Linux vs. Vista

[stmiller]

Reply #2001! Is this thread a record?

[ryanVickers]

no - there's one thats in the 200,000's I believe :p

[Frak]

no - there's one thats in the 200,000's I believe :p
Word Association Thread.

[roaldz]

May I say that Windows Vista is much better in resizing windows with Aero enabled than Gutsy Gibbon with Compiz Fusion?
It´s pissing me off, really. Why can´t that be fixed?

[klange]

May I say that Windows Vista is much better in resizing windows with Aero enabled than Gutsy Gibbon with Compiz Fusion?
It´s pissing me off, really. Why can´t that be fixed?
What exactly is the problem? How it looks? How it performs? There are, what, 3 different options on how to handle window resizing with C-F. Have you considered switching to another one?

[Kadrus]

What exactly is the problem? How it looks? How it performs? There are, what, 3 different options on how to handle window resizing with C-F. Have you considered switching to another one?
Dude,your nickname owns:p..:lolflag:..seriously!!

[darksong]

Compiz fusion (for me) always laggs really really bad on older hardware - eg nvidia fx5200 128mb jobby.

[ryanVickers]

after every logon, I would always have to do a little tinkering with the CF and nvidia settings (like, changing them on and off and originally back to their original state ;)) and then it would all run nice. But yeah, it always defaults to bad settings...

[darksong]

:) - Compiz fusion is still in beta???????

It runs very nice on my newish PC.

[inversekinetix]

no probs here with CF, i prefer running under xfce tho

[Frak]

CF runs dandy on an Nvidia 5500 FX w/ all effects enabled.

[darksong]

CF runs dandy on an Nvidia 5500 FX w/ all effects enabled.

Cool! - i find that performance switches from distro to distro - pclinuxos has always been the best for me! :)

[Znort_Ubern00b]

Compiz fusion (for me) always laggs really really bad on older hardware - eg nvidia fx5200 128mb jobby.

I don't have any real probs with it on my 128mb agp card...but for me it has to be linux from here on in.just need to convert the missus and kids now, they still work on XP(which isn't too bad...far better than Vista ever will be)...parents still plodding on with vista...have used PC twice and hate it something chronic...

[Frak]

Cool! - i find that performance switches from distro to distro - pclinuxos has always been the best for me! :)
Most RPM distros hate my card. :(
DEB distros all work fine.

[perixx]

you can't ever be sure. That's the problem. You have to trust Microsoft.
@weblordpepe:
Eh... isn't that what "Trusted Computing" is all about ?? X-}

Compiz fusion (for me) always laggs really really bad on older hardware - eg nvidia fx5200 128mb jobby.
@darksong:
Ever considered, what Windows Wussta would be like on your hardware ? [|:-]=


perixx

[darksong]

@weblordpepe:
Eh... isn't that what "Trusted Computing" is all about ?? X-}


@darksong:
Ever considered, what Windows Wussta would be like on your hardware ? [|:-]=


perixx

I have ran vista on my old PC - ran fine and pretty good with aero.

[Showpan]

Ubuntu will never down if she keeps going

[ryanVickers]

@weblordpepe:
Eh... isn't that what "Trusted Computing" is all about ?? X-}

I would trust microsoft at anything about as much as I would my computer if it ran with a couple of randomly placed terminals setup to jump into focus randomly and format my hard drive on any key press :lolflag:

[inversekinetix]

I would trust microsoft at anything about as much as I would my computer if it ran with a couple of randomly placed terminals setup to jump into focus randomly and format my hard drive on any key press :lolflag:



ryan why do you hate windows so much? your anti windows jibes are all over this forum but they never really point out windows faults in any detail, just little jabs with no substance. That aside, a lot of new windows users have no idea what theyre doing and will understandably run into security issues, I bet few of them run into anything as damaging as

http://ubuntuforums.org/announcement.php?a=54

imagine if a new linux user was given one of those commands, boom, system gone because you ran a 5 letter command. Its great having a secure building but when the self destruct button is there to be pushed by anyone its only as safe as the people in it.

no?

[ryanVickers]

I knew I shouldn't have removed that link to why windows is bad from my signature... :p

It's not just the incredible weakness of the OS, but the actions and "values" of the company - there are none! Say, how Ubuntu stands for being good to all and sharing the work and products, and apple is about producing only the highest quality, easiest and most intuitive products, and microsoft stands for making money at any cost (they don't think twice about anything that could be viewed as "bad") gathering info and doing basically whatever they feel like, because they can! :p It's all true!!! :(

[inversekinetix]

I knew I shouldn't have removed that link to why windows is bad from my signature... :p

It's not just the incredible weakness of the OS, but the actions and "values" of the company - there are none! Say, how Ubuntu stands for being good to all and sharing the work and products, and apple is about producing only the highest quality, easiest and most intuitive products, and microsoft stands for making money at any cost (they don't think twice about anything that could be viewed as "bad") gathering info and doing basically whatever they feel like, because they can! :p It's all true!!! :(

Please re add the link I'd like to see how microsoft is any worse at making money than the banks people use, the companies that make the clothes people wear or even the companies that make the food people eat. I find it amuzing that people berate the morality of microsoft's business practices whilst waering clothes made by children.

[ryanVickers]

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=467469

It's not so much problems with microsoft as it is windows, hence the name, but there's a little bit of everything in there :p

[inversekinetix]

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=467469

It's not so much problems with microsoft as it is windows, hence the name, but there's a little bit of everything in there :p

Ah, I've already seen that self serving windows bashing thread, I thought you were going to put a link to something substantial.

It looks like an endless tirade of anti windows rhetoric interspersed with masses of smileys. I could understand the hatred if there was any actual facts posted alongside the claims, but there aren't any facts, just wild claims and accusations. You talk as though there isn't a single problem with linux and that even looking at a windows product will result in multiple problems. To be honest, resorting to such comments as the "punching out MS staff" one are, well, you can imagine.

In the end, the unbridled use of smileys, incessant unfounded jabs with no basis result in making this thread look like the computing version of



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHmvkRoEowc

[pjkoczan]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/security/security_report_windows_vs_linux/
http://www.vanwensveen.nl/rants/microsoft/IhateMS.html
http://dmartin.org/weblog/things-i-can-do-in-linux-that-i-cant-do-on-windows
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Windows_and_Linux

I admit, the second one is biased, but very factual and articulate. For the most part, whenever apples-to-apples comparisons are presented (i.e. you avoid the Windows-biases from the "Linux isn't ready for the desktop" pundits...yeah, there's bias there too), Linux wins.

As an aside, bias isn't inherently bad, and when you think about it, every opinion has some bias. You have to identify the bias and determine how much it matters, how much it skews the analysis, and how valid the arguments are in spite of it. To say that an opinion is biased matters not as it puts the focus on the messenger as much as the message. It's when that bias skews the opinion beyond validity that it becomes an issue.

[ryanVickers]

...I could understand the hatred if there was any actual facts posted alongside the claims, but there aren't any facts, just wild claims and accusations

Are you kidding me!? Everyone in the world, whether or not they really notice or care are victims to at least 1 or another problems in windows! It slows down over time unnecessarily, you need anti-virus software, etc etc., and if your a Linux user, you are also effected - the stories of microsoft claiming we infringe patents is no myth or mystery, it's been in countless news articles!

[inversekinetix]

Are you kidding me!? Everyone in the world, whether or not they really notice or care are victims to at least 1 or another problems in windows! It slows down over time unnecessarily, you need anti-virus software, etc etc., and if your a Linux user, you are also effected - the stories of microsoft claiming we infringe patents is no myth or mystery, it's been in countless news articles!

Again with the crazy claims,

Everyone in the world

My xp installation is just as fast now as when I installed it, even the benchmark tests I run say so.

You don't need antivirus software unless you're going to put yourself at the mercy of countless unscrupulous criminals, how can you blame windows for other peoples actions? And being as there are free effective AV solutions, what is the problem?. Are you going to take the same stance with car manufacturers? You can break into a car faster than you can a computer.

Whether linux has misapropriated code or not is something I know little about, I would imagine that if someone has a claim against it then the legal process would determine the validity of said claim.



Again I wait for more substance.

[Frak]

Whether linux has misapropriated code or not is something I know little about, I would imagine that if someone has a claim against it then the legal process would determine the validity of said claim.

Pfft... That just goes to the Corporate lobbyists. Who would most likely deem all Linux users "infringing" on the "Double Click", from then on we must all "Triple Click" to avoid another lawsuit.

[roaldz]

What exactly is the problem? How it looks? How it performs? There are, what, 3 different options on how to handle window resizing with C-F. Have you considered switching to another one?

I use the normal resize mode, I just want to see the change I make by resizing the window in ¨realtime¨.
I´ve noticed this difference especially with Mozilla Firefox. If I resize firefox on windows, it´s just smooth like chocolate. If I do this in X.org, it´s slow like cold chocolate sauce.
It takes away the full power of 1 of my cores (Core 2 Duo T7200-2.0ghz/4MB L2). I don´t think my system is underpowered for these actions.
I mean, did none of you guys notice this? It´s buggin me. Makes me a bit jealous of Windows :(

EDIT: And yes, I like chocolate sauce SO much, when it´s warm!

[Sunnz]

I use the normal resize mode, I just want to see the change I make by resizing the window in ¨realtime¨.
I´ve noticed this difference especially with Mozilla Firefox. If I resize firefox on windows, it´s just smooth like chocolate. If I do this in X.org, it´s slow like cold chocolate sauce.
It takes away the full power of 1 of my cores (Core 2 Duo T7200-2.0ghz/4MB L2). I don´t think my system is underpowered for these actions.
I mean, did none of you guys notice this? It´s buggin me. Makes me a bit jealous of Windows :(

EDIT: And yes, I like chocolate sauce SO much, when it´s warm!
To be honest, no I never 'notice' this as it does not happen at all!!

My guess would be that you did not have a 3D accelerated driver installed? You might want to start a thread in the help section to verify that you have to right video driver installed, as it is definitely not normal on Ubuntu.

[ryanVickers]

no, this is true - it is quite slow in comparison with the light speed instantness of when the effects are off... :(

[Chayak]

Well Vista did win in the top ten worst tech products of all time...

http://crave.cnet.co.uk/gadgets/0,39029552,49293700-10,00.htm

[roaldz]

To be honest, no I never 'notice' this as it does not happen at all!!

My guess would be that you did not have a 3D accelerated driver installed? You might want to start a thread in the help section to verify that you have to right video driver installed, as it is definitely not normal on Ubuntu.

I have the proper nvidia-glx driver installed from the repositories, I can play new games, and I have direct rendering. it´s a problem with the Xorg construction, its slow.
This is a major BUG for Linux if it wants to penetrate the desktop market. People want a FAST and LIGHT os. Not an os that shows glitches when moving and resizing windows.

Sorry for those 2 cents, I believe in Linux, so I know it can be done!

[perixx]

hehe...

Are you going to take the same stance with car manufacturers? You can break into a car faster than you can a computer.


CARS are perhaps not the best topic when it comes to comparing with Windows, as everyone should know by now ^^
http://www.snopes.com/humor/jokes/autos.asp
:^o

Edit: No doubt, Windows CAN be set up relatively secure and responsive. From all I've learned during the years, though - windows has much more hidden loopholes, ****loads of registry 'tweaks' and programs spying on you in stock, than you'll ever be able to find and fix (plus, they're getting more with every update).
Just to give you a clue: IE+ActiveX, WGA & WPA, WMP+DRM, secret updates, auto-error-reporting, automatic mime-execution on content, running services (UPnP, server, msdtc, com+...), remote administration, remote registry, hidden remote shares) - if you're no REAL admin, you'll have a real hard time setting up the 255 SECURITY-policies in the registry safely, as well, I would say.
I know there're a lot of tweaking-tools out there (xp-antispy, xpy, xplite... used quite some myself :^), but none which cover all issues and most of which can cause even more trouble (like endless shutdown sessions, spoiled user-settings or a wrecked system).

In Ubuntu, basically all I have to set is a secure user password and auto-updates via official repos (set up by default).
Preventing connections to X-server (disabled by default), deactivating file-sharing (disabled by default) is obsolete - if I WANT TO, I can contribute to the hardware-database project (disabled by default).
Maybe disabling the automatic network-service and switching off IPv6 (internet & FF) is a good idea.
If I want to be safe from Inet-nags, I install 'noscript', 'adblockplus', 'spoofstick' and 'prefbar' to FF, set 'permissions.images' to 3 (FF & TB) and 'dom.storage.enabled' to false. Lastly, tuning the flashplayer-security-settings with macromedia's settings-panel on their website and that's it. Of course, I choose a MediaPlayer without cddb and crap like this and enjoy a nice a clean system without any virus- or spyware-hassles ever. ^^

Btw., it's probably a lot easier and faster to 'break' into a fresh installed XP (with activated RemoteConnection, anonymous shares wide open and the hidden, passwordless 'Administrator'-account in the background), than to break into a 20 years old car with having the keys at hand :-D

perixx

[Handssolow]

With Skype Beta Linux now available with webcam support we're able to have webcam chats with our son in the USA, previously we've had to use XP.

I've already bought most of the hardware to upgrade another of our PCs but upgrading it's OS is another matter. No problem with Ubuntu but impossible under the EULA of our version of XP. I'd have to buy some more Microsoft software and the cost? One online shop that we've used before has a quoted price of £234. Our household still remains depend on Microsoft's operating systems to enable us to update my TomTom satnav and others to run games under XP.

I've now escaped the problems in Ubuntu that I had with my wireless card by physically installing a wired connection to our wireless router, others may not have this option. I'd like it to be easier to play video streamed media. OK I can eventually get things working but will it be under mplayer or Totem?

So much do I appreciate the value of this Forum, I ask everyone who isn't already doing so to report any success they achieve with their PC running Ubuntu.

Anyone who makes progress with TomTom under Wine please make a posting.

[inversekinetix]

hehe...



No doubt, Windows CAN be set up relatively secure and responsive.





Thanks, I'm glad you agree with me.

[regomodo]

Well, i got Vista so i could use dx10 for crysis.
Vista installed fairly easily and quickly but everytime i boot it BSOD and restarts just after the microsoft splash screen. This happens on an infinite loop.

I want to get a good opinion as possible so that i can spot the fud. Guess this sort of gives me the best pov.

Go Vista!

[perixx]

Edit: No doubt, Windows CAN be set up relatively secure and responsive.
re: Thanks, I'm glad you agree with me.

partially, my frient, partially :) don't forget to read the rest:

From all I've learned during the years, though - windows has much more hidden loopholes, ****loads of registry 'tweaks' and programs spying on you in stock, than you'll ever be able to find and fix (plus, they're getting more with every update).

