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oxf
August 8th, 2012, 03:53 PM
Whats the story with Open Office vs LibraOffice? It seems all the talk is now about Libra Office. Is Open Office being discontinued? I'm not sure I have it in me to learn a new one!

vasa1
August 8th, 2012, 03:56 PM
The story is more than a year old.

Primefalcon
August 8th, 2012, 04:01 PM
LibreOffice is just a fork of Open Office... if you know Open Office... you know LibreOffice.... No biggy.

LibreOffice is now the one everyone is backing though OO was crapped on by Oracle after they bought Sun

vasa1
August 8th, 2012, 04:03 PM
Here are two links:
http://www.h-online.com/open/features/OpenOffice-splits-and-pirouettes-1270296.html
http://www.h-online.com/open/features/LibreOffice-a-dive-into-the-unknown-1355159.html

oxf
August 8th, 2012, 04:49 PM
Here are two links:
http://www.h-online.com/open/features/OpenOffice-splits-and-pirouettes-1270296.html
http://www.h-online.com/open/features/LibreOffice-a-dive-into-the-unknown-1355159.html


Thanks!
Katya

Tombgeek
August 8th, 2012, 06:54 PM
Actually, Apache has continued developing it and OpenOffice 3.4 was recently released.

t0p
August 8th, 2012, 07:26 PM
I prefer the name LibreOffice. I am very much on the "Free Software" side of "Free" vs "Open", and the use of the French word libre clears up the misunderstanding over whether Free software is liberated or doesn't cost anything (even though LibreOffice doesn't have to cost anything either...) You know, the difference between libre and gratuit. Of course, this all assumes that you know what libre and gratuit actually mean... but I'm a pedant sometimes, what you want me to say?

As I'm being pedantic here: OP, it's LibreOffice, not LibraOffice. So there. :p

vexorian
August 8th, 2012, 08:39 PM
Whats the story with Open Office vs LibraOffice? It seems all the talk is now about Libra Office. Is Open Office being discontinued? I'm not sure I have it in me to learn a new one!
There was once a pretty company. Often touted as the symbol that free software peeps can trust big corporations as some can be friendly to it. We had to trust Sun as they got some control over many important things, like Java, OpenOffice, Solaris, mysql, eventually even VirtualBox.

But of course, the main reason behind free software and copyleft is that , even when there are good intentions behind a company right now. The future is uncertain. Chairs change. Deals with MS are signed. Whole corporations can be bought, etc. So, Oracle bought Sun, seemingly only with the objective to get some control over mysql and sue google over Java patents. They neglected OpenOffice and Oracle is not really very reliable, which caused a group of developers to make the LibreOffice fork. Apparently, giving control to the community was just what open office needed as optimizations and improvements were coming very quickly. Suddenly LibreOffice needed far less seconds to open, had more beautiful logos and icons...

So, of course, Oracle just found out about LibreOffice. They could have just killed OpenOffice and let the community be happy with LibreOffice. But of course, their CEO probably thought to himself "How can I use OpenOffice to hurt FOSS the most?" (A question he probably asked himself with Java in the past). So, they decided to give OpenOffice to Apache. Probably because Apache dudes don't like copyleft. So, Apache could just let the code be merged and everyone would be happy. But instead, they decided to change Open Office's license to the Apache license. Which means that we are now forked by life.

OpenOffice is preferred by the mixed source fans. The guys who still harbor the sentiment that it is good that a project can be forked by proprietary companies any minute now. Which is ironic, because the whole issue would not have happened if it wasn't for mixed source. And OpenOffice would have died at the hands of Oracle if it wasn't for copyleft. Thanks to copyleft, the answer to Oracle's CEO's question could barely be forking the efforts. It could have been much worse. I love the GPL.

So far, besides of the logos, the licenses and that LibreOffice has a vibrant developer community, there are not many differences between the two.

I for one, am just glad this whole thing happened as we now got LibreOffice. It has improved so much in comparison to Sun-era OpenOffice.

Hagar Delest
August 8th, 2012, 08:51 PM
Apache OpenOffice has been long to be released due to code cleaning last year. 3.4.0 has been released beginning of May and 3.4.1 is due within few days.

Not all devs have switched to LibO and features of Symphony could be merged into AOO in the future.

KiwiNZ
August 8th, 2012, 08:52 PM
Both Open Office and Libre Office are falling way behind,IMHO.

forrestcupp
August 8th, 2012, 08:55 PM
I like Nacho Libre better than LibreOffice.

jpeddicord
August 8th, 2012, 08:56 PM
Both Open Office and Libre Office are falling way behind,IMHO.

I kinda disagree with respect to LibreOffice. LO has had some nice design efforts put into it for future releases, and they've really cleaned up the interface.

