Hey! Guitar players, let's chat.

[Bezmotivnik]

especially in a home studio environment where VSTs and MIDI can improve everything immensely.
Improve? They're essential!

don't shun MIDI just because it's MIDI until you've seen how far they've come with this stuff. I mean, drum synths and stuff like Garritan is invaluable for me and sounds completely organic if you know how to use it.

Most people don't understand that MIDI is just interface control data.

Velocity-layered samples are very impressive and can pretty much replace the real thing -- and have. I use DFH run from my electronic drum set because I don't have room for my acoustic kit in the studio and I can' t take the noise anyway. With seven velocity layers taken from pro kits in a pro studio, it's really hard to tell the difference. I don't know how something like the Bosendorfer Grand Piano setup works for classical-grade keys, but drums are pretty much there.

A good, compact MIDI controller is absolutely essential for the home studio to run the myriad of softsynths out there.

[Visti]

Improve? They're essential!



Most people don't understand that MIDI is just interface control data.

Velocity-layered samples are very impressive and can pretty much replace the real thing -- and have. I use DFH run from my electronic drum set because I don't have room for my acoustic kit in the studio and I can' t take the noise anyway. With seven velocity layers taken from pro kits in a pro studio, it's really hard to tell the difference. I don't know how something like the Bosendorfer Grand Piano setup works for classical-grade keys, but drums are pretty much there.

A good, compact MIDI controller is absolutely essential for the home studio to run the myriad of softsynths out there.


I completely agree. I can't imagine composing stuff without DFH/EZD now.. It just makes laying everything out so easy.

[shen-an-doah]

I can't afford DFH or anything fancy like that, so I use Hydrogen and find it to be pretty damn good. I just messed about with all the default samples in Wavelab to get them to sound how I want.

[Bezmotivnik]

I use ear buds ocasionally, but I never blast it. so I don't think I'm damaging my ears with them, but I know a few kids who definitely are.
They probably smoke, too, huh? :roll:

[Bezmotivnik]

So, any love for the Gibson so-called "SG bass," in reality an interpretive EB-3 reissue?

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/2/0/4/230204.jpg

There currently are some very long deals on the so-called "Supreme," (http://cgi.ebay.com/Gibson-SG-Supreme-Bass-Guitar_W0QQitemZ260214216637QQihZ016QQcategoryZ644 02QQtcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem) like nearly 2/3 off, but I don't much care for the washed-out looking natural finish or maple cap. It bombed in the marketplace and they couldn't even sell the four hundred units they made...of course the near-$2000 MSRP didn't help, or that Gibson substantially overrated the alleged "AAA" top (note numerous ugly flaws in that linked eBay example).
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/9/1/3/471913.jpg
What I'd prefer is one of the cheap "Faded" versions...
http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/5/7/5/491575.jpg
...but at this point, one would cost me more than the Supreme. Eh.

The usual drawbacks: It's a short-scale, it probably has dreadful SG neck-dive, there's Gibson's notoriously risky build quality...but the original EB-3 "mudbucker" pickup has been corrected and there's not as much for Gibson to screw up on an SG, so it's not quite as risky.

What I really want is a reissue EB-0, but Gibson doesn't make them.

I dunno, maybe I'm just bored...:-k

[Bezmotivnik]

Will there finally be a Fender "Broadcaster" again -- after fifty-eight years?

FMIC just bought Kaman Musical (Hamer, Ovation, etc.).

The original Fender "Broadcaster" was regarded by Gretsch Drums as being an infringement on their "Broadcaster" drum kits, so Leo came up with "Telecaster" for the new guitar's name.

When FMIC bought Gretsch guitars a few years ago, the first thing I asked Fender management was if that meant that they could use the "Broadcaster" name again for a reissue, but I was told that to everyone's disappointment, the name belonged to Gretsch DRUMS, which was owned by Kaman.

Now Kaman belongs to Fender, who now finally own the "Broadcaster" name.

Can the Fender Broadcaster rise again after fifty-eight years? :confused:

[Patrick-Ruff]

They probably smoke, too, huh? :roll:

heh, smoke what specifically? ;). I know one that is completely clean that just blasts them, but he owns a lot of high powered rifles and pistols so I suspect that's why he turns his up so loud. I like earbuds though, they're convienant. I can just pull one out and listen to my music while talking to people.

though, at the moment that's not really an option for me ;).

by the way, I like that red bass and the brown one. though, that tannish one is pretty interesting, the color is different from most guitars I see with that sort of color, I actually like that one too in an odd way . . .

[Patrick-Ruff]

well just a litlte update, I've been doing a lot of fretting hand and slight picking exercises with the E dorian scale and it's quite fun. I feel like I've gained a lot of speed from this.

Bezmotivnic, it seems the antibiotics they gave me have been working. my ear is barely draining and it seems that I'm actually starting to faintly get my hearing back.

I have a general question though, I'm looking to buy an effects pedal in the near future and I want to get one that's not too expensive but offers a WIDE WIDE range of sound. any suggestions off hand? I was looking at this DigiTech effects pedal that had an expression pedal built in (could someone explain how that can be used on a digital pedal, as well?)

[Kzin]

I completely agree. I can't imagine composing stuff without DFH/EZD now.. It just makes laying everything out so easy.

Love the avatar, McGirk.

[matthew]

Will there finally be a Fender "Broadcaster" again -- after fifty-eight years?
That would be cool. I recall there being a Custom Shop No-caster reissue a few years back. I have no idea whether it is still available. Good pics here. (http://www.vintage-guitars.se/2005_Fender_1951_Nocaster_Relic_R4235.htm)

and I actually played one of the pine Esquire prototype copies Fender came out with in the late 90s.
http://www.virtualvintageguitars.com/fender/fender0001_01.gif

[Patrick-Ruff]

SO! new page . . . update from me.

my ear infection is almost completely gone, probably another week of antibiotics and I'll be good.

my intense practice with my fretting hand has heeded very good results, I'm beginning to think I can shred like the pro's :).

AND, I'm borrowing this (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/DigiTech-Jimi-Hendrix-Experience-Pedal?sku=150839) pedal from a friend :D

I mainly use it for the wah and overdrive/distortion. it sounds way better than the effects built into my amp and it's not as noisy :)

[herbster]

Patrick that's really good news! Glad for you man, I myself just gettin' over the flu and am making headway with some arrangements I've been stumped on, and I'm starting to pull barre chords off rather consistently now.

Hurray for progress :D

[Bezmotivnik]

I actually played one of the pine Esquire prototype copies Fender came out with in the late 90s.
Did it have a trussrod? :)

Leo was convinced that he could make a perfectly good guitar without one, but they warped like crazy and Don Randall was at his wit's end trying to deal with all the problems in the field and trying to get Leo to admit he was wrong, which was almost impossible, ever.

What a bunch of eccentric characters made up the old Fender company!

Speaking of Fenders, I ordered one of these tonight, upon glowing recommendations:

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/8/4/3/548843.jpg

It's a GDO-500SE Orchestra. The orchestra body is smaller than the dreadnought and has a more even tone throughout the range, unlike the dreadnought's booming, hyped lows and low-mids. It's generally regarded as a more controlled body style for recording, especially single-note and finger-picking. It's identical to the GDO-500S, but has the Fender/ Fishman Classic 4T electrics and tuner added.

It has top-grade solid woods, a fine-grain cedar top and ovangkol back & sides. Cedar is very often used for topwood in quality classical guitars and sometimes for these other smaller-bodied guitars. It has a bit different response than spruce.

Wood quality is supposedly excellent on these and construction is first-rate. This had a Fender catalog price of nearly $950, despite being made in China. While initially skeptical, I have seen some really stunning Chinese acoustics in the past year or so, and if the quality materials are there (as they supposedly are with this 500 line), this should be a fine box. I've heard nothing but owner raves for this series of Fenders. MF is closing them out, and I had some compensatory discounts that were expiring on the 29th, so I went for it.

I'll report back when it gets here.

[Bezmotivnik]

my ear infection is almost completely gone, probably another week of antibiotics and I'll be good.

Good news! I hope your hearing returns to normal after healing.

[Bezmotivnik]

I used to be a guitarist, but now I'm more of a bassist. Also half deaf it seems too.
Wait, did I post that somehow?

Sounds familiar.

[matthew]

Did it have a trussrod? :)LOL. I'm pretty sure it did.

[diwas]

Guys...i want to ask you a MIDI question.
I was kinda boored with the usual sound of XP...the booring MIDI sound while playing guitar pro. But when i listened to ubuntu's MIDI it was awesome!!
So i want to ask you that is there any way to change the MIDI sound of XP? I mean like the kool sounds of Ubuntu?
Plz reply...
Thank you.

[Patrick-Ruff]

heh, nice to see that you seem to be more open about your communications and location bezmotivnic ;). (no I'm not implying anything.)

that acoustic looks nice. I finally found a picture of my classical guitar, that used to have steel strings, first guitar I ever had. a Burswood Esteban Classical (http://profile.ultimate-guitar.com/profile_mojo_data/5/5/3/7/553744/pics/_c221009_image_0.JPG).

[diwas]

??? No reply??? please guys....

[NoSmokingBandit]

I used to have a plugin that would make recording sound like old records. It would put in pops and static and hum and all that jazz. Now i cant find it. I know it was free, but i cant think of the name of it. Any ideas?

[shen-an-doah]

I used to have a plugin that would make recording sound like old records. It would put in pops and static and hum and all that jazz. Now i cant find it. I know it was free, but i cant think of the name of it. Any ideas?

There's a VST plug-in in Cubasis 4 that does that. It's called the grungeliser. Dunno if that helps...

[Bezmotivnik]

??? No reply??? please guys....
I'm not ignoring you, I honestly don't know what you're talking about.

A different WAVtable or what? :confused:

[Bezmotivnik]

heh, nice to see that you seem to be more open about your communications and location bezmotivnic ;). (no I'm not implying anything.)
I just re-upped my profile; most of that was previously there at some point or another. I've never actually used three of the four IMs. :rolleyes:

[diwas]

Well simple...the MIDI sound of XP and the MIDI sound of ubuntu(timidity) is vast different even though the sound card is same for both. The sound in ubuntu is awesome...So i wud like to know if i can change the sound in XP too so that the instrument sounds good.

[herbster]

How often should one change strings? I've been playing for about 3 months now, for maybe an average of 30-60 mins/day. Are there signs to look for? Is it just personal preference? Also, how difficult is it to change them?

[matthew]

How often should one change strings? I've been playing for about 3 months now, for maybe an average of 30-60 mins/day. Are there signs to look for? Is it just personal preference? Also, how difficult is it to change them?Strings are not hard to change, but it takes a time or two before the process doesn't seem so daunting. When to change them depends a lot on personal preference. I'll give you mine, and perhaps others will chime in.

I change all of my strings when:
- I break one, because the others generally are not far behind, unless I'm in the middle of a gig, in which case I just fix the broken one quickly and then change them all afterward
- they start to sound dull to my ears. Usually at this point they are also dirty, with bits of black finger grease and stuff caked on them.
- I want to or need to do work on the guitar, setting the intonation, etc.

Totally off this topic, I made a post on my blog that you guys here might enjoy. Feel free to ignore my spam if it doesn't interest you. http://matthewhelmke.net/index.php/2008/03/04/42-musician-jokes

[herbster]

Thanks Matthew. Is there anything close to an "average" of time between full 6 string changes for you? I think mine sound okay still. How long would be "too long" with the same strings, if such a thing exists?

And great jokes, some of those made me lol :D

[matthew]

Thanks Matthew. Is there anything close to an "average" of time between full 6 string changes for you? I think mine sound okay still. How long would be "too long" with the same strings, if such a thing exists?

And great jokes, some of those made me lol :DGlad you liked the jokes. :)

It really depends on how much I am playing. These days, with three young kids, I'm home a lot more and I don't get to play as much. A set of strings might last 3 to 6 months on most of my guitars, and longer on some. Back when I played publicly three times a week, in addition to a couple of hours of practice each day, I sometimes changed strings on my main guitar as often as once every week. I had a habit of breaking strings during a gig if I didn't do that. I have since learned to play with a softer touch after once breaking three strings in one song. Really. I did that. It was bad.

Also added in the mix is your personal body chemistry. I knew one guy whose strings never tarnished at all, never. After six months of regular play, they still looked new! I knew another guy with really corrosive sweat that could play strings for an hour and wear the nickel plating off.

If they still sound good to you, and they are staying in tune and aren't all gunked up, it's okay to leave them.

[Bezmotivnik]

Also added in the mix is your personal body chemistry. I knew one guy whose strings never tarnished at all, never. After six months of regular play, they still looked new! I knew another guy with really corrosive sweat that could play strings for an hour and wear the nickel plating off.
Normally, I'd be skeptical of these claims, but I've seen similar things happen...I'm still not quite sure of the specific chemical reasons.

The late Rory Gallagher was a notoriously destructive schvitzer.

If they still sound good to you, and they are staying in tune and aren't all gunked up, it's okay to leave them.

My experience is that acoustic strings (most notably) go dead if they're never even played. I'll string up a guitar, put it in the case come back in a few months and the strings are as dead as if they're forty years old. This is really depressing. :(

Electrics do the same, but it's not so noticeable to me.

Clapton used to say in the '70s he changed strings "when they broke," but modern strings almost never do, and they certainly go dead before that. It seems like you could wear out a set of frets before a string would break with modern metallurgy and I don't think this is a good thing, as frets are far more expensive than strings...and modern strings do accelerate fret wear.

I'd say strings go dead in a couple of weeks, no matter what, but most of us just live with it. Jamerson is said to have used the same set of flats on his bass for twenty or thirty years. I don't doubt it. My 9050-series flatwounds sound decades old in about three weeks, but never sound appreciably worse thereafter. I think winding shift does affect intonation, however.

If you're doing an important recording, use new strings. Other than that, just live with it, I guess. [shrug]

I have a great many guitars and basses (somewhere between forty and fifty) and have played since 1960, but I have never reached the point where changing strings wasn't a time-consuming nuisance I hated.

[Bezmotivnik]

Well simple...the MIDI sound of XP and the MIDI sound of ubuntu(timidity) is vast different even though the sound card is same for both.

:confused:

I may be missing something here, but as far as I know, MIDI has no sound. It's merely interface control data running a softsynth or WAVtable on the computer. They contain the sound; MIDI just tells them what to do.

I'm unfamiliar with your application, so I can't help, but it sounds to me like you're referring to a native WAVtable in Ubuntu or XP (I'm guessing here), not MIDI.

[Patrick-Ruff]

I usually change strings when they lose their sound or they become hard/impossible to slide on. but normally, my playing style and my technique just doesn't really break strings often at all. I shred, play blues, strum fast, do whatever, and I never break strings while playing. the only time I've ever broken a string was on my friends guitar when I accidently tuned his high e up instead of tuning it down and THEN up.

but those were super-old strings anyways.

[mediax]

In my bad old Microsoft days, I used to have a terrific little utility that would either show you various finger positions for a selected chord or allow you to enter finger positions on a fretboard and tell you what chord they made. Needless to say, I've forgotten what it was called :lolflag:, but is anyone aware of anything similar for Ubuntu?

In return, I'll share the best advice that I have received about learning guitar - buy a guitar stand.

