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Garyu
August 29th, 2006, 09:10 PM
This puzzles me. There was invented a great thing called Automatix. It installed all the things that EasyUbuntu does, and also a load of apps in new versions than those in the repos. Now EasyUbuntu is on the forums first page, but I have to search to find Automatix, even though I'm pretty sure Arnieboy was the first one to do this and also made a solution with more options (although without the fancy graphics and logo). So WHY is EasuUbuntu listed and Automatix not? And why doesn't EasyUbuntu include all the things that is in Automatix? I mean, they are identical except Automatix is more complete since it also deals with apps (like Wine), not only drivers and codecs.

meng
August 29th, 2006, 09:11 PM
Arnieboy asked for Automatix to be removed.

cstudent
August 29th, 2006, 09:15 PM
You can find Automatix here:

http://www.getautomatix.com/

Garyu
August 29th, 2006, 09:37 PM
Did someone **** him off in some way or what? To me it just seems stupid to have two apps doing the same thing in an open source community. Why can't we all just work together?

Anyways, I found the Automatix website and was glad to see that a python version is coming up. Which makes me ponder even more about the use of EasyUbuntu, not to discourage anyone, I'm sure it's great in many ways, but since Arnieboys app is more complete (with installation of wine, thunderbird, anjuta, gaim2, and so on) that just has to be the better choice for everyone, or am I missing out on something here?

matthew
August 29th, 2006, 09:58 PM
I want to say this in the most polite and respectful way possible...um...

Arnieboy has occasionally had some struggles with interpersonal relationships.

Yeah, that's about all I want to say.

EDIT: just for the record, these words are my own and do not constitute an official statement by the staff or administration of the Ubuntu Forums. I represent only myself here. :)

meng
August 29th, 2006, 10:02 PM
More than one open-source app that does pretty much the same thing? But that's rife in the OSS community! And in some ways, a good thing - more freedom for the consumer (freedom of choice), and if one project goes belly-up, the other one is still there (while we all wait for a third one to come along...)

justin whitaker
August 29th, 2006, 10:06 PM
I want to say this in the most polite and respectful way possible...um...

Arnieboy has occasionally had some struggles with interpersonal relationships.

Yeah, that's about all I want to say.

That has to be the funniest thing I've read all day! :mrgreen:

I don't actually understand this thread...it's not as if Automatix is buried in the forums somewhere.....

Emerzen
August 29th, 2006, 10:11 PM
Would he be opposed to just a link on the Forums home page under 3rd party projects? I can understand his wanting to move the thread to his own website, but I think at least a link would be helpful for users. Personally, I refer a lot of new users to Automatix (nothing against Easy, just not familiar w/ it), and it would be nice to have it on the front page.

meng
August 29th, 2006, 10:14 PM
Not a bad idea, except that I'm not convinced that users are going to see it before they post. So will it save any time really?

Emerzen
August 29th, 2006, 10:20 PM
I think it may save some time, but also affords some peace of mind. ..as in, I've been up all night trying to get my DVD player working and I've had it and how the heck do I find that Automat[r]ix thing...maybe it's just my OCD, dunno?

KiwiNZ
August 29th, 2006, 10:29 PM
arnieboy made a request to the Administrators of this Forum for the Third Party forum for automatix be closed.
As arnieboy was the originator of the App and the Third Party forum for it we complied with his request.

He felt that that as he has his own web site site here http://www.getautomatix.com and his own support forum here http://www.getautomatix.com/forum/ that he can best provide support there.

Jenda
August 30th, 2006, 12:27 AM
This puzzles me. There was invented a great thing called Automatix. It installed all the things that EasyUbuntu does, and also a load of apps in new versions than those in the repos. Now EasyUbuntu is on the forums first page, but I have to search to find Automatix, even though I'm pretty sure Arnieboy was the first one to do this and also made a solution with more options (although without the fancy graphics and logo). So WHY is EasuUbuntu listed and Automatix not? And why doesn't EasyUbuntu include all the things that is in Automatix? I mean, they are identical except Automatix is more complete since it also deals with apps (like Wine), not only drivers and codecs.

I'll have to vouch for EasyUbuntu here.
For one thing, automatix is originally a fork of EasyUbuntu, started by 'Keyes' a looong time ago.
EasyUbuntu was also the first to support Dapper, Kubuntu and the non-mainstream architectures.
For another thing - EasyUbuntu has a policy of keeping it down, not trying to replace apt, for example. EU doesn't install apps that can be installed with synaptic. Completeness can be more than the sheer number of things the script can do.

