PDA

View Full Version : Hardware & Laptop Forum overcrowded



cipher_nemo
October 30th, 2006, 12:15 AM
Is it possible to break down the hardware forum into more specific categories? For example: system, video, audio, input devices, peripherals, etc.

I recently made a post there to ask for ideas and/or help with my ubuntu problem. Not a single reply (yet). This was a day ago or so, but posts get added very quickly to that forum.

Therefore, more specific or obscure problems that might have only a handful of community members who could help, simply don't seem to get addressed. At least not yet. But since my post is pages back now (IOW: I can't find it there and gave up looking, although it exists by searching), so it will probably fade away into the void.

It just seems way too crowded. Thanks for listening. :)

Edit: It is only 16 hours old, and it is already on page 6 of the hardware & laptop forum (my ATI problem thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=287653)) Too much traffic!

jd65pl
October 30th, 2006, 12:28 AM
May be PM one of the moderators? They could probably give a good answer to your question.

The forums are very active and I believe that is the reason they are so good, your could try bumping your problem every so often to try and get a response but if no-one is replying to it very quickly it is very likely that your problem is not easy to fix or no-one in the forum at that time is able to resolve it.

Ionix
October 30th, 2006, 02:20 AM
Ha... another high posting forum... Is this server able to cope? Cause I realise it's getting more and more laggy.

PriceChild
October 30th, 2006, 06:47 PM
The forums are very active and I believe that is the reason they are so good, your could try bumping your problem every so often to try and get a response but if no-one is replying to it very quickly it is very likely that your problem is not easy to fix or no-one in the forum at that time is able to resolve it.Hit the nail on the head there.

We don't want you cross-posting at the same time in many different subforums.

However, try bumping your post up at different times of the day, you might get someone online at 10pm who can fix it when no-one at 6pm can.

Then again... maybe no-one has any idea.

Remember that the forums aren't the be all and end all of support for ubuntu. - there are irc channels on irc.freenode.net which i strongly reccomend, as well as mailing lists.

Pricey

cipher_nemo
November 3rd, 2006, 02:30 AM
Thanks for the reply, PriceChild. I appreciate your suggestions and input, but I'd like to further explain this from my perspective.


We don't want you cross-posting at the same time in many different subforums.If the 'subforums' are organized properly, through some serious thought and planning, this wouldn't be a problem. For example, no one should post about their video card problem in an audio hardware subforum. If they do, nothing is stopping them from posting about troubleshooting issues in the forum feedback area. :P


However, try bumping your post up at different times of the day, you might get someone online at 10pm who can fix it when no-one at 6pm can.This causes more posts and more traffic than a well laid-out forum and subform structure. If one user posts in a single subforum, it equates to less traffic and posts than required to bump threads until they're noticed.

Plus, it's simply a pain to worry about bumping threads (for me). I'd rather post questions and answers, then watch for new posts through the subscribed threads feature. Considering the 20-something other forums in which I visit and participate, I'm not really going to spend much time on one that is a pain (ie: more traffic than its current organization should be handling).


Remember that the forums aren't the be all and end all of support for ubuntu. - there are irc channels on irc.freenode.net which i strongly reccomend, as well as mailing lists.Forums should be capable of a fire-and-forget-like use. A user should be able to make posts and them track them without crawling through the forums again and again. #ubuntu on freenode isn't a viable option for those with obscure or very specific problems that may not be answered for days -- that's the job of a forum, and ubuntu forum is currently incapable of doing this job elegantly.

I'm not someone who would read every single subforum within a forum. I want to watch only those threads that I have an interest in, where I'm useful to others, or where I need some help. So far, I haven't visited ubuntu forums much because of its layout and this problem.

If you don't want to help address my concern of help push this along, that's fine. Remember, though, that I'm still one of this forum's users, and this is the problem I face. I wonder how many others face the same problem and do not spend the time voicing their opinion about it?

Thanks for reading.

PriceChild
November 3rd, 2006, 11:58 AM
I'm just wondering if you realise how much traffic we get here?

We constantly have at least 2 THOUSAND users online... granted normally only a 1/4 of those are registered and able to post... but still!

More subforums would:

Hamper a new users ability to locate the correct subforum for his post. OR the location of posts containing his problem & solution.
Mean more work for the staff team to move posts into the correct forum.I would say that each post on this forum is read by at least a couple of the staff team. More subforums would mean many threads would go unchecked.

