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etomic13
November 6th, 2006, 12:51 AM
Me and a friend have been working on a project based off of ubuntu. It is created to help people switch from windows to linux. It includes importing all of there familiar applications through wine and a simple installer that anyone can use. The beta is scheduled to come out November 30th. If you are interested try the website at www.xpresslinux.com. (btw if you dont like the look of windows im also working on project m, which is an interface that is like OSX). With this project based on Ubuntu we hope to bring Linux to the main stream.

jd65pl
November 6th, 2006, 12:56 AM
Not sure what the corporation would say to your use of the windows symbol!

etomic13
November 6th, 2006, 01:00 AM
lol yes we are working on copy right issues on the logo currently (well mike is) and we succesfully made our first live cd for xpress linux, And i compiled an iso for project M

Dual Cortex
November 6th, 2006, 01:01 AM
Not sure what the corporation would say to your use of the windows symbol!

I was about to say that!

Hemmer
November 6th, 2006, 01:03 AM
Cool! what mac theme (if any) are you using?

etomic13
November 6th, 2006, 01:04 AM
just to give people a better idea of what xpress linux is about, ill quote a post from the site, The Xpress Linux project was set forth on October 26, 2006. The Idea was simple, give Windows users a Linux Distribution that is very easy to install, is flexible and advanced at the same time, and it needs to have a Windows style layout. The idea harvested its self into a big process that started with using the reliable and secure Ubuntu Distribution and breaking it apart and building on it to make it even more simple. What we ended up with was a secure, reliable, and simple distrubution. Not only did we want it to be simple we wanted Xpress Linux to be elegant so we added nice boot progress load load bars at start up (Think OSX), A login that is unique and fresh but also one that a Windows user would feel right at home in. We decided to use KDE and made a whole suite of themes, sounds, icons, Window Glowing ect.., that is somewhat reminiscences of Windows but cleaner. One very impressive feature that will be in the final version is a Wine Automater, so when you install XpressLinux you have the option right then and there to check off the Windows applications you want to be imported into wine. Now we dont want advanced users to think where all about Windows, in the final version there will multiple flavors, during the install process you can choose to make your dekstop look like Windows XP, or other custom Flavors we are developing.

well I started with this bundle for the theme http://www.gnome-look.org/content/sh...?content=28686, and found icons and such myself, and edited the apple logo myself, and moved the maximize,minimize, and close buttons myself

We are very excited to produce this project and possibly bring Linux to the main stream.

etomic13
November 6th, 2006, 01:07 AM
:-#

Dual Cortex
November 6th, 2006, 01:07 AM
Umm... double post...

:confused: :confused:

mike3k
November 6th, 2006, 01:42 AM
I'm also working on the project. Ironically, I'm the Mac person and I'm doing the Windows theme. Etomic came from the Windows side and he's doing the Mac theme. Of course the goal is to help people switch away from Windows.

My first idea for a logo was Tux taking a whiz on the Windows logo :)

jd65pl
November 6th, 2006, 01:47 AM
My first idea for a logo was Tux taking a whiz on the Windows logo :)

May also land someone in hot water! Why not go with some kind of graphic involving "x"?

unlokia
November 6th, 2006, 02:37 AM
You have got to be democratic and remain open minded when creating such a project. To make a logo which involves derogatory offensive symbolism such as tux p*ssing on the WIN logo, is both offensive (to some) and doesn't make your distro appear very professional, IMHO. Imagine Suse or Ubuntu did that!:o :o

Why do you want to almost *copy* MAC OS or WIN layout??? :confused: I think it would be way better for both the user AND the image of Linux as a whole, to break all ties with such things, as they are indicative that we intend to *BE* another slant on established CLOSED source OS's.

Keep the buttons and the menus in a place where the new user can find them easily, in relation to what they are used to, but for goodness SAKE, *copying* themes and emblems???... give it a break!!.

Your site looks good, and I think you may well get this project up and running well enough to hopefully convert some more drones from closed source, but copying ideas and themes etc is just stupid and pointless. Originality is the attraction of any new OS, along with SOME familiarity of function and form, seen and used previously.

Have you seen ELIVECD? get some ideas from them!

