Linux vs. Vista

[joe.turion64x2]

I have said this to others on other forums as well: Vista sucks big time.

I read somewhere in the beginning of this thread that the specs would have to be a 3GHz processor, 1GB RAM, 15GB free space, 128MB graphic and a few other things. This was before it was released. It was refuted with someone saying MS had said it could run on 800MHz (At least 1GHz), 256MB RAM and some other much lower requirements.

My experience is: The first estimate was right. My granddad bought a new computer with Vista Home Premium on it, with the first specs or above. I have done some work on that computer, and I would say those specs are the BARE MINIMUM of what is needed to run Vista. It goes past the splash screen fast enough, but after that, it feels like working on my eight year old laptop (366MHz, 192MB RAM, no graphics, 6.2GB HDD) running XP Home SP2. It may shave a few seconds off the startup time, the menus may show up a tad faster, and it looks a little bit better, but for the price difference between the hardware and software, Vista sucks (abbreviate yourselves) ********.

I installed Edgy Eft on that laptop, and where it took XP three minutes to start, it took Ubuntu thirty seconds. I posted a thread on it elsewhere in the forums: Amazed at OLD laptop.

I am still using XP on a new machine, and trying to find my Ubuntu-feet with dual booting, but I feel like I am getting there slowly but surely. I am dedicated to leave the world of M$ behind, it just takes a little while finding apps that perform as good as some of the (few) programs I have BOUGHT for XP, of which one of them is a lifetime license (or until they dissolve the company, whichever comes first).

If people ask me for advice on what to get when buying a new computer, I usually search the Web for them to see if I can find white boxes, and offer to learn with them how to setup Ubuntu, before I point to those few left that comes with XP.
In my case I use to build the 'white boxes' myself. The problem is when it comes to a laptop.

Joe.

[karellen]

I have said this to others on other forums as well: Vista sucks big time.

I read somewhere in the beginning of this thread that the specs would have to be a 3GHz processor, 1GB RAM, 15GB free space, 128MB graphic and a few other things. This was before it was released. It was refuted with someone saying MS had said it could run on 800MHz (At least 1GHz), 256MB RAM and some other much lower requirements.

My experience is: The first estimate was right. My granddad bought a new computer with Vista Home Premium on it, with the first specs or above. I have done some work on that computer, and I would say those specs are the BARE MINIMUM of what is needed to run Vista. It goes past the splash screen fast enough, but after that, it feels like working on my eight year old laptop (366MHz, 192MB RAM, no graphics, 6.2GB HDD) running XP Home SP2. It may shave a few seconds off the startup time, the menus may show up a tad faster, and it looks a little bit better, but for the price difference between the hardware and software, Vista sucks (abbreviate yourselves) ********.

I installed Edgy Eft on that laptop, and where it took XP three minutes to start, it took Ubuntu thirty seconds. I posted a thread on it elsewhere in the forums: Amazed at OLD laptop.

I am still using XP on a new machine, and trying to find my Ubuntu-feet with dual booting, but I feel like I am getting there slowly but surely. I am dedicated to leave the world of M$ behind, it just takes a little while finding apps that perform as good as some of the (few) programs I have BOUGHT for XP, of which one of them is a lifetime license (or until they dissolve the company, whichever comes first).

If people ask me for advice on what to get when buying a new computer, I usually search the Web for them to see if I can find white boxes, and offer to learn with them how to setup Ubuntu, before I point to those few left that comes with XP.

I run vista without aero on an old rig P4 2.4.ghz, with 512 mb of ram, geforce 4 as fast as XP did. that's my facts, I encounter them every day. the rest are just biased assumptions

[Frak]

I run vista without aero on an old rig P4 2.4.ghz, with 512 mb of ram, geforce 4 as fast as XP did. that's my facts, I encounter them every day. the rest are just biased assumptions
I run vista with aero on an old rig P4 1.8.ghz, with 512 mb of ram, geforce 5 as fast as XP did.

[darrenm]

I run vista with aero on an old rig P4 1.8.ghz, with 512 mb of ram, geforce 5 as fast as XP did.

I'm sorry but I don't believe you. Can you quantify what "as fast as XP did" means?

[Dr Small]

I have personally never used Vista, but I have seen it at computer stores, froze because the pc didn't have enough ram, and they turned on the new WOW screensavers....

But I never wish to use it, and I would stick with Linux any day.

Dr Small

[darksong]

I'm sorry but I don't believe you. Can you quantify what "as fast as XP did" means?

Opens applications, speed at which they run at - how else can you define as fast. My PC (specs listed below) - both XP and vista are quick - vista is quicker once loaded into desktop.

[insane_alien]

I run vista with aero on an old rig P4 1.8.ghz, with 512 mb of ram, geforce 5 as fast as XP did.

i don't believe you. my older rig(with a FASTER proccessor, 3GHz) could not run vista fast without aero and it could not run aero at all. since then the graphics card has been pawned on ebay and it fills the role of fileserver.

[qamelian]

I run vista without aero on an old rig P4 2.4.ghz, with 512 mb of ram, geforce 4 as fast as XP did. that's my facts, I encounter them every day. the rest are just biased assumptions

Nope. When I tested Vista, I had to boost my RAM from 512MB to 2 GB to get the same performance as XP. No assumptions there.

[Gremlinzzz]

: Linux vs. Vista would be a short fight.I have basic vista which i don't use .XP would give a better fight than Vista and XP suxs.Ill stay with the better system which right now is Linux.

[darrenm]

Opens applications, speed at which they run at - how else can you define as fast. My PC (specs listed below) - both XP and vista are quick - vista is quicker once loaded into desktop.

Page file
idle CPU usage
Memory in use
Average time to open various applications
Average time taken to open various folders and locations

That kinda stuff.

From my own experience Vista is about 1.5-2x slower than XP when opening windows built in apps like IE and Explorer.

[cmat]

Maybe it's hardware. Like drives being too slow. Vista runs like a truck but it's not incredibly slow. Just takes longer but is able to do the same things as XP with compatibility aside. I still don't like it and it will be a while if they will ever resolve its problems. XP SP3 was a good idea.

[karellen]

I run vista with aero on an old rig P4 1.8.ghz, with 512 mb of ram, geforce 5 as fast as XP did.

thanks not I'm not the only one :D
(I can't use aero because of my poor video card ;) )

[joe.turion64x2]

Opens applications, speed at which they run at - how else can you define as fast. My PC (specs listed below) - both XP and vista are quick - vista is quicker once loaded into desktop.
Why don't you show us an screenshot of your P4 1.8GHz rig running Vista? I mean, the screen with the "Windows Experience" (where performance is rated).

[Frak]

i don't believe you. my older rig(with a FASTER proccessor, 3GHz) could not run vista fast without aero and it could not run aero at all. since then the graphics card has been pawned on ebay and it fills the role of fileserver.
Took out some stuff out of startup and it runs fine.

Don't believe me, then don't. Your own ignorance.

And IE and Firefox open faster in Vista for me. Again, you don't have to believe me.

[insane_alien]

the only difference in the hardware was the processor speed.

it doesn't run good. it runs crap in the default. it wouldn't even let me use aero. it is not ignorance. it is waiting around 1minute for programs like IE and firefox to open.

[Frak]

Here's tip if you want it to run fast, this is what I did.

Use XP and download vLite (http://www.vlite.net/), and take out everything you can exept Aero and the Sidebar.

It'll run like a racehorse. Regular Vista doesn't run great, but this does.

[Depressed Man]

Haha that reminds me of my friend's XP. I think it was XP Mad or something like that. The OS was so stripped down (no splash screens, no boot screens, no themes, etc.. services removed) that it booted up faster then any OS I've ever seen.

Of course it was rather useless since you couldn't do much with it lol.

[joe.turion64x2]

Here's tip if you want it to run fast, this is what I did.

Use XP and download vLite (http://www.vlite.net/), and take out everything you can exept Aero and the Sidebar.

It'll run like a racehorse. Regular Vista doesn't run great, but this does.
Being that the case then even Linux can be modified to run faster.

[Frak]

Vista, even modified, does everything I want it to do.

It has a graphical splash screen (using Ultimate, its really nice, I wish Ubuntu had something like this)
It has Vista Aero effects
It has a Sidebar

I'm happy with just that.

[Dark Star]

Vista, even modified, does everything I want it to do.

It has a graphical splash screen (using Ultimate, its really nice, I wish Ubuntu had something like this)
It has Vista Aero effects
It has a Sidebar

I'm happy with just that.
All that take 2gb+ and a GPU and a good CPu for performing better I can do that in 256 MB old P4 and onboard VGA :p So why should I spent bucks on VISTA = Viruses. Intruders. Spywares.Trojans.Adwares :D

[cmat]

Some people need windows for work and gaming.

[darrenm]

They sure do. But most people don't need Vista for gaming and even less need Vista for work as no-one in the Enterprise will touch it.

[cmat]

They sure do. But most people don't need Vista for gaming and even less need Vista for work as no-one in the Enterprise will touch it.

Windows not just vista

[toupeiro]

178+ pages.. no way I am going to read them all.

I'm just surprised there is still any debate here at all.. :)

[Tabenx]

The only thing I still use windows for is its office suite. It's the only thing I like in Windows and the only thing I can't stand in Ubuntu.

[M$LOL]

Vista, even modified, does everything I want it to do.

It has a graphical splash screen (using Ultimate, its really nice, I wish Ubuntu had something like this)
It has Vista Aero effects
It has a Sidebar

I'm happy with just that.

And I bet my Beryl cube works faster. :popcorn:

Plus, while effects are nice, they don't really do much for productivity. Personally, my PC exists for functionality first and sexy effects second ;)

[weblordpepe]

Well at the moment I have four buttons on my laptop:
Two buttons to flip the workspace left & right.

Another two buttons to flip the workspace left & right while pulling the foreground window with it. That lets me put windows here & there and sort stuff.

Its very efficient. I'm sure I couldn't do that on Vista. The OS wouldn't even load on this old hunk of crap probably.

Also when I turn the laptop on, at the boot-up menu the laptop talks, saying a greeting & telling me what the date & time is, and then says a fortune cookie.

All with free software, on an old 1.6ghz laptop.

[phenest]

i don't believe you. my older rig(with a FASTER proccessor, 3GHz) could not run vista fast without aero and it could not run aero at all. since then the graphics card has been pawned on ebay and it fills the role of fileserver.

This reminds me of a performance difference I had with 2 laptops running XP Pro SP2. One was a Dell Inspiron 8000 (P3 1GHz, 512Mb RAM, gForce 2 32Mb), and the other was a Compaq M300 (P3 450MHz, 384Mb RAM, 8Mb video). The Compaq out-performed the Dell easily, even playing some games.

I installed Vista Ultimate as a 30 day trial (damned if I'm buying it), on a Dell Dimension 4500 (P4 2.25GHz, 1Gb RAM, gForce FX 5200 64Mb). Ran as quick as XP or even Ubuntu. My current laptop is a brand new Dell Precision M90 (Core 2 Duo 2.33GHz, 4Gb RAM, Quadro 3500 512Mb) which shipped with Vista Business. Vista, XP, and Ubuntu run like greased lightning! Needless to say, this laptop is running Ubuntu 7.04 because I don't like Vista.

But my reasons for not liking Vista have nothing to do with performance. It sucks because it's harder to navigate and find things and UAC is pathetic. And you still need AV software!

Hang on ... someone at my door:
Me: "Friend or foe?"
Someone: "Friend."
Me: "Ok. Come in."
BANG!
Now I'm dead!
Perhaps if I gave my friends a key each, and then I wouldn't have to ask if they are friend or foe. Too late now.

I cannot believe M$ paid a security company for help with Windoze' security, and that's what they came up with. If anyone has seen Apple's "Security" ad, UAC does exactly that: "Continue or Cancel?". If you haven't seen it, it's hilarious!

[weblordpepe]

Oh yeah I understand completely.
You've summerized the security-model perfectly.

What bugs me is that the end-user is expected to maintain the system as-if there was some control over it. After a discussion of why a friend of mine insisted on using a software firewall on XP, he said it was because he wanted control to see which apps were doing what.

Anyone whos heard of a rootkit understands why desktop software firewalls on closed-API system are a fool's firewall.

[cmat]

178+ pages.. no way I am going to read them all.

I'm just surprised there is still any debate here at all.. :)

Never ending I assure you. :popcorn:

[weblordpepe]

The first reason why this thread has reached 178 pages is people continue to repeat themselves instead of going back to the first post.

The second reason is that people continue to state things that they can do on either platform, as if platforms were good for one thing or another. Computers are computers, and as far as the end-user is concerned, all do the same thing.
Thats end-users, not admins.

And the third reason is that half the time this debate is not about the pros and cons of either platform. It's about the mentality and philosophy behind building a computer system in order to promote a certain type of computing model on the world.
That is the biggest difference between Vista and the Linuxes.

And the fourth reason why this thread is still going on: You're all a bunch of nerds :)

(I think a 5th reason may be that people are trolling, but generally that consists of one of the four other reasons. People dont troll just to be a pain.)

[Frak]

And I bet my Beryl cube works faster. :popcorn:

Plus, while effects are nice, they don't really do much for productivity. Personally, my PC exists for functionality first and sexy effects second ;)
I don't doubt you, I run Ubuntu, XP, and Vista on this one computer.
Ubuntu for Work
XP for Work and Gaming (Windows only software)
Vista for Vista specific apps

[eoghanmurray]

Well, I don't want to go on, and probably around 6,700 people have a lready said this word for word, but Ubuntu isn't going away any time soon.
DELL have backed it up. The biggest PC manufacturer in the world is behind us. And anyway, there are enough brain-owning humans out there that have the sufficient brainpower and ability to type and move a plastic rodent around a flat surface to discover, use and enjoy linux. My friend, who is a Microsoft patriot, was forced by me (I paid him) to use Ubuntu 7.04 for a month. He had just paid £320 for Micro$oft Windows Vista Ultimate Edition 64-bit (what a mouthful). After the month, and after I had showed him Compiz Fusion and XGL, he was completely swiched and got his money back for his unopened Vista box.

