Hey! Guitar players, let's chat.

[tippiecup]

New to forum...(and Ubuntu), but I've strumming guitar for a couple years.
electric =Agile AL2500(an inexpensive but well built Les Paul, should show up as avatar);
acoustic =Bently thin-line cutaway (a very cheap and not well built guitar)
amp =Line 6 SpiderII 15w (small but super cool)
also =Behringer Vamp2 (also super cool)

[matthew]

Thought I'd give a quick hello before disappearing again.Glad to see you checking in...that guitar looks interesting.

[happy-and-lost]

also =Behringer Vamp2 (also super cool)

The V Amp looks insanely cool. Is it plastic or metal?

[matthew]

New to forum...(and Ubuntu), but I've strumming guitar for a couple years.
electric =Agile AL2500(an inexpensive but well built Les Paul, should show up as avatar);
acoustic =Bently thin-line cutaway (a very cheap and not well built guitar)
amp =Line 6 SpiderII 15w (small but super cool)
also =Behringer Vamp2 (also super cool)I missed your post earlier. Welcome!

I like the blue guitar.

[Patrick-Ruff]

hey matthew, I think I found a broken potentiometer . . . P1 (if you look on the schematic) could it possibly be causing all these issues? it's the potentiometer for Gain 1. it looks like it's directly in line with the input jack on the schematic, but I'm unsure.

anyways, I'd appreciate it if you could look at that through your more educated eyes ;).

[Patrick-Ruff]

ok well I'm almost 100% sure the broken potentiometer is the problem . . the problem is, I can't seem to find a replacement for it that looks like it . . . here's the writing on the back.

10k
70-103-61
0122

[multifaceted]

Wow, never knew there were so many guitarists...!

I have played for 13 years and many bands that "almost" made it.

I love all styles, and with a preference for Blues and Metal....(I know)

I play a hot rodded Gibson Les Paul with tapped 498T and a 490R.

What does everyone use to record tracks through in Linux. I used to use Line 6 hardware/software in WinXP.... but, don't miss it enough to dual boot them.

[Patrick-Ruff]

scratch that, we finally tested it while it was on. we're 80% certain the C37 is the culprit.

[matthew]

Sorry I missed you during the process...I was offline and sleeping. :) Keep us posted when you can, I'm looking forward to hearing a good success story.

[Patrick-Ruff]

hmm, perhaps you can see if C37 would cause all these issues alone, it's one weird cap, I have no idea what the voltage value is on it . . . the schematic says its it's a .0033µF cap, so it looks like it's merely there for transferring energy, and it was transferring none.

let me know if you need the schematic again, I doubt we'll be able to replace it within the next few days but I'd like to think we found the culprit here, if not there's probably more . . .

[matthew]

I don't have the schematic anymore, so please give it to me again. PM me if you want an email address to send it to. I'm not certain one cap could cause all that, but it is a start, and fixing something known to be bad will at least eliminate one problem--and perhaps lead to finding others, if they exist.

[Patrick-Ruff]

PM'ed

[Patrick-Ruff]

so tell me if you think C37 could be the issue, I'm gonna head to school.

it's also possible that R79 could be busted, one lead tested -16v, the other -0.6v

[matthew]

As I look at the schemo, C37 is there to help protect against fluctuations in the alternating current and could cause some the problems you mention. That's the one I was talking about in my post back in July.There is often a capacitor right where the AC voltage comes into the amp, going across the contacts. If it exists, this is before the filter caps and is usually a ceramic cap with a value around .0047uF. If the amp has a 3 prong, grounded cable, this won't be there. If it has a 2 prong, not grounded power cable, that is something that might be a problem as well...although I admit I am not nearly as adept at working on solid-state (non tube) amplifiers. If this cap is there, and damaged, it could cause problems.In retrospect, they can exist on amps with a three prong cord and a grounded circuit, but they just aren't as common. Anyway, if these short out, you generally blow a fuse in your amp, or in your house. Feel free to change it out. If you want to replace it, find something that can handle at least 50% more than the 117v coming out of the wall (you are in the US, right?) as this cap gets the full wall voltage. Even better, just go for a 250v, as that is a common value and should be easy to find and cheap to buy (less than $2). A ceramic cap will do fine here, one that looks like a small disk. ***FYI, this capacitor in this location is often called a "death cap," at least in the tube amp world. If it shorts out it can allow voltage on the main ground for the amp, thereby electrifying the amp chassis. That can lead to a very painful situation... This could definitely be the cause of your problems with blown fuses, etc.

R79 would affect the operation of the green led for the clean channel, and could make that channel have problems. I don't think it could do much else, though.

Back to P1, if it is bad, it could have a serious affect on the gain channel. A replacement for that should be easy to find, look for a "10k linear pot" if you want to try.

After replacing C37, if you still have trouble, look at the area around 4/5-E on the schematic, the power supply circuit, just after that cap. Check for voltage coming out of the transformer, before parts O24. Then check after them. If these are bad, it could cause what you describe. This is your rectifier, the part of the circuit that transforms alternating current from the wall into direct current for the amplifier. If the voltages at TP14 and TP15 are okay, then these are fine and you will need to move on.

[Bezmotivnik]

that guitar looks interesting.
After trying to make the speedloader concept fly for a couple of years, Rose gave up on the guitars. They've pulled the plug on them, thus the bloodletting, though a Schaller licensed aftermarket speedloader bridge kit remains in production.

$20 MSRP proprietary strings might have had something to do with it, plus the dubious engineering of the whole concept. It works fine, but saves little labor and the way the coarse tuning is achieved seems headed for much wear and early failure.

It's an interesting curiosity axe...if BLUE. I would have had to pay 50% more for another color, though.
:rolleyes:

[matthew]

After trying to make the speedloader concept fly for a couple of years, Rose gave up on the guitars.

$20 MSRP proprietary strings might have had something to do with it, plus the dubious engineering of the whole concept.I saw a couple of speedloader equipped guitars some time back and thought exactly this...it's also the reason I never gave Steinberger (sp?) more than a passing thought. I played my friend's headless bass once and it played nicely and all, but after a few years just finding strings became an ordeal for him.

I have still never owned a blue guitar. I've had red, natural, black, yellow, cream, and even transparent cherry sunburst, but never blue. Hmm...well, maybe if I found one in a sky blue that played beautifully, sounded stellar and was the perfect price. :)

[23meg]

After months of hesitation, I bought a Boss OD-3 today. Sounds very similar to some Tubescreamers, and cascades very well with the SD-1 in front of my Vox AC30.

http://i21.tinypic.com/zkgv3s.jpg

[Patrick-Ruff]

ok, matthew, could you possibly help me find a repolacement cap for C37? it's .0037µF, but I have no idea what the voltage is :P might as well replace R79 as well, that's probably why the green LED doesn't turn off and the red doesn't turn on.

edit: oh, so look for .0037µF caps that have 240+ volts?

[Armadillo Kilr]

im too lazy to read the latest post, but ill soon read the rest when i have the time. i want to figure recording onto the computer to make something happen. i have a gibson les paul with a sunburst finish. i used to have a fender telecaster but traded that in for the les paul. i regret it though because i miss the strat's feel and sound. ill post pics soon:guitar:

[Armadillo Kilr]

btw i have a crappy ibanez amp with a digitech RP300 multi-effects pedal. the best i can do right now is use a line-in recording mp3 player and use its WINDOWS-BASED program to convert it to mp3 :( i dont know what to do with linux when it comes to recording

[Fitzy_oz]

After months of hesitation, I bought a Boss OD-3 today. Sounds very similar to some Tubescreamers, and cascades very well with the SD-1 in front of my Vox AC30.

http://i21.tinypic.com/zkgv3s.jpg

There not bad, but i have never found a substitue for the old ts-9... I don't really need either anymore as the Mesa Boogie DC2 that i use pumps out a really nice tube driven distortion of it's own. When i was using an AC30 is used an Ibanez Tubescreamer with it and it was magic, I had an OD-1 one many many years ago and it was reasonable... On another note, can anyone recommend replacement hardware (talipiece, bridge/saddles) for epiphone guitars? The hardware on the epiphone sucks, great guitar and it plays beautifully for what i paid for it but the hardware (don't even get me started on the wiring) is low grade and already corroding, and given that I gig with it 5 nights a week, it needs to take a beating...

[Patrick-Ruff]

matthew, would this be a suitable replacement for the C37?

0.1µF Metallized Polyester Film Capacitor (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102589&cp=2032058.2032230.2032267&cp=2032058.2032230&f=Taxonomy%2FRSK%2F2032267&categoryId=2032267&kwCatId=2032058&kw=250v&parentPage=searchr)

and

this (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062332&cp) for the R79?

[nabilch]

hi couldnt read the all posts, i have JACKSON DKMG, N A TELECASTER

[Chilongola]

Hi guys read almost every post. Bought myself a japenese made accoustic in 1972. I still play it today. Would never give it up - very sentimental value. Used to play and someone who is gone (passed away) used to sing. Had a few tapes but our son upon reaching 13 started taping and recorded over - all lost....

Sorry bout the sad part. But really guys, some great stories and remarks. Keep going....

[Shazaam]

My cheap hacked together setup..
Japanese Strat modified with an EMG David Gilmore active pickups/pickguard kit (where the hell do you stuff a 9 volt battery in the cavity lol) into a Mesa Boogie V-Twin preamp or a Hafler T2 tube preamp (raspy overdrive). Digitech 256xl, BBE 462, dbx160a, and an ADA Microcab patched into a Samson mixer out to a Samson Servo-240 and run through a pair of Alesis Monitor One's. Old I know but it sounds sweet. I also have a Korg X3 patched into the mixer.
Other axes- Ibenez RG with 2 humbuckers with a single in the middle, a Mexican Tele, and an Epiphone Bass into a Fender BXR 100.
I have to say that the Japanese Strat is my favorite.

[shen-an-doah]

On another note, can anyone recommend replacement hardware (talipiece, bridge/saddles) for epiphone guitars? The hardware on the epiphone sucks, great guitar and it plays beautifully for what i paid for it but the hardware (don't even get me started on the wiring) is low grade and already corroding, and given that I gig with it 5 nights a week, it needs to take a beating...

I get all my replacement parts from Stewart MacDonald (http://www.stewmac.com). Shipping from the US is expensive, obviously, but the prices and quality are excellent.

[matthew]

After months of hesitation, I bought a Boss OD-3 today. Sounds very similar to some Tubescreamers, and cascades very well with the SD-1 in front of my Vox AC30.Cool! I have at least 10 Boss pedals and have been rarely disappointed. I don't have this one, though. I'm glad to get your thoughts.
ok, matthew, could you possibly help me find a repolacement cap for C37? it's .0037µF, but I have no idea what the voltage is :P might as well replace R79 as well, that's probably why the green LED doesn't turn off and the red doesn't turn on.

edit: oh, so look for .0037µF caps that have 240+ volts? matthew, would this be a suitable replacement for the C37?

0.1µF Metallized Polyester Film Capacitor (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102589&cp=2032058.2032230.2032267&cp=2032058.2032230&f=Taxonomy%2FRSK%2F2032267&categoryId=2032267&kwCatId=2032058&kw=250v&parentPage=searchr)

and

this (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062332&cp) for the R79?This cap (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2102418&cp=2032058.2032230.2032267&allCount=100&fbn=Type%2FCeramic+Disc+Capacitors&f=PAD%2FProduct+Type%2FCeramic+Disc+Capacitors&fbc=1&parentPage=family) would be a better choice. The value is close enough for this application and the voltage rating is higher than you need, plus, it's cheap. The resistor you chose looks fine.


Welcome to the others who just joined us in the thread. I'm especially interested to see those promised pics. Oh, and to echo shen-an-doah, I have ordered from that company several times with good results.

[shen-an-doah]

Oh, and to echo shen-an-doah, I have ordered from that company several times with good results.

I'd also recommend signing up to their "Trade Secrets" newsletter. It's obviously done as a way to advertise their products, but the info it gives is great all the same.

http://www.stewmac.com/newsletter

[Patrick-Ruff]

thanks matthew, I think we're going to test it again today just to make sure we didn't miss anything, then we'll order the parts.

[happy-and-lost]

After months of hesitation, I bought a Boss OD-3 today. Sounds very similar to some Tubescreamers, and cascades very well with the SD-1 in front of my Vox AC30.

Looks nice. I just got one of these little beauties:

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/I/516FZX2M32L._AA280_.jpg

Which I've had even more fun with today than I did with my CryBaby. It finally completes (well, maybe just one or two more effects...) my sound. It's exactly what I've been looking for.

My setup is now:

http://www.leadguitars.fr/images/S_Fender_Classic_72%20Tele%20Deluxe.jpg

- Fender Telecaster '72 Deluxe
- Vox Valvetronix XL amp (16 built in effects, 11 amp mods)
- Big Muff Pi
- CryBaby Wah
- Boss DD3 Delay
- Behringer Chorus
- Behringer Acoustic Modeler

Now all I need is a proper band...

[matthew]

happy: nice!!

I don't have a current list of effects, and I'm not in a band these days, so some of my stuff is sitting in boxes at the moment. However, I have a really old web page (http://matthewhelmke.com/guitar-amp/guitar.html) with a list at the bottom of my setup as it was in 1999...and some really amusing old photos of me as well.

[23meg]

Matthew, do you still have that ShredMaster?

[shen-an-doah]

Matthew, do you still have that ShredMaster?

I've got one too ^_^

[Vague]

I don't have a current list of effects, and I'm not in a band these days, so some of my stuff is sitting in boxes at the moment. However, I have a really old web page (http://matthewhelmke.com/guitar-amp/guitar.html) with a list at the bottom of my setup as it was in 1999...and some really amusing old photos of me as well.

Nice. I'd really love to have one of those DM-2s at some point.

[Patrick-Ruff]

oh great. one of my friends took a look at that cap we found and said that it was a power-filter cap. and that it was supposed to not let power flow through (or something?) either way, he said what we got was normal . . . I'm having a hard time believing it but he seems to really know his stuff.

so I don't know, if this is true I'm not sure what to start with next . . . any idea's/thoughts?

