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Sirin
March 22nd, 2006, 11:58 PM
http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT8171250759.html

Come on, what puts OO.o on par with Office '95? I say it's better than Office 2003. :cool:

s|k
March 23rd, 2006, 12:03 AM
http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT8171250759.html

Come on, what puts OO.o on par with Office '95? I say it's better than Office 2003. :cool:
I agree with the assesment that it's not as powerful in a business environment as Office. His comment on the email client is very true. I've worked in companies with thousands of employees who depended on Outlook for just about anything you can imagine. Without an email client that is as powerful as Outlook OpenOffice is years behind in my opinion.

BWF89
March 23rd, 2006, 12:15 AM
I don't think most desktop users use even a fraction of the features in either office suite. I know I dont'.

Qrk
March 23rd, 2006, 12:54 AM
I haven't used a new feature in MS office since '97.

So even if Openoffice is 10 years behind MS Office 2007, I wouldn't have noticed.

varunus
March 23rd, 2006, 12:56 AM
I use openoffice for everything except one thing: Excel. The charts and graphs system in openoffice...I just can't use it, for some reason. No trendline control that I can find, no R^2 values, no displaying the found equation, and no putting charts on their own sheet as a whole.

Evolution is my outlook replacement, and it works pretty well as one for my purposes.

KiwiNZ
March 23rd, 2006, 01:14 AM
For a power user I would tend to agree with the assessment.However as the vast majority of Office suite users only use about 10% of a suites power I would say that for the average user the suites are very close.

towsonu2003
March 23rd, 2006, 01:17 AM
I'll say 5 years... Not in terms of features (although some are seriously missing), but in terms of stability (I get too many crashes with 2.0.1 (linux) & 2.0.2 (windows, portable) when compared to Word 2003).

aysiu
March 23rd, 2006, 01:25 AM
I'm a "power user" at my office, and the only feature I can think of that Word has that OpenOffice doesn't is the ability to do email merges with Outlook.

Other than that, I don't use macros much or do... anything else that only Word can do. I don't even know what the differences are, really.

Doesn't OpenOffice have a grammar checker now?

s|k
March 23rd, 2006, 01:27 AM
Doesn't OpenOffice have a grammar checker now?
No, and the spell checker is terrible, especially for suggesting words.

Shampyon
March 23rd, 2006, 01:38 AM
I use Office XP at work, Open Office at home. I can honestly say there's nothing I use in OXP during my admin duties at work that I can't use as easily in OO.o at home. The only thing I'm really missing is a Publisher style app and some templates - and that last bit's because I just haven't bothered looking.

aysiu
March 23rd, 2006, 01:44 AM
No, and the spell checker is terrible, especially for suggesting words. Yeah, that would suck for most users, I think.

Fortunately, I used to be an English teacher, and I also happen to know that even Word's grammar checkers are not perfect or anywhere close.

Nevertheless, it's in development (http://lingucomponent.openoffice.org/grammar.html), and I hope it won't take ten years to implement!


The only thing I'm really missing is a Publisher style app and some templates - and that last bit's because I just haven't bothered looking. Look at Scribus. It's in the repositories.

celloandy
March 23rd, 2006, 06:02 AM
Yeah, it really is missing lots of features that are found in MS Office (decent charts, grammar checker, etc.), and while it does have some slick things like PDF output, it's still way behind, feature-wise, so saying it's feature-comparable with, say, Office '97, is probably fair. That said, however, I think Office '97 had a sufficient feature set for 95% of productivity suite users out there, so while it probably *is* ten years behind, it doesn't really matter for most people.

Andrew

aysiu
March 23rd, 2006, 06:07 AM
I think CelloAndy gives a fair assessment:

Most users' needs are ten years behind Microsoft Office, and so are OpenOffice's features (except the PDF export).

s_spiff
March 23rd, 2006, 07:23 AM
hey...it may be behind... so is linux behind windows... but it's getting there...may take a while..but no doubt that OO wil get there!

nocturn
March 23rd, 2006, 08:55 AM
I agree with the assesment that it's not as powerful in a business environment as Office. His comment on the email client is very true. I've worked in companies with thousands of employees who depended on Outlook for just about anything you can imagine. Without an email client that is as powerful as Outlook OpenOffice is years behind in my opinion.

I don't quite understand this argument... If you install Ubuntu, you have E-mail functionality from within OpenOffice, using Evolution. Which is the way it should be IMO.

What features does MSOffice/Outlook provide that OpenOffice/Evolution is missing?

nocturn
March 23rd, 2006, 08:56 AM
I'm a "power user" at my office, and the only feature I can think of that Word has that OpenOffice doesn't is the ability to do email merges with Outlook.

Other than that, I don't use macros much or do... anything else that only Word can do. I don't even know what the differences are, really.

Doesn't OpenOffice have a grammar checker now?

I think OpenOffice can do mail merges too, in the 2.x version.

nocturn
March 23rd, 2006, 08:59 AM
Yeah, it really is missing lots of features that are found in MS Office (decent charts, grammar checker, etc.), and while it does have some slick things like PDF output, it's still way behind, feature-wise, so saying it's feature-comparable with, say, Office '97, is probably fair. That said, however, I think Office '97 had a sufficient feature set for 95% of productivity suite users out there, so while it probably *is* ten years behind, it doesn't really matter for most people.

Andrew

Even if it does have a feature set comparable to Off 9x, at least it works correctly. I found the 9x a nightmare to use (crash, boom, bang -> document corrupted...). Actually, Word97 completely screwing my thesis was the breaking point in wiping win98 from my dual boot back in 1999...

aysiu
March 23rd, 2006, 09:25 AM
I think OpenOffice can do mail merges too, in the 2.x version. email merges?

commodore
March 23rd, 2006, 09:56 AM
OpenOffice is behind, but TEN YEARS???! That's definetly not true.

blastus
March 23rd, 2006, 03:22 PM
Even if it does have a feature set comparable to Off 9x, at least it works correctly. I found the 9x a nightmare to use (crash, boom, bang -> document corrupted...). Actually, Word97 completely screwing my thesis was the breaking point in wiping win98 from my dual boot back in 1999...

Word 97 and Access 97 were the most unstable buggy pieces of garbage ever conceived. I've had so many documents/databases corrupted by Word 97/Access 97. I found Word 97 so extremely unstable to the point of being useless. If you want to do a one or two page document then fine, but if you need to write larger documents with embedded images/diagrams, good luck.

jbennett
March 23rd, 2006, 03:52 PM
I don't quite understand this argument... If you install Ubuntu, you have E-mail functionality from within OpenOffice, using Evolution. Which is the way it should be IMO.

What features does MSOffice/Outlook provide that OpenOffice/Evolution is missing?

First, I admit that I haven't used OO.o much as of yet so if anything I say isn't entirely accurate then, by all means, correct me.

I work for a very large company and we use Outlook to do just about everything. I can view the schedule of any person in the corporation (across the US and UK) and schedule large meetings very easily. Outlook also integrates Microsoft NetMeeting so that you can provide the people you invite with the appropriate information. Also, we have hundreds of conference rooms that I can reserve through Outlook as well. Does Evolution have this capability?

After having said all that, when I get home from work, I use MS Office/Open Office to do very basic things. So, for the average user, OpenOffice is sufficient in my opinion, it just may not be suited for corporate uses.

nocturn
March 23rd, 2006, 04:11 PM
email merges?

Don't shoot me if it isn't true, but yes, I thought so.

EDIT - Apparantly, not by default: http://internet.cybermesa.com/%7Eaaron_w/OOo_email_merge/OOo_email_merge.html

nocturn
March 23rd, 2006, 04:15 PM
I can view the schedule of any person in the corporation (across the US and UK) and schedule large meetings very easily. Outlook also integrates Microsoft NetMeeting so that you can provide the people you invite with the appropriate information. Also, we have hundreds of conference rooms that I can reserve through Outlook as well. Does Evolution have this capability?


What you are talking about is not Office functionality, it is Exchange (Outlook can't do that without the server software).

And yes, Evolution can do all those things on Exchange too. There is considerable work being done on an OSS alternative for the exchange server though.

jbennett
March 23rd, 2006, 04:33 PM
What you are talking about is not Office functionality, it is Exchange (Outlook can't do that without the server software).

And yes, Evolution can do all those things on Exchange too. There is considerable work being done on an OSS alternative for the exchange server though.


You're right. I hadn't given any thought to the fact that without the Exchange Server all of that functionality would be lost. And I didn't know that Evolution had that capability (that's good to know).

Master Shake
March 23rd, 2006, 04:36 PM
Count me as one who doesn't like OOo... For word processing, Abiword does what I need. Desktop publishing, Scribus (That program is sweet!). Email? I use web portals, so no need for outlook-type apps.

dragonfyre13
March 23rd, 2006, 04:55 PM
Count me as one who doesn't like OOo... For word processing, Abiword does what I need. Desktop publishing, Scribus (That program is sweet!). Email? I use web portals, so no need for outlook-type apps.

99% of the time I use the Gmail interface. (why would you use anything else? ^_^) Otherwise, I play around with Evolution, which seems just as useful as outlook, without all the crap you have to go through with outlook.

As for OOo, the feature I'm really missing is correct copy/paste. In word, I can copy/paste ANYTHING and it Just Works(tm) . With OOo, I copy paste, and it works 90% of the time. The rest of the time, the formatting is wrong, or pictures don't get carried over.

As for marcos, and things like that, check out Star Office. Grab the free trial with the macro converters, and all the extra stuff. It's pretty neat, but expensive. I think it's like $90 or something.

trorion
March 26th, 2006, 04:37 AM
Lets see...Office 2003 came out in 2002 so that would make OO about 5 years behind office 2003. I think both suites are rather second rate overall to tell the truth. In short there is no office suite which just flat out works.

But what I get in 2003; I get a lot more squiggly lines telling me that things like "Dear Messrs Smith and Johnson" is improper english. Styatopygia is apparently not a word. Took me forever to figure out how to stop the dang thing from changing what I was typing and with 1/2 of the fonts if you use a 7pt font it corrects things (for example, it 'corrects' my i to be I) when I don't want it to.

My company has about 400 public outlook folders which I have to access maybe 3 times a month. I'm supposed to use them but frankly I don't have any interest in looking through 400 folders to find some obscure report so I just tell them to email it to me.

Why do I have Office 2003? My office started formatting everything in 2003 and '97 wouldn't read it.

But I digress...neither office suite is worthwhile.](*,)

but excel is superior to calculate.

ihavenoname
July 27th, 2006, 04:13 AM
I saw this on another forum somewhere and I wanted to clear this up. People say that MS Office is "Much" better/faster then Open Office. I beg to differ. MS office is limited in the types of formats (.doc etc. ) that it can output to. Open Office is not. Also Open Office can output to PDF format a feature still missing from MS OFFICE afaik.

On the speed issue, I honestly exhibt the same speeds (OOo might actually be a little faster) this is with Both Office XP and 2003. Also one thing most people don't know is that MS Office actually lauches half way @ start-up. I am not very good at explaining this but, if you go to the run "console" (Hit the Win key + r) and type
"msconfig". Then go to the startup tab and scroll down and you should see Microsoft Office somewhere there.


Final Point Open Office is free.

Verdict: There is no contest, MS Office loses everytime.

I did not include all the arugments in there I leave that for the rest of you. I just wanted to point out a few points.

aysiu
July 27th, 2006, 04:31 AM
For most home users, OpenOffice is probably a better choice (cheaper, suits all their needs).

But MS Office does, in fact, have features the OpenOffice does not.

For example, the change case function has only two kinds of case in OpenOffice--UPPERCASE and lowercase. MS Word allows you to change sentence case and title case as well. OpenOffice does not have a grammar checker. MS Office does.

Do those features matter to most home users? No. But you can't declare "There is no contest, MS Office loses everytime" when you've chosen to compare only the criteria by which MS Office does lose.

slimdog360
July 27th, 2006, 05:01 AM
Also MS office can create pdf's, but you need to download a plug-in. Ive got it with mine although it is a little buggy. If you try saving large files as pdf it crashes.

aysiu
July 27th, 2006, 05:04 AM
Also MS office can create pdf's, but you need to download a plug-in. Ive got it with mine although it is a little buggy. If you try saving large files as pdf it crashes.
The Mac version of MS Office can create PDFs (no need for an extra plugin).

Skia_42
July 27th, 2006, 05:58 AM
For most windows users, MS office provides reliablity. If you have used it for years and you don't have time to learn a new office suite, MS office is good and it works. I personally think that OpenOffice is better but I know people who can't afford to put time into learning a new suite if MS works just fine for them.

ihavenoname
July 27th, 2006, 06:08 AM
aysiu said:

For most home users, OpenOffice is probably a better choice (cheaper, suits all their needs).

But MS Office does, in fact, have features the OpenOffice does not.

For example, the change case function has only two kinds of case in OpenOffice--UPPERCASE and lowercase. MS Word allows you to change sentence case and title case as well. OpenOffice does not have a grammar checker. MS Office does.

Do those features matter to most home users? No. But you can't declare "There is no contest, MS Office loses everytime" when you've chosen to compare only the criteria by which MS Office does lose.



What I have said was simply my opinion and some of the reasons why I came to this conclusion(and was in no way supposed to be a complete analysis of the two. I simply wanted to point out where OOo was better.) In many cases the MS Office grammar check has either been useless to me or counterproductive (maybe others had better luck though). I did state that I have left out a lot of arguments (and I meant both for OOo as well as against it) My verdict was based on my experience alone. I do understand what you are saying though and I am glad you pointed out those features in MS Office. MS Office is not a "bad" product, it is just not worth the price. Especially when Free (in both meanings of the word) alternatives exist. For the most part when I started this thread it was in response to a thread I came across in another forum ( I forgot which one) in which some one was attempting to say that MS Office was far superior to Open Office, and that Ms Office was much faster. Perhaps I should have clarified these point in the original post.

Biltong (Dee)
July 27th, 2006, 06:12 AM
I love the keyboard shortcuts that MS Office offers - i.e Alt 156 gives me a Pound sign - great for UK quotes. Maybe I haven't really looked hard enough, but the one and only time I used Open Office the shortcuts didn't work for me.

I also use Outlook extensively, and for business there is NO other email program that can compare, and it uses MS Word as an editor.

Also, if you have Adobe professional as I have, it intergrates itself into Word and makes PDF's a breeze.

Now, Open Office may be free, which for a lot of people is wonderful as MS Office requires payment in 'blood and the life of your first-born son', but for business it cannot compare.

aysiu
July 27th, 2006, 06:19 AM
Business--MS Office.
Schools--OpenOffice.
Home users--OpenOffice.

That's my verdict. For business, I'm thinking particularly of Excel--Macros, Pivot Tables, etc. But for schools and for home users, OpenOffice offers just about everything teachers and "regular" folk need.

_simon_
July 27th, 2006, 08:09 AM
I tried to move my parents to OpenOffice as their install of MS Office isn't legit and there was talk on the net of MS implementing checks for Office like they do windows.

The only reason they aren't even interested in trying OpenOffice is because it's not MS Office! They seem to think because it's not the same product they won't be able to use it. I've explained it will do everything they want as home users and the layout is virtually the same. I've offered to let them try it on my pc, I've offered to install it for them.... nothing I say will convince them. Instead my father is looking to buy a legit Ms Office CD costing a few hundred £!

jordilin
July 27th, 2006, 08:33 AM
In MS Office they have Access, that in my opinion has no rival app in Linux. OpenOffice has a database app but lacks the power of Access. Regarding the other Office apps, OpenOffice is in my opinion a very good choice. It depends of your needs, but in general not everybody writes large novels or complex essays and reports. So, OpenOffice fits the general audience.

Hanj
July 27th, 2006, 09:47 AM
I've used OOo writer for all my word processing for the last year and I have never found myself missing any feature. That said, I've heard Calc and Impress don't stand a chance against their MS competitors (I never use those anyway so I don't know). I also think the new GUI for Office 2007 look really cool, hope we can get something like that for OO.

