Linux vs. Vista

[Liviu-Theodor]

Then I would expect you to be running a box with about 600MHz processor, 256MB RAM, 64MB video card, and about a 10GB hard drive.

Vista run poorly on systems with 64 bit dual-core processors, 1 GB of RAM, 256 MB video RAM, 160 GB SATA HDD. If it wants more than that to run properly, it is not called high requirements?

OK, I know someone who have no problems with Vista (in his opinion), but he has quad-core processor, 4 GB of RAM, 500 GB SATA2 HDD, some crazy (in the good way) video card with 512 MB or 1 GB of video memory. Oh, maybe this is low requirement?

[Liviu-Theodor]

Form the DRM perspective, Vista scares the **** out of me. I don't illegally copy music or software, and I don't perform illegal activity on the web.

To me, this is the same as adding breath analyzer in everyone's car or having to present identity just to enter the local mall.

I have a laptop that came preinstalled with Vista. However, Vista never saw the light of day. The first boot I did with the laptop was from a Ubuntu CD, and promptly wiped out all existing partitions on the hard disk.

My only frustration is that Microsoft got paid for a copy of Vista that was never used.

My employer bought the laptop, so I didn't have much say in it. I'm just glad that I was allowed to install my favourite operating system :D

There is a hypermarket (mall) in my country that does exactly that: you must present an "identity card" emited by them, to be able to buy from them. I avoid even products made by/for them, even if they are sold elesewhere.

[fiddledd]

OK, I know someone who have no problems with Vista (in his opinion)...

Seeing as it's his opinion, about his OS, on his Computer, his opinion is the only one that matters.

[dracvs]

Vista run poorly on systems with 64 bit dual-core processors, 1 GB of RAM, 256 MB video RAM, 160 GB SATA HDD. If it wants more than that to run properly, it is not called high requirements?

OK, I know someone who have no problems with Vista (in his opinion), but he has quad-core processor, 4 GB of RAM, 500 GB SATA2 HDD, some crazy (in the good way) video card with 512 MB or 1 GB of video memory. Oh, maybe this is low requirement?

its not called high Requirements

its called progress.

What use do you have for dual core if the Operative system won't take advantage of it and all the ram you throw at it for mundane task?

I mean I won't be buying a 2000 dollar computer that will use only 2000 dollar power when I open a game for 1 hour. I want to actually enjoy my 2000 dollars every single time i Click my mouse! (well 2000 is a figure, it could be whatever amount you like)

One thing I noticed with vista, is that the more ram you throw at it, the more it caches, and suddenly everything is in the ram. Like we dream it will be in 2001 when XP came out.

XP is useless. I remember when 5.04 came out I switched instantly (that was by the time I knew Ubuntu existed) and I ditched XP completely.

[ukripper]

double post

[ukripper]

One thing I noticed with vista, is that the more ram you throw at it, the more it caches, and suddenly everything is in the ram. Like we dream it will be in 2001 when XP came out.

.

you can run puppy linux or DSL from RAM itself, less than 64MB RAM required for them no HDD required!

[Liviu-Theodor]

I have tried Vista and I can say I like Ubuntu a lot better. Mainly because it's free.

You must update: free for ever-growing prices to be paid ever end ever to a very known company, free from constantly check for viruses and other malware, free from worries, free of constantly seraching on the net and downloading some programs, free of using your computer (not viceversa), and so on ;).

[Liviu-Theodor]

IMHO it is because most people have to unlearn Windows. It would be interesting to give a group of people that never used a Computer before PCs with Linux and Windows pre installed, and see which group became more proficient in a set time period. I don't know which would come out on top, but it would an interesting experiment. It would also settle once and for all which is the more user friendly.

I fact, I found on the net that such experiences already have been done. The ones using at first Linux (and no specifically Ubuntu, even other distributions) will never want to use Windows. It is much cumbersome, much counter-intuitive, less user-friendly (their opinion, at least). Even more, if they will have to use the other OS, the transition from Linux to Windows is much harder and more time consumming than from Windows to Linux. It seems the learning curve for Windows is much steeper in fact than for Linux, even widely believed otherwise.

[karellen]

You must update: free for ever-growing prices to be paid ever end ever to a very known company, free from constantly check for viruses and other malware, free from worries, free of constantly seraching on the net and downloading some programs, free of using your computer (not viceversa), and so on ;).

you surely know that in Romania more than 90% of home computers run pirated software. so in way, the "freedom" argument doesn't apply here ;)

[crtlbreak]

How can one compare one whole operating system to another single release of an operating system?
Surely it should be Ubuntu vs Vista, SuSE vs XP or Linux vs Microsoft?
That in itself will automatically cause confusion?
It is almost like saying Big Mac quarter pounder vs Burger King.

[karellen]

How can one compare one whole operating system to another single release of an operating system?
Surely it should be Ubuntu vs Vista, SuSE vs XP or Linux vs Microsoft?
That in itself will automatically cause confusion?
It is almost like saying Big Mac quarter pounder vs Burger King.

and more precisely, Ubuntu x.yz vs Vista and so... ;)

[Liviu-Theodor]

you surely know that in Romania more than 90% of home computers run pirated software. so in way, the "freedom" argument doesn't apply here ;)

I know even the fact that most people do not even know that Windows must be paid for. It is widely believed that Windows can be obtained free of charge. But my point of view was as a network administrator, mainly for bussiness use, not for personal use. And with business, it is much less than the 90% you said about (still more than 50%, I think). Of course, some people had a very bad surprise even in Romania, only because BSA Romania send them some letters to "enter legality". In Suceava, there is a reason most of Internet Caffe-s are closed, after a month of BSA controls, so the "freedom" argument should apply, even in our country. And do you remember about the student in Cluj, who was making thousands of pirated copies at his home, and was arrested for this? So even at home, you are not "worries free" when using pirated software...

[Liviu-Theodor]

its not called high Requirements

its called progress.

What use do you have for dual core if the Operative system won't take advantage of it and all the ram you throw at it for mundane task?