I agree with the aforementioned comments - you are using LOTS of Microsoft AND MAC logos and images - I would do yourself a gigantic favour and either edit your website post-haste, or take it offline until the amendments have been put in place, so that you don't risk both being taken to court AND making Linux look like it is another version of WIN!. It is like Linus Torvalds says about Gnome (but in his context I don't ENTIRELY agree - I like Gnome!) he says that it is too simplistic and patronising for people to look at Gnome and be spoonfed all their solutions. The idea of Linux is that it requires some concerted effort and work to be able to both get used to using it, but not so much as the user panics and removes it and then reinstalls their OLD OS.

Win is Win, MAC is MAC, Linux is LINUX... do we WANT to be a clone of a broken OS, and inherit the reputations at the same time?... I think NOT!. If they wanna use Linux, then the community of n00bs is gonna have to learn it, the same way they had to learn Windows when they had never seen a PC before. I agree that what people need is intuitive tools and layouts/programs to speed up the learning process, but imitation is just NOT the way to do it. M$ have a terrible way of laying out their OS, PLEASE don't make the fatal mistake of REPLICATING IT, or you are just going to be teaching people what they ALREADY know, but with a Linux backend... pointless!!!!

etomic13
November 6th, 2006, 02:49 AM
True alot of things are the same thing,by default we want anyone coming from windows to be ready to get work done in a familiar enviornment. Also some other setups will be included (which Im working on now)

unlokia
November 6th, 2006, 02:58 AM
Dude, when I first used KDE, it was none too familiar, but then it was hardly ROCKET science to figure out what goes where, after a few months. People are spoonfed in our Nanny State culture as it is - everything is expected to be instant, working... AUTOMATIC!!!](*,)

Cavemen wouldn't eat if they hadn't made their spears.... People who are too lazy to cook, buy frozen TV dinners pre-packed... everyone wants EVERYTHING handed to them on a plate with ZERO effort involved.

Lazy people without the will to learn or make an effort, will never progress the way they COULD, if they are patronised and spoonfed mate... let people LEARN a new process, not necessarily making it diffucult for them, but innovation is they key you are looking for, to unlock your new OS, **NOT** imitation!

LMP900
November 6th, 2006, 02:58 AM
While it is important that a new user is comfortable with the environment, I think that imitating Windows is the wrong way to go about it. Let's use Apple as an example: They're not making their operating system look like Windows in order to draw Windows users. Instead, they provided an even better interface.

I'm not against implementing aspects of Windows, such as the Start Menu and Control Panel (I actually have USP and Control Center installed), but to copy logos, color schemes, and icons will not do much good.

I believe you should implement some sort of "Start Menu" and the general look of Windows, but make it even better. Use better looking icons and a more attractive color scheme. If you try to make it look like Windows, it just feels "cheap."

Making Linux look like Windows is like using a Ford Taurus chassis with a Ferrari V12 ;)

This is only my opinion, and you are free to disagree with me :)

jd65pl
November 6th, 2006, 02:59 AM
It may be a good concept for introducing those with alot of windows experience and at the same time those who are new to computing who have only used windows.


Note I'm not an advocate of any operating system and don't think a specific OS should be preached, I'm a fan of the view that a best operating system for the situation should be used. However linux works for me and I enjoy the experience!

unlokia
November 6th, 2006, 03:03 AM
I believe you should implement some sort of "Start Menu" and the general look of Windows,
but make it even better. Use better looking icons and a more attractive color scheme.
If you try to make it look like Windows, it just feels "cheap."

:D Irony is a funny thing - the look of WIN is the *ONLY* cheap attribute!

I think the ONLY similarity to win should be the relative position of said "START" button, and I would advise against "START"!. The MAC OS gui is FAR superior to Win, and yet the Linux GUI is FARRR superior to THAT!. Break away for goodness sake - let people explore new worlds and better ways of doing things. If your potential audience "can't be bothered" then they deserve to be stuck with the rubbish that they have been brainwashed with, all along - a TOY os!!

etomic13
November 6th, 2006, 03:07 AM
okay using some of the icons and such where a little over board. But if your grandma has been running XP for awhile and decides she wants Linux, She will recoignize the big start button to get all of her applications, she will recoignize the login theme because its "similar" to windows, and when Grandma is comfortable with it she clicks a few buttons, and boom now she has a new theme to mess with, We are trying to give relative computer illiterate people an easy way to switch to an operating system that resembles what there used to, then when they decide they want something new they change the theme, the OS grows with them, we are merely providing a base level.

and in response they will be exploring new worlds, at there own pace

unlokia
November 6th, 2006, 03:10 AM
You *DON'T* need to patronise people to that degree!. If I see two cats, I know they are not both the SAME cat, but I can still work out they are CATS!. If you called the button "chocolate" and put it in the same position, I am pretty sure even the stupidest person could figure out what it's function was!.

