Linux Irritates Me / .deb is NOT easier than .rpm

[cinematography]

I can't believe I believed the hype. I went through the hell of switching from Mandrake to Ubuntu just because people told me debian based distros were easier for installing programs. They are NOT! It seems like I have to use the 1980s terminal technique more than ever! At least with .rpm files I could just click them and they would go. I'm so pissed off and tired right now. I'm really getting sick of this. I can't use Windows because it draws in viruses and spyware. I can't use Linux because it makes simple tasks insanely difficult. And I can't use Mac because I don't have the money. Uggg... Oh, and gnome is terrible. If you have to use the terminal for everything, it could at least make files easier to access like KDE does and load up from any directory. I hear everyone talking about 'simplicity'. Simplicity is only good for IT professionals and advanced users! The GUI was invented for a reason. Until the Linux community finds a way to bring users more automation (one click install, icons that make themselves, etc), it will never become as popular as Windows - hence, it will not get the kind of software support it wants.

[tread]

Try synaptic for installing applications.

[cinematography]

Try synaptic for installing applications.
Not everything I need is in synaptic. For example, Java. It's just as hard to install in Ubuntu as it was for me in Mandrake.

[TestDummy!]

I'd personally say I think the oppsite.

I remember using Suse...

I tried to install something. I had to hunt down all the RPM's it wanted, then had to install them all in a certain order. File A wanted File C, File C wanted File B and File B wanted file A. That kinda thing, I got stuck a lot.

Then I tried Ubuntu back in February. Much easier. I don't have a problem using one simple short command in a terminal to install stuff.

By the way, what exactly is it you are trying to install that is so difficult for you?

(I am aware installation of some things can have more difficulty than just a command, but overall, the installation of basic software is much easier if you ask me over what I used to use)

[tread]

Try visiting the Unofficial Ubuntu Guide (http://ubuntuguide.org). You can pretty much just paste the commands from the webpage onto the terminal .. also add the additional repositories suggested there.

[cinematography]

I tried to install something. I had to hunt down all the RPM's it wanted, then had to install them all in a certain order. File A wanted File C, File C wanted File B and File B wanted file A. That kinda thing, I got stuck a lot.
Huh? I never had this problem with Mandrake. I would click a file, the package manager would get everything else that file needed automatically, and I was done and ready to go. Ubuntu also has a nice package manager, but .deb files suck. When I click them they don't automatically go. I have to type in programmers code. I gave up programming a long time ago. I didn't want to go back to it. ](*,)

By the way, what exactly is it you are trying to install that is so difficult for you?
Java, mp3 support (I went to that one help site with the code and my mp3s still don't work), and I can't even find a CD burner program. I hear you can burn CDs with Nautilus, but... ugg... Simple GUIs usually require more research than complicated once. The more simple it is, the less self-explanitory it is also.

[cinematography]

Try visiting the Unofficial Ubuntu Guide (http://ubuntuguide.org). You can pretty much just paste the commands from the webpage onto the terminal .. also add the additional repositories suggested there.
Thank you for the guide. I've seen it before but I'll give it another look. However, I'm still pissed at the fact I just can't click icons to install programs anymore. .rpm files are an excellent step in the right direction.

[pdk001]

im totally agree
i've used to only redhat based .rpm and im sill feeling easier than debian based .deb
but linux users except beginner says .deb is better than .rpm

[TestDummy!]

mp3 support....

Hm, I don't remember having to do anything to get mp3's to work (Even though I have quite a bit more Ogg files than MP3) . Either it worked out of the box for me (First guess) or when I installed beep media player :-?

[cinematography]

im totally agree
i've used to only redhat based .rpm and im sill feeling easier than debian based .deb
but linux users except beginner says .deb is better than .rpm
After all the hype I heard about Debian based distros, I was expecting some real magic to happen with Ubuntu, the #1 Debian based distro. Ugg... Not only do I have to use more command line stuff, but the gnome gui isn't even set up in a way to make it easy for you to access the terminal from any directory window. :mad: I hear Fedora 3 is full of bugs, Mandrake had problems with my hardware... I'm running out of options.

[poofyhairguy]

I can't believe I believed the hype. I went through the hell of switching from Mandrake to Ubuntu just because people told me debian based distros were easier for installing programs. They are NOT! It seems like I have to use the 1980s terminal technique more than ever! At least with .rpm files I could just click them and they would go.

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=33584&highlight=click

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=33440

There you go. What you want. Searching the forum does good, but I guess ranting is easier.

The ONLY reason debs are better is because of the large repository of packages that Debian/Ubuntu has.

Hoary with the Universe/Multiverse enabled has 15000+ packages ready to be installed. A friend of mine that uses Mandrake told me that that distro has about 9000 packages availible. Thats why deb is better, no other reason. They are the same otherwise.

I'm so pissed off and tired right now. I'm really getting sick of this. I can't use Windows because it draws in viruses and spyware. I can't use Linux because it makes simple tasks insanely difficult. And I can't use Mac because I don't have the money. Uggg...

Then don't use a computer then. Its not like you have a God given right to use a computer how you want. The world in unperfect- deal with it. At least you have options.

Simplicity is only good for IT professionals and advanced users!

please read that to yourself. It is quite backwards. Most users WANT simplicity.

The GUI was invented for a reason. Until the Linux community finds a way to bring users more automation (one click install, icons that make themselves, etc), it will never become as popular as Windows - hence, it will not get the kind of software support it wants.

I get all the software support I could want and all my hardware runs great in Linux today. Every need of mine is met. If yours are not, use Windows. Its called choice. Linux isn't out to win popularity contests or convert the masses. Sure some of its supporters push this too far, but that is because they are flawed (like OSes or anything else).

If you would ask nicely what the problem is we can help. I bet what you want is something like this:

http://www.mrbass.org/linux/ubuntu/

Makes installing java pretty easy.

[Ironi]

FWIW, this guy posted on at least one other forum with an identical first post. Don't feed the trolls, eh? ;)

[cinematography]

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=33584&highlight=click

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=33440
Nice links. Thank you. :) What I'm wondering now is why that option doesn't come by default?