I mean I won't be buying a 2000 dollar computer that will use only 2000 dollar power when I open a game for 1 hour. I want to actually enjoy my 2000 dollars every single time i Click my mouse! (well 2000 is a figure, it could be whatever amount you like)

One thing I noticed with vista, is that the more ram you throw at it, the more it caches, and suddenly everything is in the ram. Like we dream it will be in 2001 when XP came out.

XP is useless. I remember when 5.04 came out I switched instantly (that was by the time I knew Ubuntu existed) and I ditched XP completely.

The systems on which Vista behaves poorly costed about 1000 euros (about 1500 dollars), including the LCD display, so the price is not very far away from your number (now the price will be surely be lower).

And about progress, Intel and AMD still produce single core processores. They haven't heard of progress? I doubt it. Even more, now progress seems to be using duplicate pieces of hardware for tasks at hand (mainboards for more than one processor, dual, quad and multi-core processors, dual channel memory, SLI and crossfire for two or more video cards, RAID, and so on). They can not produce a better technology, which give as real progress?

In my opinion, on newer hardware, a newer operating system behaves better than an older software on an older hardware. But with Vista, it is surely a regress, not a progress.

[karellen]

I know even the fact that most people do not even know that Windows must be paid for. It is widely believed that Windows can be obtained free of charge. But my point of view was as a network administrator, mainly for bussiness use, not for personal use. And with business, it is much less than the 90% you said about (still more than 50%, I think). Of course, some people had a very bad surprise even in Romania, only because BSA Romania send them some letters to "enter legality". In Suceava, there is a reason most of Internet Caffe-s are closed, after a month of BSA controls, so the "freedom" argument should apply, even in our country. And do you remember about the student in Cluj, who was making thousands of pirated copies at his home, and was arrested for this? So even at home, you are not "worries free" when using pirated software...

I'm very aware of this. it's just a matter of time until they'd be tighten the grip even in this country

[Ugluk]

It's a shame that people use pirated Vista on their workplace. Sad grabbers... In home people can install whatever they want, it's fair use anyway. Btw. I doubt that even in România someone cares about home computers...

[karellen]

It's a shame that people use pirated Vista on their workplace. Sad grabbers... In home people can install whatever they want, it's fair use anyway. Btw. I doubt that even in România someone cares about home computers...

well, they'll start to care if money can be obtained from this ;)

[SNYP40A1]

I saw the first post, thanks for the good laugh.

[Liviu-Theodor]

Seeing as it's his opinion, about his OS, on his Computer, his opinion is the only one that matters.

Never said I do not respect other's opinions. Even my sister's opinion and choice to use Windows XP, even after both her desktop and laptop ceased to function, and were revived with an Ubuntu 7.10 liveCD. And was our nephew who reinstalled for her (we have another sister), and he does not know anything about linux, besides the fact it exists and I have it. I mean, he just did that with ubuntu: back-up data, repartition HDDs, formatting NTFS partitions for Windows. After that, he installed Windows the normal way for him (making phone calls to me).

[Liviu-Theodor]

It's a shame that people use pirated Vista on their workplace. Sad grabbers... In home people can install whatever they want, it's fair use anyway. Btw. I doubt that even in România someone cares about home computers...

Unfortunately, it is not only Vista, but also older versions of Windows, Microsoft Office, and many other programs developped for Windows. That fact rises a lot of problems of course. And even to "enter legality" it is not so easy, with the prices charged for software. I mean, at my former work (who went bankruptcy, unfortunatelly), they managed to rise the legally obtained software from 0% to 13,5% in four years (of costs of licenses of software). To avoid misundarstandings, I say the reasons for bankruptcy were not at all related to software costs, but with bad management, long before I worked there, and who went after many years of survival to that unfortunate fact.

[karellen]

It's a shame that people use pirated Vista on their workplace. Sad grabbers... In home people can install whatever they want, it's fair use anyway. Btw. I doubt that even in România someone cares about home computers...

to put it simple. the average salary in Romania is somewhere around 300 euro. Windows Vista Home Premium costs here 200 euro, the Ultimate 300 euro and a MS Office Professional 400 euro. pretty obvious now why people choose to pirate software. if the software price would be a tenth of today's value maybe piracy would drop significantly

[Liviu-Theodor]

to put it simple. the average salary in Romania is somewhere around 300 euro. Windows Vista Home Premium costs here 200 euro, the Ultimate 300 euro and a MS Office Professional 400 euro. pretty obvious now why people choose to pirate software. if the software price would be a tenth of today's value maybe piracy would drop significantly

You are true, but still that does not explain why piracy rate is so high on businesses. And believe me, I know that is high even on countries with better standard lifes than ours (I knew an englishman who defended piracy in his country).

[karellen]

You are true, but still that does not explain why piracy rate is so high on businesses. And believe, me, I know that is high even on countries with better standard lifes than ours (I knew an englishman who defended piracy in his country).

I know, I guess that's because it's an easy thing to do

[ukripper]

I knew an englishman who defended piracy in his country.

Apparently, government hasn't got the same stance in England!

Piracy of as in P2P sharing for movies, music and games are common here for home users but businesses are highly likely to use licensed OS and software to avoid Regulatory bodies and Authorities coming afetr them. More than 90% businesses in UK are using licensed software and OS even following GNU/GPL code of conduct.

[Liviu-Theodor]

Apparently, government hasn't got the same stance in England!

Piracy of as in P2P sharing for movies, music and games are common here for home users but businesses are highly likely to use licensed OS and software to avoid Regulatory bodies and Authorities coming afetr them. More than 90% businesses in UK are using licensed software and OS even following GNU/GPL code of conduct.

Indeed, he is not a member of government, and this is exactly the kind of piracy he was defending: for home-users, but still, he included also software, not only multimedia files.

[ukripper]

Indeed, he is not a member of government, and this is exactly the kind of piracy he was defending: for home-users, but still, he included also software, not only multimedia files.

