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tnob
June 6th, 2012, 01:31 PM
Greetings all,

A recent internet trawl brought up that rarest of beasts indeed: a real shop, with staff ready to assist, selling and servicing laptops and desktops with Linux pre-installed exclusively. To visit it, however, you'll have to travel to Holland.

A bit of a downside, I readily admit. What I found truly jaw-dropping, however, is that nowhere in the UK - the capital included - something similar seems to exist. I should know: I tried for it for two days solid.

Coming closest is a company called Novatech, with stores in Reading, Cardiff, Bristol and Portsmouth. It was mentioned in a forum discussion dating from July 2009, so I immediately sent an email asking if Linux pre-installed is still part of their package. Furthermore, I heard of Dell offering the same, at some point in the past but I understand this service has been ceased for some time. And that's all there is, really.

If you know of an outlet more or less equivalent to the one mentioned in the beginning, please tell me.

tnob

wyliecoyoteuk
June 6th, 2012, 02:53 PM
Haven't you noticed that real shops selling computers of any kind (as opposed to supermarkets) seem to be a dying breed?
Even PCWorld are on the edge of bankruptcy (and they're more like a supermarket than a real shop anyway).

In fact thinking about it, real shops of any kind seem to be dying out. The large chains have skinned the margin so thin that the smaller shops have gone out of business, and now they're eating themselves.

Our only local grocer apart from Tesco and the Co-op doesn't even have a shop, we order over the internet and he delivers for 50p. A bit like having a personal shopper in the wholesale market, but he actually looks after the produce properly, unlike the stock-slingers in Tescos. we can also get stuff that the stupormarkets won't stock :)

tnob
June 6th, 2012, 04:29 PM
That's all fine and dandy - but not everybody is born a whizz kid. Some people need a face to speak to and a bit of hands-on assistance, from time to time.

I, for one, am still relatively new to Ubuntu. And although I hold the Ubuntu forums in high esteem and did benefit from some of the advice given, a conversation with another human being in front of me - a friend, or, indeed, a shop assistant - in order to identify a problem or to show how best to solve it, may be rather more practical, in some situations. What's wrong with that?

And as to online financial transactions: blind faith in IT technology is foolish, I think. I know from painful personal experience that even the tightest security will have some ruptures...

cottfcfan
June 6th, 2012, 05:07 PM
http://shop.linuxemporium.co.uk/

wyliecoyoteuk
June 6th, 2012, 08:57 PM
That's all fine and dandy - but not everybody is born a whizz kid. Some people need a face to speak to and a bit of hands-on assistance, from time to time.

I, for one, am still relatively new to Ubuntu. And although I hold the Ubuntu forums in high esteem and did benefit from some of the advice given, a conversation with another human being in front of me - a friend, or, indeed, a shop assistant - in order to identify a problem or to show how best to solve it, may be rather more practical, in some situations. What's wrong with that?

And as to online financial transactions: blind faith in IT technology is foolish, I think. I know from painful personal experience that even the tightest security will have some ruptures...

I wasn't criticising, merely sympathising.
I miss the little shops too, in fact until our local shops either closed or were taken over by the chains, I used them. Trouble is,not enough other people did.
I still try to use local tradesmen, as in the grocer and the organic butcher whose meat he sells as well, they are local, even though they function on the internet. Maybe they are the future of local trading, sad to say.

As for online security, the only times so far I have been ripped off on cards were in a shop and a petrol station.

Have you considered contacting your local LUG? whereabouts do you live?

Zill
June 6th, 2012, 11:37 PM
That's all fine and dandy - but not everybody is born a whizz kid. Some people need a face to speak to and a bit of hands-on assistance, from time to time...
As a "non whizz kid" I understand the problem. Unfortunately, the problem is that, with profit margins on PC hardware so low, it must be very difficult for a dealer to make money selling systems with a free operating system when they have the additional cost of configuring the OS as well!

...I, for one, am still relatively new to Ubuntu. And although I hold the Ubuntu forums in high esteem and did benefit from some of the advice given, a conversation with another human being in front of me - a friend, or, indeed, a shop assistant - in order to identify a problem or to show how best to solve it, may be rather more practical, in some situations. What's wrong with that?...
Again, I sympathise. However, as you will know if you have ever tried to obtain Windows support, you are unlikely to receive much useful help from a dealer. The chances of finding a local shop assistant who is really up-to-speed with the latest Linux releases is even lower.

