Read this awful "attitude" I experienced from the SUSE Forums!!!

[dvarsam]

Hello all!

I experienced this Today at the SUSE Forums:

I had decided to create the following "Poll" in there:

http://www.suseforums.net/index.php?showtopic=22585

Hello all!

Whenever I enter a SUSE Forum, I want to be able to see how fast "users" are responding to "other users" requests...

Unfortunately, whenever I enter the SUSE Forum, I see that the "Last Post Info" column states date/time as following:

1. Aug 5 2006, 02:03 AM

2. Today, 09:09 PM

3. Yesterday, 01:43 PM


A. Regarding the Date shown, I believe that the writing format as:

1. Today

2. Yesterday

3. 2 days ago

4. 3 days ago,

5. 1 month ago,

6. Etc, etc.

(In my opiniion), It is ok.


B. Regarding the Time shown, the writting format being used, like:

1. 02:03 AM

2. 09:09 PM

3. 01:43 PM

(In my opinion), It is very confusing & totally unacceptable!!!

My Country' s locat time is 22:20 pm?

In relation to my Local Time, how many hours ago, was post #1 (as depicted above), were posted in the Forum?

I would either have to guess, or create a "null" post, just to figure out the time difference...

Not only I am asked to "go figure out" what time the above posting was really posted, but after I figure out, I am expected/forced to memorize what the Time difference of the Forum's Time is, in relation to my Local/Coutry time...

Why do I have to bother figuring out the time, man?


The time should be listed as following:

1. 10 min ago

2. 20 min ago

3. 1 hour ago

4. 23 hours ago

5. 1 day ago

6. 1 month ago

7. Etc, etc...


I have decided to turn the above Proposal into a Poll!!!

Please vote, whether you want "Time" be noted/printed in the Forums in the either of the following Formats:

1. 02:03 AM, 09:09 PM, 01:43 PM, etc etc...

OR

2. 10 min ago, 20 min ago, 1 hour ago, 1 day ago, etc etc...


Thanks


I got the following Response from the Administrator (named "kastorff"):

This post is misplaced, and should be in Suggestions, not Polls. In either case, the time format the board uses is not up for vote by the membership. It's driven by the board software, and the local time zone of the server, which is US Eastern time.

Thanks for the feedback, but we won't be modifying the board code.


At the same time, he goes out & decides to close my Thread!!!

The "Poll" I created, which was basically asking the "users" to decide, was totally banned!!!

I got pissed off & decided to PM the SUSE's administrator (named "kastorff":


Hello!

You closed my Thread!!!

Why?

You can "force" your administration's opinions to this Forum, but have you ever considered asking what the "users" really want?

How come you "moderators/administrators" administer such actions...???

No offense, but that is why Ubuntu distro's Forum, is doing so much better compared to your Forum!

It is much more "democratic" oriented & best of all, they give the opportunity to the Users to suggest things or even create polls, for the improvement of the Forums...

Thanks.

P.S.> Now that I have personally seen in hand your "attitude" towards the users, I will personally reconsider buying your products now, or (even) in the near future...
Thanks again!!!

Conclusion:

No wonder why Ubuntu is doing so great!!!

The moderators in this Forum are much more understanding, compared to other moderators (on competitive Linux OS products)...

Ubuntu Moderators: Keep up the good work!!!

[bluntu]

*cough* *cough*..

Not sure if this post should be out here. eheheh

[panickedthumb]

moving this to "Other Linux Talk" since it's about the suse forums.

[kabus]

That Suse guy sounds completely reasonable.

[aysiu]

I don't see how that's any different.

The administrators of this forum have the same policy on a lot of things: "We said so." Maybe not for time zones, but I don't see how there's a striking difference in approach.

[win_zik]

That Suse guy sounds completely reasonable.

What he said.

Seriously, I can't see why you consider the response awful.
He explained to you that you wrote your suggestion in the wrong section and he als explained that implementing your suggestion would mean changing the code of the software running this board, something the admins understandably aren't willing to do.

[Iandefor]

mmm... well, the thread-closing was probably unnecessary, but a forum isn't a democracy.

[Titus A Duxass]

What do you expect!
You march in after 3 posts and start ranting about the format of a perfectly good forum.

I am a member of that forum and have always found Karstoff a reasonable guy.

And you forget one important thing, it's his bloody forum he can do with it what he likes! If you don't like don't use!