There you go. What you want. Searching the forum does good, but I guess ranting is easier.
I've been fighting with Linux for the last Month now. After all the hell I've been though, I had to let out some steam.

please read that to yourself. It is quite backwards. Most users WANT simplicity.
Too much can be just as bad as too little.

[cinematography]

FWIW, this guy posted on at least one other forum with an identical first post. Don't feed the trolls, eh? ;)
Yes I did and here is the link:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?s=&threadid=326474

I wanted to see if there were others who agreed with my sentiments.

[KiwiNZ]

I can't believe I believed the hype. I went through the hell of switching from Mandrake to Ubuntu just because people told me debian based distros were easier for installing programs. They are NOT! It seems like I have to use the 1980s terminal technique more than ever! At least with .rpm files I could just click them and they would go. I'm so pissed off and tired right now. I'm really getting sick of this. I can't use Windows because it draws in viruses and spyware. I can't use Linux because it makes simple tasks insanely difficult. And I can't use Mac because I don't have the money. Uggg... Oh, and gnome is terrible. If you have to use the terminal for everything, it could at least make files easier to access like KDE does and load up from any directory. I hear everyone talking about 'simplicity'. Simplicity is only good for IT professionals and advanced users! The GUI was invented for a reason. Until the Linux community finds a way to bring users more automation (one click install, icons that make themselves, etc), it will never become as popular as Windows - hence, it will not get the kind of software support it wants.

From your posts it would appear that you have had Ubuntu installed for 2 days, you installed it on the 2nd of May . It is the24th of May and you are ranting that it is useless and that you can't do this and can't do that .
How much prep did you do before installing?
Did you read how the Distro is made up ?
Did you research what was available to meet your needs?

Two days to have a distro as you want it ? I doubt if there is a single OS that would do that for you .

It would appear to me that you may have been the author of your own demise, but even that can be a learning experience for you.

A word of advise from a wise not so old Kiwi , if you want help on any forum don't blast off rubbishing the product ask politely for help and it will be given.

[cinematography]

You make a lot of valid points, KiwiNZ, and I apologize to everyone for going off. I work an insanely stressful job. After work, I want to get on a computer that will just work. I don't want to go through too much effort to figure out stuff. Windows gave me the kind of ease I wanted, but it gave it to me on a crappy filesystem and without much security. Yada - yada... You already know my story.

[nocturn]

Hm, I don't remember having to do anything to get mp3's to work (Even though I have quite a bit more Ogg files than MP3) . Either it worked out of the box for me (First guess) or when I installed beep media player :-?

It would be the beep media player.
Ubuntu does not install MP3 support by default for legal reasons.

[cinematography]

Wowsers! GDPM (Gnome Debian Package Manager).
http://ubuntuforums.org/images/smilies/eusa_dance.gif http://www.linuxquestions.org/questions/showthread.php?postid=1657822#post1657822

[poofyhairguy]

You make a lot of valid points, KiwiNZ, and I apologize to everyone for going off. I work an insanely stressful job. After work, I want to get on a computer that will just work. I don't want to go through too much effort to figure out stuff. Windows gave me the kind of ease I wanted, but it gave it to me on a crappy filesystem and without much security. Yada - yada... You already know my story.


Sounds like one of those Mac "switcher" stories to me....















Just poking at you a little. Glad you are in a better mod.

[cinematography]

Sounds like one of those Mac "switcher" stories to me....

Just poking at you a little. Glad you are in a better mod.
[-X :razz:

Maybe someone (maybe even me) could write a super simple noob friendly tutorial on things new Ubuntu users might need: mp3 codec, java, and right click .deb install. That's really the only things missing, in my opinion.

[Gowator]

[-X :razz:

Maybe someone (maybe even me) could write a super simple noob friendly tutorial on things new Ubuntu users might need: mp3 codec, java, and right click .deb install. That's really the only things missing, in my opinion.

You are also not understanding the difference between .deb and .rpm

Mandrake uses urpmi to install rpm's which has a lot of extra info on dependencies etc. between them. This wasn't the case with RedHat or suse ...

the PLF package other questionably legal stuff so you can install dvd playback/mp3 etc. but you still need to know where to look and its 'unofficial'

Debian do the same... you need to find the right sources, like apt-get.org and add these to your /etc/apt/sources.list (which can be done via synaptic if you like)

once this is done you need to refresh the sources or apt-get update
This is exacly like an
urpmi.addmedia and urpmi.update

after this the packages will appear in your package manager..whichever.

IMHO apt and debconf is better though for server stuff because it asks interactive questions in pre-post install .. whereas urpmi doesn't so then you need to configure server apps. For most non server stuff there is little difference ..you just need to learn a bit about the package managers ...

Ubuntu is a bit weird as a distro... finding the 'secrets' (packages not chosen by the developers) seems to be hush-hush.. for instance I use KDE and Kpackage but much of the stuff in Ubuntu is decided for you by developers and people here seem unable to talk about it if its not 'official'.

[poofyhairguy]

Maybe someone (maybe even me) could write a super simple noob friendly tutorial on things new Ubuntu users might need: mp3 codec, java, and right click .deb install.


Hmmm.....the Ubuntuguide is pretty easy to me, but that might mean something.


sounds like a good idea.

[cinematography]

Hmmm.....the Ubuntuguide is pretty easy to me, but that might mean something.


sounds like a good idea.
Yeah, it's easy when it works. :(
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=36598

[nocturn]

Ubuntu is a bit weird as a distro... finding the 'secrets' (packages not chosen by the developers) seems to be hush-hush.. for instance I use KDE and Kpackage but much of the stuff in Ubuntu is decided for you by developers and people here seem unable to talk about it if its not 'official'.

That is not true. You can talk about anything you like as long as you do it without resorting to insult.
I have found the UbuntuForums among the friendliest I have encountered so far.

