PDA

View Full Version : ubuntu is a free/open source soft, why not the board is one of the open source also??



Gandalf
April 3rd, 2005, 08:37 PM
Hello,
i was just wondering about this, ubuntu is a free/open source project, why the board is a paid one?? vbulletin cost a lot and it's not actually the best board, personnaly i tried phpBB (sucks) vbulletin( sucks, the smile don't even work here ) invision board (good enough) SMF (the best),
i don't know but i've found SMF being one of the best board soft running world wide, it has automated everything, stable, fast and secured, check i on http://www.simplemachines.org
my forum is on http://www.siemens-mobiles.org/forum/index.php (or just http://www.siemens-mobiles.org to see the mambo-smf integration)

hope to get some comments about this subject, just want to know why vbulletin board is used and not SMF for example

kassetra
April 3rd, 2005, 08:49 PM
hope to get some comments about this subject, just want to know why vbulletin board is used and not SMF for example

Well, vbulletin is what the administrator chose. What I believe is that vbulletin had all of the features that the administrator wanted and he was also comfortable with setting it up and using it.

It's his personal preference - and since it doesn't affect the users greatly, I feel that it's also his choice.

Gandalf
April 3rd, 2005, 08:54 PM
Well, vbulletin is what the administrator chose. What I believe is that vbulletin had all of the features that the administrator wanted and he was also comfortable with setting it up and using it.

It's his personal preference - and since it doesn't affect the users greatly, I feel that it's also his choice.
yes indeed i know that, just asking (if you want the administrator about that :D ) because it's a bit strange you know

kassetra
April 3rd, 2005, 08:56 PM
yes indeed i know that, just asking (if you want the administrator about that :D ) because it's a bit strange you know

Hmmm. I'm not sure I find it strange, actually. I don't see why if Ubuntu is free as in cost that the forums should be free as in cost as well.

az
April 3rd, 2005, 10:27 PM
I had asked the same question. It would look better to run a server with ubuntu and host the forums with a bb package that were actually a part of the dirstribution.

But the fact that it would make a great impression is not really important. The proof is that there is a great portion of the Ubuntu community around this website.

It's like political correctness. Does it matter than the stamps used to mail out the ShipIt cds are not made from recycled paper?

HungSquirrel
April 3rd, 2005, 10:56 PM
I think the site originally used phpBB. Unfortunately, commercial solutions such as vBulletin and IPB seem to have better features and security reputations than their free counterparts.

kassetra
April 3rd, 2005, 10:59 PM
I think the site originally used phpBB. Unfortunately, commercial solutions such as vBulletin and IPB seem to have better features and security reputations than their free counterparts.

Hmmm, I don't think this site ever did, actually... and it really comes down less to better features and security - and more to what exactly the administrator was looking for, or as close to exact as possible.

In this case, I believe vbulletin had close to exactly what he wanted.

panickedthumb
April 3rd, 2005, 11:35 PM
Hmmm, I don't think this site ever did, actually... and it really comes down less to better features and security - and more to what exactly the administrator was looking for, or as close to exact as possible.

In this case, I believe vbulletin had close to exactly what he wanted.
It did use phpBB for a while, yes. When I came aboard (early-mid october) they had just switched to vbulletin.

Gandalf
April 3rd, 2005, 11:44 PM
I think the site originally used phpBB. Unfortunately, commercial solutions such as vBulletin and IPB seem to have better features and security reputations than their free counterparts.
who said that???
well SMF is open source, vbulletin is closed source
linux is open source, windows is closed source

just by this two lines you should know what i mean now :D

panickedthumb
April 4th, 2005, 12:49 AM
I think everyone knows what you mean. It's not a difficult concept. The forums are running a close source forum package, and Ubuntu is open-source, and some people think that's a conflict of interest.

However, using your same point in comparing two things that are open/closed source:

The Linux Kernel is open source, BitKeeper, the program that Linus Torvalds uses to organize the kernel source, is closed-source.

There are places for both open and closed source software, and there's no reason that the two can't cooperate and interact. If you can't find something to fit your needs that is open source, and don't know how or don't have enough time to program your own, then closed source, proprietary software is sometimes what you choose to do, unless you want to sit and twiddle your thumbs waiting for someone to come up with an open source solution.

Gandalf
April 4th, 2005, 01:23 AM
I think everyone knows what you mean. It's not a difficult concept. The forums are running a close source forum package, and Ubuntu is open-source, and some people think that's a conflict of interest.

However, using your same point in comparing two things that are open/closed source:

The Linux Kernel is open source, BitKeeper, the program that Linus Torvalds uses to organize the kernel source, is closed-source.

