SuSE vs. Ubuntu

[julian67]

opensuse 10.3 vs Ubuntu 7.10 (http://abhay-techzone.blogspot.com/2007/11/ubuntu-vs-opensuse.html)

I don't find the reviewer very well informed, there are factual errors, and he/she didn't even spell check the article but anyway it's a comparison. I would look for others.

edit: IMO the review is misinformed junk, too much very badly wrong stuff. Ignore it all except the screenshots! This guy claims openSuse's Open Office contains proprietary MS code (!) and also doesn't realise that AppArmor in openSuse has some profiles loaded by default whereas Ubuntu simply ships with it completely unconfigured.

openSuse has 1-Click install for applications so installing apps should be very easy. You can see an example here http://abhay-techzone.blogspot.com/2007/11/1-click-install-of-gimp-24-on-opensuse.html

I haven't used this version of openSuse but heard the 1-Click install is excellent.

[asimon]

and also doesn't realise that AppArmor in openSuse has some profiles loaded by default whereas Ubuntu simply ships with it completely unconfigured.
Well, "completely unconfigured" is not completely true. Ubuntu's apparmor ships just with most profiles run in complain mode:
# aa-status
apparmor module is loaded.
16 profiles are loaded.
3 profiles are in enforce mode.
/usr/lib/cups/backend/cups-pdf
/usr/sbin/cupsd
/usr/sbin/avahi-daemon
13 profiles are in complain mode.
/usr/sbin/identd
/usr/sbin/ntpd
/sbin/klogd
/usr/sbin/nmbd
/sbin/syslogd
/usr/sbin/smbd
/usr/sbin/mysqld
/sbin/syslog-ng
/usr/sbin/traceroute
/usr/sbin/nscd
/bin/ping
/usr/sbin/mdnsd
/usr/sbin/named
7 processes have profiles defined.
3 processes are in enforce mode :
/usr/sbin/avahi-daemon (5910)
/usr/sbin/cupsd (5407)
/usr/sbin/avahi-daemon (5909)
4 processes are in complain mode.
/sbin/klogd (5205)
/sbin/syslogd (5147)
/usr/sbin/mysqld (5552)
/usr/sbin/ntpd (5885)
0 processes are unconfined but have a profile defined.

What amazes me, is how openSUSE stays up-to-date with their stable releases. With some of the build-service repositories you can always have the latest Kernel, KDE, Gnome, Compiz, etc. stuff. Very nice.

[julian67]

complain mode means there is not yet a useful profile, you have to make one yourself ;-)

edit: to correct my earlier post I should say that there are no pre-configured application profiles in Ubuntu's AppArmor. Clearly several daemons and system tools are protected out of the box.

[njparton]

OpenSuSE 10.3 is a great distro in my opinion. It's very professional and integrates perfectly with network services. Windows login, SMB shares, everything that a professional entity would need just works. It's also a beautiful distro, one of my favorite in the looks department. Proprietary codecs and security software can be installed/enabled at install. Plus, you can create an image of the newly installed system (yes, with YaST) and burn it to a disc so you can copy the system to multiple computers quickly.

As for YaST, yes, it sucks. In theory, it's a great idea. Imagine having all your package management and computer administration in the same place, just a few clicks away...but also imagine a horridly small list of packages and miserable handling of dependencies. I remember I was trying to compile a package from source, and I searched for about 30 minutes for all the individual dependencies. Now, that's understandable, I guess. Problem is, I couldn't find half of them. For example, it said I needed a Python library, so I installed the "full Python development" package and all libraries. Still, no dice.

Ubuntu is much more bare-bones, with an emphasis on simplicity and customization. I prefer things that way, because I know that if it gets bloated and slow there's no one to blame but myself.

APT is a great package service, and Synaptic/Adept is a thousand times better than YaST. It handles dependencies very well. Plus, the Ubuntu repositories are the best I have ever seen.

It all depends on what you're going for, but if you want a professional distro and you have a fast computer, I'd go with OpenSuSE. For a mid-grade computer, or just a distro for everyday use, go Ubuntu.

I agree. Searching for packages via Yast is very poor and apt/synaptic much better in that department.

[Raffo]

Yast is too slow... package management should be an easy thing to do. Try installing an app on a mac and then try it on openSUSE :lolflag:

[Castar]

openSUSE's package management has been very much improved for 10.3. It is very fast compared to previous versions. The slow feeling is given by the fact that zypper automatically refreshes all repositories before searching/installing/removing a package. If they change that, I wouldn't think it's slower that Ubuntu's apt.

Also, concerning dependencies. It's all in the repositories! If the repositories are good, then there should be no dependencies issues! Ubuntu, in true Debian spirit, stays with the same repositories for every release and Ubuntu users rarely need to install any third-party repos. This also means that users stay with the same versions of programs for the lifetime of the release. The same is true with openSUSE, if one stays with the official repositories! I have yet to find a dependency issue with openSUSE! Now, if one starts adding up repositories with newer software etc. then it's natural that eventually breakage will happen as I have experienced even with Ubuntu!

What I like in openSUSE is that I always have the latest version of the most popular software when I want to. The packaging system might be slower that Ubuntu's due to the refreshing issue but I cannot think of something that Synaptic can do that YaST cannot.

[sandysandy]

as a new convert to LINUX, i find Open Suse 10.3 easier to configure than Ubuntu 7.10 or 7.04 for dual booting. in fact open suse is a delight as far as dual booting is concerned.

regards

[Incense]

YaST does an amazing job as a control panel, and I really have no problem with the package managment. I do have SMART installed though, which is much faster then YaST if you just want a quick install from the CLI. I would even say it's just as fast as APT.