[Moobert]

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=22646

Automated Script for New Users... sounds good, never tried it myself though :)

[deception]

Java, mp3 support (I went to that one help site with the code and my mp3s still don't work), and I can't even find a CD burner program. I hear you can burn CDs with Nautilus, but... ugg... Simple GUIs usually require more research than complicated once. The more simple it is, the less self-explanitory it is also.

Fire up synaptic. Look for mpg123.
Fire up synaptic. Look for graveman.

[deception]

For java etc...

http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=22646






EDIT:;;; oops, Moobert got there quicker :razz:

[AnGeLiX]

If you want to double click a *.deb and just installed in your system, you have to do this(for KDE, in GNOME you have to make it a little different).

Right Click a *.deb file.
Open With > Other
Open with: sudo dpkg -i
Check the 3 ticks (Run in terminal , do not close it and remember)
OK

From this point on when you double click a termninal will show up, ask for the admin password and then install the deb file.

[Gowator]

That is not true. You can talk about anything you like as long as you do it without resorting to insult.
I have found the UbuntuForums among the friendliest I have encountered so far.
Not really I have had a thread locked for DARING to discuss the stupid use of ALL:ALL in the sudoers file for instance.

Not only that ist is perfectly OK for a ubuntu user to call someone a moron for questioning the use of sudu but if you do question it you get warnings from mods.

This will either be deleted or locked just watch!

Its actually a great distro but for instance only official repositoties can be posted in the repositories threads, everything else has to be posted in 'chat'

On friendlyness.... sure unless you actually warn a user of the dangers of say running as root... then you get a mod warning saying stick to answering the questions!

I don't intend to post any answers here because of the shabby treatment I have seen to others who have questioned the developer descisions. Anyone is free to slam them and call them whatever and iof they react they are banned or modded!

watch
the Ubuntu sudo implementation is a pre-installed rootkit

/me waits for theread to be locked (even though its true)

[Gowator]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

" Who gave them the fscking right to choose what to lock down on my frigging box!

Seriously this is a disgraceful thing...."

They gave themselved the right when they decided to make the distro.

Seriously if you hate it so badly why are you still using it?

This thread is getting way out of hand. If someone wants to start a new, CONSTRUCTIVE thread about gripes/complaints, then feel free to do so. This one has turned to insulting the UBuntu developers, and the users, and lots of others.

for instance.....

we are meant to be constructive!!! In other words when the developers have made bad decisions stay quiet!

[Leif]

Not really I have had a thread locked for DARING to discuss the stupid use of ALL:ALL in the sudoers file for instance.


I'm not a mod, and I don't know what was going through the mind of the mod who locked the thread, but reading it, I think it's safe to say that you were not locked down for "DARING to discuss the stupid use of ALL:ALL in the sudoers file", but because of your abusive attitude. Writing fsck does not change the fact that you're saying **** and **** in a conversation, and you're doing it in an aggravating manner. That's why it was locked down. Not because of some conspiracy to keep your views hidden. Address them in a more civil tone and you can discuss them till the cows come home. Get over the persecution complex.

[logan2004]

dear cinemetography,

is there anything else you need help with?????


-logan

[Kyral]

cinemetography: I know how maddening computers get (don't get near me when my wireless network is acting up :P) but you need to chill. May I suggest two very fun games?

Frozen Bubble and TuxRacer

Both are in the repositories (though I forgot which ones, I have the Official, Backports, Debian, Universe, and Multiverse) and quite simple to play :D

sudo apt-get install frozen-bubble tuxracer

And yes, I prefer the commandline for installing debs and apt-get (as well as most system admin stuff)

[Moobert]

http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats

seems a good page for mp3 installing ect...

[jensyt]

I realize that most people have already answered the "double-click install" question, but I'm going to offer another solution similar to that. And yes, I've probably beaten the topic to death in other posts, but I figured this would be another good place to post it.

My brother, Daniel G. Taylor (member of this forum) and I made a small Python script called Debins. It allows you to install .deb files without directly using "dpkg -i". What it does is create a small repository in your root directory (hidden directory, won't get in anyone's way), and then uses apt to udpate just that repository and install the package via apt. Permitted the dependencies are already in apt's list, this will handle all dependencies.

It's worked flawlessly for everything I've tried it with, but mind you - there are no error messages. If something goes wrong, it will show you a nice graphical "success!" anyway. Yes, we're working on making it more useful in that respect, but nobody has shown any interest in the project as of yet. Also, our latest release allows for updating of just that repository, so you don't have to query and download from all servers like a normal "apt-get udpate" would do.

We originally posted in this thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=28650&page=5&pp=10&highlight=debins), you can see screenshots there.

The download link, if anyone's interested: http://www.programmer-art.org/files/debins/debins-1.tar.bz2

Also note, you can safely put this script into /usr/bin/ or into any of the other directories listed previously for installing through Nautilus, etc. Also, you can right-click and run with another program, etc. And like I said, I've never had a problem with it, but I do suggest using apt to check for packages before blindly downloading and installing .debs this way.

[Gowator]

I'm not a mod, and I don't know what was going through the mind of the mod who locked the thread, but reading it, I think it's safe to say that you were not locked down for "DARING to discuss the stupid use of ALL:ALL in the sudoers file", but because of your abusive attitude. Writing fsck does not change the fact that you're saying **** and **** in a conversation, and you're doing it in an aggravating manner. That's why it was locked down. Not because of some conspiracy to keep your views hidden. Address them in a more civil tone and you can discuss them till the cows come home. Get over the persecution complex.


Every time anyone mentions this then people respond in answers which would usually have someone warned or banned.. usually 'your an idiot read the FAQ' in fact anyone attacking anyone for criticising the developers decisions seems IMMUNE to forum rules so long as they only personally attack someone who criticises a developer descision.

Since there are no rules for criticisng anyone who criticises a developer decisionb then its not easy to keep civil, they can swear call you an idiot or whatever so long as your disagree and if you so much as use fsck back the thread is locked!


The problem is the FAQ is bull. Its full of misleading and incorrect instructions like the wiki.