[matthew]

Matthew, do you still have that ShredMaster?Yes, and I love it. It nails that 1980s metal sound and is also good for hard rock and even rockier blues. It won't do new metal sounds, though.

Nice. I'd really love to have one of those DM-2s at some point.That might be my all-time favorite pedal, ever. It is one of the few pedals that I have to constantly remind myself not to use on every song. :) Most of the time I like to play with just about everything off, maybe one effect for a specific song, or a combination. I might use a certain setup for a chorus or something. This pedal, though, is smooth.

oh great. one of my friends took a look at that cap we found and said that it was a power-filter cap. and that it was supposed to not let power flow through (or something?) either way, he said what we got was normal . . . I'm having a hard time believing it but he seems to really know his stuff.

so I don't know, if this is true I'm not sure what to start with next . . . any idea's/thoughts?What he said is correct. This is a power supply filter cap. You said you were blowing fuses. If this cap was shorted out, that could cause this because it would be allowing power to flow through it (when it shouldn't happen at all).

I'm not there, so I can't see the circuit and its components at all. I can't tell you whether that cap is good or bad from here, but if your friend saw it and said it's fine, he's probably right.

Next? Try the next thing I recommended in my last post...go to the power transformer and make sure it is working, then the rectifier circuit, and so on. Test things bit by bit until you find something that isn't right.

[23meg]

Yes, and I love it. It nails that 1980s metal sound and is also good for hard rock and even rockier blues. It won't do new metal sounds, though.

Right... Would you consider selling it? I'm serious.

[matthew]

Right... Would you consider selling it? I'm serious.No. They are nearly impossible to find. However, if the right trade came up I might be willing to trade it for something...if you have something to offer that I might find worthwhile, send me a PM and we can discuss it.

Think about this: I have no idea what it costs to ship things between Morocco and Turkey and what the customs issues could be...

[shen-an-doah]

Right... Would you consider selling it? I'm serious.

Have you checked eBay? There's usually a couple on there...

[23meg]

Have you checked eBay? There's usually a couple on there...

I don't really want to buy from a random person at eBay, especially given that the customs can be tricky.


No. They are nearly impossible to find. However, if the right trade came up I might be willing to trade it for something...if you have something to offer that I might find worthwhile, send me a PM and we can discuss it.

Will do.

[Patrick-Ruff]

I blew one fuse because of accidently putting that C40 in backwards . . . (it's a power filter cap too . . . )

anyways, my friend wants me to test TP14 and TP15 first, so after I get the C37 back I'll do that.

[Patrick-Ruff]

wow . . . nothing in 5 days . . . what's up all?

[matthew]

I decided 23meg can have my ShredMaster when he can pry it from my cold, dead hands. ;) LOL I didn't realize how attached I was to that pedal until I contemplated selling/trading it away. Sigh, I can be so silly sometimes.

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/reviews/images/12_1013_3921.jpg

[shen-an-doah]

I decided 23meg can have my ShredMaster when he can pry it from my cold, dead hands. ;) LOL I didn't realize how attached I was to that pedal until I contemplated selling/trading it away. Sigh, I can be so silly sometimes.

http://www.ultimate-guitar.com/reviews/images/12_1013_3921.jpg

Good choice ;)

[Patrick-Ruff]

matthew, if you're interested to know my progress on this amp, look at my latest post in this (http://music-electronics-forum.com/showthread.php?t=3546) thread.

[matthew]

Good, that's progress. Those diodes are also pretty inexpensive and shouldn't be hard to find.

[penguin4]

This may be a odd message for this thread, but I though I will still put it across.

I am a beginner in learning Guitar.

Just wanted to know what is

a. Guitar Set up?
b. Where do I go for it?
c. How much does it cost?
d. Why would my new guitar need new strings?

[matthew]

I am a beginner in learning Guitar.Welcome to the family! :)
a. Guitar Set up?
b. Where do I go for it?I would start at a local guitar shop, especially if you know of a mom & pop store.

If you are a little brave and good with your hands, buy this book (http://www.amazon.com/Guitar-Player-Repair-Guide-Erlewine/dp/0879302917) instead...in fact, it's not a bad idea to read it even if you never do any of the work yourself.
c. How much does it cost?It can vary widely. Acoustic/electric? Old/new? 6/12 strings? Does it need lots of work, or just a minor adjustment.
d. Why would my new guitar need new strings?Corrosion from lots of people playing it in the store, or even just from exposure to humid air for a while. Strings are consumables...think of them as food for the guitar. They are a vital part of the guitar's sound. Changing them regularly keeps the guitar sounding good (and helps prevent you from breaking them in front of people...). If you are having a guitar set up for you for the first time, putting new strings on the guitar (even if it is a new one) is usually a good idea.

[23meg]

I decided 23meg can have my ShredMaster when he can pry it from my cold, dead hands. ;) LOL I didn't realize how attached I was to that pedal until I contemplated selling/trading it away. Sigh, I can be so silly sometimes.


Bad fortune. Upon reading your PM, I spent my cash on a practice amp as a present for my partner (to whom I'm teaching guitar).

In other news, I've gigged twice in the last week with the OD-3 + SD-1 combination, and am really digging it. With the OD-3 at low drive and the SD-1 at just past 12 o'clock, the "stacked" overdrive tone through the AC30 is just my cup of tea. I'm always looking for new sounds, but for the drive department it looks like I'll settle on this for quite a while.

[matthew]

I haven't used the OD-3, but I have an SD-1 and it is a very good pedal. I'm glad you found a setup that is working. If I ever get a line on another ShredMaster, I promise to let you know immediately and give you first shot at it.

[SuperDuck]

You guys play them git-fiddles wit too many strings. ;)

I used to have five but sold most of them for the Warwick. It was worth it!
http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a92/MichaelEHermes/PICT0217.jpg

[matthew]

You guys play them git-fiddles wit too many strings. ;)

I used to have five but sold most of them for the Warwick. It was worth it!
Nice! A couple of our other staff are bass players (I have one and play it as well, shh!).

[shen-an-doah]

Nice! A couple of our other staff are bass players (I have one and play it as well, shh!).

I play bass too. I'm multi-talented!

[Patrick-Ruff]

yeah, I'm not sure if that diode D25 explains everything. I've been told that something interfearing with V+ explains almost everything I'm experiencing, if not everything.

so I ordered three of these (http://www.alliedelec.com/Search/ProductDetail.asp?SKU=349-0102&SEARCH=&MPN=1N5353B&DESC=1N5353B&R=349%2D0102&sid=47042D003041617F#) I'm sure they're the right ones, the model number is only off by one number . . . mine is a 1N5353 and the one I boguht is a 1N5353B (looks to have the same capabilities, looks exactly the same.)

hope it gets here soon! :)

[fast eddie]

Hi guys,

I have just put Ubuntu Studio on to a spare pc with the idea of recording myself etc.

Can I use it to create backing tracks?

I am looking to be able to remove the vocals and guitar from .wav or .flac files so I can practice with and play along with - assuming that this doesn't infringe on the artist copyright as I will not be using them in public. I am fairly new to playing and am no where near good enough to play anywhere other than my music room :(.

Thanks for the help

[Zimmer]

Hi guys,

I have just put Ubuntu Studio on to a spare pc with the idea of recording myself etc.

Can I use it to create backing tracks?

I am looking to be able to remove the vocals and guitar from .wav or .flac files so I can practice with and play along with - assuming that this doesn't infringe on the artist copyright as I will not be using them in public. I am fairly new to playing and am no where near good enough to play anywhere other than my music room :(.

Thanks for the help

Not checked this out yet (have to dash out now) but if you do, let us know if it works...

http://www.mactips.org/archives/category/audacity-tips/

oh... and this may be of help generally..
http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

[Patrick-Ruff]

ok so matthew those parts will be here thursday (just thought I'd give you something to look forward to, haha.) I'll let you know how it goes unless I start shredding uncontrollably for hours ;).

[matthew]

Not checked this out yet (have to dash out now) but if you do, let us know if it works...

http://www.mactips.org/archives/category/audacity-tips/

oh... and this may be of help generally..
http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
Great links! Thanks for posting them.
ok so matthew those parts will be here thursday (just thought I'd give you something to look forward to, haha.) I'll let you know how it goes unless I start shredding uncontrollably for hours ;).I'm waiting on pins and needles. :)

[fast eddie]

Not checked this out yet (have to dash out now) but if you do, let us know if it works...

http://www.mactips.org/archives/category/audacity-tips/

oh... and this may be of help generally..
http://audacityteam.org/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

Thanks for that.

I will have a look when I get home form work

[Patrick-Ruff]

hmm, I keep getting this feeling that there isn't much left for guitar that hasn't been done before (many times) . . . is this a reality or is my lack of an electric guitar or a worth imagination to blame? (not saying that effects will cure this little predicament but you know what I mean . . )

just some random though.

so I'm counting down the day to that diode, 2 more days . . hopefully it's the problem :P.

[sageb1]

Is it possible to get a electric guitar with a black body?:guitar:

[Patrick-Ruff]

of course . . . have you ever been to www.musiciansfriend.com or www.guitarcenter.com?

take a gander at those guitars . . .

[Dimitriid]

I need some advise right now.

My Digitech RP200 died recently. It might have some kind of remedy to it though the ac power thing wont work unless I push it upwards really really hard, goes off as soon as I let go. Now It might be repairable but im not sure if its that worth it since I cant afford to have it fail ( I plan on using it on live shows as I have in the past so it has to work, at all times ). Besides its a bit well, old. I got it back in 2001.

My amp however, that is much older, its a peavy studio 112 ( 65 watts amp ) I had this thing for over 10 years. Its also aging at this point, it has a lot of problems and I have to literally bang it from time to time to get signal. Also all knobs are dirty and some of them are flatout failing too at this point, making equalization really annoying. This wasn't a problem since I used to connect to the "loop" channel with the digitech since it has those amp simulator things and my sound was decent enough ( although I did use the amp normal on live set up, at high volume those amp presets were still no match ).

So im looking into buying a effects processor and possibly a new amp. I have a budget of maybe $400 but I'd like to keep it at $200-300 if possible. Ive been looking at some amps and it looks like the 'In' thing right now is amps with effect processing. This might work out good for me cause I really only use a few. I need a good distortion, a good chorus and maybe a half decent delay and harmonizer.

My thing is metal and I mean that. Jackson and B.C. Rich are the only two brands Id play :guitar: ( Ok maybe a washburn if im in the mood, or a PRS or Carvin if I want some half metal half jazz songs on my projects ) so a really good distortion is my number 1 priority. I need a good size amp, I might need it for small clubs so it has to be at least 60watts. Possibly up to a 100. A stack would be ideal but id settle for a combo with the right price.

The thing is that I really want a noise gate. I really crank up distortion and I usually put a ton of chorus too when playing but without a noise gate or at least a volume pedal its just too annoying.

So far amps that caught my eye are Crate, Peavy and Line 6. A processor that caught my eye is the "ugrade" to the one I had: DigiTech RP250. Looks like the same only improved amp modeling and USB connectivity. One of those Line 6 spider models however ( I like the 75 watts combo one ) would save me a ton of money but no Noisegate, no volume pedal. A stand alone noisegate looks expensive. A volume pedal might work however its not an ideal solution ( the things I play require many things that just dont sound as good on a pedal as fast as I try to be with my foot, its still just not doable without noisegate )

But the thing is that now I just cant seem to find a good amp that only gives me decent sound but no effects! All 60+watt amps nowaday are either crazy expensive things or have effects already, therefore upping the price in the process.

Can you guys offer advise on what to do?

[Patrick-Ruff]

well, I tend to drift towards the fix all this stuff yourself and then see where you're at kind of thing.

huge learning curve, but it's worth it in the long run.

[matthew]

hmm, I keep getting this feeling that there isn't much left for guitar that hasn't been done before (many times) . . . is this a reality or is my lack of an electric guitar or a worth imagination to blame? (not saying that effects will cure this little predicament but you know what I mean . . )

just some random though.

so I'm counting down the day to that diode, 2 more days . . hopefully it's the problem :P.The guitar is still a very new instrument compared to most, and I don't really think its range has been fully explored. There are a lot of creative people. I don't know that we will have another Hendrix come along and completely change the world's thinking about whether or not there are limits to what can be done...that was revolutionary. I don't think we will have another Les Paul come around and completely change the instrument by inventing about 85% of all of the effects in use today. However, each player who learns the instrument well enough to really express himself and play with feeling tends to have little bits in his technique that are unique. That's why someone like Eric Clapton always sounds like himself regardless of what gear he is using. It is also why I think the guitar offers more freedom than most instruments; it is not old enough to have an established "right way" to do everything (well, that and it tends to be played by rebels, but that's a different post altogether :) ).

[matthew]

So im looking into buying a effects processor and possibly a new amp. I have a budget of maybe $400 but I'd like to keep it at $200-300 if possible.

But the thing is that now I just cant seem to find a good amp that only gives me decent sound but no effects! All 60+watt amps nowaday are either crazy expensive things or have effects already, therefore upping the price in the process.

Can you guys offer advise on what to do?With that sort of budget, there isn't a lot of gear I would recommend. If you can do it, I would recommend making do with what you have for the moment and try to save up at least $500 or so, then shop around for a good, used amp that has the sound you like. When it's time, take your guitar with you to the shops and ask to plug it in to the amp to see how your axe sounds with that amp. If they are sure you are serious about buying, almost any store will welcome this...if they don't, I would walk away.

I used to buy all my effects on eBay and from pawn shops. You have to shop around, you have to dig and look at everything instead of looking for one specific item, but with patience and time you can find some screaming deals.

[yeehawjared]

I just found this thread... been a long time linux / ubuntu user.

Everyone should check out my newly-launched site for guitar players:
http://www.guitarvideotabs.com

It's kind of like a "youtube for guitar players" with accurate tablature. Feel free to digg it if you like it. Thanks for checking it out... see ya guys. :)

[matthew]

I just found this thread... been a long time linux / ubuntu user.