I suggest you just buy a system without an OS (don't pay the Windows tax!) and then simply install the Linux OS of your choice. This is very straightforward, particularly with a "clean" machine. You can then obtain as much help as you need in configuring it the way you want it from either these forums or a local Linux user group.

I suggest you take a look at DinoPC (http://www.dinopc.com/) as they supply PCs without an OS for a reasonable price. (And no, I don't have any connection other than as a satisfied customer!)

holycow131415
June 7th, 2012, 12:58 AM
https://www.system76.com/

a tad expensive though imo.

tnob
June 8th, 2012, 09:52 AM
Have you considered contacting your local LUG? whereabouts do you live?

Now I understand you better, wyliecoyoteuk, sorry for being a little huffy the first time around.

As I said before, I'm still relatively new to Linux. I haven't heard of LUG before, so please enlighten me. I'm living in London, by the way.

tnob

Zill
June 8th, 2012, 10:39 AM
Linux user group
(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_user_group)
UK Linux User Groups (http://lug.org.uk/)

jim_24601
June 8th, 2012, 10:59 AM
http://ubuntu-uk.org/

http://gllug.org.uk/

As for the Linux Emporium, I tried to buy a laptop from them, but they didn't seem very interested in selling me one. They had to be chased at every turn, and eventually told me it would be another 3 weeks' wait for the model I wanted. By which time I needed it yesterday, so I ended up ordering from PC World. Say what you like about PC World (and I do), they were at least prepared to sell me the computer I wanted. Of course, it came with Windows, but it never actually booted it. The second I got it home it had Linux installed on it and the Windows sticker peeled off and replaced by an Ubuntu one.

Of course, the above is only my experience. It would probably have been much better were I not extremely hard to please ;)

tnob
June 8th, 2012, 01:52 PM
[QUOTE=jim_24601;12008782]
As for the Linux Emporium, I tried to buy a laptop from them, but they didn't seem very interested in selling me one. They had to be chased at every turn, and eventually told me it would be another 3 weeks' wait for the model I wanted. By which time I needed it yesterday, so I ended up ordering from PC World. Say what you like about PC World (and I do), they were at least prepared to sell me the computer I wanted. Of course, it came with Windows, but it never actually booted it. The second I got it home it had Linux installed on it and the Windows sticker peeled off and replaced by an Ubuntu one.

Did you do the Linux installation yourself? Since I'm relatively new to Linux, I have been trying for some place (preferably in London) I can physically visit if help is required.

tnob

jim_24601
June 9th, 2012, 11:59 AM
Yes, but it was really just a matter of putting the live CD in, clicking about a bit to make sure things basically work, and choosing "install". It's a thinkpad, they're very well supported.

oldos2er
June 9th, 2012, 05:06 PM
Moved to Community Cafe.

jockyburns
June 9th, 2012, 06:59 PM
http://ubuntu-uk.org/

http://gllug.org.uk/

As for the Linux Emporium, I tried to buy a laptop from them, but they didn't seem very interested in selling me one. They had to be chased at every turn, and eventually told me it would be another 3 weeks' wait for the model I wanted. By which time I needed it yesterday, so I ended up ordering from PC World. Say what you like about PC World (and I do), they were at least prepared to sell me the computer I wanted. Of course, it came with Windows, but it never actually booted it. The second I got it home it had Linux installed on it and the Windows sticker peeled off and replaced by an Ubuntu one.

Of course, the above is only my experience. It would probably have been much better were I not extremely hard to please ;)

Jim, I do hope you've applied to have a refund from your computer manufacturer for the Win software, (you've paid for) but not used.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windows_refund

mips
June 9th, 2012, 07:39 PM
That's all fine and dandy - but not everybody is born a whizz kid. Some people need a face to speak to and a bit of hands-on assistance, from time to time.


The reality of the situation is that those kinds of shops are dying out. These days the support you get from a PC retailer is dismal and the sales staff are generally clueless.

I got told some stupid story about core 2 due processors from a well know PC shop the other day which was just hysterical.