Emerzen
August 30th, 2006, 02:28 AM
good points all...maybe I'll try EU next time. A link to Automatix would still be nice, in my opinion. But maybe there's more behind the scenes that I don't know about preventing it. In any case, I think both projects are a a boon to Ubuntu and I'm glad they're available.

nikkkko
August 30th, 2006, 11:49 AM
Arnieboy has occasionally had some struggles with interpersonal relationships.

Yeah, that's about all I want to say.


I think you've said quite a lot, mostly about yourself.

ubuntu-geek
August 30th, 2006, 03:49 PM
This puzzles me. There was invented a great thing called Automatix. It installed all the things that EasyUbuntu does, and also a load of apps in new versions than those in the repos. Now EasyUbuntu is on the forums first page, but I have to search to find Automatix, even though I'm pretty sure Arnieboy was the first one to do this and also made a solution with more options (although without the fancy graphics and logo). So WHY is EasuUbuntu listed and Automatix not? And why doesn't EasyUbuntu include all the things that is in Automatix? I mean, they are identical except Automatix is more complete since it also deals with apps (like Wine), not only drivers and codecs.
Arnieboy requested we remove it. He has a website that offers support for it.

Garyu
August 30th, 2006, 04:01 PM
Well, a lot of replies, and a lot of interesting ones. Clearly this is a sensitive subject right now, I haven't seen this many admins and forum staff acting on a thread at once like here, but then again I don't read each and every thread either.

Anyways, thanks for your replies, it clears things up a bit. Arnieboy don't want to go here to answer Automatix questions since he has his own forum on his site, which is understandable. Why you can't set up a link to his page and forum with an explanation that it is a stand alone project I will probably never understand, it seems unlikely that Arnieboy would hate you for recommending his application. Also, it seems unlikely that anyone would hate you for making Automatix easy to reach. Maybe EasyUbuntu is as good an alternative or even better for some people, for me Automatix is still the way to go. And now I know where to find it and why, so I really don't give a hoot about this thread any more, even though I think you should all learn to communicate and cooperate a bit more. :-#

frodon
August 30th, 2006, 04:11 PM
Why you can't set up a link to his page and forum with an explanation that it is a stand alone project I will probably never understand, it seems unlikely that Arnieboy would hate you for recommending his application. Also, it seems unlikely that anyone would hate you for making Automatix easy to reach.Because we don't do that for any third party project and this could be seen as an irritating priviledge by some users.
If someone want a third party forum for a project he is free to request it and then advertize the related website in the project third party forum.

omns
August 31st, 2006, 07:02 AM
He felt that that as he has his own web site site here http://www.getautomatix.com and his own support forum here http://www.getautomatix.com/forum/ that he can best provide support there.

Just a reminder that the decision to move support to the getautomatix site was made by the Automatix team and not just Arnie. Automatix whilst lead by Arnie, is a team effort and operates as such.

KiwiNZ
August 31st, 2006, 08:20 AM
Good point Manicka , my apologies to the rest of the automatix team

matthew
August 31st, 2006, 09:29 AM
You're right. Sorry for minimizing the contributions of the other team members. That was unintentional.
Just a reminder that the decision to move support to the getautomatix site was made by the Automatix team and not just Arnie. Automatix whilst lead by Arnie, is a team effort and operates as such.

delphi
August 31st, 2006, 03:19 PM
... I'm pretty sure Arnieboy was the first one to do this and also made a solution with more options (although without the fancy graphics and logo)...

Automatix, in fact, was initially just a straight copy of Easy Ubuntu with additional packages. As to number of packages - I find that using Easy Ubuntu gets most (if not all) of the 'base' things I want to install that are not available in official repos.

prizrak
August 31st, 2006, 03:56 PM
Automatix and Easy Ubuntu are a bit different. Easy Ubuntu is there to set up what is not in the official repositories and makes life a little easier. Automatix is meant to be a complete "fire-and-forget" setup script. It has the most popular software regardless of availability in the repos and is meant to largely setup a new installation automatically. It is not for everybody plenty of people have no need for alot of Automatix stuff and would be better off with something else but those who need/want it have the option.

wpshooter
August 31st, 2006, 08:38 PM
I have seen advice elsewhere on these forums regarding NOT using either one of these tools and from my personal experience I tend to think they are right.

