Feisty Theme mockups - let's start early..

[mangar]

Hi all!

How about starting to lay down the possible look of feisty fawn,
by suggesting artwork, mockups, and ideas, right here, when feisty is still
alpha, so your ideas will have the longest possible time to mature?

relevant elements on the wiki:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommunityFeistyIdeas/LookAndFeel?highlight=%28feisty%29
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Feisty?highlight=%28feisty%29
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Xubuntu/Artwork/Feisty?highlight=%28feisty%29
www.gnome-look.org
art.gnome.org

[tom56]

I think the theme for Feisty is going to be professionally designed by the same guy who did Dapper. That said it would be great if some really nice polished community artwork could be included by default, or maybe could be started now with default use in feisty+1 in mind. The edgy community artwork wasn't considered to be up to scratch (by sabdfl) - perhaps more time is the solution.

[Albi]

Update: Made a metacity theme: http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=51104&vote=good&tan=18235613

I posted mine on the wiki. Anyways, just a little work I did on what I think the buttons should look like (was done from scratch). I'll also use this thread to include the rest of my ideas since I got some good real estate here :D.

Initial:
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/3876/buttonstyleid5.png
jem7v's suggestions:
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/9513/buttonstyle2rs4.png

plb's suggestions:
Original: http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/3851/buttonconcept3uo5.png
Fixed+Rounded: http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/2912/buttonconcept4lq1.png
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/9127/buttonconcept3ya1.png
Rounded again: http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/5607/buttonconcept5cs7.png

Fixed rounding+Matching titlebar
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/3361/buttonconcept7sr2.png
http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/4184/buttonconcept8dh8.png

Can only show 8 images, so from now on, I'll just show original+latest

[jem7v]

I like the way the buttons look, Albi - nice and plasticy in a color that isn't BLUE like all the glowy plastic buttons seem to be :) - but I don't know how I feel about them hugging the top of the window. That's one of the big visual identifiers for the Vista look right now and with Vista out so soon, it might be nice to have a default look that isn't so similar to Microsoft's latest adventure. It's a petty argument, I know, but oh well. I really like the buttons themselves - I'm just not fond of buttons that look like they're recessed in the top of the window. That said, plenty of people Like the buttons to float at the top, so it's mostly just an aesthetic preference.

Know what would be swell, though? If the rest of the border were a bit shinier to go with the buttons. Not necessarily over-the-top shiny, but shiniER.

[plb]

A couple of suggestions...

Custom mouse cursor. Why are we still using a 6 year old mouse theme. Oh I know, because it is the default cursor in debian and never changed. Cmon guys, why not a spinning ubuntu logo or something

Custom fonts. Likely never to happen but it would be nice.

Wallpaper. I never really liked the past couple of default wallpapers. I wish we could get a little more creative in this aspect. The wallpapers are just so plain. That ubuntu poster is nice...maybe something like this in the Feisty release.

[Albi]

I like the way the buttons look, Albi - nice and plasticy in a color that isn't BLUE like all the glowy plastic buttons seem to be - but I don't know how I feel about them hugging the top of the window. That's one of the big visual identifiers for the Vista look right now and with Vista out so soon, it might be nice to have a default look that isn't so similar to Microsoft's latest adventure. It's a petty argument, I know, but oh well. I really like the buttons themselves - I'm just not fond of buttons that look like they're recessed in the top of the window. That said, plenty of people Like the buttons to float at the top, so it's mostly just an aesthetic preference.

Know what would be swell, though? If the rest of the border were a bit shinier to go with the buttons. Not necessarily over-the-top shiny, but shiniER.

You mean something like this?
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/9513/buttonstyle2rs4.png

[plb]

You mean something like this?
http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/9513/buttonstyle2rs4.png

Keep the colors but make it more like this...

http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=36874

I think it would look better.

[Albi]

Keep the colors but make it more like this...

http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=36874

I think it would look better.
I'll be very open to suggestions since it's just a concept
http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/3851/buttonconcept3uo5.png

Looks kinda vista-y when I make them wide like that though, I have to reduce the shine maybe.

[plb]

I'll be very open to suggestions since it's just a concept
http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/3851/buttonconcept3uo5.png

Looks kinda vista-y when I make them wide like that though, I have to reduce the shine maybe.

Everything looks to wide whereas in candido it's all narrow.