There are places for both open and closed source software, and there's no reason that the two can't cooperate and interact. If you can't find something to fit your needs that is open source, and don't know how or don't have enough time to program your own, then closed source, proprietary software is sometimes what you choose to do, unless you want to sit and twiddle your thumbs waiting for someone to come up with an open source solution.
ok, just read this (http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=16971.msg140624#msg140624)

panickedthumb
April 4th, 2005, 01:42 AM
ok, just read this (http://www.simplemachines.org/community/index.php?topic=16971.msg140624#msg140624)
OK I agree with everything the poster said, 100%.

I'm just not sure why his marketing strategies using open-source make his forum software fit our needs. It looks like a nice forum framework, but it's ultimately up to ubuntu-geek which forum is best for what the forum's goals are. The poist you linked to doesn't explain why we should use Open Source, it only explains why he opened the source, which wasn't for the philosophy, it was to make money.

Furthermore, I'm not saying you don't have a good point-- you do. I just don't agree with it under the circumstances ;)

Gandalf
April 4th, 2005, 02:56 AM
OK I agree with everything the poster said, 100%.

I'm just not sure why his marketing strategies using open-source make his forum software fit our needs. It looks like a nice forum framework, but it's ultimately up to ubuntu-geek which forum is best for what the forum's goals are. The poist you linked to doesn't explain why we should use Open Source, it only explains why he opened the source, which wasn't for the philosophy, it was to make money.

Furthermore, I'm not saying you don't have a good point-- you do. I just don't agree with it under the circumstances ;)
lol ok, all i wanted to say in this topic, that as linux (open source is better than any paid/free OS) SMF (open source) is better then any (Paid/free forum soft) and that is my opinion ;)

panickedthumb
April 4th, 2005, 03:01 AM
OK cool. ;)

Did I read that right, that SMF is the remnants of yaBB taken over and improved? Because I DID love yaBB.

Gandalf
April 4th, 2005, 03:03 AM
OK cool. ;)

Did I read that right, that SMF is the remnants of yaBB taken over and improved? Because I DID love yaBB.
exaclty, and if you want to try it, i can setup one in 5 minutes and give you admin rights to see it

panickedthumb
April 4th, 2005, 03:10 AM
Well, not remnants, since it appears that yaBB is still going. I thought they'd shut down.

Anyway, like I said, I don't think that closed source is bad for this forum, but if there are better open source solutions, I'd be interested, and ubuntu-geek wouldn't be against at least looking at it if he has the time.

So check your pm in a few minutes, I gotta run for a sec.

Gandalf
April 4th, 2005, 03:11 AM
Well, not remnants, since it appears that yaBB is still going. I thought they'd shut down.

Anyway, like I said, I don't think that closed source is bad for this forum, but if there are better open source solutions, I'd be interested, and ubuntu-geek wouldn't be against at least looking at it if he has the time.

So check your pm in a few minutes, I gotta run for a sec.
no problem

defkewl
April 4th, 2005, 06:03 AM
I personally like vBulletin, much better than phpBB. What I like most is the threading feature. This is one of the reason kept me staying around here. Neat

Gandalf
April 4th, 2005, 11:49 AM
I personally like vBulletin, much better than phpBB. What I like most is the threading feature. This is one of the reason kept me staying around here. Neat
oh that i agree to :P phpBB is known but it's crap

ubuntu-geek
April 4th, 2005, 04:02 PM
who said that???
well SMF is open source, vbulletin is closed source
linux is open source, windows is closed source

just by this two lines you should know what i mean now :D

Actually just because vbulletin is "closed source" doesn't really mean its closed source. If you purchase a license you get 100% code and you can make modifications to any of it as long as its not re-distributed.

With that said I choose Vbb over many different forum software for a few reasons.

1. vbb has a good reputation for being secure.
2. vbb is provided with all source so I can make modifications as i need
3. vbb has functions other forum software do not have and those features will be implemented on this forum in the near future.
4. vbb integrated with the ubuntu mailing lists
5. and many more..

The forums did run phpbb when I first started it did not meet the expectations I had.

With that said, many linux forums run vbb I do not believe just because the linux distro is open source we should have to give up functionaly and use a forum software that doesn't fit into the overall plan for that particular forum.

Gandalf
April 4th, 2005, 04:08 PM
Actually just because vbulletin is "closed source" doesn't really mean its closed source. If you purchase a license you get 100% code and you can make modifications to any of it as long as its not re-distributed.

With that said I choose Vbb over many different forum software for a few reasons.

1. vbb has a good reputation for being secure.
2. vbb is provided with all source so I can make modifications as i need
3. vbb has functions other forum software do not have and those features will be implemented on this forum in the near future.
4. vbb integrated with the ubuntu mailing lists
5. and many more..

