SymphonyOS Talk

[Adamant1988]

Has anyone here looked up symphony os? they use this mezzo desktop thing and I LOVE the way it looks...

"/me wishes ubuntu had something like that"

http://www.symphonyos.com

[aysiu]

I used Symphony when it was Alpha, and I was unimpressed. The corner thing sounds cool in theory, but when you actually use it, it's not that great. Maybe I've been too well-trained in non-Fitt's Law compliant user interfaces, but I just found it hard to use.

Maybe it's changed since then, too.

[x64Jimbo]

Wow. That looks very impressive. Have you used it recently? How's its usability? Is it noob-friendly? I'd like to get my friends interested in Linux, and eye-candy is all the rage these days. ;)

[Adamant1988]

downloading the iso to test on my laptop
I know it's eyecandy but I want to see how practical and functional it is.

[Adamant1988]

the desktop is VERY pretty, and the menus work as intuitively as I would hope. BUT (big but) you can tell that there is a lack of functionality in the gui... I haven't found an ap for any kind of monitor configureations or anything... So far there is no right clicking available and the devices menu picks up the hard drive very oddly.

Installer doesn't seem to want to work either...

I'll keep playing with it though.

[RAV TUX]

Has anyone here looked up symphony os? they use this mezzo desktop thing and I LOVE the way it looks...

"/me wishes ubuntu had something like that"

http://www.symphonyos.com

I used symphonyos and was greatly disappointed.

[DouglasAWh]

Anybody tried Symphony OS? I like the Live CD, but am having problems actually getting it to install.

[nwgray]

I just saw Syphony link from here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_OS

What problems are you having installing? I was thinking about installing it on my test machine.

[DouglasAWh]

first time it wouldn't try to install (a month or so ago). I re-installed ubuntu after installing Vista messed up GRUB and now Symphony acts like it is going to install, but it doesn't show up under GRUB.

[Rumor]

I have not tried it in several months when it was still in beta. When you say it "acts like it is going to install" what do you mean? Does it go through the installation routine?

When you say it does not show up in grub, does that mean it has installed, but you don't see an option to boot into it? During the install, did it ask you where to install grub? Where did you tell it to install grub?

[DouglasAWh]

The OS is still in Beta, so I can't complain too much about it working. In the first go around, I believe it would ask me for the root password and wouldn't accept it and then I just simply couldn't try to install it.

In the second scenario (the more current one), I'm not sure if it is installed and GRUB just doesn't know about it or if it didn't actually install. It did ask me where to install it and I had some options, and I just picked a random one hoping it wouldn't screw things up. I don't have anything important at all on my ubuntu partition, so I wasn't worried about that. I have some things on my Windows side I'd like to not lose, but nothing too important. There's only one physical hard drive. If I had two, I'd just unplug the one with the important stuff to make certain I wasn't wiping anything.

[Minyaliel]

I have tried it... if you're interested, I've given it a short review my site (link in sig).

[DouglasAWh]

I think I may have found out why I couldn't install it. It seems I have 4 primary drives and that's the max (or at least that's what my SUSE CD says). I'm running Win2k3, VistaRC1 and ubuntu...and I assume the fourth is GRUB? I'm a Linux newb, so I'm not entirely certain of this. It's the "swap" drive. What does that mean? Anyway, with this being the case, I'll run parallels I suppose so that I can install Symphony OS, Solaris and SUSE...and maybe Red Hat down the road. It's too bad they can't call play nice. Maybe there's a way to make them all play nice I'm not aware of. Assuming they don't play nice, any free alternatives to parallels? I'm a parallels newb too, but my boss wanted me to check it out today and I was like, "wow, I'm actually doing something at work today I care about."

[manutdfan2850]

does anyone know of symphonyos is good for beginners (people with little or no linux experience) ?

[fuscia]

is there a live version?

[RAV TUX]

does anyone know of symphonyos is good for beginners (people with little or no linux experience) ?

SymohonyOS is an insult to Linux....IMHO

[RAV TUX]

moving to Debian (and derivatives) forum

Symphony OS is a Debian (http://www.symphonyos.com/wiki/index.php/The_Debian_Core_System) GNU/Linux based operating system that uses a completely new user interface, the Mezzo Desktop Environment (http://www.symphonyos.com/wiki/index.php?title=Mezzo_Desktop_Environment&action=edit). http://www.symphonyos.com/wiki/index.php/Main_Page

The Mezzo DE is an assault on the senses

[dbbolton]

I used Symphony when it was Alpha, and I was unimpressed. The corner thing sounds cool in theory, but when you actually use it, it's not that great. Maybe I've been too well-trained in non-Fitt's Law compliant user interfaces, but I just found it hard to use.