Ungrateful.

[nocturn]

The thing is, this guy is just using some software that is available as we do with vBulletin. As a forum admin, you are still bound by the limitations of the forum software you use.

Sure there are mods and hacks out there, and you could even write one yourself, but that is very time consuming and a highly hacked board is a pain to update.

So, I can understand where this guy stands.

[hizaguchi]

Was the time format really worth all that?

[Footissimo]

The poll is petty, but I can see dvarsam's point - as an admin of a forum (particularly of an 'unofficial' one) you should realise that the 'favour' goes both ways - you provide the forums..the users mean the forums 'work'. You can provide the best looking, most featureful forums ever, but if you're an **** and nobody bothers to post then your forums will fall flat. It's not much to take heed of what your users think about this small matter...

[bruce89]

There was a similar thread in the Forums Discussion into making the post time more specific, but it wasn't closed.

[egon spengler]

moving this to "Other Linux Talk" since it's about the suse forums.


Uh oh, you moved his thread. Expect a post about it on knoppix.net some time in the near future

[manicka]

Keith Kastorff is a terrific guy. You'll get no sympathy from me on this one [-X

[Lord Illidan]

I think you are in the wrong here.

1. There was really no need to put up a poll.
2. You could just have e-mailed or put a suggestion.

[bonzodog]

Sorry, but I agree with everyone else here...your post was badly misplaced, badly worded, and almost demanding.
You should have first checked the section to post in a little more carefully, then thought before you typed.

What you should have said was:

"I have noticed that the times of posts here are in the 12 hour format according to the local server time. This makes it difficult for me personally to work out what time locally they posted. Is it possible to change the time format to something along the lines of '10 minutes ago' or 'one hour ago'?"

Dvarsam, I have noticed that you really are very aggressive in your posts.

Calm down, take a deep breath and try to be more objective, and word the posts better.

I understand you are greek, and your understanding of the English Language may not be great, but if you are stuck with a post, ask someone for the correct grammar to use.

Please?

I think the administrators response was well within bounds.

[RavenOfOdin]

The thing is, this guy is just using some software that is available as we do with vBulletin. As a forum admin, you are still bound by the limitations of the forum software you use.

Sure there are mods and hacks out there, and you could even write one yourself, but that is very time consuming and a highly hacked board is a pain to update.

So, I can understand where this guy stands.

Ditto.

[slimdog360]

alright, hands up all the admins that read this thread and were temped to close it just to be funny. I would have been tempted

[Iandefor]

alright, hands up all the admins that read this thread and were temped to close it just to be funny. I would have been tempted o/

But that would have been just plain... well... stupid.

[dvarsam]

Hello all!
And thanks for all your comments/suggestions.

It took me a long time to realize that I can "subscribe" to a thread & then be able to track all responses...
... so that I can then respond to all users promptly!

I just found this thread again & now I have "subscribed"!!!


Sorry, but I agree with everyone else here...your post was badly misplaced, badly worded, and almost demanding.

It is not bad to "demand"...
Besides, all the world is based on "supply" & "demand".
And if the "supply" does not adapt to the "demand's" needs...
... the "demand" will seize from existence...
... or will move/focus elsewhere.

You should have first checked the section to post in a little more carefully, then thought before you typed.
What you should have said was:

"I have noticed that the times of posts here are in the 12 hour format according to the local server time. This makes it difficult for me personally to work out what time locally they posted.
Is it possible to change the time format to something along the lines of '10 minutes ago' or 'one hour ago'?"


Ok, I could have said this...
But not with the same (successful) way you did...
I'm not a Native English Speaker...
And my vocabulary is limited...

But at the same time think about this:

1. I had spent many hours to download all OpenSuse v10.1 CDs.
2. Then I had to burn on CD.
3. During the install process, I was bombarded with errors and stuff... (installation was unsuccessful!),
4. I decided to download the OpenSuse v10.2 DVD (again: many downloading hours involved here - my DSL speed was 384Kb/sec at those days...)
5. Then again, I had to burn on DVD.
6. I managed to install the DVD finally...
7. I didn't know how to work on my Desktop.
8. I realized that a SUSE Forum exists.
9. I decided to become a member.
10. I then created a post.
11. And realized that I couldn't figure out the Time Formats being adopted by those Forums...
i was trying to figure out how quickly do users reply to posts - trying to make an "average" post reply! And it seemed to be too complicated to follow that Time Format...