Personally i believe that the forums are laid down excellently, the main forums you are proposing be expanded such as hardware don't get as many posts as general help or abs beginners and so don't need expanded.

SunnyRabbiera
November 3rd, 2006, 04:36 PM
I dunno, I like Ubuntu but I really dont like the forums here.
Its really a mess for the newcommer, when they post a problem in the Absolute Beginner Talk forum thier topic is pushed to the bottom quickly by a myrad of other topics.
I think we should break down things a bit here, especially for the Absolute Beginner Talk thing.
I think that said forum should have subforums like:
programs
hardware
installation
minor issues
that sort of thing.
This will help the newcommer a lot, they can post thier problem in the appropreate subforum and we wont see the confusion around here as much.
Just a thought. :D

John.Michael.Kane
November 3rd, 2006, 05:17 PM
You want to keep track of your threads,and others use the subscribe option under User CP.

cipher_nemo
November 4th, 2006, 08:47 AM
I agree, SunnyRabbiera. There's just too much traffic for it to be worthwhile for me too. The forum organization is too simplistic for a community this large.

aysiu
November 4th, 2006, 10:04 AM
I disagree.

Most of the zero-reply threads are zero-reply for a reason--usually that the problem is too obscure and/or no one knows the answer to it.

It has nothing to do with it not being in the proper subforum, honestly.

If you want to keep track of your threads, use the Usr CP. You are usually subscribed to any thread that you posted in.

cipher_nemo
November 5th, 2006, 08:22 AM
Most of the zero-reply threads are zero-reply for a reason--usually that the problem is too obscure and/or no one knows the answer to it.This is really more about how much traffic and how many posts, not zero-reply posts. I don't have any like that, at least right now.


It has nothing to do with it not being in the proper subforum, honestly.It's hard to guess the meaning of a double negative accurately, but from your other words, I can guess at what you mean. From that, sure it does.

If someone posts something and there are no replies, but the post is on the first page for at least a day, the poster can easily guess that enough people noticed the post. If it has no replies and doesn't stay on the first page for more than a couple of minutes, there are really no assurances that anyone bothered reading it.


If you want to keep track of your threads, use the Usr CP. You are usually subscribed to any thread that you posted in.That is a given, but doesn't really apply to the traffic vs. subforum topic. I always subscribe and track posts (with no e-mail option).

I'ts funny to see that only the forum staff are against more subforums (at least in this thread). So if the forum staff doesn't like the idea of subforums, then what other solutions do you propose? Or are you invalidating my point about this being a problem at all? Subscribing to threads and other user tools aren't really a solution for me. Also, bumping threads is a symptom of a forum problem, not a solution. Ideally, no one should have to bump threads.

However, this forum has tons of traffic and posts, and is growing in popularity each day. Any growing institution or company
must grow with their customer. What happens when the copper wire networks reach maximum bandwidth usage? They add more copper lines, or they switch to a different architecture, like fiber.

ubuntu forums should grow with their user/member base. If they don't, they run into problems like this. It won't just go away -- it will get worse as more people join, traffic increases, and more posts pour in, until something changes. Either the forum adapts, or the users leave. You can't expect your users to adapt to you, especially when the other thousands of forums out there, and dozens of Linux distros are your competition.

And yes, this is a user-driven community, but that doesn't exclude it from the same principles of traffic and use ever other popular forum or community experiences at some point. If the forum staff doesn't want to create subforums because it requires more work, then heck, recruit more volunteers and staff first. If the forum staff doesn't want subforums because they don't believe it'll help, then please find another solution. I wouldn't mind helping out if I knew something was going to change.

Doing nothing will only let the problem build. ](*,)

aysiu
November 5th, 2006, 08:42 AM
This is really more about how much traffic and how many posts, not zero-reply posts. I don't have any like that, at least right now. But the idea is that the posts get lost in the shuffle, right? If people are replying to them, clearly they're not being lost in the shuffle.