Maybe it's changed since then, too.
yes, it's strange.

[lyceum]

I tryed it when I first got into Linux & thought it might be the one for me. After a week I was sick of the GUI. The corners thing lost intrest quick. I want to try the new releace, but I don't know. There are no screen shots, so is it going to be pretty, but more of the same?

[haxer]

Hey i looked over at another post here found something called symphony os saw an screenshot and i must say i liked it highley graphical anyone tried it? Is it good?;)

[d3v1ant_0n3]

I just had a look at their website (http://symphonyos.com/cms/) and I have to say the $99 computer offer is kinda cool. The screenshots don't do much for me tho.

[maxamillion]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_OS

Just looks like a debian/knoppix hack-derivative using a different Desktop Environment so it can't be all bad :)

[haxer]

hehe.. nee it looks alright but is it? I think i wait for desktopbsd 1.6 instead :) but symphony os sounds cool "symphony" little santas little helpers doing work 8) :rolleyes:

[PurplePenguin]

I just downloaded the disc the other day. It's a live disc, so you can try it out. I liked the look, but it wasn't really all that functional "out of the box". It wouldn't pick up my internet connection (no other live disc has had a problem with this - I'm connected to a router with DHCP), so a bunch of the stuff on the desktops wouldn't work. Didn't have the time to play around with it at the moment.

Looks good, though. I was really interested in it about a year or more ago when I first heard about it. Hopefully with a little bit of work, it might be fun to toss on an extra partition and play with. :)

[haxer]

Ok .. report in on that one.

[justin whitaker]

I've been following SymphonyOS since the beginning...I am fascinated by the Mezzo desktop idea.

The core of the system is Debian, with a SLAX based kernel. The desktop is a hacked version of Firefox which renders the desktop, which essentially turns the whole desktop access mode on it's head. The corners allow you to switch between desktop "tabs", and the center of the user space becomes an area to render menus.

There are some issues with Symphony:

1. They want to create a distro around the whole desktop idea, which is more complicated than creating just a WM/DE.

2. There are issues with the SLAX based kernel, and apt/synaptic, which means that the system is not upgradable right now.

3. Some of the ideas (OneClick, Desktop Widgets, etc.) are already done better elsewhere (Klik, Zeroconf, SuperKaramba).

If you like the desktop idea, try Kuartet (http://kuartetdesktop.sourceforge.net/). It takes a similar approach, but uses KDE and SuperKaramba to accomplish it. A much simpler method. :mrgreen:

[haxer]

Hmmm... Kuaret look reallly cool the same style but is it really so great to have it all on the desktop? Isnt it more funtionel to have it in little menu bars?
:-k

[RAV TUX]

Hey i looked over at another post here found something called symphony os saw an screenshot and i must say i liked it highley graphical anyone tried it? Is it good?;)

I have tried both the latest build and an older build...This is the most hideous poor excuse for a Linux OS..the older version was tolerable...but the latest is horrible...

IMHO.

[RAV TUX]

I will now merge this thread with the other SymphonyOS thread in the Debian (and derivatives) forum.

remember to use advanced search before posting duplicate threads.

[lyceum]

Okay, looked at the screenshots, I really can't see a difference. How do you add new programs? apt-get? By the look of things, this could become a cool distro after a few more releases,

[cam_tram]

The UI is a bit funky, but I'd like to give it a shot once they work all the bugs out.

If its Debian-based then shouldn't it be relativly easy to install the DE onto an Ubuntu system?

[Minyaliel]

I've done it, once, then it wasn't worth it. There's a project on kdelooks called kuartet which builds on the same ideas, but works better with Ubuntu (in my experience).

[squidmaster]

I haven't had time to check it out but man it looks damn sexy!

Anychance some one can get a US server up? Maybe even a fast torrent?