Just to give you a clue: IE+ActiveX, WGA & WPA, WMP+DRM, secret updates, auto-error-reporting, automatic mime-execution on content, running services (UPnP, server, msdtc, com+...), remote administration, remote registry, hidden remote shares) - if you're no REAL admin, you'll have a real hard time setting up the 255 SECURITY-policies in the registry safely, as well, I would say.

Regarding the speed: I've just read a review of Vista SP1rc1 vs. XP SP3a...

XP is up to 50% faster with games (!) So, if just every 2nd PC-freak would mail 2 or 3 times to Redmond, they might be forced to release directX10 for XP -- and 'hasta la Vista - Vista'! And if ATI and Nvidia finally provided REAL open 3D drivers it might mean: 'hasta la Vista Windows'... but it remains to be seen, if everything works out as they say with the new SP3 for XP; right now, XP is still a cluttered-with-security-patches sluggish contraption. No speaking of its successful 'successor'.


perixx

[inversekinetix]

partially, my frient, partially :) don't forget to read the rest:


Regarding the speed: I've just read a review of Vista SP1rc1 vs. XP SP3a...

XP is up to 50% faster with games (!) So, if just every 2nd PC-freak would mail 2 or 3 times to Redmond, they might be forced to release directX10 for XP -- and 'hasta la Vista - Vista'! And if ATI and Nvidia finally provided REAL open 3D drivers it might mean: 'hasta la Vista Windows'... but it remains to be seen, if everything works out as they say with the new SP3 for XP; right now, XP is still a cluttered-with-security-patches sluggish contraption. No speaking of its successful 'successor'.


perixx

its all good, it simply comes down to choice doesnt it? if i choose to use xp for things that I can't do on linux, because it takes to long to get it working, theres nothing wrong with that. If linux did all the things I need it to do I would use it exclusively. Im not a programmer nor an IT technician, just a slightly savvy windows user. I don't have the time to devote to learning a new OS and all the headaches involved with it.

[hogwartsnigel]

Perixx,
4 sure learning a new operating system is a drag for some, but then don't you do that with each and every windows re-instaal, install update etc...although much more subtly.
I too considered myself a winDOSE savvy user and didn't really look for alternatives. I look after 6 pc desktops and 1 laptop for my photographer wife and networked home. 5 machines now exclusively Linux Ubuntu, Sabayon and this old laptop (128mb ram 800MHZ) running Freespire.In every instance from the dual cores down to this the improvement in speed and usability has been phenomenal. This laptop couldn't even run XP!!! To update from My 6 Xp Pro Licenses to Vista Ultimate would have been huge...yet I would have blindly done it along with the Office 2007 upgrade from the 2003 Business ed., and the upgraded firewall and anti virus, and configuration software and extra security software, Ip Ghost etc. GAWD!!!!
Sure xp/ vista works out of the box completely at first but in doing so it does so on a vulnerable, non intuitive, generically sterile way that fails to match its media focused blurb. winDOSE has driven hardware upgrades through necessity, software upgrades and purchases because of it weaknesses and dependencies...surely the safe, friendly cost effective linux in any of the chosen Distros is worth the effort of transition, the more people that use linux the more notice and precipitation of products with Linux reference occur.

I've struggled to match software, (Graphic Design) but will continue to learn Gimp to replace photoshop and pray that a flash creative software will be generated. But it is now my principled belief Linux is right on all levels of comparison.

Nigel

[perixx]

Hi hogwartsnigel...


I think you wanted to address your post to 'Inversekinetix' originally -- I fully agree with you except in one aspect and that's gaming/3D support (fast and fully featured). Linux simply can't yet compete in that discipline with Windows. You can read about it everywhere. Of course, that's not a fault of Linux itself but of the graphic hardware vendors having agreements with MS and other vendors - that's for sure.

But, it seems, things are slowly making progress lately...


perixx

[roaldz]

Hi hogwartsnigel...
Of course, that's not a fault of Linux itself but of the graphic hardware vendors having agreements with MS and other vendors - that's for sure.

But, it seems, things are slowly making progress lately...


perixx

I can´t agree with you on that one.
Linux and it´s whole X.org construction makes things terribly slow in IMHO. There´s such a big overhead, this must be fixed before games will really come available for Linux.

Roald

[perixx]

I can't speak for Gutsy - it is buggy as hell (and/or using new graphics drivers with bugs) and won't work on my machine. E.g., I can't even boot into desktop with the live CD.

But Feisty runs really smooth with the proprietary ATI drivers (I'm not using any eye-candy features yet, though).
When I activate composite, THEN I'm experiencing the effects you describe here - but this is just availible in the Xfce desktop and still experimental, if I'm not mistaken.

I don't know which desktop you're referring to.

EDIT: one thing, though... it's really annoying that Xorg's screen settings manager won't give me the choice to have a higher resolution than 1280x1024 - and not more than 85Hz refresh rate here! But you'll hardly complain, if using a TFT.


perixx

[roaldz]

I can't speak for Gutsy - it is buggy as hell (and/or using new graphics drivers with bugs) and won't work on my machine. E.g., I can't even boot into desktop with the live CD.

But Feisty runs really smooth with the proprietary ATI drivers (I'm not using any eye-candy features yet, though).
When I activate , THEN I'm experiencing the effects you describe here - but this is just availible in the Xfce desktop and still experimental, if I'm not mistaken.

I don't know which desktop you're referring to.

EDIT: one thing, though... it's really annoying that Xorg's screen settings manager won't give me the choice to have a higher resolution than 1280x1024 - and not more than 85Hz refresh rate here! But you'll hardly complain, if using a TFT.


perixx
That screen resolution problem of yours can be fixed, you´d have to edit the /etc/X11/Xorg.conf file. Be sure to back it up first. Search for this issue on the forums, I´m sure you can find a lot of threads to help you out, so no need for me to explain everything.

[eye208]

I can´t agree with you on that one.
Linux and it´s whole X.org construction makes things terribly slow in IMHO. There´s such a big overhead, this must be fixed before games will really come available for Linux.
The slow window resize problem in Compiz is unrelated to X.org. It is caused by the way Compiz handles OpenGL pixmaps. See here for more info: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2007-September/027870.html

X.org is not a deciding factor in graphics performance since it offers DRI, i.e. direct access to graphics hardware. Everything else is a matter of quality of display drivers, OpenGL implementations and application optimization. A window manager is just another X application and requires optimization similar to a game graphics engine. In fact you can run any X application in fullscreen mode without a window manager at all.

X.org's architecture is just fine and won't go away any time soon. Compiz will always be a bit slower than Metacity since it requires other applications to draw content into OpenGL textures which are then drawn on screen in a separate step. This overhead can be optimized to a degree, but it will always be there unless graphics card makers develop some hardware overlay feature similar to the one used by XVideo.

[perixx]

...it's really annoying that Xorg's screen settings manager won't give me the choice to have a higher resolution than 1280x1024 - and not more than 85Hz refresh rate here! But you'll hardly complain, if using a TFT.


This refers to the buggy Gutsy Xorg or graphics driver - whatever, in the first place: using 1280x1024 resolution will result in a black frozen screen after some time of booting (where X-server should kick in, usually) - if I'm lucky, I can switch to another virtual screen and do 'startx'. This varies from time to time. In my Gutsy-installation, the xorg.conf has got no monitor-, driver-, screen- and device-section after installation; I simply hadn't got the time yet to investigate.

By standard (if I do nothing), the Live-CD will boot at 1600x1200 (but not offering it in the screen manager); I can also choose 1024x768. It's really unpredictable what will happen when using the Gutsy live-CD; choosing another language at boot-up will also result in stopping at the bash. Only touching NOTHING at boot-up will cause Gutsy to boot into X-server at all - most of the time.

Using Gparted mounts every single partition/drive availible and crashes after each applied action.... BUGS BUGS BUGS.

By the way: Feisty - which hasn't got the problems stated above - won't let me choose 1600x1200 resolution at all. It's live-CD will boot into 1024x768 resolution by default. Also, even IF I edit the xorg.conf of my installed system and add "1600x1200" in each line where appropriate, I only get a higher refresh rate option (85 instead of 70 Hz) for the 1280x1024 resolution.

This MIGHT be linked to the H/V specs in the xorg.conf, but I already edited it to
30-91 kHz / H
50-150 kHz / V
which should be sufficient a bandwith, I think.
Unless I enter a specific mode-line for my CRT, I'll keep having trouble, I suppose.

But setting up resolution and refresh rate REALLY mustn't be such a big issue in the year 2007 anymore, yet with installed proprietary drivers :!::!:

I really don't get it why this is STILL a problem with Linux! One of the most basic and elementary functions every desktop has to support (!!).

Even 'Syllable' - which has only about 100Megs and is only partially functional (and has only a handful of dev's) works like charme, not like **** in this respect...

]:-/


perixx

[ukripper]

XP should be in place of Vista when in versus mode. Vista is an insult to PC game developers.

[roaldz]

XP should be in place of Vista when in versus mode. Vista is an insult to PC game developers.

Why? DirectX10 is MUCH better then older versions.. Right?

[roaldz]

The slow window resize problem in Compiz is unrelated to X.org. It is caused by the way Compiz handles OpenGL pixmaps. See here for more info: http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/xorg/2007-September/027870.html

X.org is not a deciding factor in graphics performance since it offers DRI, i.e. direct access to graphics hardware. Everything else is a matter of quality of display drivers, OpenGL implementations and application optimization. A window manager is just another X application and requires optimization similar to a game graphics engine. In fact you can run any X application in fullscreen mode without a window manager at all.

X.org's architecture is just fine and won't go away any time soon. Compiz will always be a bit slower than Metacity since it requires other applications to draw content into OpenGL textures which are then drawn on screen in a separate step. This overhead can be optimized to a degree, but it will always be there unless graphics card makers develop some hardware overlay feature similar to the one used by XVideo.
I´ve read your link, in short they say the slowness is the cause of the application, it has to redraw. Why would this go so slow then? No offence, but I know other operating systems which are a million times faster at that. This is REALLY the only thing that bugs me about linux.. Well.. And my ardour xrun problem, but that´s another story.....

[ukripper]

Why? DirectX10 is MUCH better then older versions.. Right?

How many developers are releasing Direct X10 version games?

[roaldz]

How many developers are releasing Direct X10 version games?

Are you answering my question with a question?

LOL, sorry, I don´t know..

[ukripper]

Are you answering my question with a question?

LOL, sorry, I don´t know..

Your question was subtle so answer is as you might have expected!

[ryanVickers]

DX 10 is better, right?

in theory, yes, but Vista is such a video/CPU/RAM pig it's stupid to try and run anything on it, you can just run the OS, no apps :p

And believe me, DX10 would and could work perfectly with probably no modifications whatsoever, they're just "forcing" people to get Vista by only releasing DX10 for vista, trust me! XP, was and still is, and would be if DX10 was available for it, the superior gaming platform (when compared to vista ;))

[ukripper]

in theory, yes, but Vista is such a video/CPU/RAM pig it's stupid to try and run anything on it, you can just run the OS, no apps :p

And believe me, DX10 would and could work perfectly with probably no modifications whatsoever, they're just "forcing" people to get Vista by only releasing DX10 for vista, trust me! XP, was and still is, and would be if DX10 was available for it, the superior gaming platform (when compared to vista ;))

i agree for XP to be superior gaming platform if DIRECTX10 is released on that.

Vista eats your GPU just using 3d

[joe.turion64x2]

I can´t agree with you on that one.
Linux and it´s whole X.org construction makes things terribly slow in IMHO. There´s such a big overhead, this must be fixed before games will really come available for Linux.

Roald
Do you realize there are games in Linux already? Haven't tried the Battle for Wesnoth, have you? (available in the repos).

In my experience that makes good use of resources and runs very well as well.

[ukripper]

And also UT3 and quake wars enemy territory is linux ready too!:)

[roaldz]

And also UT3 and quake wars enemy territory is linux ready too!:)

I´m currently playing Quake4, ET Quakewars, and Unreal Tournament 2004, all on ubuntu. Still have to install UT3 on linux, is the installer ready?

Roald

[jbs2212]

I am completly 8 hours new to linux and ubuntu, i have installed it and played with it a little..... I think the concept is great, there needs to be an alternative to vista as it is a complete mem hog and has severe security issues. BUT! for someone like myself who has spent a majority of there computing experience on a DOS based or windows platform, linux seems pretty intimidating. From a performance standpoint, out of the box ubuntu actually takes longer to boot than xp on my system. i cannot tether my wm5 cell phone to the internet on ubuntu as i can on windows (which is the only connection I presently have unfortunatly!) the gui seems to be choppier than windows as well. I know there are plenty of posibilites with ubuntu but MONEY makes the world go round! so with that being said, i don't see it becoming a serious contender with windows with out major sponsership and oranization for r&d. forgive me for my ignorance with regard to the functionallity of ubuntu! im not knocking it per se, but it really does come down to financial backing at this point to win over the average consumer: anybody remember the commodore 64 and apple 2/e war! Apple ended up cornering that market because of its ease of use, not is functionallity where the commodore was the clear winner.

[tommcd]

I am completly 8 hours new to linux and ubuntu, i have installed it and played with it a little..... I think the concept is great, there needs to be an alternative to vista as it is a complete mem hog and has severe security issues. BUT! for someone like myself who has spent a majority of there computing experience on a DOS based or windows platform, linux seems pretty intimidating. From a performance standpoint, out of the box ubuntu actually takes longer to boot than xp on my system. i cannot tether my wm5 cell phone to the internet on ubuntu as i can on windows (which is the only connection I presently have unfortunatly!) the gui seems to be choppier than windows as well. I know there are plenty of posibilites with ubuntu but MONEY makes the world go round! so with that being said, i don't see it becoming a serious contender with windows with out major sponsership and oranization for r&d. forgive me for my ignorance with regard to the functionallity of ubuntu! im not knocking it per se, but it really does come down to financial backing at this point to win over the average consumer: anybody remember the commodore 64 and apple 2/e war! Apple ended up cornering that market because of its ease of use, not is functionallity where the commodore was the clear winner.

Ubuntu has tons of financial backing. Ever hear of Mark Shuttleworth?
1) The reason ubuntu takes longer to boot is likely due to it hanging trying to get an internet connection from your cell phone.
2) The reason ubnutu seems "choppier" may be due to the video driver being used. You may have to install the right driver or tweak your xorg.conf.
3) Liinux is not harder to install or use than windows, it is just different. There is a learning curve to using linux, no question about it. You will have to take the time to do some reading if you want to get the most out of linux.
4) Linux is cooler than windows, and more fun!

