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Senior_Buckethead
June 6th, 2012, 10:20 AM
How long do you wait for a post to get answered before abandoning it? Sorry, I couldn't think of a more appropriate word for a post thats just not getting any replies.
Are there guidelines for such posts?

Please let me know.

wilee-nilee
June 6th, 2012, 10:23 AM
How long do you wait for a post to get answered before abandoning it. sorry, I couldn't think of a more appropriate word for a post thats just not getting any replies.
Are there guidelines for such posts?

Please let me know.

Maximum 24 hrs then taken off the subscription list.

Senior_Buckethead
June 6th, 2012, 10:33 AM
Thanks for that.

So do you then ask the same question again, link to the old post in the new one, or give up on an answer and look elsewhere?

3v3rgr33n
June 6th, 2012, 10:35 AM
Thanks for that.

So do you then ask the same question again, link to the old post in the new one, or give up on an answer and look elsewhere?

Good question!

howefield
June 6th, 2012, 10:39 AM
Thanks for that.

So do you then ask the same question again, link to the old post in the new one, or give up on an answer and look elsewhere?

Feel free to "bump" the original once in 24 hours if no response..

Senior_Buckethead
June 6th, 2012, 10:39 AM
Its so frustrating posting a, well, to me, really serious question and then waiting, and waiting, and waiting....
I mean Ive read the sticky about making your post as concise and detailed as possible, and I try, really I do, to be as accurate as possible. But it seems that some posts just dont get answered, and then there are others that like thousands of people read.

I dont know, maybe my posts arent "interesting" enough.

wilee-nilee
June 6th, 2012, 10:41 AM
Thanks for that.

So do you then ask the same question again, link to the old post in the new one, or give up on an answer and look elsewhere?

I have about 12 threads with over 8300 beans, I don't think any of those threads hardly are asking a question for help.

I started on the forum with basic knowledge, and use the web for answers I needed, I basically help others here.

This is my favourite though.
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1338144

Senior_Buckethead
June 6th, 2012, 10:48 AM
I have about 12 threads with over 8300 beans, I don't think any of those threads hardly are asking a question for help
Yeah, wouldnt come here if I didnt need any help, to me there wouldnt be any point.
Ive tried answering the odd question, but usually shot down by those who know more than me. So I just come here to get questions answered. And I have ALOT of questions.
I mean I can't compete with sys admins and the like, a really, why would you want to. Each to their own.

wilee-nilee
June 6th, 2012, 10:58 AM
Yeah, wouldnt come here if I didnt need any help, to me there wouldnt be any point.
Ive tried answering the odd question, but usually shot down by those who know more than me. So I just come here to get questions answered. And I have ALOT of questions.
I mean you can't compete with sys admins and the like, a really, why would you want to. each to their own.

I have to much free time on my hands. It took a lot of lurking to learn the very little I know.

I'm not sure how many admins are on this site, just some of us who have specific interests and can help in that area, and while doing that, learn about other areas. The IRC is where I see admins though.

I'm just an armchair user and just took an interest to the computer on a return to college at middle age, never really had used computers before. So I got my unrelated double degrees, and learned a bit about computers at the same time.

coffeecat
June 6th, 2012, 10:59 AM
So do you then ask the same question again, link to the old post in the new one, or give up on an answer and look elsewhere?

As howefield said, please do bump your thread not more than once in 24 hours if you get no response. However, posting the same question in a new thread is not permitted (http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php?page=policy):


Do not cross post, or post the same thing in multiple locations.

This is because cross posting dilutes community effort when help is given in more than one thread, and this seriously annoys members who try to help.

One proviso. If you feel that your question is best placed in a forum other than the one you originally posted in, simply ask a member of staff to move it for you. Use the http://ubuntuforums.org/images/rebrand/buttons/report.gif button in your post to send a request to the staff area. Don't worry that it says "abuse". This is its primary function but we are happy for thread move requests to be communicated this way. So long as there are not too many of them! :wink:

Senior_Buckethead
June 6th, 2012, 11:06 AM
I think its a female trait more than a male trait. Anyway, what Im trying to say is that I dont care how it works, I just want it to work.
You know, I come here so I can learn how to make things work. I know you know lots more than me, thats not up for question. If Linux was a car, I'd get in, turn the key and expect it to work, and most of the time, not all, it does work.

I think perhaps its a Windows thing, you can know how to use windows without the foggiest how it works. And have a great time being that way.

Hate me if you will for being that way, but I am.

Senior_Buckethead
June 6th, 2012, 11:13 AM
As howefield said, please do bump your thread not more than once in 24 hours if you get no response. However, posting the same question in a new thread is not permitted (http://ubuntuforums.org/index.php?page=policy):
But if I bump it and bump it and bump it, it just makes ME look like the idiot, and that, is wrong.

jmore9
June 6th, 2012, 11:32 AM
A lot of users pass through this and other forums , and a lot of them may not know antyhing about what you are asking , but read the post. Sometimes the really strange stuff will have to wait until someone who knows about it reads it.