It's my third attempt at the guitar (nylon, steel-strung and electric, in that order), and being able to pick up the guitar and play for ten minutes (rather than spend ten minutes unpacked and tuning it, then another five minutes packing it away) has made a real difference to my progress.

[matthew]

In my bad old Microsoft days, I used to have a terrific little utility that would either show you various finger positions for a selected chord or allow you to enter finger positions on a fretboard and tell you what chord they made. Needless to say, I've forgotten what it was called, but is anyone aware of anything similar for Ubuntu?
kGuitar, which is in the repositories, has a feature called "chord constructor," which will do this exact thing.

[ojacquem]

Hi mediax,

Try searching for the "guitar" keyword in the installable packages (synaptic).
You can also do it from the packages web site (http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?suite=default&section=all&arch=any&searchon=names&keywords=guitar).

I personally tried tuxguitar which worked quite well.

_Olivier_

[Bezmotivnik]

I'll beat Matthew to the punch on this one and suggest that when using these helpful learning tools, you stop for a minute and consider why this chord is a Cm6 or D9 or whatever before moving on with your playing.

Eventually you can begin to figure out the chords on your own.

[matthew]

I'll beat Matthew to the punch on this one and suggest that when using these helpful learning tools, you stop for a minute and consider why this chord is a Cm6 or D9 or whatever before moving on with your playing.

Eventually you can begin to figure out the chords on your own.I agree. That is good advice.

[diwas]

Hmm MIDI just controls data runnin. So the sound difference of same instrumensts on two OS is due to WAVtable or softsynth. It makes the data audible isnt it? So i need to change the software which converts MIDI data flow to audible in order to make my instruments sound differently isnt it?? So is there anyway for that?


Guys i think i have realized the necessity of learnin the theory rather than depending completely upon my ears. So i wud like to request u all to refer me a e-book (free ones are welcomed) which wud gimme a good concept abt chord formations(that is the theory) and scale formation...all in one...i wud like to have a complete overview of guitar in theory.

[Bezmotivnik]

I'll share the best advice that I have received about learning guitar - buy a guitar stand...being able to pick up the guitar and play for ten minutes (rather than spend ten minutes unpacked and tuning it, then another five minutes packing it away) has made a real difference to my progress.
Yes, this is absolutely true. I bought a few cases on sale recently and the guitars that went into them vanished from the cosmos.

I keep guitars and basses all over the house (with the exceptions of the kitchen and the bathroom) in stands so they're instantly available if I feel inspired.

[Bezmotivnik]

So the sound difference of same instrumensts on two OS is due to WAVtable or softsynth.
If the instrument is a MIDI controller or functioning as one, yes. Sounds ("voices") do not travel from the MIDI instrument to the computer via MIDI, but reside in the computer or other outboard device and are controlled by the MIDI data transmitted by the MIDI instrument, just like programs are operated by your keyboard. The programs aren't in the keyboard.

I'm still very confused about what you're asking and suspect you are as well. :confused:

There is another situation in which an external device is sharing MIDI info with the computer, say for beat sequencing, but has a separate digital audio output sending actual digital audio signal to the computer's sound card, but this doesn't sound as though it applies to your question either.

[herbster]

Yes, this is absolutely true. I bought a few cases on sale recently and the guitars that went into them vanished from the cosmos.

I keep guitars and basses all over the house (with the exceptions of the kitchen and the bathroom) in stands so they're instantly available if I feel inspired.

Big time!! I always leave my guitar on the stand, sits between my bed and my desk, I just grab it constantly when I have a few minutes here and there. I don't even have a case, just a gigbag and it only ever gets touched when I'm staying at a friends' place for some time.

Just grabbing it and playing, doing scales, chords, etc. all the time has really helped me. It's much more motivating to act on your energy to play when it's easily available right there than to have to go through the process of unpacking, etc. as stated.

[shen-an-doah]

Basically he's saying the default softsynth in Ubuntu (which makes sound if you're using something like Kguitar or tuxguitar) sounds better than the one in XP and he wants to know if there's a way to change the one used in XP.

[Bezmotivnik]

Big time!!
You can tell I'm not married. \\:D/

I never cease to be amazed at how many posts I've encountered from guys whose wives have refused to let them have their guitars or amps in view if not immediately in use.

One guy I remember was looking to get one of the exotic wood Blues Juniors for some ridiculous amount of money because he thought his wife might tolerate it in the bedroom or living room if it looked more like furniture than an amp. She refused to let him have an amp with Tolex, tweed or Ozite covering.

I asked him why he couldn't just put it in the closet when he wasn't using it and he said that the closets were already all full of her stuff.

I'm not making this up. That's a small amp.

Disgusting. Not funny. [-(

[Bezmotivnik]

Basically he's saying the default softsynth in Ubuntu (which makes sound if you're using something like Kguitar or tuxguitar) sounds better than the one in XP and he wants to know if there's a way to change the one used in XP.

That's what I thought. I dunno, but I think there are probably more useful forums here for that type of tech info. I have no idea how you'd go about that.

[matthew]

You can tell I'm not married. \\:D/

I never cease to be amazed at how many posts I've encountered from guys whose wives have refused to let them have their guitars or amps in view if not immediately in use.
I am blessed to have a wife that let me put my 2x10 combo in the living room, along with a multiguitar rack filled with an acoustic, an electric (sometimes two) and a bass. That is rare, and appreciated.

The story about the guy and the Blues Jr.; That's just wrong.

[Bezmotivnik]

The story about the guy and the Blues Jr.; That's just wrong.
It's not much worse than many I've read on gear fora.

What's happened to this world? :confused:

I can't imagine this level of domestic female tyranny or male passivity. My ex-wife was bad enough, but I would have literally thrown her out of the house if she'd pulled nonsense like that.

I'm a musician. I have gear. If it bothers you, you can leave now.

[Adapted from my Firearms Short-Course For Female Sleepovers]

[diwas]

Yes, exactly what iam saying. Shen-an-doah, thank you so much. So is there anyway of doin that in XP, ie installing softsynth as a replacement for what is in XP??

[Bezmotivnik]

So is there anyway of doin that in XP, ie installing softsynth as a replacement for what is in XP??
I'm thinking no.

I was just looking at my Control Panel>Sounds and Audio Devices>MIDI Music Playback>Default Device and it's a "Microsoft GS Wavetable SW Synth," which doesn't sound to me like something that can easily be swapped out to a Linux program.

You might try the media forums. :confused:

[Bezmotivnik]

I am blessed to have a wife that let me put my 2x10 combo in the living room...

Um, OK...but why does she make your avatar wear a burqa? :confused:

[herbster]

It's a ninja :)

[matthew]

Um, OK...but why does she make your avatar wear a burqa? :confused:It's the official Ubuntu Forums salute to ninjas...just having some silly fun.

[Bezmotivnik]

That Fender acoustic came today. It's back in the box and will go back tomorrow.

Though my guess is that this one is entirely representative, I will give Fender the benefit of the doubt and say this one could be a lemon, as evinced by the obvious fact that it's been sold and returned at least once, possibly three times. It was filthy, covered with dust and dirt, had the accessory bags ripped open and emptied and at least five kinds of tape had been used to repeatedly reseal the box.

I'm really getting tired of MF sending me used gear. :mad:

Aside from that, this thing is simply junk, a $129.95 drugstore guitar.

There are four large to very large (2"+), dark grain blemishes that look almost like cigarette burns in the natural topwood, which is of a much lower grade than the illustrated example, the binding is put on so badly that they've had to fill an uneven gap between the side and binding with mismatching putty all the way around the top, there are large blemishes all over the neck under the finish, the label on the piezo controls is on grossly crooked, etc., etc. Just really nasty, cheap work.

Fretwork is very strange.

The machines aren't Grovers (as claimed), but generic Chinese sealed units as used on Squiers. The case isn't the Fender molded case, but one of those $29 Chinese jobs -- really rough, with lumps and debris under the vinyl, lifting edges, etc.

Sound was thin, with some very noticeable dead spots in the G and B strings.

I've seen some very nice Chinese acoustics, but this one looks like it was built by people with no clue.

I am very, very disappointed with this POS and am shocked that Fender had an MSRP of nearly $950 on it.

[shen-an-doah]

Just been looking into rewiring my guitar. Should cost me just over £20 for the parts, most of that being for the shielded wire as it only comes in 100m rolls (might end up rewiring all my guitars if I'm buying that much...).

I'm planning to use this set-up:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/shen-an-doah/wiring.png

I'm using 100K pots with a 47nf capacitor on the tone control (I might modify the tone pot like this (http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/pots.htm)). The switch witll be a normal on/off switch (like this (http://www.rapidonline.com/Electronic-Components/Switches/Toggle-Switches/Standard-toggle-switches/30255)) rather than a three-way switch that just connects to nothing (as I disconnect the bridge pick-up anyway). The two diodes create a built-in overdrive (http://www.projectguitar.com/tut/blackice.htm).

Any thoughts?

[herbster]

Any thoughts?

Yes-- that soon enough I'll have a clue what any of that means ;) :D

[shen-an-doah]

Yes-- that soon enough I'll have a clue what any of that means ;) :D

Haha.

www.projectguitar.com is a great resource of tutorials and info on doing pretty much anything you could want to do when it comes to working on guitars.

www.stewmac.com is great for parts and has some useful info too.

[rxex]

Anyone try songwrite, or any other tab program... I use songwrite, but I think it really sucks.. I am not as they say "classically trained" and I have a lot of trouble figuring out which note lengths to use, i.e. quarter, half, whole, etc. Any suggestions software-wise as far as writing / recording guitar tracks?
--ross

[Northsider]

Just been looking into rewiring my guitar. Should cost me just over £20 for the parts, most of that being for the shielded wire as it only comes in 100m rolls (might end up rewiring all my guitars if I'm buying that much...).

I'm planning to use this set-up:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v191/shen-an-doah/wiring.png

Any thoughts?

lol. I have wired and re-wired my guitars plenty of times. I still have no idea what that means...:guitar:

[shen-an-doah]

lol. I have wired and re-wired my guitars plenty of times. I still have no idea what that means...:guitar:

Probably doesn't help that I've mixed in proper electronics shorthand symbols with their simplified ones.

Basically, it's like the wiring on a Les Paul or SG, with a 3-way switch and separate volume and tone controls. Then what I've done is remove anything to do with the neck pick-up and add another tone control in parallel with the original, but instead of the usual capacitor, there's two diodes in parallel. This means that instead of bleeding off treble, that pot will change the level of the built-in distortion.

[Northsider]

Then what I've done is remove anything to do with the neck pick-up and add another tone control
Ahh, now that I understand! :-]

I did the same thing to my Cort V (imitation epiphone flying V). I put a Screamin Deamon humbucker in there and ripped out the neck pickup.

[shen-an-doah]

I have left the neck pick-up there though, mainly so I don't have a big hole in my guitar...

[Belliinator]

I don't get the wiring either

Have any of you heard of the brand Deville? Its cheap and its my guitar. One of these days Im going to buy a new one.

Im interested in a les paul. What floorboards are sound good and dont cost the earth?

[Bezmotivnik]

instead of the usual capacitor, there's two diodes in parallel. This means that instead of bleeding off treble, that pot will change the level of the built-in distortion.

Any thoughts?
Will that work in a passive low-VAC circuit? :confused: I'll reserve comment on this until you've done it.

As far as the tone pot mod you asked about, I've never personally felt it was worth the effort, as you stand a good chance of messing up the unit by damaging the wiper/wafer contact if you start screwing around with opening it up. I have the usual Fender factory switchout tone controls they've been putting in American Fenders since the '90s (and giving fancy names) that do the same thing with a switch, and (like most players) can tell no audible difference when A/Bing, though I know that the physics are at least valid for the mod.

I'm pretty conservative about passive guitar controls. I just see them as things that eventually create scratchy noises, which they do, and somewhat degrade the native tone of the instrument by being in the signal path. I'd probably be happy with a killswitch. :rolleyes:

Well, true mechanical bypass, anyway...:)

Though on economic principle ("User modifications devalue the instrument to knowledgeable subsequent buyers") I do not normally mod instruments, one nondestructive wiring mod I tried experimentally with clips and found to be actually useful [!] was the one where a cap and resistor in parallel are added to the volume pot circuit in order to compensate for the tone muddying that happens when you turn it down. It actually works, though changes the perceived volume rolloff rate quite a bit.

[shen-an-doah]

Will that work in a passive low-VAC circuit? :confused:

Yep. I've already done it on a couple of guitars and it sounds great. Tis proper overdrive too, as the level depends on how hard you hit the strings...

If you click the Fay Wray link in my sig and listen to "Dirge" you'll hear how my SG sounds with it on.

[Bezmotivnik]

Yep. I've already done it on a couple of guitars and it sounds great. Tis proper overdrive too, as the level depends on how hard you hit the strings..
Does it reduce output? Given the voltage reduction produced by inline diodes in passive circuits, it seems like it would have to to me, though with typical high-output lead pickups you have quite a bit to spare. :-k

[note other comments that crossed in the mail during editing of previous message]

[Northsider]

I have left the neck pick-up there though, mainly so I don't have a big hole in my guitar...

lol, I just have a gaping hole in mine. :)

[shen-an-doah]

Does it reduce output? Given the voltage reduction produced by inline diodes in passive circuits, it seems like it would have to to me, though with typical high-output lead pickups you have quite a bit to spare. :-k

I've never noticed any, but then my pick-up is pretty high output.

As far as the tone pot mod you asked about, I've never personally felt it was worth the effort, as you stand a good chance of messing up the unit by damaging the wiper/wafer contact if you start screwing around with opening it up. I have the usual Fender factory switchout tone controls they've been putting in American Fenders since the '90s (and giving fancy names) that do the same thing with a switch, and (like most players) can tell no audible difference when A/Bing, though I know that the physics are at least valid for the mod.

I'm pretty conservative about passive guitar controls. I just see them as things that eventually create scratchy noises, which they do, and somewhat degrade the native tone of the instrument by being in the signal path. I'd probably be happy with a killswitch.

Well, true mechanical bypass, anyway...

Though on economic principle ("User modifications devalue the instrument to knowledgeable subsequent buyers") I do not normally mod instruments, one nondestructive wiring mod I tried experimentally with clips and found to be actually useful [!] was the one where a cap and resistor in parallel are added to the volume pot circuit in order to compensate for the tone muddying that happens when you turn it down. It actually works, though changes the perceived volume rolloff rate quite a bit.

Yeh, I had the idea earlier of just using a switch, seeing as I have a 4th hole to fill anyway.

As for modifications, my guitar wasn't exactly expensive in the first place (£150), so I don't really mind if any mods devalue it. Really I just care about making it a better guitar for me. I've pretty much replaced everything on the guitar except the body and neck, so the wiring is pretty much the only thing left that is still kinda cheap.

[Bezmotivnik]

Followup:
That Fender acoustic came today. It's back in the box and will go back tomorrow.
It went back at 0915 yesterday, after my "frank and open exchange" with MF about this piece.
I will give Fender the benefit of the doubt and say this one could be a lemon, as evinced by the obvious fact that it's been sold and returned at least once, possibly three times.
1: I was a lemon
2: Close inspection revealed that it had been returned by previous buyers not once, but at least twice and possibly more.
3: This model has problems that go beyond the execution of this individual example, however.
There are four large to very large (2"+), dark grain blemishes that look almost like cigarette burns in the natural topwood
This was really getting me curious, so I inspected the top again under high magnification.