DoctorMO
July 27th, 2006, 10:58 AM
I can't compare, I don't use windows it burns my skin.

OpenOffice or KOffice or Gnome Office... hmm choices choices.

Enigmus
July 27th, 2006, 11:19 AM
Well OpenOffice is free and all, so I couldn't complain. However Microsoft Office has a lot more features. Both things really balance each other out. Hard to make a decision

Miguel
July 27th, 2006, 11:42 AM
Well, for a change, I will complain. OpenOffice.org is big, is slow and is so complex nobody really understands it. What's more, MS Office is (99% sure) lighter and has more features. What's worse, I find it very likely that OOo will try to compete with MS Office by adding more features. I find this the wrong approach for Write, although Calc needs a few more things. IMHO, OOo would improve a lot if they stopped looking at MS Office and made the suite much lighter and faster. I know it's getting better, but I don't expect any radical thing before 3.0.

Anyway, just ignore my rant. I am a happy LaTeX user that left the WYSIWYG world in 2001. And for the things I do in Calc, awk will also help me.

BTW: Does OOo show that infamous bug where the same document is displayed differently in different computers?

EDIT: To compensate, MS Office is always getting fatter and more useless. You know, you have to sell something different from Office 97

Mathiasdm
July 27th, 2006, 11:45 AM
MS office is limited in the types of formats (.doc etc. ) that it can output to. Open Office is not. Also Open Office can output to PDF format a feature still missing from MS OFFICE afaik.
True.


On the speed issue, I honestly exhibt the same speeds (OOo might actually be a little faster) this is with Both Office XP and 2003. Also one thing most people don't know is that MS Office actually lauches half way @ start-up. I am not very good at explaining this but, if you go to the run "console" (Hit the Win key + r) and type
"msconfig". Then go to the startup tab and scroll down and you should see Microsoft Office somewhere there.
I have OpenOffice Quicklauncher (so it's loaded into memory, or however it works), and Office launches faster -- or at least, when I still had it installed. OpenOffice is just slow. That's the big downside to it (for me).



Final Point Open Office is free.

Verdict: There is no contest, MS Office loses everytime.

I did not include all the arugments in there I leave that for the rest of you. I just wanted to point out a few points.
Ever heard about SharePoint?
Office has its use, you know. If you're working in a team, Office is better than OpenOffice.

If you're just the average computer user, OpenOffice is just as good.

Oh, and OpenOffice has 1 benefit for me: the Mathematics thing (whatever it's called).
Being free, is that a feature? I prefer to choose programs based on quality, not on price.

AndyCooll
July 27th, 2006, 12:41 PM
I use OpenOffice all the time. All my boxes at home are Linux. I even have the PortableApp version on my USB stick which I use at work instead of Office 2003 which is installed on my work pc.

I prefer to use oOo because I like it and I'm more familiar with it, because it's free and because for me it does everything I need it to do.

That said MS Office is undoubtedly a good product and the benchmark. And I agree, oOo is slow to load up, and in some areas has some catching up to do. In truth, MS Office is overall the better product ...however it certainly isn't 100's of pounds better! And that's the point for me, in oOo I can still get a quality product that rivals MS Office in functionality, does all that I need it to do, satisfactorily opens up any MS Office document and is FREE!

:cool:

Erik Trybom
July 27th, 2006, 01:52 PM
Since I discovered Latex, and spent a day learning it, I no longer care for neither of them. Latex-produced pdf:s look so much better than anything I've ever seen, and you can use any text editor to write the source files. No matter how fast or slow MS Office or Open Office may be, Gedit will always be MUCH faster.

I know this is a bit off topic, but by all means it shouldn't be. Open Office is a nice product that competes with MS Office, but Latex is so good and widely accepted that MS doesn't even have a competing product. I think we should promote it more. If people started using Latex instead of MS Word, the transition to Linux would be much easier since Latex can be used on all platforms.

blastus
July 27th, 2006, 02:38 PM
Ever heard about SharePoint?

SharePoint-The Future of Lock-in (http://weblog.infoworld.com/openresource/archives/2006/05/the_future_of_l.html)


If you're working in a team, Office is better than OpenOffice.

How so? Does MS-Office provide some special (albiet useless feature IMO) like several people being able to edit the same document concurrently? Even MS-VSS doesn't allow that, but Subversion does. The average business shares documents by storing them on centrally located file servers and it suits the needs of most businesses just fine.

seshomaru samma
July 27th, 2006, 02:47 PM
I prefer MS office
The reason is that it supports Asian system of wrting (from top to bottom) ,a feature which I haven't been able to find in OO.
Another reason is that the synonyms option is installed in MS Ofice by default - I used that a lot for English. I know OO has a similar feature but I never managed to get it to work.

Mathiasdm
July 27th, 2006, 02:51 PM
SharePoint-The Future of Lock-in (http://weblog.infoworld.com/openresource/archives/2006/05/the_future_of_l.html)



How so? Does MS-Office provide some special (albiet useless feature IMO) like several people being able to edit the same document concurrently? Even MS-VSS doesn't allow that, but Subversion does. The average business shares documents by storing them on centrally located file servers and it suits the needs of most businesses just fine.
I'm not saying Sharepoint is 'A Good Thing'.
It's just another annoying lock-in (like shows in the blog you linked to.
However, it IS useful for businesses.

Lord Illidan
July 27th, 2006, 03:09 PM
I can't compare, I don't use windows it burns my skin.

OpenOffice or KOffice or Gnome Office... hmm choices choices.

It burns your skin? Right, show people everywhere that we are crazy linux zealots who don't look any further than our noses. :^o

MS Office beats Open Office in speed, at least on my computer. What's interesting is that Open Office is faster on Windows than on Linux, with quickstart enabled on both OSes. On Windows, it is comparable to MS Office, on Linux, it lags behind, even when there aren't a lot of apps open.

In terms of features, MS Office wins again. Powerpoint is easier to use than Impress, Access is better than Base, and Excel is the king. Word and Write are comparable, though Write is slower.

Some things are very slow to do with Open Office. For example, making a page background in Impress. You have to do triple the steps it would take you in MS Office.

Also, MS Office looks better than Open Office for some reason. In Gnome, Open Office doesn't look bad. But the KDE icons of Open Office suck big time. Also, the GUI is slow, and doesn't blend in with the environment widgets, unlike Abiword. Office 2007 beats the **** out of Open Office in design, although it is now as slow as it. Yet, the layperson likes eyecandy.

That said..yes, MS Office is more expensive. But in the days of warez and so on, that is not such a factor. Although everyone has MS Office, it doesn't mean that everyone paid for it.

That said...I use Open Office at home, because I love free software. And I have persuaded, or forced :cool: my two sisters to use it. And they like it, so far.

brentoboy
July 27th, 2006, 04:14 PM
a quick comparison, for the record:
(on my windows box, because I am at work)

Abi Word 2.4 for windows:
Cold Loading time: less than 1 second
Warm Loading time: Instantanious
Memory usage with nothing opened: 8,020 K

Ms Word 2000
Cold Loading time: 3 or 4 seconds
Warm Loading time: Less than 1 second
Memory usage with nothing opened: 9,928 K

OO Writer 2.0 (for windows):
Cold Load time: about 15 seconds
Warm Load time: 4 to 6 seconds
Memory usage with nothing opened: 37,472 K

----
there is no comparison. ms word is better than OOo

OOo has a few things on its side:
its free (as in speach, and as in beer)
and its platform independant.

after ODF catches on, OOo will have the advantage of having native support for the most widly used document format, but right now, that seat belongs to word.

---
I like OOo more than MS office for many reasons, but "all around superior" isnt one of them.

OOo is bloatware -- even when compared with MSo
I'm sorry to say it, but it is.

I am an open source advocate. But that doesnt mean I am *completely* blind.

DoctorMO
July 27th, 2006, 04:19 PM
It burns your skin? Right, show people everywhere that we are crazy linux zealots who don't look any further than our noses. :^o


I don't look further than my computers capabilities.

ihavenoname
July 27th, 2006, 04:28 PM
Using some of MS's "new" apps (IE7 etc.) I have found that although they do look nicer, they are not quite as usable. Seceral of the things that I was used to on Windows have been changed so much that it has actually become rather confusing to use Windows. Many of the features that are being pointed out are somewhat nice, but honestly how often do you, as a normal user, need to use them. (Theasuarus is probably the most useful feature pointed out(I forgot about it before). But wouldn't it be just as easy to use an online theasaurus? It's not that MS isn't a nice product, it is. It is just that the features you are paying for aren't usually worth it. If you are a big corporation then I don't know if Open Office would be the way to go. But if you are just a home user, then I wouldn't but Open Office. And Warez/Hacked versions of MS Office are not the way to go. Honeslty I feel bad using them because when the MS Office devs made the program they did it "knowing" they would be compenstated for their time. If you really think it is better then why don't you pay for it so that they can continue to make their amazing product. Stealing it is disrespectful and can get you in trouble.

ihavenoname
July 27th, 2006, 04:31 PM
now has anyone used Koffice? What are the advanatges/disadvantages to OOo?

aysiu
July 27th, 2006, 04:32 PM
now has anyone used Koffice? What are the advanatges/disadvantages to OOo?
KWord (part of KOffice) can import and edit PDFs.

G Morgan
July 27th, 2006, 04:36 PM
MSO is undoubtedly better than OOo but:
1. OOo is capable
2. OOo is free
3. OOo will get better
4. OOo works natively on Linux

Points 3 and 4 are the killers for me. I use OOo over my legal copy of MSO because it needs support to get better and I can run it with no hassle on my chosen platform. If MS released a native Linux version of MSO though I'd probably buy a copy, it is one of their better products.

Yossarian
July 27th, 2006, 04:56 PM
Aysiu is right. Open office is good enough for most people, myself included.

I usually install abiword and gnumeric, as I mostly just need a word processor and spreadsheet program. I install open office to get total coverege. I have a copy of word 2000 that I use in windows sometime, that came with my PC.

ihavenoname
July 27th, 2006, 04:56 PM
MSO is undoubtedly better than OOo but:
1. OOo is capable
2. OOo is free
3. OOo will get better
4. OOo works natively on Linux

Points 3 and 4 are the killers for me. I use OOo over my legal copy of MSO because it needs support to get better and I can run it with no hassle on my chosen platform. If MS released a native Linux version of MSO though I'd probably buy a copy, it is one of their better products.
Excellent point.

Brunellus
July 27th, 2006, 05:09 PM
the difference I see--and what would prevent my employer from switching--is that there are a number of add-ons to MS office which are implemented as Visual Basic macros/scripts. As a standalone office suite, OpenOffice is easily enough for my needs--because I don't rely on any funky VB stuff to get me through the day.

The lesson is that there exists something I like to think of as second-order vendor dependence; an entire class of proprietary software that itself depends on a primary type of proprietary software for its survival.

That's not to say that OpenOffice couldn't or shouldn't be considered at all for larger-scale corporate use. Famously, Sun Microsystems uses StarOffice exclusively within its corporate network. Many years back, Sun reasoned that they were a big enough corporation that it was actually **cheaper** to buy StarOffice (then a proprietary suite), use it internally, and opensource it than it was to have bought however many thousand MS Office licenses over many years.

teet
July 27th, 2006, 05:26 PM
I believe OpenOffice is "good enough" for most people as others have stated. However, it hasn't been able to do everything I need it to do as easily as I would have liked. (Note: I was a Biology/Math major in College).

1. Have you ever tried to insert page number in OpenOffice? It's a real pain to do, plus you have to screw around with the margins if you don't want a huge white gap at the bottom of your page.

2. Grammar Checking. I use it. I need it. I have fairly good grammar as is and so the grammar checking in word simply reminds me of things that I can never seem to remember (lay/lie/lain *shudders*) or makes me rethink certain sentences that MAY have an error. I like this a lot.

3. Have you ever tried to make an XY-scatter plot and insert a line of best fit with the Equation and R-squared value on the graph in OOCalc? I believe it is possible, but it's a real pain to do. As a Biology major, I had to do this A LOT.

4. Office has more/better clipart. Myself, I hate clipart, but my mom likes to use it. I realize there is an openclipart project, so I hope this is not an issue in the future.

These are just a few of the issues that I've come across. I have rather limited needs when it comes to an office suite so I'm sure there are others. I'm not trying to dis OOo seeing as how it's free and all...just trying to point out that OOo is not quite there for ME yet. It's close though.

-teet

Brunellus
July 27th, 2006, 05:33 PM
I've never used grammar checking. Ever. It could get tedious, especially if you quote directly from sources whose grammar doesn't passs muster with Clippy...ditto sources who don't speak English.

G Morgan
July 27th, 2006, 05:36 PM
Not to mention that the Office grammar checker is wrong as often as it is right even in normal circumstances.

aysiu
July 27th, 2006, 05:39 PM
Not to mention that the Office grammar checker is wrong as often as it is right even in normal circumstances.
Spellcheckers and grammar checkers use algorithms and patterns. English is a language with too many quirks for those tools to do you a lot of good.

If you know grammar, you'll catch mistakes yourself--grammar checkers will lull you into a false sense of security. If you don't know grammar, you'll still have a document riddled with mistakes even after you check out all the green, squiggly underlines.

Nevertheless, for the right kind of person, it can help you catch a mistake or two.

DoctorMO
July 27th, 2006, 05:59 PM
There is a really nice linux lib which I programmed with once that would take an english sentance and be quite strict about applying correct grammer, it wasn't able to produce sujestions but it would pick out if you used the wrong kind of words in the wrong places.

krazyd
July 27th, 2006, 06:03 PM
Referencing. Sorry, but there is just no good equivalent in the linux world to Endnote / MS Office (yet). And I need this.

Carrots171
July 27th, 2006, 06:24 PM
If you use the OpenOffice quickstarter/pre-loader/whatever it's called it only takes a few seconds to start up. OpenOffice has a few quirks but I think it's worth it because OpenOffice suits my needs and is free while MS Office is very expensive.

I understand that some people need a feature in MS Office that OpenOffice doesn't have, but for the "average home user", OpenOffice is fine.

aysiu
July 27th, 2006, 06:27 PM
The bottom line remains this:

1. There are a lot of users (mainly home users--not businesses) who buy MS Office, do not know OpenOffice is an alternative, and would have all their office needs fulfilled by OpenOffice.

2. There are very few (possibly no) OpenOffice users who should be using MS Office but don't know it exists.

Brunellus
July 27th, 2006, 06:34 PM
Referencing. Sorry, but there is just no good equivalent in the linux world to Endnote / MS Office (yet). And I need this.
You don't need MS Word/Endnote. You want a document editor like LyX, which is a frontend for LaTeX and BibTeX, the combination of which is far more powerful.

Word is a tool which has been (over)extended to have capabilities beyond its design specification, I think. LyX is a tool whose scope has been very narrow and focused, and consequently, works very well for what it was intended to do. If your needs match up with its abilities, there really is nothing else to use.

For that matter, Indexing has been a weak point of Microsoft products for years; back in the MS-DOS 3.x days my dad used WordStar--and he still misses WordStar's tagging & indexing features to this day. It makes you wonder--if developers were able to implement it on a 'rudimentary' word processor in '86 why subsequent "superior" software hasn't kept pace.

G Morgan
July 27th, 2006, 06:38 PM
Spellcheckers and grammar checkers use algorithms and patterns. English is a language with too many quirks for those tools to do you a lot of good.

If you know grammar, you'll catch mistakes yourself--grammar checkers will lull you into a false sense of security. If you don't know grammar, you'll still have a document riddled with mistakes even after you check out all the green, squiggly underlines.

Nevertheless, for the right kind of person, it can help you catch a mistake or two.

Precisely, the use of heuristics leaves a mountain of edge cases. If it was possible to create a solid formulation of a natural language then we'd have perfect spam filters rather than decent ones.

