what needs to improve on forum?

[arctic]

hi there. :D

actually i do not want to start any flame war, but in case you feel disturbed by what i write now, please consider that this is only my very personal impression and ignore me, if you feel this is necessary. ;)

first of all: congratulations to all of you who run this board. you have set up one of the better linux-boards in a very short time. yes, one of the better boards, not the best one (i will not tell you which board i personally consider the best one). so here we start: why is it only one of the better boards?

1. this board has grown too fast for my (and not only my) tastes what is directly connected to ubuntus success. that is not your fault, but it reveals some flaws to me. the most critical flaw is that this board is a bit too unorganized imho. there are different sections but they still leave many users a bit lost in the jungle. i haven't seen any area where you might be able to discuss problems that arise e.g from microsoft related problems or where might find help on "other distros" as offered by many forums. also, i miss e.g. a separate networking section. most stuff that is relevant for 4.10 is also relevant in 5.04 and a better structure would be needed here, e.g. having subforums for routers & adsl, dial-up and samba. there are far too many posts to review before finding something that is hardly relevant. this leads to point 2.

2. there are far too many users who submit almost identical topics, thus letting the board explode with an incredible number of posts. i have lost count on the many posts dealing with "ubuntu nr. 1 on distrowatch", "dns-problem with router" or "how can i dual-boot", etc.
yes, first, we need to blame the users that do not use the search tool. but why don't they use it? because nowhere, people are told to, until it is too late. so maybe, at first activation of an account a notifier page should pop up, explaining them what the search tool is for and how they should use it.

3. the result of the many double posts is that many of these duplicated topics do not get answered and, what is even worse, very important issues don't get read by anyone. there is 10x the same "irrelevant" topic, before the 11th topic, which is dealing with important stuff, has any chance of being read. thus, serious bugs / problems don't have any chance of being discussed in detail.

4. it is impossible to see on a first look which topic got solved and which one is still unsolved.

5. nobody seems to use the "unanswered threads" button. why?

6. the information i got in these forums is, sorry to say that, mostly average. there are of course some users that are real experts in almost everything, but many users seem to prefer to flood the forum with enjoyable discussions and polls about everyone and everything. so, my very own impression is that many users only hang around on this board, which actually ain't bad, but the main focus should be resolving issues and not passing them on imho.

hmm... i think that is the most important stuff for now. please do not see it as some kind of ranting but a constructive criticism. i simply want this board to improve and not to become like one of the many rather bad and unproductive boards i have seen here and there over the years. O:)

and please do not give me a bad rating for this topic. ;)

[ubuntu-geek]

hi there. :D

actually i do not want to start any flame war, but in case you feel disturbed by what i write now, please consider that this is only my very personal impression and ignore me, if you feel this is necessary. ;)

first of all: congratulations to all of you who run this board. you have set up one of the better linux-boards in a very short time. yes, one of the better boards, not the best one (i will not tell you which board i personally consider the best one). so here we start: why is it only one of the better boards?

1. this board has grown too fast for my (and not only my) tastes what is directly connected to ubuntus success. that is not your fault, but it reveals some flaws to me. the most critical flaw is that this board is a bit too unorganized imho. there are different sections but they still leave many users a bit lost in the jungle. i haven't seen any area where you might be able to discuss problems that arise e.g from microsoft related problems or where might find help on "other distros" as offered by many forums. also, i miss e.g. a separate networking section. most stuff that is relevant for 4.10 is also relevant in 5.04 and a better structure would be needed here, e.g. having subforums for routers & adsl, dial-up and samba. there are far too many posts to review before finding something that is hardly relevant. this leads to point 2.

2. there are far too many users who submit almost identical topics, thus letting the board explode with an incredible number of posts. i have lost count on the many posts dealing with "ubuntu nr. 1 on distrowatch", "dns-problem with router" or "how can i dual-boot", etc.
yes, first, we need to blame the users that do not use the search tool. but why don't they use it? because nowhere, people are told to, until it is too late. so maybe, at first activation of an account a notifier page should pop up, explaining them what the search tool is for and how they should use it.