That is where things get serious if found at your home. You can face serious charges!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7568642.stm

[zoomy942]

its not called high Requirements

its called progress.

What use do you have for dual core if the Operative system won't take advantage of it and all the ram you throw at it for mundane task?

I mean I won't be buying a 2000 dollar computer that will use only 2000 dollar power when I open a game for 1 hour. I want to actually enjoy my 2000 dollars every single time i Click my mouse! (well 2000 is a figure, it could be whatever amount you like)

One thing I noticed with vista, is that the more ram you throw at it, the more it caches, and suddenly everything is in the ram. Like we dream it will be in 2001 when XP came out.

XP is useless. I remember when 5.04 came out I switched instantly (that was by the time I knew Ubuntu existed) and I ditched XP completely.

but what about guys like me?

i have an hp 2710p tablet with a 1.2 ulv dual core intel. Vista drags on this machine and its modern, brand new even. i agree that Vista is forcing system requirments. I run the IT at my company am started to roll out vista. I got 5 boxes updated and had to roll back to xp becasue of a mixture of programs not working and system requirements. It's hard to get management to buy off on buying 50 1GB ram sticks just for an OS to work when they are completely happy with XP.

for my tablet, ubuntu has been great. the stylus doesnt work yet, but thats becasue to make it work it's out of my skill set for now.

off topic example - i installed ubuntu in about 25 minutes (including updates) and when i put xp in my virtual box, it took 6 hours with updates and what not. wow....just wow.

[Liviu-Theodor]

That is where things get serious if found at your home. You can face serious charges!
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7568642.stm

I've got your point, but I never said he does not obbey with the law, just he does not agree with the law. After all, I am pretty sure that in England you have one way or another to change the law (laws change over time, isnt'it?). I have heard of a law in France (not computer related, though), according to which more than 80% of the people should have been arrested. Instead of doing that, they have just changed the law. And if you read http://www.autotelic.com/d070efebd12b5bc50b6d44fdb127b6ca~windows_is_free, you will understand that even in the USA there are cases of illegally copied software (I hate that expression "software piracy", as if copying a CD will be equivalent to killing and/or raping someone).

[ukripper]

I hate that expression "software piracy", as if copying a CD will be equivalent to killing and/or raping someone.

Being an application developer myself I can see the point of those software/games developers. If they don't want the license under GPL then it is their choice and end user should follow their terms of licensing which comes with the specific piece of software. Copying a CD leads to duplicate copies of the same software if handed to second person which is effectively a violation of EULA.

Things work different with GPL.

[Liviu-Theodor]

Being an application developer myself I can see the point of those software/games developers. If they don't want the license under GPL then it is their choice and end user should follow their terms of licensing which comes with the specific piece of software. Copying a CD leads to duplicate copies of the same software if handed to second person which is effectively a violation of EULA.

Things work different with GPL.

I said I do not agree with the expression "software piracy" and I never said I do not agree with the copyright. These are different issues. The software developers could call it something else (software illegally used/copied/distributed, or not in accordance with or in violation of the EULA).

[ukripper]

I said I do not agree with the expression "software piracy" and I never said I do not agree with the copyright. These are different issues. The software developers could call it something else (software illegally used/copied/distributed, or not in accordance with or in violation of the EULA).

You may have a point, but I guess it is easy to generalise civil offence to something really horrible (software piracy) to the general public so they stop doing it.

[Liviu-Theodor]

You may have a point, but I guess it is easy to generalise civil offence to something really horrible (software piracy) to the general public so they stop doing it.

It could have been called also "stolen software", and stealing is also bad, but not as bad as described before (piracy, murders, rape).

[ukripper]

I could have been called also "stolen software", and stealing is also bad, bad not as bad as described before (piracy, murders, rape).

I guess it has to do alot more with terminology taken from the law sector. Software developers use this in accordance with the law.

[Lod]

I pop down yakuake with f12 and then type eject rather then needing bend down and reaching for that little button below my dvd drive. :D

I hate bending. :mad:But you still have to bend down to get the DVD/CD out :-|. By doing it with F12 and typing eject you have to press 6 buttons plus bend down to get your DVD. By bending down, you only have to press 1 button. In my opinion you're a bit counterproductive.

On topic: as an Operating System I find Linux to be better, quicker and more secure (hopefully MS won't take my MCSE certification from me now :oops:). And I like the command line. But most of the times the software made for Windows is better imo.

[ukripper]

Not all men like bending;)

[Lod]

A man's got to do what a man's got to do. And if he wants his dvd, he has to bend.

[ukripper]

A man's got to do what a man's got to do. And if he wants his dvd, he has to bend.

Or put his box next to the monitor!


Thought this sections will be appropriate to post this -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7594249.stm

and this

"The vast majority of machines in these botnets will be PCs running a version of Microsoft Windows."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/7596676.stm

[BobSongs]

A man's got to do what a man's got to do. And if he wants his dvd, he has to bend.Understood. And if you're a bit on the hefty side then bending is not an easy task. Add to that the fact the button is not always easy to locate that button. Add to that the room may not be too well lit... I mean... the complications!

On Topic: Linux vs. Vista.
There might be those who leave the Linux camp for Vista. Some will say they're fed up of dealing with Linux's difficulties. Often it's due to compatibility issues (certain software doesn't run well under Wine, etc.). But most get on board the Vista boat because they don't know any other options. PCs come with Windows like Macs come with Mac OS X. They feel Windows is as much part of a PC as the video card is.

"Mohave" made it clear Microsoft is convinced many XP PC users do not wish to try Vista. And rightly so. XP's requirements are smaller than VIsta's. Thus upgrading to VIsta means a full machine upgrade too, something that was generally only true when it came to Macs.

Whether Vista or Linux wins out depends on so many factors. Hardcore Linux users aren't going to bend because Microsoft claims it poured a couple of drops of "wow" into it's products. My personal experience with Vista has left me saying "Wow!" as in: "Wow! Why did they ever release this to an unwitting pubic?" (Your experiences may vary.)

