Open Office vs. MS Office

[Old_Gray_Wolf]

I know that in theory. But in practice, I haven't found it to matter.

I have. I made a button that executed a sort macro to make some spreadsheets work.

[schmidtbag]

I prefer MS Office 2003 over OpenOffice 2.4 (I'm downloading 3.0 right now so my opinion may change) but Office 2007 is just a resource consuming, inflated piece of crap. Even Office 2003 was larger than necessary but at least it has the essentials.

[zmjjmz]

I've found that I don't even need OpenOffice, and I just write my essays in Abiword now.

[sharp65]

Try OO3 and uinstalled it shortly after. There is really nothing impressive about it, it just looks so dated compared to office 2007. Maybe I'll try it again when 4 rolls along, but for now I'll stick to office.

[rudihawk]

I don't have MS Office, I have OO and I love it to bits. I've had to use MS Office 2007 at school, boy was that frustrating.

[gnuvistawouldbecool]

Try OO3 and uinstalled it shortly after. There is really nothing impressive about it, it just looks so dated compared to office 2007. Maybe I'll try it again when 4 rolls along, but for now I'll stick to office.

I thought Office 2007 looked too good, in fact. Whenever I used it I thought it seemed to sacrifice usability for good visual effects, which is what I'd expect from a game, not a word processor. So if your only reason against OOo is that it looks older, consider if you actually need a functional item like a word processor to look good.

Edit: My university updated all it's machines to have Office 2007 over the summer, and quite frankly I prefer Abiword that I stuck on my allocated area to it. I don't need a massive, 1.5 GB or so program just to write a letter, or type up notes, or pretty much anything else for that matter.

[karellen]

I thought Office 2007 looked too good, in fact. Whenever I used it I thought it seemed to sacrifice usability for good visual effects, which is what I'd expect from a game, not a word processor. So if your only reason against OOo is that it looks older, consider if you actually need a functional item like a word processor to look good.

Edit: My university updated all it's machines to have Office 2007 over the summer, and quite frankly I prefer Abiword that I stuck on my allocated area to it. I don't need a massive, 1.5 GB or so program just to write a letter, or type up notes, or pretty much anything else for that matter.

I find office 2007 interface much more intuitive and fast to work with than that of office 2003

[Vadi]

I found both to be lacking and pretty horrid. I use Adobe Buzzword (http://www.adobe.com/acom/buzzword/) now - however that's limited to me being online. Until then, a basic text editor does it.

[karellen]

I found both to be lacking and pretty horrid. I use Adobe Buzzword (http://www.adobe.com/acom/buzzword/) now - however that's limited to me being online. Until then, a basic text editor does it.

what's lacking in Office 2007 and can be found in Adobe Buzzword? :confused:

[Vadi]

what's lacking in Office 2007 and can be found in Adobe Buzzword? :confused:

Very polished and well-thought out interface, not buggy, nice smoothed out fonts, and it does the job well for it needs to do. It's also able to save as .pdf and .odt.

And it's cross-platform.

[karellen]

Very polished and well-thought out interface, not buggy, nice smoothed out fonts, and it does the job well for it needs to do. It's also able to save as .pdf and .odt.

And it's cross-platform.

to each his own. imho, office 2007 renders fonts very good

[Vadi]

able to save as pdf, odt, and is crossplatform?

[Chxta]

to each his own. imho, office 2007 renders fonts very good

Agreed. I use OOo, but to each his own.

[tsali]

I am an Excel power user. I need it for work. Calc simply doesn't compare.

However, for my personal word processing needs, I really love Abiword. It's FAST and surprisingly capable. It has all those neat plug-ins!

I sometimes like Google or ZOHO docs, but I often find them a bit underpowered...but they still sometimes fit the bill.

OO is a bloated beast. I do hope it gets better, but at this juncture, even running MSOffice in WINE is better...

[rudihawk]

I am an Excel power user. I need it for work. Calc simply doesn't compare.

However, for my personal word processing needs, I really love Abiword. It's FAST and surprisingly capable. It has all those neat plug-ins!



Can you elborate please?


However, for my personal word processing needs, I really love Abiword. It's FAST and surprisingly capable. It has all those neat plug-ins!



There is been a lot of praise for Abiword already, I think I am going to try it out.

EDIT: I just tried AbiWord - OMW!! it is soo fast :| I clicked the icon and I was ready to work in less than a second, it knocks the socks off OOWriter!

[CrazyArcher]

Can you elborate please?
I am an Excel power-user too, and I could elaborate on tsali's behalf :)

I tried out Calc a couple of times, and it brought me to the point of frustration in a matter of minutes. When you have to make a cell reference static, you got to brace it with '$' signs, right? In Excel, you can just hit F4 and it will do the job automatically, in Calc you simply don't have a hotkey for that - you have to type $'s manually. Another feature Calc doesn't have is automatic chart updates when you change the source data.

I'm pretty much sure that there are more things like that - I just couldn't stand Calc for long enough to discover them. I have an impression that people who made Calc have never actually worked with spreadsheets.