Is Linux going to survive? If the biggest Micro$oft patriot out there in the northern hemisphere switches, after paying £320, I think a lot others will.

Even my granny loves the fancy effects on her Pentium 2 PC!

Now, that's universal appeal :D

[M$LOL]

And the fourth reason why this thread is still going on: You're all a bunch of nerds :)


Actually I think you're a moron because you're yet again resorting to name calling. Just because people have opinions about Windows and Linux doesn't make them nerds. Maybe I should also point out that you're posting in this thread the same as everyone else, so what makes you think you're exempt from what you call them for posting in it?

[dodgem]

Actually I think you're a moron because you're yet again resorting to name calling. Just because people have opinions about Windows and Linux doesn't make them nerds. Maybe I should also point out that you're posting in this thread the same as everyone else, so what makes you think you're exempt from what you call them for posting in it?

I don't think weblordpepe was denying he's a nerd - perhaps you prefer the name computer-geek? It all amounts to the same thing - we're all interested in computers, operating systems, linux, etc and that's what is affectionately known as being a geek/nerd. Don't be offended by a name, embrace it :tongue:

As to the original point of this thread... oh, i won't bother - i expect 18 other people have already said what i would write anyway ;)

[weblordpepe]

Actually I think you're a moron because you're yet again resorting to name calling. Just because people have opinions about Windows and Linux doesn't make them nerds. Maybe I should also point out that you're posting in this thread the same as everyone else, so what makes you think you're exempt from what you call them for posting in it?Quit looking for a fight (trolling). It was a joke. Cmon...even Spock learned to smile eventually.

[M$LOL]

I don't think weblordpepe was denying he's a nerd - perhaps you prefer the name computer-geek? It all amounts to the same thing - we're all interested in computers, operating systems, linux, etc and that's what is affectionately known as being a geek/nerd. Don't be offended by a name, embrace it :tongue:

That's not what I understand the term to be. ;)
Quit looking for a fight (trolling). It was a joke. Cmon...even Spock learned to smile eventually.
You could have made it a bit more obvious that it was a joke.

[sci-fi guy]

I knew it was a joke...

[UI-Freak]

There is only one thread that is more pointless than this (because people keep posting in it) and that is the word association thread. Some people use Vista, some Linux. Some like coffee, some tea. Which one is better... bah... come on.

[weblordpepe]

You could have made it a bit more obvious that it was a joke.There is only one possible response to that-


Quit bein' a fool!
http://a0.vox.com/6a00bf76d0a9b7438300c2252095a08e1d-500pi

[darksong]

JyOuR a NeRoWd KeKeKeKeKe:KS:popcorn::):(:confused:

[Hendrixski]

I read an interview with one of the lead developers in Sun Micrososytesm, who works on Star Office, and he refers to the "vista stack"... that is all the applications which will communicate with OOXML, and not allow anybody else in on the fun.

the problems with the "Vista stack" are summarized here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=540016

[greymongrey]

I have never used Vista so I have no idea if it's good or bad asnd neither do I care. I am very happy using Linux. I just wish more people felt the same. :D

[kuddo]

Vista wont survive...i like a pro operational system...not cartoons. I would get vista but for my son... For me ?? no thanks! i prefer 98 then vista...bleah...
Ubuntu will rise against Vista...and there are so many kids that are so into linux... Vista is still M!crosoft... M!crosoft is still M!crosoft and this is the worst...

There was a joke saing that if u put a Windows cd in the computer and spin it backwards u will here satanic incantations...but the worst thing is that if u spin it normaly it will install Windows. :)

[karellen]

Vista wont survive...i like a pro operational system...not cartoons. I would get vista but for my son... For me ?? no thanks! i prefer 98 then vista...bleah...
Ubuntu will rise against Vista...and there are so many kids that are so into linux... Vista is still M!crosoft... M!crosoft is still M!crosoft and this is the worst...

There was a joke saing that if u put a Windows cd in the computer and spin it backwards u will here satanic incantations...but the worst thing is that if u spin it normaly it will install Windows. :)

too bad vista comes on a dvd, not cd...your post is as accurate as the aforementioned thing

[arashiko28]

Well now that Vista is already on the horizon and is horrible, I dare to say... NAH!!! No way Vista is in no way better. By the contrary, it is a total disaster, I have tried it, helped to install, I don't like it at all. For fancy looking? Compiz-Fusion rocks!!! That is some real change, I have drawn people who already bought Vista to Ubuntu just by showing them what I can do with Beryl, I've had a few problems with compiz fusion, how ever, there are some great demos on youtube and they have gone mad.:lolflag:

[tech9]

Ubuntu is way more Stable that Vista!!! so yes, I believe ubuntu will be able to compete with vista:popcorn:

[Frak]

too bad vista comes on a dvd, not cd...your post is as accurate as the aforementioned thing
They made a 5 CD version.

[eoghanmurray]

So the experience crashes to a 1990s experience (1995-ish) of installing programs with 47 floppy disks.

[Nachowarrior]

I switch TO the bun BECAUSE vista was coming out.... I read up on it and decided that I never wanted it... so I found ubuntu... my brother did too, we're both super happy. It's also good to have an os that is SO flexible... I'm still learning, but it beats out windows any day of the week. :-p I think i may start suggesting ubuntu to some of my clients as well (i do pc repair) but that'd put me out of business on the software side... haha!

[danny joe ritchie]

I think Ubuntu will shine, myself,I already prefer Ubuntu over windows for several reasons !
(1) Ubuntu can be installed and running in minutes (no need to download drivers or register my copy).
(2) Ubuntu has everything that I need in an OS (music,video,internet ,etc.
(3) Ubuntu's desktop is clean & easy to learn (no need to be a wizard at the command line)
(4) Its mine , its free .

[darksong]

I switch TO the bun BECAUSE vista was coming out.... I read up on it and decided that I never wanted it... so I found ubuntu... my brother did too, we're both super happy. It's also good to have an os that is SO flexible... I'm still learning, but it beats out windows any day of the week. :-p I think i may start suggesting ubuntu to some of my clients as well (i do pc repair) but that'd put me out of business on the software side... haha!

why does ubuntu beat vista? i have never seen a real reason. And then why is ubuntu better than debian - i can only see 3 differences between the two, ubuntu has smaller repos, ubuntu is brown, ubuntu has a larger community.

[dca]

why does ubuntu beat vista? i have never seen a real reason. And then why is ubuntu better than debian - i can only see 3 differences between the two, ubuntu has smaller repos, ubuntu is brown, ubuntu has a larger community.

Ubuntu uses Ubiquity instead of the ol' timey installer and Etch Intall (which quite frankly is real nice) which makes overall installation much easier to the newcomer.

Ubuntu's post install config is a little easier and also easier to install the naughty bits.

Hmmm, maybe you're right I only came up w/ two off the top of my head :D

[karellen]

I switch TO the bun BECAUSE vista was coming out.... I read up on it and decided that I never wanted it...
how do you know that you don't want something without trying it first?

[darksong]

Ubuntu uses Ubiquity instead of the ol' timey installer and Etch Intall (which quite frankly is real nice) which makes overall installation much easier to the newcomer.

Ubuntu's post install config is a little easier and also easier to install the naughty bits.

Hmmm, maybe you're right I only came up w/ two off the top of my head :D

I like your picture :D

[phenest]

how do you know that you don't want something without trying it first?

They did say they read up on it first, which does prove they did the necessary research before wasting money. People do this all the time, and not just with computer operating systems.

[phenest]

why does ubuntu beat vista? i have never seen a real reason.

Reasons why Ubuntu "beats" Vista ...

1- It's free
2- No need for activation.
3- I use it as I please without losing support.
4- It does more 'Out Of The Box'.
5- You don't need a fancy graphics card.
6- I don't need a fancy computer.
7- It's secure.
8- I don't have to worry about viruses.
9- I can use it as a Live CD.
10- I can install it to an external hard drive.
11- Installing software is simpler.
12- It's more stable.

I think a dozen reasons is good enough to dump any version of Windoze in preference for Linux/Ubuntu.

[karellen]

They did say they read up on it first, which does prove they did the necessary research before wasting money. People do this all the time, and not just with computer operating systems.

reading....that's a not so very convincing argument. it depends what you read, who wrote what you read and how do you interpret what you read
I'm for using something before saying something about (especially in the it world). and you don't have to spend money, everybody has friends and relatives and co-workers

[phenest]

I'm for using something before saying something about (especially in the it world). and you don't have to spend money, everybody has friends and relatives and co-workers

That's very assuming of you. The only people I know that are using Vista are using an OEM copy that shipped with their pc that is locked to the hardware.

So what is your next suggestion?

M$ may have made it possible to use Vista as a 30 day trial, but you still have to find some mug that bought it to be able to borrow it.

[BoyOfDestiny]

That's very assuming of you. The only people I know that are using Vista are using an OEM copy that shipped with their pc that is locked to the hardware.

So what is your next suggestion?

M$ may have made it possible to use Vista as a 30 day trial, but you still have to find some mug that bought it to be able to borrow it.

Indeed.

Just for the record I read the article by this guy:

http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/

His article here
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/vista_cost.html

And this guy
http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS4434907782.html

You can find many more articles if you are interested.

However, I decided to dislike Vista well before it was called that, Longhorn.

http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html

I find this unacceptable. So Vista may be great at multitasking, for instance transferring files while playing an mp3, or perhaps hot plugging a dvd drive (yes I am making a joke... ;) ) but I still won't use it because I find these copyprotection/DRM features unacceptable.

That's how I know I won't like it. As for other users who choose to use/not use it based on their experience or what he or she has read, seen, etc. Ultimately up to them.

if they've read what I've read, and still want Vista, I'm not going to stop them... :P

[karellen]

ultimately, it's up to the end user, as it always have been. there's room for many many choices

[TravMan63]

I had my 1st 'taste' of Vista just recently (at a Best Buy).

After I found the control panel - I went to System Properties.

I received an error 'page can not be found'.

--

My second encounter was removing some software a user had installed. After I did that - the problems (very slow internet ) were resolved. It did get annoying with each question 'do you want to install' - but this is similar to ubuntu installing a package. it did not ask for a password each time - but seemed to ask more often

This machine had an Athlon 3800, 1-2GB of ram - ...and it ran (various windows functions - pulling up control panel etc) - very slowly - it was 'pretty' - (Home edition extreme?) - but I feel xubuntu on a 700 executed similar functions at about the same speed.

Elive 1.0 Gem on a 2ghz machine was much much faster - but didn't have quite the number of 'eye candy' effects

-- my observations - a pretty face, but performance is lacking

[phenest]

And is it just me, or is Vista harder to navigate? The menu bar (found immediately below the title bar of a window) is missing on every app. :confused: All those things I would disable in XP, i.e. services such as Security Center doesn't appear to be possible in Vista because it carries on working regardless.

[Depressed Man]

I think they hid them (press alt to get to them)

[weblordpepe]

I get lost when navigating Vista. Even when I know what I'm looking for I find it awkward.

[anemptygun]

speaking of fancy graphics... check this link out!

http://www.linuxsoft.cz/screenshot_img/53-a.jpg

Wow that looks pretty cool!

[anemptygun]

I have both Vista and Ubuntu. I just installed Compiz and kiba-dock and I have to tell you I think it looks much better than vista imho.

[tashmooclam]

I wonder if they have Yugo threads on the BMW owners weblog?
Microsoft makes clunky, junky software which is never the best of anything, and always makes your computer obsolete about the same time it slows to a crawl from all of the fragmented files, spyware and viruses.
Use Vista at your peril, and also, show everyone which category of user you are. If you're cheap but have a clue, you run Linux. If you have money you bought a Mac. If you have neither taste, a clue, nor money, you are right in there with Vista.
Go down to Circuit City and pick up a nice Acer laptop with Vista for $350. Impress your friends.

[karellen]

I wonder if they have Yugo threads on the BMW owners weblog?
Microsoft makes clunky, junky software which is never the best of anything, and always makes your computer obsolete about the same time it slows to a crawl from all of the fragmented files, spyware and viruses.
Use Vista at your peril, and also, show everyone which category of user you are. If you're cheap but have a clue, you run Linux. If you have money you bought a Mac. If you have neither taste, a clue, nor money, you are right in there with Vista.
Go down to Circuit City and pick up a nice Acer laptop with Vista for $350. Impress your friends.

it's very "unwise", not to say more, of you to judge people after the os they use. don't you think it's utterly simplistic and superficial? your post just shows you (mental) age. I suppose you never heard of personal preferences ;). maybe you should sit back and relax and think a little about computers, os, tools and judgments...

[newman]

Wow that looks pretty cool!


Oh, I can't stand enlightment - elive looks so stupid that it's not even funny. It's like a joke rather than an OS!

[eoghanmurray]

Yeah - it's grap compared to GNOME plus Compiz Fusion.

[ukripper]

http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/fc7KLzC1fWIeJ4/Linux-vs-Windows---All-You-Need-to-Know.xhtml

[motin]

http://www.linuxinsider.com/story/fc7KLzC1fWIeJ4/Linux-vs-Windows---All-You-Need-to-Know.xhtml

That article is just as biased as the ones that comes from MS Marketing.

[ukripper]

That article is just as biased as the ones that comes from MS Marketing.

I am glad you said it. this comparison will go on till dooms day i guess

[hiloguy]

Vista is competition for Linux? VISTA IS THE REASON I'M NOW A LINUX GUY! Forcing Vista down our throats is also the reason a lot of people are buying Macs. "If I'm going to have to learn another new OS, it might as well be one that works," is something I hear a lot. That was my intent as well, but then my IT-guy son sent me a Ubuntu CD and a book (Ubuntu Hacks) to try first. I did, and I'm sure glad. Best of both worlds. An OS that works and I didn't have to buy a pricey Mac to get it.

Except for the usual problems of viruses, crashes, fragmented HD's, etc., I've been a pretty happy W-XP user for years now. Just about the time I've mastered XP (with the help of my 1600 page XP Inside Out book), MS tells me I have to "upgrade" to a new OS that is even more bloated than the last one, and that's in addition to the fact that it is another of their new, unproven OS's that will no doubt require continual fixes for the first few years.