If someone posts something and there are no replies, but the post is on the first page for at least a day, the poster can easily guess that enough people noticed the post. If it has no replies and doesn't stay on the first page for more than a couple of minutes, there are really no assurances that anyone bothered reading it. There's no need to guess. You can see how many people have read and replied to a thread when you look at the thread--it says how many people have read the thread. If 0 people have read the thread, it hasn't been noticed (or the subject title turned people off). If ten people have read it, but none have replied, then you know the answer wasn't an easy one, even though people noticed and read the thread.


I'ts funny to see that only the forum staff are against more subforums (at least in this thread). Not very many people have responded to this thread, so I don't see how that statement carries any weight.
So if the forum staff doesn't like the idea of subforums, then what other solutions do you propose? Or are you invalidating my point about this being a problem at all? If I agreed that there was a problem, I'd be proposing other solutions, but I don't agree there's a problem.
Subscribing to threads and other user tools aren't really a solution for me. Also, bumping threads is a symptom of a forum problem, not a solution. Ideally, no one should have to bump threads. Yes, and ideally everyone would have the answers to all questions, and ideally all forum members would be able to spend all their time answering questions from new users. Know what? It's not ideal. Not all users have all the answers to all problems. And all forum members are volunteers. Most have full-time jobs or are full-time students. The fact that as many threads as do get answered... do get answered is a testimony to how willing people are to help.

If we had all the subforums you're proposing, people would still need to bump threads, unless you really believe it's easier for those trying to help to go into fifty different subforums looking for posts instead of what they currently do--look in only a few subforums for posts to answer or just look at all new posts.


However, this forum has tons of traffic and posts, and is growing in popularity each day. Any growing institution or company must grow with their customer. What happens when the copper wire networks reach maximum bandwidth usage? They add more copper lines, or they switch to a different architecture, like fiber. I don't see how that's relevant to this discussion. You're assuming that more subforums are superior in some way to fewer subforums. We have subforums right now already. What you want are even more subforums. The idea of subforums is a good idea, but more isn't always better to the nth degree. Just because 10 subforums is good doesn't mean 100 subforums is better and that 1000 subforums are still better. There's a balance to be achieved, and, if you ask me, we already have too many subforums and should cut back on them, but I think most other forum staff would disagree with me on that.

How many subforums we have isn't up to me. I'm only a moderator. Right now I'm just expressing my opinion as a fellow forum user. I have no sway on whether your idea gets implemented or not.


ubuntu forums should grow with their user/member base. If they don't, they run into problems like this. It won't just go away -- it will get worse as more people join, traffic increases, and more posts pour in, until something changes. Either the forum adapts, or the users leave. You can't expect your users to adapt to you, especially when the other thousands of forums out there, and dozens of Linux distros are your competition. You have no idea what you're talking about. We used to have a lot more subforums... and you know what? When we did, people still felt ignored. People still felt as if there was too much traffic. And people still had to bump their threads to get noticed.


And yes, this is a user-driven community, but that doesn't exclude it from the same principles of traffic and use ever other popular forum or community experiences at some point. If the forum staff doesn't want to create subforums because it requires more work, then heck, recruit more volunteers and staff first. If the forum staff doesn't want subforums because they don't believe it'll help, then please find another solution. I wouldn't mind helping out if I knew something was going to change.

Doing nothing will only let the problem build. ](*,) To sum up:

1. I don't agree there's a problem. People get noticed, and when they don't, they should bump their threads. And if they're still getting no answer, no one knows the answer. Such is life. We are not gods. We're fellow users.

2. Creating more subforums will not in any way help more people get helped.

Those are my two opinions, and we clearly don't agree, since, according to you:

1. People don't get noticed because their threads keep getting moved down.

2. The only viable solution to this problem is creating lots of subforums.

Most of the time, productive arguments agree on the problem but not the solution, but we have a fundamental disagreement here on two levels. What you think is a problem I don't think is a problem. What you see as a solution I don't see as a solution. You and I are not going to get anywhere with this. Maybe others can shed more light on the issue.

towsonu2003
November 5th, 2006, 10:03 AM
I think as we are getting more ppl to use Ubuntu, we are getting harder questions here. I remember when I first started, I used to spot many many threads where I could provide help, they were easy enough...

Now, even though I know more about Ubuntu & Linux, the number of threads I know anything about is really low. And those that I know how to really solve is even less.

So I would guess that, for most unanswered posts, no one knew the response (hence, you should use other resources as well). And those who knew the answer didn't see the post (hence, bump up your thread from time to time by replying to it, but don't do too much replying as threads with replies will get less attention -pple will assume someone is dealing with a thread-with-replies).