[RedDwarf]

If you just use the basic repositories probably YaST is good enough. But say you want to install Stellarium that is available in the Education:desktop OBS repository. You add the repository and install it, everything ok. But then you want to make an update an it says it wants to update half the kde4 packages, gsl, dosbox, inkscape and xfig. That can happen without the user noticing since the 1-click system adds repositories automatically to add new software. With smart this isn't a problem since you can assign different "priorities" to repositories (and packages).

Any anyway. Why "zypper lu" is saying me I need to apply two patches, for libiniparser-32bit and openmotif22-libs, when I don't have any of these programs installed?
~> zypper lu
...
Repository: | Name | Version | Category | Status
-----------------------+--------------------+---------+----------+-------
Main Update Repository | libiniparser-32bit | 4488-0 | optional | Needed
Main Update Repository | openmotif22-libs | 4540-0 | optional | Needed
~> rpm -qa | grep libiniparser
libiniparser-2.17-25
~> rpm -qa | grep openmotif
openmotif-libs-2.3.0-23

I would not recommend the libzypp based/official software management stack from openSUSE to nobody. Pre-10.3 versiones were really bad, and 10.3 version isn't much better. But since you can use apt-get, yum, or smart with openSUSE this isn't a problem...


I'm an active openSUSE bug reporter. I receive a free openSUSE box with every realease because of this. But libzypp software management stack is sooooo broken I never report bugs about it... any developer using it for a week should be able to see enough bugs for himself to have work for months.

[jmedina]

I like both. But, If I had to choose, my choice would be Ubuntu. I just find it a lot more clean. Like, When you install it for the first time there are no icons on your desktop. Which I like. If you are new to Linux I recommend Suse. Because, It comes with everything you need. In my opinion I think Suse feels a little bloated. Yast is improving. Yast is nice because you can manage and deploy everything in one place. I think the Ubuntu installation is a lot smoother as well.

[Showpan]

I am trying SuSE 10.3 now,
it is downloading
I have heart that SuSE has the most beautiful "face".

[Incense]

In my opinion I think Suse feels a little bloated.

I hear comments like this all the time, and I'm still not sure what it means for an OS to be bloated. Is it because it comes with more software (or too much software?), has a DVD installer? I'm not trying to be a jerk or anything, I just really want to know.

[RebounD11]

That's how I interpret bloated.. too much useless sofware or more programs doing the same thing and wasitng disk space and RAM...

Although I am curious what everyone thinks about this word...

[Antman]

I hear comments like this all the time, and I'm still not sure what it means for an OS to be bloated.

I guess it normally means that there are a lot of services and other processor/system things that are loaded that slow down the performance of the system.

Whenever I boot into Sidux, I see how sweet it is to run a streamlined distro.
Boots fast, shuts down fast, and runs applications fast.

But really, I have been running Opensuse 10.3 for a while now and I like it. It's not the fastest distro out there, but it works well on my hardware.

[jmedina]

I agree. Once somebody told me that they like opensuse better than Ubuntu, Because it comes with everything they need. Some people like that. But, Some people think it is too bloated.

[RebounD11]

You can choose the programs you want during the installation, which I can't say about Ubuntu...

[viking777]

There is only one good thing about Suse Linux and that is Yast (other distros please copy) everything else is rubbish. I have tried every version from 10.0 to 10.3 and you would have thought that over 4 distros something would have improved, but oh no!

I tried 10.3 last week and as with every other version after install I was left with an 800x600 vesa graphics desktop with no sound, no network and no internet connection. I must say I was pleasantly surprised to find that my mouse worked this time - usually that is broken too. What a contrast to install Ubuntu or Mint and find that nearly all these things work straight away (well not networking in Ubuntu but that is another story).

How Novell can manage to sell this system is a mystery to me.

[RebounD11]

The exact opposite happened to me.

OpenSuSE 10.3 just works... and to be honest I never heard of SuSE running that bad on any system so far, and that includes SuSE 10.1 which was a wreck of an OS.

[Sef]

Once somebody told me that they like opensuse better than Ubuntu, Because it comes with everything they need. Some people like that. But, Some people think it is too bloated.

GNU/Linux: Have it your way.....Have it your way. (Sounds like a commercial. hahahaha)

[Incense]

The exact opposite happened to me.

OpenSuSE 10.3 just works... and to be honest I never heard of SuSE running that bad on any system so far, and that includes SuSE 10.1 which was a wreck of an OS.

+1

been using SuSE since the 8 days, and it has ALWAYS detected my hardware like a champ.

BTW, I thought the Linux community as a whole agreed never to mention 10.1 again! How can we forget that dark time if you keep reminding us! ](*,)

[RedDwarf]

How Novell can manage to sell this system is a mystery to me.
Obvioulsy is because your situation is very rare. And because is very rare is unprobable that another user had the same problem and reported it... so *you* must report the problems if you want any better support in openSUSE 11.0.

http://bugzilla.novell.com/

[g4ry.l33]

I used SuSE 10.0 and it was just SLOW ! All the apps were slow to load as well.
Yast took a very long time to load. I just love using apt-get/cache. I've tried a lot of
distros and Ubuntu fits the bill for me. They all have their strong points but I like Ubuntu.

[Antman]

Yast took a very long time to load. I just love using apt-get/cache.
If you want a command line package manager in Opensuse, try Zypper. It's not apt-get/cache but it's quicker then using Yast for package management.

[Incense]

I used SuSE 10.0 and it was just SLOW ! All the apps were slow to load as well.
Yast took a very long time to load. I just love using apt-get/cache. I've tried a lot of
distros and Ubuntu fits the bill for me. They all have their strong points but I like Ubuntu.

On top of using Zypper on the CLI, you can also install and run SMART which is just as fast as apt. If you really want, you can even install apt4rpm on SuSE! Anyway, YaST on 10.3 is A LOT faster then it was in 10.0. Worth looking at again if you want to try something new.