[Albi]

True...
I changed it up a bit then, made it less shinier and the buttons narrower/smaller.
I'm also including a rounded version
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/2912/buttonconcept4lq1.png
http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/9127/buttonconcept3ya1.png

[jem7v]

The latest two are interesting! I Did like how warm and glowy they looked, but these are fine too. A few revised comments!

- Make sure, when you eventually get to the window border, that the highlights are consistent with those on the buttons, because it's so much snazzier that way than when the highlights are different styles on the buttons and the border
- I like the square buttons with the square corners!
- The rounded corners on the outside two buttons is really neat, making them look all like one consistent unit. I like that too, but the corners of the buttons look a bit jagged. Would fixing that be a simple matter of just cleaning up a png or are the button edges being drawn by Metacities? (If I knew more about making metacities themes I'd probably be more help. :))

[Albi]

- Make sure, when you eventually get to the window border, that the highlights are consistent with those on the buttons, because it's so much snazzier that way than when the highlights are different styles on the buttons and the border
- I like the square buttons with the square corners!
- The rounded corners on the outside two buttons is really neat, making them look all like one consistent unit. I like that too, but the corners of the buttons look a bit jagged. Would fixing that be a simple matter of just cleaning up a png or are the button edges being drawn by Metacities? (If I knew more about making metacities themes I'd probably be more help. :))

Hi, thanks for your input! I'm thinking of making this into a Metacity theme once I got the concept down well.

I'm not sure what you mean by making the highlights consistent, but I did what I thought.

As for the rounded corners, it was a bit hard making them non-jagged in the PNG, but it should be no problem in a Metacity theme, everything is done by pixmaps that are co-ordinated by an xml file. Here's where you can find out more:http://developer.gnome.org/doc/tutorials/metacity/metacity-themes.html

But the xml template is a bit tedious to start from scratch, most people just take an existing one.

As for the updated concepts, here they are:
http://img369.imageshack.us/img369/3361/buttonconcept7sr2.png
http://img382.imageshack.us/img382/4184/buttonconcept8dh8.png

[bvc]

I think the theme for Feisty is going to be professionally designed by the same guy who did Dapper.professionally? You are kidding, right?


That said it would be great if some really nice polished community artwork could be included by default, or maybe could be started now with default use in feisty+1 in mind. The edgy community artwork wasn't considered to be up to scratch (by sabdfl) - perhaps more time is the solution.No matter what is done it is not good enough. The few in charge are too unstable and wishy washy. Then some windows,PS self proclaimed pro will be hired and paid to do what no one wants, so now we won't be happy....and around and around it goes....SSD-release

[jem7v]

Yeah, that's pretty much what I meant with the border highlights! They're similar to what's going on in the buttons.

Them new rounded are pretty swank. Actually, rounding off those outside corners might make it work with round corners to the window border... Square buttons for square borders, slightly rounded corners for rounded borders? Might be a nice coordination!

Thanks for that Metacities link. It looks better than the last one I saw... I'll have to give it a good read when I have enough free time! (Too busy teaching and arranging Celtic music right now.)

[Zyphrexi]

what about including a few different new entries instead of just one "default look". I don't think there's anything wrong with making it look like vista. I mean it's nice. If it's nice isn't that good? Granted if we finally get a GTK color chooser (not the package...) for themes, people will be able to set it up however they like, which is what linux is all about. Personally I'm getting so tired of orange I'm using the mist-theme =P

[Albi]

Hey guys, I finally made the metacity theme!
http://gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=51104&vote=good&tan=18235613

Still trying to figure out a few things though, so it's not 100% done.

[Zyphrexi]

what about rounded edges as well? I always liked the smooth look. BTW how did you get the colors right? Everytime I try to do something artistic like that The colors are always off.

[Albi]

what about rounded edges as well? I always liked the smooth look. BTW how did you get the colors right? Everytime I try to do something artistic like that The colors are always off.

Hue+Saturation tool is your friend, and you can fine tune by zooming in and cleaning up the pixels after

Seems like I need to improve mine a bit though, under 60% on GnomeLook still

[Zyphrexi]

arrr, I found a handy tool, gnome-color-chooser. Now if it could only be streamlined for the user we could have one feisty theme to rule them all, and in the color-schemes, bind them.

EDIT: that's not to be confused with color-picker, which is now called Gcolor2. A bad move imho.
I'm attaching the file since I can't remember where I downloaded it from. It's not my creation, and it's in source. If you want i can build a deb.

