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ubuntuman001
December 4th, 2006, 11:09 PM
Just for enlightenment to all users or users-to-be of Nvu (http://nvu.com), I wanted to provide information on its current state, and future plans, to satisfy the curiosity anyone might have.

Googling around, and Wikipedia-ing, I found out the history of Nvu.

Before Nvu, there was the original Mozilla Composer (http://www.mozilla.org/products/mozilla1.x/), which was bundled with the 1.x version of the Mozilla suite.

Then the lead developer of composer, Daniel Glazman (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daniel_Glazman), was hired by Linspire Linux (http://linspire.com/), to help develop the open-source Nvu. The project reached the 1.0 stable version, but after that development stopped, and left a lot to be desired. Nvu was good, but not perfect; many bugs still existed (or exist).

Daniel Glazman confirmed that even he had stopped development of Nvu, but he announced on September 15, 2006 that he intends to develop a successor to Nvu, called Composer 2.0, as a Mozilla project.

Community developers made a fork of Nvu, called KompoZer (http://kompozer.net), as a temporary bug-fix release of the original Nvu, until Composer 2.0 comes out. So basically, Nvu has not stopped, it will continue, but under the name of Composer 2.0

That's about all there is to know about that, for now.

BWF89
December 5th, 2006, 03:07 AM
I always wondered what happened to Nvu. I don't design websites but I always thought it was ashame that an open source program that could rival proprietary web designers like Dreamweaver or FrontPage s stopped being developed.

maniacmusician
December 5th, 2006, 03:11 AM
eh I don't really think it's a rival yet...But i don't like dreamweaver or frontpage, either. the best html/WYSIWYG editor i've used so far is Quanta Plus, but I tend not to use the WYSIWYG part of it very much.

ubuntuman001
December 5th, 2006, 03:15 AM
I always wondered what happened to Nvu. I don't design websites but I always thought it was ashame that an open source program that could rival proprietary web designers like Dreamweaver or FrontPage s stopped being developed.yea, i always thought that too. so i took the liberty to research on this topic, and found the answer.

ubuntuman001
December 5th, 2006, 03:18 AM
eh I don't really think it's a rival yet...precisely why they are continuing development; it's not a perfect program by any means, there are many bugs yet to be solved, but once its Mozilla counterpart is released, then can we make true comparisons with other closed-source programs like DreamWeaver and FrontPage.

maniacmusician
December 5th, 2006, 03:35 AM
of course, I wasn't trying to bash it at all, just talking about its current state. I think it's great that development is continuing, it'll be nice to see more and more competent designing tools on linux.

aysiu
December 5th, 2006, 03:41 AM
I hand-coded HTML in Windows, and I continue to do so in Ubuntu.

The only difference is Ubuntu's default text editor has syntax highlighting.

argie
December 5th, 2006, 04:28 AM
I don't claim to be a great web-designer, but I find it's extremely easy to just type in what you want in Bluefish, Kate or Gedit and then refresh the page in Konqueror/Firefox. I just start apache before getting on that.

ubuntuman001
December 5th, 2006, 05:02 AM
I understand that many people prefer basic html editors, but IMHO I prefer WYSIWYG editors, because they allow you to write a whole bunch of code with a few clicks, and because I'm not that experienced at html to design a great-looking site using something like gedit. But that's just me.

I use kompozer right now as my web editor, and though it has a few bugs, none deter me from updating my site.

Johnsie
December 5th, 2006, 05:09 AM
I use a mixture of both... Sometimes its nice to see things in a visual way. I'm glad nvu is continuing in one form or another. IMO it's the only one that comes close to Frontpage Express. Yes, I did say "Express". I actually prefer Frontpage Express to Frontpage proper. Shame on me for using microsoft products though :-)

DoctorMO
December 5th, 2006, 05:11 AM
I normaly go for html editing as stated because it's easy to do. if konqueror could make their text viewing into a kate + existing tabs + existing window slicing + ftp + html auto refreshing and it would be AMAZING!!! but I don't think they'll do that because they're making a browser/file thingy not an html editor.