Are you ready? It was unmistakably MILDEW! :shock:

The wood actually had mold in the wood grain over much of the top, enough to make several noticeable dark spots.

This is not uncommon in poorly-stored or water-damaged guitars, but it's certainly not what you want to see in a new unit!

Never mind that it was under a much thicker polyurethane layer than should be seen on a quality instrument.
I am very, very disappointed with this POS and am shocked that Fender had an MSRP of nearly $950 on it.
There are numerous serious problems with the way this particular model is built and it appears that MF is spiking all user feedback/ratings on it (though they do massage this process to reflect higher user satisfaction than actually exists).

This is why I did not request an exchange, but a refund.

To make a clear point, there recently are very nicely built Chinese acoustics. I have seen them and own one. A Chinese-built acoustic with an MSRP approaching $1000 ought to be a superb, professional grade instrument fully equivalent to an American "name" instrument in the $2500-$3000 range, at least.

This is not one of them. It is a poor value even at its blowout sale price, an incompetently executed instrument with poor production design.

Shame on the maker, shame on FMIC and shame on MF! [-X

[fissionmailed]

I will never deal with Musician's Fiend with instruments again after my experience with them with my order for a Les Paul.
I ordered a Classic Plus in Vintage Burst, they didn't have any in stock, I was ok with that. I was more than willing to wait. It back order again and again, I was fine, I was willing to wait. Then I got a phone call saying it had come in and they were shipping it. I was happy to say the least. So it finally got here and it was a LEs Paul Classic, not a Classic Plus. ugh. So after telling them they sent the wrong guitar to me and them saying I was wrong, I finally sent it back. And they refunded me for a Classic. So after that was straighten out, I swear I'd never buy anything over 20 dollars from them and it had to be in stock.
Of course I decided to go to my local guitar shop and buy a 57 reissue Black Beauty. :D Partly to spite MF. Plus it played like a dddrrreeeaaaaammm. In the end I coughed up some more doe, but I was and am happy as a clam. After 6 years I still love my Les Paul.
Of course, my main fix is bass now, nothing like bi-amping with a tube amp and good hybrid. :D

[herbster]

Which kind of style do you guys play, fingerstyle or with a flatpick? I haven't been using a pick at all, have been growing my nails a bit on the right hand and really loving fingerstyle, I am confident it's kind of "who I am" with the guitar. But I'm just wondering if there's anything such as one needing to play electric with a pick and acoustic is okay without, or is that just silliness that I thought I'd ask nevertheless... :D

[matthew]

Which kind of style do you guys play, fingerstyle or with a flatpick? I haven't been using a pick at all, have been growing my nails a bit on the right hand and really loving fingerstyle, I am confident it's kind of "who I am" with the guitar. But I'm just wondering if there's anything such as one needing to play electric with a pick and acoustic is okay without, or is that just silliness that I thought I'd ask nevertheless... :DYou can play the guitar any way you like, regardless of whether it is an electric or an acoustic. Fingerstyle with the fleshy parts, fingerstyle using nails, fingerstyle with fingerpicks, or just a thumbpick, flatpicking, and more are all acceptable.

A lot of it depends on your personal taste and preference, and sometimes on what you are trying to play.

I can play some fingerstyle, but I prefer playing with a flatpick.

[Warprunner]

Of course I decided to go to my local guitar shop and buy a 57 reissue Black Beauty. :D Partly to spite MF. Plus it played like a dddrrreeeaaaaammm. In the end I coughed up some more doe, but I was and am happy as a clam. After 6 years I still love my Les Paul.
Of course, my main fix is bass now, nothing like bi-amping with a tube amp and good hybrid. :D

Played now for 40 years this year! What you should of found out that you really can't buy a guitar mail order. I mean, you should always try it out first. At least that will stop the hassle of shipping one back.

About 10 years ago I bought a Gibson Firebird. I wanted a Strat but they didn't really feel right in my small hands. So I actually went in to get another Les Paul. After trying evey one they had the sales man wanted to know what the problem was. After he looked at my hands he immediately brought me a Firebird. I was enthused as I knew Johnny Winter used to play one. Let me tell you it fit like a glove and my speed actually doubled along with accuracy. The only problem....top heavy. The head kept dipping down and I had to find a strap that would stop that.

All told I went through about 50 guitars that day and found the one that fit so very perfect. I shudder to think what mail-order problems I would have had. I think you might have been given a great lesson from MF by them screwing you up. You really need to try before you buy. Also...let them do a professional set up on it too. "Out of the box" is good....but try one that hasn't been set versus one that has!

:guitar:

[herbster]

You can play the guitar any way you like, regardless of whether it is an electric or an acoustic. Fingerstyle with the fleshy parts, fingerstyle using nails, fingerstyle with fingerpicks, or just a thumbpick, flatpicking, and more are all acceptable.

A lot of it depends on your personal taste and preference, and sometimes on what you are trying to play.

I can play some fingerstyle, but I prefer playing with a flatpick.

Gotcha. I was playing fingerstyle with fleshy tip of fingers for a while, now have come to play with the nails more, unintentionally really, just kind of transitioned into it over the course of practice.

One thing is that without a pick, the thumb hitting the EAD strings is a lot more bassy (is that a word?) than with the pick.

[fissionmailed]

Played now for 40 years this year! What you should of found out that you really can't buy a guitar mail order. I mean, you should always try it out first. At least that will stop the hassle of shipping one back.

About 10 years ago I bought a Gibson Firebird. I wanted a Strat but they didn't really feel right in my small hands. So I actually went in to get another Les Paul. After trying evey one they had the sales man wanted to know what the problem was. After he looked at my hands he immediately brought me a Firebird. I was enthused as I knew Johnny Winter used to play one. Let me tell you it fit like a glove and my speed actually doubled along with accuracy. The only problem....top heavy. The head kept dipping down and I had to find a strap that would stop that.

All told I went through about 50 guitars that day and found the one that fit so very perfect. I shudder to think what mail-order problems I would have had. I think you might have been given a great lesson from MF by them screwing you up. You really need to try before you buy. Also...let them do a professional set up on it too. "Out of the box" is good....but try one that hasn't been set versus one that has!

:guitar:


Hahaha, trust me, I learned that soon afterwards, save for beater basses and guitars.

I've learned to set up my own guitars and basses. If you don't, you'll end up with a lot less money in your wallet by the end of the day. Plus most of the time the people setting up your guitar never ask you how YOU like it, they just set it up. Plus you can tweak every week or so, so it doesn't get ever really need a "set up," or so it constantly plays better. I'll quit rambling now.

Oddly enough, I've never played a Firebird. I DO like those mini humbuckers though, The tone Pete Townshend got out of a Les Paul with those through Hiwatts was really good. I can't help but think that a Firebird wouldn't be too far from that.

[herbster]

What do you mean "set up" ?

[fissionmailed]

What do you mean "set up" ?

Adjusting the action, the pick ups, the truss rod, cleaning it up etc.

[Warprunner]

Oddly enough, I've never played a Firebird. I DO like those mini humbuckers though, The tone Pete Townshend got out of a Les Paul with those through Hiwatts was really good. I can't help but think that a Firebird wouldn't be too far from that.

Naw not rambling... Yeah...The Who had awesome sound directly from Townsend, your right. Love the fatter or thicked sound of Gibsons.

If you get the chance...go try a Firebird for sh*ts and giggles. It is worth it at least once. LONG neck and great for lead work.

(ForHerbster asking what a setup is... Strings to the neck and adjustment of the neck. Pitch and harmonics and a huge amount of things. But listen to fissionmailed in his post.If you can learn to do it yourself ...you'll save a bundle. Plus he does what I know I should...tweak once a week or so.

[Patrick-Ruff]

I'm really set on flat picking myself, I recall the only time I ever doubted I wanted to flat pick was when my picking hand gave me trouble and made me feel hopeless.

[Bezmotivnik]

Played now for 40 years this year! What you should of found out that you really can't buy a guitar mail order. I mean, you should always try it out first. At least that will stop the hassle of shipping one back.
That's true to some extent, but not an absolute.

Instruments, particularly electrics, have mostly lost their unique qualities since robotics, semi-automated production and largely unskilled assembly have taken over. Body and neck blank contours, for example, are within a few thousandths of an inch throughout a production run thanks to CNT machines. Tadeo Gomez is no longer shaping Stratocaster bodies and necks freehand.

Any new "American Standard" Stratocaster, say, will have the identical neck profile whether you buy it locally or over the net, and will otherwise be as identical to every other one as modern, computer-controlled production can make it. Any variation (and there will be some) is merely a lapse in QC.

If you try locally but buy online, you usually come out money ahead if you are technically capable of doing your own setup and detail work and have a good working understanding of what makes a good or bad example of a guitar. These are big "ifs."

If I order online and get a bad axe -- something I cannot quickly repair on the bench -- it goes back not only at the seller's expense, but generally with some additional compensation for my trouble. MF is very good about this, at least with me.

[A previous post on how I buy.] (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=1802066&postcount=334)

My background:

I've been playing since 1960 and since 1967 have bought, sold, traded, repaired and set up new, used and vintage instruments purely for profit. For many years I did this full-time as my sole source of income. I'm far more of a gear pro than a player (it paid better;)), so that influences my advice and priorities. As a gear pro, I have no emotional attachment to guitars and try to eliminate the subjective in favor of the objective in my advice and appraisals -- which unfortunately regularly upsets buffs, hobbyists and fanboys.

Though I'm retired from the commercial rat race, currently have somewhere between forty and fifty guitars and basses; I can't keep a good count any more, or can't be bothered, or something.

[Bezmotivnik]

I've learned to set up my own guitars and basses. If you don't, you'll end up with a lot less money in your wallet by the end of the day. Plus most of the time the people setting up your guitar never ask you how YOU like it, they just set it up.
My problem with that is that not only is it an expense and inconvenience, but the large majority of self-ordained "guitar techs" have little idea what they are doing and frequently damage or degrade your instrument. I don't think one in ten even know how to properly adjust neck relief to minimize wear and prevent damage to the trussrod.
[-(

[fissionmailed]

Naw not rambling... Yeah...The Who had awesome sound directly from Townsend, your right. Love the fatter or thicked sound of Gibsons.

If you get the chance...go try a Firebird for sh*ts and giggles. It is worth it at least once. LONG neck and great for lead work.


Yup, on the live version of Won't Get Fooled Again the guitar tone is to die for IMO.

I will have to, I really need to visit a good music store soon, sadly having no car puts a damped on that.

My problem with that is that not only is it an expense and inconvenience, but the large majority of self-ordained "guitar techs" have little idea what they are doing and frequently damage or degrade your instrument. I don't think one in ten even know how to properly adjust neck relief to minimize wear and prevent damage to the trussrod.
[-(

Hahaha yup, I've heard some real horror stories from people. Stripping truss rods, messing up putting strings on (which I'm VERY picky about), and just about every thing else in between. On the other side, a person who really knows what they're doing can work wonders.

[Bezmotivnik]

On the other side, a person who really knows what they're doing can work wonders.
For a while, anyway. Good techs -- the very few of them around -- quickly fall into a decaying orbit. I wrote about this earlier. (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=2587597&postcount=1128)

[Warprunner]

Simply a great post Bezmotivnik!! I am in agreement with you. Forgive me for still being locked into old habits of the 60-70's/
I conceed that "today" try at a music store, then buy online would probably be the way to go.

[Patrick-Ruff]

heh, nice quote warprunner :).

[Warprunner]

heh, nice quote warprunner :).

Thanks!!! IT is true too!! hahahahahaha Feel free to steal it! :lolflag:

[Patrick-Ruff]

more like it /was/ true ;). freud was basically the founder of psychology, it's grown a lot since then.

I found some great tools on musictheory.net, REALLY good theory lessons, and it even has a little tool to help you memorize notes on the neck, and notes on the staff :).

[diwas]

Guys name ur best solo with artist's name and song name!!

[shen-an-doah]

I've just come home for a week and my mum got me some socks that say "Trust me, I'm a musician" :D

They're from this shop (http://www.facethemusic-newforest.co.uk/).

[herbster]

Oh my, the musictheory.net is fantastic!! Great link Patrick, I am loving the site! :)

Hmm, best solo is super tough but off the top I'd say Page's solo in Stairway. I can never get enough of it, and it's so perfect with the song.

[Patrick-Ruff]

best solo? common now, that's impossible to say. I can list several that I'm very very fond of.

first

Eruption - Van Halen
Godzilla - Blue Oyster Cult (the many solo's in that song)
and probably many of the songs on megadeths new album United Abombinations. they have an insane guitarist now.

but really, I don't really pay much attention to solo's really, if I hear one I really like I learn how to play it, which is basically the ones you see above ;).

but for the most part, I'm most into making up my own solo's, the only reason I ever play anyone elses stuff is to build technique.

[Patrick-Ruff]

Oh my, the musictheory.net is fantastic!! Great link Patrick, I am loving the site! :)

Hmm, best solo is super tough but off the top I'd say Page's solo in Stairway. I can never get enough of it, and it's so perfect with the song.

yeah that solo's pretty challenging at first, once you get that down you know you have some skill ;)

[diwas]

Well for me its Another Day of Dream Theater and yeah Stairway is classic one.
But guys trust me...there is one more solo which i cannot get over with...its the Hollow Years (Live in Budokan Version). Just give it a try ppl...u wont regret the melody...

[herbster]

Yeah, I can do the very first measure of Page's Stairway solo, hehe. It's certainly one of my goals to master it, such a beautiful solo.

Diwas: I just watched Hollow Years live on Youtube. My head just about exploded. Wowzas! That was from another planet, for sure!!

[Patrick-Ruff]

yeah that song isn't too bad, I don't really play much dream theater stuff right now, hasn't interested me much yet.

oh the solo in the song Speak by Queensryche is really awesome.

[diwas]

Yeah...I praise John Petrucci...
Actually i havent heard any type of more melodious solo than this till now.

[Patrick-Ruff]

I've been digging a lot of red hot chili peppers guitar lately, what about you guys?

[diwas]

Hmm RHCP...they are fantastic. Though i dont like the vocals personally, the composition, lyrics , guitar and of course the BASS guitar is good...actually not only good they are more dan that...(hehe i ddnt get any words!!).

Do u listen to instrumental rock? Joe Satriani? Listen to Starry Nights of Joe. It has very nice feelings. Hmm talkin about him listen to The Extremist, Satch Boogie, The Power Of Cosmic 2000 Part 1, SMF and You Saved My Life. Give it a try!!

Anyways tell me did u guys like it?

[Patrick-Ruff]

of course I listen to JS. starry night is a badass song, joe satriani's instrumental music is amazing.

[herbster]

I was at the store today and played 6 electrics (didn't have much time). Man it was refreshing after these 4 months with the acoustic :)

They were all in the ~$500-600 range. I honestly can't feel/tell much of a difference between them, other than the looks. I know I must try them out and feel comfortable with one, but are there specifics I should pay attention to beyond this?

[Zimmer]

Hi Herbster! 6 guitars ..
Hear any difference? Did you use the same set up ? Were they ' of a type'? That 's to say, 'Did you try Strat's or Strat copies? Les Paul ? Rickenbaacker? Gretsch or Gibson Semis?
A telecaster? The defining part in my choice was the neck. I like the Strat style maple neck and the smaller width compared with the Les Paul Gibsons.