Whenever I have attempted to use either of these, they have usually NOT install the app correctly or completely, i.e. things did not work as they should after using them.

IMO, you are better off installing programs with the tools that are provided by Ubuntu or from the software vendor(s) that actually wrote the software you are trying to use.

Thanks.

Jenda
August 31st, 2006, 09:07 PM
IMO, you are better off installing programs with the tools that are provided by Ubuntu or from the software vendor(s) that actually wrote the software you are trying to use.
That doesn't really reflect the open and distributed spirit of FLOSS, does it?
Ubuntu does not provide the tools needed for legal/political reasons, and it is the choice of the community to provide them... well, kind of under the table. EasyUbuntu is as close to official as we can get at the moment (which isn't too close).

wpshooter
August 31st, 2006, 09:20 PM
Legal or whatever, if they don't perform as expected, what good are they.

Garyu
August 31st, 2006, 10:51 PM
Legal or whatever, if they don't perform as expected, what good are they.

Automatix has never given me any kind of trouble, and I've used it lots of times on different sets of hardware. Or, actually, I did have one problem once; the repository used by Automatix for something went dead for a while, but that was easy to fix. So for me and loads of other people it performs precisely as expected. Then there are always unlucky fellows who get a power shortage in the middle of an install or something, but that has screwed up Ubuntu too without the use of 3rd party software. Make sure you're blaming the right guy here, if general electric or whoever is at fault and you didn't backup your data, then don't point your finger at Automatix.

Anyways, no one is forcing you to use any kind of software. But in the name of freedom, everything this useful should be available to the public. Maybe Automatix (and EasyUbuntu) should be in the ubuntu repos instead of on a separate site or on this forum? If nvidia drivers can be there, then why not Automatix? But I guess that is a question that should be asked in an entirely different setting - with the ubuntu repo guys.

Jenda
August 31st, 2006, 11:59 PM
I believe EasyUbuntu is working on that possibility, Garyu.

omns
September 7th, 2006, 09:09 AM
Maybe Automatix (and EasyUbuntu) should be in the ubuntu repos instead of on a separate site or on this forum? If nvidia drivers can be there, then why not Automatix? But I guess that is a question that should be asked in an entirely different setting - with the ubuntu repo guys.

This spec on the wiki may interest you

https://wiki.ubuntu.com/CommonCustomizations

Kilz
September 7th, 2006, 03:46 PM
Automatix has never given me any kind of trouble, and I've used it lots of times on different sets of hardware. Or, actually, I did have one problem once; the repository used by Automatix for something went dead for a while, but that was easy to fix. So for me and loads of other people it performs precisely as expected. Then there are always unlucky fellows who get a power shortage in the middle of an install or something, but that has screwed up Ubuntu too without the use of 3rd party software. Make sure you're blaming the right guy here, if general electric or whoever is at fault and you didn't backup your data, then don't point your finger at Automatix.

Anyways, no one is forcing you to use any kind of software. But in the name of freedom, everything this useful should be available to the public. Maybe Automatix (and EasyUbuntu) should be in the ubuntu repos instead of on a separate site or on this forum? If nvidia drivers can be there, then why not Automatix? But I guess that is a question that should be asked in an entirely different setting - with the ubuntu repo guys.


I have seen and read a number of horror stories about using Automatrix. I think its an ok tool, but like any piece of software there exists the possibility of problems when used on different machines. Pretending that it is perfect and cant possibly do wrong is something sane people should think about before posting. Just because you didn't have problems doesn't mean that those that did are at fault.
Second, the creator of Automatrix asked for the sub forum to be removed. His choice, that's why its no longer on this forum. Personally, imho, I dont think anything that adds what could be illegal software should be included in any ubuntu.

msandersen
September 7th, 2006, 04:52 PM
Personally, imho, I dont think anything that adds what could be illegal software should be included in any ubuntu.
Sounds a little slanderous. Yes, dvdcss is illegal in the US, but not everywhere. Most of the rest has to do with either being proprietary but free (like Flash or Java) or copyright encumbered (like MP3, AAC, and other codecs) which somehow clash with the philosophy of Ubuntu only distributing free (as in -dom) software. That's not to say that including something like EasyUbuntu by default on the Desktop for people to easily download and install what Ubuntu can't or won't distribute with a GPL system is a bad thing or is in any way illegal. As long as EasyUbuntu itself is free, it meets the requirements for inclusion, leaving the decision to install proprietary codecs, drivers, plugins and VMs to the user. It just takes the pain out of the decision to install them, or even informing people of their absence. Mepis users hail its bundling of copyrighted codecs and easy installation of the display drivers. That's what Ubuntu needs if its to become more widespread. It could in fact be integrated into the graphical installer at the end, as long as the internet is set up and working.