Dragonbite
July 27th, 2006, 06:53 PM
I like how MS Office, you can install just those programs you want to use. Like how often do I use PowerPoint?

Or if I am not going to use the computer at all, I can skip installing Excel, Access or FrontPage (I've got Office 2000).

My wife only uses Word and Publisher from Office (I'm trying to move her over to Scribus but it isn't that easy...)

teet
July 27th, 2006, 08:00 PM
I've never used grammar checking. Ever. It could get tedious, especially if you quote directly from sources whose grammar doesn't passs muster with Clippy...ditto sources who don't speak English.

If I'm quoting something with a lot of mistakes I simply ignore the little green squigglies. It's not that big of a deal.


Spellcheckers and grammar checkers use algorithms and patterns. English is a language with too many quirks for those tools to do you a lot of good.

If you know grammar, you'll catch mistakes yourself--grammar checkers will lull you into a false sense of security. If you don't know grammar, you'll still have a document riddled with mistakes even after you check out all the green, squiggly underlines.

Nevertheless, for the right kind of person, it can help you catch a mistake or two.

Exactly. I have fairly good grammar and so the grammar check is actually useful to me. Let's say that the grammar check underlines 10 things in a short letter I have written. Out of those 10 things, only 2 of them may be actual mistakes that I need to correct. After reviewing the suggestions, I may decide that other 8 items are correct. I would rather have the grammar checker commit 8 false-positive errors than even just 1 false-negative.

For what it's worth, I can't recall EVER having any points deducted for grammar on anything I've turned in for a grade in high school or college.

-teet

Lord Illidan
July 27th, 2006, 08:28 PM
You know what really bugs me though... Firefox takes up more RAM than Open Office, and it is a frickin browser...:mad:

Speaking of Open Office, my young sisters really miss Word Art. I couldn't give a damn about the damn thing, but for them it is a killer feature. See what I mean? For my needs, Open Office is good enough..Abiword also. Koffice is an unstable bag of doughnuts but it will improve. But for some people, MS Office is not. And the time taken to replace that lost productivity while moving to Open Office can be more expensive than the cost of a license.

I hope Novell will improve Office, particularly by getting more support for VBA macros. Also, I hope Office will get faster...and I mean it...no more features, but a diet. Same for Firefox.

P.S. : Regarding grammar : Each grammar mistake, along with each spelling mistake costs us a mark in our school. So a really good essay by your standards could land only a 7 or a 6 out of 10.

P.P.S. :
Stealing it is disrespectful and can get you in trouble. I couldn't agree more. But not everyone has the money to pay for it...and as for getting in trouble...I doubt it.

P.P.P.S : Regarding the ODF being the most widely used format. If .doc remains the default format in Ms Office, it will remain the most widely used format.

Brunellus
July 27th, 2006, 08:58 PM
For what it's worth, I can't recall EVER having any points deducted for grammar on anything I've turned in for a grade in high school or college.


Funny... I have. Many times. But that's what Latin class was for.

Lord Illidan
July 27th, 2006, 09:03 PM
Funny... I have. Many times. But that's what Latin class was for.

Ha! But ours was in plain old English!! I still remember my German grammar mistakes, though.. Old Akkusativ, how I hate thee!

AndyCooll
July 28th, 2006, 12:34 AM
MSO is undoubtedly better than OOo but:
1. OOo is capable
2. OOo is free
3. OOo will get better
4. OOo works natively on Linux

Points 3 and 4 are the killers for me.

Excellent. Totally agree.

:cool:

kopinux
July 28th, 2006, 01:41 AM
theres no debate really, open office wins if you are concern with the price, and are installing office apps with dozens of computers for office use.

ihavenoname
July 28th, 2006, 01:44 AM
On thing I have come to notice, many people (perhaps including my self) give OOo slack when it has problems because it's "free" we should be taking these problems and making suggestions to the devs,Perhaps even making our own fixes (that might be difficult, but who said everything had to be easy). The same goes for firefox. I would like to point out that since I started Linux one year ago OOo has improved quite a bit. I remember when it took 45+ seconds to start. Now it's 15 seconds (the first time) then 2-6 seconds afterward. Gnome has also gotten much faster. The least improved app might just be Firefox (I could be wrong). Let's hope this changes.

manojvekaria
September 5th, 2006, 09:45 AM
I had a loook at open office, and i've used office 2007 beta for some few months. Open office looks like Ms excel 1998, while the Ms office 2007 looks very promising. Its got huge features. The ribbon, is the one i like very much. Can anyone add the function to open office.

What do you think?
who's the winner in business world? Open office or Ms office 2007

I think office 2007 is way ahead of open office. Open source needs a long way to go to over come Microsoft



Microsoft:twisted: Ubuntu's:cool: biggest rival:rolleyes:
What do you think:-k

slimdog360
September 5th, 2006, 09:50 AM
I think I couldn't care less.

Titus A Duxass
September 5th, 2006, 10:28 AM
Open office sure costs less!

jethro10
September 5th, 2006, 10:33 AM
Perhaps the main things you miss are:-

Cost to businesses with 100's of users. Is it worth the extra?
Cost to home user? I'd rather spend $300 dollars or whatever on Beer and Pizza.

Good enough syndrome. Is Open office good enough.

Open Office is similar to older MS office versions so training for OOo is almost zero, training and time lost learning new MS office features.

In business its not about getting all excitied and wetting your pants, its about running parts of the business in a cost effective manner.

manojvekaria
September 5th, 2006, 10:40 AM
That's what we oo users think. What about the world outside.
They're crazy after MS.

calvinthomas
September 5th, 2006, 11:00 AM
I had a play with the Office 2007 beta a while ago and I have to say its very pretty looking and there are some nice features..... however:

The majority of the changes (if not all) for the average user and even average businesses are aesthetics and even nice changes to the design (which I personally don't think all of them are) aren't always the best for a couple of reasons:

1) People like what they are used to, change is almost always seen as bad.

2) Learning curve, even simple changes annoy people and businesses will have to retrain at least some of their staff.

I've watched several people try open office after using office 2000 and they have found that difficult, despite the fact that the changes are essentially zero.

Having said that: Aesthetics sell, Office 2007 will sell without doubt, I don't think the issue for Linux software should be to copy Microsoft software but to use what they have got right and change the things they get wrong.

Calv

monktbd
September 5th, 2006, 11:01 AM
MS office rules the business world because:

it exists for ages and is very much promoted by MS.

it is also widespread because a lot of people know it from their home computers (although often a stolen copy)

since other companies use it as well it is easy to interchange files.

it is almost the only piece of software taught in courses.

some companies are dependant on the VB extensions and on access DB.



i wish it wouldnt be that way and personally dont need it.
OO calc is not as god and fast as MS excel. so at work i prefer excel to calc.
OO is on a very good way, especially the open document format is something to applaud.
it will take a while though to be able to replace MS office... unfortunately.

Anonii
September 5th, 2006, 11:09 AM
I had a loook at open office, and i've used office 2007 beta for some few months. Open office looks like Ms excel 1998, while the Ms office 2007 looks very promising. Its got huge features. The ribbon, is the one i like very much. Can anyone add the function to open office.

What do you think?
who's the winner in business world? Open office or Ms office 2007

I think office 2007 is way ahead of open office. Open source needs a long way to go to over come Microsoft



Microsoft:twisted: Ubuntu's:cool: biggest rival:rolleyes:
What do you think:-k
Yep, MS Office is miles ahead of Open Office objectively, if we dont count the price. It has tons of extra features that OO doesnt even dream of (OOs is great, but it lacks features), and its obviously easier and more practical which matters a lot in big coorps.
Well, OO is not only free like the beer but like the speech too, but unfortunately, big coorps dont really care about the open-source because they are not gonna modify the code or anything. Also, MS is a huge and smart business and they are obviously giving special packs for many PCs in big coorps, with special prices etc. And obviously the corps prefer to have a product from a name like "Microsoft" which is famous, feature-rich with telephone support, with worldwide schools teaching it and the 80% of the world prefers it than using an open-source program that can be free but lucks features, users, and support (Alltho the Linux community is great.).

This message was my opinion, and I may be wrong. (I've never really used Office that much anyway, except from the school projects etc.)

gn2
September 5th, 2006, 11:23 AM
For the average home PC user, MS Office (any version) is a complete waste of money.

As is super-fast high power hardware.

But lots of people will always want bigger faster stylish better shinier than yours stuff, otherwise companies like Ferrari wouldn't exist.

Microsoft Office is like a high power executive car, a small Toyota Corolla will go shopping and get the kids to school just as well, but doesn't have the badge appeal.

steve.horsley
September 5th, 2006, 01:19 PM
Someone's busy trolling today, aren't they?

ayllu
October 28th, 2006, 05:59 AM
I think oppen office and ms office are just the same... you can do almost the same ficutions but allways depends of what you need to do, in my case open writer or m$ word do the same things just i can not print like a book style but is works fine... M$ dosnt have a good interaction whit pdf, also does not have autocomplete like oo has, obut themes is different, word spelling are almost the same in grammar well oo does not have but the grammar corrector in m$ word works badly and is not a solution for the grammar mistakes, especially in spanish... the best thing for oppen office is that everyone can help to upgrade and increase oo capabilitys... well and also you are contributing for free and open software... The problem with oo is when you are working in a office whit everybody on m$ thats make some mistakes in especially functions in sharing documents buts is work well, and no body use oo or m$o all functions

Sirin
October 28th, 2006, 06:40 AM
OOo Writer takes longer to start up on Linux (42.1 seconds) than it takes for my Windows system to boot up (and my Windows partition is almost full, heavily used, and of all things, a FAT32 partition, and I'm using quickstart with OOo).

Whereas Word 2007 takes shorter than 10 seconds to load (and this is on the Windows FAT32 partition.)

When it comes to start times, MS Office wins (no, I'm not an MSFT fanboy).

mgmiller
November 19th, 2006, 08:06 PM
The one complaint a lot of people have is the slow startup time for Open Office. If you start up the word processor and go to Tools>Options expand the first item on the left that says openoffice.org The 3rd entry down is memory. Click on that and in the screen on the right side check the box that says OpenOffice.org Quickstarter Enable systray quickstarter.

That's it. click OK and after that, open office will load instantly. It will be using more system resources, but that is just the same way Microsoft Office manages to start faster. More of an apples to apples comparison that way. Besides, with a gig of ram or more, it's really not a problem.

Miguel
November 19th, 2006, 08:16 PM
Hi mgmiller,


That's it. click OK and after that, open office will load instantly. It will be using more system resources, but that is just the same way Microsoft Office manages to start faster. More of an apples to apples comparison that way. Besides, with a gig of ram or more, it's really not a problem.

Your trick is OK but is just a workaround. It doesn't address the monster tha t OOo is. In my case, I use LaTeX (with VIm) for typesetting, and handle calculations OK with either scilaw or awk. So I use OOo when some "friend" sends me an attachment, or when I have to fill in grants or similar. Loading such a mammoth for such a trivial task feels unnecessary.

qamelian
November 19th, 2006, 08:22 PM
Hi mgmiller,



Your trick is OK but is just a workaround. It doesn't address the monster tha t OOo is. In my case, I use LaTeX (with VIm) for typesetting, and handle calculations OK with either scilaw or awk. So I use OOo when some "friend" sends me an attachment, or when I have to fill in grants or similar. Loading such a mammoth for such a trivial task feels unnecessary.
Then the supposedly faster load time of MS Office is also a workaround. MS Office by default installs a utility that preloads portions of MS Office exactly the same way the OOo Quickstarter does.

Kernel Sanders
November 19th, 2006, 08:27 PM
MS Office by a country mile. It looks better, its faster, it has more features, and it uses .doc .xls etc, which is the industry standard, and can be made to save to PDF's easily too.

Open Office is free, thats about it :/ It also has poor support for .doc and .xls etc..

aysiu
November 19th, 2006, 08:28 PM
MS Office by a country mile. It looks better, its faster, it has more features, and it uses .doc .xls etc, which is the industry standard, and can be made to save to PDF's easily too.

Open Office is free, thats about it :/ It also has poor support for .doc and .xls etc..
Are you serious? "can be made to save to PDF's easily too"?

OpenOffice saves to PDFs by default. It also supports more formats than MS Office does, including .doc and .xls.

Miguel
November 19th, 2006, 08:36 PM
Then the supposedly faster load time of MS Office is also a workaround. MS Office by default installs a utility that preloads portions of MS Office exactly the same way the OOo Quickstarter does.

Yes, it is a workaround. Have you ever seen a gamer that has quickstart activated? It is true, though, that when 4Gb of RAM are no longer server exclusive loading a few megs for launching an app faster is an affordable luxury.

I'd discuss it for longer, but I am currently on my University working. And no, I'm not joking.

qamelian
November 19th, 2006, 08:41 PM
Yes, it is a workaround. Have you ever seen a gamer that has quickstart activated? It is true, though, that when 4Gb of RAM are no longer server exclusive loading a few megs for launching an app faster is an affordable luxury.

I'd discuss it for longer, but I am currently on my University working. And no, I'm not joking.
That doesn't change the fact that MS Office does the exact same thing. If you disable the tool that preloads parts of MS Office, it becomes as slow or even slower than OpenOffice to start.

Miguel
November 19th, 2006, 08:46 PM
Just one sentence before I write one more paragraph and have dinner:

"The goal of OpenOffice.org should not be copying MS Office (for better AND worse). The goal of OpenOffice.org should be to create a feature complete, usable and as lightweight as possible office suite"

namah
November 19th, 2006, 08:52 PM
KWord (part of KOffice) can import and edit PDFs.

Dang, I didn't know that. Now that is a handy feature :)

Kernel Sanders
November 19th, 2006, 09:24 PM
Are you serious? "can be made to save to PDF's easily too"?

http://www.pdfforge.org/products/pdfcreator Absolutely magical program!

OpenOffice saves to PDFs by default. It also supports more formats than MS Office does, including .doc and .xls.

If someone is going to send you an office document that they are working on, 99% of the time they are sending a .doc or .xls file etc... since MS Office uses these, you can guarentee that the files that you are sending/recieving are correctly formatted.

OOO officially supports these formats, but in my experience with the latest version, its buggy as hell. My .doc CV looked a mess, and cleaning it up and saving it made it look a mess when re-opened in Office 2003.

John :)

Miguel
November 19th, 2006, 10:42 PM
Since MS Office uses these, you can guarentee that the files that you are sending/recieving are correctly formatted.

This one made my night :mrgreen:. There is a reason why LaTeX uses integers instead of floats: the result is the same in every machine. MS Office docs don't. They have an issue where different default template.dot and different screen dpi result in different formatting. At least until Office 2000.

blastus
November 19th, 2006, 11:08 PM
MS Office by a country mile. It looks better, its faster, it has more features, and it uses .doc .xls etc, which is the industry standard, and can be made to save to PDF's easily too.

Open Office is free, thats about it :/ It also has poor support for .doc and .xls etc..

If people are too ignorant not to realize or care that Microsoft Office file formats lock them into Microsoft Office because they are closed, then they deserve to be locked into the product. If they refuse to understand why there is not and will never be any products on the market that can read/write those formats with *100%* compatibility then they can continue using Microsoft Office indefinitely. They deserve to pay the exorbitant price for the product for being so ignorant.

For years, Microsoft has dishonestly used the same old tired argument that so-and-so office product doesn't support MS-Office file formats as well as their product does. Yes OpenOffice doesn't support the formats as well as MS-Office does, but if you are going to use that argument you should at least be honest to state why it is impossible for the product to actually do so. :rolleyes: It is impossible for anyone to support those formats because they are owned and controlled by Microsoft and their specifications are not published so no-one but Microsoft can possibly understand them.