Oh, and just because people get old, don't assume they are stupid - THAT would be stupidity in itself. If they were THAT scared of computers, they would not have even turned the PC on.

No offence to you my friend - I am in no way trying to dampen your enthusiasm for a great idea, but Linspire have ALREADY done what you are doing, but if you think you can make a better job of it, then that is fantastic. I disagree with Linspires ethics and whole system in the same way that I disagree with your idea of "START" buttons, in the same way Linspire crafted their "WINCLONE". If someone buys a new car, things are in different places and are often controlled very differently, but people ADAPT!.

LMP900
November 6th, 2006, 03:14 AM
okay using some of the icons and such where a little over board. But if your grandma has been running XP for awhile and decides she wants Linux, She will recoignize the big start button to get all of her applications, she will recoignize the login theme because its "similar" to windows, and when Grandma is comfortable with it she clicks a few buttons, and boom now she has a new theme to mess with, We are trying to give relative computer illiterate people an easy way to switch to an operating system that resembles what there used to, then when they decide they want something new they change the theme, the OS grows with them, we are merely providing a base level.

Yes, I understand the purpose of the project. But it doesn't have to look exactly like Windows.

It's not going to confuse my grandmother if her new Linux-based OS isn't Fischer-Price blue! How about an attractive neutral color? OS X makes good use of grays and blues. There's no need to imitate Windows to the last detail.

Do you want to see imitation done (almost) right? Check out some ReactOS screenshots: http://www.reactos.org/en/screenshots.html

etomic13
November 6th, 2006, 03:15 AM
Im not calling anything wrong but its funny that anything seen by the mere eye is simply opinion, so while you want a complete change of setup when you move to another OS (I did too) MY mom or dad might not want something too drastically different, say a bussiness wants linux but doesnt want to mess with teaching people a whole new interface, the people will learn where things are at there own pace. (also from the installer people will be able to have different setups as there default)
True more things are windows esssc than they should be but it is in pre-alpha (so what do you think should stay or go)

unlokia
November 6th, 2006, 03:20 AM
Yes, I understand the purpose of the project. But it doesn't have to look exactly like Windows.

It's not going to confuse my grandmother if her new Linux-based OS isn't Fischer-Price blue! How about an attractive neutral color? OS X makes good use of grays and blues. There's no need to imitate Windows to the last detail.

Do you want to see imitation done (almost) right? Check out some ReactOS screenshots: http://www.reactos.org/en/screenshots.html

Talk about self-contradiction!. That OS is UGLYYY!!

jd65pl
November 6th, 2006, 03:21 AM
Talk about self-contradiction!. That OS is UGLYYY!!

Agreed! It is very 1990's!

unlokia
November 6th, 2006, 03:25 AM
@etomic13 - If you want my input... I am by NO means trying to tear you to shreds OR shoot all your hard work down in flames, but this type of project has EVIDENTLY been done before, whether or not it was a success. In my *personal* opinion, and it is ONLY *MY* opinion, I would leave this whole clone idea behind, and move to a new project.

I have racked my brains about this whole concept, as I did when I first tried XANDROS and LINSPIRE, and it seems futile to clone something that has been done by a big PLC (Linspire) before.

Linux is Linux.. PERIOD!

LMP900
November 6th, 2006, 03:26 AM
Agreed! It is very 1990's!

Pfft! Better than Fischer-Price blue...

Anyways, I didn't say it was "beautiful," but it's neutral and gets the job done. I personally like the Windows classic theme. It's been a while since I've used Windows, but I always change it to classic when I do. At least it doesn't look cheap like most of the themes out there.

unlokia
November 6th, 2006, 03:28 AM
At least it doesn't look cheap like most of the themes out there.

Yeah you got THAT right - it looks clunky and DULL, lifeless and designed with the intent of ONLY serving a purpose, and being an absolutely drab experience to use.

Give it up.