Vista, if you can deal with the inevitable bugs, is no doubt the OS of choice for kpeople who use their boxes mostly for gaming. I'm lucky in that I never do that. I've been yearning for years for MS to offer us a version of Windows that worked very well for business applications and forget the "awesome" gaming capabilities and all the useless bling-that-bloats. Well, Linux is exactly that, and it's even free.

Competition? Hardly.

[eoghanmurray]

*congratulatory clapping*

Well said. I agree fully. :D

[kulturloseramerikaner]

Vista is competition for Linux? VISTA IS THE REASON I'M NOW A LINUX GUY!

You and me both! The only thing Vista really has going for it is the desktop environment; say what you will about Vista, it does look very good IMHO. Of course, I discovered how to make XP look just like it this weekend...

[frenchcr]

ditch the aeroglass, sidebar, flip windows etc and switch vista to classic view, what you have is an optimised XP. I liked XP so I love Vista (in classic mode) it has more functionailty and (in classic mode) boots faster than XP. I love ubuntu too.

Why do people have to be so effin tribal and argue one or the other, isnt the option to use lots of distros more wonderful. whats that saying to do with variety and spices :)

[nasov]

i know this is quite odd to say a 100 and one pages after its been initially stated back in 2006 but at the moment in my company we use Vista plus Open office and my colleague who doesnt know anything but MS didn't know the difference. We use Open office for SpreadSheets and acutally complicated account sheets plus word editing and thunderbird for mail...
its all working great and i just cant wait till ill be the area manager to make it all ubuntu pcs... running open office and other... Green and Blue is SOOO Ubuntu and Vice Versa!!!

[njhomeowner]

I just got a vista machine at work. What a shame that a 1.5 GHZ dual core machine with 2GB of ram runs SOOO SLOW.

My home machine has half the power and runs like a champ with Fiesty.

[joe.turion64x2]

I just got a vista machine at work. What a shame that a 1.5 GHZ dual core machine with 2GB of ram runs SOOO SLOW.

My home machine has half the power and runs like a champ with Fiesty.
You know business is business. What would happen to hardware companies if we where all happy with our machines?

"It is just, good business"

[NightCrawler03X]

Vista = a byproduct of microsoft, the great satan.
Linux = a byproduct of millions of people united, who all believe in freedom.

Me = PCLinuxOS user, and proud.

[elinav]

Having two PCs at home, one with Vista and one with Linux, I'm sorry to say but the Vista wins... More expensive, maybe less stable, but so much more software. And for my kids, this and the convenience of windows [yes, it is much more convenient] are what matters.

So I'll stick it out with Linux for the time being, but if I had to chose, it would be Vista.

Doron

[tommcd]

Having two PCs at home, one with Vista and one with Linux, I'm sorry to say but the Vista wins... More expensive, maybe less stable, but so much more software. And for my kids, this and the convenience of windows [yes, it is much more convenient] are what matters.

So I'll stick it out with Linux for the time being, but if I had to chose, it would be Vista.

Doron

More expensive, less stable, so how does that equal winning? As for the software, there are 20,000+ packages available from synaptic, and many more at sourceforge and other places. As for your kids, they will be less likely to pick up malware from myspace or any of the other kinds of sites kids visit that tend to be infested with malware. So what software is it that you can get in windows that there is not a comparable linux program available?

[airtonix]

the program he cant get on linux is this

hardcorehentaigirls.exe

[ExSuSEusr]

More expensive, less stable, so how does that equal winning? As for the software, there are 20,000+ packages available from synaptic, and many more at sourceforge and other places. As for your kids, they will be less likely to pick up malware from myspace or any of the other kinds of sites kids visit that tend to be infested with malware. So what software is it that you can get in windows that there is not a comparable linux program available?

Because he, like many others, either don't have Linux installed right, don't have it configured right, or are simply too inexperienced with it to really understand its full potential. Not knocking the guy - but if I were a betting man - I'd lay money down he falls under one of the 3 categories I listed.

I'm willing to bet that most people who come on with the "Linux is good, but can't do this, that or the other...." haven't even tried to do those things in Linux. They've gotten so used to simply popping an overpriced CD into the drive and clicking "Next" that they aren't willing to take the time necessary to install the same program (via Wine/Crossover) on Linux, or at the very least search for a Linux version.

I'm just amazed at how many people just don't get it. Seriously - I am sitting here - writing papers, listening to music, watching movies and clips, tinkering with images, playing graphically intense games, surfing the web, chatting, sending emails, preforming tasks for work... all these things - some of which are being done through Windows "only" programs - yet the ONLY OS on this machine is Ubuntu. Keeping in mind that I am by no means an expert with Linux - quite the contrary - I consider myself a n00b to the extreme. So, if I can do it - why are there so many others who can't?

I suppose on some level it's just easier for some people to think "well, sure I can probably do this or that in Linux too, but that would require me to actually exert some energy to read and or ask questions on how to do it... hmmm... on second thought... I think I'll just let Microsoft continue to think for me!"

[hiloguy]

Wow. !8,000 replies and 90,000 visits to this argument that seems about as useful as when my high school friends argued about whether Fords were better than Chevies.

As for me, I've been spending some spare time for the last month or so time learning Linux Ubuntu and I am amazed at the competence and power of it all. I think the arguments are silly.

Anyone who wants to stay in the ever-tightening and parasitic clutches of Microsoft should be allowed to do so -- in peace. Mac folks will be Mac folks and with many, it's as much an issue of image as it is anything else, since most Mac users never get close to using their computers at the machine's potential. And if you're into intense graphics and have been working with a Mac since the beginning of dirt, why change?

But for us Linux converts, we must like a bit of a challenge, the learning curve and most of all, the freedom that is worth the effort.

Actually, I should thank Bill for Vista. That's what finally pushed me over the edge to Linux and I am so glad it did.

Live and let live, and let's move on to helping each other instead of spending all this time arguing! :)

Aloha Nui Loa!

[weblordpepe]

I think that this arguement changes over time. But most people just don't know the facts for either side. The last person I talked to in real life about Linux was a dude who thought it was some obscure OS that nobody ran so it was hard to get software for it.

It's a general perception that I get from people. Because 'linux cant play games' or some other crap. Rediculus. People participate in debates without knowing the subject matter.

[samb0057]

I have tried Vista and honestly I think it sucks. Graphics are jerky even on a new computer, yeah it's pretty but honestly I'm just not comfortable with its interface, I liked XP better. It's also amazing how Vista includes a feature like desklets and everyone is crapping their pants wow thats great but think about it linux has had the flexibility to do this for years, along with tons of other things you can put on your desktop.

[darrenm]

Wow. !8,000 replies and 90,000 visits to this argument that seems about as useful as when my high school friends argued about whether Fords were better than Chevies.
!

Well that ones easy too. GM is infinitely better than Ford.

[phenest]

I don't understand the subject: Linux vs. Vista

MS might be competing but Linux is not. Linux is an alternative. There are pros and cons both sides.

I still use Windows for programming in C++. Yes, I could use a Linux alternative, but I need total project compatibility when the other project member is the other side of the Pond.

I use Ubuntu because it does everything I need and want. Which is what it's all about: Choice.

Ubuntu IS ready for the desktop. My reasoning: every one in the Linux community. If it isn't ready, then why are so many of us using it?

'nough said.

[limoral]

I just wanna say that one day the Ubuntu will be the most welcome Linux OS all over the world.

[elinav]

Because he, like many others, either don't have Linux installed right, don't have it configured right, or are simply too inexperienced with it to really understand its full potential. Not knocking the guy - but if I were a betting man - I'd lay money down he falls under one of the 3 categories I listed.

...

I suppose on some level it's just easier for some people to think "well, sure I can probably do this or that in Linux too, but that would require me to actually exert some energy to read and or ask questions on how to do it... hmmm... on second thought... I think I'll just let Microsoft continue to think for me!"

I guess I do fall under one of the three categories.
1) I have an SiS video card which does not have a linux driver available. Sure, I can buy a new video card and make it work, but that's more time and money
2) My kids are not native English speakers, so installing games requires me involved.
3) Maybe I will be able to get all my problems solved, but my time is expensive and important.

I am making the effort of working with ubuntu, and though my kids are complaining, they can't get their old windows back, at least for now. Just be aware that for a casual user, I still think it is just too hard to get EVERYTHING to work. Sure, most things work not bad, but every time there's something new.

Doron

[cmat]

It's a general perception that I get from people. Because 'linux cant play games' or some other crap. Rediculus. People participate in debates without knowing the subject matter.

If gaming was the only factor most companies would be using linux. GNU/Linux is ready for the desktop, but not ready for the user. Ubuntu is doing a really go job trying to get as Microsoft says "people ready". Open Source will eventually start to seriously dent proprietary software, since it's substantially better for the user (faster updates, requested features, stability, more platforms, free, etc). However, its going to be later than sooner unless more efforts are made for usability and convincing hardware developers that GNU/Linux is something to invest time in.

[kaziarl]

Well if you want a personal opinion based on experience with Vista. I now have Ubuntu because of how horrible Vista was. The only attraction is the eye candy. It's not very practical, and crashed more often then any system I've ever seen. So now I'm trying to teach myself how to use Ubuntu, something I should have done sooner, but since I tend to do tech support for Windows systems it's kind of been on the back burner.

[victor_c26]

Well if you want a personal opinion based on experience with Vista. I now have Ubuntu because of how horrible Vista was. The only attraction is the eye candy. It's not very practical, and crashed more often then any system I've ever seen. So now I'm trying to teach myself how to use Ubuntu, something I should have done sooner, but since I tend to do tech support for Windows systems it's kind of been on the back burner.

Are there really that many badly written drivers out there for devices?

I've been running Vista just fine, no crashes, no hiccups, no slowdown, and as stable as Ubuntu. All since day one [when Vista launched].

[Frak]

Are there really that many badly written drivers out there for devices?

I've been running Vista just fine, no crashes, no hiccups, no slowdown, and as stable as Ubuntu. All since day one [when Vista launched].
Me also, but Vista got really annoying after awhile.

[victor_c26]

Me also, but Vista got really annoying after awhile.

That's a perfectly good argument and reason.

Vista isn't for everybody. What ever you like, go for it.

I just like both Linux and Windows. It's like whenever I mention that fact, people expect my PC rig to spontaneously combust. That hasn't happened yet. :)

[FrankVdb]

That's why Vista is a big blessing for Linux and especially for Ubuntu!

I've never understood how it is possible that a multi-billion company like MS comes up with something so un-innovative like Vista. They needed five years to develop that rubbish. Canonical is putting new stuff into their distribution continuously, coming with new versions every six months.

If I would ever be so lucky to win the lottery, Canonical will be among the first benificiaries. These people (65 in all, right?) are simply doing a much better than Microsoft. That is friggin' unbelievable!

[madman1337]

Well if you want a personal opinion based on experience with Vista. I now have Ubuntu because of how horrible Vista was. The only attraction is the eye candy. It's not very practical, and crashed more often then any system I've ever seen.

I have Vista, and it runs completely stable. I have an uptime of over 23 days right now on my Vista machine, and I have had 0 crashes directly related to Vista. Not saying I haven't had crashes in Vista, but its typically something other than windows like a buggy program or an outdated driver, but vista itself has been stable. I have had unstable versions of linux, and I have had unstable versions of Windows, like Windows ME (quite possibly the worst OS ever made).

And there is another plus...shadowrun looks beautiful with full dx10 graphics...

Now yes, my Ubuntu 7.04 machine has had less crashes than the Vista one, but I have had some issues in Ubuntu with my sound card, but I feel that is more of a hardware issue with the mobo than a software issue in ubuntu. I personally use Ubuntu more than Vista, but that is just because it is easier for me to do better stuff in Ubuntu. Stability is not an issue for me at all.

Long live Ubuntu!

[poof]

I use both Windows Vista and Ubuntu Linux on the same PC. Each has it's own purpose indeed. :)

[ukripper]

I use both Windows Vista and Ubuntu Linux on the same PC. Each has it's own purpose indeed. :)

What purpose Vista serves you despite gaming?

[Dennis123]

Maybe programming. That's what it serves primarily for me.

[Chrisj303]

Maybe programming. That's what it serves primarily for me.

Maybe music production.

Maybe video editing.

Maybe VJ'ing.

And maybe, like what was mentioned earlier, games.

[victor_c26]

Maybe music production.

Maybe video editing.

Maybe VJ'ing.

And maybe, like what was mentioned earlier, games.

That and it's got it's own, huge, library of excellent programs made by community programmers and app creators that are available for free on the net.

Windows is defined by it's own dev community [and business purposes], just like Linux is defined by it's own dev, kernal, and Linux component/distro community [plus server implementations].

[xoron]

i used to have a pile of dump for a computer ... AMD duron, 56 MBRAM inbuilt grapgics and sound adapter....i had to re install windows soo often it was unbeleivable...having a firewall seriously cut down on performance....i installed ubuntu on it as a partition cos i was doing some research on it...never crached (thats right on that pile of cr*p it never crashed) i mena it didnt do anithing fancy...but it got my work done...i could browse the net make office documents

ubuntu i think is pretty good

dont get me wrong i am not against windows i mean the amount of support available for things like games works towards windows but if not for that ubuntu could easily better windows

oh yeh and MS mouse works better on ubuntu than in XP and as n'force driver...ubuntu dont even need to install the drivers for it!!

and bsides....UBUNTU IS FREEEE!!!!

[lorsban]

Hi guys,

I've got a semi-new laptop with vista home premium and an old laptop with Ubuntu 6.06. So, far my new laptop's collecting dust since I'd rather use a console for gaming and I have an mp3 player that acts like a removable disk and the Ubuntu is much much faster than my Vista ever was. Far less confusing as well. Best of all I don't need an antivirus/spyware program with Linux.

I also like the add/remove programs app in Ubuntu. Very handy and convenient. Faster, more intuitive, with a built in download utility. Light years ahead of windows add/remove app, if you ask me.

Ubuntu also gives me a photoshop-like utility, office, media player, burners etc, etc, all for free! You can't beat that. Sure, the vista's prettier but that doesn't really do much for me. I'd take speed and function over pretty anytime.