I bought a used, Strat copy(Ibanez ) for my daughter 18 years ago, had dodgy electrics (still has !) and everyone wants to play it... it is a gorgeous electric blue metallic colour..
for 120 quid (that's $240 dollars at the current rate.)

The pickups may sway others and how it sounds on a clean amp... but an electric is still (essentially) a plank with strings and pickups... so how well constructed and pretty is the plank that fits your fingers and your wallet ? How heavy is it? Straining your neck and back muscles to stay upright and play for an hour or so? Does that matter if it really is a very pretty guitar?.... Emotion plays a bigger part in our purchases than we might admit..

[satanic-yobbo]

Do u listen to instrumental rock? Joe Satriani? Listen to Starry Nights of Joe. It has very nice feelings. Hmm talkin about him listen to The Extremist, Satch Boogie, The Power Of Cosmic 2000 Part 1, SMF and You Saved My Life. Give it a try!!

Anyways tell me did u guys like it?[/QUOTE]

always with you..... mystical potato head groove thing,,and the classic joe anthem that everyone knows surfing with the alien just to name a few more awesome J.S. songs :)

[herbster]

Hi Herbster! 6 guitars ..
Hear any difference? Did you use the same set up ? Were they ' of a type'? That 's to say, 'Did you try Strat's or Strat copies? Les Paul ? Rickenbaacker? Gretsch or Gibson Semis?
A telecaster? The defining part in my choice was the neck. I like the Strat style maple neck and the smaller width compared with the Les Paul Gibsons.

I bought a used, Strat copy(Ibanez ) for my daughter 18 years ago, had dodgy electrics (still has !) and everyone wants to play it... it is a gorgeous electric blue metallic colour..
for 120 quid (that's $240 dollars at the current rate.)

The pickups may sway others and how it sounds on a clean amp... but an electric is still (essentially) a plank with strings and pickups... so how well constructed and pretty is the plank that fits your fingers and your wallet ? How heavy is it? Straining your neck and back muscles to stay upright and play for an hour or so? Does that matter if it really is a very pretty guitar?.... Emotion plays a bigger part in our purchases than we might admit..

Hey there Zimmer :) You know, it was quite a quick "drop-by" I just wanted to get in before an appointment, I am going back on the weekend and should spend at least an hour at the store. I honestly can't recall the names of them but I know one was a Squier (there's a deal for a guitar and amp for $500), one a Gibson and one a Les Paul. All I did was grab them, plug into the amp sitting on display and play a little bit.

I think the neck is indeed one of the keys to how it feels for someone. None of them were heavy at all, quite right in that respect from what I recall. This is why I'd ask as I'd like to know what to look for before I head back. I think I'm on the right track...

[Bezmotivnik]

I think the neck is indeed one of the keys to how it feels for someone. None of them were heavy at all, quite right in that respect from what I recall. This is why I'd ask as I'd like to know what to look for before I head back.
You can see my previous posts on guitar buying (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=4490266&postcount=2077), along with my background and qualifications for making them.

As I said, I NEVER play electric guitars I'm buying. Never. I inspect them.

I can tell how a neck will feel for me simply by how it fits in the web of my hand. As I have told people, the "perfect" fit feels so comfortable that you are not even aware of the neck. This is very rare. I can only think of one instrument I own that feels that way for me.

But...I don't regard this as critical. A good player can play any neck and playing different necks and fretboard radii will make you a better player.

I shop for the best deal I can get on a guitar with the least serious production flaws, and virtually all instruments have them. The maker is aware of them but believes that the average buyer isn't and will never be any the wiser. It's true. The most significant are fret flaws, which are getting more common rather than less. Also significant are alignment flaws. Both of these happen with great regularity and are sometimes all but irreparable. :(

[Warprunner]

I think the neck is indeed one of the keys to how it feels for someone. None of them were heavy at all, quite right in that respect from what I recall. This is why I'd ask as I'd like to know what to look for before I head back. I think I'm on the right track...

I have to agree. You have to have that "feel".
I knew a guy that played a Sears Silvertone 35 years ago. He played Clapton and Johnny Winter and I swear you couldn't tell the difference between him and the stars. That Silvertone fit his hand like a glove. He went on to play in Chicago and got into jazz. He was fast and accurate. He told me, forget about the type of guitar at first. Find one that will let your fingers fly! You can always install different guts in it. But that neck and how it feels in your hand...thats the key.

So I have always done that.

[Patrick-Ruff]

right on that sounds like a great idea. it seems that I'm becoming more of a shredder than anything, hope les pauls fit my playing style (though I've modified my style so I can play on 90% of guitars, so it shouldn't be too much of an issue.)

[herbster]

Thanks fellas, I'm headin' back to the store on Monday to spend some time testing more out.

Can I get some opinions/explanations on amp choice? I feel I'm far more ignorant in that aspect than the guitar choice itself. Things like a tube or solid state, some preferred brands (if such a thing is so), etc. I figure I will spend about $300-500 on the amp.

[herbster]

Also curious, since I am now just about at the point where barre chords are coming easily (whew! what a journey!), is it a matter of personal preference/style or something one "should" do when playing something like this (first part of Page's STH solo):

E|-------5-----------------------|--------------
B|----------8--5-----------------|-------------------
G|-7--------------7--5-----7--5--|------------------
D|----------------------7--------|-7--5--------------
A|-------------------------------|-------8---8----
E|-------------------------------|------------------

to use barre on the 5th, or no barre just "normal" playing?

[diwas]

No dont use it.

[Patrick-Ruff]

yeah play that normal, that's one of those shred riff's ;)

[herbster]

Yup yup, had a feeling. It's the "shiet I finally got the barres down, I wanna use 'em!" excitement :D

Any tips on amp choice fellas?

[shen-an-doah]

Yup yup, had a feeling. It's the "shiet I finally got the barres down, I wanna use 'em!" excitement :D

Any tips on amp choice fellas?

Well, it's really a question of what you wanna play. Whose sound do you admire? Do you want a great distorted or clean tone? Do you wanna use the amp's distortion or a pedal?

If you're looking for a good all-round amp that you can do a lot with for not much money, I'd recommend the Line 6 Spider III.

I'll elaborate when I know more what you want.

[herbster]

Thanks shen-an-doah. I'm not entirely clear on clean vs distortion, it sounds obvious enough by definition but I suppose a mix, yet greatly leaning towards cleaner. I admire Page's sound above all others personally, and I would say his playing sounds quite clean on most songs. I'm guessing the distorted would veer closer to Hendrix or someone?

I am looking for a nice clean rock 'n' roll sound, can play nice solos and perhaps some decent jazzy/bluesy stuff here and there. I have zero interest in metal and the like at the moment, which I'm guessing use more distortion?

As for the pedal, I don't understand how it works/is used/what exactly it's doing as I'm playing?

[Patrick-Ruff]

eh, I don't like line6's, too many digital effects and such. I think you just need to get an amp that has a great speaker setup and sounds good so you can later buy effects pedals for it if you ever get serious.

but if you're not very serious a line 6 may be for you, they do have some good basic effects.

[satanic-yobbo]

yes for sure thats the way to do it i agree fully with you patrick-ruff for sure thats the better way to go about it

[shen-an-doah]

Line 6 amps are good if you're gonna be playing a range of styles as they give you a big range of tonal options. Compared to something like a Fender, where the clean sound is great but the distortion is pretty bad for anything other than a blues overdrive.

Personally, I use a solid-state Fender so I have a great clean sound and I don't have the hassle of valves (price, maintenance, etc). Then I use my Marshall shredmaster for distortion.

Really, the best idea is to take your guitar down to your local shop and try it through some amps. Don't just try ones you can afford or that are in the power range you want as most companies tend to keep similar tonal characteristics across their range (so you can play through a 30w Marshall and know you like it and get a 50 or 100w and still like it).

[Bezmotivnik]

Personally, I use a solid-state Fender so I have a great clean sound and I don't have the hassle of valves (price, maintenance, etc). Then I use my Marshall shredmaster for distortion.

I think I did a long amp post somewhere in this thread.

I think the vast majority of amp buyers misunderstand what they're going to get from their amps and buy one that's inappropriate for their use. Doinking around for an hour at Guitar Center won't change that.:(

For the typical home duffer, the tube/solid-state question is not even meaningful as he will never be playing at the volumes required to hit the power-stage distortion "sweet spot" that only occurs at a single high-output point in a tube amplifier.

The only "tube distortion" he's getting is in the overdriven preamp tube, which he can get at any output level and can get with the typical hybrid amp anyway; the output section of the amp is being run clean at home volumes.

More to say later -- I have to run now...

[herbster]

I can with 99% certainty say I won't ever be playing outside my room with the amp, lol. I don't need it to be crazy loud, I'd say having a clean sound and the option for effects (which I understand may not be part of the amp) would be the priority.

[Patrick-Ruff]

well, this is just a fact of life. ALL amp's are built to go way louder than you think you need.

trust me, when you get good, you'll be glad it can go that loud :)


I have a general guitar question for you guys. I have this Tamara acoustic (not classical, acoustic) I'm borrowing from a friend, and I'm considering adjusting the truss rod. the action is moderately/really high in the middle of the guitar but not in the beginning, so I think the truss rod could remedy this, but I need some good info on the process and such.

thanks

edit: some extra info on the guitar, I believe the only truss rod adjustment I can do is from within the sound hole, I see a thing that can only be adjusted by an allen wrench (forgive me for my lack of vocabulary for this.)

[Zimmer]

AFAIK the truss rod is for compensating for bowing of the neck, that is, to straighten it out if bowed by the constant tension of the strings. Is the neck bowed? No? then perhaps you should leave the truss rod alone.

Easiest is to lower the bridge bone, without allowing the strings to foul on the first few frets. And if you have little scope for improvement then consider raising the nut (new one) and lowering the bridge bone further.

Recommended reading...
The Guitar Handbook by Ralph Denyer

ISBN 0 330 32750 X

[tinivole]

I bought a new one for £450!
It's a LAG Roxane in Brown, and It screams UBUNTU! all over it...
http://ubuntuforums.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=63759&stc=1&d=1206446261

If you are looking for student priced PRS replacement, get this!

It's twin EMG-HZ Pickups make it sound absolute gorgeous. In my honest opinion, sounds more exotic than the PRS SE series.

Boo-Ya!

Iain

[EDIT]
My Setup is Boss GT8 with sound outputted through Line6 TonePort UX2 and passed through an ASIO program of my choice (Usually Quantum FX... It's an amazing piece of software! With unlimited flexibility of effect making!) and MIDI of the GT8 passed through M-Audio Uno cable to control the effects of the software plugin/effect I'm running.

[Patrick-Ruff]

that's awesome. anyways that guitar has a really high action towards the middle, but the first few frets are fine. so I figured the only thing I /can/ really adjust is the truss rod.

[herbster]

Congrats tinivole! That is a sexy guitar :D We all have varying tastes, but I can certainly say I dig that. Reeeal nice. Rock on man :D

I can't wait to get back to the store tomorrow and try some more electrics and amps..

[Zimmer]

that's awesome. anyways that guitar has a really high action towards the middle, but the first few frets are fine. so I figured the only thing I /can/ really adjust is the truss rod.
Ok, measure it.
The best way would be a straight edge along the neck, but without one I believe you should put a capo on the first fret and hold the string down on the fret one above the body fret. Measure the maximum clearance in the dip that should be between the 5th and 8th frets. Ideally it should be 1/64th inch (0.4mm) if it is more than 1/32 inch (0.79mm) then you could adjust it. to decrease the dip loosen the strings adjust turning clockwise one eighth of a turn at a time ,retune, check again. if you have to turn it more than one rotation best you consult a repairer .....


I quote from the book I mentioned last post... not from personal experience. Have a guitar with a truss rod it is 30+ years old, never touched the truss rod...

[Mattaus]

Random post by me but i'm rather proud.

I just nailed pinch harmonics and my brother has had his double kicks for a while now and is rather good at 'em....so we will have "walk with me in hell" by Lamb of God nailed soon. It's like my ultimate goal in life lol.

Oh life is grand and I love playing the guitar.

[Patrick-Ruff]

hmm, what if the truss rod is extremely resistant to adjustment, it seems like I have to put a great deal of force to get it to move.

.45cm distance around the 12th fret and I would say preferrably at .10cm or somewhere around there.

I use light guage steel strings, by the way.

[thisllub]

hmm, what if the truss rod is extremely resistant to adjustment, it seems like I have to put a great deal of force to get it to move.

.45cm distance around the 12th fret and I would say preferrably at .10cm or somewhere around there.

I use light guage steel strings, by the way.

Before doing anything like this check out http://www.frets.com
The best resource on the web for guitar maintenance.

[shen-an-doah]

In recording news, I finished recording all the guitar overdubs on the Fay Wray album last night. It's sounding pretty awesome now, I reckon.

Now I just need to stop being ill so I can record the new vocal parts and then produce and mix everything...

[Zimmer]

hmm, what if the truss rod is extremely resistant to adjustment, it seems like I have to put a great deal of force to get it to move.

.45cm distance around the 12th fret and I would say preferrably at .10cm or somewhere around there.

I use light guage steel strings, by the way.
Not sure you have comprehended my post.
By putting the capo on the first fret and holding down the string on the the next fret after the body fret you will have the string lying flat like a straight edge along the neck. Look along that edge to see where the neck dips the most. That is the adjustment you can make using the truss rod.
The maximum dip should occur somewhere between the 8th and 5th frets. If that dip is within limits then there is no point in messing with the truss rod.

From what you just said it seems you just have a general problem with the action of the guitar (and maybe the angle of the neck to body, which, if it is a 'fixed' neck, you can do nothing about ) and NOT an extreme dip in the neck. Leave the truss rod alone...! :)

[paul cooke]

hmm, what if the truss rod is extremely resistant to adjustment, it seems like I have to put a great deal of force to get it to move.

.45cm distance around the 12th fret and I would say preferrably at .10cm or somewhere around there.

I use light guage steel strings, by the way.

do you have a cheap spare guitar you can mess around with? if the guitar you're having problems with is valuable or your only guitar, then don't mess with it, get it set up properly by someone who is competent and can fix it if they break it...

only adjust trussrods if you know what you're doing, the only way to know what you're doing is to make the mistakes on a clunker guitar, one you can afford to make mistakes on...

if the trussrod nut is stiff and won't turn clockwise, then it needs backing off slightly before attempting to turn it clockwise...

lefty loosey, righty tighty

clockwise tightens the truss rod and anti-clockwise loosens it...

oh, and get the correct tool, never attempt to adjust a trussrod with a loose tool... you'll only wreck the trussrod nut...

[Patrick-Ruff]

thanks for the advice, I think I'm going to leave it alone though.

[herbster]

----------
----------
----------
----------
-3--5--7
-3--5--7

Fellas I'm working on the G Major scale and I'm curious how you guys play that: index, middle and pinky or index, ring and pinky?

EDIT: Also, how much stress do you guys put on alternate picking (picking up/down alternately while playing, not just down all the time). It's kind of standard for me as I've made an effort to practice this way, but I gotta say straight picking down is much much faster for me with certain tricky parts of these doggone solos.

[diwas]

I play wid index, ring and pinky.
Use alternative pickin its good for future!! yeah the down picking is faster but alternate will be more faster and efficient as u practice.