[Frak]

Ubuntu has tons of financial backing. Ever hear of Mark Shuttleworth?
1) The reason ubuntu takes longer to boot is likely due to it hanging trying to get an internet connection from your cell phone.
2) The reason ubnutu seems "choppier" may be due to the video driver being used. You may have to install the right driver or tweak your xorg.conf.
3) Liinux is not harder to install or use than windows, it is just different. There is a learning curve to using linux, no question about it. You will have to take the time to do some reading if you want to get the most out of linux.
4) Linux is cooler than windows, and more fun!
Absolutely spot-on.

[1cewolf]

And also UT3 and quake wars enemy territory is linux ready too!:)

Quake Wars runs pretty well on my box...I didn't think that UT3's Linux side was ready to go just yet.

Linux may not have all the games working perfectly just yet, but it's still got a couple of really good native titles. And when there isn't a native version, there's Wine! :guitar:

Still, I'd love to see some solid benchmarks comparing Vista's bloat to Ubuntu's speed and finesse - and not just in gaming. A good set of cross-platform benchmarks could turn some heads, but I don't think there are any such applications out there besides Geekbench. Oh well, I can dream, can't I? :(

[mulder_edu]

Just to point something out. If you want Vista to run half way decent, you need at least 2 GB of ram and I'd advise a dual core. Even with that it tends to run like crap. You need 4 GB of ram to really get it to do anything (Referring to Home Premium and Ultimate, of course).

Oh, and I'm running Gutsy on a P3 933mhz with 512mb of ram. Runs great (I have to use Vista at work though, and I don't particularly enjoy it).

Vista will need realistically 1 GB ram, 128 graphics card, and 1000 MHz processor. I can build a computer with much less specs and have Ubuntu run great.

[baxterdog]

Most mainstream users won't try anything new if they just use email & internet /OR/ need game compatibility. But if they have any kind of software skill (BTW, I'm a hardware EE) they will definitely start migrating to the future of community property. International agreements for open source have opened up some good, honest discussion and should make for more robust and secure utilities.

Just look up 'hidden files' and then name your OS

[perixx]

4) Linux is cooler than windows, and more fun!

I fully agree with the first, but only partly to the second statement, tommcd!

While Linux is surely more fun for tweakers and techies (like myself also), it's not for complete computer-newbies or Jack & Jill in the doze-world.

They usually don't have the will, the knowledge and/or the time to go through the 'learning curve' of Linux - they just want 'things are working' out-of-the-box, like they generally tend to on a pre-installed doze-PC.
Just a personal observation of mine.

And Linux doesn't work 'fully featured' out-of-the-box mostly in many aspects:
- either there are installation problems (e.g. due to conflicts with windows)
- network is not working (be it only because of configuration)
- video needs some serious tinkering
- multimedia problems (codecs lacking)
- hardware problems (sound not working correctly, dvd speed too high, driver support not availible,...)
- or Apps and Games people like too much won't run under Linux (even if they do, there's some effort do invest to install Wine).
Also a personal experience - and the forums are full of many more examples.

Sadly, it's not only the lacking hardware-driver support by the vendors and Linux-specific probs; maybe the greatest problem is people's snuggness to get used to something new - along with the overwhelming opposing promo-force of MS and doze-conform companies... printing some 'Ubuntu'-shirts won't cope with that. We need TV-spots!


perixx

[mmhmm]

Just to point something out. If you want Vista to run half way decent, you need at least 2 GB of ram and I'd advise a dual core. Even with that it tends to run like crap. You need 4 GB of ram to really get it to do anything (Referring to Home Premium and Ultimate, of course).

I Dont really agree with this, ive run ultimate for 6 months on a pentium D 2.8ghz with 1gb of ram, with a 256MB Nvidia 5700 video card... Still ran quite well. wasnt slow.

But has anyone really concidered mac??? With leopard, you can run mac, windows and linux at the same time with almost no flaws. and they look awesome :D

[roaldz]

I Dont really agree with this, ive run ultimate for 6 months on a pentium D 2.8ghz with 1gb of ram, with a 256MB Nvidia 5700 video card... Still ran quite well. wasnt slow.

But has anyone really concidered mac??? With leopard, you can run mac, windows and linux at the same time with almost no flaws. and they look awesome :D

An iMac or MacBook is the ideal hardware these days.. Too bad they are so expensive..:(

[mulder_edu]

Not bad. You still need more than a 1ghz processor though. I guess I just have to deal with people all day who mess it up really bad before I ever see it :)
I agree with your Mac statement :) I also cant afford it though. That's why I'm using Ubuntu on a Toshiba.:lolflag:

I Dont really agree with this, ive run ultimate for 6 months on a pentium D 2.8ghz with 1gb of ram, with a 256MB Nvidia 5700 video card... Still ran quite well. wasnt slow.

But has anyone really concidered mac??? With leopard, you can run mac, windows and linux at the same time with almost no flaws. and they look awesome :D

[mmhmm]

lol, i was on the apple website planning my dream computer. U can buy a mac pro for $AU30,000 lol, 8 core aint bad tho... oh and the 16gb of ram :P

[tommcd]

Sadly, it's not only the lacking hardware-driver support by the vendors and Linux-specific probs; maybe the greatest problem is people's snuggness to get used to something new - along with the overwhelming opposing promo-force of MS and doze-conform companies... printing some 'Ubuntu'-shirts won't cope with that. We need TV-spots!
perixx

Ever see this:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GVOnFdMf0RU
I don't know if this has ever actually been on TV though.

[raddellee]

Survival of ubuntu? wtf linux is taking over (thats a good thing)


ok think about this if the fancy graphic user interface of Microsoft Windows Vista and Microsoft Office 2007 are better than ubuntu's its still no competition for other distros like Elive (linux) who have had windows vista level graphics for about 2-3 years....

every thing windows does is out dated...


also if it is so fancy its is still windows and we all know windows is terrible. And those graphics will crash all the time with the infamous stability of Microsoft.

yours truly raddellee

[perixx]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GVOnFdMf0RU

:} surely not been on european TV - even more on mainstream...



ok think about this if the fancy graphic user interface of Microsoft Windows Vista and Microsoft Office 2007 are better than ubuntu's its still no competition for other distros like Elive (linux) who have had windows vista level graphics for about 2-3 years....

every thing windows does is out dated...

The only problem with that: nobody knows about it, at least not Mrs. Jill and Mr. Jack - and that's what I was talking about ;-|-


perixx

[ukripper]

I´m currently playing Quake4, ET Quakewars, and Unreal Tournament 2004, all on ubuntu. Still have to install UT3 on linux, is the installer ready?

Roald

on IRC I have been told UT3 on linux will be next year. Not sure if it is true.

[Rupertronco]

Just to point something out. If you want Vista to run half way decent, you need at least 2 GB of ram and I'd advise a dual core. Even with that it tends to run like crap. You need 4 GB of ram to really get it to do anything (Referring to Home Premium and Ultimate, of course).

Oh, and I'm running Gutsy on a P3 933mhz with 512mb of ram. Runs great (I have to use Vista at work though, and I don't particularly enjoy it).

The only thing you pointed out or made clear was your lack of experience in using a computer with Vista.

I hate Windows, I have used Linux for the past 5+ years, but will continue to have Windows installed for Autocad. But saying you need 4GB of ram and a core 2 duo to even get it to run well is complete and utter nonsense, this has been proven to be untrue so many times it's sad.If you're going to throw out vague generalizations based on no fact and or limited experience, keep your opinions to yourself.

[webdr]

I've had very little experience with Vista, but from what i have seen thus far, a linux vs vista challenge is not really a challenge at all.

A few friends have Vista, and their brand new hardware / vista combos are much slower than my ubuntu on three year old hardware.

As for eye candy, I have great eyecandy / usability AND STABILITY.

I have posted screencast here:
http://www.markw.net/out2.ogg

At this point, I run my windose games in wine. Ghost Recon, StarCraft, etc.

But mostly,I've been reviewing other game choices like Nexuiz, Alein Arena, Tibia.

I was an absolute monster expert in VB / VBA / MS Office automation. So far, Python, Gambas, and OpenOffice have been great for filling these roles, ALBEIT, I must confess, macro automation of OpenOffice is NOT what I'd like it to be.

But it can only get better right?

-WebDr

[atlfalcons866]

my 1st and only install of vista was slow and had useless trash. It took 2 hours to install vista. It wiped my ubuntu partitions without asking me. I hate how every program that comes with vista has the name windows in it.
windows movie maker
windows scan disk
windows search
windows disk defragmenter

Fed up with windows vista i microwaved the install disc that came with my computer and threw it out.

[escobar_]

Fed up with windows vista i microwaved the install disc that came with my computer and threw it out.

Haha :D

I have Vista as a dual boot and I get very frustrated every time I boot to Vista. It takes forever to load even with a powerful computer and then it asks my permission for everything I want to do. :mad:

[perixx]

I've read this somewhere lately -- shouldn't we rename this Thread into 'Linux vs. ME reloaded' ??¿!¡

|-D

perixx

[tedk89]

yeah, for school I bought this new laptop
t7500 2.2ghz
4gb ram
150gb 7200rpm hd
nvidia 8600m gt w/256mb ram
anyways it is slow and bugs out hangs etc so frequently.... it was horrible.. at home I had a p4 with ok specs and xp ran fine and it was duel boot with ubuntu.. but I mostly used xp as I had no reason to learn ubuntu... Although with the arrival of my new laptop and vista being so bad, it was one of the first things I did and yes I have had bugs and spent hours fixing things... but ubuntu continues to impress me and wow its great to see how fast my laptop can actually be with a decent os..

[ryanVickers]

yeah, for school I bought this new laptop
t7500 2.2ghz
4gb ram
150gb 7200rpm hd
nvidia 8600m gt w/256mb ram
anyways it is slow and bugs out hangs etc so frequently.... it was horrible.. at home I had a p4 with ok specs and xp ran fine and it was duel boot with ubuntu.. but I mostly used xp as I had no reason to learn ubuntu... Although with the arrival of my new laptop and vista being so bad, it was one of the first things I did and yes I have had bugs and spent hours fixing things... but ubuntu continues to impress me and wow its great to see how fast my laptop can actually be with a decent os..

well YEAH!! :p That's incredible-gaming-machine-grade!! lol

I would say get Vista off there ASAP and use Ubuntu with XP in a dual-boot to see what that things really capable of ;)

[Frak]

yeah, for school I bought this new laptop
t7500 2.2ghz
4gb ram
150gb 7200rpm hd
nvidia 8600m gt w/256mb ram
anyways it is slow and bugs out hangs etc so frequently.... it was horrible.. at home I had a p4 with ok specs and xp ran fine and it was duel boot with ubuntu.. but I mostly used xp as I had no reason to learn ubuntu... Although with the arrival of my new laptop and vista being so bad, it was one of the first things I did and yes I have had bugs and spent hours fixing things... but ubuntu continues to impress me and wow its great to see how fast my laptop can actually be with a decent os..
I have a machine with very close to those specs, and I cannot even see how Vista is slow. I even have a 1TB HD on it, pipeline speeds cut to half (not now, I fixed it, Western Digital) and it ran like lightning.

On a regular, normal economy PC, I can see that. But on a machine like that, its almost unimaginable.

[Lord Illidan]

Well, when I compare my laptop to other laptops at my University, even though their laptops are higher specced than mine (double the RAM, 2.4 ghz compared to 1.6 ghz), mine feels faster when using Linux, and they're using Vista. I'm not the only one who sees this, even they see it.

[Hightide]

Linux desktop is beginning slowly to move into the windows desktop environment and has been given a boost with the Dell decision to offer Ubuntu and Walmart to offer linux as a choice in operating systems.

It is only when the corporate world is convinced that there is the robust backup and a much wider linux knowledge base that things will change significantly.

I have a dual boot at work (XP/Ubuntu) and would like to make ubuntu the default. maybe someday soon.
:)

[inversekinetix]

THIS vs THAT on a THIS forum =

[ryanVickers]

if [ LINUX -ge VISTA ]; then
echo "$this_post"
fi
exit
:D

[sujoy]

I would much rather use linux (infact I do ) for all my work than vista and if and when I feel like gaming or VB I will just get XP to boot.

[inversekinetix]

10 FOR n=1 to 10000
20 PRINT "vista rocks ";n;" times more than linux -": POKE 23692,255
30 NEXT n

[bufsabre666]

i like both personally, but prefer linux, but ill say the only time ive ever truely defended windows was agaist mac zealots

i prefer the concept of open source but ive never had problems with windows so i cant speak against it, i have however had tons of problems with mac ((all versions from os7 on through leopard))

so my vote on this thing is neutral for said operating systems it all depends on the purpose you need it for

[big dizzle]

ya, didn't really feel like reading all of the hundreds of posts to see if anyone has posted this already, but if you haven't seen it yet....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xC5uEe5OzNQ

ya...vista sux

linux has had the advantage over windows in terms of functionality for a long time, but now - in my opinion - it has more style than windows. unless they dramatically change their business model i think microsoft won't see the end of the century (although it will hold on for dear life with dirty business tactics)

[jcwmoore]

in the business world XP is king... as much as i hate to admit it... the bottom line is that the business world has put billions of dollars in to windows and all their custom (closed source) software works under windows XP. this is why people will not move to linux or Vista for matter. if it works don't fix it no matter how much it cost to keep it working... in the business world it is cheaper to pay the MS tax than it is to rewrite software :(

[linuxisfree]

Having had experience with all 3 OS's (Ubuntu, XP, Vista), i would definitely have to say that, for personal use, Linux is King! I find it soooo much easier to use. In the workplace, however, XP is still (sadly) ahead of Linux, especially in the realm of Enterprise Content Management (I am an ECM Developer). I know there are open source ECM packages out there... but they are still quite behind those that are being distributed.

On a totally different note... Vista is just PLAIN CRAP (No offense to Vista users)!!! WAAAAAAY too BUGGY, SLOW, HANGS A LOT!!!

[Shinbu-Otaku]

I can't see Ubuntu users suddenly deciding to fork out on MS products because of a fancy GUI. Vista is still windows, it still costs money, apart from eye candy not much appears to have changed.

A lot has changed, DRM on everything, asking if you are sure that you pushed a button, DRM on the thing that asked if you pushed the button, DRM implanted in your brain.....

Vista, in my opinion, is a waste of time, and office 07 is almost just as bad (we are currently testing them at work as we may have to upgrade soon) so i am unbelievably happy that i got rid of windows when i did (back when XP was still young lol)

[(((X)))]

Why not: Ubuntu vs Vista?
Most people here use Ubuntu and most likely used/using Vista

[ryanVickers]

I can't see Ubuntu users suddenly deciding to fork out on MS products because of a fancy GUI.