[rudihawk]

I am an Excel power-user too, and I could elaborate on tsali's behalf :)

I tried out Calc a couple of times, and it brought me to the point of frustration in a matter of minutes. When you have to make a cell reference static, you got to brace it with '$' signs, right? In Excel, you can just hit F4 and it will do the job automatically, in Calc you simply don't have a hotkey for that - you have to type $'s manually. Another feature Calc doesn't have is automatic chart updates when you change the source data.

I'm pretty much sure that there are more things like that - I just couldn't stand Calc for long enough to discover them. I have an impression that people who made Calc have never actually worked with spreadsheets.

Ah cool thanks man, I understand.
Calc updates my charts automatically as soon as I change the source data.

[Viranh]

I generally like open office better because my Linux laptop is more stable than the CAD lab computers at school. However, the spelling and grammar checkers in writer are terrible. I have to proof read myself very closely or it won't catch even simple typos. Calc is generally ok. I got through most of an "Engineering with Excel" class with it. It has most of the same functions, but when it comes to graphing, it falls on its face. It took a good bit of effort to find out how to fit a line at all, and I don't remember ever getting an r-squared value. I think I had to use the long equation from my stats book.

[tsali]

It's simple stuff the really accumulates to bog you down...for example, Excel has a quick keyboard shortcut for inserting the static current date and time as a timestamp string (not a live value)

It's "Control ;" OO doesn't have an equivalent feature and writing a macro to do this is a pain.

[2Perfect]

The only thing stopping me from completely switching to Open Office (or Linux and/or open source alternatives for that matter) is Microsoft OneNote 2007 and Microsoft Expression Web.

Expression web I can probably find an alternative for; and I can easily work with notepad if it comes down to it, but OneNote is priceless, and Xournal, Gournal, Jarnal just don't compare.

For Word, PowerPoint, Excel, open office does the job, and does it well. Although some pptx files (PowerPoint 2007) don't show up properly in open office.

[Chxta]

The only thing stopping me from completely switching to Open Office (or Linux and/or open source alternatives for that matter) is Microsoft OneNote 2007 and Microsoft Expression Web.

Expression web I can probably find an alternative for; and I can easily work with notepad if it comes down to it, but OneNote is priceless, and Xournal, Gournal, Jarnal just don't compare.

For Word, PowerPoint, Excel, open office does the job, and does it well. Although some pptx files (PowerPoint 2007) don't show up properly in open office.

If OneNote is the issue, I'll recommend you try KDE's BasKet (http://basket.kde.org/). Equally as good in my opinion, and equally priceless. Integrates with Kontact (as a PIM). KNotes is also very good, and also integrates with Kontact.

What is more, they can be synchronised with other people's notes as well.

I don't know much about the Gnome alternatives (I use Ubuntu with KDE installed), so I wouldn't want to mislead you...

[beyboo]

I am currently migrating 30,000 users in my company to Openoffice.org 2.4

We have a central helpdesk who monitor the user calls and answer how-tos with regards to the VLookups and pivot-tables and other advanced functions which they are so used do. So far we have 80% satisfied users.

[Chxta]

I am currently migrating 30,000 users in my company to Openoffice.org 2.4

We have a central helpdesk who monitor the user calls and answer how-tos with regards to the VLookups and pivot-tables and other advanced functions which they are so used do. So far we have 80% satisfied users.

You should have gone with OOo 3

[beyboo]

You should have gone with OOo 3

No reason to. IT does not work as the latest is the best. The best is what is needed and works well !!

[rudihawk]

True, stability for 30 000 users may be more important than the latest features.

[tsali]

So far we have 80% satisfied users.

I can't tell whether you're proud of this or if you're pointing it out as a problem.

In my company, 80% satisfaction with an IT product would be a HUGE PROBLEM.

Surely you aren't satisfied with this, are you?

[oleink]

The only problems with open office are rtf support. Saving in rtf for open office is like lighting your document on fire. Luckily since whoever you are sending to either has Microsoft office or Openoffice generally speaking you can use odf or doc formats. The only other missing features are Outlook and those can be made up for with other linux programs:popcorn:

[abhitux]

Impress sucks majorly as compared to Power point in many significant ways. Although, it all boils down to users perspective so please don't flame me.

Interoperability is a big issue between the file formats and I am facing a big problem at work where the entire infrastructure is MS Windows. I am sure that most of us face the same issue.

[skymera]

I like OpenOffice and I use it.

Doesn't feel quite finished or polished, but it'll do.

[lumore22]

Greetings -

I read all the posts with amusement. I prefer OpenOffice (now renamed LibreOffice to deal with the Oracle decisions on acquired open software).

Here's why:
--> Open Office uses the same intuitive interface (look & feel) that MSOffice used to have. OO is easy to use for this reason. It has all the features that I need plus a few hidden ones that work like they are supposed to.

EX> When converting .odt format to. html format or other formats.
EX> Previewing a document as a web document. Easy to grab the .html code and rededit it.

