Graphics Card

[thunderduck3141]

what is the best opengl graphics card to date?

[leech]

I would suggest any nVidia card, especially the 6 or 7 series.

Leech

[vem0m]

i would have to reccomend a ATi x800-x1000 series they wipe out any card on the market both in performance and Reliability :)

[thunderduck3141]

i have heard that ati card tend to die early, but thank you for your suggestions

[vem0m]

u heard the lies that are spread by the nvidia community i have only used ATi since my first 3 video cards(Nvidia) died under stress and burned in wrong. Its a known fact that they(Nvidia) burn in wrong and burn out quick reducing the already reduced performance due to them burning in wrong or they just stop working as stated it happened 3/3 cards differant series and chips the latest series being the most recent 7 series. Also would like to point i have since used 2 ATi cards no problems with either under any kind of pressure i threw at it.

[jeffc313]

I suggest a GeForce 6 or 7 series. Their drivers>ATI's Drivers

[vem0m]

I suggest a GeForce 6 or 7 series. Their drivers>ATI's Drivers

funny thier performance still lacks Ati while drivers are not as developed as Nvidias, yet thier cards still do better then nvidias..... strange

so this doesn't turn into a controversial thing this is the last i will say

[thunderduck3141]

if what you say is true, then i will look into ati, i just dont want my card diminishing in proformance after 2 weeks

[ZylGadis]

I've never owned an ATI card, but the net is full of users cursing themselves for not doing research before buying one for their linux machine. Naturally, I won't ever buy ATI, either, unless there is decisive evidence in their favor - like opening their specs, for example. One user claiming no problems is not decisive evidence.

Edit: Forgot to mention - I'm a happy owner of NVidia Geforce 5200 and NVidia Geforce 6200 in one box.

[thunderduck3141]

one more question then im done, are there any 64 bit (intel/amd i dont care) boards that support agp?

[merkur2k]

I find it amusing that this instantly turned into a "my video card's manufacturer can beat up yours" FUD slinging contest. Truth is, there are hardware failures on both sides of the camp. You may even have experienced one. But thats only a few cases in a large sea of perfectly functioning units. Of course its only the complainers that tend to voice their opinions the loudest, so thats what you hear and remember.
But as suggested, do any sort of searching at all on the internet about this and youll see that ATI cards are a pain to setup in linux and deliver lackluster performance. But its a driver issue, not hardware, since they work just fine in windows.
I myself am an ATI person (radeon X800GTO), and even went through the pain of setting it up properly in linux. But I still play my games in windows because the performance just isnt there.
There was an article on slashdot today that did a great job of explaining where the problem is, and that ATI is finally making a serious effort at fixing it. So hopefully soon it wont be an issue much longer, but for now go with nvidia for gaming in linux if you value your sanity.

[vem0m]

funny a pain to setup? i can set it up using a guide here on the forums in less then 5 minutes time i have done it thu 6 kernel upgrades totaling 2 computers and 10 times installed its quick easy and performance is awesome

[doomstone]

I have always had Geforce and i will always have geforce.
I have never tryed that a geforce burned out. i normaly have my gfx cards 2 years before i change them.

But some of my friends have ATI one of them always complains about his ati card, the other one would marrie it if he could.

What i'm trying to say is that both are good high end gfx cards. The only thing you have to ask you self am i a Nvidia person or a ATI?

The battle between ATI and Nvdia is the same as between MS and Linux. ATI users say that NVIDIA sux, and NVIDIA users say that ATI sux.

The only thing i can adwice you is, do not buy discount gfx cards.
I have always used ASUS geforce, and they have always worked.

[Lord Illidan]

If what you say is true...than why are there so many people reporting problems with their ATI card? As for FUD about cards...you seem to have spouted more about NVIDIA cards yourself.

As for performance differences, nearly every native game you will find on Linux is nvidia-optimised, like UT 2004, for example.

[merkur2k]

Well I suppose it really depends how you use the card and what games you play. Most of the linux native games seem to play ok, but you will hate life if you try using cedega on an ATI card.
The games I play in windows on the same exact machine run just fine, but in cedega its a slideshow of mangled graphics.
Even the cedega documentation warns of this.

[vem0m]

If what you say is true...than why are there so many people reporting problems with their ATI card? As for FUD about cards...you seem to have spouted more about NVIDIA cards yourself.