The forums did run phpbb when I first started it did not meet the expectations I had.

With that said, many linux forums run vbb I do not believe just because the linux distro is open source we should have to give up functionaly and use a forum software that doesn't fit into the overall plan for that particular forum.
i'm not saying that you *have to* install vbb just given my opinion on money waste nothing more, *phpbb* that's not what i call a forum, that's an unsecure, unfeartured forum, check SMF and tell me if you like it (moderators have the address/passwords) i'm not asking you to change that's a lot of work to get themes, integration with other softs or etc.... but just giving my opinion and letting people know that there's also some nice/secured/featured/powerfull/open source forum software and telling people who think that vbb or ipb just because they are paid, they are better, that's wrong, SMF also gain money from charter members to developp their software.

ubuntu-geek
April 4th, 2005, 04:25 PM
Gandalph, I agree SMF is shaping up to be a great forum software. However none of the free forum software fit the needs of this forum.

az
April 4th, 2005, 06:15 PM
http://www.cafepress.com/ubuntushop/

http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http://www.cafepress.com

The cafepress ubuntushop runs on windows. Big deal.


Look, everybody has their beliefs. I chose to not run proprietairy software on my machines. I do not loose any sleep visiting proprietairy software driven websites. You have to draw the line somewhere.

Some people would chose not to open a letter that was mailed in a non-recycled paper envelope. Whatever turns you on.

Anyway.

Look at this:

http://www.affero.org/oagpl.html
(It is the GPL with the added clause:)
"* d) If the Program as you received it is intended to interact with users through a computer network and if, in the version you received, any user interacting with the Program was given the opportunity to request transmission to that user of the Program's complete source code, you must not remove that facility from your modified version of the Program or work based on the Program, and must offer an equivalent opportunity for all users interacting with your Program through a computer network to request immediate transmission by HTTP of the complete source code of your modified version or other derivative work."

Basically, the gpl applying to client users of a running application as opposed to just the owner of the site.

Is that more your point, or do you just want to promote one piece of software in particular?

Gandalf
April 5th, 2005, 12:46 AM
http://www.cafepress.com/ubuntushop/

http://toolbar.netcraft.com/site_report?url=http://www.cafepress.com

The cafepress ubuntushop runs on windows. Big deal.


Look, everybody has their beliefs. I chose to not run proprietairy software on my machines. I do not loose any sleep visiting proprietairy software driven websites. You have to draw the line somewhere.

Some people would chose not to open a letter that was mailed in a non-recycled paper envelope. Whatever turns you on.

Anyway.

Look at this:

http://www.affero.org/oagpl.html
(It is the GPL with the added clause:)
"* d) If the Program as you received it is intended to interact with users through a computer network and if, in the version you received, any user interacting with the Program was given the opportunity to request transmission to that user of the Program's complete source code, you must not remove that facility from your modified version of the Program or work based on the Program, and must offer an equivalent opportunity for all users interacting with your Program through a computer network to request immediate transmission by HTTP of the complete source code of your modified version or other derivative work."

Basically, the gpl applying to client users of a running application as opposed to just the owner of the site.

Is that more your point, or do you just want to promote one piece of software in particular?
lol this thread getting bigger than it deserved ;) lol in fact i didn't want to promote SMF or anything else, just the first time i visited what we call ubuntu was 3 days ago, i was really impressed by the linux, though i had a sound problem so i searched for a forum, i found this one, and i just been shocked coz even this forum which it looks a bit new forum (not a 5 years old i mean) so i was just wondering why the admin have wasted money with buying vbb and i wanted to ask him so i opened a thread!! that's all so don't get so excited i really wasn't promoting a software or telling the admin that the forum sucks or something else, just a question which i had already the answer (VBB + Mailing List) feature!!! :D

BTW thanks to everyone for your info, it was kinda of usefull info for me!!!

akurashy
April 5th, 2005, 01:08 AM
your kidding right? SMF is one of the worse forum IMO, I really don't know why you said vBulletin sucks, Invision board is the same as vbulletin the fact is that is coded on OOP style and have different skin, though it has the SAME FEATURES, since IPB ripped off all vB feature list :o)

I prefer yabbse, SMF is a branch of yabbse yes though they ruined it.
though let get this over with, phpbb 3 going to kick SMF very badly

Gandalf
April 5th, 2005, 01:18 AM
your kidding right? SMF is one of the worse forum IMO, I really don't know why you said vBulletin sucks, Invision board is the same as vbulletin the fact is that is coded on OOP style and have different skin, though it has the SAME FEATURES, since IPB ripped off all vB feature list :o)

