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Ionix
October 27th, 2006, 02:12 PM
Hi people.

I am posting to voice out my concerns regarding <Absolute Beginner>. I realize the posting rate in this forum is so fast that 1 new post will simply be out of the first page after 45 mins. There is so many people in need of help here. But most have their post "abandoned" by the public or "long forgotten", without even answered.

How or what can the forum community and the moderators do in order to keep all question posted answered?

For example, I posted 1 question regarding Ubuntu installation about 6 hrs ago and now it's in the 5th page of the forum, and I believe question will not be answered or viewed anyone. How sad.

dupa
October 27th, 2006, 02:41 PM
i agree with you.
i noticed that the there is a kind of lack of support.

az_human
October 27th, 2006, 02:42 PM
For those looking for unanswered posts, simply click 'Search' and then 'Unanswered Posts'. How is this sad? It's a busy forum. The posters do what they can.

xtacocorex
October 27th, 2006, 02:45 PM
I don't want to come across as rude or anything, but most of the posts in the beginner section have already been posted there numerous times. Most new users don't look for answers, they just post blindly. Yes this is a generalization and it may not be the case with your thread, but that's my observation.

bulldog
October 27th, 2006, 02:46 PM
It would be a big help as the user who needs help take a look around to see if there is a similar question or even use the search.

Now is 'everybody' upgrading from Dapper to Edgy and you see the same question over and over again.

It's not fun to answer the same question 10 times in a row.

Just take a look around before you post your question :D

navneeth
October 27th, 2006, 02:55 PM
I don't want to come across as rude or anything, but most of the posts in the beginner section have already been posted there numerous times. Most new users don't look for answers, they just post blindly. Yes this is a generalization and it may not be the case with your thread, but that's my observation.
That's true. I, too, initially felt that these (great, very helpful bunch) people ignore newbies, but it is not true at all.

In fact, searching with tags in the forum index page will save you a lot of time. You'll probably get a page full of the useful threads, and those threads in turn will link to others.

Ionix
October 27th, 2006, 02:55 PM
Hi

How does the forum define which post is answered or which post is unanswered?

For my example, please take a look at this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=285528
which i posted 6 hrs ago... This guy just give me a link to google result and expect me to find a answer myself.... Is as good as asking me to "Google it up".

You see that are people that dont really are commited to helping out. Sorry to say this, but this guys seems to be an example.

I agree with bulldog about searching... I have a few search and some similar questions did pop out, but none actually is helping me. Either I don't understand the content or... it's no quite exactly the same problem as mine.

So there is a need to "educate" people that, please only answer someone when they really know the answer. Or the forum should actually add a "trigger" that the original poster can flag if his question has answered. or the moderators have declare it's answered.

Rackerz
October 27th, 2006, 02:55 PM
There was a lot more support around back when Breezy was released, my answers were answered ALOT more frequently. The trouble is guys since Ubuntu has become more and more popular there's so many people posting it's hard to sometimes get your question answered. Also make sure you post in detail.

Ben Sprinkle
October 27th, 2006, 02:58 PM
This has been addressed before, jdong I think is the one.
We just wait and be patient for someone to answer. If no one answers then that's because they don't know.

xtacocorex
October 27th, 2006, 03:00 PM
Hi

How does the forum define which post is answered or which post is unanswered?

For my example, please take a look at this http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=285528
which i posted 6 hrs ago... This guy just give me a link to google result and expect me to find a answer myself.... Is as good as asking me to "Google it up".

You see that are people that dont really are commited to helping out. Sorry to say this, but this guys seems to be an example.

I agree with bulldog about searching... I have a few search and some similar questions did pop out, but none actually is helping me. Either I don't understand the content or... it's no quite exactly the same problem as mine.

So there is a need to "educate" people that, please only answer someone when they really know the answer. Or the forum should actually add a "trigger" that the original poster can flag if his question has answered. or the moderators have declare it's answered.
I did post to your thread about your installation, hope it helps.
Some of my original threads were never answered, mainly due to them being very technical, so sometimes, people may not have the answer.

JoeNobody
October 27th, 2006, 03:06 PM
Looks like they need to diversify the 'Absolute Beginner' to more detailed subjects... Installation, Automatix, Drivers, Software, Errors, etc...

I posted a topic yesterday, I only got replies when it was on the main page and now its down close to page 10.