Personally I'm going to survive quite well without Vista. A new GUI doesn't bring enough to the table to convince me. And my copy of XP is now greatly diminished its use to doing a few odd tasks.

[gjoellee]

VISTA:
4Gb RAM
500GB HDD
Nvidia 8800


UBUNTU:
512MB RAM
120GB HDD
Nvidia 5200

Both computers have one thing in common....they both have the same performance:)

Also: http://www.kshoster.net/index.php?c=tipsandtricks&h=22thingsyouonlycandoinlinux

[BobSongs]

VISTA:
4Gb RAM
500GB HDD
Nvidia 8800


UBUNTU:
512MB RAM
120GB HDD
Nvidia 5200

Both computers have one thing in common....they both have the same performance:)

Also: http://www.kshoster.net/index.php?c=tipsandtricks&h=22thingsyouonlycandoinlinux

Ouch! Wow. Point made, point made.

Thanks. :)

[crtlbreak]

VISTA:
4Gb RAM
500GB HDD
Nvidia 8800


UBUNTU:
512MB RAM
120GB HDD
Nvidia 5200

Both computers have one thing in common....they both have the same performance:)

Also: http://www.kshoster.net/index.php?c=tipsandtricks&h=22thingsyouonlycandoinlinux

I understand your performance similarity between two completely different machines - we all know the OS has as lot to do with it - please also list the processors involved and the bus speeds?
regards

[lukjad007]

Microsoft Windows Vista and Microsoft Office 2007 are on the horizon, including new fancy graphic user interfaces... is Ubuntu Linux likely to survive against such strong competition?

John
Well, what I like about Linux compaired to Vista besides the whole spyware/virus thing, is how it is flexible. I can run a current version of Linux off of 200 megs of RAM quite easily. With XP that is not so easy (if even). With Vista that is not possible at all.

There is one thing I do like about Vista. It is too heavy for the computers so they will be forced to teach us Linux! :D

[debiant]

Good grief ProjectGod!!! How do you cope with that jumping up at you every time you log on?!!!
That is certainly some GUI and I don't think they're very likely to top that :)
And I would bet it runs a lot faster dipped in Ubuntu...

[sailorcire]

I just ditched my Vista Ultimate 64-bit to run only on Linux before I had a 32 and a 64 bit but Vista was such a pain with drivers and everything. I do have XP Pro Emulated on my Suse 11 as well as KUbuntu. I think though the new Mac fad will fade and Windows will be on top followed by Mac then Linux...but say Linux dropping or dieing then no...too many hard core users who would rather die then give up open source Linux to go to close source Windows

[Hyside]

Linux is much more flexible and customizable than Vista, and it is also MUCH more secure.
But! I need Vista in my everyday use for school, because for some reason the programming tools that I have for Windows will not work on WINE, nor will they work on Crossover with my Mac. Once I finish up my programming classes, I promise you I'll kill Vista right off my laptop and run Ubuntu with a %100 partition.

[minerbog]

Linux vs Vista!! Now let me look at this for a moment...

Ubuntu - Looks good, runs good, secure, can be as complex or simple as the user requires, odels of free good software and its not written by M$!

Vista - None of the above!

I dabbeled in the early unix systems (before GUI's) and found them then to be fast, reliable and secure. I agree its not for the complete novice, but now we have stuff like uBuntu and other distro's, I think linux is as userfriendly as windows. I use windows and userfriendly very very loosly!! The problem is that users have had M$ and other crap linked to M$ rammed down their throats for so long they have forgotten there is alternatives out there. I think some windows users would be amazed at what uBuntu can do, and how it functions like windows.

I think we can be sure that M$' hold on the market isn't as strong as they lead people to believe and vista is NEVER going to compete with the likes of uBuntu and Linux.

[crazyfuturamanoob]

What topic is this? Surely everybody here knows that linux ROCKS!

[Amarsingh0793]

Vista looks good in terms of design. The theme is AWESOME!!! I agree that Linux is better in almost everyway. One thing though - it is not really aimed for people new to Linux yet. A Newbie won't be impressed when they have to edit a system file using gedit, or use the command line. More things need to be automated before ANYONE can use it with confidence.

[lukjad007]

The thing is that there usually is a GUI way to do it. It's just that it's easier to tell someone to copy/paste a command than to go to here, click there, right click there... You get the picture.

[thegreatdestroyer]

First let me say that I'm still very new to Ubuntu and Linux in general. I've been using Ubuntu for over six months now and I really like it. I may have a lot to learn, but I'd rather learn than face Vista and all of its security leaks, loopholes, and general Windows cruft.

Go to network DALnet , channel #ubuntu on IRC sometime and speak with XiXaQ. He's a friend of mine. He like myself and many others believe that the Bill Gates era as I call is fast coming to an end.

[semitone36]

I just read the very first post on this thread and i would just like to say that it is absolutely HILARIOUS that there was once a time where people actually worried that Vista would be a good enough OS to harm Ubuntu's chances of growing
:lolflag:

[lukjad007]

Hindsight is 20/20. ;)

[Perpetual]

I like Vista. It works. It's stable. I can do everything I need on my laptop. Just purchased MySQL Workbench SE which runs wonderfully on Vista. Ubuntu and Fedora Alphas will not boot on my laptop. Mandriva will. For now all I have is Vista installed as it's doing what I need it to do to make money and pay bills.

I also like Linux. I won't compare the 2 as they both have their short comings.

[reysol48]

one word GAMES!!!!!! and don't even say WINE

[Cresho]

your funny. The new games out for windows locks your pc into accessing the main server to verify if you actually own it. I don't care for games on windows anymore. not only that, some games especially from ea, only allow 3 installs and your out boy! so you can rethink your thoughts on this. I honestly believe we need to send them a strong message.

I do play etqw, doom3, ressurection neverwinternights, tons of native games on linux.

not including wine.

[axionet]

I was wondering how can Windows pays the bills when all it does is crash. I use Ubuntu 8.04 LTS on my laptop and it works better than Windows ever dreamed of doing.