[mimo74]

Hello,

I used suse for 3 years now. Suse 9 , Suse 10 , Suse 10.1 , Suse 10.2 , Suse 10,3. In parallel, I was interested with ubuntu. I ordered a free CD of ubuntu 6.10 to try it and I was disappointed! a lot of drivers not found a lot of things not working well, too slow on my laptop, battery saving is a shame ....

On the other hand, Suse was working very well during 5 to 6 months after installation.. then the problems appear and when you are updating the system, you are just killing it slowly...

So I decided to go back to windows :) things are not going so good but it's just working!

Lately I discovered the latest ubuntu 7.10. I ordered a CD, tried the live CD and BINGO! stable and fast booting so I installed it and guess what? it recognize my PCMCIA TV tuner (out of box) and my intel wifi and my LCD laptop monitor and VGA even the modem! so I installed it on the server PC and the kids pc too :)

Till now everything is OK and better than OK! I am satisfied!

I think the fact that suse is under too version is making the opensuse like a test OS when Ubuntu is a true stable OS...

Beside, Ubuntu support is very effective resolving problems and learning how to use the OS.

[aaronfulton]

I started with SLAX back in the day on a 286 and went over to Debian when I got my 486. Then, like most people, I moved to Red Hat and stayed with it until SUSE 10.0. I loved SUSE but experienced a critical error with the Update Manager that was pretty wide spread and the response from Novell was that it would be fixed in 10.1. Not the response I wanted so I jumped on the Ubuntu ban wagon. At first I was pretty disappointed that Ubuntu was missing allot of the bells and whistles SUSE had and Ubuntu was not as well suited for developers as, I felt, SUSE was. Then I tried Kubuntu; before it was an official derivative, and was more impressed with it than I was with Ubuntu but then I switched to Linux Mint and am very happy with it. The only problem I am having is that there is no official Linux Mint KDE edition anymore and with KDE 4 coming out I am looking to find a distro with an official KDE edition. Leaving me with two heavy weight contenders, SUSE and Kubuntu. I know there are allot of other distros with KDE flavors and less notable distros that use KDE but SUSE and Kubuntu are the distros I have whittled my choices down to. I loved Adept but I also loved YaST. I love ENVY but can use YaST without too much difficulty to install my proprietary graphics driver. Both have AppArmour and neither have Pax or Exec Shield (for this reason alone I was considering forgoing KDE 4 and running Fedora 8 with Gnome). Does anyone have any special info or experience with either distro that could help me make this decision? Please and thank you! :)

[dhruvb14]

Ok. When i jumped ship to linux i chose OpenSuSe for one reason. Automation. If you are new to linux like i was and had never used a command line then SuSE is for you. After a few bad experiences in SuSE (since i just jumped ship from XP one day and stayed linux exclusive) i decided i'd give Ubuntu a shot. Why, cause whenever i googled how to solve a problem in suse i always found an answer for ubuntu first. So i installed Kubuntu (I installed SuSE with kde) and got a feel of the debian system. Now i am running ubuntu with kbunutu apps installed from "apt-get install kubuntu". I could not be happier and wish i would have started with K/ubuntu

[Antman]

Why, cause whenever i googled how to solve a problem in suse i always found an answer for ubuntu first.

Yes, the Ubuntu forums are pretty awesome. :guitar:

[GSF1200S]

Having tried a few different distros, I never have tried Suse. I think im going to just to see what the fuss is about..

Well, my second lappie's getting formatted again... My primary computer is still betting on Buntu, though ;)

[RedDwarf]

Why, cause whenever i googled how to solve a problem in suse i always found an answer for ubuntu first.
So every single problem in openSUSE is also found in Ubuntu? So "# problems in Ubuntu" >= "# problems in openSUSE"... conclusion: openSUSE is better. :lolflag:

[SomeGuyDude]

So every single problem in openSUSE is also found in Ubuntu? So "# problems in Ubuntu" >= "# problems in openSUSE"... conclusion: openSUSE is better. :lolflag:

Ah-hah! Nice try. Every single SOLUTION for openSUSE is also found in Ubuntu. Therefore "ratio of solutions to problems in Ubuntu" >= "ratio of solutions to problems in openSUSE"... conclusion: Ubuntu is better. :lolflag:

That said, I really want to get OS running on my machine. It "feels" better than anything I've used so far for some reason. I just can't get it to work.

[Incense]

Ah-hah! Nice try. Every single SOLUTION for openSUSE is also found in Ubuntu. Therefore "ratio of solutions to problems in Ubuntu" >= "ratio of solutions to problems in openSUSE"... conclusion: Ubuntu is better. :lolflag:

That said, I really want to get OS running on my machine. It "feels" better than anything I've used so far for some reason. I just can't get it to work.

We could probably say that every most distos have similar issues, and the ubuntu forums are a great place to find solutions to those problems because they have the biggest and best community (right now).

I really don't know that I would say SuSE is better then Ubuntu, or vice versa. It's really just what works best on your hardware, and (as you said) what "feels" best.

[SomeGuyDude]

We could probably say that every most distos have similar issues, and the ubuntu forums are a great place to find solutions to those problems because they have the biggest and best community (right now).

I really don't know that I would say SuSE is better then Ubuntu, or vice versa. It's really just what works best on your hardware, and (as you said) what "feels" best.

Hey, I was just responding in kind! :guitar:

I think SuSe has, strange as it sounds, a greater "presence" than Ubuntu. It looks and feels like a real professional distro while most others feel like a project made by individuals. YaST, for all its flaws, is a great concept and I love the menu. If I could get compiz running and the boot time was faster, I'd have it on this machiine.

[Incense]

Hey, I was just responding in kind! :guitar:

I think SuSe has, strange as it sounds, a greater "presence" than Ubuntu. It looks and feels like a real professional distro while most others feel like a project made by individuals. YaST, for all its flaws, is a great concept and I love the menu. If I could get compiz running and the boot time was faster, I'd have it on this machiine.

