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View Full Version : Beginner outlook on this forum (read if you're open minded)



DmitriK
July 3rd, 2006, 06:02 PM
I've joined this forum a week or so ago. I'm a new user of linux, after unsuccessful installation of fedora and knoppix, kubuntu finally was the choice because it worked. I had and still have a lot of questions and most were answered here, thank you. However, while looking for answers I've read some unelievably negative replies to others. I'm a member of a quite a few forums and have never seen anything like this. I'm not going to name anyone but come on, would some of you lighten up a bit? It's almost "discusting" to read some of the replies. I'm not going to disclose my opinions because obviously everyone has their own opinions, and those (opinions) are not taken here very well some times, but I'd like to point out that everyone was a beginner linux user at one point and would be nice, if there's an opinion, read it with an open mind.

Just my two cents. Thanks.

Lord Illidan
July 3rd, 2006, 06:11 PM
Give us the locations of those threads, then.

Remember that as a community, there will always be a couple of bad eggs somewhere. It is like Lord of the Flies in that respect. Do not judge the community as a whole because of those bad eggs who are a minority, please.

Also, the mods have probably already taken note of what has happened, and will act on it.

mstlyevil
July 3rd, 2006, 06:15 PM
I've joined this forum a week or so ago. I'm a new user of linux, after unsuccessful installation of fedora and knoppix, kubuntu finally was the choice because it worked. I had and still have a lot of questions and most were answered here, thank you. However, while looking for answers I've read some unelievably negative replies to others. I'm a member of a quite a few forums and have never seen anything like this. I'm not going to name anyone but come on, would some of you lighten up a bit? It's almost "discusting" to read some of the replies. I'm not going to disclose my opinions because obviously everyone has their own opinions, and those (opinions) are not taken here very well some times, but I'd like to point out that everyone was a beginner linux user at one point and would be nice, if there's an opinion, read it with an open mind.

Just my two cents. Thanks.

When you see people being rude to others please use the report a post function and we will take care of it. Rude behaviour is not tolated on these forums and it will be dealt with accordingly.

aysiu
July 3rd, 2006, 06:29 PM
Yes, there's a little red stop sign in the bottom-left-hand corner of each post. When you see a bad one, report it, and add a comment about it.

The moderators will receive notification of this and investigate.

DmitriK
July 3rd, 2006, 06:29 PM
They are not "rude"/use any bad language, but the ideas passed are very negative.

Lord Illidan: You are absolutely right, there will be bad eggs; that's why I used "some" users/posts and not all in order to avoid generalization.

DmitriK
July 3rd, 2006, 06:57 PM
aysiu: like your signature link for 'ubuntu vs windows' installation, very interesting. It's misleading tho :), bundled XP CDs (mentioned in the article) are always a pain in the neck. Clean XP does take longer to install but it boots in nearly 25 seconds vs 1 minute and a half for kubuntu (both clean installs), at least in my case. Haven't tried hybernation in linux, it's on my todo list. I need to find some good articles about hybernation. Feel free to suggest any meanwhile I'm going to take a look on the forums.

Footissimo
July 3rd, 2006, 07:01 PM
I've joined this forum a week or so ago. I'm a new user of linux, after unsuccessful installation of fedora and knoppix, kubuntu finally was the choice because it worked. I had and still have a lot of questions and most were answered here, thank you. However, while looking for answers I've read some unelievably negative replies to others. I'm a member of a quite a few forums and have never seen anything like this. I'm not going to name anyone but come on, would some of you lighten up a bit? It's almost "discusting" to read some of the replies. I'm not going to disclose my opinions because obviously everyone has their own opinions, and those (opinions) are not taken here very well some times, but I'd like to point out that everyone was a beginner linux user at one point and would be nice, if there's an opinion, read it with an open mind.

Just my two cents. Thanks.

Ubuntu forums is one of the best..well certainly amongst linux forums - whilst perhaps not as 'technical' as other forums, there is more of a sense of community and friendliness here than in any other linux forum I've been on (and thats a few over the last couple of years)..in fact it was one of the reason for me migrating.

prizrak
July 3rd, 2006, 07:09 PM
They are not "rude"/use any bad language, but the ideas passed are very negative.

Lord Illidan: You are absolutely right, there will be bad eggs; that's why I used "some" users/posts and not all in order to avoid generalization.
If by negative ideas you mean people told newbies to go away/use different distro, it mostly has to do with a lot of "Linux isn't ready for anyone other than Torvalds and Stallman" posts. On the other hand FOSS people tend to be pretty passionate about things (that's how we have products that rival commercial ones w/o having the same money) so alot of debates might become very heated and polarized.

tsb
July 3rd, 2006, 07:10 PM
Surprised by this thread. These forums are about the tamest on the net. The other forums I frequent, AVS and DPReview are much more "animated". Besides, the last thing the world needs is another NARC.