I find MUCH more appeal in the functional and POWERFUL simplicity of KONSOLE, than using some clunky outdated GREY :???: menu system, day after day. Command line is THE tool of Linux - no pretences and no resource hogging. It does it's job and doesn't make you wanna cry when you look at it. Lean, mean fighting machine!

etomic13
November 6th, 2006, 03:30 AM
where more into the transition bussiness not neccesarily cloning bussiness,if an easier transition means making linux feel like Windows then so be it, but no means do we want them to keep the defualt theme for long, we want them to be greeted by something familiar, and also we are including importing of all there apps, and a very easy install system (i think thats fairly revolutionary)

jd65pl
November 6th, 2006, 03:32 AM
Pfft! Better than Fischer-Price blue...

Anyways, I didn't say it was "beautiful," but it's neutral and gets the job done. I personally like the Windows classic theme. It's been a while since I've used Windows, but I always change it to classic when I do. At least it doesn't look cheap like most of the themes out there.

Fair enough if you think that it is "attractive"! I think that the majority of computer users out there are happy with what they have pre-installed as it works and there is no reason for them to changed, if you want the masses to use linux then talk to manufacturers who will get it installed, then perhaps people will accept linux as the norm. However companies are there to make profit and entertain shareholders not distribute linux!

unlokia
November 6th, 2006, 03:34 AM
etomic13... I hope your coding has less bugs than your spelling! ;)

LMP900
November 6th, 2006, 03:36 AM
Yeah you got THAT right - it looks clunky and DULL, lifeless and designed with the intent of ONLY serving a purpose, and being an absolutely drab experience to use.

Give it up.

I think you're missing my point entirely, but as you say, I'll "give it up" since the purpose of this thread is to help the thread-starter with the project.

I'll conclude with:

Windows classic theme = Toyota Camry... Boring, dull, neutral, reliable, get you from point A to point B and does nothing else.

Other themes = A riced-out Toyota Camry... The user thinks it looks good, but in reality, it's still a Camry, but uglier.

Edit: jd65pl

You're also missing my point. I'm not against most of the standard themes that come with Linux distros. I personally love Ubuntu's brown and orange. What I am against are distros that imitate Windows by using lame themes. ReactOS went about it the right way by choosing a neutral classic theme.

etomic13
November 6th, 2006, 03:37 AM
lol new keyboard, tired, yea :-#

unlokia
November 6th, 2006, 03:38 AM
but no means do we want them to keep the defualt theme for long

I haven't seen many WIN users who can be bothered to change their default theme, because they are either too stupid or too lazy to find out how to do so!. Give them something ugly, and they will more likely leave it there for the life of the PC.

<<EDIT>> Mind you, there is HARDLY a lot of choice with WIN :D

On the OTHER hand, Linux has a LOT more vibrancy and appeal - just let them learn how to customise the install, and don't 'hand-hold' them - if people have to learn, they WILL do!

LMP900
November 6th, 2006, 03:42 AM
Give them something ugly, and they will more likely leave it there for the life of the PC.

Thank you!

etomic13
November 6th, 2006, 03:44 AM
thank you, for broadening my perspective of things, I have decided to change the defualt theme and use nicer looking icons, and different logos, thank you all very much.

LMP900
November 6th, 2006, 03:46 AM
Good luck with xpresslinux. I hope all goes well. :)

etomic13
November 6th, 2006, 03:47 AM
thank you, check the site often as we update it regularly

unlokia
November 6th, 2006, 03:49 AM
I am an open-source, open-minded person! :D

If I wanted to give a windoze-ite a distro to prise them away from Windoze, i would hand them Edgy Eft LiveCD - and I am not saying this to gain agreement - let's remember WHY I am a member here - because UBUNTU is SO easy to use and install AND to learn!.

I am very sorry to make myself sound more critical than maybe you wish to hear, but UBUNTU and a lot of other distros have made Linux a snap to learn, configure AND install.

I have to say that I can see NO purpose for your project at all - I respect you a great deal as a person dude... I wouldn't know WHERE to start on a project like yours. I would SERIOUSLY consider all the time and energy you are pumping into this thing... can you REALLY say it is viable?.