[JackTheDipper]

arrr, I found a handy tool, gnome-color-chooser. Now if it could only be streamlined for the user we could have one feisty theme to rule them all, and in the color-schemes, bind them.


Hi, Zyphrexi!
I'm the author of gnome-color-chooser. Would be cool if you can tell me which features you're missing. ;-)
btw i guess you downloaded it here: http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=47349

best regards,
JackTheDipper

[Mr_J_]

I like the round buttons on the candido-graphite theme.
They have a slightly smaller turn that the most recent buttons on the proposed theme.

Maybe it's just me, but could make one without that much shine?
It's just so bright.
The white overlay... Try a 1/4 overlay on size and less than 45%, maybe 30 or somethings...
I'm not used to it being that shinny, but I've been away from Ubuntu for a while...

You could try and look and Windows Royale Theme, which has some very nice curves, and light effects on their buttons.
Then look at the Windows Vista Glass theme and avoid it. [-(

I like the Windows Royale Noir Theme and it's buttons.

Not to be stupid; but... Why do we have to keep having borders on the buttons?
Why can't they just be etched on the side of the windows?
Like carvings...
Might be refreshing... It's an idea. Anyway!

[Garyu]

Seriously, you guys are making excellent efforts to improve on a lot of stuff. But where is the creativity?

One thing that strikes me over and over again is that the Linux-community is following in the footsteps of Microsoft and Apple all the time. "Oh, Vista is glossy, we should make some glossy window manager themes as well that looks just the same, and then try to make them even more cool".

Why don't you try to make the future instead? Kreski lines (http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/7899719/) is an excellent icon theme without any kind of gloss. Maybe not the most beautiful example, but in my opinion it is perfectly possible to make things look very good and professional without using effects like "glass". If we really want a new look, then let's make a NEW look that no other OS is using. Be creative, and keep things rather simple so they are easy on the eyes. :)

I would help if I had any artistic skills and better knowledge of Inkscape and the Gimp. But I'm somewhat handicapped in this area.

Changing the main menu into icons instead of text, like in the first example of the first post, would be a very good idea though. Or at least, provide an easy way to put icons there instead of the text.

My idea of a good and professional theme is one without shiny surfaces, but rather with soft transitions and shadows. Blurry clarity. Play with the abcense of light rather than with light.

Try something retro style, like the style used with old pin-ups (http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/46796082/) and those type of colors (though with something else than a girl as focus). Think watercolors. Or fat crayons. Or, look at the old ink styles of the ancient chinese and japanese artists used (http://www.trocadero.com/sparky178/items/274723/item274723store.html).

I'm sure that there are enough talented people in the ubuntu/linux community to set the standards for others (read MS/apple) to follow... ;)

EDIT: oops, I missed MR_J_'s post. Guess we agree a lot. One thing to add also for those of you who deal with window managers: why do windows have to be square? Or, why do the edges have to be straight? I'd like to see an option where I can use for example grape-vines with leaves and stuff as a window border. Of course, they would have to disappear or diminish when the window is maximized, but I hope you get my drift.

[jem7v]

I like what Garyu said about "Let's try to do something Apple and Microsoft aren't doing instead of trying to look like them," and I agree to some degree. It seems like a petty argument ("Let's do something different so we aren't like them"), but a lot of people Are petty about things like that and come up with things like "Huh. The buttons touch the top of the window, like in Vista. Once again, the open-source community rips off a commercial company's ideas..." (not necessarily true, but people tend to be misinformed when it comes to open-source vs closed source.) "Huh. Round, traffic-light colored buttons like in OSX - clearly, Apple must make the superior OS if all these Linux folks just want to be like them."

First impressions are important - most people don't Experience Linux before they SEE it. If it looks like it begs, borrows, and steals GUI eye candy from the latest commercial OSs, they're going to notice. I have nothing (or at least very little) against the OSX or Vista looks, but I don't think the DEFAULT theme should bear any resemblence to them.

[Mr_J_]

I understand the ideology behind your thoughts and even tho it is to praise, it is also very blind.

Ubuntu is supposed to be friendly and; lets face it; people know windows.
To copy windows is a way to serve those new amongst us that are just so used to the windows look, they find it hard to think of any other way.

Garyus idea about what a GUI should look like is truthfully beautifull.
Jem7vs idea about striking a difference when it comes to GUI is a wonderfull thought.

The main problem would be that we would need a team of artistic genius in colaboration with some very skilled design programmers to make that happen.

It's not I don't like the idea, and not that I haven't heard it before...
It is; thought; that it is just not going to happen soon.