An addition ,if people like the GUI, it's not that hard to make your Linux look like Vista if you really want to... :p

[Jammy4041]

Speaking of fancy GUIs...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_ImW0-MgR8I

I think Ubuntu is better than vista in this one.

(Compiz Fusion beats Areo hands down.)

But really, I don't like Office 2007. Microsoft need to get rid of this whole ribbon thing

[Sklasko]

A lot has changed, DRM on everything, asking if you are sure that you pushed a button, DRM on the thing that asked if you pushed the button, DRM implanted in your brain.....

I hate having to always play devil's advocate here, but seriously.. Linux users complain that Windows is insecure, but when Microsoft implements UAC among other technologies to make it more secure, Linux users complain that UAC gets in the way. You can't have it both ways.

As a Vista (and Ubuntu) user, I've had no issues with Vista. Nor did I with XP. I'm a smart user who uses Firefox in Windows to avoid viruses, spyware, etc. and that's it. No need to purchase proprietary security software or use free ones. UAC, Windows Defender, Windows Firewall, etc. back me up anyway.

A lot of people in this community would rather drop dead than admit that Ubuntu and other Linux distributions aren't perfect. They would rather just sit around all day and pretend, no matter what the developers do, that they are perfect and will never be surpassed until the end of time. The Linux community comes only second to Mac fanboys when it comes to making completely biased statements and having an elitist attitude.

[Steveway]

I hate having to always play devil's advocate here, but seriously.. Linux users complain that Windows is insecure, but when Microsoft implements UAC among other technologies to make it more secure, Linux users complain that UAC gets in the way. You can't have it both ways.

As a Vista (and Ubuntu) user, I've had no issues with Vista. Nor did I with XP. I'm a smart user who uses Firefox in Windows to avoid viruses, spyware, etc. and that's it. No need to purchase proprietary security software or use free ones. UAC, Windows Defender, Windows Firewall, etc. back me up anyway.

A lot of people in this community would rather drop dead than admit that Ubuntu and other Linux distributions aren't perfect. They would rather just sit around all day and pretend, no matter what the developers do, that they are perfect and will never be surpassed until the end of time. The Linux community comes only second to Mac fanboys when it comes to making completely biased statements and having an elitist attitude.
The way that Microsoft implements it's UAC is utter sh*t.
It's so annoying that Users will either:
1. They get annoyed so much that they will shut it down completly.
2. They get in a clicking-frenzy and most propably click "Yes, okay do that." on a bad message and boom.
Look at the sudo system in Ubuntu and MacOSX, Microsoft tried to copy it but they failed.
The idea may be good, but the implemation isn't.

[ukripper]

As a Vista (and Ubuntu) user, I've had no issues with Vista. Nor did I with XP. I'm a smart user who uses Firefox in Windows to avoid viruses, spyware, etc. and that's it. No need to purchase proprietary security software or use free ones.


So you think Firefox blocks all your windows virii? Is it some kind of joke?
Firefox only blocks scripts running such as with noscript addon. it has nothing to do with port blocking on your machine. for that you do need firewall and also antivirus to protect your windows box from potential attacks through open ports(and security holes) and other programs such as emails.

[karellen]

if you have some patience to tweak it a little Vista it's not that bad. it's pretty usable, of course wih the usual care that must be taken when surfing the net with an Windows OS

[ukripper]

I got my Dell Vostro just 2 days ago which came with VISTA Business has already crashed with BSOD three times. And when doing search for solution the reason was antivirus MCafee which needed update. I was like what the hell? Just antivirus needed an update so why it had to crash my system. My experience with Vista is like hate and hate.

ubuntu works perfect on my vostro. I might run windows XP in VM for few other apps.

[Midwest-Linux]

I got my Dell Vostro just 2 days ago which came with VISTA Business has already crashed with BSOD three times. And when doing search for solution the reason was antivirus MCafee which needed update. I was like what the hell? Just antivirus needed an update so why it had to crash my system. My experience with Vista is like hate and hate.

ubuntu works perfect on my vostro. I might run windows XP in VM for few other apps.

The good news is that you should have downgrade rights to Windows XP Pro. Downgrade rights are for Vista Business and Vista Ultimate. Call Dell and talk to the tech department. The bad news is that you can have either Vista or XP, but not both...unless of course you want to spring for another Windows OS.

I would suggest getting Dell to cooperate in getting XP Pro on that machine and then install Linux Mint 4.0 as a dual boot. While it might seem to be a hassle, its worth the added effort. And of course back up all your files before doing this.

Good Luck.

[ukripper]

The good news is that you should have downgrade rights to Windows XP Pro. Downgrade rights are for Vista Business and Vista Ultimate. Call Dell and talk to the tech department. The bad news is that you can have either Vista or XP, but not both...unless of course you want to spring for another Windows OS.

I would suggest getting Dell to cooperate in getting XP Pro on that machine and then install Linux Mint 4.0 as a dual boot. While it might seem to be a hassle, its worth the added effort. And of course back up all your files before doing this.

Good Luck.

I have already got XP PRO so I dont need to contact DELL about it. I am already running ubuntu on my vostro with no problem. Now for some Bespoke applications i would need XP which I am going to run under virtualBox. I prefer ubuntu to any other distro. Fedora 8 is looking promising though, would have dual boot with fedora soon.

[marufaberlin]

Yeah, ... I think that maybe after the tenth service pack or so vista my be nearly usable. But until now, the thing I see the most of vista is a little blue screen with white writing on it (you probably know it from all the BSOD screensavers that are out there).

[toohottofix]

The *BEST* part of Linux OS is its "TEXT MODE". Very powerful and fun.

[FLPCGuy]

The *BEST* part of Linux OS is its "TEXT MODE". Very powerful and fun.

Agreed. Most Windows users don't know it but almost without exception every Windows command can be run from the command line or an automated script launched by the AT service (CRON). As with Linux, only real geeks know the commands.

Ukripper is right. Besides Firefox, you need a good anti-virus, outbound firewall (pre-Vista), and good third party Spyware software (not MS/Giant). I recommend free AVG, free ZoneAlarm, and free Spybot Search and Destroy plus free Lavasoft 2007 Spyware checker. Update them and run them with every Windows use. If that's too much trouble, ...then stick to Linux.

[rockface]

Windows and Linux users argue about the merits of the Vista platform, they disagree on most things (as if either would have it any other way!).

Reliability, security, ease of use, software, eyecandy, DRM, system requirements and the reative costs involved. But few Linux users and even fewer Windows users talk about one simple fact....

....WHAT INFORMATION DOES VISTA SEND BACK TO MOTHERSHIP-REDMOND WHEN CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET?

A clean install, no crapware, no spyware, no adware, no virus and first boot with no apps running, the network activity meter on my router is going haywire. I leave it for over an hour and it's still broadcating, bleeding packets of information over the web.

If I asked this in a MS forum they would tell me to take my tinfoil hat off and that I needed the new improved MS Kool-Aid.

Does it catalogue the entire contents of my hardrive?
Does it look for illegal MPIAA/RIAA related content?
Does it sift through my pr0n collection for some 3rd-party target advertising company from Nigeria that is now a 'Microsoft Partner'?
Does it search through my bookmarks and browser cache and email to make sure I am not an agent of al-Qaeda?

On the machine in question nothing is stored in NTFS, everything is on ext3 partitions (dual boot). With just the default Vista install why does it need to index for over an hour?. And why when I pulled the netwok cable out it suddenly stopped all disk activity?

Vista, with or without sp1, is not as bad a platform as some Linux users make out. But just what information is passing too and from Microsoft's servers and my PC. I think this goes beyond just keeping users legal and the pirates at bay. I think this is a new money making initiative of data mining they will sell to other companies and governments. Privacy and individual rights be damned and that tinfoil hat don't look too silly now, does it?

[sharperguy]

Does it catalogue the entire contents of my hardrive?
Does it look for illegal MPIAA/RIAA related content?
Does it sift through my pr0n collection for some 3rd-party target advertising company from Nigeria that is now a 'Microsoft Partner'?
Does it search through my bookmarks and browser cache and email to make sure I am not an agent of al-Qaeda?

We can always look at the packets it sends in and out.

I doubt vista does very much of that, but you never know with proprietary software.

What we do know is that Microsoft did put a way to force updates into XP, which they did a while back. People who had disabled all updates still received the update. It also seems reasonable to consider that they might be able target specific updates to specific windows licence keys, meaning they could potentially do anything they want to anybody...

Basically, when you install a proprietary piece of software on your computer, whatever privileges that program has, you have also given to the creators of the program, and since an operating system is in charge of privileges, you have basically given all access rights to Microsoft as long as they have a way to access the computer. The only reassurance that they might not do anything malicious, is that they don't want to for whatever reason, not that they can't.

[jimoz]

I'm running Vista - Ubuntu dual boot. The few times I use Vista,within moments of starting up, internet traffic goes crazy... I've taken everything off Vista except what I need as I had trouble with performance... Im not running a top range laptop- centrino duo, 1gb ram, 128mb nVidia- but I would of thought it should be able to handled it (Vista preinstalled). The very first time I opened it and turned the power on, it crashed within half an hour. The reliability index that provided (I wouldnt have thought theyd ship that with a MS box) got down to 2/10.

The one saving grace about Vista? If I leave it running, it soon crashes and reboots back into Ubuntu.

[jfbilodeau]

Form the DRM perspective, Vista scares the **** out of me. I don't illegally copy music or software, and I don't perform illegal activity on the web.

To me, this is the same as adding breath analyzer in everyone's car or having to present identity just to enter the local mall.

I have a laptop that came preinstalled with Vista. However, Vista never saw the light of day. The first boot I did with the laptop was from a Ubuntu CD, and promptly wiped out all existing partitions on the hard disk.

My only frustration is that Microsoft got paid for a copy of Vista that was never used.

My employer bought the laptop, so I didn't have much say in it. I'm just glad that I was allowed to install my favourite operating system :D

[slolerner]

i've recently started using ubuntu 7.10 ("gutsy gibbon") on a company issued dell d420. so far it's been great. my only issue is with our current vpn solution.. makes it quite difficult to access resources 'inside'. otherwise, i've found the entire ubuntu linux experience far better than any prior windows os. not to slight microsoft.. they've obviously established themselves in the corporate market.

regarding linux' obsolescence at the hands of vista.. that's unlikely because the target demographics are different. i will say that, based on articles in several trade rags and various discussions, microsoft seems to be quietly conceding the impact and popularity of open source products.

i'm no soothsayer, but will safely venture that linux - in all its flavors - will be around for some time.. regardless of what microsoft does. Who knows.. maybe 10 years from now we'll all be using linux on our personal machines and complaining to our respective bosses about how much we prefer the linux interface, flexibility, and security.

[Eclipse.]

Windows and Linux users argue about the merits of the Vista platform, they disagree on most things (as if either would have it any other way!).

Reliability, security, ease of use, software, eyecandy, DRM, system requirements and the reative costs involved. But few Linux users and even fewer Windows users talk about one simple fact....

....WHAT INFORMATION DOES VISTA SEND BACK TO MOTHERSHIP-REDMOND WHEN CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET?

A clean install, no crapware, no spyware, no adware, no virus and first boot with no apps running, the network activity meter on my router is going haywire. I leave it for over an hour and it's still broadcating, bleeding packets of information over the web.

If I asked this in a MS forum they would tell me to take my tinfoil hat off and that I needed the new improved MS Kool-Aid.

Does it catalogue the entire contents of my hardrive?
Does it look for illegal MPIAA/RIAA related content?
Does it sift through my pr0n collection for some 3rd-party target advertising company from Nigeria that is now a 'Microsoft Partner'?
Does it search through my bookmarks and browser cache and email to make sure I am not an agent of al-Qaeda?

On the machine in question nothing is stored in NTFS, everything is on ext3 partitions (dual boot). With just the default Vista install why does it need to index for over an hour?. And why when I pulled the netwok cable out it suddenly stopped all disk activity?

Vista, with or without sp1, is not as bad a platform as some Linux users make out. But just what information is passing too and from Microsoft's servers and my PC. I think this goes beyond just keeping users legal and the pirates at bay. I think this is a new money making initiative of data mining they will sell to other companies and governments. Privacy and individual rights be damned and that tinfoil hat don't look too silly now, does it?

Sorry,we all hate microsoft but none of that is true.lol

[rockface]

Sorry,we all hate microsoft but none of that is true.lol

Eclipse most of my diatribe was a tongue in cheek rhetorical question, you know those that end in a ? and not a !....

....but the part about the indexing, disk activity and my broadband connection going of the charts after a fresh install is all true. These are well known events (Google is your friend etc) and other people have documented these same facts too.

Funny thing is, I don't hate Vista because it's a bad OS. I hate how much control Microsoft through Vista has over my PC and what I can do with it.

And just a parting question Eclipse, if Microsoft was doing all of these things....how would you know?

[hihihi]

Microsoft, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAAAAhahahahaHAHAHAhahAHaha
UHUHUHuhuhUHuhuh
:)

[rockface]

Microsoft, HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAAAAhahahahaHAHAHAhahAHaha
UHUHUHuhuhUHuhuh
:)

Don't hold back hihihi, what do you realy think about Microsoft Windows Vista...?

[Living2007]

Don't hold back hihihi, what do you realy think about Microsoft Windows Vista...?

I personal think that Vista has a great GUI but the UAC really pulls my tounge (even through I dont have Vista)

If you wanted somethine that didn't bother you heaps, and the latest OS, Ubuntu would be to way to go.

[sayakb]

Vista is a resource hog but it has a good UI.. I personally like Aero very much. I wish I had blur and reflection on my laptop (yeah, GMA950 is really bad).. I never kept UAC on.. found it too irritating..

[linux noooob]

vista sucks i can't get anthing to work on it wireless driver is shot and networking is a pain.

[linuxbeatswin]

BTW, my Microsoft wireless mouse actually tracks better in Ubuntu than in Win XP, even with the MS driver installed!! In windows it would frequently meander all over the place, so I stopped using it. In ubuntu it tracks perfectly. This is actually a decent wireless mouse. It just needed a better OS!

Same here. Just one small reason among the many that I switched to Linux exclusively (except for my wife's medical apps that need xp)

[cardinals_fan]

I don't like Aero - the only good thing about Vista is the awesome selection of nature wallpapers.

[Living2007]

I'm a on a 50-50 fence here.

I love the areo experiance, i've even got something similar on my XP computer, but the UAC really _______ess me off because it blocks most things you want to do. But I have got Ubuntu on as a dual boot, I find it very tech, IF you know what you are doing!