Microsoft made a big mistake when it redesigned its Office GUI to match the VISTA GUI. And eliminating features that users were used to was definitely not the way to go.

Why pay for an inferior product when you can use a feature rich free tool?

[nathan28]

I have been using OpenOffice for the this semester in grad school (not in hard sciences). I have a lot of complaints. Mostly I switched to Ubuntu b/c my school laptop would take ten+ minutes to boot into Windblows.

The biggest, biggest complaint is cross-platform compatibility. OpenOffice, MSOffice, KOffice and Acrobat don't play as nice as they should. Don't care what happens in Mac, but I hope whatever does upsets the user. This is ridiculous considering that Sun and Novell--you know, the real OS people--are behind OO. Almost all the work I do is word processing. For personal spreadsheets I'm okay with OpenOffice, but if it's going to someone else I us Excel. So most of this applies to the word processing programs.

The biggest problem is styles. Footnotes/endnotes, anchored/section-specific, headers and margins get bonkers between all of them. It's hard enough to format those just *inside* an office suite. But when I email and Oasis doc to someone who opens it in MSOffice and it goes bonkers, that's not okay. The work I do is serious. Appearances matter. I don't need it to look half-assed. Generally I rely on exporting to PDF but this sucks for collaboration.

IMO it would be about 70% reliable between platforms, with that 30% being consistent enough to be almost a dealbreaker. That's okay for personal docs. But for school and professional stuff needs to closer to 95%.

OO is good at managing larger docs with multiple styles, too. Until MSWord 2007 I'd say it was superior at doing so.

As far as GUI KOffice is my favorite because it balances the clean/bare style with customizability, the problem being that KOffice is bloated crash-prone KDE nonsense that has less functionality than any alternative short of a text editor. OpenOffice is crowded and MSOffice2003/7 is just stupid. I'd rather have a crowded interface where I can find things than an "elegant" one where I can't.

[garolou]

Solution for slow OpenOffice (OOo) Calc spreadsheets...

A somewhat large spreadsheet project in OOo became impossible to work with as it would take many minutes (5 to 10) to recalculate and getting worse.

The ironic solution was to save the spreadsheet in a MS excel format. Reopen it and save it again in OOo format... No more wait time!

The conversions probably got rid of some internal garbage that OpenOffice was not dealing with properly.

MS to the rescue of OOo! go figure!

[theDaveTheRave]

The biggest, biggest complaint is cross-platform compatibility. OpenOffice, MSOffice, KOffice and Acrobat don't play as nice as they should.....

The biggest problem is styles. Footnotes/endnotes, anchored/section-specific, headers and margins get bonkers between all of them. It's hard enough to format those just *inside* an office suite. But when I email and Oasis doc to someone who opens it in MSOffice and it goes bonkers, that's not okay. The work I do is serious. Appearances matter. I don't need it to look half-assed. Generally I rely on exporting to PDF but this sucks for collaboration...


I agree with the 'interoperability' thing.

If I create a document in OO then 'export it to ms format' when someone then opens it in MSOffice the formating is just all different.

From what I can tell this is due to the way that MSoffice has defaults for margins and tab spacing. If you don't use a specific 'style' and then send this 'style' format to your recipient it all goes horribly wrong - even if you do use specific style you then need to convert it to an 'ms style' and tell your msoffice colleague to link your document to this style.

My solution, much like nathan28's, is to export to pdf. Then send a copy of both documents. You then need to state to the other person that

the pdf document is in the format I have created, if you want to change anything change the attached .doc file and send it back, and I'll add it into my document. But remember your .doc will most likely NOT look the same as the pdf - this is due to your version of msoffice and mine having different default values


Ultimately, at some point in the dim and distant future, all documents will be created and saved in some sort of 'xml' format. and each will create its own linked style sheet. Much like creating a web page. Then the standard will be to save all docs in this .xml method - something which is available now in all office suites. And it will work for spreadsheets, word processed, and presentation software.

Impress is also a pain to use. If you attempt to get things to 'appear on clicks' you are forced to be really careful to ensure that you have them in the correct order, something power point seems to manage seamlessly, but impress just manages to fail at - the ultimate solution is to create a 5 or 6 pages all the same, adding in the different bits on each next page - however this really messes up the 'auto page numbering' facility.

David

[r.peel]

Microsoft made a big mistake when it redesigned its Office GUI to match the VISTA GUI. And eliminating features that users were used to was definitely not the way to go.

Why pay for an inferior product when you can use a feature rich free tool?

I'm sorry but this is purely opinion, and probably idealism.

The interface in Office 2007 as much easier and intuitive to use than 2003, yes they moved / disabled some features (most disabled features can actually be found in the advanced tab)

Also the UI in OO.o (and unfortunately many Linux apps) looks amaturish and incomplete compared to the Windows alternatives, in my opinion, and I hate the new Microsoft UI (Presentation Framework?) in fact that and the dumbing down of Windows 7 is why I've switched to Ubunutu.

[WinterMadness]

I think that we should really dedicate time to getting OO to be one par with ms office, and perhaps innovate in the process.

