basic questions

[steel_lady]

I bring here some basic issues to see the point of view of advanced Linux users.

Here is my situation:

I am not a programer, I am just the ordinary user who works at the institute where all programs for work are linux based and force me to use linux.

For practical reasons, this forces me to install linux on my laptop also to be able to work at home. As the user, my only interest is that I have the means to get the work done and not to loose time. So when some problem occurs, I need to have the internet connection to seek help from people online or to have somebody that would help me. In some countries you still pay internet by the time you spend online and sometimes you cannot afford it. Also, you can spend a lot of money connecting with hope that somebody responded to your question on linux forums and you don't know if you will get help in 2 hours or 2 weeks or ever. If I have to pay, I prefer to have a phone number where I can get immediate help. I tried already Red Hat and there was a huge compatibility problem with the laptop, so you can not get help if something just can not be done.

A friend says: make yourself an expert, I will not help you any more and you will not depend on me. So, the same way somebody could say: learn how to cook, saw and do carpentry, so you will not have to depend on others to do it for you and you don't have to pay them. But that would mean that I would spend all my time doing those things and not enjoying the rest of the things in life. I think it is not fair. At the end I am between options: to look for somebody whom I have to pay to resolve all my linux issues (which means that linux is not a free OS for me at all) plus I depend on that person's schedule OR leaving my work pending and dedicate (loose) a lot of time to learn tricks and resolve problems myself and not having time to enjoy other things. I am not against people who have Linux as a life passion, just I would like to have a choice and do not have to dedicate myself to informatics if I want to do something else.

My questions are:

1) why someone wouldn't employ people officially to provide guarantized telephone 24h help for ubuntu for users who pay for it

2) do you think it is fair to develop software that is exclusive tool for some very specific work, exclusively for 1 operative system, giving people no choice?

[fuscia]

I am not against people who have Linux as a life passion, just I would like to have a choice and do not have to dedicate myself to informatics if I want to do something else.

the company you work for chose linux. if you worked for any company, you'd have to use whatever they want you to. as long as you work for a company that only uses linux, you have to do the best you can with it. can you not get an internet provider that gives you unlimited time for one fee?

[steel_lady]

the company you work for chose linux. if you worked for any company, you'd have to use whatever they want you to. as long as you work for a company that only uses linux, you have to do the best you can with it. can you not get an internet provider that gives you unlimited time for one fee?

My opinion is that it is not important which system you work on but to get the work done es quickly as possible. If somebody would obligate you to work in windows you would complain, no? In some poor countries going for a one fee internet instead for dial up is still very expensive.

Besides, if you are physicist for example, your professional success should depend on how good physicist are you and not weather you are good in linux or not

[RRS]

If your employer expects you to work from home with your own computer they should be able to provide you with the support you need.

How do they get support for their systems? Is their an internal IT dept. or an outside contractor? Or is the system small enough to be handled by a co-worker more knowlegdable then you?

If the "after hours" work you do is by your own choice rather then any sort of company policy maybe some informal guidence from the IT dept. (or company geek?) may be available. I guess a lot would depend on the structure of your organisation.

As to your specific questions;
1) Canonicil does offer paid support for Ubuntu. I don't now the type, Online only or phone, or the costs. This Site (http://www.ubuntu.com/support/paid/webtolead) has an enquiry form that should be able to get the answers for you.
2) No it's not "fair". That's the main reason you see so much dislike expressed for Microsoft. On the other hand the specific work you do may be so specialised that when the software was created there was no incentive to expand it's usability beyond the needs of the original user.

Though I realise non of this solves your immediate problems, hopefully I've provided some insight to help you arrive at a solution.

[fuscia]

My opinion is that it is not important which system you work on but to get the work done as quickly as possible.

i agree with you, but that has little to do with your situation. your problem is that you have to work with linux and you don't know what you are doing as well as you'd like and you are not thrilled with the available help. the 'world of linux' is not going to change for you, any time soon. the best thing you can do is to figure out a better way to find out what you need to know. how much do you know already? is there a typical problem you run into on a regular basis? is it knowing the software, or is it hardware issues that get you the most, etc.?

[Sef]

1) why someone wouldn't employ people officially to provide guarantized telephone 24h help for ubuntu for users who pay for it

For home users: Ubuntu does have paid support (http://www.ubuntu.com/support/paid). (Only 24 hours for servers and thin clients and cluster support.)


Besides, if you are physicist for example, your professional success should depend on how good physicist are you and not weather you are good in linux or not

Actually it would, since most of them would be using Linux or a Unix derived os as their work operating system

[enopepsoo]

If you are so good at Windows, why not download vmware player and an ubuntu 6.06 appliance and run Ubuntu in Windows? Then you could fall back on your superior windows knowledge.