[gameryoshi600]

linux of course. vista is so unstable

[Amarsingh0793]

If you like the Vista GUI (like I do) just put a vista theme on ubuntu. It looks cool.

[joe.turion64x2]

Yesterday I realized a machine at work (PIV HT @3.0GHz, 512MB RAM, 160GB SATA, DVD-RW) runs faster from a Fedora 8 LiveCD than from the Vista Home Basic preinstalled.

Thanks.
Joe.

[kamaboko]

I don't like Aero - the only good thing about Vista is the awesome selection of nature wallpapers.

If that's all you know about Vista, then you really don't know much about it. There's more to it than wallpapers.

[sayakb]

This is funny: Yesterday, a batch mate came to me asking me to install Ubuntu on his laptop (dual booting it with Vista Home Basic). He has a Dell Inspiron 1520 with T7700, 2GB RAM, 250GB HDD and NVidia 8600GT. I booted into vista. The desktop appeared and I started working on it for about 5 minutes. Suddenly, I got a popup at the notification area: "Windows has blocked some startup programs". Surprised, I minimized the explorer window and waited for some time. After about 2 minutes, the sidebar appeared (that makes it 7 minutes after booting in) and slowly, Yahoo messenger, and a couple of startup programs loaded. Now this is not the worst part. What he told me was more pathetic. His brother has a Lenovo Y500 with Vista Home Premium. His base score is 5.2, so naturally, it should be considered to be a handsome config. But when he switches on the laptop, he has to leave it there and has to go to complete his chores or something. It takes about 30-35 minuted for vista to load..!! I have used Ultimate on my desktop, but never personally faced this. But there are, infact, many users who have this problem. This is bad, real bad..

[Istonian]

My friend bought a laptop with Windows Vista Premium. He liked it for a while, and then it got slow.

After that it got this nasty virus. I installed linux on his machine and he loved it. It took us a while to get sound working but after that he was hooked. We installed MInt on his lappy because he is a noob and I wanted him to have as minimal problems as possible.

SO personally, I hate VIsta. UAC is very annoying. So is the fact that the only program I used to use XP for doesnt even run on VIsta.

[joe.turion64x2]

I tried Windows Vista Home Basic on my laptop yesterday: considering I had a spare 30GB HDD I thought it would be funny (as a matter of fact I was interested in finding out if a external hardware device I had was Vista compatible).

The installation went quite smoothly (it was a restore dvd: drivers already present, no surprises there), and I must say Vista itself ran very well (I'm sure it was happy with the 2GB of RAM).

It was a short lived installation, however, because after loading the drivers for my hardware thing I got a BSOD that showed itself during start up, making Vista to refuse point blank to work again.

At the end I was glad of getting rid of the darn thing.

Thanks.
Joe.

[hihihi]

i tell u something:
the basic dif between linux/ubuntu and windows/microsoft is:
the one is a commercial platform and the other is not.
the only thing i miss in linux is some good commercial software, like adobe after effects or premiere pro to do my job on my favorite OS. but till now i'll have to switch between both.
BUT you buy windows and it does not work well or has some unexplainable bugs, while ubuntu costs nothing and has some well-explained bugs.
so my personal thing with microsoft is: i think it is ridiculous,
i cannot help myself.
take midi for example:
everyone in shops tells you: OMG, u want to buy a midi-keyboard to run on linux? dificult, no way, blablabla
"linux-compability"..ohohoh
but the trough is: i am having less trouble running midi on ubuntu than on windows. everything is transparent, i can do what ever i want... it works perfect...
under windows my midi experience is that its not running well, some drivers issues, than u go on the net searching for answers and the windows forums are so ODD, there's most the cases no answers to find...
SONAR came as a software-bundle with my midi-keyboard, and it took hours to install their **** and they wont give me their licence-number for unlocking the software....
is this not great?
for the rest iwould recommend everyone: stay away from vista till the year 2010 / 2020.
they need some time to fix things,
hahahahahahah

[Chiko2008]

i tell u something:
the basic dif between linux/ubuntu and windows/microsoft is:
the one is a commercial platform and the other is not.
the only thing i miss in linux is some good commercial software, like adobe after effects or premiere pro to do my job on my favorite OS. but till now i'll have to switch between both.
BUT you buy windows and it does not work well or has some unexplainable bugs, while ubuntu costs nothing and has some well-explained bugs.
so my personal thing with microsoft is: i think it is ridiculous,
i cannot help myself.
take midi for example:
everyone in shops tells you: OMG, u want to buy a midi-keyboard to run on linux? dificult, no way, blablabla
"linux-compability"..ohohoh
but the trough is: i am having less trouble running midi on ubuntu than on windows. everything is transparent, i can do what ever i want... it works perfect...
under windows my midi experience is that its not running well, some drivers issues, than u go on the net searching for answers and the windows forums are so ODD, there's most the cases no answers to find...
SONAR came as a software-bundle with my midi-keyboard, and it took hours to install their **** and they wont give me their licence-number for unlocking the software....
is this not great?
for the rest iwould recommend everyone: stay away from vista till the year 2010 / 2020.
they need some time to fix things,
hahahahahahah

I totally agree!

Ubuntu (http://www.linux-archive.org/ubuntu/)

[ukripper]

It was a short lived installation, however, because after loading the drivers for my hardware thing I got a BSOD that showed itself during start up, making Vista to refuse point blank to work again.

At the end I was glad of getting rid of the darn thing.

Thanks.
Joe.

BSOD is a joke as well.. doesn't give you enough info to track down the root cause.

My antivrus was playing up in vista, BSOD was showing hardware problem. i was like WTF?

[joe.turion64x2]

BSOD is a joke as well.. doesn't give you enough info to track down the root cause.

My antivrus was playing up in vista, BSOD was showing hardware problem. i was like WTF?
The BSOD I got in Vista didn't even allow me to log in using Safe Mode, unless I was to track down which driver was the problematic and prevented it from running (too much work for what it is worth).

And not to say that I am happy with Windows XP (I have MCE in my laptop), because it uses to, out of the sudden, send a BSOD freezing the machine. At first I thought the newly acquired RAM chip could account for the error (as the cryptic BSOD somehow suggested), but a full night running memtest with 0 errors made me think otherwise.

Thanks.
Joe.

[Chiko2008]

:confused:


Ubuntu (http://www.linux-archive.org/ubuntu/)

[Calash]

Microsoft has a nice utility that reads over the .dmp files generated by a BSOD and give you more detail as what is wrong.

Googling stop codes also works well...just like googling Ubuntu problems :)

[hihihi]

at the end its just a matter of preferences and taste, its nearly like comparing a cargo-ship with a sportscar, the discussion will go forever and we will forget forever that the one has wheels and the other not...

[NightwishFan]

I like Vista it is a fun toy. It markets its superfetch when Linux has the same thing via preload.

[hihihi]

what happened?
my old laptop (dualboot win xp / ubuntu) exploded and i got a new one.
a sony vaio with vista installed.
so now i am trying vista.
this is my first experience:
it is nicer than xp. but little slower, whereby my old laptop is much slower than my new one.
-sometimes i also work on macbook pro osx and i find it sometimes awful slow too.
i always had horrible issues on any windows OS, so i do not expect any difference.
I LOVE LINUX and i like ubuntu, because it is very user friendly and completely flexible, personizable, adjustable, u can fix anything, which makes tha issues on ubuntu way less frustrating and daily computer life super-enjoyable.
as MS windows is a commercial platform and we pay for it, we expect everything from them.
and most we expect is not there, it means, they (MS) expect from u to make and sell a product that solves the issue, like anti-virus, firewall, registry-scan (i never get this: why does ms never solved this problem?), etc etc etc, OR they expect from you to buy the software with the solution for your problem.
i need still windows for my profession:
now: i edit videos a lot so i need a good editing software and i am sorry that cinelerra, kino, lives (sucks big-time) and all the other efforts for open-source video-editing did not get so far, but u cannot compare them with adobes premiere pro or and NeVER with aftereffects or avid, so i will still need my windows partition.
that is the only reason.
for the rest, i am on ubuntu, pure data, veejay, MIDI, they work great for my life-video-performance,, MIDI-sound applications for linux are actually cool, entertainment on ubuntu is cool too. encoding AV files is a dream, take mencoder for example: is totally amazing. AND NO VIRUS, NEVER, TILL now.
i scan periodically (all 3 months ) with AVG for linux.
buttom line:
difficult to compare.
its like comparing a stinky potato with a pinguin...
good luck

[KillerMRK]

I kinda like Vista more atm, because it can utilize my broadcom wireless card. :(

[Frak]

I kinda like Vista more atm, because it can utilize my broadcom wireless card. :(
No problems. Everybody has been in this situation in one way or another. Hardware incompatability is the greatest excuse for not using Linux.

BTW, have you tried NDISWrapper?

[34.50]

To start off, I like Vista. I think it's a superb OS. It gets nothing but bad reviews from the press. It feels like there is a news story everyday about it. Well, with blogs and all, I guess it's easy for anyone to say their opinion and have other people "follow" what they say without even giving Vista a shot. Windows Vista just works. For those who say it's a resource hog, you can trim it down to use about 300MB and still have it in perfect working condition.

I don't see what all the fuss is about. Windows Vista works perfectly. Maybe more people should try it out instead of listening to these bogus news stories and blogs.

Most of these problems are due to PEBKAC, and that's really true for any OS.

[imronak]

I also like Vista. It works fine. And about the resistance, its in people's nature.

They faced the same criticism when XP was launched over 98.

I also feel linux users should not condemn and hate vista. Especcially, if you want to introduce someone linux, you should not criticise windows, its like telling people "you are using the worst things in universe", and they get hurt by that, come on, its human tendancy to defend what you have.

Plus, making very huge promises also doesnt help. You are working on linux from min. 1 or 2 years, so you can do anything if you have problem. But new user faces a lot of problem.

For eg. when I first tried linux, i did not know much about swap etc, i did not have internet in that time, so i partitioned my HDD as ext2, and then installed and then the linux would not boot at any cost. but later my friend explained me etc. etc.

There are some migration issues, that they need to be explained. Dont tel people to replace Windows with linux, just advice them to use it as a a dual boot or VM. if they see and find it easy and confy, they will themselves adopt linux. :)

[cardinals_fan]

For those who say it's a resource hog, you can trim it down to use about 300MB and still have it in perfect working condition.
Some of us find 300MB of memory usage unacceptable.

[NightwishFan]

Some of us find 300MB of memory usage unacceptable.

:KS It is a good way to look at things. I begin to understand your views on that.

[zazuge]

I've tried the new office suite aprat from that fancy graphics and that confusing dump toolbox ,nothing worse than it.
and that vista thingy even MS slaves don't want it ,they prefer to stick to XP, well i used XP before moving to linux and i tell you that nothing realy changed it's always the same sick experience and Vista is worser.
I think MS is going down with it, guys you'de better jump ,cause the ship is sinkin down.
how ironic it realy fits as a name , Astalavista Microfost.

[karellen]

I dual boot Vista and Fedora and I didn't have any problems whatsoever with any of them

[PCZahra]

Windows Vista just works.
No it doesn't. I use Vista at work, because we're a Microsoft partner software development company. There are so many issues we have to work around to get things to be actually useful, because Windows Vista just DOESN'T work. Sure it may seem to if you're just using it for office and solitaire, but when it comes to the inner workings, it's full of inconsistencies, quirks, interfaces that were clearly not finished and components that would be obviously useful that are just not there. It's ridiculous.

And yes, XP got a big resistance when it replaced 98, but that's because 98 worked fine and the only thing XP did was cost money, waste memory, slow everything down and "Access Denied". 98 never refused to delete an empty folder because it was "in use".

[zazuge]

f you want to introduce someone linux, you should not criticise windows, its like telling people "you are using the worst things in universe", and they get hurt by that, come on, its human tendancy to defend what you have.
loll ....don't make me Laugh, even before i've heard about Linux ,i've always hated that **** called windope, but i've never imagined that it was intended by MS, so why do i have to withstand that suffering, it's realy hell.

[imronak]

My friend, you dont have to withstand anything. Just introduce it to the new users and let them decide whats good for them.
If they feel its worth their attention they will use it. :)


withstand that suffering, it's realy hell.

[Rrory]

I actually love how utterly awful Vista is, (I've XP) it made my father and myself split our hardrives and here we are on heron.
There is nothing like the prospect of payingfor a bad OS for motivation

[rusty2226]

Well what a day, from starting with windows XP and ending up with loving Ubuntu once again in a heartbeat. For a couple of months I had installed Vista to try it out and wait for 8.04 to come out,(I had broken my 7.10 trying to dual screen). What a pain in the *** that was, Using 2 gigs of ram and Vista ran like garbage and Its Caching left a nasty taste. Then I reinstalled XP(nLited the crap out of it.) Ran great for the rest of the time, then 8.04 came out and I installed and man, I AM IN LOVE! I haven't been so much in Love with an OS since SP2 came out for XP. It ran great out of the box and gave everything I need in one swoop. Wine got all my games up and running (Except for the Elusive Sims 2 {Thats why I have windows still}.) Got my friend hooked to Ubuntu to (He was happy to get 100fps in WOW and Guild Wars.) And we agreed to never look back.

*If this post doesnt make sense, Sorry been up for a while and need the Sleep*

[mshiva]

I like the Aero interface, not very much, but the glass-like look is very pleasing (to me). In fact, I had dreamed of similar theme even before seeing Vista.

[zazuge]

sorry guys i may have said harsh words :-p, but i didn't hate windows just because of pure hatred, that's just the cumul of 10 years of using it (not to talk about resolving friends problems with it too)
so my hatred is for the right cause.
My friend, you dont have to withstand anything. Just introduce it to the new users and let them decide whats good for them.
If they feel its worth their attention they will use it.
don't give me that choice crap you talk about, what choice did i get when i bought my 4 PCs not to say that even mac wasn't available in my country
and Linux didn't come to my hearing until 2 years ago, not before DSL was introduced in my country.
so for the hundred time,and for god's sake don't give me that choice crap.
the OS market made me remmeber my country's democratic election crap
they talk about choice but the winner is known from the start.
and they keep peolpe ignorent of democratic debate and citizenship.
It's the same with that OS crappy market they talk as if you're free to chose but you get your PC pre-installed with that messy OS and if you try to put something else, your hardware wouldn't support it.
and if your country doesn't have a large bandwidth.
thus you couldn't find software you need, just CDs that work on that crappyOS.
Even the media the Mags the TV they talk only about M$ as if the mighty lord gates created IT and the net himself.

[NightwishFan]

My friends zune was "unsupported" on his Windows Vista. My webcam and some other devices are too, but they work on Ubuntu.