I prefer yabbse, SMF is a branch of yabbse yes though they ruined it.
though let get this over with, phpbb 3 going to kick SMF very badly
SMF is bad :o that's a weird, so weird analyse of a software, can i ask you why you are saying that SMF sucks, not only one (and i mean it) not only one user have tried SMF and said it sucks, and ae you kidding, phpbb kicks off SMF lol , phpbb is not even an approach of what we call a forum lol :D

akurashy
April 5th, 2005, 01:37 AM
SMF is bad :o that's a weird, so weird analyse of a software, can i ask you why you are saying that SMF sucks, not only one (and i mean it) not only one user have tried SMF and said it sucks, and ae you kidding, phpbb kicks off SMF lol , phpbb is not even an approach of what we call a forum lol :D


phpBB: http://area51.phpbb.com/phpBB/ : I call that a forum, smooth yet better than SMF :p

SMF have a lack of features, yet not completed, their official skin is ugly as hell, yet at least something i like about SMF is their support (amen).

i have tried a lot of boards gandalf, and one of the worse board i have installed is SMF, is of course my opinion, is really very stupid to tell someone using vB one of the best bulletin boards to downgrade to SMF.

panickedthumb
April 5th, 2005, 01:48 AM
I would like to point out that through this whole ordeal, I remain not caring at all about what forum software is used here, as long as it fits the goals. The upcoming features aren't implemented in anything other than vbulletin (that I know of) and they'll really improve the dynamic of the forums (and no, don't ask what, that's still under wraps ;) we like to surprise people).

I never meant to advocate the use of SMF, or to say that any forum software is better than any other, I am just open to any new ideas that would help us implement our needs. SMF, and as far as I can tell, all the others, do not. As far as the forum has evolved, and is continuing to evolve, even trying to implemet these things in a new forum framework would cause too much downtime and buggy upgrades.

Gandalf
April 5th, 2005, 01:48 AM
just wanna laugh on one thing (don't mean any offence) but SMF has a lack of feature compared to phpbb :D lol ok i just wanna give you some links, and tell me by yourself
http://www.siemens-mobiles.org/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=41 (SMF under mambo (wraped)
http://www.siemens-mobiles.org/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=41&expv=0&action=mm SMF's member map under mambo wraped
http://www.siemens-mobiles.org/forum/index.php (SMF unwraped)
http://www.siemens-mobiles.org/forum/index.php?action=mm (SMF's member map unwraped)
http://www.nasreddine.com/ubuntu/ a fresh install of SMF without adding even a new section, opened for the ubuntu forum moderators to test

compare this board with
http://www.oslik.ru

do you see the differences,
i think you mean SMF sucks because the permissions are a bit hard to apadt them but in fact the permissions are the easiest/powerul thing in SMF just need to know how it works

panickedthumb
April 5th, 2005, 02:19 AM
To be fair, I HAVE seen phpBB wrapped in Mambo and looking nice before.

How much does vbulletin cost anyway? *L*

Gandalf
April 5th, 2005, 02:22 AM
To be fair, I HAVE seen phpBB wrapped in Mambo and looking nice before.

How much does vbulletin cost anyway? *L*
check http://www.vbulletin.com/order/

panickedthumb
April 5th, 2005, 02:24 AM
check http://www.vbulletin.com/order/
Yeah I did. ;) I don't know why I didn't htink of that. I'm lazy I guess

Gandalf
April 5th, 2005, 02:25 AM
Yeah I did. ;) I don't know why I didn't htink of that. I'm lazy I guess
lol :lol:

defkewl
April 5th, 2005, 05:51 PM
I don't know about phpBB Olympus though. Will it be as good as vB?

Jujimufu
April 7th, 2005, 12:21 AM
What is your site about Gandalf? Siemens-mobile? Cell phones?
----

I've been using vbulletin for, going into my third year. The reason I chose it instead of browsing for more open source solutions is, because sometimes you just want to pay the money to get the guarantee + The source is open after purchasing a license, so it's not an idiot's solution: It's highly configurable and the userbase is expansive. It's powerful and pretty, and having bitten the bullet I know I got something good. Now it's become xhtml compatible all the way to the bone for those shifting into developing with web standards. I don't have a problem with admin running a closed source software solution for an open source concept like Ubuntu; He's paying for the license, the forums offer free registration, excellent. I do the same on my forum. I pay for it, it's my responsibility // and it's open to all.

bored2k
April 7th, 2005, 12:25 AM
What is your site about Gandalf? Siemens-mobile? Cell phones?
----

I've been using vbulletin for, going into my third year. The reason I chose it instead of browsing for more open source solutions is, because sometimes you just want to pay the money to get the guarantee + The source is open after purchasing a license, so it's not an idiot's solution: It's highly configurable and the userbase is expansive. It's powerful and pretty, and having bitten the bullet I know I got something good. Now it's become xhtml compatible all the way to the bone for those shifting into developing with web standards. I don't have a problem with admin running a closed source software solution for an open source concept like Ubuntu; He's paying for the license, the forums offer free registration, excellent. I do the same on my forum. I pay for it, it's my responsibility // and it's open to all.
Siemens-mobiles.org
Maybe mobile phones? Maybe Siemes? [could be Nokia though!]