[Patrick-Ruff]

hmm, yeah I would hope you don't have to change positions on that one, that would get nasty for me ;).

[herbster]

Yeah, I was changing positions on it at first, but now am really stretching. It's great practice :)

Okay fellas, I spent about 3 hours at the store today in their test room, and I tried a bunch of goodies. I narrowed down from 10-15 guitars the ones that felt really comfortable and I think sounded the best. I think these two were really good for me:

PRS SE Hollow body: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/PRS-Guitars-SE-Custom-SemiHollow-Electric-Guitar?sku=514461 ($690 @ store)

Fender Lite Ash Strat: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Lite-Ash-Stratocaster-Electric-Guitar-with-Tremolo?sku=511337X ($540 @ store)

Any advice on those?

Also, I tried various amps, but for my budget and goal (this one even goes waaaaay louder than I can ever picture myself needing it to be) I dig this one: http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-VibroChamp-XD-120V-Guitar-Combo?sku=483069

I figure the guitar will be about ~$700, amp about ~$250, I hit my budget target of $1000.

Any further tips/suggestions/advice is greatly appreciated fellas. I should be getting it all in a few weeks, no rush, but definitely wanna have my choice set.

[Patrick-Ruff]

hmm, amp looks good enough. both those guitars are pretty well out of my taste, except that fender is somewhat interesting.

if I were to pick between those two guitars I'd pick the PRS SE hollow body. but I'd keep looking if I were you.

[herbster]

I definitely plan to, Patrick. Care to elaborate on why you wouldn't choose them or what they lack that you'd look for? Or just a personal thing from experience? I really liked them.

[Patrick-Ruff]

well, that red surprised me when I saw a different picture, but it could look way better in real life anyways. it's just not my style. I prefer les pauls or certain ibanez guitars like these:

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Gibson-Les-Paul-Standard-60s-Neck-Electric-Guitar?sku=517188 (not necessarily that expensive, just that style, epiphone does well too, Im just showing you my sort of dream guitars.)

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Ibanez-JS1200-Joe-Satriani-Signature-Guitar?sku=519419



oh . . . . and of course . . . . this (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Gibson-ROBOT-Les-Paul-Ltd-Studio-Electric-Guitar?sku=518684) ;)

[herbster]

Ah, I see. The PRS one that I played was actually the Natural colour, not the red. After checking your links I can't say I have a style preference yet, will likely come with some more experience.

I was at the store again today for about an hour. I tried a few others and I gotta say, I really really like the PRS/Strat. I kept going back to them and really enjoying playing on them more than any others.

[Zimmer]

The PRS reminds me of the Rickenbacker 360 , due to the shape of the sound hole...
any Ibanez strat copies in store? Nice metallic colours.?..(Patrick likes metallic :) )
I am not a fan of the woodgrain effect... but each to his own..

I like the look of these, though..
http://www.ibanez.com/eg/guitar.aspx?m=RGA121

[Bezmotivnik]

I think the Lite Ash Stratocaster and the Vibro-Champ are intelligent choices, though I think I'd hold out for a little longer deal than $249 on the amp.

The Fender Lite Ash series (last time I looked) were made by Cor-Tek, which generally produces quality instruments -- for nearly every brand you can think of with current Korean models -- and has US-made Seymour Duncan pickups. I'm not 100% crazy about the look of the birdseye maple with the abalone dots, but the build quality is usually good. Check the fretwork.

I'm not a Stratocaster fan (though I have a couple, including an American series Hardtail and a very nice pre-CBS L-Series that's too valuable to play), but the Lite Ash ones I've seen seem to be better instruments than any of the Mexican ones.

Examine the one you get carefully, however; nobody's QC is perfect and I have seen a few Lite Ash Stratocasters that could have been better.

I'm not that familiar with the DSP effects in the Vibro-Champ, or if they're able to be bypassed and just be a straight tube amp like the original Champ. The original Champ is a classic recording amp (a Stratocaster and a Champ are what Clapton's playing on the Layla album, for example).

[herbster]

Thanks a lot Bezmotivnik. You are quite knowledgeable.

Like I said, I'm almost set on the Strat Lite Ash (played again today). I love the look and the play, and it sounds great no matter which amp we put it in (even plugged it in to a $90 baby amp).

What do you mean you'd hold out for a little longer than $249? You think it's too pricey? Hmm, I've checked numerous sites and stores, the lowest I saw it for was $235. Or would you recommend a different amp in the ~$300 range?

[Bezmotivnik]

What do you mean you'd hold out for a little longer than $249? You think it's too pricey?
That's not much of a discount for that amp. Just about any Fender product should have at least a 30% discount off MSRP ($333 in this case) to start with. I'd like that amp more if it was closer to $200.

[diwas]

Guys, Iam kinda amazed of lookin at this particular thread everyday. Why do you have to look so much into the brands and the sound the guitar produce in such a detail? Personally, (no offenses) I think its all ******** coz actually u have to have the creativity and the sound will be just perfect in any type of guitar. C'on lets really have some skills before putting hands on the sparkling guitars.
I have been playin guitar since 3 years and have a rough semi-acoustic guitar since then. But i dont need an electric guitar because the real taste of music through guitars is the melody which your mind can produce and replicate onto the freetboards of guitar.
I have seen noone here talks about the feeling, the excitement and the mirror that guitar can act towards ourself, rather everyone just goes about sayin this guitar gives this sound this amp has this effect...wats the use actually?? Why do u need so many effects? Just a clean sound can be touchy enough to drive ur soul away, u just have to find that key which is of the door between ur inner soul and guitar.

Well there are pros of guitar as well here, and yeah i salute u guys for makin music this good, but this message is to those newbies and amatures (like me) who think that buyin heavy guitars and amps will really make their guitar learnin damn easy. Or may be it will make u "hero" amongst the peer group. Grow up, leave the digital/analog stuffs for sometime and sit with actual guitar in your hand and let your fingers slide onto the freets.

Iam sorry if anyone is not happy wid this post...u can always reply me and scold me coz iam just new to this world and have lots to learn.

Thank you.
Diwas

[herbster]

That's not much of a discount for that amp. Just about any Fender product should have at least a 30% discount off MSRP ($333 in this case) to start with. I'd like that amp more if it was closer to $200.

Ah, gotcha. Bezmotivnik, do you have any other personal recommendation for an amp in and around this price range? (I am fairly set on the guitar now.)

Guys, Iam kinda amazed of lookin at this particular thread everyday. Why do you have to look so much into the brands and the sound the guitar produce in such a detail? Personally, (no offenses) I think its all ******** coz actually u have to have the creativity and the sound will be just perfect in any type of guitar. C'on lets really have some skills before putting hands on the sparkling guitars.
I have been playin guitar since 3 years and have a rough semi-acoustic guitar since then. But i dont need an electric guitar because the real taste of music through guitars is the melody which your mind can produce and replicate onto the freetboards of guitar.
I have seen noone here talks about the feeling, the excitement and the mirror that guitar can act towards ourself, rather everyone just goes about sayin this guitar gives this sound this amp has this effect...wats the use actually?? Why do u need so many effects? Just a clean sound can be touchy enough to drive ur soul away, u just have to find that key which is of the door between ur inner soul and guitar.

Well there are pros of guitar as well here, and yeah i salute u guys for makin music this good, but this message is to those newbies and amatures (like me) who think that buyin heavy guitars and amps will really make their guitar learnin damn easy. Or may be it will make u "hero" amongst the peer group. Grow up, leave the digital/analog stuffs for sometime and sit with actual guitar in your hand and let your fingers slide onto the freets.

Iam sorry if anyone is not happy wid this post...u can always reply me and scold me coz iam just new to this world and have lots to learn.

Thank you.
Diwas

Diwas, I think you're seeing it just the opposite of what it is. That being your point that a reliance/leaning toward the equipment as opposed to the practice/learning in and of itself is what's happening. Well, I want an electric exactly because I want to learn more. I found myself getting very knowledgeable in many respects with my acoustic these first four months, but completely clueless with electrics and amps whatsoever.

I think it's safe to say that if you're more serious, more disciplined, more interested in learning the guitar and all of this, you'd want to invest more in your pursuit, and money is only a part of it. I can definitely see myself being more of a classical/acoustic style player, and I want an electric because I want an electric and to diversify and expand my knowledge and abilities.

[Patrick-Ruff]

I disagree. I think the effects make a big difference based on style. you prefer acoustic, that works for you, good luck making a classic rock guitar solo with a clean amp effect ;).

and really, that's all I need to say to that, this thread is 215 pages long, I'm pretty sure we've already discussed effects, a LOT, and some composition. but really, effects are just tools, you are essentially cutting yourself off from better things if you deny yourself the use of effects.

and a comment on the detail of guitars that we go into: every pro eventually establishes that they have a very distinct taste in guitars as their style becomes solidified. I'm pretty sure just about every guitar player that has played 10+ years has guitars he/she prefers, or he/she would never touch.

HOWEVER, if your point was it's better to learn on clean with no really distorting effects then I agree, I spent a year with a classical with steel strings before I even touched electric.

[shen-an-doah]

HOWEVER, if your point was it's better to learn on clean with no really distorting effects then I agree, I spent a year with a classical with steel strings before I even touched electric.

Yeh, I think any "shredder" will always tell you that you need to learn things clean, with nothing hiding your mistakes. Then you can add whatever you want to make things more interesting...

[herbster]

^^^ That's the main thing, I agree, hearing yourself as clearly/cleanly as possible to develop a good foundation.

I got a request for you guys, if any of you have a few moments I'd really appreciate help to tab this nice solo "intro" (or interlude it may have been from the previous song) from a Deep Purple concert: Click to play (http://www.bobgill.net/sotwliveintro.mp3)

I just really love it, so smooth, and it is definitely not a difficult little solo to play, and I'm trying to work on tabbing it out for myself. Any input would be awesome, I know I'm in more experienced company :) No rush, any help in parts or whole would be greatly appreciated.

[Patrick-Ruff]

wow, that natural flat RGA121 is beautiful. how much is it? I can't find it on MF

[Patrick-Ruff]

you talking about that bluesy intro? I could probably tab it for you unless someone beats me to it.

[herbster]

Patrick, yeah the one I linked to (sotwliveintro.mp3), my goodness if you tab it I am indebted to you friend :D It's the kind of sound I love to play, so simple and relaxed, just love it. Thanks if you can mate!!

[Patrick-Ruff]

well, it seems to be really based on the blues scale. it sounds like it's using clean with some sort of effect, probably reverb with a tiny tiny bit of gain. I'll see wehat I can do, might not have time though.

[Zimmer]

wow, that natural flat RGA121 is beautiful. how much is it? I can't find it on MF
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/RGA121VLF

Strange, I found it first on MF and it was on backorder, about $899 then during the search I got a page saying it was NLA...


http://www.dv247.com/invt/34805/ one of my suppliers has a listing (I once got a Soundcraft mixer from them and some leads for tha Variax ).

@DIWAS
Well, I have spent the best part of 40 years enjoying the tones and expression to be obtained from my Eko Ranger 6 and a couple of Classic nylon acoustics so ,now I can afford it (and being a bit bored ), I am now exploring the wonderful world of digital effects and a Variax modelling guitar (and I also needed something to play through the Church PA without buying several different guitars :) )

Oh, and I saw some weirdly cool looking guitars today
http://www.italiaguitars.com/
Saw them at
http://www.soundcontrol.co.uk/mod_1/pages/mod_1.12/pages/mod_1.12.1/pages/index.php

[Bezmotivnik]

I have seen noone here talks about the feeling, the excitement and the mirror that guitar can act towards ourself, rather everyone just goes about sayin this guitar gives this sound this amp has this effect...
I'm a retired gear pro. Secondarily, I'm a retired #1 market (NYC) radio broadcaster and format developer. My focus is entirely on product.

Guitars and amps and effects are merely product.

The music that they produce is merely product.

The acts that record the music are also merely product.

Product is relatively good or bad and it's always been my job to objectively cull the the good from the bad. I was very good at my job.

Like most other people I've known who were serious music professionals, I don't have any emotional involvement with music as it's usually fatal to clear judgment. "Feelings" are absent aside from professional instincts about how successful and viable a product is.

It's a harsh thing to say, but "feelings" are only important to amateurs and naive consumers, which usually constitute internet discussion participants.

This is why you virtually never see industry professionals participating in these discussions as wanabees, hobbyists, fanboys and so forth are offended by the business attitudes of pros.

But yes, you are right, players obsess too much about gear and nearly always for the wrong reasons and nearly always in a state of near-pristine technical ignorance. Exploiting this irrationality is how the gear industry makes their profits.

[herbster]

Okay, went to another store today, waaay better selection of axes. Patrick I really understand now the style preference, I quickly realized what I dig now (I think perhaps similar to you). Here's the ones I dug, prices I noted are what they go for at the store here):

- Epi Les Paul Special (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Epiphone-Les-Paul-Special-II-Electric-Guitar?sku=518334) $470 (the one I played was $470, I'm assuming nicer than this, but this is the only LPS I could find on MF.)

- PRS SE Single Cut (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/PRS-Guitars-SE-Single-Cut-Electric-Guitar?sku=519375) $610 (This is a real sweet thing, decent weight, super comfortable, though I am not overtly fond of the style now compared to say the Ibanez).

- Ibanez S Series (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Ibanez-S320-S-Series-Electric-Guitar?sku=512503) $495 (This one is the lightest, reeeeally like it, very sexy and comfortable, but I dunno about the play-- the strings felt noodly compared to most of the others. Would have to get used to it, but IMO my favourite of 'em all.)

- Godin LG (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Godin-LG-P90-Electric-Guitar?sku=511876) $540 (on sale, though the one I tried was "Black Pearl." I really like the look of the Godin ones I saw, probably more than any others.)

- Fender Standard Strat (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-Standard-Stratocaster-Electric-Guitar?sku=516037) $465

Amps:

- Fender Super Champ (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-SuperChamp-XD-120V-Guitar-Combo?sku=483075) ($299)

- Marshall MG30DFX (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Marshall-MG30DFX-Combo-?sku=483188) ($220)

- Fender FM100h (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-FM-100H-Guitar-Amp-Head?sku=483716) ($250)


I'm feeling a bit torn, I absolutely love the look and feel of the Ibanez S, but need to play it again on Monday when I head back to the shop so I can get a better feel for it. It didn't quite match the PRS or LP. Ack, the choices! :D

[Saint Angeles]

i havent read this entire thread yet... but it might be interesting to know i am the store owner of a a music store thats been around since 1952...

i've only been manager for about 2 years now, but i teach private lessons for sax (i''ve been playing since 1994) and electric bass (since 1998 but i spent 2 years at a prominant degree program in hollywood after graduating high school)

if anyone in the los angeles area (downey to be exact) needs a good deal on an instrument... lemme know and i will hook you up lower than anybody you know... guaranteed...

this is a special deal for los angeles ubuntu users who are musically inclined.

also, if anybody needs any jazz theory help or guitar buying advice, lemme know...

[shen-an-doah]

Fender FM100h (http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Fender-FM-100H-Guitar-Amp-Head?sku=483716) ($250)

Don't get yourself a head and cab, that's really Overkill for what you need. I'd look further down the FM range as they're very good amps, though you'll want to use something else for distortion/effects. I use an FM212R (100w, 2 x 12" speakers) and it's great. I don't even turn it up past two when I'm playing at home (note that 1 is mute, rather than 0).