OO is pretty bad unless youre doing very basic things (luckily i am most of the time)

[alaukikyo]

OO is pretty bad unless youre doing very basic things (luckily i am most of the time)
WTF
if you can't mention proper reasons don't post bs

[WinterMadness]

the reasons are pretty common, it doesnt have much of the features office has, and what it does have is bleh in comparison

youve probably heard this debate a hundred times before.

[Shining Arcanine]

WTF
if you can't mention proper reasons don't post bs
How about this? There is no built-in grammar checker and the production of lists requires that you take your hands off your keyboard to change indentation while Microsoft Office simply allows you to use Tab and Enter to change indentation.

With that said, I do not think most of the Open Office zealots here have ever seriously used Microsoft Office to have a sense of why it makes people more productive.

[rg4w]

Microsoft made a big mistake when it redesigned its Office GUI to match the VISTA GUI.
In some respects it was the other way around:

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/jensenh/

That's the story of the radical shift that was the Office 12 design process. Love it or hate it, it wasn't arbitrary. On the contrary, it was one of the most significant UI research efforts ever undertaken for a commercial software product.

Personally I don't agree with all of the methodologies nor all the results, and I think it's reasonably fair to say that toward the end of the product cycle they got pressure to ship while still in a much less certain phase of the research.

Still, the scope of the effort was truly breathtaking, and the discipline of the team members involved admirable.

[alaukikyo]

How about this? There is no built-in grammar checker and the production of lists requires that you take your hands off your keyboard to change indentation while Microsoft Office simply allows you to use Tab and Enter to change indentation.

http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/en/project/after-the-deadline
http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/project/languagetool
installing the extension once is not at all a hassle and not a great reason to ditch OOo and use ms office.

also i am not sure what type of indentation you are talking about?
(should pressing tab give some space?)


With that said, I do not think most of the Open Office zealots here have ever seriously used Microsoft Office to have a sense of why it makes people more productive.

i prefer OOo over ms-office
I have used both ms office 2003 and 2007 extensively and ms2007's interface sucks and is locked and i hate it and having no support for .docx (as in 2003 without the extension) is better than having some(more than some actually) so i usually carry OOo portable in my pen-drive.

[Shining Arcanine]

http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/en/project/after-the-deadline
http://extensions.services.openoffice.org/project/languagetool
installing the extension once is not at all a hassle and not a great reason to ditch OOo and use ms office.

also i am not sure what type of indentation you are talking about?
(should pressing tab give some space?)

It should be built-in. It is such an essential feature that having users hunt for it is a big problem.

As for indentation, tab moves the list item to the right while enter moves the list item to the left.


i prefer OOo over ms-office
I have used both ms office 2003 and 2007 extensively and ms2007's interface sucks and is locked and i hate it and having no support for .docx (as in 2003 without the extension) is better than having some(more than some actually) so i usually carry OOo portable in my pen-drive.

Then I can go on about graphing. I wanted to make a histogram recently, I asked about it and was told that it was possible, but I had to use some extremely esoteric feature to do it that would take more than an hour to learn. With the GUI in Microsoft Office, I can have a working histogram in 5 clicks. Say what you want about the GUI, but the number of clicks needed to do things are far higher in Open Office than they are in Microsoft Office and that is what counts.

[alaukikyo]

It should be built-in. It is such an essential feature that having users hunt for it is a big problem.

As for indentation, tab moves the list item to the right while enter moves the list item to the left.

tab moves the list item to the right but enter takes it to the next line.
i didn't know this feature existed in word.
will try it soon


Then I can go on about graphing. I wanted to make a histogram recently, I asked about it and was told that it was possible, but I had to use some extremely esoteric feature to do it that would take more than an hour to learn. With the GUI in Microsoft Office, I can have a working histogram in 5 clicks. Say what you want about the GUI, but the number of clicks needed to do things are far higher in Open Office than they are in Microsoft Office and that is what counts.

http://www.comfsm.fm/~dleeling/statistics/notes002.html#createchart

judge for yourself
contains instructions for OOo,ms2003 and ms 2007

[Shining Arcanine]

I just tried writing a business letter in Open Office. When I paste things into it, it does not give me an option to paste without the existing formatting, which takes several clicks to correct, assuming I do not use key strokes to seek for the purpose of saving time. If I delete text using backspace and undo the action, Open Office requires that I undo the deletion for each individual character, while Microsoft Office recognizes adjacent characters that were deleted in sequence as a single deletion, which is a major time saver in practice.

In theory, the two can do the same things, but I find that doing the same things in Open Office requires more time and effort than Microsoft Office requires. It would go a long way in terms of usability if Open Office would fix these issues.

[WinterMadness]

open office could definitely use a more intuitive feel to it.

[alaukikyo]

http://www.comfsm.fm/~dleeling/statistics/notes002.html#createchart

judge for yourself
contains instructions for OOo,ms2003 and ms 2007

so i assume you were just spreading fud with your histogram experience

[lancest]

Just finished a couple of important documents in OO Writer.
Quite happy with it's performance- using tables for instance.