Everyone should check out my newly-launched site for guitar players:
http://www.guitarvideotabs.com

It's kind of like a "youtube for guitar players" with accurate tablature. Feel free to digg it if you like it. Thanks for checking it out... see ya guys. :)That's your site? Awesome!! (goes away to have some fun)

[Patrick-Ruff]

nice, I'll check it out later. lots of homework. I tried some dunlop 1.0mm picks, I prefer .60, cleaner sound and I can pick faster with them.

MATTHEW, my parts come tomorrow! nice avatar by the way.

[Kingsley]

Anybody here know how to play Jimi Hendrix' Pali Gap? It's my favorite guitar solo. :guitar:

[Patrick-Ruff]

never heard it.

[Patrick-Ruff]

matthew, the amp is fixed and it sounds GREAT. that gain 1 pot is a bit loose though, I think I might swap it with the reverb one (since it still works but it's just not very sturdy, I don't use the reverb too often so it's more plausable.

anyways, it's fixed, I'm rockin out. I wont get my homework done tonight and my neighbors will hate me :D.

[matthew]

Congrats, Patrick! That's awesome.

[Patrick-Ruff]

yeah it sounds amazing :). the gain 1 pot is a little loose, but it's all good (I need a new input cable though :P)

[Patrick-Ruff]

matthew: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mvm4eKwn4gs

[matthew]

matthew: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mvm4eKwn4gsNice!

[Patrick-Ruff]

I'm gonna do another one soon, but with overdrive on :). looks like all my anal retentive analysis of my technique payed off :D.

[DaveTheAve]

Not to be a pain or anything but I'm not getting any responces and I wish to learn the guitar. Please suggest a good learning program for linux to me:

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=576556

[Patrick-Ruff]

I don't think there is a program that can satisfy your needs.

I suggest that you learn as much as you can from your friends, videos online, and read as much as you can.

but honestly, if you can't do that, and/or if you're not satisfied with that, and you don't have the motivation to learn by yourself . . . then guitar is definitely not for you . . .

[Patrick-Ruff]

so I've been working on making a full-length instrumental song, it might just be rhythm and guitar, don't know if I can get a bassist and a drummer to help. any tips?

[Patrick-Ruff]

anyone? :P

[shen-an-doah]

I can highly recommend Hydrogen for drum tracks.

[Patrick-Ruff]

well I'm talking the actual composition of the song, guitar wise. rhythm and lead kind of thing. I have a drummer that I can have help me if I want . . .

[tropcky]

sup guys what a cool thread for guitar players i am tropcky and i play acoustic guitar any way i just came 2 say hey have a nice chat i mean thread talkin

[Patrick-Ruff]

well I'm talking about the actual composition of the song . . . rhythm and lead sort of thing. if I need the drums I can just ask my friend. I'm planning on playing a song for the talent show, really speedy but with really classic-rock-like solo's. but I want to try to make something that I can do without rhythm or drums backing it up (I don't like it when they change tempo or when I change tempo and they don't keep up, that sort of thing.)

[Patrick-Ruff]

well I'm talking about the actual composition of the song . . . rhythm and lead sort of thing. if I need the drums I can just ask my friend. I'm planning on playing a song for the talent show, really speedy but with really classic-rock-like solo's. but I want to try to make something that I can do without rhythm or drums backing it up (I don't like it when they change tempo or when I change tempo and they don't keep up, that sort of thing.)

[Patrick-Ruff]

wow sorry, my internet was messing up and it made me think I hadn't posted that at all.

[Patrick-Ruff]

guess composition isn't a big topic here eh?

[D-EJ915]

I haven't changed the strings on my flying V in a few months, the only part of them which isn't black is behind the nut.

Still stays in tune well and sounds good.

[shen-an-doah]

guess composition isn't a big topic here eh?

I seem to have kinda lost my muse when it comes to composition recently :(

[matthew]

guess composition isn't a big topic here eh?To be honest, improvisation is my strength, not composition.

I haven't changed the strings on my flying V in a few months, the only part of them which isn't black is behind the nut.

Still stays in tune well and sounds good.As long as they are only darkened, and not covered with little black globs of dirt and skin oil, they should be okay. Some people prefer the slightly mellower tone of aged strings.

[Tom Mann]

My main guitar is now my Schecter Omen 7 :)

[Patrick-Ruff]

this is funny, 4-5 people recently have posted like they posted here before . . . I don't remember any of them :)

[matthew]

I'm just glad to hang out a little with fellow guitar lovers.

BTW, Tom, do you have any pics of that Schecter?

[cowkiller]

Hi there guitar lovers, here's another one among you. ^^
I've got a ESP H-101, and I'm not an usual fan of the guitar.....

I love much more guitarists like Buzz osbourne, or the Mastodon guitarist, than guitar heroes (Satriani,.... nahh whatever alike) wich I totally dislike. I like creative guitarists and musician, not fast or tech ones.

I also enjoy a lot jamming with other people... it doesn't matter the style, the instruments or the amount of noise :D
The point is having fun, isn't it?

[matthew]

I also enjoy a lot jamming with other people... it doesn't matter the style, the instruments or the amount of noise :D
The point is having fun, isn't it?

I agree with this...and welcome!

[cowkiller]

I agree with this...and welcome!

Thank you... hope you can prove it if I (hopefully) can make true one of my dreams and spend some days ejoying Morocco beaches :lolflag:


....someday.....someway.....

[matthew]

I have four guitars, a bass, and a mandolin sitting here ready. Let me know if you make it across the Straits of Gibraltar and we can try to get together somewhere. :) (okay, I don't play the mandolin well enough to offer to jam with it...)

[shen-an-doah]

I love much more guitarists like Buzz osbourne, or the Mastodon guitarist, than guitar heroes (Satriani,.... nahh whatever alike) wich I totally dislike. I like creative guitarists and musician, not fast or tech ones.

Ah, a man after my own heart.

Slow and grooving > fast and technical.

In fact I'm listening to The Melvins right now :D

[Nunu]

Hi Guys

I to play the Guitar Got a Cort strat 2t with custome Pickups. Washburn acoustic and a phil pro bass. Also got a hughs & Kettner Metroverb and ZOOM 707 effect. :guitar:

[D-EJ915]

My main guitar is now my Schecter Omen 7 :)
Awesome, 7-strings really are great =3 Ever been to sevenstring.org?
this is funny, 4-5 people recently have posted like they posted here before . . . I don't remember any of them :)Heh, does it matter?

Here are mine:
V-250: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/enthauptet/gits/V250_floor.jpg
VB-200: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/enthauptet/gits/viperbiotch.jpg
H-207: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/enthauptet/gits/h207_sep26_1.jpg

[matthew]

Hi Guys

I to play the Guitar Got a Cort strat 2t with custome Pickups. Washburn acoustic and a phil pro bass. Also got a hughs & Kettner Metroverb and ZOOM 707 effect. :guitar:Nice! Welcome to the thread.

Here are mine:
V-250: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/enthauptet/gits/V250_floor.jpg
VB-200: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/enthauptet/gits/viperbiotch.jpg
H-207: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v104/enthauptet/gits/h207_sep26_1.jpgSweet stuff you have there. Thanks for sharing the pics!

[Nunu]

Dose any one here know where i can find some decent tabs for Plain Whit T's Delilah?

[Patrick-Ruff]

if it's not on ultimate guitar you wont find it anywhere unless you buy a tab book or something.

D-EJ915, I like the red one.

[Patrick-Ruff]

I have four guitars, a bass, and a mandolin sitting here ready. Let me know if you make it across the Straits of Gibraltar and we can try to get together somewhere. :) (okay, I don't play the mandolin well enough to offer to jam with it...)

I like jamming too. last time I jammed (about two weeks ago) it was me on lead, my friend on rhythm, and my other friend on drums . . . lets just say it was REALLY loud. two line6 half stacks with 150 watt heads and a drumset in the same room, pretty small room too . . .

it was pretty fun. I'm trying to break away from my most common improvisations (the blues scale)

[Hob Goblin]

i just started but i can play every rose has a thorn,by Poison:guitar::guitar:

[paul cooke]

I can highly recommend Hydrogen for drum tracks.

I put an updated Blues box set of patterns on their forum not so long ago... it has an example slow blues shuffle already set up to play.

http://www.hydrogen-music.org/forum/?action=show_thread&thread=362&fid=8&page=1

have fun... :)

[paul cooke]

uh, rubber gloves ? ;). I mean seriously, can that sort of a shock, 65 watts, really fly through a RUBBER glove? and an insulated probe?

I'm just curious here, I've never heard anyone explain something like this with so much caution. I do recognise the danger here, but can a shock like that REALLY pass through that much rubber?

Working with any voltage above 28 Volts DC, you should always keep one hand in your pocket... that way, the current does NOT go across your heart if you do accidentally touch anything live...

I've only ever worn rubber gloves when working on RADAR transmitter power supplies or HT supplies for cathode ray tubes. 40 kilo volts can throw you clean across a room... Normally, I used to work using one hand and standing on a rubber mat and with insulated probes and tools... that's when things were on and we were adjusting them... we always had a safety man present to kill the power if there was a problem.

Remember kids, never work with exposed mains voltages when you're on your own...

[SupraBlur]

My main axe is a Gibson SG, also have an Ibanez acoustic and a Fender J-Bass. Gear consists of the PodXT, a Line6 2x10" (forgot which model, it's loud enough for bigger cafe shows though), and a Crate 1x10" bass amp. I actually bought my current computer for the sole purpose of recording, and ended up with Ubuntu, so I'm on the journey to learn Ardour. =P

-Ray

[hangar_18]

any megadeth fans here? ):P

[Patrick-Ruff]

yes, big one here

[hangar_18]

cool \\:D/

so what software do ubuntu metalheads use to thrash?
ages ago i tried creox but it wasnt very good..
in xp i used amplitube 2, wonder if there is sth similar :-k

[Patrick-Ruff]

I don't use ubuntu :P. at the moment osx dominates all when it comes to programs like amplitube and such

[Patrick-Ruff]

hey everyone . . . I made a new video . . . its mostly shredding but I'd like to know what you guys think and if you have any technique suggestions ;).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQBY9bEYNFE

[Patrick-Ruff]

matthew, anyone . . . what have you been up to guitar-wise lately?

[matthew]

I've been really busy at work and with my kids...I think I have played a total of 30 or 40 minutes in the last two weeks. Sigh. I remember when that was a bad day. ;)

I did check out your clip. You are improving. Next, work on your phrasing. See if you can play phrases that sound like the guitar is singing them. That is not an easy skill, but it makes a guitarist much, much more enjoyable. A good solo is one that a person can sing/hum along with.

[Patrick-Ruff]

thanks for the tip, along with 'phrasing' I'll be working on getting my tempo even/perfect

[Tom Mann]

Sorry Matthew, I keep losing track of all the threads I post in:

One Schecter pic coming up.

[matthew]

Tom: Sweet! I like the recording setup, too. How hard was it adjusting to a seven string? (The extra is a low B, right?)

[Tom Mann]

Hey Matthew, it was strange at first adapting to the seventh string - I kept going to hit it instead of the sixth string when playing Metallica etc. but now I've adapted it's nice to have to be able to drop songs a bit lower.

I now have it tuned to Ab Eb Ab Db Gb Bb Eb for a darker sound.

The only thing that doesn't work in my setup on Linux (I'm running UbuntuStudio) is the prodikeys keyboard, but I have other midi keyboards so this is not an issue.

[willdex]

Hey, guys. I know this is going to be a duplicate of thread http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=274015 and I sincerely apologize for that, but please...can somebody help me with my Fender? I've got the Rose Garden, connected the StarCaster to the soundcard and can even hear the sound when I swing across the strings, but nothing shows in Rose Garden!

[Tom Mann]

As far as I know, Rosegarden only deals with imported sound, and only records MIDI, This was the last time I looked at it anyway so I could be wrong. Can you record in Ardour or Audacity?

[willdex]

I just got Ardour, but can't seem to run it. Where's the executable? I'm on Ubuntu, not on Mac, got the source with tar.bz2. Couldn't get/install it via sudo apt-get install ardour. So I went to the official site, got a copy, untared it, but no. What's the command to run it?

[voided3]

Ardour is in the repos last I checked. Make sure you have the Universe and Multiverse enabled.

[willdex]

Holy moly! I've just tried Audacity, and it's working, mate, it is working!!!

[D-EJ915]

Holy moly! I've just tried Audacity, and it's working, mate, it is working!!!
congrats haha, I love recording stuff when I'm just fooling around. I like this one where I scooped my mids and just messed around: http://media.putfile.com/new-settings

[comet]

this is what real guitarists play.. none of that lame stuff like SGs, Tele's, Martins, Les Pauls, Taylors, and so forth.. become a man with one of these babies.. and shred like you've never shred before,,

http://img3.musiciansfriend.com/dbase/pics/products/1/1/3/271113.jpg

[D-EJ915]

I dunno man, the fret access on that thing is pretty limited.

[herbster]

Just seen this thread, guys I'm going to buy a guitar and have posted here: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?p=3728312

Any info from all of you experts would be appreciated!

[Patrick-Ruff]

are you a new or experienced player?

[n3tfury]

considering his thread title says "...first guitar..." i'm going to wager new.

[herbster]

Will hold a guitar for the first time Tuesday when we go to the store! :D

[Fred_E _krugar]

I do love my Schecter, maybe you should try one of them.

http://www.schecterguitars.com/index.asp

[Patrick-Ruff]

well . . . since you're starting out . . . I'd go in the 150-200 dollar range for acoustics . . .

I'd say play on an acoustic for a year before you go to electric (if you want to go to electric.)

my first post on this forum thread was on page 20 something I think . . . and that was when I first started playing . . . 1 year later this is how good I am . . .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SQBY9bEYNFE

[herbster]

Patrick that's freakin' awesome! I would love to get to that stage. I have no intentions of battling Slash onstage or anything, I just want to "be able to play," and also the main thing for me is to have a proper, sound understanding of music, how to read it, understand notes and chords, all that stuff-- and guitar is something I'm very interested in so there's no forcing myself to learn, it's just a discipline I'm excited to take up :)

Again, really good stuff Patrick. I'm actually going to the stores tomorrow morning with my friend to find a good one, then Wednesday's my birthday and she comes home with me to start the journey :D

[Patrick-Ruff]

I still have a long way to go, I'm at the point where I'm perfecting my technique and learning how to read music (and compose music.)

the first thing you'll want to learn how to read is guitar taberature (which is the easiest form of music for guitar.)

but don't go into that too fast, you might want to buy a book, read as much as you can online, look at lots of videos, etc.

most of all, be patient. there will be days where you wont want to play at all, but those will pass.