Once I figure out how to sync and install palm programs on Ubuntu, that's it for windows. I'm gonna turn my other laptop into a Linux one for sure. By the way, linux has some pretty good games as well.

lorsban

[roaldz]

I've got a new laptop (a BTO 15W23, it's a Dutch brand, in case you´re interested). It's got a core2duo T7200, so that's 2X2.0 Ghz with 4Mb L2 cache, and 2 Gb DDR2. Nvidia 7600GS 256 card.
I ordered it without a windows licence, so that saved me money and stress:) First I put on Kubuntu 7.04 AMD64, but I wanted to run beryl and later compiz, so I had to install ubuntu, becouse the glx effects didn't run smoothly on KDE. They do run smoothly under gnome, and i'm now on Gutsy, and I love it. I will promise to the ubuntu community: Windows will never touch my laptop! If I see all those new vista PC's, you can see them getting slower by just staring at them. Ubuntu always gave me high performance! Thank you ubuntu and thank you for your your wonderfull community and developers!!

Roald

[xpod]

Sure, the vista's prettier but that doesn't really do much for me. I'd take speed and function over pretty anytime.


I`m not so sure about that?

A default Ubuntu might not seem the "prettiest" coming from a shiney Vista but by time Ubuntu`s had a makeover it can sure make even Vista look kinda plain.

Ubuntu can even be made to look like Vista if you so desire so the comparison is pretty pointless in reality.

You`ll see:)

[ukripper]

I`m not so sure about that?

A default Ubuntu might not seem the "prettiest" coming from a shiney Vista but by time Ubuntu`s had a makeover it can sure make even Vista look kinda plain.

Ubuntu can even be made to look like Vista if you so desire so the comparison is pretty pointless in reality.

You`ll see:)

Beryl and Compiz already do that

[xpod]

Beryl and Compiz already do that

Thats what i meant:)

When i said "you`ll see" all i meant was that lorsban, seeming like a very very new user would see(realise) for himself soon enough.

I just kinda assumed they had`nt reaslied the potential yet......being so new:
Now that i think about it i`ve been using compiz/beryl for over a year but probably still dont know their full potential:)

[FrankVdb]

Here's how to install Vista in 2 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVbf9tOGwno

[Club17]

I just meet linux world, and my favourite is ubuntu w/gnome. 2 reasons affect my decision for it:

1st. Vista is under attack since betas releases of trojan & virus.

2nd. Hate Vista read and write my HD as crazy OS... why? Linux don't do it.

That's all. Just only personal commentary.

_____________

Here's how to install Vista in 2 minutes.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVbf9tOGwno

Edit: Nice video!

[cablejimmy]

Vista needs about 3 times the hardware resources than Ubuntu and that means a new box just to run Vista for a lot of folks. I think Vista will be very good for Ubuntu, an opportunity rather than a threat.

pwned

[snocap]

Of course it will. They are nothing in comparison with Linux. In fact really lots of people have changed to Linux after using this products.....

Yes indeed, I just recently switched over from windows due to what a horrible OS it is. I LOVE Linux and I would never switch back to XP. Oh and I say XP because I don't even consider Windows Vista to be a OS, it is a travesty. I had to use Vista for 2 weeks on a loaner PC while mine was in the shop and it was the worst OS I've ever used.

[Can+~]

Windows Vista... oh that crap that came with my father's laptop? Yeah sure:

It took about 13 minutes to boot! To the welcome screen. Then, after logging in, it took about 4 minutes to be ready(?) to use...

After that, I helped my father to remove some useless HP pre added stuff. First, disabled Norton and configured it to be less resource intensive. Then killed some useless services. The boot time descended to 6+2 minutes (boot+login).

Okay, boot time is "descent", but then is the running processes; as expect, microsoft likes to have 10 same-named services you don't know what the crap are they doing smss.exe, 5 svchost.exe, etc, etc. But the little "Aero-kinda-home-edition" thing, eats up the most, it's a freaking resource hog.

With some time, my father got used to it, until somehow, the "explorer.exe" started to get buggy for no reason. Sometimes, the "quick launch" buttons move all the way to the left behind "Start" Vista icon. When I fired the control panel the other day to configure the network, the window was completely messed up to the point that the borders were the only thing visible.

My father hates vista every day even more, but he won't install another OS because of the warranty, and he don't trust linux yet (working on that).

So Windows (Vista) vs Linux? Depends:
-If "which is lighter and stable" is the criteria, Linux wins.
-If "which has the best software compatibility" tie; Xp would be the winner, but Vista vs Linux, Linux wins, vista compatibility is awful.
-If "who has the biggest market share". Guess who.

For me? I have a dual boot of XP and Ubuntu Feisty installed, I miss some apps but, hell, Linux is amazing. Linux is the true winner, has always been the winner, only now we're discovering how awesome it is. :D

[lorsban]

I`m not so sure about that?

A default Ubuntu might not seem the "prettiest" coming from a shiney Vista but by time Ubuntu`s had a makeover it can sure make even Vista look kinda plain.

Ubuntu can even be made to look like Vista if you so desire so the comparison is pretty pointless in reality.

You`ll see:)

Oh yeah, I totally agree with you. With Ubuntu (linux) I can probably make it look like whatever I want but why would I want to emulate something like Vista when I can have it as simple as possible. If you remove the visuals from Vista, it's got nothing much more to offer.

[Osku]

Well, vista just makes your computer slow... and i don't think anyone has even got a good reason to upgrade their xp's to vista...
Anyways, i tried vista, i started to hate it soon, then i went to ubuntu.

[vishzilla]

my roomie jus got a Vista lappie. tell you, i dont miss a thing with Ubuntu, and he paid a lot to get his Vista :)

[frankos44]

Why compare with Vista?

Ubuntu is superior as any Linux system is, who cares what the next microsoft nightmare looks like or how daft you want the gnome desktop to look.

The point is Linux is stable, secure and gets the job done without spending half your life wondering if you have a virus that your virus checker dosent know about and throughing yet more money into a bottomless pit just to keep microsoft even useable.

Oh and your machine running slow while it does yet another scan while you are busy trying to get on with your work and endless messages rudely interrupting you and taking the focus away from the window you are working on, realising the last statement you typed went knowhere!

What an earth are they thinking about at microsoft.. I know of course, Money and greed, impress all the idiots out there so if it looks good, it must be!

[Frak]

Why compare with Vista?

Ubuntu is superior as any Linux system is, who cares what the next microsoft nightmare looks like or how daft you want the gnome desktop to look.

The point is Linux is stable, secure and gets the job done without spending half your life wondering if you have a virus that your virus checker dosent know about and throughing yet more money into a bottomless pit just to keep microsoft even useable.

Oh and your machine running slow while it does yet another scan while you are busy trying to get on with your work and endless messages rudely interrupting you and taking the focus away from the window you are working on, realising the last statement you typed went knowhere!

What an earth are they thinking about at microsoft.. I know of course, Money and greed, impress all the idiots out there so if it looks good, it must be!
Technically, Ubuntu is in the market against Microsoft.

[Circus-Killer]

when i bought my current laptop, vista basic came with it.

now, already from the start i had planned to use ubuntu on it, but i thought hell, let me give vista a chance. i spent +- ZAR2800 (south african rands) for home premium (compare that price, to my laptop price of ZAR3500).

i knew it was going to be a waist of money, but i figured there would only be one way to be sure. so i gave home premium a try....and my world, i will never install that hoohah again.

first off, after a couple of reboots, stuff randomly stops working (and in windows, lets face it, you reboot more than you use your pc). and i would consider myself an IT professional, and can fix almost any problem in XP (and most problems i run into in ubuntu). vista was another story. eventually, i through up my hands, and installed ubuntu.

the vista disc is now sitting in the corner of my room collecting dust. at least i know now what i want and where to get it from.

(and on a side note, both doom3 and quake4 run better in ubuntu than they did in XP or vista!

oh, and also that in vista, my laptop felt like it had bricks tied to its processes. ubuntu seems to glide along like a beast!)

[linux phreak]

Vista is slower and way less secure than ubuntu period.

[perixx]

Vista is one of my major helpers in the decision of looking for a new OS - it's nothing but a rip-off to every user, whatever his intentions might be!

The only contact I had with it so far was, when I tried to set some new password for the WLAN access and it just wouldn't store the new password, for whatever stupid reason. I've read enough about this OS and the strategies behind to know what I have to boycott.

So I acquired a rather cheap XP professional version for the gaming. And I'm using Linux for internet access for over a year now. Just too bad that Linux isn't ready for all the games, yet. That would've spared me XP :D

perixx

[kaar3l]

I tested vista for 2 weeks and that made me try linux, have been almost a year linux, xp for gameing only.

My friend has vista, takes hell of a lot time to boot up. I shared some files for him, he started to copy and vista crashed, after restart he got them. :/
no more vista!

[joe.turion64x2]

I tested vista for 2 weeks and that made me try linux, have been almost a year linux, xp for gameing only.

My friend has vista, takes hell of a lot time to boot up. I shared some files for him, he started to copy and vista crashed, after restart he got them. :/
no more vista!
Vista does not have a year in the market yet. And yes, it crashes/takes a lot for the simplest copy & paste actions.

[perixx]

I'd say, unless they are successful in turning down open source via 'legal' processes, there's possibly no need for 'hunting M$ down'...

They do a much better job for themselves due to increasing megalomania and showing intentional contempt to their customers... wow! :)

Time will prove it...
'Whizta' go!! :mrgreen:

Maybe it's time for the US-congress to learn a lesson from the Council of Europe. Besides, what's the difference between the Standard Oil Company and Wintel in principle, anyways?


perixx

[taggat]

For me it was simple.
I had a laptop (a Compaq Evo N200 with a 700mhz P3 mobile, 192mb of RAM and a 4mb video card running XP) that blew its battery... literally.
Without alot of money I choose a Dell Inspiron 1501. It came with a duel core 2.0Ghz AMD 64bit Turion, 1gb of Ram 256mg video card and unfortunately Windows Vista basic.
The fact the old 700mhz machine started up faster launched programs faster and general felt faster killed Vista for me. A duel core 2.0Gmz machine should always be faster than a 700mhz machine. Vista is bloatware for machines that don't exist in real life.

[michiel.patrick]

I am in msdnaa alliance and i get vista and a ton of other software for free if i download it and for cheap if i order it ($17.00). i got visual studio for $12.00 with all sql. I will give it a try and let everyone know for sure. I have used it just playing around and honestly cannot complain. Linux is still rough around the edges as far as being 'user friendly'. Once it takes care of this problem then the sky is the limit. I am in xp now because something happened to Ubuntu and it will not boot up. If it wasnt for this then i would be in ubuntu because my battery life is so much better.

[Soarer]

Quote from someone on 'TheRegister' who is actually in favour of Vista:

VISTA compatibility and stability
By Anonymous Coward
Posted Sunday 14th October 2007 00:46 GMT

Windows VISTA and all products that are expected to work with the new OS will take time to mature.

I've been using the new OS for more than a month now on a custom-built PC and I am still trying to solve interoperability and stability issues.

Windows VISTA comes with advantages compared to XP. If you are buying a VISTA PC, make sure it comes preinstalled from a trusted manufacturer and accompanied by compatible peripherals.

http://www.channelregister.co.uk/2007/10/13/dutch_consumer_association_declares_war/

[Frak]

I am in msdnaa alliance and i get vista and a ton of other software for free if i download it and for cheap if i order it ($17.00). i got visual studio for $12.00 with all sql. I will give it a try and let everyone know for sure. I have used it just playing around and honestly cannot complain. Linux is still rough around the edges as far as being 'user friendly'. Once it takes care of this problem then the sky is the limit. I am in xp now because something happened to Ubuntu and it will not boot up. If it wasnt for this then i would be in ubuntu because my battery life is so much better.
Same here

Our school is in MSDNAA, and I am an MSDN Premium member, for $5469.00 per year, half paid by the state.

Don't use it, could care.

[jean noel]

Don't forget that you have to buy a seperate licence every time you re install windows on a pc.
Suddenly ubuntu feels worth a million ;-)

[hescominsoon]

Microsoft Windows Vista and Microsoft Office 2007 are on the horizon, including new fancy graphic user interfaces... is Ubuntu Linux likely to survive against such strong competition?

John

Strong competition? yeah right. vista is the epitome of bloat. I had a vista mahcine here(it's ubuntu now) all the prettiness int he world doesn't mean jack if hte system requires 3 times the power to simply boot.

http://www.hescominsoon.com/archives/791

[perixx]

Well, the only profit out of Vi$ta is for M$' $hareholder$ and partner companie$, who 'work together' in order to increa$e the profit.

Over 5 Billion$$$ after-tax-profit - only by '$elling' Vi$ta-lincence$ - no problem if you can pu$h any computer vendor into $hipping his $tuff with Vi$ta, backed by good friend$ in global hardware player'$ firm$, content indu$trie$, media industrie$, §aw$ and politic$. Who care$ if that crap work$ like people want it to, when it produce$ ca$h. \\:D/

I asked for a new PC or laptop with XP installed, not Vi$ta, nearly everywhere. Guess what, no chance - even months ago!

perixx

[screaminj3sus]

Well, the only profit out of Vi$ta is for M$' $hareholder$ and partner companie$, who 'work together' in order to increa$e the profit.

Over 5 Billion$$$ after-tax-profit - only by '$elling' Vi$ta-lincence$ - no problem if you can pu$h any computer vendor into $hipping his $tuff with Vi$ta, backed by good friend$ in global hardware player'$ firm$, content indu$trie$, media industrie$, §aw$ and politic$. Who care$ if that crap work$ like people want it to, when it produce$ ca$h. \\:D/

I asked for a new PC or laptop with XP installed, not Vi$ta, nearly everywhere. Guess what, no chance - even months ago!

perixx

u$ing Dollar signs makes you cool!

[Dennis123]

I hope that wasn'n meant $arcastically

[perixx]

Moneeeyy !!! Yepp !! RULEZ!!!!!

_/\__/\_
=Ö-Ö=
`\_O_/´
``VV´´
ooo__ooo

:lolflag:

[ukripper]

u$ing Dollar signs makes you cool!
I'll stick to £

[argie]

I'll stick to £

Ah ha M$ vs. £inux. Brilliant. I think we've entered a new era.