[stokedfish]

Symphony OS goes Ubuntu! ;)

We have moved to an Ubuntu Base and are going for a summer release...

http://symphonyos.com/cms/?p=14

;)

[darkenedday]

why is it so many things are moving to an ubuntu base? to me this a limitation of diversity freedom, and can only cripple productivity and advancement, it's the old "if you can't beat em, join em" addage, and it's not the way to be, ubuntu is a great os but it has it's issues as well, maybe another os will fix them. . .

any way, about symphony os, I think it's a great start to a really sweet DE, it needs some work and polish and I agree kuartet looks better in some ways, if I could get it to fit my screen res. here on mandriva (for some reason it likes to think I'm set at 800x600 and only fills up a portion in the top left corner of my screen), however I like the progress and the new revolutionary idea of making a desktop look more like something from the web, quite nice, and very ergonomically pleasing

just my half a cent

[igknighted]

why is it so many things are moving to an ubuntu base? to me this a limitation of diversity freedom, and can only cripple productivity and advancement, it's the old "if you can't beat em, join em" addage, and it's not the way to be, ubuntu is a great os but it has it's issues as well, maybe another os will fix them. . .

any way, about symphony os, I think it's a great start to a really sweet DE, it needs some work and polish and I agree kuartet looks better in some ways, if I could get it to fit my screen res. here on mandriva (for some reason it likes to think I'm set at 800x600 and only fills up a portion in the top left corner of my screen), however I like the progress and the new revolutionary idea of making a desktop look more like something from the web, quite nice, and very ergonomically pleasing

just my half a cent

Normally I would agree, but with a project like Symphony where so much of the development (from a fairly small team IIRC) is going into something radical like Mezzo, then I can accept them moving to a stable codebase to build from.

[lyceum]

why is it so many things are moving to an ubuntu base? to me this a limitation of diversity freedom, and can only cripple productivity and advancement, it's the old "if you can't beat em, join em" addage, and it's not the way to be, ubuntu is a great os but it has it's issues as well, maybe another os will fix them. . .

any way, about symphony os, I think it's a great start to a really sweet DE, it needs some work and polish and I agree kuartet looks better in some ways, if I could get it to fit my screen res. here on mandriva (for some reason it likes to think I'm set at 800x600 and only fills up a portion in the top left corner of my screen), however I like the progress and the new revolutionary idea of making a desktop look more like something from the web, quite nice, and very ergonomically pleasing

just my half a cent

It is an easy out. If you do not have time to create from scratch and want a 6 month window to pull from, Ubuntu is a good fit. Debian is a great base, but they take years to come to a release cycle end.

[rai4shu2]

"Google Gadgets as Desklets"

http://symphonyos.com/cms/?p=15

[justin whitaker]

I can't help think that moving away from Firefox and using something like eyeOS wouldn't be a better fit for this project.

[izizzle]

Is eyeOS a complete operating system? Their site said something about a web based desktop system. What does this mean? Do you need an internet connection to run it?

[Changturkey]

Is this distro dead?

[DouglasAWh]

why is it so many things are moving to an ubuntu base? to me this a limitation of diversity freedom, and can only cripple productivity and advancement, it's the old "if you can't beat em, join em" addage, and it's not the way to be, ubuntu is a great os but it has it's issues as well, maybe another os will fix them. . .

Eventually they can diverge. By having more people develop with the Ubuntu base, the Ubuntu base will only get stronger. Red Hat isn't going anywhere, so there will be at least two camps...

As to whether it's dead...the website is still up: http://symphonyos.com/

[Antman]

Eventually they can diverge. By having more people develop with the Ubuntu base, the Ubuntu base will only get stronger. Red Hat isn't going anywhere, so there will be at least two camps...[/url]

I hope to see more distros start using the true debian base again. Using Ubuntu as base also inherits it's flaws.

[lyceum]

I hope to see more distros start using the true debian base again. Using Ubuntu as base also inherits it's flaws.

The same can be said for any distro that uses anything for a base, even debian. I have had problems with 7.10, the first time I have ever had issues, so I switched to Mint, which is based on Ubuntu 7.10, until 8.04 comes out. It does not have the same flaws. I was really liking the look of Symphony, but it needs more developers.