[Frak]

My friends zune was "unsupported" on his Windows Vista. My webcam and some other devices are too, but they work on Ubuntu.
The Zune needs a special driver installed with the Zune Media Player. My Vista Ultimate automatically downloaded it via Update when it saw the device.

Also, the Zune currently only works on Windows XP/Vista. The only other way to use on other platforms is via Jailbreaking, and all the available ways are dangerous. I've bricked one of my Zunes already.

[NightwishFan]

He returned Zune and got another mp3 player. It really refused to work even with the updates, I found that odd.

[99bluefoxx]

He returned Zune and got another mp3 player. It really refused to work even with the updates, I found that odd.
thats why you go for a player thats known to work well[i choose my sansa e270. works in msc in *twitches* windows, mac or *smiles* linux :) paid only $99CDN as well XP]

[Ioky]

Sorry to say that, but two of my Pro just remove windows from their computer and installed Linux, because they want something "better" than Xp. Guess what, they get it. Vista do help a lot in this case though. (in term of leading people to Linux)

[Jiraya]

Sorry to say that, but two of my Pro just remove windows from their computer and installed Linux, because they want something "better" than Xp. Guess what, they get it. Vista do help a lot in this case though. (in term of leading people to Linux)

LOL!

[cneri]

Are youkidding?? Survive? Man I think that bill did himself a disservice with Vista. I cant even beging to describe how awfull Vista is even after SP1!!!!! No man, I think that more than surive Vista drove even more people towards Linux, So you know at the office no less than 20 people took Vista off and installed Ubuntu after they saw it in my laptop. I was the fisrt to take it off as it is a piece of S..T! while looking to get it fixed or at least improved I found Ubuntu AND THERE IS NO TURNING BACK!!!!!!

[Club17]

speaking of fancy graphics... check this link out!

http://www.linuxsoft.cz/screenshot_img/53-a.jpg

And this one:

http://www.screenlets.org/images/c/cf/69013-cap.jpg

[aimpau]

I installed XP in a:

HP Omnibook 900 made in 1999
P3 300Mhz (?)
128 MB RAM
4 MB video ATI chip

guess what? it worked but pretty much left the notebook hotter than the toaster and literally disabled the "FN" modes.

I tried Xubuntu next....

It ran like it was so brand new and fixed the FN keys. XUBUNTU 7.10, released decades after the manufacture date of my old notebook, is so compatible and sleek looking, i can even run the compositors + ff + gimp all under 90MB of RAM..

Now tell me, what's the possibility of MS doing that to your notebook?

All you need to do now is to check the sys requirements of vista and check your money.

[nicedude]

Post made me laugh as since with Vista it will cost you $300US to see the fancy graphics and with Ubuntu it will cost you $0US to blow it away I think Ubuntu isn't going anywhere. First thing everyone I show my Ubuntu laptop and spin the 3D cube while playing a movie on each face of course ( all without stutters ) usually I then have to grasp their jaw and lift it off the floor.

Funny post though and thanks for the laugh.

[Jordanwb]

I have tried Vista and I can say I like Ubuntu a lot better. Mainly because it's free.

[JeevesBond]

Windows Vista just works. For those who say it's a resource hog, you can trim it down to use about 300MB and still have it in perfect working condition.

Well, does it 'just work' or do you have to tweak it? This post contradicts itself.

As for 'hating' Vista, one of the design goals was to 'f*ck with Samba (http://www.twit.tv/floww14)', i.e. stop Windows from networking with Linux. This alone (without even starting on all the DRM (http://news.cnet.com/8301-10784_3-9946780-7.html?tag=nefd.pop) crap (http://www.cypherpunks.to/~peter/vista.pdf)) is enough to make Gnu/Linux users believe Vista is the worst thing ever.

We bash Microsoft because they do (http://www.theinquirer.net/gb/inquirer/news/2007/11/26/microsoft-intel-derailed-olpc) evil (http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/11/01/1331202) things (http://www.linux.com/articles/61481) (to individuals (http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2007/01/24/Mixup) as well (http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20060123132416703)) and keep trying to destroy (http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/05/14/0018242) or distort (http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20080511115151164) Free software (http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20071008205138925). Our opinion is formed over years of suffering (http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=456578&cid=22447706) Microsoft's crap (http://blogs.freecode.no/isene/2008/04/09/quick-report-from-the-norwegian-ooxml-demonstration/), observe the same as us for a few years and you'll come to the same conclusions.

[TorqueyPete]

Linux Ubuntu does what I need it to do. I converted to it from XP. Why would I pay for Vista?
My works manager, (system admin) even runs Ubuntu on his Xbox! :guitar:

[gsmanners]

tl;dr

Linux is a kernel for an OS, and Vista is kernel+desktop+ton of other stuff you don't need.

[hihihi]

i keep coming back to this thread, maaaannn

again, i think that comparing those both OS's does not really make sense, is like comparing a potato with a weasel...

the things you really could compare:
security-issues,
privacy (!!!),
freedom
transparency

open-source is not about gratis software, it is about an idea / vision, transparent software, sharing work and experience, etc...
and when you choose for linux, you choose for an aesthetically beautiful OS, fast and solid, that forms the platform for the open-source vision.

hating vista makes no sense, MS never said any different, than what they really are: a commercial platform for commercial software / ideas.
it's a marketplace.

and everyone keeps forgetting / not mentioning APPLE,
they are like MS, a commercial platform, but look to iTunes, iPod, and more agressive: iPhone, this is really evil, so to speak, and shows their real visions that could describe the future,
the maschine you buy is not yours and does not allow you to do everything, unless they want you too.

I THINK IT'S TIME FOR A NEW THREAD:
LINUX VS COMMERCIAL OS

[scotcella]

I THINK IT'S TIME FOR A NEW THREAD:
LINUX VS COMMERCIAL OS

Amen to that! I agree...

[r76]

I THINK IT'S TIME FOR A NEW THREAD:
Great. Then why dig up this old one?? :razz:

(that's just a cop-out, if I was hard-core I would be deep into the 217 pages of this thread by now)

[curtis]

Yes GNU/Linux is far ahead of what Windows Vista can offer.

Ubuntu has more features and is more stable than Windows Vista - plus you get the benefits of having an open source system which can easily be audited to see how it works.

I would not trust an binary operating system my self.

[VitaLiNux]

Microsoft Windows Vista and Microsoft Office 2007 are on the horizon, including new fancy graphic user interfaces... is Ubuntu Linux likely to survive against such strong competition?

John

To me it's not that important how awful may look a car as long as it has a POWERFUL ENGINE under the hood.:guitar:

I hope you understand what I mean.

[TorqueyPete]

comparing a potato with a weasel...



:lolflag: PMSL!!



To me it's not that important how awful may look a car as long as it has a POWERFUL ENGINE under the hood.:guitar:

I hope you understand what I mean.

I like your analogy! It's why I bought a Vauxhall cavalier 2.5L V6!
Oh yes, and Ubuntu. ;)

[ukripper]

:lolflag: PMSL!!





I like your analogy! It's why I bought a Vauxhall cavalier 2.5L V6!
Oh yes, and Ubuntu. ;)

i am glad ubuntu is bit more environment friendly than your car and doesn't drink petrol. :lolflag: just jokin mate!

[jnw222]

tooooo fancy and eye-hurting though i loved it

[luxerama]

Been trying to get Vista professional working on my Acer laptop and it kept messing up. I was lucky because I got my Vista free from MSDN which meant that I didn't have to fork out the 100 odd quit, otherwise I would have been furious. Anyways I have tried to install Vista for nearly three days now but in the end I though this is just not worth it and installed Ubuntu. What a pleasure, within 30 minutes I had a fully functioning laptop with the built in card reader, built in web cam, built in speakers and mic and the most amazing built in wireless with WPA2, all working out of the box. And i didn't have to even move a finger. Sat next to the laptop on my PC browsing the net whilst the Ubuntu installer did all the hard work. I am absolutely over the moon. Thanks to you all this is the first time that I actually favor Linux over Windows on a laptop. All that has to be done now is to work on the energy saving features, which is why I was trying so hard to install Vista because that would have given me an extra half an hour (also more than XP would have given me). Oh and my Apple-Nike+ is going to suffer.........

[doomstone]

I must say, i have been trying to convert to linux for a long time.
But back then where i a gamer, and WoW diden't run good enoth for my level of playing back then :( and rebooting all the time made me just go with Windows.

Today, i don't game anymore, but sadly am i a C# programmer, 2 year student.
I must say mono is great, but it is just not as good at the .NET framework :(

A tired thing that keeps me in windows is that is almost take a master degree in linux to install a simple program :(

A little think i have thoug about, is that alot of Windows users that come to linux like the windows setup and are use to it, and i know you with ease can install that theme on gnome, so maby ubuntu should have a switch in the installer, "Install with windows theme" or something like that :D
Realy new users might not have it just so easy with it as many of you guys have :D

Last, i must take my hat off for Ubuntu, it have REALLY made it easyer to transfere to linux.

[edfish]

lol

[Toshibawarrior]

People think that Windows and Microsoft in general are more user-friendly and reliable just because they're pay-to-use programs...nothing can be farther from the truth...

So basically what I'm saying is... LINUX FOR THE WIN!!! :p

[THEDARKNESSHASCOME]

People think that Windows and Microsoft in general are more user-friendly and reliable just because they're pay-to-use programs...nothing can be farther from the truth...

So basically what I'm saying is... LINUX FOR THE WIN!!! :p


the more reliable and user friendly is an illusion provided by the man. He knows that you have grown up with windows and that you will most likely use it till the day you die so he charges you for it. By making it illegal to get the free software rather then paying for it. So for new ubuntu users and past windows users the transfer is rather challenging to them. But don't let the man get you down!!!!!:lolflag:

[ukripper]

Today, i don't game anymore, but sadly am i a C# programmer, 2 year student.
I must say mono is great, but it is just not as good at the .NET framework :(


That is why we are taught in Univeristies now a days, use right tool for right job but not same tool for every job. A good programmer doesn't stick to one language and surrender itself to be called as one trick pony.

Being a developer i mainly use Java but if C++ gives me better options (better tool) to develop I use that or even python.

My suggestion to you is don't restrict your limits. Expand them with learning more programming languages.

[CrazyArcher]

For sure Linux is more reliable, but as for user friendliness - Win wins here. Linux has a much steeper learning curve.

[ukripper]

For sure Linux is more reliable, but as for user friendliness - Win wins here. Linux has a much steeper learning curve.

how?

[fiddledd]

For sure Linux is more reliable, but as for user friendliness - Win wins here. Linux has a much steeper learning curve.

IMHO it is because most people have to unlearn Windows. It would be interesting to give a group of people that never used a Computer before PCs with Linux and Windows pre installed, and see which group became more proficient in a set time period. I don't know which would come out on top, but it would an interesting experiment. It would also settle once and for all which is the more user friendly.

[doomstone]

That is why we are taught in Univeristies now a days, use right tool for right job but not same tool for every job. A good programmer doesn't stick to one language and surrender itself to be called as one trick pony.

Being a developer i mainly use Java but if C++ gives me better options (better tool) to develop I use that or even python.

My suggestion to you is don't restrict your limits. Expand them with learning more programming languages.

I'm not sayint that i only do C#, I also do C++ and php :D
But my school only uses C#, so all projects have to be returned in C# and so on...

[jeremyswalker]

IMHO it is because most people have to unlearn Windows.

I have to say, I whole-heartedly agree with you. I think that why most people think Linux and UNIX is hard to learn is because the world has essentially grown up with Windows as the default desktop OS. My kids will not have this problem, as my entire house is Linux. Ubuntu on my desktop, Ubuntu on the kids desktop, and Ubuntu on my laptop. I am extremely impressed with Ubuntu. The only thing I have considered is putting Fedora on one of my computers, to learn the guts of a more commercial-like OS. However, at the moment, a customized Ubuntu is my desktop of choice. Unfortunately, I still need access to Windows for school (e.g. Visual Studio). So, I have it set up in a virtual environment.

P.S. This is not to say that Windows is horrible. It is a good OS. Although personally, I prefer Linux. It is just the company that designed it that I'm unhappy with.

[Toshibawarrior]

You're all correct here...except the dude who said windows is more user-friendly...it may be more user-friendly because we've all used it for years, and people feel safe just because they paid for it...

People tell me that Linux is crap because is free...and those same persons come to be asking for advice on how to repair and fix software problems on their machines...so...who's more reliable and user-friendly? :p

Anyways, I love Linux and even though I used Windows for 10+ years, I'm never going back...EVER! ;) But that's just my opinion :p!

[rockface]

IMHO it is because most people have to unlearn Windows. It would be interesting to give a group of people that never used a Computer before PCs with Linux and Windows pre installed, and see which group became more proficient in a set time period. I don't know which would come out on top, but it would an interesting experiment. It would also settle once and for all which is the more user friendly.

Microsoft has conditioned the populace around the world to believe that 'Windows' is the computer and that big blue 'E' is the internet.

This is then reinforced through websites and magazines. Microsoft has spent billions on this process, and it worked.

They are the 'Saatchi & Saatchi' of the IT world. They are a marketing company, not a software company.

[ukripper]

I'm not sayint that i only do C#, I also do C++ and php :D
But my school only uses C#, so all projects have to be returned in C# and so on...

Well in that case you have to use .NET framework as your uni demands for exams as well. Mono is only good if you are using it in development environment not very effective in educational as your coursework depends on certain criteria to be met for uni's specification.

[CrazyArcher]

It's not about unlearning Windows. Compare the amount of CLI-work in Linux to one in Windows...

[Canis familiaris]

It's not about unlearning Windows. Compare the amount of CLI-work in Linux to one in Windows...

People in this forums recommend CLI tasks because it makes easier to help.
Otherwise you hardly need to use CLI.

[rockface]

It's not about unlearning Windows. Compare the amount of CLI-work in Linux to one in Windows...

And the Microsoft propaganda machine strikes again. Just like Vista most modern Linux distributions have a GUI for the install and configuration procedure. In most cases a LiveCD can be provided to make sure your hardware is compatible in the first place.

Just about everything in Hardy Heron has a GUI as well as a console variant.
The 'as well as a console variant' is important because you have two vectors to solve a problem. If the GUI fails in Windows you are toast. What, insert Windows CD to perform a system repair or 'in-place upgrade'?

As Anurag_panda has said, typing in a command (or cut and paste) is easier to describe than to go through all the damn menus to perorm the same task.