Note the mods attitude: the developers have a right to install whatever on my box and compromise it because they invented the distro. IMHO this is very wrong as is the whole sudo use because it bypasses the intentions of the software developers....


This is clarified to mean only the thread, not the whole forum (as it says) but it is still preventing people using alternate repositories in a way....


This forum is for the installation, configuration, and usage of software supported by Ubuntu. That is, all the software in the main and restricted repositories.

Please only post relevant topics here.



Thanks,

Ubuntu Forums Team

[machiner]

Hey there cinemo...

The thing about Linux is that it's different. Written and used by people that compute. If you want rpm than stay with mdk or fc...it's your computer. If you want Windows stay with Windows. If you can't prevent your machine from falling victim to the latest malcontent...well. Unplug your machine and go outside. It's not Linux that is irritating you, it's you that's irritating you.

But I have something for you that you could have EASILY found all by yourself. Save the following as an .sh (call it install-debs.sh) file and save it to your /home/you/.gnome2/nautilus-scripts folder. After you save it, right click on it, choose properties, and make the thing executable.. bu you:
##########start copying below this line############

#!/bin/bash
#
# Version: 0.1
#
# This script is build to extract, install and get info about Debian packages (.deb:s)
#
# Distributed under the terms of GNU GPL version 2 or later
#
# Copyright (C) Pontus Ullgren <pontus-a-ullgren.com>
#
# Install in your Nautilus scripts directory.
#
# Credits goes to Keith Conger for his super-extractor Nautilus script which I used as
# a template.
#

FILE_TYPE=$(file -b $NAUTILUS_SCRIPT_SELECTED_FILE_PATHS|awk '{ print $1}')
MIME_TYPE=$(file -b $NAUTILUS_SCRIPT_SELECTED_FILE_PATHS)

DEFAULT_DIR="./"`basename $1 .deb`
DPKG_PATH=/usr/bin
TEMP_FILE=`tempfile`
XTERMPRG=/usr/bin/X11/xterm

if [ "$FILE_TYPE" != "Debian" ]; then
zenity --error --title "File error" --text "$1 is not a Debian package.\nIt is reported as: $MIME_TYPE ($FILE_TYPE)" 2>&1
exit -1;
fi

TODO=$(zenity --list --radiolist --column "" --column "Action" TRUE "Extract package" FALSE "Install package" FALSE "Get info" 2>&1)

if [ "$TODO" = "Extract package" ]; then
DIR=$(zenity --title "Extract compressed file to..." --entry --text "Directory to extract to:" --entry-text "$DEFAULT_DIR" --width=500 2>&1)
if [ $DIR ]; then
mkdir $DIR
$DPKG_PATH/dpkg-deb --vextract $NAUTILUS_SCRIPT_SELECTED_FILE_PATHS $DIR/ > $TEMP_FILE
zenity --text-info --title "Extraction Log" --filename $TEMP_FILE --width=500 --height=500 2>&1
rm $TEMP_FILE
else
zenity --error --title "Action canceled" --text "Action canceled by the user." 2>&1
fi
elif [ "$TODO" = "Install package" ]; then
echo "#!/bin/sh" > $TEMP_FILE
echo "/bin/su -c \"$DPKG_PATH/dpkg --install $NAUTILUS_SCRIPT_SELECTED_FILE_PATHS\"" >> $TEMP_FILE
echo "echo Press enter to exit ..." >> $TEMP_FILE
echo "read" >> $TEMP_FILE
$XTERMPRG -T "Installing $1" -e /bin/sh $TEMP_FILE
rm $TEMP_FILE
elif [ "$TODO" = "Get info" ]; then
$DPKG_PATH/dpkg-deb -I $NAUTILUS_SCRIPT_SELECTED_FILE_PATHS > $TEMP_FILE
zenity --text-info --title "Info about $1" --filename $TEMP_FILE --width=500 --height=500 2>&1
rm $TEMP_FILE
fi

############end###########

Now, you have a script installed that will install those .deb packages for you, in a "windows" manner. You right-click on it and choose.....see the pic.

Linux is NOT windows. Nobody ever promised you anything like the BS that MS does. Sure, you can tweak your DE (Gnome) to function in a manner similar to Explorer in Windows. Similar. You can set your machine up to default to a program to act upon files...just like Windows. It's not magic, nor will your Linux install read your mind.

You're a Windows user, you need a little re-training to use Linux. No matter how "similar to Windows" they make the interface, etc...it's still NOT WINDOWS.

Don't mean to sound angry - I'm not. Doesn't matter to me whether you use Linux or not - it's your computer. However, I'll attempt to thwart FUD when I see it.

Good luck.

PS, you may need to set a root password to use this script. If so ( I run Debian, not Hoary.) open your terminal and do the following:

$ sudo passwd

pick a root password.

exit

[jdodson]

hey machiner, are you back? its been a few months.

[Stormy Eyes]

Note the mods attitude: the developers have a right to install whatever on my box and compromise it because they invented the distro. IMHO this is very wrong as is the whole sudo use because it bypasses the intentions of the software developers....

If you don't like the defaults, change them. But don't claim that the developers don't have the right to set the defaults as they deem fit. Money talks; unless you're paying for Ubuntu, you really shouldn't be griping about how they do things.

[compmodder26]

If you don't like the defaults, change them. But don't claim that the developers don't have the right to set the defaults as they deem fit. Money talks; unless you're paying for Ubuntu, you really shouldn't be griping about how they do things.

I agree. The developers didn't make it so you can't change to system to your needs. You can change it however you want to. If you don't like sudo, then don't use it. Create your root password and be done with it. It's not such an issue that you have to go on a rant about it.

[Leif]

Every time anyone mentions this then people respond in answers which would usually have someone warned or banned.. usually 'your an idiot read the FAQ' in fact anyone attacking anyone for criticising the developers decisions seems IMMUNE to forum rules so long as they only personally attack someone who criticises a developer descision.

I am sorry that this has been your experience, but mine has been the exact opposite. Can you please point to the threads where you have been abused and they can be brought to the moderators' attention.