Running Ubuntu as a virtual machine is pretty well idiot proof if you are used to Linux at all.

[ice60]

you can use xchat (an instant message type program) for getting help quickly :)

http://www.xchat.org/

if you don't already have it already you can install it like this -

sudo aptitude install xchat

then to run it type alt-F2 and type xchat in the popup. then go to Freenode (then click on Connect, then type this -

/join #ubuntuforums

[3rdalbum]

If you are so good at Windows, why not download vmware player and an ubuntu 6.06 appliance and run Ubuntu in Windows? Then you could fall back on your superior windows knowledge.

Running Ubuntu as a virtual machine is pretty well idiot proof if you are used to Linux at all.

Great minds think alike; that's what I was just about to suggest (except that I suggest downloading VMWare Server, so you can make snapshots):

* You get around any hardware compatibility issues
* If you start playing around with stuff that you shouldn't touch, and mess your system up, you can just roll back to an earlier snapshot
* There's absolutely no danger to your existing data (not that there's much danger anyway).

Paid support is available from Canonical (I do believe they offer telephone support).

It's not fair if your company ties you to a particular computing platform, unless there is a VERY good reason for it. That is how a lot of us feel when companies try to tie us to Windows-only programs.

[seijuro]

In many cases companies that require you to use specific software will offer free or pay for you to recieve training on that software maybe you should ask around at work. You may have to give up some of your time to become competent with your comany's software but it's a good idea to do so as you will become more efficient and thus more productive. The key is you don't have to choose one or the other learn or have free time. You can dedicate a small portion of your free time to learning while getting the help you need from others in the mean time. To answer your questions I think it would be fine for someone to hire a tech support staff to offer paid support via phone however I think there is quite a bit of shortage of people who are qualified and want that type of job for every linux distro to have such support. On the second question I really hate companies that force software on their people however they have to do what works for them and this translates to a price most emplyees must pay if they choose to work under a company rather than work for themselves.

[steel_lady]

If your employer expects you to work from home with your own computer they should be able to provide you with the support you need.

My employer does not expect anything. I have to do my thesis and they do not care how much time I will spend to do it. So, all the time I save on technical stuff is left for me. Though, there are a lot of people who are spending in the office 12 hours a day or more because if you find yourself without thesis after 4 years when your contract finishes, you do not have other options.


How do they get support for their systems? Is their an internal IT dept. or an outside contractor? Or is the system small enough to be handled by a co-worker more knowlegdable then you?

At work, we have Red Hat that they have payed support for. Some 30 people are employed by the institute to maintain the system and they do not know anything apart from what they can get from payed RH support. They work only in the morning although investigators are working late so you have to wait for the next day or over the weekend (a lot of people are working over the weekend). You are not allowed and not able to change anything on the system installed there. The system is completely crappy and unstable. If you have special needs for your particular work, most of the times they tell you that they do not support installing for that particular program on their system. That's why a lot of people are getting laptops, using their own computers at work. If you have some problem with your laptop, they tell you that they do not support help for personal laptops. It is possible to get help only from a few people who are fellow investigators and not computer people. And those few people are so overloaded with help petitions from co-workers that they do not have time to do their own work.

[Johnsie]

Your problem seems very simple to me.... Ask your friends at work for help. That is free and you might even learn something. Getting to know any operating system costs money.... If you use windows you will still need to go on for help sometimes, if you already know windows then the chances are that you've already put money into learning Windows. That aside, there are plenty of Linux support groups all over the world that are completely free to join and once you know a few people who use Linux it's very easy to get help for free without having to go online, buy a book or call a professional helpdesk.

You wont get help if you dont ask.... Yes you will need to use your initiative but you can learn Linux for free and Linux is a good skill to learn. Something to add to your CV/Resume.

[steel_lady]

I can not get any more help from people from work, They already did too much and I dont want to feel bad bugging them all the time. I know windows very well, always pirated it and never spent a dime on it. Actually you do not have to learn it, everything can be resolved with enough clicking :) I thank people for pirating it :)

BTW, what happens when those 2 people who are our guru's are on vacation or business trips? They are travelling all the time!

[RRS]

My employer does not expect anything. I have to do my thesis and they do not care how much time I will spend to do it...............not computer people. And those few people are so overloaded with help petitions from co-workers that they do not have time to do their own work.

I see, that makes your problems much easier to understand and a bit harder to solve, but still not impossible.

Aside from searching the forums (you might try the advanced mode in Google in addition to the one here in the forums, maybe better targeting) to save time/money with your ISP when opening a thread about a specific question subscribe to the thread with e-mail notification so you'll know when someone has been able to provide an answer.

Though I'm sure the vast knowledge base available here in the forums can provide the answers you need, your limited time seems to be the main hurdle. The only real suggestion that I can come up with is carefully targeting your inquiries to optimise the use of that time.