Gandalf
April 7th, 2005, 01:49 AM
What is your site about Gandalf? Siemens-mobile? Cell phones?
----

I've been using vbulletin for, going into my third year. The reason I chose it instead of browsing for more open source solutions is, because sometimes you just want to pay the money to get the guarantee + The source is open after purchasing a license, so it's not an idiot's solution: It's highly configurable and the userbase is expansive. It's powerful and pretty, and having bitten the bullet I know I got something good. Now it's become xhtml compatible all the way to the bone for those shifting into developing with web standards. I don't have a problem with admin running a closed source software solution for an open source concept like Ubuntu; He's paying for the license, the forums offer free registration, excellent. I do the same on my forum. I pay for it, it's my responsibility // and it's open to all.
yes it is about siemens tuning etc...

well in fact i agree, because i didn't said that he *must* use open source i said it was (in my opinion) better to go with open source, that's all what i meant

@bored2k lol :lol:

Owdy
October 22nd, 2005, 11:15 AM
Gandalph, I agree SMF is shaping up to be a great forum software. However none of the free forum software fit the needs of this forum.
What feature is missing from SMF what you need in here?

Snakey
October 22nd, 2005, 12:08 PM
vBulletin is a bit open source, the only thing what makes it NOT a FULL open source web software, is the fact that you can't redistribute it. BUT you CAN change everything, you'll get the full source code. Just like you have to pay for Red Hat, you need to pay for vB, it's a one-time fee, it's about 120. This includes 1 year support and access to download from members area. If this year ends, you'll need to pay 60 to extend the support for another year. I think this kind of support applies to almost EVERY opensource application.

panickedthumb
October 22nd, 2005, 02:59 PM
What feature is missing from SMF what you need in here?
Lots. The gallery and the Blogs to name a few (thouigh the blogs aren't here anymore).

Owdy
October 22nd, 2005, 09:22 PM
Yes, smf is bbs, not photo gallery software. If you want photogallery, apps like Coppermine integrates easily.

mlomker
October 22nd, 2005, 10:08 PM
Yeah I did. ;) I don't know why I didn't htink of that. I'm lazy I guess

$160? It's clear that many of you have never run a popular website. My employer (http://www.mpr.org) spends $5k/month on bandwidth alone for a website and some audio streams.

Gandalf
October 23rd, 2005, 08:15 AM
Lots. The gallery and the Blogs to name a few (thouigh the blogs aren't here anymore).
SMF is a forum software, as far as i heard they are planning for a CMS, but just to answear your question, i have built an example site ( http://www.arabic-lounge.com ) with Joomla ( http://www.joomla.org the best CMS), SMF ( http://www.simplemachines.org , in my opinion Best open-source/free Forum software world-wide) and coppermine( http://coppermine-gallery.net Best photo gallery) so go ahead browse the site a bit and you will notice that they are integrated better than this one is done (each member has his own gallery and you can access the member gallery by a single click from within a topic... just try it :D)

I hope my answear was clear, anyway long life to open source :D

Snakey
October 23rd, 2005, 10:26 AM
SMF is a forum software, as far as i heard they are planning for a CMS, but just to answear your question, i have built an example site ( http://www.arabic-lounge.com ) with Joomla ( http://www.joomla.org the best CMS), SMF ( http://www.simplemachines.org , in my opinion Best open-source/free Forum software world-wide) and coppermine( http://coppermine-gallery.net Best photo gallery) so go ahead browse the site a bit and you will notice that they are integrated better than this one is done (each member has his own gallery and you can access the member gallery by a single click from within a topic... just try it :D)

I hope my answear was clear, anyway long life to open source :DThis could also be easily done in vB, just change a template and the gallery is integrated.

stoeptegel
October 23rd, 2005, 11:04 AM
I think a personal choice is important, because you have to feel comfortable with the soft you're working with. Btw, the german kubuntu forum (http://www.kubuntu.de/forum/) uses unclassified news board, i think that's a sexy boardsoft. ;)

Gandalf
October 23rd, 2005, 12:39 PM
This could also be easily done in vB, just change a template and the gallery is integrated.
Exactly, but if i gave you the choice between Two Beer bottles one free and one for 121€ honestly which one you choose ;)

stubby
October 23rd, 2005, 01:16 PM
to be honest i found it hard trying to use ubuntuforums (and vBulletin boards in general). I just don't like how everything's arranged.

