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offgridguy
August 3rd, 2012, 01:23 AM
Most of the threads that are started on most subjects seem to deal mostly on the
technical aspect of computers; ie: how to solve this problem or rectify something else. All of which is very helpful and appreciated, however i wanted to address
something of a more philosophical nature, namely ubuntu versus windows.
As an operating system i like my ubuntu however i am disappointed in that i was
expecting and hoping that ubuntu could replace windows entirely. Unfortunately this
has not proven to be the case, mainly because of the lack of good third party software
that is compatible with a linux system. My experience using wine or crossover to run
windows applications has been frustrating and time wasting. I simply see no alternative but to use a dual boot system, using windows to run windows specific apps. and ubuntu
for everything else. I appreciate your thoughts on this subject.

pqwoerituytrueiwoq
August 3rd, 2012, 01:27 AM
have you tried using http://alternativeto.net/
have you tried using virtualbox (apt:virtualbox-ose)

QIII
August 3rd, 2012, 01:30 AM
Use what works.

Linux is not a replacement for Windows. It is an alternative.

A choice among many alternatives is a good thing.

You can make a pie from both cherries and apples. You can eat either as the mood strikes you.

TheMTtakeover
August 3rd, 2012, 01:31 AM
Most of the threads that are started on most subjects seem to deal mostly on the
technical aspect of computers; ie: how to solve this problem or rectify something else. All of which is very helpful and appreciated, however i wanted to address
something of a more philosophical nature, namely ubuntu versus windows.
As an operating system i like my ubuntu however i am disappointed in that i was
expecting and hoping that ubuntu could replace windows entirely. Unfortunately this
has not proven to be the case, mainly because of the lack of good third party software
that is compatible with a linux system. My experience using wine or crossover to run
windows applications has been frustrating and time wasting. I simply see no alternative but to use a dual boot system, using windows to run windows specific apps. and ubuntu
for everything else. I appreciate your thoughts on this subject.

I agree with you the biggest flaw in Linux is not Linux but the lack of third-party software that is necessary.

Edit: I shouldn't say flaw because it isn't one. What I meant to say was the biggest thing holding a lot of people back from using just Linux is software that isn't available.

not found
August 3rd, 2012, 01:31 AM
Thread moved to Recurring Discussions.


404

offgridguy
August 3rd, 2012, 01:54 AM
Thank you for the response, most people who write software and produce it want to be paid for their
work and who can blame them, therefore they would naturally target the market of most users,
namely windows. As a result there is a lot of windows specific software available, not without cost
of course but definitely available. To address a point in another reply, the computer people i talked
to when i was considering ubuntu really led me to believe that it would replace windows, in my case
this is simply not a reality. To reiterate i do like ubuntu as an operating system much better than
windows but it is not a complete alternative.

TheMTtakeover
August 3rd, 2012, 02:00 AM
Thank you for the response, most people who write software and produce it want to be paid for their
work and who can blame them, therefore they would naturally target the market of most users,
namely windows. As a result there is a lot of windows specific software available, not without cost
of course but definitely available. To address a point in another reply, the computer people i talked
to when i was considering ubuntu really led me to believe that it would replace windows, in my case
this is simply not a reality. To reiterate i do like ubuntu as an operating system much better than
windows but it is not a complete alternative.

I agree with you, and I really think one of things that would help Linux is if all the distro combined and made a whole distro just called Linux. I know a lot of people wouldn't like that though because most people come to Linux come because they want a choice of what to use.

This would make it easier for developers, they would only worry about compatibility of one Linux distro. Also with all of our resources combined I think a lot more progress could be made.
I would love to see this happen I know a lot of people would be against it though.

Also with Linux (not everyone) but a lot of people want their software for free and it's hard to make everything free when everything in real life costs money.

offgridguy
August 3rd, 2012, 02:19 AM
Good point. I for one don't expect anything for free and do pay for good software that i can use
and enjoy using. In the past month i have downloaded and tried a lot of the available software,
most of it free, frankly if people had to pay for it they would probably not use it as it is simply not
worth buying. Probably no computer user enjoys the monopoly that microsoft holds over this
business and would like to see other options, however in the near future i don't see things changing
much.

3Miro
August 3rd, 2012, 02:37 AM
I can play all the games that I care about with wine, I don't need Windows for anything. I have used VirtualBox in the past and it is also a good tool to help you avoid the need to dual-boot.

The lack of 3d party apps is entirely due to the low popularity on the home desktop. There are plenty of excellent 3d party apps for Linux available for all platforms and distributions, however, they usually hit areas where Linux is popular i.e. professional visual effects (Maya) or high end engineering math (MATLAB). Simple home computer apps are usually not available, although many games work well under wine, if you spend some time tweaking.

PS: the philosophy about Linux and GNU is not that things should be free as in cheap, the philosophy is about free as in freedom, know the difference. Also, it doesn't prevent companies from developing proprietary payed products like MATLAB.

QIII
August 3rd, 2012, 02:49 AM
I agree with you, and I really think one of things that would help Linux is if all the distro combined and made a whole distro just called Linux.

Yeah. Choice and freedom are not important. Ganging up and competing with Windows is.