Since there are no rules for criticisng anyone who criticises a developer decisionb then its not easy to keep civil, they can swear call you an idiot or whatever so long as your disagree and if you so much as use fsck back the thread is locked!

The problem is the FAQ is bull. Its full of misleading and incorrect instructions like the wiki.

OK, why are you again slipping into the swearing ? "The problem is the FAQ is wrong". There, is that so difficult ? Who swore at you ? Who called you an idiot ?

Note the mods attitude: the developers have a right to install whatever on my box and compromise it because they invented the distro. IMHO this is very wrong as is the whole sudo use because it bypasses the intentions of the software developers....

Which software developers are you talking about ? You realize that the linux community is fragmented, right ? The software developers at ubuntu chose sudo. They did not come into your house and forcefully install it. You did that. If you don't like it, disabling or changing it is easy. So is using another distro that uses the traditional root model. There is no reason there should not be choice in this matter.

This is clarified to mean only the thread, not the whole forum (as it says) but it is still preventing people using alternate repositories in a way....

That's the intention. Using alternate repositories should be discouraged as far as possible, as it brings complications.

[machiner]

hey machiner, are you back? its been a few months.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=35812

naah.

[poofyhairguy]

Alright Gowater, I'll respond to you and give you what you want because I am the foolish mod.

Every time anyone mentions this then people respond in answers which would usually have someone warned or banned.. usually 'your an idiot read the FAQ' in fact anyone attacking anyone for criticising the developers decisions seems IMMUNE to forum rules so long as they only personally attack someone who criticises a developer descision.

Hey guess what- we are imperfect. Yep, all us mods are. If you see something out of line then tell one of us. We might not do anything, but its better than griping about it.


The problem is the FAQ is bull. Its full of misleading and incorrect instructions like the wiki.

Compared to your perfect faq I presume? I would love to read that. Oh yeah, you've done nothing to help this community. You're here to bitch.

Note the mods attitude: the developers have a right to install whatever on my box and compromise it because they invented the distro. IMHO this is very wrong as is the whole sudo use because it bypasses the intentions of the software developers....

Yep. Thats our attitude. You know why?

1. Its free

2. You can use another OS if you want.

We trust the devs because they give us something great for nothing. If you don't then don't use Ubuntu. Thats what it comes down to. No one forces you to use it.


This is clarified to mean only the thread, not the whole forum (as it says) but it is still preventing people using alternate repositories in a way....

Ok mate. Here is the truth. Its hard to help people. So in order to make it easier for us on some parts of the forum, we ask that they don't use outside repos. They aren't dirty words- I tell people to use them on the green forum all the time. It just that some parts of the forum are designed for people using the OFFICIAL, SUPPORTED repos only for the sake of those helpin out.

If you called Dell, or Redhat and asked them for help (help you paid for, unlike here) and you told them you used something unofficial like certain repos in Ubuntu they would say "Those are your problem, this help case is closed." We are trying to do better than that by telling people beforehand what gets them onto the table. Better for free. Thats the Ubuntu way. Don't like it? Go somewhere else. We won't miss your attitude.

[nuopus]

I can't believe I believed the hype. I went through the hell of switching from Mandrake to Ubuntu just because people told me debian based distros were easier for installing programs. They are NOT! It seems like I have to use the 1980s terminal technique more than ever! At least with .rpm files I could just click them and they would go. I'm so pissed off and tired right now. I'm really getting sick of this. I can't use Windows because it draws in viruses and spyware. I can't use Linux because it makes simple tasks insanely difficult. And I can't use Mac because I don't have the money. Uggg... Oh, and gnome is terrible. If you have to use the terminal for everything, it could at least make files easier to access like KDE does and load up from any directory. I hear everyone talking about 'simplicity'. Simplicity is only good for IT professionals and advanced users! The GUI was invented for a reason. Until the Linux community finds a way to bring users more automation (one click install, icons that make themselves, etc), it will never become as popular as Windows - hence, it will not get the kind of software support it wants.

I guess it all depends on how you were raised with computers. NOTHING about using Windows is "intuitive". The only reason you know how to use it is because of past experiences. The console is not 1980's archaic ... just a different method of control. My kids were taught on a console, and at 10yrs old prefers to use the console more than the GUI.

I started on a console and I HATE using the GUI. Even in Windows I have gvim for editing and use the console to move files around.

It just takes some getting used to ... and probably frustrating for someone that grew up on a GUI point and click environment. Hell ... in Windows I find changing my background with a point and click FRUSTRATING as hell. I wish I could just do echo background=mypic.jpj >> C:\Documents and Settings\Chris\background or something .... that would be MUCH faster that right clicking and doing a bunch of mumbo-jumbo with the stupid mouse.

[poofyhairguy]

=
It just takes some getting used to ... and probably frustrating for someone that grew up on a GUI point and click environment. Hell ... in Windows I find changing my background with a point and click FRUSTRATING as hell. I wish I could just do echo background=mypic.jpj >> C:\Documents and Settings\Chris\background or something .... that would be MUCH faster that right clicking and doing a bunch of mumbo-jumbo with the stupid mouse.

You are a Linux user at heart I guess...

[cinematography]

Fire up synaptic. Look for mpg123.
Fire up synaptic. Look for graveman.
I could only find mpg123 in the description of a program and I couldn't find graveman at all. :(

If you want to double click a *.deb and just installed in your system, you have to do this(for KDE, in GNOME you have to make it a little different).

Right Click a *.deb file.
Open With > Other
Open with: sudo dpkg -i
Check the 3 ticks (Run in terminal , do not close it and remember)
OK

From this point on when you double click a termninal will show up, ask for the admin password and then install the deb file.
Wow. That's a neat little trick. :) Thank you. However, for a soccer mom who might want to consider using Linux, that option should come by default. And no, I'm not a soccer mom. That was just an example. :p

dear cinemetography,

is there anything else you need help with?????