This redesign of the GUI would mean a separate GUI altogether; most likely.
Guess we could call it Ubby. :rolleyes:

The idea is valid, just not easily done. Even tho I would like to see it... :D

[Garyu]

Ubuntu is supposed to be friendly and; lets face it; people know windows.
To copy windows is a way to serve those new amongst us that are just so used to the windows look, they find it hard to think of any other way.

I agree with you to some extent: the interface should be recognizable. This is why Kubuntu fills an important function for some - it is more similar in its interface to windows than Gnome is.

When it comes to design, looks, eyecandy and so on though... I really don't think it matters. Old people don't want to learn very much about new things (generally speaking), while young people happily learns to use a new interface if it's "the cool thing to do". But both old and young would find a refreshing look interesting. As long as they easily find their way around the interface, nothing is stopping us from creating exiting looks and feels with themes and window managers.

Most of all, a computer screen don't need to look like MTV to be cool. Apple has had a huge success with Ipod - because it's simple in its design. Beryl and those kind of things are interesting initiatives, but if I installed wobbly windows and fire effects on my fathers computer he would DEMAND that I change back to WindowsXP where he won't get dizzy from using the word processor.

So yes, the interface should be similar to windows/mac when it comes to menus and close/maximize/minimize behaviours and so on. But no, we do not need to follow in their footsteps when it comes to general design issues.

[Mr_J_]

Very true!

We don't need to follow their design everytime .
I guess it's just easier than thinking up something new... :biggrin:

[graabein]

So you want vines along the window borders but not wobbly windows because your father gets dizzy? You're not an easy man to please I bet. :D

I like blended (http://www.gnome-look.org/content/show.php?content=26050) window borders like I said in another thread. I don't know how close this is to other current GUI's but it looks good and professional. It's not especially glossy. Sometimes there can be too much colour.

Regards to XGL & co I agree that some effects should be default bling mode, but maybe not everything as it is today (that is last time I tried). I like a little wobbly effect when I move a window, not too much though, but I do not like wobbly dropdown menus everywhere. Transparency just confuses me but a little shadow is nice if it's not overdone. So it's not at all easy. :D

[tom56]

When Garyu mentioned the pin-ups that got me instantly thinking of this theme by (sorry don't know their name)

http://huw.ugbox.net/UbuntuEvolve/

The GDM theme in particular I like. Giving up glossiness for the soft gradients Garyu talks about. Or is that not the sort of thing you meant?

[Garyu]

When Garyu mentioned the pin-ups that got me instantly thinking of this theme by (sorry don't know their name)
http://huw.ugbox.net/UbuntuEvolve/
The GDM theme in particular I like. Giving up glossiness for the soft gradients Garyu talks about. Or is that not the sort of thing you meant?

Hmm, well, yes, kind of, but not quite. Can't say it's anywhere near what I thought about when I mentioned the pin-ups. But it's a good start at least. But also, this is only images for decoration (wallpaper, gdm). Where are icons, window borders and so on?

The blended theme without any of the 3D-effects (shadow, glow, glass, whatever)... That would be an interesting start to build off of. And brown/orange colors instead of B/W.

[Illuvator]

I think that many things would suggest that something very different from Windows and OSX would be very refreshing. Coming to the current edgy backdrop and the icons - they're not amazingly inventive, but, they are quite different from the XP colour scheme. With beryl things look very 'busy' with wobbly windows and the like, however I have to say the thing I enjoyed was having an OS which looked different. I liked the idea that when someone looked at my pc it interested them because it was different from OSX and XP which they have all seen before. Exploring a new interface, for me, was made more interesting by everything looking fresh and new to my then new experience of linux.

I think the open source community definitely does have things to learn from the work of artists. I really dont want to be generalistic here, and please people dont attack me for this, but I fear a lot of what you see tends to be very plain, and if exciting... almost overstated especially with the main influence for what they all look like tends to be existing OSs (I do know there are others which are refreshingly different out there). Garyu pointed out the kreski lines one, which I thought was brilliant - refreshingly different from current icon schemes, simple and pretty. I liked the way that this one was almost truly different in terms of its simplicity and just the way it looked... different.