As for performance differences, nearly every native game you will find on Linux is nvidia-optimised, like UT 2004, for example.

no its nvidia sposored hoping they will up thier sales nothing about it is Nvidia optimized i use Ati with great results

Well I suppose it really depends how you use the card and what games you play. Most of the linux native games seem to play ok, but you will hate life if you try using cedega on an ATI card.
The games I play in windows on the same exact machine run just fine, but in cedega its a slideshow of mangled graphics.
Even the cedega documentation warns of this.

I use cedega just fine with ATi no problems once again same FPS as i would get in windows with the same game

[thunderduck3141]

ven0m, not to be rude, but i think you might be a teenee tiny bit byass *cough*avatar*cough*
thing is, i have a nvidia geforce fx 5700 LE and a amd 3000+ with an Asus X-series mobo, and i want to uprgade to 64 bit but that looks like it will cost me an arm and a leg
new prossecor new mobo and new gfx card (idk of any 64 bit mobos that support agp AND pci-express)
and suggestions on that end would be helpful :)

[Lord Illidan]

On Slashdot, and every linux forum on the web, everyone is posting problems with ATI cards. And then you come up and say everything works fine, the problem is that NVIDIA is spreading FUD?

Come on....

[white]

If your looking for best bang for your buck / current generation of PCI-E cards, the 7600gt and x1600xt are what you should be looking at.

If you plain want to go all out, get a 7900gt/gtx or an x1900xt/xtx.

The Ati driver setup was really a p.i.t.a for me since I basically borked the install from the begiinning. But when I reinstalled Ubuntu, I compiled my own Ati drivers in under 5 minutes very simply. If I only knew before I could have saved myself hours of @#$%^! :)

[vem0m]

not being biased being thruthful major differance nvidia community and the linux community are filling ppls heads with lies ATi works GREAT and drivers are caomparable with thier windows counterparts. I am tired of the rumors/lies surounding Ati. Nothing is wrong with thier cards nor driver its just nvidia wants to spread the crap that is soon picked up by the linux community, then spread it needs to stop i have this avatar to show ATi pride and support for the ATi company as anyone in their right mind should seeing all the lies and misinformation surrounding ATi. ATi is very misconcevied u look futher u see they are just as easy to install drivers for and are worth it for the performance they offer.

[merkur2k]

thunderduck, check into the Asrock Sata II Dual (or something similar), its the board I have, has agp and pci-e.
ATI vs Nvidia is like Ford vs Chevy or any other holy war that has ever existed. Neither one really has a major advantage over the other, but from time to time one or the other is going to offer the better product. If the widespread reports of one or the other being complete trash were true, then they would quickly lose market status and fade away, not remain in the fight for the top 2.
It is however common knowledge that *right now* ATI's linux drivers are sub-par. fglrx performance in particular is very low.

[vem0m]

It is however common knowledge that *right now* ATI's linux drivers are sub-par. fglrx performance in particular is very low.

that is one of the most common LIES spread by the nvidia community to gain the lead in the linux market place they work with comparable results to thier windows counterparts just like any drive if installed right then it will work great anybody saying other wise is either a Nvidia nut or a person who couldnt install/install the drivers right(which for either company is easy to do) this type of mis information needs to stop

[leech]

ven0m, not to be rude, but i think you might be a teenee tiny bit byass *cough*avatar*cough*
thing is, i have a nvidia geforce fx 5700 LE and a amd 3000+ with an Asus X-series mobo, and i want to uprgade to 64 bit but that looks like it will cost me an arm and a leg
new prossecor new mobo and new gfx card (idk of any 64 bit mobos that support agp AND pci-express)
and suggestions on that end would be helpful :)

I have a MSI K8N-Neo2 Platinum that is a Socket 939 AMD64 that has AGP. It's been running pretty well, though I miss Asus. The reason I got this board was that at the time PCI-Express wasn't really out there, and Asus didn't have any nforce3 boards.

The newer Bios for it supports the Dual-Core processors as well!

Leech

[leech]

that is one of the most common LIES spread by the nvidia community to gain the lead in the linux market place they work with comparable results to thier windows counterparts just like any drive if installed right then it will work great anybody saying other wise is either a Nvidia nut or a person who couldnt install/install the drivers right(which for either company is easy to do) this type of mis information needs to stop

I will put this crap to rest once and for all.

It is a very known thing that there is a major difference in their goals. ATI excels in great DirectX performance and nVidia excels in great OpenGL performance. That is more than likely the main reason why nVidia's drivers are better under Linux, if nothing else.