The only forum that i truly find easy to use would be

forums.whirlpool.net.au

features such as going to the first unread post in a subscribed thread is useful. saves me from wading through unneccessary posts that I've read. being able to tell how many new posts have been posted since you last visited is useful. Quoting text (from another user) is also really easy to do. Everything is intuitive.

as far as i know, the site was created using coldfusion.

perhaps these features are available right now with vBulletin (in which case i wouldn't mind being enlightened), but generally I find it a pain to use.

Snakey
October 23rd, 2005, 02:27 PM
Exactly, but if i gave you the choice between Two Beer bottles one free and one for 121€ honestly which one you choose ;) That depends on the quality. I don't want to use a buggy system with the possibility to be defaced.
(I'm not saying SMF is buggy*, just anwsering to your bottles of beer :p)

vB and SMF both have a slight different approach to what they see as a "forum", SMF obviously fits your needs and vB *most probably * fits the needs of Ubuntugeek, mine 2 ;)

And I must say, on certain cases, SMF has (or had) some advantages over vB with the feature to install different packages, now it's comparable to the extensions/plugins/products system vB uses.

I also prefer the way styles, phrases are stored, not as plain text in a php-file, but in the database, it's easy to adjust these with plugins/products (in SMF: packages) without even go to or type the pass for ftp-access (and making sure it's all 777) and I guess updating to a newer vB will get more easier than it already was.


*: buggy forum-software: phpBB

Gandalf
October 23rd, 2005, 02:35 PM
Yeah you're right about vB being better to UbuntuGeek eyes anyway it's his website and eventually his choice, talking about more features, quoting this 2 links will be enough to answer you :


Show unread posts since last visit.
Show new replies to your posts.
as you can see the "Show new replies to your posts." save me hours searching replies on topics i replied to or i created, here i have to go to profile, show posts and etc.... in SMF a single click ;) and i guess a huge community like ubuntuforums.org needs this feature s badly at least members can find out that there's replies on topic they replied to (or created) without the need to do "Auto-subscribe to topics after replying", do you realize how many mails i get from this forum daily just to know when someone reply on a topic i replied ??? well if you can bring me an alternative solution in vB then vB is good, otherwize vB is crap..

and BTW, i worked on a forum where themes are stored in database and i get to say that it ain't a good way, maybe updating the forum will be easy (I doubt that because only dumb ppl change the default theme and use it without copying it to a new folder) but Changing a theme manually (something you need to modify) is hell, What if you screwed up the theme and you can't access the board anymore, will you risk it and go edit it via PMA paying attention on special characters :roll: ?

;)

Snakey
October 23rd, 2005, 02:56 PM
LOL, in vB you will not be able to change the MAIN theme, only the default theme, and add extra themes, but every template in the theme that has been changed, can be reverted back to the main theme in one click (every single theme is a modification to the main theme). Thus, the themes are stored in a GOOD way in the database. Also, the theme has NOTHING to do with the admincp: the admincp is themed in plain css.

About your links, some can be found as a search filter in the Search mode (Get all new posts). Show new replies to your posts, isn't there (only show your posts/threads) but could be easily made (It would just be the "Show your threads"-link but with &searchdate=lastvisit in it)

BTW, to stop the "spam" look @ this page for Default Thread Subscription Mode (http://ubuntuforums.org/profile.php?do=editoptions), ubuntugeek had probably set instant notification as default
(http://ubuntuforums.org/profile.php?do=editoptions)

Gandalf
October 23rd, 2005, 03:00 PM
LOL, in vB you will not be able to change the MAIN theme, only the default theme, and add extra themes, but every template in the theme that has been changed, can be reverted back to the main theme in one click (every single theme is a modification to the main theme). Thus, the themes are stored in a GOOD way in the database. Also, the theme has NOTHING to do with the admincp: the admincp is themed in plain css.

About your links, some can be found as a search filter in the Search mode (Get all new posts). Show new replies to your posts, isn't there (only show your posts/threads) but could be easily made (It would just be the "Show your threads"-link but with &searchdate=lastvisit in it)

BTW, to stop the "spam" look @ this page for Default Thread Subscription Mode (http://ubuntuforums.org/profile.php?do=editoptions), ubuntugeek had probably set instant notification as default
(http://ubuntuforums.org/profile.php?do=editoptions)
Well anyway everyone has his own opinion, after all you're talking about paying 121€ for the same Piece of software where you can get the similar one for free, i don't know how you think, but I Prefer paying 100€ / year to SMF instead of Paying 1 cent to vB because SMF deserve it as it doesn't force you to pay while vB do for the same piece of software, same support not exactly same features but Personaly I will never quit SMF because SMF is what i call a forum software...