Ionix
October 27th, 2006, 03:12 PM
Yes I agree with joeNodBody

Either further branch out the Beginner forum.
Or can consider my suggestion as to add a "TRIGGER" to each thread, and only the original poster or the moderator can declare the thread answered.

sKuarecircle
October 27th, 2006, 03:13 PM
It is a issue , yes, one thats going to be confounded even more now that Edgy is out HOWEVER! soldier on, if your post is not answered, bump it, it's not answered beacause no one wants to help, it has literally just fallen back to page ten where noone can see it.

Keep the faith, ultimatley as the knowledge base grows the posting will slow down, it's a big ask , but i tell you what.....I will be there when it happens and do everything with my limited knlowedge to get as many folk there as possible.

Ubuntu.........look up the meaning!!!

bulldog
October 27th, 2006, 03:14 PM
Looks like they need to diversify the 'Absolute Beginner' to more detailed subjects... Installation, Automatix, Drivers, Software, Errors, etc...

I posted a topic yesterday, I only got replies when it was on the main page and now its down close to page 10.

Well give it a "bump" after a few hours or so.

Then it's on the frontpage again:D

It's important to explain your problem readable and understandable.

I can tell you story's about poster who ask a minor thing so I jump in and then they have a lot more troubles so I'm stuck for the evening.

You won't leave them so you try to help them out,but it's no fun that way.

sKuarecircle
October 27th, 2006, 03:17 PM
Well bulldog, I know what you mean, and you are ten to one one of the guys that have ensured that i stick with Ubuntu and not just throw in the towel. I am so new to this it's scary, but guys like you make ir=t worthwhile. (I think I am going to cry now):)

bulldog
October 27th, 2006, 03:23 PM
Well bulldog, I know what you mean, and you are ten to one one of the guys that have ensured that i stick with Ubuntu and not just throw in the towel. I am so new to this it's scary, but guys like you make ir=t worthwhile. (I think I am going to cry now):)

Thank you,me too snifff snuf......snif

jd65pl
October 27th, 2006, 03:58 PM
There is a function of the forum you may not be aware of. The "get unanswered posts" search, it is accessible via the search drop down at the top of the page and will show all those posts which do not yet have a reply.

Ionix
October 27th, 2006, 04:04 PM
Please view post #7 jd65pl.

You will understand that even the "unanswered post" will become useless if some "answer" dont even answer ur question.

bswilson
October 27th, 2006, 04:06 PM
This may sound draconian, but I'd like to see a requirement for each forum member to reply to 3 unanswered posts every month in order to retain membership. That might help.

I try my best to help folks who've posted, but as others have said, it gets very old responding to the same posts over and over...

jd65pl
October 27th, 2006, 04:15 PM
This may sound draconian, but I'd like to see a requirement for each forum member to reply to 3 unanswered posts every month in order to retain membership. That might help.

I try my best to help folks who've posted, but as others have said, it gets very old responding to the same posts over and over...

I think this would be counter productive as some users may post just for the reason of keeping their membership.


Please view post #7 jd65pl.

You will understand that even the "unanswered post" will become useless if some "answer" dont even answer ur question.

I was just pointing out a functionally of the forums that users may not be aware of.

Ben Sprinkle
October 27th, 2006, 04:26 PM
This may sound draconian, but I'd like to see a requirement for each forum member to reply to 3 unanswered posts every month in order to retain membership. That might help.

I try my best to help folks who've posted, but as others have said, it gets very old responding to the same posts over and over...

Forum + ^ = Ubuntu Death.

caravel
October 27th, 2006, 04:54 PM
Simple: The absolute beginner forum needs to be divided into clearly categorised subforums, that way threads won't disappear off the first page so quickly.

jkvv_1973
October 27th, 2006, 04:55 PM
i agree with you.
i noticed that the there is a kind of lack of support.


sorry I had to go to the restroom...what was the problem?:p


Joking aside I have been helped in this forum 80%-90% of the time...and Ill say it again "Thank you Developers and Moderators...for making this forum very helpful" may it be some other thread thats been answered already...

and besides nobody owes you an answer the damn OS is free...:evil:

louieb
October 27th, 2006, 06:35 PM
Talking about the beginner forum. What do you expect, beginners make beginner mistakes because that what they are. Four months ago grub was only an insect that ate my yard. All I knew was that I wanted to see what Linux was all about.
I believe that most just don't know what to look for or how to phrase a search. This is why I am inclined to answer a question with a reference to another post or give a Google search term.
I also believe people want a fresh answer. Even though a two year old answer my be the same or better that one written yesterday. I am that way I take the latest answer anytime.