Locally people in the know register themselves as dealers with several distributors and build build their own systems. Those not in the know just get sold silicone snake oil, fortunately with our local consumer protection act I've advised many a person to return what they got scammed into and passed them onto better deals. The general public is ignorant and vulnerable to advertising & marketing as technology is simply not their forte in life and you can't expect them to be.

If you build your own system or get someone else reputable to do it for you you don't have to worry about getting a OS you don't want or ask them to make sure it's good for Linux. Generally these days you can build any Linux system as long as you avoid ATI and you're a gamer.

I can only wish that we had Newegg over here.

KiwiNZ
June 9th, 2012, 08:46 PM
The reality of the situation is that those kinds of shops are dying out. These days the support you get from a PC retailer is dismal and the sales staff are generally clueless.

I got told some stupid story about core 2 due processors from a well know PC shop the other day which was just hysterical.

Locally people in the know register themselves as dealers with several distributors and build build their own systems. Those not in the know just get sold silicone snake oil, fortunately with our local consumer protection act I've advised many a person to return what they got scammed into and passed them onto better deals. The general public is ignorant and vulnerable to advertising & marketing as technology is simply not their forte in life and you can't expect them to be.

If you build your own system or get someone else reputable to do it for you you don't have to worry about getting a OS you don't want or ask them to make sure it's good for Linux. Generally these days you can build any Linux system as long as you avoid ATI and you're a gamer.

I can only wish that we had Newegg over here.

Or the 'general public' don't see a PC as an idol and are just buying a plug and use appliance. It does not make them ignorant.

jockyburns
June 9th, 2012, 11:37 PM
Or the 'general public' don't see a PC as an idol and are just buying a plug and use appliance. It does not make them ignorant.


Hear hear Kiwi. My G/F has just bought a new desktop, and for her the most important thing is that it works when she switches it on. (must admit I have much the same attitude when it comes to cars)
My G/F knows naught about OS's. Just as long as a computer has a web browser and email client, she's happy. I think a majority of home computer users fall into this same category. She can use my computer (running Ubuntu) and has said in the past that she prefers using mine as she finds it much simpler to use than hers with Win7 (probably because the desktop is less cluttered)

drawkcab
June 10th, 2012, 06:33 AM
That's all fine and dandy - but not everybody is born a whizz kid

Whiz kids aren't born, they're made. So become a whiz kid.

Why? Because you can't trust sales staff and you certainly can't trust the tech staff at most stores anyway.

Familiarize yourself with available resources, learn how to research and then just start doing everything yourself.

Bazon
June 10th, 2012, 09:17 AM
I have no problem installing a linux system, but for political reasons I'd prefer to buy a product without that useless microsoft os.

Does anyone know, where to get a ultrabook with linux and german keyboard layout? (Yes, I need the Umlaute for my job... ...and , too.)

Erik1984
June 10th, 2012, 10:42 AM
Have a link to that Dutch shop?

rjbl
June 10th, 2012, 12:10 PM
Greetings all,

A recent internet trawl brought up that rarest of beasts indeed: a real shop, with staff ready to assist, selling and servicing laptops and desktops with Linux pre-installed exclusively. To visit it, however, you'll have to travel to Holland.

A bit of a downside, I readily admit. What I found truly jaw-dropping, however, is that nowhere in the UK - the capital included - something similar seems to exist. I should know: I tried for it for two days solid.

Coming closest is a company called Novatech, with stores in Reading, Cardiff, Bristol and Portsmouth. It was mentioned in a forum discussion dating from July 2009, so I immediately sent an email asking if Linux pre-installed is still part of their package. Furthermore, I heard of Dell offering the same, at some point in the past but I understand this service has been ceased for some time. And that's all there is, really.

If you know of an outlet more or less equivalent to the one mentioned in the beginning, please tell me.

tnob

You shouldn't have any problems with Novatech. I've bought my last six boxes from them. All bare of any OS. Two the six were mobo/processor bundles; two were barebones systems and two were pre-built. You can, of course, get any GNU/Linux for free off the 'net. Ubuntu is actually the easiest system install / configuration I have ever come across (since 1985).

Hope this helps
rjbl

pe7er
June 13th, 2012, 06:21 PM
Have a link to that Dutch shop?
yeah, I am interested as well...

I know a shop in Amsterdam that sells an Ubuntu PC: http://www.ikbenstil.nl/Ubuntu-Computer:::314.html
But that shop isn't selling exclusively computers with Linux...