Elegant, powerful, easy, and free.
http://www.simplemachines.org
and it's True...

and BTW i have made it to Instant Notification by email to all topics i reply to or create because i prefer spam my mail instead of wasting my time finding out what topics i replied to have new replies..

to you :D

Snakey
October 23rd, 2005, 03:15 PM
I think they both deserve to get money for what they are doing, but vB is made by Jelsoft, and Jelsoft is an normal company, they want to earn money. Is this wrong? And for SMF: Lewis Media sells Web Admin for 300$, is this wrong? No, it's quite normal to get money. If the software fits my needs, then I'm happy to pay a bit for it, as long as it's not encoded (like ioncube or zend).

Gandalf
October 23rd, 2005, 03:17 PM
I agree to pay, but honestly i don't like being forced to pay, i don't mind at all pay to help open source because i love open source world, i'm not saying that they don't deserve to get payement but they can get via donations as well as selling :D

Snakey
October 23rd, 2005, 03:49 PM
Open source software doesn't mean you don't have to pay for it ;)
In my point of view, they aren't forcing us to pay. What I call force to pay, is when I buy a dedicated server I need to pay for plesk, I want to have the choice to use cpanel, or just nothing to be on it. Here in my area, I am FORCED to buy a windows-license with every pc (I don't want to start bashing M$, but I'm saying things like they are). Now suppose that I already have a windows-pc, and I want an extra pc for linux, I have to buy the processor seperatly (thus the hardware will be more expensive - because there is no discount, I don't buy a full pc :s) or else, I have to buy windows with it :s.
This is what I call forcing to pay.

az
October 24th, 2005, 01:33 AM
I think they both deserve to get money for what they are doing, but vB is made by Jelsoft, and Jelsoft is an normal company, they want to earn money. Is this wrong?

The point of Free-libre open source software is that it is not property. You can charge for your work, but you cannot say that you own the collection of ideas that makes up your software. That is the pivotal point of free software - everybody owns it.

So, jelsoft deserve everything they earn, what people tend to dissagree with is the licencing. The typical business model for free open source is to get paid for your work (like providing the code and supporting it) and not to get paid for preventing people from using and improving it.

bigdufstuff
October 29th, 2005, 08:51 AM
From the ubuntu philosophy page


At the core of the Ubuntu Philosophy of Software Freedom are these core philosophical ideals:

1. Every computer user should have the freedom to run, copy, distribute, study, share, change and improve their software for any purpose, without paying licensing fees.
2. Every computer user should be able to use their software in the language of their choice.
3. Every computer user should be given every opportunity to use software, even if they work under a disability.


seems to me that there is a conflict of interest and this goes directly against the ubuntu philosophy.

bigdufstuff
October 29th, 2005, 08:34 PM
is ubuntuforums.org officially affiliated with ubuntulinux.org? If so I stand by my previous post, otherwise it doesn't make much sense.

mlomker
October 29th, 2005, 08:36 PM
is ubuntuforums.org officially affiliated with ubuntulinux.org? If so I stand by my previous post, otherwise it doesn't make much sense.

It's affiliated but not operated by them.

az
October 30th, 2005, 01:34 AM
From the ubuntu philosophy page



seems to me that there is a conflict of interest and this goes directly against the ubuntu philosophy.


The forums are a web service. In what way does that impede you from running, copying, distributing, studying, sharing, changing and improving some software?

To clarify, UbuntuGeek has the freedom to do all of that. He also has the choice to use software that denies him those rights. It does not affect the user of the web service since you do not have to run vBuletin on your computer to access the Ubuntuforums.

bigdufstuff
October 30th, 2005, 05:28 AM
The forums are a web service. In what way does that impede you from running, copying, distributing, studying, sharing, changing and improving some software?

To clarify, UbuntuGeek has the freedom to do all of that. He also has the choice to use software that denies him those rights. It does not affect the user of the web service since you do not have to run vBuletin on your computer to access the Ubuntuforums.

UbuntuGeek has been denied the right to share and distribute the code at no license cost to him. So a piece of the ubuntu infrastructure relies on code that denies the very freedoms that their philosophy pushes for, when there are alternatives available that work.

aysiu
October 30th, 2005, 06:13 AM
UbuntuGeek has been denied the right to share and distribute the code at no license cost to him. So a piece of the ubuntu infrastructure relies on code that denies the very freedoms that their philosophy pushes for, when there are alternatives available that work. You do realize that this is the whole reason Gnome was created, right? KDE was based on a not-entirely-free tool.

bigdufstuff
October 30th, 2005, 07:52 AM
You do realize that this is the whole reason Gnome was created, right? KDE was based on a not-entirely-free tool.

yes.