You know, it's kind of funny. For all the work that Novell has done in the past for XGL and all that, I find it near impossible to get compiz working on my SuSE install. I have no worries on that front in Ubuntu, but it's always a no go in SuSE.

I would also agree fully with the professional feel of SuSE, and that extra level of polish is what keeps SuSE on my main machine, and Ubuntu off. Even though Ubuntu is easier to setup, and apt is a thousand times faster then YaST (not faster then SMART though) I still keep openSUSE running. Good times.

[Antman]

You know, it's kind of funny. For all the work that Novell has done in the past for XGL and all that, I find it near impossible to get compiz working on my SuSE install. I have no worries on that front in Ubuntu, but it's always a no go in SuSE.

I loved how the desktop effects were implemented in SLED 10. It worked like a champ on my desktop. I haven't even played with effects in Opensuse. Maybe that will be my project for the weekend. :popcorn:

[RedDwarf]

Ah-hah! Nice try. Every single SOLUTION for openSUSE is also found in Ubuntu. Therefore "ratio of solutions to problems in Ubuntu" >= "ratio of solutions to problems in openSUSE"... conclusion: Ubuntu is better. :lolflag:
But if there exists a solution is because there was a problem. "# solutions" >= "# problems", so:
- "# solutions for Ubuntu" >= "# problems in Ubuntu" >= "# solutions for openSUSE" >= "# problems in openSUSE"

There exists the possibility that Ubuntu forums are so good that they provide solutions for problems that still don't exist, in which case Ubuntu is better.

:lolflag: :lolflag: :lolflag:

[GSF1200S]

After installing OpenSUSE, I can say that I was pleasantly surprised! It definitely is polished and seems to be well put together. Whoever said yast is slow: wow, youre defintely right! I prefer apt to yast any day..

Another thing I prefer with Ubuntu is the alternate CD and the option for command line installs. I like being able to build my gui with apt from the command line.

OpenSUSE, though, is a very nice distro- so far its the only distro that has allowed ndiswrapper to work with knetwork manager on my 2nd lappie (broadcom).

[SomeGuyDude]

You know, it's kind of funny. For all the work that Novell has done in the past for XGL and all that, I find it near impossible to get compiz working on my SuSE install. I have no worries on that front in Ubuntu, but it's always a no go in SuSE.

I would also agree fully with the professional feel of SuSE, and that extra level of polish is what keeps SuSE on my main machine, and Ubuntu off. Even though Ubuntu is easier to setup, and apt is a thousand times faster then YaST (not faster then SMART though) I still keep openSUSE running. Good times.

Compiz was ten kinds of a pain. The worst part was when all my window borders vanished and I had to work to get emerald running. Yikes. Currently I'm struggling to work with themes.

I'm getting a better feel for CLI just after a few hours of SuSE thanks to the complete lack of, well, anything pre-installed. I had to put in just about every dependency just to run a simple ./configure, then install MAKE of all things.

It's like OpenSuSE is a mountain. Difficult as hell to climb, but once I'm there it'll feel great. I have it on a little 11GB partition currently just to see how long it'll take before it's full on. Then I'll see about erasing Ubuntu if it ever comes to that.

Only problem? I can have Ubuntu just like I want it in about an hour and a half. Throw the CD in, install, and 45 minutes of installing and tweaking this and that and I've got my machine just like I left it. Getting SuSE up to full speed could take HOURS even if I know exactly what I want to happen.

[dawg]

Compiz was ten kinds of a pain. The worst part was when all my window borders vanished and I had to work to get emerald running. Yikes. Currently I'm struggling to work with themes.

I'm getting a better feel for CLI just after a few hours of SuSE thanks to the complete lack of, well, anything pre-installed. I had to put in just about every dependency just to run a simple ./configure, then install MAKE of all things.

It's like OpenSuSE is a mountain. Difficult as hell to climb, but once I'm there it'll feel great. I have it on a little 11GB partition currently just to see how long it'll take before it's full on. Then I'll see about erasing Ubuntu if it ever comes to that.

Only problem? I can have Ubuntu just like I want it in about an hour and a half. Throw the CD in, install, and 45 minutes of installing and tweaking this and that and I've got my machine just like I left it. Getting SuSE up to full speed could take HOURS even if I know exactly what I want to happen.

I can't believe it would take you that long. I mean, I've never set up COMPIZ or any of the "fancy" eye candy. But when I last used 10.2 it ran like a dream. I've been really wanting to install 10.3 or the gutsy but just haven't had the time to download either CD.

One more thing, have you tried using SUSES oneclick install? If so, how is it?

[GSF1200S]

I can't believe it would take you that long. I mean, I've never set up COMPIZ or any of the "fancy" eye candy. But when I last used 10.2 it ran like a dream. I've been really wanting to install 10.3 or the gutsy but just haven't had the time to download either CD.

One more thing, have you tried using SUSES oneclick install? If so, how is it?

OpenSUSE can be a PITA. Its nice, polished and works well, but I hit dependency issues within 20 minutes of the install. No big deal and it only took a few minutes to fix, but still. I dont care for the way the repos are setup...

Its prolly just my lack of familiarity, and things will go smooth later on.

Still have a Buntu variant on my main though..

[Incense]

Compiz was ten kinds of a pain. The worst part was when all my window borders vanished and I had to work to get emerald running. Yikes. Currently I'm struggling to work with themes.

I'm getting a better feel for CLI just after a few hours of SuSE thanks to the complete lack of, well, anything pre-installed. I had to put in just about every dependency just to run a simple ./configure, then install MAKE of all things.

It's like OpenSuSE is a mountain. Difficult as hell to climb, but once I'm there it'll feel great. I have it on a little 11GB partition currently just to see how long it'll take before it's full on. Then I'll see about erasing Ubuntu if it ever comes to that.