Garyu
September 7th, 2006, 05:36 PM
Second, the creator of Automatrix asked for the sub forum to be removed. His choice, that's why its no longer on this forum. Personally, imho, I dont think anything that adds what could be illegal software should be included in any ubuntu.

Actually, Arnieboy asked that the Automatix-forum be CLOSED BUT NOT REMOVED. This is also what has been done as I understand it. However, for some reason closed 3rd-party forums don't appear in the list so you have to use the search function to find them. But as I understand all of the Automatix threads are fully searchable.

I also read up a bit on the link that GrantG provided, and it seems a lot of things are being added to the "add/remove programs" thing. It used to be totally inferior to Synaptic so I haven't looked at it for a long time, but now there are lots of useful things in there. As I understand things from what I read on the mentiond wiki-page they are also talking about inkluding things that are in Automatix/EasyUbuntu in this piece of software (like for instance nautilus-scripts and so forth).

In the world of Ubuntu good things happen every day. It's just difficult to keep up with them sometimes. I for one would rather use "add/remove programs" than EasyUbuntu or Automatix, if it gets the same job done. Until it does on every level Automatix and EasyUbuntu are both a welcome addition to my desktop. And I don't think other ubuntu'ers are that different from me. :cool:

Kilz
September 7th, 2006, 06:55 PM
Sounds a little slanderous. Yes, dvdcss is illegal in the US, but not everywhere. Most of the rest has to do with either being proprietary but free (like Flash or Java) or copyright encumbered (like MP3, AAC, and other codecs) which somehow clash with the philosophy of Ubuntu only distributing free (as in -dom) software. That's not to say that including something like EasyUbuntu by default on the Desktop for people to easily download and install what Ubuntu can't or won't distribute with a GPL system is a bad thing or is in any way illegal. As long as EasyUbuntu itself is free, it meets the requirements for inclusion, leaving the decision to install proprietary codecs, drivers, plugins and VMs to the user. It just takes the pain out of the decision to install them, or even informing people of their absence. Mepis users hail its bundling of copyrighted codecs and easy installation of the display drivers. That's what Ubuntu needs if its to become more widespread. It could in fact be integrated into the graphical installer at the end, as long as the internet is set up and working.
Dvdcss is the only thing I'm referring to . Its also illegal in other countries besides the USA. In fact any country that signed the WIPO Copyright Treaty should make it illegal. Applications that allow its distribution abuse copyright laws. IMHO I don't think any Linux distro should incorporate that. While some countries ha vent arrested anyone for distributing it, its entirely possible they could. I would rather have a distro that doesn't take that chance. Because circumventing someone elses copyright is just as bad as someone taking foss code and putting in in a proprietary piece of software. I think we lower our ideals when we break laws for the sake of watching a dvd. If you are in some other country that didn't sign the treaty, well then maybe its ok for you to get it. But I have a strange feeling 90% of the people on the english forums are living in places that its illegal.

Kilz
September 7th, 2006, 07:09 PM
Actually, Arnieboy asked that the Automatix-forum be CLOSED BUT NOT REMOVED. This is also what has been done as I understand it. However, for some reason closed 3rd-party forums don't appear in the list so you have to use the search function to find them. But as I understand all of the Automatix threads are fully searchable.

I also read up a bit on the link that GrantG provided, and it seems a lot of things are being added to the "add/remove programs" thing. It used to be totally inferior to Synaptic so I haven't looked at it for a long time, but now there are lots of useful things in there. As I understand things from what I read on the mentiond wiki-page they are also talking about inkluding things that are in Automatix/EasyUbuntu in this piece of software (like for instance nautilus-scripts and so forth).