[Patrick-Ruff]

strings feeling noodly? do you mean they move a lot when you pick them, stretching and such? if that's the case, you'll adapt to that. most electric guitars have strings that stretch a lot when you're used to acoustic, after a while you will subconsciously pick up what's too much and eventually you may be able to speed pick too ;)

anyways, if it has the feel and you like it, go for it

[shen-an-doah]

Or you can always try heavier strings. Guitar shops tend to put lighter (and most likely cheaper) strings on as they appeal to more people than heavy strings...

[23meg]

Any Epiphone Valve Junior (combo) users? Bezmotivnik, I faintly recall you had one; am I right?

I wonder if it's possible to saturate the power stage within or slightly exceeding the "room" volume range.

[herbster]

Yes, the strings stretched/moved a lot compared to what I'm so used to with the acoustic now.

I'd hate to buy the guitar knowing I have/want to change the strings, just as much as not buying it because of that. Hmmm...

[shen-an-doah]

Yes, the strings stretched/moved a lot compared to what I'm so used to with the acoustic now.

I'd hate to buy the guitar knowing I have/want to change the strings, just as much as not buying it because of that. Hmmm...

If you're buying from a shop, you'll probably want to change the strings. Think about how many people may have played that guitar...

[herbster]

Well they don't sell the display models, they give you from the stock in the warehouse (brand spankin' new). Everything out front that folks be playing is display only.

[shen-an-doah]

Well they don't sell the display models, they give you from the stock in the warehouse (brand spankin' new). Everything out front that folks be playing is display only.

Ah, bit different to any guitar shop I've ever been in...

[Bubba64]

I couldn't find this thread so I posted a couple of links on my own thread to share some stuff for all you shredders out there.
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=740454
feel free to comment here I don't necessarily need it on my thread.

[Patrick-Ruff]

Yes, the strings stretched/moved a lot compared to what I'm so used to with the acoustic now.

I'd hate to buy the guitar knowing I have/want to change the strings, just as much as not buying it because of that. Hmmm...

don't go for heavier strings. try to get used to the electric strings, you will too.

I went through the SAME exact thing, I was totally acoustic string oriented, an electric was like a foreign thing to me. and I really really sucked when I first started, but I kept going at it and it worked.

though if those strings were way noodlier than the other electrics you played, they might be using extra-light or something. I always play with light strings on my electric, easier to tap, easier to shred, just perfect for my style. so I'd say do a little bit more checking on it and compare it to other guitars.

[shen-an-doah]

I use heavier strings (11-48 ), but that's because I'm a rhythm guitarist and I'm all about the riffs, so it's good for the tonal qualities. I also tune down to Eb.

It's also because I'm used to them, as when I started I played even heavier strings (11-58 ) so I could tune down to stuff like drop-C so I could play System of A Down stuff or whatever...

[Patrick-Ruff]

yeah, I just don't really like heavier strings on electrics, I felt that noodle sensation when I first played an electric, but I got over it after about a month of vigorous practice.

my goal anyways, is to have the technique that is most efficient and works for the widest range of guitars, so far I've succeeded :).

[herbster]

That sounds spot on Patrick, really sounds like me. Super used to the hard, solid strings of the acoustic now and gonna have to get down with lighter strings. I am 99% set on the Ibanez S. Probably grabbing it and the amp in a month or less.

[Patrick-Ruff]

yeah it looks good, ibanez are usually good quality. that guitar has a locking tremolo so you might want to do some reading into that, I don't know much about them so I can't tell you much but it's a little different from normal guitars, but I think you can treat it like a normal guitar and not use the locking tremolo at all . . . correct me if I'm wrong other peeps.

[Bubba64]

yeah it looks good, ibanez are usually good quality. that guitar has a locking tremolo so you might want to do some reading into that, I don't know much about them so I can't tell you much but it's a little different from normal guitars, but I think you can treat it like a normal guitar and not use the locking tremolo at all . . . correct me if I'm wrong other peeps.

Here is a good description of the mechanism advantages and disadvantages. They work great if your stings are stretched before you lock everything in.
http://www.australianmusician.com.au/mag/check12/IBANEZ_ZR_Double_Locking_Tremolo.html

[herbster]

Nice link Bubba! Just read that, sounds awesome. I am definitely getting the Ibanez S320, unless something else knocks me sideways like it did.

Now I can look for an amp in the ~$400 range since the axe is $500 :D

[Bubba64]

Some of you may have seen this information before, but for those that haven't.
http://www.gibson.com/robotguitar/

[Patrick-Ruff]

yes, plenty of it.

so I've been looking into a senior project and I'm thinking about building my own amp (with an amp kit of course.)

so far I've scouted out this (http://www.torresengineering.com/tweeddel5e3k1.html)

on that page they have other parts that I believe are meant to be bought for that amp. I was wondering what the more experienced amp builders think and if they can suggest any alternate places for parts, I can't go over 600 dollars on this. on the site it looks like they have the kit, speaker, and cabinet all there . . . is that everything I need?

I have a soldering iron, multimeter, etc. so the prep is no problem and I have prior experience when I fixed my amp. so I'd like some opinions and info :)

[Bezmotivnik]

Any Epiphone Valve Junior (combo) users? Bezmotivnik, I faintly recall you had one; am I right?
Yep. Like it very much. In a houseful of amps, it gets the most use. Absolutely bare-bone, "pure" amp -- no tonestack, no nonsense.

The later ones with DC heaters are virtually without idle noise, too.
I wonder if it's possible to saturate the power stage within or slightly exceeding the "room" volume range.
I haven't been able to, but maybe we have different rooms.;)

Generally speaking, power-stage distortion with a single EL84/6BQ5 tube is not as dramatic as with a 6V6GT anyway. Bill Machrone goes into this somewhat on his site.

There is a mod I've seen to switch the Valve Junior over to 6V6GT, but I haven't had the ambition to do it.

[matthew]

yes, plenty of it.

so I've been looking into a senior project and I'm thinking about building my own amp (with an amp kit of course.)

so far I've scouted out this (http://www.torresengineering.com/tweeddel5e3k1.html)
I haven't used Torres. When I was researching things to do similarly about 8 years ago (http://matthewhelmke.com/guitar-amp/allen.html), the company had a bit of a bad reputation. Things may have changed a lot in the meanwhile. I had a great experience with David Allen and his company, Allen Amplification (http://www.allenamps.com/). Take a look anyway, at least for comparison.

I also used to (http://matthewhelmke.com/guitar-amp/national.html) buy off of eBay, rebuild and sell/keep/give away. That is too expensive to be worth it now days, but the occasional pawn shop find is still possible in North America (far from me right now, sniff, sniff).

Once you learn proper safety, soldering and construction as well as how to read a schematic, this isn't terribly difficult stuff. Just don't kill yourself, okay? Read and understand the safety issues, follow the best practice guidelines and you will be fine.

[Patrick-Ruff]

yeah, I have a pretty good knowledge of the safty stuff, as I've done work with amps before. Though this will be tube, so it's going to be somewhat different.

I was just wondering if that site has everything there or if I can buy a chasis and speaker somewhere else and save money . . . and Allen amps looks too expensive for me, about 200 dollars out of my price range. unless there's something on their site I missed . .

[matthew]

This project has been around a long time and is well respected, although I have no personal experience with it. http://ax84.com/

There is a company building kits based on this (open source) design. Again, no personal experience, but it looks good, and bad experiences tend to become known quickly. http://shop.dobermanamps.com/

Do some research and see if this might fit the bill. EDIT: and let me know if you use them...I've thought about it for years. Someday I may have the time to get back into this.

[Patrick-Ruff]

yeah I'll keep you posted, I have no idea how I'm going to get the funds, but I'll probably figure out a way.


hmm, that dobermanamps looks good, http://shop.dobermanamps.com/product-p/kit-p1.htm

I think that's the one for me, I'm sort of wondering about the options they have on that page . .
Include Components for Variable Bias Option [Add $19.00]

what do they mean by that? and is this kit built for a 12" speaker?

I only ask these things because I'm relatively new to tube amps so I'm not sure of the power differences here.

[matthew]

The kits there do not include the cabinet, you will have to find another source for that. Look here for ideas (http://ax84.com/corecabinets.html).

Because of that, you can use whatever speakers you wish with the kit, as long as you remember to match the speaker impedance with the output transformer. That will also be true if you use a combination of speakers, like two 10" speakers.

A variable bias option can be nice. It allows an easy adjustment for power tube variations, to get things both stable and good sounding more easily. However, since that kit uses one EL84 in a single ended setup, this isn't necessary.

I read up on the kit a little bit. I think it will sound quite nice in a 1x10" or 1x12" speaker combo setup. With only five watts, you won't have a lot of clean headroom, but if you are after a nice power tube sound this should do the trick. It should give a good warm tone (preamp tubes pending, as well as player skill) at low volumes, and begin to break up nicely as volume rises. I predict it will be great a home or use in a studio. In public, it might be a bit underpowered, but you can always put a mic in front of the amp and let the sound system do the "make it louder" bit for you. Of course, if you end up playing gigs for money someday, you will be able to afford a bigger amp, right? :)

[Patrick-Ruff]

yeah, I'll probably get my hands on a half-stack if I ever get to giggin' but I doubt that will be for a long while. as long as it can keep up with say, other people jamming with me, then that's good. I would prefer to set it up with a 1x12, but if it's really not going to be that loud? maybe I'll want a 1x10 (you need to clarify what 'loud' is to you)

[matthew]

That amp, with a 1x10 or 1x12 will be plenty for just jamming with friends, unless you have one of those "turn it up as loud as it will go" or "bang on it as hard as you possibly can" sort of friends. :) Either size speaker will be fine. Use what you want.

Wattage and loudness work on a logrithmic scale. To double the actual db coming out, you need to increase the wattage by a power of ten. All other things being equal (speakers, cabinets, circuitry, etc.), you need to go from a 5 to a 50 watt amp to double the volume and so on.

I prefer lower wattage amps. You can actually start to overdrive the power tubes before you kill your hearing or get the police called on you. This gives you a chance for wonderful tones at reasonable volumes.

[HangukMiguk]

Bassists welcome in here?

[Pancetilla]

Bassists welcome in here?

NO! [-X

...:p

I know next to nothing about basses, but I tried a fender jazz bass the other day and it was like :shock:. Easy to play and perfect sound. I want one!



Regarding low-wattage (and affordable) tube amps...any thoughts about the 1-watt killer ant by Blackheart? It's pretty cheap and people are raving about his big 5-watt brother.

[HangukMiguk]

I know next to nothing about basses, but I tried a fender jazz bass the other day and it was like :shock:. Easy to play and perfect sound. I want one!

Jazz basses are just amazing. My teacher, when I was first learning, tried to tell me to stick with Precision basses. Honestly, I wish I had never listened to him, because my P-Bass played crappy, and gave me more grief than any guitar I've owned, and then I picked up a Jazz Bass, and smacked myself in the head.

Right now, I'm trying to get used to my 6-String bass. It's quite an unusual beast.

[Patrick-Ruff]

bassists have always been welcome in this thread.

thanks for the info matthew, I'm definitely going to pursue this if I get the funds, and I will keep you posted every step of the way :D

[shen-an-doah]

Jazz basses are just amazing. My teacher, when I was first learning, tried to tell me to stick with Precision basses. Honestly, I wish I had never listened to him, because my P-Bass played crappy, and gave me more grief than any guitar I've owned, and then I picked up a Jazz Bass, and smacked myself in the head.

Right now, I'm trying to get used to my 6-String bass. It's quite an unusual beast.

I've never liked P-basses. Tis a similar thing to me not liking strats. Everyone has one and they just seem boring to me. Jazz basses on the other hand are awesome. I tried one out when I was looking for my bass. Wish it had been in my price range.

Instead I got a Cruiser CX-100 (http://www.guitarempire.co.uk/pages/fullProd.php/Cruiser_by_Crafter_CX100_Bass/354), which is an awesome bass and has no right to be available for that cheap. It's got 24 frets, Bubinga back and top, and an active EQ.

[Bezmotivnik]

I tried a fender jazz bass the other day and it was like :shock:. Easy to play...
Leo Fender specifically designed the Jazz Bass to make it an easy transition for guitarists. In the old days, the worst guitarist in the group had to play bass, so the Jazz was supposed to make this humiliation less physically painful.

Incredibly, I've never owned or played a Jazz. I always bore them a strange prejudice, but have been looking for a good deal on one from the remaining stock of lately-discontinued "American" series instruments. So far I haven't found my price.

For some mysterious reason, Jazz Basses have all but replaced the Precision in the current trend.

[Pancetilla]

Leo Fender specifically designed the Jazz Bass to make it an easy transition for guitarists. In the old days, the worst guitarist in the group had to play bass, so the Jazz was supposed to make this humiliation less physically painful.

That was exactly my case with my band :)

...but I was so bad playing guitar than even my tempo was awful, so it made no sense to make me play the bass. So i took rhythm guitar (low volume)/vocal duties.

Anyway, McCartney started playing the bass when Sutcliffe left and he wasn't the worst guitarist (Taxman's solo is his) :guitar:

[Bubba64]

The jazz bass compared to a precision has more tonal control, although a precision bass with a jazz pickup added is a good combination. I don't think Jaco Pastorious would have sounded the same with a fretless precision. Personally I have a custom 5 string with jazz bass pickups rewound with 2 extra poles with a smooth ebony fingerboard. I have had a few jazz basses and I really liked them the neck is so thin you can play quite fast.

[Bezmotivnik]

...but I was so bad playing guitar than even my tempo was awful, so it made no sense to make me play the bass.
That's why you were just supposed to double the kickdrum. Seriously. But yeah, playing bass (properly) is simpler, but more difficult.

The Failed Guitarist Complex has been the abiding curse of real bass playing for the past fifty years.

Anyway, in point of historical fact, the invention of the Jazz Bass marked the moment "electric bass" started becoming "bass guitar," and to my mind it's been mostly downhill since.

The Precision Bass was specifically invented to accommodate real upright bassists and the Jazz Bass was specifically invented to accommodate guitarists. Literally, as Leo Fender's stated intent.

Almost every subsequent technical and stylistic move away from the Precision bass has been away from bass and toward guitar.

Count me among the many bassists who detest that.

[Pancetilla]

Back on topic, I'm getting lot of trouble to keep my epiphone casino in tune, it might be caused by the default machine heads (guess it's the proper name for that, my english is bad and worse when it comes to technical names). anyone had/have a casino? Any advices? I'm thinking of changing those machine heads, but I'm pretty clueless about what brand/model to use...

[wieman01]

Calm down, guess. Please stay on topic. I am watching it.

[Belliinator]

Back on topic, I'm getting lot of trouble to keep my epiphone casino in tune, it might be caused by the default machine heads (guess it's the proper name for that, my english is bad and worse when it comes to technical names). anyone had/have a casino? Any advices? I'm thinking of changing those machine heads, but I'm pretty clueless about what brand/model to use...

Imo, if your guitar gos out of tune all the time, your might want to get a set-up. Its where they adjust the harmonics, truss rod, initation (i think thats what its called) because they will probably be out, like my guitar. Pros feel free to correct me, but i think that will more likely be the cause than just dodgy tuning heads.