3. the result of the many double posts is that many of these duplicated topics do not get answered and, what is even worse, very important issues don't get read by anyone. there is 10x the same "irrelevant" topic, before the 11th topic, which is dealing with important stuff, has any chance of being read. thus, serious bugs / problems don't have any chance of being discussed in detail.

4. it is impossible to see on a first look which topic got solved and which one is still unsolved.

5. nobody seems to use the "unanswered threads" button. why?

6. the information i got in these forums is, sorry to say that, mostly average. there are of course some users that are real experts in almost everything, but many users seem to prefer to flood the forum with enjoyable discussions and polls about everyone and everything. so, my very own impression is that many users only hang around on this board, which actually ain't bad, but the main focus should be resolving issues and not passing them on imho.

hmm... i think that is the most important stuff for now. please do not see it as some kind of ranting but a constructive criticism. i simply want this board to improve and not to become like one of the many rather bad and unproductive boards i have seen here and there over the years. O:)

and please do not give me a bad rating for this topic. ;)

Hello ..

Let me try to address some of these issues.

1. Yes, you are correct there are "alot" of different categories that can be combined and they will be shortly (this week). I understand that some warty issues could be applied to Hoary and that will just go down the food chain as new releases are released.

However, in our effort to help new ubuntu users choose the best section of this forum we have decided to break it into release specific sections.

2. You are 100% correct the welcome letter to new users and the search function needs to be more "open" so people can see it. This will also be changed this week when we launch the new forum style.

3. I also agree on this. Perhaps when we combine some of the forums and make the search feature more visible people will stop posting duplicate threads.

4. We used to have a function that would let a user mark if their thread was resolved or not, however again no one used this. Maybe its time to re-think it.

5. The "unanswered threads" was only added a few days ago. We will try to make this more visible.

6. There are alot of polls and chat related to this and that, however there is alot of valuable information, I think it just needs to be visible. Maybe someone in the community would be interested on helping us come up with a solution.

This forum has grown so fast its almost crazy to keep up with, our moderators who donate their time to help users are simply awesome and if it wasnt for them these forums would probably not be what they are today.

I am always open to new suggestions to improve these forums. I thank you for taking the time to help address some of them.

[DJ_Max]

1.) Being big is a good thing, take it anyway you wanna. :wink: This is an Ubuntu Linux forum, don't see the need for a section about other OS's. The cats seem to fit fine, not many "wrong section posts", there clearly marked.

2.) This will happend regardless, can't stop that, some people don't use the search tool. :???:

3.) If there is a serious bug, it will be looked at, and submitted to the proper place(bugzilla).

4.) Sometimes

5.) I do

6.) Most people don't need or want long essay answers.

[az]

1- There are too many sections.
2- The search button should be 300x300 pixels.
3- Yup.
4- Sometimes, even when someone thinks somthing is solved, there is a better way. Even if it is not solved, it is nice to see what has been thought of to solve the problem.
5- This is not really useful. Someone may answer and say "me too". Would this lead to someone posting a second question on the topic just to make it appear in the unanswered topics pile?
6- Linux is fun as well as useful.

[arctic]

2- The search button should be 300x300 pixels.
hehe... let's make it 1024x768 pixels :D
6- Linux is fun as well as useful.
i know.. i am in forums myself way too often #-o

[kiddo]

I seriously think the design has to be reworked. Now, I don't want to sound "screw vBulletin!", but this is most likely the only forum I've felt uncomfortable with yet ! I don't mean to hurt you, but it feels very bloated. I find even IPB (invision powerboard) and PhpBB to be much, much cleaner on the UI side. Even if they have a reputation of being ressource hogs compared to vBulletin I think. I must say that since I use PunBB, my views on "what's bloated" are quite biased ;):-\"

I just did three google lucky searches: gentoo forums, mandrake forums, suse forums... And two were PhpBB forums, one IPB. And they do feel clean.

