, however, somehow I do not trust that choice. Why? If you are not standard user, you buy such computer, and in my experience after some time, when you work, you just discover this computer is not what you want. Any way.. difference between 1000$ dell and 2500$ is quite significant, so 1500$ in pocket makes me think - only in case that time linux will survive for longer. Right now I use it from Dapper and it is great. BTW. Try Songbird... superb(!).

The most important thing. I want my laptop to survive around 5 years. So far Macs have got all features to be such a computer. And yes, when I look almost at any of PCs they look mostly like toys, or other way, heavy like bricks :) There is always some "trade on" (I guess I used right word). Mac has got everything I need - looking at hardware site. Even, if this is very expensive toy for my budget and probably I shouldn't buy it something just make me do it - macs commercials? Tech spec? Good company? Who knows.

I just have a lot of hopes in great future of linux. So far, from year to year it looks much better.

BTW. If I can ask, in what industry you work? For what you use your comps?

cendant

February 25th, 2007, 07:24 PM

i work in apple itself, engineering...

btw, nothing happened to the forum. i just added that line on .mac and drm and accidentally deleted the rest. saved - and i guess you looked at the page at that moment.

then i went back and restored all the text which you saw later. funny coincidence

patchkov

February 26th, 2007, 01:11 AM

Ha, nice :) Apple worker using and admiring Ubuntu :) Nice.

What I really miss in Ubuntu is Apple Dock thing. There are couple in Linux, but far away from Mac thing.

patchkov

February 26th, 2007, 04:17 AM

patchkov

February 27th, 2007, 04:12 AM

No answer? Hmm... mistery :) I want answer ;)

cocoia

February 27th, 2007, 07:56 AM

cendant

February 27th, 2007, 09:28 AM

One more thing.
Maybe I'm a little snoopy :) but...
You said you work for Apple... why the hack someone working for apple still uses old PC and as you said, when you found edgy you switched completely to ubuntu from WINDOWS. Why would Apple engineer (I guess software eng.) use PC with Win :|
Comparing Win vs. OS X, the OS X is superb.
Cheers,
Kris

Eghh, I started my "hello world" with computers in 1987 when PCs were more common than Macs. Remember the history...

So, I guess that is why I kept using Windows. I do no really care which platform I use as long as it is not obtrusive.

Edgy is perfect for my home needs, at work I use Macs because they are our bread. Mac OS X is nice, Windows is ok (I never caught a virus or malware or BSOD), but I rather like the look of GNOME and functionality of Debian applications.

Macs are nice, but not perfect. I use them at work because it is my bread. I enjoy working with them, but I do not suffer from fanaticism.

What I wanted to say in this thread, is why would people use Ubuntu on Macs? Macs and Mac OS X are created for each other like iPod and iTunes tandem.

In my view, PC laptops are better for Ubuntu Linux

cendant

February 27th, 2007, 09:30 AM

”my Acer's screen is much brighter, and contrasty as compared to MacBook screens, and the colors are better. and remember, this Acer is 4 years old!"

However, if you think this applies to the Macbook Pro screens, this is false. The Macbook Pro is one of the few laptops one can color-proof on. The display is of extraordinary quality.

I tried hardware color-profiling with MacBook Pro 17", still my 4-year old Acer has brighter screen and more vivid and nice colors. Prove me wrong, please

patchkov

February 27th, 2007, 02:31 PM

[...]
What I wanted to say in this thread, is why would people use Ubuntu on Macs? Macs and Mac OS X are created for each other like iPod and iTunes tandem.

In my view, PC laptops are better for Ubuntu Linux

Yeah, that's true. Macs and Mac OS X are created for each other, but it doesn't prove they (Macs) cannot be used with other OSs. It is like PC, just better :)
iPod is still a portable harddrive with music capabilities, maybe not blazing fast, but it is.

I guess it is one of never ending stories. Ones prefer Macs, others PCs and sooo on :)

Anyway, thanks for your input.
K

entangled

February 27th, 2007, 04:13 PM

Why would I use ubuntu on a mac?
I got a mac mini because it was the smallest, lowest power, quietest box I could find. I didn't want a laptop because of the price and limitations on keyboard layout, screen size and screen positioning.

I used Macos for a bit. After the novelty wore off I realised I liked gnome desktop better and it works well. Running ubuntu on a mac mini makes sense to me. It probably won't make sense to others who use different criteria.

hardyn

February 27th, 2007, 04:24 PM

Why would one use Ubuntu on Macs?

I am puzzled.

I work in Apple, but use Ubuntu on Acer laptop at home. I wouldn't buy a MacBook to use Ubuntu?

Why pay the premium?

I would have to agree... if you intend to use ubuntu for the majority your home computing time... why go apple? an almost identical machine spec. wise to the MBP is the dell 6400 hot rodded a little. if you company wants you to be doing work at home, get them to buy your MBP.

patchkov

February 27th, 2007, 07:54 PM

Ahh... I don't agree... or maybe I'm a little bit fed up with windows + not high shelf PC.