[perixx]

Well, maybe ;)


But honestly - I believe that Ubuntu is (among many other Linux-Distro's of course) an essential contribution to the anti-commercial, if not anti-materialistic 'wave' in the (global) society. It's part and supporter of a freedom-loving generation, be it intentionally or not.

I can't think of Vista anything else but being 99,5% made for 'producing' maximum profits - even more, if considering the methods used by MS; reading statements of Mr. Ballmer, suggesting that MS has recognized the 'threat' coming out of Linux and it's so-called software-patent violations and that he's 'owing the shareholders' to sort of taking care of the problem - what to say about this - speaks for itself.

About more than 90% of all computers worldwide run their OS's, thus MS probably carries also more than 90% of the yields out of OS-sales worldwide. But the company is 'threatened' - so they need the rest of 10%.
And then go pushing the prices a little more and go god knows where - the modern shareholder value's doctrine demands at least 15% growth a year - but these are no secrets.

Just ask yourself, what has this to do with freedom and democracy? Looking into the virtualization-techniques introduced by the hardware-vendors -- all of being support by Vista, of course -- and how they're used by this system, can be a bit scary. :-k

[By the way, I'd say, encryption methods that need a high-end PC running for the decoding (like HDDVD) are most harmful to the environment - and what for? Just to ensure the ludicrous growth margins of the content industries... yep, them all going along pretty well!]

So, perhaps it's better for us all, if Linux can make the change now, for otherwise it would probably be too late for a very long time ... I assume that even for some major players in the game, MS' role on the software-market has become dubious at best by now, encouraging them to jump onto the Linux-train! - At least I hope so!!!
:)

perixx

[bluedragon436]

Well I have now converted all of my computers in my house over to Ubuntu, two of them from XP and two of them from Vista. I have also gotten other people that I know to convert over from both of these OS's, and not a one of them has regretted it...so I think Ubuntu will have no problem standing up and possibly surpassing Vista, but that is just my opinion.

[KashvW]

Vista is the reason I switched to Ubuntu. I have a gig of memory in this machine and I couldn't run a virus scan and open folder lock at the same time.

[Jammy4041]

I think Ubuntu is an operating system with a lot of potential. I knew nothing of it until I got a Cd, which had Fiesty on it. I have since downloaded Gutsy and have never looked back. I will still need windows, but I would NEVER think of using vista. I will need XP to use Flash, but once Adobe releases Flash for Ubuntu, it will be one less thing I need for windows.

My point is, Ubuntu will be a force in the future, especially as dell is releasing ubuntu preinstalled.

Other companies are bound to follow suit, and then who knows??
And the best bit...Ubuntu IS FREE and it had A FREE OFFICE SUITE. I do not want to pay XXX amount of money for an office suite when I can get an equally capable office suite for free.
That's good enouth for me!

James

[Frak]

I think Ubuntu is an operating system with a lot of potential. I knew nothing of it until I got a Cd, which had Fiesty on it. I have since downloaded Gutsy and have never looked back. I will still need windows, but I would NEVER think of using vista. I will need XP to use Flash, but once Adobe releases Flash for Ubuntu, it will be one less thing I need for windows.

My point is, Ubuntu will be a force in the future, especially as dell is releasing ubuntu preinstalled.

Other companies are bound to follow suit, and then who knows??
And the best bit...Ubuntu IS FREE and it had A FREE OFFICE SUITE. I do not want to pay XXX amount of money for an office suite when I can get an equally capable office suite for free.
That's good enouth for me!

James
I'm in the middle of packaging f4l (flash 4 linux) but you can get it here:
http://f4l.sourceforge.net/

[ayllu]

Microsoft Windows Vista and Microsoft Office 2007 are on the horizon, including new fancy graphic user interfaces... is Ubuntu Linux likely to survive against such strong competition?

John

Jajaja, What!!! did you see Ubuntu Gusty!!!, who's the best, Ubuntu is 100 time better than Windows.
No competition, this is not a commercial software!!!. You get all free, the most important think, you get free technical support. No way, Windows es the target for all the viruses. Who want to have that, not whit internet. Windows + internet = losing Files, spywares, viruses, actually your computer is a time bomb you never know when is gonna crash.

[holihue]

take a look at this:
Linux is NOT Windows (http://linux.oneandoneis2.org/LNW.htm)

[PhenixRising]

Ubuntu works just fine for me and its even better since I am poor and can not afford to pay for all of the programs. I could have gone the hacked route but that is just not a good way to go.

I have had a few problems with Ubuntu. My current one is that the clock has malfunctioned. The time now moves at about 5-6x slower than normal. I'll have to figure this out but I don't mind. XP would do the same thing to me anyway.

I only need a PC to listen to music, watch dvds, put together basic power point, excel, and word documents. I don't mess around with much else on the computer.

O and I built this computer on my own so I have to buy each product separately. If I build a computer with free software it frees up a lot of money to put into hardware. And now with Ubuntu I've discovered I do not even need to build a new computer. This computer has 512 ram and 2500 AMD. It runs fine. My next purchase will be a new harddrive since my current one is closing in on 5 years.

Since I am planning on returning to college I have not converted an old laptop to Ubuntu. It still runs XP and it has no chance of ever using vista. Vista is such a resource hog. My sister has it and I thought it was clumsy.

[THEDARKNESSHASCOME]

KK people the solution is very simple niether will become obsoliete.

vista won't go down because of its cababilities, and its new addons
btw thier already making a new windows for 2009.

and linux won't die out because us hackers need something that can keep up with us. plus everything is free.

but windows has somemany people cracking the software these days its like its all fre software anyway you just need to be smart enough to keep up.

btw your best bet is to stick with both.

even a small 1gb ram intel dual processor-1.8giga hurts

can dual boot linux and windows vista no problem:KS

[Frak]

vista won't go down because of its cababilities, and its new addons
btw thier already making a new windows for 2009.

Vienna? :-s

The roadmap gives it a good 3-4 years before its completed.

[perixx]

PhenixRising,

your slow PC-clock-problem is linked to your hardware, not the OS's. It (might) help to renew your motherboard's battery (or your clock's, if there's a separate one). If not, I'm afraid there's nothing much else left but to change your motherboard. Or you let your system's clock be periodically updated via an (NTP?) timeserver-service.

perixx

[Frak]

PhenixRising,

your slow PC-clock-problem is linked to your hardware, not the OS's. It (might) help to renew your motherboard's battery (or your clock's, if there's a separate one). If not, I'm afraid there's nothing much else left but to change your motherboard. Or you let your system's clock be periodically updated via an (NTP?) timeserver-service.

perixx
Most motherboards have a nickel-ion "Quarter Size" Battery on the motherboard. Just go to your local radio shack, buy one, pop out the old, and in with the new. Should work fine.

Also, enable NTP support. You don't need a BIOS clock for that.

[perixx]

Well, it's maybe better to have a look at the mobo first, in order to find out if it's a rechargable storage battery (must be a very old mobo then) or a Lithium-coin-cell (AFAIK, Nickel has gotten off fashion for such applications, Frak - Lithium batteries are also lasting considerably longer).

Perhaps you can describe, how to set up the NTP server in Linux? I'd like to know, too :]


perixx

[Frak]

Right Click on the clock->Adjust Time & Date->[Enter Password]->Configuration->Sync With Internet Servers->[Enter Password]->Close

EDIT
Meant Nickel-Cadmium, not Nickel-Ion

[perixx]

Thanks Frak... can I specify the server manually somewhere?

perixx

[Frak]

Thanks Frak... can I specify the server manually somewhere?

perixx
Goto Select Servers -> [Enter server in box or choose from the list] -> If added from list click "Add" -> Close -> Close

[limac]

vista still remains as vista. A lot of problems in it. no kidding. wireless connctions get lost into some other universe. and god knows what other problems it consists of. Linux on the other hand it linux. THE BEST. i technically never used macintosh computers before, so no opinion about them. But linux is simply TREMENDOUS.

[THEDARKNESSHASCOME]

vista still remains as vista. A lot of problems in it. no kidding. wireless connctions get lost into some other universe. and god knows what other problems it consists of. Linux on the other hand it linux. THE BEST. i technically never used macintosh computers before, so no opinion about them. But linux is simply TREMENDOUS.

are you on crack?

windows vista does have a little while to go more like a year, although they are already making a new verion of windows for 09

but nothing is perfect!

for example with linux the 2nd biggest problem is the fact you need to download something for every little thing you do even after you have fully updated thier are more updates for it, gutsy gibbson i admit is alot better then fieasty fawn ubuntu 7.04 but they still share alot of the same flaws.

first major problem i have is how easy linux is to hack into i spent 5 minutes infront of the computer and i already found out how to remove admin pass and accounts and got super user access over root, mind you i had just took up linux.

vista has a share of its problems also just like linux

for example windows caps your modem to 14.4k per secound downloads. along with how much ram it takes up. but as long as you know what the hell your doing its a very liberating experience. just like linux is--linux has more stuff thats for sure.:lolflag:

[Frak]

Oh yes, I can see in the future
Originally Posted In The Future
Today Windows for '09 has been released, it is simply amazing, all except for the spying on you bug, which is actively being fixed.

This has been your news for the date of 2014

[THEDARKNESSHASCOME]

Originally Posted In The Future
Today Windows for '09 has been released, it is simply amazing, all except for the spying on you bug, which is actively being fixed.

This has been your news for the date of 2014

for starters can i barrow you time machine btw don't you think you could have atleast type in a fake name for the new version of windows, because they would specify which version of windows thier talking about.

and only people who are completely retarded don't sever off all connections with windows once they get thier computer, linux btw is alot worse in the field of spyware, and being hackable, so get your facts straight before posting again:guitar: thank you frak your the only one that actually bothers to retaliate, question others motives

[Frak]

THEDARKNESSHASCOME has been added to your ignore list.

If you can't retaliate with a good response, I have no reason to listen to you.

[Tris2006]

linux btw is alot worse in the field of spyware, and being hackable

:shock: Say what?!?! I dont want to get in the middle of a flame war or anything. But that was just... LOL-able. And who would let a Hacker into there house to mess with their computer anyway? I mean really...

[forevertheuni]

are you on crack?

windows vista does have a little while to go more like a year, although they are already making a new verion of windows for 09

but nothing is perfect!

for example with linux the 2nd biggest problem is the fact you need to download something for every little thing you do even after you have fully updated thier are more updates for it, gutsy gibbson i admit is alot better then fieasty fawn ubuntu 7.04 but they still share alot of the same flaws.

first major problem i have is how easy linux is to hack into i spent 5 minutes infront of the computer and i already found out how to remove admin pass and accounts and got super user access over root, mind you i had just took up linux.

vista has a share of its problems also just like linux

for example windows caps your modem to 14.4k per secound downloads. along with how much ram it takes up. but as long as you know what the hell your doing its a very liberating experience. just like linux is--linux has more stuff thats for sure.:lolflag:
I don't get it..Windows comes..with?It can only suft the web and play videos..nothing else.
Actually lol try to press F8 and start in safety mode at windows...noone specifies admin password...it's easy to go around it.

[Frak]

I advocate everyone responding to this thread to stop listening to THEDARKNESSHASCOME. He has proven himself as a troll, and we should treat him like one.

THEDARKNESSHASCOME, once you get your facts straight and start acting a little more humble, we will listen, but there is no reason ANYONE should listen to your responses ATM.

[dougmorin]

It really bugs me that people insist on comparing windows to linux.

The sooner microsoft goes out of business the better off everyone will be.

plus... microsoft going out of business will drive abobe to make their products linux compatable, which would be GREAT for me :) ... or they would stick to macintosh which isnt as bad (if you have the money).

[perixx]

Hmm... so you h4X0r3d into "a" Linux system....

first major problem i have is how easy linux is to hack into i spent 5 minutes infront of the computer and i already found out how to remove admin pass and accounts and got super user access over root, mind you i had just took up linux.

Intriguing... I'd really like to have a share of the outclassing knowledge of a real crack-H4x0r. So go along and share your wisdom with others and help them making their inferior systems as bullet-proof as your superior Vista system, please!

After all - perhaps you can yet persuade a long-term-but-not-much-longer-Windows-user to rush into the next second-hand store and get a legal-process-proof copy of Vista right now :]


perixx

[THEDARKNESSHASCOME]

:shock: Say what?!?! I dont want to get in the middle of a flame war or anything. But that was just... LOL-able. And who would let a Hacker into there house to mess with their computer anyway? I mean really...

don't you know anything? seriously you don't need to be infront of the computer to get into it.
when you log into the internet with linux you are completely exposed.....not that im saying that with windows its imposible to get into but it is alot easier to hack into a linux computer then a windows computer.

Im agreeing that they both have flaws after all me and my friends for fun hook up to the internet and find ways to hack each others computers for fun, and sofar linux has proven to be alot easier toget into.

[THEDARKNESSHASCOME]

I don't get it..Windows comes..with?It can only suft the web and play videos..nothing else.
Actually lol try to press F8 and start in safety mode at windows...noone specifies admin password...it's easy to go around it.

for one when you boot into safe mode you cant make new admin users....btw linux can be accesed from the net and get admin access with almost no effort.

and obveously you know nothing about windows if you believe that all you can do is access the web and play media.

im not bashing on you btw im just informing you im not one to bash on others types on life styles

[ryanVickers]

Microsoft Windows Vista and Microsoft Office 2007 are on the horizon, including new fancy graphic user interfaces... is Ubuntu Linux likely to survive against such strong competition?

OMG, your kidding, right?! :p As always, new users are rare, but the one3s we've got aren't going to leave, ever, over something as insignificant as this! :p

This, to me at least, sounds the same as if someone walked up to you and said, "Hey, there's a big semi truck heading right for you! Do you think it'll be OK after impact?" :lolflag:

[THEDARKNESSHASCOME]

Hmm... so you h4X0r3d into "a" Linux system....



Intriguing... I'd really like to have a share of the outclassing knowledge of a real crack-H4x0r. So go along and share your wisdom with others and help them making their inferior systems as bullet-proof as your superior Vista system, please!