Boyyy a I gonna look stupid if you buy out Linspire next week :-#

SunnyRabbiera
November 6th, 2006, 03:50 AM
I dunno, I think you should try your own hand at making your own look for your distro.
That way you can evade copyright issues and angry anti MS folk.

etomic13
November 6th, 2006, 03:52 AM
LOL doubting the linspire part, but we have changed direction on the project now we are seeking it to be a user friendly version of ubuntu that is more geared toward people that already have windows installed (among many other reasons that seperates our project) but I thank everyone for there input. (its the community that shapes linux, not the developers)

SunnyRabbiera
November 6th, 2006, 03:55 AM
Well I do wish you good luck on it, establishing a new linux distro is pretty hard to do.

unlokia
November 6th, 2006, 03:57 AM
:-k If ubuntu were ANY more easy to use, it would be silly!. Automatic config of 3D effects via GUI is a much needed tool, but apart from that, Ubuntu caters very much for the people you are trying to appeal to, AND their advertising/marketing/support effort is perfectly co-ordinated and well funded.

All I am going to say, in conclusion, is I wish you the very best in whatever path you choose to take - I am not God and I cannot forsee your destiny, but you are evidently a very clever person, and I hope that you succeed in your projects and goals - you deserve to be successful! :D

PS: word of polite advice - take heed on the matter of taking your site offline temporarily - it would be awful were you to be taken to court dude!

etomic13
November 6th, 2006, 04:01 AM
Thank you very much :)

unlokia
November 6th, 2006, 04:02 AM
It is a pleasure - you are a very nice guy, just take note of the copyright infringement potential, and edit accordingly!:D.

Right, I'm off to watch http://www.crankygeeks.com

have you seen it yet?? it is GREAT!!

jd65pl
November 6th, 2006, 04:04 AM
Just for info how many of you guys are working on this project?

mike3k
November 6th, 2006, 04:07 AM
I think you're missing my point entirely, but as you say, I'll "give it up" since the purpose of this thread is to help the thread-starter with the project.

I'll conclude with:

Windows classic theme = Toyota Camry... Boring, dull, neutral, reliable, get you from point A to point B and does nothing else.

Other themes = A riced-out Toyota Camry... The user thinks it looks good, but in reality, it's still a Camry, but uglier.

Edit: jd65pl

You're also missing my point. I'm not against most of the standard themes that come with Linux distros. I personally love Ubuntu's brown and orange. What I am against are distros that imitate Windows by using lame themes. ReactOS went about it the right way by choosing a neutral classic theme.

The important thing is that Windows users will feel comfortable switching. Even if it doesn't look exactly like Windows, everything should feel familiar.

As a Mac user, whenever I use Windows I always instinctively go to the wrong place for the close box, and I know Windows users do the same when they use a Mac. That's exactly what we want to avoid.

BTW, I wasn't seriously considering having Tux deface the Windows logo, but I thought it would make a cute & funny logo :)

etomic13
November 6th, 2006, 04:07 AM
currently? 3

IYY
November 6th, 2006, 04:10 AM
Why not use XPDE? http://www.xpde.com/

unlokia
November 6th, 2006, 04:14 AM
Had William had the foresight to leave open his source, we could have added better ingredients, and maybe now it would taste much better!.;)

etomic13
November 6th, 2006, 04:14 AM
I think it resembles windows more than id like but will definantly consider it.

unlokia
November 6th, 2006, 04:15 AM
Windows is the software equivalent of in-breeding! LOL!

LMP900
November 6th, 2006, 04:16 AM
The important thing is that Windows users will feel comfortable switching. Even if it doesn't look exactly like Windows, everything should feel familiar.

As a Mac user, whenever I use Windows I always instinctively go to the wrong place for the close box, and I know Windows users do the same when they use a Mac. That's exactly what we want to avoid.

BTW, I wasn't seriously considering having Tux deface the Windows logo, but I thought it would make a cute & funny logo :)

Sorry, I wasnt' very clear earlier, but that's the point I'm trying to make. Make it familiar but don't make it look exactly like Windows. (e.g. Use different icons, colors, etc.)

A couple members missed my point earlier when I posted a link to ReactOS. I wasn't necessarily saying that they did a good job because they used the Windows classic theme, but they made it feel familiar with a "Start" menu and the general layout of Windows that users are used to.

unlokia
November 6th, 2006, 04:20 AM
Think of Microsoft as a village... and open-source as the rest of the planet!

etomic13
November 6th, 2006, 04:21 AM
LOL Raid and Destroy the MVillage, BTW Tuesday I will make a big long post, of our new vision on the site, Check it out i think it will please you

unlokia
November 6th, 2006, 04:23 AM
No need. The genetic mutations will cause their own destruction, eventually. Time is ticking.....

etomic13
November 6th, 2006, 04:25 AM
BTW Tuesday I will make a big long post, of our new vision on the site, Check it out i think it will please you