Only problem? I can have Ubuntu just like I want it in about an hour and a half. Throw the CD in, install, and 45 minutes of installing and tweaking this and that and I've got my machine just like I left it. Getting SuSE up to full speed could take HOURS even if I know exactly what I want to happen.

I really don't have to touch the CLI very often in openSUSE. I just setup Ubuntu on my wifes computer this past weekend, and I was suprised by how often I was pulling up the CLI. There are GUI tools of course, but it is just so much eaiser to install packages, and edit the sources.list from the CLI. I love how YaST will take care of all this for me in openSUSE. The only time I really pull up the CLI in SUSE is to quickly install a package from SMART.

I do see how Ubuntu can be faster to set up, but I think the overall experience of using openSUSE makes it worth the extra time.

[RedDwarf]

I'm getting a better feel for CLI just after a few hours of SuSE thanks to the complete lack of, well, anything pre-installed. I had to put in just about every dependency just to run a simple ./configure, then install MAKE of all things.
Tha classic complain about openSUSE was: "It is too bloated, it installs too much stuff. Why they need a full DVD???". Now there is nothing pre-installed?

Everytime I need something it is available in the repositories. The only time when I need to run ./configure && make is for some games like Super Mario War (no so common game, and that probably uses Nintendo copyright). openSUSE wants to be a distribution where you don't need to use the CLI, so the GNU toolchain isn't installed by default. But you can select the "Base Development" pattern during the installation or after, through YaST, and you will have all the basic packages (configure, make, gcc, etc.).
If you want to compile against other libraries YaST has an option to install the "-devel" packages for each installed library.

[SomeGuyDude]

Tha classic complain about openSUSE was: "It is too bloated, it installs too much stuff. Why they need a full DVD???". Now there is nothing pre-installed?

Everytime I need something it is available in the repositories. The only time when I need to run ./configure && make is for some games like Super Mario War (no so common game, and that probably uses Nintendo copyright). openSUSE wants to be a distribution where you don't need to use the CLI, so the GNU toolchain isn't installed by default. But you can select the "Base Development" pattern during the installation or after, through YaST, and you will have all the basic packages (configure, make, gcc, etc.).
If you want to compile against other libraries YaST has an option to install the "-devel" packages for each installed library.

I never said SuSE was too bloated. Heck, I installed from the LiveCD, so I didn't have the big ol' DVD.

I had to run the configure/make combo to install the Domino theme dealie, but that didn't really get me anywhere. Still couldn't get themes to show up. Ah well.

[Incense]

Tha classic complain about openSUSE was: "It is too bloated, it installs too much stuff. Why they need a full DVD???". Now there is nothing pre-installed?

Everytime I need something it is available in the repositories. The only time when I need to run ./configure && make is for some games like Super Mario War (no so common game, and that probably uses Nintendo copyright). openSUSE wants to be a distribution where you don't need to use the CLI, so the GNU toolchain isn't installed by default. But you can select the "Base Development" pattern during the installation or after, through YaST, and you will have all the basic packages (configure, make, gcc, etc.).
If you want to compile against other libraries YaST has an option to install the "-devel" packages for each installed library.

I don't even go that far. Since you can find DEB for most files thanks to Ubuntu, I just grab the DEB, alien -r it in to an RPM, then install with SMART. Have not had it fail yet.

[Antman]

I don't even go that far. Since you can find DEB for most files thanks to Ubuntu, I just grab the DEB, alien -r it in to an RPM, then install with SMART. Have not had it fail yet.

Yeah, I used Alien for the first time when I installed WICD on my Opensuse laptop. It worked perfectly. :)

[some-guy]

I just use 1-click from the BS's search :D
BTW for Multimedia there is a 1-click page http://opensuse-community.org/Restricted_Formats/10.3

[SomeGuyDude]

Sir, I insist that you select a new moniker. This will not do at all!

[kamaboko]

I just got done installing the latest version of OpenSuse on Virtualbox. Holy Christ it took forever. I could have installed Vista twice for the time it took. In any case, all said and done, I wasn't too hot on it. The GUI just doesn't do it for me.

I also noticed the EULA provisions and was wondering if that puts Suse on the outskirts of many Linux fans. I mean, that is one of the top five complaints about MS, so I figure the same must follow with Suse.

[SomeGuyDude]

What did you use to install? I put a thread down below on the fact that the LiveCD is just balls for installation but the DVD is much nicer. Granted I have no idea how it'd work on VirtualBox since I've never used the thing, just something I figured I'd ask.

Yeah there's an EULA but frankly that doesn't bother me too much.

[kamaboko]

I used the LiveCD. I guess I'm just used to the other LiveCD's I've used in the past such as Ubuntu, Mint, Mepis, etc. They were all pretty quick.

[RedDwarf]

I also noticed the EULA provisions and was wondering if that puts Suse on the outskirts of many Linux fans. I mean, that is one of the top five complaints about MS, so I figure the same must follow with Suse.
You can complain because you think a *condition* from an EULA is abusive. But complain because a product comes with an EULA is plain stupid. The EULA specifies your rights.
The GPL is an EULA!!!

The "Novell Software License Agreement" just says that the license that applies to each independent piece of software from openSUSE is the one that this software specifies (90% GPL). And the only limitations that Novell puts over the user is that he can't redistribute modified or splitted versions of openSUSE without removing the Novell trademarks.

[Incense]

I used the LiveCD. I guess I'm just used to the other LiveCD's I've used in the past such as Ubuntu, Mint, Mepis, etc. They were all pretty quick.

I can do an OpenSUSE live CD install in a little over 20 mins. Maybe it was just a virt box thing, but the live install is pretty fast. What didn't you like about the GUI? Also Gnome or KDE?