Took a look at my work in Office 2003 just for kicks.
Word seemed unfamiliar and outdated.
(Non-transparent black highlighting for instance-ugh!)

I'd truly hate being forced to use MS Office for anything major.

[marl30]

Just finished a couple of important documents in OO Writer.
Quite happy with it's performance- using tables for instance.

Took a look at my work in Office 2003 just for kicks.
Word seemed unfamiliar and outdated.
(Non-transparent black highlighting for instance-ugh!)

I'd truly hate being forced to use MS Office for anything major.
Is it true that GO-OO, the other fork of Openoffice, offers better compatibility with MS formats? What about Symphony and Koffice? I know this thread is mainly dealing Openoffice, but I'd like to know about the other MS alternatives if they offer better support than OOO?

[lancest]

I think Ubuntu's version of Open Office is as close as you will get. For most of what I do it's fine.
Follow this: http://news.cnet.com/8301-13880_3-9864262-68.html

Usually helpful, but not a 100% guarantee of compatibility.
I've accepted that MS wants it that way.

Symphony is based on OO so about the same.
There is a proprietary office suite out there that claims to be better than OO. Can't think of it.

As you get experience with OO/Libre you may find ways to get around using MS Office. I certainly have. No Windows needed here.

[CodingBeaver]

Honestly, MS Office 2007 (and 2010 is even better) is way better than OOo as far as user experience is concerned. A simple example, how many steps or clicks does it take to add a 10X8 table in a text document in OOo? Then try adding the same table in a Word document in MS Office 2007 or 2010 and you will see how simple and easy it is. The ribbon in MS Office is very powerful. In order for OOo to compete with MS Office, the UI needs to be re-designed

[alaukikyo]

Honestly, MS Office 2007 (and 2010 is even better) is way better than OOo as far as user experience is concerned. A simple example, how many steps or clicks does it take to add a 10X8 table in a text document in OOo? Then try adding the same table in a Word document in MS Office 2007 or 2010 and you will see how simple and easy it is. The ribbon in MS Office is very powerful. In order for OOo to compete with MS Office, the UI needs to be re-designed

classic example of fud
ribbon is complicated and unintuitive

you just goto the table menu and click insert(or you can ctrl+f12) and type 8 and 10 in the box when presented and the table is made

[kaldor]

classic example of fud
ribbon is complicated and unintuitive

And your opinion isn't FUD? The ribbon in 2007 was alright, but in 2010 it works wonderfully. I need to use 2010 for some courses, and I don't hate using it at all. In fact, OpenOffice could learn from it.

That being said, I still use OpenOffice because I don't have Windows.

[CodingBeaver]

you just goto the table menu and click insert(or you can ctrl+f12) and type 8 and 10 in the box when presented and the table is made

That is my point. In MS Office 2007 or 2010, you don't need to type anything to add a table, it is drag and drop. User does not have to remember the hot keys to insert a table, or type in row and columns counts (for a table less than 10X8).

If you use a word processor application only occasionally, then use OOo, because it will meet your requirements and is free. But if you need to use word processor application frequently, MS Office definitely makes your life a lot easier. Those small things, such as adding a table quickly, changing paragraph and font quickly, and so on, will add up if you need to do it on a daily basis. In business environment, if two applications have the same or similar functionality, the one that is easy to use is usually got picked.

As far as the ribbon is concerned, it is NOT counter-intuitive. It is very intuitive, you just need to remember it is task oriented, not menu oriented.

[CodingBeaver]

classic example of fud


I have been using OOo since version 1.1, because I have a Linux box, and I consider myself knowledgeable enough on how to use OOo. OOo is powerful and can do pretty much everything you do in MS Office, but not as easy as MS Office. It is time for OOo to focus more on the usability in order to compete with MS Office, seriously.

[cyberphrog]

I use MS Office profusely at work, so I have to know it. My skills at OO are spotty at best, since I don't practice it at work. If OO was the preferred choice in the workplace, I'm sure I'd become more proficient at it.

[tgm4883]

Other. using OO.o 3.2 in 10.10

I created and worked on a document in open office for about 2 months. The file was saved in odf format. The document was about 30 pages. Starting at the top and holding the arrow down key, there were places in the document that I couldn't pass. These lines would be half-text (not on purpose, think of holding a piece of paper over the bottom half of a line). This was an issue as it screwed with formatting and made the document a pain to edit.

Oddly enough, that issue was fixed by saving the file as a .doc extension. That issue was no longer present, however I now had two new issues. The Table Of Contents at the top of this document would no longer would save it's formatting, and every reference in the document that linked to another page would blank out after reopening. Every time I reopened the file I would have to fix the formatting and readd the reference points (I really only needed to do it before I printed/exported to PDF, but it's kinda a pain needing to keep a separate text file saying where all of the fixes need to be)

I finally took this document and loaded it into office 2007. I saved fixed the formatting and references and saved the document as a docx extension. Since then I haven't had to fix any issues with the document. I can still export to PDF. I've lost zero functionality but I have gained not having a broken document that requires fixes before release.