Besides, the OpenDocument revolution is here and it is here to stay. Microsoft's proprietary file formats including their new *Open* XML (which is anything but open), will eventually become irrelevant to people who understand the importance of using open file formats for universal document archival, data exchange, etc... As more and more people understand these issues the Microsoft Office file formats will become relics of an era of office software vendor lockin and ignorance.

shining
November 19th, 2006, 11:12 PM
As more and more people understand these issues the Microsoft Office file formats will become relics of an era of office software vendor lockin and ignorance.

At least, we all hope so.

.t.
November 19th, 2006, 11:16 PM
Macs have native support for PDF.

JAPrufrock
November 20th, 2006, 12:46 AM
OOffice satisfies most of my needs, and I use it most of the time, mainly because I'm using Ubuntu most of the time. However, the combination of using Access with Excel, linked by Visual Basic, is a powerful tool that I haven't been able to duplicate in OOffice. For instance I wrote a sea turtle population dynamics model with VBA and exported the data into Excel, and then graphed the data over time. Blew me away.

zgornel
November 20th, 2006, 02:17 PM
If people are too ignorant not to realize or care that Microsoft Office file formats lock them into Microsoft Office because they are closed, then they deserve to be locked into the product. If they refuse to understand why there is not and will never be any products on the market that can read/write those formats with *100%* compatibility then they can continue using Microsoft Office indefinitely. They deserve to pay the exorbitant price for the product for being so ignorant.

For years, Microsoft has dishonestly used the same old tired argument that so-and-so office product doesn't support MS-Office file formats as well as their product does. Yes OpenOffice doesn't support the formats as well as MS-Office does, but if you are going to use that argument you should at least be honest to state why it is impossible for the product to actually do so. :rolleyes: It is impossible for anyone to support those formats because they are owned and controlled by Microsoft and their specifications are not published so no-one but Microsoft can possibly understand them.

Besides, the OpenDocument revolution is here and it is here to stay. Microsoft's proprietary file formats including their new *Open* XML (which is anything but open), will eventually become irrelevant to people who understand the importance of using open file formats for universal document archival, data exchange, etc... As more and more people understand these issues the Microsoft Office file formats will become relics of an era of office software vendor lockin and ignorance. From an ethical point of view, I totally agree. Still, MS > OO (IMHO) but things should change in a few years time.

terminatorkobold
November 20th, 2006, 10:14 PM
I wrote my diploma work on MS Office and my phD thesis on OOWriter (chemistry).

Two things made me drop MS Office. The first was that it is almost impossible to work with MS Office in a multi-OS envireonement. I had a PC and my tutor a MAC. The formatting would get lost everytime when we transferred a Word file from one computer to the other. Besides every special characters would get replaced by squares when migrating.(I wrote in french and that is a lot of è,é or ù who would get converted)
The second thing was that I found MS Office to be unstable with long documents. After 50 images rich pages, the images would start to move randomly in the pages everytime the document was opened and the styles sometimes acted strangly, changing from one page to the next without reasons.

A few things made me stay with OOWriter.
First the Litterature database. I found it to be extremely practical, even better than MS Office with EndNotes, which is a plugin that has to be bought separately.
Second the pages styles, which enabled me to have a nice varied layout for my thesis without having to use a master document.
Abd finally the PDF utillity, I loved it and never had a problem with it.

I found Open Offiche quite enough to write my phD Thesis and everything else I had to do since then. :-)

insane_alien
November 20th, 2006, 10:53 PM
is it just me or does OOo have MUCH smaller file sizes than MSO?

my lab report in OOo is 823kb
in MSO .doc its 2.3MB

completely identical in content and formatting. no pictures or anything. i know which i'd use if i needed to store a lot of docs

Xzallion
November 20th, 2006, 11:59 PM
OpenOffice does not have a grammar checker. MS Office does.

There is a grammar checker thing thats a plug-in for OOo. It is not the greatest but its a start. http://www.danielnaber.de/languagetool/

Koori23
November 21st, 2006, 12:32 AM
Business--MS Office.
Schools--OpenOffice.
Home users--OpenOffice.

That's my verdict. For business, I'm thinking particularly of Excel--Macros, Pivot Tables, etc. But for schools and for home users, OpenOffice offers just about everything teachers and "regular" folk need.

OO.Org does 90% of the things I need an Office Suite to do.. The 10% I have issues with are form filtering which I use exclusively. Now, I get the error "too many expressions" when I open my famed excel spreadsheet. To be totally honest, MS Office is the best thing Microsoft has going for it, bar none.

Koori23
November 21st, 2006, 12:35 AM
I wrote my diploma work on MS Office and my phD thesis on OOWriter (chemistry).

Two things made me drop MS Office. The first was that it is almost impossible to work with MS Office in a multi-OS envireonement. I had a PC and my tutor a MAC. The formatting would get lost everytime when we transferred a Word file from one computer to the other. Besides every special characters would get replaced by squares when migrating.(I wrote in french and that is a lot of è,é or ù who would get converted)
The second thing was that I found MS Office to be unstable with long documents. After 50 images rich pages, the images would start to move randomly in the pages everytime the document was opened and the styles sometimes acted strangly, changing from one page to the next without reasons.

A few things made me stay with OOWriter.
First the Litterature database. I found it to be extremely practical, even better than MS Office with EndNotes, which is a plugin that has to be bought separately.
Second the pages styles, which enabled me to have a nice varied layout for my thesis without having to use a master document.
Abd finally the PDF utillity, I loved it and never had a problem with it.

I found Open Offiche quite enough to write my phD Thesis and everything else I had to do since then. :-)

PhD?? Congrats bud. I admire that, I couldn't stick it out that long in College. Just out of curiousity.. What is the basis of your thesis?

lori.ann
November 21st, 2006, 07:43 PM
Also MS office can create pdf's, but you need to download a plug-in. Ive got it with mine although it is a little buggy. If you try saving large files as pdf it crashes.

I have a plug-in to make MS office create pdf's as well, but I still consider OpenOffice far superior (and I've only been using it a few days!)... my pdf generator is also "a little buggy," it also gives me popup ads in order to run it for free, and though it doesn't crash with larger files it does create blank pdf files once every so often.

56phil
November 21st, 2006, 07:49 PM
Open Office fills my modest needs very nicely. Why would I want to spend an arm and a leg for software that is, perhaps, marginally better. Microsoft has enough of my money. No more I say.

Henry Rayker
November 21st, 2006, 07:55 PM
Everything I do, I use OpenOffice. I used to use MSOffice on my Windows box and OO on my Linux laptop/at work. The straw that broke the camel's back was when Excel kept screwing with my images. I was compiling a huge report for work and had a large number of images. After about the 255th line, they would no longer save. If I saved an image below that line, they would crunch up to the 255th line and collapse onto it. Pain in the @$$!

I haven't found a single thing that behaves differently or incorrectly. This is based on my experiences, as well as a couple of people around me with experience with both.

maagimies
November 21st, 2006, 08:30 PM
I find both Ms Office and Openoffice to be usable, although I prefer Ms Office. As I need just word processing, I use Abiword, which loads under a second without preloading ;)

darkghost
November 21st, 2006, 09:36 PM
Well, let me also add my experience.

OOffice vs Writer: i mainly write letters and faxes. OOwriter is very ok for this usage, although in Windows it looks nicer (font rendering)

OOcalc vs Excel : working in finance i use excel a lot. OOcalc can't just be used for. There are several financial macros for finance in excel, nothing ready in oowriter. I learned in the past VBA, and i don't have much time to learn basic for calc. Support for VBA in OOCalc is still rudimentary.

Impress Vs PPoint : impress it's ok, but powerpoint is better...

Sooo to make a long story short, i could live with Ooffice except for the excel stuff. There I can't find any viable alternative opensource (and running in linux)

Gargamella
November 21st, 2006, 09:41 PM
as linux user I started using it lately and I am really surprised and satisfied

dvarsam
November 23rd, 2006, 08:37 PM
I am very happy with Open Office!

On a Linux OS, previous versions, Open Office used to crash very frequently (3-4 times per day)!

And I am talking about its Word Processor.

This last version, v2.0.4, seems to be very stable!

I have not experienced, not a single crash!!!

Unfortunately, I desperately needed to use the graphics features of MS Excel...

And Open Office Org does NOT include any graphics (e.g. bar charts, line charts, etc etc)

So, I went & purchased MS Office 2003...

IF Open Office Org incorporates some graphics (e.g. bar charts, line charts, etc etc), I don't think I will ever need again the MS Office cousin...

Thanks.

qamelian
November 24th, 2006, 12:57 AM
Unfortunately, I desperately needed to use the graphics features of MS Excel...

And Open Office Org does NOT include any graphics (e.g. bar charts, line charts, etc etc)

So, I went & purchased MS Office 2003...

IF Open Office Org incorporates some graphics (e.g. bar charts, line charts, etc etc), I don't think I will ever need again the MS Office cousin...

Thanks.

Err...it already does. I use the charting features in Calc all the time. Although my employer supplies Office 2003, I do most of my work in OOo including preparing charts and graphs in Calc to track trends in my department. Personally, I have always found OOo to be extremely stable in all it's components.

dbbolton
November 24th, 2006, 01:33 AM
i'd like to cast my vote for OOo

Lord Illidan
November 24th, 2006, 07:48 PM
It does have charts

Insert -> Chart.

Beamerboy
November 24th, 2006, 07:56 PM
In MS Office they have Access, that in my opinion has no rival app in Linux. OpenOffice has a database app but lacks the power of Access. Regarding the other Office apps, OpenOffice is in my opinion a very good choice. It depends of your needs, but in general not everybody writes large novels or complex essays and reports. So, OpenOffice fits the general audience.
I can't believe I just saw the words "power" and "Access" (referring to MS Access) in the same sentence. I want what you are smoking.

Paladine

Lord Illidan
November 24th, 2006, 08:04 PM
I can't believe I just saw the words "power" and "Access" (referring to MS Access) in the same sentence. I want what you are smoking.

Paladine

Let's stop flaming other applications please. Access can be very good for some people, and it can bad for others.

Beamerboy
November 24th, 2006, 08:06 PM
It burns your skin? Right, show people everywhere that we are crazy linux zealots who don't look any further than our noses. :^o

MS Office beats Open Office in speed, at least on my computer. What's interesting is that Open Office is faster on Windows than on Linux, with quickstart enabled on both OSes. On Windows, it is comparable to MS Office, on Linux, it lags behind, even when there aren't a lot of apps open.

In terms of features, MS Office wins again. Powerpoint is easier to use than Impress, Access is better than Base, and Excel is the king. Word and Write are comparable, though Write is slower.

Some things are very slow to do with Open Office. For example, making a page background in Impress. You have to do triple the steps it would take you in MS Office.

Also, MS Office looks better than Open Office for some reason. In Gnome, Open Office doesn't look bad. But the KDE icons of Open Office suck big time. Also, the GUI is slow, and doesn't blend in with the environment widgets, unlike Abiword. Office 2007 beats the **** out of Open Office in design, although it is now as slow as it. Yet, the layperson likes eyecandy.

That said..yes, MS Office is more expensive. But in the days of warez and so on, that is not such a factor. Although everyone has MS Office, it doesn't mean that everyone paid for it.

That said...I use Open Office at home, because I love free software. And I have persuaded, or forced :cool: my two sisters to use it. And they like it, so far.
I don't have MS Office. So clearly your assertion that everyone does, is incorrect.

Paladine

aysiu
November 24th, 2006, 08:16 PM
I don't have MS Office. So clearly your assertion that everyone does, is incorrect.

Paladine
Lord Illidan may have been exaggerating, but the point still remains that many more people (almost everyone) have MS Office than have OpenOffice.

Beamerboy
November 24th, 2006, 08:30 PM
One thing that shocks me about this discussion is the amount of people who claim to be using MS Office or OOo for academic papers etc. Neither should be used for academic or research papers. The standard for these types of documents is LaTeX as it is for works intended to be published as books or in journals.

I am suprised that the person who did his PhD in OOo actually had it accepted, I would be expected to use LaTeX for my thesis, whether I wanted to or not.

Other than that, there are so many arguments to present for both sides of the debate, it is really pointless exploring them. It horses for courses.

Paladine

sicofante
November 24th, 2006, 10:18 PM
I still don't use Ubuntu everyday and one of the reasons is OpenOffice.org. I find OOo terribly buggy. I understand it's OK for home users, but it's risky, at least, for businesses. For home users I find it more appropriate to use other tools like Abiword and Gnumeric or Koffice. They are much lighter and offer good enough features. So I don't quite find a place for OOo...

I've been using it for the last six months, or maybe I should say "forcing myself to use it". I'm trying hard to move away from MS (and moving my customers along too), but it's difficult. It's not about features, by the way, but bugs. Bugs in OOo are serious (I'm not sure there are the same in Windows and Linux versions). I mean, sometimes there are workarounds, sometimes not. The OOo team doesn't fix them fast enough. On the other hand, MS development team is making a great job on MS Office.

Just my two cents.

jordilin
November 25th, 2006, 07:36 PM
I can't believe I just saw the words "power" and "Access" (referring to MS Access) in the same sentence. I want what you are smoking.

Paladine

Look, I am a big fan of Linux but we must be sincere, there's no such an app like Access in Linux. Well, yes, there is OpenOffice Base, but it's not as powerful as Access, mainly because Access has been out for a long time and Base is in its infancy. OpenOffice Writer on the other hand is very good. There are other products such as Visual Studio for .NET and C# that there is no equivalence in Linux. Well, there is MonoDevelop but it has no debugger, so... quite difficult to develop Mono Apps (.NET in Linux) with such a tool. This is a reality and we must be objective. Again, this is my personal opinion. Ah, and I don't smoke :-({|=

Beamerboy
November 25th, 2006, 08:02 PM
I used to teach Access and it is absolutely dreadful as well as deprecated. Anyone who is insistant on using MS products should be using SQLServer, Access is not by any means a good product and Microsoft themselves have basically disinherited it over SQLServer.

So no my comment was not bashing Access for the sake of it, my comment was based on years of experience and common sense. It is crap. If you can't handle that analysis so be it, but I certainly have no intention of doing a 180 on my standpoint.

As for no equivalents for .net etc. of course there are. .Net etc are just frameworks with APIs, there are dozens of frameworks for linux (in fact most of them are cross platform like JDK etc.) so again, I feel that comment is unfounded and false.

Paladine

cantormath
November 25th, 2006, 08:05 PM
I don't have MS Office. So clearly your assertion that everyone does, is incorrect.

Paladine

I too am not running Microsoft office. Its a terrible program.

56phil
November 25th, 2006, 08:55 PM
MSO sits in my desk drawer, just waiting to get back on my system. OOo serves all my needs very well. So, MSO may be stuck in my desk drawer for a long time.

sicofante
November 25th, 2006, 09:07 PM
I too am not running Microsoft office. Its a terrible program.
I understand you don't use OOo either then? It's just trying to copy every aspect of MS Office (including flaws and design mistakes)...

Which takes me to the next obvious issue: it seems to me the Linux applications world is slowly quitting imitation and embracing inovation. OOo should stop trying to emulate MS Office (reading MS Office documents is a mere necessity, copying MS Office design is a huge mistake). As a matter of fact, they better do... MS Office 2007 is so different that it would took a full rewrite of OOo to imitate it.

I once read about another office suite that had made a great job on linking different document types in one. Embedding a spreadsheet inside a text document AND properly keeping updates is something not MS Office nor OOo do well at all. I just can't remember the name now, but THAT is inovation.

Regarding MS Access, I agree that is not a fortunate program. OOo Base is not an exact replica of it (as Writer and Calc are indeed replicas of Word and Excel) so it has some potential in it, but it behaves as alpha software and it's been doing so for so many months now I just lost my hope. :(

jordilin
November 25th, 2006, 10:51 PM
I used to teach Access and it is absolutely dreadful as well as deprecated. Anyone who is insistant on using MS products should be using SQLServer, Access is not by any means a good product and Microsoft themselves have basically disinherited it over SQLServer.