[Bezmotivnik]

Pros feel free to correct me, but i think that will more likely be the cause than just dodgy tuning heads.
Yes, machines take an awful lot of bad rap with tuning problems, which almost always originate elsewhere...assuming the user knows how to properly string and tune his instrument, and many don't.

In my professional experience (http://ubuntuforums.org/showpost.php?p=4613628&postcount=2151) I'd say that a full 80% of tuning instability not directly attributable to user error was due to friction/slip cycling somewhere in the string path.

This has a lot to do with the terrible cost-cutting in guitar assembly at all sub-custom price points with most manufacturers.

I could give numerous examples (such as using a mallet to set string grooves in saddles -- no, I am not joking), but the end effect is that the nut and (especially) saddles are gripping on the string windings and not permitting string tension to equalize efficiently on both sides of the contact -- you tune the guitar, play it a bit and it's out of tune...over and over.

Multiply this problem about a thousand times for almost all vibrato (not "tremolo") -equipped instruments .

The surfaces of these string-path contact points must be smooth, correctly sized and angled and slightly lubricated in order for any guitar to maintain reasonable tuning stability.

[paul cooke]

Back on topic,

there is NO topic... this is a chat thread for Ubuntu using guitar players...

I play bass guitar... six of them, not all at once!!! I also have an electric guitar and an acoustic guitar and a couple of keyboards and a set of diatonic harmonicas and a drumset...

anyroad... I'm actually in the middle of replacing the machine heads on my acoustic guitar because the old gears are clapped out...

[shen-an-doah]

I play bass guitar... six of them, not all at once!!!

Well, obviously you just haven't tried hard enough... :)



I just got some new strings for my guitar, so I'm gonna give it a good clean and a restringing later.

As for stuff about machine heads and tuning, they can be a problem. If they have little screws in them (not the ones that attach them to the headstock), try tightening them.

But yeh, as Bez said, another problem can be your strings catching on the bridge or nut. I have a Bigsby on my SG, but I have a graph tech nut (http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Nuts,_saddles/String_nuts/Graph_Tech_Nuts.html) and a roller bridge (http://www.stewmac.com/shop/Bridges,_tailpieces/Electric_guitar,_Tune-o-matic_bridges/Locking_Roller_Bridge.html), so my tuning is rock solid (well, except for when I get a bit crazy with the trem and the spring falls out).

[fissionmailed]

That's why you were just supposed to double the kickdrum. Seriously. But yeah, playing bass (properly) is simpler, but more difficult.

The Failed Guitarist Complex has been the abiding curse of real bass playing for the past fifty years.

Anyway, in point of historical fact, the invention of the Jazz Bass marked the moment "electric bass" started becoming "bass guitar," and to my mind it's been mostly downhill since.

The Precision Bass was specifically invented to accommodate real upright bassists and the Jazz Bass was specifically invented to accommodate guitarists. Literally, as Leo Fender's stated intent.

Almost every subsequent technical and stylistic move away from the Precision bass has been away from bass and toward guitar.

Count me among the many bassists who detest that.

Hhhmmm is electric bass evolving a bad thing? I'm not saying that the a bassist shouldn't hold a groove but new instrument electric bass is changing. I hate to say it, but people like John Entwistle and bands like Ruins really changed how people look at electric bass. All an instrument is, is a tool. Just because electric bass is played differently from upright bass does mean it's bad.

Personally, I've played the on the bass drum style electric bass and the more "guitarist" style electric bass and both have their place.

Your post kind of comes off with an elitism attitude which, I'm not saying you are or aren't, but some one could read that into it.

[herbster]

Yeehaw! Just got the first few parts of Bohemian down, finally it's smooove :D Now the middle to the end, well.. I'll report back in about a year lol :D :guitar:

[herbster]

What fingers would you use to play this (Wanted Dead or Alive intro):

E------------13-------------------12-------------------10--------------------8------------------
B-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
G-------14-------14---------12--------12--------10---------10---------9--------9-------------
D---0-------------------0--------------------0----------------------0---------------------------
A------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm using my middle on the high E and ring on G, then middle on high E and index on G. Is that correct or is there a more efficient way?

[herbster]

Few more noob questions: What does tremolo do, is it a worthy selling feature on a guitar to have tremolo? And when I buy my electric, what exactly should/must I do when I start playing, in terms of setting it up?

I'm torn between the Ibanez S320 and the Lite Ash Strat now...

[Zimmer]

Few more noob questions: What does tremolo do, is it a worthy selling feature on a guitar to have tremolo? And when I buy my electric, what exactly should/must I do when I start playing, in terms of setting it up?
...
The tremelo arm is linked to th e bridge/string mounting area which is now on a sprung moveable mounting . Pulling or pushing down on the tremelo arm levers the plate to tension and detension the strings thus changing the pitch up and down, and releasing the arm returns (hopefully) the mechanism to its starting point and original pitch.
A mechanical effect from back in the days when there were few or no stomp boxes.
Tremelo was a feature in the 50's and 60's used a lot by Hank Marvin (The Shadows) . (Showing my age, here.) I have tremelo arms and mechanisms on both my electrics, but do not use them. Some players even 'lock them down'. to prevent tuning variations.
Over use of the tremelo can lead to the guitar going out of tune rapidly and stretching the strings prematurely.

[herbster]

Thanks a lot Zimmer, so from your post I gather it's rather pointless/avoidable? The Lite Ash has tremolo, whereas the S320 does not. Seems to be another factor swaying me toward the Ibanez, hehe.

[Zimmer]

No, I don't mean to 'put you off' buying a tremelo equipped guitar. Just explaining the unit.

You might find you are able to skillfully use it!!! and to great effect. But I know I can't :) and I was just pointing out the negatives should the tremelo unit prove bothersome.

My latest (the Variax 600) comes with the smaller radius neck to the Variax 700 and 300.
But it does not come as a 'hardtail' version. So I live with the tremelo arm mechanism (but with the lever unscrewed, removed and living in a plastic bag in the gig bag) because I like the smaller radius neck... and you never know, one day I may learn how to use it properly.

[Bubba64]

Here is the wikapedia description of the origin and intent of the production of the Jazz Bass. Because the upright or contrabass is found primarily in classical music and Jazz, it may seem logical to assume that a bass called Jazz would be manufactured in response to the needs of Jazz musicians. Although the Jazz Bass is a great funk bass as well and because of it's tonal flexibility and bright sound is at home in many forms of music.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fender_Jazz_Bass

[Bezmotivnik]

Personally, I've played the on the bass drum style electric bass and the more "guitarist" style electric bass and both have their place.
You somewhat missed my point with that, which was that if the guy who was thrown unprepared into the bass player's role and was out of his depth and rhythmically lost, he could always just play the tonic linked to the bass drum. When all else fails, do that, no need to panic.

There are a million recordings where that's about all that's going on.

Your post kind of comes off with an elitism attitude which, I'm not saying you are or aren't, but some one could read that into it.
If one understands that there are actually physical reasons why bass instruments are traditionally played the way they are and fill a certain role in musical ensembles, whether they're pop combos or classical orchestras, then my point about "bass guitarists" overplaying will be much clearer. Indeed, electric basses and bass amplification had to be totally redesigned merely in order to break out of that role.

Whether you think that's a good thing or not is up to you. I don't.

[Bezmotivnik]

Here is the wikapedia description of the origin and intent of the production of the Jazz Bass.
Wikipedia is frequently -- usually -- very wrong about Fender lore.

Fender claimed he named the "Jazz Bass" that purely as a marketing adjunct to the up-priced Jazzmaster guitar. The design was, as I said earlier, specifically to accommodate guitarists converting to bass, with the much slimmer neck and somewhat brighter tone.

[Bubba64]

Wikipedia is frequently -- usually -- very wrong about Fender lore.

Fender claimed he named the "Jazz Bass" that purely as a marketing adjunct to the up-priced Jazzmaster guitar. The design was, as I said earlier, specifically to accommodate guitarists converting to bass, with the much slimmer neck and somewhat brighter tone.

Funny the little searching I did including quoted Leo Fender history supported the wikapedia info. The only thing that I am trying to point out here is that we must remember that our own opinions are our own, and far from reflecting such a huge base of differences in amounts of players and styles of music. Your original statement was that everything has gone down hill from a certain point, I understand where your coming from that a bass player at the least should be able to play the root of a chord sequence in conjunction with the kick drum. But try to do this with a a complex set of chord progressions such as John Coltranes Giant Steps with the time going at say 250-300 beats per minute with any number of accomplished jazz drummers who are not going to play any same place with their kick drum in any bar. Even in simpler forms of music lets say the blues played by accomplished players your not going to hear a repetitive drum line, I think the main reason for this is creativity and expression. As I said I do agree that there are some fundamentals that are important, but if we all played the same way with the same script of music life would be pretty boring. Believe it or not I am some what on your side, I think in the end it is a matter of semantics.

[Bezmotivnik]

Thanks a lot Zimmer, so from your post I gather it's rather pointless/avoidable? The Lite Ash has tremolo, whereas the S320 does not
First, "tremolo" is a common misnomer rooted in Leo Fender's musical ignorance. These are (as even motorcycle mechanic Paul Bigsby understood) vibrato devices. Vibrato relates to pitch, tremolo to volume or iteration.

Gang-sprung vibrato devices on guitars have innate tuning problems that are impossible to completely escape, though makers have been tinkering with the concept since its inception. The closest that anyone's come so far is the Floyd Rose, which at least addresses the basic repeatability problem head-on by locking the strings at both ends of the played length. It is a big, complicated, intrusive device the sheer mass of which has a distinct effect on the sound of the instrument. It is also a pretty big nuisance to set up. It does work relatively well at keeping tune in hard use.

Personally, I particularly hate tuning problems and don't find the vibrato effect commonly useful enough for me to be worth the additional grief; though I have approximately a dozen modern and vintage guitars with most vibrato designs represented, I almost never play them except for recording.

You may feel differently.

[herbster]

Can you give an example of a song that uses it where I could hear the effect quite pronounced? I can only correlate it to a regular vibrato in my mind, since I haven't played the effect myself yet.

[Bezmotivnik]

Funny the little searching I did including quoted Leo Fender history supported the wikapedia info.

From the Wikipedia page on "electric bass" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_guitar)

First introduced in 1960, The Fender Jazz Bass was known as the Deluxe Bass and was meant to accompany the Jazzmaster guitar. The Jazz Bass (often referred to as a "J-bass") featured two single-coil pickups, one close to the bridge and one in the Precision bass' split coil pickup position, and was designed by Leo Fender to be an easier bass for a guitarist to play than the existing Precision Bass, due to the narrower nut (noted later).

This is fairly consistent with the information I got directly from FMIC on the old, semi-official FenderForum some years ago.

Leo Fender constantly contradicted himself, but this information is at least logically consistent.

[Bubba64]

From the Wikipedia page on "electric bass" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bass_guitar)

First introduced in 1960, The Fender Jazz Bass was known as the Deluxe Bass and was meant to accompany the Jazzmaster guitar. The Jazz Bass (often referred to as a "J-bass") featured two single-coil pickups, one close to the bridge and one in the Precision bass' split coil pickup position, and was designed by Leo Fender to be an easier bass for a guitarist to play than the existing Precision Bass, due to the narrower nut (noted later).

This is fairly consistent with the information I got directly from FMIC on the old, semi-official FenderForum some years ago.

Leo Fender constantly contradicted himself, but this information is at least logically consistent.

As I said it is a matter of semantics when you play a bass guitar you are a guitar player, I think this is not a reference to guitar players playing the bass specifically. Yes most of us who play music for a long time play a little of a lot of instruments, my main instrument was the tenor sax, but I also played the clarinet, flute oboe, bassoon trumpet, piano, and the guitar. Why would Leo design a bass that made it an easier transition from the upright for a six string guitar player.
I think your reading what you want to, to answer your own opinions than as said a logical consistent, and your unable to admit that you might be speaking with your own opinion which is supportable only from a personal reality. None of us really know what the intentions of the Fender Company's releases were. I am willing to let the subject drop, but if it makes you feel better to have the last word proceed.

[Bubba64]

Can you give an example of a song that uses it where I could hear the effect quite pronounced? I can only correlate it to a regular vibrato in my mind, since I haven't played the effect myself yet.

Think of what a Hammond b3 organ sounds like. Although it is not a guitar.
Tremolo
Tremolo Tre"mo*lo, n. [It. Cf. Tremulous.] (Mus.)
(a) The rapid reiteration of tones without any apparent
cessation, so as to produce a tremulous effect.
(b) A certain contrivance in an organ, which causes the notes
to sound with rapid pulses or beats, producing a
tremulous effect; -- called also tremolant, and
tremulant.
[1913 Webster]

[Bezmotivnik]

Think of what a Hammond b3 organ sounds like.
That's probably a Leslie, which is BOTH tremolo and vibrato [!], the latter being due to Doppler pitch shift from the mechanical rotation of the paired horns.

As such, it's a unique but not very clear example. Any "dive-bombing" guitarist's music, EVH's say, conveys extreme vibrato use more clearly to the average player.

The classic intros to Elvis Costello's "Watching the Detectives" or The Smith's "How Soon is Now?" are clear examples of tremolo.

[Patrick-Ruff]

wow, I missed out on 3 pages here.

[matthew]

Hi guys,

I'm really, really busy lately in real life, so I haven't been around here as much the last few days. I just caught up on the last several pages of posts and I have a small comment.

Beztmotivnik knows what he is talking about with this stuff. I'm up on the Fender lore and history, as well as the technical details of instruments and what he is telling you is accurate re: vibrato vs tremolo, origins of the "Jazz Bass" and so on. Also, I'm primarily a guitarist, and not a terribly bad one. I enjoy playing bass, but I tend to overplay. Why? Because I play the bass like a really low strung guitar, unless I really concentrate...sometimes that sounds good, but often it just muddies things up and gets distracting. I think that is what he is on about.

[shen-an-doah]

That's probably a Leslie, which is BOTH tremolo and vibrato [!], the latter being due to Doppler pitch shift from the mechanical rotation of the paired horns.

He's probably confusing the Hammond's Leslie with a Fender Rhodes, which uses Tremelo (check out The Misfits-Cough/cool for this).


As for a vibrato bar, it basically allows you to change the pitch of all the strings at once. This means you can do things that are impossible with finger vibrato, such as adding it to whole chords or open strings. You can also do more extreme things with something like a Floyd Rose. This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qtUiQJc7ZMI) should give you an idea of some of the more extreme things you can do with a vibrato bar.

[Bubba64]

Hi guys,

I'm really, really busy lately in real life, so I haven't been around here as much the last few days. I just caught up on the last several pages of posts and I have a small comment.

Beztmotivnik knows what he is talking about with this stuff. I'm up on the Fender lore and history, as well as the technical details of instruments and what he is telling you is accurate re: vibrato vs tremolo, origins of the "Jazz Bass" and so on. Also, I'm primarily a guitarist, and not a terribly bad one. I enjoy playing bass, but I tend to overplay. Why? Because I play the bass like a really low strung guitar, unless I really concentrate...sometimes that sounds good, but often it just muddies things up and gets distracting. I think that is what he is on about.