-logan
I've been to the codec guide, I've ran that one script by the admin, and I still can't get mpeg and mp3 to work. I can't find a program to burn CDs. I don't know where Java is installed so I can't run that damn ln -s <JRE installation directory>/plugin/i386/ns7/libjavaplugin_oji.so command. I'm pissed off because I can't open a terminal in my current window like I could in KDE to run these kind of commands; I have to command line my way through stuff. The list goes on. The reason why I was so pissed off yesterday was because I went through A LOT of hell to switch from Mandrake to Ubuntu because I was led to believe that dealing with a Debian based distro would be a lot easier. I'm honestly not seeing many benefits right now. Another learning curve to climb, I guess...

cinemetography: I know how maddening computers get (don't get near me when my wireless network is acting up :P) but you need to chill. May I suggest two very fun games?

Frozen Bubble and TuxRacer

Both are in the repositories (though I forgot which ones, I have the Official, Backports, Debian, Universe, and Multiverse) and quite simple to play :D

sudo apt-get install frozen-bubble tuxracer

And yes, I prefer the commandline for installing debs and apt-get (as well as most system admin stuff)
:D I'll give those games a try. Thanks.

[N'Jal]

I have found that Ubuntu has regular updates, when i was on SuSE i didn't know when i was getting the latest kernel etc. Mandrake to me is just like Redhat samey and nothing new. Ubuntu is the one for me. I was duped into beliveing that anything with KDE would do, i now use Ubuntu (not Kubuntu) and found it easy to use, since my first experience with Redhat i've been using the terminal to install software. I remember it well
rpm -ivh foo.rpm
Not really that different to

sudo dpkg -i foo.deb

SuSE tied me round in circles til i found out how to install things simultaniously. Simply Ubuntu is far easier to use, besides Ubuntu brought me back from the Windows world, i was slipping back into XP for some reason, i think that SuSE and KDE just didn't cut it for me.

[cinematography]

http://www.ubuntulinux.org/wiki/RestrictedFormats

seems a good page for mp3 installing ect...
I know this is going to sound bad, but... another thing that really urks me about Linux are all the manuals you have to read! :( I'm dyslexic and reading is a serious chore for me. In the years of using computers, I can't remember another OS that has asked me to read, research, and study so much. Please, developers, if you're listening... Find graphic designers and artists to help you design an interface that is more self-explanatory .

Thank you for the link, Moobert.

But I have something for you that you could have EASILY found all by yourself.
Not really. Not if you don't know what you're looking for and don't know all the terms.

But thank you very much for the script.

I guess it all depends on how you were raised with computers.
I started using computers back in the 80s. I know all about DOS, BASIC, etc - etc. I was so happy when Mac and Windows brought computers with GUIs. Instead of having to look through a huge book full of command lines, I could just look for a cute little icon on the screen that said what I wanted and give it a double click. For a person who doesn't want to spend too much time on a computer or researching computers, a good GUI can be a very nice thing.

[AgenT]

To all those responding to this thread:

Wow, it has been around 12 hours and already there are two full pages of responses to a worthless and nonconstructive Ubuntu criticism. Why even bother? Yes he is frustrated but his post neither asks for specific help nor is a criticism that one should take seriously. All this user is doing is blowing his top off without knowing what he is talking about. For example, he does not understand that certain things are illegal to package with Ubuntu then he whines about it...

Comming from another very friendly distribution (Gentoo) with a forum as informative as this one, this just looks like the whining "Gentoo sux because it makes me edit config files [or "... makes me compile stuff]" posts on Gentoo's forums. What kind of person actually tries to install Gentoo thinking that it will require no config file editing or compiling? - shesh, that's a major *feature* of Gentoo!

Anyway, my point is this: when Gentoo became very popular, there were a ton of worthless and useless posts like this which, at first, had everyone get all up in arms with huge threads forming trying to educate/help the inconsiderate person. But later such worthless posts as this one began to be either ignored or just locked/deleted. Why not? And yes, cinematography is inconsiderate [troll may also be used after looking up the definition for that word]. News flash cinematography: you did not pay a single penny for Ubuntu nor did anyone ever ask anything in return for trying to help you. No one here asks you to pay them and are volunteering their time while you go off cluelessly attacking a volunteer-based organization (that is, these forum helpers and probably Ubuntu developers) because you, for whatever reason, have a hard time installing this simple to install distribution. Not sure what your problem is, but everything works without much pain if you just read the installation instructions and then the Ubuntu guide (to get all the extras). If you only would have taken a look, you would notice that it is linked everywhere throughout the Ubuntu websites (forums, wiki, etc.). Or heck, if you do have a problem, ask and ask nicely.

Inconsiderate whining done by people like cinematography toward Ubuntu is no different than if someone were to go and blow their top off at a volunteer soup kitchen and whined about how the volunteers do not have his favorite meal and that the volunteers are this and that without actually saying anything constructive nor asking for help.

I cannot speak for anyone else here, but frankly if you, cinematography, are so angry I would suggest you just leave. I doubt anyone would miss you. These fine people that make Ubuntu happen, from the developers, the people that volunteer and write documentation, to those that post answers in the forums, do not deserve to be mistreated and attacked by someone with such inconsiderate behavior.

I am writing this mainly to those that have responded: don't waste your time with people like cinematography. They are not worth it. Why not spend this time helping someone who asked politely about a problem that they have?

And to the mods: you have the privilege on locking, modifying, and deleting posts and threads and do so on occasion. This one by far deserves all three.

[cinematography]

Yes he is frustrated but his post neither asks for specific help nor is a criticism that one should take seriously.
So you don't think making an OS that is more self-explanatory and relies less on manuals wouldn't make it more popular, which could in turn give it more software support? Maybe you don't know what you're talking about.

[CospeFogo]

To all those responding to this thread:

Wow, it has been around 12 hours and already there are two full pages of responses to a worthless and nonconstructive Ubuntu criticism. Why even bother? Yes he is frustrated but his post neither asks for specific help nor is a criticism that one should take seriously. All this user is doing is blowing his top off without knowing what he is talking about. For example, he does not understand that certain things are illegal to package with Ubuntu then he whines about it...