So no my comment was not bashing Access for the sake of it, my comment was based on years of experience and common sense. It is crap. If you can't handle that analysis so be it, but I certainly have no intention of doing a 180 on my standpoint.

As for no equivalents for .net etc. of course there are. .Net etc are just frameworks with APIs, there are dozens of frameworks for linux (in fact most of them are cross platform like JDK etc.) so again, I feel that comment is unfounded and false.

Paladine

Yes, Mono is a .Net equivalent, but I'm talking about IDEs to develop .net (mono) apps. In any case, just talking about the Office programs, one thing must be clear: OpenOffice is good enough for everybody, even for companies. Paying so much for an Office program like the m$ one is not necessary.

sicofante
November 25th, 2006, 11:05 PM
OpenOffice is good enough for everybody, even for companies.
Companies must trust their software and OpenOffice has just too many bugs. I would agree that Writer is up to the task for any company, but so is almost every word processing software out there. OOo Base is completely out of the question, it simply can't be used for any purpose other than educational (and bug reporting to the authors...). OOo Calc is almost there, but still too buggy. I find myself reverting too many times to Excel. I've been having problems with printing, special characters and others that stopped me from doing the job. What if I had no Excel? I don't use presentation software, so I can't speak about Impress (or Powerpoint). Again, I can only speak for the Windows version. I still don't dare to use Ubuntu exclusively, and that's precisely because of OOo...

jordilin
November 25th, 2006, 11:21 PM
Companies must trust their software and OpenOffice has just too many bugs. I would agree that Writer is up to the task for any company, but so is almost every word processing software out there. OOo Base is completely out of the question, it simply can't be used for any purpose other than educational (and bug reporting to the authors...). OOo Calc is almost there, but still too buggy. I find myself reverting too many times to Excel. I've been having problems with printing, special characters and others that stopped me from doing the job. What if I had no Excel? I don't use presentation software, so I can't speak about Impress (or Powerpoint). Again, I can only speak for the Windows version. I still don't dare to use Ubuntu exclusively, and that's precisely because of OOo...

I run OpenOffice for windows without problems (although I mainly use Ubuntu Linux), and I can tell you of some companies and public administrations which already use OpenOffice as an alternative under m$ windows operating system, but I'm not gonna give names. The future is the Open Document Format, which is an standard already used by OpenOffice. OpenOffice is fully compliant of the open document and m$ office it is not.

petersjm
November 25th, 2006, 11:29 PM
Whilst I use OOo at home on my linux box, I find I save most of my docs in .doc format, simply so that I can access them at work with MS Office. I'll upload them to my webspace and download them at work. It simply saves a lot of hassle. And to be honest, if I could get MSO working in Linux under Wine (can't afford CrossOver at the minute) I'd happily use the copy I have.

Johnsie
November 26th, 2006, 12:01 AM
I think Open Office has got a little better since version 1 but they still have a lot of work to do to beat MS Office. Personally, I prefer abiword for working with documents than either of Word or OOWriter.


OO needs to have more people trained in their software. Most people learn MS in schools and colleges. If OO and Linux did that then people would be less afraid to try something they have already used.

SunnyRabbiera
November 26th, 2006, 12:11 AM
Both have thier advantages and disadvantages.
In truth I think MS office is Microsofts best product, its spreadsheet app and its spelling and grammar check are pretty good.
I think its presentation tool is very good too, very simple and stable.
Open Office is pretty close but I think there are things that are lacking in it:
OO's spreadsheet app is not that good in my opinion, its always crashing on me, OO also lacks a grammar check tool thus is the two main reasons why i still use my copy of MS office.
I also like Microsoft frontpage, sure it renders pages rather badly but its better then NVU or Open office's web page editors.
I am not saying hat OO is bad though but in some ways I like Microsoft office better.

ZuLuuuuuu
November 26th, 2006, 12:12 AM
I used to use MS Office until I started to use Linux a lot. Now I'm doing all the documents via Open Office and it has the features I need. But it crashes very frequently. Experiencing crashes (especially on 2.0.4) made me try different office solutions. I'm now searching an alternative. MS Office is certainly not the alternative :D



This last version, v2.0.4, seems to be very stable!

I have not experienced, not a single crash!!!

I don't know what is the problem but when I copy a text and then paste it to other application (for example Gaim) it crashes certainly. Am I only one to experience this problem?

Dual Cortex
November 26th, 2006, 12:13 AM
I used to use MS Office until I started to use Linux a lot. Now I'm doing all the documents via Open Office and it has the features I need. But experiencing crashes (especially on 2.0.4) made me try different office solutions. I'm now searching an alternative. MS Office is certainly not the alternative :D


I don't know what is the problem but when I copy a text and then paste it to other application (for example Gaim) it crashes certainly. Am I only one to experience this problem?


No, you're not. Same thing happens to me. Though I haven't done much research on the bug yet.

SunnyRabbiera
November 26th, 2006, 12:25 AM
Yeh the bug is here too.
There are a number of bugs in OO that just make me mad, in this case I will have to give MS a vote for stability in office.
I have a nuber of stability problems here with OO, hardly any with MSO.
Not saying that MSO is perfect though, its insecure, its slow and its microsoft :P
But as i said I will honestly say that Office is MS's best product.

sicofante
November 26th, 2006, 01:12 AM
I run OpenOffice for windows without problems (although I mainly use Ubuntu Linux), and I can tell you of some companies and public administrations which already use OpenOffice as an alternative under m$ windows operating system, but I'm not gonna give names.
Don't take my word: just read the many posts here talking about crashes and visit the OOo forums... Maybe the companies you're talking about don't need or use Calc or Base, or they do very simple things with them. Or maybe these companies don't bother having their software crashing or simply failing to do certain things. But it's a fact that OOo is buggy and it's risky to use it in business. I would love to recommend OOo to my customers. I don't sell Microsoft products, I sell consulting, and it would only benefit me if I could give my customers less expensive products, let alone sell them my own support. It's just irresponsible to recommend OOo for business today, unless you know your customer won't be trying to do other than word processing and very basic "crash-proof" spreadsheet operations.


The future is the Open Document Format, which is an standard already used by OpenOffice. OpenOffice is fully compliant of the open document and m$ office it is not.That's another interesting one. I agree that ODF is good because it's a standard, but isn't it weird that only OOo uses it natively? Other open source office suites and word processors don't do it. Instead of accusing Microsoft of not supporting a standard (which by the way it does indirectly (http://sourceforge.net/projects/odf-converter)), wouldn't it be more reasonable to ask every open source developer to adhere to that standard first?

jordilin
November 26th, 2006, 01:27 PM
That's another interesting one. I agree that ODF is good because it's a standard, but isn't it weird that only OOo uses it natively? Other open source office suites and word processors don't do it. Instead of accusing Microsoft of not supporting a standard (which by the way it does indirectly (http://sourceforge.net/projects/odf-converter)), wouldn't it be more reasonable to ask every open source developer to adhere to that standard first?

koffice does support the open document format,
http://www.koffice.org/kword/

Footissimo
November 26th, 2006, 01:36 PM
As does Abiword and Gnumeric.

jordilin
November 26th, 2006, 01:48 PM
Don't take my word: just read the many posts here talking about crashes and visit the OOo forums... Maybe the companies you're talking about don't need or use Calc or Base, or they do very simple things with them. Or maybe these companies don't bother having their software crashing or simply failing to do certain things. But it's a fact that OOo is buggy and it's risky to use it in business. I would love to recommend OOo to my customers. I don't sell Microsoft products, I sell consulting, and it would only benefit me if I could give my customers less expensive products, let alone sell them my own support. It's just irresponsible to recommend OOo for business today, unless you know your customer won't be trying to do other than word processing and very basic "crash-proof" spreadsheet operations.


As in many things in life, if you have money to burn and you are betting your house, then go for m$ Office, at least you'll have someone (m$) to blame if sth goes wrong.

SunnyRabbiera
November 26th, 2006, 08:06 PM
I wouldnt go that far as to say something like that, for a Microsoft product Office is well worth its price.
Its pretty well featured, office gives a lot for its money.
Its one of the few MS products I personally trust.

Klaidas
November 26th, 2006, 08:11 PM
Work — MS Office
Home — MS Office
On Ubuntu — gedit :D

sicofante
November 26th, 2006, 08:14 PM
It's nice to know Koffice, Abiword and Gnumeric support ODF (I personally dislike the KDE world, but that's just my particular taste). I had heard many times that their support wasn't very good, but if that has changed it's great news.

Beamerboy
November 26th, 2006, 08:16 PM
I wouldnt go that far as to say something like that, for a Microsoft product Office is well worth its price.
Its pretty well featured, office gives a lot for its money.
Its one of the few MS products I personally trust.
Trust??? You realise you are talking about a product that has been responsible for more security problems than any other software product on the market? The amount of internet traffic that has been wasted by viruses propegated through MS Outlook go beyond insane.

The amount of money Outlook has cost corporations trying to counter these viruses again goes beyond insane (billions).

How many cases of Identity Theft do you think have happened as a result of Viruses and Trojans through Outlook (I don't even want to know the answer to that one for fear of the reality being just so high).

Trust you say??? I wouldn't trust MS Office as far as I could throw Redmond HQ. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Paladine

sicofante
November 26th, 2006, 08:28 PM
You're mixing things and that's not fair nor nice. Windows security issues are one thing and reliability of office suites is another. I thought we were discussing the latter.

You should be careful with your passions. Rants like this do a very good job for Microsoft and against open source software.

Beamerboy
November 26th, 2006, 08:46 PM
You're mixing things and that's not fair nor nice. Windows security issues are one thing and reliability of office suites is another. I thought we were discussing the latter.

You should be careful with your passions. Rants like this do a very good job for Microsoft and against open source software.
Security flaws in Outlook are not windows issues they are Outlook issues hence why the security updates are released as Outlook patches not windows patches. If you want me to play gentle, you are going to be disappointed.

Paladine

sicofante
November 26th, 2006, 09:01 PM
As does Abiword and Gnumeric.

This site suggests this is not quite true:

http://opendocumentfellowship.org/applications

:(

sicofante
November 26th, 2006, 09:02 PM
If you want me to play gentle, you are going to be disappointed.
I guess that explains it all...

SunnyRabbiera
November 26th, 2006, 10:03 PM
Trust??? You realise you are talking about a product that has been responsible for more security problems than any other software product on the market? The amount of internet traffic that has been wasted by viruses propegated through MS Outlook go beyond insane.

The amount of money Outlook has cost corporations trying to counter these viruses again goes beyond insane (billions).

How many cases of Identity Theft do you think have happened as a result of Viruses and Trojans through Outlook (I don't even want to know the answer to that one for fear of the reality being just so high).

Trust you say??? I wouldn't trust MS Office as far as I could throw Redmond HQ. Wake up and smell the coffee.

Paladine

Well I will concur outlook is terrible, but the rest of it is fine with me.
If Office didnt have outlook it would be a lot better in terms of security.
But the thing is that I trust MS Office in terms of stability more then OO as OO has a number of bugs I really dislike.
I would rather use MS offices spreadsheets and presentation tools then OO's as OO's seem flawed to me...
No product is perfect though, Office has tons of security issues, but its one of Microsofts more reliable prodicts to me.
If OO's spreadsheet and presentation tool was better you bet I would use it more in terms of my home office.
actually I would rather use KOffices spreadsheet tool then open offices, or even MS offices but as KDE isnt that easy to run on my MS machine the choice is more limited...
I wish they would export Koffice to windows though

bastiegast
November 26th, 2006, 10:29 PM
No matter what anyone's saying but, for me, OpenOffice DOES feel (alot) slower than MS Office. Speaking of menu's popping up slowlier, scrolling a bit more choppy and more small things.
Not that it is a problem for me though, my computer is fast enough. But still i think its just not fair to say OpenOffice is as fast as MS Office.

addicted68098
November 26th, 2006, 10:33 PM
They are both about the same to me, and Open Office seems like a slower startup while MS Office seems like it needs alot more to run.

FyreBrand
November 26th, 2006, 10:58 PM
One thing that shocks me about this discussion is the amount of people who claim to be using MS Office or OOo for academic papers etc. Neither should be used for academic or research papers. The standard for these types of documents is LaTeX as it is for works intended to be published as books or in journals.

I am suprised that the person who did his PhD in OOo actually had it accepted, I would be expected to use LaTeX for my thesis, whether I wanted to or not.

Other than that, there are so many arguments to present for both sides of the debate, it is really pointless exploring them. It horses for courses.

PaladineOpen Office 2.0.4 has support for direct export to LaTeX. I find the document support for OOWriter to be one of it's best features. It also has a modest equation editor so I can do my proof writing in it.

I can import instructors' power point lectures easily and convert them with a little formatting work. The same goes true when I move a ppt from one machine to another in MS Office.

The main thing lacking from OO suite is the type of power that VBA lends to MS Office. I don't think OO should incorporate VBA support, but I do think that type of functionality and power should be looked at for future implementation.

edit: Interestingly enough I found this link concerning VBA macro support for OO. I guess it's there and I didn't even know it. Linux dot com OO article (http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/11/08/1726205).

jordilin
November 27th, 2006, 08:37 AM
They are both about the same to me, and Open Office seems like a slower startup while MS Office seems like it needs alot more to run.

you must preload the openoffice in memory. Then it will start up very quickly like the m$ office.

RAV TUX
November 27th, 2006, 08:46 AM
I prefer Koffice

temcat
November 28th, 2006, 12:12 AM
I work as a technical translator, so word processing is my bread and butter. I've tried OOo many times and did some simple jobs in it. I've even filed issues (most of my issues from 2001 aren't fixed BTW). What I can say is that while OOo may be sufficient for about 70% of folks, it is nowhere near Word 2000 as far as efficiency or the simplest forms of collaboration go. It also has some pretty basic flaws in the things that even Abiword has right.

Here's an incomplete list of deficiencies that matter for me:

http://osnews.com/permalink.php?news_id=15925&comment_id=164603

In addition to these issues:

* The macro language is a mess. Maybe VBA is somehow flawed, but anyway it is fairly straightforward, and documentation is excellent, at least for simple tasks. But look at what is spewed by the OOo's macro recorder. Ouch.

* I still cannot easily assign a hotkey to an arbitrary character.

* I still cannot assign an arbitrary hotkey to a function - the choice is limited, and I have to find the hotkey first.

* I simply can't predict whether or not a specific Autocorrect item entered will work for me. I have this on multiple versions and platforms.

* Whoever decided that bullets and numbering somehow aren't part of para formatting must be killed. Try "Clear formatting" only to discover that bullets and number will remain.

So it's not all shiny in the OOo world.

aysiu
November 28th, 2006, 12:49 AM
My take on the whole OpenOffice v. MS Office issue:

I'm used to MS Office and using intermediate (but not advanced) functions in Word and particularly in Excel. When I use OpenOffice, I'm a little disoriented and can't be bothered to figure out the intermediate functions there. For example, I don't know an easy way to change a Pivot Table to a Pivot Chart in Calc, and I don't know an easy way to change text to title case or sentence case in Write.

On the other hand, when I want to create PDFs out of text documents, I always turn to OpenOffice.

It all works out just fine for me because I use MS Office in Windows at work most of the time and OpenOffice in Windows at work some of the time. At home, I use OpenOffice in Ubuntu exclusively, and my "office" needs aren't that sophisticated at home, really, so I don't mind.

As they stand right now, I would recommend businesses who use MS Office stay with MS Office, and home users who don't know what a Macro is shouldn't waste their money--OpenOffice will probably more than likely suit their needs.

unlokia
December 3rd, 2006, 09:11 AM
Hey guys!. I just installed the brand new and shiny MICROSOFT OFFICE 2007, on my XP box.

Oh wow!!.

I just have this to say:

If you were used to using Office 2003, then you will wonder what on EARTH happened, but in a good way I think! :D.