So I would like to use OO.o (after all, I was making a training document for our Linux product at work), but issues like the ones above keep me from doing so.

[alaukikyo]

That is my point. In MS Office 2007 or 2010, you don't need to type anything to add a table, it is drag and drop. User does not have to remember the hot keys to insert a table, or type in row and columns counts (for a table less than 10X8).


just typing in the number of rows and columns is pretty easy

[CodingBeaver]

Don't get me wrong. I am not against OOo at all. I admire those guys who developed such powerful software as OOo and give it to public for free. However, it is time for change, as far as how to make it even easier to use.

If you are using MS Office 2007, then you will find there are not many new features added in 2010, but 2010 is much easier to use than 2007, the main reason behind is to improve the user's efficiency.

[CodingBeaver]

just typing in the number of rows and columns is pretty easy

It's easy but tedious, especially if you need to work on a word document that needs to insert many tables, in that case, I prefer just drop and drop the table into my word document. It will be more tedious if you have to work on this kind of word documents day in and day out.

Besides, it is just one small thing I listed, there are many of those small things and they will add up if you have to deal with them daily.

[dmizer]

I urge all of you who are complaing about problems with Openoffice to take some time to look for a solution before turning to MS Office. For every single issue I've run into (including compatibility issues with MS Office), I have found a solution.

This has solved the most problems: http://www.oooninja.com/2008/12/better-office-docx-converter.html

Our entire company relies on Openoffice and does not have a single MS Office installation. That's over 1000 workstations. Most of the employees don't even realize they are not using MS Office. We have very few issues with it.

[uRock]

There is also help to be found at OpenOffice's forums. Link is in my signature.

[lancest]

Just Google: "hate office 2007 ribbon"

A mere 25,400,000 results!

[CodingBeaver]

Just Google: "hate office 2007 ribbon"

A mere 25,400,000 results!

And they are two or three years old. MS Office 2010 ribbon improves a lot. The ribbon was introduced in Office 2007, that is why so many people, including me, complained about it, because they are not used to a big change like this. But IMHO, the change turned out to be a good one. It is time for OOo to make some changes, the UI-wise.

[lancest]

It is time for OOo to make some changes, the UI-wise.


All software should be continually improved. So in that I agree.

If you know shortcut keys though the interface is less important.

MS Office had better jump on Android phones.

[uRock]

All software should be continually improved. So in that I agree.

If you know shortcut keys though the interface is less important.

MS Office had better jump on Android phones.
You'll have to get the MS phones for that. I am sure that you know Androids are powered by Linux.

[lancest]

Yes I know. And I really could care since- I don't use MS Office.

Just pointing out what I consider to be a weakness for MS.

Android (Soon to be?) the world's preeminent mobile platform doesn't run MS Office.

[tgm4883]

Just Google: "hate office 2007 ribbon"

A mere 25,400,000 results!

That means absolutely nothing for so many reasons, but I'll just list the funniest.

I did exactly what you said and it only listed 808 results. See screenshot

[lancest]

"hate office 2007 ribbon"
About 25,400,000 results (0.08 seconds)
That's what I get right now. Take it or leave it.

[Finalfantasykid]

25,500,000 without quotes
794 with quotes

For comparison:

The search "Hate Open Office" gets:

6,930,000 without quotes
11,200 with quotes

[lancest]

Interesting.

Open Office just like any other software, can always be improved. Works fine for me.

Anyway I think I've proven that a lot of people aren't interested in having the MS Office ribbon interface forced upon them.

Start reading those links and you see some good reasons why. MS power users included.

Everything is subject to personal opinion i realize.

[tgm4883]

Interesting.

Open Office just like any other software, can always be improved. Works fine for me.

Anyway I think I've proven that a lot of people aren't interested in having the MS Office ribbon interface forced upon them.

Start reading those links and you see some good reasons why. MS power users included.

Everything is subject to personal opinion i realize.

and "love office 2007 ribbon" (without quotes) gets 472,000,000 results

So I guess if you want to play by your rules, 94% of people love the ribbon in office 2007 vs 6% how hate it.

So by your standards, the office 2007 ribbon was an outstanding success! I forget, what was your point again?

[uRock]

and "love office 2007 ribbon" (without quotes) gets 472,000,000 results

so i guess if you want to play by your rules, 94% of people love the ribbon in office 2007 vs 6% how hate it.

So by your standards, the office 2007 ribbon was an outstanding success! I forget, what was your point again?
:ks

[dmizer]

How much one likes the UI is mostly subjective anyway. That doesn't mean it can't be improved upon, or shouldn't change, it just means that everyone brings different experiences to the table with regard to how they feel about a UI.

I find the ribbon interface to be an extreme pain to use. I can't find anything. Any time I want to do something I have to either spend 5 minutes clicking on things until I find it, or google for the answer.

But I'm very used to Openoffice because I use it more.