3Miro
August 3rd, 2012, 02:59 AM
Yeah. Choice and freedom are not important. Ganging up and competing with Windows is.

I completely agree. Both Apple and MS are using strategies to lock people with their software, things like proprietary standards and a centralized authority to make all decisions on development and direction. Right now, in Linux, there is way too much freedom and nobody is penalized for switching away or doing something wacky. One of the worst examples is how easy distributions have made it to dual-boot, neither MS nor Apple would tolerate or even acknowledge another OS, but Linux works with other OS and other filesystems right out of the box. Linux would be far more competitive if it were to put an end to such nonsense.

I think Linux needs more Sarc, as it is the second best type of asm, and Linux surely has plenty of Org floating around.

neodirtchief
August 3rd, 2012, 03:37 AM
Ubuntu and other distros give people an alternative to Windows. In some industries and applications it can be a replacement. It's not a one size fits all and with any luck it never will be. If that was to happen the freedom to choose would be lost. As far as free software, that's why the donate tab is on most developers sites. They don't expect to get what most pay for software to run on Windows but to at least get enough to keep going.

jedispork
August 3rd, 2012, 03:32 PM
I'm trying to make things easier on myself by using linux friendly devices. I was concerned about software for my harmony remote but then I discovered some of the urc remotes that were cheaper, better layout, and easily programmed without a pc. I also try to stay away from apple products and use linux friendly mp3 players, printers, etc. We even have steam coming to ubuntu. Its helpful to plan your purchases and check for linux compatibility. There are a few programs on windows that I still use but its not very often and will eventually get away from windows completely.

I like having a choice. You can choose what kind of desktop you want, not have to mess with silly activations, free o/s upgrades.

zombifier25
August 3rd, 2012, 03:41 PM
Being a matter of opinion (and also with this being an Ubuntu forum) I don't think you'll get a very detailed answer.

mike acker
August 3rd, 2012, 08:30 PM
this is naturally a very interesting topic. right now i am trying to get my brain to understand why msft needs ASLR and DEP. these are obfuscations, not protections.

i have to go back into my _Rootkit Arsenal_ book for more study but I think i'm starting to "get it"

the $64 question of course is : can an application alter the host o/s programming?

a browser example is the place to start. a web document usually contains a lot of java script but it can contain other code -- which is interpreted by the browser effectively making the web document into an executable file

as the browser effects the requests presented by the web document what can be modified?

can one web page snoop on another? or are web pages interpreted using separate memory keys?

can the script add to or alter the browser's code? I think a lot of bank trojans work this way although some are actual root kits.

and so we are getting into some serious questions about storage protection. and asking Why is ASLR needed? all it does is prevent the hacker from referencing fixed/know memory addresses. he's going to find them, one way or another; the resources have to be protected or they will be hacked.

back to my homework.

3rdalbum
August 4th, 2012, 11:25 AM
What programs do you need? I'm surprised nobody has asked you this. Linux can certainly replace Windows, for quite a lot of people; but there are certain use-cases that still require Windows - for example, when you already have custom-written Windows software for something, or you need to use pro-level applications that are not available on Linux and don't run in Wine.



the $64 question of course is : can an application alter the host o/s programming?

a browser example is the place to start. a web document usually contains a lot of java script but it can contain other code -- which is interpreted by the browser effectively making the web document into an executable file

as the browser effects the requests presented by the web document what can be modified?

can one web page snoop on another? or are web pages interpreted using separate memory keys?

can the script add to or alter the browser's code? I think a lot of bank trojans work this way although some are actual root kits.

and so we are getting into some serious questions about storage protection. and asking Why is ASLR needed? all it does is prevent the hacker from referencing fixed/know memory addresses. he's going to find them, one way or another; the resources have to be protected or they will be hacked.

I think this is out of the scope of the thread, but web browsers are written to not allow one web page to be aware of anything happening outside its own space, or outside the web browser. A skillful attacker may find a vulnerability that allows snooping to occur, and this does happen from time-to-time. However the browsers attempt to prevent this from occurring, and as far as I know Chrome/Chromium is the best designed to prevent such "cross-site" exploits.

Who writes "bank trojans" anymore? Phishing seems to work well enough and exploits a single vulnerability that doesn't always get patched: The person in the chair.

Manipulating the browser code in RAM is possible, with security holes in the browser. Manipulating the browser code on disk is a lot rarer as you'd have to break through the browser and also break a security feature in the operating system - pretty tough. VERY tough.

I suggest you find some books on computer security; firstly because you'd probably really enjoy them, and secondly they'll give a lot better information than most people on Ubuntu Forums will be able to give :-)

offgridguy
September 7th, 2012, 02:52 AM
Thanks for the help. In my case I have 2 windows specific programs that I run, one is pentax acdsee,
not available on linux and I haven't found a good substitute yet that is. The other is Band in a box
also windows or mac specific only. These are the only apps. for which I need windows, but I can't do
it without windows. I may give wine another try but I found it to be very frustrating and was not very
successful at getting it to run anything. I would love to do without windows entirely but that
doesn't seem possible, in my case anyway. Interesting enough there seem to be two strong opinions
here, one that says use both or whatever works, the other that says linux/ubuntu only period.
I like my ubuntu and use it for everything I can.