OpenOffice.org... the interface is changing guys... time to innovate and catch up a bit!.
However, to OpenOffice's advantage, I say this;

Program opening times on Win XP:

FROM CLICK TO OPEN
==================

OpenOffice = 1 second
Ms Office 2007 = 2 seconds

Just a small point!

slimdog360
December 3rd, 2006, 09:13 AM
owww shiny

Lord Illidan
December 3rd, 2006, 09:14 AM
Is there anything substantially different other than the interface?

Polygon
December 3rd, 2006, 09:14 AM
when you think about it, all they really added was a shiny new interface. On the first day i used open office i could find whatever i needed, and anything i didnt know how to find it usually took one minute using help to find it.

Open office should concentrate more on features and stuff before they work on a shiny new user interface.

nalmeth
December 3rd, 2006, 09:15 AM
Are you saying it needs to innovate, or rather emulate Office 2007?

atoponce
December 3rd, 2006, 09:18 AM
I disagree. I don't care about flashy UIs or buzzy new features. I want something that works, and that works well. Something that is stable, reliable and secure. On top of that, I want an office suite that saves to a Open Format by default (which I think Office 2007 finally does, albeit under different licensing).

Looking at Office 2007, it looks like there is going to be a bit of training in the corporate sector to get employees used to the new "ribbon". And with the various licensing that comes with new Microsoft software, Vista included, I'm glad that I'm using OpenOffice.org.

I hope OpenOffice.org doesn't turn into another lemming.

aysiu
December 3rd, 2006, 09:20 AM
OpenOffice is an excellent application for a lot of home users who are now paying for MS Office.

And, yes, they're not all pirating MS Office. I know a lot of people who are honest citizens paying literally hundreds of dollars for basic word processing abilities OpenOffice could easily suit.

In fact, I was one of those people for years. I had no idea OpenOffice existed until I started using Linux.

adamkane
December 3rd, 2006, 09:21 AM
Office will never be open.

They came up with OpenOffice for a reason.

Proprietary closed standards. No thanks.

unlokia
December 3rd, 2006, 09:23 AM
Are you saying it needs to innovate, or rather emulate Office 2007?

I'm saying don't *copy* Office 2007, but take some ideas and inspiration from the VERY VERY intuitive interface. I have hardly ever used Office 2003, due to the need to dig deep below the gui, to find what I actually needed. With 2007, I was using it like a pro within ten mins, and I promise you I am not exaggerating one bit!.

The problem with OO is that they have followed the MS trend almost to the letter, GUI/functionality wise, and now MS have turned their software corner, and evolved this into a VERY intuitive and easy to use product, then OO still looks like it is stuck back in 1997, Sorry to say it, but if you run a windows box, and get the chance to install Office 2007, do so - you will see what I am getting at.

It is time for OO to break out of the "Windows 98" theme and icons, and do something radical in terms of usability and gui sweetness. Grey is boring, and noone wants to sit inside a GUI all day, that looks like a wet weekend!!.

Lord Illidan
December 3rd, 2006, 09:23 AM
Let's not flame eachother too much.

What I'd like is to see OpenOffice get a boost in performance, more userfriendly features, and yes, a slicker interface, and one which is more in line with the desktop you are working in, either Gnome or KDE (or GTK and QT widgets).

unlokia
December 3rd, 2006, 09:28 AM
Ahhh *someone* who can see that easy to use is good. I have a younger sister who uses MS products day in day out at school, and HAS tried OO, but said she knows her way round "Office" and uses that now instead.

Usability AND stability AND innovation and gui sweetness, but not OVER sweet and clumsy.

I think MS have done something right with Office 2007, and some people are going to have to swallow that fact!. I am NO fanboy, I sit on the preverbial 'fence', but I know that to get work done and done fast and efficiently, is what the majority want to do!!.

One thing I love about the new product, is the Live preview that you get when you hover your mouse over some formatting option you are choosing, or colour/font/etc.. choices. It is LIVE PREVIEW folks, and it shows you what the document will look like, should you choose that particular option/format. :D

atoponce
December 3rd, 2006, 09:32 AM
I'll admit that the reason my wife uses Microsoft Office over OpenOffice.org is because is looks "prettier". However, if given the choice to use software that is free (in both senses of the the term) or a fancy interface, I would put my money that 9:1, people will choose free.

Lord Illidan
December 3rd, 2006, 09:32 AM
I think MS have done something right with Office 2007, and some people are going to have to swallow that fact!. I am NO fanboy, I sit on the preverbial 'fence', but I know that to get work done and done fast and efficiently, is what the majority want to do!!.

I agree with you there, and I also want OO to have a better interface and more userfriendly. But we don't have the unlimited resources that MS has.

unlokia
December 3rd, 2006, 09:34 AM
I'll admit that the reason my wife uses Microsoft Office over OpenOffice.org is because is looks "prettier". However, if given the choice to use software that is free (in both senses of the the term) or a fancy interface, I would put my money that 9:1, people will choose free.

Just because we are open source, doesn't mean that the products must look ugly and un-intuitive!. Come on OO, as I said before...

It doesn't mean there has to be a choice between the two... pretty AND free... look at KDE/Enlightenment
CATCH UP!!

aysiu
December 3rd, 2006, 09:35 AM
Ahhh *someone* who can see that easy to use is good. I have a younger sister who uses MS products day in day out at school, and HAS tried OO, but said she knows her way round "Office" and uses that now instead.

...

I think MS have done something right with Office 2007, and some people are going to have to swallow that fact!. I am NO fanboy, I sit on the preverbial 'fence', but I know that to get work done and done fast and efficiently, is what the majority want to do!!. Usability and familiarity are not the same thing.

I, too, am more efficient with MS Office, but that's because--like your sister--I'm more familiar with it. I haven't found anything less intuitive about OpenOffice's interface, but I have trouble finding things because I'm used to finding them in other places (or called by other names) in MS Office.

For example, in Excel, I go to Data > Pivot Tables to get a... pivot table. In Calc, I thought I would be looking for Pivot Tables, but it was in Data > DataPilot.

Likewise, to change page attributes, I'm used to going to File > Page Setup instead of Format > Page.

File > Page Setup isn't any more intuitive than Format > Page. In fact, you could easily argue Format > Page makes more sense, since the page isn't the file... it's just part of the file, like a paragraph, or a line, or a word. But I looked under File first... because that's what I was used to in Word.

That isn't to say OpenOffice couldn't be improved. It could certainly do with some more features (for example, I can't change case to Sentence Case or Title Case in Write... the only options are Uppercase and Lowercase), but I don't see what's so unintuitive or unusable about it.

By the way, I've merged this with the other discussions about OpenOffice v. MS Office

newbie2
December 3rd, 2006, 09:49 AM
Is there anything substantially different other than the interface?
the price (http://uk.theinquirer.net/?article=35999) :p

unlokia
December 3rd, 2006, 10:35 AM
OO gui is stuck in the past.... TRY office 2007, and THEN you can give a clear and PROPER opinion, if you have not already. Reading reviews is nothing as good as hands-on usage!.

Off to computer fair now :D :D

See ya all later - have a great day!! :D

aysiu
December 3rd, 2006, 10:55 AM
OO gui is stuck in the past.... TRY office 2007, and THEN you can give a clear and PROPER opinion, if you have not already. Reading reviews is nothing as good as hands-on usage!.

Off to computer fair now :D :D

See ya all later - have a great day!! :D
Sorry, but it won't let me try Office 2007.

OpenOffice, fortunately, runs for free on all three majors platforms.

ade234uk
December 3rd, 2006, 11:17 AM
As much as I hate M$ you cant beat Outlook as an email client. I have tried all the alternatives but every one is missing something or other.

I also tried OO at work and could not get on with it due to one or two things that where missing.

I create pallet lists in excel and then save them as webpages. Its the most efficient and quickest way of doing my job.

This is fine in OO, you can do this. However I ran in to problems when I wanted to import the .htm back in to OO for further editing, it would not let me.

In excel if you have two worksheets open they sit in the same window. This is great if you need to copy + paste information between the two. You can zoom them down and see both sheets in one window.

In Open Office when I opened a new worksheet it opened in a new window. Trying to copy + paste between the two was hard work. It became confusing as I was used to excel.

The best thing Open Source developers can do is to make these applications look and feel like m$ products, then there is more chance people would use them. I know its copying but sometimes you have to do these things.

The amount of average users that put down an application either becuase the font is different, buttons and meanings are in a different places, the colour of the Interface is different, is enourmous.

As much as I hate to say it M$ has set the benchmark for Office products and OO does need to catch up in this area.

kvonb
December 3rd, 2006, 11:30 AM
I wonder how many people actually have a legal purchased copy of MS Office?

It's usually the ones who don't that rant on about "I'm going back to MS Office", and "OO is not good enough for me" etc'. If you paid the $400 price tag for MS Office, would you really be trying Open Office? It's not like you're going to get a refund or anything :rolleyes:. Do the Microsoft thing, pay your money and do as you're told!

I can't wait for Vista, once the software piracy thing gets fully underway we can sit back with a beer and listen to the piggies scream :twisted:.

I love the "locking your filesystem until you can prove you have a legal license", watch all the .doc and .xls files vanish into thin air!

hoagie
December 3rd, 2006, 12:54 PM
I am in love with Open Office, the only thing that I am missing and can't leave behind is Access. Even with the new database application featured in version 2, it's still way behind and buggy. I mean I try to create a form using the wizard and when I click finish it doesn't respond. So I keep windows with MS office in a small partition and wait for this bug to get fixed.

burek
December 3rd, 2006, 01:11 PM
For non professional things: yeah openoffice is well adapted but in companies; they use MS :
Hence; for work and professional activities, openoffice is absolutely not considered. Ms Office or latex way are of well known name.
In my field, after many years xp, I never heard about publishing with openoffice.
We just use : Ms Office or latex



You pay you have better quality.
Compare Gimp and Photoshop, ... Have you ever seen a Photo-store using Gimp ?
Of course not, they pay and have good software quality. Even with the photoshop 5 version for Mac, in the photo-shops are able to do enough for they work.

I just quote that s my experience around me and from folks activities.

Peyton
December 3rd, 2006, 08:43 PM
As a non-professional user, I just can't justify spending the money to purchase Office.

FyreBrand
December 4th, 2006, 01:40 AM
Sorry, but it won't let me try Office 2007.

OpenOffice, fortunately, runs for free on all three majors platforms.
Microsoft's "Office 2007 Demo" is really a web-based demo. You don't download anything and you must use IE to use it. Here is a reference link: eWeek article (http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,1982423,00.asp).

The author points out, "It's a very good demo, mind you. But still, it's a demo."

There is a series of fairly interesting and objective articles on the eWeek site. There are quite a few, along with some blog reviews, but they help provide an idea of where Office 2007 will be a good fit along with the costs (direct and indirect) associated with the upgrade.

They also provide some interesting and factual comparisons between OOo, Star Office, and MS Office.

It's interesting to note that Office 2007 will now come with PDF export capability. Star Office comes with direct export to Flash, while Office 2007 doesn't.



For non professional things: yeah openoffice is well adapted but in companies; they use MS :
Hence; for work and professional activities, openoffice is absolutely not considered. Ms Office or latex way are of well known name.
In my field, after many years xp, I never heard about publishing with openoffice.
We just use : Ms Office or latex



You pay you have better quality.
Compare Gimp and Photoshop, ... Have you ever seen a Photo-store using Gimp ?
Of course not, they pay and have good software quality. Even with the photoshop 5 version for Mac, in the photo-shops are able to do enough for they work.

I just quote that s my experience around me and from folks activities.Using the GIMP vs Photoshop is a fallacy argument since the GIMP has nothing to do with OOo vs. MS Office. Nothing about the quality or usage of the GIMP has anything to do with OOo. You could make a similar type of fallacy argument in the other hand using Apache web server vs. proprietary server X. Apache web server is widely found in enterprise web deployment. So OOo must be better since it too is open source. This too is a fallacy and has nothing to do with OOo.

Even though you don't discuss what technical field you're talking about it sounds as though you choose to stay with MS Office is because you are familiar with it, not because it's better.

By the way. OpenOffice and StarOffice both have direct export to LaTeX. One of the outstanding features of OOo is it's wide document support.

aysiu
December 4th, 2006, 02:05 AM
When a demo is "web-based" but requires an ActiveX plugin, it's not really cross-platform. It requires Windows.

FyreBrand
December 4th, 2006, 02:08 AM
Yeah and not only Windows, but requires you to use IE. A couple of the articles pointed out that the lack of cross-platform functionality is a drawback.

sicofante
December 4th, 2006, 10:28 AM
I also want OO to have a better interface and more userfriendly. But we don't have the unlimited resources that MS has.
I find it hard to believe that current OOo sponsors (Sun, but also Novell and other commercial distros) don't have the money to hire professional designers. It's not code or programming what's lacking in OOo, it's user interaction design (that's a lot more than fancy icons), which is where Microsoft has put all efforts in the latest Office 2007. OOo made the great mistake of copying every Office feature (and mistakes...). Now that Microsoft has changed directions, OOo's efforts look silly. That's the risk of imitation versus innovation.

But there's still time to react: if all those who pour money into OOo's development acknowledge a user interaction paradigm change is in order (and try NOT to copy Microsoft's ideas but come up with their own), we might see a very healthy competition.

Hiring user interaction specialists, by the way, is the first thing companies like Novell, RedHat or Canonical should do. It seems there are thousands of programmers wanting to volunteer for Linux, but not so many good user interaction designers are as "free"...

Magnes
December 4th, 2006, 11:51 AM
I used Microsoft Word for VERY long time. Now I'm using Open Office and I like it very much (since 2.0, I didn't liked 1.0), I even think it's better than Word now although needs some polishing. It's interesting to test every new version and discover what was made better :). (sorry for my English :/).

ade234uk
December 4th, 2006, 11:59 AM
That is correct. They really do need to hire some designers. If I shifted everyone in the Office to OO the complaints would come streaming in. The first complaint would be, how do I start it. The fonts look different. It feels slow compared to word.

OO can be better then Microsoft Office. People like familiriaty. They need to remember they are dealing with Average users.

Like I said in my earlier post, people will always use Office as the benchmark. I cannot understand why OO goes down the road OO is great becuase its free, but it still lacks in loads of areas and compared to office it has years to catch up.

unlokia
December 4th, 2006, 07:52 PM
I would like to see the likes of MS + Apple + Open-source community all collaborate and come up with something fantastic, taking examples and ideas from 2007.

On another point - I cannot for the life of me see why PUBLISHER 2007's gui was left looking the same as in 2003. ODD!!

terminatorkobold
December 4th, 2006, 10:16 PM
One thing that shocks me about this discussion is the amount of people who claim to be using MS Office or OOo for academic papers etc. Neither should be used for academic or research papers. The standard for these types of documents is LaTeX as it is for works intended to be published as books or in journals.

I am suprised that the person who did his PhD in OOo actually had it accepted, I would be expected to use LaTeX for my thesis, whether I wanted to or not.


Paladine

Hi Paladine,

Why not OOo, it allowed me to do what needed to be done with ease and afterwards the document can be submitted as an Open Document, PDF or LaTex formated file. I don't think that you could tell which aplication I used to redact it if I sent you a printed copy. From my experience journals nowadays tend to require either a LaTex file, or a MS Word file or a postscript file for publications.
As an organic chemist I needed almost no equations in my text and the bibliography database was the main reason for my use of OOo.

Finally, as my boss would have said, PhD thesis should be done on a typewriter and the figures drawn by hand. It teaches patience and precision on the task ;)

Yours,

Terminatorkobold

sanderella
December 4th, 2006, 10:24 PM
MS Office costs an arm and a leg. We bought ours in 2000. Now it doesn't work very well, and we are supposed to get an update?? That's the other arm and the other leg.