PriceChild
October 27th, 2006, 06:36 PM
Looks like they need to diversify the 'Absolute Beginner' to more detailed subjects... Installation, Automatix, Drivers, Software, Errors, etc...

I posted a topic yesterday, I only got replies when it was on the main page and now its down close to page 10.


Yes I agree with joeNodBody

Either further branch out the Beginner forum.
Or can consider my suggestion as to add a "TRIGGER" to each thread, and only the original poster or the moderator can declare the thread answered.
Simple: The absolute beginner forum needs to be divided into clearly categorised subforums, that way threads won't disappear off the first page so quickly.The forums have already been diversified!!!

You will find loads of subforums all over the place, including art, automatix, backports, etc. etc.

Ionix
October 28th, 2006, 02:52 AM
But to be precise the beginner section should be treated as inidvidual section forum. Cause as the growing interest of ubuntu/linux to the public, more and more people is switching from windows to linux. The original beginner thread can no longer take the load.... The already-made sub-forums do help but people that surf on it is rather pro and "maybe" they'll be less helpful to help... While as the people that voluntary surf the beginner forum are people that is willing to spend time to help, example bulldog? This is because both question asker and answer will all go to the allocated to ask for help or to help... So if you are suggesting we can post to other sub-forums then the case will be this suggestion is not feasible.

PriceChild
October 28th, 2006, 03:04 AM
At the moment, because of the huge amount of posts, lots of threads are being out of the beginers chat and general help to more approriate forums.

Ionix
October 28th, 2006, 03:15 AM
So the community will not consider our suggestion for the time being?

... how sad... but hopefully this will be consider and implement.

John.Michael.Kane
October 28th, 2006, 03:16 AM
Ionix you can't single out one person as the end all be all in the help department. the one man show don't fly.

There are many here who help alot more then just one person.

People want help yet people don't have the time to wait or search.

aysiu
October 28th, 2006, 03:22 AM
As someone who goes out of his way to search for unanswered posts, I have to say I rarely see unanswered posts that are easy to answer.

They are usually for obscure problems.

If someone can find an unanswered post that's been posted in the last 24 hours and has an easy answer, please post a link here. Otherwise, I stand by my observations.

aysiu
October 28th, 2006, 05:46 PM
Update:

I just did a search of Unanswered Posts, and out of about 250 or so threads, I could answer only three of them.

The truth is that posts don't get lost... some just don't have easy answers... or answers at all.

Tomosaur
October 28th, 2006, 05:49 PM
The responsibility is on the poster to check whether a problem has already been reported and/or solved. There's no use making multiple threads about unsolved problems, a bump of an unanswered thread will suffice. There are more people reporting problems than there are who are able to solve them, which is perfectly normal, so naturally it will take a little while to all problems to be resolved. Patience is the key.

aysiu
October 28th, 2006, 05:50 PM
If my threads don't get answered, I just bump them every 24 or 48 hours.

Ionix
October 28th, 2006, 06:10 PM
Well patience can only work when ur problem is not critical....

Critical problems like installations, internet connection, etc are quite crucial. And these are usually the areas causing new linux users to simply give up on, and revert back to windows.

For my case I tried installing Knoppix 2 yrs again... and i'm forced to revert back cause I am unable to make my USB modem connect to the internet... This is the fact why new linux users are still so "uneducated" toward the full scales of linux functionality.

I think the linux community should actually concentrate on the more urgent needs in linux development. Internet Connections, file exporting... user friendiness in these are will be the greatest attraction.

I mean personally I will look forward to these upgrades and improvement rather than linux kernal improvements.

caravel
October 28th, 2006, 09:04 PM
The forums have already been diversified!!!

You will find loads of subforums all over the place, including art, automatix, backports, etc. etc.

I was referring to subforums within "absolute beginners" forum and not elsewhere. At present it has the feel of a filesystem that keeps all files in one folder. Also many threads disappear off the first few pages in a matter of hours. If it was broken up this would be less of a problem, and it would be easier for new people, like myself, to search for revelant threads. It could be divided into e.g. Installation, hardware and software forums, because the biggest problems seem to be like "my graphics card / modem / sound card doesn't work", "installation crashes / doesn't work", "I can't install this, log in as root". It needs categorising in my opinion anyway. Make it easier for us all. :)

p.s. I think many smaller forums place less load on the db than one big heavily loaded one. So may be worth considering. ;)

aysiu
October 28th, 2006, 09:21 PM
Also many threads disappear off the first few pages in a matter of hours. Why is that a problem?