If you believe it, it must be true. Just giving you a hard time. So the the statement made by your cohort that everything has gone downhill from a certain point is accurate, we should leave out people like Jaco Pastorious, Marcus Miller and Anthony Jackson, John Patitucci, and Percy Jones. I think with music it is a matter of taste if you don't like a style of playing or musical style does it make it not valid. In the arts for example some people don't like Jackson Pollock, but it turns out that some of his paintings are actually fractal geometry. My only real problem here is that some statements were made that sound like Nietzsche's book Thus Spoke Zarathustra. We all live within in our own personal realities which are a mixture of experiences in a cultural context and what we have learned and the preloaded unconscious or collective unconscious stuff we are born with. The minute you start making resolute statement about any thing you might want to look at your own motivations. Personally coming from the study of music at a college level and playing professionally as a jazz musician and other form of improvisational, and the avante garde, a lot of the comments do not fit the context of who I have played with or the types of music I have played. As Quincy Jones once said "all types of music have been taken to a complete resolution now we have to start mixing them together to make something new" this is paraphrased but coming from a giant in the recording and composition world.

[Bubba64]

Here is an interesting site that talks about the micro pitch differentiation in the idea of tremolo and vibrato.
http://www.vibroworld.com/magnatone/vibrato.html

[Bubba64]

Here is a good example of crossing musical types and styles all of these guys are very well known virtuoso players. Check out the 10 string Warr Guitar playing by Trey Gunn and the polyrhythmic drumming of Pat Mastelloto. To some of you this may be noise others of you may appreciate the artistic expression.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXgssoTVgJo
Here is another one with Treys band
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23AjeSyECG8

[herbster]

What fingers would you use to play this (Wanted Dead or Alive intro):

E------------13-------------------12-------------------10--------------------8------------------
B-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
G-------14-------14---------12--------12--------10---------10---------9--------9-------------
D---0-------------------0--------------------0----------------------0---------------------------
A------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
E------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm using my middle on the high E and ring on G, then middle on high E and index on G. Is that correct or is there a more efficient way?

Kinda got lost in the discussion (which I learned a lot from btw)... anyone? :)

[matthew]

I would play that using my ring and index fingers, kind of like if I was fingering a D chord in the open position, but starting a lot higher on the neck and sliding it down, adjusting the fret positions of the fingers slightly as needed. That would minimize the amount of movement necessary, making the bit more efficient (and easier) to play.

[herbster]

Sweet, gracias Matthew.

I'm starting to work on getting a bit faster step by step during my practice now, is the main movement to be with the wrist (of picking hand, right hand)? What to watch out for? I notice often that either my front shoulder or tricep/outer arm area will tense up as I try to get faster.

[matthew]

There are a lot of ways you could pick that. If you are using a flatpick, then most of the movement would be in your wrist. Personally, I would tuck the pick in the palm of my picking hand, held in place by my pinky, and use my thumb, index, and middle fingers to do the arpeggio.

If you practice it for a while, trying to stay relaxed, you will find it isn't really too difficult to train your hand to move the pick into a stored position like that and back out in a rather smooth and quick one-handed motion.

[herbster]

Ah, very interesting. I guess this is where I get confused-- I kind of assumed that players that use a flatpick primarily do everything with it. It's definitely much easier and faster for me to fingerpick it, I just thought it was "incorrect" to do so. Does it really just boil down to preference? I feel at times that if I fingerpick instead of use a flatpick, I'm kind of "cheating" or something.

[matthew]

There is no "right" way. The guitar is such a new instrument and people are still inventing new techniques. What it boils down to is what feels right and makes the sounds you are trying to make the best way possible.

So, you aren't cheating by switching or anything, you are adding another cool tool to your toolbox.

[fissionmailed]

You somewhat missed my point with that, which was that if the guy who was thrown unprepared into the bass player's role and was out of his depth and rhythmically lost, he could always just play the tonic linked to the bass drum. When all else fails, do that, no need to panic.

There are a million recordings where that's about all that's going on.


If one understands that there are actually physical reasons why bass instruments are traditionally played the way they are and fill a certain role in musical ensembles, whether they're pop combos or classical orchestras, then my point about "bass guitarists" overplaying will be much clearer. Indeed, electric basses and bass amplification had to be totally redesigned merely in order to break out of that role.

Whether you think that's a good thing or not is up to you. I don't.

I agree with that to an extent.

Trust me, I know URBs are hard to play. There's a reason that some URBist who play with their fingers use all four fingers to pluck the strings. Plus like you said, they're not the clearest thing.

So you think that breaking away from the old style of bass playing is bad?

[guitarthrasher]

There is no "right" way. The guitar is such a new instrument and people are still inventing new techniques. What it boils down to is what feels right and makes the sounds you are trying to make the best way possible.

So, you aren't cheating by switching or anything, you are adding another cool tool to your toolbox.

Amen to that.

I've been using about 28742349 techniques for many things like sweep picking, pinch harmonics, pentatonic scales, and many many more things.

Oh, and a reply to the beginning posts, I use a Shecter C-1.

METALLL. lol

[Patrick-Ruff]

yeah, I went through a ton of different techniques too, still doing it as well.

I believe I have a TON of music theory to learn and a ton of different techniques. so I'm gonna get to that instead of posting more ;)

[Bezmotivnik]

So you think that breaking away from the old style of bass playing is bad?
I think unwittingly abandoning the historic (as well as necessary and logical) role of bass instrumentation in favor of playing second lead guitar on a bass-like instrument with artificially hyped upper harmonics (so you can wildly overplay without the sound turning into an undifferentiated rumble) is a musical error.

If you want to do it, great.

If you can actually get paid for doing it, fantastic. That's what counts. If someone cuts you a check, don't mind me or anyone else.

I was watching a Bill Dickens video some months ago. Afterwards, I thought, "What a nice, serious, dedicated and hard working man he is! But...do I ever want to hear his playing again? No. Do I respect what he's doing? No. Is it even bass? No, because "bass" was being played by the keyboardist in the band in the video! :rolleyes:

[fissionmailed]

I think unwittingly abandoning the historic (as well as necessary and logical) role of bass instrumentation in favor of playing second lead guitar on a bass-like instrument with artificially hyped upper harmonics (so you can wildly overplay without the sound turning into an undifferentiated rumble) is a musical error.

If you want to do it, great.

If you can actually get paid for doing it, fantastic. That's what counts. If someone cuts you a check, don't mind me or anyone else.

I was watching a Bill Dickens video some months ago. Afterwards, I thought, "What a nice, serious, dedicated and hard working man he is! But...do I ever want to hear his playing again? No. Do I respect what he's doing? No. Is it even bass? No, because "bass" was being played by the keyboardist in the band in the video! :rolleyes:

I think what I'm asking is what do you consider that? What is over playing, the lead guitar on bass thing? Because I agree with those ideas, except the upper harmonics part.

Personally, I dislike what I've heard of Bill Dickens and most people like that, a la mode de Billy Shehan, Vic etc etc. I love stuff like Ruins though (if interested there's some free mp3s here (http://www.skingraftrecords.com/audio.html)).

[Bezmotivnik]

I think what I'm asking is what do you consider that?
Without getting into my own personal pejorative terms, I think in many ways "bass guitar" describes it, which was the point I was trying to make. These people are not playing "bass," as it is commonly defined in traditional arranging, but "guitar" in a lower range.

But what I said about harmonics was true; this type of playing was impossible until the combined technical effects of high-mass bridges, bridge pickups, dense/rigid instrument construction, bright roundwounds, Steve Rabe's amps and cabs, octave splitting, etc. came along.

[fissionmailed]

Without getting into my own personal pejorative terms, I think in many ways "bass guitar" describes it, which was the point I was trying to make. These people are not playing "bass," as it is commonly defined in traditional arranging, but "guitar" in a lower range.

But what I said about harmonics was true; this type of playing was impossible until the combined technical effects of high-mass bridges, bridge pickups, dense/rigid instrument construction, bright roundwounds, Steve Rabe's amps and cabs, octave splitting, etc. came along.

I think that's what I'm asking haha.

[Zimmer]

First, "tremolo" is a common misnomer rooted in Leo Fender's musical ignorance. These are (as even motorcycle mechanic Paul Bigsby understood) vibrato devices. Vibrato relates to pitch, tremolo to volume or iteration. ...

.

Indeed, very educational this thread! From reading one of the other links the Tremelo arm (as it has been called for many years) is by definition a Vibrato arm.
Now I am aware of this it will annoy me for the rest of my life.:)

Maybe we need an EU directive (the sort that compels manufacturers to put 'Contains Nuts' on packets of peanuts ) to ensure guitar makers use the term Vibrato arm in future. (My instruction book for the guitar has a section 'Tremelo setup') . Perhaps they are breaching the Trades Description Act (here in UK) and I can demand a refund as the Tremelo arm does not produce a true Tremelo effect! :lolflag:
How many guitars with a 'Tremelo' have you got, Bezmotivnik, that you have tired of and could claim a refund?? I expect you will be stuck with them , just like we are stuck with Tremelo arm. I guess It has been common (mis)usage for too long..

[buried]

I've got an Ibanez would someone teach me how to play Chop suey :P

[BuffaloX]

What do you think of this... :guitar:

Try listen to Sandsound mordor, and tell me what you think. :)
http://www.freecord.net/

[Bubba64]

We all occasionally get a laugh when we run into the Tinfoil hat person mumbling an incoherent diatribe. This thread is full of those laughs. Personally I find if the hat is to tight you can't get the information from the Mother Ship clearly.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SEUWwyT8xhY

[paul cooke]

Indeed, very educational this thread! From reading one of the other links the Tremelo arm (as it has been called for many years) is by definition a Vibrato arm.
Now I am aware of this it will annoy me for the rest of my life.:)

Maybe we need an EU directive (the sort that compels manufacturers to put 'Contains Nuts' on packets of peanuts ) to ensure guitar makers use the term Vibrato arm in future.
[...]
I expect you will be stuck with them , just like we are stuck with Tremelo arm. I guess It has been common (mis)usage for too long..

Just call it a Whammy bar... everyone knows what that is then...

[Patrick-Ruff]

eh, why do so many people misspell tremolo?

[buried]

Because Tremelo is trouble..

[Patrick-Ruff]

it's kinda funny how definitions are so shaky when it comes to guitar. so much so that people really stand out if they can tell the difference lol.

[shen-an-doah]

I know the difference because I'm one of the few guitarists who uses actual tremolo. I have the fanciest tremolo pedal ever (http://www.gig-fx.com/products/Chopper/chopper.htm)...

[chanhdat]

http://nguyenchanhdat.googlepages.com/new.jpg
I am learning to play acoustic guitar now, and using Tuxguitar. Please explain to me where I should use my right hand in this case ( Just becaus of the red point on the big vertical gray bar ). Thanks, and let's rock!:guitar:

[herbster]

Chanhdat, awesome! I'm learning too, and tuxguitar is a very good program to help. Using it has helped me a lot.

That looks like you're playing the D, B and E strings. If you're using a flatpick, you'd pick the D string and use your middle and ring fingers to hit the B and E strings. If you're playing fingerstyle (no pick, just fingertips/nails), then the way I would do that is thumb on D, middle and ring on B and E.

[Patrick-Ruff]

I'm going to record a new video today to show my progress and to show my current boundries.

currently I can't do sweep picking (though I haven't tried), legato (not in a big hurry for that), and I'm also stuck in a certain solo template that I can't get out of. when I solo I always bend a string and hit a bunch of blues scale shapes. I want to break out of that. so I was wondering if anyone has any suggestion, maybe just practice different scales?

[Bubba64]

I'm going to record a new video today to show my progress and to show my current boundries.

currently I can't do sweep picking (though I haven't tried), legato (not in a big hurry for that), and I'm also stuck in a certain solo template that I can't get out of. when I solo I always bend a string and hit a bunch of blues scale shapes. I want to break out of that. so I was wondering if anyone has any suggestion, maybe just practice different scales?

Are you taking lessons is my first question. Not knowing your level of abilities makes it hard to give you any other advice accept that striving to be able to play any type of scales such as minor, major, dominant, melodic minor harmonic minor, whole tone, diminished, and all the modes of any of these scales from the lowest to highest note on your guitar. There are all kinds chords with alternate flats and sharps with specialized scales that are played in them. You said a while back that you wanted to study more theory this is also a great help. I would also look for more people to listen to that will influence you to improve your technique and exspression. Good Luck

[UniverseA7X]

I'm going to record a new video today to show my progress and to show my current boundries.

currently I can't do sweep picking (though I haven't tried), legato (not in a big hurry for that), and I'm also stuck in a certain solo template that I can't get out of. when I solo I always bend a string and hit a bunch of blues scale shapes. I want to break out of that. so I was wondering if anyone has any suggestion, maybe just practice different scales?

Look up Paul Gilbert on youtube. I've gotten countless licks from him. A really cool guy as well.

[Patrick-Ruff]

Ironically I looked him up yesterday just for kicks. and no I'm not taking lessons, I'll make a video but it'll be sloppy and disorganized lol

hmm, it seems that I unintentionally play kinda like paul gilbert

[Patrick-Ruff]

ok so here's the video, it's most of my general stuff but I played it on acoustic so you can hear the true nature of my playing rather than distorted. a lot of the stuff I did on acoustic would sound great on electric but I try to make it sound atleast semi good on acoustic before I play it electric

warning: random tempo changes, picking errors, fretting errors, etc.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rhFpQOkDGY4

[Bubba64]

ok so here's the video, it's most of my general stuff but I played it on acoustic so you can hear the true nature of my playing rather than distorted. a lot of the stuff I did on acoustic would sound great on electric but I try to make it sound atleast semi good on acoustic before I play it electric

warning: random tempo changes, picking errors, fretting errors, etc.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=rhFpQOkDGY4

From looking at your video, only because I have studied with many great teachers and studied music at a college level including theory, ear training, and keyboard harmony. I would fine a good teacher it will get you to a more advanced level much quicker, which will give you the chops to be much more creative. I also come from the idea of taking lessons also because I am a multi instrumentalist I can play 3 different instruments quite proficiently besides several others adequately. To each his own though do what makes you happy, wish you happy playing.

[Patrick-Ruff]

the thing is, I can't afford a good teacher and I'm better than all of my friends (not to be arrogant or boost my ego or anything, it's just the truth.)

I'll probably have that opprotunity in college when I'm either taking a class or know other people better than me. but right now there isn't really anyone. anyways, I think I'm doing hela good for only 1 and 1/2 years.

[Bubba64]

the thing is, I can't afford a good teacher and I'm better than all of my friends (not to be arrogant or boost my ego or anything, it's just the truth.)

I'll probably have that opprotunity in college when I'm either taking a class or know other people better than me. but right now there isn't really anyone. anyways, I think I'm doing hela good for only 1 and 1/2 years.

In the end you should do what makes you happy, your original post was left as a self answering question as to what you should do to expand your soloing from specific patterns. You actually answered the question by suggesting more work on scales. this done in conjunction with a metronome for say 2-3 hrs a day, at the end of each practice session you will have actually improved and you will notice it. I was not commenting on in the end that you should take lessons because of where you are at in your development, this method of learning is a standardized method of improving efficiently and using correct technique. Good luck and keep on playing.

[Patrick-Ruff]

alright thanks for the advice man. I've always been against lessons because it is usually forced upon the person trying to learn. but in this case, since I'm actually dedicated now, lessons aren't a bad idea ;)