There are lots of little details I'm missing there. For example, today I just discovered I had 5 private messages. I didn't even *realize* that PMs were there before!

So um yeah, my remarks are mostly esthetical (I'm a big fan of valid strict XHTML / CSS too), but I don't want to start a flamewar here, I just wanted to point out that the forums could have a major overhaul to have a sexier look

[panickedthumb]

Well, as far as the forum style/organization/etc/etc/ad nauseum (other than the first poster who didn't know) let's hold off on making any judgements until AFTER the big revamp this week ;)

Things will be changing A LOT

[Xian]

Things will be changing A LOT
Uh-oh. I just about am getting used to this place.
I hope I'll still be able to recognize the joint. :)

[skoal]

As someone new to these boards, maybe my short experience here can add some insight.

1. I'm used to phpBB boards, so I still haven't a clue what all these buttons and icons do. Some icons don't have 'tool tips' when I hove over them, so I haven't discovered the full potential of 'vbulletin' yet.

2. The separate 'warty' and 'hoary' forums aren't confusing. What is confusing to me is where I should post a 'Universe' package related problem. My understanding is that these packages aren't supported here in these forums? For example, I have the latest 'beep-media-player' and I have a ./configure request for the package maintainers. I would like to see it built with the '--with-xmms-eq' option. I'm used to a separate 'Multimedia' section or a 'New/Requested Package' forum. It'll take some time for me to figure out the Ubuntu way.

3. I like to think that I search these forums and wiki thoroughly before posting. However, I notice redundant posts as well. Maybe a solution to this would be implementing something similiar I noticed in a forum I didn't have 'new post' rights to. Maybe only allow users with > 20 posts (or so) to have the 'new post' 'right' in those forums where redundancy seems to be a problem. That might 'encourage' (or force) others to look and post in a relevant thread first. I do see problems with this implementation though.

4. I don't have a clue what you can do about such vague thread subject lines like, "Help Please!" or "Sound is broke". That doesn't provide me much help when I search these forums for an answer to my own problem. Unless you have a superman moderator running around here editing all the subject lines, I don't know how else you would resolve that 'problem'.

[bored2k]

As someone new to these boards, maybe my short experience here can add some insight.

1. I'm used to phpBB boards, so I still haven't a clue what all these buttons and icons do. Some icons don't have 'tool tips' when I hove over them, so I haven't discovered the full potential of 'vbulletin' yet.

2. The separate 'warty' and 'hoary' forums aren't confusing. What is confusing to me is where I should post a 'Universe' package related problem. My understanding is that these packages aren't supported here in these forums? For example, I have the latest 'beep-media-player' and I have a ./configure request for the package maintainers. I would like to see it built with the '--with-xmms-eq' option. I'm used to a separate 'Multimedia' section or a 'New/Requested Package' forum. It'll take some time for me to figure out the Ubuntu way.

3. I like to think that I search these forums and wiki thoroughly before posting. However, I notice redundant posts as well. Maybe a solution to this would be implementing something similiar I noticed in a forum I didn't have 'new post' rights to. Maybe only allow users with > 20 posts (or so) to have the 'new post' 'right' in those forums where redundancy seems to be a problem. That might 'encourage' (or force) others to look and post in a relevant thread first. I do see problems with this implementation though.

4. I don't have a clue what you can do about such vague thread subject lines like, "Help Please!" or "Sound is broke". That doesn't provide me much help when I search these forums for an answer to my own problem. Unless you have a superman moderator running around here editing all the subject lines, I don't know how else you would resolve that 'problem'.
Like panickedthumb said, these issuess, like your #2, are being addressed we think for the better, so stick around, you might like what you will see ;).


#3 and #4 Is really the member's problem. They think that people just go clicking threads one by one and that the subject doesn't matter. If you name a thread "esd wont work with XFCE" I already now I have a solution for it, but if you name it "XFCE Problem", I would have to read a large bulky text to find out. Not cool. And for #3, I have it in my signature, use the search bar; Buffalo Soldier has the guides in his sigs, we have links for it, so we cant really hack into your systems and open the guides for you [id love to though]. I even added a funny creature [bunny] so that people will look at my sig].