[Eriksmits596]

The difference between ubuntu and SuSE is that SuSE don't work, but ubuntu does :D

[Incense]

The difference between ubuntu and SuSE is that SuSE don't work, but ubuntu does :D

Ok.

[Antman]

The difference between ubuntu and SuSE is that SuSE don't work, but ubuntu does :D

More correctly: Suse doesn't work for YOU!

[AaronMiller]

I always appreciated openSUSE's visually appealing desktop out of the box. I'm really torn between using it for KDE4.0 or using Fedora 8 KDE4.0 LiveCD (I haven't been a fan of Kubuntu, sorry, nothing personal, just didn't care for it as much). YaST is a really neat config tool for people who haven't had too much experience with Linux and the command line yet, really easy to get stuff configured with any issues for those of us that are lazy or frustrated to the point where they don't care anymore! :) I also liked their 1-click installs, very neat for those that are new to Linux or looking for an easy solution.

I didn't like that it took forever to boot up though, I believe the developers are working on that though so it could very well be a distro to watch!

[njparton]

More correctly: Suse doesn't work for YOU!

Quite right. Suse works fine!

Personally, I just prefer the look and feel of ubuntu.

[Erunno]

YaST is a really neat config tool for people who haven't had too much experience with Linux and the command line yet, really easy to get stuff configured with any issues for those of us that are lazy or frustrated to the point where they don't care anymore! :)

Please don't regard this as a personal attack but I've never understood why it is expected from knowledgeable Linux users to have masochistic tendencies. The assumption that doing the configuration via a GUI is only for the newbs while the truly leet use the CLI is wrong on so many levels. Comfort is something that most full-time Linux users come to appreciate after the first wave of CLI-mania (at least the people I know). Plus, there are cases where a text editor is simply inferior to a GUI configuration tool. For instance, when the config file is very large (like Samba's smb.conf tends to) or uses a complex syntax it's more likely that you'll introduce errors. Plus, rather than reading several hundreds lines of text which can be tedious a GUI can parse the information and present it in a visually more appealing and comprehensible manner. It can even check input before it's committed to boot.

[Incense]

Please don't regard this as a personal attack but I've never understood why it is expected from knowledgeable Linux users to have masochistic tendencies. The assumption that doing the configuration via a GUI is only for the newbs while the truly leet use the CLI is wrong on so many levels. Comfort is something that most full-time Linux users come to appreciate after the first wave of CLI-mania (at least the people I know). Plus, there are cases where a text editor is simply inferior to a GUI configuration tool. For instance, when the config file is very large (like Samba's smb.conf tends to) or uses a complex syntax it's more likely that you'll introduce errors. Plus, rather than reading several hundreds lines of text which can be tedious a GUI can parse the information and present it in a visually more appealing and comprehensible manner. It can even check input before it's committed to boot.

+1

When you talk to Mandriva or PCLOS users, they will tell you how great the control center is. OpenSUSE/SLED users will tell you tell how great YaST is. These are just great GUI's for configuring your machine. I have a hard time in Ubuntu figuring out how to enable 3d accel, whereas in OpenSUSE I simply check a box and it's done. I just don't see a GUI as a "noob" tool.

[mobileking]

UBUNTU Rocz ! :guitar:

[mobileking]

BUT ! since being a new user it makes me panic while using each commands ! "some words in UBUNTU make me stand still "

[Incense]

BUT ! since being a new user it makes me panic while using each commands ! "some words in UBUNTU make me stand still "

As they should! Remember kids, Never run a command unless you know exactly what it is going to do. ;)

[EvilDarkElf]

Cut my teeth on openSUSE 10.1 at work (yes, our non-IT office uses Linux :-) and managed to break it in 3 months - KDE wouldn't even load on startup. A friend told me to try Ubuntu since the forums are friendly :-) and I love it as much as my puppy at home, but only because of all the stuff I learned in the process of breaking SUSE; an even mixture of what I want/need from my OS and how Linux works. It is easy to love something once you understand it.

[Incense]

Cut my teeth on openSUSE 10.1 at work (yes, our non-IT office uses Linux :-) and managed to break it in 3 months - KDE wouldn't even load on startup. A friend told me to try Ubuntu since the forums are friendly :-) and I love it as much as my puppy at home, but only because of all the stuff I learned in the process of breaking SUSE; an even mixture of what I want/need from my OS and how Linux works. It is easy to love something once you understand it.

Hi EvilDarkElf! For what it's worth, openSUSE 10.1 was HORRIBLE! It was the release that drove me to start using Ubuntu. Package management was broken, X wouldn't load half the time... <shudder>. Anyway, it was all fixed in 10.2, and 10.3 is better still. Very much worth trying out.

[RebounD11]

Hi EvilDarkElf! For what it's worth, openSUSE 10.1 was HORRIBLE! It was the release that drove me to start using Ubuntu. Package management was broken, X wouldn't load half the time... <shudder>. Anyway, it was all fixed in 10.2, and 10.3 is better still. Very much worth trying out.

OpenSuSE 10.2 drove me from KDE to Gnome... I had to attempt 4-5 times to launch an app in KDE on 10.2 while in Gnome it worked fin the first time.

[Modified.Reality]

I started on SuSe but had way to many problems I finally ended up on Ubuntu and I love it! Ubuntu gets my vote.

[SomeGuyDude]

I haven't used my SuSE install in weeks because it doesn't work on the University network (it's a KNetworkManager issue). I still maintain that it's got a level of polish Ubuntu doesn't, but it seems like it's a lot more fickle with functionality. Shame, too.

[Incense]

I haven't used my SuSE install in weeks because it doesn't work on the University network (it's a KNetworkManager issue). I still maintain that it's got a level of polish Ubuntu doesn't, but it seems like it's a lot more fickle with functionality. Shame, too.