T700
July 3rd, 2006, 08:00 PM
I find it interesting and very telling that when challenged, the original poster failed to provide even a single example. No question, these are the most polite and well moderated forums I've ever encountered in 15 years of being online.

Paul

aysiu
July 3rd, 2006, 08:08 PM
I'm a very practical person. You can't stop people from signing up for these forums. Anyone with an internet connection can do it.

The only thing you should do is look at what you can do. What's under your control?

Well, this is what we have available:

1. Encourage people to be polite. Model politeness. Gently remind people when they've gotten out of line (especially some of us veteran members who get hotheaded from time to time).

2. Report bad posts to moderators. Let them do their job.

3. Ignore trolls. Don't call them trolls. Don't argue with them. Just ignore them. Yes, I know this doesn't always happen. I myself have been lured in by quite a few, but ideally this is what would happen.

Anything outside of those suggestions generally is stuff you can't have any control over. It's up to moderators how to handle repeat offenders--they usually get a private message scolding, a temp ban, and then a perm ban in that order.

DmitriK
July 3rd, 2006, 08:47 PM
T700: see, you're pushing in for an argument. I did not pay attention to the threads when I was reading them, just over time it accumulated and if you want the thread that set me off to post this one, it was the "why do you hate XP" thread. I doubt I will be able to find the other threads that I found desturbing. There's no "failed to provide examples" deal. You should also consider that maybe I misunderstood some of the replies and "selling out" the thread starters of the threads that appeared "rude" to me would be a mistake on my part. This thread was started to see how people generally feel about this forum and as to what I noticed. Maybe someone noticed the same thing, and apparently so. There's a sticky thread encouraging members to be polite.

aysiu
July 3rd, 2006, 08:59 PM
if you want the thread that set me off to post this one, it was the "why do you hate XP" thread. Right now there are 135 posts in that thread. (http://www.ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=189334) I found only one that's offensive:
oh ffs another one of these windoze fan boys who talk complete nonsense about how it works fine, no it does not. i fixed pc's for 2 years i saw poor familys who could not afford their pc fixed and 99999999 times out of 100 the fault was windows, something screwed up something was not working, security flaw this, crashed and damaged the hard drive that. Rarely did I see the users screwing up their own pc most of the time they were just honest hard working people that m$ over charged and then let down.

You love windows go to a windows forum, I dont wana have to read another one of these stupid threads I vote it be jailed or backyarded it has nothing to do with this community and will only annoy people. For a thread that has the word hate in the title, 0.7% of the replies being antagonistic isn't so bad, is it?

fuscia
July 3rd, 2006, 09:05 PM
this kind of thread gets on my nerves. you're just whining about other people and how they conduct their business. there's nothing constructive about that. you're not addressing a specific problem, so there's no remedy in sight. you're not even addressing a person. now all the nice people think they have to be even nicer while all the mean people are just rolling their eyes at you.

T700
July 3rd, 2006, 09:12 PM
T700: see, you're pushing in for an argument.
Complaining without being able to back up a blanket assertation is simply whining. How can you just waltz into a long existing forum, fire a broadside salvo with NOTHING to back it up, and expect it to be well received?

Paul

[Edited for grammar]

GuitarHero
July 3rd, 2006, 09:35 PM
This is by far the best forum ive ever been a part of as far as people wanting to help others.

alxjl
July 3rd, 2006, 09:56 PM
I agree. Try to look at the bright side and see the helpful things this forum does to all those who seek help. When i used to be in Microsoft-sponsored forums and even seminars, you should have seen Microsoft MVP's (not just ordinary persons) flame and bash guys who advocated open-source without even having a clue what they were talking about. Sometimes when we're so passionate about something, we tend to use some strong words. Doesn't mean rudeness though. Everyone here is entitled to his/her own opinions. Peace..

richbarna
July 3rd, 2006, 10:00 PM
I read the "hate xp" thread, and for a Cafe post, I didn't see anything overtly offensive.
I think that this is the best Linux forum on the net, due to the politeness and knowledge.
I do take offense however to users that have only been here a week, posting a topic that is only going to cause a flame war.
Many users spend hours of their free time here helping new users and also generally hanging out.
Yes there will be idiots that come here spouting rubbish, but they are thankfully a minority.
I would like to see more new users saying thanks every once in a while and praising the forum.
This forum provides a pretty damn good service to thousands of people, not bad considering that it's free.

egon spengler
July 3rd, 2006, 11:58 PM
T700: see, you're pushing in for an argument...

...This thread was started to see how people generally feel about this forum and as to what I noticed.

I think it's perfectly reasonable of you to make this thread and see if others share your feelings but what you need to bear in mind is that not everyone will feel as you do. I don't think T700 was rude in his/her reply but for some reason you take them disagreeing with you and questioning your lack of evidence as spoiling for an argument. If you view anyone disagreeing with your standpoint something hostile then of course you'll find these forums a rude place

AndyCooll
July 4th, 2006, 12:15 AM
Like a few others who've already posted in this thread I must admit to being surprised at your comments. In fact they are the exact opposite to just about every other comment I've ever heard about ubuntuforums (whether from folk posting thanks on these very forums or from just about every other Linux related forum). These forums are renowned for their helpfulness, friendliness and especially the warm welcome given to beginners.