As I pointed out twice before, unanswered posts are usually unanswered for a reason. And if not, it's the responsibility of the original post-er to bump the thread after a day or two. People trying to help absolute beginners are not more likely to find your thread if it's in Absolute Beginner > Application Installation than if it were in Absolute Beginner.

If anything, by dividing it more within Absolute Beginner, you're creating more work for those trying to help. When I first started helping out on these forums, I basically looked into two forums--Absolute Beginner and Ubuntu Cafe (then called Community Chat). I didn't want to click on eight different links to find threads.

Later, I realized I was more likely to find posts if I just did a search for new posts, and that's what I do now. I search for new posts and exclude (through the User CP settings) subforums I know nothing about or have no interest in--programming, gaming, servers).

To sum up: no benefit for the person needing help because ignored threads can be bumped and people are actually less likely to find the thread if it's divided up even further, and no benefit to those trying to help, as they will either go to one or two forums (not twenty separate ones) or just search for new threads.
If it was broken up this would be less of a problem, and it would be easier for new people, like myself, to search for revelant threads. Try searching then.

If you're looking for answers, the best thing to do is a search, not a browse.

John.Michael.Kane
October 28th, 2006, 09:57 PM
Users concerned with their post disappearing would subscribe to them so that they would know if that have been answered or not,and you would be able to keep track of them.

PriceChild
October 29th, 2006, 01:36 AM
I was referring to subforums within "absolute beginners" forum and not elsewhere.So you're suggesting we have:

The forums
|....................\
beginners......general
|.....................................\
50 subforums ..............An identical 50 subforums... to those on the left

What would be the point in that? The same questions would appear in both forums just as much.

Jose Catre-Vandis
October 29th, 2006, 03:01 AM
When I took on Ubuntu (seemingly full time!) 9 months ago, ubuntuforums became my home. Every thing I have wanted to do has an answer on this forum, or on Ubuntu Guide or the Ubuntu Wiki. Creative searching of the forum always turned up a starting point. I am used to browsing and searching forums, and recognise that you have to put some effort in to get results out. I am constantly amazed by the in depth knowledge and expertise, plus the helpfulness of folk here, that have guided me to ubuntu happiness. I accept that there are still hardware limitations, and that the will be overcome by the people who write the code for the heck of it, but with that aside I have software on my system that does everything XP did. I have now started giving back, and the rewards are greater when you help someone find the solution. So my answer to the OP is to search search search before you post. The search box on the forum, the related sites, and then Google, are your friends, and the pleasure you derive from figuring out the answers yourself is immense. However, if all else fails, your "unique" question will get attention :-)

trash
October 29th, 2006, 03:42 AM
I still remember my beginnings in linux and two things that drove me insane were being on dialup and searching for something using incorrect or inaccurate terminology... telling people to do a search is not an answer at all... it can take some people a very long time to search and sift through tons of data they may not even understand... not fun for most absolute beginners.
I am guilty of not answering to many posts, mostly because i think many others will give a better answer than I will.. i guess i should start paying more attention to unanswered posts.:)

Albi
October 29th, 2006, 03:44 AM
What if we temporarily double the number of forums viewed per page when a new release comes out?

PriceChild
October 29th, 2006, 10:23 AM
What if we temporarily double the number of forums viewed per page when a new release comes out?That would increase load on the server and make it a LOT slower.

sKuarecircle
October 29th, 2006, 10:33 AM
When I took on Ubuntu (seemingly full time!) 9 months ago, ubuntuforums became my home. Every thing I have wanted to do has an answer on this forum, or on Ubuntu Guide or the Ubuntu Wiki. Creative searching of the forum always turned up a starting point. I am used to browsing and searching forums, and recognise that you have to put some effort in to get results out. I am constantly amazed by the in depth knowledge and expertise, plus the helpfulness of folk here, that have guided me to ubuntu happiness. I accept that there are still hardware limitations, and that the will be overcome by the people who write the code for the heck of it, but with that aside I have software on my system that does everything XP did. I have now started giving back, and the rewards are greater when you help someone find the solution. So my answer to the OP is to search search search before you post. The search box on the forum, the related sites, and then Google, are your friends, and the pleasure you derive from figuring out the answers yourself is immense. However, if all else fails, your "unique" question will get attention :-)

hear hear