Look for instance even under Windows on the performance difference for Doom3, or other OpenGL based games.

Venom, you can go touting that there are hardware failures, or that the drivers for ATI are just as easy to install, etc. I know they're easy to install, I've installed them on a laptop before and they worked flawlessly (at least as far as I had tested them) but there are certainly a lot more people that post they are having problems with ATI cards, which is why I made the suggestion for a nVidia card. I have ran every brand of card known to man at one point or another, and I would definitely suggest against S3, or even Matrox, though I loved Matrox cards for a long time, they simply are either not powerful enough or have crap linux drivers.

nVidia's are what most professional 3D animators use under linux, plain and simple. Because they are fantastic at OpenGL. It's simply a case of optimizing for that API over Microsoft's API.

Again to re-iterate, nVidia = OpenGL and ATI = DirectX. Look at the performance also of Half-Life. While it runs great on both, it runs a bit better on ATI hardware, because it is a DirectX game.

Thank you and good night.

Leech

[vem0m]

ok my last word of input none excell in either more then the other they work equally well to a point the burn-in ATi does just as well if not better then Nvidia at OpenGL i know i have run test after test after test ATi toped on some Nvidia Topped on some same with directX it drivers for both are well designed and great and easy to use the ppl that report problems with Ati didn't follow whatever guide they were reading right orrrr they just used the wrong guide the drivers and cards are about the same and the lies around ATi need to end LAST word

[merkur2k]

venom, im not sure if ati is paying you or what, but damn, how do you get through life with such tunnel vision...
try reading this:
http://linux.slashdot.org/linux/06/07/20/1433230.shtml
or this:
http://www.transgaming.com/cedega_faq.php#6
those are not lies, those are facts.
I love my ATI card in windows, but now I really wish I would have gone nvidia so that i could complete my switch to linux.
If we are to believe that you are indeed experiencing no problems as you say, then I am very happy for you, but you are most certainly in the minority rather than the majority.

[vem0m]

i get paid in chocolate cookies :D they r yum

[Carrots171]

ATi's drivers for Linux used to be subpar. They've improved a lot recently, but I'd still recommend Nvidia because of the performance on Linux. Quoting the Phoronix blog on the state of ATI Linux drivers:
...if ATI wishes to deliver a serious blow to NVIDIA, they must improve their fglrx frame-rate performance as it is the area where most gamers are concerned.

Other Areas: If you're going to overclock your card/unlock pipelines on your graphics card using Linux, Nvidia is a better choice. There are simply more tools that are more capable available.

[handy]

ven0m, not to be rude, but i think you might be a teenee tiny bit byass *cough*avatar*cough*
thing is, i have a nvidia geforce fx 5700 LE and a amd 3000+ with an Asus X-series mobo, and i want to uprgade to 64 bit but that looks like it will cost me an arm and a leg
new prossecor new mobo and new gfx card (idk of any 64 bit mobos that support agp AND pci-express)
and suggestions on that end would be helpful :)

You may find Tom's Hardware Guide (http://www.tomshardware.com/) helpful?

My rig sets up beautifully with both Breezy 64/32, & Dapper 32 (I found no benefit of 64bit in Breezy, & LOTS of disadvantages...)

My system spec's are in my signature below.

Have fun... :KS

[EDIT:]

I just checked the link to Tom's & noticed that they did a comparison on ATI & nVidia (http://www.tomshardware.com/2006/07/12/geforce_and_radeon_take_on_linux/) Graphics Cards on linux. It's worth a read, the bottom line is they both work, but nVidia works better at this stage.

[handy]

I found reading Msg:62 & Msg:64 by Mitch074 in a forum at Tom's, very informative re: nVidia's drivers & the nVidia association with commercial graphic's 3D workstations that run on Linux, using OpenGL software.

Look well down this page (http://forumz.tomshardware.com/hardware/GeForce-Radeon-Linuxftopic-191186-days0-orderasc-50.html) if you are interested?

Quite an eye opener really!

[Bokonon]

I am not trying to start a flame war, but I am sure this will become one with or without my comments.

I have owned both and recommend nVidia. The only time ATI was better is when they had the inside scoop on DX9 and nVidia flopped with the FX series.

nVidia has the best card out there right now in the 7950X2 and they also have a better overall offering for a broad range of users. Add to that the fact that there are more nVidia users--especially linux users--and I think the choice is clear.