Rodneyck
December 5th, 2006, 05:13 AM
I see you edited out the drama that occurred between Daniel Glazman and the guy forking Nvu to Kompozer, a little spat between the two.

Regardless, I am hoping Composer2 will rival the abilities of Dreamweaver, my favorite web builder. I have yet to find a replacement in Linux for it and I need both a dual screen WYSYWIG and code. I edit the design as I go, so the visuals are important.

ubuntuman001
December 5th, 2006, 05:21 AM
For those who don't know already, I would like to mention that Nvu (and Composer and Kompozer) all have a "source" tab at the bottom, which lets you view and edit the html code as-is, in 'real-time'

So basically, you could write a whole program in Nvu just using the source tab, and it does have syntax highlighting.

DoctorMO
December 5th, 2006, 05:39 AM
yes but it's not split screen.

ubuntuman001
December 5th, 2006, 06:06 AM
yes but it's not split screen.good point. but you can go immediately to the wysiwyg tab, and all the changes made to the source code tab, will be displayed in preview mode.

aysiu
December 5th, 2006, 06:56 AM
For those who don't know already, I would like to mention that Nvu (and Composer and Kompozer) all have a "source" tab at the bottom, which lets you view and edit the html code as-is, in 'real-time'

So basically, you could write a whole program in Nvu just using the source tab, and it does have syntax highlighting.
Won't work for .php files, unfortunately.

vayu
December 5th, 2006, 07:01 AM
yes but it's not split screen.

Also unless I missed something (NVU, haven't tried kompozer) it doesn't allow multiple files open to work on and view side by side. I don't understand how people develop any kind of programs/documents without being able to see different pages side by side.

I'd really would like an occasional wysiwyg but with gedit/kate, apache with a browser and ftp enabled file manager I get most of what I need.

maniacmusician
December 5th, 2006, 08:41 AM
Whenever I try to use WYSIWYG editors, I come out with really crappy looking pages...I mean, it's the kind of quality that I could whip up in a couple of minutes using standard, very basic html. also sometimes a wysiwyg editor will come out with some messy looking, unorganized code and that's a pet peeve of mine :rolleyes: So, has anyone created above-average looking pages using a WYSIWYG editor in linux.

Rodneyck
December 5th, 2006, 08:45 AM
Whenever I try to use WYSIWYG editors, I come out with really crappy looking pages...I mean, it's the kind of quality that I could whip up in a couple of minutes using standard, very basic html. also sometimes a wysiwyg editor will come out with some messy looking, unorganized code and that's a pet peeve of mine :rolleyes: So, has anyone created above-average looking pages out of a WYSIWYG editor?

Yes, using Dreamweaver...

http://www.massagepractitioners.com/

http://www.rodneykesler.com/

maniacmusician
December 5th, 2006, 08:48 AM
certified massage therapist, eh? :)

That first one uses flash, so I won't consider it :P but that second site really is nice. good job.

however, seeing as you've answered that question, i'll refine it by saying "has anyone created above-average looking pages using a WYSIWYG editor in linux."

beameup
December 5th, 2006, 09:12 AM
Well I'm glad it's going to continue to be developed. The "average joe" web page builder like me needs a good crutch like that. :p

Thanks for the info.

ubuntuman001
December 5th, 2006, 09:46 PM
Well I'm glad it's going to continue to be developed. The "average joe" web page builder like me needs a good crutch like that. :p

Thanks for the info.no problem. finally, someone who understands who this thread is intended for! ;)

ubuntuman001
December 5th, 2006, 09:46 PM
Also unless I missed something (NVU, haven't tried kompozer) it doesn't allow multiple files open to work on and view side by side. I don't understand how people develop any kind of programs/documents without being able to see different pages side by side.I don't know about that, but it does have tabs, like firefox.

