O'Reily Online Programming Courses Any Good?

[Avenue]

Hey Hey Everyone,

I'm wondering if anyone here has any experience with the O'reily online programming courses offered through their website.

Here's why I ask:

In the past year I enrolled in a series of C# courses at a local community college here in Seattle. I found the instructors to be friendly and engaging but when I finally acheived "certification" I didn't feel like I really knew anything more about C#. There weren't any labs, just lectures and some light hands-on exercises. I supplemented the courses by buying books and reading them cover-to-cover and practicing, but I still didn't/don't now feel like i'm harnessing the full power of the language correctly. I had an interview a few months back for an SDET position at a giant software company and the first question was "what is the difference between an interface and an abstract class?"

I was stumped right from the beginning and totally blew it, felt totally stupid as a result.

I need more instruction and I have a burning need to figure this thing out. I'm taking a look at the O'reilly courses because the books have such a good reputation, but i'm reluctant to do so without hearing from folks who've actually taken the courses.

Are there labs? Is there a time to practice what was taught and someone to review/comment/answer questions? Were the courses worth the money? Did you actually LEARN anything?

Thank you!!!

[lnostdal]

I'd spend my time (and money) reading those books cover-to-cover again and doing exercises instead. The books _should_ have mentioned abstract classes and interfaces, and what these are for. Make sure you've got everything covered! :}

Also helping out newbies with questions like the one in your example helps a lot. Especially if you supply the wrong answer then get flamed by someone who knows better; it burns and you, well I (maybe I'm weird) - remember that way better than some friendly teacher. :}

Try USENET (or maybe there are other forums that are more used in regards to C#? I dunno) if there is a lack of C#-questions here; you'll get flamed all the time there while you're still a "n00b". This has worked great for me (well; I spent most of my n00b-time in a retarded Norwegian forum, but got flamed there also).

Also posting some n00bish code from your exercises begging people to flame you also helps. If it's feasible maybe you can ask ppl for suggestions as to other ways to design the program (and reasons; you'll start seeing these when thinking earlier and earlier) instead of "just getting it to work".

[Mirrorball]

I'd spend my time (and money) reading those books cover-to-cover again and doing exercises instead. The books _should_ have mentioned abstract classes and interfaces, and what these are for.
And if the books don't mention abstract classes and interfaces, throw them away and buy new books.

[Grey]

I recently got my B.Sc. in Computer Science. I found that in my first two years, the emphasis was on teaching students the syntax of a few select languages, and proper stylistic techniques. The remaining two years put aside the compiler, and taught us how to design and build the best code possible.

I think that the third and fourth year were the most useful, and ultimately what separates a University from a College.

If you can code something like a linked list (from scratch) in C#, then you are probably a competent enough programmer to do anything. What you need to do now is buy some books on data structures, algorithms, and techniques of your field. Learn how to design your code to be the best it can.

[Avenue]

Thanks!!!

I should probably clarify a few things:

The courses were reletively short and not part of a CS degree program, it was a continuing education program designed for certification (in this case it was their own testing certification that they created). Everything was covered but there weren't any labs in which to practice and no assignments to do at home. I've found that most universities have labs with their courses. As a result, topics were introduced, but not hammered-in.

The books I read did talk about interfaces and other topics, but i'm not sure that I fully understood them very well. After my interview, I went online and went over some stuff and I have a better understading, but i'm still not sure exactly when i'd use them. Kind of like structs...I'm not always sure when I should be using those instead of a regular class.

I just need more instruction or someone to review what i'm doing. The suggestions above are good and i'll try those out. I've only been doing this for about a year now and so maybe i'm pushing it a bit, but I have to start somewhere.

Thanks!!!

[pmasiar]

I did tried O'Reilly course (for Java). I found my particular course not enough challenging and focused too much on programming java applets (I need struts-based web server apps). In couple of days I did all the required reading (I told you it was easy - i knew most of the stuff) and read up most of the tests. O'Reilly has 7-days money back policy so I was able to get my money back, before I even talked to my instructor.

I liked the course: you have your own public web server with URL (directory). If my goal was to learn HTML/CSS and to have portfolio to show off, it might be a very good deal: hosting not too expensive, and presumably they know how to help complete noobs get going.

Ultimately, how many hours of your instructor personal time you can buy for $400-$500 - the price of that course? obviously not much.

I would recommend you to try 7-days intensive immersion, when you have a lot of time to dedicate to it. You can do a lot of reading and figure out if it is worth to stick to it and pay up, or bail out. I hope course will be usefull to you.

Good series of O'Reilly books is "head first" - IMHO you should go for "design patterns". DP is all the rage in statically typed languages like java and C#, you may get questions about DP next time. Head First java might be useful book too - I know it explains the difference you asked. I dont think there is head-first C# book yet, but C# close enough to java.

Another option might be to get book Etudes for Programmers by Charles Wetherell and solve problems from it. *Extremely* good book - shame it was not reprinted since '78. It has descriptions of tasks, with hints how to approach them, and every one can take you 1-3 weeks. harder than your homework exercises, but much simpler than real-life problems. I posted couple of sample problems to solve to http://learnpydia.pbwiki.com/ - you may try solving those, too. Find a C#-related forum and ask for more help there -- or even here, although I am afraid not many C# gurus use Ubuntu. Flames are better than being ignored -- don't get discouraged and keep going.

After that -- or even before that :-) -- find a C# open-source project and join it.

[Wybiral]

I myself am considering the O'Reilly courses too, particularly the C ones... Anyone here taken them that would like to share whether it was worth it or not?