Besides the computer is only as smart as the one using it.

~ Open command prompt
~ Type 'del win.ini' without the quotes
~ Reboot and watch the eye candy Vista gives you

[Patto77]

I use both and each have their good and bad points.

Linux is much more fun to use than Vista. Infinitely more frustrating too ;)

[karellen]

I was wondering how can Windows pays the bills when all it does is crash. I use Ubuntu 8.04 LTS on my laptop and it works better than Windows ever dreamed of doing.

Besides the computer is only as smart as the one using it.

~ Open command prompt
~ Type 'del win.ini' without the quotes
~ Reboot and watch the eye candy Vista gives you

you have been reported

[Perpetual]

I was wondering how can Windows pays the bills when all it does is crash. I use Ubuntu 8.04 LTS on my laptop and it works better than Windows ever dreamed of doing.

Besides the computer is only as smart as the one using it.

~ Open command prompt
~ Type '*** ***.***' without the quotes
~ Reboot and watch the eye candy Vista gives you

Not going to argue with you, nor will I entertain the 'cute' command you offered but I have not had Vista crash once. So if yours crashes, I will leave your last comment to you to ponder...

'Besides the computer is only as smart as the one using it.'

[Perpetual]

Linux is much more fun to use than Vista. Infinitely more frustrating too ;)

You nailed exactly how I feel :) I love Linux but sometimes it frustrates me to no end.

[JC Cheloven]

Hi all.

For me, is not only a matter of practical convenience, in terms of which OS has a particular feature or another. I think about it in terms of MY OWN FREEDOM to choose, to develop, to share with the community... And also in terms of MY OWN RIGHTS to know how my docs are stored, to avoid supporting a monopolistic company (with plays unfair and prevents innovation), to fight for some democratization of the technology (as I would have fight for the democratization of written books several centuries ago) ... etc etc.

With the recent spread of free software, there is a risk of forgetting what is it about, and why and how it started. Of course, we should care about performance, but we also should care a bit about the ideas behind. Perhaps some reading now and then about something conceptual would be good. For example, I would recommend this recent writing from Mr. Stallman

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/compromise.html

So I don't like vista, no matter how pretty it looks.
Best regards.

[tenshi-no-shi]

This is silly, there is always all these stupid vs. threads. I mean really. If you like Vista, okay use vista, if you like linux use linux. Quit trying to compare them, quit trying to make one sound better than the other. Every OS has faults and bugs. Not every one runs into those bugs. Not everyone's computer can run that particular OS. SO WHAT! Quit doing being annoying and attacking the other OS because you don't like it, or you have had bad experiences with it.

Linux for me please, and all the free software to go with it too. But hey, if you like having to privacy and no freedoms, that is okay, just don't complain about security, because when the people in charge of it only care about their own, they certainly won't work hard to make sure you have it too.

[Perpetual]

This is silly, there is always all these stupid vs. threads. I mean really. If you like Vista, okay use vista, if you like linux use linux. Quit trying to compare them, quit trying to make one sound better than the other. Every OS has faults and bugs. Not every one runs into those bugs. Not everyone's computer can run that particular OS. SO WHAT! Quit doing being annoying and attacking the other OS because you don't like it, or you have had bad experiences with it.

Linux for me please, and all the free software to go with it too. But hey, if you like having to privacy and no freedoms, that is okay, just don't complain about security, because when the people in charge of it only care about their own, they certainly won't work hard to make sure you have it too.

Wait, you attacked in your second paragraph after saying don't attack in your first paragraph. :popcorn:

[rockface]

Wait, you attacked in your second paragraph after saying don't attack in your first paragraph. :popcorn:

I sort of think I know where he/she is coming from, even if one paragraph seemingly contradicted the other (but I could be wrong).

Before you make a choice, check out all the alternatives and their respective merits and consequences. Once you have made your choice, learn to live with it.

[10gallons]

I'm a Windows support tech, that's what I've done as a job for the past 19 years, from servers to desktops.

I upgraded to Vista, the only reason was so I knew what I was looking at when I got support calls for it.

I've always got on well with Windows and always thought the people who bagged Windows (you know, those Linux/Unix zealots) were just stupid always going on about how Windows was this n that and *nix was better, who really cares.

Anyway, Vista was the version of Windows that finally made me blow my cool and jump off the Windows bandwagon. Why? It can be summed up in one word.

SLOW!

I tweaked Vista to get as much speed out of it as I could, something I never did with XP or any Windows version for that matter. I was running Vista on a brand new name brand laptop with 2GB RAM. After 4 months the laptop was running just too slow, only 4 months!

Ubuntu is now on the laptop. The laptop is running faster than ever before, it starts and shuts down quicker and I beleive for maybe the first time in my life I am actually witnessing true multitasking.

Ubuntu has reborn my interest in PC's.

But, in closing, each to his own I say, but for me it's gonna be Linux from now on.

[ukripper]

I'm a Windows support tech, that's what I've done as a job for the past 19 years, from servers to desktops.

I upgraded to Vista, the only reason was so I knew what I was looking at when I got support calls for it.

I've always got on well with Windows and always thought the people who bagged Windows (you know, those Linux/Unix zealots) were just stupid always going on about how Windows was this n that and *nix was better, who really cares.

Anyway, Vista was the version of Windows that finally made me blow my cool and jump off the Windows bandwagon. Why? It can be summed up in one word.

SLOW!

I tweaked Vista to get as much speed out of it as I could, something I never did with XP or any Windows version for that matter. I was running Vista on a brand new name brand laptop with 2GB RAM. After 4 months the laptop was running just too slow, only 4 months!

Ubuntu is now on the laptop. The laptop is running faster than ever before, it starts and shuts down quicker and I beleive for maybe the first time in my life I am actually witnessing true multitasking.

Ubuntu has reborn my interest in PC's.

But, in closing, each to his own I say, but for me it's gonna be Linux from now on.

Nice post! This post can be moved to testimonial section if mods want.