[CrazyArcher]

There's no propaganda factor here, I'm talking from my own experience and nothing else. The only time where I had to use CLI in Windows was when I wanted to setup some net things and to track IP-addresses and stuff. In Ubuntu, on the contrary, all the problems I had had to be solved by CLI commands. Note, that I'm not saying that I have problems with CLI, but when we are talking about user-friendliness, it is a factor.

[rockface]

There's no propaganda factor here, I'm talking from my own experience and nothing else. The only time where I had to use CLI in Windows was when I wanted to setup some net things and to track IP-addresses and stuff. In Ubuntu, on the contrary, all the problems I had had to be solved by CLI commands. Note, that I'm not saying that I have problems with CLI, but when we are talking about user-friendliness, it is a factor.

Point taken. However I could give Ubuntu or PCLinuxOS to my parents and they would have less trouble with it than with Vista. They would also have no need for a CLI as the GUI based tools are all they would require. No anti-virus or anti-spyware to keep updated. No having to defrag or clean up after you uninstall software.

The upkeep of Windows should not be considered user friendly. I think people have come to accept computers as unstable and temperamental because of Microsoft's flaws.

[NightwishFan]

CLI is like a shortcut to pointing and clicking. :D

Personally I prefer to press f12 to pop down my yakuake terminal, and type sudo mount -o loop /home/user/cd.iso /media/cdrom0 rather than use a gui program like gmountiso for doing so. Ok bad example..

I pop down yakuake with f12 and then type eject rather then needing bend down and reaching for that little button below my dvd drive. :D

I hate bending. :mad:

Cheers :D

[YaroMan86]

How could anyone even imagine comparing Linux with Windows... especially a crime like Windows Vista? (And I say that as someone who has actually used Vista for several months.)

[Toshibawarrior]

How could anyone even imagine comparing Linux with Windows... especially a crime like Windows Vista? (And I say that as someone who has actually used Vista for several months.)

Like I've said before...this is mutiny!...

Vista sucks...and I KNOW because i used it for 8 months...UGH!

[NightwishFan]

Xp is a crime. After using 98 Me 2k Xp Vista and about every linux distro under the sun I can say the worst is Xp. At least ME and 2k had sane system requirements and Vista has a shred of defense from intrusion. Ill xp rant elsewhere, I just think Vista is better. :D

Ok one shot at Vista, I like how if you have a integrated graphics card vista needs 60-80% of my 2 core cpu just to function with aero. How can an OS idle (no programs or anything) around 60%? Kwin effects with xrender get better performance than that.

[cardinals_fan]

There's no propaganda factor here, I'm talking from my own experience and nothing else. The only time where I had to use CLI in Windows was when I wanted to setup some net things and to track IP-addresses and stuff. In Ubuntu, on the contrary, all the problems I had had to be solved by CLI commands. Note, that I'm not saying that I have problems with CLI, but when we are talking about user-friendliness, it is a factor.
What exactly is a "user-friendly" app? Does it jump up to shake the user's hand?

[screaminj3sus]

What exactly is a "user-friendly" app? Does it jump up to shake the user's hand?

Alright here is an example of some ways consider windows vista more user friendly then ubuntu, I am open minded and like Ubuntu and vista.

In windows vista to change my mp3 ripping settings (I'm even ignoring that first you have to isntall lame and the gstramer multiverse)In Windows media player you move a slider determining the bitrate, in Sound juicer you have to manually edit a gstreamer string. It's ridiculous.

Also, In vista you can easily use the gui to put icons on the desktop like trash and computer, in ubuntu/gnome you must use the terminal or alt-f2 and open gconf-editor and manually do it.


Windows isn't perfect, but neither is linux, I'd like to see some more open objective people on these forums.

[NightwishFan]

Soundjuicer isnt the only application. I like k3b and kaudiocreator. I believe they allow you to edit bit-rate. I dont use mp3 though. Also, can you not just make a shortcut to the trash folder? Forgive me I havent used gnome since Hardy first came out.

[screaminj3sus]

Soundjuicer isnt the only application. I like k3b and kaudiocreator. I believe they allow you to edit bit-rate. I dont use mp3 though. Also, can you not just make a shortcut to the trash folder? Forgive me I havent used gnome since Hardy first came out.

Yeah my example is really more a gnome problem but by default comparing vista to Ubuntu it still shines true.

[TheUnabeefer]

I haven't really liked Windows since 3.1.1 (WfW FtW!)

I have been using Linux for quite a long time... pretty early on, kernel 1.2.14 or something like that, and I personally like Linux better than Windows. I've used most/all versions of Win, between dual-booting and various tech jobs, and I hated all of them.

I just recently bought a new laptop with Vista on it, planning on putting Linux on it. (I was using Gentoo on my desktop PC, and was thinking ubuntu for the laptop) For the hell of it, I decided to use Vista for a week and see how it went.

I had my friend run his Geek Squad tools on it to remove all the nonsensical pre-installed crap off of it and speed a few things up. (One of the only guys I know from the Geek Squad who I would EVER trust with my computer, so I knew he would do me right) It's been a few months now, and I have yet to remove Vista. Partly, because there are a few apps I use that are Windows related and don't like Wine, but mostly because I don't find it to be all that bad.

Sure, it asks me for admin priveledges every so often... so does Ubuntu (which I have since installed on my desktop, instead of Gentoo) I have encountered systems that came wth Vista pre-installed, and it's slow as molasses, but mine is rather fast, perhaps due to the Geek Squad hacks. But overall, I haven't had much gripe with it.

I still think Linux is better, but I really don't see what people have against Vista... and this is coming from someone who has used and hated every other version of windows since 95.

[NightwishFan]

I perfectly agree (to the guy above the guy above me). It is fun to point out flaws in an OS made by such a horrible company like Microsoft. When I want something fixed on Linux I can get word out to the makers themselves.

It is like the Matrix. So many people are so horribly dependent on Windows that they will argue and fight to protect using it.

I have no problem with people who use Windows, but its so restricting feeling. It also tends to abuse using the disk too much, which is slow.

[screaminj3sus]

I haven't really liked Windows since 3.1.1 (WfW FtW!)

I have been using Linux for quite a long time... pretty early on, kernel 1.2.14 or something like that, and I personally like Linux better than Windows. I've used most/all versions of Win, between dual-booting and various tech jobs, and I hated all of them.

I just recently bought a new laptop with Vista on it, planning on putting Linux on it. (I was using Gentoo on my desktop PC, and was thinking ubuntu for the laptop) For the hell of it, I decided to use Vista for a week and see how it went.

I had my friend run his Geek Squad tools on it to remove all the nonsensical pre-installed crap off of it and speed a few things up. (One of the only guys I know from the Geek Squad who I would EVER trust with my computer, so I knew he would do me right) It's been a few months now, and I have yet to remove Vista. Partly, because there are a few apps I use that are Windows related and don't like Wine, but mostly because I don't find it to be all that bad.

Sure, it asks me for admin priveledges every so often... so does Ubuntu (which I have since installed on my desktop, instead of Gentoo) I have encountered systems that came wth Vista pre-installed, and it's slow as molasses, but mine is rather fast, perhaps due to the Geek Squad hacks. But overall, I haven't had much gripe with it.

I still think Linux is better, but I really don't see what people have against Vista... and this is coming from someone who has used and hated every other version of windows since 95.

Agreed, I built my own system so fresh install of vista. On my system honestly, vista is faster than ubuntu and feels more responsive, it uses more resources but it feels a lot faster so I have no qualms with that. Ubuntu and vista both take 35-40 seconds on a cold boot to the desktop for me. I haven't had any problems with vista or ubuntu stability/speed wise really.

Most people that bash vista have ignore facts, haven't even gave it a try or have some sort of extreme hatred of Microsoft or a case of fanboyism. Linux's main advantage against windows in my book is customization, customize, customization.

It also really gets on my nerves when linux users bash UAC, because ubuntu has the same sort of system in place, very hypocritical.

[NightwishFan]

UAC is a good start. My Puppy Linux from when I hit enter to desktop is 6 seconds. :D

As for Ubuntu, mine boots in about 25 seconds to gdm, slightly faster for Kdm.

[rockface]

Agreed, I built my own system so fresh install of vista. On my system honestly, vista is faster than ubuntu and feels more responsive, it uses more resources but it feels a lot faster so I have no qualms with that. Ubuntu and vista both take 35-40 seconds on a cold boot to the desktop for me. I haven't had any problems with vista or ubuntu stability/speed wise really.

Most people that bash vista have ignore facts, haven't even gave it a try or have some sort of extreme hatred of Microsoft or a case of fanboyism. Linux's main advantage against windows in my book is customization, customize, customization.

It also really gets on my nerves when linux users bash UAC, because ubuntu has the same sort of system in place, very hypocritical.

'Most people that bash vista have ignore facts, haven't even gave it a try or have some sort of extreme hatred of Microsoft or a case of fanboyism.'

I paid for Vista. I used Vista before sp1 was available. I used Vista after installing sp1. I have had it patched up with the latest official updates and drivers. Clean install with no cruft from third parties either.

I cannot ignore the fact that Vista just does not work for me. It is slow and cumbersome, not even vlite can save it. No amount of tweaking or tinkering aleviates my concerns about just how much in the way of resources it consumes.

I am not an Ubuntu 'fanboi' or any other distro or operating system 'fanboi'. I just want the OS to stay out of my way, Vista is just too much in your face.

I explained these reservations about Vista on an Microsoft forum only to be told 'I just don't get it' and 'Vista is the future, get used to it'.

I have bought it. I have used it extensively...me not want!

[armageddon08]

Ubuntu does not need to fear Vista's eye-candy gui.....especially as it is open source. The pace at which Ubuntu is being developed is awesome and in a few years all 91% comps which right now are suffering from Windows will be livin happily with Ubuntu.......just a few improvements and Ubuntu's gonna rule the world.

Talking of eye-candy.....Compiz-fusion provides the most advanced eye-candy of all. Imagine what'll happen if EnlightenmentE17 meets compiz-fusion.

[Toshibawarrior]

in a few years all 91% comps which right now are suffering from Windows will be livin happily with Ubuntu.......just a few improvements and Ubuntu's gonna rule the world.


Right On!!! ;):p!!! That's what I've been telling my "Windows-snobs" friends...:p

[hihihi]

we are on holidays

[L815]

I like Ubuntu and Vista equally. Though I spend a lot of time on Vista because of my courses require Visual Studio work & Compatibility with Office 2007.

Now, one thing I have to admit is Aero is very nice. I think is sleek and fits very well throughout the system. Mostly the glass is what I like best. Not to mention firefox looks amazing with the "Glasser" plugin, which is only for Windows.

I've had similar looks with Compiz and Emerald, but Aero is just too crisp and clean in comparison (compiz/emerald is very close though)

But I am liking kde 4 a lot. I think it will be a huge turning point when final is released. Customizing is great, but I'd rather spend my time doing other things, which is why Vista has an advantage off the bat with looks for me, but kde4 will probably fix this for Linux.

Only my opinion, I'm trying to be as unbiased as possible!

[Vorian Grey]

I cannot ignore the fact that Vista just does not work for me. It is slow and cumbersome, not even vlite can save it. No amount of tweaking or tinkering aleviates my concerns about just how much in the way of resources it consumes.


Me neither. I gave it more than a fair try and it simply had too many problems. What ticks me off is if you post about the problems you are having with Vista, the shrills will post saying either you are lying or you are a Mac or Linux fanboi. I've had that happen to me.

Some people don't have any problems with Vista and them some of us have a bunch of problems. Why that is I don't know. It does happen, however.

[khelben1979]

I think Linux will survive the competition with flying colours! But... here in Sweden Microsoft rulez, which means that if Microsoft releases new products, most people will buy it and use it.

I myself like Open Office and I will continue on using it when I need a well written office suite.

[articpenguin]

My aunts computer has vista with 2GB ram.
My computer has 1GB of ram with mandriva and still loads more fast than vista.

I have an amd x2 be-2350 so maybe its more powerful i dont know. She has a pentium dual core e2180

[ukripper]

My aunts computer has vista with 2GB ram.
My computer has 1GB of ram with mandriva and still loads more fast than vista.

I have an amd x2 be-2350 so maybe its more powerful i dont know. She has a pentium dual core e2180

You got things mixed up. Loading up doesn't only depend on RAM it depends on many factors including OS. So comparison with 1GB and 2gb during booting is useless. If you really want to test it then do it on same machine and dual boot on same drive with fresh installs of both OS and then do your loading up tests. That would give you the aprrox. results you are after!

[Amarsingh0793]

I have Vista and Ubuntu on the same computer. I bought the computer a few days ago.

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4 GHz
3GB RAM
NVidia 8600GS
600GB Harddisk
Acer 22" Widescreen TFT Monitor

At the moment, I have had 6 BSODs from Vista (that's when I click shutdown) and at the moment I am not impressed with it. It is too slow (and I consider my specs to be pretty good if not excellent) and takes very long to shutdown and log in. I like the theme and design of Vista, but Compiz uses up less CPU and the effects are awesome.

Vista - Boot Time: 12 seconds :KS

Now for Ubuntu,

It took me just 10 minutes to install Ubuntu and I had no problems at all ever since installation. Everything is running smoothly (and no BSODs :)) and I'm happy with it. The only problem I had was that thing befofre it boots where it says "Undefined Video Number **", but an update has seemed to fix that issue :).

Ubuntu - Boot Time: 6 Seconds :KS

This is just my personal experience with Vista but I hope all of you guys have had a better experience :)

[rockface]

I have Vista and Ubuntu on the same computer. I bought the computer a few days ago.

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4 GHz
3GB RAM
NVidia 8600GS
600GB Harddisk
Acer 22" Widescreen TFT Monitor

At the moment, I have had 6 BSODs from Vista (that's when I click shutdown) and at the moment I am not impressed with it. It is too slow (and I consider my specs to be pretty good if not excellent) and takes very long to shutdown and log in. I like the theme and design of Vista, but Compiz uses up less CPU and the effects are awesome.

Vista - Boot Time: 12 seconds :KS

Now for Ubuntu,

It took me just 10 minutes to install Ubuntu and I had no problems at all ever since installation. Everything is running smoothly (and no BSODs :)) and I'm happy with it. The only problem I had was that thing befofre it boots where it says "Undefined Video Number **", but an update has seemed to fix that issue :).

Ubuntu - Boot Time: 6 Seconds :KS

This is just my personal experience with Vista but I hope all of you guys have had a better experience :)

And I tried to make Vista work with a quarter of the system you possess?
*scratches head*

[fiddledd]

I have Vista and Ubuntu on the same computer. I bought the computer a few days ago.