Take a look here for some of the stuff they're working on:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/102673546895803839652/posts

I can't speak for OpenOffice as I haven't used it for quite some time.

Primefalcon
August 8th, 2012, 09:02 PM
I kinda disagree with respect to LibreOffice. LO has had some nice design efforts put into it for future releases, and they've really cleaned up the interface.

Take a look here for some of the stuff they're working on:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/102673546895803839652/posts

I can't speak for OpenOffice as I haven't used it for quite some time.
Yeah well I'll just be happy when they have better support for docx docs... I know not their fault but still unfortunately one of the reasons I still have to keep a word 2007 install under wine

KiwiNZ
August 8th, 2012, 09:06 PM
I kinda disagree with respect to LibreOffice. LO has had some nice design efforts put into it for future releases, and they've really cleaned up the interface.

Take a look here for some of the stuff they're working on:

https://plus.google.com/u/0/102673546895803839652/posts

I can't speak for OpenOffice as I haven't used it for quite some time.

I am not saying LO and OO are not progressing, I am saying the competition is progressing faster, of course funds to fuel progress has a lot to do with it.

Hagar Delest
August 8th, 2012, 09:10 PM
Yeah well I'll just be happy when they have better support for docx docs
The point using AOO or LibO is to use the native ODF and avoid vendor lock-in policy with OOXML.
As you already do, if you need to work in OOXML, then use MS Office.

KiwiNZ
August 8th, 2012, 09:17 PM
The point using AOO or LibO is to use the native ODF and avoid vendor lock-in policy with OOXML.
As you already do, if you need to work in OOXML, then use MS Office.

Not that simple when you need to share documents etc

Simian Man
August 8th, 2012, 09:27 PM
I prefer the name LibreOffice. I am very much on the "Free Software" side of "Free" vs "Open", and the use of the French word libre clears up the misunderstanding over whether Free software is liberated or doesn't cost anything (even though LibreOffice doesn't have to cost anything either...) You know, the difference between libre and gratuit. Of course, this all assumes that you know what libre and gratuit actually mean... but I'm a pedant sometimes, what you want me to say?

Most users don't care at all about the difference, they just want their software to work. In that regard neither project is really that successful IMHO. And both names are pretty terrible. Names like that say that the point of the software is to be free (whatever type you want) over being good. And it shows.

Also libre is a word in many Latin-based languages besides French including Spanish.


Not that simple when you need to share documents etc

Yes. Sharing documents is the whole point of an office suite. If I am working on stuff for myself, I just use text files and vim.

Hagar Delest
August 8th, 2012, 09:29 PM
Not that simple when you need to share documents etc
I know, that's the power of the vendor lock-in policy. But the users data safety is at stake.
Perhaps it will change with institutions requiring the use of ODF. Some cities in Europe have done so already.


Yes. Sharing documents is the whole point of an office suite.
Not only. You can export your documents as PDF once done. All documents don't need to be shared.

Smilax
August 8th, 2012, 10:49 PM
Both Open Office and Libre Office are falling way behind,IMHO.


that's probability true (i for one don't have much knowledge of either Open Office, Libre Office or Word)


however, for most people, who just have to do 'light' word processing it's good enough, and free (beer). for the general public i think the libre part don't matter so much,

forrestcupp
August 9th, 2012, 09:13 PM
Not only. You can export your documents as PDF once done. All documents don't need to be shared.

Which doesn't do any good if it still needs to be edited.

Primefalcon
August 9th, 2012, 09:19 PM
I know, that's the power of the vendor lock-in policy. But the users data safety is at stake.
Perhaps it will change with institutions requiring the use of ODF. Some cities in Europe have done so already.


Not only. You can export your documents as PDF once done. All documents don't need to be shared.
your kinda missing the point documents that need to be shared and still editable... which means keep any documents business related at all in LO/OO is a danger

Edit: forest beat me to it lol, but yeah thats exactly the issues I have had....

not found
August 9th, 2012, 09:23 PM
That time of year already? Thread moved to Recurring Discussions.


404

Hagar Delest
August 9th, 2012, 10:48 PM
The danger is the vendor lock-in policy. For documents that don't need to be edited by someone else (invoices, letters, resumes for example), you don't need to send an editable version.

.doc and .docx are not intended to be interoperable so you will face problems anytime because they have been designed to be compatible with MS Office only. So if you want to risk productivity loss by using AOO or Libo (with non ODF formats), up to you. Personally, when I'm requested to produce a .doc file, I don't use AOO, I use MS Word.

Standards have been designed to improve productivity, avoid non added value and so on. So why not use ODF? But of course, everybody is used to .doc, that's the only thing users have been used to for years. Note that I've been part of these users. I switched to ODF and OOo after a crash with MS Word and data loss without recovering possibility because .doc was a closed format.