[lancest]

You'll never get me to believe MS Office 2007 is liked in those numbers.
Especially since most of the world is still using older editions.
Give it up.

[uRock]

You'll never get me to believe MS Office 2007 is liked in those numbers.
Especially since most of the world is still using older editions.
Give it up.
Outside of these forums I have not heard anyone complain about MS Office 2007.

[alaukikyo]

and "love office 2007 ribbon" (without quotes) gets 472,000,000 results

So I guess if you want to play by your rules, 94% of people love the ribbon in office 2007 vs 6% how hate it.

So by your standards, the office 2007 ribbon was an outstanding success! I forget, what was your point again?

Reaction to interface
The Ribbon interface of Microsoft Office has had mixed reactions. Redmondmag.com reported that power users feel the ribbons take "too much time and patience to learn."Richard Ericson from Computerworld noted that experienced users might find difficulties adapting to the new interface, and that some tasks take more key-presses or clicks to activate.Though the ribbon can be hidden by double-clicking on the open tab, PC World wrote that the ribbon interface crowds the Office work area, especially for notebook users. Others have called its large icons distracting. An online survey conducted by ExcelUser reports that about 80% of respondents had a negative opinion of the change, and within that 80%, the self-estimated reduction in productivity was "about 35%".


and number of results in google is one of the most useless ways to rate usability

[tgm4883]

and number of results in google is one of the most useless ways to rate usability

Thats what I have been saying the entire time.

[Shining Arcanine]

so i assume you were just spreading fud with your histogram experience

I assume that you are addressing me. I use software on an as needed basis. If I do not need to do something, I do not bother to do it. When I need to do something, some times I try doing it in a new way to see if I can find a better way to do it. I am too busy to do anything else.

You might want avoid interpreting a non-response as having meaning in the future. While I would have probably posted here about my experience in a few months when I need to make a histogram again, I am not as inclined to do it now than I was after I saw your post.

P.S. I do C++ programming, so I rarely have a need for Office software. Much of the material that I type goes either into vim, irssi or chromium. I am not the typical PC user whose life revolves around simple things like word processing.

[Shining Arcanine]

I have been using OOo since version 1.1, because I have a Linux box, and I consider myself knowledgeable enough on how to use OOo. OOo is powerful and can do pretty much everything you do in MS Office, but not as easy as MS Office. It is time for OOo to focus more on the usability in order to compete with MS Office, seriously.

I think that is the point that everyone who says that Microsoft Office is better than its competitors say. Some people do not seem to comprehend the difference between having a feature present and having implemented it well. Being able to check a box saying that you have some feature is simply not good enough.

Having used plenty of alternative software (e.g. Safari, Amarok, etcetera), I can say that they all seem to subscribe to this mentality. Firefox was the first open source GUI application that understood the difference between having a feature implemented and having implemented a feature well, which made it a tremendous success. If it had been designed like Konqueror, which is designed horribly from a usability standpoint, it would have been a failure. Nearly all free GUI software for X11 focuses on having massive feature sets, but little attention is spent on making certain that those feature sets are implemented well.

[lancest]

and number of results in google is one of the most useless ways to rate usability

Not really to rate usability itself (matter of opinion) but to show that the MS Office ribbon has been controversial since it's inception.

It's been all over the internet since 2007. Many people are still angry at Microsoft for eliminating the traditional menus in Word 2007.

and number of results in google is one of the most useless ways to rate usability

Quoting Wikipedia isn't a good way to refute Google search results.
Although I certainly agree with what's said about MS Office in there, you often hear people saying Wikipedia is a joke. I personally don't think so- but just for the sake of argument.

[gerowen]

Outside of these forums I have not heard anyone complain about MS Office 2007.

I work on a corporate network where the majority of the people I support are the epitome of the "end-user". On this network there are a variety of computers running various versions of Windows and MS Office, all built to peform specific tasks. I get complaints on a daily basis about Excel's local settings becoming corrupt and causing it to not have any toolbars, or to not open any spreadsheets until we delete the appropriate files in ~AppData for that particular user. On top of that, they change their file format with each version to prevent inter-operability with other software, even their own without additional patches for the older versions. I get asked all the time why somebody can't open a .xlsx file on their computer that has Office 2k3 on it. If you are on a network where everybody is using the same version of Windows and the same version of Office and you have no intention of ever upgrading, it might be a decent solution.

[marl30]

I don't know about anybody else, but I can't live without Ms Office 2007 or Openoffice. I've been using Openoffice for 3 or 4yrs now, and since I've found it, whenever I'm creating documents I always use it alongside Office 2007. So, I wouldn't get in a debate about which is crap and which is not. They are both excellent softwares. They have their pros and cons; and this is why I ended up using both together as what I don't like in one I turn to the other for. The same for features too. I love the Ribbon interface in Office 2007. It doesn't take away from its fuctionality. Both softwares have been working flawlessly for me. And OOO is my favourite when it comes to creating PDF. For grammar checking, I use both. Office 2007 is able to pickup some errors that the plugins (After the Deadline/Language Tool) are not able to, while vice versa... the OOO grammar checker will pick up improper sentence structure in cases where Office 2007 is not able. For me, I love them both. They work in harmony to make my life better.