For example, the program(s) or appllications you need to use;
>Are there any windows alternatives available?
>Are there any special instructions, etc. needed for installation or use?
>If the application was original developed in/ported to RedHat, perhaps someone in a RedHat specific forum can help.
>Have you tried installing RedHat or it's "free as in beer" version?(I should know the name but ???) If there's minimal hardware compatibility problems with your system it might make it easier to use the programs you need.

Since I understand and agree with your implication that time wasted is an even greater loss then money spent I hope some of my meager suggestions help you get thru your current problems so you can spend your time working and playing instead of just making your computer work.

[maniacmusician]

Canonical does offer paid support for Ubuntu, have you looked into it? sorry if it's repetitive, I haven't read the whole thread.

[steel_lady]

For example, the program(s) or appllications you need to use;
>Are there any windows alternatives available?
>Are there any special instructions, etc. needed for installation or use?
>If the application was original developed in/ported to RedHat, perhaps someone in a RedHat specific forum can help.
>Have you tried installing RedHat or it's "free as in beer" version?(I should know the name but ???) If there's minimal hardware compatibility problems with your system it might make it easier to use the programs you need.


Well, for the main programs for work there are no alternatives available. Programs that we use for work usually do not have installing instructions, installations were not straightforward, so people who installed those for me while I had Red Hat needed me to leave there my computer to play with it and try different things for some time untill getting it right. Usually programs are very old and there are a lot of things that needs to be done by hand. My main problem with RH was that it didn't support mounting external devices like external hard disks aor other USB devices and also modem didn't work nor other additional things.

[steel_lady]

Canonical does offer paid support for Ubuntu, have you looked into it? sorry if it's repetitive, I haven't read the whole thread.

I am just looking at that, when they say support 9X5, which 9 hours are those? I hope it is not my sleeping time :(

[fuscia]

what kind of problems are you having?

[Johnsie]

I think she's just trying to look for reasons to avoid getting help :-)

There is plenty of help available for free if you need it. Try and be more pro-active, you need to make an effort to get anywhere in life :-)

[fuscia]

I think she's just trying to look for reasons to avoid getting help :-)

There is plenty of help available if you need it. Try and be more pro-active :-)

i didn't think anybody played "yes, but..." anymore. could be just too late and frustration is turning to despair.

[petermck]

It really sounds to me like you are suffering from the effects of a poorly implemented IT policy. Have you tried bringing some of these issues (particularly the wasted time) to the attention of the decision makers at your Institute?
I've had experience with similar situations in the private sector, usually with hosted systems where the clauses in the support contract are often designed to limit the amount of support the host provider will have to supply, but sometimes with IT departments who loose site of the end objective which, as you correctly point, out is to get your work done as efficiently as possible via the use of technology. "Business needs drive IT, not the other way round".
I'm sure there will be someone senior in your organization who ultimately holds responsibility for getting things done. Try and find that person. Win them over to your point of view and then what the problems get fixed.

[Johnsie]

Well, I hope she can defeat whatever obstacle is slowing her down. I've had problems in Windows and never been able to find help, even from experienced Windows users. There is no point migrating to any operating system if the company cannot provide the support necessary for that O/S. It doesn't really matter what operating system it is, there always needs to be a good support mechanism for those who are unable to use use the equipment. It seems that this company simply hasn't invested in a good IT support system. You cant really blame the o/s when the company isn't providing IT support.

[petermck]

I thing this is actually a relatively common problem. It sounds like the systems they have don't match the staff skill set and the work requirements. Usually it doesn't get fixed until someone points out what it is costing the organization not to fix both the IT infrastructure and the support infrastructure.

[Johnsie]

Maybe they should sack everyone and hire people with better IT skills (just kidding)

[steel_lady]

It really sounds to me like you are suffering from the effects of a poorly implemented IT policy. Have you tried bringing some of these issues (particularly the wasted time) to the attention of the decision makers at your Institute?
I've had experience with similar situations in the private sector, usually with hosted systems where the clauses in the support contract are often designed to limit the amount of support the host provider will have to supply, but sometimes with IT departments who loose site of the end objective which, as you correctly point, out is to get your work done as efficiently as possible via the use of technology. "Business needs drive IT, not the other way round".
I'm sure there will be someone senior in your organization who ultimately holds responsibility for getting things done. Try and find that person. Win them over to your point of view and then what the problems get fixed.

We tried already to change something but the ulimate problem is that everybody is doing their scientific work for themselves not doing business for some big boss that wants more productivity so if you don't get things done, it is your problem and you have to be happy with what they give to you

[steel_lady]

Maybe they should sack everyone and hire people with better IT skills (just kidding)

Actually, here they have 30 people that are doing the same amount of work that was done by 2 people of my faculty and they did it much better end never refused to help!