[herbster]

Patrick, I've been reading like crazy, studying notation and tablature. I love that by learning the guitar I'm learning a lot more, and all stuff that I want to learn and understand.

Here's some pics! :D

[matthew]

Nice Takamine. Congrats!

[Patrick-Ruff]

oh nice, cutaways are nice. that looks like a good guitar, also . . . general tip. make sure you get light strings, it's a lot easier on the learning process in general.

[paul cooke]

here's my pride and joy:

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w9/paulcooke100/IMGP0484vert.jpg

[matthew]

Paul: sweet Jazz Bass! I love the maple neck and black inlays--very unique.

[happy-and-lost]

Nice bass! Did you change the knobs and pickups, or are they fitted as standard on that model?

[D-EJ915]

awesome jbass, I love maple fretboards

[paul cooke]

Nice bass! Did you change the knobs and pickups, or are they fitted as standard on that model?

the pickups are as supplied... the knobs have been replaced, the original chrome knurled ones are rather ugly and I couldn't easily tell what the vol and tone pots were set to.

I'm looking at replacing the bridge with a Badass II

This folks is a Squier... I'd consider this to be the equal or maybe better than the low end Fenders coming off the production line...

My only problem may come from people with a chip on their shoulder about Squiers not being "professional" basses...

[matthew]

I'm looking at replacing the bridge with a Badass II

This folks is a Squier... I'd consider this to be the equal or maybe better than the low end Fenders coming off the production line...

My only problem may come from people with a chip on their shoulder about Squiers not being "professional" basses...I have a Badass II on my Washburn bass and it is a great bridge.

Oh, and one of my favorite guitars among those I own is a Squier Starfire. Forget the names on the headstocks, play the guitar and judge each one on build quality, feel, playability, and especially tone.

[D-EJ915]

This folks is a Squier... I'd consider this to be the equal or maybe better than the low end Fenders coming off the production line...

My only problem may come from people with a chip on their shoulder about Squiers not being "professional" basses...
Fit & finish might not be the best and a lot have cheap wood, but you can get a really awesome Squier, epiphone is the brand who uses firewood the most, lol.

[keyboardashtray]

Man, I miss OLGA. When I was playing a lot I could find pretty much any song chords there.

I don't look for many lately, but when I do, it's always a messy search, redirects and sites full of messy javascript, too many listings, several clicks to get to the result.

So what is the definitive tab/chord search site lately?

[matthew]

Oh, man. OLGA (http://www.olga.net/) was awesome. I used to use it and even contributed a few songs back when it was up. This guy (http://www.mothership.co.za/music.htm) in South Africa has a full archive of the original available, but it obviously hasn't been updated in years.

This is the best I've found recently, but I can usually pick thing out by ear now, so I haven't really looked for a long time...

http://www.azchords.com/

[keyboardashtray]

Oh, man. OLGA (http://www.olga.net/) was awesome. I used to use it and even contributed a few songs back when it was up. This guy (http://www.mothership.co.za/music.htm) in South Africa has a full archive of the original available, but it obviously hasn't been updated in years.

This is the best I've found recently, but I can usually pick thing out by ear now, so I haven't really looked for a long time...

http://www.azchords.com/

Score - I'm mostly into the older stuff anyway. That AZ chords is sweet too, nice clean results. Bookmarked :twisted:

Thanks man!

[paul cooke]

Man, I miss OLGA. When I was playing a lot I could find pretty much any song chords there.

I don't look for many lately, but when I do, it's always a messy search, redirects and sites full of messy javascript, too many listings, several clicks to get to the result.

So what is the definitive tab/chord search site lately?

I use Bassmasta for Bass tab

http://www.bassmasta.net/

I'm not keen on tab though as the rhythm info is missing...

[herbster]

Well I've been practicing since Friday and me finguhs be hoitin'! ;) How long does it take to develop the calluses if practicing for 1 hour/day from the start? I am picking up the guitar and practicing chords every half an hour or so, but I can't go for more than 5-10 mins at most, my fingertips are burning, hehe.

Man I wish the strings were further apart, I can't help but barely rub another string with a few fingers on every chord, ruining the blasted thing lol. But it's a blast, I'm loving this thing and it's just practice and more practice for me :D

[matthew]

Well I've been practicing since Friday and me finguhs be hoitin'! ;) How long does it take to develop the calluses if practicing for 1 hour/day from the start?
Maybe a week or so.

[happy-and-lost]

I miss OLGA. www.ultimate-guitar.com usually does the trick for me :)

Does anyone here have the Digitech Whammy? I'm thinking of getting one, would you guys recommend it?

[ICEcoffee]

I have a Variax 700 electric, a Yamaha Pacifica 112 and a Squire strat. Moving down the chain I have my Line 6 PodXT, which I think is a cool bit of kit, moving on through to either my Vox VR30 ot Marshal GFX100 amps.

I'm an Ubuntu newbie, and beginner to moderate guitar player.

I wonder if Linux has some cool free software for guitarists?

[herbster]

ICEcoffee,

You should google tuxguitar, it's like Guitar Pro for linux, automatically loads all Guitar Pro files and plays them with no issues like sometimes are encountered with Guitar Pro via Wine. I just loaded some tabs into it and it displays and plays them just fine.

[ICEcoffee]

hey Herbster, thanks, I'll give that a try.

[Lothas]

Hey, which guitar tuner would work with a USB microphone?

[Patrick-Ruff]

AP tuner, it's the best I've seen but it's only on windows I think . .

[Patrick-Ruff]

Well I've been practicing since Friday and me finguhs be hoitin'! ;) How long does it take to develop the calluses if practicing for 1 hour/day from the start? I am picking up the guitar and practicing chords every half an hour or so, but I can't go for more than 5-10 mins at most, my fingertips are burning, hehe.

Man I wish the strings were further apart, I can't help but barely rub another string with a few fingers on every chord, ruining the blasted thing lol. But it's a blast, I'm loving this thing and it's just practice and more practice for me :D

hah don't worry about that too much, eventually you get the hang of it. . . it took me a month to develop calluses that wouldn't hurt, and I still hurt after extensive playing, but eventually it gets to the point where you can hurt but still pull off what you're trying to do . . .

[herbster]

Patrick, thanks for that, I gotta tell you that's very encouraging to know :) I've got the D, A and G chords going pretty good now. That F is some acrobatic insanity, lol :D

[Patrick-Ruff]

yeah took me like 3-4 months to get that down after I found out about it . . .basically you're gonna have to get a sort of a semi-callus on the whole side of your index finger . . . welcome to barre chords my friend.

just be happy you didn't learn on a classical guitar with steel strings like me . . . fat neck and high action = insane pain . . . .

[herbster]

Haha, that sounds quite painful indeed, Patrick...

Yeah, my friend just showed me the B chord today, my index finger refuses to move out that far, hehe. I actually played a somewhat decently-paced La Bamba with the C, D and G chords today, lol :D

I'm getting into fingerstyle now and blending my practice between it and chords 'til me fingertips be burnin'. Was at my pal's house today and he was teaching me, and his brother in-law came home and he's been playing for about 15 years. Man he was going nuts on his slick Ibanez, was really something :guitar: :shock:

[kruppe]

Don't know if this has been posted, I just stumbled upon

http://www.tuxguitar.com.ar/download.html

[matthew]

Don't know if this has been posted, I just stumbled upon

http://www.tuxguitar.com.ar/download.html
Nice! I had tested a much earlier version of this a long time ago. The program has improved since I last looked at it...Thank you for the recommendation!

[Patrick-Ruff]

yeah don't fret too much about the initial chord stuff, and your fingers not cooperating, they will. mine didn't either the first time I tried but they did after a ton of practice.

also, another tip I can give is to not call it practice, but to just pick it up whenever and play. I never stuck to a decent practice schedule, I play whenever I feel like it (which happens to be atleast an hour a day.) I guess I had such an insane interest in guitar that it just worked for me, I plan on mastering finger style soon, and I'm learning how to read notation.

also, when you do get into lead play, make sure you buy and play to a metronome at all times, if you don't have the money to buy one (like me) you can go to www.metronomeonline.com I'd recommend 100-120 BPM for beginners (even at my speed I have to play at that pace so I can keep it consistent.) pretty much if you play to that you're gonna subconsciously pick up rhythm, it's just like playing with a drummer basically.

[herbster]

Patrick you are helping me a lot with these tidbits, I really appreciate it man.

I have been using the Guitar for Dummies DVD (it's very good) and I finally have Jamaica Farewell down!! It's a nice little song and I can finally play something for my niece :) :)

You are very correct on the practicing. I am usually on the phone and in meetings all day but a lot is from home, so every hour or so I take 10minutes and grab the guitar, and in the last few days it's been adding up to about an hour/day at least overall. My left hand is finally getting more pain-resistant and the fingertips are hardening, and I can finally switch between some doggone chords without making fingernails on the chalkboard a welcome alternative to what I produce :D :D

That metronome site is great! I have been using it while I switch chords.

Question: Is there any kind of recommended progression for me to learn? It'll be barely 2 weeks this Saturday for me, and I have the E, D, G, A and C chords down (yes I'm scurred of the B and F but I'll get 'em). I'm now switching between them somewhat decently. So obviously I am getting the major chords down right now. Should I get into learning fingerstyle now simultaneously? I want to as I feel I should keep the dexterity between both hands as balanced as I can, and I don't want to get too used to going nuts with the left hand while having the right just be a strumming statue.

Also, I have been searching like crazy and have come across a bunch of sites with good information on the notes on the fretboard, the scales, etc.-- and I am getting quite baffled. Can someone just kind of clarify in the most basic terms for a numbskull like me what there is to learn? Like, there's chords, scales, individual notes string by string, right? Even guides I find that are written to the ultra-beginner are not giving an overall, simple list of what makes up music and how it's broken down, what stage to learn it at, etc.

TIA!

[TomMK]

You'll notice that the 5 chords you listed as having learnt spell CAGED. They are very important as the CAGED chords make up the 5 basic chord 'forms' (or hand shapes). These 5 shapes are the 5 fundamentally different ways of playing a chord on the guitar fretboard.

The other chords you mentioned (like F or B) take one of the 5 basic chord shapes and just move it up the fretboard. For example, F is merely the E chord shape moved up one fret.

I would highly recommend a book called Fretboard Logic, see this link:
http://www.amazon.com/Fretboard-Logic-Reasoning-Behind-Guitars/dp/0962477001

In fact, there's a 2 page extract there on amazon that you should read, because it explains the CAGED chords very nicely. This book is the guide you are after, buy it!

[matthew]

You'll notice that the 5 chords you listed as having learnt spell CAGED. They are very important as the CAGED chords make up the 5 basic chord 'forms' (or hand shapes). These 5 shapes are the 5 fundamentally different ways of playing a chord on the guitar fretboard.

The other chords you mentioned (like F or B) take one of the 5 basic chord shapes and just move it up the fretboard. For example, F is merely the E chord shape moved up one fret.While the attached isn't nearly as complete as a full book, you might find it useful. I made it some years ago for a group of students I was teaching. It isn't pretty, but there's a lot of good info packed in this one little jpg and it might help you make some connections. The image is free for you to use, adapt, or whatever.

[Patrick-Ruff]

well, everyone learns differently, everyone has different things they focus on at first, I recommend you focus on what interests you most.

for me when I first started, my interest was in soloing, so I focused on my picking technique and I played a LOT of scales. still do, but mainly now I've been working on finger style (a year after starting, you can pretty much do that whenever you want,) reading music, and perfecting my picking. basically when you start playing scales, always play to a metronome, and unless you're playing with hammer ons/pull offs, make sure your picking is in PERFECT sync with your fretting hand . . . trust me this will take you years to master but it will be worth it.

also, just to let you know, don't expect to be soloing like waht you saw on my video in a year, I played 8 hours a day for about 2 months, vigorous exercise and practice to get that fast, a lot of people take longer to do that mostly from lack of time, but if you play as much as you can in a day (your extra free time) then you should see some general improvement. and if you stick to some good practice habits you wont have to go fix kinks in your technique a year later like me ;).

[defenestratos]

I am currently guitarless but I want a Parker Fly to go through some kind of Carvin beasty. I am tired of this vintage fad we are facing here. Everyone really wants futuristic and wild like Steve Vai. Valves are still nice though.

[herbster]

I would highly recommend a book called Fretboard Logic, see this link:
http://www.amazon.com/Fretboard-Logic-Reasoning-Behind-Guitars/dp/0962477001

In fact, there's a 2 page extract there on amazon that you should read, because it explains the CAGED chords very nicely. This book is the guide you are after, buy it!

Thank you, I just ordered it!! I read the excerpt and the explanation was written so plain and clearly, I'm very excited to get the books.

While the attached isn't nearly as complete as a full book, you might find it useful. I made it some years ago for a group of students I was teaching. It isn't pretty, but there's a lot of good info packed in this one little jpg and it might help you make some connections. The image is free for you to use, adapt, or whatever.

I don't quite understand this image, can you elaborate a bit? :)

well, everyone learns differently, everyone has different things they focus on at first, I recommend you focus on what interests you most.

for me when I first started, my interest was in soloing, so I focused on my picking technique and I played a LOT of scales. still do, but mainly now I've been working on finger style (a year after starting, you can pretty much do that whenever you want,) reading music, and perfecting my picking. basically when you start playing scales, always play to a metronome, and unless you're playing with hammer ons/pull offs, make sure your picking is in PERFECT sync with your fretting hand . . . trust me this will take you years to master but it will be worth it.

also, just to let you know, don't expect to be soloing like waht you saw on my video in a year, I played 8 hours a day for about 2 months, vigorous exercise and practice to get that fast, a lot of people take longer to do that mostly from lack of time, but if you play as much as you can in a day (your extra free time) then you should see some general improvement. and if you stick to some good practice habits you wont have to go fix kinks in your technique a year later like me ;).