[Frak]

I run Vista x64 w/ 5GB of RAM (weird amount, I know. Blame HP; I got it after a service run) and a 2.8Ghz Core 2 Duo.

I do have to say, this is faster than Ubuntu runs on default installation. With tons of services, it seems to hold it's own still. Ubuntu still doesn't detect the wireless in it (laptop). That's somewhat of a setback.

[SoulRyuu]

If ubuntu had true wireless support then I really believe even more people would make the jump, the fact my wireless never worked was the very reason i stayed with windows xp so long.

it's ok now though :)

[nikon_62]

If ubuntu had true wireless support then I really believe even more people would make the jump, the fact my wireless never worked was the very reason i stayed with windows xp so long.

it's ok now though :)

I feel exactly the same way about the wireless issues. Linux, specifically the Ubuntu flavor has come a long way in a short time but it's still not idiot proof. I don't know if the world would be a better place if it was anyway.

I'm a recent convert to Linux and I had a hard time getting my wireless working. It's going now but I get system lockups related to wireless sometimes.

I enjoy Linux so far but I never slam Windows either.

[lukjad007]

I never slam Windows
Well, you can't. You only have one copy and after that it's gone. ;)

[rockface]

I feel exactly the same way about the wireless issues. Linux, specifically the Ubuntu flavor has come a long way in a short time but it's still not idiot proof. I don't know if the world would be a better place if it was anyway.

I'm a recent convert to Linux and I had a hard time getting my wireless working. It's going now but I get system lockups related to wireless sometimes.

I enjoy Linux so far but I never slam Windows either.

The fact that any wireless (regardless of device or manufacture) works under Linux is a triumph in the face of adversity.

To this date how many of the hardware OEMs provide wireless driver and hardware specifics to the Linux kernel maintainers?

People blame Linux (not without foundation), but Windows people blame Linux and that is the end of it.

I think that if you provide the blueprint to your hardware openly and without NDA, the maintenance takes care of itself.

This is a naive viewpoint after all.

[nightfall47]

Wow, 232 pages in a thread made two years ago

[Amarsingh0793]

It's 117 pages from mine:confused:

[Perpetual]

It's 117 pages from mine:confused:

78 here ;)

Back on topic, I have been running Vista for 2 months and find it way more stable than XP ever hoped to be. Not 1 crash the entire time. I think Vista was on the short end of an anti-OS FUD campaign this time. However, when XP was released, it was attacked equally at the time. People dislike change.

[lukjad007]

True. But people also dislike having their computer picked up and tossed out the Window. :P

Vista=new PC

[Perpetual]

True. But people also dislike having their computer picked up and tossed out the Window. :P

Vista=new PC

I understand that argument as well. I will say though, that I bought my computer with XP...5 years ago? Upgrading it when a new OS and new technolgy comes out can be expected and I wasn't bothered by it. Had I bought it 6 months before Vista came out and it couldn't run Vista, I would wonder to myself why I but a computer with sub-par hardware.

[ukripper]

To sum up this whole thread-

"Right Tool For Right Job"

[Liviu-Theodor]

I understand that argument as well. I will say though, that I bought my computer with XP...5 years ago? Upgrading it when a new OS and new technolgy comes out can be expected and I wasn't bothered by it. Had I bought it 6 months before Vista came out and it couldn't run Vista, I would wonder to myself why I but a computer with sub-par hardware.

The problem is with Vista preinstalled on new hardware, that is in conformance even with the reccommended requirements, but on which Vista behaves poorly, if at all. And XP can be run even on some "negligible today" hardware, that was poor even when XP came out. Try this Vista on a new hardware, but with today poor performance. Good chances that will not even install. In a discussion on another thread (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=5916385&postcount=117), it seems I need 2 GB of RAM just to be able to use a standard keyboard and a standard mouse with Vista?!

[porchrat]

I understand that Vista needs to exist. It is OK once you get used to it, but I have had a few issues with it (lack of support for a wireless module...inside a laptop...sold WITH vista on it :().

There are some pieces of software that you must use a Microsoft OS for. Also if all you do is surf the web a little and check your email once in a while why not use XP or Vista, fewer issues to deal with setting it up especially if you are not tech orientated or aren't capable of putting in the time to research your problem.

I would still personally choose ubuntu over vista every time though.

[Amarsingh0793]

I'm glad Vista exists - it making everyone move to another OS :)

[Sponzenbroekske]

I'm glad Vista exists - it making everyone move to another OS :)

no ****!!!

ps nice system

[Amarsingh0793]

Thanks :)

[HittingSmoke]

78 here ;)

Back on topic, I have been running Vista for 2 months and find it way more stable than XP ever hoped to be. Not 1 crash the entire time. I think Vista was on the short end of an anti-OS FUD campaign this time. However, when XP was released, it was attacked equally at the time. People dislike change.

This is so true. Vista was slammed, for the most part, by people who didnt understand it, then by people who listened to those people and never gave it a chance in the first place. I ran it for a little over a year before making my final switch to pure Ubuntu and loved it functionality and eye-candy wise. I had very few crashes after running it for a year vs a year old XP install. The graphics were pretty amazing and border line useful in some cases. Stable (speaking relatively), best memory management of any Windows OS yet and it looked nice.

True. But people also dislike having their computer picked up and tossed out the Window. :P

Vista=new PC

Well, I'm running an AMD FX-60 and 1 GB of ram still and Vista ran great on it. I was told by tons of people, who obviously had never tried it, that you HAD to have 2 GB of RAM for Aero to run with any usability. This wasn't helped by the bashing that came from the tech "expert" bloggers.

After all this Vista praise you're probably wondering why I run Ubuntu exclusively now.

Vista proved to me that big-foot exists. He left his damn big foot print right in the middle of my system.

I can add transparency to my Ubuntu install, add the 3D Flip feature with many more customizable options, have the same intelligent memory management but in a much more mature implementation, desktop theming just as powerful as available on any Windows version (for free) and despite the arrogance and unhelpfulness commonly associated with Linux communities, this site has been far more helpful than any Windows forum full of "experts" who have a bit of registry editing experience that I've had to turn to. I can do all this without getting a pop up about low disk space after installing three games.