[Ptero-4]

why is it so many things are moving to an ubuntu base? to me this a limitation of diversity freedom, and can only cripple productivity and advancement, it's the old "if you can't beat em, join em" addage, and it's not the way to be, ubuntu is a great os but it has it's issues as well, maybe another os will fix them. . .

any way, about symphony os, I think it's a great start to a really sweet DE, it needs some work and polish and I agree kuartet looks better in some ways, if I could get it to fit my screen res. here on mandriva (for some reason it likes to think I'm set at 800x600 and only fills up a portion in the top left corner of my screen), however I like the progress and the new revolutionary idea of making a desktop look more like something from the web, quite nice, and very ergonomically pleasing

just my half a cent

darkenedday. The reason most distros today are based on ubuntu is that the ubuntu codebase is a very stable one, well known, is sponsored by a known company which means that ubuntu is going to be there and strong for a long time, also it have a update schedule that is both regular and timelly and finally ubuntu have the best remastering tools (reconstructor) so making a new distro is just matter of placing an ubuntu iso image (heck, you don't even need to burn the image at all to use it) in reconstructor, doing your edits and letting reconstructor put it back together (it takes care of all the stuff like bootloader configs, manifests, md5 generation, CD name, etc) and you got it, a new distro.

[Antman]

also it have a update schedule that is both regular and timelly and finally ubuntu have the best remastering tools (reconstructor) so making a new distro is just matter of placing an ubuntu iso image (heck, you don't even need to burn the image at all to use it) in reconstructor, doing your edits and letting reconstructor put it back together (it takes care of all the stuff like bootloader configs, manifests, md5 generation, CD name, etc) and you got it, a new distro.

Cool, I never knew about the re-constructor tool; I knew Fedora had one. Could be worth playing with on a spare weekend. I wonder if it works with any debian based .iso or just *buntu's?!?

[zmjjmz]

I have 2006-12 on a disc, and so far I've only gotten it to work on a laptop with no internet connection, so it was kinda worthless.

Impressions: Very, very good idea. Sounds like a great DE/WM for a library :P
On the other hand, the window borders...
Ew.
But, I can't wait for 2007b...
Looks like it could be nice...
I have an old eMachine that will really only accept Ubuntu derivatives, and this would be a great distro for it (light, Ubuntu base, eay to use...)
On the other hand, it hasn't been updated since 9/18/07, which is kinda disappointing...
Oh, and the /cms location on the server is dead...
or something...

[zmjjmz]

I shall revive this thread with the upcoming release of the seemingly awesome SymphonyOne.

/me revives

[GerryB]

The new live CD is out, the one based on Ubuntu 7.10. It works well, got on the Internet right away, the codecs are there. Can't access the hard drive. Takes a few tries to change the wallpaper. The themes are the same as in Ubuntu but they don't show up well. Maybe an install would work better. The only advantage that I see is that it's fast on old computers.

[zmjjmz]

Hm, no updates...
The forums are overrun by spam, and I sent a PM to the mod regarding it. Hopefully something will come of this, but as of now the distro appears inactive.

[lyceum]

Hm, no updates...
The forums are overrun by spam, and I sent a PM to the mod regarding it. Hopefully something will come of this, but as of now the distro appears inactive.

That's too bad. It had lots of potential.

[Tobias Claren]

Hello.

I have checked the burned CD.
With a DVD drive I have one Error on a hp vectra VL400 SFF
With the same drive on another computer, I did not have this Error.

?????

[zmjjmz]

I recommend you just try something else.
http://symphonyos.com/forum/
As you can see, they're not sure about the project's future.

[CodeRazor]

Major disappointment!

I came across and read the whitepaper about Mezzo a couple of weeks ago and really liked the ideas. I've also wanted to use the corners and edges for app lists and such. The large menus instead of little cascades seemed like a nice idea, too.

So, I downloaded 2008.1. Today I finally got around to trying it out. What a piece of crap! It is nothing like the Mezzo described in the whitepaper; it has none of the advantages!
Shockingly, the "corner icons" aren't even active in the corners. So much for complying with Fitts Law! You have to move away from the corner a pixel or two to click the icons. I was shocked.

This is the single most disappointing Linux live CD I have every tried (and I've tried a great many). Part of the problem is that I had high hopes. Man did they ever let them down!

I think the better bet is to hack some other panel to be invisible until you move to a corner and not try to roll a whole distribution just to get hot corners. (I've been planning to do just this for years; if only I could find the time for some of my non-work projects.)

It sure looks like the project is dead, anyway. A couple of weeks ago, the forum was up, but it was more spam than content (lack of moderator attention). Now it's down. Having tried the misguided 2008.1, it seems appropriate for the project to just fade away.