Titi
December 5th, 2006, 09:09 AM
i don't think i've ever had a legal version on MS office on mij computer. so the last time i had to reinstall winxp, i installed openoffice. i liked the idea of it being free, and i've never complained about it, untill i wanted to solve a least squares problem. i remembered from excel, you could just enter some values and let excel do the regression. but i just couldn't find that function in openoffice. that was a major disappointment. and the fact that i can't play powerpoints with the animations. but that's just because of the stupid animations and the stupid folks who use them...
so, when is the regression trendline tool gonna appear in openoffice?

Magnes
December 5th, 2006, 09:14 AM
when is the regression trendline tool gonna appear in openoffice?

http://www.comfsm.fm/~dleeling/statistics/xyscattergraph.html - read this, there is section with open office howto

qazwsx
December 12th, 2006, 02:26 PM
You are going to work 8 h producing a document and 20 s of that you are booting OOo. Yeah you have lost about 0,07 % of your productivity. What a difference!!!!!!!!!!
Ok let's assume little bit more you are going to open let's say 5 other documents during the same day. My approximation will be then 5*5 seconds. Now the time you have wasted is totally 45 s equals 0.16%. So I don't find OOo slower in other tasks than booting and opening a document. Yes of course in massive spreadsheets there is a big diffrence but that is very little problem for me.
I am pretty sure that I can save that time by using OOo's very good equation editor instead of that crappy Microsoft equation editor. I am still missing equilibrium arrow (in latex rightleftharpoons) so I had to replace one sign with diffrent font and letter.

I am also missing in calc some plotting functions like good error bars (XY). I am not missing automatical equation in graph simply because I like so much LINEST function. It just tells me everything I need. I really like to know what I am doing so tools that are in Excel data analysis are something that I really hate. Those tools just print numbers not formulas on spreadsheet :evil:

So I like to use OOo and when I have to use M$ Office (which happens very rarely) I am missing easy to use OOo. For me OOo is definately better. As it is for 99% of other human beings out there.

Sorry my I English can be qyuite awfull because of grammar. I just found this thread pretty intresting

ihavenoname
December 12th, 2006, 05:00 PM
You are going to work 8 h producing a document and 20 s of that you are booting OOo. Yeah you have lost about 0,07 % of your productivity. What a difference!!!!!!!!!!
Ok let's assume little bit more you are going to open let's say 5 other documents during the same day. My approximation will be then 5*5 seconds. Now the time you have wasted is totally 45 s equals 0.16%. So I don't find OOo slower in other tasks than booting and opening a document. Yes of course in massive spreadsheets there is a big diffrence but that is very little problem for me.
I am pretty sure that I can save that time by using OOo's very good equation editor instead of that crappy Microsoft equation editor. I am still missing equilibrium arrow (in latex rightleftharpoons) so I had to replace one sign with diffrent font and letter.

I am also missing in calc some plotting functions like good error bars (XY). I am not missing automatical equation in graph simply because I like so much LINEST function. It just tells me everything I need. I really like to know what I am doing so tools that are in Excel data analysis are something that I really hate. Those tools just print numbers not formulas on spreadsheet :evil:

So I like to use OOo and when I have to use M$ Office (which happens very rarely) I am missing easy to use OOo. For me OOo is definately better. As it is for 99% of other human beings out there.

Sorry my I English can be qyuite awfull because of grammar. I just found this thread pretty intresting


Haha, excellant points! (Don't worry your english is very clear.)

jlinho
December 12th, 2006, 06:04 PM
I think Excel is better than Calc.
It's a lot faster. For instance, sorting big tables (over 20 000 lines) is really quick in Excel (1 sec) and it's very long in Calc (more minutes). Making a "pivot table report" on such a table (20 000 lines, 20 columns) is totally impossible with Calc (maybe in one hour) and it takes less than 2 seconds in Excel.

Excel is also more stable than Calc and is much faster.

In Writer, the spellchecker is quite bad and there is no grammar checking.
I experienced better stability with Word than Writer.


Impress is ok in my use. But PowerPoint seems faster

aysiu
December 12th, 2006, 06:06 PM
I think Excel is better than Calc.
It's a lot faster. For instance, sorting big tables (over 20 000 lines) is really quick in Excel and it's nearly impossible in Calc. Making a "pivot table report" on such a table (20 000 lines, 20 columns) is totally impossible.

Excel is also more stable than Calc.

In Writer, the spellchecker is quite bad and there is no grammar checking.
In other words, for business use, MS Office; but for home use, save yourself some money and use OpenOffice.

jlinho
December 12th, 2006, 06:14 PM
In other words, for business use, MS Office; but for home use, save yourself some money and use OpenOffice.

Exact

aysiu
December 12th, 2006, 06:17 PM
Exact
But that's not what happens.

I see far too many people using MS Office at home. And I'm not talking pirated versions--these people paid hundreds of dollars for it.

In fact, a few years ago, I was one of those people...

Oki
December 12th, 2006, 10:25 PM
I need the spellcheck (Dyslexia), witch both has(also for my own language). But the spellcheck in OOo Writer is so damn slow, its a pain to use – while MS office is so fast and better.

I just read about an Norwegian firm (big one) that are now trying to replace MS with Ooo :-D The fun part is that this firm is selling MS office he he

darrowconley
December 13th, 2006, 05:48 AM
I have to reiterate what people have said about calculate vs. excel.

As an engineering student need to use just about every capability of excel and calculate simple does not match up.

I have Open office loaded on all of my computers but because I am usually doing work in excel I haven't used it all that much.

Qrk
December 13th, 2006, 08:01 AM
But that's not what happens.

I see far too many people using MS Office at home. And I'm not talking pirated versions--these people paid hundreds of dollars for it.

In fact, a few years ago, I was one of those people...

I gave my father Office 2003 for Christmas last year because I had a discount to get it for US $15. At first he was quite excited, he owns his own consulting business and therefore has a large need for a good office suite. However, after about a week he was back to open office. His reasons ...

1) He liked giving people PDFs instead of .docs, as they were more professional.
2) He liked that Open Office was simpler than MS office.
3) He already knew how to use Open Office.

Its actually somewhat funny. I couldn't get him to switch to Linux, but I did get him to switch to Thunderbird, Firefox, Open Office and Freemind. So he uses open source, platform independent software almost exclusively. The only thing that would change if he switched to Ubuntu is that he wouldn't have a start button. But he's afraid to get Linux. Although, he did say that he'd consider switching if I moved closer to home, so that he could come to me for advice.

steven8
December 13th, 2006, 08:06 AM
So move. :-) it's a small price to pay.

gerowen
December 13th, 2006, 10:40 AM
I'm using OpenOffice 2.0.4 in Kubuntu 6.10, and I have yet to find a single feature missing that I use. All of the features I use in MS Office 2003 are present in OpenOffice and I can even export files to .pdf and send documents in an e-mail directly from a button in OpenOffice. Who needs Microsoft Outlook when you can use KMail(my choice), Evolution, Thunderbird, or what have you, and then have your Office suite integrate with your e-mailer of choice? You know what I absolutely "detest" about MS Office though? It is pretty much the industry standard as of right now, and all of their document types are closed source. So yeah you can open a .doc file in OO Writer and not have any issues, but try opening a PowerPoint Presentation with lots of animations in OO Presentation and see what you get.

slimdog360
December 13th, 2006, 10:54 AM
For those who didnt already know this, MS put out índividual office 'viewers' which are cost free. The programs can be installed with crossover office quite easily. Crossover comes with a sort of repository for these things so you can install them with a few clicks.

These 'viewers' dont let you edit the files or even save them in other formats. But you can view them and print. Which for me is great, I dont have to buy MS office but I can still use the formats for Uni etc.

Im just mentioning this as Ive only just realised that his sort of thing was possible and will save me a great deal of hassle in the future.

karellen
December 13th, 2006, 11:10 AM
I don't know, I'm being subjective but I like more the new office 2007 than openoffice. I think it's the only microsoft software that I prefer to it's open source alternative...It's simply more polished, looks better, the fonts are rendered very nice - especially calibri and segoe ui, the interface is more ergonomic and so on. Of course I wouldn't pay $400-$500 for the suite, I have the beta version (which was free to download, I don't know how it's now) but it works good and I experienced no crashes whatsoever. I simply like it...though is MS...I don't care

Snowmayne
December 13th, 2006, 04:35 PM
Of course I wouldn't pay $400-$500 for the suite, I have the beta version (which was free to download, I don't know how it's now) but it works good and I experienced no crashes whatsoever.

Of course once beta is disabled in February, you'll either have to dole out the $$$ or go back to something else. :cool: Me, I've be using the beta office since it came out and over all, yeah most of it looks pretty. But having used the menubar for years, relearning the new look is a complete pain in the tuckus.

once I learned how to use word, every other M$O app was pretty much the same as far as figuring out what I wanted it to do. If the learning curve in OOo was as easy to learn as M$Office was, I'd probably make that complete switch. But so far.... let me put it this way: I can do a copy from a webpage, paste it in word, save as html and open it up in outlook or excel. I can't do that with OOo.

karellen
December 13th, 2006, 06:18 PM
I know, I'll just have to switch to something else. Anyway, I like the new interface

IYY
December 13th, 2006, 06:49 PM
When compared to MS Office 2000 (I don't like anything that came after it), Open Office is slower, buggier, slightly less intuitive, and not as feature complete (especially Spreadsheet and Presentation). However, the 'export to PDF', the superior equation editor, the ability to open more formats... There Open Office wins.

For most documents, however, I think that LaTeX is far better than any word processor.

For the spreadsheets that I create (simple ones) Gnumeric is enough.

Though less feature complete, Impress is actually good enough for most presentations. I think that a simple text over a graphical or plain colour background is the best design, and no fancy special effects are needed.

Quillz
January 4th, 2007, 06:03 AM
http://www.desktoplinux.com/articles/AT8171250759.html

Come on, what puts OO.o on par with Office '95? I say it's better than Office 2003. :cool:
I wouldn't consider OOo to be better than Office 2003, or even equal to it, in strict terms of features. However, for the average user, it's probably far more than enough to work with.

learning
January 4th, 2007, 06:42 AM
I use Open Office exclusively in my office and I love it. I type/draft documents all the time. I have to admit the spellcheck is not as good with suggestions, but on the other hand, Word is not perfect either. Frankly, I have made silly mistakes many times thanks to relying on spellcheck or grammer checkers. I think it is better to just be more careful, and not rely on the program. Kind of the same old complaint about if the power went out most cashiers could not make change for you.

I love the way I can open anything and it usually requires very little formatting corrections (nothing is perfect). I used to use export to pdf a lot, to send copies to people. I don't use it so much anymore. People want to see copies of my work quite often. I used to export to pdf and send it out. Lately, I have started telling people I would love to help them, but they probably can't open my files, and while I could convert them I don't really want to bother... but they can get Open Office for free, and then I could send them stuff all the time. It has actually resulted in a few installs!

neoflight
January 4th, 2007, 07:20 AM
when i send a technical documents with figures and charts, my profs find them weired that their office installation (2003) screws up the alignment.

i learned the hard way that the best way to insert figures in word is to put them in tables. i just create two row-one column table with the figure pasted into the top row and the caption in the bottom row. they all get messed up in a word env; esp large files with many many pages.

ppt still messes up the OO presentation. text boxes all over the place. i am now advocating them to get settled with pdf version :mrgreen:

i care less since i use latex these days. (after being disintegrated when word+macros messed up my MS thesis on the day of submission ](*,) )
imho: outlook is the king, though i dont use it anymore.

I dont have a windows system anymore. except my dual boot laptop. i use it just to chat (yahoo voice and cam - my creative pro notebook cam doesn't work in linux) with my family. a mere 7 gb partition !

rocknrolf77
January 4th, 2007, 06:26 PM
Just wondering how things have improved in open office 2.1? :) Don't know so much about the functions in office suites. But I do know that I will rather use an open document format rather than a closed one.

SoundOfPoetTree
February 6th, 2007, 01:27 AM
I am an Economics major at Michigan Technological University, and I frequently use Microsoft Excel (on my desktop which runs Windows XP... my laptop runs Ubuntu Feisty) for data analysis. More specifically, I use the descriptive statistics plugin quite frequently. While OpenOffice has many of the necessary functions built into its Calc program, it does lack the "macro" version that Microsoft Office contains.

Until OpenOffice developers add this functionality (which I know they are working on from reading their wiki), I will and must continue to use Microsoft Office.

shareMenaPeace
February 6th, 2007, 01:52 AM
Nobody mentioned yet the security of the software and the support for older versions.

Older Office version have no support and stop even running under VISTA!
If you browse security bulletins you will find out that specialy MS Office software is really faulty and insecure.

Yes openOffice is not save either but the amount of virus targeting OO is nearly zero.
So useing MS Office instead of OO in his company can be lead to extreme problems while a company employee somehow opened a wrong email attachement :)

For myself i never used any Ms Office product, simply there was never teh need - for letters i just used notepad and wordpad under xp.

Now under ubuntu i tried the first time the Open office Presentation Software.
It is really great and im successfull with it (business like).

Also 1 of my clients uses powerpoint and i had no problems exporting my OO Pres files for PowerPoint.

A modern company should use OpenOffice.
It is more reliable, compatible to MS Office file types, free, and most importend - more secure.

aysiu
February 6th, 2007, 01:54 AM
Open source needs a long way to go to over come Microsoft Right. Because Office is representative of open source v. Microsoft in all areas. Because Firefox really had a lot of catching up to do to be better than Internet Explorer...

Well, since someone has revived your months-old thread, I've merged it with the other OpenOffice/MS Office thread.

euler_fan
February 6th, 2007, 04:16 AM
On net, I can't say there is anything I miss, but I might also not be the usual . . .

Not being a huge power-user of MSO or OO.org, I haven't been able to tell a difference. I do have to send a number of MSO users docs, so I usually save them as OO.org files first and then save as .doc/.xls/etc.

Then again, I would also prefer to never use MSO (especially excel) for statistical work (I have seen some of the benchmarks and they are horrid compared to a real stats tool, or getting good results requires tweaking settings, and there is no way to know exactly what is going on in the black box . . . ).
My favorite example is the fact that if you put in a column of 50/50 1000000000000000001 and 1000000000000000002 or longer numbers the standard deviation should be constant (and I believe 1/2) but it gets bigger the more zeros there are in the middle if you use the Standard Deviation function in Excel.:!: Not nice. I will stick with R. See Altman, Gill, and McDonald (2004) "Numerical Issues in Statistical Computing for the Social Scientist" and some of their references for more on this.

I don't do much database work either, and never learned any serious VBA. So there goes that. If I ever did have to I would probably just force myself to learn SQL of some stripe or another, then dump the data into R or SciLab or Octave.

I use LyX and it has made me want to learn LaTeX. So there goes using either MSO or OO.org for writing scholarly papers unless the journal/prof wants them in .doc format :)

I will agree that not being able to integrate my schedule with emails and email-based appointment scheduling is something missing. I use Thunderbird, and would be greatly pleased if the Lightning/Sunbird app (plug-in or stand-alone or both) could integrate with email. Not that I would use it much, but I like nice shiny new stable features any day! Then again, I didn't use much of what Office Outlook had to offer when I did use it.

FyreBrand
February 6th, 2007, 06:36 AM
I use LyX and it has made me want to learn LaTeX. So there goes using either MSO or OO.org for writing scholarly papers unless the journal/prof wants them in .doc format :)
According to OO.org it supports direct export to LaTeX. I've never used that feature so I don't know if it writes a bunch of junk code like wysiwyg html writers do (dreamweaver, nvu, etc) or if it is nice and clean. If you feel like giving it a whirl I would be interested in hearing what you think.

ade234uk
February 6th, 2007, 08:18 AM
There are a few things with OO that I did not like which forced me back to M$ office. I hated doing this, but I found it was taking me double the amount of time to get the same job done.

When opening more that one worksheet OO opens this in a totally seperate window. Sometimes I need to able copy and paste information between the two worksheets. Sometimes I need to have the worksheets side by side and zoomed down.

If you save a worksheet as a .htm document and try to import this back in it OO will not open it.