After all - perhaps you can yet persuade a long-term-but-not-much-longer-Windows-user to rush into the next second-hand store and get a legal-process-proof copy of Vista right now :]


perixx


if there is something your curiose about just ask, but i believe in owning both linux and windows vista.
to get the best out of both worlds, but thats just me some people are to obliviouse to the idea of having windows vista. i believe this to be because windows had a reputation for having a back door in the progrm for police use, and spyware incase you were using anything illegal. Windows vista is completely different though you just have to get use to it for a couple days but after that it is really awesome. thier is absolutely nospyware, unless a person is dumb enough to allow windows to add it........which only occured with older versions of windows, that is why i only stic with software for windows vista, or software made by other companies for windows, for example windows xp was a complete tragety.

[THEDARKNESSHASCOME]

I advocate everyone responding to this thread to stop listening to THEDARKNESSHASCOME. He has proven himself as a troll, and we should treat him like one.

THEDARKNESSHASCOME, once you get your facts straight and start acting a little more humble, we will listen, but there is no reason ANYONE should listen to your responses ATM.

if im a troll what would that make you?

honestly you may know something but its obv. you are not use to change you mac people are all the same

[ryanVickers]

Frak: "I rest my case"

right? ;)

[perixx]

*yawn*... I'm tired of listening to nebulous stories containing nothing but blazing fits of hot air ...
unless you cough up with something concrete, please move over to some Vista blog and bother people there.

This is really no interesting conversation in any aspect.

bye

perixx

[Frak]

Frak: "I rest my case"

right? ;)
You pretty much hit the nail on the head :guitar:

[THEDARKNESSHASCOME]

*yawn*... I'm tired of listening to nebulous stories containing nothing but blazing fits of hot air ...
unless you cough up with something concrete, please move over to some Vista blog and bother people there.

This is really no interesting conversation in any aspect.

bye

perixx

are you talking about me?

[SarahKH]

don't you know anything? seriously you don't need to be infront of the computer to get into it.
when you log into the internet with linux you are completely exposed.....not that im saying that with windows its imposible to get into but it is alot easier to hack into a linux computer then a windows computer.

Im agreeing that they both have flaws after all me and my friends for fun hook up to the internet and find ways to hack each others computers for fun, and sofar linux has proven to be alot easier toget into.

Ahh. I see what your misconception is. Not every Linux machine in the world will be running SSH or Telnet. My machine most certainly is not, nor is it running the usual listener services that Windows (or a Linux machine talking to Windows machines) runs. This makes it exceptionally difficult to assault over the internet.

Spyware or considering just how detrimental a systems health it is, Malware, is a fact of life for Windows. it is not simply a question "If you let it install" the most common vector for malware is drive-by infection using ActiveX modules/Javascript and just plain exploiting holes in Internet Explorer. No user interaction, other than browsing the internet is required.

I have read some of your previous posts and I belive you are greatly mistaken; you have happened across a single machine and got lucky, the "I've got super-user over root" is meaningless. Root is the superuser, you either have the password for this account or you do not. Sudo won't cut it.

[THEDARKNESSHASCOME]

Ahh. I see what your misconception is. Not every Linux machine in the world will be running SSH or Telnet. My machine most certainly is not, nor is it running the usual listener services that Windows (or a Linux machine talking to Windows machines) runs. This makes it exceptionally difficult to assault over the internet.

Spyware or considering just how detrimental a systems health it is, Malware, is a fact of life for Windows. it is not simply a question "If you let it install" the most common vector for malware is drive-by infection using ActiveX modules/Javascript and just plain exploiting holes in Internet Explorer. No user interaction, other than browsing the internet is required.

I have read some of your previous posts and I belive you are greatly mistaken; you have happened across a single machine and got lucky, the "I've got super-user over root" is meaningless. Root is the superuser, you either have the password for this account or you do not. Sudo won't cut it.

im not talking about accessing i know if you type in sudo root it askes for a pass, but you don't need root access inorder to take over a persons come although it does make it easier. one of the ways is to remove roots pass take this in mind that you don't need to be an admin to do this over the internet, every linux computer is the same, the only difference is the look and what they are able to run there for they are suseptable. Another way is to creat a new group and add root to the group and add your user to that account of course after you have made your user and tyhen you can remove root from admin group and all other users from admin on the computer and then you are free to terorize the computer anyway you wan't
and all of this can be done in 3 lines of code. and if you read my prev. posts you would have seen me and my friends perposely taking turns hacking into each others computers inorder to make them more secure, and that windows was more secure.

[Frak]

im not talking about accessing i know if you type in sudo root it askes for a pass, but you don't need root access inorder to take over a persons come although it does make it easier. one of the ways is to remove roots pass take this in mind that you don't need to be an admin to do this over the internet, every linux computer is the same, the only difference is the look and what they are able to run there for they are suseptable. Another way is to creat a new group and add root to the group and add your user to that account of course after you have made your user and tyhen you can remove root from admin group and all other users from admin on the computer and then you are free to terorize the computer anyway you wan't
and all of this can be done in 3 lines of code. and if you read my prev. posts you would have seen me and my friends perposely taking turns hacking into each others computers inorder to make them more secure, and that windows was more secure.

You are a great script kiddie, I could almost believe you, but...
Only ROOT can add ROOT to a group.
Only ROOT can remove ROOT from a group.
Only ROOT can do anything that can damage a system
Only ROOT can do anything to fix a system.

Nice try though, I'll give you some credit for trying.

[Tris2006]

Maybe show us you hacked into a computer that you do not own, and do not know what the ROOT is. Then we might respect you a little... Till then...

[Tris2006]

Ok, going back on topic...

Windows Vs Linux

Viruses have been written for Windows, many thousand have been propagated. Users are advised to install and run anti-virus programs. Rootkits and worms are also prevalent, and may be combined with viruses, in order to further increase propagation.

File viruses have been written for Linux, none has yet propagated successfully.
There are, however, so-called worms that infect Linux machines. However, only one has achieved limited propagation. Some rootkits also exist.

On Windows, over 11,000 malware programs surfaced in 2005 alone.

On Linux, only 800 were ever witnessed. Mostly browser-based, identical to the ones targeting windows (toolbars, extensions etc.)

Open Souce vs Closed

Windows claims its platform is more secure because its code is hidden, thus providing security by obscurity. Only company programmers can fix bugs. Due to closed source cannot be certified for secure or military use in some countries. Some government officials expressed concerns that Windows may contain hidden spyware.

Linux claims its platform is more secure because all of its code is reviewed by so many people that bugs become visible, a phenomenon (known as Linus's law).

Closed Source Claims it offers a faster and more effective response to security issues, though critical bug fixes are only released once a month after extensive programming and testing, and are then automatically inserted into the system often patching bugs in a matter of hours.

Open Source code allows any person to help fix the bug, rather than a small group of programmers, Linux could generally be assumed to get faster patches for security holes.

Impact of Viruses

Many Desktop computers and Laptops on Windows would crash or run slowly affecting business front offices and home users. Botnets, networks of infected computers controlled by malicious persons are prevalent. Some botnets with over 1,000,000 computers have been witnessed. Most botnets are used for spamming purposes. Spyware and adware may reveal private data (surfing habits, webpages visited, activity logs) to 3rd parties. Keyloggers and some worms may reveal sensitive information (bank accounts, personal data) to attackers. Other vulnerabilities allow full control over the computer from the outside.

On Linux, viruses can make computers run slowly. None have successfully propagated on a network of Linux systems (lacking root access). Propagation without root access is nearly impossible.


User Accounts

Under Windows Vista, all users (even those running as "administrator") run with standard user permissions, elevating as needed though a User Account Control dialogue. Under previous versions of Windows, home users typically ran as (full) administrator, allowing malicious programs full control over the system. Most businesses run force their users to run as non-privileged users to protect their systems and their business assets.

Under Linux, users typically run as limited accounts, preventing malicious programs from gaining total control of the system. Applications are usually not compromised and, most importantly, access to the network are limited for the virus, denying propagation, and preventing automatic distribution. Also, because of lack of access to the startup scripts, the virus can have a very hard time running for as long as the system does, therefore having a very limited impact.

[Frak]

Great Post Tris2006 =D>

[ryanVickers]

yeah! :p

[perixx]

Ok, as much as I enjoy discussing MS vs. Linux stories - maybe time now to change this thread into
'How to treat babbling FUD-trolls'...
:]

ToDo-list:

1. click troll's name above post, to view profile, e.g. 'ICANTFINDTHELIGHTSWITCH'

2. under 'Forum Info' look for 'posts', e.g.
'Find all posts by BLAHBLAHSOMETHING'

3. read unqualified and dispraising posts (if any and if you feel like it) - when there are no serious questions or contributions regarding Ubuntu to find, go over to step 4.

4. Add the FUD to your ignore list e.g. by clicking
'Add THEFUDGETTINGONYOURNERVES to Your Ignore List'

Et voilà! 8)


Lao-Tse suggests, that step 4 especially applies when the person's posts consist of conglomerations of ominous indications, personal insults and the likes, plus a horrible writing style, so no one can make a clear sense out of anything... {|;^)

[Frak]

P3r1XX Y0u |\/|/\D3 /\ GR3/\T P05T. :lolflag:

[ryanVickers]

yeah, but then goes your source of entertainment... :(

:lolflag: ;)

[THEDARKNESSHASCOME]

Great Post Tris2006 =D>

you don't know anything if you believe root can only add root

and you don't need to be root to do this stuff god

[ryanVickers]

well, that's true if the user has changed his permissions to allow anyone to modify the system, but other than that, no. :p

Just stop while your behind :p

[Frak]

you don't know anything if you believe root can only add root

and you don't need to be root to do this stuff god

Your hole is getting deeper. Save yourself the trouble by burying the shovel.
The Permissions for / is rw-------. That means only ROOT can read and write.

[perixx]

hehe - source of entertainment!
You definitely got a point there ;D

But we don't want to just make fun of the topic 'Linux vs. Vista' - are we? ^^

now back to the roots - oh, well... whatever - :rolleyes:
:-\"

perixx

[joe.turion64x2]

Your hole is getting deeper. Save yourself the trouble by burying the shovel.
The Permissions for / is rw-------. That means only ROOT can read and write.
When you run from a liveCD you get root permissions and from there you can edit the file containing the passwords/users in an installed *nix system (provided the drive isn't encrypted). It remains to be seen though if that can be achieved from internet as well.

I had to "hack" that way (with liveCD) one of my machines when I forgot the root password :confused:

[Frak]

When you run from a liveCD you get root permissions and from there you can edit the file containing the passwords/users in an installed *nix system (provided the drive isn't encrypted). It remains to be seen though if that can be achieved from internet as well.

I had to "hack" that way (with liveCD) one of my machines when I forgot the root password :confused:
Yes, but all the usernames and passwords are encrypted under randomly generated hash, from which it is nearly impossible to get the correct seed to decrypt it.

Only Aysiu has found the "No Password" Hash, but it has different effects on different machines when using the LiveCD. Since the file containing the user/pass are viewed differently per user because of the different hashes/seeds.

[ryanVickers]

When you run from a liveCD you get root permissions and from there you can edit the file containing the passwords/users in an installed *nix system (provided the drive isn't encrypted). It remains to be seen though if that can be achieved from internet as well...

If you actually can just liveCD into any computer with full permission, which I would really doubt, then this is a critical security flaw and must be dealt with immediately!!! :mad:

[Frak]

If you actually can just liveCD into any computer with full permission, which I would really doubt, then this is a critical security flaw and must be dealt with immediately!!! :mad:
Back in Breezy Badger this was addressed and fixed in under 3 days.

[ryanVickers]

ok, good.[-(

:)

[joe.turion64x2]

Yes, but all the usernames and passwords are encrypted under randomly generated hash, from which it is nearly impossible to get the correct seed to decrypt it.

Only Aysiu has found the "No Password" Hash, but it has different effects on different machines when using the LiveCD. Since the file containing the user/pass are viewed differently per user because of the different hashes/seeds.
True, passwords are encrypted, but if you just delete the 'password string' for a given user (say root), you get access (null password) to that user.

[joe.turion64x2]

If you actually can just liveCD into any computer with full permission, which I would really doubt, then this is a critical security flaw and must be dealt with immediately!!! :mad:
Indeed, if that can be achieved from internet it would be a major problem. I only know to do it from a CD-ROM tray :popcorn: (in front of the actual machine), provided it boots from CD first.

[Frak]

True, passwords are encrypted, but if you just delete the 'password string' for a given user (say root), you get access (null password) to that user.

It wouldn't let you in, still, because the hash for no password is
$1$2TUdk8Z0$tb2Fn6Idgo8dq9EgYv4xZ0
But that is translated different when it is physically booted into the original system. They hash would change.

Indeed, if that can be achieved from internet it would be a major problem. I only know to do it from a CD-ROM tray :popcorn: (in front of the actual machine), provided it boots from CD first.

Yes, but you actually have to be in front of the machine, so there really is no point in the first place. Nobody can get you from the internet unless you let them in.

[perixx]

Apart from that, it was still the matter of accessing the PC via internet, if I'm not mistaken - and that's some completely different story than sitting in front of a machine, isn't it?


I don't know if the 'avahi daemon' poses a potential security issue; but as a standard there are no telnet and shares services installed to Ubuntu, I believe - are there?

I'm not sure about ssh, since I can spot it in the tasks-list when doing 'ps -ux' in the Terminal...
I couldn't tell in which way those might be troublesome, though. I'm just beginning to dig a little into Linux' services and networking abilities.

From XP prof. I know, that there's an option to deny any remote logins from anonymous users - even any user at all, if needed. What would be the analog function in Xubuntu to that, I don't know - or if it does accept any remote login requests by default...

I'm curious what the X-server would act like without being started with the -nolistentcp option, by the way.


perixx

[Frak]

Apart from that, it was still the matter of accessing the PC via internet, if I'm not mistaken - and that's some completely different story than sitting in front of a machine, isn't it?


I don't know if the 'avahi daemon' poses a potential security issue; but as a standard there are no telnet and shares services installed to Ubuntu, I believe - are there?

I'm not sure about ssh, since I can spot it in the tasks-list when doing 'ps -ux' in the Terminal...
I couldn't tell in which way those might be troublesome, though. I'm just beginning to dig a little into Linux' services and networking abilities.