I'll have to give Kuartet a try...

Cheers

[lyceum]

Major disappointment!

I came across and read the whitepaper about Mezzo a couple of weeks ago and really liked the ideas. I've also wanted to use the corners and edges for app lists and such. The large menus instead of little cascades seemed like a nice idea, too.

So, I downloaded 2008.1. Today I finally got around to trying it out. What a piece of crap! It is nothing like the Mezzo described in the whitepaper; it has none of the advantages!
Shockingly, the "corner icons" aren't even active in the corners. So much for complying with Fitts Law! You have to move away from the corner a pixel or two to click the icons. I was shocked.

This is the single most disappointing Linux live CD I have every tried (and I've tried a great many). Part of the problem is that I had high hopes. Man did they ever let them down!

I think the better bet is to hack some other panel to be invisible until you move to a corner and not try to roll a whole distribution just to get hot corners. (I've been planning to do just this for years; if only I could find the time for some of my non-work projects.)

It sure looks like the project is dead, anyway. A couple of weeks ago, the forum was up, but it was more spam than content (lack of moderator attention). Now it's down. Having tried the misguided 2008.1, it seems appropriate for the project to just fade away.

I'll have to give Kuartet a try...

Cheers

Isn't it just one person? I really wish a group of people would jump on it. This could have been great, based on the designs, but it never got out of beta!

[CodeRazor]

^ According to Wikipedia: "Symphony OS, SymphonyOne or Symphony Linux, is a Live CD operating system, developed by Ryan Quinn, Jason Spisak, and Alexander Drummond. The distribution is currently dormant."

I know a few weeks ago while the forums were up, there was a post saying that Jason wasn't with them anymore. Having tried 2008.1, I'm not at all surprised.

Ryan's original interest seems to have been in the firefox-engine application system (which I have little interest in) while Jason was driving the Mezzo desktop concepts, which is what I found interesting. It appears that Ryan moved in a very different direction from the Mezzo Jason had envisioned; pity.

I wish someone would revive the original concepts in a brand new implementation (and just make it a desktop installable via .deb, not a full distribution!) I propose naming it Mezzo Forte. Alas, I lack time to do such a project (and my own hobby projects run along somewhat different lines, catering to the power user rather than the newbie).

[MJ Britt]

This is a shame. I would love to see this as an implementation in Ubuntu. Has anyone gotten the Mezzo desktop working in intrepid?

I tried doing the live cd and it messed up my grub settings... That was fun fixing. The desktop would be excellent for a netbook - all the real estate to work with.

Just my 2 cents, thanks.
Matt

[smartboyathome]

Okay, I did some looking into the matter.

This article (http://www.linux.com/feature/133017) from linux.com is good for an overview of Mezzo.

In short, Mezzo is simply a specific configuration of FVWM, an entirely different window manager, with gDesklets thrown on top. There's more to it than that, but not much. I know I've got a Symphony 2008.1 CD around here, maybe I could pull out the Mezzo FVWM configuration files.

That should help you. Just configure FVWM and GDesklets like in Mezzo, and it should work.

EDIT: I have been doing some research, and think I have come up with something better than Mezzo. I think we could do something like EyeOS, complete with something like Mindterm to allow terminal access. We could even use RealVNC or something similar so that we could have X applications running on the desktop. (Sorry for the focus on Java, but that is the only thing I know that will run in a web browser besides Flash, which doesn't really have applications we need)

EDIT2: Even better, something like AnyTerm, which is an SSH terminal written in AJAX.

[cardinals_fan]

EDIT: I have been doing some research, and think I have come up with something better than Mezzo. I think we could do something like EyeOS, complete with something like Mindterm to allow terminal access. We could even use RealVNC or something similar so that we could have X applications running on the desktop. (Sorry for the focus on Java, but that is the only thing I know that will run in a web browser besides Flash, which doesn't really have applications we need)

Interesting idea...

[Frak]

Interesting idea...
+2

That would sound like a very interesting project. I'm too busy, though, right now to implement something (Java is my major language).

[Sorivenul]

Interesting idea...
Another +1.

@smartboyathome:
Thanks for the reference. :D
That configuration by the way, at least from my examination a while ago is messed up beyond logical comprehension. No wonder it took so long to reimplement Mezzo for Symphony 2008... I'm interested in the "better than Mezzo" project.