Many (helping) people here will check about 5-10 pages of new posts and 3-4 pages of unanswered threads. So dividing won't really help you. It will make things harder on newbies (hell, every time the forum get restructured, I get lost :mrgreen: )

And for tracking, subscriptions are really helpful... I am currently subscribed to +780 threads, but the email traffic is really low (1-2 emails per 2 weeks bc threads die down within a couple of days). So if someone responds to my thread a year from now, I'll know about it.

aysiu
November 5th, 2006, 06:59 PM
Funny you should mention that, townsonu2003--I've noticed that too.

When I first started around summer of 2005, I found a lot of simple threads I could answer. Now, the questions seem more technical. Maybe this is a good thing. Maybe this means people are actually searching for and finding the answers to simple questions. Who knows?

I think it'd be interesting to see what the habits are of people who check for threads to help out with.

I will also mention that the more subforums you have, the more people will post in the wrong subforum...

PriceChild
November 6th, 2006, 12:16 AM
When I first started around summer of 2005, I found a lot of simple threads I could answer. Now, the questions seem more technical. Maybe this is a good thing. Maybe this means people are actually searching for and finding the answers to simple questions. Who knows?Personally I think it varies every couple of days.

I'm currently stumped by most questions, but a few days ago everything was pretty simple to me :)

jd65pl
November 6th, 2006, 12:22 AM
Personally I think it varies every couple of days.

I'm currently stumped by most questions, but a few days ago everything was pretty simple to me :)

I think this shows where you area of expertise lies / what you have used your own machine for.

I don't know if it is a good idea or not but how about giving more long term users or moderators a rating on quality of advice or showing their area of expertise next to their user name? I realise this may be open to exploitation.

Perhaps with such a large forum a moderator for each subsection who has a proven and wide knowledge of the subject would be beneficial.

aysiu
November 6th, 2006, 12:24 AM
I think it would be hard to define "area of expertise."

I, for example, can help out with installing and removing desktop environments, finding random configuration files, removing old kernels from Grub, and probably about twenty other random things, but I know nothing about wireless or sound issues or server issues or about fifty other random things.

What would you put next to my username?

Besides, I think the idea of targeting particular users to help you defeats the purpose a forum. The great thing about posting threads is that knowledgeable users come to you. You don't have to guess, "Whom should I ask for help? Who would know about this issue?" The people who can help you will naturally gravitate to your thread, and multiple people can help.

PriceChild
November 6th, 2006, 12:27 AM
Perhaps with such a large forum a moderator for each subsection who has a proven and wide knowledge of the subject would be beneficial.I think you misunderstand the role of a moderator...

We are NOT here to answer questions in are favoured fields.

The whole staff team has a HUGE range of knowledge, at very different levels, but that is not why we were asked to join the team.

We are just users with extra buttons to press - we can help the forum run more smoothly. We're not meant to be the most knowledgable people on these forums in any way... except maybe that god that is aysiu ;)

jd65pl
November 6th, 2006, 12:29 AM
Given example: (Without intent of offence!)

From watching the forums for 6 months I note that you are have a second to few knowledge on the workings of the workings of ubuntu as a total package.

PriceChild seems to have a good knowledge of graphical enhancements

However I acept that it is very difficult to identify a specific area for a user.


I think you misunderstand the role of a moderator...

We are NOT here to answer questions in are favoured fields.

The whole staff team has a HUGE range of knowledge, at very different levels, but that is not why we were asked to join the team.

We are just users with extra buttons to press - we can help the forum run more smoothly. We're not meant to be the most knowledgable people on these forums in any way... except maybe that god that is aysiu ;)

I realise this and the volume of traffic inflicted on the users would more than likely be unmanagable. Perhaps advertising other sources of information (doc storage, wiki, psychocats etc) could be increased/considered.