Knetwork manager does like to lose my home network a lot so I feel your pain there. Fiesty did the same thing, only it wouldn't reconnect, SuSE will at least do that for me. Win some lose some eh?

[dca]

Knetwork manager does like to lose my home network a lot so I feel your pain there. Fiesty did the same thing, only it wouldn't reconnect, SuSE will at least do that for me. Win some lose some eh?

Are you using ndiswrapper?

[Incense]

Are you using ndiswrapper?

My wireless was detected out of the box, so I'm just using that. Do you think I would see better performance if I was using the windows driver?

[Changturkey]

Since YAST is too slow for me, anyways, I'll wait till 11.0 to see what has changed.

[sp00ki]

sorry to wake a sleeping thread, but i found this in a google search and figured i'd chime in.

long story short: suse has its place-- so does ubuntu.

in the enterprise world, suse (and redhat) are the only linux games in town. big vendors like polyserve/hp and quantum typically limit support to either rhel or suse, so if you're in IT you're going to be most familiar with these distros. subsequently, there's a big chance you're going to end up going with them on your lap/desktops.
granted, this isn't always the case (i'm an example here-- we have 100+ rhel systems at work, but i run ubuntu on my own systems), but it is the case in many instances.

on the other hand, ubuntu > rhel/suse outside of corporate environments.
there is a maaaasive home user base, and subsequently tons of user/newbie friendly walkthroughs, installers, big fat repositories, etc. out there for things that aren't enterprise related. using ubuntu at home is cake; aside from a robust out of the box hardware support and an easy to use, dependency solving package manager, i oftentimes find myself googling instead of thinking when i run into a speedbump on my ubuntu systems, as ubuntu related forums are so heavily used that almost every conceivable issue has a few discussions out there-- a luxury i rarely have when solving obscure issues at work.

i definitely vote for ubuntu in the "home place", and would love to see a step-up in enterprise vendor support for the server distro as well.

[XAkioX]

Quite honestly, I find that SuSE tops on simplicity with YASt, as well as relitively detailed instructions. The down side of SuSE linux is that it's software tends to be rather bloated and it feels very Mac-like (a major downside for myself).

Ubuntu seems to be more compact, organised, and wonderful for anyone with computer experience. The main problem I see with Ubuntu is it has very little information on how to acctually do things. Somethings aren't well explained, and that is never good for any OS.

Put simply, I like both of them, it's all about what you're really looking for.

[Dojan5]

I like SuSE, but I can't use it.
It has some startx error at bootup of the LiveCD. Plus, now it is too late since I have Velo to work with :D

[Kooothor]

I tried openSUSE 11 on my iMac Alu and I'll stick with it !
This thread is about comparing so let's compare SUSE to Buntu :

SUSE 11 > Ubuntu 8.04 on Imac Aluminium. No doubt about this.

I tried openSUSE with Gnome desktop and I must say it detected all nicely, backlight dimming was working out of the box, like a LOT of other things. (like the keyboard).
No need to applesmc, pommed, etc.

Seriously one would want to give it a try, on my machine it works perfectly (except some grub problems I went into but nothing unresolvable).

[pxhai]

I tried OpenSUSE 11.0 KDE 4.0, and very impressed. It looks more professional, delicate than ubuntu. But some drivers for printer and webcam not work right for me, so will wait for next releases. One big drawback of SUSE is the install system. It doesnt have big repositories like ubuntu, and does not automatically install all dependencies. I think the SUSE developers will have to improve this feature in future. For now, im sticked with ubuntu.

[RedDwarf]

One big drawback of SUSE is the install system. It doesnt have big repositories like ubuntu, and does not automatically install all dependencies. I think the SUSE developers will have to improve this feature in future. For now, im sticked with ubuntu.
openSUSE has big repositories, not so big like Debian/Ubuntu... but there are also packages available in openSUSE that aren't available in Debian/Ubuntu (1).
And it does automatically install all dependencies... has been mathematically demonstrated (2) that if there exist a solution ZYpp will find it, APT can't say the same (it is know that there are cases where it fails to find an existing solution).

(1) http://software.opensuse.org/search?baseproject=openSUSE%3A11.0&p=1&q=bsnes vs http://packages.ubuntu.com/search?keywords=bsnes&searchon=names&suite=all&section=all
(2) http://pho.ucsd.edu/rjhala/papers/opium.pdf

[Thricemin]

I think opensuse takes up to much resources and has way to much configuration needed.

Ubuntu for life.:guitar:

[silvestros]

I switched to openSUSE 2 days ago. I prefer Ubuntu, but I had a problem with the temperature on my laptop when running Ubuntu.

[Armandoban]

A lot of people reference switching from KDE to Gnome as the big difference going between SuSE and Ubuntu, but what about Kubuntu? Where does that fit here?

[gjoellee]

Yast is a bad package management tool. It is bloated in bugs! And that's what openSUSE is famous for!!!?

[Vince4Amy]

Yast is a bad package management tool. It is bloated in bugs! And that's what openSUSE is famous for!!!?

YAST is more than a package manager and doesn't seem to have bugs on this machine.

[RedDwarf]

Yast is a bad package management tool. It is bloated in bugs!
Now post a link to one of these bugs... or *at very least* give a detailed description of it, and your argument will be 100 times more credible.

...or we can have a discussion where your single argument will be "yes, it's buggy" and my single argument will be "no, it isn't". Then the one that first gets tired of repeating the same phrase losses. I'm really good at it...


Seriously, in general. You can argue about which one has the most pretty desktop wallpaper using only "my opinion is...", but when you talk about bugs or resources usage "my opinion" is meaningless... we need *facts* and *numbers*.

[EarthMind]

I tried Ubuntu, Kubuntu, OpenSUSE GNOME & OpenSUSE KDE and I've chosen for OpenSUSE GNOME, I prefer OpenSUSE KDE but the current KDE 4.1 is in my opinion way too unstable for daily use.