I went to Dell homepage and tried configuration which I like... 17'' Dell laptop around 1700$... for 1800$ I can get 15'' MacBook, this convince me more. If I want exactly the sam spec as IBM or SONY price is even higher. I guess finally I will stick to Mac ;)

Somehow I stopped trusting PC industry :( Or maybe that's it, that most of laptops available on the marked look ugly, are heavy and are uncomfotable to use/carry + I HATE, I HONESTLY HATE THE IDEA OF PAYING ADDITIONAL MONEY for CRAPPY Windows + other software which I will not use (like antivirus etc.). It is horrible, everyone force you to do so.

Linux industry, I beg you, create blazing fast and well orginized distribution to sell with PCs :) (I know, I know, Novell and Ubuntu are working on it) I am just surprised Mac finds its way, but Linux is almost unknown for common people.

cendant

February 28th, 2007, 06:27 AM

Huh, imagine someone asks you on the airplane:

- Is it a Macintosh?
- Yes
- It is lovely. And I look the look of the OS - it is beatiful and fast. It is called - ehhhhh - Mac OS?
- It is Linux
- Oh?!

cocoia

February 28th, 2007, 07:46 AM

Also, what I expirienced is that the Mac offers very good hardware quality and build quality. They have very good service (from what I have dealt with, a dead Macbook Pro and Macbook so far). The OS is also a dream, but it's not open source, it doesn't run all my linux applications.

patchkov

March 1st, 2007, 12:10 AM

Yeah, that thing in an airplane would be cool, hehe. But definitely I am going to get some *nix sticker and put at front, if I find really nice I will cover an Apple sign :)

Talking about not opensource system, that's what piss me off in Mac. From one point of view such beautiful (in every aspect) things like iPhone, but on the other hand they just make you to follow their own way.

These days, edgy runs really smooth, especially talking about P4 and up... At home on my P4Celeron it still works fine, but not as good as at work on P4 :) Anyway, linux is getting better and better.

patchkov

March 1st, 2007, 12:16 AM

cendant

March 1st, 2007, 09:57 AM

Yeah, that thing in an airplane would be cool, hehe. But definitely I am going to get some *nix sticker and put at front, if I find really nice I will cover an Apple sign :)
.

I put this "Ubuntu Linux for Human Beings" on my office machine which is PowerBook G4. All my collegues at Apple look at it and smile.

After all, it is nice to have choice...

dpny

March 1st, 2007, 03:57 PM

I tried hardware color-profiling with MacBook Pro 17", still my 4-year old Acer has brighter screen and more vivid and nice colors. Prove me wrong, please

Brighter and more vivid != accurate color representation. As the poster specifically said the MacBook Pro is one of the few screens one can color proof on, it seems s/he was talking about that. If you used serious, hardware-based color calibration equipment on your Acer you might find that, while the colors were brighter, they were not more accurate. Specifically, you might find your magentas and cyans blown out and your gray balance off.

patchkov

March 1st, 2007, 10:01 PM

I put this "Ubuntu Linux for Human Beings" on my office machine which is PowerBook G4. All my collegues at Apple look at it and smile.

After all, it is nice to have choice...

Do you run Ubuntu at work at all? :)

BTW. I guess, as far as I know, Apple is planning to launch 15.4'' MacBook.

BTW2. I figured out taxes for last year, it appeared I need to pay around 1k$ :| I also found Dell is having nice offers for Universities... maybe I will hit for 17'' Dell.. with that rabate, I will get quite descent machine for less than 1500$... with 256 ATI, 2GB RAM, 120 HDD, DVD burner included, and not standard enhanced screen. It looks reasonable, I hope my believe in linux will not break as it was a case with many previous disctributions :)
Anyway, still got some time until I buy anything.

ubix

March 3rd, 2007, 01:15 PM

I bought macbook black C2D 3 days ago. Completely removed macos and installed feisty herd 4 as the only OS. Well, i'm pretty happy with it. Had one quirk to make wireless mighty mouse vertical scroll to work. All the rest works ok. :guitar:

P.S. formatted HDD with old school bios partition table :)Way to, go Ubuntos! Mac OS X is a nice thing to look at but totally useless to use, if you do not spend additional money on extras they are pushing on you. But other "researchers" of the commercial world and how it stacks up to us, look here at the interesting link, where I posted some info that might be useful in your efforts to be true to Open Systems. http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=374542]Apple computers & Ubuntu :)

sandro27

March 3rd, 2007, 04:29 PM

Hey patchkov, the two of us are obviously in the same situation.
I need a new laptop too and I've been working with ubuntu for approx. 2 years.

I use a lot of applied math software like matlab, mathematica and some fininte element simulators and of course the C -language environment.
In my opinion Linux provides the perfect environment for stuff like that (in comparison with windows OS). I guess mac OSX is eliglible too since it is working on a UNIX kernel. But I don't have the software for mac ....

However, my impression is (due to all posts about mac and ubuntu) that ubuntu isn't running well on macbook natively. Instead ubuntu musst be running quite well using parallels.

But I don't think that "parallels" is the most appropriate solution for me because of the high cpu requirements (due to the extensive simulations).

What do you think ??

patchkov

March 5th, 2007, 08:15 PM

Naah :) I do not agree with that statement that Ubuntu does not run well on MacBooks. These days Macs are using x86 architecture, therefore no trouble. The only trouble could be (if any) with drivers for some things. All in all that shouldn't be a problem, especially that Macs are quite uniform in its own built and internet representation of people using Macs with linux systems is not small.

That's my opinion.

PS. Good to hear there are some more people working and using some FE and math in linux world :)