So I beg to differ with your views. I concur with every comment richbarna has just made, for I consider myself to be one of those users who spend hours trying to help beginners.

Take another good look at the "absolute beginners" section. See how many threads are asking the same question over and over again. And then take a good look at the responses and how regulars are still patiently taking the time to re-repeat the answers they've possibly written countless times before. IMHO these forums bend over backwards to be helpful.

It was interesting that you used a thread from the cafe. You should remember that this is the "off topic" section. And just like any other similar section on any other forum it is the one where you are most likely to get a variety of comments ...all of which should be taken with a pinch of salt. Having said that even the cafe is tame compared to just about every other forum I've visited.

:cool:

djsroknrol
July 4th, 2006, 11:45 PM
I for one am very appreciative of these forums...it and all the helpful people on here are the ones who help me thru the thick and thin of it all....they keep alot of people in Linux and Ubuntu...AndyCool is right...when you answer the same questions over and over again, it does show for something...some incredible people doing something that goes mostly unthanked.....

I can also see your side however....when you answer questions over and over you tend to get a little short with people....that happens also...

I think that people need to search and research a little more before asking questions...it would cut down alot of uneeded stress and strain on all concerned..but how do you teach new people proper forum manners?

just my .02..

yabbadabbadont
July 4th, 2006, 11:58 PM
I can't find the link at the moment, but I read a news article about a study that found that almost 50% of the time, people misread the "tone" of e-mail messages. They felt that the person who sent the message was being hateful when they weren't. The study found that people got it wrong in the other direction too. They felt that the message was nicer than the sender intended. I would imagine that these findings would apply to forum posts as well. Personally, I have been guilty of being rude to a newbie in the past. I did apologize for it, but I still feel bad about that post. I guess the moral of the story is to always try to give the other person the benfit of a doubt when interpreting what they have posted. (and to remember that you too were new once)

Ok, now I need a step-ladder so that I can climb down off my high horse... :D

BWF89
July 5th, 2006, 12:14 AM
Yes, there's a little red stop sign in the bottom-left-hand corner of each post. When you see a bad one, report it, and add a comment about it.

The moderators will receive notification of this and investigate.
Being rude and violating forum rules are completely different things. You can't just report someones post because you didn't like what they have to say.

aysiu
July 5th, 2006, 12:25 AM
Being rude and violating forum rules are completely different things. You can't just report someones post because you didn't like what they have to say.
Being rude doesn't violate the forum rules? I thought it did.

And I don't believe that has anything to do with not liking what someone has to say. That's just a difference of opinion--everyone's entitled to her own opinions.

mstlyevil
July 5th, 2006, 12:42 AM
You know what they say, opinions are like elbows and (Well I better not say it.)

23meg
July 5th, 2006, 12:55 AM
This is the most tolerant and welcoming support forum site I've ever seen; I sometimes think it's actually too nice here, people go to lengths they shouldn't go to be nice, and this has its side effects.

Now that the OP has been informed that these forums are indeed very nice and what they've seen are perhaps small exceptions, and have been informed on what to do in case they encounter rudeness, I guess this thread has served its purpose. I think we should stop posting unless the OP has any further inquiries.

ericesque
July 5th, 2006, 01:04 AM
I'm also a bit surprised that your perception of the forum was one of rudeness and/or aggression. I've found the Ubuntu forum one of the most hospitable and welcoming communities on the web. If you want to contrast, check out the Digg user comments. I've practically stopped digging because of it. I only check for headlines and actually read one or two articles.

I do agree that some of the linux versus windows conversations can have vastly polar opinions, but I also think that these type of threads are written out of frustration--which often leads to misunderstanding. I know I've referred to linux as a 'novelty OS' at times. To a degree, I still find it to be such. But for me to spout that kind of comment and vent my frustration on a forum that has helped me every step of the way AND is highly passionate about linux is primarily negligence and immaturity on my part. AND YET, many of the replies I recieved were offers of help and encouragement.

Give the community a chance. I think you'll find the majority to be worth getting to know.

zenwhen
July 5th, 2006, 01:36 AM
Trust me, the moderating staff works hard to stop posters like this in their tracks.

mips
July 5th, 2006, 11:48 AM
Complaining without being able to back up a blanket assertation is simply whining. How can you just waltz into a long existing forum, fire a broadside salvo with NOTHING to back it up, and expect it to be well received?

Paul

[Edited for grammar]

I agree. If you want to make a statement of that nature back it up with evidence. Scared you going to offend the "guilty" ?

For all I know you could be talking about me ;)

In life people are going to say things you might not like, they might even swear at you or physically attack you. What matters is how you deal with it, whining imho does not deal with it.