I had dedicated many hours on trying to make my SUSE work...
It is logical to feel a little "annoyed" after all this effort done from my side!

As user "I Am The Footissimo" said:

...You can provide the best looking, most featureful forums ever...
..., but if you're an **** and nobody bothers to post then your forums will fall flat.

And even though it might not be such a big deal if some staff is being/acting like an "****",...
...No matter how good this guy has designed his Forum:

The Time Format adopted was & still is impractical!!!

Dvarsam, I have noticed that you really are very aggressive in your posts.
Calm down, take a deep breath and try to be more objective, and word the posts better.

I am a calm person!
But there are times where I can not understand, why it is not possible for some people to understand what is truly obvious!!!
A person must always dedicate time & try to focus on what he is doing wrong and why are things not going in the right direction...

E.g. IF I were him, I would wonder:

1. Why users don't come in my Forum, while the Ubuntu Forums are so popular?
2. What do the Ubuntu Forums have, that my Forum doesn't?
3. What do I need to change, in order to make things better?

I thought, as a new user, I had suggested something to improve his Forums.
I would have probably remained as a member in that Forum, if that guy had done something about it...
It is not a matter about how "mean" he really were...
It was a matter of how practical his Forum were designed...

IF you see your post's date Format is: Today, 10:56 PM
And the reply date Format is: Today, 11:04 PM

Why do I have to bother and "calculate" the difference to find out how many minutes later somebody else replied?
And what about the Time Difference being involved between his Country & Mine?
I might belong in a different Time Zone compared to his Server, so IF I go ahead & post now (e.g. 01:15am Tuesday), his clock is going to say (23:15pm Monday)...
How am I supposed to follow his clock Format adopted...

Conclusion:
You need to have a nuclear scientist degree, in order to follow his Time Format being adopted...
And you need to perform calculations to really find out when you made the post, how many minutes later you got a reply & what Time Zone does the Forum adopt...
Then you need to memorize the Forum's Time Zone being applied...
And you must remember it for all times you create posts in the Future...
What an "intuitive" Forum design is that?

Question:
Is he trying to make my life easier or harder?
You decide...

I understand you are Greek, and your understanding of the English Language may not be great, but if you are stuck with a post, ask someone for the correct grammar to use.
Please?

Clearly spoken...
But, at the same time, imagine IF, every time I need to express something I need to have/ask someone to express/say it better than I did...
How annoying would that be?
Anyway, I had tried my best...
And especially when somebody is chatting in the Forums, maybe people must be flexible and open-minded with other peoples writings...
You can't assume that somebody is mean or bad, just through his writings...
You must always think that other people's way of expression might be more limited compared to yours...

I think the administrators response was well within bounds.

Yes, but his response was not an "open-minded" one...
I could have been a good/loyal SUSE user by now...
What SUSE is missing right now: A good SUSE Forum.

If you can make a Good Forum, users will follow through time!
And because of all the above, I am still staying at the Ubuntu Forums.
However, 3 days ago, OpenSUSE v10.2 got released...

And I would be interested in trying it...
How on Earth am I going to try it, IF there are NO seriously organized SUSE Forum out there...?

Thanks.

P.S.> One of the Best things this Forum (ubuntuforums.org) has, is its ability to respect/consider user's suggestions on how to improve the Forum! I guess that this is very rare to find in other sites...

[Sef]

Ok, I could have said this...
But not with the same (successful) way you did...
I'm not a Native English Speaker...
And my vocabulary is limited...


It is easy to come across the wrong way in English (or any language) when it is not your native language. If there is someone you like, you could ask them for some feedback when you post, so you can improve your English. Learning a language is a never ending process, even when it is your native tongue.

[Starcraftmazter]

I hate to break it to you, but I think the mod was right.

That is how the forum software they use works, and it's not exactly easy to change it, and why should they change it for such a reason?

[dvarsam]

I hate to break it to you, but I think the mod was right.

That is how the forum software they use works, and it's not exactly easy to change it, and why should they change it for such a reason?

Well, I guess this is why Suse Linux will always be #2...!!!
And you know why Ubuntu is #1?
It is all because of user "ubuntu_geek", the man who created this Forum Site!
Ubuntu owes him a lot man!!!
Ubuntu would be nowhere without "ubuntu_geek"...
Thanks.

[Rodneyck]

Was the time format really worth all that?

ROFL...dido.