Well I certainly don't have 8 hours/day right now, but I slow down from business quite a bit the first week of December, so I'll have several hours/day for the month, and I'll definitely be using it. Right now I'm working on changing chords accurately and quickly and learning B and F.

BTW, I don't know if any of you have seen this, but it was part of something on Digg earlier this week and I found it funny since I just started learning guitar: http://www.skymall.com/shopping/detail.htm?pid=102176391 :D

[matthew]

I don't quite understand this image, can you elaborate a bit? :)
The book you ordered will help you with this as well.

What the diagram is showing you are the relationships between major and minor scales (full and pentatonic) and the most-used chord forms--exactly the same ones that were mentioned earlier as the CAGED forms.

The chords shown in my example on the left are all D and on the right are all Bm.

You would be playing the exact same chord five different ways if you move down the left-most column--first you play a D chord using the C form at the second fret, then the A form at the fifth fret, then the G form at the seventh fret, then the E form at the tenth fret, then the D form at the twelfth fret (playing that high up on the neck is quite a bit easier on an electric). Cool, huh?

The next column shows you the fingering for the full major scale in the key of D, played at that exact same spot on the neck.

As you move to the right I transition through the major and minor pentatonic scales at each position, since they are used very often. Then I go to the minor scale at the exact same spot, and finally, on the right, I show a minor chord form that one might play at the exact same spot on the neck.

My goal with this was to help show some of the connections between various chord forms and scales as well as give a fuller sense of where notes and chords can be played on the neck.

Well, a lot of this is communicated better face to face with each of us holding guitars, but I think you might be able to start to get the idea. Hang on to the sheet and look at it again after you read the book you just bought. It will make more sense then. :)

For example, the first row...

[nynoah]

sorry I was searching and so far I can not find an answer. I have ubuntu gutsy with the packages for ubuntu studio installed. I have got Jack up and running and I have my guitar plugged into my computer and I can hear it fine through the speakers. But I can not get any of the programs in Ubuntu studio to work with my guitar. Is there some kind of how to guide to get all the things in Ubuntu studio to work. I found a page on www.ubustu.com but none of them seem to help me.

Thanks
Noah

[Patrick-Ruff]

matthew, did you ever write up any things like that for reading notation? I'm still trying to memorize all the notes in the staff and ledger lines (ugh hate those . . . (ledger lines))

[matthew]

matthew, did you ever write up any things like that for reading notation? I'm still trying to memorize all the notes in the staff and ledger lines (ugh hate those . . . (ledger lines))Sadly, no. I have to confess that I'm not a great reader of music. I can look and read a melody line and generally play it (slowly sometimes), I can tell you what key something is in, and if I stop to think about it I can tell you what chords are written, but I'm too slow at any of that to be useful. I was blessed with good ears and quick hands, so that is where my strength lies. I'm a very poor sight reader, but a very good improvisational player. I keep thinking I'm going to go back and work on reading music better, and then I don't.

Oh! That reminds me of an old joke. It doesn't apply to all guitarists, but it applies to enough of us that it is pretty funny.

Q: How do you get the guitar player to turn down the volume on his amp?

A: Put a music chart in front of him.

[AggieTwist]

hey guys, was messing around and accidentally came across this thread. I'm new to Ubuntu and the forums but I have a 20th Anniversary Squier Strat, a '76 Fender Strat, a Martin acoustic and a Yamaha C40 classical. I also recently started an independent record label.

[Patrick-Ruff]

hah nice joke matthew. yeah right now I seem to be blessed with quick hands as well (though if I could play left handed liek I'm supposed to, I would be several times faster, or atleast, more accurate.) so far it's taking me a while to get good at sight reading but it's commng slowly but surely. it's mainly the idea behind each note occuring 3 times each or something like that . . . haven't even got into ledger lines yet . . . ha.

[herbster]

Well I got Fretboard Logic today and just started reading it, it is very very good. I have to read each page over and over again as all of these concepts are so new to me, but the author is quite skilled at explanation.

Few questions just to so I can be 100% sure I am understanding what he's saying:
- So basically a barre chord is taking any of the forms (CAGED) and playing them with fingers 2-4 and the index is pressing down on the entire fret of say 1st, 2nd, etc. ??
- For example I don't get the F chord, it can be played with index finger across both B and E strings of 1st fret with middle and ring on 2nd and 3rd fret, but in the book I notice examples where the entire fret is barred (index across whole fret). I am confused??

I do understand the fretboard much, much better now even after just the beginning of the book. The AA#BCC#DD#EFF#GG# layout makes it super simple to figure out where the chords are and how the forms just span across it to make up the whole thing. It's really amazing. I guess it's my uber-noobness that's leaving me a bit confused about the different chords and forms but it's just a matter of time.

[AggieTwist]

the F chord with index finger across both B and E at the 1st fret with middle and ring on 2nd and 3rd fret is kinda what I call a cheater chord...for that you aren't supposed to play the low E or A string, this form of F still gets the main notes of an F chord without being as difficult for beginners as a barre chord. The proper barred way to play it is with the index across the first fret and the middle and ring on 2nd and 3rd. play it whatever way you like but i recommend practicing barre chords at least...it opens a whole new world of playing and can be alot simpler to play some pretty complex chord progressions later on. The fretboard and theory may take some time to learn but you'll never regret it since its time well spent and makes you a much better musician.

[herbster]

Thank you Aggie. That clears it up for me regarding the barre chords. I'm curious if you or any others can recommend proper practice of barre chords? Right now if I press my index finger across the entire fret with my hand squishing the neck as tight as possible, I barely get a clean sound lol. Is it just pressing my index finger on and off over and over again? And index finger is the only one that does this, right? Covering the whole fret.

[matthew]

Thank you Aggie. That clears it up for me regarding the barre chords. I'm curious if you or any others can recommend proper practice of barre chords? Right now if I press my index finger across the entire fret with my hand squishing the neck as tight as possible, I barely get a clean sound lol. Is it just pressing my index finger on and off over and over again? And index finger is the only one that does this, right? Covering the whole fret.
With your left index finger laying across the fretboard, pressing on all six strings, gently roll your finger so that the bony side of your finger that is closest to your thumb lays across the strings instead of the fleshy part.

This is a little difficult at first, because it feels unnatural. However, using the bony side of your finger to make the bar will help you press all six strings down and get a clear tone from all of them.

[herbster]

Thanks matthew! These barre chords are going to take quite some time to get under the belt.

Just to be sure, what's happening is when I put my index finger across the first fret and then try to get the middle and ring fingers on the 2nd and 3rd frets, my fingers can't bend at the knuckles, they kind of go straight. I've attached a crappy pic from my phone cam to show what I mean. I really want to avoid learning the wrong way and will go through whatever hand aches I must :D

http://www.bobgill.net/Photo_113007_001.jpg

[matthew]

I know nothing about the blog it came from, but I found this picture from a Google search. It shows what I am describing.

http://www.riffinteractive.com/michaelj/mjarchive11/11-16-00/182537c.jpg

Notice how the index finger is rotated slightly so that the bony side of the finger (thumb side) is pressing the strings? That's what we are going for here.

[TomMK]

Just wait until you get on to volumes 2 and 3 of the Fretboard Logic series. Seriously, you thought Saul was enlightened....

[herbster]

Thank you Matthew!

TomMK, Yeah I'm going to finish volume one at least by this weekend, have already set aside time for it.

Can you guys look at this tab: http://ultimate-guitar.com/tabs/p/phantom_planet/california_ver2_tab.htm

Where the verse starts, it's 4,5,6,6,4-- I'm curious, would the 4th fret be barred with the index? I can't figure another position would work without my hand falling off, lol.

[shen-an-doah]

Where the verse starts, it's 4,5,6,6,4-- I'm curious, would the 4th fret be barred with the index? I can't figure another position would work without my hand falling off, lol.

Yep, that's just a C#m. Basically an Am, but slid up and with your index finger acting as a moveable nut.

[paul cooke]

OK, here I am rockin' out with my bass at a jam session the other evening...

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w9/paulcooke100/Paul.jpg

[Patrick-Ruff]

right on, I was jamming with 3 people the other day, I was playing a bass at the time but it was all cool, 1 nylon stringed guitar, one steel string, electrc, and a drumset.

lots of fun there :)

[herbster]

Yep, that's just a C#m. Basically an Am, but slid up and with your index finger acting as a moveable nut.

Does C#m mean C sharp minor? I'm really trying to work on being able to figure out the terminology and everything quickly :)
OK, here I am rockin' out with my bass at a jam session the other evening...

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w9/paulcooke100/Paul.jpg

Nice facial expression, Paul :D

So today I got the riff from Nirvana's "All Apologies" down, first one I can play pretty well!! Didn't take long and it's the first time I used the slide, which I'm loving :) I even improvised a couple notes on my own!

I'm going to work on my fingerstyle now as well, as I pretty much have only been practicing chords for these first few weeks. I'm also working on a couple pentatonic scales, and I believe it was ComplexNumber earlier in this thread who mentioned The Spider technique; I googled it and man what a wonderful exercise! It's really helping my fretting hand.

[Patrick-Ruff]

I never was a big fan of that technique, haven't ever really used it. john petrucci introduces a lot of INSANE exercises in his Rock Discipline video, it'd probably be a good idea for you to check that out once you start getting into some more advanced soloing (in other words, a beginner couldn't possibly do really any of the exercises in that video.)

[TomMK]

To answer your question herbster, yes it does mean C sharp minor. The chord shape (or 'form' to use the correct Fretboard Techniques vocabulary ;)) is an A minor form, which is an A form but with the 2nd string played one fret lower to make it minor. Then you move the whole lot up the board by 4 frets, so starting at A that gives you Bb, B, C, C#.

You do play it with a bar, your index finger laying across the 4th fret, and your other 3 fingers fretting.

On a side note, you seem to be progressing insanely fast with this guitar business! Good on you - I've been playing over 3 years but the first didn't count because I only learnt one riff from a Dire Straits song. My flatmates don't like that song any more :) I was good at it, mind...

For fingerstyle inspiration, find anything by Tommy Emmanuel on YouTube.

[shen-an-doah]

Just for reference:

M = major (though often it will be left out, so just G instead of GM)
m = minor
d = diminshed
sus = suspended

Also, in other cases, capitals mean major and lower case means minor. So using the numerals system means that a chord sequence of I - IV - iii, means to play (in a given key) a major chord built off the first or "root" note, then a major chord built off the 4th and then a minor chord built off the 3rd. So, in G it would be G, C, Bm.

[AggieTwist]

man guys, just got back a little bit ago from the best jam session of my life (mind you, i'm only 19 so still have a lot of opportunity). this guy in my hometown has a professional home studio and he's a really amazing lead guitarist and was teaching a friend and I some Australian scale technique based off the Nashville chord numbering system. But after awhile we branched off and started just flat out jamming for about 3 hours before finally coming to a close playing an 8 minute improvised blues session of Sweet Home Chicago. It was AMAZING! sounded great and learned a bunch more about lead guitar and scales...plus I bought a slide today and set up one of my guitars to play slide guitar which is fun. slide is gonna take awhile to get good at tho, anyway, just thought i'd share the experience

[Guitar John]

Thanks matthew! These barre chords are going to take quite some time to get under the belt.

Just to be sure, what's happening is when I put my index finger across the first fret and then try to get the middle and ring fingers on the 2nd and 3rd frets, my fingers can't bend at the knuckles, they kind of go straight. I've attached a crappy pic from my phone cam to show what I mean. I really want to avoid learning the wrong way and will go through whatever hand aches I must :D

http://www.bobgill.net/Photo_113007_001.jpg

Your thumb shouldn't be flat against the back of the guitar neck. Rotate it almost 90 degrees clockwise and arch it slightly. That puts the whole arm in a more natural position and eliminates a lot of tension in the hand and arm.

Cheers,
John

[herbster]

To answer your question herbster, yes it does mean C sharp minor. The chord shape (or 'form' to use the correct Fretboard Techniques vocabulary ;)) is an A minor form, which is an A form but with the 2nd string played one fret lower to make it minor. Then you move the whole lot up the board by 4 frets, so starting at A that gives you Bb, B, C, C#.

You do play it with a bar, your index finger laying across the 4th fret, and your other 3 fingers fretting.

On a side note, you seem to be progressing insanely fast with this guitar business! Good on you - I've been playing over 3 years but the first didn't count because I only learnt one riff from a Dire Straits song. My flatmates don't like that song any more :) I was good at it, mind...

For fingerstyle inspiration, find anything by Tommy Emmanuel on YouTube.

Thanks Tom-- your recommendation of Fretboard Logic has been helping me so much. I'm really learning a lot from it. I'm going to do some searching for tommy Emmanuel now (have you seen Greg Bennet's glider capo? http://www.glidercapo.com talk about a fingerstyle superduperstar! )

Just for reference:

M = major (though often it will be left out, so just G instead of GM)
m = minor
d = diminshed
sus = suspended

Also, in other cases, capitals mean major and lower case means minor. So using the numerals system means that a chord sequence of I - IV - iii, means to play (in a given key) a major chord built off the first or "root" note, then a major chord built off the 4th and then a minor chord built off the 3rd. So, in G it would be G, C, Bm.

This is very helpful, thank you. And what is the "b" ? Is that flat? ie., Bb.

Your thumb shouldn't be flat against the back of the guitar neck. Rotate it almost 90 degrees clockwise and arch it slightly. That puts the whole arm in a more natural position and eliminates a lot of tension in the hand and arm.

Cheers,
John

Yeah, that's definitely not technique I want to make a habit out of. Thanks for the tip, as I'm quite finnicky about learning correctly as I want to avoid having to unlearn things later on ;)


So for my simple mind, basically music is ABCDEFG and when music is in the "key of" say B, that means exactly what? That the song's basic sound is the B pitch? I just get a bit confused sometimes and want to sort out all the terms, like root note, key of, etc. Man I gotta find the time for some music classes next year, lol ;) (and to think, I played a very, very good trumpet in grade 8!)