And sometimes your question will never get answered , just the way of life.

howefield
June 6th, 2012, 11:33 AM
But if I bump it and bump it and bump it, it just makes ME look like the idiot, and that, is wrong.

No it doesn't, it merely serves to push your post back to the top of the queue where it may be seen by someone who can help.

There are many alternative ways to get the help and knowledge you desire.

https://help.ubuntu.com/
http://www.ubuntu.com/support

wilee-nilee
June 6th, 2012, 11:35 AM
I think its a female trait more than a male trait. Anyway, what Im trying to say is that I dont care how it works, I just want it to work.
You know, I come here so I can learn how to make things work. I know you know lots more than me, thats not up for question. If Linux was a car, I'd get in, turn the key and expect it to work, and most of the time, not all, it does work.

I think perhaps its a Windows thing, you can know how to use windows without the foggiest how it works. And have a great time being that way.

Hate me if you will for being that way, but I am.

Traits are a socially taught norms, and many are quite erroneous.

I say follow your bliss in the end. ;)

Senior_Buckethead
June 6th, 2012, 11:42 AM
No it doesn't, it merely serves to push your post back to the top of the queue where it may be seen by someone who can help.

Oh my, this arguments gone full circle.

"Windows assumes you know nothing about what your doing, Linux assumes you know everything"

Have a lovely day/night.

wyliecoyoteuk
June 6th, 2012, 12:02 PM
I think that the title is really importaant.
I drop in now and then, but I usually just glance at the RSS feed. If I see something interesting, i will read it to see if I can help.

Senior_Buckethead
June 6th, 2012, 12:04 PM
Thanks for that.

vasa1
June 6th, 2012, 12:23 PM
...
And sometimes your question will never get answered , just the way of life.
Over at askubuntu.com, there's at least the consolation that those of us who ask questions that are thoroughly ignored get awarded a tumbleweed badge. I got one :D
(I suspect the badge-awarding process is automated, but a badge is a badge even if we don't need them (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stinking_badges)!)

Senior_Buckethead
June 6th, 2012, 12:29 PM
Oh I am SO going to want one of those!

philinux
June 6th, 2012, 01:26 PM
But if I bump it and bump it and bump it, it just makes ME look like the idiot, and that, is wrong.

Not at all. Also don't forget that maybe no one knows the answer to your problem. It does happen.

forrestcupp
June 6th, 2012, 01:46 PM
You have to keep in mind that the forum isn't professional, paid help by Canonical. We're not employees here. All the people here are just users like you who have received help from other users, and now they're hanging out here to give back from their experiences and help others. What that means is that since we're not the creators of Ubuntu and Linux, the only way we can help is based on our experiences. Since we're all pretty much amateurs and not paid support, there are going to be questions that no one has experience with.

Your best bet is to use your "bumps" judiciously. Different people hang out here at different times of the day. There may be someone who has experience with your problem, but they are here at a different time of day than when you post. So sometimes it's a good idea to bump your thread at different times of day for that reason. Just don't do it more than once in 24 hours. Also, if you're worried about looking ignorant for continual bumping, just be creative with what you say in your bump posts.

Like you were already told, it's against the rules for the same person to have multiple threads about the same problem. But as far as I know, it is ok for you to ask the same question on Ask Ubuntu that you have a thread for here. It wouldn't hurt to have it out there where different people might be able to help.

wilee-nilee
June 6th, 2012, 06:35 PM
"Windows assumes you know nothing about what your doing, Linux assumes you know everything"

The longer you compare these the more problems and frustrations you will have.

Let me give you an example not all that abstract. I am a trained musician, I started off playing classical music, but later on switched to being a jazz musician primarily. What I learned as a classical musician, technique, the ability to read music, intonation, and listening to the other musicians while playing is fully applicable to my jazz studies, but in different way of expression.

In classical music I play the notes as written basically, in jazz I have the freedom to interpret these notes and improvise around them. In jazz I can mess with the pitch in the form of expressing myself, in classical music I cannot. In jazz I listen to the other musicians but actually respond to differently, I am not just listening to see if I am in the right place, but actually reacting to it. In jazz I'm expected to have memorized the music, reading is frowned upon in many areas here, in classical music unless I am a soloist I read the music.

Giving yourself time to understand is basically what’s up here. If you rely on a projected ideal rather then what is really happening you will have a very hard time, this actually applies to all parts of your life really.

Personally with computers I started on open source, but I realize that all operating systems have their differentials that in the end make none better then the other. They all have their needs at place and time and what they are used for.