Kubuntu is way too much neglected by Canonical and therefor stands no chance against the other three. It's way more unstable than OpenSUSE KDE, has less features and almost nothing seems to work in it... Especially Wireless internet.. I'm not even bothering checking out the newer releases of Kubuntu.

Ubuntu is a nice and simple OS and that's the main reason why it's so popular but in my opinion it's way too simple and there it has too few configuration options.. Most configurations still need to be done via the terminal if you want it to work correctly. And applications in Ubuntu work when they want to, sometimes they work and sometimes they don't. God knows for what reason.. That's typical Linux behavior but Ubuntu has way too much of it. What I do like about Ubuntu was the GUI for proprietary driver, I have no idea how this works in OpenSUSE because I hadn't had to install any yet.

OpenSUSE KDE is a very nice OS but unfortunately KDE 4.1 is still too unstable for me to use it for daily use. I'm still waiting for the day I'll be able to use it. It looks nice, has great features and it's fun to work in. KDE has always been my first choice but the common crashes are way too annoying.

OpenSUSE GNOME is my favorite for now, more and more worked out-of-the-box compared to Ubuntu (see below for more info). Like Ubuntu it has a very nice look and is fun to work in. There are a lot of software packages available for OpenSUSE, perhaps not as many as for Ubuntu but still plenty. Dependencies are automatically installed every time, the 1-click install is a very nice feature.

Ubuntu problems I had right after a fresh installation:

- Wireless didn't work out-of-the-box and the usual ndiswrapper had to be used to get it partially working, yes partially because sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.. It worked out-of-the-box for a PHILIPS USB adapter for one of my sisters but recently it stopped working completely with our own PHILIPS router, though I think this may be caused by the router

- Screen resolution: man this was a pain to get it working as it should, after searching the web and Ubuntu forums I found a way to configure it (the terminal way) but it still didn't work 100%

- Keyboard numlock: this never worked for me in Ubuntu (last one I tried was 8.04), the numlock light was always on but the numeric keys weren't working so I had to press the numlock button twice every time I started the computer and logged in Ubuntu

- The UI oftenly stopped working for newly started applications so a system reboot was necessary every time it happened

- My two sisters seemed to have a lot of problems with DVD playback while it worked nicely for me in the past if I remember correctly

- Network manager was one hell of a buggy application on one of my sisters computer so I had to install Wicd instead


OpenSUSE problems I had right after a fresh installation:

- Wireless seemed to work much better than in Ubuntu, mostly it worked out-of-the-box but I still have the issue where the Wireless connection just won't work periodically after starting the computer but as mentioned in the Ubuntu part this may be caused by my router

- Sound playback & configuration wasn't working very well at the beginning using PulseAudio. It was still buggy as hell when it was included in the 11.0 beta release

- Music playback doesn't always work with OpenSUSE GNOME 11.0, I guess this is still because of the buggy Pulse Audio, media players used were Banshee & Songbird. And Banshee sometimes doesn't quit completely and prevents me from being able to start it again.

Summary of Ubuntu & OpenSUSE GNOME:

- Sound: Ubuntu: 100%, OpenSUSE: 75%
- Wireless: Ubuntu: 55%, OpenSUSE: 75%
- Screen resolution: Ubuntu: 85%, OpenSUSE: 95%
- Numlock on PC start: Ubuntu: 0%, OpenSUSE: 100%
- Video playback: Ubuntu: 65%, OpenSUSE: 90%
- Performance: Ubuntu: 95%, OpenSUSE: 90%
- Software installation/removal: Ubuntu: 99%, OpenSUSE: 99%
- OS configuration: Ubuntu: 60%, OpenSUSE: 95%
- Look & Feel: Ubuntu: 100%, OpenSUSE: 100%

I started out with Fedora, tried Ubuntu after a while and switched to Ubuntu completely because I found Ubuntu to be more user-friendly. Then I tried OpenSUSE and it became my main and favorite Linux OS.

[anrocrle]

Hi all, my second time saying something on the forums here. I've used SuSE and openSUSE for a few years now, I do agree about the package manager speed thing however never found it to be buggy, and with 11.0 it seems to have had a new breath of life, YaST is great though, like a complete control panel. Tried Ubuntu on my machine a few months back, prefer KDE so installed that and it kept falling apart after updates, back with KDE on 11.0 and I haven't had a single glitch except a few shutdown errors with Kontact. I'm no power user but can manage my way around, and thanks to Ubuntu a bit more confident in the terminal as well.

We tried installing openSUSE on a mates pc, couldn't even get to the Xserver, live cd or not. Ubuntu loaded without a hitch but he's having KDE troubles as well, he doesn't like Gnome being an unwilling XP convert thanks to major pc hiccoughs.

All in all I like both but prefer the SUSE look, feel and now performance seems great compared to 10.3 (well on my pc).

Just thought I'd add a bit to this.

And hey the Ubuntu forums rock...

[Eiremhaith]

I haven't used linux at all, but I will be buying a new netbook with linux SuSe installed on it, and I don't know if this is the right place to ask about this, but I am going to ask because I don't have a lot of time. Is that a good linux software to learn linux? I have friends that use linux and know that there are some amazing things that you can do with a linux based machine, and really want to learn a new system. The more information I can gather the better I think I will be about learning a new system. Thanks for the information and everyone's time.

DLEHMAN1@austin.rr.com
Eire

[fauna]

Got Suse 11.0 dual booting on two computers with Intrepid Ibex..Ubuntu has had more problems but also had more solutions.I can say for sure that Suse is no Vista (or even XP)(thanks for that)and the more Linux out there,the better.Older versions of Suse came with too much useless stuff for me but the latest version seems trimmed down. Fauna ,keep it open.