[Patrick-Ruff]

you are correct, the lowercase b means flat. # means sharp. when/if you get into reading music you'll be using those a lot more, but until then they're not really that useful to you.


anyone have any good exercises for lead guitarists changing positions a lot? I tend to stay in the same position when I'm soloing which isn't really the best idea, so yeah if anyone has any tips I'd appreciate it.

[matthew]

So for my simple mind, basically music is ABCDEFG and when music is in the "key of" say B, that means exactly what? That the song's basic sound is the B pitch? I just get a bit confused sometimes and want to sort out all the terms, like root note, key of, etc. Man I gotta find the time for some music classes next year, lol ;) (and to think, I played a very, very good trumpet in grade 8!)When someone says that a song is in a certain key, they mean that it uses a series of notes (called a scale) with that note in the root. There are lots of different kinds of scales, the most common being the major and the minor scale. What differentiates the scales from one another is the spaces between each note in the series (called the intervals).

For example, the major scale in the key of C would be these notes, in this order:C D E F G A B CThis scale, like all major scales, uses the following interval pattern

root, then go up two half-steps (one whole step) to the
2nd note, then up two half steps to the
3rd, up one half step to the
4th, up two half steps to the
5th, up two half steps to the
6th, up two half steps to the
7th, up one half step to the
8th (octave)

Some people memorize this pattern as "whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half."

On a guitar fretboard, every time you go up one fret on a string, you raise the pitch by one half step. So, you can see that it is simple to play an entire scale on one string if you want to do so. Later, you will find that it is possible to play approximately two full octaves in one position.

Well, that's enough to get you started anyway. :)

anyone have any good exercises for lead guitarists changing positions a lot? I tend to stay in the same position when I'm soloing which isn't really the best idea, so yeah if anyone has any tips I'd appreciate it.Try this: begin playing in one position on the bass E string. When you get to the note you would generally end with on that string, instead of moving up a string, slide your finger up the string to the next position and continue the scale from there on the next string. Repeat all the way up each string and up the neck. The page I posted earlier has a series of scale patterns on it, which all connect one to another. You could use that or draw one up of the whole fretboard in a certain key to give you some new ideas for scale patterns... :)

For example, in the key of G...-----------------------------10-12-15---|
---------------------8-10-12------------|
-----------------7-9--------------------|
-----------5-7-9------------------------|
-----3-5-7------------------------------|
-3-5------------------------------------|Now, I just sat at a guitar and played something rather than writing it down first. Because of that, I realize I didn't slide up on the sixth nor the third string, but it seemed a little more musical this way, so I left it as it. In this instance, every time you see three notes on a string, slide up to the third note using the same finger as you used for the note just prior. On the four bass-side strings I am using my index and ring fingers, on the two treble strings I used my middle and pinky, but you could use your index and ring fingers again. Adapt as you like.

A quick slide like this is an easy way to change positions, and do so musically/melodically.

[happy-and-lost]

I'm getting an Epiphone ES335 for Christmas :D

Now I just want Santa to fix my Ashdown's VU meter :(

[shen-an-doah]

So for my simple mind, basically music is ABCDEFG and when music is in the "key of" say B, that means exactly what? That the song's basic sound is the B pitch? I just get a bit confused sometimes and want to sort out all the terms, like root note, key of, etc. Man I gotta find the time for some music classes next year, lol ;) (and to think, I played a very, very good trumpet in grade 8!)

Right, I'll try and give you a quick and dirty explanation of key signatures/etc. I dunno how much you know, so I'll try to explain everything.

A scale has 8 notes in it. These go:

1st/root/tonic
2nd/supertonic
3rd/mediant
4th/subdominant
5th/dominant
6th/submediant
7th/subtonic
8th/octave

The note names are to do with how they sound when moving between chords. Play an A (tonic) and then play a D (dominant in the key of A) and note how it sounds coming after the A. Then go to back to the A and see how that sounds. The tonic chord is your "home" chord. Whatever chord you're playing will always want to resolve to that home chord. You can create "tension" in songs by not resolving to the tonic.

What these notes are will depend on whether you're using the major or minor scale. Using E as an example (as it allows you to use the open E and it closely follows your fretboard dots), the patterns go as so:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
major E (T) F# (T) G# (S) A (T) B (T) C# (T) D# (S) E
minor E (T) F# (S) G (T) A (T) B (S) C (T) D (T) E
(T stands for "tone" which is two spaces on the fretboard, S for "semitone", which is just one)

You'll notice that some of the notes differ between the scales, while others stay the same. The 3rd, 6th and 7th are intervals which determine the "sex" of a chord (i.e. whether it's major or minor).

In a chromatic scale (chromatic means all the notes, going up in semitones) the intervals go like this (again in E):

E - root
F - minor 2nd
F#/Gb - major 2nd
G - minor 3rd
G#/Ab - major 3rd
A - "perfect" 4th
A#/Bb - Augmented 4th/Dimished 5th/tritone
B - "perfect" 5th
C - minor 6th
C#/Db - major 6th
D - minor 7th
D#/Eb - major 7th
E - octave

Notice that there's also a major and minor 2nd, but both the major and minor scales use the major 2nd. The minor 2nd is only used in more complex scales such as modes. (we don't need to go into those at this level)

Also, the 4th and 5th are called "perfect" because they are neither major nor minor.

The A#/Bb has multiple names. Augmented basically means "add 1", while diminished means "subtract 1". The "tritone" name comes from the fact that it has an "evil" sound. Check out the main riff to Black Sabbath, that's just root, octave, tritone.

On sharps and flats: A lot of people ask "what's the difference between A# and Bb?" The answer is nothing. They are "enharmonic" which means they are the exact same note. The reason for the two names is that a scale should contain every note from A to G. This means E major is E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E rather than E, Gb, G#, A, B, Db, D#, E (exact same notes, except now you have no F or C note but two G and D notes). This is also why you might end up seeing E# or Fb (really just F and E respectively) and B# or Cb (really just C and B) when they don't technically exist...

The best way I learnt about intervals was playing powerchords. A basic powerchord is made up of the root and the 5th (sometimes with an octave as well). If you substitute that 5th for a different interval (say a minor 6th), you get a much different sound. Certain combinations of notes will sound "nicer" than others. Using fifths or fourths will give you a clear, heavy sound, while root and minor sixth will give you a dark, sad sound. You can take this to an extreme with something like root and minor second, which will sound horrible, but maybe you want that...

Building chords:

Basic chords are built off thirds. This means you count three steps up in a scale. So in C major (because it has no sharps or flats, so it's simple):

C 1
D 2
E 3 1
F 2
G 3 1
A 2
B 3 1
C 2
D 3 1
E 2
F 3 1
G 2
A 3 1
B 2
C 3

Any chords will include the notes numbered 1 or 3. That diagram spans two octaves. The first count gives you the root and third. The second gives the root, third and fifth, which is your basic triad (play a C major chord and work out what notes you're playing, it'll only be C, E and G).

The third count gives you a seventh chord, then a ninth (a major 2nd, but up an octave), then an 11th (a 4th up an octave), a 13th (6th + octave) and then back to your root note. You usually won't go past a 7th chord, unless you start playing Jazz (or some Hendrix as he uses an augmented 9th chord a lot).

If you do this counting in thirds starting on other notes in the scale, you get the chords which are "diatonic" (belong to) to the key you're in. So, in C major:

C D E F G A B C - C
C D E F G A B C - Dm
C D E F G A B C - Em
C D E F G A B C - F
C D E F G A B C D - G
C D E F G A B C D E - Am
C D E F G A B C D E F - Bd

This gives you a pattern of I - ii - iii - IV - V - vi - viid, the chords for minor being i - iid - III - iv - V - VI - viid

The "d"s stand for "diminished", this means that if you look at the B chord, you'll find it has a flattened 5th, compared to the others which have a normal perfect 5th.

You get more complicated/interesting chords by using the other notes in a scale. Play the chord: X02200 (low to high), this is an Asus2 as the 3rd has been "suspended" and replaced by a major 2nd (also meaning it's neither major or minor as it has no 3rd to define it as such). You can also get suspended 4ths or chords like a G6 (320000, where the final high G is replaced with an E, which is the major 6th of G).

When you're playing a chord, look at what notes make up the chord and how they relate to the root note.

Inversions/slash chords:

At times, you might see a chord with a name like this: D/F#, what that basically means is that you're playing a D, but the lowest note you hear is an F#. This is called an "inversion" because the F# is part of a D chord (D, F#, A) but it's lower than the root of D. Take a look at the chord in question: 200232, the notes in it are F#, A, D, A, D, F#.


I think that's about it for what you could need to know about Keys at this level. Hopefully that's given you a better understanding of how notes and chords work together and how chords are constructed and how different chords fit into different keys. Of course, all these rules can be broken to create different effects and such. And obviously you don't need to know all this when playing a song or to think about it when writing a song. Mostly it will rely on your ears, so make sure you listen carefully to how things sound.

[shen-an-doah]

Damn, Matthew got in before me. Read his first, as mine goes into more detail :-P


And to think I got a D in music GCSE... :D

[matthew]

Damn, Matthew got in before me. Read his first, as mine goes into more detail :-P


And to think I got a D in music GCSE... :Dlol

Nicely done, shen-an-doah

[shen-an-doah]

lol

Nicely done, shen-an-doah

Hehe, thanks :D

And just in case you were wondering, I got a D because I started off as a drummer, so I wasn't very good at the composing or theory side of things until I started teaching myself guitar. Unfortunately, I didn't progress fast enough to be able to get a good grade.

I now have a degree in music, technology and innovation (BA), so I think I may have improved a little... :-P

[Patrick-Ruff]

wow that was some really useful stuff. when I have more time I'll read over that a few times :D.


but I think with all that stuff it's essential that you memorize the notes on the neck . . . . otherwise how will you know when you're playing in the key of C?


http://www.allmusicmethods.info/chordguide/guitarnecknotes.gif

the best way to go about this is to remember that at the 12 fret, it's the same note as strumming the guitar openly.

so if you hold your index down at the 12th fret, you have E A D G B E, just like if you were to strum your guitar without pressing your fingers down, E A D G B E.

so basically, the notes you see here, for the low E, you see E . . . F . . F# or Gb G, etc. at the 12 fret, 13th fret is the same as the 1st fret in notes, only two octives higher? (correct me if I'm wrong.)

[stoodleysnow]

:guitar::guitar::guitar::guitar:

[TomMK]

Patrick - it's 1 octave higher, not two :)

[shen-an-doah]

It's not technically necessary to know all the notes on the fretboard off by heart so that someone can just point at one and you go "B#!". I mean, I don't. What I do know is notes on certain parts (such as along the low E and A strings, as that's where the root notes of powerchords are) and then I use interval jumps to work out the other notes.

Say I need to know what note the 19th fret on the B string is. I just jump down an octave and I'm on the 16th fret on the D, down another octave and I'm on 14th fret of the E, which I know is F#.

[herbster]

Holy moly!! To Matthew and shenandoah, thank you sooooo much for your posts... I have copied them into Openoffice and printed them, it's on my bulletin board beside my desk now for constant reference :D :D

Patrick, that image is exactly what I was about to google image search for, haha! Thanks so much for that.

I am gonna have a bunch of questions for you when I get back home in a bit and read over your post again shenandoah-- beware, my fearless capability to ask a myriad of questions that a month from now will be looked back upon with a "How the eff did I not know that?" ;) :D

[guitarguy987]

Hey all,

I'm new to linux, I'm learning some ubuntu and came across this thread... I've been playing for the better part of 20 years now, since I was a kid. I now have a collection of about 7 guitars, and an electronic drumset.

Unfortunatly, working nights has pretty much stopped my jamming with the band, I do miss it terribly...

Anyways, just wondering, I have a Tascam US-224 USB unit at home. I was wondering if it works in Ubuntu? I remember trying to get it working with Linux a couple of years ago, but I didn't have the patience, so I went back to the dark side (windows...)

I'm now willing to give it another try, to get back into recording a little bit... And actually start playing some guitar again, not just Guitar Hero! Lol...

Thanks!

Edit: Crap, nevermind about the tascam, I just found a post in this very forum on how to get a Tascam USB unit to work... Go figure...

[th3james]

Hey guys, got a questions about amps laptops...

I've got a vox vr15, the amp is great, but the problem is, when i use the line out (or headphone out) into my laptop to record, i get loads of noise. The noise is like a middy crackling, but here's the weird thing, the crackling changes depending on what i do with my laptop, e.g. scrolling on a page produces a different noise, and unplugging the laptop charger changes the tone... odd. The vox has a value value pre amp, my solid state line 6 spider 2 15watt doesn't have this problem. Any ideas what could be the problem?

[Patrick-Ruff]

I think that's just general electronic radiation. when you scroll a page your cpu usage goes up, which increases voltage, which causes more electronic radiation which could cause some sort of noise . . . I don't know for sure though, that's just my guess.

[Fitzy_oz]

you are correct, the lowercase b means flat. # means sharp. when/if you get into reading music you'll be using those a lot more, but until then they're not really that useful to you.


anyone have any good exercises for lead guitarists changing positions a lot? I tend to stay in the same position when I'm soloing which isn't really the best idea, so yeah if anyone has any tips I'd appreciate it.

Matthew's exercise is a good one, I had someone show me something similar to that what seems like only a short while ago (sadly it was a long time ago). I also found that if you feel your restricted to playing in one part of the fretboard (be it where the low e whereever it's fretted is the root note of the scale your playing), try using the same scale and playing the solo in a different position, same scale but start it from the next position down on the fret board. For example:

Am - What i would call the default/Natrual starting point for the Am scale (i am a bit of hack when it comes to theory, i know what im playing, i just dont know all the proper names ;) )

E 5 7 8
B 5 6 8
G 4 5 7
D 5 7
A 5 7 8
E 5 7 8

Try starting it from these postions: Same scale, just different starting points - I found the more i got used to using the scale in different positions, the less boxed in you feel, it's also fun and make for some really cool intervals between notes as well some massive runs up and down the fretboard - which is always fun in the right place :)
E 7 8 10
B 8 10
G 7 9 10
D 7 9 10
A 7 8 10
E 7 8 10

E 12 13 15
B 12 13 15
G 12 14
D 12 14 15
A 12 13 15
E 12 13 15


Another thing that I like to do when i'm soloing is use progression's chord shapes and arpeggiate them or use them as the base and blend them with parts of the the major/minor scale/mode while I'm playing the lead, I found it pretty difficult at first to break the habbit of simply using the box positions and normal scales, but I think it';s worth it, it gives you more options which never hurts when your doing a lead break and of course you can break in and out of the box shapes.