From XP prof. I know, that there's an option to deny any remote logins from anonymous users - even any user at all, if needed. What would be the analog function in Xubuntu to that, I don't know - or if it does accept any remote login requests by default...

I'm curious what the X-server would act like without being started with the -nolistentcp option, by the way.


perixx
Ubuntu will prompt you if somebody tries to remotely access your machine without permission, just open up the terminal, your BIOS will beep, and output will follow in the terminal.

[GearedForWar]

Just remember Vista is meant for home use, not business in my opinion. With the new graphics its going to be RAM hungry and the business's chances are aren't going to buy the recommended RAM for all of their computers so that could limit sales somewhat.

[ROJIRU]

My son in law works in the IT industry, so his computer is fairly high speck. He had to install Vista as part of his job. He showed me the clips of the butterfly landing on a flower and a waterfall, very impressive. Then he showed me a gadget showing how much memory was being used, it was 75% of total memory. Windows xp is rubbish, apart from the window dressing, vista seems worse. He gave me a copy of ubuntu which I am trying to become familiar with. It's well worth the struggle. I also got a copy of kubuntu and I like that as well.

[joe.turion64x2]

It wouldn't let you in, still, because the hash for no password is
$1$2TUdk8Z0$tb2Fn6Idgo8dq9EgYv4xZ0
But that is translated different when it is physically booted into the original system. They hash would change.



Yes, but you actually have to be in front of the machine, so there really is no point in the first place. Nobody can get you from the internet unless you let them in.
Agreed, that is what we all doubt THEDARKNESSHASCOME can achieve, don't we?

EDIT: I remember once when I forgot my root password (not the user password) and did that thing: booted from the liveCD, mounted the partition, and deleted the encrypted password in the column corresponding to root user. After that, when I logged in the installed system again I had a 'blank' root password (which I promptly changed). That occurred a year ago, or thereabouts.

[THEDARKNESSHASCOME]

Agreed, that is what we all doubt THEDARKNESSHASCOME can achieve, don't we?

EDIT: I remember once when I forgot my root password (not the user password) and did that thing: booted from the liveCD, mounted the partition, and deleted the encrypted password in the column corresponding to root user. After that, when I logged in the installed system again I had a 'blank' root password (which I promptly changed). That occurred a year ago, or thereabouts.

good for you but don't bash me.

cuz you don't know me.

and i don't have the time to post 24/7 im actually a very bizzy person so i don't get toi get very detailed

[joe.turion64x2]

good for you but don't bash me.

cuz you don't know me.

and i don't have the time to post 24/7 im actually a very bizzy person so i don't get toi get very detailed
Don't bashing anyone, really. I just wanted to point out that there are workarounds to perform 'root only' actions, so it is unwise to keep a high skepticism about it. In my experience, of course, in front of the machine I wanted to get root access to. Ohh, and it took me about 5 minutes too (the time to boot the liveCD and perform the commands).

[Frak]

Don't bashing anyone, really. I just wanted to point out that there are workarounds to perform 'root only' actions, so it is unwise to keep a high skepticism about it. In my experience, of course, in front of the machine I wanted to get root access to. Ohh, and it took me about 5 minutes too (the time to boot the liveCD and perform the commands).
Easier way, just reboot into recovery mode. It's CLI based, yes, but you have full access to everything, and you can change the hash etc. without the hash changing.

[Scotty Bones]

I don't think that so, M$ may not be able to get away with monopolistic ways in
Europe but, In the US and some other countries all they have to do is bribe
the right people and they can get away with all most any thing

Suzy

Your absolutely right here. When MS came under fire from the US congress, threating judiciary actions under anti-monopoly laws. All it had to was donate some money to democrats and republicans. Then all of a sudden the problem just went away.
Amazing isn't it.

[darksong]

Your absolutely right here. When MS came under fire from the US congress, threating judiciary actions under anti-monopoly laws. All it had to was donate some money to democrats and republicans. Then all of a sudden the problem just went away.
Amazing isn't it.

Democracy ftw

[Frak]

Democracy ftw


Still though, I should be the only one who sees that as bad...

[Scotty Bones]

The 'advantage' of Windows from a common user's point of view is the familiarity with previous versions, if they drop that 'advantage' then it's natural their users (mostly used to familiarity as mentioned above) complain.

However, if familiarity is dropped, users still have to learn how to use the new system, right? But why learn to use a crappy alpha system that will most likely refuse to work with existent hardware, when it can be learned to use a real/stable one (like Linux)?

From a user's stand point, without familiarity Vista and Linux and in a level battlefield, Linux still having the advantage.

Joe.

And this is exactly what MS has done with vista. Everything that had been built up from 95 to XP is largely gone. Options that were once nicely grouped together have been thrown haphazardly all over the place. (I do like my XPMCE 2005, but they have had a few years to work on it.)

MS has once again shown that they have no concept of the word "consistency" ie. network neighborhood, my network places, network (among others). for christ sake just pick one and stick with it! And was it really necessary to rename add/remove programs (so, so annoying).

Whats with this doing away with menu bar thing? Yes, I know it's still there but not by default, and you gotta futz around awhile to find it. What purpose does that serve other than to just **** people off (especially us power-users and techs). Weeee, we get to play with ribbons now, it's BS.

Now, I have to admit I do like the look of aero, but thats as far as that goes. It's nothing more than an over rated resource hog, I guess it's good bait to draw in the ignorant though.

Then when you add in things like OOXML integration with the vista stack (this is a whole other mess though), WGA, "enhanced" DRM, open ports for the CIA and stealth updates, (and who knows what else we haven't heard about yet) you just have to stop and say "DAMN, enough is enough already."

...but thats just my rant.
I really do have to thank MS though, if it were not for vista. I would have never discovered Ubuntu and the wide world of Linux. I'm sure I'm not the only converted one here due to vista (I think MS really has something to be worried about). I must say that I am really enjoying the decision I made to switch and haven't looked back since. The more I learn, the more I love it and the more I believe that Linux (of any flavor) will continue to grow stronger and increase in users as time goes by. It's here to stay!

[kulturloseramerikaner]

I really do have to thank MS though, if it were not for vista. I would have never discovered Ubuntu and the wide world of Linux. I'm sure I'm not the only converted one here due to vista (I think MS really has something to be worried about). I must say that I am really enjoying the decision I made to switch and haven't looked back since. The more I learn, the more I love it and the more I believe that Linux (of any flavor) will continue to grow stronger and increase in users as time goes by. It's here to stay!

Yup, you can put me in that category too.

[Anthrax9]

And this is exactly what MS has done with vista. Everything that had been built up from 95 to XP is largely gone. Options that were once nicely grouped together have been thrown haphazardly all over the place. (I do like my XPMCE 2005, but they have had a few years to work on it.)

MS has once again shown that they have no concept of the word "consistency" ie. network neighborhood, my network places, network (among others). for christ sake just pick one and stick with it! And was it really necessary to rename add/remove programs (so, so annoying).

Whats with this doing away with menu bar thing? Yes, I know it's still there but not by default, and you gotta futz around awhile to find it. What purpose does that serve other than to just **** people off (especially us power-users and techs). Weeee, we get to play with ribbons now, it's BS.

Now, I have to admit I do like the look of aero, but thats as far as that goes. It's nothing more than an over rated resource hog, I guess it's good bait to draw in the ignorant though.

Then when you add in things like OOXML integration with the vista stack (this is a whole other mess though), WGA, "enhanced" DRM, open ports for the CIA and stealth updates, (and who knows what else we haven't heard about yet) you just have to stop and say "DAMN, enough is enough already."

...but thats just my rant.
I really do have to thank MS though, if it were not for vista. I would have never discovered Ubuntu and the wide world of Linux. I'm sure I'm not the only converted one here due to vista (I think MS really has something to be worried about). I must say that I am really enjoying the decision I made to switch and haven't looked back since. The more I learn, the more I love it and the more I believe that Linux (of any flavor) will continue to grow stronger and increase in users as time goes by. It's here to stay!

Even i converted to ubuntu for that reason!!:)

[perixx]

^^ I had enough of that Mafia-company before and was experimenting with some small Linux-distros even before Vista stepped up.

I know people that indeed are too lazy to turn their backs from MS now but will definitely do so at the time XP's support ends...

and I strive to be there to help them when the time has come :biggrin:


perixx

[starboyhull]

Hi Guys

Just to add to the 100's of posts already......

Our company is an MS partner, we support lots of small / medium companies with products........I think MS have made a rod for their own back with Vista, I upgraded XP Pro for Vista Business, its unusable, unstable and is just awful to use. This is the reason i'm now on this forum :)

I dont think that opensource would ever take over from commercial software for businesses in general use, but I think some of the more techy home users will start making the move to OS' like this.

I will still be using XP / Vista in my support role but as for when I get home I think ubuntu will be the winner, ive only been playing with it on the dvd but even so its 10X faster than vista could ever be.........Just need to work out how to do everything now :lolflag:

Linux wins over Vista!

[daulex]

Hi Guys

Just to add to the 100's of posts already......

Our company is an MS partner, we support lots of small / medium companies with products........I think MS have made a rod for their own back with Vista, I upgraded XP Pro for Vista Business, its unusable, unstable and is just awful to use. This is the reason i'm now on this forum :)

I dont think that opensource would ever take over from commercial software for businesses in general use, but I think some of the more techy home users will start making the move to OS' like this.

I will still be using XP / Vista in my support role but as for when I get home I think ubuntu will be the winner, ive only been playing with it on the dvd but even so its 10X faster than vista could ever be.........Just need to work out how to do everything now :lolflag:

Linux wins over Vista!
Hi,

about open source taking over the world.
I am sorry, but I have to disagree, it is already close to and it won't be long till it is: with open source you get good programs, great support and awesome functionality for free, so why would anyone decide to say no to that in favour of paying for something on win? habit... yes a lot of us (including me) are slaves to win(I can't work without ps, fl, and dw cs3)... so for the moment I have no choice, but give it time, it is going to happen, it is inevitable, it is just a matter of time.

[Frak]

Hi,

about open source taking over the world.
I am sorry, but I have to disagree, it is already close to and it won't be long till it is: with open source you get good programs, great support and awesome functionality for free, so why would anyone decide to say no to that in favour of paying for something on win? habit... yes a lot of us (including me) are slaves to win(I can't work without ps, fl, and dw cs3)... so for the moment I have no choice, but give it time, it is going to happen, it is inevitable, it is just a matter of time.
Open Source = libre
Open Source ≠ free beer

I pay for Crossover and Cedega, but guess what, they are both Open Source Softwares. I get great support for them.

[ryanVickers]

yeah, open source isn't always free:

Free means "Doesn't cost anything"
Open source means "Anyone can look at the source code, even if it coest money"

they are completely independent, but most often, open source is free ;)

[jack123456]

Windows Vista contains hundreds of new and reworked features; some of the most significant include an updated graphical user interface and visual style dubbed Windows Aero, improved searching features, new multimedia creation tools such as Windows DVD Maker, and completely redesigned networking, audio, print, and display sub-systems.

[Soarer]

Windows Vista contains hundreds of new and reworked features; some of the most significant include an updated graphical user interface and visual style dubbed Windows Aero, improved searching features, new multimedia creation tools such as Windows DVD Maker, and completely redesigned networking, audio, print, and display sub-systems.

And you joined the forum to post that?

Or just to advertise your company :(

[ryanVickers]

Windows Vista contains hundreds of new and reworked features; some of the most significant include an updated graphical user interface and visual style dubbed Windows Aero, improved searching features, new multimedia creation tools such as Windows DVD Maker, and completely redesigned networking, audio, print, and display sub-systems.

oh boy, a new GUI, that should definitely take 7 years! :lolflag:

while Ubuntu, in 6 months, redesigned the graphics effects (that are way more advanced now, before, and always will be), made it faster, moved stuff around, fixed countless bugs, and only introduced a couple new ones, while vista is basically all one huge bug! :p

I like that apple commercial about the vista versions:
"Hi, I'm a mac"
"and I'm a PC and it's time to play "Choose a Vista!"
"hey, what's going on here!?"
"Well, Vista comes in 6 different version and I don't know what to choose - I could spend to little and get one that's useless, or spend too much and get a lot of stuff I don't need!"
"Well, Mac just has one version that has everything you need"
"Well that's boring; this is fun!"
:lolflag:

[boon4376]

I don't think anyone but Microsoft's marketing dweebs think Vista is revolutionary. To anyone with half a brain it's obviously an evolutionary rather than revolutionary development from XP.

Evolutionary even??? Vista is basically Windows XP
s Dumba** teenage offspring with fancy makeup, and confusing interface!

And its sole purpose was to have more eye candy than OS-X IMHO... It was throw together too fast, and has absolutely no advantages over XP with vista design theme.

You're likely to join the "I Hate Vista" club we started at my Colleges IT Help Center.

Windows Vista contains hundreds of new and reworked features; some of the most significant include an updated graphical user interface and visual style dubbed Windows Aero, improved searching features, new multimedia creation tools such as Windows DVD Maker, and completely redesigned networking, audio, print, and display sub-systems.

Re-Worked to work less well than Windows XP, the sole problem of 3/4 of the networking problems on campus is because windows Vista has compatibility problems.
Not to mention you have to go through way more windows to get to what you want.

[JarG0n]

Yup, you can put me in that category too.

Ditto. We need a voting thread for this very subject.

[Quillz]

I still can't believe some of the idiots in this thread. That you honest believe Vista is "just XP with a pretty GUI." You wouldn't like it if someone said your precious Ubuntu 7.10 was "just 6.06 with a pretty GUI." It's fine not to like Vista, but at least dislike it for actual, valid reasons. Vista has an entirely different kernel from XP, and that alone makes it anything but XP. It's funny how everyone complains about Vista's incompatibility with programs without realizing it's because Vista is so different from XP.

[Frak]

I still can't believe some of the idiots in this thread. That you honest believe Vista is "just XP with a pretty GUI." You wouldn't like it if someone said your precious Ubuntu 7.10 was "just 6.06 with a pretty GUI." It's fine not to like Vista, but at least dislike it for actual, valid reasons. Vista has an entirely different kernel from XP, and that alone makes it anything but XP. It's funny how everyone complains about Vista's incompatibility with programs without realizing it's because Vista is so different from XP.
Well said.