In the world of Ubuntu good things happen every day. It's just difficult to keep up with them sometimes. I for one would rather use "add/remove programs" than EasyUbuntu or Automatix, if it gets the same job done. Until it does on every level Automatix and EasyUbuntu are both a welcome addition to my desktop. And I don't think other ubuntu'ers are that different from me. :cool:

While I have only read what was posted. (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=237901) To me it looks like the asking for the sub forum to be closed was in responce to something that happened in irc chat. The posts appear to be unto like a little boy that gets mad and takes his toys home when he doesnt get his way.](*,)
Personaly I believe when he asked for the forum to be closed, all the posts should have been wiped. Any sticky's shoulld have been removed. While I cant read minds, it looks to me that Arnieboy didnt think once about the people who use automatrix, he wanted to cause a stink. :sad:
If he really cared about the people using the application. He never would have asked for the sub forum to be closed.:-# I wish Automatrix all the luck in the world. But I am not going to sit back and let someone say that it was the communities or mods fault that it isnt here any more.[-X

omns
September 7th, 2006, 09:55 PM
While I have only read what was posted. (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=237901) To me it looks like the asking for the sub forum to be closed was in responce to something that happened in irc chat. The posts appear to be unto like a little boy that gets mad and takes his toys home when he doesnt get his way.](*,)
Personaly I believe when he asked for the forum to be closed, all the posts should have been wiped. Any sticky's shoulld have been removed. While I cant read minds, it looks to me that Arnieboy didnt think once about the people who use automatrix, he wanted to cause a stink. :sad:
If he really cared about the people using the application. He never would have asked for the sub forum to be closed.:-# I wish Automatrix all the luck in the world. But I am not going to sit back and let someone say that it was the communities or mods fault that it isnt here any more.[-X

Yes, the decision to close the sub-forum was initiated by an incident in IRC but it wasn't as a simplistic decision as you have betrayed. The idea of moving support to the getautomatix.com site was something that the Automatix team had been discussing for some time to centralise the support being offered. That IRC incident just finalised the decision which was made by the team.

Kilz
September 7th, 2006, 11:41 PM
Yes, the decision to close the sub-forum was initiated by an incident in IRC but it wasn't as a simplistic decision as you have betrayed. The idea of moving support to the getautomatix.com site was something that the Automatix team had been discussing for some time to centralise the support being offered. That IRC incident just finalised the decision which was made by the team.

It wasnt?


Hi admins,
I want the whole of the Automatix forum closed with immediate effect. I will not offer any explanations till Brunellus (one of your forum mods) publicly apologizes to me on this thread.
Thanks and regards,
Arnie

You can say whatever you want to try and make it look like it was a team decision. But the words in the quoted post spell out a different history. The sub forum wasnt closed to centralise anything. They were closed because arnieboy wanted them closed if he didnt get a apology. For something that didnt even happen on the forums. To me the old saying about age and shoe size may be applied here.

omns
September 8th, 2006, 12:09 AM
Kilz, you are simply wrong about this. I know because I was there in IRC at the time and recommended the change myself in the Automatix staff forum. I don't believe that dragging it through the forums any further will do anybody any good at all.

Let's let sleeping dogs lie and get on with helping Ubuntu :)

barish
Grant

Kilz
September 8th, 2006, 04:44 AM
Kilz, you are simply wrong about this. I know because I was there in IRC at the time and recommended the change myself in the Automatix staff forum. I don't believe that dragging it through the forums any further will do anybody any good at all.

Let's let sleeping dogs lie and get on with helping Ubuntu :)

barish
Grant

You may have suggested it in the past at some point. But the reasons given for closing the sub forum wasn't to centralize. The reason was because an apology wasn't given, for something that didn't even happen on the forum. I don't believe for one second that Arnieboy had the forums closed because of centralization. [-(
You may also say it doesn't do Ubuntu any good to go over this again. When in fact it doesn't do Automatrix any good to go over it again. Because if more people actually read whats posted they may not agree with revisionist history. Sorry but I have never been one to go along with a lie.
I'm so glad posts in the resolution center cant be removed or edited once posted there. :D

omns
September 8th, 2006, 08:16 AM
I have nothing further to say Kilz, if you choose to not believe me - so be it.

Peace and best wishes to you.

elamericano
September 8th, 2006, 09:19 AM
u did a very wrong thing Brunellus
u know what?
now u need to publicly apologize to me
because if u dont
the whole automatix forum goes off

So this was the plan? No of course it wasn't, but if the Automatix team feels this suits their long term plans anyway, then it's a lucky coincidence.

No need to dwell on it, but let's recognize the mistake and hope that people learn from it. The change affected a lot of people. Your "plan" could have included some way to make the transition as smooth as possible. I think it would be good to keep that in mind when you are helping the people who are asking, "Where is Automatix?"

Best of luck, and thanks for contributing.

omns
September 8th, 2006, 09:32 AM
Due to other commitments I am no longer involved with Automatix.