ubuntuman001
December 5th, 2006, 09:48 PM
Whenever I try to use WYSIWYG editors, I come out with really crappy looking pages...I mean, it's the kind of quality that I could whip up in a couple of minutes using standard, very basic html. also sometimes a wysiwyg editor will come out with some messy looking, unorganized code and that's a pet peeve of mine :rolleyes: So, has anyone created above-average looking pages using a WYSIWYG editor in linux.since my html knowledge is very limited, I decided on using a web template and kompozer to build a professional web site for some one I know: http://plaza.ufl.edu/nebreuer

that doesn't look too bad, IMHO.

ubuntuman001
December 8th, 2006, 12:30 AM
There's also another option: you could design your whole website with an app like Nvu, and then you could self-edit the html code in gedit, to make it look cleaner.

actually, I think I'll do that right now :)

FyreBrand
December 8th, 2006, 01:09 AM
There's also another option: you could design your whole website with an app like Nvu, and then you could self-edit the html code in gedit, to make it look cleaner.

actually, I think I'll do that right now :)
It's a lot more work to go through and recode the html than it is to just do it "right" the first time. The chance for introducing errors is a lot greater too. NVU and Composer (Mozilla and SeaMonkey) are great for making home pages for home users. Until they incorporate PHP (and other server scripting languages) tools and support for creating DHTML pages they aren't likely to be used by most people writing an interactive web page. That is where web-development is at. People want database interaction and dynamically driven sites.

luca.b
December 11th, 2006, 12:10 AM
On the subject of WYSIWYG editors, I found all of the "most famous" to be severely lacking when creating layouts using proper XHTML standards (i.e. tableless layouts with CSS). Despite being a nuisance, I found that text editing, for me, is the best way to write HTML.
(Not that I write much HTML these days, but I digress...)

lyceum
December 11th, 2006, 12:19 AM
If FOSS wants to take over the desk top, it needs programs like NVU to keep the untrained masses happy. I am sad that they stopped working on the project, but glad that there might be options in the future. I would have to tell people they have to use Geocities if they can't hack HTML.

ubuntuman001
December 11th, 2006, 02:55 AM
It's a lot more work to go through and recode the html than it is to just do it "right" the first time. The chance for introducing errors is a lot greater too. NVU and Composer (Mozilla and SeaMonkey) are great for making home pages for home users. Until they incorporate PHP (and other server scripting languages) tools and support for creating DHTML pages they aren't likely to be used by most people writing an interactive web page. That is where web-development is at. People want database interaction and dynamically driven sites.yes I understand this, what you say is true; Nvu and its forks/successors are designed for the home users that make simple home pages. I am one of those for example. I have no idea about php and do not require database interaction or anything of the sort. but you can recode html with a text editor, if you feel like it, if you know what you're doing, and if you think that it'll make it cleaner, and hence easier to work with later.

i have found out though, that as soon as you save your html file again in Nvu, it just recodes it back the way it was, so recoding it again is kinda stupid :-k

ubuntuman001
December 11th, 2006, 02:56 AM
If FOSS wants to take over the desk top, it needs programs like NVU to keep the untrained masses happy. I am sad that they stopped working on the project, but glad that there might be options in the future. I would have to tell people they have to use Geocities if they can't hack HTML.agreed.

FyreBrand
December 11th, 2006, 07:50 PM
yes I understand this, what you say is true; Nvu and its forks/successors are designed for the home users that make simple home pages. I am one of those for example. I have no idea about php and do not require database interaction or anything of the sort. but you can recode html with a text editor, if you feel like it, if you know what you're doing, and if you think that it'll make it cleaner, and hence easier to work with later.

i have found out though, that as soon as you save your html file again in Nvu, it just recodes it back the way it was, so recoding it again is kinda stupid :-kI think there is an option in the preferences that allows you to have it "correct" the html or leave it alone.


If FOSS wants to take over the desk top, it needs programs like NVU to keep the untrained masses happy. I am sad that they stopped working on the project, but glad that there might be options in the future. I would have to tell people they have to use Geocities if they can't hack HTML.I agree the home user should have an easy tool available to them. Many ISP's provide these tools in web format for the home user. I think the Seamonkey project will be a great tool for this as well.