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4 GHz
3GB RAM
NVidia 8600GS
600GB Harddisk
Acer 22" Widescreen TFT Monitor

At the moment, I have had 6 BSODs from Vista (that's when I click shutdown) and at the moment I am not impressed with it. It is too slow (and I consider my specs to be pretty good if not excellent) and takes very long to shutdown and log in. I like the theme and design of Vista, but Compiz uses up less CPU and the effects are awesome.

Vista - Boot Time: 12 seconds :KS

Now for Ubuntu,

It took me just 10 minutes to install Ubuntu and I had no problems at all ever since installation. Everything is running smoothly (and no BSODs :)) and I'm happy with it. The only problem I had was that thing befofre it boots where it says "Undefined Video Number **", but an update has seemed to fix that issue :).

Ubuntu - Boot Time: 6 Seconds :KS

This is just my personal experience with Vista but I hope all of you guys have had a better experience :)

Just for balance, and to respond to your last sentence. Yes, I have had a much better experience with Vista.

No BSOD
No Lockups
No stability or performance issues
Boot time 35 secs (not that it's important, you don't exactly boot your PC every 10 mins :))

This is on the Laptop in my sig, Vista was pre installed.

[crhylove]

Vista is truly, and magnificently, horrible. Probably the worst OS MS put out besides ME.

I'm not a giant Linux fanboi, either. I think that XP is superior to Ubuntu in many ways. Not being brown by default just one obvious and glaring one.

That being said, I still use XP, in virtualbox on one side of my compiz cube. I cannot for the life of me imagine a scenario where I would ever recommend Vista to anybody for any reason. It is well and truly a horrible, buggy, bloated, slow, over-priced, pathetic excuse for an OS, and everyone involved should be deeply ashamed.

[PryGuy]

Well, I'm an Ubuntu fanboy. ;) I use XP, Vista is a mess. You've said that XP is superior to Vista in many ways, I cannot agree. Being a system administrator I see too many cases of viruses getting XP machines down. XP would be perfect on a PC without disk drives, USB ports for flash disks, and internet. ;) But that's just a dream nowadays. The thing is that XP just doesn't fit the modern society any more. It's too old for that. Vista is a zombie thing. Developers took XP engine, put it on steroids with some eye candies and presented it as a new product. Well, you know the story... So I will never agree that XP is superior to Linux.

[Macdelaney]

Just for balance, and to respond to your last sentence. Yes, I have had a much better experience with Vista.

No BSOD
No Lockups
No stability or performance issues
Boot time 35 secs (not that it's important, you don't exactly boot your PC every 10 mins :))

This is on the Laptop in my sig, Vista was pre installed.

Exactly what my experience was, running on
AMD x2 5200+gb
4 Gb Ram
8600GTS Oc edition

I used it for about 5 months and never had a problem.

[crtlbreak]

I am sure this has been mentioned in the thread somewhere already so essentially this could be a bump.

Microsoft Vista is built on XP which is a jazzed up version of W2K - which is the plugandplay version of NT, itself being a microsoft encrypted attempt of the file system of win98/ME/95 which in turn come from windows 3.x and they all stem from DOS.

Ubuntu, Fedora, Redhat, SusE, Debian, puppy, Gentoo, Cent - are all direct descendants or derivatives of the Linux OS - developed, updated and refined over time in many different forms or ways.

Which would be your OS of preference?

[Toshibawarrior]

Which would be your OS of preference?

Linux all the way!!! w00t-w00t!!!

No matter how many stems or descendants Linux may have, they all will be awesome...no viruses and stuff...

In exchange Windows will always be carrying around it's sloppiness and security hole no matter how pretty they want to decorate it...

Sooooo...yeah, I love Linux all the way! ;) I had too many bad experiences with every Windows from 95 to Vista...So I'm never coming back...:p

[link48010]

You got things mixed up. Loading up doesn't only depend on RAM it depends on many factors including OS. So comparison with 1GB and 2gb during booting is useless. If you really want to test it then do it on same machine and dual boot on same drive with fresh installs of both OS and then do your loading up tests. That would give you the aprrox. results you are after!

Uhm agreed, there are even more variables than most people realize, from the RPM of the drive, bus speed of the motherboard, processor cache, RAM speed, video card memory speed (especially important to vista).

My preference depends on what I'm doing. I use Linux at school cause I have office replacements, but if it flows to music, photo editing, or video editing/watching then I go for Vista. I have Photoshop, Zune software, and picasa.

[niccholaspage]

This laptop had to come with Vista.When I first got it it was fine but after 1 month...Eh.Slow startup and everything was very stupid.Vista had to crash too.I wish I could some how use my recovery disks to get Vista back because there are some things only Vista can do.Oh and by the way,Vista's shutdown time is awful! 10 minutes to shutdown my laptop..

[Perpetual]

I have been using Vista since I got this new laptop. Tried Ubuntu but Atheros wireless is not worth my time in messing with after every update. With that said, I use XP 10 hours per day at work and so far I have found Vista to be more enjoyable, more stable and more secure. Eventually I will go back to Linux when I A) get bored with Vista and B) Atheros is working out of the box. I ran Mandriva 2008 Live CD and it has Atheros support out of the box. May be installing it soon...

[priestscientist]

Most Linux Users are more independent than Windows Users anyway. I am new to Linux, and I see independence than Windows. Windows has too much restriction.
Well me personally; I don't like restriction.

[khelben1979]

Well, I'm an Ubuntu fanboy. ;) I use XP, Vista is a mess. You've said that XP is superior to Vista in many ways, I cannot agree. Being a system administrator I see too many cases of viruses getting XP machines down. XP would be perfect on a PC without disk drives, USB ports for flash disks, and internet. ;) But that's just a dream nowadays. The thing is that XP just doesn't fit the modern society any more. It's too old for that. Vista is a zombie thing. Developers took XP engine, put it on steroids with some eye candies and presented it as a new product. Well, you know the story... So I will never agree that XP is superior to Linux.

I myself am using XP and my XP never ever breaks down because of viruses(and that is not related to the fact that I never receive viruses..). There is powerful software out there which can protect XP.

I have no personal experience with Vista, but many people on the net for example DriverHeaven, has told me that Vista works very good! I don't know what to believe, to be honest. But... I'm very sceptic concerning Vista as a secure operating system and from what I have read I don't like Vista.

As always, I think it depends much on how one configures the operating system. An unconfigured XP system with default settings is a very, very weak operating system when one talks about security, even if all the latest security patches has been installed.

[fiddledd]

I have no personal experience with Vista, but many people on the net for example DriverHeaven, has told me that Vista works very good! I don't know what to believe, to be honest.

As a general rule I believe nothing I read online. You can only base an opinion on experience, not on other people's opinions, IMHO.:)

EDIT: Reading my post it seems anti Vista, it's not, I use Vista daily, and am extremely happy with it.

[khelben1979]

As a general rule I believe nothing I read online. You can only base an opinion on experience, not on other people's opinions, IMHO.:)

Bad rule according to my taste. There are many good reviews out there about a lot of things. Being a sceptic though, I don't believe everything I read, of course.

[steinzeitmensch]

I was a windows guy until only the last few weeks.
I had a new laptop that came with Vista (no choice in OS's at all)
I wanted to have XP but the licence exchange scheme that MS has to let people wind back to XP is only reserved for the 2 primium versions of Vista. Everyone esle is stuck with Vista, unless they decide to be adventureous as I did.

Vista in fact was a dog, apart from the eye candy, it was nothing superior to XP. I liked the way it handled wireless and new network connections but that is just some juggling of dialogues.
One complete annoyance was the fact that you had to give it admin rights to do anything!
Eventually it crapped out and I had to recover it from the hidden partition (yes, Lenovo did not supply a bood recovery disc!)

When I discovered that this was corrupted, I had no choice but to start experimenting with Linux.
With nothing to loose, I dived in and was very pleasantly surprised.

I want to thank all the thousands of volunteer programmers who from the true love of doing something better, created and administer and improve and support and etc.... all the various incantations of Linux.
I am hooked

THANKYOU

[fiddledd]

Bad rule according to my taste. There are many good reviews out there about a lot of things. Being a sceptic though, I don't believe everything I read, of course.

Agreed, there are good reviews, but also biased ones. It's deciding which is which that can be a problem. It's like here in the forum, you get the majority saying "Vista is a dog" (I wish I had a £ for every time I read that here :)). Then in Testimonials sub-forum you the "Linux sucks" threads. Neither is true in my experience, both Vista and Linux do what I want them to do.

[Saint Angeles]

i think the main difference between linux and vista is the code. i mean, linux is made by these people from all over the world and vista is like... not.

also, vista costs a lot of money and most linuxes are free.

also, linux has a different spelling than vista. now, i know its true that they have the same amount of letters... but if you look closely, you'll see that vista starts with a "V" and linux starts with an "L".

i also noticed that vista looks a certain way that is different than linux.

i think thats about it. if i missed anything... i don't care.

[fiddledd]

i think the main difference between linux and vista is the code. i mean, linux is made by these people from all over the world and vista is like... not.

also, vista costs a lot of money and most linuxes are free.

also, linux has a different spelling than vista. now, i know its true that they have the same amount of letters... but if you look closely, you'll see that vista starts with a "V" and linux starts with an "L".

i also noticed that vista looks a certain way that is different than linux.

i think thats about it. if i missed anything... i don't care.

Don't forget the most important difference, Vista is made by the evil devil worshippers, I can't say the company name as something terrible might happen.:)

[konsta82]

after few weeks with 8.04 , vista looks old and unmanageable. only advantage of windows are some games you can't play in linux but everything else is crap

linux forever!

[cmat]

It really doesn't matter what OS I'm using since all the apps I use are cross-platform, except AutoCAD >:(. Just that I like Ubuntu much more than Vista. I'm a control freak and I love the control I have over the OS. With Windows I feel like I'm driving a car with the hood welded shut. Still does what I need it to do but I feel like I'm a passenger rather than a driver. Not to mention they moved everything around since XP and I'm use to GNOME's simplified interface.

[rockface]

Don't forget the most important difference, Vista is made by the evil devil worshippers, I can't say the company name as something terrible might happen.:)

'made by the evil devil worshippers', did not the Dark Lord Ballmer infer something similar about Linux and it's users?

[d0b33]

Cant really compare Vista to Ubuntu just like you cant compare OSX to Vista or Ubuntu, they all have their strengths and weaknesses, I use all 3 because they all fill a need that the the other OS just does not fill adequately for me.

[cmat]

'made by the evil devil worshippers', did not the Dark Lord Ballmer infer something similar about Linux and it's users?

No he called us a bunch of commies trying to overthrow the civilized world.

[rockface]

No he called us a bunch of commies trying to overthrow the civilized world.

Thanks cmat, maybe my view of what Ballmer actually said was a touch too melodramatic.

[cmat]

Yeah after that comment I take all of Microsoft's efforts to "embrace and extend" FOSS with a grain of salt. They are a huge company and the ultimate goal of a company is to gain monopoly status. Nothing else, I don't care about their vision and other garbage. They have their bottom line and we have to live with it.

[mike1234]

It really doesn't matter what OS I'm using since all the apps I use are cross-platform, except AutoCAD >:(. Just that I like Ubuntu much more than Vista. I'm a control freak and I love the control I have over the OS. With Windows I feel like I'm driving a car with the hood welded shut. Still does what I need it to do but I feel like I'm a passenger rather than a driver. Not to mention they moved everything around since XP and I'm use to GNOME's simplified interface.

Autocad on Vista? Wow. What's that take to run properly, about 10 gig of Ram?

M.

[L815]

Check out CodePlex (http://www.codeplex.com/)

[karellen]

Autocad on Vista? Wow. What's that take to run properly, about 10 gig of Ram?

M.

http://autodesk.blogs.com/between_the_lines/2007/02/system_requirem.html
if you are really curious...

[cmat]

I work in 3D (architectural) too and my PC barely squeezes into minimum system requirement for 2008. Also AutoCAD is expensive and I can't be buying licenses every 2 years. Not to mention AutoCAD is getting disgustingly bloated as time goes on.

[99bluefoxx]

i now use both windows 2000 and xp in addition to ubuntu linux[and other variants] but have to say that other than all the games i want working [i]almost perfectly i have found nothing good about the operating systems. i have to reboot at least once a day, explorer crashes frequently, and for all its compatability, its garbage and costs too much. whenever i can i prefere to use linux as it is far more stable upon release, i can leave it running for days at a time and it only crashes when i do stupid things[as opposed to windows crashing while being left alone]. sadly, i am stuck with windows until i can get another hard drive[since i dont wish to loose some of the apps i have here]

[d0b33]

Only 2 things force me to use Vista.

Games and a media center that works(have not got mythtv to work yet)

[ukripper]

Only 2 things force me to use Vista.

Games and a media center that works(have not got mythtv to work yet)

I rather use XP in that case

[d0b33]

I rather use XP in that case

I was the same but drivers for vista are much better now after SP1 and graphics are really good especially with DX10 games.

[antiloop]

For you people that aren't quite happy with Vista and how it performs but still need Windows in some form. I advice you to try Windows XP 64 bit.

Much better performance and I have no problems with compability. It's running on the same kernel as Windows 2003 server.

[d0b33]

For you people that aren't quite happy with Vista and how it performs but still need Windows in some form. I advice you to try Windows XP 64 bit.

Much better performance and I have no problems with compability. It's running on the same kernel as Windows 2003 server.

It's best to get Vista64 IMO, unless you have an old PC then take the XP route.

[Liviu-Theodor]

Matt, Just to be fair here, a lot of the programs that you have listed for linux are also available for Windows: ie OO, gimp, etc.

True, but this is no merit of Windows, but of the open-source community, because they produce multi-platform programs, which are usually programmed and tested on *nix platforms, and works also on Windows. So, without Linux and other Unix-like OS-es, we will not have OpenOffice, gimp, Firefox, and many other. Even more, the cost for software products that run on Windows will be even greater.

[Liviu-Theodor]

I tried Vista on my second hard drive a couple of days ago, just to see what all the hoopla was about. I was not impressed. There was nothing innovative in this release, not a big surprise coming from MS. Really, all it boils down to is Windows XP with beryl + the media center (which is nothing new.) So glad I use linux now, so, so glad.

Unfortunately, we are using Windows Vista (oficially) at my work. I am impressed. Really. I mean, even CP/M was better at its time with the hardware available then, than it is Vista with the hardware available now. They have managed it! How could I be not impressed with such a counter-performance?

[Liviu-Theodor]

UAC is one of the best things Microsoft has ever done. Really. I know it could get annoying, but frankly, I'd rather have overzealous protection that protection that let things slide by. even the black hats have admitted that UAC can stop them from doing things.

For me, UAC is the only good thing in Vista. Even the eye-candy is not that good as advertised.