[inversekinetix]

Hi I'm a mac (insert stupid comment)
Hi I'm a pc (insert stupid comment here)
Hi I'm linux (insert stupid comment here)
Hi I'm a moron I bash one or more of the above because i dont know how to use them properly.

[maduranga]

Most users having troubles in setting up surround in vista. the damn os doesn't have the HAL so theres no surround sounds.

Even hard to believe that their biggest development, the fancy new OS came without supporting multi channel sounds.

http://www.techspot.com/vb/topic68283.html

[ryanVickers]

Hi I'm a mac (insert stupid comment)
Hi I'm a pc (insert stupid comment here)
Hi I'm linux (insert stupid comment here)
Hi I'm a moron I bash one or more of the above because i dont know how to use them properly.

oh, yes, all of those 100% true windows problems are because of user error; like how vista won't run on half of new machines, and how it slows down from too much stuff being installed, and there's 6 versions because people just didn't like one version with everything, and at a reasonable price like mac, and... :lolflag:

sorry, try again! :p

[RebounD11]

and there's 6 versions because people just didn't like one version with everything, and at a reasonable price like mac

#1: Linux has tons of versions (distros) Mac has Tiger and Leopard, why can't Windows have more... Choice is a good thing.

#2 If Mac has a reasonable price then I'm living in a freakin' dumpster at the corner of a dead end street... Linux has a reasonable price (0 - you name your currency) and a very good usability and performance for it.

Vista is not as bad as some would make it appear, and not as good as MS wants it to be, it's an improvement from XP and I might give it a chance to stay on my system for a longer time than a few weeks if it wasn't that resource hungry. Personally I look forward to see what Windows Vienna we'll bring.

Anyway Linux vs Vista: IMO the winner is Linux, Linux vs Windows the wiiner is also IMO Linux, but Vista is a warning that Windows is getting better even if it's meant to be used on the higher-end machines (it made mine look like it's ready to die and it's not such a bad computer :D)

[perixx]

The best and only reason for Vista is DirectX10 in my opinion. Of course MS wants to sell its fancy polished OS, not enhance the lean XP - which might make a hell of a better performance than Vista. Not to mention the horribly illogical and confusing 'improved' GUI :P

But the better part of Vista sure is the virtualization capabilities - that it could be, if it was used for the purpose of making computing for the user more safe and comfortable not more dubious.

Most of the new hardware- based 'security' features of Vista serve mainly for preventing the user from using the computed data in the way he wants it to - DRM, HDCP and the likes. Plus separating the consumers from the possibilty to control their OS' behaviour... who would willingly install a OS on his computer, that ties down it's potential, unless he isn't informed about the facts - or by obtrusion :rolleyes:


perixx


Ah, some goodie here, if you don't know it by now --

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVbf9tOGwno

[klange]

The best and only reason for Vista is DirectX10 in my opinion.
*cough* OpenGL 3 *cough*

[Frak]

*cough* OpenGL 3 *cough*
*cough* w00t *cough*

[inversekinetix]

oh, yes, all of those 100% true windows problems are because of user error; like how vista won't run on half of new machines, and how it slows down from too much stuff being installed, and there's 6 versions because people just didn't like one version with everything, and at a reasonable price like mac, and... :lolflag:

sorry, try again! :p

Thanks Ryan, please check my sig and tell me how much the same setup by mac would cost me without the OS. The OS slows down because it is not properly maintained by most users. I don't see why I should pay for features I have no use for, can you explain why I should?

Thanks again for your reply.

[Frak]

Thanks Ryan, please check my sig and tell me how much the same setup by mac would cost me without the OS. The OS slows down because it is not properly maintained by most users. I don't see why I should pay for features I have no use for, can you explain why I should?

Thanks again for your reply.
Actually, if you build your own, with the same parts, an Apple Mac costs more for the same parts. If you buy the computer, then the prices are still higher on Macs, but not by much.

[inversekinetix]

Actually, if you build your own, with the same parts, an Apple Mac costs more for the same parts. If you buy the computer, then the prices are still higher on Macs, but not by much.



I know, I like the flexibility of being able to choose the exact parts by vendors I choose and put together the system myself, then I put the OS of my choice on. I view computers the same way as I do my stereo, I buy components and put it together myself rather than buy a ready made set. Whichever OS i decide to use gets used for basically the same tasks, they all run at more or less the same speed on my system and there is very little to distinguish them. It all works perfectly for me, which is what its all about, user choice, not restrictive vendors.

[ryanVickers]

well, how much did that cost? It's not completely comparable because I don't know exactly what some of the mac parts are, and they cannot really be customized, but I would say that would cost about ~$2000 as a normal computer...

Anyways, I was talking about the OS, not the computer, but my point is, and I have to make this to so many people, that you shouldn't have to maintain anything! With windows, upgrading to newer version usually needs a new computer - how often has this been true for mac? "We're demoing it (iLife '08 ) here on the new mac with tiger, but it will work with the mac you already have too" -iLife '08 guided tour guy :p

how often have you needed to defrag with linux/mac? Upgrade your PC to make a new version work? or otherwise do something that could, and should be automatic?!

there's also that ad about mac being "the finest desktop PC on the market at any price" -Wall Street Journal :p

[Frak]

well, how much did that cost? It's not completely comparable because I don't know exactly what some of the mac parts are, and they cannot really be customized, but I would say that would cost about ~$2000 as a normal computer...

Anyways, I was talking about the OS, not the computer, but my point is, and I have to make this to so many people, that you shouldn't have to maintain anything! With windows, upgrading to newer version usually needs a new computer - how often has this been true for mac? "We're demoing it (iLife '08 ) here on the new mac with tiger, but it will work with the mac you already have too" -iLife '08 guided tour guy :p

how often have you needed to defrag with linux/mac? Upgrade your PC to make a new version work? or otherwise do something that could, and should be automatic?!
I had to upgrade from 10.4.7 to 10.4.10 to use iWork '08 if that counts as an upgrade ;)

[ryanVickers]

but you didn't change your hardware, did you? That's what I'm discussing here :) - you shouldn't have to change your hardware to make a new version of ( software ) anything work!

[Frak]

but you didn't change your hardware, did you? That's what I'm discussing here :) - you shouldn't have to change your hardware to make a new version of ( software ) anything work!
Nope, 4 year old Mac, still running at light speed.

[inversekinetix]

well, how much did that cost? It's not completely comparable because I don't know exactly what some of the mac parts are, and they cannot really be customized, but I would say that would cost about ~$2000 as a normal computer...

Anyways, I was talking about the OS, not the computer, but my point is, and I have to make this to so many people, that you shouldn't have to maintain anything! With windows, upgrading to newer version usually needs a new computer - how often has this been true for mac? "We're demoing it (iLife '08 ) here on the new mac with tiger, but it will work with the mac you already have too" -iLife '08 guided tour guy :p

how often have you needed to defrag with linux/mac? Upgrade your PC to make a new version work? or otherwise do something that could, and should be automatic?!

there's also that ad about mac being "the finest desktop PC on the market at any price" -Wall Street Journal :p

Hi ryan. I use both xp and ubuntu, this is my windows regimen:

i spend little time to keep my system optimized. my registry is scanned at boot and automatically fixed (takes about 3 seconds), my AV updates itself everytime I boot (another 4 seconds for the download and update, automatic of course), my temp folder is automatically emptied on boot. wga was completely removed after I installed just like all unnecessary services were disabled. I dont have a browser cache, i have gigabit fibre, my pages load fast anyway. I don't even have a page file, I use ram only (unless a program requires a pagefile to run) Defrag takes about 1 min on a drive with 1% fragmentation.


I also have a 5 year old pc with w2k pro installed on it, again it is fully optimized for performance and stability. Neither of my windows machines has crashed in the last 5 years nor have they had a security problem. They both boot as fast as gutsy gibbon and run equally efficiently. They all serve their purpose and I'm happy with the hardware I chose, the system I configuired and the stability they all offer me.

There is nothing a mac can do that I can't do on my windows machines, like other people i like eye candy so I play around with compiz on ubuntu. I have fun overclocking my system for games in windows. Just like windows is a closed system and forces you to do things their way I feel that apple does the same with their systems removing choice from the customer and charging a premium for it.

Of course everyone is entitled to do whatever they want, I chose to choose my own things at a competetive price thats all.

I don't know about the ad you mentioned, nor in what terms 'finest' is being used. As for price, stability and functionality I would say all the systems I have put together are the finest, even the case I have are indistinguishable from mac in terms of quality of materials and workmanship.

I'm happy with what I have.

You say you need new hardware to upgrade windows, I usually buy a new computer when windows releases a new version (excluding ME, that was horrible) I bought a new one when XP came out and installed 2Kpro on it. I bought a new one this february and put XP on it. I have a copy of vista sitting on the shelf, I wont install it because I have ubuntu now. I don't think you have always had to upgrade to just install the OS. Peoples expectations change, if you were to run a torrent client at full speed whilst playing a DVD and having several other applications running on a 5 year old computer of any brand I think you would be disappointed. While we all know windows is bloated and inefficient out of the box but it does help drive sales of hardware which is important to I.T as a whole.

Anyways, each to their own ryan. If you configure your system properly you wont see any difference between OSs. I'm happy with what I have, I hope you are too.

And btw, I managed to put my system together for about $1500 including a scythe psu and an antec p180 case (I recommend this soooooo much). My company firewall stops me from online shopping so I can check apple store, but last time I looked I remember customizing a basic model and it ended up being very very expensive.

[Soarer]

Hi inversekinetix, nice, balanced post :)

Can I ask, if you disable or remove WGA on the XP box, do you still get upgrades from Microsoft? If so, why doesn't everyone do it?

[inversekinetix]

Hi inversekinetix, nice, balanced post :)

Can I ask, if you disable or remove WGA on the XP box, do you still get upgrades from Microsoft? If so, why doesn't everyone do it?

Thanks soarer, no you cant get upgrades if it is disabled or removed. I got the upgrades I needed when I installed and then removed WGA. If there is a critical update that I need I simply reinstall WGA get the update then remove it again. I don't see any need for MS to check my computer everytime it boots. I don't like the idea of that one bit.

I don't think most users actually realize what WGA does, I don't know what data is being sent to MS, i don't want any to be sent.

:)

[oldcdr]

I am running Windows Vista Ultimate on an AMD64x2 with 4 GB of memory.
I have found it to be rather unwieldy. It seems to be slower in comparison with Windows XP, and of course, some of my applications and external hardware do not have Vista drivers.
I have been dabbling with Linux for a couple years, and on this computer (not the Vista box)(Amd64) I have been able to find applications to do just about everything I was doing in Vista. I am just about ready to stop using Vista and concentrate on Ubuntu.

[inversekinetix]

well, how much did that cost? It's not completely comparable because I don't know exactly what some of the mac parts are, and they cannot really be customized, but I would say that would cost about ~$2000 as a normal computer...



you're right that they're not completely comparable, but this is a rough idea

* Two 2.0GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon
* 2GB (4 x 512MB)
* 500GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
* 500GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
* 500GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
* 500GB 7200-rpm Serial ATA 3Gb/s
* ATI Radeon X1900 XT 512MB (2 x dual-link DVI)
* One 16x SuperDrive
* Apple USB Modem
* Apple Keyboard and Mighty Mouse - U.S. English
* Mac OS X - U.S. English

$3,913.00\

if you add a raid card its another $1000

This price is with the cheapest cpu they have, I think this is a little pricey for the hardware involved, what do you think?

[perixx]

Hm, I don't know if that's all true, Inversekinetix...

hanks soarer, no you cant get upgrades if it is disabled or removed. I got the upgrades I needed when I installed and then removed WGA. If there is a critical update that I need I simply reinstall WGA get the update then remove it again. I don't see any need for MS to check my computer everytime it boots. I don't like the idea of that one bit.


AFAIK, Windows DOES even install some 'minor' secret updates, even if Autoupdate is disabled (for the purpose of keeping the updater up to date, as they claim). I don't think that this feature is linked to the WGA tool that's checking your System's genious genuity....


perixx

[ryanVickers]

I knew it!!!

thanks for that - I need it for another post... :p

[inversekinetix]

Hm, I don't know if that's all true, Inversekinetix...



AFAIK, Windows DOES even install some 'minor' secret updates, even if Autoupdate is disabled (for the purpose of keeping the updater up to date, as they claim). I don't think that this feature is linked to the WGA tool that's checking your System's genious genuity....


perixx

details/sources please

[weblordpepe]

details/sources pleaseHave you been living under a rock? :P Microsoft's stealth updates have been all over the news.

[inversekinetix]

X

[perixx]

Microsoft's stealth updates have been all over the news

correctamente.

I've got this out of an article of the 'PCWorld' magazine... it includes a statement of MS' program director for the update-manager software, Nate Clinton, playing down the matter; so I'd suppose there's more to the story :]

But they didn't describe how to REALLY prevent secret updates there. I'd suppose disabling the update-service in the services manager and using a properly set up desktop-firewall like Comodo should do the trick - along with using manually selected and 'WGA-cleaned' update packs (but how can you ever be really really sure with MS ?) ^^
That is, of course, as long as MS doesn't dry out all alternative update sources for good in the end.


Allright -- the ultimate hint on how to DEFINITELY PREVENT STEALTH UPDATES by Microsoft:
PULL THE NETWORK PLUG AND RIP OFF YOUR WLAN-ANTENNA

XD


perixx

[Sunnz]

Allright -- the ultimate hint on how to DEFINITELY PREVENT STEALTH UPDATES by Microsoft:
PULL THE NETWORK PLUG AND RIP OFF YOUR WLAN-ANTENNA

XD


perixx

Just upgrade to Ubuntu, and enjoy the internet! :popcorn:

[perixx]

I'd agree, sunnz, but not for those hardcore-gamers out there...

perixx

[weblordpepe]

(but how can you ever be really really sure with MS ?)
You can't ever be sure. That's the problem. You have to trust Microsoft.