[Patrick-Ruff]

thanks for the advice, I'll start implementing that immediately :).

I was wondering though, perhaps it would also be ideal to to those several scale shapes but changing positions each string? looked like a good idea to me.

[Fitzy_oz]

thanks for the advice, I'll start implementing that immediately :).

I was wondering though, perhaps it would also be ideal to to those several scale shapes but changing positions each string? looked like a good idea to me.

I would do both, probably learn the new positions first, i found getting familiar with positions makes it easier.
Once your familiar with positions then start practicing them that way. Maybe even spend half the time your practicing them straight and moving through the positions normally then as u said above (and Matthew's example also shows) move through the positions changing at each string, and when your feeling adventurous, try skipping strings and positions which will give you some large intervals and make for some less conventional sounding leads. :)

[Patrick-Ruff]

hmm, anything new going on in the guitar world ? lol.

[D-EJ915]

ESP Japan updated their original series page: http://espguitars.co.jp/original/

They killed off a few models I liked :/ but not like I would be getting one anyway, a bit out of my price range.

[wana10]

as long as we have a thread for guitarists i figured i might as well show off my new baby...
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/859/bd2b3wf9.th.jpg (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bd2b3wf9.jpg)

:guitar::KS

[shen-an-doah]

as long as we have a thread for guitarists i figured i might as well show off my new baby...
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/859/bd2b3wf9.th.jpg (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bd2b3wf9.jpg)

:guitar::KS

:shock:

Me love you long time!

[matthew]

as long as we have a thread for guitarists i figured i might as well show off my new baby...
Wow! Very nice. Thank you for sharing a pic!

[Patrick-Ruff]

wow . . totally jealous

[Bezmotivnik]

i figured i might as well show off my new baby...
G5120, right?

I got a G6119-1962HT (http://www.gretschguitars.com/repository/gretsch/images/G6119-1962HT_xl.jpg) about a year ago. It's OK. Eh.

The one I really want, though, is the G100CE (http://www.gretschguitars.com/repository/gretsch/images/G100CE_xl.jpg), even if it is a cheaper model.

[wana10]

G5120, right?

I got a G6119-1962HT (http://www.gretschguitars.com/repository/gretsch/images/G6119-1962HT_xl.jpg) about a year ago. It's OK. Eh.

The one I really want, though, is the G100CE (http://www.gretschguitars.com/repository/gretsch/images/G100CE_xl.jpg), even if it is a cheaper model.

you are correct sir! it is a g5120 with the bridge replaced with a roller bridge and the pickups replaced with GFS Retrotron Hot Nashville overwound's. i had been eying a gretsch archtop for a while and this was too good to miss.
as to your guitar what makes it only ok? if you could change anything about it what would make it your dream guitar?
as for that second guitar you posted...who wouldn't want that guitar?

[Bezmotivnik]

as to your guitar what makes it only ok? if you could change anything about it what would make it your dream guitar?
All the vintage inconveniences -- "silver weenie" bridge, Hi'Lotron pickups, small-knob open Grovers, small frets, absurd wiring circuit, oversize (and therefore self-defeating) zero fret, ill-proportioned head layout aesthetics, etc. It is a nice sounding guitar, though. I have to give it that.
as for that second guitar you posted...who wouldn't want that guitar?
I haven't seen one "in person," but I think it's probably the most tastefully beautiful current production axe I know of, going by the pictures. It's just a Cor-Tek contract build, but they did everything right, starting with a tasteful vintage-matte finish. Some of the Cor-Tek Gretsches are beautifully done. I have a G3100 "Historic Series" Hawaiian I love.

As for tastelessly ugly...I will have a horrifying photo spread in about a week for the stouthearted and morbidly curious after the photographer does the shoot next weekend -- I got some of Trevor Wilkinson's more shocking new guitars, including a couple that will put your eyes out. Play and sound gorgeous, though. ;)

[matthew]

As for tastelessly ugly...I will have a horrifying photo spread in about a week for the stouthearted and morbidly curious after the photographer does the shoot next weekend -- I got some of Trevor Wilkinson's more shocking new guitars, including a couple that will put your eyes out. Play and sound gorgeous, though. ;)Ooooooooooh. I'm intrigued. Please post a link when the photos are available to be seen, if possible.

P.S. Welcome back! It's been a while.

[herbster]

shen-an-doah, It took me a while to get around to it but I have some time off this week and I'm gonna be learnin' as much as I can :D I just read over your post a few (ok, about 10 lol) times and have some questions:

Right, I'll try and give you a quick and dirty explanation of key signatures/etc. I dunno how much you know, so I'll try to explain everything.

A scale has 8 notes in it. These go:

1st/root/tonic
2nd/supertonic
3rd/mediant
4th/subdominant
5th/dominant
6th/submediant
7th/subtonic
8th/octave

The note names are to do with how they sound when moving between chords. Play an A (tonic) and then play a D (dominant in the key of A) and note how it sounds coming after the A. Then go to back to the A and see how that sounds. The tonic chord is your "home" chord. Whatever chord you're playing will always want to resolve to that home chord. You can create "tension" in songs by not resolving to the tonic.

Can you elaborate more on the playing the A and then D, and the "resolving" ? I don't understand, and probably because I don't know how to play an A scale on my guitar yet, lol :D

What these notes are will depend on whether you're using the major or minor scale. Using E as an example (as it allows you to use the open E and it closely follows your fretboard dots), the patterns go as so:

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8
major E (T) F# (T) G# (S) A (T) B (T) C# (T) D# (S) E
minor E (T) F# (S) G (T) A (T) B (S) C (T) D (T) E
(T stands for "tone" which is two spaces on the fretboard, S for "semitone", which is just one)

You'll notice that some of the notes differ between the scales, while others stay the same. The 3rd, 6th and 7th are intervals which determine the "sex" of a chord (i.e. whether it's major or minor).

Can I see two scales side by side and quickly determine whether it's minor or major based on whether the 2nd note is a tone or semitone, a la Matthew's memorization method of "whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half" ??

In a chromatic scale (chromatic means all the notes, going up in semitones) the intervals go like this (again in E):

E - root
F - minor 2nd
F#/Gb - major 2nd
G - minor 3rd
G#/Ab - major 3rd
A - "perfect" 4th
A#/Bb - Augmented 4th/Dimished 5th/tritone
B - "perfect" 5th
C - minor 6th
C#/Db - major 6th
D - minor 7th
D#/Eb - major 7th
E - octave

Notice that there's also a major and minor 2nd, but both the major and minor scales use the major 2nd. The minor 2nd is only used in more complex scales such as modes. (we don't need to go into those at this level)

Also, the 4th and 5th are called "perfect" because they are neither major nor minor.

The A#/Bb has multiple names. Augmented basically means "add 1", while diminished means "subtract 1". The "tritone" name comes from the fact that it has an "evil" sound. Check out the main riff to Black Sabbath, that's just root, octave, tritone.

On sharps and flats: A lot of people ask "what's the difference between A# and Bb?" The answer is nothing. They are "enharmonic" which means they are the exact same note. The reason for the two names is that a scale should contain every note from A to G. This means E major is E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E rather than E, Gb, G#, A, B, Db, D#, E (exact same notes, except now you have no F or C note but two G and D notes). This is also why you might end up seeing E# or Fb (really just F and E respectively) and B# or Cb (really just C and B) when they don't technically exist...

The best way I learnt about intervals was playing powerchords. A basic powerchord is made up of the root and the 5th (sometimes with an octave as well). If you substitute that 5th for a different interval (say a minor 6th), you get a much different sound. Certain combinations of notes will sound "nicer" than others. Using fifths or fourths will give you a clear, heavy sound, while root and minor sixth will give you a dark, sad sound. You can take this to an extreme with something like root and minor second, which will sound horrible, but maybe you want that...

Building chords:

Basic chords are built off thirds. This means you count three steps up in a scale. So in C major (because it has no sharps or flats, so it's simple):

Likely a question I should know if I understood your post better but: Why are there no sharps or flats in C major?

C 1
D 2
E 3 1
F 2
G 3 1
A 2
B 3 1
C 2
D 3 1
E 2
F 3 1
G 2
A 3 1
B 2
C 3

Any chords will include the notes numbered 1 or 3. That diagram spans two octaves. The first count gives you the root and third. The second gives the root, third and fifth, which is your basic triad (play a C major chord and work out what notes you're playing, it'll only be C, E and G).

The third count gives you a seventh chord, then a ninth (a major 2nd, but up an octave), then an 11th (a 4th up an octave), a 13th (6th + octave) and then back to your root note. You usually won't go past a 7th chord, unless you start playing Jazz (or some Hendrix as he uses an augmented 9th chord a lot).

If you do this counting in thirds starting on other notes in the scale, you get the chords which are "diatonic" (belong to) to the key you're in. So, in C major:

C D E F G A B C - C
C D E F G A B C - Dm
C D E F G A B C - Em
C D E F G A B C - F
C D E F G A B C D - G
C D E F G A B C D E - Am
C D E F G A B C D E F - Bd

This gives you a pattern of I - ii - iii - IV - V - vi - viid, the chords for minor being i - iid - III - iv - V - VI - viid

Can this method be for any chords?? ie., I can start at F and do the same thing of 1st, 3rd, 5th to make chords in the key of F? (Does that make any sense lol)

The "d"s stand for "diminished", this means that if you look at the B chord, you'll find it has a flattened 5th, compared to the others which have a normal perfect 5th.

You get more complicated/interesting chords by using the other notes in a scale. Play the chord: X02200 (low to high), this is an Asus2 as the 3rd has been "suspended" and replaced by a major 2nd (also meaning it's neither major or minor as it has no 3rd to define it as such). You can also get suspended 4ths or chords like a G6 (320000, where the final high G is replaced with an E, which is the major 6th of G).

When you're playing a chord, look at what notes make up the chord and how they relate to the root note.

Inversions/slash chords:

At times, you might see a chord with a name like this: D/F#, what that basically means is that you're playing a D, but the lowest note you hear is an F#. This is called an "inversion" because the F# is part of a D chord (D, F#, A) but it's lower than the root of D. Take a look at the chord in question: 200232, the notes in it are F#, A, D, A, D, F#.


I think that's about it for what you could need to know about Keys at this level. Hopefully that's given you a better understanding of how notes and chords work together and how chords are constructed and how different chords fit into different keys. Of course, all these rules can be broken to create different effects and such. And obviously you don't need to know all this when playing a song or to think about it when writing a song. Mostly it will rely on your ears, so make sure you listen carefully to how things sound.

You're absolutely right about the importance of how things sound. I'm doing my best to pay attention to that as I practice, and I also want to be competent to some degree with knowledge of theory. It just racks my brains how some can hear a song and name the chords or what it's in the key of, but of course it must come with time and experience.

Thank you so much for taking the time to post this, it's one of the most helpful and well-written bits I've come across for a super beginner like myself to get a better understanding of music theory :)

[herbster]

Oh, and a question for you guys: How often should I tune my guitar? I hadn't tuned it since I got it about 3 weeks ago and I tried playing a little La Bamba for a friend at my office, but it sounded way off, and I was so sure my technique was correct! I couldn't figure it out, and lo and behold I got home, hit the digital tuner button on it and saw it was way out of tune. I've been playing for perhaps ~1hour/day. Should I retune it every couple days, or?

[herbster]

as long as we have a thread for guitarists i figured i might as well show off my new baby...
http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/859/bd2b3wf9.th.jpg (http://img519.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bd2b3wf9.jpg)

:guitar::KS

Freakin' sweet!! Congrats man that is sexy as hell :)

[matthew]

Oh, and a question for you guys: How often should I tune my guitar? I hadn't tuned it since I got it about 3 weeks ago and I tried playing a little La Bamba for a friend at my office, but it sounded way off, and I was so sure my technique was correct! I couldn't figure it out, and lo and behold I got home, hit the digital tuner button on it and saw it was way out of tune. I've been playing for perhaps ~1hour/day. Should I retune it every couple days, or?I recommend tuning it every time you pick the guitar up. Seriously. It's important.

At first, this will seem like a major time commitment, but after a very short time, you will get more adept at hearing as well as the mechanics of tuning, and it won't take long at all.

This will also help later when you are in the middle of a song and you notice your B string is flat...you can tune while playing.

[herbster]

I recommend tuning it every time you pick the guitar up. Seriously. It's important.

At first, this will seem like a major time commitment, but after a very short time, you will get more adept at hearing as well as the mechanics of tuning, and it won't take long at all.

This will also help later when you are in the middle of a song and you notice your B string is flat...you can tune while playing.

Thank you Matthew, I will do this. Now I typically pick up the guitar several times throughout the day; I play for maybe 30 minutes, then a few hours later again, etc. I know you said everytime I pick it up, but with this practice schedule do you still recommend that, or rather the first time I play every day?

And can someone recommend a good instructional site on fingerstyle for the beginner? I have a video I found off a torrent site that is decent but leans more toward blues/jazz and kind of jumps into baselines and all this without really explaining the basics.

[matthew]

Thank you Matthew, I will do this. Now I typically pick up the guitar several times throughout the day; I play for maybe 30 minutes, then a few hours later again, etc. I know you said everytime I pick it up, but with this practice schedule do you still recommend that, or rather the first time I play every day?I recommend you check the tuning every time you play.

After you do that a few times, maybe over just a few days or weeks, you will find that you can just strum a few chords and your ear will tell you if something is off (I like to use an E, D, A, and G). Then if things don't sound right, you can check the tuning. To get here, though, you need to start by making absolutely sure that you always play in tune...hence, you need to check your tuning every time you play, at least until you can tell immediately whether the guitar is in tune or not just by the sound of a chord or two.