John.Michael.Kane
November 6th, 2006, 01:29 AM
First I take extreme offense to your statement. jd65pl your statement implies that only those you say have the expert knowledge of Linux/Ubuntu be

1) Mods
2) Allowed to help on these forums
3) Those who don't have knowledge that you deem necessary don't count


Who are you to judge,and decide who is qualified or unqualified to answer a post or be of viable help around here.

jd65pl
November 6th, 2006, 01:41 AM
First I take extreme offense to your statement. jd65pl your statement implies that only those you say have the expert knowledge of Linux/Ubuntu be

1) Mods
2) Allowed to help on these forums
3) Those who don't have knowledge that you deem necessary don't count


Who are you to judge,and decide who is qualified or unqualified to answer a post or be of viable help around here.

I was not intended to be taken as such hence the line in my OP. Merely an idea based around "champions of fields" ie those who have the knowledge should be able to impart it, I'm not aware of your knowledge of comericial industry but from mine there has always been those who have a acute knowledge of the workings of a certain system or the workings of an aspect or concept. Besides it wouldn't be "my" judgement on how competetent a user was in providing the knowledge it would be a decision based on the communities opinion.

John.Michael.Kane
November 6th, 2006, 02:00 AM
First off you claim one of the posters have little to no knowledge of ubuntu. next you say PriceChild is proficient at graphical enhancements.

Instead of belittling the knowledge of those around here trying to help,and whom you may not even know. why not try to get to know those helping around here.

Bottom line your statement is offensive,and taken as such.

Your post comes across as judgmental,and would make users feel that any answer given would be a waste, as the only answer that would count is your own.

jd65pl
November 6th, 2006, 02:51 AM
First off you claim one of the posters have little to no knowledge of ubuntu. next you say PriceChild is proficient at graphical enhancements.

Instead of belittling the knowledge of those around here trying to help,and whom you may not even know. why not try to get to know those helping around here.

Bottom line your statement is offensive,and taken as such.

Your post comes across as judgmental,and would make users feel that any answer given would be a waste, as the only answer that would count is your own.

If you feel so strongly about the post would you like me to withdraw it?

I have NEVER claimed that a poster has little to no knowledge of ubuntu. I feel that this comment is slanderous. I'm unsure how you have come to this conclusion, however I would be happy to discuss the post in which I have stated these words.

There was no implication of a dictatorship being suggested to rule over the forum or that other posts should be belittled merely some sort of championship amongst the main forum subtypes may provide some kind of leadership and direction.


next you say PriceChild is proficient at graphical enhancements.Never did I say the person was "proficient", may I suggest you read the words that you place so much emphasis upon?

John.Michael.Kane
November 6th, 2006, 03:09 AM
Given example: (Without intent of offence!)

From watching the forums for 6 months I note that you are have a second to few knowledge on the workings of the workings of ubuntu as a total package.

PriceChild seems to have a good knowledge of graphical enhancements


Right there you claim one [who ever it is] has little knowledge the workings of ubuntu as a total package.

Next you claim PriceChild has knowledge of graphical enhancements.

jd65pl bottom line still stands,and your statement is still offensive. as for this championship theory you have it holds no water for the simple fact it implies only certain people should post ie: those who hold your championship status.

I have spoken my peace. Your attitude leads one to believe that your answers are the only one that should count. you don't like that questions go unanswered then answer them.

jd65pl
November 6th, 2006, 03:19 AM
Right there you claim one [who ever it is] has little knowledge the workings of ubuntu as a total package.

Next you claim PriceChild has knowledge of graphical enhancements.

jd65pl bottom line still stands,and your statement is still offensive. as for this championship theory you have it holds no water for the simple fact it implies only certain people should post ie: those who hold your championship status.

I have spoken my peace. Your attitude leads one to believe that your answers are the only one that should count. you don't like that questions go unanswered then answer them.

Maybe the phrase "second to none" only exists in the uk???

My attitude is not as you are lead to believe. Perhaps my articulation was poor. I was only trying to provide another solution to problems other people were experiencing.

In future I will definately think twice about posting due to adverse response.

I am sure that forums are not the best medium for ALL discussion.

cipher_nemo
November 6th, 2006, 03:52 AM
This has gotten way off topic. Why the personal attacks on both sides? There is probably a miscommunication here (or misinterpretation) that has gone too far.

jd65pl
November 6th, 2006, 03:55 AM
This has gotten way off topic. Why the personal attacks on both sides? There is probably a miscommunication here (or misinterpretation) that has gone too far.

Agreed never my original intention, applogies for jacking the post on my part.

j

towsonu2003
November 6th, 2006, 06:22 AM
cool down ppl