If you want to install something or change a configuration, you are more likely to find a good how-to if you own an nVidia card. If you like bashing your head against a screen after hours of trying to go it on your own with sketchy help, go ATI. I have been down that road and don't plan on taking it again. :-D

[mattisking]

Hey guys. Let's keep it nice in here.

These kinds of questions always get people arguing pretty passionately on both sides. Both card makers are hard to go wrong with. I think the original question, however, has been answered. Let's tone it down a bit.

[leech]

ok my last word of input none excell in either more then the other they work equally well to a point the burn-in ATi does just as well if not better then Nvidia at OpenGL i know i have run test after test after test ATi toped on some Nvidia Topped on some same with directX it drivers for both are well designed and great and easy to use the ppl that report problems with Ati didn't follow whatever guide they were reading right orrrr they just used the wrong guide the drivers and cards are about the same and the lies around ATi need to end LAST word

And yes, I'll agree that the cards will perform individually on different games, regardless of API, but let's step away from game performance for a moment. Try anything that is OpenGL on Linux like Maya or other professional software. If it even works on ATI hardware, it probably won't perform as well. Of course there are always exceptions, but kind of my point is that unless optimized for specific applications, ATI's OpenGL pretty much stinks. nVidia was basically the first graphics company that wasn't tied in heavily with SGI that supported OpenGL. At least out of what used to be the major competitors. Sadly now all we really have are the two Giants with ATI and nVidia. I am NOT an nVidia fan, it just simply is the best card out there for Linux right now.

You could always go with Matrox, but as I stated before their linux support for their newer cards (which really came out years and years ago) pretty much stinks. I wanted to stay with my Parhelia badly, but it just wasn't working in Linux worth a crap (though it did play Neverwinter Nights... hmmmm triple-head Neverwinter Nights.... damn I miss that). So I sold my third monitor and bought a Geforce 6800GT and haven't looked back. Best linux purchase I've ever made. And it plays games quite nicely in windows.

Intel cards, if they supported more features and were overall better performers would be really great for linux as well, since they are open sourced. Otherwise it's pretty slim pickings.

I really try to stay out of this type of topic, all the original poster wanted was a suggestion for a video card, and that's what I provided. I chose nVidia based on personal experience and by the number of posts in various linux forums about how many people have problems with installing the fglrx drivers.

I myself have installed them as stated before on a Dell laptop and they worked just fine, at least as far as getting Accelerated OpenGL, but then I'm not your average user either. I've been using Linux for almost as long as Win9x has been out.

Anyhow, I guess one of the things that may put ATI ahead of nVidia is if they release a driver that supports the glx extension that XGL/Compiz and AIGLX requires before nVidia can. That may give them a boost in popularity.

Another thing that makes nVidia a better choice under linux is the unified driver architecture that they use. Otherwise, the driver in Windows will have the same capabilities as the one for Linux. Well at least in theory, of course in practice, since DirectX isn't on anything but MS OSs, it doesn't support that. But does have openGL 2.x, GLSL, etc.

Leech

[vem0m]

as i siad i have done many comparisons as well they were about the same there was no real better cept for nvidia lack of the ability to burn-in right

[xeta]

Heres my two scoops:

In linux, none of my ATI cards worked for 3d games. (Probably due to my own fault of not installing the right drivers etc). No matter how hard I tried, I couldn't get it to work.

My next card was an Nvidia based card and linux loved it. No messy driver installations, it just worked out of the box.

I'm not saying one of them is better than the other, I'm just posting my experience and hope that helps you.

[leech]

as i siad i have done many comparisons as well they were about the same there was no real better cept for nvidia lack of the ability to burn-in right

Sadly, you can't blame nVidia for bad burn-in, since they only sell reference designs that other manufacturers change. There really is no such thing as an nVidia card, they just make the chipsets and reference cards. Matrox always made and sold their own cards, and ATI for the most part did too, but started doing it the nVidia way and now sells to other manufacturers as well.

Sadly, name brands actually do matter in the computer industry.

I have an EVGA 6800GT, and I've had it since October of 2004, it's still running like a champ in my system.

A card going bad could be really anything, not just burn-in (which the burn-in period only lasts 24 hours, after that if something burns it up, it's not because of bad design, it's because of something else (bad power supply, either the PSU itself, or bad power being supplied to the card via the AGP/PCI-E bus).

Leech