At base I fear all icon themes have to have something in common - after all if they didnt you wouldnt have the faintest what something was for and you could spend forever looking for the right one and getting used to it, but looking for novel inspiration is definitely the way to go. So many things are brought from existing OSs - but, things have been taken the other way - look at just how close a clone IE7 is of Firefox - that would probably serve as an example which a big OS took ideas off the open source community. My thought would be one of freedom - break away from what exists - we've already seen it before - make something new which people can be interested by, fascinated by, and that, is definitely a way forward.

Il

[lotacus]

why is it that when creating themes, people are compelled to visualise only the buttons? There is more to theming then the buttons at the top right-side of a window.

[Extrapolation]

Try something retro style, like the style used with old pin-ups (http://www.deviantart.com/deviation/46796082/) and those type of colors (though with something else than a girl as focus). Think watercolors. Or fat crayons. Or, look at the old ink styles of the ancient chinese and japanese artists used (http://www.trocadero.com/sparky178/items/274723/item274723store.html).

Those are all incredible ideas. There's a reason Okami (http://www.capcom.com/okami/) was one of the most award-winning games of last year.

Also, I know this wouldn't be the best idea for the default theme, but if anyone was ever willing to just make a full-out Victorian (http://www.victoriana.com/) or Rococo (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rococo) theme, complete with gold-inlay mouse cursors and cherrywood icons...I've never seen anything remotely like that done in any OS, ever, and it would make my year.

[Garyu]

Those are all incredible ideas. There's a reason Okami (http://www.capcom.com/okami/) was one of the most award-winning games of last year.

Cool. I never even heard of this game. Seems awesome. I hope it will come to Sweden too, not in the shops right now anyway. And I wish they release some more wallpapers and fan art. Ôkami means wolf in japanese btw, and if you're into this kind of thing you would love the anime series where my avatar comes from - Wolf's rain.

http://www.thebbps.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2006/09/wp10_1600.jpg
This is very much what I had in mind when I was writing earlier. Maybe a bit less edgy or a bit more soft, if you get my drift.

EDIT:
If you look at the blue frames on the left of this page (http://www.joomla-cms-demo.de/index.php?template=rhuk_milkyway), you will also understand what I was imagining for window frames (as an example). Now combine that with the style above... Ehm. Did I mention I am somewhat handicapped in the arts and crafts department? Wish I could show you what I mean.

[lizardking]

You should try my OranSoda theme - The Orange Freshness (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/OranSoda). Should be in universe in fiesty.

http://www.illiria.it/img/p_oransoda.gif

To get it add at you sources.list
deb http://daniel.holba.ch/art-builder/publish/ ./

then
sudo aptitude update && sudo aptitude install oransoda-look

:guitar:



Let me know.

[Garyu]

You should try my OranSoda theme - The Orange Freshness (https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Artwork/Incoming/OranSoda). Should be in universe in fiesty.

I tried what you proposed. It said "oransoda-look is broken". It depends gtk2-engines-murrine (>= 0.40.1) but gtk2-engines-murrine has no candidate.

I downloaded the deb from http://malteo.homelinux.net/pool/edgy-malteo/extras/gtk2-engines-murrine_0.41-0ubuntu1_i386.deb
then I did a "dkpg -i" on it. Then the procedure you mentioned would work.

My opinion:
Too pale. Looks like a dead earthworm. The dead earthworm effect is enhanced with the scrollbars being striped. Nice try, but I am not going to use it. As for the background you provided with this... Well, nice try to combine edgy with smooth. But the background isn't really my cup of tea either. And aside from the fact that I think it just looks washed out, it just isn't innovative in any way.

Don't take my criticism too hard though. It's just my opinion. There are lots of people who will love this theme, I am sure of it. And it's always nice to see people making an effort for the community, even if it isn't in accordance to my own taste. :)

[lizardking]

Don't take my criticism too hard though. It's just my opinion. There are lots of people who will love this theme, I am sure of it. And it's always nice to see people making an effort for the community, even if it isn't in accordance to my own taste. :)

Cool, Criticims make me grown up. It doesn't matter. Thank you for your taste and advice.
;)

For the murrine istance, Murrine will be in Universe in feisty so I think that it could work. Add the malteo to you repository btw..


Sincerly,
lk

[malte]

Murrine is finally in feisty (http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/source/murrine)
:)

[winter_mute]

Personally, I am a huge fan of the Murrina Metacity theme. I'd love to have the buttons based somewhat off of that. Less gloss, maybe just a subtle color change in the middle of them. I do like the spacing on what's been proposed already, so perhaps something in between the two? I'm not on my computer at the moment, otherwise I'd make a mockup of what I'm talking about.