[kassetra]

While we try our hardest to organize, structure, and present our community forums to you in the best way possible ... please note the following items:

1. We are trying to cover a community that is undergoing a gigantic population explosion, and while we are very considerate of our users, we must think of the overall effect that any changes we make will have.

2. We have to maintain a very thin balancing act between how many threads appear in a single area versus how many sub-forums we have; we don't want threads flying by at the speed of light, nor do we want 17 different areas per sub-forum.

3. The general nature of a forum dedicated to technical support means that the same exact question will be asked many, many times; regardless of the fact that a giant blinking neon sign directing people to a search function is covering half of their screen. Most people are not lazy for not using the search button - they are uncomfortable using it because they aren't sure that they will use the correct term in the search or that they even know exactly what the problem is. Yes most users can use google without a second thought, but that's because they know what they are searching for.

4. Doing anything to majorly decrease the number of "duplicate" threads will stop the influx of new forum members dead in it's tracks. Why? Because you've just sent a giant neon signal to that new user that they are not valuable enough to ask a question. Granted some people may want to slow or even halt the population explosion of this forum - but it's the new members that keep any forum alive.

5. One of the things that makes this forum work, in particular, is that the friendly, "go ahead and ask your question, we're not going to tell you to RTFM" way that almost all user questions are handled encourages those same users to then answer that same question when someone new asks it. By providing users with the ability to ask a question - even if it has been asked thirty times in the last two days, we then give them the courage and support necessary for them to feel comfortable using Linux as a whole, and Ubuntu in particular. When people feel comfortable they tend to share. That's the entire point of Ubuntu.

[arctic]

3. The general nature of a forum dedicated to technical support means that the same exact question will be asked many, many times; regardless of the fact that a giant blinking neon sign directing people to a search function is covering half of their screen. Most people are not lazy for not using the search button - they are uncomfortable using it because they aren't sure that they will use the correct term in the search or that they even know exactly what the problem is. Yes most users can use google without a second thought, but that's because they know what they are searching for.
agreed. most users really don't know what problems they are facing, as most users hardly know to activate the on/off switch on their computer and define their monitor as the computer. :D but nontheless, a small explanation at registration might help. it needs to be 90% idiotproof, though. a hard task to accomplish.
4. Doing anything to majorly decrease the number of "duplicate" threads will stop the influx of new forum members dead in it's tracks. Why? Because you've just sent a giant neon signal to that new user that they are not valuable enough to ask a question. Granted some people may want to slow or even halt the population explosion of this forum - but it's the new members that keep any forum alive. actually, there are no "stupid questions". only stupid answers, right? i was merely pointing out that some persons of whom i really KNOW that they do know a lot about gnu/linux were very active answering questions in detail when the board was created and somehow seem to have lost "enthusiasm" during the last months. instead they discuss more and more other stuff. well... this is their full right, but it hurts on the long haul if an ever decreasing number of veteran users is willing to share their knowledge, imho
5. One of the things that makes this forum work, in particular, is that the friendly, "go ahead and ask your question, we're not going to tell you to RTFM" way that almost all user questions are handled encourages those same users to then answer that same question when someone new asks it. By providing users with the ability to ask a question - even if it has been asked thirty times in the last two days, we then give them the courage and support necessary for them to feel comfortable using Linux as a whole, and Ubuntu in particular. When people feel comfortable they tend to share. That's the entire point of Ubuntu.
i agree 100%. people have been very friendly in here and i never saw a rtfm post till these days. i hope this will stay that way. i can number a dozen forums where rtfm was the standard answer to everything and especially expert-users demonstrated this elitist and uncooperative attitude. in other forums, i would have been told to go to hell after starting such a discussion. :D
so... let's keep up the good atmosphere in here and augment it with more and more shared information on linux. the more we give to the community, the more we and others will get in return. (even if its only a little "thank you" from time to time) ;)