Comming from another very friendly distribution (Gentoo) with a forum as informative as this one, this just looks like the whining "Gentoo sux because it makes me edit config files [or "... makes me compile stuff]" posts on Gentoo's forums. What kind of person actually tries to install Gentoo thinking that it will require no config file editing or compiling? - shesh, that's a major *feature* of Gentoo!

Anyway, my point is this: when Gentoo became very popular, there were a ton of worthless and useless posts like this which, at first, had everyone get all up in arms with huge threads forming trying to educate/help the inconsiderate person. But later such worthless posts as this one began to be either ignored or just locked/deleted. Why not? And yes, cinematography is inconsiderate [troll may also be used after looking up the definition for that word]. News flash cinematography: you did not pay a single penny for Ubuntu nor did anyone ever ask anything in return for trying to help you. No one here asks you to pay them and are volunteering their time while you go off cluelessly attacking a volunteer-based organization (that is, these forum helpers and probably Ubuntu developers) because you, for whatever reason, have a hard time installing this simple to install distribution. Not sure what your problem is, but everything works without much pain if you just read the installation instructions and then the Ubuntu guide (to get all the extras). If you only would have taken a look, you would notice that it is linked everywhere throughout the Ubuntu websites (forums, wiki, etc.). Or heck, if you do have a problem, ask and ask nicely.

Inconsiderate whining done by people like cinematography toward Ubuntu is no different than if someone were to go and blow their top off at a volunteer soup kitchen and whined about how the volunteers do not have his favorite meal and that the volunteers are this and that without actually saying anything constructive nor asking for help.

I cannot speak for anyone else here, but frankly if you, cinematography, are so angry I would suggest you just leave. I doubt anyone would miss you. These fine people that make Ubuntu happen, from the developers, the people that volunteer and write documentation, to those that post answers in the forums, do not deserve to be mistreated and attacked by someone with such inconsiderate behavior.

I am writing this mainly to those that have responded: don't waste your time with people like cinematography. They are not worth it. Why not spend this time helping someone who asked politely about a problem that they have?

And to the mods: you have the privilege on locking, modifying, and deleting posts and threads and do so on occasion. This one by far deserves all three.
Agreed. No matter what problems you have, you can always ask politely.

[compmodder26]

In cinematography's defense, I think he has started being more polite. This thread shouldn't be deleted as he is actually trying to recieve help. Most of the flaming has been directed towards GoWater (and deservingly so I might add).

[cinematography]

Take a moment and put yourself in my shoes. You work two very tedious jobs. When you come home after a long day, you just want to sit down, listen to a little music, and do a few things on the computer. With Windows I had to worry about spyware and viruses. And now with Linux I have to struggle through a bunch of manuals to get basic things to work.

For a free OS, Linux is amazing! However, that does not mean it is perfect, and there is no room for improvement. I've been trying Linux on and off for the last 4 years now. Even though it has improved greatly over the years, I still think it demands too much from it's users. This is just my personal opinion.

[CospeFogo]

Take a moment and put yourself in my shoes. You work two very tedious jobs. When you come home after a long day, you just want to sit down, listen to a little music, and do a few things on the computer. With Windows I had to worry about spyware and viruses. And now with Linux I have to struggle through a bunch of manuals to get basic things to work.

For a free OS, Linux is amazing! However, that does not mean it is perfect, and there is no room for improvement. I've been trying Linux on and off for the last 4 years now. Even though it has improved greatly over the years, I still think it demands too much from it's users. This is just my personal opinion.
OK, but you can still ask nicely.

[cinematography]

OK, but you can still ask nicely.
Yeah that's true. I'm sorry for being such an *** in my initial post.

[aysiu]

Take a moment and put yourself in my shoes. You work two very tedious jobs. When you come home after a long day, you just want to sit down, listen to a little music, and do a few things on the computer. With Windows I had to worry about spyware and viruses. And now with Linux I have to struggle through a bunch of manuals to get basic things to work.

For a free OS, Linux is amazing! However, that does not mean it is perfect, and there is no room for improvement. I've been trying Linux on and off for the last 4 years now. Even though it has improved greatly over the years, I still think it demands too much from it's users. This is just my personal opinion.

I hate to say it, but a lot of people are in your shoes. You have a few options here:

1. Actually save up the money from your two jobs and buy a Mac. I think you'd be very happy with one, even the base model of the Mac Mini. If GUI is your thing, Mac will work well for you.

2. Learn to secure your Windows PC. I did. It's not that difficult--you just have to pay attention. A few suggestions for this: use max security settings in Internet Explorer and block all IE cookies. Use Firefox and do not all websites to install software. Get a firewall with the minimal number of open ports. View emails in plain text, not HTML. Don't open attachments you aren't expecting.

3. Buckle up and learn to love Linux or some other more "difficult" operating system. Have you thought about trying SimplyMEPIS? Ubuntu and MEPIS are the hot things on DistroWatch right now, and I have to say I'm a big MEPIS fan. Ubuntu has better hotplugging (I pop in a CD, it plays; I plug in a USB drive, it shows up on the desktop), but MEPIS has easier (GUI) configuration. You don't have to download a program to get num-lock turned on by default, for example. You can log in as root without having to enable it. You have to have the patience to try different distros and see what works for you.

4. Don't use a computer.

I wish you the best of luck. Realize that everyone's going through what you're going through. Computers are frustrating these days, and nothing is a panacea for technological troubles. You either have to pay money or put time and energy into making the computer do what you want it to. It's a trite cliche, but you can't have your cake and eat it, too. Sorry.

[poofyhairguy]

And to the mods: you have the privilege on locking, modifying, and deleting posts and threads and do so on occasion. This one by far deserves all three.

Hmmm...maybe later. cinematography seems to have turned a new leaf.

Now if Gowator comes back with some flames, I plan to use some mod power (I VERY rarely do).

[poofyhairguy]

I still think it demands too much from it's users. This is just my personal opinion.

My opinion is that anything that is free can't be too demanding.