I've used Windows since I was about 6 and have been collecting knowledge on it since. After trying out Ubuntu I realized the wall that I hit in Windows. Windows was holding me back. In the past months I've been using Ubuntu I've felt nostalgia for days of DOS or simply running a DOS shell and actually interacting with the core mechanics of your PC, rather than being told what is and isnt OK to do with it. I feel like I'm learning new things again and I feel so much less constricted. Every obstacle Ubuntu throws at me and I have to overcome, the more comfortable I am using it.

Windows will not die any time soon, nor will Ubuntu. As long as commercial software is dominant, Windows will rule and Mac will keep trying to carve out a place by being even more closed off and expensive (read: trendy) than Microsoft.

Ubuntu will not die any time soon because there are those of us out there who aspire to a higher standard, and while Linux and Ubuntu may not (or ever) be the perfect OS, it is the only one we as users have any real small sense of control over. And as long as there are those of you who would rather make a difference rather than just write code for a paycheck, the open source community lives, as does Linux

[iposner]

HittingSmoke's post is well-argued and balanced.

I can only add that Vista's most compelling reason for XP users to upgrade is mostly overlooked -- Vista's UAC security takes a leaf out of Ubuntu's book -- if you like Ubuntu's security, then you'll approve of Vista's UAC which, if anything, is a bit better than that in Ubuntu. Thanks to Linux/BSD for raising the bar.

As for the Aero interface, that really requires a good graphics card, not oodles of memory.

I use Vista/Ubuntu dual boot (Centrino Duo 1.5GB) on my laptop -- Vista's for work as I have a lot of specialist diagnostic software plus Windows dev tools that simply don't exist on Linux. But when it comes to a quick surf/mail check, I boot into Ubuntu every time. Horses-for-courses, as they say.

[Perpetual]

This is so true. Vista was slammed, for the most part, by people who didnt understand it, then by people who listened to those people and never gave it a chance in the first place. I ran it for a little over a year before making my final switch to pure Ubuntu and loved it functionality and eye-candy wise. I had very few crashes after running it for a year vs a year old XP install. The graphics were pretty amazing and border line useful in some cases. Stable (speaking relatively), best memory management of any Windows OS yet and it looked nice.



Well, I'm running an AMD FX-60 and 1 GB of ram still and Vista ran great on it. I was told by tons of people, who obviously had never tried it, that you HAD to have 2 GB of RAM for Aero to run with any usability. This wasn't helped by the bashing that came from the tech "expert" bloggers.

After all this Vista praise you're probably wondering why I run Ubuntu exclusively now.

Vista proved to me that big-foot exists. He left his damn big foot print right in the middle of my system.

I can add transparency to my Ubuntu install, add the 3D Flip feature with many more customizable options, have the same intelligent memory management but in a much more mature implementation, desktop theming just as powerful as available on any Windows version (for free) and despite the arrogance and unhelpfulness commonly associated with Linux communities, this site has been far more helpful than any Windows forum full of "experts" who have a bit of registry editing experience that I've had to turn to. I can do all this without getting a pop up about low disk space after installing three games.

I've used Windows since I was about 6 and have been collecting knowledge on it since. After trying out Ubuntu I realized the wall that I hit in Windows. Windows was holding me back. In the past months I've been using Ubuntu I've felt nostalgia for days of DOS or simply running a DOS shell and actually interacting with the core mechanics of your PC, rather than being told what is and isnt OK to do with it. I feel like I'm learning new things again and I feel so much less constricted. Every obstacle Ubuntu throws at me and I have to overcome, the more comfortable I am using it.

Windows will not die any time soon, nor will Ubuntu. As long as commercial software is dominant, Windows will rule and Mac will keep trying to carve out a place by being even more closed off and expensive (read: trendy) than Microsoft.

Ubuntu will not die any time soon because there are those of us out there who aspire to a higher standard, and while Linux and Ubuntu may not (or ever) be the perfect OS, it is the only one we as users have any real small sense of control over. And as long as there are those of you who would rather make a difference rather than just write code for a paycheck, the open source community lives, as does Linux

Well said.

[HittingSmoke]

HittingSmoke's post is well-argued and balanced.

I can only add that Vista's most compelling reason for XP users to upgrade is mostly overlooked -- Vista's UAC security takes a leaf out of Ubuntu's book -- if you like Ubuntu's security, then you'll approve of Vista's UAC which, if anything, is a bit better than that in Ubuntu. Thanks to Linux/BSD for raising the bar.

As for the Aero interface, that really requires a good graphics card, not oodles of memory.

I use Vista/Ubuntu dual boot (Centrino Duo 1.5GB) on my laptop -- Vista's for work as I have a lot of specialist diagnostic software plus Windows dev tools that simply don't exist on Linux. But when it comes to a quick surf/mail check, I boot into Ubuntu every time. Horses-for-courses, as they say.

Thank you both.

On UAC... oh I dont want to even start on it. UAC could have been implemented in an excellent way, but instead was made, from a GUI stand point, to be just plain annoying. I ended up disabling it after using Vista for a week and ran problem free with no UAC. I was relieved when I first got a feel for Ubuntu's security measures and realized how it manages a well locked down and secure experience for the everyday user without dictating to me what is and isn't OK for me to do. I have to do my homework to screw up Ubuntu, Vista I can hose by simply cliking "OK" on a very vague security pop up that tells me something might be suspicious about what I'm doing.

If you're inexperienced enough to download and execute a potential virus in Vista, you're not going to be bothered by Vista telling you this is "potentially harmful" after you have seen the same screen upon executing dozens of perfectly legit .exe files downloaded from reputable sites.