If you want a OS to be just plug and play then be sure to use it as such, and if you step outside that, expect problems, that if approached correctly you will learn from.

Your analogy of the key and the car is a great example of this. Everything works fine this way until a problem comes along (name your problem here). You take it to someone who fixes it, you realize that wow I could have done that my self. A good example of this would be the battery losing connection, and all you need to do to fix it, is to clean the connection, takes about 3 minutes to do. Rather then all the time for a mechanic to do it, and the cost, which might have included a tow....etc.

forrestcupp
June 6th, 2012, 09:23 PM
In jazz I can mess with the pitch in the form of expressing myself, in classical music I cannot.

You can do whatever you want. My grandma plays a boogie woogie version of Flight of the Bumblebee. :)

wilee-nilee
June 6th, 2012, 09:28 PM
You can do whatever you want. My grandma plays a boogie woogie version of Flight of the Bumblebee. :)

Depends on the context yes, he wont be playing that in front of a crowd expecting the standard version though.

I would like to hear it really. :)

Sounds like my kinda gal. ;)

Senior_Buckethead
June 6th, 2012, 09:59 PM
You have to keep in mind that the forum isn't professional, paid help by Canonical. We're not employees here. All the people here are just users like you who have received help from other users, and now they're hanging out here to give back from their experiences and help others. What that means is that since we're not the creators of Ubuntu and Linux, the only way we can help is based on our experiences. Since we're all pretty much amateurs and not paid support, there are going to be questions that no one has experience with.

Never expected paid support, and I am really, really grateful for the help that I have received. I don't know how some have extrapolated that a question about how long I should wait before posting a question again becomes one of me being ungrateful.
And insofar as comparing Windows with Linux, well thats just what novices do.

And like I had as a signature earlier, when you do have a bug to report about some software that doesn't work properly, or at all, and you report the bug via. launchpad or whatever, then the wording of the bug report makes it seems like its your fault the software doesn't work. I don't care personally, I just report it.
But I can only imagine that bugs and the time wasted in reporting them would turn a lot of people off.

cariboo
June 7th, 2012, 01:01 AM
You don't have to stick with the Forum or Askubuntu to get your questions answered, there are plenty of other Linux resources available. Unfortunately Ubuntu is the 100 Ton gorilla of the Linux world, and it usually comes up first when using Google to find an answer to a problem. Give some of the other links a try, as there are plenty of smart people out there that have already solved almost any problem you will run into.

Senior_Buckethead
June 7th, 2012, 01:58 AM
I'm amazed when I do google a problem, the number of times a post from this forum gets the top result. The number of problems that go through the forum must be enormous.

I wonder if someone had done a Ph.D dissertation on it "problem solving in forums"? would make for an interesting read.

forrestcupp
June 7th, 2012, 02:14 AM
Never expected paid support, and I am really, really grateful for the help that I have received. I don't know how some have extrapolated that a question about how long I should wait before posting a question again becomes one of me being ungrateful.No, it was the following post you made that brought on that conversation.


Its so frustrating posting a, well, to me, really serious question and then waiting, and waiting, and waiting....
I mean Ive read the sticky about making your post as concise and detailed as possible, and I try, really I do, to be as accurate as possible. But it seems that some posts just dont get answered, and then there are others that like thousands of people read.

I dont know, maybe my posts arent "interesting" enough.
We were just pointing out that some threads get answered and others don't because people help with what they know. If I see threads that are obviously something I don't know about, I don't waste my time reading them. It's not that I don't want that person to get help; it's just that I don't have experience with every type of problem.

vasa1
June 7th, 2012, 02:17 AM
..., and you report the bug via. launchpad or whatever, then the wording of the bug report makes it seems like its your fault the software doesn't work. ...
That has not been my experience for the one bug I reported. (Turns out it was a duplicate, but that's another matter.)

Senior_Buckethead
June 7th, 2012, 02:34 AM
I dont expect that every person with knowledge should answer every question, that would be ludicrous, and just fantasy.

I just cant understand why some posts attract thousands of views and pages and pages of replies, while others, some of which (atleast to me) dont seem very complex, get none.
I can't for the life of me figure out why this is.

Perhaps the answer is that there is no answer. Perhaps thats the way it is.

vasa1
June 7th, 2012, 03:01 AM
...
I just cant understand why some posts attract thousands of views and pages and pages of replies, while others, some of which (atleast to me) dont seem very complex, get none.
I can't for the life of me figure out why this is.
...
It's pretty simple.
If someone's question is solved, it's solved. End of matter. Fortunately, there doesn't seem to be the habit of people overthanking which may lead to pages and pages of replies.
If a question is of an argumentative type with no real answer, like "who is the best footballer, ever?", that thread will run and run and run and run ... You get the point.

forrestcupp
June 7th, 2012, 01:29 PM
I dont expect that every person with knowledge should answer every question, that would be ludicrous, and just fantasy.