But thanks for apologizing. Thats why I post first and lock threads later.

[Optimal Aurora]

Take a moment and put yourself in my shoes. You work two very tedious jobs. When you come home after a long day, you just want to sit down, listen to a little music, and do a few things on the computer. With Windows I had to worry about spyware and viruses. And now with Linux I have to struggle through a bunch of manuals to get basic things to work.

For a free OS, Linux is amazing! However, that does not mean it is perfect, and there is no room for improvement. I've been trying Linux on and off for the last 4 years now. Even though it has improved greatly over the years, I still think it demands too much from it's users. This is just my personal opinion.

Okay we all have listened to your rants.

Not listen to me... Not to long ago, back in February 2005 in Maximum PC magazine article called The Linux Diaries. This person took and got rid of windows all together and just used a debian-based linux and for a month used linux in place of all other OS's. He had his own trails and tribulations. No offense to anyone here, but we all have had trails and tribulations to solve in order to get linux to run absolutely perfectly for what we each do with our system. No offense, I like Fedora 3 because its not as buggy as some claim and I was taught fedora 1, but I admit that debian is a little scary for beginners, but still everyone here started some where.

I use Mac OSX and Windows XP and Fedora and Ubuntu so I know what you are talking about and if that is how you feel, then I'll let you in on a little secret... Mac OSX and Windows XP have to worry about security more and more because of people developing hacks that actually in some rare occasions help the operating system. While us that use linux actually constantly keep adding and upgrading and modifying it to the point that it is hard to really compromise a linux system. With that said, it doesn't matter what distro you use. Whether you like rpm and their dependencies or the dirty hands of debian-based distros or just want a system to run perfectly. You are going to have to go through your own trials and tribulations at some point. And like my instructor told me about fedora linux, when you get it running perfectly you can just log on and surf the net or play music you don't have to constantly update or install software or worry about dependencies.

I'll leave you with this thought... How hard was it for Bill Gates or Steve Jobs to develop the first computer OS's and get them implimented? Did they rant on about not being able to do it? No and they still had to make a living trying to get people to buy their products. So you are not the only one that feels this way, but you are the only one that I know that actually expressed it this way.

[cinematography]

1. Actually save up the money from your two jobs and buy a Mac. I think you'd be very happy with one, even the base model of the Mac Mini. If GUI is your thing, Mac will work well for you.
I'm saving up right now. It's going to take awhile though because I always have to spend money on something else. :( Oh well.

2. Learn to secure your Windows PC. I did. It's not that difficult--you just have to pay attention. A few suggestions for this: use max security settings in Internet Explorer and block all IE cookies. Use Firefox and do not all websites to install software. Get a firewall with the minimal number of open ports. View emails in plain text, not HTML. Don't open attachments you aren't expecting.
Dang... And people wonder why I'm trying to use Linux. :lol:

3. Buckle up and learn to love Linux or some other more "difficult" operating system. Have you thought about trying SimplyMEPIS? Ubuntu and MEPIS are the hot things on DistroWatch right now, and I have to say I'm a big MEPIS fan. Ubuntu has better hotplugging (I pop in a CD, it plays; I plug in a USB drive, it shows up on the desktop), but MEPIS has easier (GUI) configuration.
I haven't tried Mepis yet. I should probably consider it though. It's the only one I haven't tried on the top of the DistroWatch list.

You don't have to download a program to get num-lock turned on by default, for example.
WHAAAAA?! That's the kind of stuff I'm talking about. :p

4. Don't use a computer.
Oh... If I had a choice, I would never use a computer.

I wish you the best of luck. Realize that everyone's going through what you're going through. Computers are frustrating these days, and nothing is a panacea for technological troubles.
But it's 2005. :( We're suppose to have flying cars by now. ](*,)


I'm working on a short list of things that gave or are giving me hell, and under each problem I'm writing a simplified tutorial for each based on tutorials that I find. I really don't have much of a choice right now but to just learn this stuff so I can get back to my life, and maybe I could help others in the process. But in the meantime I'm going out to see Star Wars! I need to enjoy this day off while I still can.

[Optimal Aurora]

It doesn't take a real long time to get ubuntu running the way you want. Take your time and document everything, so if someone else has problems like that you can help them out. After all that is the basis that form this forum in the first place.

Later...
Aurora...

[thecrimsonking]

I was a dedicated Mandrake user for 3 years. RPM hell was the #1 reason for me switching to Ubuntu. I didn't know package management could be so easy until I switched to a debian based system. It certainly was not hell switching distros.

Sounds like you just need to go back to Mandrake and your familiar RPM's.
Mandriva LE 2005 is a great distro, give it another try. Just don't do something drastic like switching to Mac or Windows!!

/just my .02

[picpak]

I switched from Mandrake and I find deb's a lot easier than rpm's. A lot of the times the rpm's don't work, and you don't need to remember any rpm sites. Just type in "apt-get install *program*" and it works. :D

However, a GUI to automatically add sources, let you type in the program you want (or have a list to choose from, to prevent typos), and download and install it off the Net would be easier for new users.

[Optimal Aurora]

I have been thinking about what he was basicly saying. I think he may be in the same boat that I was in. Trying to choose which is better and all. I think ubuntu is a great linux distro. But like him, I have lots of manuals on Redhat and Fedora and all.

So if you feel that you can use a manual to fully understand mandrake (excuss me Mandriva) then go right a head and go back to it. However, like poofyhairguy said, "You have a choice." That choice doesn't go away. Like right now, I am using ubuntu, but I am downloading Fedora 4 test 3. Go figure...

[somuchfortheafter]

do not take this as mean but seriously your online, you have enough brains to type by now in your life you should of learned that bitching doesnt get you anywhere. also the command prompt is mainly used so much because its the best solution for everyone, also java isnt supported out of the box dude to legal issues, so not our fault. also mp3 playback works fine for me........ out of the box as well....

[bored2k]

This thread has gotten way out of hand. The topic itself would make certain people angry, and the replies have not been really friendly.