[theDaveTheRave]

I don't know about anybody else, but I can't live without Ms Office 2007 or Openoffice. I've been using Openoffice for 3 or 4yrs now, and since I've found it, whenever I'm creating documents I always use it alongside Office 2007. So, I wouldn't get in a debate about which is crap and which is not. They are both excellent softwares. They have their pros and cons; and this is why I ended up using both together as what I don't like in one I turn to the other for. The same for features too. I love the Ribbon interface in Office 2007. It doesn't take away from its fuctionality. Both softwares have been working flawlessly for me. And OOO is my favourite when it comes to creating PDF. For grammar checking, I use both. Office 2007 is able to pickup some errors that the plugins (After the Deadline/Language Tool) are not able to, while vice versa... the OOO grammar checker will pick up improper sentence structure in cases where Office 2007 is not able. For me, I love them both. They work in harmony to make my life better.

What seems like the first sensible answer.

Personally I had never contemplated using both, but now in consideration I used to do so where I worked a while back. OO.o for my linux laptop at home, and MSoffice at the office. The combination of the did have some appeal.

The major downside was the formating. The only way to ensure that whoever you sent the document to saw what you had produced in the format you desired was to export it too PDF. It took a long time for me to find the same function in MSoffice.

Personally if I had my way I would end up writing all my documents using some form of markup (html css style).

What is great about OO.o and MSoffice is how they have attempted to integrate all the 'normal' productivity that is required into a single unit.

I doubt anyone would now appreciate the difficulty involved in trying to import an XL-type pie chart into a Word processing package before this integration came about.

My personal favorite is to struggle using Latex. It can give great results, but is a horrid learning curve.

David

[jrothwell97]

Not really to rate usability itself (matter of opinion) but to show that the MS Office ribbon has been controversial since it's inception.

It's been all over the internet since 2007. Many people are still angry at Microsoft for eliminating the traditional menus in Word 2007.

Two (albeit late) thoughts.

People don't like change, no matter if it's for better or for worse. Many people are still furious about Ubuntu having moved the window controls to the left by default. (It'll die down in time, as will the ribbon-hate as people learn to live with the new UI.)

Does the fact MS eliminated the menus in the first place indicate that there was a reason for doing so? Namely, that the menu system was becoming so cluttered, inconsistent and incomprehensible that a new UI was needed?

Decisions on UI changes like this aren't taken lightly, nor as a "shiny" that exists as a carrot to pull people into upgrading: as mentioned, people don't like change, and IT departments would almost certainly baulk at the cost of retraining their users.

The Ribbon is there because MS realised that the toolbar and menu system was unsustainable, and difficult to learn. Changing it to the ribbon annoys people who've already invested time in learning the menu system, but it becomes a good trade-off when you consider the tangible usability advantages (commands exposed to the user, context-awareness etc) and the lesser learning curve when training up completely new users.

[robsoles]

1) The GM and the EE at my work are both in Ubuntu 10.04, for their desktops, using OpenOffice from repository and managing 'business as usual' without referring to MS Office - they have VMs for some windows based CRM software they became dependent on years ago but no version of MS Office whatsoever has been installed.

2) The Google results for "Office 2007 Ribbon Tool Bar" will be riddled with more people saying they can't operate it comfortably (or at least 'problem problem') rather than people saying "Oh, it's wonderful" - This is due to a human condition: We complain a lot more than we praise, ever.

3) The people who are still using Windows based work stations at my work give me more to do than the GM and the EE, but their PCs don't have MS Office whatsoever at all either. All of our Domain and other services have been by Ubuntu Server Ed and Samba for just over a year.

[CodingBeaver]

Two (albeit late) thoughts.


People don't like change, no matter if it's for better or for worse. Many people are still furious about Ubuntu having moved the window controls to the left by default. (It'll die down in time, as will the ribbon-hate as people learn to live with the new UI.)

Does the fact MS eliminated the menus in the first place indicate that there was a reason for doing so? Namely, that the menu system was becoming so cluttered, inconsistent and incomprehensible that a new UI was needed?

Decisions on UI changes like this aren't taken lightly, nor as a "shiny" that exists as a carrot to pull people into upgrading: as mentioned, people don't like change, and IT departments would almost certainly baulk at the cost of retraining their users.

The Ribbon is there because MS realised that the toolbar and menu system was unsustainable, and difficult to learn. Changing it to the ribbon annoys people who've already invested time in learning the menu system, but it becomes a good trade-off when you consider the tangible usability advantages (commands exposed to the user, context-awareness etc) and the lesser learning curve when training up completely new users.


Totally agree. Microsoft spent tons of money on changing the UI for Office, there is a good reason behind it. I agree that some part of the Ribbon in Office 2007 is confusing, but in Office 2010, the Ribbon has been improved A LOT and is customizable. However, OOo's UI has not been changed much for a long time, and I don't think it is a good thing.