I was just trying to clarify a few points and help move on from the anger that is being directed towards the project..... sigh

egon spengler
September 8th, 2006, 12:25 PM
Sounds a little slanderous. Yes, dvdcss is illegal in the US

So in other words the post was not all slanderous.

Kilz
September 8th, 2006, 12:54 PM
Due to other commitments I am no longer involved with Automatix.

I was just trying to clarify a few points and help move on from the anger that is being directed towards the project..... sigh

If you think I have anger towards a project, you are wrong. A project is a thing, it produces a thing. Hard to get angery at a thing.
What I do not like is revisionist history and some of the comments I have read that want to find who blame for Automatrix not being here. That blame, if it lies with anyone, is with Arnieboy. The staff here would in my opinion left the forum alone if he didnt ask for its removal. IMHO he lashed out because something was said. But he did it towards a forum. The people that truly hurts are Ubuntu users. :( That lowerd my opinion of the person, not the project.

arnieboy
September 9th, 2006, 02:52 AM
contrary to what a handful of folks believe and want to prove.. Automatix has moved for reasons much more important than personal tiffs..
later.
-Arnie

Kilz
September 9th, 2006, 08:02 PM
contrary to what a handful of folks believe and want to prove.. Automatix has moved for reasons much more important than personal tiffs..
later.
-Arnie

Sounds like more revisioist history to me. Your own words in the resolution center wont go away. They can be understood clearly. Move on if you think you can. But learn from the past instead of trying to rewrite it.

"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it."

KiwiNZ
September 9th, 2006, 08:34 PM
This is history , let it go

aysiu
September 9th, 2006, 09:10 PM
I don't really care why Automatix is gone. The history doesn't matter. The present matters--Automatix has its own website, its own forum, and Automatix users can get help. Isn't that what really matters?

Kilz
September 12th, 2006, 01:47 PM
I don't really care why Automatix is gone. The history doesn't matter. The present matters--Automatix has its own website, its own forum, and Automatix users can get help. Isn't that what really matters?

Not to drag this up again. But the history I was refering to was personal history. Not the history of the forum. In other words learn from mistakes.

jtbl
September 12th, 2006, 09:02 PM
The team has been talking about moving to our own forum for about 2 months now for the reason of better support for multiple distributions. Automatix is already supporting Mepis and will support more distros in the future. It makes more sense to not be in a single distro forum when supporting multiple distros. Now for the part about what happened on the irc chat I dont blame anyone in the chat for the closing of the Automatix section on Ubuntu Forums, but what I do blame some of the those people for is being disrespectful which being disrespectful seem to be too common among the Ubuntu community.

aysiu
September 12th, 2006, 09:30 PM
Not to drag this up again. But the history I was refering to was personal history. Not the history of the forum. In other words learn from mistakes.
I know.

I'm saying the personal histories involved (whatever alleged disputes or interpersonal issues may have occurred) in the moving of Automatix from the Ubuntu Forums doesn't matter.

What matters is that Automatix has its own forum where users can get help.

Adamant1988
September 12th, 2006, 09:37 PM
contrary to what a handful of folks believe and want to prove.. Automatix has moved for reasons much more important than personal tiffs..
later.
-Arnie
I have a log with you in it that says otherwise ;)

Garyu
September 12th, 2006, 10:05 PM
being disrespectful seem to be too common among the Ubuntu community.

I'm sorry, but what the F are you guys doing here? I opened this thread to find out why the Automatix forum is missing, that question has been answered many times over by now. so drop it already.

This thread was NOT intended as a flaming territory on anyone or any project. Stop throwing crap around. If you have a problem with a person, give it to them in a PM.

As for the Ubuntu community, it is almost religious in the warm and welcoming attitude it has shown me. But, as any community, it consists of people and people make mistakes (even admins and project leaders). That does not mean that those people are bad, it just makes them human.

Community forums, in my opinion, is not a place for revenge or slander (this goes to all involved here and other places). It is simply here to spread the truth and help others (unless stated otherwise, like some of the forums sorted under "Ubuntu café").

So grow up, get over it, or do whatever you have to do. Let's just try to spread some love and understanding instead of throwing stones at eachother. That, and only that, will make the world a better place, and should be the founding stones of any community - this in particular.

matthew
September 12th, 2006, 10:38 PM
It really is time to move on...this thread has long outlived its usefulness. I'm closing it now.