Ubuntu makes it a painful endeavor to download anything outside of the repos for new users. So by the time you learn to download programs from the web, you should already be comfortable with filtering malicious software out vs legitimate sites. This is something that frustrated me when I first toyed around with it, but it is something I've come to appreciate as a sort of buffer as I learned Ubuntu. Thanks to this I only went through one "trial" Ubuntu install before I knew exactly what i wanted and now I have my exclusive Ubuntu Linux PC running as my main desktop after only two installs.

P.S. Edit.

I think the reason most people ranted and raved about needing massive amount of memory in Vista is they didn't understand how intelligent memory management works. Someone with 1 GB of RAM said "OMG Vista is usin all my rams!" and it just carried on from there. It's amazing how some of these so called "experts" get jobs at some of the best selling tech magazines.

[aimpau]

The great PC challenge!

Just to share:

I ran into some of my classmates who where really interested in my gf's once-linux-now-xp P3 laptop. So I said I can give them some "show-off" orientation. Now, some of them are die hard vista users and quickly contend that linux is a bloat and that it doesn't provide any excellent hardware support. With that said, I challenge them to my unique PC challenge. I ask each of them to bring a specific PC hardware and we will make a PC from scratch.

Here's what they brought:

1 80GB SATA HDD
1 SOCKET AM for AMD
1 Sempron 1200
2 512MB DDR2
1 nVidia PCI-E vid card
1 PSU
1 WLAN PCI-E
1 DVD/CD combo
1 internal modem
1 CRT monitor

I brought my Xubuntu desktop HD (the one I'm using right now).

So all of us brought a unique PC hardware and since no one knows who would bring what, there isn't any biasing. So, we setup the PC.

First: Xubuntu

I plugin my Xubuntu HD. Started the computer while all of them are scrambling to get all of the CDROMS for the Hardware drivers. Haha! I took about 20 secs to boot to my desktop. Took me 1 min to setup the vid (i had envyng-gtk, screenlets and compiz-fusion installed). Hahaha! The moment we landed on my desktop, they were amazed that there were already widgets floating, and of course, I amazed them with the never ending cube, plus a lots more. We tested out the wireless, worked. The DVD, worked. We connected a USB printer, worked. Ethernet, worked. I even played warzone for a few minutes. They were flat out amazed in just 30 minutes of showtime. Just a note however, the internal modem didn't showed up in the network manager. Hmmm...

Next: Vista

We waited about 30 minutes to format the New HD and installed Vista. Then they proceeded to install all the hardware drivers. Took about another 30 minutes or so due to constant restart. However, as they near the boot up screen of vista, something went totally wrong since it crashed unable to boot. Turns out the internal modem was broken. Removing it solved the problem. Now they showed off the skills of Vista but then, Vista informed us that by running more programs would slow down the PC significantly. Huh?

Conclusion:
Get ready for the new xubuntunation! :D

[rockface]

The great PC challenge!

Just to share:

I ran into some of my classmates who where really interested in my gf's once-linux-now-xp P3 laptop. So I said I can give them some "show-off" orientation. Now, some of them are die hard vista users and quickly contend that linux is a bloat and that it doesn't provide any excellent hardware support. With that said, I challenge them to my unique PC challenge. I ask each of them to bring a specific PC hardware and we will make a PC from scratch.

Here's what they brought:

1 80GB SATA HDD
1 SOCKET AM for AMD
1 Sempron 1200
2 512MB DDR2
1 nVidia PCI-E vid card
1 PSU
1 WLAN PCI-E
1 DVD/CD combo
1 internal modem
1 CRT monitor

I brought my Xubuntu desktop HD (the one I'm using right now).

So all of us brought a unique PC hardware and since no one knows who would bring what, there isn't any biasing. So, we setup the PC.

First: Xubuntu

I plugin my Xubuntu HD. Started the computer while all of them are scrambling to get all of the CDROMS for the Hardware drivers. Haha! I took about 20 secs to boot to my desktop. Took me 1 min to setup the vid (i had envyng-gtk, screenlets and compiz-fusion installed). Hahaha! The moment we landed on my desktop, they were amazed that there were already widgets floating, and of course, I amazed them with the never ending cube, plus a lots more. We tested out the wireless, worked. The DVD, worked. We connected a USB printer, worked. Ethernet, worked. I even played warzone for a few minutes. They were flat out amazed in just 30 minutes of showtime. Just a note however, the internal modem didn't showed up in the network manager. Hmmm...

Next: Vista

We waited about 30 minutes to format the New HD and installed Vista. Then they proceeded to install all the hardware drivers. Took about another 30 minutes or so due to constant restart. However, as they near the boot up screen of vista, something went totally wrong since it crashed unable to boot. Turns out the internal modem was broken. Removing it solved the problem. Now they showed off the skills of Vista but then, Vista informed us that by running more programs would slow down the PC significantly. Huh?

Conclusion:
Get ready for the new xubuntunation! :D

This is pretty much my own experience. I've seen people swear and curse over Vista, even after a clean install (OEM installations are the pits).

They then turn to me to fix the problem that I told them would manifest itself further down the line. No amount of advice or commonsense will sway them in their belief that they must have Vista.

Many now have paid extra for Windows XP or have simply gone and purchased a Mac. I would like to say I managed to persuade them to try Linux, but that would be a lie.

Does Vista deserve the reputation it has gained? Probably not all, but there is no smoke without fire.

The lesson has been learned the hard way. With Microsoft supporting XP for the near future, if you must use Windows use XP. By the time Microsoft gets Vista stable enough, they will be trying to flog you Windows 7.

[FrankVdb]

Well, I bought Vista because I was forced to when buying a new PC here in Belgium and it was not stable at all. That PC stopped letting me down when I installed Ubuntu on it.

I am now trying out Windows 7 in a virtual machine (on top of Ubuntu, obviously) on a new workstation. The beta ISO I downloaded from the Microsoft site installed in less than 20 minutes, which was not bad. However, I've played around with it but there is nothing there that would convince me to drop Ubuntu.

Especially because Windows 7 will only be had if you are willing to put a pile of cash on the table.

What for?? I'd be willing to pay for something real innovative, though...