I just think if Ubuntu is going to speak of its free software philosophy it should base its infrastructure on free software. It makes the most sense to me and is the most consistant.

sas
October 30th, 2005, 10:22 AM
Uhm, LaunchPad itself isn't open source as far as I remember. So arguing that the forums should run on open source sort of pales in comparison I think.

Snakey
October 30th, 2005, 10:40 AM
Their philosophy was for software to be used on your own desktop. These forums (which is only affiliated to Ubuntu/Can./Mark) & launchpad is a service that you can use for free, you can spread the word about these forums for free. You can contribute on it for free. What do you want more?

az
October 31st, 2005, 02:22 AM
UbuntuGeek has been denied the right to share and distribute the code at no license cost to him.

Yay for freedom of choice! He is not chosing for you. You are not running it. He is running it on his property.


So a piece of the ubuntu infrastructure relies on code that denies the very freedoms that their philosophy pushes for, when there are alternatives available that work.

I am a FLOSS zealot and I see what you mean. However, the basic reality is that the GPL is a contract between the author of the code and the person who runs it. Take a look at this: http://www.affero.org/oagpl.html

Quote:
"The GNU General Public License does an excellent job of protecting freedoms for users and developers, but there are questions about the applicablity of the license for software that is run over a network.

Since Affero's software is run over a network, and since we believe that the freedom should be fully protected, we have decided to publish yet another license.

You will find it nearly identical to the GNU GPL, with an addition of section 2 (d), which covers use of the software over a computer network. We're sorry for the inconvenience of another license.

And yes, we did get permission to use the GNU GPL as the basis for this license;)"

Now, perhaps one day, FLOSS licencing may cover the additional ground covered by the affero GPL. And to be honest, if software like Drupal or OScommerce were affero-GPL licenced today, I would be ecstatic! But, realistically, we are not there yet.

Collin
November 2nd, 2005, 11:54 PM
When it comes to board the best one I saw is http://www.xvi.com

I don't think it's open source but it was build from the ground up by some dude in Ottawa. Maybe he'd want to share the source

pompeyjohn
November 30th, 2005, 09:18 PM
ok, so ... just out of curiousity ... would the theme used here be available for free? I have just setup (an open source focused) vbulletin site and I am looking around for a theme. This is by far the best theme (or board) that I know of and I would be delighted if I come immitate this in any way.

Snakey
November 30th, 2005, 09:23 PM
No, its a paid skin, made by vbstyles.com....

pompeyjohn
November 30th, 2005, 09:43 PM
No, its a paid skin, made by vbstyles.com....

Cool. Do you know which one it is, or if it is bespoke?

Snakey
November 30th, 2005, 10:05 PM
It's the element skin, but the colors here are custom made (brown), the kubuntu-style has the original colors. (the package contains a blue version and a purple one)

kassetra
November 30th, 2005, 10:08 PM
No, its a paid skin, made by vbstyles.com....
No, the skin was a template I and the other admins used to create the themes used on the forum. Almost all aspects of the themes have been customized

pompeyjohn
November 30th, 2005, 10:14 PM
No, the skin was a template I and the other admins used to create the themes used on the forum. Almost all aspects of the themes have been customized

Well congratulations, I think it is excellent. I am going to check out what is available for free / min cost and try to hack something together. If yourself, or anyone would like to help - please pm me. cheers.

Snakey
November 30th, 2005, 10:14 PM
Nevertheless, there are some very big similarities with: http://www.vbstyles.com/forum/index.php?styleid=140
Of course, you've modified the header and footer and colors,... with some tweaks...

And still; the footer says: Modified element skin from vbstyles.com

;)

ubuntu-geek
November 30th, 2005, 10:35 PM
Yes the base skin is element kass changed all the icons and colors for the forums etc etc.. and made it look all cool and fun :)

vampire_janus
December 3rd, 2005, 01:42 PM
puzzles me

jrodman
September 18th, 2006, 12:02 PM
Ubuntu using non-free components for critical infrustructure has the following subtext:

"We (ubuntu) suggest you should run your personal and commercial systems on our provided free-software system, even though we ourselves are not willing or capable of doing so."

That is, it undermines the implied worth of free software, or suggests that Ubuntu does not realize the worth of free software, which suggests that people who do realize it should look elsewhere.

This not to say that there are not benefits to making this choice, or that the choice is invalid. This is simply the problem with this choice.

matthew
September 18th, 2006, 02:44 PM
This has been asked so many times a sticky was made (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=176622) to give the reasons for it. I'll refer anyone interested there and close this ancient, but resurrected thread.