I just cant understand why some posts attract thousands of views and pages and pages of replies, while others, some of which (atleast to me) dont seem very complex, get none.
I can't for the life of me figure out why this is.

Perhaps the answer is that there is no answer. Perhaps thats the way it is.

If you hang around long enough, you'll start to notice that the threads that get a lot of answers are the questions that have already been answered a thousand times. Some things that don't seem complex are really more complex than they seem. Especially if no one on at the time has experience with that.

In Absolute Beginners and General Help, threads can move down the line into oblivion pretty quickly if it's not something that everyone already knows the answer to. The best thing you can possibly do is follow my previous advice and bump the thread at different times of day when you have different pools of people helping.

wyliecoyoteuk
June 7th, 2012, 02:05 PM
The sheer volume of posts makes one person monitoring impossible.
The rules of chance also apply, as do time zones.
Consider a post made at 12 noon in the UK, in a busy period, the post will spend an hour or less on the RSS feed.
In the USA, that could be any time between 2AM and 7AM, in Australia, between 9:30PM and 10PM.
Then add in the number of people reading it that do not have English as their first language.

So maybe you get really high hit counts if you post when the USA is awake, for example.:)

jonathonblake
June 8th, 2012, 02:44 AM
I wonder if someone had done a Ph.D dissertation on it "problem solving in forums"?

Back in the late 1990s, there was a thesis (Master's Level) on responses to questions asked on different types of outlets:

UseNet;
Mailing Lists;
Web Forums;
IRC;


I also read a follow up study done in the 2003 - 2007 period.

The only things I remember from them are:

Right answers are far less common than answers;
The audience is more important than the medium;


A different study I came across, compared paid level 1 phone support with wikis, web forums and mailing lists. The conclusions:

If Level 1 phone support does not have a wiki, less than 30% of the problems/issues are correctly handled on the first call;
If Level 1 phone support does have a wiki, then making that wiki available to the general public, will reduce support calls by 70%;


Unfortunately, I don't remember the names, or authors, of any of these studies. :(

jonathon

Senior_Buckethead
June 8th, 2012, 03:45 AM
Thanks Jonathon thats a really interesting post.

especially about phone support that does or doesn't have wiki's and the difference.

Timing of posts, i agree thats really important, when I ask a question here, in New Zealand, people in the USA are tucked up in bed, and its early morning in the UK.

Sometimes get answers by other Kiwi's, but that depends on who's logged in.

jonathonblake
June 8th, 2012, 05:46 PM
especially about phone support that does or doesn't have wiki's and the difference.

It shouldn't surprise anybody who has worked in call center.
Nor should it surprise anybody who worked as a sysadmin.

The issue, as always, is having current, accurate information at hand.


Verizon, for example, currently offers around 50 mobile devices. Between five and ten devices are dropped from retail sales each quarter, with about that many new devices added each quarter. Customers use phones that were dropped from retail sales a decade ago. Guestimating, that is 500 devices, or too many manuals to have in one's cubicle. With a Wiki, one can easilly search for the specific mobile device, and specific issues, with solutions, alongside updates, corrections, and the like, when the Verizon rep is helping the customer.

There are two points of failure when using wikis:

The customer service representative does not utilize the wiki;
Nobody updates the wiki;


One of the major problems with wikis, is data organization. Or, more commonly, the lack of organization.

By way of example, the bugtracker used by OpenOffice.org had a very steep learning curve. So steep, that non-techies couldn't find similar bugs to the one they had, much less file a bug report. The official OOo wiki reflected the same developer-centric approach. It works for developers, but Joe Public would never have thought to look in the UI subsection, for information about Chinese character styles, to find out how to fix an issue with medieval English ligatures. Nor would your typical call center customer support person.

Hierarchical organization works when there is a natural hierarchy: for example, mobile devices. It does not work when there is no natural hierarchy: for example, a single word processing program.

Sorting is a slightly different issue.

Alphabetical;
First added;
Hybrid;
Last updated;
Last used;
Most frequently requested;


If the wiki utilizes a good search algorithm, that supports both Boolean expressions and Regex, then how the data is sorted is irrelevant. If it doesn't utilize a good search algorithm, then data retrieval depends entirely upon how the data is sorted --- the optimal sort appears to a hybrid, with the most used 10% being listed first, sorted by last used, with the rest being listed alphabetically.

jonathon

vasa1
June 8th, 2012, 05:57 PM
...
There are two points of failure when using wikis:

The customer service representative does not utilize the wiki;
Nobody updates the wiki;

...jonathon

Nice post! BTW, on updating wikis, here's Jorge Castro -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nto7bdqxicI-