Also OO has always felt sluggish to me.

OO does not need to look 100% like M$ office, but I feel they still need to bring more familiarity to the product, so that new users are comfortable using it.

I would £20 - 30 for OO if I knew it worked the same as m$ products.

I dont like M$ one bit, but I have to admit their office products are very good.

Same goes for outlook. I still cannot find a viable alternative to this. No matter how many other email clients I have tried there is always something missing.

sicofante
February 6th, 2007, 03:49 PM
Totally agreed.

On a side note: I hope more and more small developers go the route of charging a little for their software and make individual gems. The "open source/committee design" route is great for some things, but I'm a firm believer in individual genius. I'm about to buy Pixel Image Editor to support both its developer and that model. I've also insisted at ArtRage's forum that they port their app and sell it to Linux users.

mightyteegar
February 6th, 2007, 04:36 PM
What the heck, here's my hat and two cents.

As a student I use OpenOffice on Ubuntu for everything I need an office app for (papers, spreadsheets, etc.). It works just fine for me. I even have access to no-cost legal versions of MS Office if I want them, which I don't. (I run XP under VMWare because two of my classes have online content that requires IE.)

That said, MS Office has one massive selling point over OpenOffice in the corporate world: collaboration/integration. Before going back to school I worked for a company that used the web-based SalesForce CRM platform. It offers an Office integration tool that every employee, including myself, saw as a godsend. With a few clicks on buttons from a prospect record page one could open a sales-proposal Word template with form fields that SalesForce would fill out on the fly, complete with welcome letter and save it directly to the prospect's record in SalesForce as an attachment. It would even save revisions for us. After a half-day's worth of training everyone could share manufacturing data, service records, warranty info and so on with no productivity loss.

Prospect and customer demos could be scheduled in SalesForce and sent to our Outlook clients as events. Emails sent from Outlook to clients in our database could be saved in a communications log attached to that client's record. It was incredible what the thing could do, and this one "little" app damn near revolutionized many of the business processes for a simple heavy machinery maker. Vendor lock-in notwithstanding, I can't imagine how nice SharePoint must be for complex teams in huge businesses.

Microsoft's Office clipart site is impressive as well. I used to use a lot of free clipart and stock-free photos when I worked as a graphic designer for a small newspaper. Overall, MS's clipart blows away any no-cost competitor I ever used. Of course, the drawback is that you have to have MS Clip Organizer installed to use the images, which are in WMF format; otherwise I'd likely never use anything else.

Back to OpenOffice's camp. The editor of the aforementioned newspaper uses OpenOffice for editing the paper's content and sending it to the layout team. I used to be their webmaster, and he would send me the ODT documents each month to post on the paper's website. Since ODF is nothing more than ZIPped XML, I wrote a Perl script to almost completely automate transforming ODT documents into HTML for publication on the website. The script extracts content.xml from the ODT file, parses it and uses regex replacement to format the articles with the proper HTML tags, and it even resizes images and puts <img> tags where they need to go. What used to be six hours of work for me each month became 45 minutes, and I still get paid the same (shhh!).

There is tremendous power with both apps. However, as has been said already a thousand times, OpenOffice is all most smaller entities (including most small businesses) need for their everyday document needs.

Tadpole
February 15th, 2007, 01:03 AM
I'm putting this thread here because I'd like to know Linux users' opinions about this. I've played around with ubuntu on an old computer before, but just when I was about to switch full-time something happened.

Microsoft released Office 2007.

Oh. My. God. I realized it has been poo-pooed by OpenOffice users, but seriously. I've already built two Vista computers and put Office 2007 on both, and I can honestly say this is the greatest piece of software I've ever used, hands down.

Is it possible for someone to make an OpenOffice plugin that imitates the ribbon? I don't care if it's copying; as long as no IP laws are violated, I say do it. What do you guys think?

meng
February 15th, 2007, 01:05 AM
Opinions differ on the ribbon, some reviewers flat out don't like it.

nickburns
February 15th, 2007, 01:06 AM
There are some companies that have a version of Wine that runs MS Office on it. You may want to look into that.

Tadpole
February 15th, 2007, 01:08 AM
Opinions differ on the ribbon, some reviewers flat out don't like it.That's why I'm hoping for a plugin, so the user can decide.


There are some companies that have a version of Wine that runs MS Office on it. You may want to look into that.Great idea! I just don't know if it will support Office 2007, since it's so new.

borris.morris
February 15th, 2007, 01:12 AM
Amen brother.

maxamillion
February 15th, 2007, 01:19 AM
....... I've already built two Vista computers and put Office 2007 on both, and I can honestly say this is the greatest piece of software I've ever used, hands down........
What do you guys think?

I think you are entitled to your opinion, but I also think I am entitled to mine. Which I sadly must keep to myself because I would more likely than not be breaking an Ubuntero rule from the CoC and the end of my epic flame would probably end in my being banned.

Did you catch that hint or are you too blinded by Vista, Office 2007, and its stupid ribbon to wrap your mind around something so subtle?

:mad:

Tadpole
February 15th, 2007, 01:26 AM
I think you are entitled to your opinion, but I also think I am entitled to mine. Which I sadly must keep to myself because I would more likely than not be breaking an Ubuntero rule from the CoC and the end of my epic flame would probably end in my being banned.

Did you catch that hint or are you too blinded by Vista, Office 2007, and its stupid ribbon to wrap your mind around something so subtle?

:mad:I don't understand...you are angry that I like a certain piece of software?

Are you serious?

javaJake
February 15th, 2007, 01:26 AM
Did you catch that hint or are you too blinded by Vista, Office 2007, and its stupid ribbon to wrap your mind around something so subtle?

:mad:

I perfectly understand how you could hate Microsoft with their high prices, DRM, and insane insecurity, but that's no reason to come here and bash Microsoft without giving any good reasons.

Besides, that sort of talk is going to start flaming if users aren't careful.

maxamillion
February 15th, 2007, 01:57 AM
I don't understand...you are angry that I like a certain piece of software?

Are you serious?

No, I'm not angry .... I said you are entitled to your opinion, I simply implied that I didn't share this opinion in the most "refrain from flaming" way I could think of.


I perfectly understand how you could hate Microsoft with their high prices, DRM, and insane insecurity, but that's no reason to come here and bash Microsoft without giving any good reasons.

Besides, that sort of talk is going to start flaming if users aren't careful.

Don't preach to me, I don't care to waste my time reading it. I expressed my opinion without flaming, but I am tired of MS huggers coming around complaining about how this or that isn't like it is on windows and it constantly brings me back to the fact that "linux != windows" and those who want to use Windows or its MS Office suite counterpart should do so and not complain to the open source community about it.

I am all about freedom of opinion and choice, Tadpole asked for others opinions ... I threw mine out there, it wasn't desirable from his perspective and I understand that. As for freedom, every user is free to chose their operating system and office suite; if another user choses a different combination than I, or the entire community upon which this forum was created, prefer then that is fine but don't get bent out of shape when I express my opinion about my choice.

Office 2007 is horrible. <---There is my opinion, plain and simple .... are we happy now?

javaJake
February 15th, 2007, 02:07 AM
I am all about freedom of opinion and choice, Tadpole asked for others opinions ... I threw mine out there, it wasn't desirable from his perspective and I understand that. As for freedom, every user is free to chose their operating system and office suite; if another user choses a different combination than I, or the entire community upon which this forum was created, prefer then that is fine but don't get bent out of shape when I express my opinion about my choice.

Office 2007 is horrible. <---There is my opinion, plain and simple .... are we happy now?

Sorry if I souded like I was preaching. I didn't intend to sound like that. I didn't realize you were only expressing your opinion. And, yea, I'm happy now. :D

bodhi.zazen
February 15th, 2007, 02:12 AM
LOL maxamillion :lol:

don't let 'em yank your chain :)

I'll just say :

1. I think javaJake's post is a joke (meaning I think he was trying to be funny, well I thought it was funny at any rate).

2. I have found OOO, or light text editors to be all I need. Sometime I even use gasp .... vim

3. I tend to agree with maxamillion's opinion re: Office 2007. Frankly I do not see it has much to offer me.

4. Perhaps it would help if Tadpole could list specific features that could enhance OOO.

5. Last, to be even handed, every OS has it's advantages and disadvantages. I have respect for any user who, after considering all options, selects the OS that best meets their needs. IMO Linux currently best fits my needs.

javaJake
February 15th, 2007, 02:16 AM
Well said, bodhi.zazen, well said. :)

Shay Stephens
February 15th, 2007, 02:19 AM
I would like to see things develop independently. I am not in favor of continually aping Microsoft. For all the people who say that Linux != Windows, that argument would carry more weight if we stopped embracing every little design idea Microsoft comes up with to tempt people to upgrade to their latest vendor lock-in cash-cow.

Personally, I don't care how insanely great any Microsoft software is. Its aim is to take my freedoms away. And until Microsoft changes their tactics in that regard, I am not touching another thing from them. And I am certainly not going to hypocritically embrace with open arms their design styles.

Motoxrdude
February 15th, 2007, 02:27 AM
Sorry to continue the hijacked thread of this thread, but maximillion STFU. This isn't a "Who likes what peice of software, and who doesn't thread!". It was just a recommendation/question thread. So next time, can you please refrain from making an idiot of yourself and stfu? Thanks.

jvc26
February 15th, 2007, 02:30 AM
Sorry to continue the hijacked thread of this thread, but maximillion STFU. This isn't a "Who likes what peice of software, and who doesn't thread!". It was just a recommendation/question thread. So next time, can you please refrain from making an idiot of yourself and stfu? Thanks.
*yawn* thats just pathetic. The topic had moved away from any form of flaming and you went and dived back in there. All of the people here have expressed opinions, and do so, rightly or wrongly in ways that they did. Why resort to personal comments/flaming? Its just boring and wastes people's time reading it.
Il

seth556
February 15th, 2007, 02:35 AM
I have run Office 2007 on my Windows Xp dual boot and I actually switched back to Office 2003 because 2007 was slow (mostly because my computer is slow). It had a nice layout thing but wasn't simple enough for me. When I go to write somehting I don't like tons of stuff all around my writing with options, I like to be able to get to those options but not have them bomb-barded all around my writing.

Tadpole
February 15th, 2007, 02:55 AM
No, I'm not angry .... I said you are entitled to your opinion, I simply implied that I didn't share this opinion in the most "refrain from flaming" way I could think of.Okay, so when you used the "mad" icon, you weren't really mad. And when you asked if I was "too blinded ... to wrap [my] mind around" your comments, that was your attempt at not flaming. Thank you for the clarification, we do not need to speak further.


I would like to see things develop independently. I am not in favor of continually aping Microsoft. For all the people who say that Linux != Windows, that argument would carry more weight if we stopped embracing every little design idea Microsoft comes up with to tempt people to upgrade to their latest vendor lock-in cash-cow.Well that's the thing. I think everyone in the computer industry is paranoid about being seen as a "copier" EXCEPT Microsoft, which is why Vista actually turned out to be a pretty cool OS. Imagine if MS decided not to include the instant search feature, gadgets, and security features like ASLR (http://blogs.msdn.com/michael_howard/archive/2006/05/26/address-space-layout-randomization-in-windows-vista.aspx) just because other OSes already have them.

So like bodhi said, every OS has it's advantages, so let's COPY each other (within the legal limits) instead of artificially restraining ourselves in order to look original.

bpmorris
February 15th, 2007, 03:15 AM
I totally agree with Tadpole! Also wouldn’t it make sense to have a Linux office product that included similar features so as to make an easier transition for MS users down the track??

maxamillion
February 15th, 2007, 07:12 AM
My apologies to all if I upset or offended .... LOOOOONG day at work (where I made the previous 2 posts from).

1) Office 2007 is horrible for many reasons, but if the general consensus would like to add a feature in order to mimic something of Office 2007 that in turn would benefit the good of the Open Source Desktop, then I am all for it .... as long as I can disable it if it ends up annoying me ;)


2) uhmmm... sorry again? ... now that i think back, i don't really have a 2....

:D

stalkier
February 15th, 2007, 07:45 AM
Personally I use MS Office 2007 Ultimate. I really like it and I have been using MS Office for a long time. I like how it is continuely being more integrated into a suite. I have used many operating systems as well including Vista for a few months. (Yes it was a warez copy and yes it locked me out of the OS after 30 days, damn MS) However, I really love Ubuntu and the freedom that this OS gives including the OpenOffice.org suite. It works well for my online college work and personally I think it is well worth the price (free). I am not sure what this "ribbon" is that you are all talking about. Can someone please clarify this for me?? Thanks guys.

maxamillion
February 15th, 2007, 07:51 AM
In my opinion, if you want to pay for an office suite (why would anyone do that??? :P), StarOffice is probably the most advanced in feature set at the moment (again, I must note that this is a matter of opinion because "most advanced" is always going to be a fluid concept) .... its kinda like Wine is to CrossOver or Cedega but OpenOffice to StarOffice ... and we must also not forget that OpenOffice is sponsored by Sun Microsystems so next time your friendly Sun Rep. is in town, buy him a beverage of his liking and say "thanks" ;)

igknighted
February 15th, 2007, 07:56 AM
In my opinion, if you want to pay for an office suite (why would anyone do that??? :P), StarOffice is probably the most advanced in feature set at the moment (again, I must note that this is a matter of opinion because "most advanced" is always going to be a fluid concept) .... its kinda like Wine is to CrossOver or Cedega but OpenOffice to StarOffice ... and we must also not forget that OpenOffice is sponsored by Sun Microsystems so next time your friendly Sun Rep. is in town, buy him a beverage of his liking and say "thanks" ;)

Is this the same version of star office that comes with Sun's Solaris OS? Or do they make a fancier version that they don't distribute with the OS?

mahy
February 15th, 2007, 08:51 AM
Someone should remove this darn thread from Absolute Beginner Talk. To the Backyard, if i might suggest.

MrKlean
February 15th, 2007, 09:50 AM
Just a quick comment..there is a reason Gates is worth 54 BILLION dollars....and it's NOT cause he cares about the end user !!

SlayerMan
February 15th, 2007, 10:20 AM
@OP: Stop complaining, start coding :)

Seriously, this is a feature that certainly doesn't have top priority on the developers' todo-lists. Not too many people want OpenOffice to imitate MS Office.

Tadpole
February 15th, 2007, 02:30 PM
I am not sure what this "ribbon" is that you are all talking about. Can someone please clarify this for me?? Thanks guys.It's that tabbed toolbar at the top of the screen.


Not too many people want OpenOffice to imitate MS Office.I believe that's what it's already doing :)

maxamillion
February 15th, 2007, 09:59 PM
Is this the same version of star office that comes with Sun's Solaris OS? Or do they make a fancier version that they don't distribute with the OS?

I'm not sure if there are different versions.

http://www.sun.com/software/star/staroffice/index.jsp <-- if you wanna investigate :P

Cheddarhead
February 15th, 2007, 10:10 PM
Hi Max- Offic e 2007 rocks, like it or not. Office workers use office, not open source... so get off your soapbox. It is a 1000% improvement over previous versions. Thats all. I am new here, but I felt inclined, or maybe reclined... (in my lazyboy)

Cheers

figgles
February 15th, 2007, 10:10 PM
TWiT (http://www.twit.tv/) thought the ribbon was overall nice. I'm adding ubuntu to my OS arsenal as I'm tired the overhead of GUI requirements on my CPU. This includes stripping down to xubuntu, even if my CPU can keep up.

If the ribbon adds overhead, then I don't like it. But that's just me -- it's also why I don't care for default KDE.

Cheddarhead
February 15th, 2007, 10:12 PM
Hi Max- Offic e 2007 rocks, like it or not. Office workers use office, not open source... so get off your soapbox. It is a 1000% improvement over previous versions. Thats all. I am new here, but I felt inclined, or maybe reclined... (in my lazyboy)

Cheers

Plus I am intoxicated