Primefalcon
August 9th, 2012, 10:55 PM
The problem though is that 90% of businesses use Doc and dox and are ignorant of standards....

and if you need to interact with these people and lets face it.... most of us do for our livelihood.... you need to interact with them in a format of their choosing since typically you need them not the other way around....

I'll be 100% honest though I'll be the first to jump to joy when you can use odf format in this capacity

KiwiNZ
August 9th, 2012, 11:10 PM
The problem though is that 90% of businesses use Doc and dox and are ignorant of standards....



It is not a case of being ignorant of standards it is a case of being aware of the facts of life, that is, the people I do business with use MSFT file types therefore, if I wish to share with them and conduct business I must use the same.

vexorian
August 10th, 2012, 12:31 AM
If the point is to share work, google docs is better anyway.

You can be part of the lock-in problem and say that you are just following what everyone else is doing. Or you can be part of the lock-in fix. Sometimes you really don't have a choice, but I think making it the default not to do the fight is not all right.

Nevertheless, LibreOffice will continue developing and improving OOXML support. They are realistic too. It cannot really be an instant feature. OOXML is a format that has been designed to be hard to implement correctly. The whole point of the OOXML format is to make interoperability difficult.


And both names are pretty terrible. Names like that say that the point of the software is to be free (whatever type you want) over being good. And it shows. Now this is lame. Calling it {Ultra awesome lemon juice office suite} won't fix anything. And being free software is part of being good. Then we compare it with office programs with more idilic names like KOffice or Abiword. I don't think their names helped them.

It is not at all different from "Microsoft Office". The name admits that the whole point of the product is to prolong the Microsoft brand dominance of your computer. But users are fine with that name.

KiwiNZ
August 10th, 2012, 12:39 AM
If you want to share, google docs is better any way.

You can be part of the lock-in problem and say that you are just following what everyone else is doing. Or you can be part of the lock-in fix.

Nevertheless, if there is something in which work at LibreOffice won't stop is in OOXML support. But please, it is not like a magic wand thing in which LibreOffice can just decide to implement OOXML and it is done. OOXML is a format that has been designed to be hard to implement correctly. The whole point of the OOXML format is to make interoperability difficult.

Now this is lame. Calling it Ultra awesome lemon juice office suite won't fix anything. And being free software is part of being good.

It is not at all different from "Microsoft Office". The name admits that the whole point of the product is to prolong the Microsoft brand dominance of your computer. But users are fine with that name.

I would not put commercially sensitive material on Google docs and would fire any staff that would do so.

forrestcupp
August 10th, 2012, 12:44 AM
The problem though is that 90% of businesses use Doc and dox and are ignorant of standards....

and if you need to interact with these people and lets face it.... most of us do for our livelihood.... you need to interact with them in a format of their choosing since typically you need them not the other way around....

I'll be 100% honest though I'll be the first to jump to joy when you can use odf format in this capacity

This is a good point. It's not always about what filetype I want to send to other people. It's often about what they want to send to me. I can't stop the world from sending me docx files.

vexorian
August 10th, 2012, 12:46 AM
Such a concern on security, and such conconsistency. So, while commercially sensitive material is liberally being made dependent on office and is shared by flash disks or whatever other method, I guess you can feel secure since you don't use google docs.


This is a good point. It's not always about what filetype I want to send to other people. It's often about what they want to send to me. I can't stop the world from sending me docx files. Has happened to me. And then I just use libre office to edit the file.

It is right, you cannot demand people to use odt. But I noticed something about what causes the most issues when editing OOXML files. It is people that do sloppy work on them and use the features badly. In Word, this means specifically a misuse of styles. I seldom really have super ultra difficulties in this. But when I do, I know to tell the user to actually learn to use Office.

The real issue comes with awful BS such as OOXML files that use DRM. Ok, it is not DRM but that thing that does exactly the same but works for companies. You can't expect to have interoperability with any office suite other than Ms office in those cases. Hence I think that whatever happens in regards to native office suites. We need to keep on working in WINE to make sure office works, because the corporative work is locked in horribly.


Although maybe we are better off without corporative drones using ubuntu anyway.

johnathansmith
August 10th, 2012, 12:49 AM
Which doesn't do any good if it still needs to be edited.

Agreed PDF, is just horrible for team work. Unless it's use only like a manual. It's really hard to use OO/LO in industrial area.

KiwiNZ
August 10th, 2012, 12:53 AM
Such a concern on security, and such conconsistency. So, while commercially sensitive material is liberally being made dependent on office and is shared by flash disks or whatever other method, I guess you can feel secure since you don't use google docs.

Has happened to me. And then I just use libre office to edit the file.