[shen-an-doah]

Can you elaborate more on the playing the A and then D, and the "resolving" ? I don't understand, and probably because I don't know how to play an A scale on my guitar yet, lol :D

It's pretty much something you can only grasp by listening. When you're playing in a certain key, the root chord will feel like "home", and depending on how you get to that chord will create different effects. Try a simple 12 bar blues progression:

I - I - I - I
IV - IV - I - I
V - IV - I - I (or V)

Notice when you play the I chord after the IV, it feels "right". If you end on the I, the progression will sound finished, whereas if you on a V, it'll sound unfinished and like you need to go back to the I (try repeating the progression after you play the final V and see how it sounds going back to I)

Can I see two scales side by side and quickly determine whether it's minor or major based on whether the 2nd note is a tone or semitone, a la Matthew's memorization method of "whole, whole, half, whole, whole, whole, half" ??

The 2nd won't tell you whether a scale is major or minor as both have a major 2nd interval. The note that will tell you whether a scale is major or minor is the 3rd.

Likely a question I should know if I understood your post better but: Why are there no sharps or flats in C major?

Basically, it's because when you start from C, the intervals follow the pattern of natural notes, so it's:

C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B C
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
T T S T T T S

Am does the same, but with the minor interval pattern:

A A# B C C# D D# E F F# G G# A
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
T S T T S T T

Can this method be for any chords?? ie., I can start at F and do the same thing of 1st, 3rd, 5th to make chords in the key of F? (Does that make any sense lol)

Yep, that's exactly right. The notes in F are F, G, A, Bb, C, D, E, F. So starting from F, you get F, A, C, which is an F, or starting from A, you get A, C, E, which is an A.


You're absolutely right about the importance of how things sound. I'm doing my best to pay attention to that as I practice, and I also want to be competent to some degree with knowledge of theory. It just racks my brains how some can hear a song and name the chords or what it's in the key of, but of course it must come with time and experience.

Thank you so much for taking the time to post this, it's one of the most helpful and well-written bits I've come across for a super beginner like myself to get a better understanding of music theory :)

Well, I'm not one of those magical people who can work things out by ear, but I know the constructions of things and whatnot. Theory is just like the grammar of music. Without it, you can end up with something incomprehensible, but that doesn't mean it's totally inflexible. You can bend the rules of it a lot, just like how different dialects of English change the rules of grammar.

And I'm glad I've helped.

[TomMK]

Deep breath... and go...

Can you elaborate more on the playing the A and then D, and the "resolving" ? I don't understand, and probably because I don't know how to play an A scale on my guitar yet, lol :D

The human ear is very good at recognising "fourths" (a root note plus the 4th note) and "fifths" (a root note plus the 5th note, suprisingly :) ). We'll start with 5ths as they are a little easier. A to E is a 5th interval (A, B, C#, D, E). Play A (5th string, open), and then E (4th string, 2nd fret). That sound is easily "digestable" by the brain as a predictable, nice-sounding pair of notes. Moving up the fretboard, keep the same interval (a note on the 5th string, then a note 2 frets higher on the 4th string). Hum or whistle the 2nd note before you play it. You'll find you can "guess" the note that's coming. Then do it with 4ths (5th and 4th strings, same fret). I'm not sure where shen was going with that but it warranted further explaination anyway. :P

As for "resolving", I'll do another quick example. Lets take a key, say F. That would be F,G,A,Bb,C,D,E. Resolving to F means we play some chords in that key, and when we finish, we'll want to finish on F (the root/tonic chord), because it sounds "right". Play Bb, C, F to see what I mean. I deliberately chose some nice barre chords to keep you working at your technique as well as theory. Man I'm good.

Likely a question I should know if I understood your post better but: Why are there no sharps or flats in C major?

It is just a happy fact of life, up there with a sunny day, or Heather Graham :)

Can this method be for any chords?? ie., I can start at F and do the same thing of 1st, 3rd, 5th to make chords in the key of F? (Does that make any sense lol)

Yes and yes. You need Fretboard Logic 2 already!!

You're absolutely right about the importance of how things sound. I'm doing my best to pay attention to that as I practice, and I also want to be competent to some degree with knowledge of theory. It just racks my brains how some can hear a song and name the chords or what it's in the key of, but of course it must come with time and experience.

I wish I could do that!

[Patrick-Ruff]

I'm sure with enough practice you'll be able to pick out the key, chords, etc.

I don't knwo about key yet, but I know I can pick out familiar chords if I hear them.

also to other posters that may be interested, I recently made up a pretty good base to a song, I'm going to be putting it in notation and then working iwth it, so perhaps I'll post the results here :).

[Patrick-Ruff]

hmm as it turns out I do have a theory question . . . .

on notation, staffs, etc.

does a eigth note take up an eigth of a measure, likewise with a fourth taking up a fourth of a measure?

my teacher explained it to me like that, but I wonder if that's only the case in 4/4 time.

[matthew]

hmm as it turns out I do have a theory question . . . .

on notation, staffs, etc.

does a eigth note take up an eigth of a measure, likewise with a fourth taking up a fourth of a measure?

my teacher explained it to me like that, but I wonder if that's only the case in 4/4 time.It is only true in 4/4 time.

Generally, an eighth note is 1/8 of a whole note, which is determined by the tempo of the piece. The fraction of a measure that an eighth note represents would change depending on the time signature. Some examples might make this clearer:

in 4/4 time, four quarter notes make up one measure

in 3/4 time, three quarter notes make up one measure...each would then represent 1/3 of the measure and an eighth note would represent 1/6 of a measure

in 7/8 time, 7 eighth notes make up one measure...you can do the math for that. :)

The most common key signatures you see in western music styles are 4/4, 3/4, and 6/8. You will see others as time goes on, but in rock, folk, blues, country, gospel, and anything based on these styles, these are by far the most common.

In jazz and eastern styles you will see things like 12/8, 7/8 and others. Okay, now I'm answering questions that aren't being asked, so I'll quit here. :)

[shen-an-doah]

Just to note, you will only see the numbers 1, 2, 4, 8, and 16 on the bottom because these are the divisions in 4/4.

Basically, they're just fractions.

[Patrick-Ruff]

good, I'm good with fractions and algebra-based math :D.

thanks matthew, that's kind of what I was thinking but it's still a bit foggy. I just need to make myself write more and more, solidify the knowledge and such. as my guitar teacher isn't going much further into music notation I'm going to have to teach myself the rest (which isn't really too much, the basic stuff seems to be the hardest for me :D)

[herbster]

It's pretty much something you can only grasp by listening. When you're playing in a certain key, the root chord will feel like "home", and depending on how you get to that chord will create different effects. Try a simple 12 bar blues progression:

I - I - I - I
IV - IV - I - I
V - IV - I - I (or V)

Notice when you play the I chord after the IV, it feels "right". If you end on the I, the progression will sound finished, whereas if you on a V, it'll sound unfinished and like you need to go back to the I (try repeating the progression after you play the final V and see how it sounds going back to I)

Okay that's making sense now, and yeah it definitely can only be caught by hearing it, thanks for the clarification.

The 2nd won't tell you whether a scale is major or minor as both have a major 2nd interval. The note that will tell you whether a scale is major or minor is the 3rd.

Woops, yup just reread that, makes sense.

Basically, it's because when you start from C, the intervals follow the pattern of natural notes, so it's:

C C# D D# E F F# G G# A A# B C
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
T T S T T T S

Am does the same, but with the minor interval pattern:

A A# B C C# D D# E F F# G G# A
^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^ ^
T S T T S T T

I actually spelled and counted it out right after I posted, I'm so silly. It's really making sense now, it's just that it takes me a few minutes to count down the intervals and correlate the letters to figure it all out, but it will come with repetition.


Yep, that's exactly right. The notes in F are F, G, A, Bb, C, D, E, F. So starting from F, you get F, A, C, which is an F, or starting from A, you get A, C, E, which is an A.

Okay so lemme get this straight, let's go key of E, so it'll be E, F, F#, G, G#, A, A#, B, C and say the G chord is G, A and B, and the F chord is F, G and A, and the E chord is E, F# and G#, right? (Hope I'm not way off lol). Now what would be the A, B and C chords as it ends there?

Well, I'm not one of those magical people who can work things out by ear, but I know the constructions of things and whatnot. Theory is just like the grammar of music. Without it, you can end up with something incomprehensible, but that doesn't mean it's totally inflexible. You can bend the rules of it a lot, just like how different dialects of English change the rules of grammar.

And I'm glad I've helped.

You certainly are helping me dude, I can't believe I'm starting to understand all of this. There may be hope after all :D

[herbster]

Deep breath... and go...



The human ear is very good at recognising "fourths" (a root note plus the 4th note) and "fifths" (a root note plus the 5th note, suprisingly :) ). We'll start with 5ths as they are a little easier. A to E is a 5th interval (A, B, C#, D, E). Play A (5th string, open), and then E (4th string, 2nd fret). That sound is easily "digestable" by the brain as a predictable, nice-sounding pair of notes. Moving up the fretboard, keep the same interval (a note on the 5th string, then a note 2 frets higher on the 4th string). Hum or whistle the 2nd note before you play it. You'll find you can "guess" the note that's coming. Then do it with 4ths (5th and 4th strings, same fret). I'm not sure where shen was going with that but it warranted further explaination anyway. :P

As for "resolving", I'll do another quick example. Lets take a key, say F. That would be F,G,A,Bb,C,D,E. Resolving to F means we play some chords in that key, and when we finish, we'll want to finish on F (the root/tonic chord), because it sounds "right". Play Bb, C, F to see what I mean. I deliberately chose some nice barre chords to keep you working at your technique as well as theory. Man I'm good.

Tom, thanks a lot, what you wrote here really helped me to actually play the notes and hear this relationship between them. And yes I am working on my barre chords, and it's going to take quite some time to get 'em down by the looks of it, hehe. A real pain in the behind they are!

[herbster]

I recommend you check the tuning every time you play.

After you do that a few times, maybe over just a few days or weeks, you will find that you can just strum a few chords and your ear will tell you if something is off (I like to use an E, D, A, and G). Then if things don't sound right, you can check the tuning. To get here, though, you need to start by making absolutely sure that you always play in tune...hence, you need to check your tuning every time you play, at least until you can tell immediately whether the guitar is in tune or not just by the sound of a chord or two.

What a huuuuge help this pointer is, Matthew. Between your post and now I have already picked up a couple strings slightly out of tune as I practiced. I'm checking them every time I pick it up now, and I like doing it as it's training my ears and ensuring what I play sounds right. Thanks!

EDIT: Doggonit I gotta use multiquote :D

[Patrick-Ruff]

hmm, wouldn't the key of E be E F G A B C D E (I didn't include sharps :P)

[Fitzy_oz]

hmm, wouldn't the key of E be E F G A B C D E (I didn't include sharps :P)

with the sharps E Major -

E F# G# A B C# D# E

E Minor

E F# G A B C D E

:)

[Patrick-Ruff]

oh ok so it varies in sharps whether it's major or minor.

[shen-an-doah]

Okay so lemme get this straight, let's go key of E, so it'll be E, F, F#, G, G#, A, A#, B, C and say the G chord is G, A and B, and the F chord is F, G and A, and the E chord is E, F# and G#, right? (Hope I'm not way off lol). Now what would be the A, B and C chords as it ends there?

As has been said, E is actually E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E. For chords higher up the scale, just repeat it, so you get: E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E.

Then you can make the chords like this:

E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E
E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E
E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E
E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E
E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E
E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E
E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E

oh ok so it varies in sharps whether it's major or minor.

As I said, all scales must contain the notes A to G only once.

[Visti]

Sorry to interrupt the theory talk here (Of which I'm very fond, by the way), but does anyone have any experience using software effects for instrument inputs with recording?

I recently started using NI's Guitar Rig in Pro Tools and I'm actually blown away by the sounds I can get on this with almost any old guitar.. It saves be a bunch of hassle. At first it was to make songwriting go a little smoother and then later I could overdub with hardware effects, but now I might just keep it. I was wondering how it compares to other solutions, such as Amplitube or Waves GTR 3?

Visti

[Patrick-Ruff]

guitar rig is the best if it works smoothly for you, for me amplitube was the best as it was smoother, but guitar rig is probably the best. I've never used waves, but I'm pretty sure if you're content with guitar rig you should stick with it

[herbster]

As has been said, E is actually E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E. For chords higher up the scale, just repeat it, so you get: E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E.

Then you can make the chords like this:

E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E
E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E
E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E
E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E
E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E
E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E
E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E



As I said, all scales must contain the notes A to G only once.


Ah yes, I fudged up and just spelled out the alphabet, lol. Forgot about going up in tones and semitones. Now I'm getting it!


Question for you folks: How tough was it to learn barre chords? How long did it take, roughly? I've been playing for just shy of one month now and I've learnt quite a bit and would say I'm pretty decent for the time thus far, but these things are just something else. I know it will take time but just curious how it was for any of you.

[matthew]

Question for you folks: How tough was it to learn barre chords? How long did it take, roughly?I learned them more than 15 years ago, so my memory of the process has faded a little...that said, I seem to recall they were extremely difficult for about a month, and hard for another month or two after that. Then, all of a sudden, I realized one day that I was playing them without thinking about it.

[TomMK]

Barre chords take a while to feel natural, keep working on them, it will come eventually.

[Patrick-Ruff]

yeah I think I was abotu the same as mathew, for about a month or two it wasjust ridiculous (hence I was probably playing on a more unreasonable guitar than matthew was, fat neck classical with steel strings ;) )

but after a while, my index finger built up a semi-callus and my hand got stronger . . . now I can do them without thinking :).

[herbster]

Damn you, damn the lot of ya who can do them! ;)

Yeah, I just really started to work on them. I am seeing that they are a real test of commitment to learning the guitar, at least for me.

I asked before but perhaps it was lost in the theory discussion-- anyone know of any good sites teaching fingerstyle, with the very basics? I have found some that just assume the beginner magically understands the positioning and exactly how to pick the strings :rolleyes: going into baselines and all that off the bat.