It is right, you cannot demand people to use odt. But I noticed something about what causes the most issues when editing OOXML files. It is people that do sloppy work on them and use the features badly. In Word, this means specifically a misuse of styles. I seldom really have super ultra difficulties in this. But when I do, I know to tell the user to actually learn to use Office.

The real issue comes with awful BS such as OOXML files that use DRM. Ok, it is not DRM but that thing that does exactly the same but works for companies. You can't expect to have interoperability with any office suite other than Ms office in those cases. Hence I think that whatever happens in regards to native office suites. We need to keep on working in WINE to make sure office works, because the corporative work is locked in horribly.


Although maybe we are better off without corporative drones using ubuntu anyway.

I don't allow the unauthorized of Flash drives, optical drives etc etc

vasa1
August 10th, 2012, 04:16 AM
It is not a case of being ignorant of standards it is a case of being aware of the facts of life, that is, the people I do business with use MSFT file types therefore, if I wish to share with them and conduct business I must use the same.

No doubt while educating them about the evils of vendor lock-in ;)

Sharing and conducting business can be done without MSFT file types. It's propaganda to claim that they can't.

As a somewhat non sequitur, I maybe wrong but Curiosity landed on Mars without MSFT.

BTW, I'm not saying that any of the open "office suites" come anywhere close to MS Office. They have miles to go. But then they got "freedom" in just the last couple of years.

lisati
August 10th, 2012, 04:39 AM
I don't allow the unauthorized of Flash drives, optical drives etc etc

Good call. I've even encountered a camcorder which somehow ended up with malware on its HD.

I'm surprised that I didn't notice mention of Star Office (a predecessor to OO) when reading this thread. Yes, I used it briefly when I first had a Windows machine about 10 years ago.

KiwiNZ
August 10th, 2012, 04:48 AM
No doubt while educating them about the evils of vendor lock-in ;)

Sharing and conducting business can be done without MSFT file types. It's propaganda to claim that they can't.

As a somewhat non sequitur, I maybe wrong but Curiosity landed on Mars without MSFT.

BTW, I'm not saying that any of the open "office suites" come anywhere close to MS Office. They have miles to go. But then they got "freedom" in just the last couple of years.

Yes you can share basic documents, however as soon as formatting is applied, no.

I don't lecture associates on the "evils of vendor lock in"

Hagar Delest
August 10th, 2012, 11:01 PM
Nevertheless, LibreOffice will continue developing and improving OOXML support. They are realistic too. It cannot really be an instant feature. OOXML is a format that has been designed to be hard to implement correctly. The whole point of the OOXML format is to make interoperability difficult.
This is what I don't really understand. We all know that MS will always make it hard for others to implement OOXML. So what is the point since it's a dead end anyway?

Now, on the opposite, if you have good OOXML filters, how can you promote ODF? It would reinforce OOXML and that's all. It would have major consequences since it could lead to the failure of ODF and all attempts to make a true open format the choice of institutions. No one would then believe in such open formats.

Primefalcon
August 15th, 2012, 05:57 AM
Looks like the issue is over as of Office 13.... Microsoft will offer 100% ODT formats!

Moose
August 15th, 2012, 06:04 AM
I have used both and they are very similar. But if push comes to shove i like openoffice better. Libre Office is very confusing. I don't know if im helping your question but i just wanted to pitch in my opinion.

-Anarchy

Hagar Delest
August 15th, 2012, 09:34 PM
Looks like the issue is over as of Office 13.... Microsoft will offer 100% ODT formats!
Well, let's see how good the support will be.

Some links for the record:
- MS Office 2007 to support ODF in SP2 (http://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=13334)
- Improved OOXML support for LibreOffice and OpenOffice (http://forum.openoffice.org/en/forum/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=55189)

kurt18947
August 16th, 2012, 01:04 AM
Looks like the issue is over as of Office 13.... Microsoft will offer 100% ODT formats!

Open and Save? That would be something! I can't imagine MicroSoft being truly interoperable without some pretty serious incentives/threats. It's been gospel that "We set the Standard" and it's been worth $billions.

Hagar Delest
August 17th, 2012, 08:42 PM
Yes, open and save (but it already does, MS is talking about ODF 1.2). Someone in the 2nd thread I've linked mentioned the push of Google that could lobby govt so that they don't give MS the monopoly of the file format.

arkanabar
August 26th, 2012, 01:24 AM
I use .rtf with LibreOffice for interoperability. Everyone at school is locked into MS Office, and none of them have complained about .rtf files generated by LO.

Abiword 2.9.2 is complete and utter crap, crashing when I try to access menu items, not able to read files written with Abiword 2.8, not able to see rulers, on and on and on. I liked the version in Natty Narwahl, better than LO Writer, but Abiword has been unusable in Pangolin.